Vote Your Money: Values Aligned Investing | Janine Firpo | 139 - Catching Up to FI

Episode Transcript
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(00:02):
I took a five month solo backpackingtrip through Sub-Saharan Africa Left I
was in something called the multimediaindustry came back something called the
internet had emerged on the scene andall my friends were running to that new
industry And I had seen Unconscionablepoverty in Africa when I was traveling

(00:23):
and I'd made a decision that I was gonnafigure out how to use my talent and
career to change that And so I didn'tget involved in the.com craze I changed
instead and started working at theintersection of technology and business
thinking to poverty internationally
I heard about impact investing and theidea of putting your money to work for

(00:46):
good and for social return and financialreturn at the same time And even though
I was not a high Netwealth individuallike most of the people virtually
everyone doing that kind of investingin the late 1990s early two thousands
I decided I was gonna try to figure outhow to do that with my own money cause
I'd made such big changes in my career Iwalked away from salary potential riches

(01:10):
and wanted to do something differentand felt my money needed to follow me
the vast majority of us really wannasee when I started doing values aligned
investing impact investing I way peoplewere talking about how to make decisions
in this space were really esoteric It'slike well use your values like integrity

(01:34):
right We've talking about integrity orhonesty or community but these are not
things that you can actually apply toinvesting but the sustainable development
goals are And so they've started tobecome defacto or a framework that
people can use for this kind of investing

(02:24):
Hello and welcome backto Catching Up to FI.
Today the market is crashing a bit.
You know, we've seen it go down intoa correction of about, 10% people
may be getting a little nervous.
And we're recording this in on March 11th.
So,
11th.
March 10th was a really bad day.
Now, by the time this airs, whoknows what the market will be doing?

(02:46):
yeah, but today I tax lost, harvested,and I hope you guys have figured that
out so that you too can take advantageof this hopefully short downturn.
At any rate we're gonna be talkingto somebody who's giving us an uplift
or an upturn Janine Firpo, and I wantJackie to introduce her because this
episode will be a little bit aboutthe power of women in investing.

(03:10):
Yeah.
Well, Janine and I have become friends Ilove her she is an accomplished speaker
author and entrepreneur with a longhistory of working at the intersection of
women and their money from the early yearsof Apple computer to senior positions
with Hewlett Packard the World Bank Billand Melinda Gates Foundation Janine has

(03:31):
always found herself making an impactIn 2017 she left a successful 35 year
career in technology and internationaldevelopment and she did that to focus
on how women can create a more justequitable society through their financial
investments Her book which is rightbehind me called Activate Your Money

(03:54):
invest to Grow Your Wealth and Build ABetter World was published in 2021 through
Wiley Publishing Later that year sheco-founded Invest for Better a nonprofit
organization that is catalyzing a movementin which millions of professional women
are educated enabled Empowered to activatethe power of their money for themselves

(04:19):
and the world Janine walks her talk Sheis taking action to move all her own
assets into investment that she feelsgood about and is watching them grow with
market rate returns She is also a leadinvestor In Next Wave Impact a venture
fund designed to help more women becomeangel investors In 2024 Forbes named

(04:42):
Janine as one of 50 over 50 female leaderswho continued to make an impact later in
life Janine welcome to Catching up to FI
Hi Thank you so much for having me It's
Well, well, don't think I've ever talkedto somebody who's 50 over 50 and they talk
about being senior, but you're not senior.
You're very youthful and veryactive, and we're gonna talk today

(05:06):
about all the great things you'redoing for values assigned investing,
which are values aligned investing,which is really, really exciting.
But before we get going there.
In order to understand you alittle better, I think we need to
understand your journey to thistopic of values aligned investing.
So what was your professionaljourney that led you here because

(05:29):
you've had a wild and crazy ride?
I
I sure have No kidding So I actually I.
fell into the computer industry by a totalaccident in the 1970s believe it or not
and started my professional career in 1981before there were even personal computers
So my tech background goes back topunching cards on mainframe computers and

(05:53):
coding and assembly language programmingand I had an amazing career for 15 years
in the valley worked for Apple Computerin the eighties when it was wildly crazy
to be there And then quit a job in 1995to travel And I took a five month solo
backpacking trip through Sub-SaharanAfrica Left I was in something called the

(06:17):
multimedia industry came back somethingcalled the internet had emerged on the
scene and all my friends were runningto that new industry And I had seen
Unconscionable poverty in Africa whenI was traveling and I'd made a decision
that I was gonna figure out how to use mytalent and career to change that And so

(06:38):
I didn't get involved in the.com craze Ichanged instead and started working at the
intersection of technology and businessthinking to poverty internationally and
had a 20 year career doing that WhileI was doing that I was sort of a social
entrepreneur before that was a term andI heard about impact investing and the

(06:59):
idea of putting your money to work forgood and for social return and financial
return at the same time And even though Iwas not a high Netwealth individual like
most of the people virtually everyonedoing that kind of investing in the late
1990s early two thousands I decided Iwas gonna try to figure out how to do
that with my own money cause I'd madesuch big changes in my career I walked

(07:22):
away from salary potential riches andwanted to do something different and
felt my money needed to follow me So whatI did And I had a variety of financial
advisors that were supposed to help meget where I wanted to be and they didn't
help me So when I retired from my SalaryI realized that's all I really retired

(07:44):
from cause I worked as hard as I everdid in 2017 I took my money back realized
anyone could invest this way regardlessof how much money you had I decided to
help other people do it because it hadbeen such a journey for me And so that's
why I wrote Activate Your Money And as Iwas writing the book I met a woman named
Ellen Remer who lived in Boston and shewas putting women in small groups to

(08:08):
teach them these skills And she and Idecided better to partner than to compete
And so we joined together and foundedInvest for Better in September of 2021
Yeah, I mean that invest for BetterCharity is something we wanna give a
shout out to because we give a shoutout to charities in every episode.
Go to invest for better.org andyou can help out this effort.

