Beneath the Victory Cheers - The Case of Ivrin Bolden, Jr. Case - 1/2 - CenLAw

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
In the 1980s, monroe, louisiana, was a place at first
and last, the highestconcentration of millionaires
per capita, juxtaposed againstthe third highest poverty rate
per capita in America, thecheapest place to retire and
high on the list of most likelyplaces to be murdered.
That is a quote from FranParker's novel Deadly Triangle.

(00:21):
That is the intro to chaptertwo, dreams and Nightmares.
Our story today is going totake us on a crazy, wild journey
through one of the mostnotorious murder cases that ever
hit Monroe.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
Join us today on Senla for episode 22,.
Part one of two.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
Hello and welcome to our better late than never.
Episode 22 of Sun Law.
I'm Kelly.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
And I'm Kyler.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
And we're going to tell a really crazy story.
I will not weave it high, butI'm here right at the gate.
This is a trigger warning thatis going to cover both.
I'll say it again for thesecond part but we are going to
be talking about many adultthemes that no child should

(01:25):
listen to.
It's going to involve sexualassault, graphic descriptions of
rape and murder At the sametime.
Just a bunch of things that youdon't don't want children
listening to.
So this is the heads upListener discretion extremely

(01:46):
advised.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
Hi kids, hi wife.

Speaker 1 (01:50):
So I promise, watch it.
I perish Monroe, I am notpicking on you on purpose.

Speaker 2 (01:59):
You got some crazy ass ancestors.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
Well, not just that, but like apparently all of the
things that I stood out in thememories of people that listen
to our podcast come out ofMonroe.
So this is a listenersuggestion, the first email
suggestion we ever received andI would have.

(02:24):
I would have gone in order thatI received them and I plan to
do that from here on out.
But the Jimmy Townsend episode.
It felt like I needed to getthat one out as soon as possible
to get maximum exposure andhopefully that has actually done
some good.
But we'll see soon andhopefully we'll have an update

(02:46):
coming up on that within thenext month or so.
But we'll see.
We'll see how that goes.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
And, as in, we had an episode that needed to go out
because it was still, it wasstill pertinent, it was still
relevant.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
It was not solved.

Speaker 2 (02:59):
Yeah, and we like trying to help stuff, that's
right, that's right.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
So today's episode is solved, but I guess we'll leave
it up to your yeah, exactly,you get to decide whether or not
justice was served in this case, and that's all I'm going to
say on that, and you get to formyour own opinions, I guess.
So, yeah, that's free will.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
That's how that works .

Speaker 1 (03:28):
Right, right, but I mean, my opinion is going to be,
if it's not blaringly obviousby the end of the first part,
like it's going to be glaringlyobvious by the second part.
So we are going to travel backin time a little bit and before
we start, yeah, we're the wayback machine.
Oh yeah, this is back before Ialways even born as old as,

(03:51):
anyway.
So a little bit of backgroundon Monroe.
That I didn't really do in theTownsend episode because that
was more just trying to get tothe meat and potatoes, as they
like to say.
But apparently Monroe was onceknown.
I think they called theoriginal name for it was Fort
Miro, and it eventually becamethe city of Monroe and it was

(04:18):
known for its the Delta area,from where the Mississippi runs
right beside it and that itreally good cultivating ground
and soil and all Anyway.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
So America's fertile crescent.

Speaker 1 (04:32):
Yeah, there you go.
So, and surprisingly, and theseare, these are facts that I did
not know or even would haveguessed, but Monroe was actually
the birthplace of a couple ofreally lucrative and still
ongoing company giants today.
Don't one of them, Delta, whichis why I mentioned that Delta

(04:55):
Airlines actually got its starthere as a crop dusting operation
and then they eventually grewinto the you know mega million
billion airline thing that theyare now.
So the other one, which Ithought was really crazy Coca
Cola's first bottling plantstarted here, I mean in Monroe.

(05:19):
It was located in Monroe andthat was in 1912.
And it was inherited bysomebody, some guy.
Anyway, he ended up making thebottle the first bottling plant
there in Monroe, which I thoughtwas really pretty cool.
But that's where the good stuffpretty much ends until later,
in later years.
Well, because Louisiana is notknown for being very adaptive

(05:43):
and accepting and engaging withnew ideas, it's not that, we're
not that, and we have thatongoing.
What do they call that?
Almost like survivor's guilt.
But yeah, so we're sorry, ourancestors sucked.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
Oh so white people.

Speaker 1 (05:59):
Exactly exactly the white people.
So we go through a rollercoaster of racism, slavery and
the still.
You know, like I said, guilty,conscious for the sins of our
ancestors which is Some of ourcurrent.
Yeah, well, I'm getting there.

Speaker 2 (06:20):
I couldn't figure out how to say that properly.

Speaker 1 (06:22):
Right, well, the ever present, and still currently
present, unfortunately, becauseas much as we like to think that
we're progressing and we're,you know, adapting and becoming
more accepting and all of thatstuff, we still have people that
I know them, I speak to them,that have no problems being

(06:48):
blatantly and overtly racist.
So I mean, that's still there,it's still present.
So you can imagine, in the yearthat we're going to be talking
about, back in the 80s in Monroe, they were still working on
being understanding andaccepting of, you know, all

(07:09):
people, all kinds, whether it berace, sex or orientation or
anything like that.
It was just not something thatwe were working on it.
We were trying, but it wasn'twidely acceptable.
So one thing that always seemedto manage to make that line of

(07:29):
segregation a lot more blurrywas sports, and you know,
especially in the United States,that they're more specifically
college sports, because peoplego crazy over the Final Four,
the March Madness, all of thatstuff.
I mean, like all of it's got alot of.
You know, you have a way ofbeing able to look past whatever

(07:54):
color, whatever sex, whateverelse.
It's the sport, it's thecamaraderie, it's the game
itself.
So that brings everybodytogether and there really wasn't
a better example of theacceptance and progressive
thinking than that of the NLU orthe Northeast Louisiana
University Lady Indian'sbasketball team.

(08:15):
And I'm going to be quotingthroughout the episode a little
bit from Fran Parker's what Imentioned in the intro, her
novel the Deadly Triangle.
That was actually suggested inthe email that that novel was
kind of like the synopsis andlink to go look at the actual

(08:36):
novel was included in the emailand I bought it.
I bought it first thing, likethat was the first thing I read
about.
I didn't read anything else.
I didn't go searching thenewspapers which I have done
since, but that was the firstthing I read was this novel by
Fran Parker, and I'm going tosay that it was a wealth of

(09:05):
information.
It was not the easiest read butit was good.
It had a lot of goodinformation.
However, I will caution anybodywho is interested in reading up
on this specific case.
In general, the novel itself isnot solely a true story.

(09:31):
By that I mean she took a lotof what you call those liberties
artistic liberties in her ownknowledge and conversations that
she had with people from thetime period and that were
involved in the case, and sheput that together in a way to
make it seem like she wasspeaking as either the people or

(09:57):
that she had the actualknowledge.
So you have to go into anunderstanding that a lot of the
information, a lot of thechapters that she writes about
that are speaking like its factis her rendition.
So it's kind of like this iswhat I think and believe, based
on what everybody told me.
This is the best descriptiveimagination act.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
So essentially it's a whole ass book of hearsay.

Speaker 1 (10:27):
Basically, but there's also a lot of fact in it
, because she does have likefacts are correct, but the same
facts that you can look uponline through the newspapers.
All of that information iscorrect.
It comes down to what they werethinking or what they said,

(10:48):
that they did, because there wasno way for me to verify it one
way or the other.
There's a couple of spots andI'll make sure and tell you guys
when I'm speaking, fran speak,or when I'm actually speaking
from fact, verifiable fact.

Speaker 2 (11:02):
So it is both fact and opinion and her own
introspection and understandingof what happened.

Speaker 1 (11:09):
And yes, it's an artistic liberty of what
information she got from peoplewho were there.
But then you have to take intoaccount that people's memories
can be faulty.
People can hyperbolicize orunderstate.
I mean like there's all kindsof problems with going solely
off, of relying off of someone'sword.

(11:31):
So that's all I have to sayabout that.
So I will make note of itwhenever I do say something that
is coming from there, becauseeverybody who listens to the
show should know at this pointthat I don't go off the cuff If
I can't verify it at least once.
More than likely, I like tohave it at least twice before I
ever bring it up or I pull intothe speculation station.

(11:54):
Those are the two options.
So that's basically where we'reat with that.
So hold that aside.
We were talking about the factthat sports brought people
together, has been doing so formany, many years, and it blurs
all those lines of sex, race,all of the things.

