November 18, 2025 • 22 mins
Too many high-performing leaders hit their goals and still feel drained. If you’ve built success but can’t seem to slow down without guilt, this episode is for you.
I sat down with Ari Williams, a bold and refreshing voice in Christian music and author of The Boundless Mind, to explore what happens when performance becomes our default mode. Ari shares her story of leading worship, writing, and serving, until her pace landed her in a hospital room. That moment changed everything.
In this conversation, we unpack how to lead from rest, not from exhaustion; the mindset shift that frees you to scale your impact without sacrificing your health, your family, or your peace. You’ll hear practical insights on stewarding your energy, managing the pressure to perform, and renewing your mind for sustainable growth.
If you’re ready to lead from overflow instead of depletion, this episode will help you make that shift; from running on empty to leading with intention, clarity, and rest.
📚 Books Mentioned
- The Boundless Mind by Ari Williams
- Permission by Dr. Jackie Green
To learn more from Ari and explore her message of freedom and rest, visit theempoweredvoiceacademy.com — you can even download a free copy of The Boundless Mind.
Join Dr. William Attaway on the Catalytic Leadership podcast as he shares transformative insights to help high-performance entrepreneurs and agency owners achieve Clear-Minded Focus, Calm Control, and Confidence.
- Free 30-Minute Discovery Call:
Ready to elevate your business? Book a free 30-minute discovery call with Dr. William Attaway and start your journey to success.
- Special Offer:
Get your FREE copy of Catalytic Leadership: 12 Keys to Becoming an Intentional Leader Who Makes a Difference.
Connect with Dr. William Attaway:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. William Attaway (00:00):
It is a joy today to have Ari Williams on
the podcast.
Ari is a bold and refreshingvoice in the world of Christian
music, contemporary gospel, andrhythm and praise music.
Whether on stage, in thestudio, or leading worship,
Ari's mission is clear to shareher authentic relationship with
Christ in a way that resonateswith people from all walks of
(00:23):
life.
Her debut studio album,Concrete Gardens, released in
2018, beautifully encapsulatesher story.
Nothing's supposed to grow outof concrete because the
environment isn't conducive forgrowth.
That's how she feels her lifewas set up to be.
But with God's help, she hasblossomed despite the odds.
(00:43):
Like the flowers you find in aconcrete garden.
Ari's also an author with abook that shares her prayer
life, another book about herexperience with deliverance from
mental strongholds, with bothencouraging others on their
faith journeys.
She wants people to know theyare not alone.
Life with Christ is real.
It has struggles and it hastriumphs, but it's worth it.
(01:07):
Ari, I'm so glad you're here.
Thanks for being on the show.
Thanks for having me.
This is going to be a greatconversation.
Intro (01:16):
Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the podcast designed
to help leaders intentionallygrow and thrive.
Here is your host, author, andleadership and executive coach,
Dr.
William Attaway.
Dr. William Attaway (01:42):
How did you get started?
Ari Williams (01:43):
That was a God thing because I never really saw
myself as a leader.
I would say within the pastyear, the Lord put me on this
journey of developing as aleader, right?
So he had me stop singing for awhile and then he had me join
this group, like a small grouptype setting.
And I didn't know what thetopic was going to be about.
I'm like, God, I don't evenknow why I'm doing this.
(02:04):
And it was about leadership.
And I was like, well, why am Iin here?
I'm nobody's leader.
Did not see myself that way atall.
And so throughout this pastyear, he has been like really
calling me to the forefront,putting me in places where I am
in a leadership role.
Like I do small groups at mychurch with the youth.
So it's like a teaching role, aleadership type of role.
(02:27):
So it's not just I was so usedto leading worship and then kind
of disappearing because I had alittle social anxiety.
So now like being immersed inthe church culture and like
getting to know the kids andgetting to know their parents
and being a voice in their lifewhere they can see Jesus up
close and personal has been uhthe culmination of where I am
(02:50):
today.
Dr. William Attaway (02:50):
I love that.
So the writing journey, youknow, normally when I think
about somebody who is a giftedworship leader, a gifted singer,
like you are, I don't equatethat with somebody who wants to
write books and to touch peoplein that way.
How did that journey go?
Ari Williams (03:07):
Okay, so in 2019, the Lord had sent a couple of
people into my life to prophesyto me about writing books.
Now, I didn't really get a lotof awards growing up outside of
for writing, but I had alwaysdiscounted that as like that's
not like a trophy.
It would normally be acertificate.
So I thought certificate wasnot as important as a trophy.
(03:30):
So I was like, what am I gonnawrite about?
So I just spent years justjournaling random things that
never came to it didn't come toanything.
So I just kind of stoppedpursuing that and went on about
my business.
Um, and then I would say withinthe past year, yeah, a lot has
(03:52):
happened in the past year.
Within the past year, like Iwas at um at the gym, I had
started, you know, the Lord hadbeen on me about teaching me how
to take care of my body, youknow, how to I had to drop some
weight and just get on my healthkick.
And so while I was in the saunajust relaxing, I had a vision
of the boundless mind.
And so I didn't know what thatwas about.
(04:14):
So when I saw it, I'm like, theboundless mind, like, what is
that?
And so I went home, made thecover, and that was that.
