Not Just Another Album, It’s A Money Revolution! | Alan & Katie Donegan | 129 - Catching Up to FI

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
about a month later or two months later,he messaged and said, would you like me
to write you a song for what you're doing?
And, like, that's not aneasy question to say no to.
so we He says no to that!
He says no.
Do you want me to write you a song?
No.
So we said yes.
We worked on the lyrics together.
We had great fun.

(00:22):
He wrote a song.
We listened to it.
We loved it.
And somewhere in the conversation,we came up with create an
entire F. I. music album.
Let's, let's talk about music,because people blog, podcast,
they do YouTube channels.

(00:42):
No one's ever created a music albumto share the messages that have made
such a difference in all of our lives.
So, that's what we set out to do.
She spotted me coming out of thebathroom in the middle of the, like.
Countryside in New Zealand.
So it's quite an incredible tour.
And I think I'm so inspiredabout is people sharing the

(01:06):
message of good finances.
So it's slowly spreading like it startedin America, the financial independence
movement, and it's slowly gaining menmomentum around the world because.
As you know, good finances aregood finances, whether you do it in
America, New Zealand, Australia, orLithuania, it doesn't make a difference.

(01:26):
Like good financial skillsare the same the world over.
And I think that's why fire for dummiesand your podcast famous around the world.
I made a big mistake of thinkingall my problems would be solved
and I'd wake up blissfully happythe day that we hit our number.
And it doesn't work like that.
And I want to save.

(01:48):
people the pain that I had ofwaking up the next morning and
being like, oh, I'm still me.
I still have the same weird things of waysof thinking and behaving and acting and
things that I didn't like about myself.
It's not like suddenly I became blissfullyhappy and the purpose of this song is to

(02:08):
tell, or to encourage people, please workon your happiness, please work on your
health, whilst you're in this so calledboring middle that, it's not the boring
middle, it's the best part, it's the timewhere you get to be ready for that freedom

(02:53):
Hello and welcome backto Catching Up to FI.
Today is an awesome epic specialepisode because it's unique.
It's never been done before maybebecause we're gonna rock out today.
We have the Excellent.
Extraordinary.
Alan and Katie Donnelly in with us, andthey've done something special that we

(03:15):
want to get out there on the airwaves.
I used to be a DJ, Jackie, and I feellike my talents are coming to play today.
We're also inviting Diana Falk, oursocial media maven extraordinaire,
to join us because this is a concert,and we might as well rock out.
Jackie, are you excited for this?
I am excited, Ville, and I knowyou used to be a DJ, so I'm

(03:38):
like, prove your skills to me.
So we are gonna have fun.
We've got two of our favoritepeople because they got some
action packed stuff going on.
So this is gonna be anunusual but very fun episode.
they're, publishing this year analbum, which I don't think has ever
been done before in the FI space.
So this is avant garde and will be thememusic for Economy, the Economy Conference.

(04:02):
And we're all going to dancea jingle to this and rock out.
There's heavy metal, there'scountry, there's pop.
it's all over the place.
And we got to hear about how they did it.
Diana, you're also with us here today.
How does it feel to be at aCatching Up to FI concert?
I am very thrilled.
I'm very, very thrilled.
This is an exciting time.
Thank you.
Okay.
Well, we're glad you could join us today.

(04:24):
We know who Alan and Katie Donegan are,but our audience, you know, and there
was an episode we did with them already,Jackie, but our audience may not know.
So why don't you introduce thembefore we get going with that music?
Yeah.
Well, like you said, we're havinga party and our guests of honor
are Katie and Allen Donegan.
They dreamed of quitting their jobs andliving on the beach in Mexico, eating

(04:44):
tacos after many failed attempts towin the lottery or get adopted by rich
parents, which I always wish for that too.
Pounds.
was coming to save them.
And so they set out to learn.
Everything they could about money.
They figured out the simple steps to takecontrol of their finances and retired at

(05:06):
35 and 40 with a 1 million euro portfolio.
Did I say that right guys?
It's euros.
It's pounds, but you
Okay.
I did.
That's what I wanted to ask.
Okay.
So 1 million pounds, they're from the UK.
So you see how much I know about currency.
So anyway, they launched rebel financeschool to share what they have learned

(05:28):
and so far have helped over 25.
thousand people and 40 different countriesand you know, it was all for free.
You cannot find better than that.
So the Donegan's mission is to helpyou create an extraordinary life.
Whatever that means to you.
They aim to do this by helping youget your finances in order, start

(05:50):
businesses debt free, find your own.
Extraordinary.
So they have been featured in The Times,BBC, Forbes, The Sun , and were awarded
British Empire medals by the Kingfor services to financial education.
Wow.
They have written a new book titledThe Rebel's Guide to Financial Freedom.

(06:13):
Simple missions to take youfrom zero To money superhero, no
superpowers or spandex required.
This is them, you guys.
And they have a new called revolutionariesalbum boy, they know how to do it big.
So Alan and Katie, welcomeback to catching up to fly.

(06:37):
We are so excited to be here.
Thank you, Jackie.
Thank you, Bill.
Thank you, Diana.
It's just a pleasure to be with you,and we're so excited to share something
new and exclusive with the audience thatthey won't have heard anywhere else.
I
So this is a little different.
This is a party.
Where are we partying from today?
I'm in Knoxville, Tennessee.
Jackie, where are you?

(06:58):
I'm in Dayton, Ohio.
It's not so exciting excepthanging out with you guys.
And Diana, where are you today?
And I'm just outside ofPhoenix, Arizona in Goodyear.
All right, and these guys havebeen, they have circumnavigated
the world since I last saw them.
They have literallygone all the way around.
They did a pie tour in New Zealand,and we should hear about that.

(07:20):
They were in Africa on a safari.
They were in Disney World.
And Katie.
I think it's yourbirthday today, is it not?
41 years old today.
Congratulations, that's part of the party.
We're celebrating Katie's birthday.
You don't look a day over 30, Katie.
You got to go to theYouTube channel to see that.

(07:41):
You're too kind.
I'll just flick my hair toshow, you know, my youth
All true,
are you guys in the world today?
We're in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico.
Living on a beach, eating tacos.
Literally, I've seen your
you go.
and the view out of yourAirbnb is spectacular.
We're very lucky, it's stunning.

(08:01):
We can watch the sunset every night,and the colours that light up the sky
are absolutely stunningly beautiful.
There's pinks and orangesand reds, it's amazing.
And it's whale season, so there'swhales leaping in the bay outside the
my goodness.
You guys are making me so jealous.
And I think I'm the only poorsap that's sitting here in cold,
single digit weather in Ohio.

(08:22):
Well, the temperature,
the the temperature here inKnoxville today is 70 degrees.
So
Oh, rub it in, Bill.
Jackie, do you stillhave snow on the ground?
Finally that melted, but we'regetting more literally today.
It'll be rain, snow, becausenow we're kind of teetering
on, you know, 20s and 30s.
So not that much fun, but I'd much ratherbe where the Donegans are right now.

