January 10, 2025 • 19 mins
Join us as we explore a pivotal issue affecting many communities today—homelessness and public space management—alongside Chief Anthony Sizemore in this edition of the Cape CopCast "Chief's Chat."
Hosts Lisa Greenberg and Officer Mercedes Simonds talk about the intricacies of Cape Coral's new proposed ordinance that seeks to manage public spaces by prohibiting outdoor camping, a topic often linked to homelessness. We shed light on how this measure, born from House Bill 1365, is not an anti-homeless law but a means to ensure constitutionality in maintaining public order. As we draw insights from a recent US Supreme Court decision on a similar ordinance in Grants Pass, Oregon, we promise you'll leave with a clearer understanding of the balance between legal enforcement and compassionate outreach.
In this spirited conversation, we also uncover the critical role specialized officers play in supporting individuals without homes, focusing on connecting them to essential services through comprehensive training. We discuss the challenges of enforcing such ordinances while emphasizing that the primary aim is care and support, not just enforcement. By addressing the visible aspects of homelessness and recognizing its persistent nature due to global economic conditions and human psychology, we stress the need for both immediate action and long-term strategies. Tune in for a nuanced discussion that navigates the complexities of homelessness and the efforts made to tackle it for the benefit of the entire community.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome back to another episode of the Cape Cop
cast Chiefs chat edition.
Happy Friday everyone.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I'm Lisa Greenberg and I'm Officer Mercedes Simons.
Together we make up the PublicAffairs Office.
We have the chief once again,and I think today we were going
to try to talk about a newordinance violation we're
putting into play in the city ofCape Coral.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Yes, that would be the prohibitionition on Outdoor
Camping is what it's called.
That's the official title is aProhibition on Outdoor Camping,
and where that comes from is astate house bill House Bill 1365
, that came out of Tallahassee.
The house bill itself is not alaw or an enforceable.
(00:48):
This is the statute that we'reusing to enforce or enact a
prohibition on on municipalcamping.
What it is is a directive to tocounties and cities that you
have to create an ordinance thathas enforceability penalties,
otherwise you as themunicipality or the county will
(01:09):
be in trouble.
So it's kind ofconversationally or coffee shop
talk, referred to as DeSantis'anti-homeless law.
It's not what it is.
It's actually a House bill thatdirects cities and counties to
create legislation.
That's twofold Number one, aprohibition on outdoor camping
(01:29):
and ensuring that there is ahealth and wellness or welfare
continuum of care component intoit.
And we can talk about what thecontinuum of care is.
But that is what is thebackstory on the ordinance that
was introduced on Wednesdayevening at the City of Cape
(01:51):
Coral's council meeting thatthey do an introduction to an
ordinance, that's a publicnotice, that in two weeks
they're going to do a publichearing on it and either thumbs
up or thumbs down on theordinance, and that's what it's
about.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
So how do they come up with?
How exactly to word theordinance?
Who sits down to put everythinginto play and decide how things
should be worded and written?
Speaker 3 (02:16):
The city attorney's office and within the city
attorney's office we at thepolice department have a police
legal advisor who is an attorneythat works for the city
attorney's office assigned to us.
But let me back up where itcomes from, where the language
comes from.
There's a US Supreme Courtdecision that is very new and it
is from a city in Oregon calledGrants Pass and the case was
(02:40):
called the Grants Pass decision.
So the city in Oregon created alaw that prohibited outdoor
camping, or you can't havehomeless camps on the sidewalk
or in public areas andeverything that you see in some
of these major cities that makeyou scratch your head Like how
the heck can that happen?
Well, there really wasn't amechanism to prohibit that.
(03:02):
So this city in Grants Pass,oregon, said we're going to do
it.
So they did it.
It got challenged, it went tolocal court, it went to circuit
court, it went all the way up tothe United States Supreme Court
and, without boring you withtoo many of the details, the
argument against the law thatsays the law is unconst,
constitutional says that ahomeless person is a class of
(03:25):
people and you can'tdiscriminate against a class of
people.