And then he started giving melike the urge to like start
writing and about certainthings.
Like he would highlight thingsthat I would hear or just you
know, in my everyday life towrite about.
And that's how the book cameabout.
And I was like, oh, so backwhen you spoke this, when I was
(04:36):
in the middle of getting freefrom all these cycles, I was
living out the story you wantedme to write about.
Got it.
That's why it didn't happenback then.
Dr. William Attaway (04:46):
There you go.
It's a journey.
You know, there's so many timesthat I have looked at at
different points of my journeyand thought, man, why isn't this
going faster?
Why isn't this happening?
You know, everything seems tobe pointing this direction, but
there's no momentum.
What's going on here?
And right as I look back withhindsight, hindsight's 2020, we
(05:09):
have the opportunity to learn Iwasn't ready yet.
God was God was growing me inthat season.
Absolutely.
I just didn't know what washappening.
But there is no wastedexperience.
You know, this is somethingthat I often tell the leaders
that I work with, you know, eventhe things that are the lowest
parts of your journey, even thethings that you think are wasted
(05:31):
time, are not.
Because those experiences canbe used later for your benefit
or for the benefit of thosearound you.
Ari Williams (05:38):
That's right.
Dr. William Attaway (05:38):
You know, as I was reading The Boundless
Mind, so many thoughts poppedup.
You know, you're a giftedwriter and understanding as you
start with apathy and the dangerthat is apathy, how how so many
people are asleep in thatstate.
And you write about so many ofthese different pieces of the
(06:00):
journey when it when we'removing toward a mind that is
unshackled.
Was your own journey really theinspiration for all of this?
Or were there other people thatyou looked at and thought, oh
my goodness, as they're movingtoward freedom, I'm seeing a I'm
seeing threads that run throughso many of their stories?
Ari Williams (06:19):
I think it was both.
Like at first, I thought I wasalone in all of those cycles,
and then I started seeingsimilar patterns around me in
the people around me.
And so I was like, well, maybeit's not just me who has felt
apathetic or been bound byself-doubt or stuck in survival
mode anxiety.
Like I started to see it likein everyone else's life, and I
(06:40):
was like, okay, well, what's thepoint of having a story if you
don't share it and it use it tohelp people?
So I was like, okay, Lord, I'ma very private person.
So I was like, I didn't feelcomfortable sharing all of that
vulnerable information with theworld.
But if it's going to helppeople, if it's going to draw
people to Christ, if that wasthe whole reason I was born to
(07:02):
draw people through my story,then why not utilize that and
help someone else achievefreedom?
Dr. William Attaway (07:07):
That's really the theme of the book,
isn't it?
It's freedom, it's getting freeof those chains, those shackles
that bind so many of us sooften of our own making.
Ari Williams (07:18):
Right.
Dr. William Attaway (07:18):
So your chapter, people pleasing, really
made me chuckle because that issomething that I had wrestled
with very early on and stillhave a temptation toward.
You know?
And I loved your I loved yoursubtitle.
You ain't gotta be everybody'sfavorite.
That's so good.
But boy, is that something Isee a lot of leaders struggle
(07:39):
with.
What is your journey throughthat look like?
Has that been something you'vealways struggled with?
And how did you discover thefreedom that you write about?
Ari Williams (07:47):
Well, I think yes, it was something that I've
always struggled with because Ibriefly talked about my origin
story where I was raised by asingle mother, my dad wasn't
there, and so I was just leftkind of struggling with why was
my family dynamic not the sameas the core family supposed to
be.
And so that led me down a pathof trying to get the affirmation
(08:10):
that I needed, which everychild needs from the father
figure, from their mother.
It led me down a path of tryingto get that by being the token
person, by being the one who'salways dependable, by always
showing up, no matter how muchof a deficit that it left me in.
But I learned through thatprocess of going through that,
hey, this is self-destructive.
(08:31):
Me doing this to my deficit isnot healthy.
And so I just had to wake up tothat.
What was the second part of thequestion?
Dr. William Attaway (08:37):
Like, as you as you were moving toward
freedom with this, like whatwere the steps along that
pathway?
Because this is something I seea lot of people struggle with.
And what you just said aboutpleasing other people to your
deficit, you know, man, that'sthat's so common.
I see a lot of leaders tryingto pour out of an empty pitcher
(08:58):
because they're not taking thetime to fill their own cup
before they try to fill somebodyelse's.
Ari Williams (09:03):
Well, here's what I've learned.
After going through thispattern of just being exhausted
from doing all this, it justbecame like a sense of awareness
that began to awaken as I wastrying to constantly do that.
And it got to a point to whereit was causing anxiety.
All these patterns were kind oflinked together.
And so it had got so bad towhere my blood pressure was out
(09:24):
of control.
And then they couldn't figureout why it was high when I had
no blockages, no highcholesterol.
I was vegan at the time.
I had lost about 20 pounds.
So it didn't make sense.
And they determined that it wasbecause my body was stuck in
fight or flight, which isanxiety, the anxiety state, the
survival mode state.
And so once I realized, like,dang, this is having an impact
(09:46):
on my physical health, like Ihad to ask the Lord, can you
reveal what I am holding on tothat's still causing me to stay
in this state?
