April 4, 2024 • 26 mins
Tanis Merimee, one of the founders of Marriages of Grace, joins us to share her insights into grief and marriage.
This episode is a testament to the strength found in unity and the solace provided by faith and community in Catholic marriages.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Thank you for watching.
(00:31):
Hello everyone and welcome backto CC Airwaves.
My name is Paige Matillo andtoday we have a special guest.
This is Tanis Merrimie,president and founder of
Marriages of Grace.
How are you doing today?
I'mriages of Grace?
How are you doing today?
I'm great, paige.
How are you?
I'm doing really good.
You know, I'm a little bitunder the weather, but we're
(00:52):
starting to feel better, so it'sall going well.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
That's this time of year, you know we get the hot
and then we get the cold.
We live in Cleveland, so I knowwe all have to deal with that
right.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
It was snowing yesterday, and then at the end
of the night I was able to wearsandals, so I'm very confused
about what's going on with theweather right now.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
As we all are.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
So why don't you just start off by telling us a
little bit about yourself?
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Sure, absolutely yeah .
So I have been married for 32years.
I have nine children.
I have four grandchildren.
I have two on the way.
My husband and I actually metin music school he's a violinist
and I'm a cellist and we gotmarried very young we were 20.
And then we had our oldest whenwe were 21.
(01:40):
So it's been a.
It's been a long and wild ride.
It's been really exciting.
My husband is actually aretired firefighter.
He just started a new job withthe Cleveland Clinic as an EMS
director, and I havehomeschooled on and off for 26
years, and now is my very firstyear that I'm not homeschooling.
(02:03):
So I'm still playing, I stillam a cellist, I freelance
extensively throughout theCleveland area, and so that's a
little bit about us.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Wow, that's incredible Nine children, yeah,
yeah, I'm sure your house wasreally busy then, oh my goodness
, you have no idea.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Whenever we have people over to the house, if
there's going to be a lot of ushere, we always kind of give
them a heads up.
Hey, it can be a littleoverwhelming.
There's a lot of us and there'salways lots of noise but it's
always fun.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
I mean, as an only child, it's hard for me to
imagine that's.
That's.
That's amazing though.
Big beautiful family and nowextra grandchildren oh, that's
wonderful.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Yeah, it's fun.
It's lots of fun.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
So can you tell me a little bit about your journey
leading up to Marriages of Grace?
Yeah, sure.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
So my husband and I actually worked in pre-Cana for
many years.
We helped out at the Jesuitretreat house and we would
prepare couples for marriage, sowe would give different talks.
We did that for quite a fewyears actually, and we started
to realize actually that once wehad prepared these couples for
(03:14):
marriage and then they weremarried, there really wasn't a
lot out there for them.
This was back, you know, 2008,9, 10, you know somewhere in
there, and there just weren't alot of programs for couples
after the marriage and we feltlike we were almost doing them a
disservice, Like, okay, here weare, we're helping you, we're
(03:34):
preparing you for marriage, butyou know, good luck, Hope it all
goes well, and then not givingthem any support beyond that.
And then there was one yearthat we actually attended a
marriage enrichment and we wereasked to support beyond that.
And then there was one yearthat we actually attended a
marriage enrichment and we wereasked to give our testimony and
we went to that event.
It was down near Akron and weloved it.
It was just such a greatexperience and we left there
(03:57):
thinking this is wonderful, thisis.
You know, something like thisneeds to continue.
So we offered to help.
The following year, and beforeyou knew it, we were actually
running the event.
So then, in 2012, we decidedwell, let's incorporate, let's
make a nonprofit.
We wanted the tax exempt status, so we incorporated as a 501c3.
(04:18):
We called ourselves Marriagesof Grace and I mean we've been
going ever since.
So you know it's officiallywe've been in existence since
2012.
But actually you know we hadbeen doing marriage enrichments
even prior to that.
So it's, it's.
It's been a while.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
That's great.
And then what's the primarymission of Marriages of Grace?
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Yeah, so you know part of our.
When we founded Marriages ofGrace, we realized also that we
had been blessed.
My husband and I had both beenblessed by being raised in
families and we saw the witnessof our own parents.
They loved each other.
You know, we really had a greatexample of what marriage was.
So we wanted to be able to giveback a little bit, and the goal
(05:02):
through all of this was toenrich and strengthen Catholic
couples.
And the way we decided to dothat initially was just through
an annual marriage enrichment.
But then, as time went on, weknew that there needed to be
more.
So we started up these eventscalled.
We called them Canaanites.
It's a little bit of a play onwords, but it's really theology
(05:23):
on tap for married couples.
It's a little bit of a play onwords, but it's really theology
on tap for married couples andit's at a bar or restaurant and
they happen every two months now.
So it's an opportunity forcouples to gather in a really
relaxed setting and enjoyappetizers and food and drinks
and then have a speaker and getto meet other Catholic couples.
So we we have events every twomonths.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
That's wonderful, and I believe I saw that you guys
even are outside of Ohio now inPennsylvania, right.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Yeah, so actually when, when Bishop Perez was here
in the Diocese of Cleveland, hewas extremely supportive of
Marriages of Grace, he reallyhelped and and encouraged us to
keep going in this mission.
And he left, obviously, andwent to philadelphia and when he
went he wanted marriages ofgrace to be there in
philadelphia.
So he kind of tasked a group ofpeople in philly with bringing
marriages of grace there.
So, um, so they've been up andgoing for a few years.
