April 7, 2023 • 34 mins
In this episode, Cate and Erik sit down to discuss laziness, learned incompetence, and ADHD, and how things like emotional dysregulation, executive function and even trauma can become an untenable "Laundry Mountain". Cate has an honestly pretty significant podcast breakthrough, Erik busts out some Fancy Words, and they come up with a new plan to get past ADHD paralysis and into a functioning kitchen.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:08):
Hi Kitty. Hi Eric.
I would take a long time to get room sound that time.
That's okay. Bailey really close to cap it
around. Also, I just was ticked, really
hard? Did you really?
Yeah, it's really point. I want to see if I can hear it.
I'm going back hurts. Hi everybody.
Welcome back to infinite question.
(00:28):
You psyched me out on that one. Well, I bet that's the bid is
still funny after 100 million. I bet that everybody's like, oh
boy, I wonder what hilarious butthey're going to do for that.
Which door is opening? Send us an email at asking if no
(00:50):
Quest podcast if you heard the garage door opening.
Anyway, see you I'm kind of okaywith it.
You know, why? I've been thinking about it.
Like, you are so great at audio and you're so great at making a
podcast. And we're in our cool new fancy
podcast boost. Go to my Instagram and see the
picture of it. But here's the dealio, we're
(01:11):
Also, just people we are going to podcasts.
That is true. Our spare room Estelle's.
I figured out today, finally, how to get the radio signals to
not come in, through the things?I'm really excited about this
whole thing because apparently it's like the weather, affects
it like the pressure in the atmosphere changes.
How radio signal, like II was a whole thing.
But I'm really proud of, so, hopefully, the sounds real nice.
(01:34):
I don't know. I hope I bet it does.
I bet it sounds incredible and amazing also Eric.
Yeah. What.
Are we going to talk about? Say you said, you had a pitch.
I had a pitch and I feel like I didn't want it.
I was too like think well I don't think about I didn't want
you to think about it like to too much before we like started.
So you have veto power for this pitch.
Okay, Bailey is sold separately.Go out the door.
(01:59):
Anyways, so I posted a video on the old ticket to talk talk.
Talk that I've had a, my drafts forever, some version of it, my
drafts forever. Okay?
But I've noticed that I hadn't been making eighty HD content on
Tick-Tock very much lately, because I was seeing a lot of
videos of people saying, like, do you have ADHD try this?
(02:20):
Do you have any to do? Try this Jeremy's do.
Try this. And the comments just full of
people saying, like, thanks. I'm cured or like calling them
ableist or You know, assuming that they insinuated their
insinuating that like the the reason they're struggling is
just because they are shitty andnot because they have a mental
disorder which sometimes is whatpeople are saying.
And those people go fuck themselves.
(02:42):
But I've just noticed there's a sort of cycle of trauma of.
If you have ADHD your whole life, you've been told by a lot
of people that oh, you're just not doing this.
And if you applied yourself you do better.
And your backpack looks like shit because you're a piece of
shit. You know, first grade Eric
that's nobody's called. Me a piece of shit, although I'm
sure somebody probably called mea piece of shit.
(03:03):
When I was in fourth grade is not to my face, this in the
Teachers Lounge Miss Burrell Ellis and they're like yeah
carrots kids real piece of shit.No really.
So I only please my love please.Everything's different now is
new. Smells you know.
So where's your collar? I took it off because I'll
signals okay. Smart guy, right?
Yeah, it's a perfectly reasonable like trauma response
(03:24):
to like since you've been told your whole life?
I would, you just do this that, you know, when you see somebody
say, hey, have you tried? It using a fucking planner or,
you know, putting your hamper wear the clothes tend to pile up
rather than where you think it should be, or whatever it like,
it's reasonable to think like fuck you like this isn't that
simple, you know, it's much morecomplicated than it is.
(03:45):
And I think that often my default is that a lot of the
time, but it got me scared to, like, talk about ADHD life,
hacks or whatever, how one mightmanage it because I was afraid
of being called ablest and I wasafraid I would You know, I don't
know, I was afraid. I was talking to an audience
that wasn't trying to hear it, you know.
(04:07):
Anyway. So I post the video basically,
talking about how one you're doing yourself, a huge
disservice when you discredit someone's advice, even if it's
in bad faith because get that, get this to get dig this.
When someone gives you advice. It's not about them.
It's about you. You might be able to benefit
from that device, even if they give you advice in bad faith,
like just be like, oh, mate. What are they, right?
(04:29):
And if That fucking but like youshouldn't just assume somebody's
wrong because they're being a dick.
Like the ability to learn from people you don't like is very
important thing. Anyways, so that got me thinking
a lot about, you know, are therestrategies and stuff that I
discredit. Because either the person who
suggested them to me, is somebody I don't like or
somebody who was part of the whole idea.
HD, trauma thing, when I was a kid and how much learned
(04:51):
incompetence do I have, like, inmy life Bailey, you're so
fucking adorable, but Jesus body.
She's old podcast dog. She's a little pockets to be.
She wants to have her. This is the Bailey asaurus
section. They also spilled french fries.
They're like two days ago. So wow.
She's probably still set him up.But anyways, that's just to say,
(05:13):
I've been, I've been thinking about, I've been trying to find
like, learned in confidence in my own life and think, like, are
there any things that I could bedoing to make my life?
Even like one percent better than I'm not doing?
Because I just assumed that I can't, I think it's really
funny. That well, it's not funny but
like it's interesting that you, you present the topic you
(05:38):
present it and you're like, yeah.
And in my head, the like logicalpart of me is like, oh, that
makes a ton of sense. That's really important
conversation to have, but like my heart, my soul is like, I
feel deeply personally attacked,and again, come to my own
podcast to be attacked in this way.
And so it's like it's interesting because I feel like
(05:59):
like, I am often very guilty of that, but then I also struggle
with the Other Extreme, which iswhere I like my executive
dysfunction. Really does come into play and
so, it's hard. It's you have to be, I think
(06:19):
really fearless and really sort of like self-aware in terms of
knowing how to make that work. Does that make any sense?
You know what I mean? Yeah, I mean, it's rough.
It's a hard, it's a judgment call you constantly have to make
because you do have a legitimatemedical reason why it's really
(06:40):
hard for you to do dishes or it's really hard for you to
remember that appointment that you act like you do have a
legitimate medical reason. Yeah.
But I mean in my own life, I don't want to assume like that,
you know, I have a data set of one, I've only ever been me, but
like I have absolutely noticed that a lot of time.
Is I'll be sitting there and we'll dishes aren't done or
something's not done and I'll just sort of Blame A Team like
(07:00):
fuck my executive dysfunction sucks.
But if I'm honest with myself, half the times that I didn't do
the dishes and could have wasn'tfrom executive dysfunction it
was from me just not fucking yeah to which is you know,
something worth acknowledging. Yeah.
Well it's funny that we're having this conversation right
now because I literally just gotdone hiring a new Personal
(07:24):
assistant which is not as fancy as it sounds calm down.
They're going to help me like a couple of times a week.
You get to Bagels and stuff though bring it on up to the
office. You know, Donuts are big No-No
because of his virtual just for you.
Like because ritual doughnuts? Yeah.
