If revenue is rising but your calendar keeps getting tighter… you may not be scaling. You may just be stuck in the time-for-money trap—and no matter how high your agency climbs, that model will always have a ceiling.
In this episode, I sit down with Eric Burns, founder of Flowers Capital, to unpack what it truly takes to escape that trap and build a business that grows without demanding more of you. Eric’s story isn’t about quick wins or overnight success—it’s about trading hustle for structure, urgency for vision, and effort for scalable impact.
We talk about how to break out of reactive leadership, how Eric used strategic partnerships to replace income with leverage, and what lessons from 17 years as a fire department lieutenant taught him about high-trust, high-performance teams.
If your business relies on you to keep running—if you feel the tension between success and burnout—this conversation will show you what it means to stop solving every problem and start building a company that scales without your shadow over every step.
What We Cover:
- What the time-for-money trap really looks like at 7+ figures
- How to build systems that generate freedom, not just income
- Why reactive leadership keeps teams stagnant and stressed
- How to use mastermind connections to build scalable partnerships
- The leadership shift from firefighting to vision-setting
- Tactical ways to lead through structure instead of stress
📚 Books & Resources Mentioned
- The E-Myth Revisited by Michael Gerber
- Be Your Future Self Now by Dr. Benjamin Hardy
- The Alchemist by Paulo Coelho
- FlowersCapital.com – Free guide: “12 Pitfalls to Avoid in Your Next Real Estate Deal”
Connect with Eric Burns
To connect with Eric, just head over to flowerscapital.com—he’s got a free resource there on 12 pitfalls to avoid in your next real estate deal that’s worth checking out.
🌟 Check out our podcast sponsor, Competitive Edge Business Consulting, and book your free discovery call with them today at www.CompEdgeConsulting.com 🌟
Join Dr. William Attaway on the Catalytic Leadership podcast as he shares transformative insights to help high-performance entrepreneurs and agency owners achieve Clear-Minded Focus, Calm Control, and Confidence.
- Free 30-Minute Discovery Call:
Ready to elevate your business? Book a free 30-minute discovery call with Dr. William Attaway and start your journey to success.
- Special Offer:
Get your FREE copy of Catalytic Leadership: 12 Keys to Becoming an Intentional Leader Who Makes a Difference.
Connect with Dr. William Attaway:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. William Attaway (00:00):
I am so excited today to have Eric Burns
on the podcast.
Eric's the founder of FlowersCapital.
He's a Cincinnati-basedentrepreneur and commercial real
estate professional.
After graduating with a degreein finance and a short stint in
the corporate world, eric'sfirst turning point came when he
joined the Cincinnati FireDepartment.
Serving as a lieutenant for 17years shaped his character.
(00:23):
He gained many of his bestvalues during that time,
including accountability,honesty and self-improvement.
In 2013, eric ventured intoreal estate investing.
He honed his skills and built asuccessful residential real
estate portfolio.
His ability to identifypromising opportunities and his
(00:44):
acquired skill set made thetransition into commercial real
estate very logical.
Driven by his passion forhelping others to achieve
financial freedom, eric foundedFlowers Capital With a focus on
quality, diversification andlong-term success.
He aims to guide investorstoward a brighter financial
(01:05):
future.
Eric, I'm so glad you're here.
Thanks for being on the show.
Eric Burns (01:09):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's great to be on, thank you.
Intro / Outro (01:14):
Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the
podcast designed to help leadersintentionally grow and thrive.
Here is your host author andleadership and executive coach,
dr William Attaway.
Dr. William Attaway (01:31):
Hey Eric, I would love for you to share
some of your story with ourlisteners.
I hit some of the hot points,but I'd love to hear more,
particularly around your journeyand your development as a
leader.
Eric Burns (01:43):
Absolutely Most of my development as a leader came
as a lieutenant in the firedepartment, and it was honestly
something I kind of had to sortout for myself and they didn't
do at that time it was longenough to go, they didn't do
like officer training class oranything for us, and so we were
kind of learning on the fly,kind of figuring out what worked
(02:05):
, and you know, I just kind ofhad to muddle my way through it.
So I figured out some ways notto do it.
I also figured out some reallyuh, some good ways to really uh
interact with my crews and thepeople that were working under
me and really uh lead, lead asin and build a yeah kind of just
(02:26):
build a really solid foundationof trust as well.
Hmm, I love that, yeah.
Dr. William Attaway (02:33):
You know, learning what not to do is
pretty underrated in my opinion.
I think I believe you can learnfrom anybody, sometimes what to
do and sometimes what not to do.
I think that can be incrediblyvaluable.
Eric Burns (02:45):
Absolutely, and, as I'm making mistakes along the
way, one of the things thatpeople really responded to was
just transparency andaccountability.
If I was wrong, if I didn'thandle a situation correctly, I
really went out of my way toremedy it at uh, right away, and
(03:06):
the way I did that was justadmitting my own uh, my own
fault in the matter and just becommitted to evaluate myself and
change.
And I think, when people seeyou doing that, that you're
holding yourself accountable.
I think that I think that's astandard that they pick up on
and they start doing the same.
(03:27):
And when they're getting the,you know, when they're getting
the honesty and you know, andthey have a leader that they're
looking to, that's, you know,willing to, you know, make
mistakes and fix them, thenthey're a lot more willing to do
the same as well, I think.
Dr. William Attaway (03:43):
You know, going from a lieutenant as a
firefighter to real estate,that's a pretty big leap.
What led you to such a dramaticcareer change?
Eric Burns (03:56):
Yeah.