(08:32):
Now you remind me actually of, I guesswe had in the past named Vicki Robin.
Oh yeah
She invests accordingto her values as well.
She invests on her island in local farms.
She invests in solar energy.
She invests in small businessand she is also a proponent
of values aligned investing.
So, and she is one of the godmothersof FI, but she doesn't necessarily

(08:56):
follow the principles of fire,and she follows your principles
maybe before they were sexy, right?
Yeah Actually I've talked with her soI heard about her and She, has shifted
away from sort of the fire stuff inthat That's not what she purports
anymore but she's doing a lot I thinkshe's in her eighties and she writes a
Yeah
aging Which is

(09:17):
Mm-hmm
to me And she also writes a lot aboutlocal investing which I think is also
important and I loved her She and Ihad an amazing conversation I got to
know her through FinCon Actually Isomebody at FinCon knew her and was
willing to make the introduction andshe was kind enough to just spend

(09:37):
some time with a completely unknownperson and we had a great conversation
She does.
And this is what we're about.
We vote with our money, right?
I mean, that is a primary vote thatwe have, a power that we have that
we don't necessarily realize we canspend on responsible consumption.
We can save and save where, and wecan invest with whom or on what.

(09:57):
And we can give how and get advice wherethere are so many avenues with which you
vote with your money, not just by proxy onan individual stock, for example, that we
need to look at all these avenues, right
Absolutely In fact I think our investmentdollars are among the most important So
if you think about philanthropy so whatwe're told often is that you should use

(10:22):
part of your money to invest and growas much as you possibly can You wanna
maximize that return and then you do goodthrough your philanthropic dollars But
if you look at all of the philanthropicmoney in the world Depending on who
you're talking to it's between 0.5 to1.5 of the total assets in the world So

(10:46):
the amount of money that actually goesout through philanthropy is teeny teeny
tiny nowhere near enough to solve theproblems that we have in the world And
so our money is doing every dollar thatwe have even the cash that we have in
the bank is having an impact Somebody isusing it for some purpose And if we're not
paying attention to that purpose chancesare we're invested in the things that

(11:11):
we don't wanna see in the world right?
So if you think about it money is reallypower And where money goes The companies
the products the services that we investin those are the companies and the
products And the services we get thecompanies and products and services we
don't invest in are the ones that neverhappen that go away It's not surprising

(11:33):
for example that because women have nottaken control of invest their own money
in this country that we have a dearthof maternal health solutions or that we
have a dearth of products and servicesthat are actually made for women or that
we have situations where safety productsare based on men's bodies as opposed to

(11:57):
women's bodies There's a reason why weget kinds of reality that we're living
in and we can change that with our money
So Janine I'm curiousabout your early days of
working
in tech Okay When I think of techSilicon Valley startups I'm thinking

(12:17):
you get these big stock options andequity compensation and obviously there
had to be something to help you launchinto following your passion you took
some sabbaticals and things like thatSo how did you build your early wealth
So my wealth was a long slow accumulationand part of it was my mom my mom and dad

(12:42):
both came out of the depression Moneywas hard when I was a kid I remember my
mom struggling to find enough for us toeat We drank powdered milk because she
couldn't afford whole milk We lived inhand me down clothes and at some point
my mom was like the you know the scene ofScarlet O'Hara come with the wind where

(13:04):
she stands up and she says I will neverbe hungry again That was my mom At some
point she was like I'm Done with thisAnd she taught herself real estate and
she started learning how to buy and sellproperties and she taught us when I was
in junior high school just by osmosis Ilearned from my mom She started investing
in the stock market in the eighties So Istarted investing in my twenties I bought

(13:27):
my first house before I was 30 and I saveddiligently I gave up stuff I lived a very
scarce life I lived way below my meansI always have I still do And I saved and
I invested and I bought more real estatewhen I could And you know I was kind of

(13:48):
fire I realized before it was a thing andit was because I was scared to death that
I was gonna be old and alone and livingunder a bridge because I couldn't afford a
house So I was just Really really carefulwith my money And I built my wealth over
time my mom passed some things on to mewhen she passed away but I was not one of

(14:09):
those people who got stock options I didnot make a lot of money the tech market
That wasn't me It was a long process
And the interesting thing is wehaven't heard one thing about your
dad and what he taught you aboutmoney is all come from your mom and
you're all about female empowerment.
Why is that
That's such a great question You knowwhat I've never thought about that

(14:29):
before but you're right Because my momwas the financially savvy one in the
family My dad was a super smart guywho should have been a professor and
couldn't do that because of the timesBut he was not the money savvy one in
the family My mom was the money savvy one
Wow do you have any specific I Iguess experiences in tech that sort of

(14:57):
Put you in a position where you wantedto pour into this women empowerment and
this impact investing cause you spent35 plus years in the tech industry
Anything you saw or any experiencesthat really led to you being uber
focused and passionate about this
About the women aspect of it

(15:17):
Yeah
I started my career in 1981 and I wasthe only female programmer I was often
the only woman in a room and I There's alot of testosterone in the tech industry
women were not really paid attentionto I mean I saw this I had instances

(15:39):
where the whole story of misogyny andand sexual advances I mean all of that
kind of stuff happened to me through theearly part of my career I actually left
Apple in 1991 because I was living in SanFrancisco commuting 45 minutes each way
to work every day and I wanted to workfrom home one day a week apple was saying

(16:05):
that this is what we do We're buildingthis future where people can telecommute
I'm like cool let me do that one daya week They said no I said I quit I
Wow
job and I started From that pointforward I started telecommuting as of
1991 and so I telecommuted for almost15 or 16 years something like that?

(16:29):
Never went back to an office every dayAnd then I took a job and in the interim
I really thought all of this stuff aroundwomen in tech had kind of disappeared I
thought women in business and you know nothaving equality with men had disappeared
And then I went to work for the GatesFoundation and I had to move to Seattle

(16:50):
and I had to go to the office every dayAnd it took me about a year to figure
it out And then I realized this hasn'tgone away It's just gone underground
So what used to be totally in your facelike men literally proposition your
boss literally propositioning you and
Wow
you don't like show up the way I wantyou to show up you're not gonna get that
promotion I mean I have to have thathappen to me It that wasn't there anymore

(17:15):
But these little digs were there whereevery day stuff happened in little tiny
ways that just undermined women thatdidn't really respect women at the level
that they should be respected And I wasvery saddened by it cause I really thought
we were done with this but we are not
You were working from home beforeWorking from home was a thing And

(17:36):
and how long were you at Apple
I was at Apple for aboutfive or six years from
Okay
to 91
Do you ever regret your choice to leave?
Never No one of the things I've beensuper fortunate in my career I always
loved the work that I did and assoon as I didn't like it or even so

(17:58):
normally my MO was I'd get a job I'd
Kick it for like six weeks two months I'dwork my heney off to be the best that they
could have possibly had the best personthey could have possibly hired I wanted
people to be really impressed And thenI built sort of my reputation in those

