Inbound leads. Team trust. $125K in 7 weeks.
These aren’t buzzwords—they’re the real results of a client who implemented the systems built by my guest, James Donovan, founder of Nine Two Media. In this episode, James breaks down the exact strategy his agency used to help a service-based firm generate $125,000 in new business in just 49 days using Google Business Profile visibility, Local Service Ads, and targeted positioning that drives results without relying on referrals or bloated retainers.
But we don’t stop at marketing. We dig into the leadership shifts that make that kind of scale possible—and sustainable. James shares what it took to step out of daily fulfillment, trust his team, and build the systems that allowed both his agency and his clients to grow. That’s the real work—moving from operator to CEO.
If you’re stuck in the weeds of fulfillment or wearing every hat in your agency, this conversation will show you what’s possible when systems, strategy, and leadership align. And if you’re already scaling past seven figures, this is a masterclass in how to lead through systems and multiply your impact.
Listen now to discover:
- How James helped a client generate $125K in just 7 weeks using inbound systems
- Why Google visibility is still the most underutilized lead gen lever for service-based firms
- The leadership shift required to delegate, trust, and lead at scale
Whether you're still inside the day-to-day—or already building a leadership team—this episode will challenge how you think, lead, and grow.
Books Mentioned:
- Booked Solid: Digital Marketing Strategies That Actually Work for Accounting Firms by James Donovan
- The Slight Edge by Jeff Olson
Connect with James Donovan:
Looking to build predictable client acquisition systems for your B2B service firm? Connect with James Donovan at ninetwomedia.com or on LinkedIn to learn how his team helps service businesses drive inb
🌟 Check out our podcast sponsor, Competitive Edge Business Consulting, and book your free discovery call with them today at www.CompEdgeConsulting.com 🌟
Join Dr. William Attaway on the Catalytic Leadership podcast as he shares transformative insights to help high-performance entrepreneurs and agency owners achieve Clear-Minded Focus, Calm Control, and Confidence.
- Free 30-Minute Discovery Call:
Ready to elevate your business? Book a free 30-minute discovery call with Dr. William Attaway and start your journey to success.
- Special Offer:
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Connect with Dr. William Attaway:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Wiliam Attaway (00:00):
I'm so excited today to have James
Donovan back on the podcast.
James, no stranger around here,is the founder of Nine2 Media.
He's a trusted growth partnerfor B2B firms in the accounting
and finance space.
James works with fractionalCFOs, tax planning firms and
other professional serviceproviders to build full funnel
(00:20):
client acquisition systemscombining outbound content, paid
ads and smart positioning todrive real revenue.
He has helped hundreds of firmsgrow past referral plateaus and
unlock consistent pipelineswithout relying on hacks or
bloated agency retainers.
James is also the author of thenew book Booked Solid Marketing
(00:45):
Strategies for Accounting Firms, and today he's here to share
what is actually working in B2Bmarketing right now.
James, so good to see you.
James Donovan (00:56):
Thanks for being on the show Thanks for having me
back, William, and for thewonderful introduction.
Dr. Wiliam Attaway (01:01):
I'm excited about this conversation and I
can't wait to hear what you'regoing to share this time around.
James Donovan (01:05):
Awesome.
Well, let's get right into it.
Intro/Outro (01:10):
Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the
podcast designed to help leadersintentionally grow and thrive.
Here is your host author andleadership and executive coach,
dr William Attaway.
Dr. Wiliam Attaway (01:27):
For those of our listeners who didn't hear
your first episode a couple ofseasons ago, I'd love for you to
share a little bit of yourstory.
Remind them of your background,particularly your journey and
your development as a leader.
How'd you get started?
James Donovan (01:47):
I got started by getting laid off from a
corporate job where I wasselling ad space on adult sites.
I did that for yeah, so I'llleave it at that.
We can let everyone paint thepicture.
So I got started about five anda half years ago.
When I was laid off, I saw anad on Facebook about starting a
digital marketing company.
Get five clients at two grand,make 10K super easy.
Intro/Outro (02:13):
Well, I bought into that idea, and it's not that
easy.
James Donovan (02:14):
It's actually a lot harder, or it's been way
harder for me at least.
Maybe it's super easy for otherpeople.
But along that journey therewas I mean, I'm still very much
on it, but trying to figure outone how to run a business,
trying to figure out one how torun a business, how to fulfill
for clients, how to get clientsof your own.
It was I was selling stuff forother businesses before and that
was fine because you could alsojust turn off your brain at 5
(02:36):
PM at night and you didn't haveto think about it.
But one of the biggestchallenges and it's still a
challenge, but in a differentway is really the management of
team members.
That I feel like I've made alot of progress in the last two
years, I would say.
But that was, hands down, thebiggest obstacle that I face and
(02:58):
continue to still face.
I find it really easy to go outand be creative to get clients,
and here's how we can deliver.
But it's finding team membersto come in, establishing trust
with them, relying on them,giving them enough room on their
own.
So you're not micromanaging,but knowing when to step in,
knowing when to provide theencouragement or when you have
(03:21):
to be a little bit more stricton.
This is the way things are done, so that's been a balancing act
.
Working with you has been ahuge benefit in learning, kind
of developing that muscle.
But that to me has kind of beenthe biggest Achilles heel over
the last five and a half years.
Dr. Wiliam Attaway (03:41):
You know.
That's so often, I think, thecase, because when you start a
business, you start it becauseyou're good at providing a
product or a service in yourcase, marketing, right, I mean,
you're good at that.
You know how to do that.
As you find success, though,you have to hire people to help
you with fulfillment, and thenyou have to lead those people.
That's a different skill set.
It's been really neat to be apart of your journey and
(04:03):
watching you grow and develop asa leader and building something
that is not just for the moment, but something that is
sustainable and healthy, and Ithink that is so important if
you want to last, if you want tobuild something long term, as
you have done that.
You've picked up some thingsalong the way, I'm sure, just
(04:23):
like we all do.
What's your biggest learningthese days about leading your
team?
