Beneath the Victory Cheers - The Case of Ivrin Bolden, Jr. Case - 2/2 - CenLAw

Episode Transcript
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Kellye (00:00):
Previously on CenLAw episode twenty two part one,
beneath the victory cheers themurder that shook Monroe.
So last episode just to do aquick recap.
We went all the way back toactually, we eventually went
back to eighty three, but themurder of Brenda Spicer.
The eighteen year old up andcoming hopeful at Northeast

(00:25):
Louisiana University, now knownas ULM.
In Monroe.
She was murdered.
Her body was found in adumpster outside of/ on campu s
outside of one of the buildingsin between the museum, which is
where the

Kyler (00:41):
It's not a zoo.
As it's

Kellye (00:44):
The Coliseum, which is the gymnasium.
Basically, this is what theycall their gym.
Okay.
So in between the gymnasium and

Kyler (00:54):
They don't have lions.

Kellye (00:57):
Conveniently, the warehouse storage lockers of
which Ivrin Bolden, who was themain suspect.
He was taken to trial for themurder, um, owned a storage
locker, which they surmised shehad been murdered in, and then

(01:18):
he had taken her from there tothe dumpster on the campus on
his way back to the game rightbefore.
So long story short, he goestrial.

Kyler (01:27):
And they bungled it.

Kellye (01:29):
Well, bungled, whatever, but you also had testimony from
star witness for his defense.
I didn't think they was shegave him an alibi that stood up
to the test according to thearticles from the jury that they
did interviews after the trialwas done.
And not only did the girlfriendtestified, this girlfriend was

(01:55):
even more believable because shewas also the former teammates
on the basketball team at NLUwith Brenda.
They were very close.
According to testimony in trial, she said they were like
sisters the lesbian girl.
They were lovers.
They were in a relationship.
And according to the book byFran Parker that I mentioned a

(02:16):
lot last episode, and we'llwe'll continue to in this
episode as well.
Deadly Triangle, a brand wrotethat, you know, everybody pretty
well knew that they werelesbians, that they were in an
romantic relationship that wasinterfering with the
relationship that she had withIvrin, which caused him to be

(02:39):
jealous, which caused him to

Kyler (02:42):
to

Kellye (02:42):
lose it, and what she

Kyler (02:45):
said, if that was how it started, would have at least
made some sort of sense?

Kellye (02:49):
What do you mean?

Kyler (02:50):
I mean, like, if they had just right off the bat and
gotten together when when sheand I've run.
I've run we're we're together.
But, like, if he hadn't beenstalking and creepy and rapey
beforehand, I don't think thatthat would have actually
happened.

Kellye (03:09):
Well, entering speculation station pulling in,
in a big old caboose, way in aback.
We There are mentions of exesfrom one specific ex from his
high school that he did for awhile that she disappeared and

(03:32):
was never found and wasclassified as a runaway.
That is a rumor.
That is a rumor.
That is a basement.
You know, a lot of people'spark financing.
A lot of people I found atleast three different mentions
of this.
Mhmm.
And for cooperation, I couldnot find an article related to
any kind of missing person.
I believe he was at high school.
However, just like he hesomehow became a father going

(03:53):
well, one of these things thatI'm gonna mention real quick is
that, again, we're talking aboutthe late eighties, early
nineties where being gay wasalmost as bad as being a woman
and also almost as bad as beingracist.
Like, it was just there was athere was a lot of things going

(04:13):
on.
Like

Kyler (04:16):
Think about that.

Kellye (04:17):
I oh, okay.
So the way I said it didn't.
Okay.

Kyler (04:20):
I I know you were the one

Kellye (04:21):
Black, it was bad if you were a woman.
It was bad if you were alesbian and a woman and you were
black.
It was never gonna happen.
You weren't gonna make it outof that alive.
And coming from a perspectiveof they probably were infatuated
with each other.
They probably did try to hideit and keep it from themselves
or to keep that from being theirkind of relationship because

(04:45):
they knew it could never be athing and because they knew they
could get in trouble, becausethey knew they could cause drama
and hardship and issues withineverything, but they only had to
last a little while longerbecause Joel Tillis, who was the
girlfriend slash formerteammate slash girlfriend of the
deceased Brenda slash slashslash liar on the stand.

(05:08):
Anyway, she was about tograduate.
She was gonna graduate in thespring of the next of eighty
eight.
So they wouldn't have to waitmuch longer.
They could, you know, existoutside of the college.
They could exist outside of theteam, being teammates, and
being lesbians, which ease alittle bit of that stress

(05:28):
because, again, we're gonnawe're gonna we're gonna scoop
into the station because Freinand her novel she state
specifically something to thefact that her account and I have
I mentioned this last episode,her account of the events of of
all of this is is semi firsthand.
But novel that she wrote, shekind of writes in a fashion of

(05:54):
omnipotence.
I'm I'm sorry.
That's wrong.
Automation.
So Yeah.
Omni presence.

Kyler (06:01):
Yeah.

Kellye (06:01):
Anyway, she can she's she writes from the perspectives
of Joel, and she writes fromthe perspective of Brenda.
And I'll like, it it's thirdperson third person omniscient.
So Omnipotent.
Right?
No.

Kyler (06:12):
No Omnipotent is all powerful.

Kellye (06:14):
Right.
Right.

Kyler (06:15):
I'm just she's all knowing and omnipresent is the

Kellye (06:18):
Okay.
So Everywhere.
Regardless, she like God,sitting there watching this.
She fly on a wall, whatever,however you wanna put She is
Absolutely.
Speaking as if she was there insome of these occasions and
when we know she wasn't, but alot of the information that she
got for the novel came frompeople that were.
But again, you can only takethat so far.
You can only take it as much asyou want to put stock in it.

(06:41):
So fictionalized, true story,artistic measures were taken.
So my point behind all that isto say that in the novel,
there's a specific chaptertalking about the day of the
fifth, March fifth, leading upto Brenda's murder.

(07:02):
And in the novel, Fran says,that, you know, Joel had gone
with Ivrin and basically haddecided that she was gonna break
it off with him so that shecould be with Brenda.
And her and Brenda had kindaplanned this public breakup at
an ice cream parlor after Joelhad gone and spent time when

(07:24):
Ivrin in that morning, they meetup at the ice cream shop
unbeknownst to Ivrin to dump him.
And he is all cool concollected, Mr.
Cucumber, and says, okay.
Well, we can still be friends.
We can make that work just tobe friends.
Right?
Right?
So long story short, he playsit off.

Kyler (07:46):
A lot of long story short .

Kellye (07:47):
It doesn't make sense at all.
And by the time that Joelrealizes that Brenda is missing,
she knows what happened.
She is I mean, there therecould not have been a singled
out in her mind.
Otherwise, she wouldn't havelied for him.
She wouldn't have covered forhim.
She wouldn't have destroyed thetape from the basketball game
showing that it changed clothesat half time.
She would not have allowed hermother to get on the stand.

(08:09):
And and, you know, because hermom also testified, not Ivrin's
mom, Joel's mom.
Joel's mom gets on the stand,says he was there the whole game
.
There was no waiting yet timeeven though they had other
witnesses to the contrary,people who saw him leaving the
coliseum, people who saw him,you know, a good distance away

(08:30):
at the same time that he says hewas either in the bathroom or
at the concession stand.
So take that for what it was.
The jury made the decision.
They did not declare a mistrial.
They voted eleven to one toacquit, and that's what happened
.
He was acquitted.
He was found not guilty.
And he and Joel sailed away,rode off our horseback into the

(08:52):
sunset.
Right.
Happily ever after he's gonna,go to the military he was gonna
let them pay for his doctors,medical education, and it was
gonna be smooth sailing fromhere on now.
You believe that?

Kyler (09:09):
Yeah.
You shouldn't.

Kellye (09:12):
Yeah.
Because it's not what happens.
Unfortunately, because therewouldn't need to be a whole
other episode if that was whathappened.
Mhmm.
ohaveu love to talk sometimes.
I do.
I when we're talking and I doit to tell stories, so that's
why we're here.
Speaking, I'm telling storiesbefore we get into episode
twenty three hit it.
Meat and potatoes.
Okay.

(09:32):
So, hey, if see my worked outthat our audio on the other
recording messed up and we hadto redo this because we got our
very first.
Patreon.
And part of being a Patreon forcinema.

(09:54):
Is getting a shout out forjoining and onboarding this.
Yeah.
And I wanna say, Kailah, thankyou so so much.
I will shortly be sending outyour commissary package because
she only did she become aPatreon, she became our life
without parole member.

Kyler (10:16):
Of course, she did.

Kellye (10:17):
Of course, she did.
She gets the big package.
Alright.
I mean, because you've neverfine.
So thank you so much for yourpatronage.
And I'm still trying to figureout what I wanna call Patreon
members.
So if I get more than 1K, I'lllet me know.
You throw something at me.
If if I like it, you we'll justgo with it.

(10:37):
Because, I mean, like, firstgrandkid gets to go it gets to
make the the grandparents' names.
Right?
So it's kinda like that.
You get to name with the restof the coronae aircraft.

Kyler (10:47):
About those.
Because that the coronae isExpect those.
We expect those some overtropicists.

Kellye (10:55):
Does they do for that?

Kyler (10:56):
And you guys wanna check it out.

Kellye (10:58):
There's, like, there's some stuff that is is not
required to have a membership tosee, but a lot of those do.
Stuff.
Juicier stuff or any more bonuspictures.
A lot of the unedited blooperreel type stuff is in there.
And I've got pictures of mylike episode preparation notes
and things.
It's just a lot of cool stuff.
And also, as soon as you becomea member, you get a care

(11:19):
package.
If you become the life withoutparole, though a lot And You're
welcome.
And I think that one's I thinkit's a five dollar buy for the
all members.
And all of the stuff is thesame.
I don't break up the only thingthat's different between the
bigger care package andcommissary package in the
smaller package is literallywhat you get in your initial

(11:44):
member gift package.

Kyler (11:46):
Because that's for cereal stuff in the big world.

Kellye (11:48):
Right.
You you get more things.
And and because you're gonna bein there for life, so you gotta
have more stuff.
Right?
That's my idea.

Kyler (11:53):
Anyway But at the very least, because you paid more so
you can get more.

