July 31, 2025 • 42 mins
If your marketing feels scattered, your team’s unclear on what’s working, and the KPIs don’t connect to revenue, this episode was built for you.
I sat down with Josh Ramsey, fractional CMO, founder of JRCMO and a full-stack marketing agency, and the strategist behind more than 80,000 campaigns. We talk about what happens when marketing becomes too tactical, and how to rebuild from a systems-level perspective.
Josh shares why clarity in messaging, positioning, and internal operations matters more than chasing the next trend, especially for digital agency owners scaling past 7 figures. He breaks down how he uses personalized KPIs, 30-day diagnostic audits, and team alignment frameworks to fix the real problems under the hood. This episode explores blind spots, strategic navigation, and how a fractional CMO can help you scale without wasting time, money, or team energy.
📚 Books Mentioned
- The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen R. Covey
- The 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership by John C. Maxwell
- The Silva Mind Control Method by José Silva
To learn more about how Josh helps companies solve what others miss, visit jrcmo.com or Google "Josh Ramsey Marketing." As he says — “I'm pretty easy to find online.”
Join Dr. William Attaway on the Catalytic Leadership podcast as he shares transformative insights to help high-performance entrepreneurs and agency owners achieve Clear-Minded Focus, Calm Control, and Confidence.
- Free 30-Minute Discovery Call:
Ready to elevate your business? Book a free 30-minute discovery call with Dr. William Attaway and start your journey to success.
- Special Offer:
Get your FREE copy of Catalytic Leadership: 12 Keys to Becoming an Intentional Leader Who Makes a Difference.
Connect with Dr. William Attaway:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. William Attaway (00:00):
I am so excited today to have Josh
Ramsey on the podcast.
Josh is the owner and operatorof both JRCMO and a full-stack
marketing agency.
He's developed principles andstrategies for businesses since
2001.
During that time, joshua hassuccessfully created and
executed more than 80,000successful campaigns across the
(00:25):
US.
Josh is a fractional CMO authorand highly regarded speaker.
As someone with experience inspeaking since 2005, he teaches
executives and business ownersexactly how to cut costs and
improve their current businessso they can continue to grow.
As a true fractional chiefmarketing officer, josh gives
(00:48):
business owners unique executiveexperience along with a fresh
perspective without having topay the high salary of a
full-time employee.
He helps them to develop newstrategies for growing their
brand, increasing customeracquisition and generating new
sales.
Josh, I'm so glad you're here.
Thanks for being on the show.
Josh Ramsey (01:08):
Hey, I love that you have me.
It's great to see you again.
Intro (01:15):
It's good to see you.
Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the podcast designed to help
leaders intentionally grow andthrive.
Here is your host, author andleadership and executive coach,
Dr William Attaway.
Dr. William Attaway (01:33):
I would love to start with you sharing a
little bit of your story withour listeners.
I hit a few of the high points,but where did all this get
started?
Josh Ramsey (01:42):
You know I was even chatting with you about this
before.
But you know God, I think heworks in ways that are unseen
and then things just fall intoplace.
And for me, I was a little bitof a wanderer in my early years.
I grew up working on rancheswith my family.
My aunt, my uncle, my dad wouldtake our family sailboat racing
(02:06):
and also chartering boats inthe Caribbean.
So I did a lot.
I was blessed to do that.
It kind of led into my years ofteens and out of high school
into college.
I traveled a lot differentcountries and such, played
soccer at a very high level andthen I started a profession and
(02:27):
career of sales.
I just was really good atchatting with people.
So I was selling like crazythrough traditional media back
in the late 90s, early 2000s.
So radio, transit advertising,billboards, yellow pages, print
I did all of the traditional andmy problem was always I was
(02:48):
frustrated because I kept havingto sell and sell and sell.
I wasn't able to retain theclient and I couldn't figure out
why.
And I went to work for a reallylarge ad agency and was hired
on as a junior project managerand within two years became
senior head of, basically,client acquisition.
So all clients onboarding.
(03:10):
I was working with them,closing them, building up their
system and then handing them tothe agency to go execute on the
plan that I would build for them.
And what I learned and whatreally catapulted me to that
next level was understandingthat marketing is a whole lot
more simple than people think.
It's basically two elementsthat you focus on in the
(03:31):
beginning your strategic message, which is what you say and
what's perceived by youraudience, and then your tactical
placement of that message.
So the tactical placement'seasy because everyone goes oh, I
can set you up in AdWords, Ican do SEO, I can do this and
this and this.
Anyone can put yourself on theradio or on television, right,
(03:52):
anyone can do it.
Anyone can do a podcast.
But the content, the strategicmessage, the way it's perceived
and the engagement level that'sthe strategic side of it.
Of the tactical placement,which is simple, which is you
put on a light, you push, goright.
So these are the two elementsand the harder one is that
(04:14):
messaging.
So that was the change and then, when I did that, it really
catapulted 2009 through.
Everyone in the US remembers thegreat world of 2009, 2010.
I went through that as wellwith the layoffs.
And it was 30 days before I wasgetting married and boom, I
don't have a job anymore and I'mgoing.
(04:34):
Oh, this is going to be fun.
And my parents paid me.
They had some real estate andthey paid me to basically go
wash toilets, clean toilets, topay for my rent.
My wife was a paralegal.
She was laid off also, so wemoved into the flight path of
DFW Airport and saw our windowswould shake all the time.
(04:57):
So I constantly have a buzzing.
I'm kidding, it never went away.
It's still there.
But you see, me like shake.
It's still there, that's right.
But you see me like shake, it'sprobably what it is, but but
you know I mean so it was a hardtime but but because I've
learned so much, when I got tothat 2009, it was kind of that
make or break.
You got to step out there, youjust got to go, you just got to
(05:19):
do it.
So I went and did it.
So 2009 to 2018, I built my adagency.
I was able to step out of thead agency and have it run
without me.
Then I went and started a smallSaaS company.
So I have a small softwaredevelopment company.
We do some basic builds thatdoing the same thing.
I've got a leader on that.
I've got a leader on the agency.
(05:40):
So then I moved into what I'mdoing now.
That kind of brings us fullcircle.
So now what I do is I'm a chiefmarketing officer.
I walk into companies andidentify where they're weak,
where they're inefficient, wherethey're overspending, why, how
do we leverage it, and I use keycore principles and strategies
to implement and no matter whatbusiness it is or what they sell
(06:01):
, there's core marketing piecesin today's market and KPIs that
we identify and not.
You know if I gave you a listof 50 KPIs.
Not all 50 is going to go forevery single business, but
you're going to find a lot foreach business in each segment
and the way they do marketing.
So that that's where I'm attoday is I'm building more than
(06:22):
just coming in and being, youknow, a professional of one
thing, of just, let's say, aHubSpot or a Salesforce, or just
knowing digital marketing.
I'm the guy that knows all ofit and I help companies figure
out the pieces of the puzzle,not just one little part, and I
think that still falls on somany people and I'm sorry.
(06:43):
I'm sorry, william, I'm goingdown a huge road here, but it's
this part right here.
I'll end on and kick it back toyou.
To me, this is the biggest painpoint that is out there today
is that people keep going backto these marketing gurus and
they're getting this rechurnedpitch, that they're getting sold
(07:04):
on and they're not seeing whatthey need.
They're being sold whatsomeone's good at, not what they
actually need, and that's it'smind-blowing to me.
Dr. William Attaway (07:16):
It's so true.
You know, with your experience,you have a very unique
perspective here.
You have worked for an adagency, you built a marketing, a
digital marketing company fromthe ground up and now, as a
fractional CMO, you're goinginto other people's companies to
see what's under the hood andad agencies.
Josh Ramsey (07:35):
Ad agencies also hire me to come help them
improve.
Dr. William Attaway (07:40):
So you've got a pretty broad perspective.
You're not just looking at thewhole board of what you've built
.
You're seeing a whole bunch ofother boards on the table.
So, thinking about that, I lovewhere you were going there,
talking about how people sooften come in and they want to
bring their solution, their onehammer that they've got in their
(08:01):
bag that's supposed to hitevery nail, supposed to do
everything you want to do, theone solution to fix them all.
That's a wonderful myth.
I've never found that to beactual reality anywhere, but I
know a lot of people bring thatin.
What do you do different?
Like as you come in as afractional CMO or as you come in
as a marketing agency, insteadof saying, hey, we do this and
(08:23):
this will solve every problemyou ever have now or ever will
have.
What do you do differently?
Josh Ramsey (08:29):
You know, I like to be honest with myself and
people that I talk to as much asI can and be very transparent
on a lot of things.
So I'm going to tell you what Ido and what I believe is true
for me, and I don't want to saynecessarily that other people
don't do this, but I have notseen it and I have not heard it.
And I don't want to saynecessarily that other people
don't do this, but I have notseen it and I have not heard it.
And I try to pay attention to alot of channels but, as
(08:49):
everyone knows, there's so muchmedia out there.
It's like you have to pick andchoose what you listen to.
Yes, so, with that in mind,don't want to act like I am the
world's greatest, but I havefigured out some really key
things that are alwaysconsistent with every single
business, and it's what somepeople call the unique selling
(09:10):
position.
So the USP of being a uniqueselling position, I think, where
people like the idea but theydon't know how to get to it.