(06:23):
Um, a little bit differentmaybe than what we do, because
they're very strongly affiliatedwith the diocese.
We have great support from thediocese, but we're actually run
by the diocese.
We're an independent, you know,organization and although
marriages of grace isindependent, there there's a
little bit more involvement fromthe diocese in philly.
So it's slightly different, butbut the same mission it's a
(06:46):
great cause.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
I think that it's really important, especially
because you're correct.
I mean, you have thesepre-cannas, but then couples get
married and then there isessentially no support for them.
You know right?
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Yeah, there's more now.
I think there's a lot ofindividual parishes within the
diocese that are doing so muchmore for marriage than they were
even back in 2012 when westarted, so I'm really excited
to see so many more marriageinitiatives and enrichments and
things like that going onthroughout the diocese.
It's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
That is so great, and I'm glad the Diocese of
Cleveland is supporting you inyour mission.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Yeah, they're just awesome.
It's been a great supportnetwork for us.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
So today we're going to talk a little bit about grief
and how married couples canface grief together.
So what do you believe are someunique challenges that married
couples face when they'redealing with grief?
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Yeah, so sure.
So you know, all couples aregoing to have to face grief at
some point in their marriage.
We know that right.
So everyone's going to lose agrandparent or a parent.
And then some couples are goingto have to deal with the grief
that's associated withmiscarriage.
Some couples very few will haveto deal with the loss of a
(07:58):
child, but this is obviously asignificant challenge for any
marriage.
And then other couples aregoing to have to come to terms
with the loss of their spouse.
Even so, when dealing with anyof these forms of grief, there's
going to be emotionalchallenges that are new, that
they haven't experienced before,and I think one of the unique
challenges for any marriage istrying to understand that our
(08:21):
spouse might not process griefthe same way we do.
So, you know, our spouse mightcomprehend the way we deal with
our own grief, but then there'soften a disconnect that arises
because there's a lack ofunderstanding between the
spouses about how they each areprocessing their own grief.
So I think that's definitelyone of the most challenging
(08:44):
situations and, again, like, thegrief is going to be different
if you've lost a grandparent,because that's expected to be
different if you've lost agrandparent because that's
expected, it's going to be maybea little more challenging.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
If you've lost a parent, because that's a lot
more personal and difficult.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
But then when you're dealing with miscarriage or the
loss of a child, I think that'seven more traumatic and that's
going to pose an even greaterchallenge to the marriage.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Yeah, I really like what you said about how couples
sometimes have different ways ofgrieving, which is one of the
biggest challenges that canarise from that grief, and I
think you're correct.
I mean, some people want totalk about their grief and some
people just want to hold it inand they handle it in other ways
, like through physical activityor through praying, or they
(09:30):
just have different outletsbesides speaking about it, and
so I think you're 100% correctthat those married couples might
, you know, have issues dealingwith it together if they deal
with grief in different ways.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Right, exactly, I think that they need to be
empathetic.
You know they need to not becritical, so the disconnect can
be a strain and then you getemotional distance.
That arises because they'redealing with the grief
differently, and that's part ofthat is just because they're not
communicating properly, they'renot explaining.
(10:04):
Hey look, this is a lot moredifficult for me than maybe it
is for you, and this is how I'mprocessing it right now.
And it's so easy to be criticalof your spouse when they do
something different.
I mean, I know, even like myhusband does things differently
than I do and sometimes I'm likewhy do you do it like that
Right?
It's the same thing with grief,like, well, why aren't you as
upset as I am right now?
(10:25):
Or you know, how can you justgo on with your your life and do
the usual things when here I amstruggling so much?
So, yeah, it needs to becommunicated.
I think is a big part of thatto be able to overcome that
challenge.
And then you know, just totouch on that, that the infant
or child loss a little bit too.
You know there's statistics outthere that say that 80, upwards
(10:48):
of 80 percent of couples thatlose a child end in divorce.
But I'm actually not sure howaccurate that statistic is.
I know it kind of floats up,floats around out there, um, but
I I think that you know, forthose couples, if they had
problems in their marriagebefore they lost a child, then
the loss of the child is goingto amplify the the challenge
(11:10):
that already existed beforehand.
So this grief that they'reexperiencing is going to amplify
the challenge that alreadyexisted beforehand.
So this grief that they'reexperiencing is going to amplify
whatever challenges they hadbefore the loss.
And then this is going toincrease their chance of, you
know, possible separation ordivorce.
But but actually you know themost couples that I know who
have lost a child.
They've actually persevered andthey've been strengthened
(11:31):
because of their trial.
So, you know, I believe that ifa marriage can make it through
the grief of losing a child,then they're going to make it
through any challenge thatthey're going to face in the
future.
So, you know, that's obviouslya very unique challenge that any
marriage is going to have toface, but I think it's something
that couples need to be awareis a possibility, and then they
(11:54):
work on their problems so that,if they are faced with that kind
of grief or that kind ofchallenge, they're able to
overcome it when it does happen.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
We had a couple on last year on the podcast who had
lost their son and he was ayoung boy and he had.
You know, they had otherchildren and the way they
described how they handled theloss I thought was very
beautiful, because their mainfocus was making sure that the
other person was taken care of.
(12:21):
So there were some days whenthe father was able to give more
of himself to the family andthe mother was just not able to,
so they were able to pick upwhere the other person may have
been lacking on that specificday.
So if the mother was only ableto give 20% because she was
dealing with grief, the fathergave 80% and I thought it was
(12:44):
really beautiful.