So I honestly had started a fewside hustles over the years
that's just kind of somethingfiremen do and none of them
really panned out.
None of them kind of took offlike I'd hoped and really just
looking to secure a solidfinancial future.
And I was at the kitchen tableand the guys were talking about
their rental properties and itsounded like they were going
(04:18):
well and I thought, well, maybethat'll be my next thing.
So I bought up student housingrental as my first property, as
a side hustle, and I didn't knowhow to be a landlord or
anything like that, and I wentahead and figured that out and
it went well.
So then I just kind of keptgoing down the rabbit hole.
I started renovating twofamilies and things like that,
(04:38):
and that's kind of when it hitme that I was really trading my
time for money and that's mylast pivot into commercial real
estate.
Was that realization and Ireally took the leap just as the
next right move.
And that's the theme in mystory.
Every pivot I've had has justbeen looking at the situation
(05:00):
and looking at the next bestmove I can make.
And even you know, even if it's, you know, maybe a little bit
out of my wheelhouse and youknow just kind of take the leap
and learn and and that's kind of, and that's kind of how I
niched down was you know justkind of the next right thing,
over and over again and andreally it's just, you know, I
(05:22):
think things work out if you'rewilling to step out of your
comfort zone.
Dr. William Attaway (05:26):
You know, one of the things I appreciate
is you often talk about failingforward and the importance of
seeing failure not as the end ofthe road but just as a part of
the journey.
Eric Burns (05:38):
Absolutely, and I really enjoy reframing the
failures as lessons and I thinkit's perspective and there's a
lot of things I've done over theyears that I can look back and
say, oh man, that was a bigmistake, I'd have done it
different.
Or I can say, whoa, that was agood learning experience.
And you know I didn't handle.
(05:59):
You know, you know I didn'thandle this.
You know this renovation rightand it took so long.
And you know I didn't handlethis.
You know this renovation rightand it took so long.
And dah, dah, dah, dah dah.
You know it wasn't a mixed state, it was just a learning lesson
that I can move in, you know,and move into the next one and
just get a little bit betterevery time, just by kind of not
not really beat, you know, justby not beating myself up and and
(06:19):
just being okay with not beingperfect, and not that anybody
likes to mess up and likes tofail, but if you're really kind
of pushing yourself to a higherlevel and trying to excel in any
area, it's just bound to happenand you can look back and think
(06:40):
you're a terrible person.
Or you can look back andevaluate and just kind of look
at the situation and be reallyneutral about your mistakes that
you made and don't take itpersonal and just look back and
say, hey, these are some areasthat I can improve on and do it.
And then the next time you do,you know, then the next time you
(07:02):
do your next remodel, there'llbe other things that come up
that need improvement.
And I think it's just thatconstant reevaluation of your,
of yourself, and not not lettinga failure keep you down, but
using it as a way to you know,to kind of just grow a little
bit at a time.
It'll run over again.
Dr. William Attaway (07:23):
Consistency .
I like that that's really good.
So what moved you?
You said the next right thingwas commercial real estate.
Talk me through that becausepeople who focus on residential.
Typically they don't seecommercial as their next step.
I'd love to hear how you madethat determination.
Eric Burns (07:43):
Yeah, so I really tried to be a lifelong learner,
just in general, and I lovegoing down, I love learning
something new.
And when I started looking intocommercial real estate I saw
that it was scalable and thatthere was an opportunity to have
passive income and really nothave to trade my time for money.
(08:06):
And a lot of the barriers ofentry that would have kept me
from it are eliminated by, youknow, being able to partner with
really good sponsors and reallygood markets.
You know I can get into marketsall over without having to do
the legwork necessarily to getmy market share or anything like
(08:28):
that.
But really the scalability andit seemed like the next right
move because I knew doingrenovations and even with the
contractor it was really just ajob.
And I look back and I thinkabout what I made hourly at my
first job at the golf coursewhen I was 13 all these years
ago, and I'm doing the math andI thought, man, maybe I should
(08:51):
go back to that job.
I think $2.75 an hour isbeating what I got going on now.
But yeah, just being curious ledme to investigate commercial
real estate.
Curious led me to investigatecommercial real estate and then,
when I came to that realization.
I was able to just kind of leaninto that and keep learning a
(09:13):
little more about.
So I learned how to underwrite,then I learned how to deal with
brokers and I learned about howto put together partnerships
and I realized that my skill setwas really more complimentary
to raising capital for the othersponsors who were doing that
way better than me.
So, being able to partner withthem and partner with the right
(09:36):
people, I think it gave me theability to really grow in the
commercial space rather thanhave to, you know, really figure
it out on my own, because itcan be overwhelming, or it can
be, or you can learn from otherpeople and it can be a lot
steeper learning curve.
Dr. William Attaway (09:54):
Well, and I think the people you surround
yourself with contribute so muchto your success or failure.
You know it's finding the rightpeople to run with the right
people to learn from and learnalongside.
What has your experience beenlike with community or with
other entrepreneurs, maybe in amastermind or something like
that?
Eric Burns (10:12):
Yeah, I love that question because I'm a huge
proponent of masterminds andsurrounding yourself with
community.
And when we're out doing ourentrepreneurial thing, not
everybody really understands us.
They see us beating our headagainst the wall and they go why
are you doing this?
And then your kind of onlyanswer is like, well, I bet on
myself a long time ago and now Ikind of don't know what else to
(10:33):
do.
But other people you know,other entrepreneurs, get that.
So I'm in a mastermind.
I've been a few different onesand every you know every you
know every so often it's time tofind a new one to grow into,
and the one I'm in now is justreally a great group of people.