The argument for the law wasthat being homeless is not a
class, it is an action, and alldifferent classes of people can
choose that action or not.
Choose that action not gettinginto anybody's economic
circumstances or mental healthconditions that would get you
(03:46):
there.
But being homeless is not aclass, it is an action, and the
US Supreme Court went with that,which means that enacting a
prohibition on camping law isnot discriminatory towards a
class of people.
It targets an action that'scommitted by people, which is a
really rough way to say that thelaw stands.
(04:07):
So you are allowed, as a countyor municipality or government
body, to enact laws andordinances that prohibit large
camps of homeless people onsidewalks and in public property
.
You always have had the abilityas a private landowner, to
permit or prohibit behavior onyour property.
(04:28):
And let's localize it to CapeCoral.
So you look at the downtownCape area, the CRA or the
entertainment district.
All of the private businessesin that urban area have the
ability and they either have orthey soon will, if they choose
to sign a letter with us thatgives the police department the
(04:51):
authority, whether they'represent or not, to enforce
trespass on their privateproperty.
The gap in the circuit was theability.
That fine, I won't be on theback parking lot of business X
with my tents and my bag chairsand drink during the day and lay
around.
That's prohibited, I know that.
(05:12):
But I can go right on publicproperty and you can't do a
thing about it Sidewalks, rightof ways, public parking lots,
anything like that and up untilgrants pass, you couldn't do
anything about that other thansuggest you shouldn't be here.
Can we help you, can we get youservices, and we'll get into
(05:33):
what that means.
But there really wasn't anyteeth in the law, and people who
willfully choose to live alifestyle of being homeless know
that and they can exploit that.
And it put us in a position toeither ignore it, perceived to
be ignoring it, allow it or youcould violate somebody's
(05:54):
constitutional protectedfreedoms to be able to exist
right, and there never has been.
Nor does Grants Pass or theprohibition on outdoor camping
outlaw homelessness orcriminalize homelessness.
It does not do that.
What it does is it prohibitsyou from setting up residency on
(06:16):
public land.
So it's a needle that needs tobe threaded.
So there's what we've done, howwe got here.
But then moving forward, Ithink is probably what people
want to know, because there'spassion on both sides of this
issue where, if you're on oneside, you're like what do you
mean?
There's another side of theissue.
Yes, there is another side ofthe issue.
(06:37):
So the two sides of the issuefor homelessness are here in
Cape Coral and also nationallyare people that are advocates
for human beings and for helpingthem and providing blankets and
food and comfort items, socks,water, great humanitarian things
(06:57):
.
And then they can't imaginethat there's somebody on the
other side who says theyshouldn't be here, they need to
be removed immediately, noquestions asked, get them out
and they can't understand whyeverybody isn't on their side of
the issue.
And then in the middle, youhave reality, doability if
(07:19):
that's even a word and thenlegality, constitutionality.
That's where we live.
So what we have done, and whatwe will always do, is
participate in a program calledHOT Team H-O-T, housing,
outreach and Treatment.
(07:39):
They're all action words right,it's not homeless outreach team
that some people think HOT Teamis's.
It's housing, outreach andtreatment, and those are.
That's what our officers uh,deputies from the lee county
sheriff's office, officers fromfmpd, members of lee health, the
lee county human and veteranservices, non-governmental
organizations or ngos like stmatthew's House, and all of
(08:03):
these people come togetherinstead of working in silos.
It's called the continuum ofcare, and our role police, law
enforcement's role in thecontinuum of care is to make
contact with people that areexperiencing homelessness people
on the street and engage them.
And we get trained on how toapproach people homeless
(08:27):
veterans, homeless families,homeless with mental health
conditions, substance abuseissues.
There's different ways to talkto people and engage them and
let them know we're here for you, to provide you a direction.
We're not going to show up andarrest you for being homeless
Right, that is not.
(08:51):
That's not a humane thing to do,it's not a legal thing to do
and it's just not what we do.