Well, because the thing is, is that I realized and that it
really became part of the issue was that for for me, everything
(07:47):
leads to another thing, right? So it's like, oh, I made like,
this podcast is a great example.So Okay, so we're going to make
a podcast. Then we have to go to the
website and we have to upload itand I have to write a
description which you will remind me to do four times
before I actually do it and thenwe will release the episode and
(08:09):
then there needs to be an advertisement that gets done for
Instagram and an advertisement that gets done for Twitter.
And then ideally there would be an ad that gets done for Tick
Tock but they're not going to show anybody the fucking podcast
add anyway, so who cares? And then, you know, in a couple
months we also need to post it onto YouTube because that is a
(08:29):
new thing that YouTube is doing and so it's like work begets
work, be its work gets work and that feels so overwhelming.
But others other stuff like I was talking to them and I was
like, yeah, you know, like I really need help like setting up
my YouTube for subscriptions because right now I don't have
like the subscription thing set up and they were like, oh well
it is complicated. I was like, no, I'm just lazy
(08:51):
and I didn't want to do it, you know?
And so it's like I see See theseplaces where it's like, no
actually like that is very overwhelming.
Or like my executive function goes.
Oh, if I write the episode description, then it actually
means that I have to do seven separate tasks besides the
episode description. And so, I don't want to write
the episode description because then it means that I have to do
all this other work. Podcast breakthrough.
(09:13):
No. Oh, but then sometimes it's just
like, no, I don't want to do thefucking dishes or like, I don't
to do the laundry. But then the problem is, is then
we'll see. I don't want to steal your
phrase, could I please? Well, because yesterday you were
talking about past debt. Yeah.
And I started thinking about task debt and how like that
affects me too because it's like, why won't do the laundry.
(09:35):
Well, now there's two piles of laundry and then there's three
and then I was four, and now there's laundry mountain and
then I also have, you know what I mean?
And so, I'm things have just Stack Up and Stack Up and Stack
Up where it's like, I know reasonably that if I did the one
load, when it's like, just do the fucking thing, but I'm so
buried underneath like, yeah. Both the literal and proverbial
(09:57):
laundry Mountain that. Like it's really hard for me to
feel like I can get anything done.
Like and that's one of the reasons why I like, I think my
house is always so messy or because like are like, I'm
always like, so behind on the emails and stuff and it's
because it's like There's the seven other piles that I still
haven't done, or still haven't folded, or still haven't put
away and that feelsbadman, I mean, for me, I get what you're
(10:23):
saying. I think for me, I'm sorry.
I keep wiggling, but my back really hurts not.
So it's like his rooms for your back hurts.
What hurts so much it hurts likeass?
It does on, feels like it does, it feels like ass I've noticed
for me a lot in when that sort of Happens to me.
When the mountains start piling up.
It's often traceable back to oneinstant.
(10:48):
Yeah. Like I'm a moment of inaction.
Exactly. Like the first time you get into
debt. You know like I mean I think
that's a really good analogy like the first time you go oh
it's okay. I'll just put it on my credit
card or whatever and that startsa whole chain of fucking having
debt. Like, for me, you know, dishes,
for example, like dishes is my big thing.
So if I let's say, I'm starting with a completely, A clean
(11:11):
kitchen. Like, I go ham on the kitchen is
completely clean and the dishes.The sink is empty and I'm like
awful. Well, sweet starting from zero.
Lime liquid baby. Then we have like dinner one
night and there's like just a couple dishes and it just a
couple like not doing those dishes.
That's the moment, that's the moment.
(11:33):
And I think for me, although, you know, executive function is
or executive dysfunction is obviously a huge part of my
life. But in those moments, a lot of
times I just don't fucking want to.
I just don't like I want you. So I don't and it's and it's
small and you know it's easy forme to just completely jump off
of it and forget that it exists because, you know, I have
executive dysfunction so it's almost like I'm harnessing that
(11:54):
tend not do a thing and then that starts the process of you
know that Maybe once or twice. And now, there's a big thing of
dishes and now, it is executive,dysfunction.
Now, my brain is thinking, wheredo I start?
Do I clean this thing first to aclear space next to it, so I can
take the juices out to a clean. The sink before I clean, the
sanctuary feel both basins up with water when I was 11.
(12:14):
So P1 not like then it becomes executive dysfunction and then
it just piles up more and more because you run out of space has
to put dishes in the sink. They start spilling over to the
sides and then you're like, oh, I have to unload the dishwasher,
but I can't do that because there's no space on the counters
because there's dirty dishes andnow you're just in massive
quantities of task debt. It starts with those initial
little things and it very quickly becomes legitimate
(12:36):
executive dysfunction because once the task that piles up and
there's 20 different things, youknow, in order to do this, I
need to first do that. But in order to do that, I need
to First do this like that is absolutely legitimate executive
function, but that first time, or the first couple times for
me, I noticed that swear. I, that's where I mean, frankly,
the word is laziness where I know I could do it right now.
(12:57):
I have the like I'm standing there and I just Don't because I
don't want you and it starts theprocess.
Yeah, for me, I think though, toone of the things that I've been
realizing is that for me the test that goes back even further
to the to, like the real truth, which is like, it's always kind
(13:18):
of like embarrassing to admit because it's like, we spend so
much time talking about like systems and structures that work
for you, but like I don't have asystem in my kitchen, like, I
mean, the system that exists Youknow, is there like we keep the
plates there and we keep the Bulls there like, you know
whatever. But like I never really took the
time to think through wholesale like from scratch empty.
(13:44):
All the cupboards, all the drawers, everything and go.
Okay, what does my brain actually need to function in the
space? And I didn't do that anywhere
because I was thinking about this the other day, when I moved
into this house, I didn't know Ihad ADHD.
Oh yeah, I got Diagnosis after we moved in and so there was so
(14:04):
much of myself that I still didn't understand that.
Now like what five years on or whatever is like oh like I
really do need the pots to be onthe top of the dishes, to be,
you know, like whatever like II and so like there's a lot of
places where, like, I'm really struggling with that task debt,
(14:24):
because it starts at like the foundational, like how like,
where is the couch in the Room sort of thing.
And so, now I'm dealing with this double problem of, like,
I'm finally in a place where I think my antidepressants are are
starting to work more effectively, which is great.
But I buried under laundry mountain of all the stuff that I
(14:47):
didn't do. While my mental health was in
the toilet, but then also all ofthose mountains of stuff that I
have going on are stacked on topof the Of a system that actually
works for my brain because I never built anything that worked
for me because I thought my house had to be a certain way.
(15:07):
And so it's like like and then when I start realizing that, I
go oh, fuck like, and then that is like the executive
dysfunction of like just having to fix that and how big that is
of a problem to fix starts to feel really scary.
So then I just I just do the dishes that are there.
I hate where I put them away. I Hate all the bullshit in the
(15:30):
cabinets, and you know what I mean?
And so, it's like, I'm in that I'm living in this really weird
place, where, like, I'm really starting to understand like, how
much, like task debt. I've actually like accrued and
it is like, it's a foundational thing.
It is, it is like my entire homeis built on task debt, you know,
even like and even just stuff like, you know, like we're in
(15:52):
the process of finishing the basement.