(12:14):
And Fran Parker actually, inher novel she stated that, quote
NLU sports gave citizens aunified cause to applaud,
unquote.
And when the ladies, theyactually rocketed to fame in 85
under coach Linda Harper, whichI'll talk about her in a bit
they were the number two collegeteam in the nation and the

(12:37):
entire community around Monroeespecially, but like the whole
state basically, they were justexcited and even more unified
and they could not have beenmore unified in pride and
celebration.
So the unfortunate other sideto that story is the fact that

(12:58):
although the analysts that atthe end of the season of 85,
they predicted them to be thenumber one seed for the next
year, but they didn't predictthis.
Well, not even this.
There was another scandal thathit before this ever even
happened.
So they were predicted to bethe number one team, but then

(13:21):
the NCAA apparently decided thatthey were going to make an
example out of NLU.
For whatever reason, I don'tknow who peed in their Cheerios
and they blamed it on NLU.
But that's what it seems like,and I keep saying NLU, northeast
Louisiana University.
You guys probably know it.
If you know it by a differentname, it's actually University

(13:44):
of Louisiana, monroe, ulm.
Now, and I'll have theprogression of name changes that
they had from the time thatthey opened all the way through
today, because they went from afew different names and now
they've even switched mascotsbecause apparently, just like

(14:06):
all other people that eitherwere the redskins or the
whatever's, they were theIndians.
So they've changed it now tothe Warhawks.
So NLU Lady Indians, in today'slanguage, are the ULM Lady
Warhawks.
So that's where that is andit's Yep, yep, that's where

(14:27):
we're going to go with that.
So this is 85 when thishappened initially, so when they
got to the Final Four.
This is the.
I don't know what I'm saying.
I think it's the first and lastand only time that this college
has ever reached the Final Four.
Yeah, poor babies, that was thelast time they won an NCAA

(14:54):
tournament game and yeah, theydidn't win any after that.
Now they were also, you know,they got a lot of firsts here.
They were the first women'steam in the NCAA ever to be
sanctioned.
Now, the men all across thecountry, the men were sanctioned

(15:18):
left and right because they hada really bad habit of riding
their players to come to them.
They wanted the best players,so they would do whatever they
needed to do to get them wherethey wanted them to go, and they
had, up to that point, onlyever sanctioned men.
And all of this was done underCoach Harper, linda Harper.

(15:39):
She was hired in 1978 and sheactually was a coach all the way
through 1990 when she retired.
So it was about 12 years andshe is Well.
She was, all the way up until2009, the all-time winningest
coach in ULM history and she hadin 1985 alone, when they got to

(16:02):
the Final Four and they onlylost to the winners, which was
Old Dominion, but they lost tothem by 10 points in the Final
Four and that year alone theyhad two separate 15 game winning
streaks.
Yeah, so they were prettyballing.
Hell, yes, anyway, I know thatwas terrible.

(16:26):
But so all of that to set thisstuff up, because when they got
sanctioned in 1986 they actuallygot a total of six infractions
by the NCAA.
One player was renderedineligible for the rest of the
86 season and the entire teamwas ineligible for any

(16:49):
postseason play.
Yeah, and they forbid CoachHarper from recruiting for a
year.
Now these sanctions were Okay.
The official story is that theywere using improper recruiting
techniques.
They had an unofficial,undocumented, some kind of

(17:13):
unreported tryout quote, unquotefor the player that was later
rendered ineligible.
But they also said that theywere giving her improper gifts,
that like the watch and that lether borrow a car.
This was all the officialstatement.

Speaker 2 (17:32):
Okay now.
Rendered ineligible is a realfancy way of saying murdered.

Speaker 1 (17:37):
No, no, no, no, not that one.

Speaker 2 (17:38):
Okay, this is a different yeah, no, no, she was
also rendered ineligible.

Speaker 1 (17:42):
She had already been kicked off the team at that
point.
So we're getting ahead ofourselves.
The official story was all ofthat, those sanctions, but the
sewing circles said thenewspaper version was just the
college's way of keeping theactual improprieties under wraps
.
Because the thought of alesbian recruiter interaction

(18:03):
was way beyond the comprehensionand carried the possibility of
irrevocably damaging thereputation of the college as a
whole and for what was at thatpoint the most lucrative import
portion of the entirety of thecollege at that point, for that

(18:26):
to become damaged beyond repair,especially social repair.
Nobody's gonna wanna give moneyto a bunch of lesbians and I
love everyone, by the way, thisis not me saying this, this was
the thought at the time.
So the same sex relationshipsthat were whispered about stayed
nothing but gossip for the timebeing and kinda got swept under

(18:49):
the rug underneath this veil ofoh, this is everything that we
did wrong and the improprietiesthat they're talking about
between the recruiter and therecruiter were nothing.
But you know, unsanctionedpractice or unsanctioned Try,
whatever, whatever.
And they talked a lot about itin the papers, but only in so
much as to say like, basically,you know, you bit back at the

(19:13):
NCAA and were like this is bullcrap.
You guys are picking on us.
You know you're just making anexample out of us, but trying
every and any way to make ithyper-focus on something other
than what it might possibly.
You might have heard that itwas something else, but we're

(19:34):
gonna try to hyper-focus oneverything that isn't to do with
the actual relationship betweenthe recruiter and the recruity.
So she was fired.
That recruiter was Good, but shewas a young looking looking
woman that was, you know, in aprobably improper relationship,
regardless of if it's same sexor not, but not a good thing for

(19:57):
, especially at the time.
Because all of that is just tomake sure that we get the right
setting and feel and mindset forthis story, because in 87, a
year that was stillnon-accepting of gays in any way

(20:20):
, much like last year, and youcouldn't, even if you were rich
and even if you had, you know,your influence or your family's
backing, all of those things,you were not accepted but you
were restricted to the army role.

Speaker 2 (20:38):
Don't ask, don't tell .

Speaker 1 (20:40):
Basically, yeah, and if you had your, they called you
quirky, they called youeccentric.

Speaker 2 (20:48):
And that's if you were rich, that's if you're rich
.
If you weren't rich, you wereput in San.

Speaker 1 (20:51):
Ontario you were pariahed, yeah, so.

Speaker 2 (20:55):
Which is a fancy word for a mental hospital.

Speaker 1 (20:58):
And now we were talking about the race situation
earlier, especially inLouisiana, and, like I said, we
were trying as a whole.
We were trying, but it wasstill enough of a thing to see
an interracial couple out inpublic, because they weren't
shunned entirely like they werejust, you know, a couple decades

(21:21):
earlier, but they were stilldefinitely noticed and like it
noticed in a way that stood outlike someone wearing bright pink
at a camouflage convention,like it was something that you
took notice of and were like huh, okay.
And it was more memorablebecause you know you were more
likely at this time, you wouldbe more likely to recall seeing

(21:45):
a tall black woman and a whiteman outside the Piggly Wiggly,
because those things just didn'tgo unnoticed and they weren't a
frequent occurrence, lod, no,so even though it wasn't
outright, you know, looked downupon, you weren't spit on or
anything like that anymore, butit was still very notable, okay.

(22:07):
So keep all that in mind.
And similar sentiments could besaid for the same sex couples,
except they're still back in thedark ages of don't come out,
don't tell anybody about it andyou're gonna get made fun of.
You're probably going to get,unfortunately, if you're not
just made fun of.

(22:27):
You're beat up or, you know,threatened and a lot of bad, bad
things.
But at this point in the late80s they were getting a little
bit better.
You know, after the free love70s stuff and it was still very
taboo, very looked the other way, but not so much because it was

(22:53):
like, oh, they're still gonnawhisper, they're still gonna
talk.
It's not even whisper, they'rejust going to talk about.
Oh, they spend a lot of timetogether, too much time, if you
ask me.
I saw them holding hands andsmiling each other like they
were together together, you know, raising eyebrows, air quotes,
all of the things.
So not even sports fame, noteven nearly getting an NCAA

(23:17):
championship, not any amount ofmoney could keep you from the
insidious gossip that comes whenfriends become too friendly and
they are of the same gender.
So, and like I said, this wasthe year of Lady Indians

(23:38):
basically bankrolling the entirecollege and you know you have
this recent scandal ofimpropriety and, first time ever
, women sanctions hanging overyour head.
There's a room for tomfooleryor something as menial as, like

(24:00):
teenage young love, to come intoany kind of contradictory
situation.
I ain't gonna get in between meand my money and it's
definitely something that was inthe back of everybody's mind as
the events that I'm about tounfold for you unfolded so much.