They were able to do thatinstead of you know, oh, I'm
doing 50 and you're only doing20.
You know, I will pick up thatother 30 percent for you because
you are my person.
We are a family, we have otherchildren and we're both dealing
with this and I know what you'refeeling and I thought that was
a very beautiful way of handlingit.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Yeah, that is really really beautiful, yeah.
So I think it can be astrengthening thing because
they're they're able torecognize hey, this is really
difficult for both of us.
Let's work on this and andthose are the couples that are
really going to thrive, becausethey're willing to persevere and
they're willing to work throughyou know that, that that just
terrible loss.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Do you have any advice for a couple who is
navigating the path of grieftogether?
Speaker 2 (13:29):
So the first thing that I would say is that all
married couples should bepraying together.
So prayer can help couplesnavigate this path of grief
together, because it allowscouples to express their grief
while at the same time askingGod to heal their broken hearts.
So you know from from my own,for my husband and I, from our
(13:51):
own experience of losing ourparents when we were only in our
20s, we found that prayers werejust of the utmost help.
We kind of like I said before,you know, my husband and I had a
beautiful example in our ownparents of marriage and a strong
marriage.
So we were able to incorporatethat into our own marriage and
prayer was one of those thingsthat was just very natural for
(14:14):
my husband and I.
From the very beginning, andthrough all this marriage
ministry work that I've done,I've realized that actually not
all couples pray together.
I didn't realize that when Ifirst entered into this work,
but I encourage all couples todo so because it's such a
strengthening of the marriagebond and it also helps through
difficult times.
You know when, when, when, whenour parents died, we were, like
(14:38):
I said, in our late twenties.
I only have my mom left and myboth my husband's parents died
and my dad died when we werevery young.
So, you know, we started havingthings like masses offered up
for our parents.
We would gain indulgences andoffer them up for the repose of
our parents' soul.
And then we startedincorporating this prayer before
(15:00):
all of our meals.
We will pray grace, and then atthe very end we would say you
know, may the souls of thefaithful departed through the
mercy of God rest in peace.
So this is something we do tothis day.
So I think that if coupleshaven't been praying together
before they experience a loss,if they begin praying together,
I think that's such astrengthening of their bond and
(15:21):
it's an ability for them to beable to have an outlet for their
grief.
And then they also know thatthere's something concrete that
they're doing to kind ofovercome the grief.
So that's the one thing I wouldsay would be very, very
important.
And then, secondly, I would saythat being honest and
communicating with our spouse isjust of utmost importance.
(15:41):
You know, again, personally Ican kind of attest to like this
distance that can arise becauseof differences in the way my
husband and I process grief.
So we've had two miscarriages.
We had nine children, but wehad two miscarriages and each
time I experienced the loss muchmore acutely than my husband
(16:02):
did.
It was difficult for him tounderstand the grief that I felt
and because of that I feltdistance from him.
But I'm not sure that I wascompletely honest with him and I
don't think I communicated wellwhat I was experiencing.
So that really created this,you know, kind of distance in my
own heart.
So I think communication has tobe really important honesty and
(16:26):
communication between spouseswhen they're dealing with grief.
And then a third thing I wouldsay is family and compassionate
friends.
So you know, you know I have abig family, I've got my kids and
everything else, but my ownfamily itself is actually kind
of large.
I have five siblings and I'vegot lots of nieces and nephews
(16:49):
and you know, being surroundedby family and friends that you
can share your grief with isjust so powerful.
When, when my dad died, he wasonly 57 when he died and and my
mom was just devastated they,they just had such a beautiful,
strong relationship and he washer rock.
(17:11):
Such a beautiful strongrelationship and he was her rock
.
So you know, when he died, wewere all together.
It was all my, my siblings, youknow the grandchildren that
were there at the time, and andI think if my mom hadn't have
had this, this family and thissupport network, it just would
have been so much more difficult.
She obviously had a deep faithas well, but you know, the fact
(17:33):
that we can talk together aboutmy dad and bring up memories and
share stories I mean, howpowerful is that right For to be
able to have that kind ofsupport network?
Absolutely yeah.
And then, and I think the lastthing that I would, that I would
kind of advice that I wouldgive to couples, is to to seek
out counseling if you reallyneed it.
(17:54):
You know we've got cornerstoneof hope here in Cleveland.
You know, so I would.
Yeah, I guess those are thefour things that that, in my
mind, are really important.
You know, pray, be honest andcommunicate, find a great
support network Hopefully that'syour family or close friends
and then seek out griefcounseling.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
I think grief counseling is really important,
and that's your family or closefriends, and then seek out grief
counseling.
I think grief counseling isreally important and that's
something that we talk a lotabout on the podcast as well,
because the Catholic CemeteriesAssociation actually has grief
support groups that we do once amonth at the cemetery locations
and then also online.
So I think that and we also youknow, we speak about
Cornerstone of Hope and Joel'sPlace because we really think
(18:35):
that if people need that help,then they should be seeking it
out, and there are so many greatorganizations in Cleveland that
can offer it to them, right,and I'm sure I'm not very
familiar with it, but I'm surethere's parishes and your
priesthood, they're all going tobe there for you, right?
Speaker 2 (18:51):
And so having that faith, community, having the
friends, having all of that isis going to be extremely
important, especially formarriages.
That you know, we all know.
I mean the divorce, thestatistics out there.
There's a 50% divorce rateright now and it's been like
that for a while.
So you know, if you alreadyhave things stacked against you,
(19:13):
just in general, being in aCatholic, christian, sacramental
marriage, then you know whenyou're faced with grief it's
going to be even more difficult.