James Donovan (04:29):
To really trust the individuals that you have on
your team.
They're there for a reason,that's good, so trust them to do
the work.
I like that.
It sounds simple, it soundsobvious.
It's.
It's a lot harder, I think, attimes to actually practice that
and to really just trust.
(04:51):
But, um, I'm really happy withthe team I have in place right
now.
It's taken a long time to toget here and have this solid
core and it's it's hard to findthe other hires to mesh into
what I feel we have.
But I'm really, as of late,just trying to 100% kind of step
(05:11):
away and let the team do thetasks that they were hired to do
.
Otherwise, what's the point ofhaving them on the team if
you're just going to keepjumping in Because then you're
not, then I'm not in the areas Ineed to be in to help out our
team.
Dr. Wiliam Attaway (05:25):
You know, I just heard something a few days
ago that really fascinated me.
Most people think that whensomebody leaves a team, when you
have a team member go somewhereelse, that it's because of
money.
That's the number one answer.
In fact, I think it was 89% ofbusiness owners say that when a
team member leaves, it's overmoney.
They get more money somewhereelse.
What is absolutely fascinatingis the study that I was reading.
(05:48):
It was done over 450,000respondents, so this is not a
small study Over 450,000respondents.
The number one reason why peopleleave number one reason 79% of
people who leave leave for thisreason it's not money, it's that
they don't feel like their bossappreciates them and the work
(06:09):
that they do.
Wow, it blew me away.
Yeah, like we think it's money,but business owners think it's
money, so we're all you know.
Oh, all right, here's anotherlittle bit, here's another,
here's another.
That's not it at all, it'sappreciation.
Now, appreciation can bereflected, of course.
If you're underpaying somebody,you should work on that, but
the reality is appreciation isnot something that's on the
(06:33):
radar of a lot of people, and Ihave watched you step into that
and step into that leadershiprole of communicating that
appreciation in multiple ways,not just by saying hey, good job
, which, by the way, is one ofthe worst ways to show
appreciation, because you saygood job to your dog, you know
that's just not a great plan,like, don't do that.
(06:55):
So there's multiple ways tocommunicate appreciation and
I've loved watching you do thatas you have grown and stepped
into that leadership role.
You just wrote a book and afterreading it I have to tell you
this is really well done, book'ssolid.
Why did you write this book?
I mean, there's bookseverywhere.
I've got most of them.
No, just kidding, but, like youknow, like, why did you write
(07:17):
this one a?
James Donovan (07:17):
vehicle.
That's longer form content.
It's hard to get all of thatacross in a post on LinkedIn or
an article that you mightpublish on LinkedIn, so why not
(07:40):
sit down and take the time toreally pour all of it out into a
platform that, if someone wantsto sit down and read it and
they want to benefit theirbusiness, grow their firm now
they have 170 pages to do that.
It's not just an article thatmight take two minutes to read
on LinkedIn, because that's notreally getting into the depths
(08:00):
of what needs to be done.
And I feel very confident withthe strategies put into this
book that if someone reads itcover to cover, they will be
able to, you know, get moreexposure online and generate new
business through onlinemarketing.
Dr. Wiliam Attaway (08:17):
That's good.
When I read this, one of thethings I loved about this was
that you are very clear inspeaking to the actual needs of
business owners in theaccounting space.
You're not just blowing smokeat people and you're not giving
them this high level stuff thatwell, that sounds great, but how
do I do that?
(08:38):
You're actually diving into theweeds.
You're actually diving in andsaying, hey, here's some stuff
you can do to move the needle.
So let me ask you you're theexpert what is the best way for
accounting firm owners, forthese business owners, to
generate qualified sales leadsand opportunities?
James Donovan (08:58):
There's a handful of ways, but the first one I
would say that I go into a lotof depth in the book and what
I'll be speaking about atGrowCon next week.
It's an accounting conference.
It's being visible on Google.
Accounting conference is beingvisible on Google.
It's where people, it's whereyour customers, are looking to
find you or to find a service.
That happens to be what you canprovide.
(09:21):
And I always use the analogy ofthe plumber.
If your sink or toilet breaksat home, assuming you don't know
how to fix it, you're probablynot going on Facebook hoping
that a friend of a friend madean organic post about how they
fix toilets.
Or you're probably not textingsomebody to say, hey, do you
happen to know anybody who mightfix toilets?
I got water leaking everywhere.
(09:42):
No, you're going to Google andyou're searching plumber near me
.
It's no different in theaccounting world or whatever
industry you're in.
People are going to Google.
They want to find a solution.
They're already problem awareand now it's just a matter of do
you have reviews there to buildtheir trust?
Do you have some picturesposted to show that you're real
(10:02):
and do you have a phone numberpeople can reach you at?
If you have those in place,you're going to get way more
calls than if you don't.
There's a lot more you can doafter, but like just that core
than if you don't.
There's a lot more you can doafter, but like just that core.
Be visible where people aresearching for you.
It's not on.
I don't even know what all theother directories are.
People are going to Google.
That's where they're searching.
(10:24):
So, being listed on you know,angie's List or Better Business
Bureau, all these spots Okay,that's great, but when was the
last time you looked there for aservice when you're in need?
Solid point.
Dr. Wiliam Attaway (10:36):
You know, I sometimes hear business owners
who are like yeah, I get it.
Everybody talks about theGoogle business profile.
I get it.
Yeah, I don't know if I needthat or not.
You hear somebody say that, youoverhear somebody saying that.
What is your first gut response?
James Donovan (10:52):
to that.
You ever hear somebody say that.
What is your first gut responseto that?
Well, it's free, so why not?
Matt Clapp actually said this tome at one of the intensives
that we were at.
I was asking him you know, I'mposting on these different
platforms but I'm not posting onTikTok.
I don't feel like my audienceis hanging out there and he's
(11:19):
like how much does it cost tohave a TikTok account?
And then I, you know, I kind ofended the conversation.
So to the same point and I meanI would argue even further that
definitely be on Google.
Because, yes, tiktok can beused as a search engine, but
people are probably going toGoogle first.
