April 16, 2025 • 42 mins
We're excited to introduce you to our newest 'Catching Up to FI' team member, Patrick McDonnal. In this episode, you'll get to hear some of his money story and how he'll be helping with the show. Patrick discusses his career transition from engineering to financial planning and openly shares how the early financial education he got from his grandfather helped shape his journey. We're also celebrating with Patrick because he just sat for the very challenging, CFP Exam in March and got a preliminary 'Pass'. He is now well on his way to earning his Certified Financial Planner credential.
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📗 Choose FI: Your Blueprint to Financial Independence
⏰ ‘Catching Up to FI’ Episodes
George Kinder (coming in May)
The Powers of Starting Late, Retirement Calculators, and More | Chris Mamula | 086
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
It was about seven, eight years I wasmanufacturing, engineering, and I. I
would say probably around last summer,or actually it was 2023, summer, I
started looking into other careers.
I, I kind of realized I was probably ata minimum level of CoastFI and I just
(00:22):
started looking at what was out there.
Could I actually have a career that washelping people with their finances and.
I think originally I wouldn't, ifI had, been looking that direction
when I was choosing colleges anda major and everything, I actually
don't think I would've picked it.
Because, and that has to do with some ofthe changes that CFP board has actually
(00:44):
made over the last five to 10 years.
my grandfather on my mom's side.
We used to play kind of a boardgame that was from he's a little
controversial now, Robert Kiyosaki.
But anyway, it's, called Cashflowand it's like a little, almost
like a monopoly type game and.
He even had like a little matching programwith me where he would invest and stuff.
(01:09):
And I did that completelyseparate from my parents.
And then after college he hadpassed away by that point.
And so I kind of figured, okay, wellI. Now it's kind of on me to continue
that education moving forward.
And so when I got that very first job, Ilooked to those resources that were out
(01:30):
there, like a Choose Fi and other thingsthat were, I guess, popular at the time,
(02:04):
Hello, and welcome backto Catching Up to FI.
I am Bill Yount with mybeautiful, young, and vibrant
co-host, Jackie Cummings Koski.
coming to you today recording on thefirst day of Financial Literacy Month.
We're very excited because by now, afterthis airs, you'll have heard Paul Merriman
tell us all about Financial LiteracyMonth, and we're just excited to celebrate
(02:24):
all month long in April with you.
How are you doing, Jackie?
I am doing great.
You call me young, but you know what?
We got a new teammate that has uprootedme as a young person on the team, and
we are talking with him today, Patrick.
Hey, how you doing?
Patrick McDonald.
He is a newly minted CFP candidate.
(02:45):
He just passed his exam.
We should probably hear aboutthat because it's a lot harder
than I thought it would be.
And I come from the med school domainand man, I was like, they actually do.
Test these people.
Patrick, how are you doing today?
You're out there on the Bay Area andwe're over here on the East Coast.
We just saw you for, I met youfor the first time at Economy.
That conference, we keep hammering home.
(03:07):
That is the place to be inCincinnati in March, and so come
with us next year to economy.
But Patrick, it was really nicemeeting you, hanging out with you,
getting to know you, and we're excitedto have you on the show because
you're our newest teammate, right?
Yeah.
I'll be working on the newsletter.
I think we.
We'll have the video out forthat soon from you and Jackie
(03:30):
and I will kind of clarify.
On the CFP exam, the actual finalresults aren't out for a couple
more weeks, but they rarelyoverturn the preliminary passes.
As I understand, it's mostly thepreliminary fails that get reviewed,
and rarely some of those questionsare deemed not appropriate.
(03:50):
And so those turn into official passes.
Instead,
You mentioned that, what isthe past rate of this exam?
I mean, do they weed people out on this?
What, what percentage of peopleactually passed the first time?
you can actually go through backyears and years, but it centers
somewhere around 60% pass rate.
Yeah, pretty, pretty low pass rate.
And you know so since everybodydoesn't pass the first time, some
(04:13):
people would take it multipletimes and the pass rate goes down.
The more times that you take it.
So Patrick is right.
When we go through the CFP program,they stress to us the terminology
that you can and cannot use.
So officially, Patrick is a CFP candidate.
When you pass the exam, it's technicallyyou find out the day that you take
(04:34):
the exam, but it's preliminary andI think in about six weeks, 'cause
I went through this whole processand it was so nerve wracking.
So he's got about six weeksbefore he gets the official,
official to say, Hey, you passed.
But I think the bottom line is, it's avery difficult exam, 170 questions, seven
hours, and you spend, years preparingfor it, including getting your experience
(04:58):
hours so it is not to be taken lightly.
So we're excited to have you onour team and we were cheering
for you and we already knewPatrick, that you were gonna pass.
So when we got together, I'm like, bill,we need to record a message for Patrick.
We know that he's not taking it until nextweek, but we know that he is gonna pass.
So we knew that you were gonna pass,and you of course, are stuffed with
a ton of knowledge as you do that.
(05:19):
But Patrick, you are alsocurrently working for a,
financial planning firm, right?
That's right.
I've been an intern at a financialplanning firm for about a
year now, part-time, and yeah,I've been having a lot of fun.
We've mentioned two of the, orthree of the four E's from CFP,
which are the experience, theexam, and the education portion.
(05:44):
But yeah, I, I will need another 4,000hours or so of CFP experience before
I can actually use that designation,even after those results come out.
Yeah.
And then that's a good time to mention, sohow we even connected with you right now.
I know, so if you go to YouTube,you look at Patrick, you're gonna
say, is he even outta high school?
(06:04):
Patrick looks very, very young.
Kind of like my daughter.
My daughter, when she puts her hairin ponytails, people think she's 16.
But Patrick is actually, has beena working professional for over a
decade in the field of engineering.
So, how on earth did you move fromengineering to financial planning?
Well, not quite a decade.
It was about seven, eight years I wasmanufacturing, engineering, and I. I
(06:30):
would say probably around last summer,or actually it was 2023, summer, I
started looking into other careers.
I, I kind of realized I was probably ata minimum level of CoastFI and I just
started looking at what was out there.
Could I actually have a career that washelping people with their finances and.
(06:52):
I think originally I wouldn't, ifI had, been looking that direction
when I was choosing colleges anda major and everything, I actually
don't think I would've picked it.
Because, and that has to do with some ofthe changes that CFP board has actually
made over the last five to 10 years.
And that is a requirement forfiduciary duty for anything
(07:13):
at financial advice or higher.
And we can go into thosedetails if you want, but.
Those changes to CFP Board, Iwould say, is what solidified my
wanting to pursue it as a career.
I want the ethics commitment, I wantthe standard kind of that is set
(07:34):
by them to at least be a guiding, astarting place, if you will for the
level of competence that I'm aiming for.
It seems like, you know, you've been,interested in money for a long time
because when I talked to you, not onlydid you know about what CF Ping was about,
but you knew what life planning was about,and we're about to have George Kinder on,
can you wet our appetites a little bit?
(07:55):
'cause somebody your age say, adecade into your professional career.
Knows about things that a 5060-year-old I might be the
oldest CFB board certificate.
You never know.
One day I might do it, but for you,I found your knowledge as one of a
much more mature person in the space.
How did that happen?
(08:15):
Yeah, so there's two thingsI want to hit on there.
The first thing is that I got a lot of myearly financial education, if you will,
from one of my grandparents, and that cameprimarily after my parents got divorced.
I was around eight at the time.
And life just kind ofshifted from that point.
You know, you have to go totwo different households.
You do the Christmas and the summer thing.
(08:38):
Life just looks a little bit different.
Then just briefly, because I,I want to talk about the George
Kinder thing for a second.
That is actually how I found my firmthat I'm at, is they have a focus on
life planning and also people thatwant to move kind of internationally
specifically Europe is the mainone, they'll help people kind of
get situated elsewhere as well.
(09:00):
Well, you know, I, I'm findingit very interesting that divorce
and, things in life that happen.
It's kind of cool to seeit through your lens.
Like, we have a lot of divorced people.
I'm a divorced person, but my experienceand our experience as an adult, you
know, in the situation, a parentin the situation is very different
(09:20):
than the child in the situation.
So it's kind of cool to hearwhat you have to say about that.
you said so you found your firm throughdoing your research about George
Kinder and they operate similarly.
yeah.
Really what it is is XY PlanningNetwork is the, is a main company that
(09:43):
that sets up the fee only RIA A. Sothat, that is, I. Anyone that doesn't
sell for a commission, you would saythat does include the a OM model.