(08:44):
Yeah.
have a spare room.
You're welcome,
Oh,
mind
all right, guys.
If I pop up, I don't wantyou guys to say, who are you?
And Diana, you're in Phoenix.
What's the temperature out there?
The high today is 79.
Oh my
perfect, perfect.
Why would you leave that?
Sunny and 79.
And I'm sure the ocean breezeis just spectacular there.

(09:05):
And is it Puerto Vallarta,Mexico that you're in?
70s and 80s here.
Ooh, you translated my book.
I did,
I had to work it out.
25.
Okay.
Well, guys, you made an album.
We're here to celebrate your album.
Take us back to the Genesis, to thevery beginning, when this was a twinkle

(09:30):
in your eye, or how did it come about?
Katie and I ran this event calledChautauqua and we were running it last
time in Columbia and this guy calledFinn turned up on the event and Finn was
a British person who lived in Canada.
He wanted to quit his job.
He was checking his numbers andI don't know if you know this

(09:52):
about me, but occasionally I pushpeople to do things because I
think it's in their best interest.
Occasionally?
Katie said on the last, Katiesaid on the last show, don't tell
Alan you want to do something,because he will get you to do it.
Imagine being married to this person.
So Finn said, I want to do music.
And I was talking to him and he wantedto go to Ibiza, which is the home of

(10:14):
some of the music he loves in Europe.
So I was pressing him to quit his job.
He quit his job.
He was learning music.
And then about a month later ortwo months later, he messaged and
said, would you like me to writeyou a song for what you're doing?
And, like, that's not aneasy question to say no to.

(10:35):
so we He says no to that!
He says no.
Do you want me to write you a song?
No.
So we said yes.
We worked on the lyrics together.
We had great fun.
He wrote a song.
We listened to it.
We loved it.
And somewhere in the conversation,we came up with create an
entire F. I. music album.
Let's, let's talk about music,because people blog, podcast,

(11:01):
they do YouTube channels.
No one's ever created a music albumto share the messages that have made
such a difference in all of our lives.
So, that's what we set out to do.
Yeah, and our band is calledRevolutionaries and the album we've
made is called Money Revolution.
So we're so excited to share it.
It's got a bunch of different genres.

(11:21):
It's not just one genre.
We've got barbershop quartet, we'vegot pop, we've got rock, we've got R&
B and rap and Yeah, it's really coolto share through all these different,
not just through music, but throughall different genres of music as
Were you guys singing anyof the background vocals?
No, not this time.

(11:44):
Are you guys singers at all?
Cause the vocalists were amazing.
Well, Alan sang at our wedding.
I did.
I'm definitely not a singer.
I was a professional speaker, soI'm like, I do speeches every day.
So for our wedding I oughtto do something different.
So I took singinglessons for three months.
I changed the words to one of my favouritesongs and sung it at our wedding.

(12:09):
And yeah, I've never sung again since.
Never
sung since.
Did Katie know this was coming or wasthis a surprise you launched on her?
It was a complete surprise.
It was a complete surprise.
Yeah, I was not expecting it.
It was that type of thingwhere all the instrumentalists
appeared from around the room.
was the film that you got inspired by?

(12:30):
Love Actually.
So there's a scene in Love Actuallywhere all the musicians just
appear and I wanted to do that.
The guy with the drum kit, like,walked in from the back, the guitarist
came from each side, and all of asudden there was a live song, and no
one, one knew it was going to happen.
That is so cool.
That's like a flash mob.
I've seen that on

(12:51):
Yeah.
the web.
That's like your own builtin flash mob for a wedding.
I mean, it must have broughttears to your eyes, Katie.
Yeah, it was beautiful.
It was so unexpected and very touching.
Yes, but we're not singing on this album.
No, there's no Alan Boker.
We've got the professionalsto do the singing.
Well, that's great.
You know, I was a DJ back in theday, back in the old days when, you

(13:15):
had to queue up an album, you hadto, it was like spinning records.
It was vinyl.
We had a library of albums andyou had to fade in and fade out
and it was all done by hand.
And I had the 10 o'clock show at myhigh school and it was so much fun.
I never thought 30 Well, howevermany years later, no, yeah, 30 to

(13:37):
35 years later, I'd be podcasting,which is the modern day version of DJ.
Oh, I was about to say 82 years ago, butno, Bill is definitely dating himself.
But you know, back in the day youhad some people, you know, now my
daughter, she loves the idea of vinyls.
Like when she got a record player, shewas like, mom, it's this round thing.

(13:58):
And you put these.
Black plastic.
I'm like, yeah, it's called an
Well, are you going to actually,going to cut some vinyl or CDs or is
it all going to be digital online?
we are thinking of doinga vinyl at some point.
Yeah,
we might well do a vinyl.
We'll do a Kickstarter.
Get a decent design, create a vinyl.
Yeah.
We want to launch the album first.

(14:19):
We're so excited to get itout there into the world.
Well, you're launching it, actually,at our favorite conference, Economy,
where we're going to see you again,and that is such a nice thing to do.
It's going to, I don't, the audiencedoesn't know what's going to hit them.
It's going to rock the casbahof 500 people going, you know,
I can't believe they did this.

(14:40):
What a cool idea.
yeah.
So you guys, let me,let me take a step back.
So this past summer you had an amazingsession of your rebel finance school.
So many people took that.
So how's that going?
And where's that, at today?
Like, are you going todo it again for 2025?

(15:01):
Yay.
Yes.
we are going to do it for 2025.
So normally what we do is run it oncea year and then we leave it up for a
few months afterwards on our YouTubeso that people can catch up if they
find it we've done the live version.
And we're really excited to buildfor RFS, Rebel Finance School 2025.
It's the buzz of doing it live.

(15:22):
Having all the live.
questions, people
Yes.
we would be honored, like I've surprisedthis on you, but we want you to come
back and do the week one special
Yes.
Whoa!
Yay, thank you.
about catching up.
You rocked last year.
People loved your session.
So,
Great.
yeah,
as you know, it's such an important.

(15:42):
that people, the number of messagesthat we get of, is there any
point in me doing the course?
I'm older.
Is there any time forme to make any progress?
And we get people of varying ages.
There's people in their early forties andeven their thirties that are saying that.
And we're like.
Yes, there is so much time, and there'stime regardless, as you know, of how
old you are when you come to this.

(16:03):
And that was such a reassuring voice thatyou had for our audience to tell them.
so we really valued you beingthere and we'd love to have you
Well, we're trying to reach outside ofthe bubble and you guys reached the world
bubble all over the place and we saw abig boost in our international audience
after doing that, which was really cool.

(16:23):
Just recently, we had somebody fromEstonia join our community And catching
up to FI, and it's just like, she'sthe only Estonian in the community.
And I'm so proud that, she joined usand we have people from many different
countries, but predominantly the US,the UK, New Zealand and Australia.
And your audience is largely.

(16:43):
based in the UK,Australia and New Zealand.
Tell us about that pie tour.
What exactly is a pie tour?
And, you know, you went all overNew Zealand and people came out
of the woodwork to meet you.
Not only did they come out ofthe woodwork to meet us, they
had us stay at their homes.
Us internet strangers that justsaid, come and stay with us.