(24:25):
Like bad press for normalreasons is bad, you know.
Think about that in a way ofhaving to deal with bad press
that is also not accepted, likeit's the most unacceptable of
actions and it's just, it's allbad, all of it wrapped in bad.

(24:46):
So the last thing that you wantis any kind of innuendos or
assumptions being made about youcoming off of this year
penalization from the NCAA, andyou're trying to fly as under
the radar as you can possiblyget.
So at the time of our story in1987, NLU had been sailing along

(25:13):
for 53 years of operation andhad yet to see any horrors like
that of which unfolded On themorning of March 6th.
No one would fully understandthe full weight of these events
for years and years, and there'sa reason that the history of
NLU slash ULM on their websitetoday only goes back so far.

(25:37):
Even though these 1980s teamsaccomplishments were very high
in regard, it's apparent that noamount of good press could make
up for the overwhelming badthat was about to rain down on
the Southern town.
Yeah, thank you.
Thank you, I liked that one.
It was nice.
The night of March 5th was theLady Indian's last home game and

(26:04):
I think it was their lastconference game of the season
which they won.
They blew them away by like 20points, right, but they couldn't
.
Even that win couldn't keep theteammates from being concerned
and worried for their formerteammate, 18 year old Brenda
Spicer, who never would havemissed the game, like the only

(26:26):
reason she was there in Monroewas to be able to support her
team and be there for the lastgame.
And for one other reason we'llget to that in a minute and no
one had seen her since earlierthat evening, at about 5.30,
5.45, and no one could figureout where she went.

(26:49):
No one could get in touch withher and this is 87, they don't
have cell phones and they'rejust in general overall like hey
, we can't find her.
Even coming off of this win.
They were just still overlyconcerned and the entire.
There was a big black cloudjust hanging over the entire
team and the coach wascontacting teammates, teammates

(27:10):
was contacting coach, everybodywas just trying to figure out
where she is and make sure shewas safe, and that led into the
early morning hours of March 6th.
Now, before we get too deepinto that story, I'm sure you

(27:30):
can tell just by the way thatit's been set up here that
Brenda is gonna be our murdervictim, especially in part one
it's gonna be in part two.

Speaker 2 (27:38):
Hey spoiler alert.

Speaker 1 (27:40):
But the morning of March 6th 1987, her body was
found half closed in a dumpsteron campus and it wasn't a pretty
sight.
The janitor was coming to dohis normal trash stuff that he

(28:00):
did and he came upon her body,called the police and I think he
actually called the campussecurity first and they
eventually got to police.

Speaker 2 (28:10):
So frigging rude and insensitive to the janitor, like
what the hell?
I understand that somebody'sgotta find the body every time,
but like I don't think he waseven thinking about that, to be
honest.

Speaker 1 (28:23):
So he finds the body, reports it, they get the
officers and everything overthere.
They start doing a normal crimescene like that.
The one officer he felt reallybad about having to leave her
half nude.
He wanted, like his gut feeling, was to cover her but to

(28:43):
protect the integrity of thecrime scene.
He didn't, which was the rightthing to do.
But according to everything thatI read and from the novel
itself, her body was found.
Her bra had been cut, a cleancut in the middle.

(29:09):
Her shirt was not there.
Her khaki pants were pulledhalfway down.
I believe she had socks andshoes on.
They didn't know it at the time.
What was her, what her cause ofdeath was?
They would have to wait alittle bit to sit her off to
Beauser City to be autopsied.

(29:30):
But just from the look of itthey could see bruising on her
shoulders and that she didn'thave any other signs of physical
damage.
Like there was no obvious signof cause of death.
Sorry, no physical trauma, justa little bit of a shock, I

(29:50):
don't know, I don't know, noobvious sign cause of death.
sorry, no physical trauma notedRight, right, right, other than
the fact she was in a dumpsterand then had the bruising and
that her clothing was disheveledand obviously looked like she
had been in some kind ofstruggle.
So the other thing they madenote of, however, was the fact
that she had on all her jewelry.

(30:12):
She had diamond studs, in herear, she had a gold charm
bracelet on her wrist and on herother wrist she had an NCAA
championship watch.
Which you only get, if you.

Speaker 2 (30:27):
When the NCAA championship Go to the Final
Four.

Speaker 1 (30:31):
It's about like the rings or whatever they give you
for making it, and then you getthe championship ring, but you
get a ring for the men and theygo to the NCAA championship.
You get a ring the women,apparently in the 80s I don't
know if they still do.
I didn't look up that part, butthey got a watch and Brenda,
who was just you, would think itwould be the other way around.

(30:51):
She had just started in thefall of 86, so she wasn't a part
of the 85 NCAA Final Four.
So where did that watch comefrom?
It's where we take a step backand we go back again.

Speaker 2 (31:12):
Going back, back, back, back, back, back to
actually 1967.

Speaker 1 (31:19):
Joelle LaShawn Tillis was born.
She was born in 1967 and wasknown for her trademark gapped
tooth grin and a preference forthe finer things in life which
kind of didn't mesh well.
Never mind the fact that shewas born into poverty and by age
seven was a child of divorce,living with a single mother

(31:42):
raising her and her two sistersin a small town, in the small
town of Hammond, louisiana, andbarely scraping by.
Joelle decided very young thatshe was never going to struggle
like her mother had and made ither mission to take care of her
mother and her sisters and makesomething of herself and kind of

(32:03):
make clean up.
Nice, basically.
And she managed her own way outof Hammond by playing
basketball, something her sixfoot stature greatly helped with
.
She was recruited and begangoing to NLU in the fall
semester of 1983, and, wouldn'tyou know, she met the supposed

(32:26):
matchmaker in Silver PlatterHeaven.
She met a man named Ivren IvrenI-V-R-I-N.
Ivren Bolden Jr.
He's a pre-med student from avery prestigious and wealthy
family from Shreveport,louisiana.
He had money, he had brains, hewas six foot six, which was

(32:47):
perfect for this six foot tallJoelle, who had no qualms with
immediately becoming an item andaccepting all of the flattery
and attention and, of course,the gifts that came along with
Bolden's affections.
But the wrinkles didn't takelong to start wrinkling and

(33:08):
although it was never bad enoughto take away the high-class
dream of Easy Living that camealong with him, but it was
definitely tumultuous and a lotof that came from the fact that
Joelle and Bolden both werehighly competitive.
They had things about the otherthat they were jealous of.
So, like Joelle was jealous ofBolden's money obviously in his

(33:32):
you know push life and Boldenwas really jealous of the fact
that Joelle was ridiculouslypopular and liked, or just loved
and just popular in general thefact that she could just walk
into a room and everybody likedher.
He hated it because it wasn'tlike that for him.
He didn't come that easy.
Like money was his winner, itwasn't his personality and he

(33:55):
was never-.

Speaker 2 (33:55):
Which is usually the case in those cases.

Speaker 1 (33:58):
Right, and from the novel.
Apparently a friend of thefamily told Fran that he was the
type of person that he couldn'tlose.
It wasn't an option.
So if you were playing like anew card game, say, he would
keep playing not only until hewon, but until he had won more
times than anyone else, and hewould like insist that you kept

(34:20):
playing until he got to thatpoint where he had won more than
anybody else.
So he was a really competitivereally almost like brow-beaten
into him, hushabase aboutwinning and doing well.
So much so.
And then again, this is fromthe novel but his parents were
not okay with him not being thebest.

(34:42):
So much so that when hegraduated from Fair Park High
School he was in line to be thesalutatorian, which is great.
His average was, his GPA waslike 4.535 or something crazy,
but he was still not number one.
He wasn't going to be asalutatorian and when his

(35:03):
parents found that out theybasically talked his school into
letting him take two or threeextra credit classes to be able
to nudge him just enough aboveto be the salutatorian.
Funny thing about that eventhough he was technically a

(35:23):
salutatorian, he was stillquoted as being salutatorian in
some of the articles that Inoticed from these cases.
So I thought that was prettyfunny.
That might have been a spoileralert, anyway.
So they become an item prettyquickly in 1983, but when they
meet at NLU and, like I said,from the first interactions,

(35:44):
basically they were glued at thehip.
A funny thing to note.
They didn't go back to IvernBolden's family a lot like for
vacations or for holidays.
They often went to Hammond, toMarla Spates, which was Joelle's
mom.
They would go visit her and gospend holidays with her because

(36:06):
her mom was way more acceptingand understanding and just glad
that Joelle had found someone.
But Bolden's family kind oflooked at Joelle like a gold
digger and didn't approve ofthat relationship at all really
and kind of shunned her.
Even when she was invited toholiday dinners and things and

(36:29):
outings that she was still kindof looked down on.
We are better than you, we makemore money than you.
You're just here because youwant some of it.
Basically was how she wastreated initially.
So they are cruising along and,like I said, the cracks start
early and they just keep gettingworse.
And keep getting worse becauseJoelle starts to realize that

(36:50):
she is being smothered and beingkind of dictated and controlled
by.
Ivern and towards the end of hiscollege career, because he was
already there when Joelle gotthere in 83.
They met in 83, he was alreadythere.