So where I do believe that I'mbetter is as you get more and
more narrow into something I'mreally good at diving into those
intersections to find it.
So USP really, in my vision, isbuilt on what's called your
(09:34):
narrative.
So now we're moving intopsychology.
So, william, you anyone mightbe watching listening follow me
for a minute.
We're not going to talk aboutmarketing.
We're going to talk aboutourselves, our people, who we
are as a person and what we have, and it's going to come full
circle If you'll stick with mefor just a minute here.
But what we have as people iswe were raised a certain way and
(09:55):
in humans we were raised with amother, a father they were
there or they weren't there agrandmother we had humans around
us to help raise us.
The narrative is what does thatlook like?
Whoever raised you?
What did you get?
What did you not get?
You can learn a lot about thatwith different types of
psychology, but one that I likethe most personally is what's
(10:18):
called the trauma egg, and thetrauma egg is you draw this.
You get a big piece of paper,and I'm not going to go through
all the details, but you get abig piece of paper, you draw an
egg, you start at the bottom andyou don't write words, you only
draw pictures and you thinkthrough things that have
happened in your life with thevery first memory you've ever
had and then, chronologicallythroughout your life, you write
(10:40):
and draw pictures of everythingthat you remember of your life,
every impactful story, good orbad, it doesn't matter.
You write it out.
And when you do that, what Ihave found time and time again
is that you start to find trendsand patterns from your history
to where you are today, and whatI found for mine is I had a
(11:01):
very blessed life.
If anyone's been listening tothis, they heard me.
I got to do some awesome thingssailboats, work with horses,
break and train horses.
Put my hand and arm andshoulder into the rear end of a
cow to preg check.
I mean, it was the grossestthing you've ever could imagine.
But while doing all that crazythat I've done, I did find that
(11:24):
a big thing for me was what'scalled abandonment, because
there were times in my life thatI felt very alone.
There were things that happenedwhere I just felt like I'm gone
.
One of the big parts of thatwas my mom died of a heart
attack in her sleep in 2014.
And even now it gets meemotional, so I can't think
about it too much right now, butit was such a ground shaking
(11:48):
event for me and it just was outof the blue and there was so
much going on and it rocked mehard and that abandonment again,
she did like she wants to behere, you know what I mean, but
she, she's gone and it's likethat abandonment.
What it did for me, as I as Inow bring it back to marketing
(12:10):
is because I have theabandonment issues.
I work extra hard, without evenrealizing it, to make people
happy and give them what theyneed so they never feel
abandoned, they never feel alone.
But that comes from my USP.
So my USP is I've got all thisknowledge, I know what's going
(12:33):
on, I know how it works, I'vebeen there.
I've done that.
Very rarely does something comeacross my table where I'm like,
whoa, that's new, that doesn'thappen.
And I can even talk about ai ina second, if you want, because
everybody has this buzz on ai.
But I'm looking at, I'm going,you know, the, the, the usp of
people understanding theirnarrative through whatever way
(12:54):
that they want to do it andbuilding that on their business.
Businesses are built by humans,they're built by humans, the
algorithms and ar built byhumans and connected and running
based on humans, right.
So when you look at this.
That narrative is really whatmakes you, william, you, anyone,
listening.
(13:14):
That's what makes you unique.
So, whether you work forsomeone or you are the company,
you are the brand.
Whatever it is, we all havethat USP.
It's more about how we takethat USP and use it to draw
people.
In One of my main statementsthat I share a lot in
conferences, it's Zig Ziglarsaid it's not what you say, it's
(13:36):
how you say it.
Yes, but in today's age that'snot true.
Today's age, it's not what yousay, it's not how you say it,
it's what's perceived by youraudience, because too much of
our world is in digitalmarketing.
So the perception you don'talways know where I can say
something to you, william, andthen I go whoa, william, I kind
(13:57):
of missaid that.
The only reason I would saythat is I see the expression on
your face and realize I made youmad.
And then I go wait, I didn'tmean to make you mad, I misspoke
.
It's still that perception.
But on the web, on your website, on your flyer, on your
tactical marketing, where youcan't see their re, their
reaction, that's where your USPhas to really play its part and
(14:20):
your strategic message has gotto be locked in.
Dr. William Attaway (14:24):
Wow, that's so good.
I'm just I'm blown away becauseI'm thinking about my USP.
Like hearing you tell yourstory, I'm thinking about mine
and thinking about how thatdrives so much of what I do.
You know, my dad started atraditional ad agency back in
the 70s.
You know, ran traditional media45 years.
(14:47):
Right, I watched that.
I grew up in that world.
I watched it, I saw it, but hedidn't have somebody to come
alongside of him to help him seewhat he couldn't see, to help
him discover and deal with hisblind spots, and that caused a
whole lot of ripples thattouched all the people around
him because of what he built itwasn't done in a healthy and
(15:10):
sustainable way.
What do I do now?
I come alongside leaders andthe niche I specialize in is
digital marketing world and Ihelp them see what they can't
see so they can make their runat a healthy and sustainable
pace.
That's my USP.
That's what I'm hearing.
I love that man.
Josh Ramsey (15:29):
That's so good you just nailed it and you've seen
it, and I think you couldprobably go even deeper with
that, william, like if I workedwith you and I'm just using this
I'm not, this isn't meant to bea it and you've seen it.
And I think you could probablygo even deeper with that,
william, like 100, if I workedwith you and I'm just using this
I'm not, this isn't meant to bea pitch but to understand more,
because you can do this on yourown, without me.
Anyone out there can do thiswithout me.
I'm not a.
I didn't create it myself.
Someone else created the traumaegg.
(15:49):
I've just put together thepieces.
I put together the algorithm,if you on how I see it working
in my mind.
But back to what we were saying.
I think if you did the traumaegg, I think you would also
start to identify other keycharacteristics and pieces.
That would take your USP, wheremaybe you were here at the
bottom when we started talkingand then you jumped 10 levels.
(16:13):
But I bet if you went down theUSP and you really dove into
your narrative and really triedto identify all the key factors,
I bet you'd jump 30 or 40 more.
And the key is, william, thatwhen you just using you for a
minute.
If you can take yourself fromzero to 10 and then you take
(16:33):
yourself from 10 to 40 andyou're 40% better.
Now the key you have to thinkabout is we go back to what I
said.
It's the perception.
So, william, someone's lookingfor a business coach.
They go to your website.
Right now you've been at zero.
We just had a conversation.
Your mind opened to somethingdifferent.
You're now going to look atyour website and you're going to
(17:01):
take your website from zero to10.
Is it better?
Yes, but you're still competingwith how many people that maybe
already have that?
How many attitudes are youstill stuck in?
If you jump from that 10 tothat 40, it shifts so much more
where now you start to realizeyou get away from the platitude
of a statement and you can showpeople how to explain the deeper
passion of what's going on,right.
(17:23):
So so that's where you end up.
If you build this in a web world.
That's when you have the mazeand the clicks and the and the
funnel traffic of where peoplecan go in the navigation.
You know, for instance, when wetalk about USP, I see this and
it drives me insane.
It is my biggest pet peeve.
I look at websites and the firstthing that I see is their
(17:43):
navigation and I see the wordhome and blogs, along with a
bunch of other crap.
But they're using the wordblogs and I'm going to tell you,
I've asked thousands andthousands of people.
I said hey, everybody, themajority of the time how many of
you have ever gone to a websitelooking for something like a
service or a tool or something?
(18:03):
And then when you're looking atthe service or a tool or
whatever it is on the website acar, whatever and you go up and
you look in the navigation andyou see the word blogs and you
click on it and not one personhas ever been honest and said no
, everyone's like.
No, I don't do it like, butyou're not controlling the user
navigation to tell them whatthey should know.
(18:26):
Because now, when we startgetting deeper in this and
hopefully, william, this isgoing the way of the podcast you
wanted.
Dr. William Attaway (18:32):
That's just great.
No, totally, yeah, totally.
Josh Ramsey (18:35):
But now we get to the next level of you know, I
ask business owners what are thethree main questions people ask
you when they walk through yourdoor?
And I get these answers fromthem.
Then we pause, we talk throughit and then I go okay, now reset
the table.
What are the three questionsthey should be asking you when
they walk through your door?
(18:55):
And it's interesting, when thebusiness owner, they shift their
brain and they go holy crap andimmediately the conversation
and the narrative changes.
Because now we get to thislevel of like okay, my website
sucks and I'm like your websitedoesn't necessarily need to be
rebuilt, it just needs to bereorganized, right.
(19:18):
So you know, my kids they arekids, they like to throw stuff
on the floor and I walk in thereand it's a mess.
It's not that we need to redotheir room, it's that it needs
to be organized differently,right, right.
So that's where you have tokind of think through that
process of now.
What's your user navigation andcontrolling the user navigation
(19:41):
?
Because you're a business coach,there's probably three to five
things that most business ownersare thinking about before they
hire you.
You should already know whatthey are.
You should have on your websiteshould already know what they
are.
You should have on your website.
These are the four things thatpeople want to know and then you
can go.
If this isn't it, go here andsearch the rest of my material.
(20:03):
Then, if you have a crap ton ofblogs, then do a blog right and
do a search bar for the blogs,but start leading them and
showing them.