Like, why am I not able to calmdown when I'm doing all the
deep breathing?
Like, it's because there'ssomething internally that is
causing me to feel like I stillhave to perform.
And so the step was thatawareness and then making a step
(10:11):
to change it and allowing theHoly Spirit to reveal what was
going on in my subconsciousmind.
And when he started to do that,I had to also like be humble
and vulnerable and make thechanges that needed to be made
so that I could remain healthybecause my longevity is an
important part of me achievingmy purpose and allowing me to be
(10:31):
able to do that for a longerperiod of time.
And I also found in my researchthat a lot of people like in
the past were like generals ofthe faith.
They had heart issues, they hadall these health problems
because they were so focused onserving God's people that they
were not good stewards of theirbody.
And I didn't want to fall intothat same cycle.
I wanted to do it from a placeof, okay, let me make sure that
(10:53):
I'm filled to capacity with theLord.
And then what I give to otherpeople is from my overflow, not
what I need for me and what Ineed for my family and what I
need for the people who areactually doing life with me.
So I'm very conscious now ofmaking sure I'm I'm serving from
a place of rest and not from aplace of performance.
(11:14):
And it is my goal to onlyoperate from a place of being in
his presence and not going backto that performance thing, that
achievement achievement thing.
And sometimes I'm still temptedto kick into that year and then
I remember in a human vessel,you got to slow down, you know?
Dr. William Attaway (11:30):
So that's so well said.
I really hope the leaders whoare listening have paid
attention to that.
What you're describing isintentionality in running your
race in a healthy andsustainable way.
I watch a lot of leaders whoare running so fast, so hard,
that they are on the fast trackto burnout.
(11:51):
And burnout is not a badge ofhonor.
Burnout is something we want toavoid as leaders because it
affects how we lead.
Actually, it will affect how welead for the rest of our lives.
You're talking about a healthyand sustainable pace as you run,
so that you're not pouring outwhat is needed to keep you
healthy, but you're working outof an overflow.
You're sharing the overflow.
That is so good and so healthy.
(12:14):
And I have to think that comesout of part of your story too.
I have to think that there weretimes when you didn't do that
and it taught you the value ofit.
Would that be right?
Ari Williams (12:22):
Yes.
I landed myself in the hospitalroom and I noticed, man, I'm
the only one in here.
All the people that I washelping and serving were nowhere
to be found.
And my family was at home.
It was in the middle of COVID,so like they couldn't be there.
So I was alone.
So I'm like, man, I'm alwaysserving my family.
I'm always serving my kids, I'malways serving the church or
(12:43):
serving all these people.
That did have people check onme.
I'm not gonna say that.
But I was alone in the room.
And like, when we are a badsteward of our body, we are the
ones who have to pay theconsequence of that, regardless
of how many people love us.
And I have a response, we allhave a responsibility to be good
stewards of everything Godgives us, including our physical
(13:07):
body, including our mentalhealth, including paying
attention to what's going on,you know, underneath our our
conscious mind.
Because a lot of times we don'trealize that the subconscious
mind is what drives our decisionmaking.
It drives our behaviors.
And sometimes we do things thatwe don't know why we're doing
them until we slow down andwe're introspective and we allow
(13:28):
the Holy Spirit to reveal whatis going on so that he can
uproot and heal and mend and,you know, allow that
neuroplasticity to happen wherewe have new neuropathways, you
know, so we're not automaticallydefaulting to anxiety or
survival mode or apathy in orderto preserve energy.
Like there are healthier waysto manage life and to manage
(13:49):
stress.
Um, and the key to that isrest.
Dr. William Attaway (13:52):
You draw a very close connection between
the freedom and that comes withstewarding your body and your
health well and the freedom ofyour mind, what you call the
boundless mind.
What what what connected thosetwo things for you?
Ari Williams (14:09):
Well, in the middle of 2019, when I was still
in all these cycles, um, andmind you, it's been a long
journey of getting free fromthose things.
Um, in the Mac Dab in themiddle of it, I was trying to
lose weight for the first time,for real, after having kids.
And there were a lot of mentalbarriers that I ran into when
(14:30):
working out.
And so my husband was trying totrain me, but it's like I had
so many things holding me backin my mind that it was hindering
my performance.
Like I didn't think I couldrun.
I thought I was too big to run.
Um, I thought everyone waslooking at me.
I was afraid to go to the gymbecause I thought people being
like, oh, she's so big, why isshe in here?
I was so self-conscious aboutif I don't do something right
(14:54):
and I look strange trying toperform, you know, the deadlifts
and all the different umworkouts.
So I noticed that dang, theonly thing standing between me
and achieving having good healthwere these thoughts.
If those thoughts changed, ifwhat I believed about myself
changed, then my results wouldbe different.
(15:15):
But every time I would justkeep hitting this mental barrier
every time.
And it's like it just kepthindering me.
And so it was a progressivejourney, kind of like exposure
therapy.
Like, okay, let me try walkingand then jog for 30 seconds and
then walk again.
And then I had to work myselfwhat all the way up to being
(15:36):
able to run for the full twominutes.
You know what I'm saying?
Or when I went to the gym forthe first time, I had to like,
let me just show up consistentlywalking on the treadmill for 30
minutes.