(37:11):
So he actually graduated in 86and she continued until 87, the
end of 87, 87-88.
So by the end of his gettingnear the end of his college
career was basically when shestarted to realize, like this is

(37:34):
when it all cracked up to be.
But then they had already beenso co-mingled for so long.
At that point it had been threeyears that they had gone and
they basically spent everyholiday together.
He would go and see her mother,without him or without her, like
he would just go visit her mom.
And I feel like and I thinkFran actually mentioned this in

(37:57):
her novel is that he craved thatkind of loving family, that
accepting, nurturing mother likeJoelle's mom, and he had never
really had that.
So when he got that from her hekind of clung to that because
he had a lot of money thrown athim, he had a lot of
expectations thrown at him, butit wasn't love, it was do good

(38:21):
or else.
So he had already dug his feetin pretty deep and he was
obsessed.
He wasn't going to let go easy,he was going to ply her with
gifts.
I think one of the birthdaypresents he gave her was he
rented an entire yacht and acrew to serve just the two of

(38:43):
them as they like cruised aroundthe golf yeah, like shrimp
cocktail, champagne, all that.
And that's that money, money.
We're not talking about alittle bit of money, damn Money,
money.
And a car that he had in hisname that he gave to her like it
was a lot.

Speaker 2 (39:00):
Yeah, but like that happens still pretty regularly.
You don't see many mothers justrenting a yacht and a crew.

Speaker 1 (39:08):
Yeah, yeah.
So all of these things werevery enticing.
But again, joelle feltsmothered and she was one of
those people.
She was the life of the party.
She liked to interact withpeople.
She was a people person.
She was given many nicknames.
One of them was like PrincessDie, because she was always like
trying to be fancy and fruitfruit, but she was always
smiling.
And then the other one was likeQueen's something or another.

(39:33):
Anyway, she was well known andvery popular.
Like you have more than onenickname by different groups of
people throughout your life,like you've made an impression
right.
So good nicknames, hushabase.
So she is popular, vivacious,the life of the party.
But the more attention she gotand the more attention she gave

(39:57):
to anyone other than Boldencreated issues In his mind.
He was supposed to be the onlyand most time consuming
relationship that she had andwhen he started to feel like he
wasn't, it got rough.

(40:18):
Like he would throw fits, hewould get upset, he would make
her feel bad and cut offconversations and he would sit
on the phone and tell her sheneeded to get off the phone with
whoever it was she was talkingto.
Like just very controlling,very jealous, very overbearing
All I'm getting right now isconspiratorial.

Speaker 2 (40:36):
Yeah, that's not it.

Speaker 1 (40:38):
Anyway, just not good , all of the not good.
So by the time Brenda Spicerrolls up oh, I did mention that
Joelle is also because sheplayed basketball she was
obviously playing for NLU, right, the Lady Indians.
She was on the team that wentto the Final Four at the NCAA.
So guess what she had?

(40:58):
The Watch, the Watch.
Oh, the chains are starting tolink.

Speaker 2 (41:05):
The Chains.

Speaker 1 (41:05):
Tune.
And also I don't know if Imentioned this because I'm
really bad at this she's black,so is Ivern, both from black
families, vastly differentupbringings, whatever.
Like I said, one was wealthy,they were poor, slum, whatever,
low, low economy, low low class.

(41:28):
He was upper middle.
And then you've got BrendaSpicer, who is a five foot eight
white girl from Gina.
She was born in 1968.
Was he an intonation on purpose?
What intonation?
Anyway, a five foot four whitegirl from Gina, pretty much so.

(41:50):
Born to Charles and PaulineSpicer, she graduated Gina High
School in 85 after she took herteam to the sweet 16.
She, according to all sources,all papers that I read, she
lived basketball.

(42:11):
She was very popular.
She was also a member of theNational Honor Society.
Almost every year, everysemester, she was on honor roll,
according to the papers, andshe loved basketball more than
anything.
Now, that doesn't necessarilymean that her life was easy.
Although her family was uppermiddle class and she was liked

(42:34):
by everybody, she had a hardexperience, a couple of hard
experiences, but one that really, really really damaged her was
she was actually a triggerwarning.
She was gang raped.
Oh, come on.
She was gang raped in highschool by a team.

(42:56):
They shoved her into a lockerroom and just brutalized her A
bitty girl After that.

Speaker 2 (43:10):
So she came back and she beat all the asses in
basketball.

Speaker 1 (43:12):
Pretty much.
But basketball became her wayof kind of taking back that
power.
She went through a lot oftherapy.
She had a lot of ups and downs.
Obviously, the day that goesthrough something that traumatic
, they're going to have thingsto work through.

Speaker 2 (43:29):
They got to work through the trauma, things to
redo the sentence just so that Idon't laugh.

Speaker 1 (43:32):
It's fine, I can edit it out.
So by the time she graduatedshe was in a much better place
mentally, but she still wasn'tquite happy.
I mean, there was alwayssomething that was different,
there was always something thatwas off.
And if you haven't guessed bynow, guys, she was gay.

(43:52):
She's 100 million thousandpercent gay.

Speaker 2 (43:56):
But as a time.

Speaker 1 (43:58):
She couldn't tell anybody, she couldn't even begin
to pretend to express that,even with her family and
something as close as they were,everyone knew that that was not
okay.
You couldn't talk about it, youcouldn't be out.

Speaker 2 (44:12):
So you mean to tell me that a little girl that got
gang raped by an entire teamdoesn't like men?

Speaker 1 (44:21):
She didn't like them before that, but she definitely
didn't like them after.

Speaker 2 (44:24):
Damn sure the reason or not, it got solidified Right.

Speaker 1 (44:29):
So she just pushed her that much further away from
that kind of thing.
So, yeah, yeah, whoops, yeah,it's okay.
I figured it was going tohappen anywhere.
So, like I said, she'd workedthrough a lot of the trauma, she
worked through a lot of herissues by the time she hit NLU.
She was recruited and 1985, shestarted that fall semester,

(44:51):
coming off of their final fourwin at the NCAA tournament,
right.
So she was technically retardedfor her freshman year, which
just means that they were savingher to be able to be eligible
for a year on the end, becauseyou're only eligible to play for
so many years in a row and notcollege Got it.

(45:11):
So if you're retarded when youfirst get there because you're
younger, they can actually waitto use you in a later year.
Okay, okay so.

Speaker 2 (45:19):
I'm pretty sure that's the thing she was seated.

Speaker 1 (45:21):
Basically, but she was still a part of the team.
She was still on the team andall of that, but she was also a
part of the sanctions andeverything else.
So it kind of a glum year whichturned even glummer Is that a
word?
In October of 86, because shehad to have knee surgery which
kind of put a damper on thewhole playing for the team thing

(45:43):
, because you know, once you gothrough knee surgery you have to
do your recovery.
All of that, and not only that,but then again in February of
87, she got hit with anotherknee surgery and this was the
first day of practice that shetook her knee out in October and
then had to follow it up withanother one in February.
And so by that point a lot ofother stuff had happened and

(46:05):
we'll get there, but just keepthat in the back of your mind.
It was already kind ofsnowballing out of her biggest
love of life, of basketball, wasgoing down the drain just right
out of the gate, which was soshitty.

Speaker 2 (46:21):
So did you find what happened Actually, like what
happened to her knee.
What was it?
I have no idea, okay.

Speaker 1 (46:28):
I think she'd had knee problems in high school as
well, but I think it wasprobably ACL or one of those
that you know one of the onesthat you're not really going to
come back from.