You're the expert, no matterwhat you do.
You're the expert no matterwhat you do, even if you're a
bath and kitchen guy.
Find a unique way to put it upthere and a unique selling
position of that.
You know people buy stories,man.
(20:24):
That's the life.
Dr. William Attaway (20:27):
And this is why I think you've just
illustrated the biggestdifference that I have ever seen
illustrated of why you hire afractional chief marketing
officer, because what you'redescribing is not tactics.
What you're describing is at ahigher strategic level.
You're looking at the entireboard and saying how is it that
(20:51):
we can win, how is it that yourclients can win, based on where
all the pieces are, includingthe client, the potential
clients?
How are we looking from theirperspective?
That's a gift man.
That's a gift Josh.
I want our listeners to reallykey into this, because if you
are not thinking at this levelwith your business, whatever it
(21:11):
is that you're leading, whetherit's an agency, whether it's
some other type of business ifyou are not thinking at this
level with your business,whatever it is that you're
leading, whether it's an agency,whether it's some other type of
business if you are notthinking at this level, things
are about to change.
You mentioned AI a minute ago.
Things are about to change.
We're about to see asignificant shift in the digital
marketing world and havingsomebody in your corner like
(21:33):
Josh, who is thinking at thatstrategic level, who is helping
you see around the corners, isgoing to become increasingly
important.
Josh, as you talk with peopleand you talk with potential
clients, you talk with yourclients, businesses all over.
What are some of the biggestthings that you see them
struggling with?
(21:53):
That you say, hey, I want youto spin that jewel and catch
that light just a littledifferently, because you're
looking at it one way.
There's a whole different way.
What are some of those things?
Josh Ramsey (22:05):
I don't ever like putting.
I know I appreciate thequestion, I'm going to answer it
, but I like to.
I like to frame it a little bitdifferently, because every
business owner really comes inwith something different,
because their narrative isdifferent.
So where one person is strong,another person is weak.
What brings me the uniquenessfor myself to to the, to the
(22:28):
relationship is I'm able to seethat and I'm good at analyzing
where are you strong, where areyou weak, what team do you have
and what do you need to do?
So I'm able to set up andframework within 30 days where
they're at and where they wantto get to, and that's what I do.
So first 30 days I work withanybody.
(22:50):
It's a starter program is whatI call it.
It's very transparent pricing.
If anyone ever wanted to lookme up, they could find it.
But we spend the first 30 daysreally analyzing what have you
been doing, where do you want togo, how are you trying to get
there, who do you have on theteam All these other questions
and it's always uniqueinformation.
Back, the number one thing thathappens that is consistent is
(23:15):
that I work more with CFOs thanCEOs Interesting, because CEOs
don't get involved until the CFOtells them they have to.
Because the world that happensis that a CEO says all right,
and I'm going to simplify thisAll right, I'm the CEO, I want
money.
Who do I go to if I want money?
(23:36):
I go to my head of sales, or Igo to my CFO, or both CFO,
where's all my money?
Where's it at?
I don't feel like I have anymoney, like what's going on.
Well, you need to sell moreHead of sales.
Sell more Head of sales.
Well, we need more marketing.
(23:56):
Stop spending money.
Sales, right.
So that's what happens.
Dr. William Attaway (24:00):
So when you ask me, what do I?
Josh Ramsey (24:01):
do.
That's what happens in everybusiness, right.
That's good and they all pointat each other.
What happens is I step into apicture that's I'm going to use
the word dysfunctional it's notreally dysfunctional, but if
you're in that and maybe youhave it going, but now you got
to get to that next paradigm,right, and maybe you have it
going, but now you've got to getto that next paradigm, right,
maybe you've worked through thatstruggle.
(24:22):
Maybe someone's hearing me andgoing, yeah, I used to be there,
but I'm not there anymore.
I'm on the next level, great.
Well, if you're on the nextlevel and you're hearing this
podcast with Dr William here,you're trying to figure out that
you don't have that function.
Now you're at that next level,but what happens is what got you
(24:42):
here won't get you there, bingo.
So you still have to figure outthe right people on the bus for
you to be able to get to thatnext level.
And sometimes, like what DrWilliams said here, sometimes
it's a strategist, not amarketing person, right, and I
kind of fall into a lot ofdifferent buckets of you know,
mental health coach to a degree,as well as a psychologist to a
(25:03):
degree.
You know what I mean A CFO to alow level degree, but it's what
I'm good at is is seeing wherethe blind spots are.
We can't see our own blindspots, but we can see others and
when you have that rightstrategist they can help you
guide through that.
But again back to my main point.
The CFO comes to me typicallyfirst because they go the CEO is
(25:26):
asking for money and I can'tproduce it, our marketing is out
of control and we don't knowwhat we're really getting for it
.
So I walk in and set the properKPIs for the entire company
related to marketing andspending and lead gen.
When you have that, it creates avery clear picture of what you
need to do.
And that's where I work is.
(25:46):
Sometimes I'm that 30 day guyand I'm out.
Sometimes I'm a three or fourmonth guy and then I'm out.
It just depends on.
Each scenario is a little bitdifferent, but that's pretty
much the common commonality inevery business out there.
So good man.
Dr. William Attaway (26:02):
I love the generosity that you're
displaying just today in sharingsome of what you've learned so
far and how you're helping otherpeople.
You know you have tocontinually be growing as a
leader.
Your business needs you to leadat a higher level today than it
did five years ago, and fiveyears from now that's only going
to be more true.
Your team, your clients, yourbusiness they're going to
(26:24):
require more of you.
How do you continue to level up?
How do you develop the skillsthat you are going to need to be
able to lead your team, yourbusiness, your clients at that
level?
Josh Ramsey (26:37):
Yeah Well, there's no magic, magic bullet.
The thing that drives me insane, honestly, is that I watch
reels or podcasts or something,and everyone's like I'm gonna
tell you the three thingsthat'll never fail you and I'm
like, and then they'll end.
They'll end with something likeand plug in ai, you know it'll,
it'll be your brain, and I'mlike it won't.
(26:59):
You know, I come on, you knowit.
Just so.
The first thing is is thatanyone out there that hears my
voice is unique.
Every, every single person isunique and they and every one of
us, as humans need to lean intoour uniqueness and and while
it's weird to one person, it'snot to the others you just you
(27:25):
have to be who you are.
There's so much more.
I could just pour into peopleon that topic alone, because
that's where my heart is is like.
I have been that outsider.
I have moved a lot.
I have that narrative ofabandonment.
You know, indifferent.
It's different for me than itwas for someone who grew up in
an orphanage.
(27:45):
So I want to be very clear andcareful of it's just.
This is how I lived.
It's not a comparison, it is me.
So when you asked me this greatquestion of how do I grow.
I want people to realize thisis just me.
It's not necessarily what youshould do, but what I have found
is, if you can find, I love thestatement and I wish I could
(28:05):
find this author.
But back when I was a little kidI heard my dad listening to
books on tape and this man onetime said it drove me crazy, all
these books on tape, but thisone thing stuck with me and it
was huge on tape.
But this one thing stuck withme and it was huge, he said.
He said if you walk into a roomof a hundred people, it asked
each one of them to open andclose their eyes and ask them
(28:27):
what do they see when they walkinto the room?
And he said you're probablygoing to get about a hundred
different answers.
He said the key is why doesevery one of those hundred
people look at the roomdifferently?
He said they all have adifferent narrative, a different
way to see the world.
And if we only use 30% of ourbrain, according to science, why
(28:47):
could we not bump that 30 to 40to 50?
If we can see the world the wayothers see it?
So when I look at things, and Igo all right, I hear Dr Williams
say something and I really likethat.
I'm going to take that andapply it to my life.
And then I hear this over hereand I take it and I apply it to
my life, so my knowledge reallybecomes everything that I do.
(29:09):
I use a platform that I havereally enjoyed.
It's not what I would say isthe best of the best, but I like
them.
So here's a shameless plug forthe company Masterclass.
It's been really good, becausewhat I'm paying for in getting
out of it is I'm listening todifferent CEOs, authors, experts
(29:31):
, people that have functioned ata high level in their field,
and even a storyteller gave mesome interesting insights.
To stop every day at the end ofthe day and journal something
interesting that happened thatday.
And just by trying to do thatfor even a few minutes and I'm
terrible at it, but even when Ido it, I do find a huge
(29:54):
transition in my brain to thenext level.
And again, I think some peopleneed to work harder and I think
some people need to work lesshard, and for me, I feel like I
need to work less hard Again.
I don't want to go too deep onthis, but it is one of the
things that I teach, but in mynarrative it was always go, go,
go.
I was the go-getter, I'll getit done, just give it to me.
(30:15):
Let me go Now, me, let me goNow.
I'm having to learn a new levelin my world and my growth and
what's going to be next for me,to where I need to stop.
I need to rest, I need to relaxand take a breath, because
every time in my business that Ihave stopped, I've handed
things off and trusted someoneelse to do it for me and
(30:37):
trusting with confidence andgiving him the support I have 10
X where I was to where I am nowWow.
Dr. William Attaway (30:47):
There is no such thing as a wasted
experience, and everything youhave described that has made you
into the leader, the businessowner, the fractional CMO that
you are.