(17:06):
And we were like, okay.
So the reason it was called a PIE tourwe had Ruth the Happy Saver, who's
like New Zealand's top FI blogger,podcaster on the Rebel Finance School.
And we were talking about theiraccounts and PIE stands for
Portfolio Investment Entity.
And it's an actual type ofaccount like a 401k and a Roth.

(17:30):
And we were just laughing becausewe desperately wanted PAI accounts.
Like, I just want to have anaccount that I hold pies in.
So we're like, let's do a great pie tourabout portfolio investment entities.
So we traveled around New Zealand.
We did meetups, we did 10 meetupsin 30 days and people came to
hang out in different cities.

(17:50):
Christchurch, 50 people turnedup to come and hang out with us.
it it's really random, like.
No one really knows us, but wewere spotted in supermarkets.
We were cycling in the middleof New Zealand and went to the
bathroom, came out of the bathroom.
And there was this voicegoing, Mr. Donegan.

(18:13):
It was like, what did I do?
I washed my hands.
What are you talking about?
And
I just have this vision of thetwo of you meeting in the urinals
and you look at each other and go.
would be hilarious.
Cause it was a woman as well.
Yeah.
Yeah.
She spotted me coming out of thebathroom in the middle of the, like.

(18:33):
Countryside in New Zealand.
So it's quite an incredible tour.
And I think I'm so inspiredabout is people sharing the
message of good finances.
So it's slowly spreading like it startedin America, the financial independence
movement, and it's slowly gaining menmomentum around the world because.
As you know, good finances aregood finances, whether you do it in

(18:57):
America, New Zealand, Australia, orLithuania, it doesn't make a difference.
Like good financial skillsare the same the world over.
And I think that's why fire for dummiesand your podcast famous around the world.
Well, so cool.
And your songs are all aboutdifferent aspects of the FI world

(19:19):
and we're going to play them.
We're going to play them today andwe're going to talk about them.
Can you introduce the firstsong for us, the 4 percent rule?
Absolutely.
As you know, the 4 percent ruleis a pillar the FI community.
Also, a very hotly top debated subject.
And so many people are scaredof running out of money.

(19:41):
What if I run out of money?
Is 4 percent too conservative?
Is it too aggressive?
There's so many discussions.
So we wrote an entire song about whetheryou will survive on the 4 percent rule.
Wow.
You know, we talk about the range ofpercent rules, you know, people talk
about the fire community being threepercent, three and a quarter percent.

(20:04):
Frank Vasquez talks aboutthe five to six percent rule.
And the four percent rule was BillBengen's invention back in the 1990s.
And we had him on the show.
You guys should probably have himon a show or we should have him back
on the show and play this for him.
Or we need to send him a copy of the 45.
Because and then we have to come up within the future, the 5 percent rule show

(20:28):
song for Frank Vasquez and Bill Banging.
Cause he's coming out with a new bookand he's going to come back on the show.
It's book releases, I thinkAugust 5th this year, and it's
supercharging your retirement.
And he comes up with a differentportfolio construction that helps
people say they have to saveless because they can spend more.

(20:49):
Isn't that interesting?
And that's the perfect segue into, alate starter, supercharged portfolio.
How you construct it can helpyou get to retirement sooner.

(22:13):
All right, Diana, we're going to playjust for you, the 4 percent rule.
Are you guys ready to dance?
Yes,
right.
Let's see.
Let's see if this work.
We're using some new tech here.
I got a mixer and thisis a happening thing.
All right.
Take it away.
The 4 percent rule.

(22:42):
But the doubt's not creepin late at night.
Can I really trust thenumbers, or is it a lie?
The future's lookinhazy, can I make it last?
What if the marketcrashes, takin all my cash?
They say 30 years, butwill it be too fast?
I've come between thedream and the past, yeah.
Live at 4%, it'll take me all the way.

(23:07):
4%, just a little each day.
4%, it'll take me all the way.
4%, my dreams are here to stay.
Live at 4%, it'll take me all the way.

(23:29):
All right, my dreams are hereto stay, and the theme of this,
Diana, is trust the math, right?
Do you trust the math?
I do.
All right.
sir. I do.
So it works.
Yeah, that's a short answer.
We need to work on ouranswers for the podcast.
It has to be more than two words.

(23:50):
Kind of,
I would have said the same thing.
Yeah, I trust the math.
I mean,
Well, it's hard to it's reallyhard to and believe in it because
you're you guys are living it.
Do you live on the 4 percentrule, Alan and Katie?
kind of not.
That was always our aim.
Our target was a one million poundportfolio, which gives you 40 grand a

(24:13):
year to live off at the 4 percent rule.
We hit that in 2019.
And I never expected this,but I built a business.
now exists without me and I still earnsome money from that business But that
doesn't pay for all of our expenses.
So we kind of live partly off ourportfolio and partly off the business

(24:35):
i've built and Yeah, we like that wasalways our aim We've actually been shocked
and I'm sure you probably know this, butin the period since 2019, our portfolio
has over doubled, it's gone up to 2.
3 million.
is just insane.

(24:58):
And then you go, well, like the 4percent rule is just too conservative.
So what are all these crazy people outthere who are so fearful of quitting
their job because they need to save more.
It's just not been our experience.
Well, that's based on a 60 40 portfoliowith intermediate treasuries and the S& P
500 S& P 560, and it's very conservativebecause people fear running out of money,

(25:22):
and that is the portfolio that Bill Bingencame up with in the 90s that made sure
They were confident they would never runout of money and it was a 30 year runway.
So it was the perfect portfolio forsomebody that was retiring in their 60s
and planned on living into their 90s.
But today it's a totally different storybecause we can construct things that
he couldn't construct back then, right?

(25:45):
Yeah.
They didn't even exist.
The portfolios, the type ofindex funds that ETFs and.
We didn't want to be in bonds.
Like if you see the reaction or therelationship between bonds and stocks
and shares, the more bonds you introduce,the lower your growth over the long term.

(26:05):
So we retired at 40, 35Casey beat me by five years.
She always does.
but we didn't want to go into a lotof bonds when we're young, cause
we still wanted to see it grow.
So I think.
be really interested.
I think Bill would probably thinkwe're a bit crazy, but we're a
hundred percent stocks and shares.
Yeah, you know, I get this all the time

(26:28):
I know.
Look, he's talking about me.
Look, he loves to out me, butI'm in the same boat as you guys.
I've been retired for going on six years.
And Bill, when you ask the questionof Diana, do you believe in
the math of the 4 percent rule?
My answer is kind of a shortanswer to yes, I do believe in it.
And because you got tohave a starting point.
You got to have an anchor point.
Okay.

(26:48):
So that's always beensort of my starting point.
And then I introduced allthese other things, right?
Do I have income some from somewhere else?
Do I have any kind ofpassive income coming in?
Am I considering social security,but I'm with the Donagans.
I'm not a hundred percent stocks,but definitely my portfolio is not.
60 percent stocks, 40 percentbonds or equivalent that the

(27:11):
4 percent rule was based on.
And my portfolio as well has prettymuch doubled since I retired in 2019.
well, there you go.
Are you 80, 90 percent stocks?
Where do you sit with your risk tolerance?
You're talking to the Donegans.
I'm talking to you, Jackie.
I want to know.
Hehehehehehehehehehe

(27:34):
say a hundred percent stock?
I don't have.
are a hundred percent.
We have rest when Alan saying we're98%, the rest is just cash that
we're going to spend on Lego and
jigsaws and
tacos.
So, so kind of similar to me,cause I really don't do bonds.
So I have other types of fixed incomethat I have to pull off of to live on.
Right.
We need to keep thatsomehow somewhat liquid.