And it's like, oh yeah, well, I'll unpack those boxes in a
couple of weeks and it's been Almost five years.
Yeah, and I don't know what's inthem anymore.
You know, and it's like should Iunpack them?
Should I go through them? Should I just take them on open
to the Goodwill? Because clearly I didn't need
(16:12):
anything, you know, and then that becomes in itself a task,
you know, and then that in itself becomes like okay, well
then, what if I what if I decideI want to keep everything in the
box, where do I put that know, that goes on the pile of, you
know. Yeah.
And so, yeah, it's I know that'snot exactly what you're talking
about. But it's just something that
I've I've been feeling so much my own life is just realizing
(16:33):
that I never actually set anything up.
In a way that works for me. Yeah, I just put stuff.
Where it got put and there it stayed.
And then there was the time whenmy mom came and rearranged my
entire kitchen without my consent.
(16:53):
Oh yeah, I'm still to this day. Finding shit that I was like,
oh, that's where that got put. But I'm like, I think I just
need to like clear off the dining room table, and spend a
day. Just clear everything like, move
out of the kitchen and go. Okay, moving back into the
kitchen. Yeah, yeah.
I was thinking, I keep, I could sing it like a bunch of
different analogies but I'll probably make all of them over
(17:15):
the course of This absurd. But so has been watching Better
Call Saul which is a television program.
A prequel to Breaking Bad is pretty cool.
It's a prequel. Yeah.
Starts it begins six years before Breaking Bad begins.
No spoilers. Don't worry but there's a scene
or there's like a thing that is happening where one of the big
(17:36):
like drug guys has this really big underground compound
underneath the laundromat and it's like super nice and it's
where he makes drugs. We're both white eventually
makes trucks. But in this show, you see it get
built and the idea is that there's this existing laundromat
a huge what? Not just like it.
Like I said, industrial laundromat.
And Gus Fring is trying to find a team of people to excavate
(17:59):
underneath it and basically makea huge thing, like compound
underneath an already existing compound.
So there's like an episode wherethey're interviewing people and
they're talking through how theywould do it.
And every time the, the Builder people, the perspective Builder,
people are like You know like yeah, actually this would be
really easy if there wasn't already an existing structure
(18:21):
here like, you know, putting up the wallet like yeah.
But as we excavate in blast and put in new things and put in
plumbing and electrical, we alsohave to maintain support for the
structure that's already there. And it makes everything way
harder turns it into a Monumental task.
Not to mention all has to be done secretly because it's
nobody's supposed to know it's there.
(18:42):
But I kind of think it's like that.
Where my house is a Drug Lawyer.You're right.
The refueling midair. And I know.
But that is, that's a really good analogy.
That's exactly. Thing is, such a good analysis,
like went for me, you know, whenmy apartment gets really bad or
any space gets really bad, if there aren't like, default
(19:05):
things, you know, I'm trying to avoid saying systems, but yeah,
systems in place, then you're trying to create those systems,
those foundations on the While you're actively living in a
space. There's already a bunch of shit
there. There's already garbage,
accruing, whatever. Where is like?
You just said, like, if you movecompletely out of somewhere, so
now not only is there not clutter, there's nothing in
(19:26):
there. Like, yeah, if you want to use
that shelf for that thing, it's clear like go for it and then
you put all the stuff that you want in there.
And then all the stuff that isn't in there at the end of it.
It's like, oh cool. Clearly I didn't don't need this
stuff, which is way easier than going through stuff.
That's already there. Another analogy I suppose would
be like refueling a plane mid-flight, you know, like Air
Force. One is flying.
I can Stay up there indefinitely.
(19:47):
So like other planes have to flyup next to it and fueled.
It's really cool. But obviously this way more hard
way more difficult than refueling on the ground and like
when you're trying to you know, reset your kitchen or something
like that and there are systems in place, you know.
It's like refueling midair. So like what in that analogy?
What would be the equivalent of Landing?
(20:08):
You know, such to refuel. And I think it's like kind of
what you just said, were, you know?
Yeah, I move completely out of it if you can and then set it
back at, that's a huge task. As Landing a fucking plane but
it's going to be easier to refuel once you're down there.
Yeah, okay. Now seems like as good a time as
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(20:30):
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But hey, we should keep talking about that thing that we were
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This episode. It's really it's going the best
(23:05):
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trains. Go get back to it.
Okay, here we go. Let's go.
Do do do, do do. I think the thing that I get
nervous about is that I've been using the metaphor of like
laundry Mountain, but like, I also know what has happened when
(23:28):
I tried that in the past, from like, I'm going to take
everything out of my closet, andthen I'm going to like, put
everything back my closet over there, reorganize, everything as
I go. And then what happens is I get
halfway to well, like, 30% through and then I run out of
steam and my executive dysfunction kicks in and then
I'm Literally sleeping on laundry Mountain for two weeks
(23:48):
and like, you know what I mean? And so like, that's what I'm
scared of is like, I really wantto.
I really wanted to take everything out of the kitchen
because I feel like also being able to sort of just like lay it
out and be like, okay, what is actually in this cabinet was
actually discovered, what do I actually use?
Like I feel like that would be like really fucking useful, but
I'm also scared that it's going to wind up where there's just
(24:10):
like cups on the floor of the living room for three weeks.
Yeah. And That scares me because
that's the part of my Executivesfunction that I can't control.
Yeah. Yeah.
Well I also, I want to point this.
I don't mean to like, press you on this because I was totally no
idea what you're talking about. Like it's really scary when you
fucking because my back hurts. Sure.
(24:31):
It's an honor but so I totally get like that.
I am scared shitless of that too.
But I've been asking myself thisquestion.
I also ask you this question, How much of that is learning
competence? Because the fear for me, is that
I will clear everything off the whatever.
Let's say the kitchen. You know, I'll clear everything
out of the kitchen instead, it all out, and whatever.
(24:53):
And then, yeah, stop giving a shit and be fucking done with
it. And then I'm screwed because all
my shits all over the place. But This is not minimizing
executive, Sergeant least, I'm not attempting to, but you can
force yourself to do things. You don't want to do.
This is like you can. It's harder when you have ADHD
(25:14):
but you can do it. Like you can physically force
your body to move in the ways that it needs to do.
It sucks hella dicks. Like, it's awful.
I mean, I was doing wrong with sucking dicks.
But you know what I mean? Like, it sucks really bad, but
you can force yourself to do it,and it probably ultimately sucks
less than getting into the previous struggle, where
everything's just fucking all over.
Our house and whatever. So like I guess I'm asking you
(25:35):
like how much do you think, how much of your fear that that's
going to happen? Is you just assuming that it's
going to and just assuming that you are going to fail at that?
Fuck you are now to say. Sorry.
No. You're right.
But actually in the middle like literally you know how sometimes
when you have ADHD and you just know what somebody's going to
say at the end of the sense. Yeah.
You gotta like patiently, wait for them.
Yeah. I realized halfway through what
(25:58):
you were saying that I already knew why I do that.
