September 11, 2023 • 40 mins
Ever wished you could stick your hand into the magical hat of podcasting and pull out a success? You're in luck. Today's chat with Tracy Hazzard, the media savant and co-founder of Podetize, will unravel the secrets of the podcasting world, offering you a peek into her toolbox of strategies. With Tracy as our guide, we explore the elements that make a podcast truly binge-worthy, and the ways in which she remains a titan in an industry that never stops evolving.
Podcasting isn't just about content; it's also about how you leverage opportunities and make the most of the tools at your disposal. For instance, imagine transforming your email conversion rates using something as simple as audio promotions. Tracy takes us down that road, sharing her experiences and strategies that could lead to a significant uptick in your click-through numbers. Not only that, but she also enlightens us on how AI is revolutionizing podcasting, from creating a brand-new show to improving workflow efficiency. Add to that a lively discussion about the importance of a resource library, and you've got a powerhouse of insights.
But Tracy's ingenuity doesn't stop there. She shares the journey of innovation that took two and a half years to build something that didn't exist yet, and how it's scoring big with podcasts. Get a glimpse into her strategies to resurrect old content and make it shine again. Beyond that, in the entrepreneurial world, she stresses the importance of making smart cuts and building value. From using provisional patents to save money to her best advice for entrepreneurs, this episode is packed with wisdom that could be the game-changer for your business. Join us for a fascinating conversation with Tracy Hazzard that promises to be as insightful as it is inspiring.
Join Dr. William Attaway on the Catalytic Leadership podcast as he shares transformative insights to help high-performance entrepreneurs and agency owners achieve Clear-Minded Focus, Calm Control, and Confidence.
- Free 30-Minute Discovery Call:
Ready to elevate your business? Book a free 30-minute discovery call with Dr. William Attaway and start your journey to success.
- Special Offer:
Get your FREE copy of Catalytic Leadership: 12 Keys to Becoming an Intentional Leader Who Makes a Difference.
Connect with Dr. William Attaway:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the podcast designed
to help leaders intentionallygrow and thrive.
Here is your host author andleadership and executive coach,
dr William Attaway.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hey, it's William and welcome to today's episode of
the Catalytic Leadership podcast.
Each week, we tackle a topicrelated to the field of
leadership.
My goal is to ensure that youhave actionable steps you can
take from each episode to growin your own leadership.
Growth doesn't just happen.
My goal is to help you becomeintentional about it.
(00:37):
Each week, we spotlight leadersfrom a variety of fields,
organizations and locations.
My goal is for you to see thatleaders can be catalytic, no
matter where they are or whatthey lead.
I draw inspiration from thestories and journeys of these
leaders and I hear from many ofyou that you do too.
(00:57):
Let's jump in to today'sinterview.
I am thrilled today to haveTracy Hazard on the show.
Tracy is a seasoned mediaexpert with over 2,600
interviews from articles inAuthority Magazine, buzzfeed and
her Ink Magazine column, andfrom her multiple top ranked
video casts and podcasts likethe Binge Factor and Feed your
(01:20):
Brand, one of CIO's top 26entrepreneur success.
As CEO and co-founder ofPodiatize, tracy brings diverse
views from what works and whatdoesn't work in marketing and
media, from thought leaders andindustry icons, redefining
success around the globe.
Tracy's unique gift to thepodcasting, marketing and
(01:42):
branding world is being able toidentify that unique bingeable
factor, the thing that makespeople come back again and again
and actively share as ravingfans and buy everything you have
to sell, tracy.
I'm so excited for thisconversation.
Thank you for being here.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Oh, I'm so excited to be here and get to chat back
with you again, because you wereon my show already.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Absolutely.
I would love for you to sharesome of your story Tracy with
our listeners, particularlyaround your journey and your
development as a leader.
How did you get started?
Speaker 3 (02:17):
You know, I think sometimes leaders are born and
this is really how I feel aboutit.
It was one of those aha momentssomewhere in college where I
realized I was making choices,and decisions for the group.
I was already a leader right,nice, nice.
How that happens.
And you're just like, how did Ibecome the default leader here?
(02:38):
And, interestingly enough, myhusband, my now husband.
We met our first day of collegeand it was in the same place.
It would be the two of usmaking decisions for like, hey,
let's go here this weekend orlet's all of us go buy tickets
to this, or whatever it would be.
And we were realized, like howdid we end up, like the mom and
dad of the group, like what isthis maturity happening?
(03:01):
here, and so we both fell intothat natural place and it was
just really comfortable for usand that has just been a cascade
of how everything is gone.
We just feel really comfortablein that leadership role and I
think a lot of it is.
I don't want to overuse theterm confidence, but it is a
confidence, but it is not aconfidence born of like bravada,
(03:24):
like to use the female term.
It's not me saying, oh, I'm justgreat and that's okay.
It comes from actually knowingthat we can accomplish this
together if we all band togetherand we do this.
So it is a confident level ofleadership that I feel like I'm
competent enough to be the oneto do this or, if not, I'm going
to tell which.
Whoever it is, I want them tobe the leader and I'm going to
(03:47):
get behind them and they'regoing to feel the confidence
that I have in them to lead.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
You know I love that latter part because that's not
something a lot of people thinkabout that you can show
confidence in someone else, backthem up, encourage them,
support their leadership as anact of your leadership.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
It's so important because, look, we can't be
everything in our company atonce, and a lot of times I find
that my staff, my team, it's nota matter of them not having the
skills, it's a matter of themnot believing that they can do
it.
And by giving them thatconfidence, but giving them my
(04:30):
trust, my belief in them, itgoes a long way to getting
actually it done.
It's not always aboutempowerment.
We think we need to empower ourteam, but sometimes our team
just doesn't have the confidence, they don't believe they can do
it, so they don't take thereins of empowerment that you've
provided for them.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Yes, you know something I often tell my team
is, and they could probably saywith me, I've said it so many
times.
I tell them I'm like, hey, theycome to me with a question and
I'm like here, that's yourdecision and your decision is
the right one.
I trust you, that's why you'rehere.
I have confidence, yourdecision is the right one.
I'm going to back your play.
(05:08):
I love that.
I love that, Terri, that'sfantastic.
You are one of the industryexperts, I think, on podcasting.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Well, I like to think that that's the case.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
I think it is.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Yeah, the expertise earned from a lot of experience,
right, a lot of doing it myselfand a lot of helping others do
it.
So I do.
You know, I'm really not a fanof people who call themselves
experts who've been there, doneit once, right.
And so I think you have tocreate repeatable success for
(05:42):
yourself and for others.
To count yourself an expert andI do, I embody that.
I take that as yes, I believeI'm an expert in it because I've
done this.
Does that mean I'm perfect atit?
No, it means I'm practicing itevery day and keeping that
expertise up.
That's also the definition tome of an expert is someone who's
keeping to hone their expertise.
(06:02):
If you don't keep up on it, youjust been there, done it.
Now I teach it, and it's awhole model, outdated model.
That is not an expert you wantin your corner.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
I think that is so true, and too many people are
listening to voices from peoplewho have done something once.
Oh, and now yeah, I mean, Ican't tell you on the binge
factor.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
I just looked at my statistics.
So we have about 1000 podcastswe've launched on our platform
over time and not everybody'ssuper active, meaning that
they're not posting us everysingle week like we recommend
that they do, but they're atleast doing it enough in the
course of a year that they'reconsidered still active
podcasters and we have less than10% failure rate.
(06:42):
So we call it pod fate in theindustry.
So, people who quit theirpodcast.
Typically they fade out andforget to tell you they stopped
podcasting.
So the listeners don't know.
But that's how it works in theindustry.
So we have less than 10% podfate rate.
The industry standard is about73% pod fade rate, so it's super
(07:03):
high.
People who quit their show andmost of those people quit before
they ever get to 25 episodes,so they quit before they ever
really got a return right.
You don't see a return tillafter 25.
And so I only interview on thebinge factor people who have
done 50 episodes or more.
Occasionally I'll interviewsomeone who's done 25 or more,
(07:25):
but that's only because theyhave like something really
interesting a story to tell orsomething like that.
But the majority are 50 andprobably most of them are 100 or
more.
And I just did the numbersbecause we ever green social
media posts about them, so weconstantly are repromoting them.
So once a quarter we go throughand we scrub anyone who quit
(07:45):
their show, who stoppedpodcasting, because if they're
not active I don't want to givethem advice.
And in the last year we've hadover 50 of my interviews and
I've done 150 shows, so we're athird of them.
And these are supposed to bepeople who claim to be experts
in podcasting.
Oh, my goodness A third of themhave quit podcasting and a lot
(08:06):
of them a lot of those 50 havebusinesses in the podcasting
industry or adjacent to it andthey quit podcasting.
