What happens when a growth marketer helps scale a $1B+ startup, takes three companies to successful exits, and then launches his own performance agency? In this episode of the Catalytic Leadership™ Podcast, I sit down with Chris Rodriguez, founder of iExcel, to explore how agency owners can scale operations, hire effectively, and lead with clarity in the age of AI and automation.
Chris brings nearly 25 years of marketing experience, a results-driven mindset, and a data-first leadership style to everything he touches. From leading homepage conversion experiments that generated hundreds of percent in uplift, to building a high-retention team focused on outcomes—not fluff—Chris shares a transparent, tested framework for running a high-performing agency in 2025.
Connect with Chris Rodriguez:
To learn more about iExcel and how Chris is helping agencies and startups grow through performance marketing and demand generation, visit https://iexcel.co/ or connect with him directly on LinkedIn by searching Chris Rodriguez.
🌟 Check out our podcast sponsor, Competitive Edge Business Consulting, and book your free discovery call with them today at www.CompEdgeConsulting.com 🌟
Join Dr. William Attaway on the Catalytic Leadership podcast as he shares transformative insights to help high-performance entrepreneurs and agency owners achieve Clear-Minded Focus, Calm Control, and Confidence.
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Connect with Dr. William Attaway:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. William Attaway (00:00):
I'm so excited today to have Chris
Rodriguez on the podcast.
Chris is a 20-year marketingveteran with a passion for
driving growth and tangibleresults for brands and
entrepreneurs.
He's worked with over 30startups across all tiers of
funding and sizes, generatingbrand awareness, web traffic,
(00:20):
signups, downloads and, mostimportantly, customers and
revenue.
He now runs the agency iExcel.
co, a B2B, saas-focused demandgeneration and marketing
operations agency based out ofthe greater Washington DC area.
Chris has helped grow oneunicorn, three startups to
acquisition, two startups togrowth equity and one startup to
(00:44):
the Inc 500.
He's left a positive impactwith countless companies and
colleagues, as is evident fromhis 70-plus LinkedIn
recommendations.
He's taught students, developedcourses and mentored startup
founders at companies likeTechstars, general Assembly,
springboard and Plassy.
He's been recognized by GrowthHacker TV as one of the top 200
(01:08):
experts on startup growth.
Chris, I'm so glad you're here.
Thanks for being on the show.
Chris Rodriguez (01:14):
Thank you for having me, William.
I'm excited to be here as well.
I am a big fan of what it isthat your podcast represents, so
I'm happy to share my story.
Intro/Outro (01:28):
Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the
podcast designed to help leadersintentionally grow and thrive.
Here is your host author andleadership and executive coach,
dr William Attaway.
Dr. William Attaway (01:50):
William Attaway.
I would love to begin with yousharing a little bit of your
story with our listeners, Chris,particularly around your
journey and your development asa leader.
How did you get started?
Chris Rodriguez (01:57):
Sure.
So I will fast forward throughthe early stage to say I come
from humble beginnings, brooklyn, new York City a chip on my
shoulder as a result, was veryfortunate to have a strong
educational path and found myway into, at the time, music and
(02:18):
entertainment marketing for Iwould say about 10 years or so
and had a bit of an epiphanythat I am more passionate about
the craft of marketing than I amthe actual music being marketed
, and so I found what makes metick and at that point I became
a 30-year-old rookie in techstartups Wow, and, as you could
(02:43):
imagine, all of the clichesabout tech, young bro culture,
et cetera.
And here I was a 30-year-oldrookie keeping up with the young
folks, sometimes out hustlingthe young folks, and also had
the advantage of a 10-year priorcareer in digital marketing.
Fast forward today and I am 13years past that moment.
(03:09):
So I just gave you my age there.
I'm 43.
And I have, after havingseveral stops at several tech
startups, finally fleshed out onmy own.
July 2019, in fact, I know themonth like yesterday.
Of course, I couldn't know atthe moment that that was nine
(03:30):
months before COVID hit.
So COVID actually and I saythis with the utmost of respect,
where many people andindustries were obviously
tremendously negatively affected.
Logic would tell you thatdigital marketing would have all
of the reasons to boom and Iwas fortunate enough to be on
(03:50):
that wave.
It helped really put the windin the sails of the consultancy
and I was able to gather oneparticular step function
increase client that reallyturned it up from individual
consultancy to something biggerthan me At a high level.
(04:11):
That's a 30,000-foot summary ofmy story as it stands today.
We're still humble.
I like to consider us and Ihope this isn't a crude analogy,
but I like to call us in themiddle class of agencies, which
is to say I humbly share that.
We've hit several milestonesthat maybe many peers are aiming
(04:35):
for and I'm humbled andgrateful and I'm aware of where
we are and at the same time, Ialso know that we haven't done
you know what yet.
So to that end, there's a lotof green field in front of us,
but we have a greatinfrastructure and a lot of
solidification to what it meansto be a mature agency.
Dr. William Attaway (05:03):
So I'm proud of that, almost more so
than vanity growth numbers.
So much there, Chris, I wouldlove to dive into you.
You've now got nearly a quartercentury of experience in the
digital marketing world.
You have seen this world shift,change, pivot, grow and then do
(05:31):
it all again multiple times.
With that kind of perspectiveand looking over that time
period, what do you think aresome of the things?
Where are we heading?
You know, you've seen a lot ofchange and a lot of things that
used to work don't really workanymore.
Sure, when are we going?
Chris Rodriguez (05:44):
I, uh, if, if, if I am to answer that question
with an oversimplified, you knowquick sentence or two, I would
say the game hasn't changed.
The tools change, the goalsdon't change how you get there
changes, and usuallyimprovements have to do with
(06:09):
things related to efficiency,automation, refinement of
processes.