They're supportive.
It helps me hold myselfaccountable to the progress I'm
(10:56):
making, and most of my sponsorsthat I work with have come out
of masterminds specifically justby knowing people on a very
organic level first and thenknowing I want to work with them
, and then their markets arealways good and their deals are
always good, you know.
So having that good sponsorrelationship as the starting
(11:17):
point really kind of lets thatother stuff fall in place.
But I think that any mastermindyou're in, if it's the right
one, whether it's a generalentrepreneurship one, whether
it's commercial real estate,real estate in general.
I think it steepens yourlearning curve so much and you
save years of trying to figurestuff out on your own.
(11:39):
And you know, just having beingsurrounded with great people is
an ancillary benefit.
Dr. William Attaway (11:46):
I would agree.
I mean, the mastermind that I'ma part of personally has helped
me to go so much farther than Ithink I would have gone to this
point in my business.
You know, because of the peoplearound me who do speak those
words of encouragement andchallenge, who provide that
accountability, who are going toask questions, you know that
(12:06):
maybe nobody else is asking.
Eric Burns (12:08):
And they serve as a great example.
And I always like, when you'repicking a mastermind, always
find one where you're humbleenough to ask the stupid
questions.
But if you find a mastermindwhere you can ask them and the
other members don't make youfeel stupid, you're onto
something because you're withpeople that want to grow with
you.
Dr. William Attaway (12:26):
That's right.
So well said, so well said.
So, thinking about theentrepreneurial journey, I love
how you said you know you needto stop trading time for money.
I think that is so often what Iwatch entrepreneurs do they
build their business, but reallywhat they're doing is they're
building a job.
Eric Burns (12:46):
Absolutely.
Dr. William Attaway (12:47):
They're trading their 9 to 5 for a 6 am
to 9 pm job, and you're workingharder and longer than ever
before, but you're not seeingthe reward, you're not seeing
the fruit, and so often theclarity that comes from setting
goals is a big piece of that.
What does goal setting looklike for you?
Eric Burns (13:10):
So another question I love.
I set huge goals for my 10years and I read a great book,
be your Future Self Now thatBenjamin Hardy makes a great
point regarding goal setting andthat being that your 10 year
goal should seem unachievablebecause your current self.
It is unachievable.
But if you start pursuing yourgoals and even consider them as
(13:35):
hurdles because you're going tohit them and then you're going
to need something bigger, but myfive year self will be so much
more capable that that 10 yeargoal will not seem as daunting
and it might be too small.
I might have to reset it atfive years and it's just really.
I think when you do set thosehuge goals, it puts everything
(13:57):
else in perspective, all thelittle things you're working on
today.
You know, you have an idea ofwhat your, what your big goal is
and you go okay.
So it's just a little stepright now.
It's just one step in thatdirection, rather than all
consuming, you know, on a dailybasis.
And to be able to just havethat North Star and encourage
(14:22):
you to do the day, encourage meto do the daily steps, the
monotonous things that you know.
There's always a monotony thatwe don't like and I and you know
another great book I read is amandatory reading for
entrepreneurs.
Out there is the E-MythRevisited.
Such a great book when we weretalking about entrepreneurs
(14:43):
being unable to transition outof trading their time for money,
and I highly recommend thatbook as mandatory reading
because he does a really greatjob of explaining how a
tradesman or the worker then allof a sudden has to be, you know
, the manager and then thebusiness owner and just really
(15:05):
take on a new role and a newmindset at every turn.
And whether you're you knowwhether you're going completely
passive in an investment likecommercial real estate, or
you're scaling your business tobe able to automate these things
and free up your time andreallocate that either to the
things that you excel at or toother things that matter too,
(15:25):
like experiences and spendingtime with people and all these
other things that time and moneycan afford you.
Really, that's so good.
Dr. William Attaway (15:38):
You know when you think about your
business and you know theleadership that you are
providing in your business rightnow.
So many of us can see withclarity of other people's
businesses, but we have troublewith our own.
If I could snap my fingers andright now solve one problem in
your business, what would youwant that to be?
Eric Burns (15:59):
Oh, investor sentiment, 100%, 100% investor
sentiment.
Other than that, personallydefinitely my organization being
able to just kind ofcomfortably manage a day without
going.
Oh man, I forgot something, andthat really kind of throws you
off when you're doubling backand you forget something.
So but yeah, maybe be a littlemore organized and you know
(16:22):
things like that track bettertoo.
Dr. William Attaway (16:25):
Absolutely.
I love that.
You know your business requiresyou to lead at a higher level
today, eric, than it did three,four, five years ago, and that
same thing is going to be truethree, four, five years from now
.
Three, four five years ago, andthat same thing is going to be
true three, four, five yearsfrom now.
So how do you level up with thenew leadership skills that your
(16:46):
business is going to requireyou to have?
How do you stay on top of yourgame?
Eric Burns (16:50):
So valuing my leadership.
You know, what I valued aboutmy time in the fire department
was that we were growingtogether and we were supporting
each other.
And to take that philosophy andsay, you know, whether I'm
working with an investor or asponsor, to just say these are
relationships that I want togrow in and and to use
(17:13):
accountability, whether it's,you know, just evaluating myself
and being able to grow along,or saying, or just saying, hey,
I completely missed that email.
I am, you know, I need to bemore organized, you know, and
take it to heart, be willing tochange.
(17:34):
But really I enjoy looking atthose partnerships and investor
relationships as areas to growin.
So being able to write contentand educate investors where they
need it and kind of just workthrough this together so they
can become better investors.
