October 28, 2025 • 28 mins
When your agency grows fast, the pressure grows faster: clients, team, tech, everything scaling at once. The temptation? Add more tools, more systems, more noise. But growth without stability eventually breaks.
That’s why I sat down with Kelsi Navalta, Director of Affiliate Programs at HighLevel, the leading white-label marketing platform for agencies. Kelsi is part of a smart-idea culture, where AI tools for agencies don’t replace people, they realign them toward what really moves the business forward.
In this episode, we talk about the systems, mindset, and leadership shifts that let her scale a 22-person affiliate team serving 8,000+ affiliates without losing clarity or speed. You’ll learn how to use automation wisely, create space for human connection, and lead teams that think, decide, and grow on their own.
If you’ve felt the strain between innovation and burnout, this conversation will show you how to build sustainably, scale intentionally, and lead with wisdom in a world obsessed with “more.”
Books Mentioned
- The One Minute Manager by Ken Blanchard
Connect with Kelsi Navalta on Instagram @KelsiNavalta to learn more about her work with HighLevel’s affiliate team and the systems helping agencies grow smarter, not harder.
And if you'd like to try out HighLevel, here's a 14 day free trial. Catalytic Leadership runs on HighLevel, and I highly recommend it.
Join Dr. William Attaway on the Catalytic Leadership podcast as he shares transformative insights to help high-performance entrepreneurs and agency owners achieve Clear-Minded Focus, Calm Control, and Confidence.
- Free 30-Minute Discovery Call:
Ready to elevate your business? Book a free 30-minute discovery call with Dr. William Attaway and start your journey to success.
- Special Offer:
Get your FREE copy of Catalytic Leadership: 12 Keys to Becoming an Intentional Leader Who Makes a Difference.
Connect with Dr. William Attaway:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. William Attaway (00:00):
It is such an honor today to have Kelsey
Navalta on the podcast.
Kelsey's the director ofaffiliate programs at HighLevel,
the leading white labelmarketing platform for agencies.
Prior to High Level, she workedas an influencer and affiliate
marketer across multipleplatforms before leveraging her
experience to grow and optimizethe company's affiliate program.
(00:21):
Kelsey, I'm so glad you'rehere.
Thanks for being on the show.
Kelsi Navalta (00:24):
Yeah, absolutely.
Thank you for having me.
When I met you in Cancun atanother event, I was taken away
by the topics that you weretalking about, and I'm very
honored that you wanted to haveme here.
Dr. William Attaway (00:36):
100%.
I know you're going to add alot of value to the conversation
today.
Intro (00:43):
Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the podcast designed
to help leaders intentionallygrow and thrive.
Here is your host, author, andleadership and executive coach,
Dr.
William Attaway.
Dr. William Attawa (01:05):
Particularly around your journey and your
development as a leader.
How did you get started?
Kelsi Navalta (01:10):
Yeah, um, I don't think leadership came easy to
me as a kid.
I was always really quiet,really shy.
My parents tried to put me inpositions where I would start to
flourish in that environment.
And when I was in college, Ijoined a sorority and I ended up
really liking the recruitmentand sales aspect of things.
(01:31):
I was studying biology at thetime.
Obviously, I'm not doingbiology in my day-to-day
anymore.
But it was really that time atthe sorority that inspired me to
want to work with people moreand wanted to use my skills and
put them to good use.
And so I found high level onCraigslist and I applied.
(01:51):
Yeah, back in the day when wewere putting job listings on
Craigslist.
And today, I would like to saythat I I don't really think that
there was a singular thing thatmade me into a true leader.
It was just having great peoplesurrounding me and being
inspired to act similarly tothem, picking up here and there
(02:11):
things that resonated and thencontinuing to grow.
Dr. William Attaway (02:14):
So that's really good.
So where did you start at highlevel?
Kelsi Navalta (02:18):
Yeah, I was a creative manager when I first
started at high level on theagency side.
And then as high level createdand grew the affiliate program,
they needed somebody to stepinto that affiliate role.
So after about six months, Iswitched teams and then I've
been on the affiliate team eversince.
Dr. William Attaway (02:33):
You know, most of our listeners are going
to be very familiar with highlevel.
It's the CRM that I use for mycompany and so many of our
listeners as well.
But for those who may not know,what is high level?
Kelsi Navalta (02:44):
Yeah, high level is an all-in-one sales and
marketing tool.
For many people that may haveused it in the past, especially
since so many of your listenersare in the agency space.
It's really continued to growover the past five, six, seven
years.
And so nowadays it is AI, it'ssocial media posting, it's
Instagram DMs, it's courses.
(03:05):
It's not just the all-in-oneagency item that it was before.
It's really been able toencompass a lot of different
digital needs for a lot ofpeople in different niches.
So we're happy to continuegrowing, happy to continue
serving small businesses throughagencies.
And we're just excited to keepon adding whatever agencies
(03:27):
need.
Dr. William Attaway (03:29):
You know, that that's been something that
stood out to me.
I first met Chase at an eventwe were both speaking at.
And uh I said, yeah, so this isfor agencies.
I said, so it's not really forif you're not an agency.
And he said, Oh, no, no, no,no.
He said, This could, this couldreally help you.
And we switched over.
It took a little time tomigrate.
But moving over from ActiveCampaign and all the other tools
(03:50):
we were using uh saved usimmediately over $200 a month on
our tech stack.
So I was I was interestedalready.
I was like, okay, that that'sthat's you got my attention.
But the fact that every weekyour developer teams are rolling
out new things.
Every week they're making itbetter.
Every week, week in, week out.
I don't know any other productthat does that.
Kelsi Navalta (04:11):
Yeah, I think that the environment, like the
digital marketing environment,is just growing and evolving so
quickly that we have to continueto grow and adapt alongside the
market for all of our users.
But um you had a little phrasein there, and that's the side
that I kind of want to emphasizeis we're not just growing the
product, we also want to growstability.
(04:32):
We want to improve the productas well.
And so we have different podsof teams who focus on different
things.
Some focus on new items, somefocus on making sure that when a
software changes their APIs, welike adapt to that as quickly
as possible.
So now that high levelscontinue to grow, we're still
trying to maintain that speedwhile also now I uh focusing a
(04:55):
ton on stability.
And it's been a reallyinteresting process over the
past few years because I didn'treally think about stability
that often, but now it'sdefinitely become one of the
core things that we have to makesure we maintain.
Dr. William Attaway (05:07):
That was one of my big takeaways from the
level up summit last year.
The focus on, hey, you know, wehave been adding, adding,
adding, adding.
For the next bit, we're gonnafocus on stabilizing and making
this as strong a platform as wecan.