Okay, once I got that, then Iwas like, okay, let me gain the
nerve and the confidence toactually go on a class without
feeling self-conscious because Idon't know the movements.
Like I felt like everyone wasgonna be looking at me.
(15:56):
And so I was just soself-conscious about that.
But it took a year of me justgoing and doing the treadmill.
And then now I walk in anyclass, whether I know the
movements or not, but it tookall those little small steps to
get there.
Um and each small step, I wasovercoming a thought pattern.
I was overcoming um a bound achain of bondage that was
(16:20):
holding me back from actuallyachieving what I really wanted,
which was to be healthy.
Dr. William Attaway (16:24):
So good.
You know, the leaders that Iwork with so often have chains
that are holding them back.
Learning how to break thosechains is a journey.
And I love that you use thatimagery.
This is a process.
This did not just you didn'twake up one day and say, Oh my
goodness, I'm free.
I don't know how that happened,but I've got healthy thoughts
(16:45):
now.
Nobody touched that.
You had to work for it.
You had to do the work to getfrom where you were to where you
are.
So that's a process.
And that process of moving frombondage to freedom is going to
look different for differentpeople.
You know, for some people, itmay be around physical health.
(17:06):
For some people, it's thoserecurring soundtracks, like John
A.
Cuff calls them, thoserecurring thoughts in your head
where you talk to yourself in away that you'd never talk to
somebody else.
What you write about in thebook is how to look at yourself
as a fully integrated person,where all the parts touch all
the other parts and lead tofreedom.
(17:27):
That is refreshing, and I gottabe honest, it's pretty unique.
I don't hear a lot of peopletalking about that, about a
holistic view of you.
It's very refreshing, and Ireally want to commend that to
the listeners.
If you have not read TheBoundless Mind, I really want
you to take a look at this.
I want you to see it, I wantyou to read it, and I want you
(17:48):
to take it to heart.
Ari, as you were writing this,I imagine you had in mind the
people who would one day readit.
What were you thinking aboutwhen you think about the people
who would be the the readers ofthis book eventually?
Ari Williams (18:01):
I was just hoping that my story would help them to
be awakened from their slumberfor them to realize that they
can do something about thesebondages.
They can come out of agreementwith these things.
I wanted to empower them and tolet them know that they can be
free, that freedom is possible.
(18:21):
And Jesus is how He is thepossible, He's the one who makes
it possible.
And so I just wanted to be awitness to his power to deliver
and to set free.
Dr. William Attaway (18:33):
So good.
I really want that message toring loud and clear.
It is possible.
You know, when you are wrappedin those chains, it's very easy
to fall into the lie and listento that lie that you can never
be free.
That there's no way out.
Right.
That it will always be like itis today.
But that's not true.
(18:55):
And what you write about in thebook is the path from where you
are to where you could be.
But you have to choose right.
So if we could sum up yourjourney, I'm I'm just curious.
I'm thinking about you as aleader, and you are a leader.
You have influence, and thatinfluence extends through the
(19:16):
songs that you sing, it extendsthrough the books that you
write, the talks that you giveas you speak.
These are opportunities thatyou have to extend that
influence and leverage that forthe good of the people around
you, helping them to discoverthe freedom that God created
them for.
As I think about you, I thinkabout somebody who, like me and
everybody else I know, is a workin progress.
(19:36):
So I'm going to ask you thisquestion with that in mind.
How do you stay on top of yourgame?
How do you level up with thenew leadership skills that are
going to be required of you inthe years to come?
Ari Williams (19:49):
I stay on my face before the Lord.
And I'm not just sayingphysically, but like it requires
a level of humility and beingwilling to surrender over and
over again.
Even writing writing the bookwas fine.
But then when the Lord startedpressing me to like promote the
book, I started to hit thatmental barrier, like self-doubt,
(20:11):
you know.
But I was able to go past thatbarrier because I already knew
the route out.
I needed to come out ofagreement with every lie of the
enemy and just choose to obeyand not have my faith attached
to the outcome, but have myfaith attached to who God is.
And he is the chainbreaker.
He is the one who is thedeliverer.
(20:32):
He is the one who is thehealer.
He's the great physician.
He is everything that we need.
And so if he wants to use myvoice and my story, whether it
be through song, through being asmall group leader, through
teaching, through writing abook, however that looks, I'm
willing to be obedient.
And I'm also aware of my lackand my inability to do certain
(20:54):
things.
So I'm I'm leaning heavy,heavily on him to be the voice
through me.
Like use my mouth, use me as aninstrument, Lord, to reach the
people that you want to reach.
So I stay on top of my game bystaying in a place of humility
and surrender.
Dr. William Attaway (21:11):
So well said.
You know, you're a continuallearner who wants to continue to
grow beyond where you aretoday.
Is there a book that has made abig difference in your journey
that you would recommend to theleaders who are listening?
Hey, if you haven't read this,this made a big difference for
me.
Ari Williams (21:27):
Permission by Dr.
Jackie Green.
She's Travis Green's wife, andthey have a church out in South
Carolina.
Um, and she has a com apermission conference.
Um, and she wrote a book calledPermission, and that book
really, really made a differencein my life.