So here you've got someonewho's like too busy to podcast,
but that's what they're sellingyou.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Yikes.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
All kinds of wrong.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Yikes, I agree.
Why did they fail Like?
Why are people fading?
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Well, it's a busy thing, right it's.
You hear this all the time,right?
It's like I get too manyclients and I get too busy and I
can't even I can't support myown show anymore.
But that's a problem becausethat's how you got those clients
to begin with.
And so now you're going to putyourself on that marketing
roller coaster of you're goingto hit the bottom and go oh my
gosh, I got to revive my show.
(08:53):
I don't have enough leadscoming in and or I'm not getting
closure rate at the same rate,because I am not showing and
demonstrating that I have value,that I'm doing this, that I'm
living what I'm selling to you.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
That feels short-sighted to me.
The thing that got you thesuccess you would say, that's
the first thing to go.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Right, it is crazy, but that happens more often than
you think.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
So what is?
As you're looking across theindustry, I mean you have you
have insight into so manydifferent shows through Podetize
.
What is going on in podcastingtoday?
Where do you see it going?
What's?
Speaker 3 (09:31):
next.
So right now I think there'sjust this sort of disenchantment
.
Just, you know they're like.
They're like podcasting isn'twhat I think it is.
I just got an email from aclient today who says hey, I've
been on your platform for ninemonths and I can't figure out
where I get connected to mypodcast listeners.
And I'm like you should havebeen listening from the
(09:52):
beginning, because we neverpromised you'd get connected to
your podcast listeners.
Apple and Spotify Don't let you.
This is it's actually not inthis podcasting model, and I
think that's what happens to alot of people.
But once they hit that worldthat realizes that they don't
have direct connection throughsome kind of email or some way
to remarket to them or followthem around, they get
(10:15):
disenfranchised with thepodcasting model.
But the problem is is that youdo have it.
You just don't understand.
You do Because every week I'msitting here talking to hundreds
of people, or 50 people, or 30people.
That just means that you shoulddouble down and make sure
you're doing two episodes a weekor do more, because if I could
talk to 30 people a week, that'sway more than I can do
(10:39):
one-on-one in my business.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
So, true.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
So why wouldn't I talk to them again?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Why would you stop?
Why would you stop?
Why would you stop?
Stop that off, come on.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
It's a lack of understanding that they think it
doesn't match what I can do insocial media.
It doesn't match this, but itdoes.
It's just your idea of how thisworks is backwards and it's
because you expect an emailaddress, but how much does your
email opens?
Happen today?
Speaker 1 (11:10):
How much?
Speaker 3 (11:11):
do you connect to email open rate?
So our email open rate has.
It was always really great.
It was always really high.
We used to have like over a 50%open rate, which was really
good, and we would have a clickthrough rate that would be in
the double digits, so it wouldbe over 10%, which is still
really good.
When you're talking about coldor slightly warm email, right,
(11:34):
it's still really good.
It's not in the single digits,right, but over the last two
years it has dropped continually.
We haven't done anythingdifferent.
We make really funny customemails and like everything
sounds we have the same things.
We don't do a lot of salesthrough our emails.
It's always a tip, a video.
You can consume it in writing,in video, in audio.
(11:56):
You can consume it in anymethod you want anyway, and it's
free.
So why wouldn't you keepconsuming that?
Well, because you get inundatedand you have too much junk
email, right, you have too muchjunk nowadays, so we're ending
up in unfocused.
The algorithms change in theway.
Apple allows you to get emailon your phone and you don't even
notice that things that youused to like you're not getting
(12:19):
anymore, right, so you don'tnotice it, but the email servers
are still counting it as adelivered and an open, and so
you don't realize that.
So your open rate may not bechanging, depending on how
they're counting it.
How we look at it is, if ourclick-through rate is dropping,
then something's not happening,it's not actually getting
delivered, because we know thatthis worked for quite a long
(12:41):
time and we always keep it freshand updated and all of those.
So we see that on our end.
And so when, if I look at ittoday, I see that we're probably
around the single digits ofopen rate Real true open reading
, click-through, that we're downin the single digits, so we've
dropped at least two thirds fromwhere it used to be two years
(13:02):
ago.
So if we're dropping and we doa really good job at this,
you're dropping, I'm pretty sure.
And if you're dropping an email,then why are you so desperate
to get somebody's email addressRight?
You wouldn't I rather just havetheir ear?
Speaker 2 (13:19):
It's true, that's so well said.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
Right.
So we get a lot of connectionand click through conversion
from our audio.
But we get it because we makethem an offer on air.
We use our ad mixing system,which is unique, to Podiatize.
We use it to drop in somethingrelevant or current so that
they're always hearing somethingthat's like if you really
(13:43):
enjoyed this podcast episode andyou got a lot out of it, then
you might want to check thisepisode out next so we might
make a shout out to anotherepisode.
Or we have this masterclass.
We have this free video series.
We have something to offer you.
That's something next thatbuilds off of this and by making
that truly customized and ABtesting it and rotating it into
(14:05):
the audio, we can get greaterconversion and we see about 37%
conversion rate on our audiopromotions.
We don't call them ads becausethey're not random
advertisements for Kindle booksor something passive.
It's something active.
If they've gotten informationfrom this show, they're going to
(14:26):
want to check this out and whenwe do that and here's another
tip we put it in the end.
We put it in the last third orso.
If you were doing what we callmid-roll ads somewhere in the
middle of it, we try to put inthe last third of the audio, or
we put it at the end, because ifsomeone crashed out and didn't
(14:48):
really listen all the waythrough, conventional wisdom is
like, well, you want to makethem your pitch right away, but
they're not receptive to thepitch yet you didn't earn it.
They didn't listen in farenough for you to earn the right
to get them to click throughand do something.
So if you want something that'sgoing to convert, that's not
passive, you can put all themegaphone ads and the audios
(15:09):
that are just generalinformation at the beginning,
but at the end you want to givethem something valuable that is
going to get them to consumemore of you.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
That is so absolutely intentional Tracy.
I love that.
It reminds me of an old quotefrom Ed Deming your system is
perfectly designed to give youthe results you're currently
getting.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
That's so true.
We talk about your catalytic,your catalytic leadership.
You have to do something to geta different result.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Yes, yes, and too many people are trying to keep
doing the same things over andover again but expect different
results, or we're doing a model.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
This is the other thing we're doing a model that
works for someone else, of whichwe don't have the system in
place, the team in place, thecapability in place.
Too many of those funnelexperts out there have hundreds
of thousands of emails in theiremail lists, so if they get
single-digit conversion, they'restill getting enough conversion
to make a difference.
You've got 5,000.
(16:09):
You've got 500.
You don't have enough to makethat worth the time and effort
you do it.
You don't have that in place,so the advice isn't going to
work for you.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
And this is why I think so many people follow the
advice of the gurus, right.
Follow the advice of theexperts yeah, right, and they do
that thing, they take thatcourse, they follow that pattern
and they still fail, right.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
And they do.
And this is the difference.
Like we have so muchinformation, right, it's really
hard because everything iscustomized.
If you're in the health andfitness information, I'm going
to give you different advicethan I'm going to give somebody
who's in the entrepreneurialleadership space, the reason
being health and fitnesssupplements are blocked from
(16:56):
social media ads.
You've got to do somethingdifferent to counteract the
barriers you're going to runinto.
Yeah, right, so you've got tounderstand that.
And most coaches and expertsdon't have enough categorical
expertise or data to understandwhat's working in one place
(17:17):
versus another.
So I'm a big fan of if you needa coach for something, go hire
the coach that has nicheexpertise.
Yeah, they're going tounderstand it.
They're going to be fartheralong in it.
They will have more data andmore expertise for that.
But too often we go for the bigguy.
Yeah, right, and the big guyhe's like layering on his next
(17:39):
thing and he probably alreadyquit podcasting.
He's on to the next thinganyway.
He's not really doing it, he'sjust teaching it.
Yeah, and that's the problem isthat we need people who are
really down in the trenches withyou, who are five steps ahead
of you or who have enoughclients that are five steps
ahead of you, so that you canreally see what's right in front
of you.
Because, also, things aremoving so quickly that if we get
(18:02):
too far out with our expertisewe are not helping with how it's
going today.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
You know that brings up another question.
You have got to constantly stayon your game these days, right,
I mean, things change sorapidly, so quickly.
There is so much turmoil andpivoting, even beyond just the
last three and a half years,which has created a whole
different system.
How do you, how does Tracy,stay on top of her game?
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Well, first off, most people think I'm absolutely
crazy to do this and it, but itis the key to my success and the
key to how I create success forothers.
So every single year, I start abrand new podcast, so that I'm
starting one and I'm at thatplace, not just growing it, and
I'm still continuing at leasttwo of my other shows.
(18:53):
So I've started seven podcastsover the last seven years.
Wow, and well, the last nineyears, because the first one I
started.