Every bit of that has hascontributed to your story.
That is true for every one ofour listeners too.
I love the trauma egg.
I think that's a phenomenalexercise to walk through.
(31:09):
As you are learning, as you aretaking in all these things, you
know whether it's masterclasslike.
Is there a book in particularthat has made a big difference
in your journey that you'drecommend?
Josh Ramsey (31:22):
I think that there's.
There's principles and lawsthat have made it, and I think
that there's only a few handfulof people that have written them
.
I think, uh, steve Covey is isprobably one of the main ones,
you know social proof and youknow, seek first to understand
before being understood.
That's a big exactly.
Yes, so I would say that.
(31:43):
And then on the business side.
So I think that, like Covey ismore of the marketing, in my, in
my learning style, is he's moreof the marketing.
How do you communicate, how doyou build social proof?
You know, how do you consultwith somebody?
And then, um and I'm goingblank on the name, but you'll
(32:03):
know- it the 21.
Irrefutable Laws of Leadership.
John Maxwell yeah, and Maxwellhas written a lot of good stuff,
but that's probably one of myother favorite ones that
probably about once a year, onceevery other year, I will go
back through that book and theworkbook and try to process that
again, just to kind of see whatdid I think a couple of years
ago and what do I think now.
So I have the same old workbookthat I'm in, so then I can be
(32:25):
like oh wow, I used to thinkthat way, but now I'm here and
when you see that maturation foryourself, you know what I mean.
It's yes.
Dr. William Attaway (32:32):
So well, growth happens on the other side
of change.
Everybody wants to grow, but ittakes change to get there.
And's that maturation, thattransformation process, yeah,
and having the ability to seethat in your scribbles, in your
notes over time, that'sinvaluable because it increases
your self-awareness.
Josh Ramsey (32:51):
yeah, the other one that I will say is jose uh
silva.
Um, if anyone's ever seen this,I do not subscribe to it.
I'm not telling people tosubscribe, subscribe to it.
But Jose Silva came out withmind modes and, uh, this was
quite interesting because if youstart thinking about the
(33:11):
different levels of your brainand how it operates, you have
alpha mode, beta mode, thetamode, delta mode.
You have all these differentmodes in your mind of how it
operates in between, like yoursleep, your deep sleep, your REM
sleep, your high functioning,high awake, and his theory was I
can teach anyone to transitiontheir mind to these mind modes
(33:32):
quickly and interesting.
And that was his, his theoryand I I believe that it did work
.
I have read things that it didwork, uh, but he did it with his
kids was where he started andhe taught them to be a high
level thinkers and be able tomove their brain into a higher
source.
And if you think about it, aprofessional athlete has to
(33:55):
operate at an alpha mode in thehighest form, right, right,
while most of us live in thebeta.
I take that and again, I've gota million stories that I that I
love and I'm always hungry formore, starving for great stories
all the time, but one of them.
I was listening to talk radioand they were talking just
(34:16):
randomly, a little snippetinterview with a guy that worked
for the Dallas Mavericks and hewas in charge of the
announcements, the uh music, theentertainment while the game
was going on, and so likewhenever you like for the Dallas
Mavericks, the NBA team, youhave let's go Mavs, and then you
(34:37):
know, you have, like, you know,defense, defense, right, these
chants.
He was talking about the ebband flow of your brain and how
your brain has to know when torelax versus when to amp up and
it has to be at the right timeof the game.
Last five minutes, first twominutes, the most impactful,
(34:57):
last 30 to 60 seconds of eachquarter.
These are like impactful timeswhere he's like there are also
low times, where it's like afterthe first, like I don't
remember what he said, but thefirst six minutes of the first
quarter, he's like that's thelowest time, cause people are
still finding their seat,they're getting comfortable,
they're talking with theirfriends.
The game has a long way to go,but like the middle part of that
(35:20):
first quarter is just the mostdead time of the audience.
So he said I don't try to ampit, but I try to just get them
involved enough so that wecreate an emotional attachment
to them.
So I find that fascinating,because when you take that and
you think about someone speakingat a conference, what is the
majority of the time that youlose them?
(35:40):
You take that and you look atyour ads, when is the majority
of the time you lose them?
So I'll just tell you on socialmedia and then I'll stop again.
William, sorry, I actuallydon't know these games.
No, this is great, keep going.
But when you think about theengagement of reels, most people
don't realize this.
But it's a three-step process.
(36:01):
It's disrupt, engage and thenoffer.
Those are the three simplifiedways that social media reels
need to work.
No reel ultimately should bemore than 15 seconds, should
never.
And it's structured veryclearly.
First three seconds is yourdisrupt.
It is make them stop.
(36:22):
Don't let them keep scrolling.
Make them look at you and dosomething that they're like what
?
The next nine seconds is theengagement of education.
The engagement of nine secondsis let me dive in a little bit
deeper, let me get you goinginto this more, putting them
into the setting them up for thelast three seconds of hook them
(36:45):
, get them to take the next stepfollow, like, comment, go to my
website, sign up for this,whatever it is.
That's what you want them to doin that next three seconds.
And then, internally, we set ourKPIs based on whatever call to
action was, if it was a like, ifit was a follow, if it was a
view you know what I mean.
(37:05):
How many seconds was the view?
Those become our KPIs that weset.
And that kind of goes back towhat you asked me earlier.
Well, you walk into a company.
What do you set?
Well, if we're not runningsocial media, we're going to
have a different set of KPIsthan we will.
You know what I mean if we'redoing print or billboards.
So that's where you know what Imean.
Some of that comes in.
So, again, I took you a hugetornado.
Dr. William Attaway (37:29):
That's so good, though.
That was incredibly helpful.
My goodness, it's so good, josh.
All right, last question, andthen we got to tie a bow on it.
So you are operating at in avery high level, not just in
your agency, but in everythingelse that you're doing.
If I had the ability to snap myfingers and solve one problem
(37:54):
for you right now as a businessowner, what would you love for
that problem to be?
Josh Ramsey (38:01):
as a business owner , what would you love for that
problem to be?
You know it's really for Ithink a lot of business owners
run into this and you and Ispoke briefly about it as well
it's being able to elevateyourself, knowing your blind
spots, knowing you have a blindspot, being aware that you have
a blind spot but you don't knowwhat it is.
So it's finding someone thatcan see that blind spot for you
and clearly communicate thatblind spot to me, but also
(38:25):
others.
You know, building that teambut building me to where I can
step out and hand off to someoneelse, because if I can hand off
to someone else, that allows meto free myself up to move on to
other places.
Now I know you're asking aboutme.
Maybe that helps somebody, butI think it's going to be
different for everybody, right?
But I do believe that theconsistency there will be.
(38:49):
Do you have someone in your lifethat can speak to your blind
spot?
And I do.
I have those people, but Idon't have right now and I'm
looking for is that I think weall need to have and be open
about it.
We need to have that coach.
You know, pastors at churchesthey have that coach big CEOs.
(39:10):
They have that coach, they havesomebody, and even if they're
just a shoulder to cry onbecause they can't cry to their
people that they work with ortheir coworkers or, you know,
their bosses they need someoneelse.
That counseling, that's a partof mental health.
That's always been there.
It's just now it's more youknow out there that people are
more willing to talk about it,but it's always been there.
(39:31):
It's always been good.
It's just what does the formand shape look like to identify
your blind spot?
Cause your blind spot can be alot of different things.
Right, it can be hurts, habits,hangups, and it also can be hey
, you have a blind spot thatyou're actually better than you
think, and if you don't have agood leader, then that leader
doesn't know how to tell youthat you are better than you
(39:53):
think.
Therefore, you should maybe beleapfrogging that leader and
that becomes something again, atotally different direction, but
something else to consider.
Dr. William Attaway (40:03):
That's so true.
This is why I've had coachesfor decades in different areas,
because they help me see what Ican't see.
I think this is so criticallyimportant.
If you don't identify yourblind spots, you will never
overcome them because you can't.
So, so, so, so helpful, josh.
We could keep going and I knowwe could do another hour or even
(40:23):
two.
There's so much insight andwisdom you have dropped today in
such a short time.
I know people listening aregoing to want to connect with
you and stay connected and learnmore from you and about what
you're doing.
What is the best way for themto do that?
Josh Ramsey (40:39):
I would say you could probably go to my website.
You can Google me.
We're working on my socialmedia right now.
I've been so busy in so manyother things it's kind of what
we've been talking about.
I've been so busy with justrunning the day to day that I
haven't really focused on my ownsocial media.
So we're building that up.
So, depending on the day thatsomeone hears this episode, it
may change.
But you can Google me by justtyping in Josh Ramsey Marketing
(41:03):
or you can go direct to my site,jrcmocom.
It stands for Josh Ramsey,Chief Marketing Officer, and I'm
pretty easy to find online andI always like to make a joke.
Most people know who.
Dave Ramsey the financial guruis right, that's right.
So my dad is Dave Ramsey, thefinancial guru is right, so my
dad is Dave Ramsey.
He's not that Dave.
(41:25):
Ramsey but my dad is.
Dave Ramsey my dad is DaveRamsey and he's the older Dave
Ramsey, so does that make?
him more wise.
I don't know, one day I'mprobably gonna get a call from
Dave Ramsey.
