August 5, 2025 • 30 mins
You’ve scaled your agency — but now you’re carrying too much, spinning too many plates, and wondering how to grow without grinding harder.
In this episode, I’m joined by Lindsey Busfield, VP at Optimize My Firm and host of The Personal Injury Marketing Minute. Lindsey is a leading voice in legal SEO — but what makes this conversation essential for high-performing agency leaders isn’t SEO strategy... it’s how she built a sustainable agency growth model by stepping back from burnout, clarifying her strengths, and structuring a team around what actually works.
We talk about team design that fuels performance, how to stop being the bottleneck, and the systems she used to scale from a small operation to a nationally respected SEO firm — all without selling her soul to the hustle.
If you’re ready to build with clarity, create capacity without chaos, and grow in a way that lasts, this conversation is your blueprint.
📚 Books Mentioned
- Bad Kitty by Nick Bruel
- Pete the Cat by James Dean and Eric Litwin
- InvestiGators by John Patrick Green
To learn more about Lindsey and her work, visit OptimizeMyFirm.com or connect with her directly at lindsay@optimizemyfirm.com. You can also check out her podcast, The Personal Injury Marketing Minute, recognized by Attorney at Law Magazine as one of the best legal podcasts of 2025.
Join Dr. William Attaway on the Catalytic Leadership podcast as he shares transformative insights to help high-performance entrepreneurs and agency owners achieve Clear-Minded Focus, Calm Control, and Confidence.
- Free 30-Minute Discovery Call:
Ready to elevate your business? Book a free 30-minute discovery call with Dr. William Attaway and start your journey to success.
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Connect with Dr. William Attaway:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. William Attaway (00:00):
I'm so excited today to have Lindsay
Busfield on the podcast.
Lindsay is one of the leadingSEO experts in legal SEO and
content marketing.
As the vice president atOptimize my Firm, busfield is
behind some of the nation's mostpowerful law firm websites.
While a dozen or so SEOagencies can tout the same
(00:21):
accomplishments, busfield hasbecome an industry disruptor by
revolutionizing the client-lawfirm relationship.
Rather than locking clients inwith long-term contracts and
over-promising results in time,busfield's company has
completely done away withcontracts which attorneys
(00:42):
surprisingly love.
Busfield is also the host ofher own podcast, the Personal
Injury Marketing Minute, whichhas been applauded as one of the
best legal podcasts of 2025 byAttorney at Law magazine.
Outside of business, lindsay isan avid pickleball player.
She loves discussing how thesport fosters a unique sense of
(01:04):
community, its impact on mentalwell-being and why it's rapidly
becoming one of the fastestgrowing sports in the country.
Lindsay, I'm so glad you'rehere.
Thanks for being on the show.
Lindsey Busfield (01:15):
Thank you so much for having me Excited to be
here.
Intro (01:20):
Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the podcast designed
to help leaders intentionallygrow and thrive.
Here is your host author andleadership and executive coach,
dr William Attaway.
Dr. William Attaway (01:38):
I can't wait to dive in and hear more of
your story.
So let's, let's start there.
I'd love for you to share someof that with our listeners,
particularly around your journeyand your development as a
leader.
How did you get started?
Lindsey Busfield (01:52):
So I had a very similar background to a lot
of the attorneys that I workwith, actually.
So my undergraduate degree wasin philosophy from Center
College in Kentucky, and with aphilosophy degree there's a
couple of options.
You can either go become alawyer or you can go become a
barista, and I became a barista.
(02:16):
I wasn't quite sure that Ireally wanted to become a lawyer
yet and make that biginvestment and just wasn't
really sure what I wanted to dowith my life.
So I went the Starbucks routeand while at Starbucks I decided
to go get my teaching licensebecause I thought I wanted to
grow up and be a teacher andbecame a high school English
(02:40):
teacher and quickly realizedthat that was not the right
choice.
So I did that for about fiveyears and loved teaching, loved
the kids, but, as we all know,kind of the politics that are in
the education system right nownot the easiest.
So while I was teaching, myparents were busy building an
(03:00):
egg company with chicken eggsfrom their backyard flock of
chickens and whilesimultaneously running a bed and
breakfast, and they would usethe backyard chicken eggs to
feed the guests at the bed andbreakfast and they realized that
these were the best eggs thatthey had ever had and it was
because the chickens wereactually running outside and
doing chicken things and eatinggrass and bugs and being happy.
(03:21):
So they started an egg businessthat became a pasture raised
egg company and was one of thefirst pasture raised egg
companies in the nation and Ihad the opportunity to leave
teaching and go help them growthis business and help them with
marketing and special projectsand compliance as they partnered
(03:43):
with Amish chicken farms in thearea.
So my role transitioned veryquickly from teaching to driving
up and down the East Coastvisiting Amish chicken farms and
making sure that their organiccertification was intact and
that their humane animal welfarecertifications were taken care
of.
And that kind of took over mylife and so I was busy building
(04:08):
the compliance program for thisstartup egg company and putting
in the infrastructure for thatand scaffolding it as it grew
from one barn to now a companythat has over a million hens at
farms all across the country.
So that was really my firsttaste of building an
organization and really buildingmy own program as a leader,
(04:32):
learning as I went what had tohappen and what had to be put in
place to make this grow and besustainable.
And then from there I startedtraveling about 70% of the time
doing audits, and that reallywasn't where I wanted to be with
my life.
I was still, you know, prettyyoung, had just gotten married,
wanted to have kids.
What parts of this do I hateand how can I really hone my
(05:04):
skill set and develop a careerin the path that really
resonates with what I'mpassionate about?
So I decided to essentiallystart from scratch.
Realizing that I love themarketing and creativity, I took
a temp job at a law firm intheir marketing department, just
so that I could learn theabsolute basics of what
(05:26):
marketing entailed in a fieldthat, in the legal industry,
that I had already had someinterest in because of my
philosophy background.
So long story short, short storylong.
I worked for this company, thislaw firm in downtown Raleigh.
I said yes to helping withtheir SEO initiative because
(05:47):
nobody really had time for thatand found that I loved SEO
because it married thecreativity and the writing from
my English background and itforced me to solve problems and
be competitive from growing asmall business.
I was able to pull in from that.
I also have my projectmanagement certificate, and so
(06:09):
it was project management and itwas marrying together all of
these things that I was alreadypassionate about into this one
really weird niche of marketingfor law firms, and so that's
kind of the story of how I gotput into this really weird,
unique world and then, byblessing, was able to meet my
(06:30):
now business partner, len, andwe have since been growing
Optimize my Firm doing SEO forlaw firms.