And within their search engine, ifyou will, they have different filters.
And one of them is for life planning.
Yeah, we're gonna talk to GeorgeKinder about the kinder questions
(10:03):
because you know, if you take financialplanning to sort of the holistic
level which Patrick is interested indoing, you're really looking at how
to help people be their best person.
And live their best life.
You know, their goals, dreams,and values, and then you use
money as a tool to get there.
And it isn't just aboutrunning the numbers right.
(10:23):
Definitely I'm out here in the BayArea, like you said, and I do see a
lot of those I guess highly compensatedemployees that are working on that
work life balance, if you will.
And when is enough, right.
What do you mean by one is enough?
Well, you could say that, we willrun that Monte Carlo simulation
(10:45):
and if it says a hundred percent,you have effectively won the game.
At that point,
One is enough you know, with highlycompensated employees like that, are
they thinking that, my end is one,meaning I just need to get my life right.
I.
It's a hard question to answer, I think'cause it's different for everyone.
(11:06):
You want to be living your bestlife and you really need to
define what that is for you.
You want to be spendingtime with your family.
You want to be pursuingmastery of something.
There's so many different ways toanswer that for an individual person.
Yeah, I mean, and then againyou're barely 30 and you're
(11:27):
thinking like somebody my age.
you're so far ahead of the game with bothfinancial knowledge and life knowledge.
I feel like I was just swimming in asea of messiness when I was growing up.
You seem very focused.
And defined on your goals, is thatthe natural spirit of an engineer
(11:47):
or what led you to be so laserfocused on, helping people with their
financial lives and their goals?
It will go back to my parents.
I consider both of 'em to be latestarters as a result of kind of
restarting, if you will, from the divorce.
Yeah, one of them had to go back.
(12:08):
My mom had to go back to schooland everything and become, she's
actually a teacher for kindergarten.
And my dad ended up having to,lose ownership of the house
and he kind of had to restart.
And in that way, if you will.
What was it like for them to realizethat they were late starters?
What age did they wake up and whatwas it like for you to see the
(12:30):
financial struggles in your parents?
Age waking up.
That's a tough one.
I would say some, in someways they're still waking up.
I think the high cost of living in theBay Area I. Even the last few years
everywhere I've seen it skyrocket.
I would say and they're getting closerto that quote unquote retirement age,
(12:52):
and you start asking those questionslike, can I afford to keep living here?
Can I, take care ofloved ones if I want to.
And yeah, I'm, I'm not really surequite how to answer that age question.
But yeah, I think it'sa continuous process.
well, and I wanna say this, so a littlebit before you talked about how you had
(13:16):
been in your engineering career for aboutseven or eight years, and you got to the
point where you were pretty much CoastFI.
Okay.
That's a big statement.
You only had been working for about sevenor eight years and you reached CoastFI.
So how did you do that?
Because when I first talked to youand, and how did we first meet Patrick?
(13:37):
first met at FPA Gathering,
so financial planning association.
Okay.
So they have their community within that.
That's for the next generation planners,pretty much defined as within the first
I would say 10 years of their career.
And so that can be your student right?
Outta college or that canbe someone like me that's
(13:57):
changing
careers over, yeah.
like both of us, that's changing
both of
us.
Yeah.
And so you were given a presentationat Gathering, which is their
annual event, and I was going,wait, that's that's Jackie.
She's the, the Hs.
A expert.
Yeah.
And, the presentationwas not even on HSAs.
And it was my professor, Dr. McCoy,who I love from Kansas State,
(14:18):
she asked me to present with her.
And she's my favorite professorbecause she certainly did not
need me to present on that topic.
So that is how we met.
And did I tell you about economywhen we were chatting and that's
how you ended up at economy?
That's right.
Yeah.
I, I had never gone to economy or anyother FI oriented event before that
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I remember thinking when you'retelling me, okay, at the time you're
(14:43):
in your late twenties and you weresaying that you wanted to move into
financial planning, you had alreadysigned up for a review program.
And I'm thinking, oh,this kid is kind of young.
Like, does he know what he's doing?
And I asked her, I said, well.
Do you have a way to supportyourself as you make this transition?
He could says, yeah, I alreadygot all that lined up and like
you had it, so I was blown away.
(15:05):
So, so yeah.
How did you get to the point where youwere Coast FI after only working for
seven or eight years in the Bay Area?
I don't really know howto answer that one either.
Keeping expenses low whenyou get those raises.
Try to direct a significantportion towards savings.
And then, you know, I'mstill single at this point.
(15:28):
I don't have a family to support.
I'm a renter.
I do not have the burden of homeownership in the Bay Area that others do.
Okay.
I was gonna ask you about the homeownership, so I'm just curious,
what do rents run in the Bay Area?
Is it a two bedroom?
One bedroom?
I.
I'm getting a deal from my,one of my relatives here.
(15:49):
But I would say anywhere,anywhere around the 2000 to 3,500
range, depending on that size.
And, and what you're looking for ispretty normal, and I think you can easily
find one once up from up from there.
Wow, that, I mean that, that's just crazy.
So if I hear you correctly, you'resaying you kept your expenses low.
(16:14):
You were taking your raisesand you were investing those.
Were you just investing in your 401k?
Were you doing a brokerage account?
Yeah.
At the time I was doing,I would say all four.
I was doing my 401k, Iwas doing a Roth IRA.
And I was doing after tax brokerage,and then I didn't even take your HSA
(16:35):
advice for, you know, several years in.
But I started doing that aswell and my company actually
gave a small match for not match
just a contribution towards that as well.
So did you just
have financial, genetic makeup like this?
Was it your parents' financial lackof acumen that got you involved?
I'm trying to understand how youknew what these things were, not
(16:58):
only knew what they were, but able toleverage them into your own financial.
Wherewithal to become CoastFI in your late twenties.
I, I wasn't even.
On the map of thinking aboutmoney in my late twenties.
So where did that come from for you?
You are next gen. You're our nextgen CFP, personal finance leader.
You are who we want to haveas our advisors going forward.
(17:21):
How did you get there?
What were the things earlierin your upbringing that led
you to become so voraciouslyinterested in this information?
It was mostly my grandfatheron my mom's side.
We used to play kind of a boardgame that was from he's a little
controversial now, Robert Kiyosaki.
But anyway, it's, called Cashflowand it's like a little, almost
(17:42):
like a monopoly type game and.
He even had like a little matching programwith me where he would invest and stuff.
And I did that completelyseparate from my parents.
And then after college he hadpassed away by that point.
And so I kind of figured, okay, wellI. Now it's kind of on me to continue
(18:04):
that education moving forward.
And so when I got that very first job, Ilooked to those resources that were out
there, like a Choose Fi and other thingsthat were, I guess, popular at the time,
back around, what is that, 2017, 18?
That's when started.
So you're the Choose fi generation.
Yeah.
Yeah, and, and I guess thatthat brings home the point of
(18:27):
don't underestimate the impact.
That you could have on yourkids and your grandkids.
Like Patrick is saying that he, it was hisgrandparents that really influenced him.
And I'm sure they had no idea howit was gonna turn out, but you
were probably paying attentiona lot more than they thought.
And that led you down this road.
I find that very interesting.
Were there any other resources?
(18:48):
I, I find it interesting that it startedwith the board game, but were there any
other resources as in books or podcastsother than Choose Fi, that in growing up
you used to sort of leverage information?
Early on, like anything prior tocollege, I would say the only thing
would be boy Scouts has a requirementfor personal management as one of the,
the merit badges, and that is both time.
(19:10):
And money that's a requiredmerit badge for Eagle Scouts.
Still, I think to this day postcollege time, I don't really think so.
They would all be, you know,choose FI related or adjacent.
We can talk about, I use ChrisManila's post on how to, on how to
choose kind of a CFP curriculum andwhether or not it's even worth it.
(19:32):
Things like that.
But.
It's all adjacent, I would say.
Okay.
And Chris Mamula has been onthe show and he's one of the
authors of the Choose Fi book.
I think it was Your Blueprint to FinancialFreedom or some, I know the book is blue.
So so yeah, he has a lot of really goodthings to say and definitely one of those
PHI people that's been around for a while.
(19:54):
Well, it goes to show youhow important a mentor is.
I remember Fritz Gilbert, who was alsoon the show, went to his first job
and his immediate director boss tookhim aside and said, max out your 401k.
He was like, what's a 401k?
But all, all he had to do wasmax it out and he did that
and he retired in his fifties.