I'll be like nope, really, Ihave them on my phone.
My dad is Dave Ramsey, so I'mclear on it.
Okay, no infringement.
But but you know what I mean.
(41:46):
Here's the deal.
Right Like that, that tiessomething in your brain into a
podcast.
Now you, you get off thepodcast, you go, get in your car
, you go here, you go there andyou're like who was that person?
Dave Ramsey, Josh Ramsey,Ramsey Marketing, Josh Ramsey.
Then they're like boom, itconnects and it ties it through.
That's part of branding.
So I use it as branding andpeople remember me and they come
(42:09):
back and find me Josh RamseyMarketing, and I'm everywhere on
Google.
Dr. William Attaway (42:13):
It's so good, josh, we will have all
those links in the show notes.
Thank you so much for yourgenerosity and your time today.
I am so excited today to have Josh
Ramsey on the podcast.
Josh is the owner and operatorof both JRCMO and a full-stack
marketing agency.
He's developed principles andstrategies for businesses since
2001.
During that time, joshua hassuccessfully created and
executed more than 80,000successful campaigns across the
(00:25):
US.
Josh is a fractional CMO authorand highly regarded speaker.
As someone with experience inspeaking since 2005, he teaches
executives and business ownersexactly how to cut costs and
improve their current businessso they can continue to grow.
As a true fractional chiefmarketing officer, josh gives
(00:48):
business owners unique executiveexperience along with a fresh
perspective without having topay the high salary of a
full-time employee.
He helps them to develop newstrategies for growing their
brand, increasing customeracquisition and generating new
sales.
Josh, I'm so glad you're here.
Thanks for being on the show.
Josh Ramsey (01:08):
Hey, I love that you have me.
It's great to see you again.
Intro (01:15):
It's good to see you.
Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the podcast designed to help
leaders intentionally grow andthrive.
Here is your host, author andleadership and executive coach,
Dr William Attaway.
Dr. William Attaway (01:33):
I would love to start with you sharing a
little bit of your story withour listeners.
I hit a few of the high points,but where did all this get
started?
Josh Ramsey (01:42):
You know I was even chatting with you about this
before.
But you know God, I think heworks in ways that are unseen
and then things just fall intoplace.
And for me, I was a little bitof a wanderer in my early years.
I grew up working on rancheswith my family.
My aunt, my uncle, my dad wouldtake our family sailboat racing
(02:06):
and also chartering boats inthe Caribbean.
So I did a lot.
I was blessed to do that.
It kind of led into my years ofteens and out of high school
into college.
I traveled a lot differentcountries and such, played
soccer at a very high level andthen I started a profession and
(02:27):
career of sales.
I just was really good atchatting with people.
So I was selling like crazythrough traditional media back
in the late 90s, early 2000s.
So radio, transit advertising,billboards, yellow pages, print
I did all of the traditional andmy problem was always I was
(02:48):
frustrated because I kept havingto sell and sell and sell.
I wasn't able to retain theclient and I couldn't figure out
why.
And I went to work for a reallylarge ad agency and was hired
on as a junior project managerand within two years became
senior head of, basically,client acquisition.
So all clients onboarding.
(03:10):
I was working with them,closing them, building up their
system and then handing them tothe agency to go execute on the
plan that I would build for them.
And what I learned and whatreally catapulted me to that
next level was understandingthat marketing is a whole lot
more simple than people think.
It's basically two elementsthat you focus on in the
(03:31):
beginning your strategic message, which is what you say and
what's perceived by youraudience, and then your tactical
placement of that message.
So the tactical placement'seasy because everyone goes oh, I
can set you up in AdWords, Ican do SEO, I can do this and
this and this.
Anyone can put yourself on theradio or on television, right,
(03:52):
anyone can do it.
Anyone can do a podcast.
But the content, the strategicmessage, the way it's perceived
and the engagement level that'sthe strategic side of it.
Of the tactical placement,which is simple, which is you
put on a light, you push, goright.
So these are the two elementsand the harder one is that
(04:14):
messaging.
So that was the change and then, when I did that, it really
catapulted 2009 through.
Everyone in the US remembers thegreat world of 2009, 2010.
I went through that as wellwith the layoffs.
And it was 30 days before I wasgetting married and boom, I
don't have a job anymore and I'mgoing.
(04:34):
Oh, this is going to be fun.
And my parents paid me.
They had some real estate andthey paid me to basically go
wash toilets, clean toilets, topay for my rent.
My wife was a paralegal.
She was laid off also, so wemoved into the flight path of
DFW Airport and saw our windowswould shake all the time.
(04:57):
So I constantly have a buzzing.
I'm kidding, it never went away.
It's still there.
But you see, me like shake.
It's still there, that's right.
But you see me like shake, it'sprobably what it is, but but
you know I mean so it was a hardtime but but because I've
learned so much, when I got tothat 2009, it was kind of that
make or break.
You got to step out there, youjust got to go, you just got to
(05:19):
do it.
So I went and did it.
So 2009 to 2018, I built my adagency.
I was able to step out of thead agency and have it run
without me.
Then I went and started a smallSaaS company.
So I have a small softwaredevelopment company.
We do some basic builds thatdoing the same thing.
I've got a leader on that.
I've got a leader on the agency.
(05:40):
So then I moved into what I'mdoing now.
That kind of brings us fullcircle.
So now what I do is I'm a chiefmarketing officer.
I walk into companies andidentify where they're weak,
where they're inefficient, wherethey're overspending, why, how
do we leverage it, and I use keycore principles and strategies
to implement and no matter whatbusiness it is or what they sell
(06:01):
, there's core marketing piecesin today's market and KPIs that
we identify and not.
You know if I gave you a listof 50 KPIs.
Not all 50 is going to go forevery single business, but
you're going to find a lot foreach business in each segment
and the way they do marketing.
So that that's where I'm attoday is I'm building more than
(06:22):
just coming in and being, youknow, a professional of one
thing, of just, let's say, aHubSpot or a Salesforce, or just
knowing digital marketing.
I'm the guy that knows all ofit and I help companies figure
out the pieces of the puzzle,not just one little part, and I
think that still falls on somany people and I'm sorry.
(06:43):
I'm sorry, william, I'm goingdown a huge road here, but it's
this part right here.
I'll end on and kick it back toyou.
To me, this is the biggest painpoint that is out there today
is that people keep going backto these marketing gurus and
they're getting this rechurnedpitch, that they're getting sold
(07:04):
on and they're not seeing whatthey need.
They're being sold whatsomeone's good at, not what they
actually need, and that's it'smind-blowing to me.
Dr. William Attaway (07:16):
It's so true.
You know, with your experience,you have a very unique
perspective here.
You have worked for an adagency, you built a marketing, a
digital marketing company fromthe ground up and now, as a
fractional CMO, you're goinginto other people's companies to
see what's under the hood andad agencies.
Josh Ramsey (07:35):
Ad agencies also hire me to come help them
improve.
Dr. William Attaway (07:40):
So you've got a pretty broad perspective.
You're not just looking at thewhole board of what you've built
.
You're seeing a whole bunch ofother boards on the table.
So, thinking about that, I lovewhere you were going there,
talking about how people sooften come in and they want to
bring their solution, their onehammer that they've got in their
(08:01):
bag that's supposed to hitevery nail, supposed to do
everything you want to do, theone solution to fix them all.
That's a wonderful myth.
I've never found that to beactual reality anywhere, but I
know a lot of people bring thatin.
What do you do different?
Like as you come in as afractional CMO or as you come in
as a marketing agency, insteadof saying, hey, we do this and
(08:23):
this will solve every problemyou ever have now or ever will
have.
What do you do differently?
Josh Ramsey (08:29):
You know, I like to be honest with myself and
people that I talk to as much asI can and be very transparent
on a lot of things.
So I'm going to tell you what Ido and what I believe is true
for me, and I don't want to saynecessarily that other people
don't do this, but I have notseen it and I have not heard it.
And I don't want to saynecessarily that other people
don't do this, but I have notseen it and I have not heard it.
And I try to pay attention to alot of channels but, as
(08:49):
everyone knows, there's so muchmedia out there.
It's like you have to pick andchoose what you listen to.
Yes, so, with that in mind,don't want to act like I am the
world's greatest, but I havefigured out some really key
things that are alwaysconsistent with every single
business, and it's what somepeople call the unique selling
(09:10):
position.
So the USP of being a uniqueselling position, I think, where
people like the idea but theydon't know how to get to it.
So where I do believe that I'mbetter is as you get more and
more narrow into something I'mreally good at diving into those
intersections to find it.
So USP really, in my vision, isbuilt on what's called your
(09:34):
narrative.
So now we're moving intopsychology.
So, william, you anyone mightbe watching listening follow me
for a minute.
We're not going to talk aboutmarketing.
We're going to talk aboutourselves, our people, who we
are as a person and what we have, and it's going to come full
circle If you'll stick with mefor just a minute here.
But what we have as people iswe were raised a certain way and
(09:55):
in humans we were raised with amother, a father they were
there or they weren't there agrandmother we had humans around
us to help raise us.
The narrative is what does thatlook like?
Whoever raised you?
What did you get?
What did you not get?