Dr. William Attaway (21:42):
I've not read that.
Now I'll have to check that oneout.
Thank you.
Ari, I know our listeners aregonna want to stay connected to
you and continue to learn morefrom you and about your writing
and the books that you have.
What's the best way for peopleto stay in touch with you?
Ari Williams (21:57):
You can get your free copy of The Balanced Mind
at the EmpoweredVoiceAcademy.com.
There you can get all theinformation you need about the
book and about me, all there.
Dr. William Attaway (22:09):
Perfect.
We will have that link in theshow notes, along with links to
your social connections sopeople can follow you and
continue to learn from you.
Ari, thanks so much for yourtime and your generosity today
and sharing so freely from whatyou've learned so far in your
journey.
And I can't wait to see what'snext for you.
Ari Williams (22:29):
Thank you for having me.
It is a joy today to have Ari Williams on
the podcast.
Ari is a bold and refreshingvoice in the world of Christian
music, contemporary gospel, andrhythm and praise music.
Whether on stage, in thestudio, or leading worship,
Ari's mission is clear to shareher authentic relationship with
Christ in a way that resonateswith people from all walks of
(00:23):
life.
Her debut studio album,Concrete Gardens, released in
2018, beautifully encapsulatesher story.
Nothing's supposed to grow outof concrete because the
environment isn't conducive forgrowth.
That's how she feels her lifewas set up to be.
But with God's help, she hasblossomed despite the odds.
(00:43):
Like the flowers you find in aconcrete garden.
Ari's also an author with abook that shares her prayer
life, another book about herexperience with deliverance from
mental strongholds, with bothencouraging others on their
faith journeys.
She wants people to know theyare not alone.
Life with Christ is real.
It has struggles and it hastriumphs, but it's worth it.
(01:07):
Ari, I'm so glad you're here.
Thanks for being on the show.
Thanks for having me.
This is going to be a greatconversation.
Intro (01:16):
Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the podcast designed
to help leaders intentionallygrow and thrive.
Here is your host, author, andleadership and executive coach,
Dr.
William Attaway.
Dr. William Attaway (01:42):
How did you get started?
Ari Williams (01:43):
That was a God thing because I never really saw
myself as a leader.
I would say within the pastyear, the Lord put me on this
journey of developing as aleader, right?
So he had me stop singing for awhile and then he had me join
this group, like a small grouptype setting.
And I didn't know what thetopic was going to be about.
I'm like, God, I don't evenknow why I'm doing this.
(02:04):
And it was about leadership.
And I was like, well, why am Iin here?
I'm nobody's leader.
Did not see myself that way atall.
And so throughout this pastyear, he has been like really
calling me to the forefront,putting me in places where I am
in a leadership role.
Like I do small groups at mychurch with the youth.
So it's like a teaching role, aleadership type of role.
(02:27):
So it's not just I was so usedto leading worship and then kind
of disappearing because I had alittle social anxiety.
So now like being immersed inthe church culture and like
getting to know the kids andgetting to know their parents
and being a voice in their lifewhere they can see Jesus up
close and personal has been uhthe culmination of where I am
(02:50):
today.
Dr. William Attaway (02:50):
I love that.
So the writing journey, youknow, normally when I think
about somebody who is a giftedworship leader, a gifted singer,
like you are, I don't equatethat with somebody who wants to
write books and to touch peoplein that way.
How did that journey go?
Ari Williams (03:07):
Okay, so in 2019, the Lord had sent a couple of
people into my life to prophesyto me about writing books.
Now, I didn't really get a lotof awards growing up outside of
for writing, but I had alwaysdiscounted that as like that's
not like a trophy.
It would normally be acertificate.
So I thought certificate wasnot as important as a trophy.
(03:30):
So I was like, what am I gonnawrite about?
So I just spent years justjournaling random things that
never came to it didn't come toanything.
So I just kind of stoppedpursuing that and went on about
my business.
Um, and then I would say withinthe past year, yeah, a lot has
(03:52):
happened in the past year.
Within the past year, like Iwas at um at the gym, I had
started, you know, the Lord hadbeen on me about teaching me how
to take care of my body, youknow, how to I had to drop some
weight and just get on my healthkick.
And so while I was in the saunajust relaxing, I had a vision
of the boundless mind.
And so I didn't know what thatwas about.
(04:14):
So when I saw it, I'm like, theboundless mind, like, what is
that?
And so I went home, made thecover, and that was that.
And then he started giving melike the urge to like start
writing and about certainthings.
Like he would highlight thingsthat I would hear or just you
know, in my everyday life towrite about.
And that's how the book cameabout.
And I was like, oh, so backwhen you spoke this, when I was
(04:36):
in the middle of getting freefrom all these cycles, I was
living out the story you wantedme to write about.
Got it.
That's why it didn't happenback then.
Dr. William Attaway (04:46):
There you go.
It's a journey.
You know, there's so many timesthat I have looked at at
different points of my journeyand thought, man, why isn't this
going faster?
Why isn't this happening?
You know, everything seems tobe pointing this direction, but
there's no momentum.
What's going on here?
And right as I look back withhindsight, hindsight's 2020, we
(05:09):
have the opportunity to learn Iwasn't ready yet.