It is not rocket science and itsounds like you, somebody whispered
(20:16):
in your ear, you know, max out yourretirement accounts and you've got your
cashflow waterfall cooking early on.
I'm just constantly impressed.
my kids aren't much younger thanyou, and because of my own lack
of mentorship, I would say thatthey're, financially a decade behind.
I think it's kind of two parts though.
(20:36):
It's you need to provide thatthread for them to go down, but
they also have to be interested too.
You can't just do everything for them.
Right.
Yeah, you can't be lecture Daddy
Bill said his kids usedto call him lecture Daddy.
I'm like, yeah, I know.
I see why.
(20:58):
So we talked a lot about, the impressionsthat your grandparents had on you
growing up, but then you got into,college and your professional career.
Any big takeaways during that timeor anyone that really hadn't made an
impression on you through those years?
Probably my direct manager.
He was really a a strong intrapreneur.
(21:21):
So he's not the owner of thecompany, but he is doing what
he can to grow the company.
And he's vital to that sameengineering company to this day.
And I did try tobasically replicate that.
I still take away those lessons whenI moved over to financial planning,
(21:42):
I would say I'm still working.
What can we improve?
What can I do to makemy owners, life easier?
What can I do to improve theprocesses that we have now?
And I hope that they find that valuable.
I'm sure they do.
Well, that's
continuous quality improvement.
A lean philosophy.
How can we make it more efficientand how can we make it better?
(22:04):
How can we make itbetter for the end user?
And the end user here is like me,somebody that doesn't necessarily know
much about finances, needs a coach,needs a mentor, needs a professional
coach and mentor to help them.
Realize a fire journey or a valuablebalanced life that isn't too skewed
towards deprivation or overabundancethe like I was with regards to a
(22:28):
paycheck to paycheck lifestyle.
Do you find it hard talking toclients to help define their goals?
Luckily, I don't have to leadmost of those conversations.
I kind of take the backseat and watchmy planners do a lot of the work,
and they have significant amounts oftraining from either life planning or
(22:49):
just years and years of experience.
One of them is, a charteredfinancial analyst.
So she really knows her stuff oninvestments and even though she
no longer kind of uses those on aday-to-day basis, we, we do have a more
simplified approach for most clients now.
I think having the confidencefrom those years of experience is
(23:11):
something that just takes time and Iget to at least be in those meetings
watching how it's done, I guess.
So Patrick.
What, what are some of your goals?
I mean, obviously you're in this careertransition and, and do I have the split?
Right.
So part of your time, you're stillworking for the engineering firm
(23:31):
and part of your time you're workingfor the financial planning firm.
You have that right.
And I, I'd say right now it's less, lessthan 50 50, meaning I'm doing a lot more
work on financial planning at this point.
And I think eventually that willprobably, go towards a hundred percent.
I'm not entirely entirely sure what my ownkind of goals are at this point in time.
(23:54):
But I'm having a lot of fun.
so I think that's what's important.
It is, you have learned at least that muchfrom the the kinder style life planning.
You know, you gotta have your fun.
I. So what are some of thosefun things that you do?
I did, I hear right that you were abadminton co well you played badminton
yourself in high school and now you coach.
(24:16):
Yeah, so I think my favoritesport is actually ice hockey, and
I'm a big San Jose Sharks fan.
That's the local team herehave been since I was.
Well since as long as I canremember, I actually don't remember
not being able to ice skate.
So I've always just known that basically.
But that is one of the mostexpensive sports and eventually I
had to kind of drop that as a kid.
(24:38):
So a lot of my friends, I had in the highschool time right when I was moving from
the middle school to high school, said,Hey, come join this badminton thing.
And I was like, what the heck is that?
And you know, it's a lot of fun.
And at the, at the high schoollevel, it's actually free.
So I've been doing that since I sincebasically the start of high school.
And when I graduated college, theprevious coach asked, Hey, can you.
(25:01):
Come help me out at your old team.
And now I've just been the coach therefor the last, I guess, eight years or so.
But yeah, that's a lot of fun as well.
So I'll, play a little bit, butmostly I play roller hockey.
Now the times are a little bit better.
But I'll coach for badminton 'causethere's not, not a whole lot of people
that actually know what they're doing whenit comes to, when it comes to badminton.
(25:24):
Okay, so on the first catchingup to FI Meetup, we will get
badminton lessons from Patrick.
Right?
That'll be our activity becauseI don't know what I'm doing when
I'm playing badminton for sure.
I mean, there's not so much differencebetween coaching badminton probably
and coaching a financial team.
And the, the coaching skill, much likeyou, Jackie, have found as a financial
(25:46):
educator is how to bring the bestin the people you're talking to out.
The answers are all there, but youjust have to help them find them and
not tell them what the answers are.
Right.
Yeah.
That's true.
That's true.
So Patrick, you are currently servingon the Financial Planning Association,
(26:07):
next Gen Leadership Committee.
That's kind of a new role, right?
So tell us about this committee andwhat your role is on this committee.
I.
Yeah, so.
I serve on the local leader team.
What we'll do is make sure that thelocal FPA chapters, if they want to
start a next gen community within theirchapter, you know how to support the next
(26:29):
generation of financial planners, thatthey have resources available to them.
And it's kind of emerging rightnow, but I'm also the only career
changer they'd like to callhim on the national committee.
And so we're working to seehow we can also support.
The career changer as well.
I think there's a lot of need outthere and you're seeing a lot of people
(26:54):
retire both around the US in everyindustry, but also within financial
planning, and that is going to bepretty challenging, I would say, over
the next however many, 10, 15 years.
Yeah, they are retiring out or dyingout, and I feel like this area, this
next gen effort is just so criticalbecause I see so many changes happening
(27:17):
in the financial planning industry,like the assets under management model.
We know that that isstill the most common.
Compensation model, and there'scertainly a space for it, but the
investment part is no longer thebiggest piece of financial planning.
You've got taxes, you've gotinsurance, you've got retirement.
You've got all these other thingsthat now are in the forefront.
(27:42):
So the model that was there 20 yearsago, I mean, the next generation
of financial planners has got to befocusing on something different, and
that's why I've chosen to do that.
You know, Cody Garrett,he's been on the show.
We've had many other CFP professionalsand financial planners that are.
Approaching things quite differently.
So what financial planning lookedlike 20 years ago is not how it's
(28:06):
gonna look like going forward.
So you guys have a big task and Ithink a very much needed you know
committee that's working on this.
Yeah.
Just for, for fulltransparency, my firm does both.
We'll have the option of doingeither flat fee or the, the
a UI model, and I've kind of.
Out to see how both can be effective.
There are a few clients that arenot part of this community, not
(28:29):
oriented that way, that they will notclick the button if you, no matter
what you do, sit down with them.
They will not do it even ifit's in their best interest.
So yeah, that, that can bechallenging if you don't have
discretionary authority basically.
right.
Well,
it is.
It is hard to move many zeroesof money from one place to the
(28:50):
think about your mom, bill.
Yeah, exactly.
No, she has a financial advisor andshe should have a financial advisor.
She needed somebody to takecare of her because it was
not in her bandwidth to do so.
And I support that.
It doesn't really matter what shepays them because it makes her
feel safe and secure and that'sjust the way it needs to be.
She doesn't focus on that.
(29:11):
It just some paternalistic.
Influence that her advisor has,you know, that helps her feel
that she's got her money covered.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, it's a sleep factor.
You know, we could optimize, optimize,optimize and you can pay off your
mortgage or you can leverage that money.
And she just chooses and sheinvests in all individual bonds.
(29:32):
She doesn't take on any,any stock market risk.
And she's double the size of portfolioin 15 years doing it that way.
So more power to her.
She is a very conservativeinvestor who, who needs an advisor?
And I applaud her because as a latestarter, the best gift she gave her
(29:52):
family was her own financial independence.
Yeah, and thank you forbringing that up, Patrick.
I think one, one of the biggest thingsthat I learned and had to correct my,
opinion on was, these compensation models.
I pretty much thought thatthe assets under management
that made sense for no one.
And after being a part of the industryand seeing so many different people,
(30:14):
not everyone is a do it yourselfer.
I. Some people really do want someoneelse to manage their investments.
So now my opinion is that, be clearon what you're looking for and be
clear about what you're paying.
It's like if you are paying based on thesize of your assets, at least know what
that, the dollar amount version that is.
And I will encourage people to look attheir statement and just be transparent.