You can learn a lot about thatwith different types of
psychology, but one that I likethe most personally is what's
(10:18):
called the trauma egg, and thetrauma egg is you draw this.
You get a big piece of paper,and I'm not going to go through
all the details, but you get abig piece of paper, you draw an
egg, you start at the bottom andyou don't write words, you only
draw pictures and you thinkthrough things that have
happened in your life with thevery first memory you've ever
had and then, chronologicallythroughout your life, you write
(10:40):
and draw pictures of everythingthat you remember of your life,
every impactful story, good orbad, it doesn't matter.
You write it out.
And when you do that, what Ihave found time and time again
is that you start to find trendsand patterns from your history
to where you are today, and whatI found for mine is I had a
(11:01):
very blessed life.
If anyone's been listening tothis, they heard me.
I got to do some awesome thingssailboats, work with horses,
break and train horses.
Put my hand and arm andshoulder into the rear end of a
cow to preg check.
I mean, it was the grossestthing you've ever could imagine.
But while doing all that crazythat I've done, I did find that
(11:24):
a big thing for me was what'scalled abandonment, because
there were times in my life thatI felt very alone.
There were things that happenedwhere I just felt like I'm gone
.
One of the big parts of thatwas my mom died of a heart
attack in her sleep in 2014.
And even now it gets meemotional, so I can't think
about it too much right now, butit was such a ground shaking
(11:48):
event for me and it just was outof the blue and there was so
much going on and it rocked mehard and that abandonment again,
she did like she wants to behere, you know what I mean, but
she, she's gone and it's likethat abandonment.
What it did for me, as I as Inow bring it back to marketing
(12:10):
is because I have theabandonment issues.
I work extra hard, without evenrealizing it, to make people
happy and give them what theyneed so they never feel
abandoned, they never feel alone.
But that comes from my USP.
So my USP is I've got all thisknowledge, I know what's going
(12:33):
on, I know how it works, I'vebeen there.
I've done that.
Very rarely does something comeacross my table where I'm like,
whoa, that's new, that doesn'thappen.
And I can even talk about ai ina second, if you want, because
everybody has this buzz on ai.
But I'm looking at, I'm going,you know, the, the, the usp of
people understanding theirnarrative through whatever way
(12:54):
that they want to do it andbuilding that on their business.
Businesses are built by humans,they're built by humans, the
algorithms and ar built byhumans and connected and running
based on humans, right.
So when you look at this.
That narrative is really whatmakes you, william, you, anyone,
listening.
(13:14):
That's what makes you unique.
So, whether you work forsomeone or you are the company,
you are the brand.
Whatever it is, we all havethat USP.
It's more about how we takethat USP and use it to draw
people.
In One of my main statementsthat I share a lot in
conferences, it's Zig Ziglarsaid it's not what you say, it's
(13:36):
how you say it.
Yes, but in today's age that'snot true.
Today's age, it's not what yousay, it's not how you say it,
it's what's perceived by youraudience, because too much of
our world is in digitalmarketing.
So the perception you don'talways know where I can say
something to you, william, andthen I go whoa, william, I kind
(13:57):
of missaid that.
The only reason I would saythat is I see the expression on
your face and realize I made youmad.
And then I go wait, I didn'tmean to make you mad, I misspoke
.
It's still that perception.
But on the web, on your website, on your flyer, on your
tactical marketing, where youcan't see their re, their
reaction, that's where your USPhas to really play its part and
(14:20):
your strategic message has gotto be locked in.
Dr. William Attaway (14:24):
Wow, that's so good.
I'm just I'm blown away becauseI'm thinking about my USP.
Like hearing you tell yourstory, I'm thinking about mine
and thinking about how thatdrives so much of what I do.
You know, my dad started atraditional ad agency back in
the 70s.
You know, ran traditional media45 years.
(14:47):
Right, I watched that.
I grew up in that world.
I watched it, I saw it, but hedidn't have somebody to come
alongside of him to help him seewhat he couldn't see, to help
him discover and deal with hisblind spots, and that caused a
whole lot of ripples thattouched all the people around
him because of what he built itwasn't done in a healthy and
(15:10):
sustainable way.
What do I do now?
I come alongside leaders andthe niche I specialize in is
digital marketing world and Ihelp them see what they can't
see so they can make their runat a healthy and sustainable
pace.
That's my USP.
That's what I'm hearing.
I love that man.
Josh Ramsey (15:29):
That's so good you just nailed it and you've seen
it, and I think you couldprobably go even deeper with
that, william, like if I workedwith you and I'm just using this
I'm not, this isn't meant to bea it and you've seen it.
And I think you could probablygo even deeper with that,
william, like 100, if I workedwith you and I'm just using this
I'm not, this isn't meant to bea pitch but to understand more,
because you can do this on yourown, without me.
Anyone out there can do thiswithout me.
I'm not a.
I didn't create it myself.
Someone else created the traumaegg.
(15:49):
I've just put together thepieces.
I put together the algorithm,if you on how I see it working
in my mind.
But back to what we were saying.
I think if you did the traumaegg, I think you would also
start to identify other keycharacteristics and pieces.
That would take your USP, wheremaybe you were here at the
bottom when we started talkingand then you jumped 10 levels.
(16:13):
But I bet if you went down theUSP and you really dove into
your narrative and really triedto identify all the key factors,
I bet you'd jump 30 or 40 more.
And the key is, william, thatwhen you just using you for a
minute.
If you can take yourself fromzero to 10 and then you take
(16:33):
yourself from 10 to 40 andyou're 40% better.
Now the key you have to thinkabout is we go back to what I
said.
It's the perception.
So, william, someone's lookingfor a business coach.
They go to your website.
Right now you've been at zero.
We just had a conversation.
Your mind opened to somethingdifferent.
You're now going to look atyour website and you're going to
(17:01):
take your website from zero to10.
Is it better?
Yes, but you're still competingwith how many people that maybe
already have that?
How many attitudes are youstill stuck in?
If you jump from that 10 tothat 40, it shifts so much more
where now you start to realizeyou get away from the platitude
of a statement and you can showpeople how to explain the deeper
passion of what's going on,right.
(17:23):
So so that's where you end up.
If you build this in a web world.
That's when you have the mazeand the clicks and the and the
funnel traffic of where peoplecan go in the navigation.
You know, for instance, when wetalk about USP, I see this and
it drives me insane.
It is my biggest pet peeve.
I look at websites and the firstthing that I see is their
(17:43):
navigation and I see the wordhome and blogs, along with a
bunch of other crap.
But they're using the wordblogs and I'm going to tell you,
I've asked thousands andthousands of people.
I said hey, everybody, themajority of the time how many of
you have ever gone to a websitelooking for something like a
service or a tool or something?
(18:03):
And then when you're looking atthe service or a tool or
whatever it is on the website acar, whatever and you go up and
you look in the navigation andyou see the word blogs and you
click on it and not one personhas ever been honest and said no
, everyone's like.
No, I don't do it like, butyou're not controlling the user
navigation to tell them whatthey should know.
(18:26):
Because now, when we startgetting deeper in this and
hopefully, william, this isgoing the way of the podcast you
wanted.
Dr. William Attaway (18:32):
That's just great.
No, totally, yeah, totally.
Josh Ramsey (18:35):
But now we get to the next level of you know, I
ask business owners what are thethree main questions people ask
you when they walk through yourdoor?
And I get these answers fromthem.
Then we pause, we talk throughit and then I go okay, now reset
the table.
What are the three questionsthey should be asking you when
they walk through your door?
(18:55):
And it's interesting, when thebusiness owner, they shift their
brain and they go holy crap andimmediately the conversation
and the narrative changes.
Because now we get to thislevel of like okay, my website
sucks and I'm like your websitedoesn't necessarily need to be
rebuilt, it just needs to bereorganized, right.
(19:18):
So you know, my kids they arekids, they like to throw stuff
on the floor and I walk in thereand it's a mess.
It's not that we need to redotheir room, it's that it needs
to be organized differently,right, right.
So that's where you have tokind of think through that
process of now.
What's your user navigation andcontrolling the user navigation
(19:41):
?
Because you're a business coach,there's probably three to five
things that most business ownersare thinking about before they
hire you.
You should already know whatthey are.
You should have on your websiteshould already know what they
are.
You should have on your website.
These are the four things thatpeople want to know and then you
can go.
If this isn't it, go here andsearch the rest of my material.
(20:03):
Then, if you have a crap ton ofblogs, then do a blog right and
do a search bar for the blogs,but start leading them and
showing them.
You're the expert, no matterwhat you do.
You're the expert no matterwhat you do, even if you're a
bath and kitchen guy.
Find a unique way to put it upthere and a unique selling
position of that.
You know people buy stories,man.
(20:24):
That's the life.
Dr. William Attaway (20:27):
And this is why I think you've just
illustrated the biggestdifference that I have ever seen
illustrated of why you hire afractional chief marketing
officer, because what you'redescribing is not tactics.
What you're describing is at ahigher strategic level.
You're looking at the entireboard and saying how is it that
(20:51):
we can win, how is it that yourclients can win, based on where
all the pieces are, includingthe client, the potential
clients?
How are we looking from theirperspective?
That's a gift man.
That's a gift Josh.