Speaker 2 (46:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
And I know she was going to try right, but then all
of the other things thathappened subsequent to the first
surgery and I mean like she wasstill kind of hopeful all the
way up until the end of.
February, yeah, so they gothrough.
And then Brenda and Joelle meet, obviously when Brenda joins

(47:01):
the team, and that just sohappened to coincide right
around the time that Boldenactually had graduated and had
started his pre-med classes downin New Orleans.
Okay, so only shitty part aboutthat was that Bolden, with his
jealous, fucking overbearingbullshit that he would do, who

(47:25):
was still trying to control herevery move, joelle's every move,
from New Orleans, and if hecouldn't do that, he would come
back on the weekends.
And then he started coming backmidweek.
And then he started coming backand showing up every like every
time she turned around andsounds like a good time to get a
gun.
Right.
And so, slowly but surely, themore time she spent away from

(47:46):
Bolden, joelle felt more free,like she was kind of like
breaking the breaking thebreaking through the fog, I
guess of what his presence hadcaused her to feel and think and
see, and also her newfoundfriendship with Brenda, and they

(48:06):
were instant friends.
Brenda was a hit from the getgo, like she was immediately
popular, immediately welcomingor welcomed onto the team and
it's just immediately successfulin making all of the friends
they was fucking.
And yeah, eventually.
But they got that.
Brenda and Joelle got extremelyclose.

(48:29):
Some would say too close, mostwould.
Others would say it's none ofyour business, let them love who
they love.
But my point for this story isthat they did get very close and
all of the teammates were awareof it and then every time that
Ivern would call or ask about itthey were.

(48:50):
They would always be told thatthey were out together.
And so his fixation of jealousyand just rage in general turned
towards Brenda, which wasevident by the handwritten
letter that he wrote to her toback off and to leave him behind
, and the multipleconfrontations and arguments and

(49:15):
conflicts that were very publicin nature, because, I mean,
they still lived in the dorm,they were part of the team, so
they lived in the dorm and theyhad like a sister, big sister,
little sister type thing.
So like the freshman coming inwould room with a senior and
Brenda was a freshman, joellewas a senior, so it was kind of

(49:37):
like that and that's kind of howthe papers and everything
played off their relationshipand that's actually what Joelle
was quoted later as saying was Iwas like her big sister.
So, yeah, we get there, no,brenda and Joelle's relationship
blooming, blossoming, both ofthem thriving in that and with

(49:59):
the team, other than the surgeryand stuff.
But I mean they were still, youknow, positive to a certain
degree.
But there were also thealtercations and, you know,
frictions that were caused bytheir relationship, taking time
away from Bolton, and he didn'tlike it.
He made it clear he didn't likeit.
There was one person on theentire campus that anybody could

(50:20):
point to when asked like, whowould not like, who would have
caused, who would have caused tohurt or be upset with Brenda,
they would all point at the sameperson, which would be Mr Ivern
Bolton Jr man.
I wonder why?
No idea.
So on the morning of March 6th,when her body is found and
she's identified, actually bythe coach of the basketball team

(50:44):
, everybody's mind goes to thesame thing and, yeah, nobody
wants to say anything, nobodyactually wants to point that
finger.
Eventually it does get pointed.
But remember, this is a blackfamily, this is a white woman.
This black family, specifically, is very wealthy and very

(51:05):
influential and probably verygood donors.
Oh, and did I mention the factthat the NLU Lady Indians were
trying to recruit Ivern Bolton'slittle sister?

Speaker 2 (51:17):
No, I don't think you did.

Speaker 1 (51:19):
So why would you want this college to now point the
finger at the older brother ofthe girl that you're trying to
get on your team?
To make your team better, tocome back from these sanctions
that you got, from beingimproper in a woman-to-woman
relationship who now?
There is a dead woman in adumpster.

Speaker 2 (51:40):
Yeah, almost all rich kids have dead women in
dumpsters.

Speaker 1 (51:43):
Right, so when?

Speaker 2 (51:46):
all of this came around.

Speaker 1 (51:48):
it wasn't so much that they didn't talk or that
they didn't say what theythought, it was more, they only
answered questions.
They were asked, they didn'toffer up information and they
didn't come right out and saywhat they were feeling, thinking
and what the majority of themknew to be true.
And it gets worse Because inFran's book she paints the

(52:14):
picture of Brenda and Joelle asobviously being lovers,
obviously being involved witheach other, being caught in the
bed in their dorms together,being told to stay away from
each other except for practicenot being able to do so.
Basically the tug of warbetween Brenda and Ivern and

(52:34):
basically having put Joelle inthe middle of the two and making
her decide when we're the other.
Now all of this was kind ofcoming to a head because in the
beginning of 87 January,february around there, like I
said, things were kind of goingsnowballing downhill for Brenda
because she had the first kneesurgery, she was about to have

(52:55):
another one, her dream ofplaying basketball in college
was kind of looking like itwasn't going to work out and she
was also a gay female in lovewith a gay black female.
So when you talk about thetabooist of taboo relationships,
at this point, you've got aninterracial gay couple, so it

(53:18):
wasn't looking good.
And then, on top of that, you'vegot this bolden who throws
money at her, gives her whatevershe wants, but is also like
disgustingly, disturbinglysuffocating.
And she still didn't feel likeshe could win, though, and a lot
of times, because Joelle playedboth sides.
It should be fair.

(53:39):
She did.
She, she'd accept all of thegifts and everything from Brenda
, because she did, she gave hergifts as well.
She, you know she had a littlebit of money.
She wasn't bold and yachtwealthy, but she was, you know,
they brought up in a prettywealthy family, and so she did

(54:00):
play both sides of the loopbecause she just she liked
having things and like gettingthe monies and having the choice
, and so she would go from oneto the other, and she knew what
the acceptable relationship was.
Joelle did, and she knew whichone was going to be able to
further her in her idea of whereshe wanted to end up in life,

(54:21):
and it wasn't with the whitegirl in a gay relationship.
That was a former teammate, youknow what I mean.
Like it just wasn't.
It's one of those things thatshe knew what front she had to
put up, regardless of how sheactually felt inside.
So around February Joelle endedup having a birthday party,

(54:45):
invited both Ivern and Brenda,without telling the either
that's a lot down.
And then Ivern decided to havelike a family dinner but then
told Brenda she couldn't comebecause it was his family and
Joelle.
So Joelle went with him andBrenda didn't get to.

(55:06):
So Brenda decided.
This is at the birthday party.
Yeah, she was okay.
They threw a birthday party forBrenda at her mom's house.
Right, they were both invitedto that one Right.
Joelle was invited to Ivern andhis family's birthday
celebration for her.

Speaker 2 (55:24):
Right.

Speaker 1 (55:25):
And Brenda wasn't allowed to go.

Speaker 2 (55:26):
Okay, because it was Ivern's family.

Speaker 1 (55:30):
And so Joelle was like okay, well, I'm going to go
with him and go celebrate mybirthday.
Brenda, you can't go, and in anormal friendship there probably
wouldn't be that big of a deal.
But this was.
She was in love with this girlRight, 100% infatuated.

Speaker 2 (55:42):
And they it just didn't sound like it would be a
big deal Like in this situation.
I can fully see how it would be.
It just it sounds reallyfrigging trivial.

Speaker 1 (55:52):
Right.
But, in her mind she waspicking Ivern over her.

Speaker 2 (55:56):
No, no and I get that .

Speaker 1 (55:57):
I understand.
And so that night later Joellegets a call from her teammates.
They are telling her thatBrenda is really messed up.
She took a lot of pills.
She said she only wants her,that she's going to drive down
to meet her and to see herbecause all she wants is to be
with her.
And Joelle leaves the partythat Ivern is has thrown for her

(56:22):
and she ends up meeting Brendaand the teammates at the
hospital where they end uppumping Brenda's stomach call it
a suicide attempt.
And the coach actually shows upand says we'll take care of it
on campus, because normally theywould have like admitted her
you know at least a 72 hour holdfor psych.

(56:42):
But the coach ushers thehospital that you know we'll
take care of it and do itin-house and that way we can
keep it out of the papers.
And they leave that night.
Couple of days later theyofficially cut Brenda from the
team.
So not only now does she haveno future of basketball, and in

(57:08):
her mind.
Joelle keeps picking Ivern overher.
So now she has no basketball,no hope, no future, and she
actually withdraws from collegeas well.
So she withdraws from collegeand goes back and spends some

(57:28):
time with her mom, but she'sstill going back and forth to
campus and now that she's nolonger a student she doesn't
have a room.
So who does she stay with?
Oh man, I wonder.
Joelle and her roommate.
And the night of their last homegame on March the 5th, she was
staying in the dorms with Joelleand her other teammates, or

(57:49):
former teammates.
At this point, but I mean, likeat this point at the end of
February, early March, she hadkind of changed her disposition
a little bit.
She had decided that she wasgoing to go ahead and enroll
back in school and start takingin a couple of classes and to
make her way back to the teamafter her recovery.
But you know she was going tohave a positive outcome.