So not to discredit Matt at all, because he obviously knows
what he's doing, it's a verysuccessful company.
But if it's free to be on aspot and it's not a lot of
(11:44):
legwork to put up the content,especially with all the tools
now where you link everythingtogether and submit once and it
goes on all of the channels, whynot?
You're putting yourself behindthe eight ball by not doing that
.
Dr. Wiliam Attaway (11:59):
Well said, so say somebody's listening and
their firm has slowly beengrowing mostly referrals, and
they've got a Google businessprofile.
I mean, it may not be anythingto write home about, but they've
got one.
How can they improve it?
What are some things they needto think about and focus?
James Donovan (12:20):
on Get as many reviews as possible.
Reviews are an incredible wayto build that know like trust
factor with people who don'tknow like or trust you.
It's good.
Accounting firms, taxprofessionals, bookkeepers are
(12:43):
coming out of arguably the besttime of the year to get reviews
just tax season.
Every single person that theyfiled a tax return for gave
financial advice to, whatever itis.
They should be sending them aGoogle review link and saying,
hey, would you mind leaving us areview?
The average accounting firm inthe US has 10 reviews on Google.
That's just average.
Dr. Wiliam Attaway (13:02):
I bet they get more than 10 returns this
year.
James Donovan (13:04):
Yeah, so and again.
I'm going to be speaking aboutthis in Utah with the event, but
I'm sure all the accountingfirms could take a look at their
book of business and find 10,15 people that they worked with
in the last 90 days and ask fora Google review and skyrocket
over just being average.
Dr. Wiliam Attaway (13:26):
So good.
You work with a lot of peoplewho are talking to you and other
agencies and trying to decidewho should I go with, and I know
this is the age-old dilemma ofbusiness owners.
I mean, I'm sure you, likeeverybody else, we get pitched
all the time.
You know people sliding up intoour DMs on LinkedIn and
(13:46):
Facebook.
It's so common and soconsistent when somebody is
talking to you and they say,okay, yeah, but what makes 9to
different?
What makes 9to Media differentthan every other marketing
company?
Like, why should I choose youguys?
What is your unique proposition?
James Donovan (14:08):
I normally ask them how they got in touch with
us and then I say we'llimplement that system in your
business.
Intro/Outro (14:14):
so either they came through.
James Donovan (14:17):
They came through google because they were
searching for a marketingcompany, or they were searching
online and our articles poppedup because they're all seo
optimized.
Or they came through one of ourads on facebook, or they
responded to our message onlinkedin and I say you're here,
so why don't we just implementwhat got you here, but into your
(14:38):
business?
Dr. Wiliam Attaway (14:38):
That's so good.
It's so simple and so good.
I love that.
James Donovan (14:49):
Most of the time people, they're like, okay, yeah
, that makes a lot of sense.
Sometimes they're stillcomically like, oh, I don't know
if it would work for mybusiness.
I'm like, okay, well, againyou're here.
So I feel like that, you knowthat says enough Worked with you
.
Yeah, I mean that's one way, butI don't know A lot of people
(15:11):
can say this as well.
I know our team and myself wetake a lot of people can say
this as well.
I, I, I know our team andmyself.
We take a lot of pride in whowe work with and really want
everyone we work with to win,and it's not, they're not just a
number to us.
We know everyone's name, weknow about their business,
what's going on in their lives,and I want to see them win,
because the more they win, thebetter off, like they'll take
(15:31):
care of our business if we justtake care of them.
They'll take care of ourbusiness If we just take care of
them, they'll take care of usin return.
Dr. Wiliam Attaway (15:35):
I think that is a differentiator, not that
the first one's not, but I thinkthe second one matters.
You said earlier you know theknow, like and trust factor.
You know, we know, that peopledo business with people, that
they know like and trust, and wewant to be known as well, you
know, as customers, as clients,and I think that offering that
(15:57):
as part of who you are and howyou operate is what makes your
retention go up.
I think that's why clientsstick with you, because they
feel known and they feel valued.
You know, part of showingsomebody value is knowing them,
knowing about them, and I thinkthat's what you guys do and I
think that's why you're seeingthe results that you're seeing.
James Donovan (16:17):
I appreciate that we're we're trying.
There's always room to improve,like anything, but I think
that's also been a bigdifferentiator in the last
couple of years compared to thefirst couple of years.
That's good.
Dr. Wiliam Attaway (16:29):
So somebody looks at what you're doing and
they say, okay, the Googlebusiness profile, I got
something like that.
But I feel like I should bedoing some ads.
I feel like I should kind of dosome outbound stuff.
Try to get some people callingIf an accounting firm comes to
you and they're like, hey, Ithink we're ready for that step.
And I've heard of these localservice ads.
(16:51):
I've heard Facebook ads andGoogle ads.
It's just all overwhelmingRight.
Where do they start.
James Donovan (16:57):
It's a great question.
I would probably get them toask the question of where do you
want to be bringing in newclients?
Do you want them in yourbackyard or are you trying to go
nationwide right away?
And also, what's your budget?
What's your appetite for paidads?
If you're just getting started,I would suggest local service
ads.
It's a pay per call model.
(17:18):
So what that means is unlikeFacebook, where you're paying
every single day to have your addisplayed and maybe you're
getting results, maybe you'renot.
Local service ads is reallyfriendly to businesses getting
started because if your phonedoesn't ring doesn't cost you
anything and you get very highintent leads because the person
who's on the other end of thephone calling you they're
(17:41):
already looking for the solutionyou have to offer.
Unlike Facebook ads that workreally well, but Facebook ads
you're trying to almost convinceor poke at the pain that you
know your audience may have andget them to take action.
Where local service ads,they're searching for you for
that solution.
Dr. Wiliam Attaway (18:01):
Oh, that's good.
I think the expertise is whypeople come to you, james.
I think this world isoverwhelming and we all have the
curse of knowledge in our areaswhere we have spent the time
and the expertise to sharpen oursaws and get good at something.
People don't know marketing.
They know accounting in thisworld, right, they're really
(18:23):
good at that.