I want our listeners to reallykey into this, because if you
are not thinking at this levelwith your business, whatever it
(21:11):
is that you're leading, whetherit's an agency, whether it's
some other type of business ifyou are not thinking at this
level with your business,whatever it is that you're
leading, whether it's an agency,whether it's some other type of
business if you are notthinking at this level, things
are about to change.
You mentioned AI a minute ago.
Things are about to change.
We're about to see asignificant shift in the digital
marketing world and havingsomebody in your corner like
(21:33):
Josh, who is thinking at thatstrategic level, who is helping
you see around the corners, isgoing to become increasingly
important.
Josh, as you talk with peopleand you talk with potential
clients, you talk with yourclients, businesses all over.
What are some of the biggestthings that you see them
struggling with?
(21:53):
That you say, hey, I want youto spin that jewel and catch
that light just a littledifferently, because you're
looking at it one way.
There's a whole different way.
What are some of those things?
Josh Ramsey (22:05):
I don't ever like putting.
I know I appreciate thequestion, I'm going to answer it
, but I like to.
I like to frame it a little bitdifferently, because every
business owner really comes inwith something different,
because their narrative isdifferent.
So where one person is strong,another person is weak.
What brings me the uniquenessfor myself to to the, to the
(22:28):
relationship is I'm able to seethat and I'm good at analyzing
where are you strong, where areyou weak, what team do you have
and what do you need to do?
So I'm able to set up andframework within 30 days where
they're at and where they wantto get to, and that's what I do.
So first 30 days I work withanybody.
(22:50):
It's a starter program is whatI call it.
It's very transparent pricing.
If anyone ever wanted to lookme up, they could find it.
But we spend the first 30 daysreally analyzing what have you
been doing, where do you want togo, how are you trying to get
there, who do you have on theteam All these other questions
and it's always uniqueinformation.
Back, the number one thing thathappens that is consistent is
(23:15):
that I work more with CFOs thanCEOs Interesting, because CEOs
don't get involved until the CFOtells them they have to.
Because the world that happensis that a CEO says all right,
and I'm going to simplify thisAll right, I'm the CEO, I want
money.
Who do I go to if I want money?
(23:36):
I go to my head of sales, or Igo to my CFO, or both CFO,
where's all my money?
Where's it at?
I don't feel like I have anymoney, like what's going on.
Well, you need to sell moreHead of sales.
Sell more Head of sales.
Well, we need more marketing.
(23:56):
Stop spending money.
Sales, right.
So that's what happens.
Dr. William Attaway (24:00):
So when you ask me, what do I?
Josh Ramsey (24:01):
do.
That's what happens in everybusiness, right.
That's good and they all pointat each other.
What happens is I step into apicture that's I'm going to use
the word dysfunctional it's notreally dysfunctional, but if
you're in that and maybe youhave it going, but now you got
to get to that next paradigm,right, and maybe you have it
going, but now you've got to getto that next paradigm, right,
maybe you've worked through thatstruggle.
(24:22):
Maybe someone's hearing me andgoing, yeah, I used to be there,
but I'm not there anymore.
I'm on the next level, great.
Well, if you're on the nextlevel and you're hearing this
podcast with Dr William here,you're trying to figure out that
you don't have that function.
Now you're at that next level,but what happens is what got you
(24:42):
here won't get you there, bingo.
So you still have to figure outthe right people on the bus for
you to be able to get to thatnext level.
And sometimes, like what DrWilliams said here, sometimes
it's a strategist, not amarketing person, right, and I
kind of fall into a lot ofdifferent buckets of you know,
mental health coach to a degree,as well as a psychologist to a
(25:03):
degree.
You know what I mean A CFO to alow level degree, but it's what
I'm good at is is seeing wherethe blind spots are.
We can't see our own blindspots, but we can see others and
when you have that rightstrategist they can help you
guide through that.
But again back to my main point.
The CFO comes to me typicallyfirst because they go the CEO is
(25:26):
asking for money and I can'tproduce it, our marketing is out
of control and we don't knowwhat we're really getting for it
.
So I walk in and set the properKPIs for the entire company
related to marketing andspending and lead gen.
When you have that, it creates avery clear picture of what you
need to do.
And that's where I work is.
(25:46):
Sometimes I'm that 30 day guyand I'm out.
Sometimes I'm a three or fourmonth guy and then I'm out.
It just depends on.
Each scenario is a little bitdifferent, but that's pretty
much the common commonality inevery business out there.
So good man.
Dr. William Attaway (26:02):
I love the generosity that you're
displaying just today in sharingsome of what you've learned so
far and how you're helping otherpeople.
You know you have tocontinually be growing as a
leader.
Your business needs you to leadat a higher level today than it
did five years ago, and fiveyears from now that's only going
to be more true.
Your team, your clients, yourbusiness they're going to
(26:24):
require more of you.
How do you continue to level up?
How do you develop the skillsthat you are going to need to be
able to lead your team, yourbusiness, your clients at that
level?
Josh Ramsey (26:37):
Yeah Well, there's no magic, magic bullet.
The thing that drives me insane, honestly, is that I watch
reels or podcasts or something,and everyone's like I'm gonna
tell you the three thingsthat'll never fail you and I'm
like, and then they'll end.
They'll end with something likeand plug in ai, you know it'll,
it'll be your brain, and I'mlike it won't.
(26:59):
You know, I come on, you knowit.
Just so.
The first thing is is thatanyone out there that hears my
voice is unique.
Every, every single person isunique and they and every one of
us, as humans need to lean intoour uniqueness and and while
it's weird to one person, it'snot to the others you just you
(27:25):
have to be who you are.
There's so much more.
I could just pour into peopleon that topic alone, because
that's where my heart is is like.
I have been that outsider.
I have moved a lot.
I have that narrative ofabandonment.
You know, indifferent.
It's different for me than itwas for someone who grew up in
an orphanage.
(27:45):
So I want to be very clear andcareful of it's just.
This is how I lived.
It's not a comparison, it is me.
So when you asked me this greatquestion of how do I grow.
I want people to realize thisis just me.
It's not necessarily what youshould do, but what I have found
is, if you can find, I love thestatement and I wish I could
(28:05):
find this author.
But back when I was a little kidI heard my dad listening to
books on tape and this man onetime said it drove me crazy, all
these books on tape, but thisone thing stuck with me and it
was huge on tape.
But this one thing stuck withme and it was huge, he said.
He said if you walk into a roomof a hundred people, it asked
each one of them to open andclose their eyes and ask them
(28:27):
what do they see when they walkinto the room?
And he said you're probablygoing to get about a hundred
different answers.
He said the key is why doesevery one of those hundred
people look at the roomdifferently?
He said they all have adifferent narrative, a different
way to see the world.
And if we only use 30% of ourbrain, according to science, why
(28:47):
could we not bump that 30 to 40to 50?
If we can see the world the wayothers see it?
So when I look at things, and Igo all right, I hear Dr Williams
say something and I really likethat.
I'm going to take that andapply it to my life.
And then I hear this over hereand I take it and I apply it to
my life, so my knowledge reallybecomes everything that I do.
(29:09):
I use a platform that I havereally enjoyed.
It's not what I would say isthe best of the best, but I like
them.
So here's a shameless plug forthe company Masterclass.
It's been really good, becausewhat I'm paying for in getting
out of it is I'm listening todifferent CEOs, authors, experts
(29:31):
, people that have functioned ata high level in their field,
and even a storyteller gave mesome interesting insights.
To stop every day at the end ofthe day and journal something
interesting that happened thatday.
And just by trying to do thatfor even a few minutes and I'm
terrible at it, but even when Ido it, I do find a huge
(29:54):
transition in my brain to thenext level.
And again, I think some peopleneed to work harder and I think
some people need to work lesshard, and for me, I feel like I
need to work less hard Again.
I don't want to go too deep onthis, but it is one of the
things that I teach, but in mynarrative it was always go, go,
go.
I was the go-getter, I'll getit done, just give it to me.
(30:15):
Let me go Now, me, let me goNow.
I'm having to learn a new levelin my world and my growth and
what's going to be next for me,to where I need to stop.
I need to rest, I need to relaxand take a breath, because
every time in my business that Ihave stopped, I've handed
things off and trusted someoneelse to do it for me and
(30:37):
trusting with confidence andgiving him the support I have 10
X where I was to where I am nowWow.
Dr. William Attaway (30:47):
There is no such thing as a wasted
experience, and everything youhave described that has made you
into the leader, the businessowner, the fractional CMO that
you are.
Every bit of that has hascontributed to your story.
That is true for every one ofour listeners too.
I love the trauma egg.
I think that's a phenomenalexercise to walk through.
(31:09):
As you are learning, as you aretaking in all these things, you
know whether it's masterclasslike.
Is there a book in particularthat has made a big difference
in your journey that you'drecommend?
Josh Ramsey (31:22):
I think that there's.
There's principles and lawsthat have made it, and I think
that there's only a few handfulof people that have written them
.
I think, uh, steve Covey is isprobably one of the main ones,
you know social proof and youknow, seek first to understand
before being understood.
That's a big exactly.
Yes, so I would say that.
(31:43):
And then on the business side.
So I think that, like Covey ismore of the marketing, in my, in
my learning style, is he's moreof the marketing.
How do you communicate, how doyou build social proof?