Kellye (11:56):
I haven't said that.
Thank you so much, Kayla.
Again, very first, Petrone, theNissan member, and I couldn't
be more grateful.
You should have seen the smileon my face earlier.
I was trying to figure outbecause I'd never had a member
before.
I didn't know where to go hadan alert on

Kyler (12:10):
my phone pretty much all day

Kellye (12:11):
because I couldn't figure out how to clear it.
So anyway That's great.
I did my I did luxury shorts.
Thank you.
And everybody out there, youdon't have to be a patron to be
a patron is You don't have to beable to try whatever from what
you don't have to be an expectoto be able to get my affection.
I appreciate you guys justbeing here and listening.

(12:32):
We're gonna scoop right on intonineteen eighty eight.
This is episode twenty three,part two.
And two in nineteen eighty nineas well.
We're gonna kinda roll intothat.
This episode we are I'm gonnaget through the bulk of the end
of the story here pretty quick.
And and I see pretty quick.
It's probably gonna be abouttwenty twenty five minutes.

(12:53):
But it doesn't take long to getthrough this to get to the next
court section.
Right?
But once we get there, it's

Kyler (13:04):
been with it for a while.

Kellye (13:05):
It's gonna be a little bit of a lot.
So That's a lotto.
It's a lotto.
That's true.
And by that, I mean, this caseand I think I mentioned this
last episode, it's got so manylegal laws.
And, like, what happens?
The there there are presidentsand and different parts of the

(13:27):
law that you have to get into inthings that I actually had to
go look up because I didn't knowwhat they meant.
Like, I learned a lot justbecause of this one case about a
multitude of things.
So I'm gonna get a little bitpreachy, a little bit tea tree
Okay.
A little bit loyered on the endof the episode.

(13:49):
So if you're not really herefor that side of it because I do
try to make sure and have a a alegal beat of education of the
legal system because that what Ilike to believe is a little bit
different about our true crime.
We throw in not just the crimepart, but we also, like, keep a

(14:09):
little bit the the legal thelegal side because I find both
equally fascinating.
So having said that, let's goback.
To nineteen eighty nine.
Give a little bit of your loveto be as the trial of Ivan
Bolton.
His acquittal occurred on Marchthirteenth.
So almost exactly a year and aweek.

(14:32):
After Brenda's body was found.
They had a three hundredliberation, then he was off on
his merry way.
And now since we've alreadyrecorded the first good chunk of
this.
I'm I'm trying to not skip overthings that I know I included
the last time, which isdifficult However, I do know

(14:54):
that I made mention because itcomes into play a little bit
later.
I've written senior becauseremember is Ira Bolton junior.
He is junior doesn't do a lotof talking in the media and such
.
But senior loves to talk to thepress.
Like, I literally have a notein my notebook, which you can

(15:16):
see if you have the picture onthe Patreon.
Eight.
So, Kayla.
Kayla.
And actually, the only notethat I have I have arrows
pointing at Ivern senior.
He loves Underline UnderlineUnderline Press.
And then there's anotherhandwriting off to the side
that'll note jotted chatty asfuck.
Because literally, I I as I'mscrolling through the new the

(15:39):
newspapers and getting all ofthis background and and to see
exactly how this kind of workedthroughout this, you know,
timeline I kept coming acrossIvan Baldwin Senior, Ivan
Baldwin Senior, and, like, theheadlight and the things that
this man said, some of you guysare going to be in reach out.

(15:59):
It's not gonna be fun for you.
It's probably gonna make youwanna hit something.
And as long as that's not, like, your children or your pets,
like, go for it.
I'm like pillow, your anger,pillow, aggression, pillow, go
with that.
I hear that's a thing.
I Is that what you call?

Kyler (16:17):
Yeah.
I I can't say it on there.

Kellye (16:18):
Okay.
Beautiful.
So as he was leaving, andgetting back to his life is
normal or whatever the hell youwanna call it.
The newspaper article is read,bold and focuses on the future.
Now that nightmare is past.
Golden eyes of future, not thepast.
Golden jurors, alibi, was justthe test.

(16:41):
And then there is a mention onabout the, I don't know, I guess
, the seventeenth of a Marcheighty eight that said that the
case was reopened by the police,but that was the last mention
of that ever because the articleactually ended with a quote
from one of the investigatorssaying we got the right guy the
first time.
So Yeah.

(17:02):
That's what they still believedand they weren't wrong.
So let's keep trucking.
So Not

Kyler (17:08):
a trucker.

Kellye (17:09):
Yeah.
By mid eighty nine, they wentto Marla Bates, that is Joel's
mother.
They went to her house forMother's Day, and that was May
sixteenth of eighty nine.
They had moved to Tennesseewith Joelle's cousin.

(17:33):
So it was Joelle Iraen andShannon.
That was her male cousin thatmoved up to Tennessee with the
two of them because Iraen hadflown out a college.
He blamed it on the try.

Kyler (17:47):
After being a valid Toryn ?

Kellye (17:49):
Yeah.
Wow.
He fucked initially, he fuckedout of med school, but then he
was going to take, like, hischemistry

Kyler (17:55):
Which is am I giving that that that's That's still
something hard.

Kellye (17:59):
Yeah.
No problem.
But he he was going to do hischemistry major stuff, but he
had told the newspapers and whenhe was eyeing the future that
he was gonna go to the militaryand then that he was already
recruited, and they were gonnapay for his school yada yada
yada, that didn't happen.
He did not finish college inany shape or fashion.

(18:21):
He actually packed up and movedout or moved in with him in
Baton Rouge or somewhere downthere.
After she graduated in thespring of eighty eight, and then
after the trial stuff.
And then they moved toTennessee a short time after.

(18:41):
I could never find it, like,exact positive date.
And when they actually moved toTennessee, I just know it was
between the late eighties, earlyeight early late eight, early
eight nine year.
So by May, they were livingthere.
They had come down to visittheir Joelle's mom in Hammond,
and that was on May eight or Maysixteenth.

(19:03):
I'm so sorry.
And day left after that weekend, Joelle's mom, Marla, she said
there was no lines of anythingoff or, you know, nothing
nothing sat with her as uneasyor made her think that there
could be a problem brewing orthat something bad was gonna

(19:25):
happen.
It was just a normal visit.
And she gave them all kisses,told them all love.
You to then sit them on theirway back to Tennessee?
At this point, Shannon, thecousin, Ivan, and Joel were
living in an apartment together.
Joel was the breadwinner atthis point because Iraen had
just gotten fired from asecurity job that he had and he

(19:49):
was working at Graceland.
And we talked about this thefirst time we recorded even
though, you know, we can't getthat.
And I'm I'm still gonna put iton Patreon because when we
talked about this the first time, it was a question that I had
for Kyler, and I was pretty Iwas pretty surprised and shocked

(20:09):
that he hadn't been too gracely.
And I I've been to Graceland,and my mom is in Elvis well, we
see.
She was on one of the otherepisodes.
She is in Elvis nuts.

Kyler (20:20):
We see you.

Kellye (20:21):
Yeah.
So Kyle has never been we gottatake the kids and go up there
because it's actually reallycool.
So that's why it's, like, up.
But anyway, so great land.
That's where we were talkingabout doing the tourism things.
And Ibrance had actually gotthe cousin Joelle Shannon.
She he had got him a jobworking in security as well.

(20:45):
Well, Shayden checked his joband for whatever reason, which I
could not figure out, it wasnot mentioned, I even lost his.
So at this point now, becauseyou're not a very secure person.
If anybody actually ratherinsecure.
Right.
If if anybody remembers fromlast episode, which you could
probably connect the dots here.

(21:06):
Ivan likes to be in control.
He likes to be the one that isable to have that grip basically
and say, I've got I've got themoney, I've got the job, I've
got the wealth, I I'm providingyou have to do what I you know,
all of those things.
So now

Kyler (21:25):
figure out how to be a god damn people person.

Kellye (21:27):
Now add to that the fact that you've murdered someone.
And I know you murdered someonebecause I testified that you
didn't murder someone now, I'mjust as guilty as you.
And that add that to anyrelationship and tell me how
that works out.
You've got her holding him,well, I'll just go tell the

(21:51):
police.
And then him, well, you go tellthe police, then how could you

Kyler (21:53):
You're a little bit comfortable.

Kellye (21:54):
Exactly.
So you've got this push andpull back and forth.
And if you leave me off tellthem that you were a part of it
or, you know, that kind of thing.
Because he's that guy.
He's a hundred percent that guy.

Kyler (22:04):
Yeah.
From that.

Kellye (22:05):
Like, he's out kill myself if you leave me, but
instead of that is I'll take youdown with me if you leave me.
Yeah.
So and is believable because Imean, like, strangled, raped,
and brutally savagily murder.
Anyway, so popping.

Kyler (22:22):
Exactly.

Kellye (22:23):
Tensions, the egg shells , the Egg shells, an amount of
just overwhelming that had yoube building up with inside of
Joel because it never was agreat relationship.
I mean, they had good points.
They had good things about them.

(22:45):
But

Kyler (22:46):
Yeah.
Joel.

Kellye (22:47):
According to a friend a close friend of Joel's at the
time that would that would talkto Joel on the phone pretty
frequently.
She later told I I believe itwas Fran, but it may have been
second hand.
Again, not second

Kyler (23:01):
hand, not

Kellye (23:01):
second hand, Fran.
She told that friends Mhmm.
Within the day or so of theevents that I'm about to tell
you about that she Oh, thoseones?
Mhmm.

Kyler (23:12):
The the devotion for Khuzco

Kellye (23:14):
Khuzco Khuzco Fuzin?
Her friend said that she felttrapped, that she wanted out,
that he was obsessed, And what Italked about earlier with the
ice cream parlor, that actuallyhappened.
That would explain a lot.
Because she had stood herground, said, I'm leaving you.
I'm done with you.
I feel, like, I'm beingpressured and feel trapped, and

(23:37):
I want out.
And he was like, okay.
Cool.
Cool.
Cool.

Kyler (23:42):
Cool.
I'll let you out.
Cool.
Right here

Kellye (23:44):
in this kitchen.
Murder.
And then now we can be together, see how much I love you.
I got rid of the problem.
And

Kyler (23:53):
You you were the place

Kellye (23:54):
Instead of running and screaming the other direction.
She was so sweet.
No.
I don't even think it was that,honestly.
I think it was, like, oh, well,I guess this is my best option
now.
Which is sad, but I honestlythink that just from everything
that I've read and everythingthat I got and that's probably
where that line of thinking in.

(24:14):
So anyway, so they're in thisreally shitty relationship.
This terrible dynamic and youevery single one of you, man,
female, whatever you identify myass, you deserve better than
anything close to this.
So if this sounds familiar,Jesus Christ call me, send me an
email.
I'll come get you like, don'tdon't do this.