(18:19):
first couple of months and then about sixmonths in I'd start thinking about what
do I wanna do next And I'd spend the nextyear and a half planning for my next job
So I was ready to walk into my next joband I was always able to just move from
one position to another that I reallyliked and really enjoyed and really got

(18:39):
to a position where I didn't like whatI was doing anymore And as because I
was saving super aggressively the wisewisdom is that you should have three to
six months of your run rate in a savingsaccount I always had a year I had a
Hmm
of money stacked away so that I couldquit do what I wanted to do I once walked

(19:00):
away from a job because they asked meto do something unethical and I was like
Nope not doing that I'm leaving you knowit just gave me a lot of freedom and
flexibility to do what I wanted to do
Yeah.
JL Collins would call that FU money.
Yeah I I think that's exactly what itis And you you know so Janine so do you
mind sharing with us what was unethicalAre you comfortable with that Where

(19:24):
I don't
and it's okay
that I well
Okay
just quickly say I was askedto fire somebody who did
not deserve to be fired It
Okay Gotcha
where a person in a leadership role was
and as a result of anger wanted me tofire somebody who worked for me who

(19:45):
didn't deserve to be fired And I said no I
And you stood up for your values and yousharing your story I'm seeing all these
themes of you you know you having thesehigh ethical values and Able to actually
act on them because some people are sofearful of losing their job or they're
not financially able to say no they're notfinancially able to walk away So it sounds

(20:11):
like at the point when you left appleor at this point where you were asked
to do something in unethical you wereable to say not doing that And you had
the comfort of knowing that financiallyyou've got that one year cushion in an
emergency fund where you're gonna beokay Like Bill said that F you money

(20:33):
Exactly In fact when I walked awayfrom that job I'll never forget this
one of the other people who workedthere was a man who had a wife who
didn't work and three kids And he saidto me Janine you are so lucky That
you can make this choice He said I
Yeah
do that because I not only have to makesure happy but I have to take care of

(20:57):
my kids and my wife And you know oneof the things I think about a lot cause
I'm working on a a campaign right nowwe wanna help women and people think
about What would the world look like ifwomen had been equal parts of the economy
equal players in the economy for thelast 100 years Were thinking about these
kinds of things and the thing is that aworld like that it's not just better for

(21:20):
women it's better for men too becausewhen you are the sole male and all the
responsibilities on you for everyone inyour family that is a lot of pressure
right But if we can create a world wherewomen start to step into their financial
power start to step into what they cando it gives men a lot of freedom to live

(21:42):
the lives they wanna live to and theydon't have to feel caught in whatever
societal roles are forcing them to liveeven if it doesn't fit who they really are
No, I completely agree becausemy wife is fully employed and she
was part-time employed during,when we were raising kids.
But it does take the pressure off,you know given her employment.

(22:04):
I could walk away now and be financiallyfree as long as she continued to work.
And that is a powerful thing to knowthat, you know what and I live in a
world where, you know, you're onlyas good as your last mistake and
you can lose your job at the flip ofthe coin and be 90 days outta work.
So it requires a team torun the family business.

(22:24):
It's like a built in disability policyto have that as a backup as well.
Not only your individual wealth.
You were impacted by people andevery turn somebody in your career
said, because you were gonna go intobiology or medicine, I remember.
And, somebody said to you, computersand that sent you in that direction.

(22:44):
And then when you were in Sub-SaharanAfrica, you saw poverty on your sabbatical
and that sent you in another direction.
I think that's where you learnedabout sustainable development goals.
Can you tell us what those areand how they influenced you
So when I got involved in internationaldevelopment in 2025 there were about 35

(23:05):
countries that established 17 goals andthey're called the 17 the Sustainable
Development Goals And they were ratifiedby all 193 countries of the United
Nations in 2015 And these were goals thatcountries and companies and individuals
could work toward Things like no povertyor education clean water sustainable

(23:30):
cities recyclables equity et cetera Reallyadmirable goals and things that I think
the vast majority of us really wannasee when I started doing values aligned
investing impact investing I way peoplewere talking about how to make decisions
in this space were really esoteric It'slike well use your values like integrity

(23:53):
right We've talking about integrity orhonesty or community but these are not
things that you can actually apply toinvesting but the sustainable development
goals are And so they've started to becomedefacto or a framework that people can
use for this kind of investing And there'ssomething that we teach to the women that

(24:16):
go through our training at Invest ForBetter as a way to prioritize their goals
Because when you think about investingin the way that I am talking about You
are never gonna get perfect You knowand this is actually one of the things
that stops people is they think well ifI'm gonna invest with my values how do I
choose a company How do I choose a fundBecause I want it to be perfect I want it

(24:40):
to be know thinking about sustainabilityand the environment And I want it to be
great in terms of workers rights And Iwant it to have a diverse board and I
want it to have this other thing and Iwant and I want And the reality is you're
never gonna get all of those things inany one company or any one fund And so
you're gonna have to prioritize do youprioritize the environment or do you

(25:05):
prioritize not being invested in privateprisons Or do you prioritize another value
whatever your values are So sustainabledevelopment goals help that And what we
recommend to the women who go through ourtraining is pick one to three and then
use those to your investing decisions

(25:28):
I I think some people do think like allor none and you won't have it perfect
Like for me I I mainly do you indexfunds broad market index funds I have
chosen the one that aligns with me thebest But on top of that I'm probably one
of the few people in the fire communitythat has an individual stock portfolio
And I would say over the last fiveyears or so I have been weeding through
and getting rid of certain things thatdidn't align with my values And just

(25:52):
doing that little part made me feelgood Like for instance I got rid of a
tobacco company I think I originally gotit cause it had a great dividend but not
worth it and then I had a company I hadno idea but I discovered after doing my
research that they were heavily investedin private prisons So those are just
two small things that matter to me Andto your point think about the values

(26:16):
and the areas that mean enough to youto want to do a little something extra
about it as it relates to your investing
Exactly and you?
don't have to do it all either
Right
I'm seeking what I call 100 portfolioalignment And what that means is I start
with my cash look at my fixed income mystock portfolio I started doing private

(26:42):
investing a little while back and I investin female CEOs because they get only 2
of all of the venture in this country 2And black women CEOs get 35 basis points
so those are And so I invest there AndI also look at this in terms of my real

(27:03):
estate I mean I'm looking at it from oneend to the other but that doesn't mean
everybody needs to do that And even ifthey just look at one asset class or one
fund or they decide you know what maybeI don't wanna be in this particular index
fund anymore I'm not gonna sell it causeI have embedded gains there but from now
on as I'm buying I'm gonna buy somethingelse There are many many ways you can do

(27:28):
this Or think I'm gonna move my savingsaccount or my checking account to a a bank
that's actually in my local community andsupporting people there Or a bank that's
providing loans for environmental purposesor a bank that's supporting female
entrepreneurs or a black owned bank Thereare so many options for us in every single

(27:48):
asset class There are so many options
Well, I haven't ever thoughtabout what I do with my cash.
And I have to admit.
I looked at one of your guides to redversus green on one of the websites.
And because of convenienceI bank with JP Morgan Chase,
and they're one of the worst.
They're one of the big four banks thatinvest in all the in stocks and does

(28:11):
everything wrong with regards to this.
And you talk about, forexample, aspiration Bank where
you can invest your cash.
And they plant a tree fordifferent things and avoid
petroleum investments, for example.
And I'm an ally where they're alittle bit better than JP Morgan
Chase, but not like aspiration.