You know, how do you consultwith somebody?
And then, um and I'm goingblank on the name, but you'll
(32:03):
know- it the 21.
Irrefutable Laws of Leadership.
John Maxwell yeah, and Maxwellhas written a lot of good stuff,
but that's probably one of myother favorite ones that
probably about once a year, onceevery other year, I will go
back through that book and theworkbook and try to process that
again, just to kind of see whatdid I think a couple of years
ago and what do I think now.
So I have the same old workbookthat I'm in, so then I can be
(32:25):
like oh wow, I used to thinkthat way, but now I'm here and
when you see that maturation foryourself, you know what I mean.
It's yes.
Dr. William Attaway (32:32):
So well, growth happens on the other side
of change.
Everybody wants to grow, but ittakes change to get there.
And's that maturation, thattransformation process, yeah,
and having the ability to seethat in your scribbles, in your
notes over time, that'sinvaluable because it increases
your self-awareness.
Josh Ramsey (32:51):
yeah, the other one that I will say is jose uh
silva.
Um, if anyone's ever seen this,I do not subscribe to it.
I'm not telling people tosubscribe, subscribe to it.
But Jose Silva came out withmind modes and, uh, this was
quite interesting because if youstart thinking about the
(33:11):
different levels of your brainand how it operates, you have
alpha mode, beta mode, thetamode, delta mode.
You have all these differentmodes in your mind of how it
operates in between, like yoursleep, your deep sleep, your REM
sleep, your high functioning,high awake, and his theory was I
can teach anyone to transitiontheir mind to these mind modes
(33:32):
quickly and interesting.
And that was his, his theoryand I I believe that it did work
.
I have read things that it didwork, uh, but he did it with his
kids was where he started andhe taught them to be a high
level thinkers and be able tomove their brain into a higher
source.
And if you think about it, aprofessional athlete has to
(33:55):
operate at an alpha mode in thehighest form, right, right,
while most of us live in thebeta.
I take that and again, I've gota million stories that I that I
love and I'm always hungry formore, starving for great stories
all the time, but one of them.
I was listening to talk radioand they were talking just
(34:16):
randomly, a little snippetinterview with a guy that worked
for the Dallas Mavericks and hewas in charge of the
announcements, the uh music, theentertainment while the game
was going on, and so likewhenever you like for the Dallas
Mavericks, the NBA team, youhave let's go Mavs, and then you
(34:37):
know, you have, like, you know,defense, defense, right, these
chants.
He was talking about the ebband flow of your brain and how
your brain has to know when torelax versus when to amp up and
it has to be at the right timeof the game.
Last five minutes, first twominutes, the most impactful,
(34:57):
last 30 to 60 seconds of eachquarter.
These are like impactful timeswhere he's like there are also
low times, where it's like afterthe first, like I don't
remember what he said, but thefirst six minutes of the first
quarter, he's like that's thelowest time, cause people are
still finding their seat,they're getting comfortable,
they're talking with theirfriends.
The game has a long way to go,but like the middle part of that
(35:20):
first quarter is just the mostdead time of the audience.
So he said I don't try to ampit, but I try to just get them
involved enough so that wecreate an emotional attachment
to them.
So I find that fascinating,because when you take that and
you think about someone speakingat a conference, what is the
majority of the time that youlose them?
(35:40):
You take that and you look atyour ads, when is the majority
of the time you lose them?
So I'll just tell you on socialmedia and then I'll stop again.
William, sorry, I actuallydon't know these games.
No, this is great, keep going.
But when you think about theengagement of reels, most people
don't realize this.
But it's a three-step process.
(36:01):
It's disrupt, engage and thenoffer.
Those are the three simplifiedways that social media reels
need to work.
No reel ultimately should bemore than 15 seconds, should
never.
And it's structured veryclearly.
First three seconds is yourdisrupt.
It is make them stop.
(36:22):
Don't let them keep scrolling.
Make them look at you and dosomething that they're like what
?
The next nine seconds is theengagement of education.
The engagement of nine secondsis let me dive in a little bit
deeper, let me get you goinginto this more, putting them
into the setting them up for thelast three seconds of hook them
(36:45):
, get them to take the next stepfollow, like, comment, go to my
website, sign up for this,whatever it is.
That's what you want them to doin that next three seconds.
And then, internally, we set ourKPIs based on whatever call to
action was, if it was a like, ifit was a follow, if it was a
view you know what I mean.
(37:05):
How many seconds was the view?
Those become our KPIs that weset.
And that kind of goes back towhat you asked me earlier.
Well, you walk into a company.
What do you set?
Well, if we're not runningsocial media, we're going to
have a different set of KPIsthan we will.
You know what I mean if we'redoing print or billboards.
So that's where you know what Imean.
Some of that comes in.
So, again, I took you a hugetornado.
Dr. William Attaway (37:29):
That's so good, though.
That was incredibly helpful.
My goodness, it's so good, josh.
All right, last question, andthen we got to tie a bow on it.
So you are operating at in avery high level, not just in
your agency, but in everythingelse that you're doing.
If I had the ability to snap myfingers and solve one problem
(37:54):
for you right now as a businessowner, what would you love for
that problem to be?
Josh Ramsey (38:01):
as a business owner , what would you love for that
problem to be?
You know it's really for Ithink a lot of business owners
run into this and you and Ispoke briefly about it as well
it's being able to elevateyourself, knowing your blind
spots, knowing you have a blindspot, being aware that you have
a blind spot but you don't knowwhat it is.
So it's finding someone thatcan see that blind spot for you
and clearly communicate thatblind spot to me, but also
(38:25):
others.
You know, building that teambut building me to where I can
step out and hand off to someoneelse, because if I can hand off
to someone else, that allows meto free myself up to move on to
other places.
Now I know you're asking aboutme.
Maybe that helps somebody, butI think it's going to be
different for everybody, right?
But I do believe that theconsistency there will be.
(38:49):
Do you have someone in your lifethat can speak to your blind
spot?
And I do.
I have those people, but Idon't have right now and I'm
looking for is that I think weall need to have and be open
about it.
We need to have that coach.
You know, pastors at churchesthey have that coach big CEOs.
(39:10):
They have that coach, they havesomebody, and even if they're
just a shoulder to cry onbecause they can't cry to their
people that they work with ortheir coworkers or, you know,
their bosses they need someoneelse.
That counseling, that's a partof mental health.
That's always been there.
It's just now it's more youknow out there that people are
more willing to talk about it,but it's always been there.
(39:31):
It's always been good.
It's just what does the formand shape look like to identify
your blind spot?
Cause your blind spot can be alot of different things.
Right, it can be hurts, habits,hangups, and it also can be hey
, you have a blind spot thatyou're actually better than you
think, and if you don't have agood leader, then that leader
doesn't know how to tell youthat you are better than you
(39:53):
think.
Therefore, you should maybe beleapfrogging that leader and
that becomes something again, atotally different direction, but
something else to consider.
Dr. William Attaway (40:03):
That's so true.
This is why I've had coachesfor decades in different areas,
because they help me see what Ican't see.
I think this is so criticallyimportant.
If you don't identify yourblind spots, you will never
overcome them because you can't.
So, so, so, so helpful, josh.
We could keep going and I knowwe could do another hour or even
(40:23):
two.
There's so much insight andwisdom you have dropped today in
such a short time.
I know people listening aregoing to want to connect with
you and stay connected and learnmore from you and about what
you're doing.
What is the best way for themto do that?
Josh Ramsey (40:39):
I would say you could probably go to my website.
You can Google me.
We're working on my socialmedia right now.
I've been so busy in so manyother things it's kind of what
we've been talking about.
I've been so busy with justrunning the day to day that I
haven't really focused on my ownsocial media.
So we're building that up.
So, depending on the day thatsomeone hears this episode, it
may change.
But you can Google me by justtyping in Josh Ramsey Marketing
(41:03):
or you can go direct to my site,jrcmocom.
It stands for Josh Ramsey,Chief Marketing Officer, and I'm
pretty easy to find online andI always like to make a joke.
Most people know who.
Dave Ramsey the financial guruis right, that's right.
So my dad is Dave Ramsey, thefinancial guru is right, so my
dad is Dave Ramsey.
He's not that Dave.
(41:25):
Ramsey but my dad is.
Dave Ramsey my dad is DaveRamsey and he's the older Dave
Ramsey, so does that make?
him more wise.
I don't know, one day I'mprobably gonna get a call from
Dave Ramsey.
I'll be like nope, really, Ihave them on my phone.
My dad is Dave Ramsey, so I'mclear on it.
Okay, no infringement.
But but you know what I mean.
(41:46):
Here's the deal.
Right Like that, that tiessomething in your brain into a
podcast.
Now you, you get off thepodcast, you go, get in your car
, you go here, you go there andyou're like who was that person?
Dave Ramsey, Josh Ramsey,Ramsey Marketing, Josh Ramsey.
Then they're like boom, itconnects and it ties it through.
That's part of branding.
So I use it as branding andpeople remember me and they come
(42:09):
back and find me Josh RamseyMarketing, and I'm everywhere on
Google.
Dr. William Attaway (42:13):
It's so good, josh, we will have all
those links in the show notes.
Thank you so much for yourgenerosity and your time today.
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