(17:54):
I can become a better capitalraiser and financial freedom is
supposed to be fun.
So if you're sitting therestressing about your passive
investment, that kind of defeatsthe purpose.
We want passive investment sowe don't have to worry about
that.
That's right.
So, yeah, just being able totake the loyalty, the honesty
(18:19):
and things like that and buildlegitimate relationships that we
can grow together in.
Dr. William Attaway (18:28):
That's really good If we could go back
in time and we could talk toEric, who was the lieutenant in
the fire department.
Knowing what you know now, whatwould you love to go back and
tell yourself?
Eric Burns (18:43):
Don't hold things in , don't let things simmer.
If there's an issue, address itimmediately.
And I think that a lot of themistakes I made early on was not
being comfortable having hardconversations and and kind of
what I changed.
It was a couple of years intomy promotion and I realized, you
(19:04):
know, if I have to sit someonedown and talk about their
performance and where they needto improve and why they're not
doing a good job, it shouldn'tbe uncomfortable for me because
I'm doing the right thing, youknow, I'm being honest with them
and so they're aware and theyhave the chance to improve when,
if you're not willing to havetough conversations like that as
(19:26):
a leader, then it's reallydifficult to get people to the
level and and understand yourexpectations.
And it shouldn't beuncomfortable for me because
that is my job.
That's the right thing to do.
If they're messing up like thatand they're uncomfortable having
that conversation, not my fault, you're the one messing up,
(19:46):
right?
I'm just here to let you knowand always offer a solution, and
I always ended thoseconversations with okay.
So that's where we are, like,what do you need from me to help
you do this and brainstorm andlet them know that you know it's
not just me yelling at you,cause I I really wasn't a yeller
(20:08):
at all.
Um, occasionally I did and Ihad to apologize for there there
were a couple of times, butreally, you know, I wasn't, uh,
you know, that much of a yelleror, uh, you know, dictator or
anything like that.
Um, so I think, being able tobe approachable like that, I
think people you know reallyappreciated.
(20:31):
You know, and they knew I meantit when I said what can I do to
help you?
You know I had a track recordof trying to do right by them.
Then they know, okay, well, hedoes care.
Like it's not that wasn't asbad of a conversation as it
could have been.
Dr. William Attaway (20:45):
Like it's not that wasn't as bad of a
conversation as it could havebeen, and really, when someone's
there to push you and offerhelp and guidance, then it's a
little bit easier to kind of goin and do that same thing, you
know, and really kind ofevaluate and go from there.
That's good.
I think you keyed in onsomething that I find with the
clients that I work with, thatcan be a real challenge, which
(21:06):
is having difficultconversations, and so often
people will run to one of twoextremes they either run to
avoidance and just hope that itwill get better on its own.
It never does right, or in anunhealthy way, they just go into
full-on attack mode, and that'snot healthy either, because
(21:28):
then you're creating anadversarial relationship.
Eric Burns (21:31):
Absolutely.
Dr. William Attaway (21:32):
I love the way you describe it.
Eric Burns (21:33):
You're creating a relationship where they're not,
you're really losing trust withthem.
Yes, and honestly, when I didgo into nuclear mode or whatever
, it was always because I letthings simmer and I let them
bother me and I didn't addressit right away.
So seeing a problem and juststepping right in, getting after
(21:53):
it and fixing it is what helpedmy, helped me really kind of
develop as a leading from thefront rather than being a
reactionary, I think.
Dr. William Attaway (22:05):
That's very good, if you know, and, to use
the firefighting analogy this iswhat I often use with clients
If your day as an entrepreneuris just moving from fire to fire
, just putting out this fire,this fire, this fire, this fire,
go to bed, get up tomorrow, doit all again.
You are reacting, you areleading in a reactionary way and
there's a better way to beproactive and helping people
(22:29):
understand this and learn how tolead proactively to pre-decide
what your priorities are, toprioritize, based on your
long-term goals, not based onthe fire of the moment or what
somebody else thinks yourpriority should be.
I think it's one of the skillsthat is so important for
business owners.
Eric Burns (22:47):
Yeah, absolutely, and I think being able to look
at a situation and if you can'tidentify what the expectations
are really clearly, then it'slikely that the people working
for you don't know theexpectations, and that's not
fair either.
That's exactly right To beabundantly clear about what
(23:08):
you're expecting, when you'reexpecting it, how you're
expecting it, and I think thatsolves a lot of problems up
front.
So when you come in and havethose hard conversations, they
know what you want from them andit's just a reminder, and it's
really just a heads up andsaying, hey, you can do a better
job and I want you to do abetter job because you're better
(23:30):
than that and I know you're, Iknow you can do a better job.
And really taking that hardconversation and transforming it
into a rhetoric where there's aspirit of support and honesty
really went a long way with me,as people were getting to know
me, working for me, or just kindof understanding what I was
(23:52):
about and developing that trustmoving forward also.
Dr. William Attaway (23:58):
Love that You've mentioned a number of
books so far.
I'm just curious, as somebodywho is a continual learner is
there a book that's made atremendous difference in your
journey that you would recommendto the leaders who are
listening?
Hey, if you haven't read thisone, check it out.
Eric Burns (24:14):
Ooh, that's a tough one.
I know my go-to commercial realestate book was the best ever
syndication book.
So if you're looking atcommercial real estate, that's
kind of the playbook as far asjust kind of general books that
you know I've read all the allthese initial real estate books.
A lot of people say rich dad,poor dad, and I don't think
there was necessarily one bookthat changed my trajectory as
(24:38):
far as that's concerned.
But just being a lifelong, youknow, just really committing to
learning more than more than onesingle book Cause there was
always.