(30:39):
for the planner to be transparentand make sure your clients
understand what they're paying.
And when I'm talking to people, I want,if, if they want someone to manage their
investments, that's fine, but I want towalk them through, okay, let's see what
you're paying, just so that you're aware,this is another expense that you have.
So so I kind of had to take asecond look at that and realize that
everybody is not a do it yourselfer.
(31:01):
And that is obviously the mostcommon model that's out there.
So how can you best embrace it ifyou're the type of person that wants
someone to manage your investments?
I mean, Patrick mentionedclicking the button.
I remember talking to my sister andshe had some money that was sitting
in cash and she was looking afterlistening to, Jeremy, our friend
at personal finance Club about lumpsum versus dollar cost averaging.
(31:23):
And she was wanting to lump sum a sixfigure amount into a taxable brokerage.
And she literally had to have somebodyhelp her click the button because, as
you know, it can go down the next dayand you've gotta have a long term view.
But moving your own money andespecially when there's several zeros
involved, can be anxiety provokingand that's, emotions are a big part
of what we have to manage or financialadvisors have to help others manage.
(31:46):
Right.
Yeah.
that's right.
Yeah.
So Patrick, you talked alot about your grandparents.
Let's talk a little bit about yourparents, 'cause obviously that's where you
probably spent the most time with growingup, so how would you characterize them
in terms of what you were learning aboutmoney and maybe how they approached money?
(32:07):
Oh, that's a tough one.
Uh,
Yeah, I don't
want you to get your parents in troubleor nothing like that, but you know,
one thing that stick with me that youalready said was that the ice hockey.
Was very expensive and it's oneof the most expensive sports.
And you were in middle schoolat this point, is that right?
(32:28):
Yeah, so I had kind of tried totransition to roller hockey a couple
times but it's just not the same.
Ice hockey.
Yeah.
You have all the equipment.
I. Facilities itself.
You got your parents waking up atfive 30 in the morning to go to
these practices and things like that.
Yeah, and just when you haveto support two households now,
(32:52):
basically instead of one you can,you don't really even need numbers
to know that that is more difficult.
When I was, I attended like privatepreschool even, I. And then, you
know, a few more years roll around,there's a couple more kids in the
situation by that time it justbecomes a lot more challenging.
(33:13):
I mentioned my mom went back to schoolto get her teaching credential and
so yeah, she's been a teacher for thelast, I would say around 10, 12 years.
And.
Working towards that retirementherself, seeing a lot of her friends
retire themselves too, has kind ofstarted getting her mind towards that.
And what do I need to do to prepare?
(33:35):
And I would say, you just gottastart That's bill mentions some
of those challenging things.
It is hard for some people to start.
It is not.
These steps may be simple, butthat doesn't mean that it's easy.
So Patrick, so how old wereyou when your parents divorced?
I was eight.
Okay, so did you notice differencesin the two different household?
(33:56):
Like times, you know, going back toRobert Kiyosaki, the differences in
the time and the lifestyle that youhad when you were with your mom versus
the time that you was in your dad'shousehold and your lifestyle there.
Was it pretty much the same or.
I think it was similar.
I don't think it was the same.
My mom didn't have.
(34:18):
Well, a lot of this I'm assumingtoo, from 'cause they're not
gonna share all those details fromtheir, their agreement with me.
But my assumption is that beinga stay at home mom before that
point that she was receiving a.
Some sort of child support at that point.
And so I think at that time she waspretty motivated to go back and get her
(34:40):
own income and probably lived a littlebit more modestly than, than my dad on
the other hand, who was now not free.
But you know, he was a and still isa, a high earning engineer or, or
really engineering manager at thispoint, or, or even beyond that point.
But not having the asset ofthe house anymore changes that,
(35:04):
Um, okay, so you're asecond generation engineer.
Your dad was an engineer.
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah, I just always find it veryinteresting 'cause me as a mom and
I'm sure bill you as a dad, I wonderwhat financial things and otherwise
stuck with my daughter and what didn't.
And a lot of times, you know,now that she's a little bit
(35:25):
younger than you Patrick, but.
At her age now, she will give mefeedback and she will share the
things that did stick with her.
And most of the time it was not thethings I told her verbally, but it
was the things that she watched me do.
And sometimes it kind of surprisesme what actually, stuck with
her and that resonated with her.
(35:47):
So I was just curious, if therewere things that your parents and I
guess you're at the point now where.
You could possibly help them.
Do they realize what afinancial prodigy they have now
I, I don't think they've quiteunderstood like the requirements.
Basically of the transition.
I think they would stillneed some education there.
(36:09):
But yeah, as far as things that stuckout to me, I think it's still back to
my grandfather having like the matchingkind of thing is something that really
stuck out to me and I've seen that be mostsuccessful is like having someone else
that has skin in the game with you canbe a more powerful experience I think.
(36:30):
Wow.
Well, Patrick, I wanna knowhow you landed with us.
You need experience hours.
You're motivated by the late startercalling because of your parents, and
you're taking on for us very generously.
Something that's very new to you too.
Trying to put together a littlenewsletter to increase the
engagement with our audience.
(36:50):
What brought you here and what kindof ideas and goals do you have for it?
Well, really it's, just Jackie.
She's just the best.
Oh, look at you.
Not to make bill feel bad or anything,but yeah, di Thank you, Patrick.
No, even, I don't even know why, buteven before Jackie was a co-host, I was
(37:12):
interested in listening at least, what,what does it take for a late starter to
get going and be successful, whateverthat version of success looks like.
'cause if you're starting very, verylate, it is gonna look different
than however you want to define it,your 10 to 15 year journey, right?
You are gonna have tomake some adjustments.
(37:33):
And so I wanna learn.
What those types of things are.
And then once I do learn that, I wantto share that with your community.
Yeah.
And, and we appreciate that.
I know initially I just wanted tohave some kind of trait to say,
Hey, we can give you experiencehours, because I learned that as
far as CFP experience hours that.
It doesn't just have to beone-on-one financial planning.
(37:53):
It could be financial education,content creation things like that.
So that's where the marriagekind of came together.
So Patrick, you will be a huge value tothe team because Bill sucks at technology.
No, I'm just kidding.
I'm just kidding.
He follows directions.
Good.
But we are thrilled to haveyou on the team because you
(38:16):
come with a different lens.
You come from a different perspective andyou have already pointed out many, many
things that we never even thought about.
So Patrick is going to help usjust up our game a little bit.
We wanted to do a newsletter for avery long time, and we just didn't have
the bandwidth, but the relationshipthat we have with our listeners and
(38:37):
our Facebook community, and if youhaven't joined the Facebook community,
we're up to about 17,000 come join us.
A lot of great conversations going onin there, but we're thinking how else
can we touch and help and build therelationship with our, well, I almost
like to call them clients, but ourlisteners and our community and.
(38:57):
The newsletter's a big deal, and thenwe will be looking at some other ways
that we can provide content, yourknowledge as a going for your CFP.
There's a lot of knowledge that we gainand I gained a lot of it, even besides
the CFP exam, but I'm sure you knowsoon enough, you'll, you'll be official.
And I hate that you have to wait allthis time before, but it is a rigorous.
(39:19):
Process to become a CFP.
So we are honored that, youknow, we have another person
with the expertise that you have.
so welcome to catching up to FI.
Thank you for having me.
Yeah, I mean, it's interesting thatwe can have so many different gener.
Interested in what latestarting is all about.
Patrick's in, in, in his early thirties.
Jackie's in her middle of her life.
(39:42):
I'm in the end of my life
No, no Bill is gonna be around untilhe's 150, so you're not going anywhere.
But having the mixing of the generations
is very
all in, we're all involved in thisconcept of late starting it's a
psychological concept that 30 somethingscan have, 40 somethings can have and
50 something, 60 somethings can have.
(40:03):
And we all want to be more financiallysecure at a minimum, if not able to,
you know, work through that 10 to15 year runway to financial freedom.
So we're very excited to havePatrick on board with the team.
He wanted to take a momentto introduce him to you.
So, reach out to us through the website.
We're working on this behind thescenes, and we look forward to
(40:26):
posting content and summaries.
Sign up for the newsletter so that whenwe we're ready to launch that you can get
the content coming your way and we can.
Escalate this to anotherlevel of communication where
it becomes more personal.
We have the podcast whereit's a one-way conversation.
We have the Facebook communitywhere it, it can be two ways, and
(40:47):
the newsletter is more a, a way tointeract with us and then ultimately
with each other at a different level.