(28:33):
And they're both digital banks thathelp you manage your cash, right.
Right Exactly And there are some otherones that have come up since aspiration
They were the first but there are someother digital banks now too And I just
learned the other day that one Unitedwhich is a black owned and run bank
is also got a digital bank now They'rethe first black owned digital bank So

(28:55):
there are other options like that And Ibought a cd in a bank called Climate
First Bank They're based out of FloridaThey give loans to people who are buying
electric vehicles or solar panels or otherclimate forward types of technologies
I'm getting close to 5 on that CD if I'mnot mistaken So I mean there are options

(29:17):
out there that are well financially foryou and also doing well for the world
and that are easy to open an account Ittook me 15 minutes to open an account
with Climate First easy to transactthrough mobile My primary bank is based
in my city and I do everything throughmy phone and they're helping people

(29:39):
in my city So there's lots of options
So Janine if somebody wanted to findone of those banks how how would they
go about searching for it Do you haveanything on your website or is there
an aggregation site of these typesof banks How would someone find those
Yes there are So one great resource iscalled Mighty Deposits I think it's Mighty

(29:59):
deposits.org I'm pretty sure and you canlook for a bank There there are other as
well And one of the things that I did whenI wrote Activate Your Money chapter in
the book and I don't think people fullyrealize this when they read the book
but every chapter in the book has a takeaction section and it tells you these are
the steps to actually move your assets orrethink this particular asset class cause

(30:24):
the book is written where in the middlesection it goes asset class by asset class
so it talks about cash cash equivalentsfixed income et cetera There's a website
called Activate your money.net that'stied to the book and you can go in you
look up a chapter in that website and itwill take you to a take action section and
you can download spreadsheets documentstools all kinds of things that you need

(30:49):
to actually do what it says in the bookAnd that's all free And that also has
a dig deeper section for every chapterwhere you can go and there's all kinds of
links about how to gain more informationabout that particular topic So the cash
chapter has a dig deeper section and youcan find other resources there as well

(31:11):
you mentioned you can dothis with fixed income too.
It seems to me after reading yourbook that it's a little harder
there with regards to fundsversus individual investments.
How do you do it?
How would you recommend that ouraudience take fixed income into the
values aligned investing category?
So there are three ways to do it I thinkdepending on one your level of assets

(31:35):
for that particular asset class and yourdesire So the easiest is to just invest
in funds broad market sort of fixed incomeportfolios through the stock market That's
the easiest And there are some listed inthe book So part of what I do in the book
is I give actual examples of things thatyou can invest in there are not a ton in

(31:58):
fixed income that way There's not a tonbut there are some And if you can put in
a hundred thousand or more you can getmore options that's one option The second
option is and this is what I do is Iactually found a financial advisor who has
built a separately managed account for meSo I gave her all the assets that I wanted
in my bond portfolios and she's buyingindividual bonds for me based on my and

(32:24):
the things that I wanna achieve So that'san option It's harder to find There are
not that many people who are accomplishedat buying and selling bonds but I do
that and according to her you can have avaluable a bond portfolio like that for
with $50,000 if you want I think that's alittle low in my view I think a little bit
more in a bond portfolio that's separatelymanaged or where you're buying your own

(32:47):
bonds would be better for diversificationpurposes If you have 250,000 or more that
you wanna put into a bond portfolio andyou have a financial advisor Then you
can work with them to get you into thingslike Invesco and the other organization
escaping my memory right now I'll think ofit but I think it's Breckenridge So those

(33:10):
two advisory firms or investment firmshave funds that are specifically bond
funds for gender equity for environmentalpurposes and for other lenses or criteria
So those are three different ways thatyou could do this depending on your assets
So I have an observation Janine soyou've referenced a few times that

(33:31):
your investment person is a woman
I
you're contributing you have two OkayYeah so you're obviously when it comes to
your investing you're investing in thatway as Well, because you you know I'm A
CFP and the numbers don't look so greatin terms of women CFPs and minorities
and things like that So you are I guessagain speaking with your pocketbook by

(33:56):
using the services for your investmentprofessional that's a female So you
definitely walk the talk for sure So
is a female too so is my lawyer all
Well
it seems like, if, if I remembercorrectly, 20% of CFPs are women, but only
two to 3% of those are people of color.

(34:16):
And that is the way it was 20 years ago.
So there really hasn't been much movementin that regard, and it's something
we can need to continue to work on.
You know, it's sad but you guys aremaking a difference in this regard,
and I am privileged to be aligned,values aligned with you guys.

(34:37):
I'm a big fan.
I'm a big fan of women's leadershipand for these reasons that you've
been outlining , and one thing weneed to understand with regards to.
Investing is sort of the spectrum ofvalues aligned investing and getting out
of what you call two pocket thinking.
Can you tell us what that means andthen give us the idea of what the

(34:58):
spectrum of values based investingis from traditional to philanthropy
Sure So two pocket thinking is what I sortof referenced earlier where you have one
pocket of money that is meant to maximizereturn regardless of what it's doing in
the world Just maximize return is allthat matters And then the other pocket

(35:18):
is the pocket that you do good with andyou have your philanthropic giving And
you can think of those as two posts of afootball field right There are two ends
of that football field Traditionallythat's all there was So what I do values
aligned investing is all this stuff inbetween and it can run from anything And

(35:39):
this is where perfect is not the goal Okayand you can go anywhere in this kind of
investing from I am gonna get as closeto maximizing my return as possible or
even outperforming And a lot of researchshows in the stock market which is where
I know most people are invested the kindof investing I do actually does do very