Then there was a gap before Idecided I was going to be in the
podcasting business.
So so, yeah, so that one.
But, and then we do differentthings with them.
Sometimes we quit them,sometimes we we sell them to
somebody else, sometimes we dosomething different with them to
test out what.
(19:13):
What happens with them afteryou've quit a show, what can you
do with it afterwards?
So we are always testing somemodel for something.
But I'm starting a new showevery single year.
I'm about to start our new showthis fall and it is a
compilation show.
It's a promo show for all theseother podcasters who want to
get discovered.
That's its simple purpose.
(19:33):
It is a complex show.
It has taken me almost the fullnine months to set it up Wow
and get it ready to go, becauseI needed it to be in an engine
in order to support enoughpeople.
But our goal is to promote aminimum of 100 podcasters a week
.
I'm pretty sure I'm going toget it up to 300.
If I'm, if I, if I can build itup on the marketing side so
(19:55):
enough people are applying intoit, then I can get it up to 300.
That's my goal with the showTotally different model.
You're going to be monetized ina completely different way.
Everyone's going to getpromotion in a completely
different way.
There's a whole bunch of thingsthat have gone into doing this
Totally different show than theshow that I normally do, which
is Podetize is Feed your Brand,which is our coaching call each
(20:16):
week, and so our coaching calleach week is built in so that I
can provide and answer questionsfor my community and that means
that I'm up on what they need.
It's my way of staying current.
They have a question, I've gotto get an answer for them, right
, so I'm staying current.
I'm also building my resourcelibrary, my tip library, which
is going to be AI driven, sothat they can use it to find
(20:40):
things, so that it can alsoinform my help team to support
our clients, like.
So it's filling all thesethings at once from one thing
that I do each week one hourthat I spend, and it's doing it
in a beautiful way, the bingefactor.
I keep doing it because it's aconnection point, because I meet
great people like you and youoffer me to be on your show, so
there's promotion on that sideof it, but it's also a great way
(21:02):
for me to understand what otherpodcasters that are not in my
community struggling with.
Where are they in their journey?
What else can?
What's next for them?
So those are the things that Ido.
The next thing that I do,though, is for two and a half
years, we have been testing AI,and now I'm running a lab
(21:22):
because we're about ready toroll out some of our AI features
, starting at the third or thefourth quarter of this year, and
so, when we roll out our AIfeatures, my concern is that
people aren't ready to use them.
And so by running a lab which Irun every single week.
We run a topic and I teachsomeone how to like title
(21:43):
podcast episodes or create anarticle from your episode, like,
how do you do create apresentation, to create a
webinar, like, what would youwant to do from it?
It's always starting from apiece of content like that,
because that's kind of my AI, myAI edges to work out with
content.
But what are you going tostruggle with in being able to
do this and what are what's themissing thing that you don't
(22:05):
have so that you can use itproperly, so that it's easy for
you to use, so that we cancreate methods that we either
actually embed it and do it foryou, or we create customizations
for you to be able to do thenext thing that you want to do
with it export it out so thatyou can do your webinar
presentation make, create apartnership with a PowerPoint
company so you can do that, orwhatever it might be.
(22:27):
We want to create that flowthrough.
So the way that I do it is tojust have a class.
So I'm doing a live class and Ireally don't care how many
people show up, because thepeople that are showing up are
actively interested.
So if there are five peoplethere, we are going to spend an
intensive time helping fiveamazing people and I'm going to
learn what I need to know totake it to the next step and so
(22:50):
we've had comments out of ourlab is like you just saved me
three hours of work in the 30minute call that we had today,
because I don't have to go testout these different AIs.
I can go straight to the onethat I know is going to work,
because you've already done thatfor me.
You did that research for me,and so that's kind of the goal,
for how can we make this workand make it really a part of
(23:12):
someone's workflow so that theydon't have to think about this,
because I don't want to have AIthat is just like plug and play
and gives you the same resultslike so that your podcast looks
like everybody else's.
That's terrible results, thatdoesn't use AI to its best
abilities, and so we want tomake sure that we're not only
helping you learn that, butwe're creating the right output
(23:34):
for it too.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Right, See, one of the things I love hearing you
describe that is the passionthat is so evident in your voice
, your body language, yourfacial expression.
If you're not watching this onvideo, like that is so amazing,
because I can see it bleedingout of you You're so excited
about this.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
I am.
It's like you know, there's alot of people who are on the AI
wagon to be on the AI wagon,right, they're like, and they're
going to cash out reallyquickly before the finance burns
out on it.
But then there are going to bethose of us just like with
podcasting it's the same modelfor me those of us who have
built great businesses on top ofit, great systems saving us
(24:16):
time, energy, money.
That's where I look forsomething.
When I see a technology and aninnovation, I don't look at it
as a flash in the pan.
How much money can I make fromthis fast?
It's like, how much can Iintegrate with this and change
the outcome for the better foreveryone?
That's what I want.
If it's not worth doing that, Iwill.
(24:38):
Can it?
It will be gone, and I have tosay that a year and a half, a
two year and a half years ago,when we first started with AI,
we thought the only thing we'reever going to be able to use
this for because it's not thereyet is going to be transcripts.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
And even that wasn't working well.
We had to build an entiresystem that we're now.
It's now going to be a newlarge language model in a way
that no one ever anticipated.
We built on top of thetranscription system, but it
took us two and a half years tobuild it, to get it right.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
That type of commitment is what brings
excellence.
I talk to leaders and I tellthem that you never drift into
excellence.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
You drift into mediocrity.
Mediocrity does not inspirepeople.
Excellence inspires people.
Mediocrity inspires no one.
And what you're describing?
A two and a half year journeyto build something that does not
exist, but that you saw and youknew could be, and you saw the
potential of what it could be.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
Because you want that , I think the real key, william,
is that most people who are inthat kind of innovative,
creative mindset and there arepeople out there like that the
problem is is that they wait toolong to bring something forward
.
We're too afraid to reveal theirinnovation to the world.
Now, I've always found ways tolike we use it behind the scenes
(26:04):
, we're using it as the engineunderneath everything that we're
doing and you're actuallygetting the benefit of AI, but
you don't have to learn how touse it.
We don't make a broken frontend that then gets everybody
discouraged.
We don't do that.
So we are always using it,integrating it, testing it,
brute force, testing it inwhatever way we can, and then
finding a way by teaching ithere, to make sure that I
(26:28):
understand what it's going totake, to make sure that their
success when it comes out, andthat way, we're always actually
testing it, bringing it forward,talking about it.
Because when you don't do thatand you build something
completely closed behind thescenes and then you're like
reveal, it's always a dudbecause the world's not ready.
Right, they're not ready.
(26:49):
You didn't build a bridge toget there.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Yes, yes, the pre-work is as important as the
work 100%.
So, as you're thinking forwardwith Podotize, you've already
laid out what fourth quarter isgoing to look like.
What do you see for your shownow?
For my, show itself.
For you.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
For me.
Well, the thing is is that Iwant to just be able to keep
doing what I'm doing inconnecting with people, bringing
out great information, bringingit forward, being extremely
relevant.
So everything that I do istrying to create a much more and
deeper relevance model.
No one wants to listen tooutdated ads.
(27:33):
No one wants to listen tothings that aren't important to
them.
We believe this world should becustomized to us.
How many times have we gottenit?
The other day, my Alexa devicepopped up some kind of video for
something and I looked at herand I said I think you know our
family better than this.
(27:54):
This is not keeping up withyour.
That's what I wanted to say toher.
I'm like I don't know where yougot the idea that we would, in
any way, shape or form like this, and you didn't mark it as ads.
So it's not a push through.
You've missed the mark.
Somehow.
Your algorithm has gone wild.
That's how I thought of it,Because you know we like this
(28:14):
kind of music in this householdor we like this kind of stuff.
So when things are not comingand being relevant, we get
frustrated with our devices.
Now we get frustrated with ourtechnology, and podcasting is
one of them.
The podcasting search enginesucks.
I don't know how to say anynicer, it's so true, it's like.
(28:36):
I swear it's written on oldschool.
I can't even think of the oldsearch engines or something like
it.
I would have said it was Bing,but Bing has improved because
they got AI Like so it's, butthat's how it feels.
Right, it's that outdated, buttoday we expect more and I
(28:56):
always want to be in that placeof bringing forth the most
relevant things.
So when I can eliminate thingsthat I don't need to do anymore,
that are not serving and notcreating relevance, or I can
create a deeper relevance,that's what I want to do, and if
that changes the way my showruns, then it's going to change
the way my show runs.
So today, I think, becausethere are so many Jits and
(29:17):
Franchise podcasters, becausepod fading is at a like epidemic
rate right.
Because of that, I think I haveto find a way to help you
understand the value of what youcreated.
So part of that is everythingthat we're building in.