(24:35):
So this was I think it was Mayseventeenth was the phone call,
was friend.
And there was an article I cameacross that actually said that
friend mentioned something aboutfinding of scene pictures of
Ivern, and that Joelle said shewas knocked when she found them

(25:00):
and what they portrayed of him.
And

Kyler (25:04):
It was a booty.

Kellye (25:05):
And there was another piece of information that she
told the friend about, which wasa letter from a intimate friend
who was a male that she foundalong with these obscene
pictures.
So remember how and I don'teven shit.
I think that was in their lossrecording as well.

(25:27):
And I mentioned something aboutthem both having baysetool and
or gates.
Yeah.

Kyler (25:31):
I'm pretty sure that was in the

Kellye (25:32):
last month.
Anyway, in my opinion, it's ahundred percent my opinion.
No one else is no one else isresponsible for the majority of
the same.

Kyler (25:40):
I guess it's a hundred percent opinion.

Kellye (25:41):
I'm gonna for sure, but that most of it is backed up.
And I try not to put too manyhead be over to my actual
opinion of what I believe.

Kyler (25:49):
This is a self made self Right.
English.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We're gonna talk about thingsin our own brains, ourselves.

Kellye (25:58):
So my opinion is if they if they both if they weren't
gay completely, they were bothvery bi bisexual.
They were equally attracted tothe opposite sex.
But as taboo was it was forlesbians, it was way more taboo
for gay guys.
So I get it.
So it was just that it was justAnd that that would also
account for some of theirritation in the pent up rage

(26:19):
and, you know, that that feelingof control and all of the
things and to be able to prove Ilove women, look how pretty she
is, look how good I did, lookwhat I look what I have.
Look, actually, can't be gay.
You know what I mean?
That kind of idea, which wouldmake sense because the time.
But then again,

Kyler (26:38):
that should still happens today.

Kellye (26:40):
That Yes.
I I yeah.
I know.
So that's kinda my point.
So May seventeenth of nineteeneighty nine, she's on the phone
with this really close friend,which is now kind of the friends
reported later.
It is kind of remedicine of theBrenda situation with Joel

(27:02):
because Ivern has started actingjealous of her because they
spent a lot of time on the phone.
Joe, I would call her andcomplain you know, just girl
talker.
They'd wanna if they wanted togo out, he had to know when,
where, how how long, and whothey were gonna be with, and he
started to portray those samekind of reactions and emotions

(27:23):
towards this brand.
The controlling

Kyler (27:26):
Right.
Semi sociopath was a Right.
Also he was also going toalienate her?
He was he was making sure thathe was the only one that she
gives you the She'll get you incontact with something that if
if she wanted to have anyfriends that they had to be her,
Right.
They had to be him.

Kellye (27:39):
Well, and and you add on top of that that this specific
female friend was known to beWasness of the straightest arrow
.
Yeah.
So she she also like women.
So she's a curve.
Mhmm.
So he knew that.
He knew that about her.
And whatever it was, whether itbe jealousy, whether it be

(28:03):
upset because she had gaveFrench she could talk.
Did you mean my good and goodmove?
However, you wanna call it hedidn't like it.
And before they got off thephone at around four AM, that
morning.
So they had talked from thenight of the seventeenth to the
early morning hours of theeighteenth.
Her Joe Allen, this friend.
And she said before she got offthe phone with her, Joel made

(28:26):
it clear, like, I'm done.
I'm not doing this.
I'm over it.
I'm I'm not I'm not doing thisanymore.
I'm gonna I'm gonna leave him.
When she hits it before and shehad left before and, you know,
wouldn't have stayed with hermom for a while, and then we
eventually went back.
Because who else what else bondyou to someone like extreme

(28:47):
drama, which is They don'treally fucking anything.
Right.
But psychologically andhistorically, this is an actual
occurrence.
Like, oh, gosh.
And for my At that point, we'rerunning together.
You're gonna

Kyler (28:59):
At that point, he'd been he'd been controlling over so
long.
She might have just had stockon this.

Kellye (29:03):
Well, honestly, if if you think about it, this was me
a fan of from the eighty threethis is eighty nine.
That's six years.

Kyler (29:09):
I'm going fucking dying.

Kellye (29:10):
That's how long were they?

Kyler (29:12):
How long were they?

Kellye (29:13):
Oh, but oh, yeah.
Absolutely.
Like, the most malleable yearsof your life.

Kyler (29:18):
Not even that.
Just in in the amount of timethat they had lived, six years
out of twenty four, it's aquarter of her life.
Was my was my point I wastrying to make, I didn't know
how old they were.

Kellye (29:27):
Right.

Kyler (29:28):
Or do you remember?

Kellye (29:29):
Well, that that's that's kind of my point too, though.
Like, those are very formidableyears to conquer as they are,
but you throw in something likeall of the tangled web that this
is, it gets even murkier andharder, and then you you kinda
get such in this run of nobodyelse is ever gonna understand me

(29:51):
or, you know, be able to loveme in the same way because they
don't know all of my skeletonsand such.
So she left sometimes She cameback.
She always came back.
Well, at this point, like Isaid, she was the main
breadwinner, and she was workingat a lady footlock at the mall.

(30:12):
Mhmm.
They're in Nashville, I believe.
And

Kyler (30:17):
Sounds about right.

Kellye (30:19):
She was working, and so she needed the car.
Well, that morning, her andIvern got into an argument about
something to do with the car.
The cousin was present and wasthere and witnessed the argument
that he was like, everyinterview he gave back that it
didn't seem like it was a bigdeal later they wouldn't have

(30:41):
breakfast at McDonald's.
It didn't like, it seemed likeit was all good.
It didn't seem like somethingthat would have warranted what
happened next.
So that was all in hindsight

Kyler (30:52):
of what I mean.
But none of what they do seemslike it should warrant what
happens next in any of their

Kellye (30:57):
Any of it.
None of it.
So Joelle had to be at work bynoon and or by one.
So they left actually, Ivanended up driving her in the car
instead of letting her take

Kyler (31:14):
the car, which is getting into the engine.
Has to be at work.
I mean yeah.
But still like,

Kellye (31:19):
he didn't have a job.

Kyler (31:20):
Oh, you didn't want her to take it?

Kellye (31:21):
He didn't want her to take the car.
He wanted to be able to controlthe situation and now it's
giving her a way to leavebecause he didn't want her
leaving without him knowing.

Kyler (31:28):
Yeah.
That's retarded.

Kellye (31:29):
Yep.
This is him.
Still.
So

Kyler (31:32):
I just I I because in my mind, the the most logical
outcome if it was that that wastaken into account him needing a
car.
If we're actual something is,you know, he take her and then
take take it and take bring backand pick her up.
Because that would be the mostlogical use of the fucking car.

Kellye (31:54):
Right.

Kyler (31:55):
But he just doesn't want her to use it.
That's right.
That's dumb.

Kellye (31:58):
He doesn't want her to be able to add and independence
to be able to go where she wantsto go and do and she wants to
do without him knowing.
So they leave that morning heis taking Joel to be dropped off
at the mall.
And come that evening, Joelle'smother calls and asks Ira, hey,

(32:21):
have you heard her part?
She didn't call me todaybecause Joelle called her mother
like clockwork every single dayif for no other reason just to
say, hey.
So it was kind of all I but notcrazy.
Like, off because they don'thave cell phones.
They have to have a landline.
So, of course, like, sometimesthings happen.
You get caught up.
You get tired.
Whatever.

Kyler (32:39):
Somebody's on the computer.

Kellye (32:40):
That's not even that time yet.

Kyler (32:42):
Okay.

Kellye (32:43):
So he says, well, last time I saw her, I dropped her
off at work, and I haven't heardfrom her since.
And Joel was such an a goodemployee, and she'd already
become a manager in there.
At the Lady Foot Locker.
And the her employer at work,her her boss at work had already

(33:06):
called and made note of thefact that she wasn't there.
So everybody's like, okay.
Well, she's just going to blowoff steam.
Her friend's like, yeah, shetold me yesterday she was gonna
leave, so maybe she'll showbetter moms.
So when mom calls and says, youknow, have y'all heard from her
you know, that should have beena big clue.
Right?
So by the time the nineteenrolls around and this is the

(33:30):
second day in a row that Joelhas not called and not showed up
for work.
Her employer and her hercoworkers call Ivern and they're
like, look, if you're not gonnasay she's think we will.
We will call the police.
We will make a missing personto report because this is not
like her.
She has never missed more thanone day ever for working here
for as long as she had already.
And this is way out ofcharacter.

(33:52):
If you don't do it, we will.
She said, no.
No.
No.
No.
It has to be me.
I'll do it.

Kyler (33:57):
Red flag number

Kellye (33:58):
two.
Number seventeen hundred andforty three.
She goes basically to thisinstance.
So even crazier than that andeven more evidence to the fact
that she was not just off on herown because she had two full
paychecks waiting for her at thestore.

(34:19):
Like, Okay.

Kyler (34:20):
She was gonna leave she was gonna leave with some banks.

Kellye (34:23):
She damn sure would've come and got the money first.
That just follows all logicprocess.

Kyler (34:27):
So let me get that.
Let me get let me go let me goget my fucking shit.
My Uh-huh.

Kellye (34:32):
My mistake.
Yeah.
Exactly.
But no.
She had two checks still there.
Never picked them up.
And finally, on May nineteenth,he reported her missing to the
authorities, and that when thenewspaper articles start up
again talking about this missingwoman and the headlines are are

(34:58):
very fun, they say.
Tillers resided with friends,accused, killer, missing woman
lived with a man acquitted inbest friend's death.
And then it continues becauseimmediately almost, they they
start getting suspicious.
Police want remember what's onspicier case.
And the next one we seesomething about We see.

(35:25):
It puzzles with her mother.
So At this point of thisarticle specifically, I'll link
it in the show notes too.
It says Bolton's girlfriendmissing three weeks.
And this was an article in theHammond the three port times.
And it says that the policeagency say Joel tell us

(35:47):
disappearance is being IT AS AMISSY PERSON'S CASE, BUT THEY
ADMIT IT'S NOT A TICKICAL ONE.
MARALISSE SAYS HER DAUGHTER'SAPPEARANCE IS ANYTHING BUT
TYICAL OF HER.
Juel's father and I divorcedwhen she was seven.
And so Juel and I became reallyclose.
She has always called.
She never went anywhere withoutcalling, either she was angry

(36:07):
even if she was angry with me,she called.
And that was the last time onmother's day was the last time
that she saw her oldest daughter, and that's when they were
headed back to Tennessee.
Now the things that she wasreally confused about was Bolton

(36:31):
Ira never called her.
Man, that sounds familiar.
He never called her to let herknow.
Didn't it didn't it happen withher?
Brenda.