So definitely get the helpthat's needed and don't don't
let that be a source of strainin your marriage.
It's not necessary when you'vegot the help that's out there.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
So you said that your father had passed away and your
mother, you know, obviously wasvery upset.
I know that this isn'tsomething that we really were
talking about the loss of aspouse but how did she handle
losing a spouse?
What did she do to handle thatgrief?
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Yeah, so actually it's a beautiful story.
You know, death is obviouslysad, but there can also be
beauty in it.
And from my from my ownexperience watching my mom and
my dad, and that you know thatparticular situation, it was
very, very unexpected and we allrushed to the hospital and we
(20:13):
stood around his hospital bedand we were actually praying the
rosary, we were praying theglorious mysteries of the rosary
when he died.
And just he had also this waskind of an amazing thing to me
One of those witnesses that youknow God is there and he's with
us.
When I got to the hospital hehad they needed to give him an
MRI or a CT scan, I guess, and Inoticed when I got there that
(20:40):
he didn't have his scapular on.
So I asked my mom you knowwhere's his scapular?
And they said, well, she had totake it off when they went to
scan him.
So I took mine off and I put itaround my dad's neck and he
actually died wearing thatscapular.
And then later I realized thathe died on the feast of St Simon
Stock, who is, you know, he isthe one who gave us the scapular
(21:01):
.
So for me, knowing that my daddied with the scapular around
his neck.
On the feast of St Simon Stockwe're all around his bed praying
the glorious mysteries of therosary as the sun was rising.
For me that was just such a hugestrength.
(21:24):
But for my mom it was just anunbelievable source of strength
for her.
So later the hospital staffactually said to her I mean she
did really break down and shewas pretty inconsolable there
for a while.
But but they said to her laterthey said we've never witnessed
such a beautiful testimony offaith and strength that you and
your family showed at the timeof your husband's death.
(21:46):
And and she was a witness tothat she just said you know, if
I didn't have my faith, I don'tknow what I would do, and but
that that that God was takingcare of him and and you know he
received last right.
Actually this is a kind of acool story too.
As he was being wheeled intothe hospital, a priest was
walking out and he looked downand recognized my dad and gave
(22:09):
him last rites as he was beingwheeled.
You know, those promises of therosary, those, all those
promises that we know asCatholics are part of our faith.
We witnessed that in when mydad passed and and that has just
been an incredible source ofstrength for my mom from from
the very beginning.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
That's incredible.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Now I am going to be linkingyour Web site below, just so
that way our listeners can lookat your site and see if there's
any events that they'reinterested in going to.
Do you have any upcoming eventsthat our listeners might be
interested in attending?
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Yeah, for sure.
So I think that, first of all,I just want to say that Marriage
is a Grace, is just an awesomeway for Catholic couples to meet
each other.
So, you know, whether it'sattending the annual Marriage En
, which is a day long event, orwhether it's attending one of
these Canaanites, which is just,you know, a theology on tap,
it's just a couple hours on aFriday evening every couple
(23:07):
months.
You know, especially if you'redealing with grief, going to
something like this, you'regoing to be able to connect with
other Catholic couples who areliving out their faith and who
will be a source of strength andcomfort.
But yeah, we have our big one iscoming up on April 20th
Saturday April 20th and that'sat the Holiday Inn in
Independence and it features Timand Valerie Staples from
(23:31):
Catholic Answers.
They're out of California andthey're our keynote speakers.
And then we have lots ofbreakout sessions and we have
mass and confession and a dinner, and that's so.
That's our day long eventthat's actually coming up on
April 20.
And then we have these bimonthly ones.
The next one will be in Juneand then August and then October
(23:54):
.
So that's what we have left forthe rest of this year, and all
of that is available on ourwebsite.
So people want more informationabout that event, they can
visit marriagesofgraceorg.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
And then what's the best way for them to get
involved?
Is it to attend these events,or are they able to donate to
you guys?
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Yeah.
So there's a few things.
If they visit our website, theycan learn, obviously, a little
bit more about us.
We always are asking for peopleto pray for us.
There's actually a button thatyou can click on our homepage
and it's just prayers.
So you know, if people arewilling to pray for Marriages of
Grace and pray for our missionof enriching and strengthening
Catholic couples, we would begrateful for that.
(24:35):
They can also support usfinancially.
So we're always in need ofsponsors for our events and
sponsors just for Marriages ofGrace in general, and there's a
sponsor us tab.
They can click on that and theycan support us financially.
You know we can use corporatesponsors and Catholic cemeteries
.
We're just so grateful to youthis year for being one of our
(24:55):
sponsors for our upcoming eventand yeah, that's another way.
And then also just recommendingrecommending engaged or
Catholic couples to attend ourevents.
So you know, whether peopleright now are married or not
married, they can alwaysrecommend other couples and they
can even sponsor a couple.
Maybe there's a couple whocan't afford to go or wouldn't
(25:17):
go otherwise.
You can sponsor that couple andyou can pay for them to attend
one of our events.
That's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Yeah, it's a great way for people to get involved
with the organization.
Yeah, thank you.
Yeah, we're excited about it.
Well, thank you so much forjoining us today.
I know that I was reallyexcited to have you on, and I'm
sure our listeners will reallybe able to learn a lot from what
you've said, and I can't waitfor them to listen to this.
So, guys, I am going to linkthe website down below in the
(25:49):
description, so if you'reinterested in attending an event
or supporting Marriages ofGrace, just go look down below
and thank you for listening.