(36:05):
well It is equivalent to or outperformstraditional investing So you can get there
you can be on in the traditional spacevalues aligned space be getting a really
great return and it goes everywhere fromthere all the way closer to philanthropy.
where the impact that you're having isgreater and greater and greater And you

(36:26):
may even end up in a situation whereYou decide consciously I'm gonna give up
return the impact that this investmentis making is so great that I'm willing
To take a concessionary return hereSo at one end where you're closer to
traditional investing chances are you'renot getting as perfect a return And as

(36:51):
you get closer to philanthropy you'regiving up return to have a greater impact
And there's everything in between you
You talk about different levels here.
I think level one is first do no harm.
Level two is benefit stakeholders,and level three is develop solutions.
What do each of those mean
So do no harm means sort of what Jackiewas talking about when she was talking

(37:15):
about her individual stock portfolio It'sdon't invest in things that are doing harm
Get out of the tobacco industry get outof the industries that are polluting the
planet or putting plastics in our did youknow we have like a teaspoon of plastic
in our brains at this point I mean it'sgotten crazy or that are putting chemicals
in our food that are harming our childrenGet out of those companies That's what

(37:39):
do no harm means The second one whichis benefit stakeholders is think more
broadly Think about What is this companydoing in terms of its workers Is it giving
them a fair wage Is it giving them aviable way to live Is it thinking about
the community that it's in and helpingpeople in the community it ethical does

(38:01):
it have a diverse workforce Does it havea diverse board So it's a broader base
of sort of characteristics and criteriathat are going to help a company do better
in the long term And it has been shownthat when we think about these things
when a company does better at thesethings it also does better financially So

(38:23):
that's what benefits stakeholders mean?
the third one which is targeted impactis where you say you know what I'm gonna
invest in a company that is making solarpanels or I'm gonna invest in a company
like I'm invested in one that is takingClothing that is excess clothing and it

(38:43):
is reducing it down to thread and thenremaking it into new clothing That's a
company that would be a targeted impactThat company is doing something that is
all about impact that it's having in theworld So those are the three different
levels and You, can get those threedifferent levels in different ways through

(39:06):
each of the asset classes as well So Igo into that in the book a little bit too
And Janine these are things that let's saywe talk on the show about investor policy
statements So would you know this impactinvesting Value investing and some of
the things you just read off So this hasa place in the investor policy statement

(39:26):
Oh absolutely In fact I love that youdo that and that you talk about that
Yes So an investor policy statement isa really important thing for yourself
and if you have a financial advisor it'sa really important thing to be able to
talk with your financial advisor aboutwhat you want And in fact when we have
women go through our course they leavewith an investor policy statement that

(39:50):
also includes impact It talks about allthe traditional things in terms of you
know what kind of returns you're lookingat what your risk profile is what you
wanna achieve with your money But italso puts the values piece in there too
Yeah So as far as your book and we talkeda lot about it already but it's been

(40:10):
out since 2021 Amazing book So from 2021to now is there anything you wish you
would've put in the book or somethingthat you think is worth talking about that
just did not get enough play in the book
Wow I don't think I could have putanything else to be honest with you
It is really full of all the wisdomthat I gathered through over 40 years

(40:37):
almost 40 years of investing and it'snot even just my wisdom What's kind
of amazing about this book although itsounds like it's written by a single
person When I started writing it Irealized how much work it was gonna be
I hear ya
by interviewing all these people II wrote the cash chapter first and I

(40:58):
did all these interviews It took me amonth and a half to write that chapter
It's like this book is gonna take meforever So I reached out to 40 women
I knew who were financial advisors aangel investors venture capitalists
philanthropists ran donor advised fundsall these women and I was like Hey Would

(41:18):
you like write a chapter of my bookfor me or the whole you know part of
Mm-hmm
And I got them all to writeearly parts of the book And
Wow
all of their stuff I rewrote the wholething so that it had one voice and it
was consistent throughout And then Isent every chapter to 20 to 25 women
and had them read it And half of thosewomen were experts and half of them

(41:41):
were readers And I got their feedbackand I rewrote the whole book again
Wow what a project
had about 150 women and andsome men help me write that book
Wow
book is the consolidatedwisdom of a lot of people
you used the wisdom too, of some of thefounders of this movement, and I want to

(42:04):
give a couple of shout outs to people likeJoan Bavaria and who else was it Amy doin?
Amy Domini Yeah
Can you tell us who those are and whythey are founders of this movement?
Please.
So what's really interesting about thiskind of investing that I don't think
people know I think people think it'skind of new I think people think it's

(42:24):
maybe may not be around for very longThis actually goes back to biblical times
biblical times So and it's very steepedin religion So if you look at Jewish law
Islamic finance Catholic the Pope has putout an encyclical that tells people how to

(42:45):
vote Catholics to vote with their valuesProtestants I mean it is ingrained in a
lot of religious thinking what our valuesare and how that ties to our money So in
this country where we saw the foundingof this was in the mid 17 hundreds with
the Quakers who said their members couldnot benefit from the slave trade That's

(43:05):
how far back this goes in the UnitedStates It started to rise again in the
1960s 1970s as people were looking atthe Vietnam War they were starting to
look in the eighties at apartheid andthinking about how their money could
make an impact Nuns in the 1970s startedsaying you know what We're gonna invest

(43:26):
our money in our local community to helpthe people that we're serving And Joan
Bavaria was a woman who in the 1980sstarted the very first Values aligned
Invest financial advisory firm calledTrillium It still exists today It's got
several billion dollars under managementAnd about eight years after Joan Amy

(43:50):
Dominique came along and created the firstsocially responsible index And that index
is still in existence today And DominiInvestments is still a business and they
help people invest this way They have avariety of funds that you can buy and part
of what Domini and some of these earlierplayers do in addition to investing they

(44:11):
do shareholder advocacy So they work withcompanies to help those companies align
their behaviors more closely with allstakeholders and to really benefit those
stakeholders So yeah women have played avery very significant role in this as have
religious leaders from the very beginning
So how does the Domini 400 socialindex compare to the s and p 500

(44:35):
and would your world be, let's see,that index overtake the s and p 500
That's a great question And you knowwhat I don't actually know the answer
I haven't done a comparison but whatI can tell you is that there has been
some research on two s and p 500?
funds one of which is just a regular sand p 500 and the other one is an ESG