Kyler (36:37):
Brenda.

Kellye (36:38):
Now, this article actually mentions the fact that
he was charged with Brenda'smurder and that Joel and her
mother testified at the trial,and that was probably her her
testimony, specifically the momsMarla's that her testimony
probably provided him with hismain alibi.
And that Joel had beensupportive of him the entire
time, and then she switches backgears and says that she hopes

(37:02):
and holds out the hope that herdaughter will call and she says,
quote, I don't feel like Joelis dead, but I can't explain
what is happening.
It's strange and babbling.
I pray and I hold on to hope.
And it then it mentions thenext few.
Shannon, the cousin that's beenliving up there, and she said
that she hadn't told her thatthey'd had a disagreement about

(37:23):
who would take the car, but itseemed to be minor issue.
AND IBERTA TOLD THE POLICE THATHE DROPPED HER OFF WITH THE
MALL, SAW HER MAKING A CALL FROMA PHONE BOOZ.
HE SAID THAT SHE ASSUME THATSHE HAD GONE INTO WORK, BUT
Tillis' boss says she nevershowed up.
And he didn't report hermissing until the next night at
seven PM.
They contacted all thedifferent close friends that she

(37:45):
had.
Like I said, the the girl thatshe was on the phone with the
four a in that morning.
Two?
Yeah.
But if if she had a lot offriends, she would remember if
she was very you

Kyler (37:53):
said a lot of friends, like, close friends.
Right.
How many was she allowed tohave?

Kellye (37:57):
Not very many.
I need fewer by the day.
And this article starts to giveus kind of imagery about what
was going on after Joel vanished.
Now she was supposed to be atwork on the eighteenth, on the
nineteenth, you reported ormissing that night, and by the

(38:19):
twentieth or the 21st.
He was out.
He packed up everything oftheirs, including the the bed
the furniture, her clothes, hisclothes, everything out of the
apartment never said a word tothe cousin Shannon and rolled
out.
He said and Shannon said thatthe family, his father, came up

(38:41):
from Louisiana to help him movehis shit out in in, like,
overnight style.
Just up and out.

Kyler (38:49):
So almost like they were used to doing shit like this.

Kellye (38:54):
Definitely another one of the eighteen thousand thread
flags is for I wanna sayanything is normal or anything
isn't normal.

Kyler (39:05):
But All of this is not normal.
I absolutely I will I will forsure say that.

Kellye (39:08):
That's fine.
But if your significant otherhas gone gone missing, you can't
find them.
You don't know where they are.
And you're hoping that they'regonna be coming back.
You have hoped that they'll becoming back.
Why would you leave the placewhere they might come back to?
Why would you take all of theirstuff and leave nothing there
with no way of letting them knowthat you've taken off with all

(39:30):
of their stuff.

Kyler (39:31):
Mhmm.

Kellye (39:33):
Because that is one of the biggest things in my mind
that stands out like a like ablinking red light in a fog.
Like, you can see that bitchfrom my house.

Kyler (39:43):
Yeah.
Instead of holding on to thebeacon of hope that you have

Kellye (39:46):
She might be coming back this is the last place I saw,
or I'm gonna stand right herewith flyers until I see her
again.
She had said that he just goesin one night there when I next
and he said that they took allof their stuff.
Her her stuff included.
Now we're gonna school a littlebit.
Further, May nineteenth, shewas reported in the same.
We get into June, still noleads.

(40:08):
They're At this point, they'rerequesting the records on Brenda
to see how that happened andsee what actually went down with
that.
Across the river, across theMississippi and Arkansas
unbeknownst to the Tennesseeauthorities.
On June eleventh, there was anunknown body found in the river
that was recovered.

(40:28):
It was so badly decompose thatthey couldn't tell anything.
They couldn't tell much.
Outside of it being a female,they couldn't really say
anything else about it.
They didn't know the age.
They couldn't even guess.
They had to send it out to beautopsy eden for the forensics
examination because, man, that'sjust

Kyler (40:50):
serious.
It

Kellye (40:51):
was it was very badly decomposed.
So they also had no way ofknowing for sure how she died.
Because there was no evident orobvious.

Kyler (41:03):
So it's kind of blue.

Kellye (41:04):
You're assuming it could see just so that I could eyes.
So they had to send that bodyout to go get it on top of his
nose on June eleventh.
So I don't know how to

Kyler (41:10):
film a year.

Kellye (41:13):
Almost immediately.
Within within about, I wouldsay, twenty four to forty eight
hours.
Within twenty four to fortyeight hours of this body being
found you know, it it got pickedup pretty quick that this is a
possibility of being Joel.
Mhmm.
Mom commented and said, I I Ican't believe that to be true
until they let me know for sure.
So they actually get her dentalrecords from her mom, and they

(41:36):
send that off.
And because of the very hotweather, the only way were going
to be able to identify thisbody was by dental?
It was she found her body in aditch.
She was a dried out ditch.
That literally was on the mainhighway that came across the
river from Tennessee.
It was US seventy.
And it was less than thirtyfeet off.

(41:59):
Her body was less than thirtyfeet off the side of the ditch,
but because of the heavy foliage, no one ever saw her.
Until that morning, I believesomeone who was he was either
grading or mowing.
I think he was doing a yard ordriveway nearby and saw
something that looked odd.

(42:20):
And then reported the bodybeing found over there.
So

Kyler (42:24):
Oh my god.
It's a lung.

Kellye (42:26):
Yeah.
I think this the actual placewhere her body was found was
about thirty miles southwest ofMemphis.
And and, yes, it was her body,spoiler alert.
So big And I did talk would youidentify the body?

Kyler (42:42):
Would we really talk about it as long as it wouldn't?

Kellye (42:44):
No, absolutely not.
So June fifteenth, it wasactually confirmed that it was
her body.
So she was missing a total oftwenty three days, and her body
was found across the river.
But still not that far.
Like I say, like, it's a bigthing.
It's not that far.
Like I said, it's thirty milesish from Memphis, which is where

(43:05):
they were living at the time.
Her body was found in it waswrapped in red sheets and
somebody had picked up, like,freshly cut grass and spreaded
it across the top of the sheetsthat her bodies was inside of to
try to comfort the body andhide further.
Once they actually got herunwrapped from the sheaves, she

(43:28):
had underwear, khaki pants, justher bra, goldier rings.
Her sneakers were on, and theyestimated she had been there
about three weeks or almost theentirety of the time that she
had been missing.
At the time, even though theyidentified her because the

(43:52):
decomposition, they were gonnahave to further, you know,
examine the body and everythingand blood work and such to be
able to determine what heractual cause of death was, which
was a huge returning factor inwhere they went from there
because it didn't Yeah.
Obviously, she didn't putherself in a ditch unless she
did.

(44:12):
But there was a reason for

Kyler (44:13):
a movement.
Wrapped herself

Kellye (44:15):
and she's and

Kyler (44:16):
and Sprint The

Kellye (44:17):
attorney can put Kohl's in damn near anything.
I'm not saying she wrappedherself up in a sheet, but if
she got drunk, decided she wasgonna take off with just her
sheet in her bra on, and thenwalked off down the road, got
drunk, stumbled, and fell.
I mean, like, there's a lot ofthings that she can she

Kyler (44:31):
she got drunk and stumbled thirty miles.
Maybe maybe she got a ride fromsomebody and she

Kellye (44:35):
didn't know.
Maybe she got picked up by andwanted to hitchhike and try to
get across the country to wearher friend, she was going to
meet wherever they were.
I don't know.
But my point is, without acause of death, without someone
forensic forensic experts say,did you happen a good attorney.

Kyler (44:49):
It would take a hell of good attorney.

Kellye (44:50):
What my point is unless you have homicide undetermined
further investigation orsomething along those lines on
the a death certificate.
Most of the time, Moe's officeespecially back then, Moe's
police officers andinvestigators, and they're not
going to continue you know,in-depth investigation into
something that they don't evenknow if there is something to
investigate.

Kyler (45:10):
Right.

Kellye (45:11):
So they wait for that, and they waited a while.
And the entire time Joel'smother and family are just
wrecked because at this point,as much and as far a denial as
you can possibly be, there is noexplanation outside of he
murdered her and then dumped herand left her on the side of

(45:33):
their road and then let yourfamily suffer for almost a month
, not knowing where she was onlyif find out that she was dead
and left like trash on the sideof the road.
So they were understandablylivid, beyond livid.
And I'm not sure how miss Bateslive with herself as long as

(45:55):
she did knowing that hertestimony provides did the alibi
for the son of a bitch who gotoff of murder the first time
only to turn around and curtledhis daughter from her because of
the testimony she gave.
Can you imagine the rackingguilt that she had to have felt

(46:19):
and just the regrets on top ofthat.

Kyler (46:23):
Selling and I really should pay more attention that
fast forward thing.

Kellye (46:25):
Here's where you guys are gonna get real mad because

Kyler (46:28):
Well, you said the last time when I got pissed.

Kellye (46:30):
Nothing happens.
I'm talking the rest ofnineteen eighty nine.

Kyler (46:33):
I fucked him out.

Kellye (46:34):
The rest of nineteen ninety.
He moves on with his life.
There's a lot of suspicion andduring this period is when
senior gets all chatty with thepapers.
And when I say he gets chatty,he says the most pile of things.
And all they you know, a lot ofthese papers, all they wanted
to focus on was, oh, he was sowell educated.
Oh, he was Magna cum Lani fromNLU.

(46:56):
Oh, he was pre met.
Oh, he's got a wealthy family.
Oh, he's a valactory in all ofhis all of his friends, and he
was just such gentleman.
He was so charismatic.
He was they weren't talking tothe right fucking people.

Kyler (47:09):
No.
They were being paid to writebut they were being paid to
write.

Kellye (47:13):
And Dude, Okay.
It's bullshit.
No.
It is.
It absolutely is.

Kyler (47:17):
Anything ever happened to him?

Kellye (47:19):
You have to stick around and find out, sir.

Kyler (47:21):
I've been I have been misled and and trampled on twice
now.
Mhmm.
And I my my heart can't takeanymore.

Kellye (47:28):
Okay.
The father is just what I'mtrying to find right now.

Kyler (47:33):
I'd like to pick no more.

Kellye (47:34):
I didn't pick this.
This is a listener suggestion.
Do you

Kyler (47:37):
listener?
Just kidding.
Now you.
There's probably gonna be kets.