And I was so impressed withthat because really so much of
our culture is around more,more, more, more, more, more
features, more like andstability can go by the wayside.
(05:30):
And that really reflected amaturity and I would consider it
to be excellent leadership tosay we're gonna make sure this
is something where we'rebuilding a foundation that is
going to take the stories thatwe're going to add in the years
ahead.
And I thought that was so, sosmart.
Kelsi Navalta (05:47):
Yeah, I think that maturity is the perfect
adjective to describe what ittook to make that decision.
Because I think even likeseparate from tech, everybody
gets really excited.
It's really addicting to addsomething new to your business.
But sometimes things are justworking and you just need to let
it simmer and you need to likewalk away, go touch grass.
And so that's right.
Dr. William Attaway (06:08):
I love that.
Kelsi Navalta (06:09):
Yeah, we've been getting more people telling us
that we need to focus onstability and we completely
agree.
So now we're trying to balanceboth where it makes sense.
Dr. William Attaway (06:17):
So good.
Yeah, AI is the topic du jourin agency world, especially.
It's not going anywhere, it'snot fad.
Uh, this is here to stay.
And you have some uniqueperspectives around AI, you
know, in light of what you guysare doing, but also you as a
leader.
What can you share about whatyou have learned on this topic
and and where you see thisgoing?
Kelsi Navalta (06:38):
Yeah, I think that um when I look on my TikTok
feed, there's two opinions onAI.
It's gonna take over the worldor it's the worst thing to ever
experience.
And sometimes there's overlap,right?
Right.
But in reality, I feel like AIis both more and less than both
of those opinions.
There's been so many thingsthat AI can do that I never
(07:01):
expected could be automated.
And then there's some thingsthat I feel like are just
intuitive, but we can't figureout how to train it.
We'll put entire teams on itand it's not working.
And in a in a lot of ways, Ireally like that because AI's
been able to automate themonotonous things.
And then it's been able to giveus freedom to focus on the
(07:23):
stuff that makes businessrelationships human.
And so the way that we're we'vebeen leveraging AI in
high-level S tech is what can wedo to make it so that whoever's
working at your front deskdoesn't have to say, yes, we're
open till 5 p.m.
20 times a day.
You know, how can you make thatexperience better for the
(07:44):
customer as well?
Like they don't want to have tocall and wait for somebody to
call back just to see what yourhours are.
But then at the same time, whenthat person is actually
interested, when they arewanting to walk into the
business, how can you free upmore time for that person to
actually talk to the qualifiedcustomers?
That's the balance that we'vebeen seeing AI be able to scale
(08:06):
people's businesses to.
So it's not a replacement ofanybody, but it's more of a
realignment of what actuallymakes the business relationship
work.
Dr. William Attaway (08:17):
You know, at the at the conference we were
at, we heard Jonathan Mast talkabout AI.
And I had him on the show abouta year ago, and we talked about
this, and he said somethingI've never forgotten.
He said, AI is not gonnareplace people.
People who know how to use AIwill replace people who don't.
And I thought that is a reallygreat framing for this
conversation around replacementbecause that's a lot, there's a
(08:40):
lot of fear.
I hear this not infrequentlyfrom people who are who have
more than a little fear thatthat they are gonna be replaced.
Leading a team of 13 that youhave, you know, part of our job
as leaders is to develop thepeople that we lead, to help
them to grow and develop asindividuals and as contributors
to what we're trying toaccomplish.
(09:00):
When it comes to AI, how areyou working with them to
understand this is not asomething you should fear, but
instead something you shouldlearn to leverage?
How are you doing that?
Kelsi Navalta (09:11):
Yeah, I think that uh I feel like when you
lead a team, you always have todo it in two ways.
You have to lead the technicallogical route, and then you also
have to lead them on anemotional level as well.
Because a real leader is makingsure that they're developing as
individuals.
Dr. William Attaway (09:30):
That's right.
Kelsi Navalta (09:31):
And the reality of the situation is uh if people
are looking at their jobdescription and it can be
replaced by AI, maybe theyshould look at how they're
adding value in addition tothat.
I'm very lucky that my team hasbeen very open and receptive to
adapting to new tools so thatnone of them are in that
(09:53):
position.
But the question that I wealways have asked each other is
like, can AI replace XYZ?
How can it replace XYZ?
And it's hard sometimes toteach an old dog new tricks, but
this is where we're continuallychallenging each other.
Like, have you asked AI?
Have you tried to do it withAI?
This person did it with AI.
And we'll do things like shareTikTok, share LinkedIn posts
(10:16):
where we're seeing how peopleare continuing to adapt and
evolve to it.
And so I think that by havingan open conversation, you're
able to lead them in those ways.
But I also think that by rolemodeling it, by me showing,
like, hey, I didn't know how todo this, but here's how I'm
starting to figure it out, italso shows them that it's okay
(10:36):
to be in progress with somethingas daunting as AI for some
individual.
So we've taken kind of thatblended approach of showing
them, but also like walkingthrough it with them.
And then also if likeemotionally reassuring them,
like if your job can't bereplaced by AI, then we want
(10:56):
you.
Like you've done a great jobuntil now.
Why would why would we replaceyou?
Unless you think you arereplaceable, then why do you
think that way?
You know?
And then and then we kind ofjust have an open conversation
around it.
Dr. William Attaway (11:07):
I love that.
Do you sense fear on the partsof of team members or or others
that that they are gonna be likephased out in view of AI?
Kelsi Navalta (11:17):
No.
Even on our support team withhigh level, yeah.
Our support team is like athird of all of our hires.
And we've been implementing AIon the front end for like
beginners who usually don'tactually have technical
questions.
It's usually like, how does XYZfeature work?
And AI has just as happy of acustomer success or satisfaction
(11:40):
score as humans.
But even with that, we're stillhaving to hire, we're still
having to grow, we still need alot of humans.
And so there's a lot of areaswhere AI has been able to
simplify the process, but westill need more help and more
people on hand.
And so, no, our team is veryconfident in not just the
affiliate team, but uh the restof our teams are very confident
(12:02):
in the way that we're addingvalue.
Of course, realistically, it'sunless like people are not
checked in and stuff like that.
But we've been doing a reallygood job of tackling that.
Dr. William Attaway (12:13):
I think that speaks to your leadership
because you know, I think whenpeople feel like they are seen
and heard, they lean in.
And uh a lack of engagement,not always, but so often,
reflects a leader that is lessthan engaged with them.
You know, people don't leavejobs most often because of pay
or benefits or PTO.
They leave because they don'tfeel appreciated.
(12:35):
They don't feel seen and heard.
And I think that what you guysare building at high level is
remarkable.