Our first engagement, then andnow, is going to be how can we
help you?
I just need services.
I need someplace where I cantake a shower.
I don't have my driver'slicense I lost it, but I have
one or I can't find my socialsecurity card or my DD-214 if
you're a veteran.
There are things I need to getso I can get a job and kind of
(09:12):
get on the path.
Some people might needtransitional housing, some
people might need substanceabuse treatment.
Some people might need anynumber of different social
services within the continuum ofcare, and our job is to serve
as a conduit to get you there.
We're not going to get you thenew driver's license.
We're not going to teach younew job skills.
We're not going to provide youwith a shower.
(09:33):
We will provide you a place toget all of those things if you
choose right, and that's the bigthing.
So therein lies the issue.
If you want the help, the firstand foremost plan of attack is
for us to get you into thecontinuum of care, to break the
cycle and get you where you needto be.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
And I think the important thing here is that
that's not anything new.
We're not just now offeringcontinuum of care.
We've had a team in place to goout, interact with people, to
get to know whoever's homelessin our community and offer them
these resources.
That's not anything new thatwe're bringing to the table.
That's where we've always stood.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
20 years we've been doing that.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Right.
I don't think people were aware, or a lot of them were aware,
that we have officers who arededicated to doing just that,
and we're not just focused onenforcing this new ordinance
when it comes to that point.
We also have officers who arededicated to helping people who
are experiencing homelessness.
That's right.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
And the training for the specialized officers is very
niche, very involved.
We know specifically probablywho to contact at Human Veterans
Services to get you where youneed to be.
Contact at the DMV.
You know all the differentthings.
Regular patrol officers knowthat we have these services and
(10:50):
they can reach out forassistance to get you there.
They can give you a ride therethemselves, but they don't have
the.
They know about it enough to doit, but they're not experts in
it.
But we do have experts in it tohelp.
We also do regional activitieswhere Fort Myers, lee County,
all of the NGOs will come andmeet with our homeless people,
(11:11):
take an inventory of who theyare and what they need.
How can we help you?
So we have that part of it.
Then you have the other partwhere people say I don't want
help, I like what I'm doing, andthere's many reasons for that.
Some of it is mental healthissues, some of it they really
don't want to be part of thesystem, or the system and the
(11:36):
continuum of care has arequirement that you are clean
and sober and don't partake inviolence.
And some people don't want togive up what they're doing or
they can't right.
It's either a choice, orthey're a prisoner to it.
Either way, you have to abideby certain rules, to be in
transitional housing or to be ina triage center.
(11:57):
And if you're going to continueto abuse drugs or alcohol,
you're going to be removed.
To abuse drugs or alcohol,you're going to be removed.
If you get into violentconfrontations by just the
confrontation itself, driven bymental health issues or driven
by a combination of mentalhealth and substance abuse.
But you become a, you're afighter, you're out and you're
back on the street.
So you have people who don'twant to help, can't really get
(12:19):
the help because of theirlifestyle or have just willfully
chosen to be that way.
You have a constitutional rightto live on the street.
What this new ordinance will do,if it's voted in on the 22nd,
is going to prohibit camping,sleeping, storing all of the
(12:39):
camping gear, your bag, chairs,your cart, your stuff.
So you can't be on privateproperty collecting.
And then, if you're moved fromthe private property by trespass
or refuse to go and getarrested.
But if you, I'll just go to thecity property.
This completes that circuit.
You cannot do that on cityproperty.
(12:59):
You're allowed to be homeless.
You're allowed to make thatchoice.
We want to help you.
We want to deliver you into thecontinuum of care, to get you
services.
But if you choose to be homeless, it's going to be very
difficult to do that andnavigate the law.
And if you violate the law, thefirst thing will be can we get
(13:20):
you help?
No, I don't want help.
I want to do this.
Well, you can't do that.
You could be homeless, but youcan't accumulate all of your
stuff.
You can't lay out on thesidewalk.