So, though AI, as the buzzworddu jour and it's been that way
for some time, as the buzzworddu jour and it's been that way
for some time, feels like athreat, a glass half full view
is this is the new tool thatdigital marketers need to be
(06:32):
aware of understand theecosystem, understand the
strengths and weaknesses of theoptions within the ecosystem,
understand the use cases andthink more project management of
those tools than the threatthat the tool might replace or
remove something that, frankly,was most likely commoditized in
(06:57):
the first place.
So, no, wonder an automation has, in fact, solidified that
commoditization.
So, rather than being afraid ofit, we're running towards it.
I guess specifically nosurprise to anyone in 2025, but
agencies like mine are realizingthat it could be an existential
(07:20):
threat if you don't get a holdof this.
So we are leaning in withtraining, expertise, awareness
of the ecosystem, et cetera.
But just to get back to thereal point, um, you know the
thing that changes is refinement, automation, improvement,
betterment, and so to see itnegative feels like an archaic
(07:45):
view and you will be left behindif you take that approach.
Dr. William Attaway (07:51):
So tell me about .
What is your agency about?
What do you focus on?
Where do you bring the mostvalue?
Chris Rodriguez (07:57):
Sure.
Well, is, yes, started from anextension of me, Chris, but I
believe it represents a way ofbeing and I don't mean to be too
dramatic, but I personally amvery passionate about my craft,
(08:19):
uh, passionate about learningand mastering my craft,
passionate about demonstratingand exuding my craft, be it to
clients, be it to students, beit to colleagues, junior
colleagues, seasoned colleagues,and I have found that my
experience on the market.
I didn't realize this, I wasjust quote unquote, being myself
(08:43):
, but I realized that that was adifferentiator.
I mean, I'm not here to badmouth other agencies, I'm just
speaking about myself and tosay I understood that that was a
strength and I wanted to createa team and a company and a
culture that exudes the sameprinciples and has the same
(09:04):
passion.
Is excited when you solve aconversion optimization problem.
Is excited when you test fiveiterations of ad copy and see
version four was 5x performingon the rest.
That matters to me, not justbecause of vanity numbers,
because I care about this and Idon't know if I Excel is even
(09:28):
bigger from a culture standpoint.
To be like you know it'stechnically it's a sentence,
subject, verb, uh, punctuationright.
I Excel period is the logo.
So, um, I want to be surroundedby people who feel that way
about what it is that they do,and people who want to hire and
work with people who think thatway.
(09:49):
That is what I think reallyrepresents.
Now, if I'm to answer thedigital marketing part of that
answer, we are a performancemarketing and demand generation
shop.
If you asked me that questiontwo or three years ago, I would
say we are a B2B shop.
We have since had some of ourbiggest case studies on B2C.
(10:11):
The tactics are differentSmaller audiences in B2B versus
wider in B2C.
Faster funnels in B2C versuslonger funnels in B2B.
What I'll say is we can dodamage with any marketing puzzle
presented to us, and thatranges from search, be it paid
(10:36):
or, like I say, free, so organic.
That goes for social, paid orfree, Social media management,
social media automation.
I use free to say organicbecause it's very simplified and
it really illustrates the pointDo you want to spend ad budget
or do you want to not spend adbudget?
Yeah, and we try to be mastersof these respective channels on
(10:56):
both sides of that fork in theroad.
The same goes for email, not somuch paid email, but lead
generation email versus nurtureemail right, so cold versus
marketing automation.
Traditionally, and though I'mspeaking a little tongue in
cheek with the following we liketo do the boring stuff too.
So tracking analytics, you know.
(11:18):
Pixel verifications goal, youknow, QA, doing massive
spreadsheets to be able to finda diamond in the rough of an
insight and then share thosesummary insights and
recommendations, Like all ofthat is what it means to be .
Dr. William Attaway (11:38):
Who are some of your favorite clients to
work with?
Some of the people that youfeel like, man.
These are the people I got thebest results for and I enjoyed
doing it.
You're trying to get me introuble, man.
These are the people I got thebest results for and I enjoyed
doing it.
Chris Rodriguez (11:47):
You're trying to get me in trouble, william,
with that question, right?
I mean, if I mentioned three orfour or five, what about the
other, however many?
So what I'll say is I mostappreciate someone who a partner
, who is not a cop-out answer,but of the mentality that,
(12:07):
frankly, I just described.
First off, because I havelearned that, even though that
had been just an experience tohave, and you value the good
ones and note the bad ones I'mgetting to a state and I say
this humbly, but I feel likeI've earned enough to be able to
choose who it is that I and wework with 100%, and I'm looking
(12:29):
to be a little more stringentabout people who are actually
looking to value and partnerwith a company like ours.
Forget about us specifically,but if you're not of this
mindset, then it's already goingdown the wrong path.
So that is the true answer, andsure I could pick two or three
(12:49):
or four specifics that fit thatmold, but I'll say that
comfortably.
What I will also say is our mostsuccessful projects are those
where we are essentially amarketing department, or I
should say a demand gendepartment on wheels.
A little bit of strategy, alittle bit of execution, a
little bit of trustedpartnership.
(13:11):
We're working on a few channelsand the value is felt where,
whatever the rate might be ofthat arrangement, you are, as
the partner, feeling very glasshalf full about working with a
team like versus thealternative, I don't know a
full-time senior or even afull-time junior salary.
(13:32):
We play very well in acomparison against that.
Dr. William Attaway (13:38):
You know you've got a lot of experience,
even beyond .
I mean you've helped to grow aunicorn three startups to
acquisition, three startups togrowth equity, one startup to
the Inc 500.