It's already starting to comeout.
It's like we have appraisalsand podatized scores so you can
(29:38):
score your podcast.
So it doesn't matter if yourpodcast was two years old, you
can find out.
Is there any value left in this?
Is there anything worth revivingin this.
And then we're working towards,like deep AI modeling and
indexing of every single wordthat's set on a podcast, so we
can understand if there's valueto advertisers, if there's value
(29:59):
to promotions, if there's valueto somebody buying your show.
Imagine if somebody bought yourold content and repurposed it
because you didn't take the timeto do it so they could, because
they're in that business nowand you've moved on to something
completely different.
Would that be great?
Now you recoup your value ofthe time and energy you spent
(30:19):
two years ago or a year ago.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
I love talking to visionary leaders like you,
tracy, because you see so manythings that could be.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
Well, it's too easy for us to say my industry is
shifting, yes.
Well, I'm just going to jump onto the next thing.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
Then it is there's still value in this industry.
How do I uncover it and make itavailable to more people?
That's the question that Ialways want to ask, because I
didn't come into this industrywith the idea that it had no
value.
I knew it had value.
I personally received the valuebefore I got started and then I
created value for a dozenpeople and then they said I have
(31:00):
100 more people I want to referyou to, so please make this
into a business.
And we did so.
We know we've been creatingvalue all along the way, and if
they're finding value, then whyare there so many who are not
getting it?
How do I get to them andunderstand what's driving them,
why they're not seeing thatvalue?
Speaker 2 (31:19):
That's brilliant.
What do you wish you had known10 years ago?
Speaker 3 (31:25):
There's so much I wish.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
I had known.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
But, you know what?
There's no point in lookingback.
That's how I feel.
I feel like there should be noregrets in life.
And if I looked back, if Iwouldn't be here if.
I didn't make those mistakesright.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Oh, that's good.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
Right, and so there's a way of being that I have now
and I look, I feel like, as Imentioned before, that I always
had this kind of confidencelevel that I was confident in
what I could do and the factthat if I didn't know what I
figured out, I had great abilityto do things, to accomplish
things, to learn things.
I was really confident in myability to do that.
But today I have a differentlevel of being, that I am very
(32:03):
confident that the flow of lifeis how I don't have to control
everything.
I think in my younger dayseverything I did was to try to
control things.
Instead I have a better abilityto flex, to adjust, to stay
with the flow, to keep it moving, to plug that into my vision
and just make sure we're notcompletely diverted off path,
(32:27):
but that we just go with theflow and we're going to make it.
But that flow doesn't take meover, it's not taking me down
the waterfall, it's not takingme over.
I still have control of therudder of my boat.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
I see a number of books behind you there.
Is there a book I always ask?
I always ask is there a bookthat has been a part of your
journey that you would say, hey,if you're in leadership, an
entrepreneur, an agent, etc.
Any of these spaces, this is abook you need to read.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
Yeah, there's so many .
Look, I am a prolific reader.
I read about 300 books a yearand that's partially because I'm
a speed reader, like I can readreally quickly, and partially
because books are not as good asthey used to be, so they don't
take you like they're not, these, like you know Massive tomes
that you're gonna take you, youknow, months to read their
shorts.
That's helpful, right, but youknow, I think it probably it's a
(33:22):
little bit of an older book andprobably the last you know.
I think it's maybe 12 years oldor something like that.
But one of my favorite books andone of my favorite authors is
Shane snow, and Smartcuts is oneof my absolute favorite books
and it a lot of people missed itbecause they weren't in the
tech industry and it was kind ofa popular tech writer.
He's still a popular techwriter.
(33:42):
He has a book, dream teams and,and I think, a story, something
about story telling.
Now, like he's got a couple ofother books as well and they're
both just as good.
But I'm a big fan of smart cutsbecause what it is is this idea
that there is a smarter path togetting from a to b and there
(34:02):
are smarter choices that you canmake for your company and when
we are entrepreneurs, we need tomake those smart choices, we
need to make those cuts, and thethings that we can't do, that
we don't have time for it, needto be thinking about.
Is this still gonna get uswhere we're going going, or is
the fact that I cut this outlike a fatal flaw and that means
that I'm not gonna succeed?
(34:24):
And so thinking those thingsthrough are really critically
important.
And I love the way he wordsthat he tells these great
stories and he's an Magazinewriter, so you know, wrote for
some rights for the greatmagazines and newspapers.
So one of the people I follow,I'm always reading his articles
and and that I think, has reallythat changed the way I looked
at innovation.
(34:45):
Yeah in a different way becausethere was so much of it that I
could see inventors.
So I I have patents, and mypartner and husband and I we
have 40 patents between the twoof us my goodness.
Yeah, and the key about it islike anyone can get a patent at
the end of the day, like you canget a patent for something
really narrow and you know thatwill never be of any value.
(35:06):
But I'm proud of the fact that86% of our patents and this is
the statistic because we cite ita lot when we give lectures but
that became something thatsomebody made money off of our
clients made money or ourbusinesses made money Somebody
made money.
They commercialized thosepatents and use them.
They didn't just sit on a shelfand we're like pretty little
(35:27):
pieces of paper you got from thepatent and trademark office.
Yeah and that happens when youcan put your in innovation into
application, and too often welose the application.
So I would talk to theseinventors and I would give these
lectures and they would comeforward and they'd be like I'm
so proud of this and this.
And I'd be like, okay, are youselling it yet?
(35:48):
Where is it?
Have you been testing it?
That their path to successthey're not following, that
their whole end goal was to getthe invention patented and and
that innovation for innovationsake?
Yes, it is not useful to theworld, some and so.
(36:11):
But they think, oh, but I can'tsell it, I don't have the money
to start marketing it.
I don't have the money to dothis, so I just need my piece of
paper to sell it to somebodyelse.
But you haven't demonstratedthe value to anybody else.
So sometimes and this is theadvice that I give don't spend
money on the patent, spend moneyon doing a provisional, because
(36:32):
that's cheap.
Do a provisional, startmarketing it, do a provisional,
start making the thing, startfiguring out whether or not you
should make it and In that timeMaybe you'll find the right
buyer for it, because you'veproven enough along the way to
show them where the value liesthat you don't have enough
capital for it that they couldbring in the capital for and
(36:53):
take what you've done and takeit to the next level.
You've got your provisional, soyou're still covered and now
you spend the money on thepatenting.
But instead, if you spend$15,000 on patenting, you've cut
out your whole ability tomarket maybe even prototype.
You've taken away all the moneyfrom being able to do that.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Wow, you have shared so much wisdom and insight today
, tracy.
This has been so incrediblyhelpful.
When people leave an episodelike this, often they'll don't
remember one or two things.
If you wanted to say this isthe one thing I want you to
remember, what would that onething be?
Speaker 3 (37:28):
You have to be out there saying it.
You have to be out thereexperiencing it.
Being out there Doing is thebest way to get to being right.
If you want to be a successfulentrepreneur, you've got to be
doing things right.
The activity, the action thatyou take matters.
Now I'm not saying you shouldbe busy doing everything.
(37:51):
I'm saying do the smart thingsright, do things, because if
we're not in that, we're only inthis part of I'm gonna manifest
this yeah, it is never gonnahappen.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
Well said, I know folks are gonna want to stay
connected with you.
What is the best way for peopleto continue learning from you?
Speaker 3 (38:11):
So the best way is to follow me on LinkedIn.
It is the one place that Iparticipate in, so follow me on
LinkedIn.
We always go live on LinkedInevery single week when we do our
coaching call for our podcastsFor our clients.
We go live on LinkedIn for thefirst portion of it, so you'll
get the latest tip.
The thing that my clients arestruggling with, you're gonna
hear the tip for, and so that'sthe best place to do it.
And then you know, feel free toreach out, you listen to my
(38:33):
podcast, the binge factor andfeed your brand and you've got a
.
There isn't a place that youcan't find me.
That's means that I'm out there, right.
I'm putting myself out thereeverywhere.
When you go and Google me,you're going to find hundreds of
articles, hundreds of reasonsthat I Dominate that first page
of Google, and it's not justbecause you figured out my name.
It's because my content isthere, right, it's because my
(38:57):
advice is there.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
Well said, I've got to tell you just personally, I
have been learning so much fromthe bench factor.
So thank you for that and forsharing so freely today.
This has been such a fantasticconversation.
Thank you for being here.
Speaker 3 (39:11):
Thank you, William.
I love your show and I'm soglad you were on the bench
factor and we got to meet.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
Thanks for joining me for this episode today.
As we wrap up, I'd love for youto do two things.
First, subscribe to thispodcast so you don't miss an
episode, and if you find valuehere, I'd love it if you would
rate it and review it.
That really does make adifference in helping other
people to discover this podcast.