Yeah, you're you're thedirector of affiliate programs,
and that is a part of high levelthat maybe a lot of our
listeners are not aware of orare not a part of.
13 team members, 8,000affiliates.
(12:55):
That's not a small number.
How do you lead that?
And what are you seeing in thatspace right now?
Kelsi Navalta (13:03):
Yeah, well, uh, to be honest, since I submitted
the form to hop on your podcast,we've grown.
So I think we're at like 22team members now.
Dr. William Attaway (13:14):
Holy cow.
Kelsi Navalta (13:15):
Yeah.
Dr. William Attaway (13:16):
That's amazing.
Kelsi Navalta (13:17):
Yeah, they're I I really enjoy our team.
Uh we're growing rapidly.
Um, but your question was howare we managing that growth?
Dr. William Attaway (13:28):
Right.
How do you, as the point leaderfor affiliate programs, like
how do you manage a team of 22,like as you as you look at this?
Because a lot of our listenersare not managing teams that size
yet.
Or if they are, there are a lotof struggles with that.
You know, 22 people who all areindividuals.
You don't lead them all thesame.
Like, how do you do that asKelsey and an incredibly growing
(13:51):
affiliate community that'slooking to you and your team?
How do you lead and managethat?
Kelsi Navalta (13:58):
Yeah.
Um, so our CEO at high level,Sean, he had a quote that said,
a smart idea is a smart idea.
Might have taken it fromsomewhere else, might have like
got it inspired.
But we use that day in and dayout on the affiliate team.
And what we mean by it is like,if there's a machine, you put
in a dollar, you get out to, I'mgonna ask you to sit at the
(14:20):
machine and stick a dollar in itevery single day.
I don't care if you spend$10,000, you got 20.
And so I think that when we dotraining, it takes a long time
to train up each team member.
But we're able to scale soquickly because we encourage and
provide resources and providereassurement and uh all that
(14:41):
jazz.
But we ask people reassurance.
We ask them, like, can you justmake the smartest decision
here?
And in reality, if somebody hasthe same goal and if they have
the same knowledge, even if theytake a different path, they
should still get to the resultthat you want.
And so what we do is wecontinually tell people and we
(15:01):
challenge them, like, can youfind the smart solution in this
scenario?
And if they don't find thesmart solution, like if they
don't find something that makessense, it either means that I
didn't equip them with all ofthe resources and the knowledge
or something's off.
They don't have the same goalsas me.
They're not fully in, they'renot fully here, like they're not
the right individual.
And so by challenging that,we've really been able to create
(15:25):
a team that can managethemselves, manage up, manage
down, manage to the side, havevery transparent conversations.
And then they're always able tochallenge anything that we put
in.
Um, I try to never lead bytenure or or title.
And if it's a smart idea, it'sa smart idea, we're just gonna
do it.
And so the team is very muchused to just coming up with
(15:50):
good, authentic ideas that willactually fix the problems.
And then um on the leadershipside, we're really good with
empowering them to do that,having a tight feedback loop and
then giving them the resourcesto go execute it.
If people are genuinely had agreat idea with the best of
intentions and it goes wrong, weclean it up with them.
But we don't say, we don't liketake the keys away from them.
(16:13):
We have them try again, youknow, like keep on going, try
again.
Like, what did you learn?
How are you gonna fix this?
And so it does take a lot oftime to train up because so many
people come from a backgroundwhere they made one mistake and
got in trouble and they gotfired.
But once we're able to coachpeople out of it, it's really
awesome to see they're able togrow faster and make many more
(16:37):
creative decisions than any oneperson would have been able to
do alone.
So that's how we've been ableto continue to grow the team.
I wouldn't be able to coach theteam without the leaders on my
team that are managers, theother director that we've got,
and the people that are leaderswithout a title that are
definitely role models andmentors that are developing
(16:58):
their leadership skills.
So that's how we've been ableto continually grow.
Dr. William Attaway (17:03):
You know, I love that that environment that
you are creating.
It's so intentional and itsounds like you protect it in a
very powerful way.
That environment where it'sokay to fail.
Too many leaders are notcreating that.
And if you are listening tothis and you are zapping people
the minute they screw up, you'remissing an opportunity because
(17:24):
you're creating a culture offear.
Kelsey, what you're creating isan environment where it's okay
to fail forward.
As long as we're movingforward, we're growing, we're
learning, it's okay.
This is an environment wherethat's it's almost expected, you
know, because it's part oflearning.
Is that something you havealways done, or is that
something you've learned duringyour time at high level?
Kelsi Navalta (17:46):
It's definitely something that I learned at my
time with high level.
Before high level, I used totry and like hide my failures.
I would try and fix it beforeanybody could catch it.
But the leadership at highlevel was very forgiving in that
they always forgave because Ialways fixed it.
And so I tried to create thatsame environment for my team
(18:07):
too.
And it's working out really,really well.
It did take a lot of timethough, because I think that,
especially in the beginning,when um, because I I very much
thought of the affiliate programas my baby.
And so when I added my firstteam members, I was freaking
out.
I was like, this is my businessand this is not going the way
that I wanted.
And I think that as a leader,you kind of have to
(18:29):
realistically look at it and youhave to have an honest
conversation with yourself.
Like, do you want to do all ofthis?
Or like, what are you willingto give away?
But when you're willing to giveit away to somebody, you have
to be willing for them to makemistakes.
Ironically, it wasn't like abusiness teaching that got that
to click.
Somebody was talking to meabout door dashing your
(18:50):
groceries.
And they were like, Well, thething is, is that when you door
dash your groceries, you have tobe okay if they don't get your
bananas just as yellow or greenas you want them.
But you have to be okay becauseyou're not going to go pick it
up yourself.
And somehow that's what made itclick for me is okay, if I hand
things off to somebody, I haveto be okay with getting a
(19:11):
slightly different result.
If I'm not okay with it, then Igotta find time to do it.
And if I can't find time to doit, then I gotta find figure out
a way to be okay with it.
Dr. William Attaway (19:19):
One of the secrets of delegation.
You know, I I heard uh a leadersay one time that if another
person on your team can dosomething 80% as well as you
would as the leader, you have todelegate that.
And man, I pushed back on thatso hard.
I was like, 80%?
That's like a C.
C work?
No, no.
They got to be at least 90%.
(19:40):
At least 95, really.
That's when I'll delegate.
But you know, the further I getinto my leadership journey, the
more I realize how true thatis.
80% is where they start.
And I've got to give them thesame opportunity to learn and
grow that I had.
If I don't give them thatopportunity, they're gonna stay
(20:00):
where they are.
That sounds like theenvironment you're creating.
Kelsi Navalta (20:04):
Thank you.