(45:01):
500 And the ESG one has outperformedit over the last five years by 15.1
Wow.
while I don't know the KLD onespecifically I do know that when I
said earlier you do not have to giveup financial returns I meant it I'm
looking to yeah it's the s the s andp 500 ESG outperforms the s and p

(45:22):
500 index 15.1 from launch date in2019 to through the middle of 2024
Wow.
when I talked to Somebo when I was onanother podcast recently and I mentioned
that it was Doc G he said yeah but that'sonly five years Janine what about the last

(45:42):
20 And there's data that goes back to the1970s So although it's a somewhat older
study it was done in 2015 There was astudy that was done that looked back 2000
studies going all the way back to 1970sand it showed that you do not give up
financial return if you're investing thisway the term ESG is you gotta understand

(46:09):
that term is really under attack right nowand I think it's really misguided and it
doesn't really explain what ESG really isAnd ESG is really a And then it's a way to
analyze companies beyond financial returnIt's a way to analyze companies in the
current reality of where we are today interms of climate in terms of the way what

(46:34):
people want from companies what it takesto be an ethical viable company It's so
it's additional data that you can use tomake an informed financial decision which
I think is what most of us would wantso there's plenty of data to show even
backwards looking that you do not have togive up financial return But I would also

(46:56):
suggest that as we look forward world thatwe're in these days is so unpredictable
it's so unknown There are so many changesin terms not just climate but ai all this
stuff that's coming at us right now we'regoing to need more information to be
able to really make Good decisions aboutour investment choices And so I applaud

(47:21):
the attempts to try to give us that data
So
Janine was there a website wherepeople could check their funds or
look for funds you you know basedon certain values What was that
So there
I
one of my favorites There are severalthings that are available online for free
Again I talk about them in the book and onthe website But my favorite is something

(47:44):
called As you sow invest your Values So if
Okay
Google that just Google as you sowinvest your values it will take you
Yeah
a webpage where you can enter the tickersymbol or the name of an investment fund
that you have it doesn't do individualcompanies but it does funds and it will
show you really detailed informationabout how that fund is invested in terms

(48:08):
of fossil fuels gender equity Privateprisons guns weapons deforestation
tobacco et cetera it's profound It'sreally a remarkable tool and you can
use it both to look at what you'reinvested in currently and you can also
use it as a tool find an alternative

(48:29):
Well, that's another screeningtool that we should all
think about in our investing.
Right.
But one of the things that's a headwindfor this is, doesn't it cost more?
Aren't the expense ratiossomewhat, significantly more
to invest in these funds?
What would you say to that?
not necessarily you are investing in amutual fund then you're gonna pay more

(48:50):
like a mutual fund and sometimes theyhave a little bit higher fee But again so
in terms of fees I'm gonna give you twoanswers to this First in terms of fees I
don't care about fees What I care aboutis the final return So I think sometimes
people get too twisted around this axleof fee and in doing that they're not

(49:12):
looking at what the return is So I'm moreinterested in what is the final return
minus the fee and does that outperformand I will pay 1.5 every day if it's
giving me a better return than somethingthat's charging me 10 basis points That
said you do not have to make the choiceof having higher fees So as an example I

(49:37):
know the fire community loves V-T-S-A-Xthe Vanguard Total Stock Market Index
Fund I know it's I realize it's like theholy grail in this space right It's like
the perfect fund for some people And Iown it too I've owned it for decades I
have a lot of embedded gains in it sadlycause I wanna lose it I decided along as

(49:57):
I was doing this work I was like wannafind something like V-T-S-A-X that is
broad market low fee large cap blend allthat And I used as you SOW and other tools
and I found something called ESGV It'sanother Vanguard fund same low fee Not

(50:20):
quite as broad market but still prettygood I looked them both up on as you sow
Vanguard is horrible They get D's and F'sit's horrible And ESGV gets B's and C's
and I think there's an A in there So it'snot perfect There are things that I could
have chosen that were all A's but theywere too far away from the like Russell

(50:45):
1000 Russell 2000 benchmark for me Sochose ESGV I invested in it I've owned
it five or six years It has outperformedV-T-S-A-X every year except one year I
think it was 2022 they were both downV-T-S-A-X was down 19 ESGV was down 22

(51:07):
But every other year it's outperformed So
do you think
a better return and a better socialimpact but not a perfect social impact
why do you think that is?
What do you think causes thatbit of tracking difference
In terms of when you saythe tracking difference?

(51:29):
Well, ESGV your, your ESGV and CHILLversus the V-T-S-A-X and chill.
I think it's doing better because it'sprobably a little heavier weighted in some
of the tech industries And also if youlook at oil and gas which it doesn't hold
as much of that has dragged the marketdown I mean if you look over like the last

(51:51):
10 years it has been going down down downdown down And there was a pop because of
the Ukraine war But I don't think thatthat industry is going to do great for
us And so I think that there are certainthings that ESGV isn't in that's actually
dragging the market down and that VTX isstill holding and so it's taking that hit

(52:15):
Oh so that makes sense because Idon't do vt and and again this is
not any kind of specific you you knowrecommendation or anything like that So
just the disclaimer But my go-to stockindex fund is VUG Vanguard Growth Fund
and
that has about 200 companies mostlytech but it gets a score of I think a C

(52:37):
which
is a little bit better thanyou you know the V-T-S-A-X
yeah so so everyone just has toobviously look at their own investor
policy statement look at their ownvalues and see what best aligns with
them And you've just given us a lot oftools to help us do that with a caveat
You don't have to give up return So myVUG has performed better even in the

(53:02):
long term but again that's just for me
right it
it it does its job for my portfolioSo you you've given us so much like in
the book and just your knowledge thatyou've built up you you know from all
these past years this have been amazing
Well thank you And I actually justwanted jump onto what you just said
because of what you said about thisdisclaimer and I should have said that

(53:24):
early on too that everything I say is forinformational and educational purposes
only and even when I mention specificinvestments these are my investments
They are things that I have done andI'm not endorsing them for anybody else
So thank you for that That's I normallyalways think about the disclaimer

(53:46):
Having said that though, and wanting tolook at the world as a global economy and
from a global perspective and wanting topotentially have an international tilt
to your portfolio, we have V-T-S-A-Xand BNDX, what would you recommend
for, potentially a bond allocationor a stock allocation that includes

(54:08):
diversified international perspective?
So that's a great question I'm not gonnagive you a specific answer I'm gonna say
there are some things in my book I haven'tlooked at where things stand right now to
really tell you This is the thing that Ifound that I think is super interesting
There are some international funds inthe book and yeah I'm not gonna give you

(54:32):
a specific answer again just because Idon't want to because of my disclaimer
Yeah
S
Read the.
Yeah
bill loves that international stuff Oh mygoodness a great and more than anything
I like this book because it's such agreat reference to keep around It has
so much rich information It goes deeperthan what I find in some other books

(54:57):
So it is definitely one worth keepingaround And I've got mine right back there
I have to give you a shout out too,because one of the guests that's been on
our show actually wrote a blurb for you.
David Stein said, activate yourmoney, brings women and the power
of their money to the forefront ofthe conversation around investing
for financial and social return.