I mean the impact that you havehad already is not
insignificant, as you thinkacross the landscape of where
(13:59):
you've been.
What are some of your favoritemoments?
Chris Rodriguez (14:03):
Sure, before I answer I just want to qualify.
First of all.
I appreciate that introductionI can only take but so much
credit for any of these stories.
I'm a growth marketer.
I'm not C-suite on some ofthese examples or we're vendors,
right, so I want to qualifythat.
But yes, as a growth marketerand as a growth marketing agency
(14:26):
, we definitely take pride ineverything that you've just
described, william.
So thank you for that.
Now I feel that my favoritestories are those where there's
an anecdotal win amongst theexperiment methodology and that
win is so memorable that itperhaps shifts the company
(14:51):
beyond just me or .
That I or have left an impactpermanently on that company.
That's what I take the mostpride in.
So if I were to think about acouple of anecdotes I remember,
while being protective of thespecific startups that I might
(15:11):
reference, I'll be specificabout maybe some story details.
So I remember a particularhomepage optimization experiment
, that simplified message andconversion opportunity that led
to a several hundred percentincrease in conversion rate and,
(15:32):
given that that's the mostimportant page on the site, it
was a seismic shift goingforward for just general
expectations of daily conversion.
And that might sound small andlike a little too nerdy for some
of the listeners, but that'swhat makes me and that's what
makes us tick.
Is that kind of stuff?
Um, when you're doing coldemail and you've tried three or
(15:53):
four tactics and you know itjust ain't working, and suddenly
a particular copywriting uhapproach instead of too salesy
with too many words,hyper-simplified, almost
conversational, to then lead toa big boost in reply rate,
(16:16):
things like that are what reallymakes us tick.
I realize those are abstract forthe listeners, but you can tell
already by my tone I'm tryingto be a little safe here, but
hopefully that gives you theanswer to the question, which is
we are so immersed in thespecifics and the methodology
(16:38):
and we believe in themethodology even when it's not
going well, the experimentalmethodologies that when we get a
win boy are we ready to popsome bottles.
So you know, that's somethingthat we stand by and I would say
I would hope to think thatthose that work with us first of
all understand that, not justbecause of my words but the
demonstrated outputs, and alsovalue that right.
(17:02):
We're not leading with ego.
We're going to come withinsights and recommendations
that are rooted in decades ofexperience and work.
But if the data says we'rewrong, hey, we're the first to
raise our hand and say, hey,this didn't work, we were wrong.
The data says to go this way,let's pivot and go.
No emotion, and I'd like toperceive that as a value add for
(17:24):
anyone that works with us and,frankly, beyond IL, I commend
anyone who's on the front lines,like we are, that thinks that
way, not just because we'realigned in what I think is
strong, but to lead with mathfirst and remove ego, I think
just alleviates so much in somany ways.
Dr. William Attaway (17:45):
So yeah, that's really good.
Yeah, you know somebody mightlisten to that introduction of
you and read about and even lookat your highlight reel online,
looking at everything about youthat we see, and they might
think, oh man, chris's journey'sjust been up and to the right
(18:05):
Like he really hasn't struggled,he really hasn't had the hard
days like I have as anentrepreneur.
If somebody's sitting acrossfrom you having coffee and they
say that, what is your response?
Chris Rodriguez (18:18):
Well, I can give you some specifics that
almost have nothing to do withmarketing, that I would say
represent many people's stories,but it also represents a
seasoning that I'm proud of.
So I've had a client in thebeginning of my career I'm
(18:41):
talking about first six monthsnot pay me for two months of
work and I was left out to dry.
I didn't, I wasn't matureenough to have like good lawyers
.
Uh, for anyone getting in anyideas now I've certainly
lawyered up quite well, so don'tget any ideas.
But, um, you know, I feel thatthat that, obviously, as much as
(19:01):
that's a negative, it's like a,it's like a weird pride,
prideful stripe that I'm allowedto wear because I know how, how
the game can be.
Um, I've been fired withoutcause and walked out of the
building like I was a criminal,you know, and I'm you guys can't
see me here, but I'm five footsix, like 145 pounds, like what
(19:23):
are we talking about you?
You know it's things like thatthat I have used as body armor,
I have used as motivation, andyou know, some people might
think that's inappropriate, somepeople might think that's corny
.
Whatever makes you tick is isthe Jedi mind trick that you
(19:45):
need to understand and masterand I'm explaining mine.
I walk with a chip on myshoulder.
Um, I've been disrespectedcountless times throughout my
career, whether in organizations, from a political standpoint or
with uh you know potentialclients.
(20:05):
So I just take all of that tosay I will give every single
person who I ever experiencedthe benefit of the doubt.
I'm about solving puzzles.
We're good at what we do, butI'm not leading with ego.
This is what this represents.
I'm a little bit of a, you know.
Sometimes I can be gruff.
I just got off a client calland I was a bit gruff.
(20:28):
I apologize afterwards.
I'm like you know what, sorryfor my tone, just want to get to
the answer.
I'm a solutions oriented leaderwho has been through the grind
and I ain't getting any younger.
So we're going to get tosuccess for our clients.
We're going to get to successfor our clients.
We're going to get to successfor and that's what this
(20:48):
represents.
And some people love it.
Will, william, will sorry,william, and some people it's
not their cup of tea and that'sokay.
I've learned to be the fullestversion of myself and to try to
surround myself with people whoappreciate the very story I just
shared.
Dr. William Attaway (21:09):
So let's dive into that for a second.
You know your company needs youto lead at a higher level today
than it did five years ago.
Your team, your clients, theyneed you to lead better.
Five years from now, that'sgoing to be even more true.
So how do you stay on top ofyour game?