Even if it was a little bitredundant, there's always a
little bit something you canfind in it.
Always always kind of be on thesearch for, you know, learning
something new and and and soit's something I enjoy.
(24:59):
Definitely my favorite booksprobably Alchemist by Paulo
Coelho, and that's.
It's a.
It's a fiction, but still agreat one.
I haven't read it.
Dr. William Attaway (25:09):
I gotta check that one out, oh yeah
that's wonderful.
Eric, this has been a fantasticconversation.
This touched on so manydifferent things and I know our
listeners are going to want tostay connected to you and
continue to learn from you andmore about what you're doing.
What is the best way for themto do that?
Eric Burns (25:26):
Absolutely Aside from LinkedIn.
You can go to flowerscapitalcomand there's actually a free
article on 12 pitfalls to avoidin your next real estate deal,
to kind of wade your way throughchallenging times, you know.
Dr. William Attaway (25:39):
Love that.
We'll have those links in theshow notes.
Eric Burns (25:41):
Perfect.
Dr. William Attaway (25:42):
Eric, thank you so much for your time and
your generosity today andsharing from what you've learned
.
I am so excited today to have Eric Burns
on the podcast.
Eric's the founder of FlowersCapital.
He's a Cincinnati-basedentrepreneur and commercial real
estate professional.
After graduating with a degreein finance and a short stint in
the corporate world, eric'sfirst turning point came when he
joined the Cincinnati FireDepartment.
Serving as a lieutenant for 17years shaped his character.
(00:23):
He gained many of his bestvalues during that time,
including accountability,honesty and self-improvement.
In 2013, eric ventured intoreal estate investing.
He honed his skills and built asuccessful residential real
estate portfolio.
His ability to identifypromising opportunities and his
(00:44):
acquired skill set made thetransition into commercial real
estate very logical.
Driven by his passion forhelping others to achieve
financial freedom, eric foundedFlowers Capital With a focus on
quality, diversification andlong-term success.
He aims to guide investorstoward a brighter financial
(01:05):
future.
Eric, I'm so glad you're here.
Thanks for being on the show.
Eric Burns (01:09):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's great to be on, thank you.
Intro / Outro (01:14):
Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the
podcast designed to help leadersintentionally grow and thrive.
Here is your host author andleadership and executive coach,
dr William Attaway.
Dr. William Attaway (01:31):
Hey Eric, I would love for you to share
some of your story with ourlisteners.
I hit some of the hot points,but I'd love to hear more,
particularly around your journeyand your development as a
leader.
Eric Burns (01:43):
Absolutely Most of my development as a leader came
as a lieutenant in the firedepartment, and it was honestly
something I kind of had to sortout for myself and they didn't
do at that time it was longenough to go, they didn't do
like officer training class oranything for us, and so we were
kind of learning on the fly,kind of figuring out what worked
(02:05):
, and you know, I just kind ofhad to muddle my way through it.
So I figured out some ways notto do it.
I also figured out some reallyuh, some good ways to really uh
interact with my crews and thepeople that were working under
me and really uh lead, lead asin and build a yeah kind of just
(02:26):
build a really solid foundationof trust as well.
Hmm, I love that, yeah.
Dr. William Attaway (02:33):
You know, learning what not to do is
pretty underrated in my opinion.
I think I believe you can learnfrom anybody, sometimes what to
do and sometimes what not to do.
I think that can be incrediblyvaluable.
Eric Burns (02:45):
Absolutely, and, as I'm making mistakes along the
way, one of the things thatpeople really responded to was
just transparency andaccountability.
If I was wrong, if I didn'thandle a situation correctly, I
really went out of my way toremedy it at uh, right away, and
(03:06):
the way I did that was justadmitting my own uh, my own
fault in the matter and just becommitted to evaluate myself and
change.
And I think, when people seeyou doing that, that you're
holding yourself accountable.
I think that I think that's astandard that they pick up on
and they start doing the same.
(03:27):
And when they're getting the,you know, when they're getting
the honesty and you know, andthey have a leader that they're
looking to, that's, you know,willing to, you know, make
mistakes and fix them, thenthey're a lot more willing to do
the same as well, I think.
Dr. William Attaway (03:43):
You know, going from a lieutenant as a
firefighter to real estate,that's a pretty big leap.
What led you to such a dramaticcareer change?
Eric Burns (03:56):
Yeah.
So I honestly had started a fewside hustles over the years
that's just kind of somethingfiremen do and none of them
really panned out.
None of them kind of took offlike I'd hoped and really just
looking to secure a solidfinancial future.
And I was at the kitchen tableand the guys were talking about
their rental properties and itsounded like they were going
(04:18):
well and I thought, well, maybethat'll be my next thing.
So I bought up student housingrental as my first property, as
a side hustle, and I didn't knowhow to be a landlord or
anything like that, and I wentahead and figured that out and
it went well.
So then I just kind of keptgoing down the rabbit hole.
I started renovating twofamilies and things like that,
(04:38):
and that's kind of when it hitme that I was really trading my
time for money and that's mylast pivot into commercial real
estate.
Was that realization and Ireally took the leap just as the
next right move.
And that's the theme in mystory.
Every pivot I've had has justbeen looking at the situation
(05:00):
and looking at the next bestmove I can make.
And even you know, even if it's, you know, maybe a little bit
out of my wheelhouse and youknow just kind of take the leap
and learn and and that's kind of, and that's kind of how I
niched down was you know justkind of the next right thing,
over and over again and andreally it's just, you know, I
(05:22):
think things work out if you'rewilling to step out of your
comfort zone.