(27:56):
So for me, I think it's about 80 to 90%.
In stocks, but always have two to threeyears worth of living expenses in some
type of liquid cash or cash equivalent.
It doesn't necessarily have to bebonds, but I have to have some type
of, fixed income so that I can takemoney as I need it to pay my bills.

(28:17):
Yeah, and I'm 75 to 80%.
That's where I said, which Ithink is still a growth portfolio.
And I do have bonds.
I believe in bonds as a counterbalanceto because I'm not going to tolerate at
my age 59 on the precipice of retiring.
You know, a 30, 40 percent drop.
And I need a little bitmore runway to stomach that.

(28:39):
I came from a scarcity mindset and myrisk tolerance isn't what you guys are.
Diana, we got to out you a little bittoo, if you're willing to be comfortable.
Are you a hundred percent stocksat your stage of the game?
I'm the same as the Donegansand 10 percent in cash.
So,
Yeah.
All
These
are, these are not,
bill.
are not recommendations by any means.
Everybody's.

(28:59):
please.
No recommendations.
These, this is just our experience,
risk tolerance is different.
And then the other thing that'sdifferent for you guys, because you're
an international crowd is what youinvest in, you know, us centers,
investors tend to be biased to the U Sit's the biggest economy in the world.
I imagined Jackie's growth girl,VUG is her go to and then Diana, I

(29:23):
think she's F S K A X or somethinglike that and fidelity is where she
does her total market portfolio.
Tell us a little bit about, forour international audience in the
UK especially, what do you guysdo and why do you do it that way?
We have a global fund, sonot just the US, but all the.
Markets around the world or theones that you can invest in easily.

(29:46):
And our philosophy for that is tojust bet on the global economy.
So if one country is doing well, then thatwill start to make up more of the index.
If one country starts to not do as well.
We don't really care becausesomeone else is coming up.
We're not choosing any countries.
And I think the bit that'sreally interesting is this
comment of home country bias.

(30:08):
It's not just the U S countryhas home country bias.
British people invest in theUK, even though it's been a. Dog
of a market for like 20 years.
They don't do it intentionally.
There'll be in pension funds andthings that will automatically
overweight towards the UK.
And we've seen this inmany other countries.

(30:28):
Every country
would go to the great pie tour.
You look at theirs, their 20, 25 percentNew Zealand, if not 50 percent New Zealand
invested, we were looking at some oftheir portfolios and like one of their
top holdings is Auckland And then I'mlooking at them going, You've got 12 of
your money invested in Auckland Airport.

(30:50):
What are you playing at?
And New Zealand is such asmall economy, they only have 5
million people in their country.
So if you look at globally They representless than 1 percent of the global economy
and we're like, well, why not just mirrorthe world and they're way overweighted.
We see it in Australia,we've seen it in New
Zealand, UK.
Every country.
And our economy, the UK economy, shouldserve as a warning to pretty much anyone.

(31:14):
In 2008, We made up about I thinkit was eight percent nine percent
of the global fund And that'snow down to less than four 3.
5 or something like that as the uk hasshrunk after brexit With everything that's
going on and if you buy a global fundIt just rebalances So if you think of

(31:35):
your US fund, you've invested in all theindustries and all the companies and that
just rebalances as they shrink and grow.
It's exactly the same on a global nature.
So we just don't think youshould bet on one country.
We think, why not beton all the countries?
you are going to bet on onecountry, you can kind of get away
with it in the States, because

(31:56):
right?
for 70, 60, 70 percent of the globaleconomy anyway, in terms of how
much is within that global fund.
And of course, your companiesare so international as well
Right.
dominant that, it's the one country thatwe kind of, we'll give you a pass on.
Yeah,
but let's
Okay.
Great.
So I don't have to feel too guilty.
actually what JL Collins says and he'sbeen on our show and he recommends

(32:18):
self cleansing is how he
Yeah, he recommends to the internationalaudience, the total world fund.
So you're following JL Collinsadvice to the international audience.
And then the U. S. He saysyou can get away with it.
So, yeah, there's a lot of talk in the U.
S. About should I haveinternational or not?
And, you know, I believe in what you guysbelieve in you know, the global financial

(32:39):
engine is very powerful and it may provideyou with some drag because the, for the
US, the rest of the world, drags andgrowth, but, it flips, it turns around.
And especially in, crashes inthe US and the tech industry,
you can bank on the world.
So that's the 4 percent ruleand the Donegan's portfolio.

(33:00):
We need to get to our other songsbecause there are other genres
and, we want to dance, you know,this is why we're here today.
And this is a song we can all.
Dance to maybe you could tell us whatbadacity mustachianism is so the audience
can understand before we play the tune.
Why did you do this one?

(33:23):
Well, one of the first people we found inthe FI world was Mr. Money Moustache, and
I'm sure so many of your listeners, thegateway, the simple path to math, simple
path to math, the simple, the shockinglysimple math behind early retirement.
right.
is a fantastic article and just theattitude, the energy of his blog

(33:47):
and his message is phenomenal aboutbeing a badass with your money, about
creating the life you want to live.
And it's this kind of tribute toanyone who takes the bold step of doing
things differently, especially you'recatching up to fire listeners that
they've living their life a certain way.
And they'll find this a bit later in life.

(34:09):
That's going to mean they're going toprobably make way more changes than
people that find this earlier on.
So that is a badass move to make thosechanges to say I'm going to change, going
to do things differently to how I've donethis in the past and to all my peers.
badass.
And that is, this song is for you.
Yeah, I mean, I agree, because I thinkour Catching Up to FI audience is badass.

(34:33):
They've turned it around, they woke up,
That's
they're making massive changes to headin the direction of financial security,
financial freedom, and I am proud of them,and I am proud to be a banner of this
movement, along with Jackie and Diana.
Absolutely.
to the tune.
Living

(35:21):
life with badassity,reaching early retirement.
Found myself a new mustache.
Found out I'm enlightened.
A shockingly simple man.
Made everything clear.
Cutting costs, saving cash,now our freedom is near.

(35:45):
Fugality, independence,and living free, badassity.
Fugality, independence,and living free, badassity.
Mustachionism.
Mustachionism.

(36:05):
All right.
That is definitely a dance tune.
You know, it may be a little hardfor our audience to hear some of the
lyrics, but maybe it all came through.
You know, what he's talking about,too, with that shockingly simple
math, is based on your savings rate.
You know your runway to retirementand you got to trust the math again.

(36:26):
This article was profound to me andit's profound to our late starters
because if you save 30 40 50 of yourincome and invest it in low cost
index funds You've got a 10 12 13year runway and Jackie is living
proof this is possible, right, Jackie?