And it's like trauma. And this is because growing up,
I would do that all the time. I would like do the thing where
I'd like, pull everything out and like, having a free organize
my desk and I'm gonna be perfect, so good clean
everything out of my closet. And I would do that, then I'll
get to the end and I'll be like,look and then one of my parents
(26:22):
would be like, wow, that's a great start or like, wow, we'll
see how long it lasts. Oh God, you know like wow.
Like you know what I mean? So I think like, yeah, I really
think like, if I'm being honest,I think some of that sort of
defeat ism is learned incompetence, but I learned it
(26:45):
not because like I chose incompetence but because I just
got told that, like, whenever I was at the end of the project
know, I actually wasn't. And so like, then there's also
that perfectionist string of like, we're like, so like, it
sounds like, like inside me are to Dragons, you know?
And it's like I have that 8hd dragon and I have the autism
(27:06):
dragon and for me like one of the greatest joys of my life is
aligning stuff up. Like I fuck like it feels good.
It feels good. You know?
And so it's like, I'll take the dishes and all I could take, you
lessly stack, the cups, you know, and align the cups up or
(27:26):
whatever. But then my ADHD goes, that's so
funny. And so then it sounds like they
start really nicely and then by the end, they're just like, do
like, you know how I keep the Pint cups.
So they're just it's just like the absolute chaos and it's
because like my ADHD doesn't want to take the time and my
autism like wants me to take thetime and so I compromised by
(27:47):
just like doing it as quick as Ican to get it over with.
And so like I wonder also like in something that I've really
been thinking about is like I'vebeen so Duvall.
So sorry, dear listeners. My therapist was off this week,
so I guess this is just, this isjust what we're doing for
therapy this week, but also, some of that is like, I'm just
(28:08):
so divorced from, like, a lot ofmy like feelings and like, how I
process feeling. So I'm just like, I don't like
that, don't like feeling those feelings.
Let's just not. And so I wonder like, if I don't
really like mindfulness, can I fucking hate that word, but like
an intentionality behind that Yeah.
Sorry fucking I don't even want to get started on how much I
(28:30):
hate fucking my next time. We know.
Um but like intentionality you know if it's like okay like I'm
going to take everything out of the cabinets.
I'm going to sort through everything and what nothing I
can't save all the podcast and then I'm gonna guess in my head
for the rest of us. It's fine.
I'm just going to say Eric is wearing gray sweatpants and half
(28:52):
our audience. Is going to know what that means
and half aren't and I know what that means.
You just did. To find the shit out of me dead
cause you're hot and you can't even okay.
I'm sorry. You can edit that part out of me
but I might. Um but yeah, so intentionality.
Yeah, I got distracted. That's okay.
What did you do get distracted by all right.
(29:13):
Sorry cute. You're a hot little guy?
No I mean I think it's a cool guy like it's cute.
Cute little Q everything Shucks.I got my Jimmy tart headband on
you do. It's a good headband.
Thanks um no I mean I think learned incompetence enhanced or
inflamed by trauma is a big thing.
(29:35):
Yeah and I mean for me definitely but it seems like in
the ADHD Community were something.
Well, I mean like In your case, not only did you have to worry
about not finishing, something even when you did think you
finished a parent parent will figure will come up to you and
say actually no, you're fucking not.
Yeah, actually, I can't imagine him.
Whoo, but I think that's maybe, I think maybe we just
(29:55):
accidentally hit on something that's like really important.
Is that learned, incompetence doesn't have to be something
that you decided, and it can be have have been taught to you,
which also feels like a little bit of, like, like learning.
It's in terms of like lard to confidence, like I was not my
fault, but like, I think for a lot of neurodivergent people
(30:17):
like, once you really start looking back at like how you
were treated, especially before your diagnosis.
If you're like a late diagnosis person, I think like a lot of
the, the incompetence that is Learned was like, not you like,
it wasn't your fault, it was things like, you know, like, oh,
I'm done cleaning my room. No, you're not, or, we'll see
(30:37):
how long it lasts for, like, whatever.
And that's, you learning, but not.
Not actively like it's not you just trying to like oh I'm gonna
do a shitty job so I don't have to do it ever again.
Which is like sort of the idea of learning competence.
It's the exact opposite thing where you are trying to do the
best job that you possibly can. And everybody around you looks
(30:57):
at you and goes well your desk too messy or your backpack is to
Bessie or your binder is too disorganized.
I mean I would still call that learned incompetence to you
know, if I could get a little wordy.
That's like there could be like autodidactic learned,
incompetence and Clarinda confidence.
Where like is it an external thing like, did you think you
were doing fine? And then somebody told you, you
fucking weren't a million times.And so you thought, so you
(31:18):
learned, oh, I guess I suck at that.
Or are you yourself thinking? Like, wow, I suck at this and
therefore, I must forever suck at this, you know, I think there
are two different types of, I think one.
And when you talk about, when you're talking trauma, I mean,
that's just a match made in heaven.
I think when you're, you know, Iknow, I mean, I think for me, a
(31:39):
lot of my worst learned incompetence is I S autodidactic
learning competence which is themost pretentious fucking thing
up. But, you know, I taught myself
the thing that I learned, the fact that I was incompetent,
something is probably school just because I mean, I need
Finance what, you know, I wasn'tit.
I just had a really, really hardtime with it legitimately like,
for legitimate reasons, but thatwas 10 years ago.
(32:01):
Now I'm a different person. Now, I have strategies and tools
and I know more about it. Eh, Deno know more about myself
and my wants and my strengths and weaknesses are not stuff.
Like who's to say, if I went back to school, it wouldn't go
well. But it's still just in my head
it's like a relic you know of just like no I can't do school
anytime. I'm like oh I need to get some
credentials for this, it's just factual but I can't do school
(32:22):
and that's Maybe true or maybe not and I don't know.
I I know, I know none of this ismeant to sort of blame people
know for their own. I mean, if anything, I think
it's hopeful yeah, is it something is, if something is
your fault and you can fix it, you know, And so, I don't know.
(32:43):
I mean, it's you cut you off quickly.
We also should probably ends his, you have a fancy cool game
to play well, but no, I mean, I think like actually, like, it
makes me feel better because like, I think one of the things
that I really have realizing just like, talking this through
here, is like, there's so many places were like, I am confident
(33:04):
in like how I do things and I amconfident in like oh I do like
it with my closet as a certain way or my desk is a certain way
or whatever. I just got Told over and over
and over again. It wasn't good enough for.
That's not how your, you know, quote unquote supposed to do
your laundry and it's like, who the fuck says?
And I think that's like the thing that we've been trying to
teach people the whole time. Yeah, absolutely.
(33:25):
It's your standards that matter.You know.
If your room. Yeah.
Absolutely. Well do you want to say the cool
outro thing that I always screw up.
Yeah. Hey everybody.
Thanks so much for listening. Thanks so much.
I'll be back. Thanks again to our sponsors
geek Therapeutics key Therapeutics and also don't
forget to eat Back drink, some water, take your meds be kind to
yourself, be kind of others and remember that we love you.
(33:48):
We'll be back next week with more TT RPG goodness and maybe
some conversations about the eighty HD.
Yeah. Hi everybody.
Thanks for being here.
Hi Kitty. Hi Eric.
I would take a long time to get room sound that time.
That's okay. Bailey really close to cap it
around. Also, I just was ticked, really
hard? Did you really?