I don't want to know accountingpersonally.
That's why I have an accountant.
I don't want to learn the taxcode, right, and I think for
them to understand that, justlike they are an expert in their
field, you are an expert inyour field.
Talk about some of the peoplethat you've worked with.
What are some examples ofclients that you have helped to
(18:44):
get the results that they'reafter?
James Donovan (18:47):
Yeah, a really big win that we're excited about
.
That is pretty recent.
One of our clients, sean, inTexas.
We were implementing GoogleMaps, google Business Profile,
local service ads for him,implementing, you know, google
Maps, google Business Profile,local service ads for him.
Within about 49 days ofreceiving inbound calls and
(19:08):
tweaking the types of calls hewanted to receive, dialing in
the services that he offers,refining how we qualify those
leads, he was able to close Ithink it was around 125K of new
business in that first 49 days,Probably like 30 grand or so
cash collected.
Wow.
So that's again just fromreceiving inbound calls of
(19:31):
people who are searching for theservices he offers.
It works so well but it doestake a bit of time.
There is some work that goesinto it.
It's not you just set it up andyou run with it.
There is work, otherwise itwouldn't work so well and
everyone would be doing it.
But when you run the systemproperly and you have the right
pieces in place, the results canbe massive.
(19:54):
That's a pretty big win, Ithink.
Dr. Wiliam Attaway (20:02):
I don't think there's too many
businesses that would turn away$125,000 in 50 days Not shabby.
I love that man.
You know you're a businessowner and your team and your
clients, your business, needsyou to lead at a higher level
today than they did three, four,five years ago.
That same thing is going to betrue three, four, five years
(20:24):
from now.
So how do you stay on top ofyour game as the business owner,
as the leader?
How do you level up with thenew leadership skills that your
team and your clients and yourbusiness are going to need you
to have in the days ahead?
James Donovan (20:35):
Yeah, that's a great question.
I'm heavily invested intodifferent masterminds one-on-one
coaching with yourself.
That's a game changer, asfoolish as it may sound.
With utilizing Instagram, I tryto when I'm maybe mindlessly
scrolling at times, make sureI'm following accounts that do
(20:57):
provide a ton of value and savethose reels and go back and
rewatch those things and sharenotes inside of Slack with
myself that, okay, I want toimplement this.
But definitely attendingmasterminds with being around
others who are significantlyfurther ahead, those who are at
the same space as you, those whoare aspiring to be where you're
(21:18):
at, that is incredible, yeah.
And then the private coachinghaving others to bounce those
ideas off, of hear what'sworking, what's not working,
someone to identify hey, you'rekind of going off into a ditch
like course correct a bit.
That's what I focus on, so good.
Dr. Wiliam Attaway (21:37):
As you think about your business and the
track that you have seen inthese last years, you know from
the beginning and you thinkabout where you want to go from
here.
So often as business owners, welook at the obstacles, we look
at what the challenges are andwhat's in the way, what's going
wrong.
I want to key into that forjust a second.
(22:00):
Most often I tell people focuson what's going right, but
there's times you need toidentify the problem.
If I could, with a magic wand,take it and wave it and solve
one big problem for 9-2 Media,what would you like that problem
to?
James Donovan (22:16):
be.
I'll give you two, because thefirst one's probably more
comical and's it's getting a usbusiness credit card.
Being a canadian, canadianregistered business, that has
been one of the biggestheadaches, oh my goodness, um.
So yeah, that's big.
If you could help with the oldcredit card and you know
cross-border banking stuff,william that'd be great if I had
(22:40):
the magic wand yeah, um,outside of that, I would.
it's I think it's still justimproving the muscle to really
like step away from theday-to-day operations.
I I feel like there's someweeks I do a really good job
(23:02):
with that and I rely on the teamand they do great, and then I
just I find myself because it'scomfortable getting back into it
and trying to make microadjustments or providing
feedback when I know where mytime is better spent to help
grow the business and help theother team members.
But I find myself going backthere, whether it's a case of it
(23:26):
seems like it's busy work andit's filling the calendar and
maybe subconsciously it's likeokay, well, you're busy all week
, so that's why you keep goingback.
That would be, I would say, themagic wand piece of just like
you're never back in there andeverything is going to be fine
without you.
It's good.
Dr. Wiliam Attaway (23:44):
So so often we start a business because we
want freedom right Locationfreedom, financial freedom, time
freedom and then we tieourselves into the center of the
spider web where everything hasto connect to us.
Yeah, and one of the thingsthat I have loved about you is
that you are never ending inyour pursuit of what you wanted
when you started 9-2 Media, andit's been an honor, and
(24:08):
continues to be, to work withyou and help you take those
steps and see you hit thosebenchmarks toward that goal.
You're a learner, james.
You're constantly learning.
You're constantly growing fromso many different places.
I'm just curious is there abook that has made a big
difference in your journey?
James Donovan (24:25):
The Slight Edge.
I don't know if I mentionedthat last time when I was on,
but I would say the Slight Edgeand I actually I need to get
back to reading moreconsistently.
It's something I've kind of letslip through the cracks.
So this is a good reminder.
But I would say the slight edgeand just you're.
You're either constantlyimproving, even if it's a
(24:46):
percent day by day, or you'reyou're constantly, I guess, not
improving, going, going down apercent, but you're never just
remaining stagnant.
So that I remember reading acouple of years ago.
It'd probably be worth readingagain as a refresher but just
the reminder that even athousand steps outside a day,
(25:09):
that's better than zero.
Working out for 30 minutes isbetter than none.
Putting 30 minutes in of workon the computer, whatever it is,
even if it's micro, it's stillpushing you in a better
direction than if you didn't doit, so true.
Dr. Wiliam Attaway (25:24):
You're either growing or you're gliding
toward irrelevance.
James Donovan (25:28):
Yes, that's said much more eloquently than I've
mentioned before.
Dr. Wiliam Attaway (25:33):
No, I mean, you said it.
You know who wants to bestagnant, right?