Second, if you don't have acopy of my newest book,
(39:39):
catalytic leadership, I'd loveto put a copy in your hands.
If you go to catalyticleadership book calm, you can
get a copy for free.
Just pay the shipping so I canget it to you and we'll get one
right out.
My goal is to put this into thehands of as many leaders as
possible.
This book captures principlesthat I've learned in 20 plus
(40:01):
years of coaching leaders in theentrepreneurial space, in
business, government, nonprofits, education and the local church
.
You can also connect with me onLinkedIn to keep up with what
I'm currently learning andthinking about.
If you're ready to take a nextstep with a coach to help you
Intentionally grow and thrive asa leader, I'd be honored to
(40:23):
help you.
Just go to catalytic leadershipnet to book a call with me.
Stay tuned for our next episodenext week.
Until then, as always, leaderschoose to be catalytic.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
Thanks for listening to catalytic leadership with dr
William Attaway.
Be sure to subscribe whereveryou listen to podcasts so you
don't miss the next episode.
Want more?
Go to catalytic leadership net.
Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the podcast designed
to help leaders intentionallygrow and thrive.
Here is your host author andleadership and executive coach,
dr William Attaway.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hey, it's William and welcome to today's episode of
the Catalytic Leadership podcast.
Each week, we tackle a topicrelated to the field of
leadership.
My goal is to ensure that youhave actionable steps you can
take from each episode to growin your own leadership.
Growth doesn't just happen.
My goal is to help you becomeintentional about it.
(00:37):
Each week, we spotlight leadersfrom a variety of fields,
organizations and locations.
My goal is for you to see thatleaders can be catalytic, no
matter where they are or whatthey lead.
I draw inspiration from thestories and journeys of these
leaders and I hear from many ofyou that you do too.
(00:57):
Let's jump in to today'sinterview.
I am thrilled today to haveTracy Hazard on the show.
Tracy is a seasoned mediaexpert with over 2,600
interviews from articles inAuthority Magazine, buzzfeed and
her Ink Magazine column, andfrom her multiple top ranked
video casts and podcasts likethe Binge Factor and Feed your
(01:20):
Brand, one of CIO's top 26entrepreneur success.
As CEO and co-founder ofPodiatize, tracy brings diverse
views from what works and whatdoesn't work in marketing and
media, from thought leaders andindustry icons, redefining
success around the globe.
Tracy's unique gift to thepodcasting, marketing and
(01:42):
branding world is being able toidentify that unique bingeable
factor, the thing that makespeople come back again and again
and actively share as ravingfans and buy everything you have
to sell, tracy.
I'm so excited for thisconversation.
Thank you for being here.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Oh, I'm so excited to be here and get to chat back
with you again, because you wereon my show already.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Absolutely.
I would love for you to sharesome of your story Tracy with
our listeners, particularlyaround your journey and your
development as a leader.
How did you get started?
Speaker 3 (02:17):
You know, I think sometimes leaders are born and
this is really how I feel aboutit.
It was one of those aha momentssomewhere in college where I
realized I was making choices,and decisions for the group.
I was already a leader right,nice, nice.
How that happens.
And you're just like, how did Ibecome the default leader here?
(02:38):
And, interestingly enough, myhusband, my now husband.
We met our first day of collegeand it was in the same place.
It would be the two of usmaking decisions for like, hey,
let's go here this weekend orlet's all of us go buy tickets
to this, or whatever it would be.
And we were realized, like howdid we end up, like the mom and
dad of the group, like what isthis maturity happening?
(03:01):
here, and so we both fell intothat natural place and it was
just really comfortable for usand that has just been a cascade
of how everything is gone.
We just feel really comfortablein that leadership role and I
think a lot of it is.
I don't want to overuse theterm confidence, but it is a
confidence, but it is not aconfidence born of like bravada,
(03:24):
like to use the female term.
It's not me saying, oh, I'm justgreat and that's okay.
It comes from actually knowingthat we can accomplish this
together if we all band togetherand we do this.
So it is a confident level ofleadership that I feel like I'm
competent enough to be the oneto do this or, if not, I'm going
to tell which.
Whoever it is, I want them tobe the leader and I'm going to
(03:47):
get behind them and they'regoing to feel the confidence
that I have in them to lead.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
You know I love that latter part because that's not
something a lot of people thinkabout that you can show
confidence in someone else, backthem up, encourage them,
support their leadership as anact of your leadership.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
It's so important because, look, we can't be
everything in our company atonce, and a lot of times I find
that my staff, my team, it's nota matter of them not having the
skills, it's a matter of themnot believing that they can do
it.
And by giving them thatconfidence, but giving them my
(04:30):
trust, my belief in them, itgoes a long way to getting
actually it done.
It's not always aboutempowerment.
We think we need to empower ourteam, but sometimes our team
just doesn't have the confidence, they don't believe they can do
it, so they don't take thereins of empowerment that you've
provided for them.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Yes, you know something I often tell my team
is, and they could probably saywith me, I've said it so many
times.
I tell them I'm like, hey, theycome to me with a question and
I'm like here, that's yourdecision and your decision is
the right one.
I trust you, that's why you'rehere.
I have confidence, yourdecision is the right one.
I'm going to back your play.
(05:08):
I love that.
I love that, Terri, that'sfantastic.
You are one of the industryexperts, I think, on podcasting.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Well, I like to think that that's the case.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
I think it is.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Yeah, the expertise earned from a lot of experience,
right, a lot of doing it myselfand a lot of helping others do
it.
So I do.
You know, I'm really not a fanof people who call themselves
experts who've been there, doneit once, right.
And so I think you have tocreate repeatable success for
(05:42):
yourself and for others.
To count yourself an expert andI do, I embody that.
I take that as yes, I believeI'm an expert in it because I've
done this.
Does that mean I'm perfect atit?
No, it means I'm practicing itevery day and keeping that
expertise up.
That's also the definition tome of an expert is someone who's
keeping to hone their expertise.
(06:02):
If you don't keep up on it, youjust been there, done it.
Now I teach it, and it's awhole model, outdated model.
That is not an expert you wantin your corner.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
I think that is so true, and too many people are
listening to voices from peoplewho have done something once.
Oh, and now yeah, I mean, Ican't tell you on the binge
factor.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
I just looked at my statistics.
So we have about 1000 podcastswe've launched on our platform
over time and not everybody'ssuper active, meaning that
they're not posting us everysingle week like we recommend
that they do, but they're atleast doing it enough in the
course of a year that they'reconsidered still active
podcasters and we have less than10% failure rate.
(06:42):
So we call it pod fate in theindustry.
So, people who quit theirpodcast.
Typically they fade out andforget to tell you they stopped
podcasting.
So the listeners don't know.
But that's how it works in theindustry.
So we have less than 10% podfate rate.
The industry standard is about73% pod fade rate, so it's super
(07:03):
high.
People who quit their show andmost of those people quit before
they ever get to 25 episodes,so they quit before they ever
really got a return right.
You don't see a return tillafter 25.
And so I only interview on thebinge factor people who have
done 50 episodes or more.
Occasionally I'll interviewsomeone who's done 25 or more,
(07:25):
but that's only because theyhave like something really
interesting a story to tell orsomething like that.
But the majority are 50 andprobably most of them are 100 or
more.
And I just did the numbersbecause we ever green social
media posts about them, so weconstantly are repromoting them.
So once a quarter we go throughand we scrub anyone who quit
(07:45):
their show, who stoppedpodcasting, because if they're
not active I don't want to givethem advice.
And in the last year we've hadover 50 of my interviews and
I've done 150 shows, so we're athird of them.
And these are supposed to bepeople who claim to be experts
in podcasting.
Oh, my goodness A third of themhave quit podcasting and a lot
(08:06):
of them a lot of those 50 havebusinesses in the podcasting
industry or adjacent to it andthey quit podcasting.
So here you've got someonewho's like too busy to podcast,
but that's what they're sellingyou.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Yikes.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
All kinds of wrong.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Yikes, I agree.
Why did they fail Like?
Why are people fading?
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Well, it's a busy thing, right it's.
You hear this all the time,right?
It's like I get too manyclients and I get too busy and I
can't even I can't support myown show anymore.
But that's a problem becausethat's how you got those clients
to begin with.
And so now you're going to putyourself on that marketing
roller coaster of you're goingto hit the bottom and go oh my
gosh, I got to revive my show.
(08:53):
I don't have enough leadscoming in and or I'm not getting
closure rate at the same rate,because I am not showing and
demonstrating that I have value,that I'm doing this, that I'm
living what I'm selling to you.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
That feels short-sighted to me.
The thing that got you thesuccess you would say, that's
the first thing to go.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Right, it is crazy, but that happens more often than
you think.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
So what is?
As you're looking across theindustry, I mean you have you
have insight into so manydifferent shows through Podetize
.
What is going on in podcastingtoday?
Where do you see it going?