How do you level up with thenew leadership skills that your
(21:32):
team and your clients and yourcompany are going to need you to
have?
Chris Rodriguez (21:36):
Sure, Well, first I'll say I still have a
lot more maturing to do.
I'm an early leader.
I'm learning every day.
Dr. William Attaway (21:53):
To your point.
Chris Rodriguez (21:53):
William, I was a solopreneur not too long ago.
I didn't have enough revenue tohire someone at a
market-relevant salary and tohire several people at that rate
.
So I just want to start bysaying I'm still figuring it out
Now.
That said, I've taken a fewapproaches that I'd like to say
(22:14):
were intentional, because of mebeing aware of my strengths and
weaknesses, and so I'vesurrounded myself and hopefully
this word, this word fits, buthopefully it's appropriate
rather incestuously with formercolleagues.
(22:34):
Not everyone does that, andthere was a time when I first
started that I didn't do thatand I learned I've got to have a
lot more patience and grace asa leader, and I'm not sitting
here excusing away lack ofpatience and lack of grace, but
I am aware that it's still awork in progress.
(23:00):
That surrounding yourself withsmart, secure, self-sufficient
people is, yes, just a choice, apermutation.
There are other ways to go.
That was the choice that madethe most sense for me and so
(23:23):
that both helped me as a leaderwhile also added to the value of
the company.
And I'll just say that, withthe utmost of respect for any
peer-like companies that aretaking the opposite approach.
I didn't want to hire a bunchof lower cost, higher margin for
the sake of higher margin.
(23:44):
Anyone who's a leader knows thetrade-off, and I just found
that that was not my recipe forsuccess.
So for anyone listening though,this is just my story and I'm
proud to share it the realtakeaway you should have is
understand your secret sauce,understand what makes you tick,
(24:06):
understand your weaknesses andthen make calculated decisions
as to your approach.
I'm just sharing mine.
Dr. William Attaway (24:14):
I love that .
I think understanding your ownwiring is key to high
performance, high capacityleadership.
So you know the best leaders,the highest capacity and highest
performance leaders I know arecontinual learners.
They, you know the best leaders, the highest capacity and
highest performance leaders Iknow are continual learners.
They're constantly growing,constantly learning.
So how do you do that?
How are you?
What are the rhythms and habitsthat you have in your life so
(24:36):
that you are constantly learningand growing?
Chris Rodriguez (24:38):
Well, we are very much on the front lines of
a decent sized roster of clients, so there's nothing like being
on the front lines when you havea problem to solve, and the
same problem over the course ofa six, 12, 18 month.
Different timing has differentsolutions.
So there's that which isinvaluable how do we solve SEO,
(25:04):
on-page optimization?
It's a different answer todaythan it was 12 months ago.
That's right.
So that is the most invaluableway to stay current.
Separate from that, you know, Idon't I shame on me I should
listen to more podcasts likeCatalytic Leadership, because I
(25:28):
believe that is actually in linewith my preferred method of
consumption.
I'm an audio guy.
I'm a hip-hop, edm, motown,soul, instrumental kind of guy.
I'm always listening to tunes,so audio is my preferred um
consumption choice.
(25:49):
Now, as I say that the way thatI I have, well, you know,
hopefully, uh, most people canappreciate this who are
listening, I'm pretty sure I'mundiagnosed adult ADHD, pretty
sure, and uhosed adult ADHD,pretty sure, and I'd like to
think most brilliant people havea little bit of that in them.
(26:09):
And so, you know, sitting andreading even 250-page book on
best practices for X or Y or Z,you know I've cracked many of
these books open behind me.
But nothing like you, william,you're.
(26:31):
You've got quite the stunt wallthere and um, you know, I'm I'm
more of a short formconsumption guy.
Let me go to SEO roundtablecom,you know.
Let me go to tactical website,to tactical website.
Three, I have no associationwith with SEO roundtable, just
noting I consume articles inthat way that have tactical
ramifications.
Interestingly, I have an evenlarger forcing function to do
(26:55):
exactly that, because we haverecently launched our company
newsletter that's not a plug,it's more an explanation.
Newsletter that's not a plug,it's more an explanation and
within the newsletter we areaggregating what we believe is
the most important things tokeep your finger on the pulse as
(27:15):
it relates to digital marketing.
So by the nature of thatexercise, I'm almost checking
myself to say do I in fact knowhow much of an effect the AI
result at the top of the SEOresults is cannibalizing what
used to be first page, firstslot click-through rates?
(27:35):
If I don't know, let meunderstand with this
comprehensive report that wasput out two weeks ago, right?
So I'm into short form mediaconsumption from an expert
digital marketing standpoint.
Dr. William Attaway (27:51):
Chris, I have so enjoyed this
conversation because you havebeen so authentic and
transparent about not only yourjourney so far but how you learn
, what you're learning and whereyou want to go.
I know our listeners are goingto want to stay connected to you
and continue to learn more fromyou and about and what you're
(28:11):
doing over there.
What is the best way for folksto do that?
Chris Rodriguez (28:15):
Yeah, I want to also share with you, william,
that I very much appreciatedthis chat.
You are an expert at your craftand, as I just stated not too
long ago, that matters to me.
So kudos to you and Iappreciate you.
Bringing me on Our website iseasy enough to remember.
(28:36):
It's our company's nameI-E-X-C-E-L, dot co, not dot com
, and our social media handles,generally speaking, are .
But I would encourage you tofind us on LinkedIn.
We are big believers in thebusiness of LinkedIn.
(28:59):
I've committed to LinkedInsince its earliest days.