You have to move and thenhopefully they will move.
If they don't, they can betrespassed.
If they refuse to leave afterthey're trespassed, it's just
like any other thing trespassingsituation.
(13:42):
There's a criminal statute fortrespass after warning and they
can be subject to arrest.
Arrest is not the first actionthat we take, but it is
certainly on the table.
And then if you have repeatviolators where you know
Mercedes, we've told you, we'vebeen out here three times this
week.
(14:02):
We've even given you a writtentrespass warning and you're back
, you're going to end up gettingarrested.
So you might be a as soon as weshow up and see you arrest.
That would be the situation.
But if you're new to the area,you haven't encountered us
before.
We're not jumping out of thecar, running up and arresting
you because you look quoteunquote homeless.
(14:23):
Just the conversation that we'rehaving, it's super nuanced,
there's a lot of pitfalls,there's a lot of opportunity for
people, for our officers, to beoutside of the Constitution.
So training is very important.
So if this ordinance goes intoeffect, our legal team, our
police legal advisor, will workwith our training bureau to
(14:43):
craft training that is easy tounderstand, easy to interpret,
easy to enact, so our officersknow what they're doing and go
out there and address the issuemultifaceted.
Number one priority is thecontinuum of care.
Number two is to ensure thatall of our private business
(15:04):
partners are on board with themission of having trespass
letters on file, making surethat all of our officers know
the complexities of the grants,passed, decision and how it
translates down to Cape Coraland then actually go out and do
the work.
There's a lot to it.
Will that ordinance effectivelysolve the homeless issue?
(15:25):
No, it will not.
We are a large city We'vetalked about it before Eighth
largest city, third biggeststate in the country.
If it's out there, it's in here.
Homelessness is out there,homelessness is in here.
It will continue.
It's a global economiccondition.
It's a function of humanpsychology.
(15:47):
So homelessness has been herefor a long time.
It will continue to be here,but what this will do is give us
another tool to be able to help, because there's both sides of
the issue.
There's human beings that arein crisis, that need help, don't
know they need help, need help,want help and we can get them
help.
And then others who want tolive about their life without
(16:07):
seeing blight or being afraid orbeing a victim of a crime
because somebody was not all,but some homeless people will
drink alcohol, get into fights,create an uncomfortable
situation.
So that's one of thedifficulties that you have in a
free society with density isthat you run into these types of
issues.
But I believe that thislegislation will absolutely help
(16:30):
.
It will help close a loopholethat has been there.
Will it solve the overarchingmacro issue of homelessness in
the United States andspecifically Cape Coral?
100% no.
But will it give us the toolsand the ability to make it
better for everybody's homelessor not?
Yes, I think it will.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Yeah, and I know it's a touchy subject.
So I appreciate you coming onand kind of clarifying and going
a little deeper so that peoplewho maybe have heard things
about this but not the fullpicture or have questions can
get those answers by listeningto this podcast.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Sure, and it really depends on your commute to work
or to Publix or whatever you doin your life.
There's people that arelistening, that are like what
are you talking about?
Speaker 1 (17:13):
What homeless Right.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Because if you don't happen to go by certain areas,
then you don't know.
And then there's some that ridetheir bike in this particular
area or walk in a particulararea, that see it every day, or
see a camp and go yeah, it'srampant, it's everywhere.
It really depends on where youstand, depends on where you sit.
We have a good collaborativerelationship with our elected
(17:35):
officials, with city management.
We as the police department arein contact with our
contemporaries, with our peers.
Our legal team is up to speed,up to the minute on national and
local and state legislation, tomake sure that Kid Coral's on
the forefront.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah, I think it's great because it lets us do our
job.
It's not saying that everybodygets arrested.
No constitutional rights aregoing to be violated with the
ordinance.
It just kind of lets us.
It gives us options anddifferent tools to be able to
help them.
It's not trying to make it asuncomfortable as possible
(18:10):
without options, but there areoptions there for you to take
and it almost gives moreincentive to take those options
and to take the help.