(36:48):
Yeah, it really is.
And, you know, I always like toacknowledge that for some people
it is a little harder than others.
It was, it was hard for mebecause, you know, how I grew
up and grew up in poverty.
But man, when you start to turn that lighton just with basic financial literacy.
Then moving up to financialeducation and finally reaching

(37:08):
financial independence, it is doable.
And that's why I love tospeak to that level of people.
That's just startinghas no idea where to go.
Never had any of this stuff before.
You know, Alan and Katie, the stuffthat you do in the rebel finance school.
Absolutely free.
That is, to me, one of the bestgateways to start getting this stuff.

(37:32):
And once, I started on the path and,you know, just unraveling everything,
it is almost like, the sky is opening.
to figure out some ofthis financial stuff.
And that was the key for me.
And I think we all agree that, basicfinance, just starting with basic
financial literacy can get you onthe path to financial independence.

(37:56):
And even if you're starting it inyour fifties or your sixties, You
may think that it's too late, butone, you can make some movement,
you can make some improvement.
And who do you have aroundyou in the next generation?
That's watching everything thatyou do, where you can start
to create at least a legacy.
If you feel like it's too late for you.

(38:17):
Yeah.
We have a lot of people that comeon rebel finance school that are
later in life or finding it later intheir sixties, seventies and beyond.
And they're like, I can make changes.
And we inspire them with your help tosay, yes, you can make improvements.
And they're so excited to pass it on totheir kids, their nieces, their nephews.
their grandkids.

(38:39):
I had a message the other day that'slike our five year old and our two
month old are going to know about thisstuff before their next birthdays.
The power that they can, the impactthey can have on the people in
their lives as well is so exciting.
And Anyone who's listeningto this who thinks it's too
late for them, I have a test.

(38:59):
this is a simple test toknow whether it's too late.
I would like you to go to the bathroom,the restroom, and go to the mirror.
And I want you to breathe on the mirror.
If the mirror
fogs up, it's
not too late.
If
the mirror doesn't fog up, speak
to Bill.

(39:19):
Love it.
his services.
Yeah, right.
it is an emergency to catch up.
And we do, as in the nextsong, need to create a gap.
But it feels like to be a latestarter is, I think, universal.
Diana, you're a late starter.
What did it feel like to youto wake up and realize that you
got to take care of yourself?

(39:40):
You got to be the heroof your own journey.
Yeah, especially as asingle, a big wake up call.
I think forties when it hit me, I'mlike, I need to get my ducks in a row.
So just getting the education thatI needed and then finding the blog
and Mr. Money on Sessions blog andyeah, definitely, got to get going.
Yeah, I mean, for me, thefirst emotions were shame.

(40:03):
Well, how could I let this happen?
Regret, you know, whydidn't I know about this?
Why didn't my parents, my school mypeers teach me about this as a physician?
But the physicians are notoriousfor being bad with this.
And I ended up living apaycheck to paycheck life.
For 20, 25 years before I go, Oh, myGod, nobody's going to take care of me.

(40:25):
I've got to do it for myself.
You know, I, I can't trust the worldand social security to help me live the
retirement life that I want to live.
I've got to take control of that.
And what.
We have created Diana and Jackie, I think,as well as Alan and Katie, is a space to
feel safe, a space to be vulnerable, aspace for everybody not to feel alone,

(40:49):
that we refer to ourselves as the lostgeneration, as the silent generation,
the generation X that just didn't get themessage in the transition from a defined
benefit to a defined contribution plan.
So to me, badacity is.
It's definitely the way I feel andI'm really happy that you guys have

(41:10):
given us an anthem to rally behind.
And one of the ways we're badassesis we learn to create a gap.
And the third song in our special Releaseis create the gap and what do you guys
mean by that before we play the song?
Creating a gap between what you earnand what you spend is fundamental

(41:33):
to getting on top of your money.
So Bill, you just said that you werespending everything that you earned.
That has to change if you want tostart to get ahead with your money.
That's the first step.
So look at what you're spending,look at what you're earning.
Create that gap to then be ableto do something useful with it.
It is the only sustainable wayto create wealth is to have a gap
between your income and your spending.

(41:55):
That is it.
And people say things like,I'm not making progress.
What should I do?
And every time we go, let'sgo right back to the basics.
Do you have a gap between your spending?
And if you don't, that's what wehave to fix, work on increasing
the income, reducing the spending,get that gap and invest it.

(42:15):
That is the root everything.
I
Those are the levers that we cancontrol and you know I was fortunate
to have a big shovel and my wifeworked and now we have a side hustle
like you guys and like Jackie Youknow a side hustle is a superpower.
That's a lever.
You can pull real estate's a leverthat you Well, starting a business is a
lever that you can pull that helps youcreate that gap and helps you be able to

(42:42):
increase the gap, which is also important.
You know, as late starters, we can'tjust have a 10 percent savings, right?
That's that's a runway of 30 years.
Yeah, it's a great start.
Great start.
I mean, then you got to get it going,but then increase it with time,
increase it with your raises, investyour tax refund everywhere you can find

(43:04):
money, throw it at your investmentson the investment fire, and you will
find that you can create that runway.
What was amazing for us was we went froma, I don't know, 10 percent savings rate
or single digit saver, as I referredto ourselves to overnight, practically
overnight within a year or two, a 40%.
Savings, right?

(43:24):
And our lifestyle did not change.
I was amazed.
I'm like, we're still doingall the things we want to do.
we're reducing the waste and ourincomes haven't necessarily gone up.
Well, that's not entirely true because mywife went back to full time work, which
made, as empty nesters that was possible.

(43:46):
And that's yet another superpowerfor us as late starters,
I think I heard your dog barkingin the background, but if I could
mouth the words, I think he wasbarking, play the song, play the song.
right, well, if you guys are ready,
are loving the songs too.
well, , Lily's rocking out downstairs.

(44:06):
You know, podcasts are live eventsand you just got to go with the flow.
But anyway, the flowtakes us to create a gap.
Enjoy the tune.

(44:29):
In every choice, I dothe math and feel it.
It's not binary, there'salways another way.
I might not be there, butI'm learning each day.
Create a gap, in mustard dough.
Overdome it grows, grows, grows.

(44:59):
All right.
Well, you know what, that just inspiresyou to create a gap right there.
And we have a female vocalist this time.
So it's awesome that you did somuch with the music through Finn.
And did you actually hire vocaliststo do this or they just do it out
of the goodness of their heart inthe fi world that you found them?
I kind of wish, but we actuallyinvested a reasonable amount

(45:22):
of money and time in this.
So we would write the lyrics, we wouldwork on the tunes, then we would hire
professional vocalists, guitarists.
drummers, we had recording sessions,we've been recording for six months,
nine months, and then Finn takes thosedifferent tracks, compiles them, pulls

(45:44):
them together, and then you have afinal mastered and mixed project.
But yeah, we have Invested quitea few dollars paying professional
singers, professional musicians,because people should earn
money for creating good content.
Content creators should be paid,they're producing something

(46:04):
of value for the universe.
Okay, well, I love the quality.
What's interesting about thisalbum is it's not like homegrown
organic may have had an organicstart, but it has real professional
polishing, which I think is so cool.
I mean, there's so manyanthems for our movement.