(55:17):
So, you know, you've got a fan, amale fan who's been on our show, and
I just needed to pay homage to him
Thank you so much Well I love him.
I think that he is just amazing Idiscovered him while I was writing my
book I became a member of his work Ithink his podcasts are great And for

(55:37):
somebody who's just starting going allthe way back to the beginning because
he's gotten much more sophisticated inwhat he is explaining now But if you go
way back to his early stuff it explainslike this Like what is a bond How does
it work It's I I love him I think he's a
Yeah
And another person that is a friendof mine is also in your book, and

(56:00):
I want to hear how you know her.
Lynn Fre says about your book,I have sought to better align my
investments with my values and havebeen looking for a roadmap to do so.
Activate Your Money is a detailed, hopefuland inspiring compilation of information
for others like me who see greaterpotential in the world and are determined

(56:21):
to be a part of the positive change.
How do you know Lynn?
I think I met her through someoneelse in the FinCon community before
I even knew what the FinCon communitywas So I am a major networker I will
Yeah
to anybody I'll meet anybody I allthe time and somewhere along the path

(56:43):
of writing my book I heard of her andshe and I had a fabulous conversation
and she gave me some insights thatI think ended up in the book So yeah
I think it was through the FinConcommunity that I got to know her
And that's how we met you too
And Lynn is a joy She's very good friendsof both of ours she spoke at the first
economy so I will drop that in there Butshe is a very deep holistic person I think

(57:09):
she talked about does community show upfor you was it was a great talk We need
to get her on the show bill she is awesomeSo we love to find these connections
Right Only three degrees of separation
Exactly and actually I think youguys know Bernadette Joy too.
right Don't you Do you
we met her at Fcon Yes.
we did
she has gone through our training andshe went through some of our training

(57:33):
and sat down with her husband and moveda significant portion of their assets
into more values aligned investmentsafter going through the experience
Wow
for better Yeah
So we need to get her on the show aswell So you talked about this training
that you do for women I'd like to hearmore about that and we're excited to hear

(57:53):
about what new you have going on now
Sure So the way we work is we actually putwomen into small groups of about eight to
20 think of like an investment club Andthey go through a facilitated experience
where they learn together and they learnfrom somebody who's more experienced than
them And so we currently have a six partseries We're upping it to an eight part

(58:17):
series soon And they have conversationsthey start with talking about Their
money stories and what they believeabout money And we take them through a
values conversation We get them thinkingabout how they're currently invested
and then we take them through a processof looking at their assets in different
asset classes and what they could dodifferently And as I said they walk out

(58:38):
with an investment policy statement So
Excellent
heard from women is that they love thisopportunity to actually talk to other
women about their money It's not a thingthat they usually have an opportunity
to do and it's transformational for manyof them So we have a getting started
course and then we've created a numberof advanced courses too having one in

(59:02):
we're that train women on things likeAngel investing is something a lot of
women have never thought about So we havea beginning angel investing course We
teach you how to find a values alignedfinancial advisor if that's something that
you want we teach you how to think withan environmental lens or a race racial
justice lens or other ways of addressingyour portfolio So that's what we do We

(59:25):
actually have our recruiting right nowfor women who want to go through that
circle experience and you can just go toinvest for better.org and look up courses
and and sign up We'll be running ourcurriculum again in September so we do it
every year in April and in September Thisyear we're particularly excited because

(59:47):
we have a special curriculum that we aredeveloping specifically for black women
so that black women can come together ininclusive circles to talk with other women
who have had similar experiences We'recalling it Shifting Wealth Shaping Futures
and we are recruiting for that right nowtoo So we will have eight circles running

(01:00:09):
We have that means we have a total of 160women who can do this So if women want
to do it they should sign up right nowand you can do that by going to Invest
for better.org/s wsf and sign up for that
Yes I love that you're doing thatSo we will put this in the journal

(01:00:30):
notes when when when does it close
So we will probably close this versionof It will close we're gonna kick off
the circles in the middle of April soprobably the first week of April You
want about a week of time to get readyfor your first meeting So we've got a
couple more weeks I think that there isand it's really inexpensive It's $149

(01:00:53):
through the end of this week and then itwill be 250 But it's a very inexpensive
curriculum And the reason that we do thatis we don't want any woman to not be able
to participate We are a nonprofit Ourgoal is not to make money Our goal is
just to help women get this informationAnd One of the things that we're doing

(01:01:13):
with Shifting Wealth Shaping Futuresactually is all of the women who are
leading the circles our financial coachesfinancial planners have Knowledge in
this space Most of them run their ownsmall businesses and we are gonna let
them keep going with this curriculumWe're basically giving it to them So
part of the way we're hoping to grow thefootprint of who hears this information

(01:01:39):
is by letting other people take ourcurriculum run it under their own brands
Yeah you gave me a great sneak peek intothat and part of my journey learning
about investing and personal financewas a better investing investment club
so I love the idea of these investingcircles and it does make a huge

(01:02:00):
difference to be around other women
Yeah
One of the inspirations for you,I think was the Beardstown ladies.
Wasn't that it
Yes the Beardstown ladies was a group ofmiddle-aged women which I guess I am now
middle-aged women from the Midwest whoback in the 1980s formed an investment
club and they were investing in blue chipcompanies doing you couldn't do badly

(01:02:23):
in the 1980s actually And they did wellwith their money and they wrote a book
they taught women how to put togetherinvestment clubs and learn how to invest
together And the book came out in 1991 andI was in a club like that We girlfriends
and I formed a club in San Franciscowe called it Fog Bank And I was in it?