With Con some people arereaders, right, Jackie?
Some people are listenersand some people are watchers.
I like to watch No, just kidding.
No, you love to read.
Look at all those booksyou got in the background.
You're the reader,
But at any rate Patrick, welcome.
Thank you for joining us today.
(41:08):
To introduce you and guys, Iguess we'll see you next week
on Catching Up to FI, right?
It was about seven, eight years I wasmanufacturing, engineering, and I. I
would say probably around last summer,or actually it was 2023, summer, I
started looking into other careers.
I, I kind of realized I was probably ata minimum level of CoastFI and I just
(00:22):
started looking at what was out there.
Could I actually have a career that washelping people with their finances and.
I think originally I wouldn't, ifI had, been looking that direction
when I was choosing colleges anda major and everything, I actually
don't think I would've picked it.
Because, and that has to do with some ofthe changes that CFP board has actually
(00:44):
made over the last five to 10 years.
my grandfather on my mom's side.
We used to play kind of a boardgame that was from he's a little
controversial now, Robert Kiyosaki.
But anyway, it's, called Cashflowand it's like a little, almost
like a monopoly type game and.
He even had like a little matching programwith me where he would invest and stuff.
(01:09):
And I did that completelyseparate from my parents.
And then after college he hadpassed away by that point.
And so I kind of figured, okay, wellI. Now it's kind of on me to continue
that education moving forward.
And so when I got that very first job, Ilooked to those resources that were out
(01:30):
there, like a Choose Fi and other thingsthat were, I guess, popular at the time,
(02:04):
Hello, and welcome backto Catching Up to FI.
I am Bill Yount with mybeautiful, young, and vibrant
co-host, Jackie Cummings Koski.
coming to you today recording on thefirst day of Financial Literacy Month.
We're very excited because by now, afterthis airs, you'll have heard Paul Merriman
tell us all about Financial LiteracyMonth, and we're just excited to celebrate
(02:24):
all month long in April with you.
How are you doing, Jackie?
I am doing great.
You call me young, but you know what?
We got a new teammate that has uprootedme as a young person on the team, and
we are talking with him today, Patrick.
Hey, how you doing?
Patrick McDonald.
He is a newly minted CFP candidate.
(02:45):
He just passed his exam.
We should probably hear aboutthat because it's a lot harder
than I thought it would be.
And I come from the med school domainand man, I was like, they actually do.
Test these people.
Patrick, how are you doing today?
You're out there on the Bay Area andwe're over here on the East Coast.
We just saw you for, I met youfor the first time at Economy.
That conference, we keep hammering home.
(03:07):
That is the place to be inCincinnati in March, and so come
with us next year to economy.
But Patrick, it was really nicemeeting you, hanging out with you,
getting to know you, and we're excitedto have you on the show because
you're our newest teammate, right?
Yeah.
I'll be working on the newsletter.
I think we.
We'll have the video out forthat soon from you and Jackie
(03:30):
and I will kind of clarify.
On the CFP exam, the actual finalresults aren't out for a couple
more weeks, but they rarelyoverturn the preliminary passes.
As I understand, it's mostly thepreliminary fails that get reviewed,
and rarely some of those questionsare deemed not appropriate.
(03:50):
And so those turn into official passes.
Instead,
You mentioned that, what isthe past rate of this exam?
I mean, do they weed people out on this?
What, what percentage of peopleactually passed the first time?
you can actually go through backyears and years, but it centers
somewhere around 60% pass rate.
Yeah, pretty, pretty low pass rate.
And you know so since everybodydoesn't pass the first time, some
(04:13):
people would take it multipletimes and the pass rate goes down.
The more times that you take it.
So Patrick is right.
When we go through the CFP program,they stress to us the terminology
that you can and cannot use.
So officially, Patrick is a CFP candidate.
When you pass the exam, it's technicallyyou find out the day that you take
(04:34):
the exam, but it's preliminary andI think in about six weeks, 'cause
I went through this whole processand it was so nerve wracking.
So he's got about six weeksbefore he gets the official,
official to say, Hey, you passed.
But I think the bottom line is, it's avery difficult exam, 170 questions, seven
hours, and you spend, years preparingfor it, including getting your experience
(04:58):
hours so it is not to be taken lightly.
So we're excited to have you onour team and we were cheering
for you and we already knewPatrick, that you were gonna pass.
So when we got together, I'm like, bill,we need to record a message for Patrick.
We know that he's not taking it until nextweek, but we know that he is gonna pass.
So we knew that you were gonna pass,and you of course, are stuffed with
a ton of knowledge as you do that.
(05:19):
But Patrick, you are alsocurrently working for a,
financial planning firm, right?
That's right.
I've been an intern at a financialplanning firm for about a
year now, part-time, and yeah,I've been having a lot of fun.
We've mentioned two of the, orthree of the four E's from CFP,
which are the experience, theexam, and the education portion.
(05:44):
But yeah, I, I will need another 4,000hours or so of CFP experience before
I can actually use that designation,even after those results come out.
Yeah.
And then that's a good time to mention, sohow we even connected with you right now.
I know, so if you go to YouTube,you look at Patrick, you're gonna
say, is he even outta high school?
(06:04):
Patrick looks very, very young.
Kind of like my daughter.
My daughter, when she puts her hairin ponytails, people think she's 16.
But Patrick is actually, has beena working professional for over a
decade in the field of engineering.
So, how on earth did you move fromengineering to financial planning?
Well, not quite a decade.
It was about seven, eight years I wasmanufacturing, engineering, and I. I
(06:30):
would say probably around last summer,or actually it was 2023, summer, I
started looking into other careers.
I, I kind of realized I was probably ata minimum level of CoastFI and I just
started looking at what was out there.
Could I actually have a career that washelping people with their finances and.
(06:52):
I think originally I wouldn't, ifI had, been looking that direction
when I was choosing colleges anda major and everything, I actually
don't think I would've picked it.
Because, and that has to do with some ofthe changes that CFP board has actually
made over the last five to 10 years.
And that is a requirement forfiduciary duty for anything
(07:13):
at financial advice or higher.
And we can go into thosedetails if you want, but.
Those changes to CFP Board, Iwould say, is what solidified my
wanting to pursue it as a career.
I want the ethics commitment, I wantthe standard kind of that is set
(07:34):
by them to at least be a guiding, astarting place, if you will for the
level of competence that I'm aiming for.
It seems like, you know, you've been,interested in money for a long time
because when I talked to you, not onlydid you know about what CF Ping was about,
but you knew what life planning was about,and we're about to have George Kinder on,
can you wet our appetites a little bit?
(07:55):
'cause somebody your age say, adecade into your professional career.
Knows about things that a 5060-year-old I might be the
oldest CFB board certificate.
You never know.
One day I might do it, but for you,I found your knowledge as one of a
much more mature person in the space.
How did that happen?
(08:15):
Yeah, so there's two thingsI want to hit on there.
The first thing is that I got a lot of myearly financial education, if you will,
from one of my grandparents, and that cameprimarily after my parents got divorced.
I was around eight at the time.
And life just kind ofshifted from that point.
You know, you have to go totwo different households.
You do the Christmas and the summer thing.
(08:38):
Life just looks a little bit different.
Then just briefly, because I,I want to talk about the George
Kinder thing for a second.
That is actually how I found my firmthat I'm at, is they have a focus on
life planning and also people thatwant to move kind of internationally
specifically Europe is the mainone, they'll help people kind of
get situated elsewhere as well.
(09:00):
Well, you know, I, I'm findingit very interesting that divorce
and, things in life that happen.
It's kind of cool to seeit through your lens.
Like, we have a lot of divorced people.
I'm a divorced person, but my experienceand our experience as an adult, you
know, in the situation, a parentin the situation is very different
(09:20):
than the child in the situation.
So it's kind of cool to hearwhat you have to say about that.
you said so you found your firm throughdoing your research about George
Kinder and they operate similarly.
yeah.
Really what it is is XY PlanningNetwork is the, is a main company that
(09:43):
that sets up the fee only RIA A. Sothat, that is, I. Anyone that doesn't
sell for a commission, you would saythat does include the a OM model.
And within their search engine, ifyou will, they have different filters.
And one of them is for life planning.
Yeah, we're gonna talk to GeorgeKinder about the kinder questions
(10:03):
because you know, if you take financialplanning to sort of the holistic
level which Patrick is interested indoing, you're really looking at how
to help people be their best person.
And live their best life.