God was God was growing me inthat season.
Absolutely.
I just didn't know what washappening.
But there is no wastedexperience.
You know, this is somethingthat I often tell the leaders
that I work with, you know, eventhe things that are the lowest
parts of your journey, even thethings that you think are wasted
(05:31):
time, are not.
Because those experiences canbe used later for your benefit
or for the benefit of thosearound you.
Ari Williams (05:38):
That's right.
Dr. William Attaway (05:38):
You know, as I was reading The Boundless
Mind, so many thoughts poppedup.
You know, you're a giftedwriter and understanding as you
start with apathy and the dangerthat is apathy, how how so many
people are asleep in thatstate.
And you write about so many ofthese different pieces of the
(06:00):
journey when it when we'removing toward a mind that is
unshackled.
Was your own journey really theinspiration for all of this?
Or were there other people thatyou looked at and thought, oh
my goodness, as they're movingtoward freedom, I'm seeing a I'm
seeing threads that run throughso many of their stories?
Ari Williams (06:19):
I think it was both.
Like at first, I thought I wasalone in all of those cycles,
and then I started seeingsimilar patterns around me in
the people around me.
And so I was like, well, maybeit's not just me who has felt
apathetic or been bound byself-doubt or stuck in survival
mode anxiety.
Like I started to see it likein everyone else's life, and I
(06:40):
was like, okay, well, what's thepoint of having a story if you
don't share it and it use it tohelp people?
So I was like, okay, Lord, I'ma very private person.
So I was like, I didn't feelcomfortable sharing all of that
vulnerable information with theworld.
But if it's going to helppeople, if it's going to draw
people to Christ, if that wasthe whole reason I was born to
(07:02):
draw people through my story,then why not utilize that and
help someone else achievefreedom?
Dr. William Attaway (07:07):
That's really the theme of the book,
isn't it?
It's freedom, it's getting freeof those chains, those shackles
that bind so many of us sooften of our own making.
Ari Williams (07:18):
Right.
Dr. William Attaway (07:18):
So your chapter, people pleasing, really
made me chuckle because that issomething that I had wrestled
with very early on and stillhave a temptation toward.
You know?
And I loved your I loved yoursubtitle.
You ain't gotta be everybody'sfavorite.
That's so good.
But boy, is that something Isee a lot of leaders struggle
(07:39):
with.
What is your journey throughthat look like?
Has that been something you'vealways struggled with?
And how did you discover thefreedom that you write about?
Ari Williams (07:47):
Well, I think yes, it was something that I've
always struggled with because Ibriefly talked about my origin
story where I was raised by asingle mother, my dad wasn't
there, and so I was just leftkind of struggling with why was
my family dynamic not the sameas the core family supposed to
be.
And so that led me down a pathof trying to get the affirmation
(08:10):
that I needed, which everychild needs from the father
figure, from their mother.
It led me down a path of tryingto get that by being the token
person, by being the one who'salways dependable, by always
showing up, no matter how muchof a deficit that it left me in.
But I learned through thatprocess of going through that,
hey, this is self-destructive.
(08:31):
Me doing this to my deficit isnot healthy.
And so I just had to wake up tothat.
What was the second part of thequestion?
Dr. William Attaway (08:37):
Like, as you as you were moving toward
freedom with this, like whatwere the steps along that
pathway?
Because this is something I seea lot of people struggle with.
And what you just said aboutpleasing other people to your
deficit, you know, man, that'sthat's so common.
I see a lot of leaders tryingto pour out of an empty pitcher
(08:58):
because they're not taking thetime to fill their own cup
before they try to fill somebodyelse's.
Ari Williams (09:03):
Well, here's what I've learned.
After going through thispattern of just being exhausted
from doing all this, it justbecame like a sense of awareness
that began to awaken as I wastrying to constantly do that.
And it got to a point to whereit was causing anxiety.
All these patterns were kind oflinked together.
And so it had got so bad towhere my blood pressure was out
(09:24):
of control.
And then they couldn't figureout why it was high when I had
no blockages, no highcholesterol.
I was vegan at the time.
I had lost about 20 pounds.
So it didn't make sense.
And they determined that it wasbecause my body was stuck in
fight or flight, which isanxiety, the anxiety state, the
survival mode state.
And so once I realized, like,dang, this is having an impact
(09:46):
on my physical health, like Ihad to ask the Lord, can you
reveal what I am holding on tothat's still causing me to stay
in this state?
Like, why am I not able to calmdown when I'm doing all the
deep breathing?
Like, it's because there'ssomething internally that is
causing me to feel like I stillhave to perform.
And so the step was thatawareness and then making a step
(10:11):
to change it and allowing theHoly Spirit to reveal what was
going on in my subconsciousmind.
And when he started to do that,I had to also like be humble
and vulnerable and make thechanges that needed to be made
so that I could remain healthybecause my longevity is an
important part of me achievingmy purpose and allowing me to be
(10:31):
able to do that for a longerperiod of time.
And I also found in my researchthat a lot of people like in
the past were like generals ofthe faith.
They had heart issues, they hadall these health problems
because they were so focused onserving God's people that they
were not good stewards of theirbody.
And I didn't want to fall intothat same cycle.