Dr. William Attaway (06:36):
Amazing.
You know I have heard a lot ofstories, you know, on this show
and beyond, of how people movedinto marketing, how they got
into that place.
I think yours is one of myfavorite stories, you know.
I don't think I have ever heardof a story that got there via
chickens.
I think that's fantastic andI'm never going to forget that.
(06:59):
Now.
You know, there is no wastedexperience, and this is
something that I talk with whenI speak, when I talk with
clients.
I believe every part of yourjourney is important because it
made you who you are.
You know and Optimize.
My Firm is specifically focusedon the legal field, so what is
it exactly that you do for yourclients?
Lindsey Busfield (07:21):
So what we do is very simple and yet very
complicated.
So all we do is SEO for lawfirms, and most of our clients
are personal injury attorneys.
We have a handful that are indifferent legal sectors, but
what we do is SEO, and what thatmeans is we develop content for
their websites, and so thisgoes beyond, like the basic
(07:44):
blogs that are never going torank anywhere, that are like
what should you do after anaccident?
Like all that stuff is justboring and been written 10,000
times.
So what we do is we developcontent for pages or their
website that targets specificcase types that an attorney
might be looking for, or targeta specific circumstance that
somebody might be in as they'relooking for an attorney.
(08:06):
For example, most personalinjury attorneys are looking for
motor vehicle accidents andthat those are the bread and
butter cases that they arewanting to attract.
So we develop content all aboutmotor vehicle accidents.
So, for example, car accidents,car accident attorney in XYZ
city or hit and run accidents inXYZ city.
(08:29):
We develop a hierarchy ofcontent that starts at the basic
type of motor vehicle accidentand then gets a little bit more
granular with every sub pagethat targets specific case types
or questions that somebodymight have after an accident, or
resources that somebody mightneed, and then all of that leads
to them hiring that attorney.
(08:50):
So that's one major part ofwhat we do.
Another thing that we do is wesource backlinks for the
websites.
Backlinks for those who areunfamiliar with the term are
ways that you get your websitementioned by another website
that's credible.
That way, your website has alittle bit more authority.
So that's how Google decides ifthey have two equal pieces of
(09:11):
content, whichever piece ofcontent has better backlinks,
google's going to rank that sitehigher.
So a big part of our effort isgetting quality content as well
as the backlinks to that content, so that Google pairs those
together and ranks it well whensomebody is looking for an
attorney or has a question aboutthe type of case that they have
(09:32):
.
And then the other part of theSEO is working with Google
Business Profile to make surethat that's optimized correctly.
We help give our clients someguidance on things that they can
do internally to get reviewsand establish themselves as a
great law firm in their area andattracting clients to them
specifically.
Dr. William Attaway (09:52):
It sounds incredibly useful and like
something most attorneys are nottrained to do, and it's a bit
overwhelming, I imagine, forthem as they look at this and
think, yeah, I see that I needto do it, but my goodness, and
now, with the rise of AI, like,how does that play into SEO?
Lindsey Busfield (10:11):
So AI actually makes SEO incredibly important,
because AI isn't just pullingtheir answers from nowhere.
They're pulling their answersfrom content that's already out
there, and so when you have yourAI snippet come up and answer a
question, you have exactly thewebsites that they're using to
generate that information andit's essentially like getting an
(10:33):
additional layer of freeadvertising if AI is pulling
from your website.
So a lot of people have concernsabout traffic to their website
dropping because of AI.
Lot of people have concernsabout traffic to their website
dropping because of AI, butreally it's not making that much
of a difference to their bottomline, because if somebody is
just asking this question to geta basic answer, like what is
(10:55):
the statute of limitations for acar accident in Minnesota,
that's not necessarily somethingthat's going to be driving them
to hire an attorney, but it'sjust going to be during their
research process.
If somebody is actively lookingfor an attorney, they're going
to be using search terms, foryou know where's a car accident
lawyer near me and they're stillgoing to navigate to that
(11:16):
attorney's website from that andnot just find what they're
looking for necessarily in thatAI snippet.
But it is incredibly importantto be developing the content and
getting your website to rank sothat you have more of a better
chance of getting somevisibility in that AI section
itself.
Dr. William Attaway (11:33):
And that's where you come in.
Lindsey Busfield (11:34):
And that's where I come in.
Dr. William Attaway (11:36):
I love that .
You know, you have started overa couple of times, you know,
and as you have done that, Iwould imagine there is something
internally that has to happenin you to be able to adapt and
to pivot and to deal with thevery real ego that we all have
(11:58):
when we start to hear thatinternal monologue, that voice
telling us you should bewherever by now you should be.
You know, like how did younavigate that as you have gone
through the journey that youhave been on?
Lindsey Busfield (12:14):
I would love to say that I navigated it with
grace and poise and a bigpicture, you know.
But no, there were a lot oftears and there was a lot of
panic and it was a very realhuman experience going from even
starting graduating collegegoing.
I have no idea what I'm goingto do with my life, because I
(12:35):
don't know what the options aregoing to do with my life.
Because I don't know what theoptions are and I think that
there's a lot of opportunity tohelp college graduates, or soon
to be college graduates, figureout that next step, because
there was a major panic attackand thank God there were
Starbucks, because I got healthinsurance and free coffee and
that is a great catalyst to helpget you to the next level,
that's true.
But then it's going in toteaching and realizing.
(12:59):
You know, I'm creative in someways and I love teaching in
other ways, but didn'tnecessarily have the support
that I needed to really navigatethe uh, the infrastructure
there, and I had a lot ofstudent debt because I had just
gone to school and I had justgotten my teaching license and
that's a lot of money, and so Ihave to be faced with the
(13:21):
reality that if I don't get outnow, I'm probably never going to
get out.
I'm going to be a not so greatteacher, which isn't helping
anybody.
But I also have to face thefact that I have this other
problem that I need to solvewhile I'm moving forward, and
that's another panic attack.
But I took the steps and I didit because I knew that that was
(13:42):
right for me, and then I had tostart over again and figure out
okay, well, I have some supportin my parents, who have built
businesses before.
I need to trust their guidanceand have a little bit of
humility, because they are myparents and I have to go from
realizing I don't know more thanthey do to maybe they know a
little bit more than I do inthis.