Yeah, it's really point. I want to see if I can hear it.
I'm going back hurts. Hi everybody.
Welcome back to infinite question.
(00:28):
You psyched me out on that one. Well, I bet that's the bid is
still funny after 100 million. I bet that everybody's like, oh
boy, I wonder what hilarious butthey're going to do for that.
Which door is opening? Send us an email at asking if no
(00:50):
Quest podcast if you heard the garage door opening.
Anyway, see you I'm kind of okaywith it.
You know, why? I've been thinking about it.
Like, you are so great at audio and you're so great at making a
podcast. And we're in our cool new fancy
podcast boost. Go to my Instagram and see the
picture of it. But here's the dealio, we're
(01:11):
Also, just people we are going to podcasts.
That is true. Our spare room Estelle's.
I figured out today, finally, how to get the radio signals to
not come in, through the things?I'm really excited about this
whole thing because apparently it's like the weather, affects
it like the pressure in the atmosphere changes.
How radio signal, like II was a whole thing.
But I'm really proud of, so, hopefully, the sounds real nice.
(01:34):
I don't know. I hope I bet it does.
I bet it sounds incredible and amazing also Eric.
Yeah. What.
Are we going to talk about? Say you said, you had a pitch.
I had a pitch and I feel like I didn't want it.
I was too like think well I don't think about I didn't want
you to think about it like to too much before we like started.
So you have veto power for this pitch.
Okay, Bailey is sold separately.Go out the door.
(01:59):
Anyways, so I posted a video on the old ticket to talk talk.
Talk that I've had a, my drafts forever, some version of it, my
drafts forever. Okay?
But I've noticed that I hadn't been making eighty HD content on
Tick-Tock very much lately, because I was seeing a lot of
videos of people saying, like, do you have ADHD try this?
(02:20):
Do you have any to do? Try this Jeremy's do.
Try this. And the comments just full of
people saying, like, thanks. I'm cured or like calling them
ableist or You know, assuming that they insinuated their
insinuating that like the the reason they're struggling is
just because they are shitty andnot because they have a mental
disorder which sometimes is whatpeople are saying.
And those people go fuck themselves.
(02:42):
But I've just noticed there's a sort of cycle of trauma of.
If you have ADHD your whole life, you've been told by a lot
of people that oh, you're just not doing this.
And if you applied yourself you do better.
And your backpack looks like shit because you're a piece of
shit. You know, first grade Eric
that's nobody's called. Me a piece of shit, although I'm
sure somebody probably called mea piece of shit.
(03:03):
When I was in fourth grade is not to my face, this in the
Teachers Lounge Miss Burrell Ellis and they're like yeah
carrots kids real piece of shit.No really.
So I only please my love please.Everything's different now is
new. Smells you know.
So where's your collar? I took it off because I'll
signals okay. Smart guy, right?
Yeah, it's a perfectly reasonable like trauma response
(03:24):
to like since you've been told your whole life?
I would, you just do this that, you know, when you see somebody
say, hey, have you tried? It using a fucking planner or,
you know, putting your hamper wear the clothes tend to pile up
rather than where you think it should be, or whatever it like,
it's reasonable to think like fuck you like this isn't that
simple, you know, it's much morecomplicated than it is.
(03:45):
And I think that often my default is that a lot of the
time, but it got me scared to, like, talk about ADHD life,
hacks or whatever, how one mightmanage it because I was afraid
of being called ablest and I wasafraid I would You know, I don't
know, I was afraid. I was talking to an audience
that wasn't trying to hear it, you know.
(04:07):
Anyway. So I post the video basically,
talking about how one you're doing yourself, a huge
disservice when you discredit someone's advice, even if it's
in bad faith because get that, get this to get dig this.
When someone gives you advice. It's not about them.
It's about you. You might be able to benefit
from that device, even if they give you advice in bad faith,
like just be like, oh, mate. What are they, right?
(04:29):
And if That fucking but like youshouldn't just assume somebody's
wrong because they're being a dick.
Like the ability to learn from people you don't like is very
important thing. Anyways, so that got me thinking
a lot about, you know, are therestrategies and stuff that I
discredit. Because either the person who
suggested them to me, is somebody I don't like or
somebody who was part of the whole idea.
HD, trauma thing, when I was a kid and how much learned
(04:51):
incompetence do I have, like, inmy life Bailey, you're so
fucking adorable, but Jesus body.
She's old podcast dog. She's a little pockets to be.
She wants to have her. This is the Bailey asaurus
section. They also spilled french fries.
They're like two days ago. So wow.
She's probably still set him up.But anyways, that's just to say,
(05:13):
I've been, I've been thinking about, I've been trying to find
like, learned in confidence in my own life and think, like, are
there any things that I could bedoing to make my life?
Even like one percent better than I'm not doing?
Because I just assumed that I can't, I think it's really
funny. That well, it's not funny but
like it's interesting that you, you present the topic you
(05:38):
present it and you're like, yeah.
And in my head, the like logicalpart of me is like, oh, that
makes a ton of sense. That's really important
conversation to have, but like my heart, my soul is like, I
feel deeply personally attacked,and again, come to my own
podcast to be attacked in this way.
And so it's like it's interesting because I feel like
(05:59):
like, I am often very guilty of that, but then I also struggle
with the Other Extreme, which iswhere I like my executive
dysfunction. Really does come into play and
so, it's hard. It's you have to be, I think
(06:19):
really fearless and really sort of like self-aware in terms of
knowing how to make that work. Does that make any sense?
You know what I mean? Yeah, I mean, it's rough.
It's a hard, it's a judgment call you constantly have to make
because you do have a legitimatemedical reason why it's really
(06:40):
hard for you to do dishes or it's really hard for you to
remember that appointment that you act like you do have a
legitimate medical reason. Yeah.
But I mean in my own life, I don't want to assume like that,
you know, I have a data set of one, I've only ever been me, but
like I have absolutely noticed that a lot of time.
Is I'll be sitting there and we'll dishes aren't done or
something's not done and I'll just sort of Blame A Team like
(07:00):
fuck my executive dysfunction sucks.
But if I'm honest with myself, half the times that I didn't do
the dishes and could have wasn'tfrom executive dysfunction it
was from me just not fucking yeah to which is you know,
something worth acknowledging. Yeah.
Well it's funny that we're having this conversation right
now because I literally just gotdone hiring a new Personal
(07:24):
assistant which is not as fancy as it sounds calm down.
They're going to help me like a couple of times a week.
You get to Bagels and stuff though bring it on up to the
office. You know, Donuts are big No-No
because of his virtual just for you.
Like because ritual doughnuts? Yeah.
Well, because the thing is, is that I realized and that it
really became part of the issue was that for for me, everything
(07:47):
leads to another thing, right? So it's like, oh, I made like,
this podcast is a great example.So Okay, so we're going to make
a podcast. Then we have to go to the
website and we have to upload itand I have to write a
description which you will remind me to do four times
before I actually do it and thenwe will release the episode and
(08:09):
then there needs to be an advertisement that gets done for
Instagram and an advertisement that gets done for Twitter.