I wanted to do it from a placeof, okay, let me make sure that
(10:53):
I'm filled to capacity with theLord.
And then what I give to otherpeople is from my overflow, not
what I need for me and what Ineed for my family and what I
need for the people who areactually doing life with me.
So I'm very conscious now ofmaking sure I'm I'm serving from
a place of rest and not from aplace of performance.
(11:14):
And it is my goal to onlyoperate from a place of being in
his presence and not going backto that performance thing, that
achievement achievement thing.
And sometimes I'm still temptedto kick into that year and then
I remember in a human vessel,you got to slow down, you know?
Dr. William Attaway (11:30):
So that's so well said.
I really hope the leaders whoare listening have paid
attention to that.
What you're describing isintentionality in running your
race in a healthy andsustainable way.
I watch a lot of leaders whoare running so fast, so hard,
that they are on the fast trackto burnout.
(11:51):
And burnout is not a badge ofhonor.
Burnout is something we want toavoid as leaders because it
affects how we lead.
Actually, it will affect how welead for the rest of our lives.
You're talking about a healthyand sustainable pace as you run,
so that you're not pouring outwhat is needed to keep you
healthy, but you're working outof an overflow.
You're sharing the overflow.
That is so good and so healthy.
(12:14):
And I have to think that comesout of part of your story too.
I have to think that there weretimes when you didn't do that
and it taught you the value ofit.
Would that be right?
Ari Williams (12:22):
Yes.
I landed myself in the hospitalroom and I noticed, man, I'm
the only one in here.
All the people that I washelping and serving were nowhere
to be found.
And my family was at home.
It was in the middle of COVID,so like they couldn't be there.
So I was alone.
So I'm like, man, I'm alwaysserving my family.
I'm always serving my kids, I'malways serving the church or
(12:43):
serving all these people.
That did have people check onme.
I'm not gonna say that.
But I was alone in the room.
And like, when we are a badsteward of our body, we are the
ones who have to pay theconsequence of that, regardless
of how many people love us.
And I have a response, we allhave a responsibility to be good
stewards of everything Godgives us, including our physical
(13:07):
body, including our mentalhealth, including paying
attention to what's going on,you know, underneath our our
conscious mind.
Because a lot of times we don'trealize that the subconscious
mind is what drives our decisionmaking.
It drives our behaviors.
And sometimes we do things thatwe don't know why we're doing
them until we slow down andwe're introspective and we allow
(13:28):
the Holy Spirit to reveal whatis going on so that he can
uproot and heal and mend and,you know, allow that
neuroplasticity to happen wherewe have new neuropathways, you
know, so we're not automaticallydefaulting to anxiety or
survival mode or apathy in orderto preserve energy.
Like there are healthier waysto manage life and to manage
(13:49):
stress.
Um, and the key to that isrest.
Dr. William Attaway (13:52):
You draw a very close connection between
the freedom and that comes withstewarding your body and your
health well and the freedom ofyour mind, what you call the
boundless mind.
What what what connected thosetwo things for you?
Ari Williams (14:09):
Well, in the middle of 2019, when I was still
in all these cycles, um, andmind you, it's been a long
journey of getting free fromthose things.
Um, in the Mac Dab in themiddle of it, I was trying to
lose weight for the first time,for real, after having kids.
And there were a lot of mentalbarriers that I ran into when
(14:30):
working out.
And so my husband was trying totrain me, but it's like I had
so many things holding me backin my mind that it was hindering
my performance.
Like I didn't think I couldrun.
I thought I was too big to run.
Um, I thought everyone waslooking at me.
I was afraid to go to the gymbecause I thought people being
like, oh, she's so big, why isshe in here?
I was so self-conscious aboutif I don't do something right
(14:54):
and I look strange trying toperform, you know, the deadlifts
and all the different umworkouts.
So I noticed that dang, theonly thing standing between me
and achieving having good healthwere these thoughts.
If those thoughts changed, ifwhat I believed about myself
changed, then my results wouldbe different.
(15:15):
But every time I would justkeep hitting this mental barrier
every time.
And it's like it just kepthindering me.
And so it was a progressivejourney, kind of like exposure
therapy.
Like, okay, let me try walkingand then jog for 30 seconds and
then walk again.
And then I had to work myselfwhat all the way up to being
(15:36):
able to run for the full twominutes.
You know what I'm saying?
Or when I went to the gym forthe first time, I had to like,
let me just show up consistentlywalking on the treadmill for 30
minutes.
Okay, once I got that, then Iwas like, okay, let me gain the
nerve and the confidence toactually go on a class without
feeling self-conscious because Idon't know the movements.
Like I felt like everyone wasgonna be looking at me.
(15:56):
And so I was just soself-conscious about that.
But it took a year of me justgoing and doing the treadmill.
And then now I walk in anyclass, whether I know the
movements or not, but it tookall those little small steps to
get there.
Um and each small step, I wasovercoming a thought pattern.
I was overcoming um a bound achain of bondage that was
(16:20):
holding me back from actuallyachieving what I really wanted,
which was to be healthy.
Dr. William Attaway (16:24):
So good.
You know, the leaders that Iwork with so often have chains
that are holding them back.
Learning how to break thosechains is a journey.