Yeah, I would give a ton ofcredit back to the team, though.
As individuals, they started atthat 80% and then they've taken
it to a place where it goesbeyond my expectations, beyond
where I had it.
And I think that a lot ofpeople give me credit, but I try
and share as much with theteam.
So if anybody is listening tothis that knows the affiliate
(20:26):
team, they are doing someamazing things.
And I really give a lot ofprops to them too.
Dr. William Attaway (20:31):
And that's great leadership.
You are doing some amazingthings.
You just paid out how much incommissions?
Kelsi Navalta (20:36):
Uh, for the first time ever, September 2025, we
paid out six million dollars incommissions to all of our
affiliates.
So that's money in the pocketsof everybody that's promoted
high level in the past.
Dr. William Attaway (20:49):
Wow.
That's remarkable.
Again, I'm not aware of anyother company that is as
generous as you guys are withthe affiliate program and what
you're building.
And how high level is growingand scaling, I think has
astounded anybody who's beenwatching the last few years.
Kelsi Navalta (21:05):
Yeah, by the time people are listening to this,
we'll probably be past um 150million in lifetime commissions.
We're on track to hit thatOctober 2025.
But at the end of the day,we'll keep doing it because we
wouldn't be where we're atwithout our affiliates.
Um there's an article called AThousand True Fans.
(21:30):
And it's talking about how toget your top customers into your
top fans.
Yes.
And what the affiliate programhas allowed us to do is it's
allowed us to convert those topfans into our top sellers as
well.
And so we don't have a salesteam, but who who better to sell
than people who genuinely likethe product that would advocate
for it, that would share it withtheir friends?
(21:52):
And that's the model that ouraffiliate program's been able to
emulate for us.
Dr. William Attaway (21:58):
That's so good.
Uh Kelsey, how do you stay ontop of your game?
How do you level up with thenew leadership skills that your
team's gonna need you to have?
I mean, you have to lead at ahigher level today than you did
a few years ago.
And that's only gonna getbigger as the team grows, as the
company grows, as the number ofaffiliates grow.
How do you stay on top of yourgame?
Kelsi Navalta (22:19):
Yeah, um, it's definitely very interesting
because I was talking to mymanager about this and I told
him I felt like I got apromotion from being a director
at a tiny company to a directorat a big company, which is
literally kind of what happenedin a lot of ways.
With the culture that we'vebuilt around a smart idea is a
smart idea, I learned so muchfrom the team daily.
They teach me how to continueto adapt to their different
(22:42):
personalities, things that areoccurring, things that they're
patterns that they're seeingwith their affiliates
constantly.
But separate from the techindustry, I love to consume not
just media.
I love to read books, I love towatch shows, I like to watch
TikToks specifically fromdifferent industries.
There's so much that I'velearned about how to create a
(23:06):
community from watching Netflixdocumentaries on K-pop groups
and cheerleaders and otherthings like that.
And you don't need to watchthose, but I think that when you
try to learn tangentially, atthe end of the day, we're all
just humans trying to improveourselves.
There's so many awesome waysthat people have continued to
improve themselves in so manydifferent industries.
(23:28):
And so just trying toconstantly be on a learning
journey is the way that we'vecontinued to adapt.
Dr. William Attaway (23:36):
Well, I think that teachable spirit is
what has brought you this farand what will take you way
farther.
You know, that willingness tolearn from anybody in any field
and any discipline, like there'salways something you can learn
if you approach it with ateachable spirit.
And I I love that in whatyou're deciding, what you're
describing there.
I think that's that issomething that I hope every one
(23:57):
of our listeners adopts fortheir own because that will make
a difference.
Kelsi Navalta (24:01):
Yeah.
It's uh it's the quote of youhave two ears and one mouth for
a reason.
Dr. William Attaway (24:06):
That's right.
Kelsi Navalta (24:07):
You know.
Yeah.
Dr. William Attaway (24:09):
So true.
So true.
Well said.
You said you like to read.
Is there a is there a book thathas made a difference in your
journey that you read andthought, man, uh I would love to
recommend this to the leaderswho are listening.
Kelsi Navalta (24:20):
Yeah, I uh there's so many books, so many
books.
But the one that I uh encouragemy team to read the most often,
and I encourage them to read itagain, is One Minute
Management.
Dr. William Attaway (24:33):
Yeah.
Kelsi Navalta (24:34):
Have you read it?
Dr. William Attaway (24:35):
I have.
That's a great book.
Kelsi Navalta (24:36):
Yeah, it's so short, yet so effective.
It is instantly actionable.
I felt like it was an easyread, but you really have to
implement the things that itsays.
But in terms of getting thingsup and running and immediately
having impact, I felt like thatwas an amazing book.
And when I see people are onthe leadership path, that's the
(24:58):
first book that I recommend thatthey read.
Dr. William Attaway (25:00):
I love that.
That's excellent.
We'll have that link in theshow notes.
Perfect.
Kelsey, uh, last question Ihave for you.
If I had the ability to snap myfingers and solve one problem
in your leadership, what wouldyou love that problem to be?
Kelsi Navalta (25:17):
Yeah, in uh my leadership, I read an article,
it was like a year and a halfago, saying that most
overachievers don't believe inthemselves.
And I thought that was reallyinteresting because it really
got people to like the reasonwhy they said most overachievers
don't believe in themselves isbecause they have to have this
(25:40):
tendency to want to proveeverybody wrong.
They want to continue to grow,they want to continue to do
that.
But what I've realized is thatalso when you teach
overachievers how to believe inthemselves, there's also this
level of gratitude where they'reable to grow because now
they're feeling confident abouteverything.
And that shine from within islike really awesome to see in
(26:02):
the team.
But I've noticed that eventhen, imposter syndromes, like
it'll keep popping up for thoseoverachievers, myself included.
And I see it with my team, andit's baffling to me because they
achieve so many things and thenthe smallest thing they'll get
hung up on.
So even with the culture thatwe have of a smart idea is a
(26:23):
smart idea, even though peopledon't get in trouble, there's
still this fear on like, am Idoing a good enough job?
And if you knew how to fixthat, the amount of things that
I feel like would be changedwithin our business, or if you
even knew how to accelerate it,it'd be amazing to see because I
think we do a great job, but II definitely want to see how we
(26:45):
could continue to improve uponthat.
Dr. William Attaway (26:47):
That's an excellent one.
And I think every leaderlistening is going to resonate
with that.
I think we all struggle atdifferent points.
And that is that is something Iwork with a lot of clients on
to help them get out of theirown way when it comes to what
they believe about themselvesand about the world around them
and about the people aroundthem.
I think it's so important thatwe do that inner work.