I remember seeing a LinkedIntable at a conference that had
the traditional old school likethrow over drape and it was a
little old LinkedIn and I thinkthat was 14, 13, no, 20 years
(29:19):
ago Wow, when I was still in themusic and hip hop game and I
put all my energy into LinkedInis the point of that.
So please find me on LinkedIn.
Personally, my name is ChrisRodriguez and you can also find
our company, ixl, on LinkedInand, again, our domain is .
Dr. William Attaway (29:42):
We'll have all those links in the show
notes.
Awesome, chris.
Thank you.
This has been a fascinatingconversation and I really
appreciate you being on the show.
Chris Rodriguez (29:52):
Thank you, William.
I appreciate the time andlooking forward to seeing the
growth of catalytic leadershipas well.
I'm so excited today to have Chris
Rodriguez on the podcast.
Chris is a 20-year marketingveteran with a passion for
driving growth and tangibleresults for brands and
entrepreneurs.
He's worked with over 30startups across all tiers of
funding and sizes, generatingbrand awareness, web traffic,
(00:20):
signups, downloads and, mostimportantly, customers and
revenue.
He now runs the agency iExcel.
co, a B2B, saas-focused demandgeneration and marketing
operations agency based out ofthe greater Washington DC area.
Chris has helped grow oneunicorn, three startups to
acquisition, two startups togrowth equity and one startup to
(00:44):
the Inc 500.
He's left a positive impactwith countless companies and
colleagues, as is evident fromhis 70-plus LinkedIn
recommendations.
He's taught students, developedcourses and mentored startup
founders at companies likeTechstars, general Assembly,
springboard and Plassy.
He's been recognized by GrowthHacker TV as one of the top 200
(01:08):
experts on startup growth.
Chris, I'm so glad you're here.
Thanks for being on the show.
Chris Rodriguez (01:14):
Thank you for having me, William.
I'm excited to be here as well.
I am a big fan of what it isthat your podcast represents, so
I'm happy to share my story.
Intro/Outro (01:28):
Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the
podcast designed to help leadersintentionally grow and thrive.
Here is your host author andleadership and executive coach,
dr William Attaway.
Dr. William Attaway (01:50):
William Attaway.
I would love to begin with yousharing a little bit of your
story with our listeners, Chris,particularly around your
journey and your development asa leader.
How did you get started?
Chris Rodriguez (01:57):
Sure.
So I will fast forward throughthe early stage to say I come
from humble beginnings, brooklyn, new York City a chip on my
shoulder as a result, was veryfortunate to have a strong
educational path and found myway into, at the time, music and
(02:18):
entertainment marketing for Iwould say about 10 years or so
and had a bit of an epiphanythat I am more passionate about
the craft of marketing than I amthe actual music being marketed
, and so I found what makes metick and at that point I became
a 30-year-old rookie in techstartups Wow, and, as you could
(02:43):
imagine, all of the clichesabout tech, young bro culture,
et cetera.
And here I was a 30-year-oldrookie keeping up with the young
folks, sometimes out hustlingthe young folks, and also had
the advantage of a 10-year priorcareer in digital marketing.
Fast forward today and I am 13years past that moment.
(03:09):
So I just gave you my age there.
I'm 43.
And I have, after havingseveral stops at several tech
startups, finally fleshed out onmy own.
July 2019, in fact, I know themonth like yesterday.
Of course, I couldn't know atthe moment that that was nine
(03:30):
months before COVID hit.
So COVID actually and I saythis with the utmost of respect,
where many people andindustries were obviously
tremendously negatively affected.
Logic would tell you thatdigital marketing would have all
of the reasons to boom and Iwas fortunate enough to be on
(03:50):
that wave.
It helped really put the windin the sails of the consultancy
and I was able to gather oneparticular step function
increase client that reallyturned it up from individual
consultancy to something biggerthan me At a high level.
(04:11):
That's a 30,000-foot summary ofmy story as it stands today.
We're still humble.
I like to consider us and Ihope this isn't a crude analogy,
but I like to call us in themiddle class of agencies, which
is to say I humbly share that.
We've hit several milestonesthat maybe many peers are aiming
(04:35):
for and I'm humbled andgrateful and I'm aware of where
we are and at the same time, Ialso know that we haven't done
you know what yet.
So to that end, there's a lotof green field in front of us,
but we have a greatinfrastructure and a lot of
solidification to what it meansto be a mature agency.
Dr. William Attaway (05:03):
So I'm proud of that, almost more so
than vanity growth numbers.
So much there, Chris, I wouldlove to dive into you.
You've now got nearly a quartercentury of experience in the
digital marketing world.
You have seen this world shift,change, pivot, grow and then do
(05:31):
it all again multiple times.
With that kind of perspectiveand looking over that time
period, what do you think aresome of the things?
Where are we heading?
You know, you've seen a lot ofchange and a lot of things that
used to work don't really workanymore.
Sure, when are we going?
Chris Rodriguez (05:44):
I, uh, if, if, if I am to answer that question
with an oversimplified, you knowquick sentence or two, I would
say the game hasn't changed.
The tools change, the goalsdon't change how you get there
changes, and usuallyimprovements have to do with
(06:09):
things related to efficiency,automation, refinement of
processes.
So, though AI, as the buzzworddu jour and it's been that way
for some time, as the buzzworddu jour and it's been that way
for some time, feels like athreat, a glass half full view
is this is the new tool thatdigital marketers need to be
(06:32):
aware of understand theecosystem, understand the
strengths and weaknesses of theoptions within the ecosystem,
understand the use cases andthink more project management of
those tools than the threatthat the tool might replace or
remove something that, frankly,was most likely commoditized in
(06:57):
the first place.
So, no, wonder an automation has, in fact, solidified that
commoditization.
So, rather than being afraid ofit, we're running towards it.