Have a great day.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Thank you.
Thank you for watching.
(00:31):
Hello everyone and welcome backto CC Airwaves.
My name is Paige Matillo andtoday we have a special guest.
This is Tanis Merrimie,president and founder of
Marriages of Grace.
How are you doing today?
I'mriages of Grace?
How are you doing today?
I'm great, paige.
How are you?
I'm doing really good.
You know, I'm a little bitunder the weather, but we're
(00:52):
starting to feel better, so it'sall going well.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
That's this time of year, you know we get the hot
and then we get the cold.
We live in Cleveland, so I knowwe all have to deal with that
right.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
It was snowing yesterday, and then at the end
of the night I was able to wearsandals, so I'm very confused
about what's going on with theweather right now.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
As we all are.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
So why don't you just start off by telling us a
little bit about yourself?
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Sure, absolutely yeah .
So I have been married for 32years.
I have nine children.
I have four grandchildren.
I have two on the way.
My husband and I actually metin music school he's a violinist
and I'm a cellist and we gotmarried very young we were 20.
And then we had our oldest whenwe were 21.
(01:40):
So it's been a.
It's been a long and wild ride.
It's been really exciting.
My husband is actually aretired firefighter.
He just started a new job withthe Cleveland Clinic as an EMS
director, and I havehomeschooled on and off for 26
years, and now is my very firstyear that I'm not homeschooling.
(02:03):
So I'm still playing, I stillam a cellist, I freelance
extensively throughout theCleveland area, and so that's a
little bit about us.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Wow, that's incredible Nine children, yeah,
yeah, I'm sure your house wasreally busy then, oh my goodness
, you have no idea.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Whenever we have people over to the house, if
there's going to be a lot of ushere, we always kind of give
them a heads up.
Hey, it can be a littleoverwhelming.
There's a lot of us and there'salways lots of noise but it's
always fun.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
I mean, as an only child, it's hard for me to
imagine that's.
That's.
That's amazing though.
Big beautiful family and nowextra grandchildren oh, that's
wonderful.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Yeah, it's fun.
It's lots of fun.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
So can you tell me a little bit about your journey
leading up to Marriages of Grace?
Yeah, sure.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
So my husband and I actually worked in pre-Cana for
many years.
We helped out at the Jesuitretreat house and we would
prepare couples for marriage, sowe would give different talks.
We did that for quite a fewyears actually, and we started
to realize actually that once wehad prepared these couples for
(03:14):
marriage and then they weremarried, there really wasn't a
lot out there for them.
This was back, you know, 2008,9, 10, you know somewhere in
there, and there just weren't alot of programs for couples
after the marriage and we feltlike we were almost doing them a
disservice, Like, okay, here weare, we're helping you, we're
(03:34):
preparing you for marriage, butyou know, good luck, Hope it all
goes well, and then not givingthem any support beyond that.
And then there was one yearthat we actually attended a
marriage enrichment and we wereasked to support beyond that.
And then there was one yearthat we actually attended a
marriage enrichment and we wereasked to give our testimony and
we went to that event.
It was down near Akron and weloved it.
It was just such a greatexperience and we left there
(03:57):
thinking this is wonderful, thisis.
You know, something like thisneeds to continue.
So we offered to help.
The following year, and beforeyou knew it, we were actually
running the event.
So then, in 2012, we decidedwell, let's incorporate, let's
make a nonprofit.
We wanted the tax exempt status, so we incorporated as a 501c3.
(04:18):
We called ourselves Marriagesof Grace and I mean we've been
going ever since.
So you know it's officiallywe've been in existence since
2012.
But actually you know we hadbeen doing marriage enrichments
even prior to that.
So it's, it's.
It's been a while.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
That's great.
And then what's the primarymission of Marriages of Grace?
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Yeah, so you know part of our.
When we founded Marriages ofGrace, we realized also that we
had been blessed.
My husband and I had both beenblessed by being raised in
families and we saw the witnessof our own parents.
They loved each other.
You know, we really had a greatexample of what marriage was.
So we wanted to be able to giveback a little bit, and the goal
(05:02):
through all of this was toenrich and strengthen Catholic
couples.
And the way we decided to dothat initially was just through
an annual marriage enrichment.
But then, as time went on, weknew that there needed to be
more.
So we started up these eventscalled.
We called them Canaanites.
It's a little bit of a play onwords, but it's really theology
(05:23):
on tap for married couples.
It's a little bit of a play onwords, but it's really theology
on tap for married couples andit's at a bar or restaurant and
they happen every two months now.
So it's an opportunity forcouples to gather in a really
relaxed setting and enjoyappetizers and food and drinks
and then have a speaker and getto meet other Catholic couples.
So we we have events every twomonths.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
That's wonderful, and I believe I saw that you guys
even are outside of Ohio now inPennsylvania, right.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Yeah, so actually when, when Bishop Perez was here
in the Diocese of Cleveland, hewas extremely supportive of
Marriages of Grace, he reallyhelped and and encouraged us to
keep going in this mission.
And he left, obviously, andwent to philadelphia and when he
went he wanted marriages ofgrace to be there in
philadelphia.
So he kind of tasked a group ofpeople in philly with bringing
marriages of grace there.
So, um, so they've been up andgoing for a few years.
(06:23):
Um, a little bit differentmaybe than what we do, because
they're very strongly affiliatedwith the diocese.
We have great support from thediocese, but we're actually run
by the diocese.