And I think you could argue ina lot of cases that it is mental
health and alcoholism andthings like that and those are
revolving issues.
Those are not things that arejust going to get better with
them being out homeless in thecommunity.
(18:32):
Those are things that are goingto get better in treatment, in
facilities and with thoseresources that we have to offer
Right.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
That's the number one goal.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Absolutely Anything else you can think of, Chief.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
I think that's a pretty heavy topic for this week
.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Yeah, absolutely so.
Thank you so much for joiningus today.
We appreciate you listening orwatching, and we will see you
next time on the Chief's Chat.
Take care.
Welcome back to another episode of the Cape Cop
cast Chiefs chat edition.
Happy Friday everyone.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I'm Lisa Greenberg and I'm Officer Mercedes Simons.
Together we make up the PublicAffairs Office.
We have the chief once again,and I think today we were going
to try to talk about a newordinance violation we're
putting into play in the city ofCape Coral.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Yes, that would be the prohibitionition on Outdoor
Camping is what it's called.
That's the official title is aProhibition on Outdoor Camping,
and where that comes from is astate house bill House Bill 1365
, that came out of Tallahassee.
The house bill itself is not alaw or an enforceable.
(00:48):
This is the statute that we'reusing to enforce or enact a
prohibition on on municipalcamping.
What it is is a directive to tocounties and cities that you
have to create an ordinance thathas enforceability penalties,
otherwise you as themunicipality or the county will
(01:09):
be in trouble.
So it's kind ofconversationally or coffee shop
talk, referred to as DeSantis'anti-homeless law.
It's not what it is.
It's actually a House bill thatdirects cities and counties to
create legislation.
That's twofold Number one, aprohibition on outdoor camping
(01:29):
and ensuring that there is ahealth and wellness or welfare
continuum of care component intoit.
And we can talk about what thecontinuum of care is.
But that is what is thebackstory on the ordinance that
was introduced on Wednesdayevening at the City of Cape
(01:51):
Coral's council meeting thatthey do an introduction to an
ordinance, that's a publicnotice, that in two weeks
they're going to do a publichearing on it and either thumbs
up or thumbs down on theordinance, and that's what it's
about.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
So how do they come up with?
How exactly to word theordinance?
Who sits down to put everythinginto play and decide how things
should be worded and written?
Speaker 3 (02:16):
The city attorney's office and within the city
attorney's office we at thepolice department have a police
legal advisor who is an attorneythat works for the city
attorney's office assigned to us.
But let me back up where itcomes from, where the language
comes from.
There's a US Supreme Courtdecision that is very new and it
is from a city in Oregon calledGrants Pass and the case was
(02:40):
called the Grants Pass decision.
So the city in Oregon created alaw that prohibited outdoor
camping, or you can't havehomeless camps on the sidewalk
or in public areas andeverything that you see in some
of these major cities that makeyou scratch your head Like how
the heck can that happen?
Well, there really wasn't amechanism to prohibit that.
(03:02):
So this city in Grants Pass,oregon, said we're going to do
it.
So they did it.
It got challenged, it went tolocal court, it went to circuit
court, it went all the way up tothe United States Supreme Court
and, without boring you withtoo many of the details, the
argument against the law thatsays the law is unconst,
constitutional says that ahomeless person is a class of
(03:25):
people and you can'tdiscriminate against a class of
people.
The argument for the law wasthat being homeless is not a
class, it is an action, and alldifferent classes of people can
choose that action or not.
Choose that action not gettinginto anybody's economic
circumstances or mental healthconditions that would get you
(03:46):
there.
But being homeless is not aclass, it is an action, and the
US Supreme Court went with that,which means that enacting a
prohibition on camping law isnot discriminatory towards a
class of people.
It targets an action that'scommitted by people, which is a
really rough way to say that thelaw stands.
(04:07):
So you are allowed, as a countyor municipality or government
body, to enact laws andordinances that prohibit large
camps of homeless people onsidewalks and in public property
.