And then ideally there would be an ad that gets done for Tick
Tock but they're not going to show anybody the fucking podcast
add anyway, so who cares? And then, you know, in a couple
months we also need to post it onto YouTube because that is a
(08:29):
new thing that YouTube is doing and so it's like work begets
work, be its work gets work and that feels so overwhelming.
But others other stuff like I was talking to them and I was
like, yeah, you know, like I really need help like setting up
my YouTube for subscriptions because right now I don't have
like the subscription thing set up and they were like, oh well
it is complicated. I was like, no, I'm just lazy
(08:51):
and I didn't want to do it, you know?
And so it's like I see See theseplaces where it's like, no
actually like that is very overwhelming.
Or like my executive function goes.
Oh, if I write the episode description, then it actually
means that I have to do seven separate tasks besides the
episode description. And so, I don't want to write
the episode description because then it means that I have to do
all this other work. Podcast breakthrough.
(09:13):
No. Oh, but then sometimes it's just
like, no, I don't want to do thefucking dishes or like, I don't
to do the laundry. But then the problem is, is then
we'll see. I don't want to steal your
phrase, could I please? Well, because yesterday you were
talking about past debt. Yeah.
And I started thinking about task debt and how like that
affects me too because it's like, why won't do the laundry.
(09:35):
Well, now there's two piles of laundry and then there's three
and then I was four, and now there's laundry mountain and
then I also have, you know what I mean?
And so, I'm things have just Stack Up and Stack Up and Stack
Up where it's like, I know reasonably that if I did the one
load, when it's like, just do the fucking thing, but I'm so
buried underneath like, yeah. Both the literal and proverbial
(09:57):
laundry Mountain that. Like it's really hard for me to
feel like I can get anything done.
Like and that's one of the reasons why I like, I think my
house is always so messy or because like are like, I'm
always like, so behind on the emails and stuff and it's
because it's like There's the seven other piles that I still
haven't done, or still haven't folded, or still haven't put
away and that feelsbadman, I mean, for me, I get what you're
(10:23):
saying. I think for me, I'm sorry.
I keep wiggling, but my back really hurts not.
So it's like his rooms for your back hurts.
What hurts so much it hurts likeass?
It does on, feels like it does, it feels like ass I've noticed
for me a lot in when that sort of Happens to me.
When the mountains start piling up.
It's often traceable back to oneinstant.
(10:48):
Yeah. Like I'm a moment of inaction.
Exactly. Like the first time you get into
debt. You know like I mean I think
that's a really good analogy like the first time you go oh
it's okay. I'll just put it on my credit
card or whatever and that startsa whole chain of fucking having
debt. Like, for me, you know, dishes,
for example, like dishes is my big thing.
So if I let's say, I'm starting with a completely, A clean
(11:11):
kitchen. Like, I go ham on the kitchen is
completely clean and the dishes.The sink is empty and I'm like
awful. Well, sweet starting from zero.
Lime liquid baby. Then we have like dinner one
night and there's like just a couple dishes and it just a
couple like not doing those dishes.
That's the moment, that's the moment.
(11:33):
And I think for me, although, you know, executive function is
or executive dysfunction is obviously a huge part of my
life. But in those moments, a lot of
times I just don't fucking want to.
I just don't like I want you. So I don't and it's and it's
small and you know it's easy forme to just completely jump off
of it and forget that it exists because, you know, I have
executive dysfunction so it's almost like I'm harnessing that
(11:54):
tend not do a thing and then that starts the process of you
know that Maybe once or twice. And now, there's a big thing of
dishes and now, it is executive,dysfunction.
Now, my brain is thinking, wheredo I start?
Do I clean this thing first to aclear space next to it, so I can
take the juices out to a clean. The sink before I clean, the
sanctuary feel both basins up with water when I was 11.
(12:14):
So P1 not like then it becomes executive dysfunction and then
it just piles up more and more because you run out of space has
to put dishes in the sink. They start spilling over to the
sides and then you're like, oh, I have to unload the dishwasher,
but I can't do that because there's no space on the counters
because there's dirty dishes andnow you're just in massive
quantities of task debt. It starts with those initial
little things and it very quickly becomes legitimate
(12:36):
executive dysfunction because once the task that piles up and
there's 20 different things, youknow, in order to do this, I
need to first do that. But in order to do that, I need
to First do this like that is absolutely legitimate executive
function, but that first time, or the first couple times for
me, I noticed that swear. I, that's where I mean, frankly,
the word is laziness where I know I could do it right now.
(12:57):
I have the like I'm standing there and I just Don't because I
don't want you and it starts theprocess.
Yeah, for me, I think though, toone of the things that I've been
realizing is that for me the test that goes back even further
to the to, like the real truth, which is like, it's always kind
(13:18):
of like embarrassing to admit because it's like, we spend so
much time talking about like systems and structures that work
for you, but like I don't have asystem in my kitchen, like, I
mean, the system that exists Youknow, is there like we keep the
plates there and we keep the Bulls there like, you know
whatever. But like I never really took the
time to think through wholesale like from scratch empty.
(13:44):
All the cupboards, all the drawers, everything and go.
Okay, what does my brain actually need to function in the
space? And I didn't do that anywhere
because I was thinking about this the other day, when I moved
into this house, I didn't know Ihad ADHD.
Oh yeah, I got Diagnosis after we moved in and so there was so
(14:04):
much of myself that I still didn't understand that.
Now like what five years on or whatever is like oh like I
really do need the pots to be onthe top of the dishes, to be,
you know, like whatever like II and so like there's a lot of
places where, like, I'm really struggling with that task debt,
(14:24):
because it starts at like the foundational, like how like,
where is the couch in the Room sort of thing.
And so, now I'm dealing with this double problem of, like,
I'm finally in a place where I think my antidepressants are are
starting to work more effectively, which is great.
But I buried under laundry mountain of all the stuff that I
(14:47):
didn't do. While my mental health was in
the toilet, but then also all ofthose mountains of stuff that I
have going on are stacked on topof the Of a system that actually
works for my brain because I never built anything that worked
for me because I thought my house had to be a certain way.
(15:07):
And so it's like like and then when I start realizing that, I
go oh, fuck like, and then that is like the executive
dysfunction of like just having to fix that and how big that is
of a problem to fix starts to feel really scary.
So then I just I just do the dishes that are there.
I hate where I put them away. I Hate all the bullshit in the
(15:30):
cabinets, and you know what I mean?
And so, it's like, I'm in that I'm living in this really weird
place, where, like, I'm really starting to understand like, how
much, like task debt. I've actually like accrued and
it is like, it's a foundational thing.
It is, it is like my entire homeis built on task debt, you know,
even like and even just stuff like, you know, like we're in
(15:52):
the process of finishing the basement.
And it's like, oh yeah, well, I'll unpack those boxes in a
couple of weeks and it's been Almost five years.
Yeah, and I don't know what's inthem anymore.
You know, and it's like should Iunpack them?
Should I go through them? Should I just take them on open
to the Goodwill? Because clearly I didn't need
(16:12):
anything, you know, and then that becomes in itself a task,
you know, and then that in itself becomes like okay, well
then, what if I what if I decideI want to keep everything in the
box, where do I put that know, that goes on the pile of, you
know. Yeah.