What's?
Speaker 3 (09:31):
next.
So right now I think there'sjust this sort of disenchantment
.
Just, you know they're like.
They're like podcasting isn'twhat I think it is.
I just got an email from aclient today who says hey, I've
been on your platform for ninemonths and I can't figure out
where I get connected to mypodcast listeners.
And I'm like you should havebeen listening from the
(09:52):
beginning, because we neverpromised you'd get connected to
your podcast listeners.
Apple and Spotify Don't let you.
This is it's actually not inthis podcasting model, and I
think that's what happens to alot of people.
But once they hit that worldthat realizes that they don't
have direct connection throughsome kind of email or some way
to remarket to them or followthem around, they get
(10:15):
disenfranchised with thepodcasting model.
But the problem is is that youdo have it.
You just don't understand.
You do Because every week I'msitting here talking to hundreds
of people, or 50 people, or 30people.
That just means that you shoulddouble down and make sure
you're doing two episodes a weekor do more, because if I could
talk to 30 people a week, that'sway more than I can do
(10:39):
one-on-one in my business.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
So, true.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
So why wouldn't I talk to them again?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Why would you stop?
Why would you stop?
Why would you stop?
Stop that off, come on.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
It's a lack of understanding that they think it
doesn't match what I can do insocial media.
It doesn't match this, but itdoes.
It's just your idea of how thisworks is backwards and it's
because you expect an emailaddress, but how much does your
email opens?
Happen today?
Speaker 1 (11:10):
How much?
Speaker 3 (11:11):
do you connect to email open rate?
So our email open rate has.
It was always really great.
It was always really high.
We used to have like over a 50%open rate, which was really
good, and we would have a clickthrough rate that would be in
the double digits, so it wouldbe over 10%, which is still
really good.
When you're talking about coldor slightly warm email, right,
(11:34):
it's still really good.
It's not in the single digits,right, but over the last two
years it has dropped continually.
We haven't done anythingdifferent.
We make really funny customemails and like everything
sounds we have the same things.
We don't do a lot of salesthrough our emails.
It's always a tip, a video.
You can consume it in writing,in video, in audio.
(11:56):
You can consume it in anymethod you want anyway, and it's
free.
So why wouldn't you keepconsuming that?
Well, because you get inundatedand you have too much junk
email, right, you have too muchjunk nowadays, so we're ending
up in unfocused.
The algorithms change in theway.
Apple allows you to get emailon your phone and you don't even
notice that things that youused to like you're not getting
(12:19):
anymore, right, so you don'tnotice it, but the email servers
are still counting it as adelivered and an open, and so
you don't realize that.
So your open rate may not bechanging, depending on how
they're counting it.
How we look at it is, if ourclick-through rate is dropping,
then something's not happening,it's not actually getting
delivered, because we know thatthis worked for quite a long
(12:41):
time and we always keep it freshand updated and all of those.
So we see that on our end.
And so when, if I look at ittoday, I see that we're probably
around the single digits ofopen rate Real true open reading
, click-through, that we're downin the single digits, so we've
dropped at least two thirds fromwhere it used to be two years
(13:02):
ago.
So if we're dropping and we doa really good job at this,
you're dropping, I'm pretty sure.
And if you're dropping an email,then why are you so desperate
to get somebody's email addressRight?
You wouldn't I rather just havetheir ear?
Speaker 2 (13:19):
It's true, that's so well said.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
Right.
So we get a lot of connectionand click through conversion
from our audio.
But we get it because we makethem an offer on air.
We use our ad mixing system,which is unique, to Podiatize.
We use it to drop in somethingrelevant or current so that
they're always hearing somethingthat's like if you really
(13:43):
enjoyed this podcast episode andyou got a lot out of it, then
you might want to check thisepisode out next so we might
make a shout out to anotherepisode.
Or we have this masterclass.
We have this free video series.
We have something to offer you.
That's something next thatbuilds off of this and by making
that truly customized and ABtesting it and rotating it into
(14:05):
the audio, we can get greaterconversion and we see about 37%
conversion rate on our audiopromotions.
We don't call them ads becausethey're not random
advertisements for Kindle booksor something passive.
It's something active.
If they've gotten informationfrom this show, they're going to
(14:26):
want to check this out and whenwe do that and here's another
tip we put it in the end.
We put it in the last third orso.
If you were doing what we callmid-roll ads somewhere in the
middle of it, we try to put inthe last third of the audio, or
we put it at the end, because ifsomeone crashed out and didn't
(14:48):
really listen all the waythrough, conventional wisdom is
like, well, you want to makethem your pitch right away, but
they're not receptive to thepitch yet you didn't earn it.
They didn't listen in farenough for you to earn the right
to get them to click throughand do something.
So if you want something that'sgoing to convert, that's not
passive, you can put all themegaphone ads and the audios
(15:09):
that are just generalinformation at the beginning,
but at the end you want to givethem something valuable that is
going to get them to consumemore of you.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
That is so absolutely intentional Tracy.
I love that.
It reminds me of an old quotefrom Ed Deming your system is
perfectly designed to give youthe results you're currently
getting.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
That's so true.
We talk about your catalytic,your catalytic leadership.
You have to do something to geta different result.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Yes, yes, and too many people are trying to keep
doing the same things over andover again but expect different
results, or we're doing a model.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
This is the other thing we're doing a model that
works for someone else, of whichwe don't have the system in
place, the team in place, thecapability in place.
Too many of those funnelexperts out there have hundreds
of thousands of emails in theiremail lists, so if they get
single-digit conversion, they'restill getting enough conversion
to make a difference.
You've got 5,000.
(16:09):
You've got 500.
You don't have enough to makethat worth the time and effort
you do it.
You don't have that in place,so the advice isn't going to
work for you.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
And this is why I think so many people follow the
advice of the gurus, right.
Follow the advice of theexperts yeah, right, and they do
that thing, they take thatcourse, they follow that pattern
and they still fail, right.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
And they do.
And this is the difference.
Like we have so muchinformation, right, it's really
hard because everything iscustomized.
If you're in the health andfitness information, I'm going
to give you different advicethan I'm going to give somebody
who's in the entrepreneurialleadership space, the reason
being health and fitnesssupplements are blocked from
(16:56):
social media ads.
You've got to do somethingdifferent to counteract the
barriers you're going to runinto.
Yeah, right, so you've got tounderstand that.
And most coaches and expertsdon't have enough categorical
expertise or data to understandwhat's working in one place
(17:17):
versus another.
So I'm a big fan of if you needa coach for something, go hire
the coach that has nicheexpertise.
Yeah, they're going tounderstand it.
They're going to be fartheralong in it.
They will have more data andmore expertise for that.
But too often we go for the bigguy.
Yeah, right, and the big guyhe's like layering on his next
(17:39):
thing and he probably alreadyquit podcasting.
He's on to the next thinganyway.
He's not really doing it, he'sjust teaching it.
Yeah, and that's the problem isthat we need people who are
really down in the trenches withyou, who are five steps ahead
of you or who have enoughclients that are five steps
ahead of you, so that you canreally see what's right in front
of you.
Because, also, things aremoving so quickly that if we get
(18:02):
too far out with our expertisewe are not helping with how it's
going today.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
You know that brings up another question.
You have got to constantly stayon your game these days, right,
I mean, things change sorapidly, so quickly.
There is so much turmoil andpivoting, even beyond just the
last three and a half years,which has created a whole
different system.
How do you, how does Tracy,stay on top of her game?
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Well, first off, most people think I'm absolutely
crazy to do this and it, but itis the key to my success and the
key to how I create success forothers.
So every single year, I start abrand new podcast, so that I'm
starting one and I'm at thatplace, not just growing it, and
I'm still continuing at leasttwo of my other shows.
(18:53):
So I've started seven podcastsover the last seven years.
Wow, and well, the last nineyears, because the first one I
started.
Then there was a gap before Idecided I was going to be in the
podcasting business.
So so, yeah, so that one.
But, and then we do differentthings with them.
Sometimes we quit them,sometimes we we sell them to
somebody else, sometimes we dosomething different with them to
test out what.
(19:13):
What happens with them afteryou've quit a show, what can you
do with it afterwards?
So we are always testing somemodel for something.
But I'm starting a new showevery single year.
I'm about to start our new showthis fall and it is a
compilation show.
It's a promo show for all theseother podcasters who want to
get discovered.
That's its simple purpose.
(19:33):
It is a complex show.
It has taken me almost the fullnine months to set it up Wow
and get it ready to go, becauseI needed it to be in an engine
in order to support enoughpeople.
But our goal is to promote aminimum of 100 podcasters a week
.
I'm pretty sure I'm going toget it up to 300.
If I'm, if I, if I can build itup on the marketing side so
(19:55):
enough people are applying intoit, then I can get it up to 300.