(14:02):
Don't ever tell my mother Isaid that.
Dr. William Attaway (14:06):
I'll keep that on the DL.
Lindsey Busfield (14:08):
But going in and having to learn from scratch
and learn to be okay withmaking mistakes, and that
everybody does it.
And I think that there is thislayer that we put on this coat
of saying that I need to be thebest at this, going into it
immediately and I need to knowall of this immediately.
(14:29):
And after I started over andstarted over and started over, I
realized that we're allfronting that and everybody
deals with this inferioritycomplex to some degree and that
it's okay to not know everythingon day one.
Life gives you on-the-jobtraining and if you can be okay
(14:52):
with saying I don't know, butI'll find out, that is the key
to opening up any door to anyopportunity that you want.
Dr. William Attaway (15:00):
I love that that.
What a phenomenally excellentmindset.
I just have to call that outbecause I think that teachable
spirit that you're going intothis with not putting on the
posturing that you know at all,that you've got to be excellent
from day one.
Who is excellent at riding abike the first time they get on?
I've never seen that person yet.
Lindsey Busfield (15:21):
I'm still not great at it, I'm not.
Dr. William Attaway (15:24):
I've been on one in so long, I can't even
imagine how bad that would be.
The reality is, we have tolearn and by maintaining that
teachable posture internally, bymaking that choice, we set
ourselves up for a much morehealthy and sustainable pace and
much more right-sizedexpectations of ourselves and, I
(15:46):
think, of the people around us.
Lindsey Busfield (15:48):
Yes, and if we can have the right expectations
of ourselves, we're notover-promising to the people
that we are obligated to, andthat makes a much more organic,
transparent, healthyrelationship, both personally,
professionally and in allaspects of life, and it brings
that anxiety level way down ifyou are honest with yourself, as
(16:09):
well as with others of yourcapabilities, but also have the
right mindset of saying this issomething I want to look into
further and I want to be able tohelp you with this.
I don't necessarily have theanswer right now, but let me get
it for you.
Dr. William Attaway (16:23):
So good With Optimize my Firm fully,
both feet into the marketingworld.
You are very aware that changeis a constant, that this is an
ever-shifting landscape is aconstant, that this is an
ever-shifting landscape.
Has that been a struggle foryou that you can't just like
master this and now you've gotit and you don't have to worry
(16:46):
about it again, but it seemslike every month there's some
shift or some pivot you've gotto make.
Has that been challenging?
Lindsey Busfield (16:53):
It has and it hasn't, because it's actually
kind of a misconception thatwith every algorithm you have to
change course, Because you haveto look at Google's bigger
picture.
What is Google trying to do?
Google is trying to match theirusers with the best, most
relevant, accurate informationpossible.
So if you're already doingthings the right way and putting
(17:16):
accurate, relevant content outon the internet, you don't
really have to change course.
You just have to be creativeand make sure that what you're
doing stands apart from whateverybody else is doing, because
once you do something the rightway, you're going to have a
copycat see that and replicatewhat you've done, and so the
(17:37):
only thing that you need to dois pivot to make sure that what
you are providing to yourclients, what you're providing
to the internet, is creative andhas not been done a thousand
times before and is staying astep or two ahead of the
competition.
Dr. William Attaway (17:53):
That's good .
So let's talk about your growthpattern, your rhythms and your
habits.
Like you know, you have to leadat a higher level today than
you did even a few years ago.
Your team is looking to you tolead, your clients are looking
to you to lead, and that samething is going to be true three,
four or five years from now.
How do you stay on top of yourgame?
(18:16):
How do you level up with thenew skills, the new leadership
skills and marketing skills andeverything else that you're
going to need and your clientsand your team are going to need
you to have in the years to come?
Lindsey Busfield (18:37):
The bigger, most truthful answer is I'm
really lucky.
I have a phenomenal businesspartner who is a great trying to
figure out the word hold on.
He's a great partner for mebecause we balance each other
out and we are a great creativepair together.
So one of us will have an ideaand the other one will build on
(19:00):
it, and then we'll figure outhow to implement this in a way
that makes the most sense, andwith his input and my input,
we're able to come to an answerthat is so much better than
either of us could have come toon our own.
And he is actually one of thebest minds that I have ever
worked with when it comes tolooking at SEO and looking at
(19:22):
strategy.
And he is so discombobulatedwhen it comes to staying
organized that I come in behindand kind of create the
organizational structure, andthen we work together, put it
together, synergize and get itdone, and so we both really have
a solid understanding of whatour strengths are and we also
know how to make up for eachother's weaknesses.
(19:42):
And so by finding a creativepair, somebody that you really
balance well, with, that youcompliment well, you can create
something that's so much biggerthan yourselves.
And then the other piece of itis obviously the team that we
have in place.
So I have a phenomenal team ofwriters, of web developers, of
(20:04):
backlink strategists,communication strategists,
google business profile expertsLike these are all some of the
best minds in the industry andthey all collaborate together to
help build our business, and so, for me, my leadership style is
more supportive.
It's looking at I know that youguys know what you're doing.
(20:25):
You know your stuff.
How can I support you to helpyou build this to the next level
and help you so that your skillsets are maximized and so that
you stay interested and fresh inwhat you're doing?
What kind of professionaldevelopment are you interested
in and how do you want to growas an employee?
Because all of those skillsthat they're picking up along
(20:48):
the way are always going to comeback and benefit our company
and benefit our clients.
So it's really harnessing thestrengths, being aware of the
weaknesses and putting it alltogether to help build something
that is really great andorganically stays ahead of the
curve.
Dr. William Attaway (21:06):
You know a lot of people listening are
thinking man, how did you find apartnership that was such a
great fit Like?
How did you find somebody thatcomplimented like that?
What would you say if they'resitting across the table from
you?
Lindsey Busfield (21:20):
Dumb luck.
Dr. William Attaway (21:25):
That doesn't feel like an actionable
tactical strategy.
I'm just going to be clear.
Lindsey Busfield (21:29):
Not, but it's true.
I was working at the law firmand had been working with their
SEO.
I was working at the law firmand had been working with their
SEO, realized that I loved SEO,but the law firm itself wasn't a
great fit for me.
I had just had a baby.
She needed some extra doctor'sappointments, and driving to
(21:49):
downtown Raleigh from Cary andgoing and making doctor's
appointments it just wasn'tgoing to work.