You know, their goals, dreams,and values, and then you use
money as a tool to get there.
And it isn't just aboutrunning the numbers right.
(10:23):
Definitely I'm out here in the BayArea, like you said, and I do see a
lot of those I guess highly compensatedemployees that are working on that
work life balance, if you will.
And when is enough, right.
What do you mean by one is enough?
Well, you could say that, we willrun that Monte Carlo simulation
(10:45):
and if it says a hundred percent,you have effectively won the game.
At that point,
One is enough you know, with highlycompensated employees like that, are
they thinking that, my end is one,meaning I just need to get my life right.
I.
It's a hard question to answer, I think'cause it's different for everyone.
(11:06):
You want to be living your bestlife and you really need to
define what that is for you.
You want to be spendingtime with your family.
You want to be pursuingmastery of something.
There's so many different ways toanswer that for an individual person.
Yeah, I mean, and then againyou're barely 30 and you're
(11:27):
thinking like somebody my age.
you're so far ahead of the game with bothfinancial knowledge and life knowledge.
I feel like I was just swimming in asea of messiness when I was growing up.
You seem very focused.
And defined on your goals, is thatthe natural spirit of an engineer
(11:47):
or what led you to be so laserfocused on, helping people with their
financial lives and their goals?
It will go back to my parents.
I consider both of 'em to be latestarters as a result of kind of
restarting, if you will, from the divorce.
Yeah, one of them had to go back.
(12:08):
My mom had to go back to schooland everything and become, she's
actually a teacher for kindergarten.
And my dad ended up having to,lose ownership of the house
and he kind of had to restart.
And in that way, if you will.
What was it like for them to realizethat they were late starters?
What age did they wake up and whatwas it like for you to see the
(12:30):
financial struggles in your parents?
Age waking up.
That's a tough one.
I would say some, in someways they're still waking up.
I think the high cost of living in theBay Area I. Even the last few years
everywhere I've seen it skyrocket.
I would say and they're getting closerto that quote unquote retirement age,
(12:52):
and you start asking those questionslike, can I afford to keep living here?
Can I, take care ofloved ones if I want to.
And yeah, I'm, I'm not really surequite how to answer that age question.
But yeah, I think it'sa continuous process.
well, and I wanna say this, so a littlebit before you talked about how you had
(13:16):
been in your engineering career for aboutseven or eight years, and you got to the
point where you were pretty much CoastFI.
Okay.
That's a big statement.
You only had been working for about sevenor eight years and you reached CoastFI.
So how did you do that?
Because when I first talked to youand, and how did we first meet Patrick?
(13:37):
first met at FPA Gathering,
so financial planning association.
Okay.
So they have their community within that.
That's for the next generation planners,pretty much defined as within the first
I would say 10 years of their career.
And so that can be your student right?
Outta college or that canbe someone like me that's
(13:57):
changing
careers over, yeah.
like both of us, that's changing
both of
us.
Yeah.
And so you were given a presentationat Gathering, which is their
annual event, and I was going,wait, that's that's Jackie.
She's the, the Hs.
A expert.
Yeah.
And, the presentationwas not even on HSAs.
And it was my professor, Dr. McCoy,who I love from Kansas State,
(14:18):
she asked me to present with her.
And she's my favorite professorbecause she certainly did not
need me to present on that topic.
So that is how we met.
And did I tell you about economywhen we were chatting and that's
how you ended up at economy?
That's right.
Yeah.
I, I had never gone to economy or anyother FI oriented event before that
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I remember thinking when you'retelling me, okay, at the time you're
(14:43):
in your late twenties and you weresaying that you wanted to move into
financial planning, you had alreadysigned up for a review program.
And I'm thinking, oh,this kid is kind of young.
Like, does he know what he's doing?
And I asked her, I said, well.
Do you have a way to supportyourself as you make this transition?
He could says, yeah, I alreadygot all that lined up and like
you had it, so I was blown away.
(15:05):
So, so yeah.
How did you get to the point where youwere Coast FI after only working for
seven or eight years in the Bay Area?
I don't really know howto answer that one either.
Keeping expenses low whenyou get those raises.
Try to direct a significantportion towards savings.
And then, you know, I'mstill single at this point.
(15:28):
I don't have a family to support.
I'm a renter.
I do not have the burden of homeownership in the Bay Area that others do.
Okay.
I was gonna ask you about the homeownership, so I'm just curious,
what do rents run in the Bay Area?
Is it a two bedroom?
One bedroom?
I.
I'm getting a deal from my,one of my relatives here.
(15:49):
But I would say anywhere,anywhere around the 2000 to 3,500
range, depending on that size.
And, and what you're looking for ispretty normal, and I think you can easily
find one once up from up from there.
Wow, that, I mean that, that's just crazy.
So if I hear you correctly, you'resaying you kept your expenses low.
(16:14):
You were taking your raisesand you were investing those.
Were you just investing in your 401k?
Were you doing a brokerage account?
Yeah.
At the time I was doing,I would say all four.
I was doing my 401k, Iwas doing a Roth IRA.
And I was doing after tax brokerage,and then I didn't even take your HSA
(16:35):
advice for, you know, several years in.
But I started doing that aswell and my company actually
gave a small match for not match
just a contribution towards that as well.
So did you just
have financial, genetic makeup like this?
Was it your parents' financial lackof acumen that got you involved?
I'm trying to understand how youknew what these things were, not
(16:58):
only knew what they were, but able toleverage them into your own financial.
Wherewithal to become CoastFI in your late twenties.
I, I wasn't even.
On the map of thinking aboutmoney in my late twenties.
So where did that come from for you?
You are next gen. You're our nextgen CFP, personal finance leader.
You are who we want to haveas our advisors going forward.
(17:21):
How did you get there?
What were the things earlierin your upbringing that led
you to become so voraciouslyinterested in this information?
It was mostly my grandfatheron my mom's side.
We used to play kind of a boardgame that was from he's a little
controversial now, Robert Kiyosaki.
But anyway, it's, called Cashflowand it's like a little, almost
(17:42):
like a monopoly type game and.
He even had like a little matching programwith me where he would invest and stuff.
And I did that completelyseparate from my parents.
And then after college he hadpassed away by that point.
And so I kind of figured, okay, wellI. Now it's kind of on me to continue
(18:04):
that education moving forward.
And so when I got that very first job, Ilooked to those resources that were out
there, like a Choose Fi and other thingsthat were, I guess, popular at the time,
back around, what is that, 2017, 18?
That's when started.
So you're the Choose fi generation.
Yeah.
Yeah, and, and I guess thatthat brings home the point of
(18:27):
don't underestimate the impact.
That you could have on yourkids and your grandkids.
Like Patrick is saying that he, it was hisgrandparents that really influenced him.
And I'm sure they had no idea howit was gonna turn out, but you
were probably paying attentiona lot more than they thought.
And that led you down this road.
I find that very interesting.
Were there any other resources?
(18:48):
I, I find it interesting that it startedwith the board game, but were there any
other resources as in books or podcastsother than Choose Fi, that in growing up
you used to sort of leverage information?
Early on, like anything prior tocollege, I would say the only thing
would be boy Scouts has a requirementfor personal management as one of the,
the merit badges, and that is both time.
(19:10):
And money that's a requiredmerit badge for Eagle Scouts.
Still, I think to this day postcollege time, I don't really think so.
They would all be, you know,choose FI related or adjacent.
We can talk about, I use ChrisManila's post on how to, on how to
choose kind of a CFP curriculum andwhether or not it's even worth it.
(19:32):
Things like that.
But.
It's all adjacent, I would say.
Okay.
And Chris Mamula has been onthe show and he's one of the
authors of the Choose Fi book.
I think it was Your Blueprint to FinancialFreedom or some, I know the book is blue.
So so yeah, he has a lot of really goodthings to say and definitely one of those
PHI people that's been around for a while.
(19:54):
Well, it goes to show youhow important a mentor is.
I remember Fritz Gilbert, who was alsoon the show, went to his first job
and his immediate director boss tookhim aside and said, max out your 401k.
He was like, what's a 401k?
But all, all he had to do wasmax it out and he did that
and he retired in his fifties.
It is not rocket science and itsounds like you, somebody whispered
(20:16):
in your ear, you know, max out yourretirement accounts and you've got your
cashflow waterfall cooking early on.
I'm just constantly impressed.
my kids aren't much younger thanyou, and because of my own lack
of mentorship, I would say thatthey're, financially a decade behind.
I think it's kind of two parts though.