That's my goal with the showTotally different model.
You're going to be monetized ina completely different way.
Everyone's going to getpromotion in a completely
different way.
There's a whole bunch of thingsthat have gone into doing this
Totally different show than theshow that I normally do, which
is Podetize is Feed your Brand,which is our coaching call each
(20:16):
week, and so our coaching calleach week is built in so that I
can provide and answer questionsfor my community and that means
that I'm up on what they need.
It's my way of staying current.
They have a question, I've gotto get an answer for them, right
, so I'm staying current.
I'm also building my resourcelibrary, my tip library, which
is going to be AI driven, sothat they can use it to find
(20:40):
things, so that it can alsoinform my help team to support
our clients, like.
So it's filling all thesethings at once from one thing
that I do each week one hourthat I spend, and it's doing it
in a beautiful way, the bingefactor.
I keep doing it because it's aconnection point, because I meet
great people like you and youoffer me to be on your show, so
there's promotion on that sideof it, but it's also a great way
(21:02):
for me to understand what otherpodcasters that are not in my
community struggling with.
Where are they in their journey?
What else can?
What's next for them?
So those are the things that Ido.
The next thing that I do,though, is for two and a half
years, we have been testing AI,and now I'm running a lab
(21:22):
because we're about ready toroll out some of our AI features
, starting at the third or thefourth quarter of this year, and
so, when we roll out our AIfeatures, my concern is that
people aren't ready to use them.
And so by running a lab which Irun every single week.
We run a topic and I teachsomeone how to like title
(21:43):
podcast episodes or create anarticle from your episode, like,
how do you do create apresentation, to create a
webinar, like, what would youwant to do from it?
It's always starting from apiece of content like that,
because that's kind of my AI, myAI edges to work out with
content.
But what are you going tostruggle with in being able to
do this and what are what's themissing thing that you don't
(22:05):
have so that you can use itproperly, so that it's easy for
you to use, so that we cancreate methods that we either
actually embed it and do it foryou, or we create customizations
for you to be able to do thenext thing that you want to do
with it export it out so thatyou can do your webinar
presentation make, create apartnership with a PowerPoint
company so you can do that, orwhatever it might be.
(22:27):
We want to create that flowthrough.
So the way that I do it is tojust have a class.
So I'm doing a live class and Ireally don't care how many
people show up, because thepeople that are showing up are
actively interested.
So if there are five peoplethere, we are going to spend an
intensive time helping fiveamazing people and I'm going to
learn what I need to know totake it to the next step and so
(22:50):
we've had comments out of ourlab is like you just saved me
three hours of work in the 30minute call that we had today,
because I don't have to go testout these different AIs.
I can go straight to the onethat I know is going to work,
because you've already done thatfor me.
You did that research for me,and so that's kind of the goal,
for how can we make this workand make it really a part of
(23:12):
someone's workflow so that theydon't have to think about this,
because I don't want to have AIthat is just like plug and play
and gives you the same resultslike so that your podcast looks
like everybody else's.
That's terrible results, thatdoesn't use AI to its best
abilities, and so we want tomake sure that we're not only
helping you learn that, butwe're creating the right output
(23:34):
for it too.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Right, See, one of the things I love hearing you
describe that is the passionthat is so evident in your voice
, your body language, yourfacial expression.
If you're not watching this onvideo, like that is so amazing,
because I can see it bleedingout of you You're so excited
about this.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
I am.
It's like you know, there's alot of people who are on the AI
wagon to be on the AI wagon,right, they're like, and they're
going to cash out reallyquickly before the finance burns
out on it.
But then there are going to bethose of us just like with
podcasting it's the same modelfor me those of us who have
built great businesses on top ofit, great systems saving us
(24:16):
time, energy, money.
That's where I look forsomething.
When I see a technology and aninnovation, I don't look at it
as a flash in the pan.
How much money can I make fromthis fast?
It's like, how much can Iintegrate with this and change
the outcome for the better foreveryone?
That's what I want.
If it's not worth doing that, Iwill.
(24:38):
Can it?
It will be gone, and I have tosay that a year and a half, a
two year and a half years ago,when we first started with AI,
we thought the only thing we'reever going to be able to use
this for because it's not thereyet is going to be transcripts.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
And even that wasn't working well.
We had to build an entiresystem that we're now.
It's now going to be a newlarge language model in a way
that no one ever anticipated.
We built on top of thetranscription system, but it
took us two and a half years tobuild it, to get it right.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
That type of commitment is what brings
excellence.
I talk to leaders and I tellthem that you never drift into
excellence.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
You drift into mediocrity.
Mediocrity does not inspirepeople.
Excellence inspires people.
Mediocrity inspires no one.
And what you're describing?
A two and a half year journeyto build something that does not
exist, but that you saw and youknew could be, and you saw the
potential of what it could be.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
Because you want that , I think the real key, william,
is that most people who are inthat kind of innovative,
creative mindset and there arepeople out there like that the
problem is is that they wait toolong to bring something forward
.
We're too afraid to reveal theirinnovation to the world.
Now, I've always found ways tolike we use it behind the scenes
(26:04):
, we're using it as the engineunderneath everything that we're
doing and you're actuallygetting the benefit of AI, but
you don't have to learn how touse it.
We don't make a broken frontend that then gets everybody
discouraged.
We don't do that.
So we are always using it,integrating it, testing it,
brute force, testing it inwhatever way we can, and then
finding a way by teaching ithere, to make sure that I
(26:28):
understand what it's going totake, to make sure that their
success when it comes out, andthat way, we're always actually
testing it, bringing it forward,talking about it.
Because when you don't do thatand you build something
completely closed behind thescenes and then you're like
reveal, it's always a dudbecause the world's not ready.
Right, they're not ready.
(26:49):
You didn't build a bridge toget there.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Yes, yes, the pre-work is as important as the
work 100%.
So, as you're thinking forwardwith Podotize, you've already
laid out what fourth quarter isgoing to look like.
What do you see for your shownow?
For my, show itself.
For you.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
For me.
Well, the thing is is that Iwant to just be able to keep
doing what I'm doing inconnecting with people, bringing
out great information, bringingit forward, being extremely
relevant.
So everything that I do istrying to create a much more and
deeper relevance model.
No one wants to listen tooutdated ads.
(27:33):
No one wants to listen tothings that aren't important to
them.
We believe this world should becustomized to us.
How many times have we gottenit?
The other day, my Alexa devicepopped up some kind of video for
something and I looked at herand I said I think you know our
family better than this.
(27:54):
This is not keeping up withyour.
That's what I wanted to say toher.
I'm like I don't know where yougot the idea that we would, in
any way, shape or form like this, and you didn't mark it as ads.
So it's not a push through.
You've missed the mark.
Somehow.
Your algorithm has gone wild.
That's how I thought of it,Because you know we like this
(28:14):
kind of music in this householdor we like this kind of stuff.
So when things are not comingand being relevant, we get
frustrated with our devices.
Now we get frustrated with ourtechnology, and podcasting is
one of them.
The podcasting search enginesucks.
I don't know how to say anynicer, it's so true, it's like.
(28:36):
I swear it's written on oldschool.
I can't even think of the oldsearch engines or something like
it.
I would have said it was Bing,but Bing has improved because
they got AI Like so it's, butthat's how it feels.
Right, it's that outdated, buttoday we expect more and I
(28:56):
always want to be in that placeof bringing forth the most
relevant things.
So when I can eliminate thingsthat I don't need to do anymore,
that are not serving and notcreating relevance, or I can
create a deeper relevance,that's what I want to do, and if
that changes the way my showruns, then it's going to change
the way my show runs.
So today, I think, becausethere are so many Jits and
(29:17):
Franchise podcasters, becausepod fading is at a like epidemic
rate right.
Because of that, I think I haveto find a way to help you
understand the value of what youcreated.
So part of that is everythingthat we're building in.
It's already starting to comeout.
It's like we have appraisalsand podatized scores so you can
(29:38):
score your podcast.
So it doesn't matter if yourpodcast was two years old, you
can find out.
Is there any value left in this?
Is there anything worth revivingin this.
And then we're working towards,like deep AI modeling and
indexing of every single wordthat's set on a podcast, so we
can understand if there's valueto advertisers, if there's value
(29:59):
to promotions, if there's valueto somebody buying your show.
Imagine if somebody bought yourold content and repurposed it
because you didn't take the timeto do it so they could, because
they're in that business nowand you've moved on to something
completely different.
Would that be great?
Now you recoup your value ofthe time and energy you spent
(30:19):
two years ago or a year ago.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
I love talking to visionary leaders like you,
tracy, because you see so manythings that could be.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
Well, it's too easy for us to say my industry is
shifting, yes.
Well, I'm just going to jump onto the next thing.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
Then it is there's still value in this industry.
How do I uncover it and make itavailable to more people?