(46:25):
I think that we even have in our finalsong, which is The boring middle.
I think we have a pop tune here.
I think we have somethingthat's going to hit the charts.
What do you think, Diana?
Absolutely.
I was so moved the firsttime I listened to this.
I, I left the Donagans a, a voicemail.
It was just, I was very moved.

(46:45):
It's very good.
Jackie, what do you thinkof the boring middle?
And we have to describewhat it is in a minute.
I, I loved every singlesong that was on here.
I think this kind of exemplifiesour audience in particular.
So I really loved that.
Yeah, you guys did an amazing job.
I'm like, where did theyget those vocalists?
Like, these are awesomevocalists, the music behind it.

(47:07):
And I'm like, I wouldn't even know whereto start, but you guys are entrepreneurs.
So you always find away to create the most.
professional content.
No, rather it's, it's your bookor your school or this new album.
So we're all about it.
You see, we're just jamming out over hereand I love Diana with that rocker hair.

(47:27):
Well, you know it would be nice tosee a live concert with us, , at a
meetup, it would be nice to get thegroup together, the revolutionaries
and really see this live.
It would be so cool.
And maybe there's a future in that.
And what's also cool.
We talked about it.
Prior to the show is creatinga catch up song for the
catching up to five community.

(47:49):
We may work on this to have ourown unique music guys, and we
want to hear what you think.
We want to hear what you thinkmight need to be in the lyrics.
So look for this in the future.
We're going to work with Katieand Alan on creating this for
our audience, but let's hear.
The Boring Middle.

(48:12):
I've heard it called the BoringMiddle, where the grind never ends.
But this is where I've built my strength,and learned to love the journey.
It ain't about the numbers,or the dollars that I save.
It's the habits and the health I gain,in preparing for the freedom I crave.

(48:38):
Ooh, it ain't the boringmiddle, it's the best part.
Ooh, it's time for health and happiness.
Ooh, I'm ready for life.
So don't rush through the middle.
Take your time and join the ride.
For it's in the so called boringpart that we truly come alive.

(49:05):
I think that line, it's in theboring middle that we truly
come alive, is a title track.
It just, it's your first 45the boring middle is boring.
I'm in it.
It is.
It's hard work.
It's the long sludge.
You wake up.
And then you go down the rabbithole and you're like, I got this.

(49:25):
I can do this.
This is so cool.
And we all do this.
The path to FI is really similar foreverybody, whether you're 30, 35, 40, 55.
I woke up at 50 and you can see behind me.
I digested shelves of books thatslowed me down a little bit.
It doesn't take a book to get there.

(49:47):
Read the shockingly simple math,read the simple path to wealth, and
you're off to the races, right guys?
Yep,
Yeah.
That's all you need.
Yeah.
And maybe
podcast.
That's it.
Like,
Yeah, there you go.
And find out the waythat you learn the best.
For some people it's videos.
For some people it's audio.
Some people it's an album like this thatjust helps put it all together, so yeah.

(50:13):
I mean, the boring middle for me, it isa grind and it's probably the wrong term
to use because you talk about in thissong, you've got to enjoy life's journey.
You can't just wish yourself toteleport to that End goal, the finish
line where you've reached a number.
You've got to enjoy itas the number builds.

(50:35):
Right guys?
Yeah, absolutely.
And I made a big mistake of thinkingall my problems would be solved
and I'd wake up blissfully happythe day that we hit our number.
And it doesn't work like that.
And I want to save.
people the pain that I had ofwaking up the next morning and
being like, oh, I'm still me.

(50:57):
I still have the same weird things of waysof thinking and behaving and acting and
things that I didn't like about myself.
It's not like suddenly I became blissfullyhappy and the purpose of this song
is to tell, or to encourage people,please work on your happiness, please
work on your health, whilst you're inthis so called boring middle that, it's

(51:18):
not the boring middle, it's the bestpart, it's the time where you get to be
ready for that freedom when you get it.
I wasn't ready for it, I was likeOh, what do I do with all this time?
This is weird.
I don't know how to do this.
You have this time to prepareyourself for that, to try things out.
Like, what is it that you might wantto do when you have that time freedom?
And start doing it now.

(51:39):
What can you do now to enjoy?
There's this piece of Fi that weall get very excited when we learn
about it, and we listen to everyepisode of Catching Up to Fi.
We read all the books, and then you getto the point where you go, I know this.
Now I just have to wait.
And that's why they callit the boring middle.

(52:01):
But to me, that's the most exciting piece.
Because you have automated your finances.
You've learned everythingyou need to learn.
Now you can get on with leading your life.
And just, like, lead your life.
We had this wonderful guy fromIndia on the Rebel Finance School.
And he came on and he goes,I'm in the boring middle.
What should I do?
And we both looked at each other going,Stop listening to us and go and live your

(52:25):
life, go and spend time with your family,like, work out, look after your health.
You've automated this, which iswhy you feel bored, because you're
like, it should happen quicker.
If you focus on living your life,the boring middle will become
the best part and you will loveyour time with your family.
You will love your time looking afteryour health, rocking out to tunes,

(52:48):
doing whatever it is you want to do.
So I think that would be our callto the Catching Up To Fi crew.
Start living your life now.
Make a list of what you want to do inretirement and then just start now.
Yeah.
I mean, the boring middle is in some ways,the exciting middle you do have to wait,

(53:09):
but don't wait to the exclusion of living.
No, you talk about the outro and thechorus is don't rush through the middle.
Take your time.
Enjoy the ride.
For it's in the so called boringmiddle part that we truly come alive.
You know, that's so true.
That is just so true.

(53:30):
My boring middle is not boring at all.
I discovered a podcast.
I discovered the Phi community.
I met Diana.
I met Jackie.
I met you guys.
I go to these conferencesand I have so many friends.
It's exponential.
It compounds.
You know, everybody'sboring middle is different.
And it's not boring.

(53:50):
It's about relationships.
It is about your health, but relationshiphealth, too, because you take those
people with you into retirement.
I'm not going to take the peopleI work with into retirement.
I'm going to take my Phicrowd into retirement.
You know,
Yeah.
I'll exit the building, and they willhave forgotten me by the next day.

(54:10):
It, all of a sudden, I'm like,
You're not thatforgettable, Bill, come on.
I'm just in some ways, unfortunately, inmy job, I'm a bit of a cog in the wheel.
I'm a lone wolf.
And, you know, while I make an impactwhile I'm there, and it's true for I
think a lot of people, if you get youridentity wrapped around your work, you
know, when you exit the building, asdoes Elvis, You know, you may not be,

(54:35):
you know, the famous ER doctor anymore.
You want to be the famous father, thefamous husband, the famous friend.
And that's where the postretirement life comes alive.
Katie, you mentioned you didn'tknow what to do with yourself.
Did you struggle at all with the emotionsof maybe a short depression, as a lot
of people do if they don't figure thisout before they exit the building?

(54:59):
I don't know if I was depressed.
I felt very lost.
I felt like, what do I do with this time?
And it coincided withthe pandemic as well.
So we retired in mid 2019.
Early 2020, we decided thatwe would travel the world
and go completely nomadic.
Not the best time to travel the world.