Kellye (47:44):
If a man acquitted in slang suspect again, bolden, the
most likely suspect X.
When the eventual autopsy cameback and that would have been in
June of nineteen eighty the endof June.
So it was, like, June twentieth.
The autopsy stated that themost likely cause of death was

(48:08):
death by strangulation.
And the only reason that theysay that was because of the
tissue and I believe the high oeight bone was in all my true
crime friends out there.
You know, it was a the highwayis only ever the most indicative
of a straggulation is when thatthing is is because it takes a

(48:29):
lot of force.
It takes a lot of pinpointpressure to break that little
baby bone that's in your neck.
So, strangulation was ruled asthe cause of death, and then
they in to investigate, buthere's the thing.
They're trying to figure outjurisdiction.
Because her body was found inArkansas, but they don't know

(48:49):
where she was actually murdered.
Because if she was murdered,it's in a sea then they have to
have the jurisdiction.
And because that money matters.

Kyler (48:59):
Oh, yeah.

Kellye (49:00):
Again, if money matters

Kyler (49:01):
to sit out another couple times.

Kellye (49:03):
Because You don't wanna pay for an investigation if it's
not their investigation.

Kyler (49:06):
It's it's not the money, bud.
It's not my fault, please.
It says money matters.
Grab him or jaz parents.

Kellye (49:12):
By the time they start looking and realizing this was
her, this has already beenalmost a month now.
They realize it Joelle, thenthey had to start looking for a
crime scene.
They twenty six days later,they're looking at the apartment
, which has been completelycleaned out.

Kyler (49:26):
Oh, yeah.
No.

Kellye (49:28):
They they

Kyler (49:28):
go not even sloped to the vest.
No ball shaver.

Kellye (49:31):
They go all the way down to Hammond to look at the
storage where Joe Egrant.
Iraen said that happened allthe stuff I I did.
I I should I shouldn't missname him on purpose, but I'm not
that much of a bitch.
I I cared about people whosenames are garbage, the poundage
of an assholes, gumbag, piece ofworthless, actual garbage you
are.

(49:51):
But they go down to his house,search through all that stuff,
looking for any kind of evidence.
But, yeah, this has been almosta freaking month, and he
learned better the first timearound, like, let's get rid of
this stuff.
So they're looking foreverything and they don't really
find a a whole lot now.
Yeah.
I have no idea why not.

(50:11):
No clue.
But I wanted some help.
There was nothing they could no.
No.
Nothing at all.
I

Kyler (50:18):
now for your circumstances or

Kellye (50:21):
Okay.
So there were the jurisdictionsof thing.
They're way behind the ball ontrying to find any kind of
anything of evidentiary value.
Joel's mom is heartbroken,wrecked completely.
And there are many articlesabout why he never call.
Why didn't I ever ever called?

(50:43):
Because they had such a goodrelationship.
Because, like, that was one ofthe things I didn't get to
mention in the first episode wasEibrin spent more time with
Joel's mom than he's hit withhis own family because miss
Bates was a a home made girl.
She was a mother.
She wanted, you know, that cuteshe caring loving atmosphere
was always a thing with her inher house.

(51:04):
And he latched onto thatbecause he that's not what he
had at his home.
His home was, you win.
You do your best.
You do you are the best or youare the worst, and you will be
recommended if you were But it'sthe last.
Exactly.
So they go in and they'researching the garage at the
emboldens down there like I said.

(51:24):
And This is another one ofthose quotes from senior.
They were asking them in thearticle why they didn't go to
Joel's funeral or memorialservice.
And his answer was, well, mywife and I would have gone.
I called her mom, but I justwanted to find out some things

(51:45):
and express my sorrow, but thenext daughter, I don't know her
name.
She cursed me out, so we didn'tfeel welcome there.
And then another quote whenthey were talking about the
jurisdiction and why it was kindof being held up.
They quoted a couple ofofficers saying that they felt

(52:06):
pretty sure, pretty certain thatthey were going to move the
jurisdiction to Tennesseebecause they believed that the
murder actually occurred in theapartment in Memphis.
And senior was quoted as sayingthat, you know, he he he fell
short that didn't occur in theMemphis apartment.
He said, quote, I'm almost surethat's a lie.
By Shannon and Ivern being athome at that time, and besides,

(52:31):
the neighbor should have heardsomething.

Kyler (52:33):
All of the faith.
All of the faith never.

Kellye (52:38):
All of the why the hell are you so talking?
Why why are you so talking?
And then it goes June eightynine, July eighty nine, August,
September, October, and thennothing until June of ninety.

(52:59):
That's just to say that there'sno answer.
And it's April of ninety onebefore anything changes with her
murder.
With the investigation,everything comes to us all
because once they figure aroundthat the jurisdiction should be

(53:20):
in Tennessee.
Tennessee looks at it and it'sjust like, you know, there's I
can do with this.
There's I mean, like, we can'tgo anywhere with it.
We literally have next tonothing.
We don't have any evidencebecause he had plenty of time to
clean all of this stuff up.
We know he didn't.
We know it was him.
Obviously, this as a pattern,and and he gets mad.

(53:41):
The woman in his life is goingto leave him, and so he decides
to take it out on the closestfreaking victim, the first time
it was Brenda, this time it wasJoelle.
But we still don't have a wayto prove it and he got better
the second time around.
He realized that he dumped thatbody way too close, so now he's
gotta get it further away.
So where does he go?
Thirty miles down the roadacross the river different state
.

Kyler (54:00):
Next time, there won't be a buddy.

Kellye (54:02):
So at this point, Senior keeps talking to the papers.
Junior doesn't really make anyappearances until a little bit
later into, like, the laternineteen nineties.
But at this point, Ivern moveback to New Orleans Baton Rouge
area street port wherever it was.
And then eventually makes hisway up to of all places, New

(54:25):
Jersey.

Kyler (54:27):
Everything's legal in Jersey?

Kellye (54:28):
Everything's legal.
In Jersey.

Kyler (54:29):
Take care of all those news in our in that region, we
were not riding on Jersey.
It's a quote from Amazon.

Kellye (54:35):
I'm I'm pretty sure most of the people know that.
I don't wanna If you don't getit, then you don't need to be
listened.
So in nineteen ninety one inJune, things that already
started to kind of roll downhillfor Ira at that point, but I'm
not gonna get ahead of myself.
Earlier in the year of ninetyone.
He had been dating a new ladylove, except this one wasn't

(54:59):
like the other one.
So in the other situations, hehad to chase them.
He had to work really hard tokeep the attention to keep them
interested.
Well, this one was wayinterested.
She was giving him all of theattention.
Apparently, that's not exactlywhat he thought he wanted or
maybe he was just this level ofextra that he was not wrong
welcoming because he actuallyfiled for restraining order

(55:22):
against her because he couldn'tget her out the house.
Right.
So by the time he filed thatwas training order and took that
out on her.

Kyler (55:29):
You mean you didn't just kill her?

Kellye (55:31):
No.
We didn't because that was itwas it was a different it was a
different scenario.
If you didn't want her, hedidn't want to possess her or
control her.
He wanted to get the f out.
Like, GTFO, please.
And no.
So she took out a restrainingorder.
Now in the midst of this kindof proceeding, he actually
attempted to apply for aconcealed weapon, like, he

(55:53):
wanted to buy a gun.
What you're laughing for?
He was acquitted.

Kyler (55:58):
I'm dead.

Kellye (55:58):
He doesn't have a felony on his record.
He's it's a perfectlyacceptable friend, dad, or what?
Except it's not.
And good on these New Jerseycops because I'm gonna love them
right now.
I'm gonna hate the attorneys,but I I love the investigators.
That's where I'm going with.
So the investigator that isgoing over this background check

(56:24):
for Ibrance says, scratches hischin awggy nose on his corn cut
pipe.
Right?
That's what I see in my mindwhen he says, and he realizes
that Ira has been in the middlecenter of and indicted, but
acquitted of at least one murder.

Kyler (56:44):
And It's

Kellye (56:44):
the only suspect ever named in the other homicide of
both women, you were veryclosely tied to him.
And he was like, you know what?
I don't think this is a goodidea.
I think this is a bad idea,guys.
He doesn't let allow him to geta permit for a gun or a weapon.
So which was within the legalrights because if you've ever

(57:06):
been indicted for a felony, theycan tell you So you won't have
to actually be convicted,depending on the level of the
felony or what the felony was.
So, especially, a felony andviolence.
Anyway, in the course of thishappening, he gets curious and
he is like, okay.
Well, I wanna talk to this lady.

Kyler (57:24):
I I just wanna talk to her.

Kellye (57:26):
I just wanna not sure.
So they bring her in becausethey well, they had to bring her
in anyway because she broke therestraining order.
She broke back into Ibrancehouse.
So she walked right throughthat restraining honor and but
she didn't put him in hisintensive care.
She showed up.
But, anyway, she just wanted togo get some of her stuff.
And according to her, when shegot to the police station, she

(57:46):
said, no.
No.
No.
You guys have gotten it allwrong.
I try to get my stuff because Iwanna get far away from as
possible because he said hekilled two women and he'll kill
me too if I don't leave himalone.
Wait what?

Kyler (58:00):
What got it.
They don't fucking do somethinglike this.

Kellye (58:03):
What did you?
They do.
They do.
They do sort of.
The investigators do a greatjob.
Okay.
Because at this point, they gotsome really, really cool cards
in their hand.
Right?
Because they've got this openinvestigation into a protective
order for hybrid.
So have it get him down thestation?
Hey.
Do you wanna come talk to usabout that protective order

(58:24):
you've got?
We we try to figure out whatwe're gonna do with her in this
case.
You wanna come

Kyler (58:29):
and come talk to us?
Yeah.
Sure.
No problem.

Kellye (58:33):
So he goes out of the station.
Sam's lawyer just like thefirst time, the dumbass.
And he goes into the station,he gets to talk in Chatton, and
the investigators do what theirframe to do.
They get him at ease.
They put him into a comfortable, hey, we're friends stature.
And by the end of thatinterview, he confesses to to

(58:55):
both.
Why am I infuriated?
Because he cannot be convictedof Brenda's murder because he
has already been acquitted.
Yeah, guys.
You know what I'm you knowwhat's coming?

Kyler (59:08):
Yeah.
We we mentioned this

Kellye (59:09):
one.
Double freaking jeopardy.

Kyler (59:12):
Oh,

Kellye (59:13):
no matter.
So June of nineteen ninety one,he goes in there and he
confesses to both the murder ofBrenda Spiser and of Joel TELUS.

Kyler (59:30):
And yet they still stand around, dicks and hands, nothing
they can do.