I guess specifically nosurprise to anyone in 2025, but
agencies like mine are realizingthat it could be an existential
(07:20):
threat if you don't get a holdof this.
So we are leaning in withtraining, expertise, awareness
of the ecosystem, et cetera.
But just to get back to thereal point, um, you know the
thing that changes is refinement, automation, improvement,
betterment, and so to see itnegative feels like an archaic
(07:45):
view and you will be left behindif you take that approach.
Dr. William Attaway (07:51):
So tell me about .
What is your agency about?
What do you focus on?
Where do you bring the mostvalue?
Chris Rodriguez (07:57):
Sure.
Well, is, yes, started from anextension of me, Chris, but I
believe it represents a way ofbeing and I don't mean to be too
dramatic, but I personally amvery passionate about my craft,
(08:19):
uh, passionate about learningand mastering my craft,
passionate about demonstratingand exuding my craft, be it to
clients, be it to students, beit to colleagues, junior
colleagues, seasoned colleagues,and I have found that my
experience on the market.
I didn't realize this, I wasjust quote unquote, being myself
(08:43):
, but I realized that that was adifferentiator.
I mean, I'm not here to badmouth other agencies, I'm just
speaking about myself and tosay I understood that that was a
strength and I wanted to createa team and a company and a
culture that exudes the sameprinciples and has the same
(09:04):
passion.
Is excited when you solve aconversion optimization problem.
Is excited when you test fiveiterations of ad copy and see
version four was 5x performingon the rest.
That matters to me, not justbecause of vanity numbers,
because I care about this and Idon't know if I Excel is even
(09:28):
bigger from a culture standpoint.
To be like you know it'stechnically it's a sentence,
subject, verb, uh, punctuationright.
I Excel period is the logo.
So, um, I want to be surroundedby people who feel that way
about what it is that they do,and people who want to hire and
work with people who think thatway.
(09:49):
That is what I think reallyrepresents.
Now, if I'm to answer thedigital marketing part of that
answer, we are a performancemarketing and demand generation
shop.
If you asked me that questiontwo or three years ago, I would
say we are a B2B shop.
We have since had some of ourbiggest case studies on B2C.
(10:11):
The tactics are differentSmaller audiences in B2B versus
wider in B2C.
Faster funnels in B2C versuslonger funnels in B2B.
What I'll say is we can dodamage with any marketing puzzle
presented to us, and thatranges from search, be it paid
(10:36):
or, like I say, free, so organic.
That goes for social, paid orfree, Social media management,
social media automation.
I use free to say organicbecause it's very simplified and
it really illustrates the pointDo you want to spend ad budget
or do you want to not spend adbudget?
Yeah, and we try to be mastersof these respective channels on
(10:56):
both sides of that fork in theroad.
The same goes for email, not somuch paid email, but lead
generation email versus nurtureemail right, so cold versus
marketing automation.
Traditionally, and though I'mspeaking a little tongue in
cheek with the following we liketo do the boring stuff too.
So tracking analytics, you know.
(11:18):
Pixel verifications goal, youknow, QA, doing massive
spreadsheets to be able to finda diamond in the rough of an
insight and then share thosesummary insights and
recommendations, Like all ofthat is what it means to be .
Dr. William Attaway (11:38):
Who are some of your favorite clients to
work with?
Some of the people that youfeel like, man.
These are the people I got thebest results for and I enjoyed
doing it.
You're trying to get me introuble, man.
These are the people I got thebest results for and I enjoyed
doing it.
Chris Rodriguez (11:47):
You're trying to get me in trouble, william,
with that question, right?
I mean, if I mentioned three orfour or five, what about the
other, however many?
So what I'll say is I mostappreciate someone who a partner
, who is not a cop-out answer,but of the mentality that,
(12:07):
frankly, I just described.
First off, because I havelearned that, even though that
had been just an experience tohave, and you value the good
ones and note the bad ones I'mgetting to a state and I say
this humbly, but I feel likeI've earned enough to be able to
choose who it is that I and wework with 100%, and I'm looking
(12:29):
to be a little more stringentabout people who are actually
looking to value and partnerwith a company like ours.
Forget about us specifically,but if you're not of this
mindset, then it's already goingdown the wrong path.
So that is the true answer, andsure I could pick two or three
(12:49):
or four specifics that fit thatmold, but I'll say that
comfortably.
What I will also say is our mostsuccessful projects are those
where we are essentially amarketing department, or I
should say a demand gendepartment on wheels.
A little bit of strategy, alittle bit of execution, a
little bit of trustedpartnership.
(13:11):
We're working on a few channelsand the value is felt where,
whatever the rate might be ofthat arrangement, you are, as
the partner, feeling very glasshalf full about working with a
team like versus thealternative, I don't know a
full-time senior or even afull-time junior salary.
(13:32):
We play very well in acomparison against that.
Dr. William Attaway (13:38):
You know you've got a lot of experience,
even beyond .
I mean you've helped to grow aunicorn three startups to
acquisition, three startups togrowth equity, one startup to
the Inc 500.
I mean the impact that you havehad already is not
insignificant, as you thinkacross the landscape of where
(13:59):
you've been.
What are some of your favoritemoments?
Chris Rodriguez (14:03):
Sure, before I answer I just want to qualify.
First of all.
I appreciate that introductionI can only take but so much
credit for any of these stories.
I'm a growth marketer.
I'm not C-suite on some ofthese examples or we're vendors,
right, so I want to qualifythat.
But yes, as a growth marketerand as a growth marketing agency
(14:26):
, we definitely take pride ineverything that you've just
described, william.
So thank you for that.