(20:36):
It's you need to provide thatthread for them to go down, but
they also have to be interested too.
You can't just do everything for them.
Right.
Yeah, you can't be lecture Daddy
Bill said his kids usedto call him lecture Daddy.
I'm like, yeah, I know.
I see why.
(20:58):
So we talked a lot about, the impressionsthat your grandparents had on you
growing up, but then you got into,college and your professional career.
Any big takeaways during that timeor anyone that really hadn't made an
impression on you through those years?
Probably my direct manager.
He was really a a strong intrapreneur.
(21:21):
So he's not the owner of thecompany, but he is doing what
he can to grow the company.
And he's vital to that sameengineering company to this day.
And I did try tobasically replicate that.
I still take away those lessons whenI moved over to financial planning,
(21:42):
I would say I'm still working.
What can we improve?
What can I do to makemy owners, life easier?
What can I do to improve theprocesses that we have now?
And I hope that they find that valuable.
I'm sure they do.
Well, that's
continuous quality improvement.
A lean philosophy.
How can we make it more efficientand how can we make it better?
(22:04):
How can we make itbetter for the end user?
And the end user here is like me,somebody that doesn't necessarily know
much about finances, needs a coach,needs a mentor, needs a professional
coach and mentor to help them.
Realize a fire journey or a valuablebalanced life that isn't too skewed
towards deprivation or overabundancethe like I was with regards to a
(22:28):
paycheck to paycheck lifestyle.
Do you find it hard talking toclients to help define their goals?
Luckily, I don't have to leadmost of those conversations.
I kind of take the backseat and watchmy planners do a lot of the work,
and they have significant amounts oftraining from either life planning or
(22:49):
just years and years of experience.
One of them is, a charteredfinancial analyst.
So she really knows her stuff oninvestments and even though she
no longer kind of uses those on aday-to-day basis, we, we do have a more
simplified approach for most clients now.
I think having the confidencefrom those years of experience is
(23:11):
something that just takes time and Iget to at least be in those meetings
watching how it's done, I guess.
So Patrick.
What, what are some of your goals?
I mean, obviously you're in this careertransition and, and do I have the split?
Right.
So part of your time, you're stillworking for the engineering firm
(23:31):
and part of your time you're workingfor the financial planning firm.
You have that right.
And I, I'd say right now it's less, lessthan 50 50, meaning I'm doing a lot more
work on financial planning at this point.
And I think eventually that willprobably, go towards a hundred percent.
I'm not entirely entirely sure what my ownkind of goals are at this point in time.
(23:54):
But I'm having a lot of fun.
so I think that's what's important.
It is, you have learned at least that muchfrom the the kinder style life planning.
You know, you gotta have your fun.
I. So what are some of thosefun things that you do?
I did, I hear right that you were abadminton co well you played badminton
yourself in high school and now you coach.
(24:16):
Yeah, so I think my favoritesport is actually ice hockey, and
I'm a big San Jose Sharks fan.
That's the local team herehave been since I was.
Well since as long as I canremember, I actually don't remember
not being able to ice skate.
So I've always just known that basically.
But that is one of the mostexpensive sports and eventually I
had to kind of drop that as a kid.
(24:38):
So a lot of my friends, I had in the highschool time right when I was moving from
the middle school to high school, said,Hey, come join this badminton thing.
And I was like, what the heck is that?
And you know, it's a lot of fun.
And at the, at the high schoollevel, it's actually free.
So I've been doing that since I sincebasically the start of high school.
And when I graduated college, theprevious coach asked, Hey, can you.
(25:01):
Come help me out at your old team.
And now I've just been the coach therefor the last, I guess, eight years or so.
But yeah, that's a lot of fun as well.
So I'll, play a little bit, butmostly I play roller hockey.
Now the times are a little bit better.
But I'll coach for badminton 'causethere's not, not a whole lot of people
that actually know what they're doing whenit comes to, when it comes to badminton.
(25:24):
Okay, so on the first catchingup to FI Meetup, we will get
badminton lessons from Patrick.
Right?
That'll be our activity becauseI don't know what I'm doing when
I'm playing badminton for sure.
I mean, there's not so much differencebetween coaching badminton probably
and coaching a financial team.
And the, the coaching skill, much likeyou, Jackie, have found as a financial
(25:46):
educator is how to bring the bestin the people you're talking to out.
The answers are all there, but youjust have to help them find them and
not tell them what the answers are.
Right.
Yeah.
That's true.
That's true.
So Patrick, you are currently servingon the Financial Planning Association,
(26:07):
next Gen Leadership Committee.
That's kind of a new role, right?
So tell us about this committee andwhat your role is on this committee.
I.
Yeah, so.
I serve on the local leader team.
What we'll do is make sure that thelocal FPA chapters, if they want to
start a next gen community within theirchapter, you know how to support the next
(26:29):
generation of financial planners, thatthey have resources available to them.
And it's kind of emerging rightnow, but I'm also the only career
changer they'd like to callhim on the national committee.
And so we're working to seehow we can also support.
The career changer as well.
I think there's a lot of need outthere and you're seeing a lot of people
(26:54):
retire both around the US in everyindustry, but also within financial
planning, and that is going to bepretty challenging, I would say, over
the next however many, 10, 15 years.
Yeah, they are retiring out or dyingout, and I feel like this area, this
next gen effort is just so criticalbecause I see so many changes happening
(27:17):
in the financial planning industry,like the assets under management model.
We know that that isstill the most common.
Compensation model, and there'scertainly a space for it, but the
investment part is no longer thebiggest piece of financial planning.
You've got taxes, you've gotinsurance, you've got retirement.
You've got all these other thingsthat now are in the forefront.
(27:42):
So the model that was there 20 yearsago, I mean, the next generation
of financial planners has got to befocusing on something different, and
that's why I've chosen to do that.
You know, Cody Garrett,he's been on the show.
We've had many other CFP professionalsand financial planners that are.
Approaching things quite differently.
So what financial planning lookedlike 20 years ago is not how it's
(28:06):
gonna look like going forward.
So you guys have a big task and Ithink a very much needed you know
committee that's working on this.
Yeah.
Just for, for fulltransparency, my firm does both.
We'll have the option of doingeither flat fee or the, the
a UI model, and I've kind of.
Out to see how both can be effective.
There are a few clients that arenot part of this community, not
(28:29):
oriented that way, that they will notclick the button if you, no matter
what you do, sit down with them.
They will not do it even ifit's in their best interest.
So yeah, that, that can bechallenging if you don't have
discretionary authority basically.
right.
Well,
it is.
It is hard to move many zeroesof money from one place to the
(28:50):
think about your mom, bill.
Yeah, exactly.
No, she has a financial advisor andshe should have a financial advisor.
She needed somebody to takecare of her because it was
not in her bandwidth to do so.
And I support that.
It doesn't really matter what shepays them because it makes her
feel safe and secure and that'sjust the way it needs to be.
She doesn't focus on that.
(29:11):
It just some paternalistic.
Influence that her advisor has,you know, that helps her feel
that she's got her money covered.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, it's a sleep factor.
You know, we could optimize, optimize,optimize and you can pay off your
mortgage or you can leverage that money.
And she just chooses and sheinvests in all individual bonds.
(29:32):
She doesn't take on any,any stock market risk.
And she's double the size of portfolioin 15 years doing it that way.
So more power to her.
She is a very conservativeinvestor who, who needs an advisor?
And I applaud her because as a latestarter, the best gift she gave her
(29:52):
family was her own financial independence.
Yeah, and thank you forbringing that up, Patrick.
I think one, one of the biggest thingsthat I learned and had to correct my,
opinion on was, these compensation models.
I pretty much thought thatthe assets under management
that made sense for no one.
And after being a part of the industryand seeing so many different people,
(30:14):
not everyone is a do it yourselfer.
I. Some people really do want someoneelse to manage their investments.
So now my opinion is that, be clearon what you're looking for and be
clear about what you're paying.
It's like if you are paying based on thesize of your assets, at least know what
that, the dollar amount version that is.
And I will encourage people to look attheir statement and just be transparent.
(30:39):
for the planner to be transparentand make sure your clients
understand what they're paying.
And when I'm talking to people, I want,if, if they want someone to manage their
investments, that's fine, but I want towalk them through, okay, let's see what
you're paying, just so that you're aware,this is another expense that you have.
So so I kind of had to take asecond look at that and realize that
everybody is not a do it yourselfer.
(31:01):
And that is obviously the mostcommon model that's out there.