Dr. William Attaway (05:26):
You know, one of the things I appreciate
is you often talk about failingforward and the importance of
seeing failure not as the end ofthe road but just as a part of
the journey.
Eric Burns (05:38):
Absolutely, and I really enjoy reframing the
failures as lessons and I thinkit's perspective and there's a
lot of things I've done over theyears that I can look back and
say, oh man, that was a bigmistake, I'd have done it
different.
Or I can say, whoa, that was agood learning experience.
And you know I didn't handle.
(05:59):
You know, you know I didn'thandle this.
You know this renovation rightand it took so long.
And you know I didn't handlethis.
You know this renovation rightand it took so long.
And dah, dah, dah, dah dah.
You know it wasn't a mixed state, it was just a learning lesson
that I can move in, you know,and move into the next one and
just get a little bit betterevery time, just by kind of not
not really beat, you know, justby not beating myself up and and
(06:19):
just being okay with not beingperfect, and not that anybody
likes to mess up and likes tofail, but if you're really kind
of pushing yourself to a higherlevel and trying to excel in any
area, it's just bound to happenand you can look back and think
(06:40):
you're a terrible person.
Or you can look back andevaluate and just kind of look
at the situation and be reallyneutral about your mistakes that
you made and don't take itpersonal and just look back and
say, hey, these are some areasthat I can improve on and do it.
And then the next time you do,you know, then the next time you
(07:02):
do your next remodel, there'llbe other things that come up
that need improvement.
And I think it's just thatconstant reevaluation of your,
of yourself, and not not lettinga failure keep you down, but
using it as a way to you know,to kind of just grow a little
bit at a time.
It'll run over again.
Dr. William Attaway (07:23):
Consistency .
I like that that's really good.
So what moved you?
You said the next right thingwas commercial real estate.
Talk me through that becausepeople who focus on residential.
Typically they don't seecommercial as their next step.
I'd love to hear how you madethat determination.
Eric Burns (07:43):
Yeah, so I really tried to be a lifelong learner,
just in general, and I lovegoing down, I love learning
something new.
And when I started looking intocommercial real estate I saw
that it was scalable and thatthere was an opportunity to have
passive income and really nothave to trade my time for money.
(08:06):
And a lot of the barriers ofentry that would have kept me
from it are eliminated by, youknow, being able to partner with
really good sponsors and reallygood markets.
You know I can get into marketsall over without having to do
the legwork necessarily to getmy market share or anything like
(08:28):
that.
But really the scalability andit seemed like the next right
move because I knew doingrenovations and even with the
contractor it was really just ajob.
And I look back and I thinkabout what I made hourly at my
first job at the golf coursewhen I was 13 all these years
ago, and I'm doing the math andI thought, man, maybe I should
(08:51):
go back to that job.
I think $2.75 an hour isbeating what I got going on now.
But yeah, just being curious ledme to investigate commercial
real estate.
Curious led me to investigatecommercial real estate and then,
when I came to that realization.
I was able to just kind of leaninto that and keep learning a
(09:13):
little more about.
So I learned how to underwrite,then I learned how to deal with
brokers and I learned about howto put together partnerships
and I realized that my skill setwas really more complimentary
to raising capital for the othersponsors who were doing that
way better than me.
So, being able to partner withthem and partner with the right
(09:36):
people, I think it gave me theability to really grow in the
commercial space rather thanhave to, you know, really figure
it out on my own, because itcan be overwhelming, or it can
be, or you can learn from otherpeople and it can be a lot
steeper learning curve.
Dr. William Attaway (09:54):
Well, and I think the people you surround
yourself with contribute so muchto your success or failure.
You know it's finding the rightpeople to run with the right
people to learn from and learnalongside.
What has your experience beenlike with community or with
other entrepreneurs, maybe in amastermind or something like
that?
Eric Burns (10:12):
Yeah, I love that question because I'm a huge
proponent of masterminds andsurrounding yourself with
community.
And when we're out doing ourentrepreneurial thing, not
everybody really understands us.
They see us beating our headagainst the wall and they go why
are you doing this?
And then your kind of onlyanswer is like, well, I bet on
myself a long time ago and now Ikind of don't know what else to
(10:33):
do.
But other people you know,other entrepreneurs, get that.
So I'm in a mastermind.
I've been a few different onesand every you know every you
know every so often it's time tofind a new one to grow into,
and the one I'm in now is justreally a great group of people.
They're supportive.
It helps me hold myselfaccountable to the progress I'm
(10:56):
making, and most of my sponsorsthat I work with have come out
of masterminds specifically justby knowing people on a very
organic level first and thenknowing I want to work with them
, and then their markets arealways good and their deals are
always good, you know.
So having that good sponsorrelationship as the starting
(11:17):
point really kind of lets thatother stuff fall in place.
But I think that any mastermindyou're in, if it's the right
one, whether it's a generalentrepreneurship one, whether
it's commercial real estate,real estate in general.
I think it steepens yourlearning curve so much and you
save years of trying to figurestuff out on your own.
(11:39):
And you know, just having beingsurrounded with great people is
an ancillary benefit.
Dr. William Attaway (11:46):
I would agree.
I mean, the mastermind that I'ma part of personally has helped
me to go so much farther than Ithink I would have gone to this
point in my business.
You know, because of the peoplearound me who do speak those
words of encouragement andchallenge, who provide that
accountability, who are going toask questions, you know that
(12:06):
maybe nobody else is asking.
Eric Burns (12:08):
And they serve as a great example.
And I always like, when you'repicking a mastermind, always
find one where you're humbleenough to ask the stupid
questions.