(27:09):
I'm with you.
I wish I wish I could snap myfingers.
That's a little longer process,but it is possible.
Yeah.
Kelsey, it it's been so great totalk with you today.
I'm so grateful for your timeand the expertise that you
brought into this conversation.
I know our listeners are gonnawant to stay connected to you
and continue to learn more fromyou and about what you're doing.
(27:30):
What's the best way for them todo that?
Kelsi Navalta (27:33):
Yeah.
If they've got Instagram,Kelsey Navalta is my tag.
Um, I made it just related tohigh level things.
So you can find me there.
And then in there, I post linksto meet with a team, chat with
me directly, all that jazz.
But that's definitely where I'dsend people first.
Dr. William Attaway (27:53):
Awesome.
We'll have that link in theshow notes.
Kelsey, thank you.
So grateful for you today.
Kelsi Navalta (27:58):
Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
It's been a blast.
It is such an honor today to have Kelsey
Navalta on the podcast.
Kelsey's the director ofaffiliate programs at HighLevel,
the leading white labelmarketing platform for agencies.
Prior to High Level, she workedas an influencer and affiliate
marketer across multipleplatforms before leveraging her
experience to grow and optimizethe company's affiliate program.
(00:21):
Kelsey, I'm so glad you'rehere.
Thanks for being on the show.
Kelsi Navalta (00:24):
Yeah, absolutely.
Thank you for having me.
When I met you in Cancun atanother event, I was taken away
by the topics that you weretalking about, and I'm very
honored that you wanted to haveme here.
Dr. William Attaway (00:36):
100%.
I know you're going to add alot of value to the conversation
today.
Intro (00:43):
Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the podcast designed
to help leaders intentionallygrow and thrive.
Here is your host, author, andleadership and executive coach,
Dr.
William Attaway.
Dr. William Attawa (01:05):
Particularly around your journey and your
development as a leader.
How did you get started?
Kelsi Navalta (01:10):
Yeah, um, I don't think leadership came easy to
me as a kid.
I was always really quiet,really shy.
My parents tried to put me inpositions where I would start to
flourish in that environment.
And when I was in college, Ijoined a sorority and I ended up
really liking the recruitmentand sales aspect of things.
(01:31):
I was studying biology at thetime.
Obviously, I'm not doingbiology in my day-to-day
anymore.
But it was really that time atthe sorority that inspired me to
want to work with people moreand wanted to use my skills and
put them to good use.
And so I found high level onCraigslist and I applied.
(01:51):
Yeah, back in the day when wewere putting job listings on
Craigslist.
And today, I would like to saythat I I don't really think that
there was a singular thing thatmade me into a true leader.
It was just having great peoplesurrounding me and being
inspired to act similarly tothem, picking up here and there
(02:11):
things that resonated and thencontinuing to grow.
Dr. William Attaway (02:14):
So that's really good.
So where did you start at highlevel?
Kelsi Navalta (02:18):
Yeah, I was a creative manager when I first
started at high level on theagency side.
And then as high level createdand grew the affiliate program,
they needed somebody to stepinto that affiliate role.
So after about six months, Iswitched teams and then I've
been on the affiliate team eversince.
Dr. William Attaway (02:33):
You know, most of our listeners are going
to be very familiar with highlevel.
It's the CRM that I use for mycompany and so many of our
listeners as well.
But for those who may not know,what is high level?
Kelsi Navalta (02:44):
Yeah, high level is an all-in-one sales and
marketing tool.
For many people that may haveused it in the past, especially
since so many of your listenersare in the agency space.
It's really continued to growover the past five, six, seven
years.
And so nowadays it is AI, it'ssocial media posting, it's
Instagram DMs, it's courses.
(03:05):
It's not just the all-in-oneagency item that it was before.
It's really been able toencompass a lot of different
digital needs for a lot ofpeople in different niches.
So we're happy to continuegrowing, happy to continue
serving small businesses throughagencies.
And we're just excited to keepon adding whatever agencies
(03:27):
need.
Dr. William Attaway (03:29):
You know, that that's been something that
stood out to me.
I first met Chase at an eventwe were both speaking at.
And uh I said, yeah, so this isfor agencies.
I said, so it's not really forif you're not an agency.
And he said, Oh, no, no, no,no.
He said, This could, this couldreally help you.
And we switched over.
It took a little time tomigrate.
But moving over from ActiveCampaign and all the other tools
(03:50):
we were using uh saved usimmediately over $200 a month on
our tech stack.
So I was I was interestedalready.
I was like, okay, that that'sthat's you got my attention.
But the fact that every weekyour developer teams are rolling
out new things.
Every week they're making itbetter.
Every week, week in, week out.
I don't know any other productthat does that.
Kelsi Navalta (04:11):
Yeah, I think that the environment, like the
digital marketing environment,is just growing and evolving so
quickly that we have to continueto grow and adapt alongside the
market for all of our users.
But um you had a little phrasein there, and that's the side
that I kind of want to emphasizeis we're not just growing the
product, we also want to growstability.
(04:32):
We want to improve the productas well.
And so we have different podsof teams who focus on different
things.
Some focus on new items, somefocus on making sure that when a
software changes their APIs, welike adapt to that as quickly
as possible.
So now that high levelscontinue to grow, we're still
trying to maintain that speedwhile also now I uh focusing a
(04:55):
ton on stability.
And it's been a reallyinteresting process over the
past few years because I didn'treally think about stability
that often, but now it'sdefinitely become one of the
core things that we have to makesure we maintain.
Dr. William Attaway (05:07):
That was one of my big takeaways from the
level up summit last year.
The focus on, hey, you know, wehave been adding, adding,
adding, adding.
For the next bit, we're gonnafocus on stabilizing and making
this as strong a platform as wecan.
And I was so impressed withthat because really so much of
our culture is around more,more, more, more, more, more
features, more like andstability can go by the wayside.
(05:30):
And that really reflected amaturity and I would consider it
to be excellent leadership tosay we're gonna make sure this
is something where we'rebuilding a foundation that is
going to take the stories thatwe're going to add in the years
ahead.
And I thought that was so, sosmart.
Kelsi Navalta (05:47):
Yeah, I think that maturity is the perfect
adjective to describe what ittook to make that decision.
Because I think even likeseparate from tech, everybody
gets really excited.
It's really addicting to addsomething new to your business.
But sometimes things are justworking and you just need to let
it simmer and you need to likewalk away, go touch grass.
And so that's right.
Dr. William Attaway (06:08):
I love that.
Kelsi Navalta (06:09):
Yeah, we've been getting more people telling us
that we need to focus onstability and we completely
agree.
So now we're trying to balanceboth where it makes sense.