(58:11):
And this is where we get intothe speculation and this is
where her creative libertiescome into play with the novel.
She, in the novel Fran Parker's, she has a chapter where it's
talking about the day of March5th, the day before the murder,

(58:32):
and she says that Joelle Justtook license.

Speaker 2 (58:35):
Yeah, Sorry, I was just bothering because I knew we
were off.

Speaker 1 (58:39):
So Fran says that Joelle had decided to completely
break it off with Ivern and toyou know, basically like cut
that cord and be done with themand then officially,
unofficially, be with Brenda,that they'd even set up this
public breakup type situationwhere they would meet up at the

(59:01):
ice cream shop and Ivern wouldgo with Joelle and Joelle would
meet up with Brenda, unknowinglyby Ivern, and that once they
got there, joelle did what shesaid.
She told them that they weredone, they were finished, and
that was that.
And according to the novel,which grain of salt?

(59:25):
Ivern was like okay, that'sokay, but we can still be
friends, right?
So Ivern said that, yeah, yeahno, he didn't.
So, but I can believe it though,because of how the rest of this
goes, to a certain extent,because let's play nice Like as
competitive as he is.

Speaker 2 (59:42):
Let's play nice.
As competitive as he is, youthink that he just that he just
took the loss and accepted it?
Yes, I don't, not for a fuckingsecond.

Speaker 1 (59:49):
He played like he did .
Yes, he did, and there's areason.
So they go on, and earlier inthe day, before they went to the
ice cream shop, they I knowJoel and Ivern had actually gone
to a mini warehouse, a ministorage warehouse thing, because
Ivern, when he had graduatedthe year before, he had actually

(01:00:12):
put the majority of his stufffrom there.
He just put it into storage.
And so they went over there togo get something out of storage
some shoes or something andspent a couple of hours like
rearranging the entire insideand like clearing out a space.
Like half of the warehouse orhalf of their storage unit was

(01:00:32):
like cleared out and they put,basically pushed everything to
one side, so there was like abig empty space on one side.
So really weird, really strange.
Go to the ice cream parlor hegets broke up with and then that
night was supposed to be thenight of the last home game and
at about like five-ish, joel andmom who would come up for the
game.
They wanted to go out to eatbefore the game and to have to

(01:00:55):
spend a little bit of timetogether or whatever.
They invited Ivern who was inthe room.
Brenda had gone back to hangout with the teammates or
something, and so they go to eat, they invite Ivern.
He's like nah, I think I'lljust watch on TV, whatever, and
then I'll meet y'all there.
So at about 5.30, according toone of the teammates, there was

(01:01:16):
a phone call from Ivern toBrenda in the room, in the dorm
room, and once she got off thephone she said she was going to
go meet Ivern to get a gift thathe had got for Joel for her
home game, which was not unusualhe gave her gifts all the time
but he said he needed Brenda'shelp and Brenda made the comment
I may not come back from thisand she left around 5.45.

(01:01:41):
Now there was a camera thatBrenda had that she was supposed
to give to Ivern and meet upwith him to give to him to take
pictures of the game formemorializing her last home game

(01:02:02):
, joel, because it was hersenior year.

Speaker 2 (01:02:04):
It was her last game.
I knew it was supposed to befunny, but that's really
frigging poignant.

Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
So he was supposed to meet her to get the camera and
whatnot, and then he called herahead of time to go under the
pretense of getting this giftready for Joel as well, made the
weird comments the teen made,left the room and from that
point on no one saw her aliveagain.

(01:02:31):
So as it stands right now we'vegot the only person on the
planet that has caused todislike Brenda is Ivren.
The last person that wassupposed to be making contact
with Brenda was Ivren the lastperson to absolutely to have at

(01:02:52):
least made contact with her atsome point that night, because
he had the camera that she hadin her possession.
So the camera that she hadIvren ended up with at the game
with this said camera and shewas never seen again until the
next morning when she was foundin the dumpster.
Now the autopsy came back.

Speaker 2 (01:03:16):
Do we really need to try?

Speaker 1 (01:03:18):
after a little while oh yeah, we do so.
The autopsy came back that shehad died by what it was the
craziest way that they braisedthis.
So it was heart failure andlung embolism due to manual
strangulation.
Don't know why they had to getall crazy with it.
She was strangled to death bysomeone taking their hands,

(01:03:40):
wrapping them around her throatand crushing her neck until she
could no longer breathe and wasdead.
Like that's where it wasn'tbecause her heart failed.
No, it was because somebodystrangled the life out of her.

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
Like cessation of life due to.

Speaker 1 (01:03:56):
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
So not only that, but this iswhere it gets a little hinky,
because this is where, yeah, inautopsy specifically because,
the coroner, the medicalpathologist.
He couldn't say strictly thatshe had been raped because the

(01:04:20):
vaginal, anal, all of the things, none of them showed trauma.
Okay, that can mean a lot ofdifferent things.
You know, some victims of asexual assault can be coerced
that you can still be rapedwithout it being forceful.
So, yeah, she could havealready been dead, could have

(01:04:42):
already been dead was one.
Another is being held at nightpoint is another.
You remember her bra beingsplit in the middle, clean cut.

Speaker 2 (01:04:50):
Yeah, I'm pretty sure I would comply.

Speaker 1 (01:04:52):
No, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't, but with her and her
trauma there was no way ofknowing.

Speaker 2 (01:04:56):
No, I'm pretty sure she wouldn't, I'm pretty sure I
wouldn't.

Speaker 1 (01:04:57):
I just If you were in , the headlights blanked out,
and then just you know, whateveryou say, whatever, please don't
do this.
But like you know Right,there's no way of knowing for
sure.
So, anyway, he couldn't say forsure that she was assaulted.
She could have said that shewas raped, quote unquote.
He could definitely say that,based on the bruise patterns on
her shoulders and or hershoulders and inner thigh, inner

(01:05:24):
thighs that it definitelylooked like someone had held her
down or held her in a positionto allow for the sexual acts,
and he found semen not only inher vagina and anus but also in
her nose and mouth.

Speaker 2 (01:05:45):
Right, she wasn't raped.

Speaker 1 (01:05:48):
And also had saliva on her breasts and I want to say
it was somewhere else too, butI think.
But the saliva specifically wason her breast and the semen was
in everything else, basically.
So Not a lot else Like therewas and the only other thing

(01:06:13):
that he found how much else doyou need Listen?
Because again, it's one ofthose things that it becomes
important.
So the only other thing that henoticed that was of
significance was a like a wad ofbubble gum in her stomach.
So it was like a chewed wad andhe said that that could have
ended up in her stomach, becausemost adults aren't going to

(01:06:35):
swallow a big wad of bubble gum.
He said that could have beenfrom the strangulation or that's
been this case.

Speaker 2 (01:06:41):
Yeah, or the force of the you know that's a whole
thing now, or it was for a longtime, or something Like we have
to be talked about it.
Okay, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:06:55):
So, other than that he couldn't say for sure that
she was raped or that it was dueto that.
But, like, all of those thingshappened within the same amount
of time and he put her time ofdeath somewhere between 6 and 7
pm the night before her body wasfound.
Okay, so that means thatsomewhere after 5.45, but before

(01:07:17):
8 o'clock that night she hadbeen murdered and then her body
had been dubbed and left in thatdumpster.
So last person she was supposedto be seeing, Ivern Okay, she
supposedly shows up at thebasketball game but no one ever
sees Brenda.
She's never accounted for.

(01:07:39):
There were some articles thatsaid she showed up to the
beginning of the game and thenleft, but that didn't actually
happen.
She was never there.
She was outside and had metwith Ivern outside but they had
gotten to a vehicle and likedrove off.
And that was the only othertestimony from anybody that
could have for sure said likethis was the last time she was
seen.

Speaker 2 (01:07:57):
It's like I don't like to, you know, speak ill of
the dead.
But what the hell, dumbass.

Speaker 1 (01:08:04):
Right, well, again, this is one of those things that
you know she was trying to dowhat she thought would be in her
best.

Speaker 2 (01:08:13):
She was trying to make nice so she could get more.

Speaker 1 (01:08:16):
She was playing the long game, right, the long con,
yeah, so in her mind she wasn'ttechnically scared of him, but I
mean, like he worried her, surethat it wasn't something that
she was Right.
She had no cause to be afraidof him.

Speaker 2 (01:08:29):
Not really.
He was real, real conny, and hewas real persistent, but he had
never done anything physical.