But if you find a mastermindwhere you can ask them and the
other members don't make youfeel stupid, you're onto
something because you're withpeople that want to grow with
you.
Dr. William Attaway (12:26):
That's right.
So well said, so well said.
So, thinking about theentrepreneurial journey, I love
how you said you know you needto stop trading time for money.
I think that is so often what Iwatch entrepreneurs do they
build their business, but reallywhat they're doing is they're
building a job.
Eric Burns (12:46):
Absolutely.
Dr. William Attaway (12:47):
They're trading their 9 to 5 for a 6 am
to 9 pm job, and you're workingharder and longer than ever
before, but you're not seeingthe reward, you're not seeing
the fruit, and so often theclarity that comes from setting
goals is a big piece of that.
What does goal setting looklike for you?
Eric Burns (13:10):
So another question I love.
I set huge goals for my 10years and I read a great book,
be your Future Self Now thatBenjamin Hardy makes a great
point regarding goal setting andthat being that your 10 year
goal should seem unachievablebecause your current self.
It is unachievable.
But if you start pursuing yourgoals and even consider them as
(13:35):
hurdles because you're going tohit them and then you're going
to need something bigger, but myfive year self will be so much
more capable that that 10 yeargoal will not seem as daunting
and it might be too small.
I might have to reset it atfive years and it's just really.
I think when you do set thosehuge goals, it puts everything
(13:57):
else in perspective, all thelittle things you're working on
today.
You know, you have an idea ofwhat your, what your big goal is
and you go okay.
So it's just a little stepright now.
It's just one step in thatdirection, rather than all
consuming, you know, on a dailybasis.
And to be able to just havethat North Star and encourage
(14:22):
you to do the day, encourage meto do the daily steps, the
monotonous things that you know.
There's always a monotony thatwe don't like and I and you know
another great book I read is amandatory reading for
entrepreneurs.
Out there is the E-MythRevisited.
Such a great book when we weretalking about entrepreneurs
(14:43):
being unable to transition outof trading their time for money,
and I highly recommend thatbook as mandatory reading
because he does a really greatjob of explaining how a
tradesman or the worker then allof a sudden has to be, you know
, the manager and then thebusiness owner and just really
(15:05):
take on a new role and a newmindset at every turn.
And whether you're you knowwhether you're going completely
passive in an investment likecommercial real estate, or
you're scaling your business tobe able to automate these things
and free up your time andreallocate that either to the
things that you excel at or toother things that matter too,
(15:25):
like experiences and spendingtime with people and all these
other things that time and moneycan afford you.
Really, that's so good.
Dr. William Attaway (15:38):
You know when you think about your
business and you know theleadership that you are
providing in your business rightnow.
So many of us can see withclarity of other people's
businesses, but we have troublewith our own.
If I could snap my fingers andright now solve one problem in
your business, what would youwant that to be?
Eric Burns (15:59):
Oh, investor sentiment, 100%, 100% investor
sentiment.
Other than that, personallydefinitely my organization being
able to just kind ofcomfortably manage a day without
going.
Oh man, I forgot something, andthat really kind of throws you
off when you're doubling backand you forget something.
So but yeah, maybe be a littlemore organized and you know
(16:22):
things like that track bettertoo.
Dr. William Attaway (16:25):
Absolutely.
I love that.
You know your business requiresyou to lead at a higher level
today, eric, than it did three,four, five years ago, and that
same thing is going to be truethree, four, five years from now
.
Three, four five years ago, andthat same thing is going to be
true three, four, five yearsfrom now.
So how do you level up with thenew leadership skills that your
(16:46):
business is going to requireyou to have?
How do you stay on top of yourgame?
Eric Burns (16:50):
So valuing my leadership.
You know, what I valued aboutmy time in the fire department
was that we were growingtogether and we were supporting
each other.
And to take that philosophy andsay, you know, whether I'm
working with an investor or asponsor, to just say these are
relationships that I want togrow in and and to use
(17:13):
accountability, whether it's,you know, just evaluating myself
and being able to grow along,or saying, or just saying, hey,
I completely missed that email.
I am, you know, I need to bemore organized, you know, and
take it to heart, be willing tochange.
(17:34):
But really I enjoy looking atthose partnerships and investor
relationships as areas to growin.
So being able to write contentand educate investors where they
need it and kind of just workthrough this together so they
can become better investors.
(17:54):
I can become a better capitalraiser and financial freedom is
supposed to be fun.
So if you're sitting therestressing about your passive
investment, that kind of defeatsthe purpose.
We want passive investment sowe don't have to worry about
that.
That's right.
So, yeah, just being able totake the loyalty, the honesty
(18:19):
and things like that and buildlegitimate relationships that we
can grow together in.
Dr. William Attaway (18:28):
That's really good If we could go back
in time and we could talk toEric, who was the lieutenant in
the fire department.
Knowing what you know now, whatwould you love to go back and
tell yourself?
Eric Burns (18:43):
Don't hold things in , don't let things simmer.
If there's an issue, address itimmediately.
And I think that a lot of themistakes I made early on was not
being comfortable having hardconversations and and kind of
what I changed.
It was a couple of years intomy promotion and I realized, you
(19:04):
know, if I have to sit someonedown and talk about their
performance and where they needto improve and why they're not
doing a good job, it shouldn'tbe uncomfortable for me because
I'm doing the right thing, youknow, I'm being honest with them
and so they're aware and theyhave the chance to improve when,
if you're not willing to havetough conversations like that as
(19:26):
a leader, then it's reallydifficult to get people to the
level and and understand yourexpectations.