I mean, that is not anyone'sgoal that I've ever met anyway.
And yet so often we allow thedrift, but you never drift into
excellence.
James, this has been so good tohave you back on the show and
hear about your new book and howyou are helping business owners
really all over North Americato step toward their goals,
(25:59):
helping them to see theirbusinesses grow in some pretty
amazing ways.
So if people want to continueto learn from you and I know
they will and find out moreinformation about you, what you
do and about the book, what'sthe best way for them to do that
?
James Donovan (26:14):
Best way, either connect on LinkedIn or just find
us online.
92mediacom,n-i-n-e-t-w-o-m-e-d-i-acom.
Would love to have aconversation, try to help out
however I can.
And if I'm not the best person,or our team's not the best, to
answer those questions for you,I do feel grateful or fortunate
(26:35):
enough that I have a massivenetwork of other marketing
companies that I'd be more thanhappy to send you in that
direction.
Dr. Wiliam Attaway (26:42):
Love that.
We'll have all those links inthe show notes as well as a link
to Booked Solid James.
Thanks for being on the show.
James Donovan (26:50):
Thank you so much , Will, and this was great.
I'm so excited today to have James
Donovan back on the podcast.
James, no stranger around here,is the founder of Nine2 Media.
He's a trusted growth partnerfor B2B firms in the accounting
and finance space.
James works with fractionalCFOs, tax planning firms and
other professional serviceproviders to build full funnel
(00:20):
client acquisition systemscombining outbound content, paid
ads and smart positioning todrive real revenue.
He has helped hundreds of firmsgrow past referral plateaus and
unlock consistent pipelineswithout relying on hacks or
bloated agency retainers.
James is also the author of thenew book Booked Solid Marketing
(00:45):
Strategies for Accounting Firms, and today he's here to share
what is actually working in B2Bmarketing right now.
James, so good to see you.
James Donovan (00:56):
Thanks for being on the show Thanks for having me
back, William, and for thewonderful introduction.
Dr. Wiliam Attaway (01:01):
I'm excited about this conversation and I
can't wait to hear what you'regoing to share this time around.
James Donovan (01:05):
Awesome.
Well, let's get right into it.
Intro/Outro (01:10):
Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the
podcast designed to help leadersintentionally grow and thrive.
Here is your host author andleadership and executive coach,
dr William Attaway.
Dr. Wiliam Attaway (01:27):
For those of our listeners who didn't hear
your first episode a couple ofseasons ago, I'd love for you to
share a little bit of yourstory.
Remind them of your background,particularly your journey and
your development as a leader.
How'd you get started?
James Donovan (01:47):
I got started by getting laid off from a
corporate job where I wasselling ad space on adult sites.
I did that for yeah, so I'llleave it at that.
We can let everyone paint thepicture.
So I got started about five anda half years ago.
When I was laid off, I saw anad on Facebook about starting a
digital marketing company.
Get five clients at two grand,make 10K super easy.
Intro/Outro (02:13):
Well, I bought into that idea, and it's not that
easy.
James Donovan (02:14):
It's actually a lot harder, or it's been way
harder for me at least.
Maybe it's super easy for otherpeople.
But along that journey therewas I mean, I'm still very much
on it, but trying to figure outone how to run a business,
trying to figure out one how torun a business, how to fulfill
for clients, how to get clientsof your own.
It was I was selling stuff forother businesses before and that
was fine because you could alsojust turn off your brain at 5
(02:36):
PM at night and you didn't haveto think about it.
But one of the biggestchallenges and it's still a
challenge, but in a differentway is really the management of
team members.
That I feel like I've made alot of progress in the last two
years, I would say.
But that was, hands down, thebiggest obstacle that I face and
(02:58):
continue to still face.
I find it really easy to go outand be creative to get clients,
and here's how we can deliver.
But it's finding team membersto come in, establishing trust
with them, relying on them,giving them enough room on their
own.
So you're not micromanaging,but knowing when to step in,
knowing when to provide theencouragement or when you have
(03:21):
to be a little bit more stricton.
This is the way things are done, so that's been a balancing act
.
Working with you has been ahuge benefit in learning, kind
of developing that muscle.
But that to me has kind of beenthe biggest Achilles heel over
the last five and a half years.
Dr. Wiliam Attaway (03:41):
You know.
That's so often, I think, thecase, because when you start a
business, you start it becauseyou're good at providing a
product or a service in yourcase, marketing, right, I mean,
you're good at that.
You know how to do that.
As you find success, though,you have to hire people to help
you with fulfillment, and thenyou have to lead those people.
That's a different skill set.
It's been really neat to be apart of your journey and
(04:03):
watching you grow and develop asa leader and building something
that is not just for the moment, but something that is
sustainable and healthy, and Ithink that is so important if
you want to last, if you want tobuild something long term, as
you have done that.
You've picked up some thingsalong the way, I'm sure, just
(04:23):
like we all do.
What's your biggest learningthese days about leading your
team?
James Donovan (04:29):
To really trust the individuals that you have on
your team.
They're there for a reason,that's good, so trust them to do
the work.
I like that.
It sounds simple, it soundsobvious.
It's.
It's a lot harder, I think, attimes to actually practice that
and to really just trust.
(04:51):
But, um, I'm really happy withthe team I have in place right
now.
It's taken a long time to toget here and have this solid
core and it's it's hard to findthe other hires to mesh into
what I feel we have.
But I'm really, as of late,just trying to 100% kind of step
(05:11):
away and let the team do thetasks that they were hired to do
.
Otherwise, what's the point ofhaving them on the team if
you're just going to keepjumping in Because then you're
not, then I'm not in the areas Ineed to be in to help out our
team.
Dr. Wiliam Attaway (05:25):
You know, I just heard something a few days
ago that really fascinated me.
Most people think that whensomebody leaves a team, when you
have a team member go somewhereelse, that it's because of
money.
That's the number one answer.
In fact, I think it was 89% ofbusiness owners say that when a
team member leaves, it's overmoney.
They get more money somewhereelse.
What is absolutely fascinatingis the study that I was reading.