Dr. William Attaway (06:17):
So good.
Yeah, AI is the topic du jourin agency world, especially.
It's not going anywhere, it'snot fad.
Uh, this is here to stay.
And you have some uniqueperspectives around AI, you
know, in light of what you guysare doing, but also you as a
leader.
What can you share about whatyou have learned on this topic
and and where you see thisgoing?
Kelsi Navalta (06:38):
Yeah, I think that um when I look on my TikTok
feed, there's two opinions onAI.
It's gonna take over the worldor it's the worst thing to ever
experience.
And sometimes there's overlap,right?
Right.
But in reality, I feel like AIis both more and less than both
of those opinions.
There's been so many thingsthat AI can do that I never
(07:01):
expected could be automated.
And then there's some thingsthat I feel like are just
intuitive, but we can't figureout how to train it.
We'll put entire teams on itand it's not working.
And in a in a lot of ways, Ireally like that because AI's
been able to automate themonotonous things.
And then it's been able to giveus freedom to focus on the
(07:23):
stuff that makes businessrelationships human.
And so the way that we're we'vebeen leveraging AI in
high-level S tech is what can wedo to make it so that whoever's
working at your front deskdoesn't have to say, yes, we're
open till 5 p.m.
20 times a day.
You know, how can you make thatexperience better for the
(07:44):
customer as well?
Like they don't want to have tocall and wait for somebody to
call back just to see what yourhours are.
But then at the same time, whenthat person is actually
interested, when they arewanting to walk into the
business, how can you free upmore time for that person to
actually talk to the qualifiedcustomers?
That's the balance that we'vebeen seeing AI be able to scale
(08:06):
people's businesses to.
So it's not a replacement ofanybody, but it's more of a
realignment of what actuallymakes the business relationship
work.
Dr. William Attaway (08:17):
You know, at the at the conference we were
at, we heard Jonathan Mast talkabout AI.
And I had him on the show abouta year ago, and we talked about
this, and he said somethingI've never forgotten.
He said, AI is not gonnareplace people.
People who know how to use AIwill replace people who don't.
And I thought that is a reallygreat framing for this
conversation around replacementbecause that's a lot, there's a
(08:40):
lot of fear.
I hear this not infrequentlyfrom people who are who have
more than a little fear thatthat they are gonna be replaced.
Leading a team of 13 that youhave, you know, part of our job
as leaders is to develop thepeople that we lead, to help
them to grow and develop asindividuals and as contributors
to what we're trying toaccomplish.
(09:00):
When it comes to AI, how areyou working with them to
understand this is not asomething you should fear, but
instead something you shouldlearn to leverage?
How are you doing that?
Kelsi Navalta (09:11):
Yeah, I think that uh I feel like when you
lead a team, you always have todo it in two ways.
You have to lead the technicallogical route, and then you also
have to lead them on anemotional level as well.
Because a real leader is makingsure that they're developing as
individuals.
Dr. William Attaway (09:30):
That's right.
Kelsi Navalta (09:31):
And the reality of the situation is uh if people
are looking at their jobdescription and it can be
replaced by AI, maybe theyshould look at how they're
adding value in addition tothat.
I'm very lucky that my team hasbeen very open and receptive to
adapting to new tools so thatnone of them are in that
(09:53):
position.
But the question that I wealways have asked each other is
like, can AI replace XYZ?
How can it replace XYZ?
And it's hard sometimes toteach an old dog new tricks, but
this is where we're continuallychallenging each other.
Like, have you asked AI?
Have you tried to do it withAI?
This person did it with AI.
And we'll do things like shareTikTok, share LinkedIn posts
(10:16):
where we're seeing how peopleare continuing to adapt and
evolve to it.
And so I think that by havingan open conversation, you're
able to lead them in those ways.
But I also think that by rolemodeling it, by me showing,
like, hey, I didn't know how todo this, but here's how I'm
starting to figure it out, italso shows them that it's okay
(10:36):
to be in progress with somethingas daunting as AI for some
individual.
So we've taken kind of thatblended approach of showing
them, but also like walkingthrough it with them.
And then also if likeemotionally reassuring them,
like if your job can't bereplaced by AI, then we want
(10:56):
you.
Like you've done a great jobuntil now.
Why would why would we replaceyou?
Unless you think you arereplaceable, then why do you
think that way?
You know?
And then and then we kind ofjust have an open conversation
around it.
Dr. William Attaway (11:07):
I love that.
Do you sense fear on the partsof of team members or or others
that that they are gonna be likephased out in view of AI?
Kelsi Navalta (11:17):
No.
Even on our support team withhigh level, yeah.
Our support team is like athird of all of our hires.
And we've been implementing AIon the front end for like
beginners who usually don'tactually have technical
questions.
It's usually like, how does XYZfeature work?
And AI has just as happy of acustomer success or satisfaction
(11:40):
score as humans.
But even with that, we're stillhaving to hire, we're still
having to grow, we still need alot of humans.
And so there's a lot of areaswhere AI has been able to
simplify the process, but westill need more help and more
people on hand.
And so, no, our team is veryconfident in not just the
affiliate team, but uh the restof our teams are very confident
(12:02):
in the way that we're addingvalue.
Of course, realistically, it'sunless like people are not
checked in and stuff like that.
But we've been doing a reallygood job of tackling that.
Dr. William Attaway (12:13):
I think that speaks to your leadership
because you know, I think whenpeople feel like they are seen
and heard, they lean in.
And uh a lack of engagement,not always, but so often,
reflects a leader that is lessthan engaged with them.
You know, people don't leavejobs most often because of pay
or benefits or PTO.
They leave because they don'tfeel appreciated.
(12:35):
They don't feel seen and heard.
And I think that what you guysare building at high level is
remarkable.
Yeah, you're you're thedirector of affiliate programs,
and that is a part of high levelthat maybe a lot of our
listeners are not aware of orare not a part of.
13 team members, 8,000affiliates.
(12:55):
That's not a small number.
How do you lead that?
And what are you seeing in thatspace right now?
Kelsi Navalta (13:03):
Yeah, well, uh, to be honest, since I submitted
the form to hop on your podcast,we've grown.
So I think we're at like 22team members now.
Dr. William Attaway (13:14):
Holy cow.
Kelsi Navalta (13:15):
Yeah.
Dr. William Attaway (13:16):
That's amazing.
Kelsi Navalta (13:17):
Yeah, they're I I really enjoy our team.
Uh we're growing rapidly.
Um, but your question was howare we managing that growth?
Dr. William Attaway (13:28):
Right.
How do you, as the point leaderfor affiliate programs, like
how do you manage a team of 22,like as you as you look at this?