Kellye (59:35):
They can do?
They they they they lock themup.
They extradite him from NewJersey to Tennessee.
Actually, I believe they blewup to get him from Tennessee.
Pulled him back down and got inthere.
They guided him on first degreemurder.
Initially, he wasn't gonnafight extradition.

(59:56):
Right?
But then he got an attorney.
And his attorney fought atradition.
And they went from he was herfor his extradition hearing July
twelfth.
And then it was further delayeduntil August when he was

(01:00:18):
finally extradited to TennesseeAugust fifteenth to ninety one.
Now they set a no bond becauseit was first degree murder, a
hundred percent within theirrights.
They got delay after delayafter delay after delay.
Now it went from August ofninety one until March of ninety

(01:00:40):
two.
All of this wrangling.
Right?

Kyler (01:00:45):
And this is after he's already been actually having?

Kellye (01:00:47):
Yep.
This is when he got toTennessee.

Kyler (01:00:49):
So we Oh, it's sixty.
Tennessee.
Has spent eight.
But trying to find a market.

Kellye (01:00:53):
Yeah.
Well, I mean, he's he's been

Kyler (01:00:54):
a jailmaker.

Kellye (01:00:55):
And he's been a jailmaker.
And, like, he's been a jailsince he confessed.

Kyler (01:01:01):
Oh, yeah.

Kellye (01:01:02):
And so that was in New Jersey until August.
So he was in Jersey for twomonths, and then he transferred
him from Jersey to Tennessee inAugust, mid August, and then
they kept him in Jersey I'msorry, in Tennessee from August
of ninety one to March of ninetytwo.

(01:01:22):
And in March of ninety two, itjust randomly in the papers
appears he has taken a plea deal.
Okay.
This is where you're gonna getangry, and I apologize in
advance, but I am right therewith you.

Kyler (01:01:42):
You fucking saying that.

Kellye (01:01:43):
So listen to this.
How many of you know what anAlbert plea is?
If any of you know anythingabout them in this three or any
of those cases that specificallydeal with that.

Kyler (01:01:55):
Right now when you need to.

Kellye (01:01:57):
Oh my god.
I love that one.
Frankly speaking.
Crazy ass.
Story.
But anyway, in Alfred plea andand basically anytime we take a
plea deal, you are basicallywaiving your rights to a trial.
You're waiving your rights toto to the fifth, you know, all
of your basic rights as acriminal, once you get arrested,
and indicted, you no longerhave those rights.

(01:02:20):
Once you take a pleaded, youcan't appeal, you can't, you
know, come back and say, oh, Ithink you've I mean, you could
try, but it's usually nevergonna work because once you make
that deal, you have to say youaccept all of those terms.
So what happened in an Alfredplay, and this is directly from
the US supreme court It's namedafter the North Carolina versus

(01:02:45):
Alford case in nineteen seventy.
And in that case, Henry Alford,he faced first degree murder.
Now.
He could have faced a deathsentence as a capital offense if
the jury got the guilty goodscapital murder.
But there was a lot of solidevidence against him, and he was
convinced by his lawyer to takea plea.

(01:03:05):
And the prosecutor allowed himto lead to second degree murder,
which carried a penalty of twoto thirty instead of the death
penalty.
A lie.
Instead of a death penalty, hepled guilty, but said he was not
guilty.
So he was admitting guilt toavoid the Right.

(01:03:27):
The higher penalty.
So the supreme court held thatThe court could accept a guilty
plea based on a voluntary andintelligent choice even if the
defendant contains continues toclaim innocence.
A lot of judges won't do it.
A lot of judges will say if youdon't say guilty or no contest

(01:03:51):
even.
Because it's a lot like a nocontest, please, except in a no
contest.
You're not specifically sayingyou're innocent, you're just not
gonna try to fight.
You're not gonna try to provethat you're not, which is in and
of itself saying you're guilty.
The the difference in this onein the Memphis three case, they

(01:04:12):
were actually freaking innocentand the opera plea wasn't saving
their face.
It was saving the prosecution'sface.
It's definitely the DA

Kyler (01:04:21):
or ADA.
I can't remember which I knowwhat I remember.

Kellye (01:04:23):
She was a lower I couldn't deal.
So basically, the only way Ican look at an hour play is
somebody is getting a free packpass or away, Aleca.
This is this is this is oursilver platter offer for you.
Right?

(01:04:44):
So Did I mention what he wasdoing in Turkey when he was
arrested?

Kyler (01:04:49):
No.

Kellye (01:04:50):
His current in employment was as a counselor at
her children's home?
He was counseling children.

Kyler (01:05:00):
Okay.
That's a good plan.

Kellye (01:05:03):
Yep.
I asked what he was doing.
They finally get him back infront of a judge.
He And I I wanna know I wannaknow which one of these DA's
decided this was a good freakingidea.
The only like, even slightestremnants of an explanation was a

(01:05:23):
single quote from one of theassisted DAs that said, well,
when we looked at the evidence,we realized that if if we had
anything, it would be closer toa second degree murder.
Okay.
So why didn't you charge him asecond degree murder and take

(01:05:44):
into trial?
No?

Kyler (01:05:45):
This stays better?

Kellye (01:05:46):
No.
No.
You no.
Okay.
So when you led guilty, theactual article itself, basically
did a quick skim because it itwas on the front page, but it
didn't even, like, continue toanother their page.

(01:06:09):
So it covers what happened.
It covers her body.
It covers her she went missingher body was found, and then
then he was eventually in guided, but he could let guilty in an
unscheduled hearing.
The prosecutor said that theevidence evidence against him
didn't support a degree murderconviction, and he said, quote,

(01:06:30):
with all the facts we had, wefelt like it very easily could
be a second degree murder case.
And that's the only freakingthing anyone ever said from the
DA's office.
The second degree murder wouldhave been at least fifteen and
at most twenty five.
Which is different than now.

(01:06:53):
In Louisiana, you get taken toyour murder.
You're going to you're going togo for life, honey.

Kyler (01:06:57):
L walk for a second.

Kellye (01:07:00):
Mhmm.
Really?
Yep.
Man slaughter, which was whathe took the Albert plea to.
Okay.
He was sentenced to ten years.
K?
Ten years.
He's already been in jail sinceApril.
He only has to serve four and ahalf years to be eligible for

(01:07:21):
parole.
That's it.
Four and a half years, of whichhe's already served over a year
and a half by the time he tookthe plea.

Kyler (01:07:32):
He said he's dumb.

Kellye (01:07:33):
Yeah.
I do find a kind of poignant,though, that he was eventually
caught One, because he couldn'tkeep his freaking mouth shut.
Two, because the woman healways wanted, somebody who was
obsessed with him, who wantedhim for ever and only him and
gave him all of their attentionand time and affection

Kyler (01:07:55):
one to the first place.

Kellye (01:07:57):
Was the one who ended up taking him down at least
initially.
So At this point, I'm sureyou're wondering, well, what the
hell happened to Brenda's case?
I know we can't do doublejeopardy, but did any or

Kyler (01:08:14):
at a young dancing.

Kellye (01:08:16):
So here's what had happened.
He takes that plea,

Kyler (01:08:18):
you know

Kellye (01:08:19):
or I'm sorry, not August .
He takes the man slaughter plea, and that would be in so that
was March of ninety two.
He took the operative plea.
Ten years, four and a halfyears to be eligible for
probation.
No idea why they made this dealwith him.
No clue.

Kyler (01:08:40):
I haven't told you.

Kellye (01:08:43):
So Louisiana as a whole is pissed.
Because not only did she getaway with murdering Brenda at
age eighteen was so much of herlife ahead of her for doing
nothing but existing, really.
There is a state of what can wedo, what HOW CAN WE MAKE THIS

(01:09:08):
FASTERED PAY FOR WHAT HE'S DONE?
LIKE HE NEED JUSTICE.
THE FAMILY NEEDS JUSTICE.
MARGIA WELL and Brenda bothneed justice because this four
and a half year shit is isridiculous.

Kyler (01:09:20):
For birds.

Kellye (01:09:21):
So they start digging and they start looking And I'm
sure they had roomfuls of peoplebrainstorming, trying to figure
out what they could do becausenow they're looking at this
confession little word for word.
I've actually published it inApril of ninety one.

(01:09:42):
When he gave his confession,the initial confession was in
April.
And the the the quote that theyput in the paper said the
question was because he justasked it kind of out of nowhere
to kind of bring her up.
And he said, what were thecircumstances surrounding the
death of missus Biker?
Ira says, I went I asked her tocome, like, we we had a storage

(01:10:08):
unit, and I asked to come therewith me.
And then I was trying to talkto her, you know, I had been
asking her and asking her to,you know, try to give me some
time with your will and she just, you know, she just kept saying
that she was gonna be with youalone no matter what.
And so I just I I got mad withher and I strangled her.
Then the investigator asked him, he said, and where did this
take take place at?
In storage area?

(01:10:29):
He said, yeah.
And he said, Where was thatstorage area located?
Not far from the College Campusin Monroe, Louisiana.
He said, okay.
Well, after you strangled, orwhat'd you do?
I took her body back to thecampus and put her in the
dumpster and went back to thegame or or I went back to the

(01:10:49):
dorm or something.
I don't remember to exactlywhat they had assumed happened.
It actually happened.
Mhmm.

Kyler (01:10:58):
Imagine that

Kellye (01:10:59):
he took Brenda.
The gap station owner that sawthe tall black man, little white
woman standing outside of thestorage area, right outside of
the freaking area where thelocker known to the Ibrance was,
watch them go into that one.
I mean, like, the guyidentified it was a storage
locker number one zero three.
And that was the one thatbelonged to Ibrance.

(01:11:19):
That was the one he saw theblack man and white woman go
into and the white woman henever saw come out.
But in fairness, he never sawthe black man come either,
although he did seat the doorclosed later in the car gone.
Same one.
Now they have an actualconfession they know it was him.
They didn't know what to do.
So they work on it.
March third of ninety two whenhe finally pleads guilty because

(01:11:43):
from the time that he confesses, Louisiana has got there

Kyler (01:11:48):
They've been pissed for a couple of years now, so they
they

Kellye (01:11:50):
Everybody Who was anybody especially Joelle's
family at this point?
Because Joelle's mom nowknowing what she knows is is
understandably

Kyler (01:12:03):
Yeah.
Devastated.