(55:21):
Worst timing ever.
Pandemic looming.
So then we're, lockdown, trapped athome and it's like, Oh, now what?
Literally there was the hours to dowhatever you want, which is freedom,
but it's also overwhelming as well.
then we had the idea ofdoing Rebel Finance School.
And that purpose and thatdrive, that's so exciting.

(55:44):
That wakes, when I wake up in themorning, I'm like, what can we
do to help and to give and to,people don't really get this point.
Let's create something to helppeople and that focus on something
outside of yourself is so powerfulas well that it's not all about
you and focusing on yourself.
So I found that really helped withvery much about find a purpose.

(56:08):
But that purpose is made up.
We made up Rebel Finance School.
Make up what it is.
Is it looking after your kids?
Is it you want to for a walk on a beach
every day?
Be the best wood carpenterthe world has ever seen.
It doesn't
Right,
Build the biggest Lego city in the world.
It doesn't matter what your purpose is.
And I think That's the mistakea lot of people make is they go

(56:31):
out there looking for purpose
right,
i'll i'll go to thailand I'll goto a temple and buy elephant pants
and i'll sit there waiting forpurpose to come And that's not how
it works You just try stuff and
right.
message from the boring middle is trystuff now Because if you try stuff now

(56:53):
on the journey, try podcasting, trywriting a book, try singing a song,
try making a table, I don't reallycare what it is, try it now, and then
you'll be so excited to have more timeto do your thing, that you'll be moving
into something positive, you'll beexcited about the future, and that's it.

(57:14):
really what we want, then you're justpositively moving forwards, full of joy,
looking forward to this bright future.
Well, it's about curiosity,and it's about experimentation.
We had Jordan Grumet on the showtalking about his book, The Purpose
Code, and he talks about Big P Purposeand Little P Purpose, and what we're

(57:34):
talking about here, in the boring middleand thereafter, is Little P Purpose.
You can make a difference in theworld, as he said about one of his
mentors, selling baseball cards.
Because you bring together a bunch ofkids that have a mentor in that, and they
learn how to collect something, how tosell something, how to engage in trade.

(57:55):
There are so many things that we cando or we're already doing that we
don't realize are impacting the world.
I mean, one of our.
passions is to take our dogs, whoyou heard in the background, to
a children's hospital and visitwith kids with cancer on Fridays.
You know, it, lights us up.
My wife and I are both physiciansand we're responsible with a

(58:17):
heavy burden of helping people,you know, find their health.
You work back to health and when we go tothe hospital, all we do is passively give.
We bring smiles to the staff, to thekids, to the families, to the parents.
And that is so important.

(58:38):
And it just, and whatdid it end up in for me?
I just went to my first boardmeeting last night of the volunteer
board because of that passion.
I now get to help all the volunteers feel.
What they're doing for thishospital is making a difference.
So these things grow.
These things compound, as BradBarrett says, what's your 1%?
What's your 1 percent better every day?

(59:00):
Diana, tell us what yourretirement might look like.
Volunteering for you all.
yeah.
And, and your, your your social mediaexpert skills and I have seen them
grow and grow and I'm like, Oh my God,I can't even imagine coming up with
some of the stuff you come up with.
So

(59:20):
No, it gives, and this,this community gives.
purpose.
That's been a joy for me, you know,as Jackie might say, when Becky
exited the building because sheneeded to live her best retired life.
And I was like, this podcast mightnot survive because who wants to
listen to a high income, bald whiteguy, talk to an audience of people

(59:43):
that are very different from me.
little,
Was listening,
I know, but I was just alittle too vanilla, I thought.
And
Oh
It's just didn't bringit to me to do it alone.
And I thought, what am I going to do?
And I reached out to Jackieand guess what she said?
She said, and when you asked me to dothis, I feel like I found a home and I

(01:00:03):
still think about that and it, it just,and I think Diana can say the same thing.
And it just.
When you create something and useyour right brain, which I hadn't
used for years because I was allleft brained and, you know, how
do we solve this medical problem?
But then as I moved to my rightbrain, my boring middle came alive.

(01:00:26):
What do you guys think?
Laughter
think your main goal wasto bring in another lens.
Like we couldn't be more opposite,you're white and I'm black.
I grew up in poverty, you know, I'm awoman, I'm divorced, you're married.
You've got, so I think it makes it muchmore interesting to have different.

(01:00:49):
Voices.
So that's why it was anattractive proposal to me.
Plus, I like the old white guy.
You know, it's great.
We have a lot of fun.
I don't even see you that way.
I mean, obviously, youknow, our demographics, you
know, people can see that.
But more than anything, It's justyou as you, you know, and I'm hoping

(01:01:12):
that we continue to bring, you know,this value and these different lenses
to our audience for very long time.
And Katie and Alan, you know,you guys have, you inspire us.
You know, we reference the things thatyou do and the things you talk about
all the time for us to get better.
And that's why it was so meaningfulfor us to help you introduce

(01:01:34):
your album and your book.
And it just means a lot.
And I think our audienceis going to love them both.
We're just, yeah, we're so gratefulfor you to share the music, because
what's the point of creating amusic album if no one listens to it?
So excited about the different tracksand our kind of hope is that the audience

(01:01:55):
will play them and maybe they'll havetheir kids in the car and the kids will be
singing along to the earn and invest song.
Or they're playing the compoundingsong or they're playing the song
about buy your freedom first.
They go to the shops with their kids andthey're playing buy your freedom first
and they decide not to buy plastic tat.
They put
Yeah.
VTSAX or VTI or VT or whateverthe, The fund is that they use

(01:02:20):
and we just kind of hope that.
songs become something that people willplay to inspire the message, to repeat the
message themselves, and to start livinga life that will truly bring them alive.
Well, this is a media thatyou could imagine in schools.
What we need to see is, you know,because kids, they want TikTok.

(01:02:42):
They don't necessarily want to readthe shockingly simple math, and nor
maybe should they at their young age.
But if you play these songs, say, ina classroom, in a finance class, you
have so much material to talk about.
I mean, it really is another way,another lens to look at what our
community is trying to do in bringingfinancial literacy to the entire world.

(01:03:04):
I mean, Jackie is a financial educator.
She retired at 49.
She's busier than she ever was,probably, when she was employed in
the corporate world in a nine to five.
I know that for a fact, becauseshe's everywhere all the
time, just like that movie.
Yeah, busier and happier.
I can say that.
So it doesn't even feel like work.

(01:03:26):
I'm not complaining.
I'm not rolling in my eyes.
I'm not groaning.
I do it.
And I, you know, I was so excited forthis podcast a day every time we record.
So that is a critical difference.
That's the critical difference.
So Diana, as we come to the closeof this show, do you have any final
thoughts or questions for Alan and Katie?
Yes, The Boring Middle.

(01:03:47):
Again, that song, itjust, it so got to me.
And I've had, as soon as Jasoncame home from work, he'd be like,
you have to listen to this song.
And all he got out of it waslike, you have to enjoy the ride.
And my first time going around themountain, it was like work, work,
work, do this, do this, don't have fun.
And then I get to go down themountain a second time and he's
like, travel, do this, give this.