So I took the skillset from theSEO and decided that I was
going to provide this servicefor other companies, and the law
firm that I was working at wasactually one of the companies
that I helped out.
I was also able to pick up acouple of different partnerships
in the area and it was great.
(22:11):
I was enjoying doing it formyself, but realized that there
were parts of business ownershipthat I didn't like.
I didn't like doing sales, Ididn't like doing accounting.
All of this was just gave me ajust a giant anxiety ball, and
even thinking about it now I'mlike, oh, this is awful.
Um, so I realized, hey, maybe Idon't want to own my own
(22:32):
business.
So I did a job for somebodyneeding somebody to do SEO, and
Len, my business partner, hadjust posted saying that he
needed a project manager for hisSEO company that did SEO for
law firms, and it was one ofthose where I was like I can't
believe this job exists.
So I reached out to Len and thenext day we sat down, had
(22:58):
coffee and the day after that Iwas offered a position as a
project manager for his companyand at that point it was him and
one writer and that was it.
That was the company.
He had a handful of clients andhe and this other writer were
doing all the work for thehandful of clients.
But he really wanted to grow.
But he knew his own weaknessesin staying organized and he
(23:24):
needed somebody to help bolsterhim and keep everything
streamlined, to make sure thatthe clients were getting all
their deliverables and that wasmy strong suit.
So I came in and then wecollaboratively built this
structure that was more scalable.
And as we were able to make ascalable structure, we were able
to bring on more clients.
(23:45):
And then he and I justconstantly were bouncing ideas
off of each other for how wecould grow and hire in new
people.
And that was six or seven yearsago.
And that was six or seven yearsago.
And now we have several dozenclients all over the country.
Dr. William Attaway (24:06):
We have a team of about 15 and have been
enjoying the growth ever since.
I love that.
As you think about what's next,as you look into the future,
what do you want most?
Lindsey Busfield (24:17):
That is a really, really great question,
yeah, and I think the honestanswer for that is I want to be
able to look at my position andsay what do I love most about
what I'm doing and focus on thatand then be able to delegate
the rest out.
So that is kind of the bigpicture idea of that, and then
(24:38):
it's a matter of getting intothe nitty gritty of actually
answering that question, becausethe things that I love most,
that I really thrive on, arestrategy.
I love business developmentstrategy.
I love coming up with new ideasof ways to get our name out
there and figuring out theinternal structures of how to
(24:58):
build something that issustainable and can grow long
term.
And then I want to be able tooutsource the pieces that I
don't necessarily love so much.
So for me that would bring alot of meaning and happiness and
fulfillment to my professionalcareer.
Dr. William Attaway (25:17):
I love that .
Lindsey Busfield (25:18):
And then have time to play more pickleball.
Dr. William Attaway (25:23):
You know, when I read that I thought my
goodness, I just played for thefirst time a month before last.
Lindsey Busfield (25:29):
Oh yeah, I'd never played.
Dr. William Attaway (25:31):
It was so much fun and you know, obviously
I was trying to learn as I wasplaying and the people I was
playing with were fantasticthey're great teachers but I
thought this is so much fun Ineed to do more of this, and I
haven't, but I thoroughlyenjoyed it.
I can see why you are an avidplayer.
Lindsey Busfield (25:50):
Yes, I absolutely love playing.
I try to play at least three orfour times a week.
Wow, yeah, just because it'saddictive, like once you get
into it, like you get reallyinto it, and I mean, and there
are a million reasons why it'sso great you know just from the
community that you build beingable to get outside, get some
fresh air, get a little bit ofexercise.
(26:10):
There are a million benefits togetting out and playing.
Dr. William Attaway (26:15):
You know, one thing I ask everybody,
lindsay, is you know, obviouslyI like books, I love to read,
and most of the people that I'vetalked to, whether it's audio
books or paper books or digitalKindle books or whatever, they
are constantly learning, and Idon't think you're any exception
to that.
Is there a book that has made abig difference in your journey
(26:36):
that you would recommend to theleaders who are listening?
Lindsey Busfield (26:38):
Oh man, I am going to be so transparent that
I haven't made time to read formyself lately.
I have two little girls.
I've got a three-year-old and asix-year-old, so a lot of my
reading time is books.
Dr. William Attaway (26:53):
That's a busy season.
Lindsey Busfield (26:54):
It is such a busy season, but I am knee deep
in the Bad Kitty book series.
Dr. William Attaway (27:02):
I remember Bad Kitty.
Lindsey Busfield (27:04):
Bad Kitty's great, and we've got Pete the
Cat and we've got theInvestigators, which is an
investigative duo.
That's a couple of alligators.
So that has kind of consumed myreading time lately.
Understandable.
Dr. William Attaway (27:23):
Oh, I love that and I appreciate the
honesty and the transparencythere.
I think and I think it doesillustrate a point, and that is
that there is no such thing as aseason that lasts forever.
That's why it's called a season, instead of saying, oh man, I
(27:47):
wish I could be in a differentseason One day I'll.
To be able to be present in theseason that you're in is a gift
, and I love that you are doingthat right now.
Lindsey Busfield (27:53):
Well, thank you, and I really try my best to
compartmentalize my life and beintentional about how I spend
my time and the time that I havewith my little girls right now
is so precious and to be able toadd value to their lives by
reading their books, as opposedto reading like the perfect
pitch sales book yeah, it'sgonna.
(28:13):
You need to find time to addvalue to each part of your
personality and that way, whenall these parts come together,
you have built a really whole,fulfilling life.
Dr. William Attaway (28:23):
I love that Last question I'll ask you and
this is one that I'm askingeverybody these days If I had
the ability to snap my fingersand solve one problem right now
in your business, what would youwant that problem to be?
Lindsey Busfield (28:39):
Man.
I think the problem that a lotof us have, especially as we are
small businesses, is justgetting the word out that we
exist.
There are a lot of these giantmonster companies, and some of
them do a good job, some reallyincredible minds that are
(29:07):
putting their creativity andskills together to really help
the good law firms grow in theircommunities and connect with
the people who really need them.
Just that additional visibility, that would be the big one that
I'd like to solve.
Dr. William Attaway (29:16):
That's good , and I think a whole bunch of
people are nodding their headslistening to this show right now
because they feel the same way.
Lindsey Busfield (29:25):
I'm sure they do.
Dr. William Attaway (29:27):
Lindsay, I could talk to you for another
hour.