You always have had the abilityas a private landowner, to
permit or prohibit behavior onyour property.
(04:28):
And let's localize it to CapeCoral.
So you look at the downtownCape area, the CRA or the
entertainment district.
All of the private businessesin that urban area have the
ability and they either have orthey soon will, if they choose
to sign a letter with us thatgives the police department the
(04:51):
authority, whether they'represent or not, to enforce
trespass on their privateproperty.
The gap in the circuit was theability.
That fine, I won't be on theback parking lot of business X
with my tents and my bag chairsand drink during the day and lay
around.
That's prohibited, I know that.
(05:12):
But I can go right on publicproperty and you can't do a
thing about it Sidewalks, rightof ways, public parking lots,
anything like that and up untilgrants pass, you couldn't do
anything about that other thansuggest you shouldn't be here.
Can we help you, can we get youservices, and we'll get into
(05:33):
what that means.
But there really wasn't anyteeth in the law, and people who
willfully choose to live alifestyle of being homeless know
that and they can exploit that.
And it put us in a position toeither ignore it, perceived to
be ignoring it, allow it or youcould violate somebody's
(05:54):
constitutional protectedfreedoms to be able to exist
right, and there never has been.
Nor does Grants Pass or theprohibition on outdoor camping
outlaw homelessness orcriminalize homelessness.
It does not do that.
What it does is it prohibitsyou from setting up residency on
(06:16):
public land.
So it's a needle that needs tobe threaded.
So there's what we've done, howwe got here.
But then moving forward, Ithink is probably what people
want to know, because there'spassion on both sides of this
issue where, if you're on oneside, you're like what do you
mean?
There's another side of theissue.
Yes, there is another side ofthe issue.
(06:37):
So the two sides of the issuefor homelessness are here in
Cape Coral and also nationallyare people that are advocates
for human beings and for helpingthem and providing blankets and
food and comfort items, socks,water, great humanitarian things
(06:57):
.
And then they can't imaginethat there's somebody on the
other side who says theyshouldn't be here, they need to
be removed immediately, noquestions asked, get them out
and they can't understand whyeverybody isn't on their side of
the issue.
And then in the middle, youhave reality, doability if
(07:19):
that's even a word and thenlegality, constitutionality.
That's where we live.
So what we have done, and whatwe will always do, is
participate in a program calledHOT Team H-O-T, housing,
outreach and Treatment.
(07:39):
They're all action words right,it's not homeless outreach team
that some people think HOT Teamis's.
It's housing, outreach andtreatment, and those are.
That's what our officers uh,deputies from the lee county
sheriff's office, officers fromfmpd, members of lee health, the
lee county human and veteranservices, non-governmental
organizations or ngos like stmatthew's House, and all of
(08:03):
these people come togetherinstead of working in silos.
It's called the continuum ofcare, and our role police, law
enforcement's role in thecontinuum of care is to make
contact with people that areexperiencing homelessness people
on the street and engage them.
And we get trained on how toapproach people homeless
(08:27):
veterans, homeless families,homeless with mental health
conditions, substance abuseissues.
There's different ways to talkto people and engage them and
let them know we're here for you, to provide you a direction.
We're not going to show up andarrest you for being homeless
Right, that is not.
(08:51):
That's not a humane thing to do,it's not a legal thing to do
and it's just not what we do.
Our first engagement, then andnow, is going to be how can we
help you?
I just need services.
I need someplace where I cantake a shower.
I don't have my driver'slicense I lost it, but I have
one or I can't find my socialsecurity card or my DD-214 if
you're a veteran.
There are things I need to getso I can get a job and kind of
(09:12):
get on the path.
Some people might needtransitional housing, some
people might need substanceabuse treatment.
Some people might need anynumber of different social
services within the continuum ofcare, and our job is to serve
as a conduit to get you there.
We're not going to get you thenew driver's license.
We're not going to teach younew job skills.