We're an independent, you know,organization and although
marriages of grace isindependent, there there's a
little bit more involvement fromthe diocese in philly.
So it's slightly different, butbut the same mission it's a
(06:46):
great cause.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
I think that it's really important, especially
because you're correct.
I mean, you have thesepre-cannas, but then couples get
married and then there isessentially no support for them.
You know right?
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Yeah, there's more now.
I think there's a lot ofindividual parishes within the
diocese that are doing so muchmore for marriage than they were
even back in 2012 when westarted, so I'm really excited
to see so many more marriageinitiatives and enrichments and
things like that going onthroughout the diocese.
It's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
That is so great, and I'm glad the Diocese of
Cleveland is supporting you inyour mission.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Yeah, they're just awesome.
It's been a great supportnetwork for us.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
So today we're going to talk a little bit about grief
and how married couples canface grief together.
So what do you believe are someunique challenges that married
couples face when they'redealing with grief?
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Yeah, so sure.
So you know, all couples aregoing to have to face grief at
some point in their marriage.
We know that right.
So everyone's going to lose agrandparent or a parent.
And then some couples are goingto have to deal with the grief
that's associated withmiscarriage.
Some couples very few will haveto deal with the loss of a
(07:58):
child, but this is obviously asignificant challenge for any
marriage.
And then other couples aregoing to have to come to terms
with the loss of their spouse.
Even so, when dealing with anyof these forms of grief, there's
going to be emotionalchallenges that are new, that
they haven't experienced before,and I think one of the unique
challenges for any marriage istrying to understand that our
(08:21):
spouse might not process griefthe same way we do.
So, you know, our spouse mightcomprehend the way we deal with
our own grief, but then there'soften a disconnect that arises
because there's a lack ofunderstanding between the
spouses about how they each areprocessing their own grief.
So I think that's definitelyone of the most challenging
(08:44):
situations and, again, like, thegrief is going to be different
if you've lost a grandparent,because that's expected to be
different if you've lost agrandparent because that's
expected, it's going to be maybea little more challenging.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
If you've lost a parent, because that's a lot
more personal and difficult.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
But then when you're dealing with miscarriage or the
loss of a child, I think that'seven more traumatic and that's
going to pose an even greaterchallenge to the marriage.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Yeah, I really like what you said about how couples
sometimes have different ways ofgrieving, which is one of the
biggest challenges that canarise from that grief, and I
think you're correct.
I mean, some people want totalk about their grief and some
people just want to hold it inand they handle it in other ways
, like through physical activityor through praying, or they
(09:30):
just have different outletsbesides speaking about it, and
so I think you're 100% correctthat those married couples might
, you know, have issues dealingwith it together if they deal
with grief in different ways.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Right, exactly, I think that they need to be
empathetic.
You know they need to not becritical, so the disconnect can
be a strain and then you getemotional distance.
That arises because they'redealing with the grief
differently, and that's part ofthat is just because they're not
communicating properly, they'renot explaining.
(10:04):
Hey look, this is a lot moredifficult for me than maybe it
is for you, and this is how I'mprocessing it right now.
And it's so easy to be criticalof your spouse when they do
something different.
I mean, I know, even like myhusband does things differently
than I do and sometimes I'm likewhy do you do it like that
Right?
It's the same thing with grief,like, well, why aren't you as
upset as I am right now?
(10:25):
Or you know, how can you justgo on with your your life and do
the usual things when here I amstruggling so much?
So, yeah, it needs to becommunicated.
I think is a big part of thatto be able to overcome that
challenge.
And then you know, just totouch on that, that the infant
or child loss a little bit too.
You know there's statistics outthere that say that 80, upwards
(10:48):
of 80 percent of couples thatlose a child end in divorce.
But I'm actually not sure howaccurate that statistic is.
I know it kind of floats up,floats around out there, um, but
I I think that you know, forthose couples, if they had
problems in their marriagebefore they lost a child, then
the loss of the child is goingto amplify the the challenge
(11:10):
that already existed beforehand.
So this grief that they'reexperiencing is going to amplify
the challenge that alreadyexisted beforehand.
So this grief that they'reexperiencing is going to amplify
whatever challenges they hadbefore the loss.
And then this is going toincrease their chance of, you
know, possible separation ordivorce.
But but actually you know themost couples that I know who
have lost a child.
They've actually persevered andthey've been strengthened
(11:31):
because of their trial.
So, you know, I believe that ifa marriage can make it through
the grief of losing a child,then they're going to make it
through any challenge thatthey're going to face in the
future.
So, you know, that's obviouslya very unique challenge that any
marriage is going to have toface, but I think it's something
that couples need to be awareis a possibility, and then they
(11:54):
work on their problems so that,if they are faced with that kind
of grief or that kind ofchallenge, they're able to
overcome it when it does happen.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
We had a couple on last year on the podcast who had
lost their son and he was ayoung boy and he had.
You know, they had otherchildren and the way they
described how they handled theloss I thought was very
beautiful, because their mainfocus was making sure that the
other person was taken care of.
(12:21):
So there were some days whenthe father was able to give more
of himself to the family andthe mother was just not able to,
so they were able to pick upwhere the other person may have
been lacking on that specificday.
So if the mother was only ableto give 20% because she was
dealing with grief, the fathergave 80% and I thought it was
(12:44):
really beautiful.
They were able to do thatinstead of you know, oh, I'm
doing 50 and you're only doing20.
You know, I will pick up thatother 30 percent for you because
you are my person.