It's just so enjoyable and Ilove the journey that you have
been on and that has brought youto this point, and I think that
there again is no wastedexperience and the next chapters
are going to be your best ones.
Yet I know people are going towant to stay connected to you
(29:47):
and continue to learn more fromyou and more about what you're
doing at Optimize my Firm.
What's the best way for them todo that?
Lindsey Busfield (29:54):
Well, thank you so much.
My website is optimizemyfirmcom.
Feel free to reach out to me atLindsay, at optimizemyfirmcom.
Dr. William Attaway (30:03):
Excellent.
We'll have those links in theshow notes.
Lindsey Busfield (30:06):
Thank you so much for this.
Dr. William Attaway (30:07):
Thank you for your time.
Well, thank you for your timeand for sharing so generously
from what you've learned so far.
Lindsey Busfield (30:14):
Thank you, it's been a pleasure.
I'm so excited today to have Lindsay
Busfield on the podcast.
Lindsay is one of the leadingSEO experts in legal SEO and
content marketing.
As the vice president atOptimize my Firm, busfield is
behind some of the nation's mostpowerful law firm websites.
While a dozen or so SEOagencies can tout the same
(00:21):
accomplishments, busfield hasbecome an industry disruptor by
revolutionizing the client-lawfirm relationship.
Rather than locking clients inwith long-term contracts and
over-promising results in time,busfield's company has
completely done away withcontracts which attorneys
(00:42):
surprisingly love.
Busfield is also the host ofher own podcast, the Personal
Injury Marketing Minute, whichhas been applauded as one of the
best legal podcasts of 2025 byAttorney at Law magazine.
Outside of business, lindsay isan avid pickleball player.
She loves discussing how thesport fosters a unique sense of
(01:04):
community, its impact on mentalwell-being and why it's rapidly
becoming one of the fastestgrowing sports in the country.
Lindsay, I'm so glad you'rehere.
Thanks for being on the show.
Lindsey Busfield (01:15):
Thank you so much for having me Excited to be
here.
Intro (01:20):
Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the podcast designed
to help leaders intentionallygrow and thrive.
Here is your host author andleadership and executive coach,
dr William Attaway.
Dr. William Attaway (01:38):
I can't wait to dive in and hear more of
your story.
So let's, let's start there.
I'd love for you to share someof that with our listeners,
particularly around your journeyand your development as a
leader.
How did you get started?
Lindsey Busfield (01:52):
So I had a very similar background to a lot
of the attorneys that I workwith, actually.
So my undergraduate degree wasin philosophy from Center
College in Kentucky, and with aphilosophy degree there's a
couple of options.
You can either go become alawyer or you can go become a
barista, and I became a barista.
(02:16):
I wasn't quite sure that Ireally wanted to become a lawyer
yet and make that biginvestment and just wasn't
really sure what I wanted to dowith my life.
So I went the Starbucks routeand while at Starbucks I decided
to go get my teaching licensebecause I thought I wanted to
grow up and be a teacher andbecame a high school English
(02:40):
teacher and quickly realizedthat that was not the right
choice.
So I did that for about fiveyears and loved teaching, loved
the kids, but, as we all know,kind of the politics that are in
the education system right nownot the easiest.
So while I was teaching, myparents were busy building an
(03:00):
egg company with chicken eggsfrom their backyard flock of
chickens and whilesimultaneously running a bed and
breakfast, and they would usethe backyard chicken eggs to
feed the guests at the bed andbreakfast and they realized that
these were the best eggs thatthey had ever had and it was
because the chickens wereactually running outside and
doing chicken things and eatinggrass and bugs and being happy.
(03:21):
So they started an egg businessthat became a pasture raised
egg company and was one of thefirst pasture raised egg
companies in the nation and Ihad the opportunity to leave
teaching and go help them growthis business and help them with
marketing and special projectsand compliance as they partnered
(03:43):
with Amish chicken farms in thearea.
So my role transitioned veryquickly from teaching to driving
up and down the East Coastvisiting Amish chicken farms and
making sure that their organiccertification was intact and
that their humane animal welfarecertifications were taken care
of.
And that kind of took over mylife and so I was busy building
(04:08):
the compliance program for thisstartup egg company and putting
in the infrastructure for thatand scaffolding it as it grew
from one barn to now a companythat has over a million hens at
farms all across the country.
So that was really my firsttaste of building an
organization and really buildingmy own program as a leader,
(04:32):
learning as I went what had tohappen and what had to be put in
place to make this grow and besustainable.
And then from there I startedtraveling about 70% of the time
doing audits, and that reallywasn't where I wanted to be with
my life.
I was still, you know, prettyyoung, had just gotten married,
wanted to have kids.
What parts of this do I hateand how can I really hone my
(05:04):
skill set and develop a careerin the path that really
resonates with what I'mpassionate about?
So I decided to essentiallystart from scratch.
Realizing that I love themarketing and creativity, I took
a temp job at a law firm intheir marketing department, just
so that I could learn theabsolute basics of what
(05:26):
marketing entailed in a fieldthat, in the legal industry,
that I had already had someinterest in because of my
philosophy background.
So long story short, short storylong.
I worked for this company, thislaw firm in downtown Raleigh.
I said yes to helping withtheir SEO initiative because
(05:47):
nobody really had time for thatand found that I loved SEO
because it married thecreativity and the writing from
my English background and itforced me to solve problems and
be competitive from growing asmall business.
I was able to pull in from that.
I also have my projectmanagement certificate, and so
(06:09):
it was project management and itwas marrying together all of
these things that I was alreadypassionate about into this one
really weird niche of marketingfor law firms, and so that's
kind of the story of how I gotput into this really weird,
unique world and then, byblessing, was able to meet my
(06:30):
now business partner, len, andwe have since been growing
Optimize my Firm doing SEO forlaw firms.
Dr. William Attaway (06:36):
Amazing.
You know I have heard a lot ofstories, you know, on this show
and beyond, of how people movedinto marketing, how they got
into that place.
I think yours is one of myfavorite stories, you know.
I don't think I have ever heardof a story that got there via
chickens.
I think that's fantastic andI'm never going to forget that.
(06:59):
Now.
You know, there is no wastedexperience, and this is
something that I talk with whenI speak, when I talk with
clients.
I believe every part of yourjourney is important because it
made you who you are.
You know and Optimize.
My Firm is specifically focusedon the legal field, so what is
it exactly that you do for yourclients?