Speaker 1 (01:08:33):
He had never shown any signs of aggression like
that.

Speaker 2 (01:08:35):
Yeah, so I can, I can see that.

Speaker 1 (01:08:38):
The only other witness statement or witness
testimony was not a very goodone, but remember how I was
talking about the time periodand what stands out right now.
So you're talking about a sixfoot six black man and a five
foot eight white woman blondewhite woman, Five foot eight
isn't that small.
With six foot six, it's still anoticeable difference.

Speaker 2 (01:08:59):
Black and white.
Definitely something thatyou're gonna remember.

Speaker 1 (01:09:02):
Yeah, it's still a foot difference, especially for
these people in the south thatare still, ooh, that kind of
idea, like I said in thebeginning, and there was a guy
who, a gentleman he worked atand was the owner of a gas
station that was across the roadfrom the mini storage that just

(01:09:25):
so happened to be the same ministorage that Ivorin and Joel
had a locker in.
That says, on that night, alittle before six, he saw a tall
black man and a short or whitewoman standing over by the
lockers and one of the lockershad its door raised about
halfway up.

(01:09:45):
He said he saw them over theretalking.
They didn't look like they werehaving an altercation or
anything.
He said it almost looked likehe was trying to convince her to
come in.
And then he said well, that'skind of weird, but again,
interracial, not a thing, that'snormal, not noticeable,
remember, you remember,especially when there's a white

(01:10:07):
girl body found the next day,it's something that sticks out
in your mind.
So the next time he looks up hesees that the car is still
there, but a little bit afterabout six, six, 30, I think he
said the car was gone, it was nolonger there and the locker was
all the way shut.
Now he was not close enough andhe was never able to fully say

(01:10:30):
and identify who those twopeople were.
He just had the general tallblack man, short white girl.
That was it.
That was pretty much all he had.
There was no other definingfeatures.
There was no definitive oh yeah, that was definitely Ivoryne
and definitely Brenda.
It was not like that.
It was just kind of an offhand,like okay, well, this is the

(01:10:51):
same warehouse, that might havebeen them, and so all of that.
And then you've got thebasketball game right.
So Ivoryne's there, noticeablythere, he's taking pictures, he
even gets into almost like ashouting match with the ref at

(01:11:11):
one point and is making a ruckus, basically making himself
noticeable.
Now this is the part whereyou're going to be really
disappointed because, remember,joelle is playing in the game,
joelle's mom is there in thestands and Ivoryne was sitting

(01:11:31):
with the mom for the majority ofthe game.
But there were at least twoother witnesses that noticed and
watched Ivoryne leave the gym,go out to the concession stand
but then continue out the gym.
And then the other witness onewitness saw him leave the gym
but the other witness actuallysaw him outside in the courtyard

(01:11:51):
like running across thewhatever you want to call that
the green courtyard, thecourtyard, the courtyard, not
really, but like it's, like the,you know, the, the commons, the
quad, whatever you want to callit.
Yeah, so saw him running fromthe coliseum, which was the gym
there, and then and that was alittle after 6, 30.

(01:12:15):
And when he came back to thegym and his his explanation
later was I went down and got, Iwent to the bathroom and then I
got a water for my sister orsomething, and then I came back
and it was a really long lineand that's why it seemed like I

(01:12:36):
was gone for a long time.
But there were plenty of peoplethere who said I was there the
entire game and you know, I wassitting next to Joelle's mom.
She could tell you yada, yada,and the guy who saw him running
was just, it was just the oneguy and he said it was sure was
him because he knew him from allof the things.
But there was a noticeablechange in clothes by at least

(01:13:04):
two people who noticed andthought, wow, that's weird, why
would he change clothes athalftime?
And you would think that thiswould be easy to confirm, right?
Because they record every gamefor practice and for, you know,
for Playing back the tape tolearn from it, for the

(01:13:27):
basketball, for the girlsspecifically, and then also for,
like, this was the last homegame.
So there were a lot more Like.
Obviously they were going torecord it and, strangely enough,
the tape that was used thatnight to record the game.
When the cops were heard thatIvern had changed clothes and

(01:13:48):
were trying to later rule thisout, they went to go check the
tape out from the library wherethey kept all of the game tapes,
and when they got there noticedthat the last person to check
out the tape had been Joel, andwhen they tried to play the tape
it was no longer able to beviewed.

(01:14:09):
It was irreparably damaged andno footage was able to be seen
from the game from that night.
And the camera that Ivern hadthat had all of the pictures
that he was supposedly takingthroughout the entire game
didn't have any pictures of him,obviously, because he was the
one holding the camera.
So there was no proof that hehad changed clothes, which he
denied.
He said he didn't do that.

Speaker 2 (01:14:30):
Of course he did so.
Of course he denied it.

Speaker 1 (01:14:35):
It leaves or doesn't leave at half time, but he left
at half time, came back and wasthere till the end of the game
and then, at the end of the game, was in just like a real big
hurry to get out of there, toleave.
Now he drove his car back toNew Orleans and then, after the
body was found and they weretrying to get witnesses and

(01:14:56):
testimonies and statements fromeverybody, they called him and
told him to come back.
And this is the shittiest partof the story, other than you
know Brenda losing her life.
Nobody called her parents.
The investigators were actuallyin Joel's campus dorm when her

(01:15:16):
phone rang and answered it andit was Brenda's mom asking if
anybody had heard from Brenda,because she hadn't called her,
and the police at that time saidoh yeah, sorry, your daughter
was missing and, by the way,she's dead, jesus.
But nobody had even called totell her that she was missing
from the night before.

Speaker 2 (01:15:35):
That's ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (01:15:35):
Yeah, so that's how they found out.
They immediately came over andyou know they had to identify
the body and do all that and itwas just not good.
So they get Ivern back up andget him into the police station.
Now, when they brought him into speak with the police,

(01:15:58):
apparently everybody and theirmother and their dog showed up.
So, like the basketball coach,the president of school, like
all of these people show upNobody showed up.
When Brenda's mom and dad gotthere, nobody.

Speaker 2 (01:16:13):
Like there was no reason for them to even be there
for Ivern.

Speaker 1 (01:16:15):
Anyway, he shows up and the first thing out of his
mouth when he walks through thedoor is they were having a
lesbian relationship and I wasgonna.
I'm gonna tell everybody aboutit if y'all try to pin this on
me.
Seriously, bro, Seriously, Ithought you were supposed to be
smart.
What the hell are you doing?
He goes in there without a turn.
Maybe the school doesn't doanything to him.

(01:16:37):
Yeah, pretty much that'sexactly what happened.
So he goes in there and hetakes two, not just one, two.
I just take the dress, feelshim both Without an attorney,
and I guess maybe he justthought that he was gonna like
skirt and like shirt, whatever,All right.
So Eventually they get a lawyerin there, Eventually they keep

(01:17:00):
him from making any morestatements and eventually comes
back around to Joel and Joelsays well, he was there the
whole time, my mom can tell you.
And sure enough, Joel's momgoes into the police station,
makes her official statementthat says yep, Ivern was there
the whole time.
He only left for a little bitat halftime to go get something
from the construction stand anduse the bathroom.

(01:17:20):
But he was present and thereand there is no way he could
have done this.
And then the very next day theygo to the warehouse, the police
do with a search warrant.
They find what looks to be aspot or splotch of blood and
they're also running tests.
Now, this is the 80s.

(01:17:41):
Okay, we have a very simplisticidea of what DNA is or how to
test for it and how to use thatin any kind of criminal
investigation.
I actually have a timeline butI don't even think I'm going to
get into that because I'malready running a lot longer
than I was going to or I hadplanned to.
But this is already going to betwo parts, so bear with me.
So they find what they think isblood and I think they also

(01:18:08):
take away like a stuffed animalor something from the warehouse.
But there's also still.
There's just not much.
There's not much there.
But they believe the blood tobe Brenda's.
But that nothing ever reallycomes of that.
It just, you know, there's apossibility that, coupled with
the eyewitness that saw a tallblack man and a white woman

(01:18:28):
there at around the same timethat Brenda was supposed to have
been murdered, and seeing thatthere was some kind of
interaction of blood, but laterJoelle comes back and says that
she cut her hand or something inthe storage space and that's
where that blood came from.
So she claims that as well.
Lot of covering, lot ofcovering.
So eventually what it comes backon the DNA from the semen and

(01:18:54):
from the saliva.
They find out that it is type Aand the donor is a secretor.
Now, if you have no idea whatI'm talking about, you haven't
watched forensic files like Ihave.
But a type A secretor, or justa secretor in general, is a
person whose genetic material isactually present in things

(01:19:18):
other than their blood.
So like I think it's, like Iwant to say 80 something percent
.
I haven't written so okay, soit's completely independent of
the blood type.
So you can be a, b, a B or O,and you can be a secretor or a
non-secretor.
It's completely independent ofeither.
So the antigens which arepresent in their blood will also

(01:19:42):
be present in their body fluidslike saliva or snot or tears.
So or yeah, but that's a semen,but yeah, they also found
saliva on a breast.