(05:48):
It was done over 450,000respondents, so this is not a
small study Over 450,000respondents.
The number one reason why peopleleave number one reason 79% of
people who leave leave for thisreason it's not money, it's that
they don't feel like their bossappreciates them and the work
(06:09):
that they do.
Wow, it blew me away.
Yeah, like we think it's money,but business owners think it's
money, so we're all you know.
Oh, all right, here's anotherlittle bit, here's another,
here's another.
That's not it at all, it'sappreciation.
Now, appreciation can bereflected, of course.
If you're underpaying somebody,you should work on that, but
the reality is appreciation isnot something that's on the
(06:33):
radar of a lot of people, and Ihave watched you step into that
and step into that leadershiprole of communicating that
appreciation in multiple ways,not just by saying hey, good job
, which, by the way, is one ofthe worst ways to show
appreciation, because you saygood job to your dog, you know
that's just not a great plan,like, don't do that.
(06:55):
So there's multiple ways tocommunicate appreciation and
I've loved watching you do thatas you have grown and stepped
into that leadership role.
You just wrote a book and afterreading it I have to tell you
this is really well done, book'ssolid.
Why did you write this book?
I mean, there's bookseverywhere.
I've got most of them.
No, just kidding, but, like youknow, like, why did you write
(07:17):
this one a?
James Donovan (07:17):
vehicle.
That's longer form content.
It's hard to get all of thatacross in a post on LinkedIn or
an article that you mightpublish on LinkedIn, so why not
(07:40):
sit down and take the time toreally pour all of it out into a
platform that, if someone wantsto sit down and read it and
they want to benefit theirbusiness, grow their firm now
they have 170 pages to do that.
It's not just an article thatmight take two minutes to read
on LinkedIn, because that's notreally getting into the depths
(08:00):
of what needs to be done.
And I feel very confident withthe strategies put into this
book that if someone reads itcover to cover, they will be
able to, you know, get moreexposure online and generate new
business through onlinemarketing.
Dr. Wiliam Attaway (08:17):
That's good.
When I read this, one of thethings I loved about this was
that you are very clear inspeaking to the actual needs of
business owners in theaccounting space.
You're not just blowing smokeat people and you're not giving
them this high level stuff thatwell, that sounds great, but how
do I do that?
(08:38):
You're actually diving into theweeds.
You're actually diving in andsaying, hey, here's some stuff
you can do to move the needle.
So let me ask you you're theexpert what is the best way for
accounting firm owners, forthese business owners, to
generate qualified sales leadsand opportunities?
James Donovan (08:58):
There's a handful of ways, but the first one I
would say that I go into a lotof depth in the book and what
I'll be speaking about atGrowCon next week.
It's an accounting conference.
It's being visible on Google.
Accounting conference is beingvisible on Google.
It's where people, it's whereyour customers, are looking to
find you or to find a service.
That happens to be what you canprovide.
(09:21):
And I always use the analogy ofthe plumber.
If your sink or toilet breaksat home, assuming you don't know
how to fix it, you're probablynot going on Facebook hoping
that a friend of a friend madean organic post about how they
fix toilets.
Or you're probably not textingsomebody to say, hey, do you
happen to know anybody who mightfix toilets?
I got water leaking everywhere.
(09:42):
No, you're going to Google andyou're searching plumber near me
.
It's no different in theaccounting world or whatever
industry you're in.
People are going to Google.
They want to find a solution.
They're already problem awareand now it's just a matter of do
you have reviews there to buildtheir trust?
Do you have some picturesposted to show that you're real
(10:02):
and do you have a phone numberpeople can reach you at?
If you have those in place,you're going to get way more
calls than if you don't.
There's a lot more you can doafter, but like just that core
than if you don't.
There's a lot more you can doafter, but like just that core.
Be visible where people aresearching for you.
It's not on.
I don't even know what all theother directories are.
People are going to Google.
That's where they're searching.
(10:24):
So, being listed on you know,angie's List or Better Business
Bureau, all these spots Okay,that's great, but when was the
last time you looked there for aservice when you're in need?
Solid point.
Dr. Wiliam Attaway (10:36):
You know, I sometimes hear business owners
who are like yeah, I get it.
Everybody talks about theGoogle business profile.
I get it.
Yeah, I don't know if I needthat or not.
You hear somebody say that, youoverhear somebody saying that.
What is your first gut response?
James Donovan (10:52):
to that.
You ever hear somebody say that.
What is your first gut responseto that?
Well, it's free, so why not?
Matt Clapp actually said this tome at one of the intensives
that we were at.
I was asking him you know, I'mposting on these different
platforms but I'm not posting onTikTok.
I don't feel like my audienceis hanging out there and he's
(11:19):
like how much does it cost tohave a TikTok account?
And then I, you know, I kind ofended the conversation.
So to the same point and I meanI would argue even further that
definitely be on Google.
Because, yes, tiktok can beused as a search engine, but
people are probably going toGoogle first.
So not to discredit Matt at all, because he obviously knows
what he's doing, it's a verysuccessful company.
But if it's free to be on aspot and it's not a lot of
(11:44):
legwork to put up the content,especially with all the tools
now where you link everythingtogether and submit once and it
goes on all of the channels, whynot?
You're putting yourself behindthe eight ball by not doing that
.
Dr. Wiliam Attaway (11:59):
Well said, so say somebody's listening and
their firm has slowly beengrowing mostly referrals, and
they've got a Google businessprofile.
I mean, it may not be anythingto write home about, but they've
got one.
How can they improve it?
What are some things they needto think about and focus?
James Donovan (12:20):
on Get as many reviews as possible.
Reviews are an incredible wayto build that know like trust
factor with people who don'tknow like or trust you.
It's good.
Accounting firms, taxprofessionals, bookkeepers are
(12:43):
coming out of arguably the besttime of the year to get reviews
just tax season.
Every single person that theyfiled a tax return for gave
financial advice to, whatever itis.
They should be sending them aGoogle review link and saying,
hey, would you mind leaving us areview?