Lindsey Busfield (07:21):
So what we do is very simple and yet very
complicated.
So all we do is SEO for lawfirms, and most of our clients
are personal injury attorneys.
We have a handful that are indifferent legal sectors, but
what we do is SEO, and what thatmeans is we develop content for
their websites, and so thisgoes beyond, like the basic
(07:44):
blogs that are never going torank anywhere, that are like
what should you do after anaccident?
Like all that stuff is justboring and been written 10,000
times.
So what we do is we developcontent for pages or their
website that targets specificcase types that an attorney
might be looking for, or targeta specific circumstance that
somebody might be in as they'relooking for an attorney.
(08:06):
For example, most personalinjury attorneys are looking for
motor vehicle accidents andthat those are the bread and
butter cases that they arewanting to attract.
So we develop content all aboutmotor vehicle accidents.
So, for example, car accidents,car accident attorney in XYZ
city or hit and run accidents inXYZ city.
(08:29):
We develop a hierarchy ofcontent that starts at the basic
type of motor vehicle accidentand then gets a little bit more
granular with every sub pagethat targets specific case types
or questions that somebodymight have after an accident, or
resources that somebody mightneed, and then all of that leads
to them hiring that attorney.
(08:50):
So that's one major part ofwhat we do.
Another thing that we do is wesource backlinks for the
websites.
Backlinks for those who areunfamiliar with the term are
ways that you get your websitementioned by another website
that's credible.
That way, your website has alittle bit more authority.
So that's how Google decides ifthey have two equal pieces of
(09:11):
content, whichever piece ofcontent has better backlinks,
google's going to rank that sitehigher.
So a big part of our effort isgetting quality content as well
as the backlinks to that content, so that Google pairs those
together and ranks it well whensomebody is looking for an
attorney or has a question aboutthe type of case that they have
(09:32):
.
And then the other part of theSEO is working with Google
Business Profile to make surethat that's optimized correctly.
We help give our clients someguidance on things that they can
do internally to get reviewsand establish themselves as a
great law firm in their area andattracting clients to them
specifically.
Dr. William Attaway (09:52):
It sounds incredibly useful and like
something most attorneys are nottrained to do, and it's a bit
overwhelming, I imagine, forthem as they look at this and
think, yeah, I see that I needto do it, but my goodness, and
now, with the rise of AI, like,how does that play into SEO?
Lindsey Busfield (10:11):
So AI actually makes SEO incredibly important,
because AI isn't just pullingtheir answers from nowhere.
They're pulling their answersfrom content that's already out
there, and so when you have yourAI snippet come up and answer a
question, you have exactly thewebsites that they're using to
generate that information andit's essentially like getting an
(10:33):
additional layer of freeadvertising if AI is pulling
from your website.
So a lot of people have concernsabout traffic to their website
dropping because of AI.
Lot of people have concernsabout traffic to their website
dropping because of AI, butreally it's not making that much
of a difference to their bottomline, because if somebody is
just asking this question to geta basic answer, like what is
(10:55):
the statute of limitations for acar accident in Minnesota,
that's not necessarily somethingthat's going to be driving them
to hire an attorney, but it'sjust going to be during their
research process.
If somebody is actively lookingfor an attorney, they're going
to be using search terms, foryou know where's a car accident
lawyer near me and they're stillgoing to navigate to that
(11:16):
attorney's website from that andnot just find what they're
looking for necessarily in thatAI snippet.
But it is incredibly importantto be developing the content and
getting your website to rank sothat you have more of a better
chance of getting somevisibility in that AI section
itself.
Dr. William Attaway (11:33):
And that's where you come in.
Lindsey Busfield (11:34):
And that's where I come in.
Dr. William Attaway (11:36):
I love that .
You know, you have started overa couple of times, you know,
and as you have done that, Iwould imagine there is something
internally that has to happenin you to be able to adapt and
to pivot and to deal with thevery real ego that we all have
(11:58):
when we start to hear thatinternal monologue, that voice
telling us you should bewherever by now you should be.
You know, like how did younavigate that as you have gone
through the journey that youhave been on?
Lindsey Busfield (12:14):
I would love to say that I navigated it with
grace and poise and a bigpicture, you know.
But no, there were a lot oftears and there was a lot of
panic and it was a very realhuman experience going from even
starting graduating collegegoing.
I have no idea what I'm goingto do with my life, because I
(12:35):
don't know what the options aregoing to do with my life.
Because I don't know what theoptions are and I think that
there's a lot of opportunity tohelp college graduates, or soon
to be college graduates, figureout that next step, because
there was a major panic attackand thank God there were
Starbucks, because I got healthinsurance and free coffee and
that is a great catalyst to helpget you to the next level,
that's true.
But then it's going in toteaching and realizing.
(12:59):
You know, I'm creative in someways and I love teaching in
other ways, but didn'tnecessarily have the support
that I needed to really navigatethe uh, the infrastructure
there, and I had a lot ofstudent debt because I had just
gone to school and I had justgotten my teaching license and
that's a lot of money, and so Ihave to be faced with the
(13:21):
reality that if I don't get outnow, I'm probably never going to
get out.
I'm going to be a not so greatteacher, which isn't helping
anybody.
But I also have to face thefact that I have this other
problem that I need to solvewhile I'm moving forward, and
that's another panic attack.
But I took the steps and I didit because I knew that that was
(13:42):
right for me, and then I had tostart over again and figure out
okay, well, I have some supportin my parents, who have built
businesses before.
I need to trust their guidanceand have a little bit of
humility, because they are myparents and I have to go from
realizing I don't know more thanthey do to maybe they know a
little bit more than I do inthis.
(14:02):
Don't ever tell my mother Isaid that.
Dr. William Attaway (14:06):
I'll keep that on the DL.
Lindsey Busfield (14:08):
But going in and having to learn from scratch
and learn to be okay withmaking mistakes, and that
everybody does it.
And I think that there is thislayer that we put on this coat
of saying that I need to be thebest at this, going into it
immediately and I need to knowall of this immediately.
(14:29):
And after I started over andstarted over and started over, I
realized that we're allfronting that and everybody
deals with this inferioritycomplex to some degree and that
it's okay to not know everythingon day one.
Life gives you on-the-jobtraining and if you can be okay
(14:52):
with saying I don't know, butI'll find out, that is the key
to opening up any door to anyopportunity that you want.
Dr. William Attaway (15:00):
I love that that.
What a phenomenally excellentmindset.