Now I feel that my favoritestories are those where there's
an anecdotal win amongst theexperiment methodology and that
win is so memorable that itperhaps shifts the company
(14:51):
beyond just me or .
That I or have left an impactpermanently on that company.
That's what I take the mostpride in.
So if I were to think about acouple of anecdotes I remember,
while being protective of thespecific startups that I might
(15:11):
reference, I'll be specificabout maybe some story details.
So I remember a particularhomepage optimization experiment
, that simplified message andconversion opportunity that led
to a several hundred percentincrease in conversion rate and,
(15:32):
given that that's the mostimportant page on the site, it
was a seismic shift goingforward for just general
expectations of daily conversion.
And that might sound small andlike a little too nerdy for some
of the listeners, but that'swhat makes me and that's what
makes us tick.
Is that kind of stuff?
Um, when you're doing coldemail and you've tried three or
(15:53):
four tactics and you know itjust ain't working, and suddenly
a particular copywriting uhapproach instead of too salesy
with too many words,hyper-simplified, almost
conversational, to then lead toa big boost in reply rate,
(16:16):
things like that are what reallymakes us tick.
I realize those are abstract forthe listeners, but you can tell
already by my tone I'm tryingto be a little safe here, but
hopefully that gives you theanswer to the question, which is
we are so immersed in thespecifics and the methodology
(16:38):
and we believe in themethodology even when it's not
going well, the experimentalmethodologies that when we get a
win boy are we ready to popsome bottles.
So you know, that's somethingthat we stand by and I would say
I would hope to think thatthose that work with us first of
all understand that, not justbecause of my words but the
demonstrated outputs, and alsovalue that right.
(17:02):
We're not leading with ego.
We're going to come withinsights and recommendations
that are rooted in decades ofexperience and work.
But if the data says we'rewrong, hey, we're the first to
raise our hand and say, hey,this didn't work, we were wrong.
The data says to go this way,let's pivot and go.
No emotion, and I'd like toperceive that as a value add for
(17:24):
anyone that works with us and,frankly, beyond IL, I commend
anyone who's on the front lines,like we are, that thinks that
way, not just because we'realigned in what I think is
strong, but to lead with mathfirst and remove ego, I think
just alleviates so much in somany ways.
Dr. William Attaway (17:45):
So yeah, that's really good.
Yeah, you know somebody mightlisten to that introduction of
you and read about and even lookat your highlight reel online,
looking at everything about youthat we see, and they might
think, oh man, chris's journey'sjust been up and to the right
(18:05):
Like he really hasn't struggled,he really hasn't had the hard
days like I have as anentrepreneur.
If somebody's sitting acrossfrom you having coffee and they
say that, what is your response?
Chris Rodriguez (18:18):
Well, I can give you some specifics that
almost have nothing to do withmarketing, that I would say
represent many people's stories,but it also represents a
seasoning that I'm proud of.
So I've had a client in thebeginning of my career I'm
(18:41):
talking about first six monthsnot pay me for two months of
work and I was left out to dry.
I didn't, I wasn't matureenough to have like good lawyers
.
Uh, for anyone getting in anyideas now I've certainly
lawyered up quite well, so don'tget any ideas.
But, um, you know, I feel thatthat that, obviously, as much as
(19:01):
that's a negative, it's like a,it's like a weird pride,
prideful stripe that I'm allowedto wear because I know how, how
the game can be.
Um, I've been fired withoutcause and walked out of the
building like I was a criminal,you know, and I'm you guys can't
see me here, but I'm five footsix, like 145 pounds, like what
(19:23):
are we talking about you?
You know it's things like thatthat I have used as body armor,
I have used as motivation, andyou know, some people might
think that's inappropriate, somepeople might think that's corny
.
Whatever makes you tick is isthe Jedi mind trick that you
(19:45):
need to understand and masterand I'm explaining mine.
I walk with a chip on myshoulder.
Um, I've been disrespectedcountless times throughout my
career, whether in organizations, from a political standpoint or
with uh you know potentialclients.
(20:05):
So I just take all of that tosay I will give every single
person who I ever experiencedthe benefit of the doubt.
I'm about solving puzzles.
We're good at what we do, butI'm not leading with ego.
This is what this represents.
I'm a little bit of a, you know.
Sometimes I can be gruff.
I just got off a client calland I was a bit gruff.
(20:28):
I apologize afterwards.
I'm like you know what, sorryfor my tone, just want to get to
the answer.
I'm a solutions oriented leaderwho has been through the grind
and I ain't getting any younger.
So we're going to get tosuccess for our clients.
We're going to get to successfor our clients.
We're going to get to successfor and that's what this
(20:48):
represents.
And some people love it.
Will, william, will sorry,william, and some people it's
not their cup of tea and that'sokay.
I've learned to be the fullestversion of myself and to try to
surround myself with people whoappreciate the very story I just
shared.
Dr. William Attaway (21:09):
So let's dive into that for a second.
You know your company needs youto lead at a higher level today
than it did five years ago.
Your team, your clients, theyneed you to lead better.
Five years from now, that'sgoing to be even more true.
So how do you stay on top ofyour game?
How do you level up with thenew leadership skills that your
(21:32):
team and your clients and yourcompany are going to need you to
have?
Chris Rodriguez (21:36):
Sure, Well, first I'll say I still have a
lot more maturing to do.
I'm an early leader.
I'm learning every day.
Dr. William Attaway (21:53):
To your point.
Chris Rodriguez (21:53):
William, I was a solopreneur not too long ago.
I didn't have enough revenue tohire someone at a
market-relevant salary and tohire several people at that rate
.
So I just want to start bysaying I'm still figuring it out
Now.