Because a lot of our listenersare not managing teams that size
yet.
Or if they are, there are a lotof struggles with that.
You know, 22 people who all areindividuals.
You don't lead them all thesame.
Like, how do you do that asKelsey and an incredibly growing
(13:51):
affiliate community that'slooking to you and your team?
How do you lead and managethat?
Kelsi Navalta (13:58):
Yeah.
Um, so our CEO at high level,Sean, he had a quote that said,
a smart idea is a smart idea.
Might have taken it fromsomewhere else, might have like
got it inspired.
But we use that day in and dayout on the affiliate team.
And what we mean by it is like,if there's a machine, you put
in a dollar, you get out to, I'mgonna ask you to sit at the
(14:20):
machine and stick a dollar in itevery single day.
I don't care if you spend$10,000, you got 20.
And so I think that when we dotraining, it takes a long time
to train up each team member.
But we're able to scale soquickly because we encourage and
provide resources and providereassurement and uh all that
(14:41):
jazz.
But we ask people reassurance.
We ask them, like, can you justmake the smartest decision
here?
And in reality, if somebody hasthe same goal and if they have
the same knowledge, even if theytake a different path, they
should still get to the resultthat you want.
And so what we do is wecontinually tell people and we
(15:01):
challenge them, like, can youfind the smart solution in this
scenario?
And if they don't find thesmart solution, like if they
don't find something that makessense, it either means that I
didn't equip them with all ofthe resources and the knowledge
or something's off.
They don't have the same goalsas me.
They're not fully in, they'renot fully here, like they're not
the right individual.
And so by challenging that,we've really been able to create
(15:25):
a team that can managethemselves, manage up, manage
down, manage to the side, havevery transparent conversations.
And then they're always able tochallenge anything that we put
in.
Um, I try to never lead bytenure or or title.
And if it's a smart idea, it'sa smart idea, we're just gonna
do it.
And so the team is very muchused to just coming up with
(15:50):
good, authentic ideas that willactually fix the problems.
And then um on the leadershipside, we're really good with
empowering them to do that,having a tight feedback loop and
then giving them the resourcesto go execute it.
If people are genuinely had agreat idea with the best of
intentions and it goes wrong, weclean it up with them.
But we don't say, we don't liketake the keys away from them.
(16:13):
We have them try again, youknow, like keep on going, try
again.
Like, what did you learn?
How are you gonna fix this?
And so it does take a lot oftime to train up because so many
people come from a backgroundwhere they made one mistake and
got in trouble and they gotfired.
But once we're able to coachpeople out of it, it's really
awesome to see they're able togrow faster and make many more
(16:37):
creative decisions than any oneperson would have been able to
do alone.
So that's how we've been ableto continue to grow the team.
I wouldn't be able to coach theteam without the leaders on my
team that are managers, theother director that we've got,
and the people that are leaderswithout a title that are
definitely role models andmentors that are developing
(16:58):
their leadership skills.
So that's how we've been ableto continually grow.
Dr. William Attaway (17:03):
You know, I love that that environment that
you are creating.
It's so intentional and itsounds like you protect it in a
very powerful way.
That environment where it'sokay to fail.
Too many leaders are notcreating that.
And if you are listening tothis and you are zapping people
the minute they screw up, you'remissing an opportunity because
(17:24):
you're creating a culture offear.
Kelsey, what you're creating isan environment where it's okay
to fail forward.
As long as we're movingforward, we're growing, we're
learning, it's okay.
This is an environment wherethat's it's almost expected, you
know, because it's part oflearning.
Is that something you havealways done, or is that
something you've learned duringyour time at high level?
Kelsi Navalta (17:46):
It's definitely something that I learned at my
time with high level.
Before high level, I used totry and like hide my failures.
I would try and fix it beforeanybody could catch it.
But the leadership at highlevel was very forgiving in that
they always forgave because Ialways fixed it.
And so I tried to create thatsame environment for my team
(18:07):
too.
And it's working out really,really well.
It did take a lot of timethough, because I think that,
especially in the beginning,when um, because I I very much
thought of the affiliate programas my baby.
And so when I added my firstteam members, I was freaking
out.
I was like, this is my businessand this is not going the way
that I wanted.
And I think that as a leader,you kind of have to
(18:29):
realistically look at it and youhave to have an honest
conversation with yourself.
Like, do you want to do all ofthis?
Or like, what are you willingto give away?
But when you're willing to giveit away to somebody, you have
to be willing for them to makemistakes.
Ironically, it wasn't like abusiness teaching that got that
to click.
Somebody was talking to meabout door dashing your
(18:50):
groceries.
And they were like, Well, thething is, is that when you door
dash your groceries, you have tobe okay if they don't get your
bananas just as yellow or greenas you want them.
But you have to be okay becauseyou're not going to go pick it
up yourself.
And somehow that's what made itclick for me is okay, if I hand
things off to somebody, I haveto be okay with getting a
(19:11):
slightly different result.
If I'm not okay with it, then Igotta find time to do it.
And if I can't find time to doit, then I gotta find figure out
a way to be okay with it.
Dr. William Attaway (19:19):
One of the secrets of delegation.
You know, I I heard uh a leadersay one time that if another
person on your team can dosomething 80% as well as you
would as the leader, you have todelegate that.
And man, I pushed back on thatso hard.
I was like, 80%?
That's like a C.
C work?
No, no.
They got to be at least 90%.
(19:40):
At least 95, really.
That's when I'll delegate.
But you know, the further I getinto my leadership journey, the
more I realize how true thatis.
80% is where they start.
And I've got to give them thesame opportunity to learn and
grow that I had.
If I don't give them thatopportunity, they're gonna stay
(20:00):
where they are.
That sounds like theenvironment you're creating.
Kelsi Navalta (20:04):
Thank you.
Yeah, I would give a ton ofcredit back to the team, though.
As individuals, they started atthat 80% and then they've taken
it to a place where it goesbeyond my expectations, beyond
where I had it.
And I think that a lot ofpeople give me credit, but I try
and share as much with theteam.
So if anybody is listening tothis that knows the affiliate
(20:26):
team, they are doing someamazing things.
And I really give a lot ofprops to them too.
Dr. William Attaway (20:31):
And that's great leadership.
You are doing some amazingthings.
You just paid out how much incommissions?
Kelsi Navalta (20:36):
Uh, for the first time ever, September 2025, we
paid out six million dollars incommissions to all of our
affiliates.
So that's money in the pocketsof everybody that's promoted
high level in the past.
Dr. William Attaway (20:49):
Wow.
That's remarkable.
Again, I'm not aware of anyother company that is as
generous as you guys are withthe affiliate program and what
you're building.