We are a family, we have otherchildren and we're both dealing
with this and I know what you'refeeling and I thought that was
a very beautiful way of handlingit.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Yeah, that is really really beautiful, yeah.
So I think it can be astrengthening thing because
they're they're able torecognize hey, this is really
difficult for both of us.
Let's work on this and andthose are the couples that are
really going to thrive, becausethey're willing to persevere and
they're willing to work throughyou know that, that that just
terrible loss.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Do you have any advice for a couple who is
navigating the path of grieftogether?
Speaker 2 (13:29):
So the first thing that I would say is that all
married couples should bepraying together.
So prayer can help couplesnavigate this path of grief
together, because it allowscouples to express their grief
while at the same time askingGod to heal their broken hearts.
So you know from from my own,for my husband and I, from our
(13:51):
own experience of losing ourparents when we were only in our
20s, we found that prayers werejust of the utmost help.
We kind of like I said before,you know, my husband and I had a
beautiful example in our ownparents of marriage and a strong
marriage.
So we were able to incorporatethat into our own marriage and
prayer was one of those thingsthat was just very natural for
(14:14):
my husband and I.
From the very beginning, andthrough all this marriage
ministry work that I've done,I've realized that actually not
all couples pray together.
I didn't realize that when Ifirst entered into this work,
but I encourage all couples todo so because it's such a
strengthening of the marriagebond and it also helps through
difficult times.
You know when, when, when, whenour parents died, we were, like
(14:38):
I said, in our late twenties.
I only have my mom left and myboth my husband's parents died
and my dad died when we werevery young.
So, you know, we started havingthings like masses offered up
for our parents.
We would gain indulgences andoffer them up for the repose of
our parents' soul.
And then we startedincorporating this prayer before
(15:00):
all of our meals.
We will pray grace, and then atthe very end we would say you
know, may the souls of thefaithful departed through the
mercy of God rest in peace.
So this is something we do tothis day.
So I think that if coupleshaven't been praying together
before they experience a loss,if they begin praying together,
I think that's such astrengthening of their bond and
(15:21):
it's an ability for them to beable to have an outlet for their
grief.
And then they also know thatthere's something concrete that
they're doing to kind ofovercome the grief.
So that's the one thing I wouldsay would be very, very
important.
And then, secondly, I would saythat being honest and
communicating with our spouse isjust of utmost importance.
(15:41):
You know, again, personally Ican kind of attest to like this
distance that can arise becauseof differences in the way my
husband and I process grief.
So we've had two miscarriages.
We had nine children, but wehad two miscarriages and each
time I experienced the loss muchmore acutely than my husband
(16:02):
did.
It was difficult for him tounderstand the grief that I felt
and because of that I feltdistance from him.
But I'm not sure that I wascompletely honest with him and I
don't think I communicated wellwhat I was experiencing.
So that really created this,you know, kind of distance in my
own heart.
So I think communication has tobe really important honesty and
(16:26):
communication between spouseswhen they're dealing with grief.
And then a third thing I wouldsay is family and compassionate
friends.
So you know, you know I have abig family, I've got my kids and
everything else, but my ownfamily itself is actually kind
of large.
I have five siblings and I'vegot lots of nieces and nephews
(16:49):
and you know, being surroundedby family and friends that you
can share your grief with isjust so powerful.
When, when my dad died, he wasonly 57 when he died and and my
mom was just devastated they,they just had such a beautiful,
strong relationship and he washer rock.
(17:11):
Such a beautiful strongrelationship and he was her rock
.
So you know, when he died, wewere all together.
It was all my, my siblings, youknow the grandchildren that
were there at the time, and andI think if my mom hadn't have
had this, this family and thissupport network, it just would
have been so much more difficult.
She obviously had a deep faithas well, but you know, the fact
(17:33):
that we can talk together aboutmy dad and bring up memories and
share stories I mean, howpowerful is that right For to be
able to have that kind ofsupport network?
Absolutely yeah.
And then, and I think the lastthing that I would, that I would
kind of advice that I wouldgive to couples, is to to seek
out counseling if you reallyneed it.
(17:54):
You know we've got cornerstoneof hope here in Cleveland.
You know, so I would.
Yeah, I guess those are thefour things that that, in my
mind, are really important.
You know, pray, be honest andcommunicate, find a great
support network Hopefully that'syour family or close friends
and then seek out griefcounseling.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
I think grief counseling is really important,
and that's your family or closefriends, and then seek out grief
counseling.
I think grief counseling isreally important and that's
something that we talk a lotabout on the podcast as well,
because the Catholic CemeteriesAssociation actually has grief
support groups that we do once amonth at the cemetery locations
and then also online.
So I think that and we also youknow, we speak about
Cornerstone of Hope and Joel'sPlace because we really think
(18:35):
that if people need that help,then they should be seeking it
out, and there are so many greatorganizations in Cleveland that
can offer it to them, right,and I'm sure I'm not very
familiar with it, but I'm surethere's parishes and your
priesthood, they're all going tobe there for you, right?
Speaker 2 (18:51):
And so having that faith, community, having the
friends, having all of that isis going to be extremely
important, especially formarriages.
That you know, we all know.
I mean the divorce, thestatistics out there.
There's a 50% divorce rateright now and it's been like
that for a while.
So you know, if you alreadyhave things stacked against you,
(19:13):
just in general, being in aCatholic, christian, sacramental
marriage, then you know whenyou're faced with grief it's
going to be even more difficult.