I just have to call that outbecause I think that teachable
spirit that you're going intothis with not putting on the
posturing that you know at all,that you've got to be excellent
from day one.
Who is excellent at riding abike the first time they get on?
I've never seen that person yet.
Lindsey Busfield (15:21):
I'm still not great at it, I'm not.
Dr. William Attaway (15:24):
I've been on one in so long, I can't even
imagine how bad that would be.
The reality is, we have tolearn and by maintaining that
teachable posture internally, bymaking that choice, we set
ourselves up for a much morehealthy and sustainable pace and
much more right-sizedexpectations of ourselves and, I
(15:46):
think, of the people around us.
Lindsey Busfield (15:48):
Yes, and if we can have the right expectations
of ourselves, we're notover-promising to the people
that we are obligated to, andthat makes a much more organic,
transparent, healthyrelationship, both personally,
professionally and in allaspects of life, and it brings
that anxiety level way down ifyou are honest with yourself, as
(16:09):
well as with others of yourcapabilities, but also have the
right mindset of saying this issomething I want to look into
further and I want to be able tohelp you with this.
I don't necessarily have theanswer right now, but let me get
it for you.
Dr. William Attaway (16:23):
So good With Optimize my Firm fully,
both feet into the marketingworld.
You are very aware that changeis a constant, that this is an
ever-shifting landscape is aconstant, that this is an
ever-shifting landscape.
Has that been a struggle foryou that you can't just like
master this and now you've gotit and you don't have to worry
(16:46):
about it again, but it seemslike every month there's some
shift or some pivot you've gotto make.
Has that been challenging?
Lindsey Busfield (16:53):
It has and it hasn't, because it's actually
kind of a misconception thatwith every algorithm you have to
change course, Because you haveto look at Google's bigger
picture.
What is Google trying to do?
Google is trying to match theirusers with the best, most
relevant, accurate informationpossible.
So if you're already doingthings the right way and putting
(17:16):
accurate, relevant content outon the internet, you don't
really have to change course.
You just have to be creativeand make sure that what you're
doing stands apart from whateverybody else is doing, because
once you do something the rightway, you're going to have a
copycat see that and replicatewhat you've done, and so the
(17:37):
only thing that you need to dois pivot to make sure that what
you are providing to yourclients, what you're providing
to the internet, is creative andhas not been done a thousand
times before and is staying astep or two ahead of the
competition.
Dr. William Attaway (17:53):
That's good .
So let's talk about your growthpattern, your rhythms and your
habits.
Like you know, you have to leadat a higher level today than
you did even a few years ago.
Your team is looking to you tolead, your clients are looking
to you to lead, and that samething is going to be true three,
four or five years from now.
How do you stay on top of yourgame?
(18:16):
How do you level up with thenew skills, the new leadership
skills and marketing skills andeverything else that you're
going to need and your clientsand your team are going to need
you to have in the years to come?
Lindsey Busfield (18:37):
The bigger, most truthful answer is I'm
really lucky.
I have a phenomenal businesspartner who is a great trying to
figure out the word hold on.
He's a great partner for mebecause we balance each other
out and we are a great creativepair together.
So one of us will have an ideaand the other one will build on
(19:00):
it, and then we'll figure outhow to implement this in a way
that makes the most sense, andwith his input and my input,
we're able to come to an answerthat is so much better than
either of us could have come toon our own.
And he is actually one of thebest minds that I have ever
worked with when it comes tolooking at SEO and looking at
(19:22):
strategy.
And he is so discombobulatedwhen it comes to staying
organized that I come in behindand kind of create the
organizational structure, andthen we work together, put it
together, synergize and get itdone, and so we both really have
a solid understanding of whatour strengths are and we also
know how to make up for eachother's weaknesses.
(19:42):
And so by finding a creativepair, somebody that you really
balance well, with, that youcompliment well, you can create
something that's so much biggerthan yourselves.
And then the other piece of itis obviously the team that we
have in place.
So I have a phenomenal team ofwriters, of web developers, of
(20:04):
backlink strategists,communication strategists,
google business profile expertsLike these are all some of the
best minds in the industry andthey all collaborate together to
help build our business, and so, for me, my leadership style is
more supportive.
It's looking at I know that youguys know what you're doing.
(20:25):
You know your stuff.
How can I support you to helpyou build this to the next level
and help you so that your skillsets are maximized and so that
you stay interested and fresh inwhat you're doing?
What kind of professionaldevelopment are you interested
in and how do you want to growas an employee?
Because all of those skillsthat they're picking up along
(20:48):
the way are always going to comeback and benefit our company
and benefit our clients.
So it's really harnessing thestrengths, being aware of the
weaknesses and putting it alltogether to help build something
that is really great andorganically stays ahead of the
curve.
Dr. William Attaway (21:06):
You know a lot of people listening are
thinking man, how did you find apartnership that was such a
great fit Like?
How did you find somebody thatcomplimented like that?
What would you say if they'resitting across the table from
you?
Lindsey Busfield (21:20):
Dumb luck.
Dr. William Attaway (21:25):
That doesn't feel like an actionable
tactical strategy.
I'm just going to be clear.
Lindsey Busfield (21:29):
Not, but it's true.
I was working at the law firmand had been working with their
SEO.
I was working at the law firmand had been working with their
SEO, realized that I loved SEO,but the law firm itself wasn't a
great fit for me.
I had just had a baby.
She needed some extra doctor'sappointments, and driving to
(21:49):
downtown Raleigh from Cary andgoing and making doctor's
appointments it just wasn'tgoing to work.
So I took the skillset from theSEO and decided that I was
going to provide this servicefor other companies, and the law
firm that I was working at wasactually one of the companies
that I helped out.
I was also able to pick up acouple of different partnerships
in the area and it was great.
(22:11):
I was enjoying doing it formyself, but realized that there
were parts of business ownershipthat I didn't like.
I didn't like doing sales, Ididn't like doing accounting.
All of this was just gave me ajust a giant anxiety ball, and
even thinking about it now I'mlike, oh, this is awful.
Um, so I realized, hey, maybe Idon't want to own my own
(22:32):
business.
So I did a job for somebodyneeding somebody to do SEO, and
Len, my business partner, hadjust posted saying that he
needed a project manager for hisSEO company that did SEO for
law firms, and it was one ofthose where I was like I can't
believe this job exists.