We're not going to provide youwith a shower.
(09:33):
We will provide you a place toget all of those things if you
choose right, and that's the bigthing.
So therein lies the issue.
If you want the help, the firstand foremost plan of attack is
for us to get you into thecontinuum of care, to break the
cycle and get you where you needto be.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
And I think the important thing here is that
that's not anything new.
We're not just now offeringcontinuum of care.
We've had a team in place to goout, interact with people, to
get to know whoever's homelessin our community and offer them
these resources.
That's not anything new thatwe're bringing to the table.
That's where we've always stood.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
20 years we've been doing that.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Right.
I don't think people were aware, or a lot of them were aware,
that we have officers who arededicated to doing just that,
and we're not just focused onenforcing this new ordinance
when it comes to that point.
We also have officers who arededicated to helping people who
are experiencing homelessness.
That's right.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
And the training for the specialized officers is very
niche, very involved.
We know specifically probablywho to contact at Human Veterans
Services to get you where youneed to be.
Contact at the DMV.
You know all the differentthings.
Regular patrol officers knowthat we have these services and
(10:50):
they can reach out forassistance to get you there.
They can give you a ride therethemselves, but they don't have
the.
They know about it enough to doit, but they're not experts in
it.
But we do have experts in it tohelp.
We also do regional activitieswhere Fort Myers, lee County,
all of the NGOs will come andmeet with our homeless people,
(11:11):
take an inventory of who theyare and what they need.
How can we help you?
So we have that part of it.
Then you have the other partwhere people say I don't want
help, I like what I'm doing, andthere's many reasons for that.
Some of it is mental healthissues, some of it they really
don't want to be part of thesystem, or the system and the
(11:36):
continuum of care has arequirement that you are clean
and sober and don't partake inviolence.
And some people don't want togive up what they're doing or
they can't right.
It's either a choice, orthey're a prisoner to it.
Either way, you have to abideby certain rules, to be in
transitional housing or to be ina triage center.
(11:57):
And if you're going to continueto abuse drugs or alcohol,
you're going to be removed.
To abuse drugs or alcohol,you're going to be removed.
If you get into violentconfrontations by just the
confrontation itself, driven bymental health issues or driven
by a combination of mentalhealth and substance abuse.
But you become a, you're afighter, you're out and you're
back on the street.
So you have people who don'twant to help, can't really get
(12:19):
the help because of theirlifestyle or have just willfully
chosen to be that way.
You have a constitutional rightto live on the street.
What this new ordinance will do,if it's voted in on the 22nd,
is going to prohibit camping,sleeping, storing all of the
(12:39):
camping gear, your bag, chairs,your cart, your stuff.
So you can't be on privateproperty collecting.
And then, if you're moved fromthe private property by trespass
or refuse to go and getarrested.
But if you, I'll just go to thecity property.
This completes that circuit.
You cannot do that on cityproperty.
(12:59):
You're allowed to be homeless.
You're allowed to make thatchoice.
We want to help you.
We want to deliver you into thecontinuum of care, to get you
services.
But if you choose to be homeless, it's going to be very
difficult to do that andnavigate the law.
And if you violate the law, thefirst thing will be can we get
(13:20):
you help?
No, I don't want help.
I want to do this.
Well, you can't do that.
You could be homeless, but youcan't accumulate all of your
stuff.
You can't lay out on thesidewalk.
You have to move and thenhopefully they will move.
If they don't, they can betrespassed.
If they refuse to leave afterthey're trespassed, it's just
like any other thing trespassingsituation.
(13:42):
There's a criminal statute fortrespass after warning and they
can be subject to arrest.
Arrest is not the first actionthat we take, but it is
certainly on the table.
And then if you have repeatviolators where you know
Mercedes, we've told you, we'vebeen out here three times this
week.
(14:02):
We've even given you a writtentrespass warning and you're back
, you're going to end up gettingarrested.
So you might be a as soon as weshow up and see you arrest.
That would be the situation.