The average accounting firm inthe US has 10 reviews on Google.
That's just average.
Dr. Wiliam Attaway (13:02):
I bet they get more than 10 returns this
year.
James Donovan (13:04):
Yeah, so and again.
I'm going to be speaking aboutthis in Utah with the event, but
I'm sure all the accountingfirms could take a look at their
book of business and find 10,15 people that they worked with
in the last 90 days and ask fora Google review and skyrocket
over just being average.
Dr. Wiliam Attaway (13:26):
So good.
You work with a lot of peoplewho are talking to you and other
agencies and trying to decidewho should I go with, and I know
this is the age-old dilemma ofbusiness owners.
I mean, I'm sure you, likeeverybody else, we get pitched
all the time.
You know people sliding up intoour DMs on LinkedIn and
(13:46):
Facebook.
It's so common and soconsistent when somebody is
talking to you and they say,okay, yeah, but what makes 9to
different?
What makes 9to Media differentthan every other marketing
company?
Like, why should I choose youguys?
What is your unique proposition?
James Donovan (14:08):
I normally ask them how they got in touch with
us and then I say we'llimplement that system in your
business.
Intro/Outro (14:14):
so either they came through.
James Donovan (14:17):
They came through google because they were
searching for a marketingcompany, or they were searching
online and our articles poppedup because they're all seo
optimized.
Or they came through one of ourads on facebook, or they
responded to our message onlinkedin and I say you're here,
so why don't we just implementwhat got you here, but into your
(14:38):
business?
Dr. Wiliam Attaway (14:38):
That's so good.
It's so simple and so good.
I love that.
James Donovan (14:49):
Most of the time people, they're like, okay, yeah
, that makes a lot of sense.
Sometimes they're stillcomically like, oh, I don't know
if it would work for mybusiness.
I'm like, okay, well, againyou're here.
So I feel like that, you knowthat says enough Worked with you
.
Yeah, I mean that's one way, butI don't know A lot of people
(15:11):
can say this as well.
I know our team and myself wetake a lot of people can say
this as well.
I, I, I know our team andmyself.
We take a lot of pride in whowe work with and really want
everyone we work with to win,and it's not, they're not just a
number to us.
We know everyone's name, weknow about their business,
what's going on in their lives,and I want to see them win,
because the more they win, thebetter off, like they'll take
(15:31):
care of our business if we justtake care of them.
They'll take care of ourbusiness If we just take care of
them, they'll take care of usin return.
Dr. Wiliam Attaway (15:35):
I think that is a differentiator, not that
the first one's not, but I thinkthe second one matters.
You said earlier you know theknow, like and trust factor.
You know, we know, that peopledo business with people, that
they know like and trust, and wewant to be known as well, you
know, as customers, as clients,and I think that offering that
(15:57):
as part of who you are and howyou operate is what makes your
retention go up.
I think that's why clientsstick with you, because they
feel known and they feel valued.
You know, part of showingsomebody value is knowing them,
knowing about them, and I thinkthat's what you guys do and I
think that's why you're seeingthe results that you're seeing.
James Donovan (16:17):
I appreciate that we're we're trying.
There's always room to improve,like anything, but I think
that's also been a bigdifferentiator in the last
couple of years compared to thefirst couple of years.
That's good.
Dr. Wiliam Attaway (16:29):
So somebody looks at what you're doing and
they say, okay, the Googlebusiness profile, I got
something like that.
But I feel like I should bedoing some ads.
I feel like I should kind of dosome outbound stuff.
Try to get some people callingIf an accounting firm comes to
you and they're like, hey, Ithink we're ready for that step.
And I've heard of these localservice ads.
(16:51):
I've heard Facebook ads andGoogle ads.
It's just all overwhelmingRight.
Where do they start.
James Donovan (16:57):
It's a great question.
I would probably get them toask the question of where do you
want to be bringing in newclients?
Do you want them in yourbackyard or are you trying to go
nationwide right away?
And also, what's your budget?
What's your appetite for paidads?
If you're just getting started,I would suggest local service
ads.
It's a pay per call model.
(17:18):
So what that means is unlikeFacebook, where you're paying
every single day to have your addisplayed and maybe you're
getting results, maybe you'renot.
Local service ads is reallyfriendly to businesses getting
started because if your phonedoesn't ring doesn't cost you
anything and you get very highintent leads because the person
who's on the other end of thephone calling you they're
(17:41):
already looking for the solutionyou have to offer.
Unlike Facebook ads that workreally well, but Facebook ads
you're trying to almost convinceor poke at the pain that you
know your audience may have andget them to take action.
Where local service ads,they're searching for you for
that solution.
Dr. Wiliam Attaway (18:01):
Oh, that's good.
I think the expertise is whypeople come to you, james.
I think this world isoverwhelming and we all have the
curse of knowledge in our areaswhere we have spent the time
and the expertise to sharpen oursaws and get good at something.
People don't know marketing.
They know accounting in thisworld, right, they're really
(18:23):
good at that.
I don't want to know accountingpersonally.
That's why I have an accountant.
I don't want to learn the taxcode, right, and I think for
them to understand that, justlike they are an expert in their
field, you are an expert inyour field.
Talk about some of the peoplethat you've worked with.
What are some examples ofclients that you have helped to
(18:44):
get the results that they'reafter?
James Donovan (18:47):
Yeah, a really big win that we're excited about
.
That is pretty recent.
One of our clients, sean, inTexas.
We were implementing GoogleMaps, google Business Profile,
local service ads for him,implementing, you know, google
Maps, google Business Profile,local service ads for him.
Within about 49 days ofreceiving inbound calls and
(19:08):
tweaking the types of calls hewanted to receive, dialing in
the services that he offers,refining how we qualify those
leads, he was able to close Ithink it was around 125K of new
business in that first 49 days,Probably like 30 grand or so
cash collected.
Wow.
So that's again just fromreceiving inbound calls of
(19:31):
people who are searching for theservices he offers.
It works so well but it doestake a bit of time.
There is some work that goesinto it.
It's not you just set it up andyou run with it.