Kellye (01:12:04):
Completely.
There's no other there are I'mhaving trouble finding a word to
put into this because I can'timagine that amount of just

Kyler (01:12:12):
sign of the

Kellye (01:12:14):
Just The entire earth crushing weight that falls on
you when something like thatcomes out.
Like, I vouch for you.
I told people you were there.
I thought you weren't there.
You were you were being playedthe entire time there.
You were used and your daughterwas used and then your daughter

(01:12:37):
was used and then thrown awayon the side of the road like a
piece of garbage because that'show he sees women.

Kyler (01:12:43):
Or possibly just people in general?

Kellye (01:12:45):
He pleads guilty.

Kyler (01:12:46):
Got it.
Possibly.
He's just a sociopath.

Kellye (01:12:48):
On March tenth.
Okay.
Ten, twelve days later.
Louisiana, they filed anindictment on mister Ivan for
what?

Kyler (01:12:56):
Whatever this came.

Kellye (01:12:58):
What is that?
So February twenty eighth, heplease steal team, or he takes
an out for a plane to manslaughter, Mark March tenth, the
district attorney, Jerry Jones,in Washington Parrish.
Surgery?
Files in half of David for anarrest warrant with the parish
judge or perjury.

(01:13:19):
Sorry.

Kyler (01:13:20):
It took me a minute to get there.

Kellye (01:13:22):
Yeah.
So I know a lot of you are likescratching your heads.
We're gonna get there.
Promise.
Sorry.
That was miss Ki Bin.

Kyler (01:13:31):
Because he was acquitted by saying the entire time he was
not guilty in a case that hewas guilty in.

Kellye (01:13:36):
Fucking genius.
Yes.
Hang on.
Fucking genius.
Not just that.
Because perjury is a veryspecific statute.
Again, another one of thosedefinitions I looked up because

Kyler (01:13:45):
Making false statements are on while on on the roads.
There's nothing It's

Kellye (01:13:50):
it's very specific.
Let me let me read it to you inin full.
Okay?
I don't know.
This is getting long winded.
I'm trying to do my best.
Surgery is the intentionalmaking of a false written or
oral statement in or for use ina judicial proceeding or any
proceeding before a board orofficial, wherein said official

(01:14:12):
or board is authorized to taketestimony.
In order to constitute perjury,the false statement must be
made under sanction of an oathor an equivalent affirmation.
And how many ants we got?
And must relate to mattermaterial to the issue or

(01:14:33):
questioning controversy.
So in layman serves, You haveto be under oath.
In front of an official, it hasto be done according to the
matter subject matter at hand,and it has to be very specific

(01:14:56):
in perjury, in that specificquestion of controversy.
So specifically about themurder, specifically stated oral
or written, but in his case, itwas oral.
He was before a judge underoath.
In front of during a proceedingin which the only matter in

(01:15:17):
which that they're talking about, he purged himself was the
direct matter where he said, Idid not strangle Brenda.
I did not kill her.
I did not do those things.
And he may have done himselffavors in the nineteen eighty
eight trial when he took this inin his own defense.
Because everything lookedpretty thin.

(01:15:38):
But now Yeah.
They've come back and said,well, now that you've confessed
to this, we know that you werelying on the stand under oath in
front of a judge, you're busted.
Now, here's a shitty part.
No.
The maximum sentence forperjury, the highest that you
can punish anyone for forcommitting perjury is ten years.

(01:16:02):
That's it.
So By the time, they get himdown there in September because
they fight the hell out of thatextradition too.
September of ninety two, heplease is not guilty.
They delay that trial all theway until nineteen ninety five.

(01:16:32):
Five oh, well okay.
So September of ninety two toJanuary of ninety five.

Kyler (01:16:40):
No.
That's all.

Kellye (01:16:41):
So is still two and a half years ish to get him to the
end of that one.
They changed the venue.
They had multiple motions.
And when I say they they wentthrough the double jeopardy
motions, they went all the wayup to the Supreme Court with
like six different rits tryingto get shit thrown out, trying

(01:17:02):
to get dismissals, trying to doall of that.
They actually went into thisspecific it's called collateral
as Stoppel, and it's spelled e st o p p e l lateral, a Stoppel.
I had to Google this one.
I've heard it before, neverreally look into it that hard,

(01:17:23):
but where double jeopardyprotects you from being tried
multiple times for the samecrime, collateral Apple prevents
the re litigation of specificissues that has already been
decided in a pre in previouslegal proceeding.
So basically, what they'resaying is

Kyler (01:17:41):
Just because it's not the same exact crime.
He's still being charged withsomething from that crime.

Kellye (01:17:45):
Right.
But the judge has alreadydecided was either true or not
true.
It was either right or wrong.
Could not.
You can't say now that thatstatement isn't legitimate
because when the jury found outin innocent or they acquitted
him, they say that because thatacquittal was the same as saying
his testimony was true.

(01:18:06):
Now the big problem with thatis that the jury didn't find him
in a sense.
Oh, Okay?
So here we go again with theselegalese.
The jury found him not guiltybecause the weight of the
evidence was not beyond areasonable doubt.

(01:18:27):
Not specifically ruling thathis testimony was true and
factual.
What they rendered was averdict saying, you did not
prove your case beyond areasonable doubt based on what
we have before us.
Not rendering a decisionspecifically on the issue of

(01:18:54):
whether or not he was beingtruthful.
So in that way and then thenwhen I tell you that this got so
many twisted ways to Sunday, Myeye started crossing at about
the third, fourth, fifth.
By the time I actually got tothe appeal to the Supreme Court
and I was reading all of thedifferent accents because they

(01:19:15):
have, I believe, it's five, andthen they had three and two
split for the appeal, but it wasupheld.
But it was just they they founda lot this is a very heavily
debated subject because Somefeel like it should have been
covered.
Some feel like they are openingdoors for legal wranglings

(01:19:36):
later on down the line.
But The discussion the majorpart of the discussion that I
found interesting was that onthe one hand, there's the
concern that allowing theacquittal to insulate the
defendant from perjury.
So basically saying that ifthey're acquitted, that means
you can't come back and commit.
You can't say that they'regoing they can't ever perjure

(01:19:58):
themselves because they wereacquitted.
They're afraid that that wouldgive future defendants an
uncontrollable license totestify awdry with a resulting
nothing to the reliability ofevidence.
So, like, if something comesback up later, and proves you
wrong, you can't get in troubleforever.
So you can just lie as much asyou want on the stand.

(01:20:19):
Right?
But then you go across to theother hands, there's
apprehension that allowing aprosecution to charge for
perjury that gives the statelike a second shot at the
defendant for the same wrong andallow over overzealous
prosecutors in the future to useperjury to retry issues that

(01:20:39):
were already to terms in theequivalent.
So in this case specifically,though, the thank god one of
these foreign authoritiesfinally did rights by the
victims in this scenario becauseThey finally did the shit they

(01:21:01):
needed to do.
They were prepared.
They laid this out in the mostperfect fashion without touching
anything else.
They got they they worked theirasses off, very diligent, very
thorough.
They had a, you know, an answeror bundle, a reasoning, legal
reasoning, and and convincingarguments for everything that

(01:21:22):
they presented in that burgurysituation.
Okay.
And they they they they battledfor this.
And so when this he got to theappeal because he was found
guilty of perjury in March ofninety five.
And when they finally got tothe appeal up at the supreme

(01:21:45):
court.
We're not just talking aboutthe circuit court.
We're in the supreme court atthis point.
They said it is clear the stateis not attempting to rehash or
refine the evidence used in thefirst trial in order to take a
second shot.
Rather, the state in good faithhas obtained new and additional

(01:22:06):
evidence that was notpreviously available.
And that indicates that thedefendant defendant testified
falsely under oath during theformer trial.
Now

Kyler (01:22:18):
Why is this why is new and additional why is that
important?

Kellye (01:22:23):
Because in so much as to say that because of the
advancements in science, theyhave the ability to confirm the
DNA.
They have the ability topresent evidence that was there

(01:22:43):
for the first trial, but notable to be used.

Kyler (01:22:50):
Okay.
So

Kellye (01:22:50):
As evident because of the statement that he gave, they
can now corroborate thatagainst the evidence that they
already had.

Kyler (01:22:58):
So they both gotten entirely new evidence and
they're able to use theirevidence that they already had
in a new fashion or they wereable to expound on it or it it
became additional evidence inEnglish.

Kellye (01:23:07):
Because they had something to hold it up against
and say, look, this is what hetestified this is what he
confessed to, and this is whatproves it.

Kyler (01:23:14):
Right.

Kellye (01:23:15):
This is how we know that his confession is legitimate.
And it was nice

Kyler (01:23:20):
and bullshit.

Kellye (01:23:21):
When I say that they had to tow that line,

Kyler (01:23:23):
I was so

Kellye (01:23:24):
behind me because they couldn't introduce anything that
could call into question thethe acquittal.
They can ultimately bring intoquestion his perjury, So when it
came to talking about theevidence that because they
presented pictures, they did allabout with the and everything,

(01:23:45):
but they had to be very, verycareful.

Kyler (01:23:48):
He said this.
This is why this is alive, butI'm not talking about this.
Right.

Kellye (01:23:52):
You're not talking about his guilt as a whole.
You're talking about thestatement that he made about
what he did or did not do.
And I'm telling you they worksome oh my gosh.

Kyler (01:24:05):
No.
But you No.
We shouldn't.
No.
They won't.
Lose that one.

Kellye (01:24:07):
This was the van gogh of perjury case.
Oh, my god.
Like, the trial that this was,I wish I was there.

Kyler (01:24:14):
Like, you and you know that there's no way Louisiana
was gonna lose that one.
You know what they had to do?
You know what they told you?

Kellye (01:24:19):
They changed judges.
They changed juries twice.
I'm pretty sure.
Like,

Kyler (01:24:22):
we gonna give this one.
You all you may you may justlook bad.

Kellye (01:24:26):
And I think it might look bad, but she literally took
the heart out of the especiallyin Northeast Louisiana at the
time.
He took a daggers, stuck itright into their heart, twisted
around a couple of times, andthen dragged it across the state
.
Like, it it was all fullbecause

Kyler (01:24:43):
of the woman There's a repeat on it.

Kellye (01:24:45):
Right.
And, I mean, if it had not beenfor a literally what it this
comes out to you is one dude.
One dude up in New Jersey thatdidn't like the way

Kyler (01:24:57):
I like cut a year gym boy .

Kellye (01:24:59):
That's well, then I'll talk about that in Jersey.

Kyler (01:25:01):
Damn.
I love that for the same.

Kellye (01:25:04):
But something fell off to him.
He hadn't just convicted.
He had a an arrest.
He had an indictment, but therewas something that didn't sit
right with this man.
And thank the ever love andgoodness that it didn't.
And I have pictures that I willpost because I'm done, guys.