So I reached out to Len and thenext day we sat down, had
(22:58):
coffee and the day after that Iwas offered a position as a
project manager for his companyand at that point it was him and
one writer and that was it.
That was the company.
He had a handful of clients andhe and this other writer were
doing all the work for thehandful of clients.
But he really wanted to grow.
But he knew his own weaknessesin staying organized and he
(23:24):
needed somebody to help bolsterhim and keep everything
streamlined, to make sure thatthe clients were getting all
their deliverables and that wasmy strong suit.
So I came in and then wecollaboratively built this
structure that was more scalable.
And as we were able to make ascalable structure, we were able
to bring on more clients.
(23:45):
And then he and I justconstantly were bouncing ideas
off of each other for how wecould grow and hire in new
people.
And that was six or seven yearsago.
And that was six or seven yearsago.
And now we have several dozenclients all over the country.
Dr. William Attaway (24:06):
We have a team of about 15 and have been
enjoying the growth ever since.
I love that.
As you think about what's next,as you look into the future,
what do you want most?
Lindsey Busfield (24:17):
That is a really, really great question,
yeah, and I think the honestanswer for that is I want to be
able to look at my position andsay what do I love most about
what I'm doing and focus on thatand then be able to delegate
the rest out.
So that is kind of the bigpicture idea of that, and then
(24:38):
it's a matter of getting intothe nitty gritty of actually
answering that question, becausethe things that I love most,
that I really thrive on, arestrategy.
I love business developmentstrategy.
I love coming up with new ideasof ways to get our name out
there and figuring out theinternal structures of how to
(24:58):
build something that issustainable and can grow long
term.
And then I want to be able tooutsource the pieces that I
don't necessarily love so much.
So for me that would bring alot of meaning and happiness and
fulfillment to my professionalcareer.
Dr. William Attaway (25:17):
I love that .
Lindsey Busfield (25:18):
And then have time to play more pickleball.
Dr. William Attaway (25:23):
You know, when I read that I thought my
goodness, I just played for thefirst time a month before last.
Lindsey Busfield (25:29):
Oh yeah, I'd never played.
Dr. William Attaway (25:31):
It was so much fun and you know, obviously
I was trying to learn as I wasplaying and the people I was
playing with were fantasticthey're great teachers but I
thought this is so much fun Ineed to do more of this, and I
haven't, but I thoroughlyenjoyed it.
I can see why you are an avidplayer.
Lindsey Busfield (25:50):
Yes, I absolutely love playing.
I try to play at least three orfour times a week.
Wow, yeah, just because it'saddictive, like once you get
into it, like you get reallyinto it, and I mean, and there
are a million reasons why it'sso great you know just from the
community that you build beingable to get outside, get some
fresh air, get a little bit ofexercise.
(26:10):
There are a million benefits togetting out and playing.
Dr. William Attaway (26:15):
You know, one thing I ask everybody,
lindsay, is you know, obviouslyI like books, I love to read,
and most of the people that I'vetalked to, whether it's audio
books or paper books or digitalKindle books or whatever, they
are constantly learning, and Idon't think you're any exception
to that.
Is there a book that has made abig difference in your journey
(26:36):
that you would recommend to theleaders who are listening?
Lindsey Busfield (26:38):
Oh man, I am going to be so transparent that
I haven't made time to read formyself lately.
I have two little girls.
I've got a three-year-old and asix-year-old, so a lot of my
reading time is books.
Dr. William Attaway (26:53):
That's a busy season.
Lindsey Busfield (26:54):
It is such a busy season, but I am knee deep
in the Bad Kitty book series.
Dr. William Attaway (27:02):
I remember Bad Kitty.
Lindsey Busfield (27:04):
Bad Kitty's great, and we've got Pete the
Cat and we've got theInvestigators, which is an
investigative duo.
That's a couple of alligators.
So that has kind of consumed myreading time lately.
Understandable.
Dr. William Attaway (27:23):
Oh, I love that and I appreciate the
honesty and the transparencythere.
I think and I think it doesillustrate a point, and that is
that there is no such thing as aseason that lasts forever.
That's why it's called a season, instead of saying, oh man, I
(27:47):
wish I could be in a differentseason One day I'll.
To be able to be present in theseason that you're in is a gift
, and I love that you are doingthat right now.
Lindsey Busfield (27:53):
Well, thank you, and I really try my best to
compartmentalize my life and beintentional about how I spend
my time and the time that I havewith my little girls right now
is so precious and to be able toadd value to their lives by
reading their books, as opposedto reading like the perfect
pitch sales book yeah, it'sgonna.
(28:13):
You need to find time to addvalue to each part of your
personality and that way, whenall these parts come together,
you have built a really whole,fulfilling life.
Dr. William Attaway (28:23):
I love that Last question I'll ask you and
this is one that I'm askingeverybody these days If I had
the ability to snap my fingersand solve one problem right now
in your business, what would youwant that problem to be?
Lindsey Busfield (28:39):
Man.
I think the problem that a lotof us have, especially as we are
small businesses, is justgetting the word out that we
exist.
There are a lot of these giantmonster companies, and some of
them do a good job, some reallyincredible minds that are
(29:07):
putting their creativity andskills together to really help
the good law firms grow in theircommunities and connect with
the people who really need them.
Just that additional visibility, that would be the big one that
I'd like to solve.
Dr. William Attaway (29:16):
That's good , and I think a whole bunch of
people are nodding their headslistening to this show right now
because they feel the same way.
Lindsey Busfield (29:25):
I'm sure they do.
Dr. William Attaway (29:27):
Lindsay, I could talk to you for another
hour.
It's just so enjoyable and Ilove the journey that you have
been on and that has brought youto this point, and I think that
there again is no wastedexperience and the next chapters
are going to be your best ones.
Yet I know people are going towant to stay connected to you
(29:47):
and continue to learn more fromyou and more about what you're
doing at Optimize my Firm.
What's the best way for them todo that?
Lindsey Busfield (29:54):
Well, thank you so much.
My website is optimizemyfirmcom.
Feel free to reach out to me atLindsay, at optimizemyfirmcom.
Dr. William Attaway (30:03):
Excellent.
We'll have those links in theshow notes.
Lindsey Busfield (30:06):
Thank you so much for this.
Dr. William Attaway (30:07):
Thank you for your time.
Well, thank you for your timeand for sharing so generously
from what you've learned so far.
Lindsey Busfield (30:14):
Thank you, it's been a pleasure.
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