Speaker 2 (01:19:52):
Now, I just know they found a lot more than that.

Speaker 1 (01:19:55):
Right, but the only problem with that, though, is
that a type A secretor.
It's.
Something like 80 percent ofall people are secretors, so
it's more more rare to be anon-secretor, for where your
stuff isn't in any of youreither ejaculate or your sweat
or your saliva.

(01:20:15):
So the saliva tested and thesemen tested was a from a type A
secretor, which Ivern was, butso was 80 percent of the
population.
So not a real good defining.
You know it was definitely him.
No, they didn't do that becausethey didn't have that specific

(01:20:36):
DNA, not back then.
So what you have is a lot ofcircumstantial, a lot of pieces.
If you put them together andlook at them a little bit
sideways, they look like theyfit.
Plus, if you also take thatinto account, with.
Nobody else had any reason tomurder Rinda.

(01:20:56):
Nobody else had any kind ofconflict with her that could
possibly have ended like that,not in that way.
Now they didn't have any otherevidence.
They had no other way ofproving one way or the other.
They had a couple of eyewitnesstestimonies that showed.
You know it could have been him.
He could have had theopportunity.

(01:21:18):
He was the only one who had themotive.
But they had no way of actuallyputting him there, no way of
actually putting his handsaround her neck and no way of
definitively saying as much.
Now, what they did have was atleast two people, one of which
was the best friend of themurdered victim.
Former team made big sister.

(01:21:39):
According to her, who hadn't?
You know what everyone wouldbelieve, no reason to stand up
for someone who potentiallycould have murdered her best
friend.
But you had her testifying thathe didn't do it.
It couldn't have been him.
He was at the game the wholetime.

(01:22:00):
And then you also had hermother saying the exact same
thing.
So when he came down to whatthey did and died him for second
degree murder, he went to trial.
He was set on bond.
I don't think he got out onbond for about a month.
After he tried to get a bondreduction the judge said hey,

(01:22:23):
I'll know what.
They went ahead and paid it,got him out and he tried to
continue his classes but heended up flunking out due to
everything in the trial.
So if he wasn't, already.
He was already not doing wellbecause he was so overly
concerned with the relationshipbetween Brenda and Joel.
He was skipping classes, hewasn't going regularly and he
was just failing in generalbecause he wasn't as smart as he

(01:22:45):
liked to believe he was,basically because his parents
had, you know, silver platteredhim all the way through, all of
it, convincing him that he wassmarter and better than he was.
And he just he wasn't.
So he gets indicted.
They eventually go to trial in88.
And he's charged with seconddegree murder.
They sit the jury with ninewomen, three men and after four

(01:23:09):
days of testimony from all thedifferent witnesses, including
Joel and she was called for theprosecution.
But she ended up being more ofa defense witness and also her
mother and and not just thosetwo, but another cousin who
comes into play later.
His name is Shannon.
He also testified on our Ivern'sbehalf, like and I say on his

(01:23:30):
behalf, it was more like um, itjust it bolstered him, looking
better.
There was not a bad word thatanybody said about him.
All of his former and like allof the newspaper articles that I
read, all of them said how, um,how nice of a guy he was and
how good and how friendly andhow you know, just really smart

(01:23:50):
and very, you know, well rounded.
They couldn't see somebody likehim doing something like that.
It just didn't fit hischaracter.
And apparently the jury agreedwith all of that and after three
hours of deliberations, onMarch 13th 1988, he was
acquitted.
Not, not a mistrial, not alet's try this again in a minute

(01:24:10):
no, he was found not guilty ofsecond degree murder.
And the one article that I sawand I'll post that on the
Patreon, um, it said that thejury finds the alibi witnessed
past the test.
Like they put a lot of stock inthe fact that Joelle and her

(01:24:33):
mother vouched for him and gavehim a solid alibi pretty much
throughout the entirety of thetime that it was said that, you
know, brenda was supposed tohave been murdered.
So he was acquitted and shortlythereafter, um, joelle
graduated and moved to a Kenton,new Orleans, and then they,
within a month or so or a couplemonths, ended up moving to

(01:24:55):
Memphis, tennessee, and thatshould be the shittiest end to
any story ever, right.
No oh no, there's still anothermurder, there's still another
trial.
Actually, there's two moretrials, which is why this is
probably one of the mostinteresting, even though it's

(01:25:16):
from 87 initially.
Like this is probably one ofthe most interesting legal cases
that we've covered this far,because it gets so spiderwebby,
especially in the next part.
So this is where I'm going toleave you guys for this one.
So he has been acquitted.
He gets no punishment, noproblems, no issues came from

(01:25:41):
this.

Speaker 2 (01:25:41):
Like just be aware that if you're mad, you're not
as mad as I am.

Speaker 1 (01:25:45):
No, no, no, no, no, no.
I was a gassed when I realizedthat, not like I was maybe a
mistrial, that's what I wasthinking but a quill, a quiddle.
And for all of our true crimejunkie fans out there, you guys
know what an acquittal means,right?

(01:26:05):
That means double jeopardy isnow a factor.
So, no matter what happenslater, he can't, can't by law,
he cannot double jeopardy, andwe'll get into that next time.
So thank you, guys forlistening.
Thank you so much for beingpatient with me, because I know
this episode got out late and Iapologize.

Speaker 2 (01:26:24):
This is essentially still an open case, cold case,
unsolved.
It is not.

Speaker 1 (01:26:30):
I'm just saying.

Speaker 2 (01:26:31):
I mean technically I, oh it's unsolved because they
fucked up.

Speaker 1 (01:26:33):
No, no no, no, technically it is, but it isn't
because they just couldn't.
They couldn't prosecute himagain.

Speaker 2 (01:26:38):
But you guys will see which means they fucked up.

Speaker 1 (01:26:39):
They know it and it's not that they effed up, it's
just that they basically youwant to mean they didn't know
that?
They did, they absolutely did.
But I honestly believe andespecially in this case, that's
the reason I went into all ofthe background of NCAA issues,
all of the NLU problems and, youknow, all of the stigma that
was hanging over them at thetime I believe that all of that

(01:27:02):
played a bigger role in hisacquittal than anything else,
because there was the blackwhite stigma of a black man
killing a white woman.
Oh, you just want to frame iton me because I'm the easiest
target, because I'm the only onewho had any kind of argument
with her, even though you haveno evidence, no proof all of the
things like that was a bigplayer.
And then you also have this theybrought up the lesbian

(01:27:23):
relationship at trial with Joel,who vehemently denied it, and
then none of the other teammateswould step up and say anything,
otherwise None of the none ofthe coach, even though everybody
knew that's what it was.
And I feel like if there wereballs dropped, it wasn't on the
investigation, it wasn't on theDA, although they did let a
rookie, a freaking rookie.

(01:27:44):
It was her very first criminaltrial as an ADA for Washington
Parish.
They let her lead this trial.
Yeah, so anyway, that's wherewe're going to leave you for
this time.
I'll do a quick recap on thenext episode, which means you'll
get an episode next weekinstead of having to wait two
weeks.
So again, you're welcome.
We love you.

(01:28:04):
Go check out our website, ourTikTok, our YouTube.
Been getting lots of thumbs upon my YouTube here recently, so
I appreciate that from everybodywho goes on there and does that
.
If you have a second, leave usa rating and review.
If not, just tell your friendsabout us and shoot us any kind
of case that you've come intocontact with or you would like

(01:28:25):
to hear us cover, or somethingthat you just would think would
be an interesting story, becauseI love those, those are my
favorite.
Give me something to deep diveinto and please don't, Please do
.

Speaker 2 (01:28:38):
Everyone's know.
I like to talk to her.

Speaker 1 (01:28:41):
All right, guys, you guys take care out there and
we'll see you next week.

Speaker 2 (01:28:45):
I'll see you next time.

Speaker 1 (01:28:46):
Bye.

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Beneath the Victory Cheers - The Case of Ivrin Bolden, Jr. Case - 1/2

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Beneath the Victory Cheers - The Case of Ivrin Bolden, Jr. Case - 1/2