And I love that you use thatimagery.
This is a process.
This did not just you didn'twake up one day and say, Oh my
goodness, I'm free.
I don't know how that happened,but I've got healthy thoughts
(16:45):
now.
Nobody touched that.
You had to work for it.
You had to do the work to getfrom where you were to where you
are.
So that's a process.
And that process of moving frombondage to freedom is going to
look different for differentpeople.
You know, for some people, itmay be around physical health.
(17:06):
For some people, it's thoserecurring soundtracks, like John
A.
Cuff calls them, thoserecurring thoughts in your head
where you talk to yourself in away that you'd never talk to
somebody else.
What you write about in thebook is how to look at yourself
as a fully integrated person,where all the parts touch all
the other parts and lead tofreedom.
(17:27):
That is refreshing, and I gottabe honest, it's pretty unique.
I don't hear a lot of peopletalking about that, about a
holistic view of you.
It's very refreshing, and Ireally want to commend that to
the listeners.
If you have not read TheBoundless Mind, I really want
you to take a look at this.
I want you to see it, I wantyou to read it, and I want you
(17:48):
to take it to heart.
Ari, as you were writing this,I imagine you had in mind the
people who would one day readit.
What were you thinking aboutwhen you think about the people
who would be the the readers ofthis book eventually?
Ari Williams (18:01):
I was just hoping that my story would help them to
be awakened from their slumberfor them to realize that they
can do something about thesebondages.
They can come out of agreementwith these things.
I wanted to empower them and tolet them know that they can be
free, that freedom is possible.
(18:21):
And Jesus is how He is thepossible, He's the one who makes
it possible.
And so I just wanted to be awitness to his power to deliver
and to set free.
Dr. William Attaway (18:33):
So good.
I really want that message toring loud and clear.
It is possible.
You know, when you are wrappedin those chains, it's very easy
to fall into the lie and listento that lie that you can never
be free.
That there's no way out.
Right.
That it will always be like itis today.
But that's not true.
(18:55):
And what you write about in thebook is the path from where you
are to where you could be.
But you have to choose right.
So if we could sum up yourjourney, I'm I'm just curious.
I'm thinking about you as aleader, and you are a leader.
You have influence, and thatinfluence extends through the
(19:16):
songs that you sing, it extendsthrough the books that you
write, the talks that you giveas you speak.
These are opportunities thatyou have to extend that
influence and leverage that forthe good of the people around
you, helping them to discoverthe freedom that God created
them for.
As I think about you, I thinkabout somebody who, like me and
everybody else I know, is a workin progress.
(19:36):
So I'm going to ask you thisquestion with that in mind.
How do you stay on top of yourgame?
How do you level up with thenew leadership skills that are
going to be required of you inthe years to come?
Ari Williams (19:49):
I stay on my face before the Lord.
And I'm not just sayingphysically, but like it requires
a level of humility and beingwilling to surrender over and
over again.
Even writing writing the bookwas fine.
But then when the Lord startedpressing me to like promote the
book, I started to hit thatmental barrier, like self-doubt,
(20:11):
you know.
But I was able to go past thatbarrier because I already knew
the route out.
I needed to come out ofagreement with every lie of the
enemy and just choose to obeyand not have my faith attached
to the outcome, but have myfaith attached to who God is.
And he is the chainbreaker.
He is the one who is thedeliverer.
(20:32):
He is the one who is thehealer.
He's the great physician.
He is everything that we need.
And so if he wants to use myvoice and my story, whether it
be through song, through being asmall group leader, through
teaching, through writing abook, however that looks, I'm
willing to be obedient.
And I'm also aware of my lackand my inability to do certain
(20:54):
things.
So I'm I'm leaning heavy,heavily on him to be the voice
through me.
Like use my mouth, use me as aninstrument, Lord, to reach the
people that you want to reach.
So I stay on top of my game bystaying in a place of humility
and surrender.
Dr. William Attaway (21:11):
So well said.
You know, you're a continuallearner who wants to continue to
grow beyond where you aretoday.
Is there a book that has made abig difference in your journey
that you would recommend to theleaders who are listening?
Hey, if you haven't read this,this made a big difference for
me.
Ari Williams (21:27):
Permission by Dr.
Jackie Green.
She's Travis Green's wife, andthey have a church out in South
Carolina.
Um, and she has a com apermission conference.
Um, and she wrote a book calledPermission, and that book
really, really made a differencein my life.
Dr. William Attaway (21:42):
I've not read that.
Now I'll have to check that oneout.
Thank you.
Ari, I know our listeners aregonna want to stay connected to
you and continue to learn morefrom you and about your writing
and the books that you have.
What's the best way for peopleto stay in touch with you?
Ari Williams (21:57):
You can get your free copy of The Balanced Mind
at the EmpoweredVoiceAcademy.com.
There you can get all theinformation you need about the
book and about me, all there.
Dr. William Attaway (22:09):
Perfect.
We will have that link in theshow notes, along with links to
your social connections sopeople can follow you and
continue to learn from you.
Ari, thanks so much for yourtime and your generosity today
and sharing so freely from whatyou've learned so far in your
journey.
And I can't wait to see what'snext for you.
Ari Williams (22:29):
Thank you for having me.
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