And it shouldn't beuncomfortable for me because
that is my job.
That's the right thing to do.
If they're messing up like thatand they're uncomfortable having
that conversation, not my fault, you're the one messing up,
(19:46):
right?
I'm just here to let you knowand always offer a solution, and
I always ended thoseconversations with okay.
So that's where we are, like,what do you need from me to help
you do this and brainstorm andlet them know that you know it's
not just me yelling at you,cause I I really wasn't a yeller
(20:08):
at all.
Um, occasionally I did and Ihad to apologize for there there
were a couple of times, butreally, you know, I wasn't, uh,
you know, that much of a yelleror, uh, you know, dictator or
anything like that.
Um, so I think, being able tobe approachable like that, I
think people you know reallyappreciated.
(20:31):
You know, and they knew I meantit when I said what can I do to
help you?
You know I had a track recordof trying to do right by them.
Then they know, okay, well, hedoes care.
Like it's not that wasn't asbad of a conversation as it
could have been.
Dr. William Attaway (20:45):
Like it's not that wasn't as bad of a
conversation as it could havebeen, and really, when someone's
there to push you and offerhelp and guidance, then it's a
little bit easier to kind of goin and do that same thing, you
know, and really kind ofevaluate and go from there.
That's good.
I think you keyed in onsomething that I find with the
clients that I work with, thatcan be a real challenge, which
(21:06):
is having difficultconversations, and so often
people will run to one of twoextremes they either run to
avoidance and just hope that itwill get better on its own.
It never does right, or in anunhealthy way, they just go into
full-on attack mode, and that'snot healthy either, because
(21:28):
then you're creating anadversarial relationship.
Eric Burns (21:31):
Absolutely.
Dr. William Attaway (21:32):
I love the way you describe it.
Eric Burns (21:33):
You're creating a relationship where they're not,
you're really losing trust withthem.
Yes, and honestly, when I didgo into nuclear mode or whatever
, it was always because I letthings simmer and I let them
bother me and I didn't addressit right away.
So seeing a problem and juststepping right in, getting after
(21:53):
it and fixing it is what helpedmy, helped me really kind of
develop as a leading from thefront rather than being a
reactionary, I think.
Dr. William Attaway (22:05):
That's very good, if you know, and, to use
the firefighting analogy this iswhat I often use with clients
If your day as an entrepreneuris just moving from fire to fire
, just putting out this fire,this fire, this fire, this fire,
go to bed, get up tomorrow, doit all again.
You are reacting, you areleading in a reactionary way and
there's a better way to beproactive and helping people
(22:29):
understand this and learn how tolead proactively to pre-decide
what your priorities are, toprioritize, based on your
long-term goals, not based onthe fire of the moment or what
somebody else thinks yourpriority should be.
I think it's one of the skillsthat is so important for
business owners.
Eric Burns (22:47):
Yeah, absolutely, and I think being able to look
at a situation and if you can'tidentify what the expectations
are really clearly, then it'slikely that the people working
for you don't know theexpectations, and that's not
fair either.
That's exactly right To beabundantly clear about what
(23:08):
you're expecting, when you'reexpecting it, how you're
expecting it, and I think thatsolves a lot of problems up
front.
So when you come in and havethose hard conversations, they
know what you want from them andit's just a reminder, and it's
really just a heads up andsaying, hey, you can do a better
job and I want you to do abetter job because you're better
(23:30):
than that and I know you're, Iknow you can do a better job.
And really taking that hardconversation and transforming it
into a rhetoric where there's aspirit of support and honesty
really went a long way with me,as people were getting to know
me, working for me, or just kindof understanding what I was
(23:52):
about and developing that trustmoving forward also.
Dr. William Attaway (23:58):
Love that You've mentioned a number of
books so far.
I'm just curious, as somebodywho is a continual learner is
there a book that's made atremendous difference in your
journey that you would recommendto the leaders who are
listening?
Hey, if you haven't read thisone, check it out.
Eric Burns (24:14):
Ooh, that's a tough one.
I know my go-to commercial realestate book was the best ever
syndication book.
So if you're looking atcommercial real estate, that's
kind of the playbook as far asjust kind of general books that
you know I've read all the allthese initial real estate books.
A lot of people say rich dad,poor dad, and I don't think
there was necessarily one bookthat changed my trajectory as
(24:38):
far as that's concerned.
But just being a lifelong, youknow, just really committing to
learning more than more than onesingle book Cause there was
always.
Even if it was a little bitredundant, there's always a
little bit something you canfind in it.
Always always kind of be on thesearch for, you know, learning
something new and and and soit's something I enjoy.
(24:59):
Definitely my favorite booksprobably Alchemist by Paulo
Coelho, and that's.
It's a.
It's a fiction, but still agreat one.
I haven't read it.
Dr. William Attaway (25:09):
I gotta check that one out, oh yeah
that's wonderful.
Eric, this has been a fantasticconversation.
This touched on so manydifferent things and I know our
listeners are going to want tostay connected to you and
continue to learn from you andmore about what you're doing.
What is the best way for themto do that?
Eric Burns (25:26):
Absolutely Aside from LinkedIn.
You can go to flowerscapitalcomand there's actually a free
article on 12 pitfalls to avoidin your next real estate deal,
to kind of wade your way throughchallenging times, you know.
Dr. William Attaway (25:39):
Love that.
We'll have those links in theshow notes.
Eric Burns (25:41):
Perfect.
Dr. William Attaway (25:42):
Eric, thank you so much for your time and
your generosity today andsharing from what you've learned
.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.