(01:25:24):
I'm not talking anymore.
I'm over it.

Kyler (01:25:26):
And she started to smell my skating.

Kellye (01:25:28):
And it's late, and I'm tired and I saw it to edit and
get this released.
But my point is, I will havepictures that came out of Fran
Parker who's unfortunatelydeceased now, but she the novel
that she wrote the deadlyTriangle, And my plan for my
copy of the deadly triangle isto give it away.

(01:25:51):
I just feel like if you want toknow more or if you want to
read the deadly triangle, let meknow.
I would be more than happy forthis to be something that is
like, hey, this is Simalo's copy, pass it around to everybody
who wants to read more about it.
Also, maybe we can share in ourfrustrations about this

Kyler (01:26:08):
as you have tax on also bring some bring bring along a
South Louisiana translator foryourself.

Kellye (01:26:13):
Oh, no.
It's not even that.
We're not that bad down here.
I promise.
I'm not even actually from hereon.

Kyler (01:26:18):
I was more sick.
Digital Eastern Northern.
Digital Northern

Kellye (01:26:21):
White similar.
She's he's from up here too.

Kyler (01:26:25):
She talked about she not.

Kellye (01:26:26):
Anyway, so that's that.
I I if you are interested inyou want to read the book, which
you don't wanna spend in any ofthe extra money, and it was
actually kind of able to find.
There's really so many problems.

Kyler (01:26:37):
South Louisiana still though you

Kellye (01:26:38):
Yeah.
But you

Kyler (01:26:39):
hard to understand sometimes.

Kellye (01:26:40):
So If you're interested, let me know.
Give me an address, PO Box,whatever.
I will mail that out to youalong with a couple of little
goodies.
That would be great.
And if just if you want to readthat and you can do it on my
email, you can do it on myTikTok, whatever.
However, I'll post it all overthe place along with some of our

(01:27:02):
cool new gear that we've gotfor our patreons that we just
buy.
I see.
I'm excited.
Super excited.
And we should have hats and Oh.
What's the other one?
The coosings?
I don't remember.
Yeah.
They're in they're they're inthe they're in the the process.
All didn't.
Right.

Kyler (01:27:20):
A white hat.

Kellye (01:27:20):
Now I can't keep look, I have to do the backwards for
you because I can't give you awhite hat.
It's never gonna work.

Kyler (01:27:26):
Oh, yeah.
No.

Kellye (01:27:27):
Yeah.
No.
So long story short, and thisis the part that I'm gonna leave
you guys with because it sucksreal real bad.
He was convicted of part jury.
He was given ten yearsconsecutive to the ten years
from Jersey, but four and a halfyears with good time and the
statute does not allow for it tobe served without benefit.

(01:27:47):
So basically, as much as thejudge wanted to, he couldn't say
hard time, straight time.
So unsure when Ivan Boltonjunior was released, but he was
released.
Not only was she released, buthe as of yesterday, the last

(01:28:08):
time I checked, I didn't see noobituary.
So he is still alive.
And not only is he alive, butas of May twenty ninth two
thousand eleven, He has marrieda missus Marshall, Shentel,
Smith, Barnes, now, Bolton.

Kyler (01:28:30):
So what we what we can is extrapolating this is that you
are full of bad decisions.
This is another one.

Kellye (01:28:35):
This is another really.
Like, she made it out of atleast two other ones.
Maybe she'll make it out ofthis one.
The part that blows my mind,and this will never cease to
amaze me.
This man has been convicted offor sure, he has been convicted
of one murder.
The second one he was acquittedof, but later purgered himself.

(01:28:57):
So keep pur his perjuryconviction skinned from the fact
that he lied about murdering awoman.
Strang manually strangling.

Kyler (01:29:07):
Both of them.

Kellye (01:29:08):
Two women, one of which he was in a relationship ship
was for six years, strangledthem to death.
The life he watched the lifefade from then.

Kyler (01:29:21):
But watched and felt.

Kellye (01:29:23):
And who knows what he did to Brenda while she was
alive and I don't want to knowwhat he did at her after she was
dead.
And Joel in the same fashion,like, I I I'm glad we don't know
.
But what kind of woman looks athim and he's like, you know
what?
I think this is a good idea.
This is a great plan.

Kyler (01:29:43):
Hey, you got enough money .
Dude, that shouldn't still bewalking?
I well, hey.
I I can't.
Alright.
Get it.

Kellye (01:29:51):
I will never understand.
But this is also the reason whyI said earlier that, like, he's
probably if he's anything, he'smore five than gay because he
eventually did get married.
But then again, he may havejust been using that the cover.
I don't know.
What I do know though

Kyler (01:30:05):
is his parents would have disowned him.
Still toxic.
Absolutely.
Yes.
And he can't he can't survivewithout them.

Kellye (01:30:11):
That's a fact.
But also, none of this shit isright.
No.
They failed.
The college failed.
Her teammates and her coach.
As as good as they could havebeen, they failed Brenda.
They did not do right by her tosave the face of themselves.

(01:30:37):
Is that and I think in the inthe times that we are in now, I
don't feel like that same thingwould happen.
I feel like there's at leastone to two people in every group
of people regardless of howmuch money you have, regardless
of how much fame you have,regardless of how much damage it
might do to whoever's orwhatever's reputation, I feel

(01:30:57):
like there's at least one or twothat would stand up for the
right thing, that would saysomething, that would do
something.
And I feel like it may havebeen different had it happened
now.
My conscious would not allowfor me to know that I could have
made a difference or thepossibility that I could have
made a difference?

(01:31:17):
Not a distinguishing factor.
I wouldn't be able to live withmyself, and that in and of
itself is enough reason for mebecause I have to be okay with
myself at the end of the daybecause I fuck anybody else's
opinion.
If I can't sleep or live withmyself.
If I can't close my eyes atnight and know that I've done
everything that I possibly canto be the best human I can be

(01:31:39):
that gonna bother me.
It might not bother some people.
We call those sociopaths, butbut it does me.
And that's what would be thedetermining factor for me.
It would be an easy decision.
Fuck all that.
I mean, it would not be hardfor me to be to to come board to
be that person.
And I know there were a fewthat dropped like the witnesses

(01:32:00):
that came forward, the peoplewho tried to say, no, he wasn't
there.
I know he wasn't there, butthey had too many people who
were willing to say otherwise,to try to cover it up, to try to
make it seem not like it was,to try to make the entire team
wear dresses and look morefeminine, so they didn't look
like a bunch of yeah.
So justice was not

Kyler (01:32:21):
No.
You just ran

Kellye (01:32:22):
not given.
Justin was not

Kyler (01:32:24):
Which is it?

Kellye (01:32:25):
There is no finality to this for me.
He's still alive.
He's still out there living.
He's still and he's stillallowed to enjoy the the danger
of things

Kyler (01:32:37):
of life

Kellye (01:32:38):
and grow old and get to get married and get to enjoy

Kyler (01:32:42):
Not being strangled.

Kellye (01:32:44):
Oh, being locked.
And being free and being ableto experience and grow and laugh
and whatever the hell he wantsto do and hopefully not hurt her
again.

Kyler (01:32:54):
Yeah.

Kellye (01:32:54):
But Fully capable.
He's not aged out yet.

Kyler (01:32:56):
I'm just saying, most people have possession of aged
out.

Kellye (01:33:00):
Not true.
He's not even sixty.

Kyler (01:33:02):
No.
I don't know.
I just know.
Yeah.
He act like he's supposed to beold dirt, but then you look
like he bought strong his seal.

Kellye (01:33:11):
Yeah.
So this is about we are overtwo hours of full time right now
, Kayla.
So I apologize, and I love you.
How are you?
I knew this was gonna be hecticand it was gonna be a lot
because I there was just somefreaking lunch.
And if you wanna talk or if youwanna read the book, let me
know.

(01:33:31):
I will get it to you here.
Look forward to that packagecoming in soon.
I just found the freaking spotwhere it gives me your address
on there I don't even need youto write me back.
I got it.
Boom.
So I was sitting out shortly.
I might even be able to get itout tomorrow.
Honestly, I've I've go to work,and if the post office guy
comes to my office, I'd be ableto do that.

(01:33:51):
Anybody else?
You can go to our website, gotlinks for everything.
The TikTok, the YouTube, thePatreon, the Twitter slash x.
I've got episode blogs that hasextra little tidbits and
pictures.
Not the full scope of what Iput on the Patreon, because the
Patreon gets literallyeverything.
And in some, I'm going to Ikeep up with it a little bit

(01:34:15):
more consistently now becauseI've been keeping up with the
more widely open and free socialpostings and things because
that's where everybody's at.
And I'm going to continue to dothat, but I also am gonna keep
more consistent track on thePatreon as well.
So Thank you so much forlistening.
Thank you for sticking with usthrough this, and we are going

(01:34:39):
to take next week off.
And then we'll come backnormally schedule programming.
And as of right now, I don'tthink I have any more specific
listener suggestions.
So, send those in.
Give me your I got two weeks.
You know what I can do in twoweeks?

(01:34:59):
I can make a whole murder board.
Twice.
Thank you guys so much.
You're amazing and awesome.
And I appreciate the support,and I appreciate you guys
listening.
I have every other week orevery week depending and sharing
and liking and following.
And if we get enoughsubscribers on my YouTube or on

(01:35:23):
our YouTube channel for thecinema podcast.
I can actually start live showsor live casting when we do the
podcast recordings sometime inthe future.
We can stream live and interactand talk to you guys and do
stuff like that, which I thinkwould be really freaking bright,
especially in cases like thiswhen you so much two eggs.

(01:35:46):
And I've got a couple othercases that are like that that I
think would be really excellentfor a live show.
So I would be a thousandmillion percent down for that.
So keep listening, keep sharing, keep oh, oh, we had more
reviews too, but I'll cover thaton our bonus episode later on
Apple Podcasts.
So thank you guys for that.

(01:36:07):
I appreciate every single oneof them.
I think we're up to ten wholepreviews now.
Appreciate you guys.
Make sure you check us out onGoodpods, Apple Podcasts,
Spotify, anywhere you can thepodcast and like us, share us,
tell your friends about us, andcome back and listen to us later
.
Thank you so much foreverything, guys.

(01:36:29):
You're awesome and stay someawesome and stay safe out there.

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Beneath the Victory Cheers - The Case of Ivrin Bolden, Jr. Case - 2/2

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Beneath the Victory Cheers - The Case of Ivrin Bolden, Jr. Case - 2/2