And how high level is growingand scaling, I think has
astounded anybody who's beenwatching the last few years.
Kelsi Navalta (21:05):
Yeah, by the time people are listening to this,
we'll probably be past um 150million in lifetime commissions.
We're on track to hit thatOctober 2025.
But at the end of the day,we'll keep doing it because we
wouldn't be where we're atwithout our affiliates.
Um there's an article called AThousand True Fans.
(21:30):
And it's talking about how toget your top customers into your
top fans.
Yes.
And what the affiliate programhas allowed us to do is it's
allowed us to convert those topfans into our top sellers as
well.
And so we don't have a salesteam, but who who better to sell
than people who genuinely likethe product that would advocate
for it, that would share it withtheir friends?
(21:52):
And that's the model that ouraffiliate program's been able to
emulate for us.
Dr. William Attaway (21:58):
That's so good.
Uh Kelsey, how do you stay ontop of your game?
How do you level up with thenew leadership skills that your
team's gonna need you to have?
I mean, you have to lead at ahigher level today than you did
a few years ago.
And that's only gonna getbigger as the team grows, as the
company grows, as the number ofaffiliates grow.
How do you stay on top of yourgame?
Kelsi Navalta (22:19):
Yeah, um, it's definitely very interesting
because I was talking to mymanager about this and I told
him I felt like I got apromotion from being a director
at a tiny company to a directorat a big company, which is
literally kind of what happenedin a lot of ways.
With the culture that we'vebuilt around a smart idea is a
smart idea, I learned so muchfrom the team daily.
They teach me how to continueto adapt to their different
(22:42):
personalities, things that areoccurring, things that they're
patterns that they're seeingwith their affiliates
constantly.
But separate from the techindustry, I love to consume not
just media.
I love to read books, I love towatch shows, I like to watch
TikToks specifically fromdifferent industries.
There's so much that I'velearned about how to create a
(23:06):
community from watching Netflixdocumentaries on K-pop groups
and cheerleaders and otherthings like that.
And you don't need to watchthose, but I think that when you
try to learn tangentially, atthe end of the day, we're all
just humans trying to improveourselves.
There's so many awesome waysthat people have continued to
improve themselves in so manydifferent industries.
(23:28):
And so just trying toconstantly be on a learning
journey is the way that we'vecontinued to adapt.
Dr. William Attaway (23:36):
Well, I think that teachable spirit is
what has brought you this farand what will take you way
farther.
You know, that willingness tolearn from anybody in any field
and any discipline, like there'salways something you can learn
if you approach it with ateachable spirit.
And I I love that in whatyou're deciding, what you're
describing there.
I think that's that issomething that I hope every one
(23:57):
of our listeners adopts fortheir own because that will make
a difference.
Kelsi Navalta (24:01):
Yeah.
It's uh it's the quote of youhave two ears and one mouth for
a reason.
Dr. William Attaway (24:06):
That's right.
Kelsi Navalta (24:07):
You know.
Yeah.
Dr. William Attaway (24:09):
So true.
So true.
Well said.
You said you like to read.
Is there a is there a book thathas made a difference in your
journey that you read andthought, man, uh I would love to
recommend this to the leaderswho are listening.
Kelsi Navalta (24:20):
Yeah, I uh there's so many books, so many
books.
But the one that I uh encouragemy team to read the most often,
and I encourage them to read itagain, is One Minute
Management.
Dr. William Attaway (24:33):
Yeah.
Kelsi Navalta (24:34):
Have you read it?
Dr. William Attaway (24:35):
I have.
That's a great book.
Kelsi Navalta (24:36):
Yeah, it's so short, yet so effective.
It is instantly actionable.
I felt like it was an easyread, but you really have to
implement the things that itsays.
But in terms of getting thingsup and running and immediately
having impact, I felt like thatwas an amazing book.
And when I see people are onthe leadership path, that's the
(24:58):
first book that I recommend thatthey read.
Dr. William Attaway (25:00):
I love that.
That's excellent.
We'll have that link in theshow notes.
Perfect.
Kelsey, uh, last question Ihave for you.
If I had the ability to snap myfingers and solve one problem
in your leadership, what wouldyou love that problem to be?
Kelsi Navalta (25:17):
Yeah, in uh my leadership, I read an article,
it was like a year and a halfago, saying that most
overachievers don't believe inthemselves.
And I thought that was reallyinteresting because it really
got people to like the reasonwhy they said most overachievers
don't believe in themselves isbecause they have to have this
(25:40):
tendency to want to proveeverybody wrong.
They want to continue to grow,they want to continue to do
that.
But what I've realized is thatalso when you teach
overachievers how to believe inthemselves, there's also this
level of gratitude where they'reable to grow because now
they're feeling confident abouteverything.
And that shine from within islike really awesome to see in
(26:02):
the team.
But I've noticed that eventhen, imposter syndromes, like
it'll keep popping up for thoseoverachievers, myself included.
And I see it with my team, andit's baffling to me because they
achieve so many things and thenthe smallest thing they'll get
hung up on.
So even with the culture thatwe have of a smart idea is a
(26:23):
smart idea, even though peopledon't get in trouble, there's
still this fear on like, am Idoing a good enough job?
And if you knew how to fixthat, the amount of things that
I feel like would be changedwithin our business, or if you
even knew how to accelerate it,it'd be amazing to see because I
think we do a great job, but II definitely want to see how we
(26:45):
could continue to improve uponthat.
Dr. William Attaway (26:47):
That's an excellent one.
And I think every leaderlistening is going to resonate
with that.
I think we all struggle atdifferent points.
And that is that is something Iwork with a lot of clients on
to help them get out of theirown way when it comes to what
they believe about themselvesand about the world around them
and about the people aroundthem.
I think it's so important thatwe do that inner work.
(27:09):
I'm with you.
I wish I wish I could snap myfingers.
That's a little longer process,but it is possible.
Yeah.
Kelsey, it it's been so great totalk with you today.
I'm so grateful for your timeand the expertise that you
brought into this conversation.
I know our listeners are gonnawant to stay connected to you
and continue to learn more fromyou and about what you're doing.
(27:30):
What's the best way for them todo that?
Kelsi Navalta (27:33):
Yeah.
If they've got Instagram,Kelsey Navalta is my tag.
Um, I made it just related tohigh level things.
So you can find me there.
And then in there, I post linksto meet with a team, chat with
me directly, all that jazz.
But that's definitely where I'dsend people first.
Dr. William Attaway (27:53):
Awesome.
We'll have that link in theshow notes.
Kelsey, thank you.
So grateful for you today.
Kelsi Navalta (27:58):
Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
It's been a blast.
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