And so, yeah, it's I know that'snot exactly what you're talking
about. But it's just something that
I've I've been feeling so much my own life is just realizing
(16:33):
that I never actually set anything up.
In a way that works for me. Yeah, I just put stuff.
Where it got put and there it stayed.
And then there was the time whenmy mom came and rearranged my
entire kitchen without my consent.
(16:53):
Oh yeah, I'm still to this day. Finding shit that I was like,
oh, that's where that got put. But I'm like, I think I just
need to like clear off the dining room table, and spend a
day. Just clear everything like, move
out of the kitchen and go. Okay, moving back into the
kitchen. Yeah, yeah.
I was thinking, I keep, I could sing it like a bunch of
different analogies but I'll probably make all of them over
(17:15):
the course of This absurd. But so has been watching Better
Call Saul which is a television program.
A prequel to Breaking Bad is pretty cool.
It's a prequel. Yeah.
Starts it begins six years before Breaking Bad begins.
No spoilers. Don't worry but there's a scene
or there's like a thing that is happening where one of the big
(17:36):
like drug guys has this really big underground compound
underneath the laundromat and it's like super nice and it's
where he makes drugs. We're both white eventually
makes trucks. But in this show, you see it get
built and the idea is that there's this existing laundromat
a huge what? Not just like it.
Like I said, industrial laundromat.
And Gus Fring is trying to find a team of people to excavate
(17:59):
underneath it and basically makea huge thing, like compound
underneath an already existing compound.
So there's like an episode wherethey're interviewing people and
they're talking through how theywould do it.
And every time the, the Builder people, the perspective Builder,
people are like You know like yeah, actually this would be
really easy if there wasn't already an existing structure
(18:21):
here like, you know, putting up the wallet like yeah.
But as we excavate in blast and put in new things and put in
plumbing and electrical, we alsohave to maintain support for the
structure that's already there. And it makes everything way
harder turns it into a Monumental task.
Not to mention all has to be done secretly because it's
nobody's supposed to know it's there.
(18:42):
But I kind of think it's like that.
Where my house is a Drug Lawyer.You're right.
The refueling midair. And I know.
But that is, that's a really good analogy.
That's exactly. Thing is, such a good analysis,
like went for me, you know, whenmy apartment gets really bad or
any space gets really bad, if there aren't like, default
(19:05):
things, you know, I'm trying to avoid saying systems, but yeah,
systems in place, then you're trying to create those systems,
those foundations on the While you're actively living in a
space. There's already a bunch of shit
there. There's already garbage,
accruing, whatever. Where is like?
You just said, like, if you movecompletely out of somewhere, so
now not only is there not clutter, there's nothing in
(19:26):
there. Like, yeah, if you want to use
that shelf for that thing, it's clear like go for it and then
you put all the stuff that you want in there.
And then all the stuff that isn't in there at the end of it.
It's like, oh cool. Clearly I didn't don't need this
stuff, which is way easier than going through stuff.
That's already there. Another analogy I suppose would
be like refueling a plane mid-flight, you know, like Air
Force. One is flying.
I can Stay up there indefinitely.
(19:47):
So like other planes have to flyup next to it and fueled.
It's really cool. But obviously this way more hard
way more difficult than refueling on the ground and like
when you're trying to you know, reset your kitchen or something
like that and there are systems in place, you know.
It's like refueling midair. So like what in that analogy?
What would be the equivalent of Landing?
(20:08):
You know, such to refuel. And I think it's like kind of
what you just said, were, you know?
Yeah, I move completely out of it if you can and then set it
back at, that's a huge task. As Landing a fucking plane but
it's going to be easier to refuel once you're down there.
Yeah, okay. Now seems like as good a time as
any to talk about our new sponsor even geek therapeutic.
(20:30):
That's the very same one. You mean the fine folks?
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Red hot go. That's a pro right there.
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Yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about.
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With geek Therapeutics, they're an organization that we are
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They killed, they specialize in things like Supernatural
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And several more that we can tell you about.
But we know about because, and working with them and we're
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They offer cultural competency courses to encourage, diversity
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They offer just a whole geek therapeutic in certification
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There's some pretty amazing classes on there and if you're
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stuff we're about to be doing what we're going to be hearing a
lot about us and geek Therapeutics in the coming while
and I'm so stoked about, it's gonna be amazing.
But hey, we should keep talking about that thing that we were
talking. Oh yeah.
This episode. It's really it's going the best
(23:05):
one I've ever long. Hard to chew on the chugging
trains. Go get back to it.
Okay, here we go. Let's go.
Do do do, do do. I think the thing that I get
nervous about is that I've been using the metaphor of like
laundry Mountain, but like, I also know what has happened when
(23:28):
I tried that in the past, from like, I'm going to take
everything out of my closet, andthen I'm going to like, put
everything back my closet over there, reorganize, everything as
I go. And then what happens is I get
halfway to well, like, 30% through and then I run out of
steam and my executive dysfunction kicks in and then
I'm Literally sleeping on laundry Mountain for two weeks
(23:48):
and like, you know what I mean? And so like, that's what I'm
scared of is like, I really wantto.
I really wanted to take everything out of the kitchen
because I feel like also being able to sort of just like lay it
out and be like, okay, what is actually in this cabinet was
actually discovered, what do I actually use?
Like I feel like that would be like really fucking useful, but
I'm also scared that it's going to wind up where there's just
(24:10):
like cups on the floor of the living room for three weeks.
Yeah. And That scares me because
that's the part of my Executivesfunction that I can't control.
Yeah. Yeah.
Well I also, I want to point this.
I don't mean to like, press you on this because I was totally no
idea what you're talking about. Like it's really scary when you
fucking because my back hurts. Sure.
(24:31):
It's an honor but so I totally get like that.
I am scared shitless of that too.
But I've been asking myself thisquestion.
I also ask you this question, How much of that is learning
competence? Because the fear for me, is that
I will clear everything off the whatever.
Let's say the kitchen. You know, I'll clear everything
out of the kitchen instead, it all out, and whatever.
(24:53):
And then, yeah, stop giving a shit and be fucking done with
it. And then I'm screwed because all
my shits all over the place. But This is not minimizing
executive, Sergeant least, I'm not attempting to, but you can
force yourself to do things. You don't want to do.
This is like you can. It's harder when you have ADHD
(25:14):
but you can do it. Like you can physically force
your body to move in the ways that it needs to do.
It sucks hella dicks. Like, it's awful.
I mean, I was doing wrong with sucking dicks.
But you know what I mean? Like, it sucks really bad, but
you can force yourself to do it,and it probably ultimately sucks
less than getting into the previous struggle, where
everything's just fucking all over.
Our house and whatever. So like I guess I'm asking you
(25:35):
like how much do you think, how much of your fear that that's
going to happen? Is you just assuming that it's
going to and just assuming that you are going to fail at that?
Fuck you are now to say. Sorry.
No. You're right.
But actually in the middle like literally you know how sometimes
when you have ADHD and you just know what somebody's going to
say at the end of the sense. Yeah.
You gotta like patiently, wait for them.
Yeah. I realized halfway through what
(25:58):
you were saying that I already knew why I do that.