So definitely get the helpthat's needed and don't don't
let that be a source of strainin your marriage.
It's not necessary when you'vegot the help that's out there.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
So you said that your father had passed away and your
mother, you know, obviously wasvery upset.
I know that this isn'tsomething that we really were
talking about the loss of aspouse but how did she handle
losing a spouse?
What did she do to handle thatgrief?
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Yeah, so actually it's a beautiful story.
You know, death is obviouslysad, but there can also be
beauty in it.
And from my from my ownexperience watching my mom and
my dad, and that you know thatparticular situation, it was
very, very unexpected and we allrushed to the hospital and we
(20:13):
stood around his hospital bedand we were actually praying the
rosary, we were praying theglorious mysteries of the rosary
when he died.
And just he had also this waskind of an amazing thing to me
One of those witnesses that youknow God is there and he's with
us.
When I got to the hospital hehad they needed to give him an
MRI or a CT scan, I guess, and Inoticed when I got there that
(20:40):
he didn't have his scapular on.
So I asked my mom you knowwhere's his scapular?
And they said, well, she had totake it off when they went to
scan him.
So I took mine off and I put itaround my dad's neck and he
actually died wearing thatscapular.
And then later I realized thathe died on the feast of St Simon
Stock, who is, you know, he isthe one who gave us the scapular
(21:01):
.
So for me, knowing that my daddied with the scapular around
his neck.
On the feast of St Simon Stockwe're all around his bed praying
the glorious mysteries of therosary as the sun was rising.
For me that was just such a hugestrength.
(21:24):
But for my mom it was just anunbelievable source of strength
for her.
So later the hospital staffactually said to her I mean she
did really break down and shewas pretty inconsolable there
for a while.
But but they said to her laterthey said we've never witnessed
such a beautiful testimony offaith and strength that you and
your family showed at the timeof your husband's death.
(21:46):
And and she was a witness tothat she just said you know, if
I didn't have my faith, I don'tknow what I would do, and but
that that that God was takingcare of him and and you know he
received last right.
Actually this is a kind of acool story too.
As he was being wheeled intothe hospital, a priest was
walking out and he looked downand recognized my dad and gave
(22:09):
him last rites as he was beingwheeled.
You know, those promises of therosary, those, all those
promises that we know asCatholics are part of our faith.
We witnessed that in when mydad passed and and that has just
been an incredible source ofstrength for my mom from from
the very beginning.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
That's incredible.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Now I am going to be linkingyour Web site below, just so
that way our listeners can lookat your site and see if there's
any events that they'reinterested in going to.
Do you have any upcoming eventsthat our listeners might be
interested in attending?
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Yeah, for sure.
So I think that, first of all,I just want to say that Marriage
is a Grace, is just an awesomeway for Catholic couples to meet
each other.
So, you know, whether it'sattending the annual Marriage En
, which is a day long event, orwhether it's attending one of
these Canaanites, which is just,you know, a theology on tap,
it's just a couple hours on aFriday evening every couple
(23:07):
months.
You know, especially if you'redealing with grief, going to
something like this, you'regoing to be able to connect with
other Catholic couples who areliving out their faith and who
will be a source of strength andcomfort.
But yeah, we have our big one iscoming up on April 20th
Saturday April 20th and that'sat the Holiday Inn in
Independence and it features Timand Valerie Staples from
(23:31):
Catholic Answers.
They're out of California andthey're our keynote speakers.
And then we have lots ofbreakout sessions and we have
mass and confession and a dinner, and that's so.
That's our day long eventthat's actually coming up on
April 20.
And then we have these bimonthly ones.
The next one will be in Juneand then August and then October
(23:54):
.
So that's what we have left forthe rest of this year, and all
of that is available on ourwebsite.
So people want more informationabout that event, they can
visit marriagesofgraceorg.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
And then what's the best way for them to get
involved?
Is it to attend these events,or are they able to donate to
you guys?
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Yeah.
So there's a few things.
If they visit our website, theycan learn, obviously, a little
bit more about us.
We always are asking for peopleto pray for us.
There's actually a button thatyou can click on our homepage
and it's just prayers.
So you know, if people arewilling to pray for Marriages of
Grace and pray for our missionof enriching and strengthening
Catholic couples, we would begrateful for that.
(24:35):
They can also support usfinancially.
So we're always in need ofsponsors for our events and
sponsors just for Marriages ofGrace in general, and there's a
sponsor us tab.
They can click on that and theycan support us financially.
You know we can use corporatesponsors and Catholic cemeteries
.
We're just so grateful to youthis year for being one of our
(24:55):
sponsors for our upcoming eventand yeah, that's another way.
And then also just recommendingrecommending engaged or
Catholic couples to attend ourevents.
So you know, whether peopleright now are married or not
married, they can alwaysrecommend other couples and they
can even sponsor a couple.
Maybe there's a couple whocan't afford to go or wouldn't
(25:17):
go otherwise.
You can sponsor that couple andyou can pay for them to attend
one of our events.
That's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Yeah, it's a great way for people to get involved
with the organization.
Yeah, thank you.
Yeah, we're excited about it.
Well, thank you so much forjoining us today.
I know that I was reallyexcited to have you on, and I'm
sure our listeners will reallybe able to learn a lot from what
you've said, and I can't waitfor them to listen to this.
So, guys, I am going to linkthe website down below in the
(25:49):
description, so if you'reinterested in attending an event
or supporting Marriages ofGrace, just go look down below
and thank you for listening.
Have a great day.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Thank you.
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