So how can you best embrace it ifyou're the type of person that wants
someone to manage your investments?
I mean, Patrick mentionedclicking the button.
I remember talking to my sister andshe had some money that was sitting
in cash and she was looking afterlistening to, Jeremy, our friend
at personal finance Club about lumpsum versus dollar cost averaging.
(31:23):
And she was wanting to lump sum a sixfigure amount into a taxable brokerage.
And she literally had to have somebodyhelp her click the button because, as
you know, it can go down the next dayand you've gotta have a long term view.
But moving your own money andespecially when there's several zeros
involved, can be anxiety provokingand that's, emotions are a big part
of what we have to manage or financialadvisors have to help others manage.
(31:46):
Right.
Yeah.
that's right.
Yeah.
So Patrick, you talked alot about your grandparents.
Let's talk a little bit about yourparents, 'cause obviously that's where you
probably spent the most time with growingup, so how would you characterize them
in terms of what you were learning aboutmoney and maybe how they approached money?
(32:07):
Oh, that's a tough one.
Uh,
Yeah, I don't
want you to get your parents in troubleor nothing like that, but you know,
one thing that stick with me that youalready said was that the ice hockey.
Was very expensive and it's oneof the most expensive sports.
And you were in middle schoolat this point, is that right?
(32:28):
Yeah, so I had kind of tried totransition to roller hockey a couple
times but it's just not the same.
Ice hockey.
Yeah.
You have all the equipment.
I. Facilities itself.
You got your parents waking up atfive 30 in the morning to go to
these practices and things like that.
Yeah, and just when you haveto support two households now,
(32:52):
basically instead of one you can,you don't really even need numbers
to know that that is more difficult.
When I was, I attended like privatepreschool even, I. And then, you
know, a few more years roll around,there's a couple more kids in the
situation by that time it justbecomes a lot more challenging.
(33:13):
I mentioned my mom went back to schoolto get her teaching credential and
so yeah, she's been a teacher for thelast, I would say around 10, 12 years.
And.
Working towards that retirementherself, seeing a lot of her friends
retire themselves too, has kind ofstarted getting her mind towards that.
And what do I need to do to prepare?
(33:35):
And I would say, you just gottastart That's bill mentions some
of those challenging things.
It is hard for some people to start.
It is not.
These steps may be simple, butthat doesn't mean that it's easy.
So Patrick, so how old wereyou when your parents divorced?
I was eight.
Okay, so did you notice differencesin the two different household?
(33:56):
Like times, you know, going back toRobert Kiyosaki, the differences in
the time and the lifestyle that youhad when you were with your mom versus
the time that you was in your dad'shousehold and your lifestyle there.
Was it pretty much the same or.
I think it was similar.
I don't think it was the same.
My mom didn't have.
(34:18):
Well, a lot of this I'm assumingtoo, from 'cause they're not
gonna share all those details fromtheir, their agreement with me.
But my assumption is that beinga stay at home mom before that
point that she was receiving a.
Some sort of child support at that point.
And so I think at that time she waspretty motivated to go back and get her
(34:40):
own income and probably lived a littlebit more modestly than, than my dad on
the other hand, who was now not free.
But you know, he was a and still isa, a high earning engineer or, or
really engineering manager at thispoint, or, or even beyond that point.
But not having the asset ofthe house anymore changes that,
(35:04):
Um, okay, so you're asecond generation engineer.
Your dad was an engineer.
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah, I just always find it veryinteresting 'cause me as a mom and
I'm sure bill you as a dad, I wonderwhat financial things and otherwise
stuck with my daughter and what didn't.
And a lot of times, you know,now that she's a little bit
(35:25):
younger than you Patrick, but.
At her age now, she will give mefeedback and she will share the
things that did stick with her.
And most of the time it was not thethings I told her verbally, but it
was the things that she watched me do.
And sometimes it kind of surprisesme what actually, stuck with
her and that resonated with her.
(35:47):
So I was just curious, if therewere things that your parents and I
guess you're at the point now where.
You could possibly help them.
Do they realize what afinancial prodigy they have now
I, I don't think they've quiteunderstood like the requirements.
Basically of the transition.
I think they would stillneed some education there.
(36:09):
But yeah, as far as things that stuckout to me, I think it's still back to
my grandfather having like the matchingkind of thing is something that really
stuck out to me and I've seen that be mostsuccessful is like having someone else
that has skin in the game with you canbe a more powerful experience I think.
(36:30):
Wow.
Well, Patrick, I wanna knowhow you landed with us.
You need experience hours.
You're motivated by the late startercalling because of your parents, and
you're taking on for us very generously.
Something that's very new to you too.
Trying to put together a littlenewsletter to increase the
engagement with our audience.
(36:50):
What brought you here and what kindof ideas and goals do you have for it?
Well, really it's, just Jackie.
She's just the best.
Oh, look at you.
Not to make bill feel bad or anything,but yeah, di Thank you, Patrick.
No, even, I don't even know why, buteven before Jackie was a co-host, I was
(37:12):
interested in listening at least, what,what does it take for a late starter to
get going and be successful, whateverthat version of success looks like.
'cause if you're starting very, verylate, it is gonna look different
than however you want to define it,your 10 to 15 year journey, right?
You are gonna have tomake some adjustments.
(37:33):
And so I wanna learn.
What those types of things are.
And then once I do learn that, I wantto share that with your community.
Yeah.
And, and we appreciate that.
I know initially I just wanted tohave some kind of trait to say,
Hey, we can give you experiencehours, because I learned that as
far as CFP experience hours that.
It doesn't just have to beone-on-one financial planning.
(37:53):
It could be financial education,content creation things like that.
So that's where the marriagekind of came together.
So Patrick, you will be a huge value tothe team because Bill sucks at technology.
No, I'm just kidding.
I'm just kidding.
He follows directions.
Good.
But we are thrilled to haveyou on the team because you
(38:16):
come with a different lens.
You come from a different perspective andyou have already pointed out many, many
things that we never even thought about.
So Patrick is going to help usjust up our game a little bit.
We wanted to do a newsletter for avery long time, and we just didn't have
the bandwidth, but the relationshipthat we have with our listeners and
(38:37):
our Facebook community, and if youhaven't joined the Facebook community,
we're up to about 17,000 come join us.
A lot of great conversations going onin there, but we're thinking how else
can we touch and help and build therelationship with our, well, I almost
like to call them clients, but ourlisteners and our community and.
(38:57):
The newsletter's a big deal, and thenwe will be looking at some other ways
that we can provide content, yourknowledge as a going for your CFP.
There's a lot of knowledge that we gainand I gained a lot of it, even besides
the CFP exam, but I'm sure you knowsoon enough, you'll, you'll be official.
And I hate that you have to wait allthis time before, but it is a rigorous.
(39:19):
Process to become a CFP.
So we are honored that, youknow, we have another person
with the expertise that you have.
so welcome to catching up to FI.
Thank you for having me.
Yeah, I mean, it's interesting thatwe can have so many different gener.
Interested in what latestarting is all about.
Patrick's in, in, in his early thirties.
Jackie's in her middle of her life.
(39:42):
I'm in the end of my life
No, no Bill is gonna be around untilhe's 150, so you're not going anywhere.
But having the mixing of the generations
is very
all in, we're all involved in thisconcept of late starting it's a
psychological concept that 30 somethingscan have, 40 somethings can have and
50 something, 60 somethings can have.
(40:03):
And we all want to be more financiallysecure at a minimum, if not able to,
you know, work through that 10 to15 year runway to financial freedom.
So we're very excited to havePatrick on board with the team.
He wanted to take a momentto introduce him to you.
So, reach out to us through the website.
We're working on this behind thescenes, and we look forward to
(40:26):
posting content and summaries.
Sign up for the newsletter so that whenwe we're ready to launch that you can get
the content coming your way and we can.
Escalate this to anotherlevel of communication where
it becomes more personal.
We have the podcast whereit's a one-way conversation.
We have the Facebook communitywhere it, it can be two ways, and
(40:47):
the newsletter is more a, a way tointeract with us and then ultimately
with each other at a different level.
With Con some people arereaders, right, Jackie?
Some people are listenersand some people are watchers.
I like to watch No, just kidding.
No, you love to read.
Look at all those booksyou got in the background.
You're the reader,
But at any rate Patrick, welcome.
Thank you for joining us today.
(41:08):
To introduce you and guys, Iguess we'll see you next week
on Catching Up to FI, right?
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