There is work, otherwise itwouldn't work so well and
everyone would be doing it.
But when you run the systemproperly and you have the right
pieces in place, the results canbe massive.
(19:54):
That's a pretty big win, Ithink.
Dr. Wiliam Attaway (20:02):
I don't think there's too many
businesses that would turn away$125,000 in 50 days Not shabby.
I love that man.
You know you're a businessowner and your team and your
clients, your business, needsyou to lead at a higher level
today than they did three, four,five years ago.
That same thing is going to betrue three, four, five years
(20:24):
from now.
So how do you stay on top ofyour game as the business owner,
as the leader?
How do you level up with thenew leadership skills that your
team and your clients and yourbusiness are going to need you
to have in the days ahead?
James Donovan (20:35):
Yeah, that's a great question.
I'm heavily invested intodifferent masterminds one-on-one
coaching with yourself.
That's a game changer, asfoolish as it may sound.
With utilizing Instagram, I tryto when I'm maybe mindlessly
scrolling at times, make sureI'm following accounts that do
(20:57):
provide a ton of value and savethose reels and go back and
rewatch those things and sharenotes inside of Slack with
myself that, okay, I want toimplement this.
But definitely attendingmasterminds with being around
others who are significantlyfurther ahead, those who are at
the same space as you, those whoare aspiring to be where you're
(21:18):
at, that is incredible, yeah.
And then the private coachinghaving others to bounce those
ideas off, of hear what'sworking, what's not working,
someone to identify hey, you'rekind of going off into a ditch
like course correct a bit.
That's what I focus on, so good.
Dr. Wiliam Attaway (21:37):
As you think about your business and the
track that you have seen inthese last years, you know from
the beginning and you thinkabout where you want to go from
here.
So often as business owners, welook at the obstacles, we look
at what the challenges are andwhat's in the way, what's going
wrong.
I want to key into that forjust a second.
(22:00):
Most often I tell people focuson what's going right, but
there's times you need toidentify the problem.
If I could, with a magic wand,take it and wave it and solve
one big problem for 9-2 Media,what would you like that problem
to?
James Donovan (22:16):
be.
I'll give you two, because thefirst one's probably more
comical and's it's getting a usbusiness credit card.
Being a canadian, canadianregistered business, that has
been one of the biggestheadaches, oh my goodness, um.
So yeah, that's big.
If you could help with the oldcredit card and you know
cross-border banking stuff,william that'd be great if I had
(22:40):
the magic wand yeah, um,outside of that, I would.
it's I think it's still justimproving the muscle to really
like step away from theday-to-day operations.
I I feel like there's someweeks I do a really good job
(23:02):
with that and I rely on the teamand they do great, and then I
just I find myself because it'scomfortable getting back into it
and trying to make microadjustments or providing
feedback when I know where mytime is better spent to help
grow the business and help theother team members.
But I find myself going backthere, whether it's a case of it
(23:26):
seems like it's busy work andit's filling the calendar and
maybe subconsciously it's likeokay, well, you're busy all week
, so that's why you keep goingback.
That would be, I would say, themagic wand piece of just like
you're never back in there andeverything is going to be fine
without you.
It's good.
Dr. Wiliam Attaway (23:44):
So so often we start a business because we
want freedom right Locationfreedom, financial freedom, time
freedom and then we tieourselves into the center of the
spider web where everything hasto connect to us.
Yeah, and one of the thingsthat I have loved about you is
that you are never ending inyour pursuit of what you wanted
when you started 9-2 Media, andit's been an honor, and
(24:08):
continues to be, to work withyou and help you take those
steps and see you hit thosebenchmarks toward that goal.
You're a learner, james.
You're constantly learning.
You're constantly growing fromso many different places.
I'm just curious is there abook that has made a big
difference in your journey?
James Donovan (24:25):
The Slight Edge.
I don't know if I mentionedthat last time when I was on,
but I would say the Slight Edgeand I actually I need to get
back to reading moreconsistently.
It's something I've kind of letslip through the cracks.
So this is a good reminder.
But I would say the slight edgeand just you're.
You're either constantlyimproving, even if it's a
(24:46):
percent day by day, or you'reyou're constantly, I guess, not
improving, going, going down apercent, but you're never just
remaining stagnant.
So that I remember reading acouple of years ago.
It'd probably be worth readingagain as a refresher but just
the reminder that even athousand steps outside a day,
(25:09):
that's better than zero.
Working out for 30 minutes isbetter than none.
Putting 30 minutes in of workon the computer, whatever it is,
even if it's micro, it's stillpushing you in a better
direction than if you didn't doit, so true.
Dr. Wiliam Attaway (25:24):
You're either growing or you're gliding
toward irrelevance.
James Donovan (25:28):
Yes, that's said much more eloquently than I've
mentioned before.
Dr. Wiliam Attaway (25:33):
No, I mean, you said it.
You know who wants to bestagnant, right?
I mean, that is not anyone'sgoal that I've ever met anyway.
And yet so often we allow thedrift, but you never drift into
excellence.
James, this has been so good tohave you back on the show and
hear about your new book and howyou are helping business owners
really all over North Americato step toward their goals,
(25:59):
helping them to see theirbusinesses grow in some pretty
amazing ways.
So if people want to continueto learn from you and I know
they will and find out moreinformation about you, what you
do and about the book, what'sthe best way for them to do that
?
James Donovan (26:14):
Best way, either connect on LinkedIn or just find
us online.
92mediacom,n-i-n-e-t-w-o-m-e-d-i-acom.
Would love to have aconversation, try to help out
however I can.
And if I'm not the best person,or our team's not the best, to
answer those questions for you,I do feel grateful or fortunate
(26:35):
enough that I have a massivenetwork of other marketing
companies that I'd be more thanhappy to send you in that
direction.
Dr. Wiliam Attaway (26:42):
Love that.
We'll have all those links inthe show notes as well as a link
to Booked Solid James.
Thanks for being on the show.
James Donovan (26:50):
Thank you so much , Will, and this was great.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.