That said, I've taken a fewapproaches that I'd like to say
(22:14):
were intentional, because of mebeing aware of my strengths and
weaknesses, and so I'vesurrounded myself and hopefully
this word, this word fits, buthopefully it's appropriate
rather incestuously with formercolleagues.
(22:34):
Not everyone does that, andthere was a time when I first
started that I didn't do thatand I learned I've got to have a
lot more patience and grace asa leader, and I'm not sitting
here excusing away lack ofpatience and lack of grace, but
I am aware that it's still awork in progress.
(23:00):
That surrounding yourself withsmart, secure, self-sufficient
people is, yes, just a choice, apermutation.
There are other ways to go.
That was the choice that madethe most sense for me and so
(23:23):
that both helped me as a leaderwhile also added to the value of
the company.
And I'll just say that, withthe utmost of respect for any
peer-like companies that aretaking the opposite approach.
I didn't want to hire a bunchof lower cost, higher margin for
the sake of higher margin.
(23:44):
Anyone who's a leader knows thetrade-off, and I just found
that that was not my recipe forsuccess.
So for anyone listening though,this is just my story and I'm
proud to share it the realtakeaway you should have is
understand your secret sauce,understand what makes you tick,
(24:06):
understand your weaknesses andthen make calculated decisions
as to your approach.
I'm just sharing mine.
Dr. William Attaway (24:14):
I love that .
I think understanding your ownwiring is key to high
performance, high capacityleadership.
So you know the best leaders,the highest capacity and highest
performance leaders I know arecontinual learners.
They, you know the best leaders, the highest capacity and
highest performance leaders Iknow are continual learners.
They're constantly growing,constantly learning.
So how do you do that?
How are you?
What are the rhythms and habitsthat you have in your life so
(24:36):
that you are constantly learningand growing?
Chris Rodriguez (24:38):
Well, we are very much on the front lines of
a decent sized roster of clients, so there's nothing like being
on the front lines when you havea problem to solve, and the
same problem over the course ofa six, 12, 18 month.
Different timing has differentsolutions.
So there's that which isinvaluable how do we solve SEO,
(25:04):
on-page optimization?
It's a different answer todaythan it was 12 months ago.
That's right.
So that is the most invaluableway to stay current.
Separate from that, you know, Idon't I shame on me I should
listen to more podcasts likeCatalytic Leadership, because I
(25:28):
believe that is actually in linewith my preferred method of
consumption.
I'm an audio guy.
I'm a hip-hop, edm, motown,soul, instrumental kind of guy.
I'm always listening to tunes,so audio is my preferred um
consumption choice.
(25:49):
Now, as I say that the way thatI I have, well, you know,
hopefully, uh, most people canappreciate this who are
listening, I'm pretty sure I'mundiagnosed adult ADHD, pretty
sure, and uhosed adult ADHD,pretty sure, and I'd like to
think most brilliant people havea little bit of that in them.
(26:09):
And so, you know, sitting andreading even 250-page book on
best practices for X or Y or Z,you know I've cracked many of
these books open behind me.
But nothing like you, william,you're.
(26:31):
You've got quite the stunt wallthere and um, you know, I'm I'm
more of a short formconsumption guy.
Let me go to SEO roundtablecom,you know.
Let me go to tactical website,to tactical website.
Three, I have no associationwith with SEO roundtable, just
noting I consume articles inthat way that have tactical
ramifications.
Interestingly, I have an evenlarger forcing function to do
(26:55):
exactly that, because we haverecently launched our company
newsletter that's not a plug,it's more an explanation.
Newsletter that's not a plug,it's more an explanation and
within the newsletter we areaggregating what we believe is
the most important things tokeep your finger on the pulse as
(27:15):
it relates to digital marketing.
So by the nature of thatexercise, I'm almost checking
myself to say do I in fact knowhow much of an effect the AI
result at the top of the SEOresults is cannibalizing what
used to be first page, firstslot click-through rates?
(27:35):
If I don't know, let meunderstand with this
comprehensive report that wasput out two weeks ago, right?
So I'm into short form mediaconsumption from an expert
digital marketing standpoint.
Dr. William Attaway (27:51):
Chris, I have so enjoyed this
conversation because you havebeen so authentic and
transparent about not only yourjourney so far but how you learn
, what you're learning and whereyou want to go.
I know our listeners are goingto want to stay connected to you
and continue to learn more fromyou and about and what you're
(28:11):
doing over there.
What is the best way for folksto do that?
Chris Rodriguez (28:15):
Yeah, I want to also share with you, william,
that I very much appreciatedthis chat.
You are an expert at your craftand, as I just stated not too
long ago, that matters to me.
So kudos to you and Iappreciate you.
Bringing me on Our website iseasy enough to remember.
(28:36):
It's our company's nameI-E-X-C-E-L, dot co, not dot com
, and our social media handles,generally speaking, are .
But I would encourage you tofind us on LinkedIn.
We are big believers in thebusiness of LinkedIn.
(28:59):
I've committed to LinkedInsince its earliest days.
I remember seeing a LinkedIntable at a conference that had
the traditional old school likethrow over drape and it was a
little old LinkedIn and I thinkthat was 14, 13, no, 20 years
(29:19):
ago Wow, when I was still in themusic and hip hop game and I
put all my energy into LinkedInis the point of that.
So please find me on LinkedIn.
Personally, my name is ChrisRodriguez and you can also find
our company, ixl, on LinkedInand, again, our domain is .
Dr. William Attaway (29:42):
We'll have all those links in the show
notes.
Awesome, chris.
Thank you.
This has been a fascinatingconversation and I really
appreciate you being on the show.
Chris Rodriguez (29:52):
Thank you, William.
I appreciate the time andlooking forward to seeing the
growth of catalytic leadershipas well.
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