(01:02:47):
for three years And we'd gettogether we'd have dinner we'd
have wine and then we'd get downto business and learn how to invest
Well, what's interesting here is womenlove to collaborate, and I haven't heard
anything about male investment clubs.
Do they exist?
Maybe we don't.
know I
well
but you know when I worked internationallyso part of what I used to do was I

(01:03:11):
worked in something called microfinanceAnd microfinance is the act of giving
small loans to people generally womento help them build little businesses
to come out of poverty And all over theworld there are these groups of women
who come together they pool their moneytogether and they then lend it out one

(01:03:33):
at a time to the different women They'recalled Suzu In some countries they're
Oh yeah
In other countries they havedifferent names everywhere But
it's always women It's I don't
Yeah
very many of those finance microfinancegroups that are men primarily
I can tell you the organization betterinvesting They have all kinds of clubs
and the majority are men So I guessbecause there's so few women talking about

(01:04:00):
investing that's what the end that's whywe're trying to elevate you you know women
talking about investing learning aboutinvesting because the default is for them
not to or the majority not investing and Iwas one of those people when I was younger
and I was married I was investing verydifferently than what my husband was doing

(01:04:23):
So there is a ton of Men Investing ClubIf you just google Better investing.org
you'll
see
Interesting
Yeah What's interesting too is there'sresearch out there that shows that women
are better than men at investing andhave higher returns because maybe men
take on too much risk or speculate.

(01:04:44):
That's exactly right In fact part ofthe reason so there's a great study by
Fidelity They looked at 5 million accountsover a 10 year period I think it is and
they found that women outperformed by40 basis points a year And it's because
men are more inclined to invest instocks individual stocks women are more
inclined to invest in funds Women aremore inclined to buy and hold they're

(01:05:09):
more inclined to hold tight during thedown markets and men are less likely to
do those things And so the strategy thatwomen uses tends to be better for returns
Well, I mean, I think that'sprobably a great upswing to close
this female-centric podcast.

(01:05:29):
On the last question we always liketo ask our guests is, do you have any
tips in general with regards to ESG orsocially aligned or aligned investing
what would you do for late starters?
Anything different?
So for late starters I think about valuesaligned investing I think of it kind of

(01:05:50):
like a cake because first you have tohave the foundation So you need to be a
smart confident investor writ large Sothat's just important And then where the
values come in is where you're makingyour investment choices but you're making
those investment choices on top of astrong foundation right Like the icing

(01:06:11):
on a cake for late starters particularlywomen what I would suggest is get started
Even if you if you're older and you areMarried and you're not paying attention
to your money please start If you're nothaving conversations with your spouse
please do There are too many women I'veseen who end up divorced or who end up

(01:06:36):
widowed who don't know anything about themoney that is in the family So if you are
not paying attention yet step in startpaying attention Get yourself educated
and informed And as you're thinking aboutit start having conversations about your
values and start thinking about thatpiece If you're already invested in your

(01:06:59):
a late starter no problem If you're stillactually investing don't necessarily
change what you've already done andwhat you've already invested in because
you're probably like me and you haveembedded gains But if you're continuing
to put money in the market I Put it indifferently Think about your bank accounts
That's easy to change and if you have theopportunity to do tax loss harvesting and

(01:07:24):
to get rid of things that are not verygood right now buy into things that are
Yeah and I think you've given us so manyoptions It's not all or one but so many
things to think about If you do wannaincorporate any level of value impact
investing there's lots of ways to do it

(01:07:46):
tons of ways to do it across your entireportfolio In fact one of my favorite
investments right now is a real estatedeal So I took a property that I
co-owned with my sister It was a rentresidential real estate sold it I ended

(01:08:06):
up this was just so fortuitous the waythis all unfolded but I wanted to do
something more values aligned with itand I ended up meeting couple of young
female real estate developers which issuch a rarity Portland Oregon And they

(01:08:26):
wanted to build affordable workforcehousing they needed to get a start They
wanted to buy a piece of land They neededsome money So I went in I helped em buy
the land and they are having a ribboncutting ceremony I bought the I did this
with them several years ago and havinga ribbon cutting ceremony in April to

(01:08:50):
unveil 36 units of workforce housing and
Wow
a co-owner of that building I wentfrom a single family to 36 units of
workforce housing and helped kickstartwhat they were trying to do And they've
already broken ground on their secondproperty and they're moving along So for
Wow

(01:09:11):
is what this is all about right
Yeah
really uplifting other people making surethat people in my community are supported
underserved populations are getting theloans they need through my banking that
I'm invested in schools and hospitals andpurposes through my fixed income that my

(01:09:31):
stocks are not in things that I don't wantthem to be in real estate I'm supporting
women through private investing So everystep along the way I am looking at how I
can use this money in a more impactful way
We'll bring it back to Vicki Robinagain because she mentioned that in
order to have affordable housing onher island near Seattle, she house

(01:09:53):
hacked with young people and rentsout rooms in a co in her own home
and in another home that she owns.
So she does it in a micro level as well.
I'm just so impressed with the possibilityhere and it you have opened my mind
to a world of possibility that I, mywife and I need to look at as well.

(01:10:13):
You know, we can talk about the simplepath to wealth, but we can talk about
also the simple path to world health
Ooh
Oh new tagline
That's right Look at bill over therethinking And in preparation for the show I
took a closer look at a lot of what I wasdoing and you confirmed a lot of things

(01:10:35):
for me and I got a little more work todo but this was so insightful Like our
audience will benefit tremendously we willbenefit and you've just opened our eyes
and thank you for beingwith us here today.
We encourage our audience to go readyour book, check out your websites.
There's just so many resources thatwill open your eyes to the possibilities

(01:10:57):
to think differently, to think in ahealthy investing way, and to align
your values just like you do in yourpersonal life with your investing life.
So, Janine, we're gonna have tohave you back and find out what's
going on with you in the future.
'cause you're always doing something new.
Yeah
I would love that you gotta Imean what else is life for Right

(01:11:17):
that's right
exploring the next thing and pushingthe next envelope I mean you gotta
All right, Jackie, anyfinal thoughts from you
Just that Janine is extraordinaryand I'm happy to be aligned with you?
I will definitely share I don't knowwhen this will episode It may be after
it that new project you're working on isclosing, but I will definitely share it
on social media and hit up any friendsof mine or any groups that might be

(01:11:41):
interested because it sounds like it'sgonna be awesome and we definitely wanna
hear more about it once you get it going.
And we'll run it again.
So if
Great.
march april timeframe wewill run it again for sure.
well, as always, as always, wemen have a lot to learn from the
women in our lives, and I feellike we've accomplished that today.
So thanks again and we'll see younext week on Catching Up to FI

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Vote Your Money: Values Aligned Investing | Janine Firpo | 139

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Vote Your Money: Values Aligned Investing | Janine Firpo | 139