(01:04:08):
And I'm like, Whoa.
So it was great to see both sides.
And I just want to definitely, youhave to enjoy the ride because if
you're not, and the other thing Ireally, really wanted to talk about
was it's a time at that middle.
We truly come alive.
I think we discover who we are Becausewe're we're stretched beyond belief
that we're do things We never thoughtwe could do and we're finally spending

(01:04:31):
money on things that we value Insteadof how I did in the past where I didn't
know where money was going and I'mspending money on things like why was?
I spending money on thisso it's just a life changing.
So I wanted to add.
Thank you
Well, great.
Thanks for your thoughts.
And Katie and Alan, youhave a book coming out, too.
We may have to do another podcastabout that because you use superheroes

(01:04:55):
to supercharge your audience.
And I love that.
wearing superhero t shirts.
Jackie has Warren Buffett on, Dianahas Captain America on, and I'm
wearing debt sucks, which is in away, you know, a superhero anthem.
We are our own superheroes and we need torecognize that so that we don't get bored.

(01:05:19):
This life is not boring unlessyou let it be so right guys.
that's right.
used to say to me onlyboring people get bored.
And when I was young, I'm like, shutup mum, it's boring, there's nothing
to do, I'm bored, leave me alone.
And she's like, only boringpeople get bored, and I didn't

(01:05:39):
even know what that meant.
And now I'm 46, how old am I?
I think you're 46.
And I've realized she was right.
There is so much in this world thatyou can live and do and experience
and talk to people so much and we'venever lived a time like this, where

(01:06:04):
we can have a podcast created withfour people in different countries,
like random British people who can'tsing can create music with a Canadian.
Like we've never had before.
a time like this, and no one is comingto fix this for you, no one is coming

(01:06:25):
to save you, have to save yourself.
And that for us is the fundamental messageof everything, is if you want your life
to change, Don't look for anyone else.
The government is definitelynot coming to help.
There's no random internet strangers.
Yes, we will create podcasts, butyou still have to do all the work.

(01:06:47):
You still have to do it all.
And we love it when we get the messagesthat say, you changed our lives.
And we kind of replygoing like, thank you.
That's flattering.
And no, we didn't.
We gave you an idea.
You did it.
Yes.
Yes.
we would love people to hear.
is no one's coming to save you.
It is your opportunity.

(01:07:08):
You get one life, create the lifeyou want to live and do it now.
Well, I have a dream.
As Martin Luther Kingsaid, I have a dream.
And my dream is that the peoplethat listen to this podcast share
it with 10 people that shareit with another 10 people that
share it with another 100 people.
And we want to reach the peopleoutside of this bubble that

(01:07:30):
typically listen to these things.
Please share this.
It's a sharing economy help.
This is passive learning.
If they listen to this music, theymight say, What's the 4 percent rule?
What's the gap?
They'll get curious about thisand it'll help them wake up.
We're just looking for many, manydifferent ways to help people engage.

(01:07:51):
You can't lecture.
You can't tell them what they want to do.
My kids called me lecture daddy andthey were like, I don't want to hear it.
You better start a Facebook group,a podcast and tell somebody else,
Yeah.
It's like not intimidating, a wayin which you are actually being
entertained a little bit at thesame time you're learning something.
I think that's part of the magic formula.

(01:08:13):
okay, well.
had a very preachy phase.
It didn't win any friends.
No.
lost quite a few.
so you, guys, we talked about the book andwho was writing the forward to the book?
We have Mr. Money Moustache, the man,the myth, the legend, said yes to
Yes.
word to the book.

(01:08:33):
And yeah, I just, excited.
I've not seen what he's
Yay.
We got confetti going all around here.
That is exciting.
I'm like, bad assity.
Okay.
I know Mr. Money Mustachemust've signed off on that.
So you've got the book coming out.
When does the book come out?
The book will come out rightat the beginning of April.
Yeah, the exact date is not thereyet if you want to know more,

(01:08:55):
you can just go to rebeldonigans.
com, which is our website, and that willgive you everything you need to know, or
you can sign up to our mailing list if you
Yeah.
on us, or not.
When can we, when can we pre order?
Because we know preorders are so important.
When can we do that?
We're working on that.
I have never come acrossa project that is so big.

(01:09:17):
I don't know how you didit, Jackie, with Fire
it was a lot.
It was a lot.
write down tangents.
It's like, how big does thespine need to be for our book?
It,
how
it, it,
is the book?
Oh, do we
Oh, right.
this many in the frontmatter and the back matter
Exactly.
It was crazy.
But you know what?
You can be sure that wewill be talking about it.
So whenever it comes out, we will besharing and posting, not just making sure

(01:09:42):
our community knows about it, but everyonethat we are remotely connected to.
So we are, this just keeps uson the edge of our seat, right?
We're like, when was the date?
What's the date?
So we've got the album coming out.
The album is coming out in mid March.
Is that right?
March 21st.
So we do have a date for that.
So we've got the book, we've gotthe album, you've been sort of

(01:10:04):
pre releasing a few snippets.
So, so we're just excited abouteverything that you have going on and
not to, not to forget about your RebelFinance School that you do every summer.
I'm sure that will be opening soon.
Like you guys got a lot, you guysare such an inspiration for so many.
You're kind of representing that middle,you know, it's not boring anymore.

(01:10:25):
It's the exciting middle and you guysare just doing it like, like we love it.
Like we were energizedfor this today's podcast.
So we know where to find you.
We got dates and everything.
What else we got
Well, we're gonna exit the buildinghere, but we're gonna exit on a real
positive note, because I'd like to, youknow, move on out with the boring middle.

(01:10:49):
One.
More.
Time.
I've heard it called the boringmiddle Where the grind never ends
But this is where I've built mystrength Learned to love the journey
It ain't about the numbers Orthe dollars that I save It's the

(01:11:14):
habits and the health I gain Inpreparing for the freedom I crave
Ooh, it ain't the boring middle It's thebest part Ooh, it's time for health and
happiness Ooh, I'm ready for life So don'trush through the middle Take your time,

(01:11:37):
enjoy the ride For it's in the so calledboring part That we truly come alive
Katie?
Alan, Jackie, Diana, thankyou for being here today.
Thank you for rocking outand swaying to the tunes.

(01:11:57):
We'll see all of you nextweek on Catching Up to FI.
We cannot forget that todayis Katie's birthday, and I
can't sing, but I'm gonna do it
We're going to
for this show.

(01:12:18):
No, it's gonna beterrible, but that's okay.
All right, guys.
One, two, three.
Happy birthday
birthday
to
to
happy birthday
to you,
Happy
Happy birthday, dear Katie.

(01:12:38):
Happy birthday.
birthday to you.
might
was
worst rendition, but
That may have been the worst renditionof happy birthday known to man.
Does this mean we won'tbe on your next album?
All right.
definitely.
Katie.

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Not Just Another Album, It’s A Money Revolution! | Alan & Katie Donegan | 129

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Not Just Another Album, It’s A Money Revolution! | Alan & Katie Donegan | 129