But if you're new to the area,you haven't encountered us
before.
We're not jumping out of thecar, running up and arresting
you because you look quoteunquote homeless.
(14:23):
Just the conversation that we'rehaving, it's super nuanced,
there's a lot of pitfalls,there's a lot of opportunity for
people, for our officers, to beoutside of the Constitution.
So training is very important.
So if this ordinance goes intoeffect, our legal team, our
police legal advisor, will workwith our training bureau to
(14:43):
craft training that is easy tounderstand, easy to interpret,
easy to enact, so our officersknow what they're doing and go
out there and address the issuemultifaceted.
Number one priority is thecontinuum of care.
Number two is to ensure thatall of our private business
(15:04):
partners are on board with themission of having trespass
letters on file, making surethat all of our officers know
the complexities of the grants,passed, decision and how it
translates down to Cape Coraland then actually go out and do
the work.
There's a lot to it.
Will that ordinance effectivelysolve the homeless issue?
(15:25):
No, it will not.
We are a large city We'vetalked about it before Eighth
largest city, third biggeststate in the country.
If it's out there, it's in here.
Homelessness is out there,homelessness is in here.
It will continue.
It's a global economiccondition.
It's a function of humanpsychology.
(15:47):
So homelessness has been herefor a long time.
It will continue to be here,but what this will do is give us
another tool to be able to help, because there's both sides of
the issue.
There's human beings that arein crisis, that need help, don't
know they need help, need help,want help and we can get them
help.
And then others who want tolive about their life without
(16:07):
seeing blight or being afraid orbeing a victim of a crime
because somebody was not all,but some homeless people will
drink alcohol, get into fights,create an uncomfortable
situation.
So that's one of thedifficulties that you have in a
free society with density isthat you run into these types of
issues.
But I believe that thislegislation will absolutely help
(16:30):
.
It will help close a loopholethat has been there.
Will it solve the overarchingmacro issue of homelessness in
the United States andspecifically Cape Coral?
100% no.
But will it give us the toolsand the ability to make it
better for everybody's homelessor not?
Yes, I think it will.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Yeah, and I know it's a touchy subject.
So I appreciate you coming onand kind of clarifying and going
a little deeper so that peoplewho maybe have heard things
about this but not the fullpicture or have questions can
get those answers by listeningto this podcast.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Sure, and it really depends on your commute to work
or to Publix or whatever you doin your life.
There's people that arelistening, that are like what
are you talking about?
Speaker 1 (17:13):
What homeless Right.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Because if you don't happen to go by certain areas,
then you don't know.
And then there's some that ridetheir bike in this particular
area or walk in a particulararea, that see it every day, or
see a camp and go yeah, it'srampant, it's everywhere.
It really depends on where youstand, depends on where you sit.
We have a good collaborativerelationship with our elected
(17:35):
officials, with city management.
We as the police department arein contact with our
contemporaries, with our peers.
Our legal team is up to speed,up to the minute on national and
local and state legislation, tomake sure that Kid Coral's on
the forefront.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah, I think it's great because it lets us do our
job.
It's not saying that everybodygets arrested.
No constitutional rights aregoing to be violated with the
ordinance.
It just kind of lets us.
It gives us options anddifferent tools to be able to
help them.
It's not trying to make it asuncomfortable as possible
(18:10):
without options, but there areoptions there for you to take
and it almost gives moreincentive to take those options
and to take the help.
And I think you could argue ina lot of cases that it is mental
health and alcoholism andthings like that and those are
revolving issues.
Those are not things that arejust going to get better with
them being out homeless in thecommunity.
(18:32):
Those are things that are goingto get better in treatment, in
facilities and with thoseresources that we have to offer
Right.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
That's the number one goal.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Absolutely Anything else you can think of, Chief.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
I think that's a pretty heavy topic for this week
.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Yeah, absolutely so.
Thank you so much for joiningus today.
We appreciate you listening orwatching, and we will see you
next time on the Chief's Chat.
Take care.
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