That's the question that Ialways want to ask, because I
didn't come into this industrywith the idea that it had no
value.
I knew it had value.
I personally received the valuebefore I got started and then I
created value for a dozenpeople and then they said I have
(31:00):
100 more people I want to referyou to, so please make this
into a business.
And we did so.
We know we've been creatingvalue all along the way, and if
they're finding value, then whyare there so many who are not
getting it?
How do I get to them andunderstand what's driving them,
why they're not seeing thatvalue?
Speaker 2 (31:19):
That's brilliant.
What do you wish you had known10 years ago?
Speaker 3 (31:25):
There's so much I wish.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
I had known.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
But, you know what?
There's no point in lookingback.
That's how I feel.
I feel like there should be noregrets in life.
And if I looked back, if Iwouldn't be here if.
I didn't make those mistakesright.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Oh, that's good.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
Right, and so there's a way of being that I have now
and I look, I feel like, as Imentioned before, that I always
had this kind of confidencelevel that I was confident in
what I could do and the factthat if I didn't know what I
figured out, I had great abilityto do things, to accomplish
things, to learn things.
I was really confident in myability to do that.
But today I have a differentlevel of being, that I am very
(32:03):
confident that the flow of lifeis how I don't have to control
everything.
I think in my younger dayseverything I did was to try to
control things.
Instead I have a better abilityto flex, to adjust, to stay
with the flow, to keep it moving, to plug that into my vision
and just make sure we're notcompletely diverted off path,
(32:27):
but that we just go with theflow and we're going to make it.
But that flow doesn't take meover, it's not taking me down
the waterfall, it's not takingme over.
I still have control of therudder of my boat.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
I see a number of books behind you there.
Is there a book I always ask?
I always ask is there a bookthat has been a part of your
journey that you would say, hey,if you're in leadership, an
entrepreneur, an agent, etc.
Any of these spaces, this is abook you need to read.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
Yeah, there's so many .
Look, I am a prolific reader.
I read about 300 books a yearand that's partially because I'm
a speed reader, like I can readreally quickly, and partially
because books are not as good asthey used to be, so they don't
take you like they're not, these, like you know Massive tomes
that you're gonna take you, youknow, months to read their
shorts.
That's helpful, right, but youknow, I think it probably it's a
(33:22):
little bit of an older book andprobably the last you know.
I think it's maybe 12 years oldor something like that.
But one of my favorite books andone of my favorite authors is
Shane snow, and Smartcuts is oneof my absolute favorite books
and it a lot of people missed itbecause they weren't in the
tech industry and it was kind ofa popular tech writer.
He's still a popular techwriter.
(33:42):
He has a book, dream teams and,and I think, a story, something
about story telling.
Now, like he's got a couple ofother books as well and they're
both just as good.
But I'm a big fan of smart cutsbecause what it is is this idea
that there is a smarter path togetting from a to b and there
(34:02):
are smarter choices that you canmake for your company and when
we are entrepreneurs, we need tomake those smart choices, we
need to make those cuts, and thethings that we can't do, that
we don't have time for it, needto be thinking about.
Is this still gonna get uswhere we're going going, or is
the fact that I cut this outlike a fatal flaw and that means
that I'm not gonna succeed?
(34:24):
And so thinking those thingsthrough are really critically
important.
And I love the way he wordsthat he tells these great
stories and he's an Magazinewriter, so you know, wrote for
some rights for the greatmagazines and newspapers.
So one of the people I follow,I'm always reading his articles
and and that I think, has reallythat changed the way I looked
at innovation.
(34:45):
Yeah in a different way becausethere was so much of it that I
could see inventors.
So I I have patents, and mypartner and husband and I we
have 40 patents between the twoof us my goodness.
Yeah, and the key about it islike anyone can get a patent at
the end of the day, like you canget a patent for something
really narrow and you know thatwill never be of any value.
(35:06):
But I'm proud of the fact that86% of our patents and this is
the statistic because we cite ita lot when we give lectures but
that became something thatsomebody made money off of our
clients made money or ourbusinesses made money Somebody
made money.
They commercialized thosepatents and use them.
They didn't just sit on a shelfand we're like pretty little
(35:27):
pieces of paper you got from thepatent and trademark office.
Yeah and that happens when youcan put your in innovation into
application, and too often welose the application.
So I would talk to theseinventors and I would give these
lectures and they would comeforward and they'd be like I'm
so proud of this and this.
And I'd be like, okay, are youselling it yet?
(35:48):
Where is it?
Have you been testing it?
That their path to successthey're not following, that
their whole end goal was to getthe invention patented and and
that innovation for innovationsake?
Yes, it is not useful to theworld, some and so.
(36:11):
But they think, oh, but I can'tsell it, I don't have the money
to start marketing it.
I don't have the money to dothis, so I just need my piece of
paper to sell it to somebodyelse.
But you haven't demonstratedthe value to anybody else.
So sometimes and this is theadvice that I give don't spend
money on the patent, spend moneyon doing a provisional, because
(36:32):
that's cheap.
Do a provisional, startmarketing it, do a provisional,
start making the thing, startfiguring out whether or not you
should make it and In that timeMaybe you'll find the right
buyer for it, because you'veproven enough along the way to
show them where the value liesthat you don't have enough
capital for it that they couldbring in the capital for and
(36:53):
take what you've done and takeit to the next level.
You've got your provisional, soyou're still covered and now
you spend the money on thepatenting.
But instead, if you spend$15,000 on patenting, you've cut
out your whole ability tomarket maybe even prototype.
You've taken away all the moneyfrom being able to do that.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Wow, you have shared so much wisdom and insight today
, tracy.
This has been so incrediblyhelpful.
When people leave an episodelike this, often they'll don't
remember one or two things.
If you wanted to say this isthe one thing I want you to
remember, what would that onething be?
Speaker 3 (37:28):
You have to be out there saying it.
You have to be out thereexperiencing it.
Being out there Doing is thebest way to get to being right.
If you want to be a successfulentrepreneur, you've got to be
doing things right.
The activity, the action thatyou take matters.
Now I'm not saying you shouldbe busy doing everything.
(37:51):
I'm saying do the smart thingsright, do things, because if
we're not in that, we're only inthis part of I'm gonna manifest
this yeah, it is never gonnahappen.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
Well said, I know folks are gonna want to stay
connected with you.
What is the best way for peopleto continue learning from you?
Speaker 3 (38:11):
So the best way is to follow me on LinkedIn.
It is the one place that Iparticipate in, so follow me on
LinkedIn.
We always go live on LinkedInevery single week when we do our
coaching call for our podcastsFor our clients.
We go live on LinkedIn for thefirst portion of it, so you'll
get the latest tip.
The thing that my clients arestruggling with, you're gonna
hear the tip for, and so that'sthe best place to do it.
And then you know, feel free toreach out, you listen to my
(38:33):
podcast, the binge factor andfeed your brand and you've got a
.
There isn't a place that youcan't find me.
That's means that I'm out there, right.
I'm putting myself out thereeverywhere.
When you go and Google me,you're going to find hundreds of
articles, hundreds of reasonsthat I Dominate that first page
of Google, and it's not justbecause you figured out my name.
It's because my content isthere, right, it's because my
(38:57):
advice is there.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
Well said, I've got to tell you just personally, I
have been learning so much fromthe bench factor.
So thank you for that and forsharing so freely today.
This has been such a fantasticconversation.
Thank you for being here.
Speaker 3 (39:11):
Thank you, William.
I love your show and I'm soglad you were on the bench
factor and we got to meet.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
Thanks for joining me for this episode today.
As we wrap up, I'd love for youto do two things.
First, subscribe to thispodcast so you don't miss an
episode, and if you find valuehere, I'd love it if you would
rate it and review it.
That really does make adifference in helping other
people to discover this podcast.
Second, if you don't have acopy of my newest book,
(39:39):
catalytic leadership, I'd loveto put a copy in your hands.
If you go to catalyticleadership book calm, you can
get a copy for free.
Just pay the shipping so I canget it to you and we'll get one
right out.
My goal is to put this into thehands of as many leaders as
possible.
This book captures principlesthat I've learned in 20 plus
(40:01):
years of coaching leaders in theentrepreneurial space, in
business, government, nonprofits, education and the local church
.
You can also connect with me onLinkedIn to keep up with what
I'm currently learning andthinking about.
If you're ready to take a nextstep with a coach to help you
Intentionally grow and thrive asa leader, I'd be honored to
(40:23):
help you.
Just go to catalytic leadershipnet to book a call with me.
Stay tuned for our next episodenext week.
Until then, as always, leaderschoose to be catalytic.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
Thanks for listening to catalytic leadership with dr
William Attaway.
Be sure to subscribe whereveryou listen to podcasts so you
don't miss the next episode.
Want more?
Go to catalytic leadership net.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.