And it's like trauma. And this is because growing up,
I would do that all the time. I would like do the thing where
I'd like, pull everything out and like, having a free organize
my desk and I'm gonna be perfect, so good clean
everything out of my closet. And I would do that, then I'll
get to the end and I'll be like,look and then one of my parents
(26:22):
would be like, wow, that's a great start or like, wow, we'll
see how long it lasts. Oh God, you know like wow.
Like you know what I mean? So I think like, yeah, I really
think like, if I'm being honest,I think some of that sort of
defeat ism is learned incompetence, but I learned it
(26:45):
not because like I chose incompetence but because I just
got told that, like, whenever I was at the end of the project
know, I actually wasn't. And so like, then there's also
that perfectionist string of like, we're like, so like, it
sounds like, like inside me are to Dragons, you know?
And it's like I have that 8hd dragon and I have the autism
(27:06):
dragon and for me like one of the greatest joys of my life is
aligning stuff up. Like I fuck like it feels good.
It feels good. You know?
And so it's like, I'll take the dishes and all I could take, you
lessly stack, the cups, you know, and align the cups up or
(27:26):
whatever. But then my ADHD goes, that's so
funny. And so then it sounds like they
start really nicely and then by the end, they're just like, do
like, you know how I keep the Pint cups.
So they're just it's just like the absolute chaos and it's
because like my ADHD doesn't want to take the time and my
autism like wants me to take thetime and so I compromised by
(27:47):
just like doing it as quick as Ican to get it over with.
And so like I wonder also like in something that I've really
been thinking about is like I'vebeen so Duvall.
So sorry, dear listeners. My therapist was off this week,
so I guess this is just, this isjust what we're doing for
therapy this week, but also, some of that is like, I'm just
(28:08):
so divorced from, like, a lot ofmy like feelings and like, how I
process feeling. So I'm just like, I don't like
that, don't like feeling those feelings.
Let's just not. And so I wonder like, if I don't
really like mindfulness, can I fucking hate that word, but like
an intentionality behind that Yeah.
Sorry fucking I don't even want to get started on how much I
(28:30):
hate fucking my next time. We know.
Um but like intentionality you know if it's like okay like I'm
going to take everything out of the cabinets.
I'm going to sort through everything and what nothing I
can't save all the podcast and then I'm gonna guess in my head
for the rest of us. It's fine.
I'm just going to say Eric is wearing gray sweatpants and half
(28:52):
our audience. Is going to know what that means
and half aren't and I know what that means.
You just did. To find the shit out of me dead
cause you're hot and you can't even okay.
I'm sorry. You can edit that part out of me
but I might. Um but yeah, so intentionality.
Yeah, I got distracted. That's okay.
What did you do get distracted by all right.
(29:13):
Sorry cute. You're a hot little guy?
No I mean I think it's a cool guy like it's cute.
Cute little Q everything Shucks.I got my Jimmy tart headband on
you do. It's a good headband.
Thanks um no I mean I think learned incompetence enhanced or
inflamed by trauma is a big thing.
(29:35):
Yeah and I mean for me definitely but it seems like in
the ADHD Community were something.
Well, I mean like In your case, not only did you have to worry
about not finishing, something even when you did think you
finished a parent parent will figure will come up to you and
say actually no, you're fucking not.
Yeah, actually, I can't imagine him.
Whoo, but I think that's maybe, I think maybe we just
(29:55):
accidentally hit on something that's like really important.
Is that learned, incompetence doesn't have to be something
that you decided, and it can be have have been taught to you,
which also feels like a little bit of, like, like learning.
It's in terms of like lard to confidence, like I was not my
fault, but like, I think for a lot of neurodivergent people
(30:17):
like, once you really start looking back at like how you
were treated, especially before your diagnosis.
If you're like a late diagnosis person, I think like a lot of
the, the incompetence that is Learned was like, not you like,
it wasn't your fault, it was things like, you know, like, oh,
I'm done cleaning my room. No, you're not, or, we'll see
(30:37):
how long it lasts for, like, whatever.
And that's, you learning, but not.
Not actively like it's not you just trying to like oh I'm gonna
do a shitty job so I don't have to do it ever again.
Which is like sort of the idea of learning competence.
It's the exact opposite thing where you are trying to do the
best job that you possibly can. And everybody around you looks
(30:57):
at you and goes well your desk too messy or your backpack is to
Bessie or your binder is too disorganized.
I mean I would still call that learned incompetence to you
know, if I could get a little wordy.
That's like there could be like autodidactic learned,
incompetence and Clarinda confidence.
Where like is it an external thing like, did you think you
were doing fine? And then somebody told you, you
fucking weren't a million times.And so you thought, so you
(31:18):
learned, oh, I guess I suck at that.
Or are you yourself thinking? Like, wow, I suck at this and
therefore, I must forever suck at this, you know, I think there
are two different types of, I think one.
And when you talk about, when you're talking trauma, I mean,
that's just a match made in heaven.
I think when you're, you know, Iknow, I mean, I think for me, a
(31:39):
lot of my worst learned incompetence is I S autodidactic
learning competence which is themost pretentious fucking thing
up. But, you know, I taught myself
the thing that I learned, the fact that I was incompetent,
something is probably school just because I mean, I need
Finance what, you know, I wasn'tit.
I just had a really, really hardtime with it legitimately like,
for legitimate reasons, but thatwas 10 years ago.
(32:01):
Now I'm a different person. Now, I have strategies and tools
and I know more about it. Eh, Deno know more about myself
and my wants and my strengths and weaknesses are not stuff.
Like who's to say, if I went back to school, it wouldn't go
well. But it's still just in my head
it's like a relic you know of just like no I can't do school
anytime. I'm like oh I need to get some
credentials for this, it's just factual but I can't do school
(32:22):
and that's Maybe true or maybe not and I don't know.
I I know, I know none of this ismeant to sort of blame people
know for their own. I mean, if anything, I think
it's hopeful yeah, is it something is, if something is
your fault and you can fix it, you know, And so, I don't know.
(32:43):
I mean, it's you cut you off quickly.
We also should probably ends his, you have a fancy cool game
to play well, but no, I mean, I think like actually, like, it
makes me feel better because like, I think one of the things
that I really have realizing just like, talking this through
here, is like, there's so many places were like, I am confident
(33:04):
in like how I do things and I amconfident in like oh I do like
it with my closet as a certain way or my desk is a certain way
or whatever. I just got Told over and over
and over again. It wasn't good enough for.
That's not how your, you know, quote unquote supposed to do
your laundry and it's like, who the fuck says?
And I think that's like the thing that we've been trying to
teach people the whole time. Yeah, absolutely.
(33:25):
It's your standards that matter.You know.
If your room. Yeah.
Absolutely. Well do you want to say the cool
outro thing that I always screw up.
Yeah. Hey everybody.
Thanks so much for listening. Thanks so much.
I'll be back. Thanks again to our sponsors
geek Therapeutics key Therapeutics and also don't
forget to eat Back drink, some water, take your meds be kind to
yourself, be kind of others and remember that we love you.
(33:48):
We'll be back next week with more TT RPG goodness and maybe
some conversations about the eighty HD.
Yeah. Hi everybody.
Thanks for being here.
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