September 24, 2024 • 51 mins
What if you could find hope and resilience in the darkest of times? In this profoundly moving episode, we honor the life of Connie Yvette Smith, a young woman whose tragic death left an indelible mark on her family. Join us as we connect with Connie’s older brother, Bradley Smith, who takes us through his journey of grief, healing, and transformation. With a rich background in psychology, Bradley shares his heartfelt story, exploring how his sister's untimely death shaped his career and life path.
Bradley offers a vivid recount of the night Connie was murdered by their neighbor, Bryan Brown. He brings us into the chilling moments that shattered their family's sense of security, providing raw and emotional insights into the immediate and lasting impact of that horrific event. Through his narration, we gain a deep understanding of the bond he shared with his sister, the emotional toll of the subsequent trial, and the protective measures taken during his church mission amidst danger from an escaped convict. It's a testament to the enduring strength of familial love and the haunting weight of last words.
Our conversation with Bradley also dives into the valuable lessons learned from such a profound tragedy. He discusses the heightened awareness and lifestyle changes that followed, stressing the importance of vigilance and safety. We explore the complexities of grief and the powerful journey towards forgiveness and healing. Bradley’s anecdotes about Connie and the transformative love of new beginnings provide a beacon of hope, ensuring her memory lives on and continues to inspire others. Tune in for a story that reminds us all to trust our instincts and cherish those we've lost.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hey guys, and welcome to this very special bonus
episode of Sin Law.
I'm Kelly and today I'm goingto be taking you into a very
different from our otherepisodes.
Setting here, we're going tostep into something heavy and
(00:31):
into the shadows of a momentthat we've already explored.
You might recall from episode31, the Connie Yvette Smith
story, where I shared her storyof how she was tragically
murdered at age 17 in her ownhome by a neighbor that was
(00:57):
obsessed with her and couldn'ttake no for an answer.
His name was Brian Brown, buthe is not the focus of our
stories today, not by any means.
Our focus today is on Connieherself and on the family that
she left behind.
Last week I got a fan mailthrough Buzzsprout, my hosting
(01:21):
website, and it was actuallyfrom and if you haven't listened
to episode 31, stop right now,go back, go listen to that and
then come back here.
Okay, thank you.
So now that you've listened toepisode 31, I initially thought
(01:42):
it was the brother, just becauseit didn't make a whole lot of
sense.
It didn't add up, there were alot of things that didn't
connect and my true crime mindsaid well, it's kind of fishy,
but it didn't come across in thenews articles and things that I
(02:07):
was reading, how close in ageand how close in heart they were
to each other.
Her older brother's name wasBrad Brad Smith, bradley Smith,
and he was about to be 19.
Smith and he was about to be 19.
(02:32):
He was just shy of 19 when hissister was taken from him.
And, lo and behold, last week Iget a fan mail from Mr Bradley
Smith Smith and after I came outof my gripping and frozen shock
, we had a conversation, or afew conversations over a period
(03:00):
of time, and he agreed to talkwith me and tell me about that
night and about his life sinceand all of those things.
So I got the privilege and thehonor to speak with mr bradley
smith and you know we've been incontact off and on before and
after that, um, just discussingdifferent things, and come to
find out, like my mom, we see,and connie, like I told everyone
(03:21):
in the episode and at the inepisode 31, that they knew each
other, but also, I believe now,like they all had some inter
mingling at some point oranother.
Anyway, very interesting, very,very small world, I guess.
(03:44):
However, he reached out to me,we spoke, he agreed to speak
with me.
He allowed me to record it andI'm not going to do a whole lot
this episode.
I'm going to let him speakbecause I feel like this is
something that needs to bespoken and needs to be heard,
especially from the viewpointand from the words and the mouth
(04:06):
and the emotion of someone whowas there, because at the very
end you'll see and you'll hearthis more than once Connie does
not need to be forgotten.
Her story does not need to beforgotten.
What happened that night shouldnever be forgotten by anyone.
So if you take nothing elseaway from this, take that to
(04:31):
heart, listen to her story,don't forget it.
Pass it on to someone who mayneed that, who may need to hear
this to be able to be safer, tolive longer, to be happier and
just to remember, to rememberConnie.
(04:58):
So, before we take the steps offof the into the abyss here, I
got again the honor of speakingwith Mr Brad and he is
delightful and a wonderfullywell-articulated storyteller,
(05:23):
well articulated storyteller andvery well spoken, very
articulate.
I can't say enough good thingsabout him and, from everything
that I've gathered and from whatyou'll hear yourselves, there
are situations and events in ourlives that either change us for
(05:45):
the better or changes for theworse.
And you would think that havingsomething this traumatic and
this, something this awful andthen just so egregiously
unnecessary happened to you soyoung in life that it would
forever have an effect on you.
And I think that not justBradley himself, but his, their
(06:08):
entire family needs to be thethe gold uh, gold standard for
what you can do in spite ofgreat loss and great tragedy,
and that it is possible to goforward and to to be productive
and to be, you know,contributing member of society,
(06:31):
as it were.
So I'm going to stop rambling.
I will now introduce you toBradley Smith.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Yes, do you know?
I had.
I was laughing at myselfearlier when you, when you said
something about recording upthat.
Oh my gosh, I'm so hickish.
I believe that I'm educated.
I go, really.
I do have a couple of degrees.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
A couple degrees is modest.
He has a bachelor's and amaster's in psychology.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Life takes, you know, interesting turns.
I went on my church mission andI came back, finished some time
over at LC and then transferredover to Southern Miss and
finished my master's.
During that time I got marriedand had a kid.
As a matter of fact, my ex-wifeand I we were very good friends
(07:19):
still.
She and I graduated together.
She had a master's inspeech-language pathology and a
master's in counselingpsychology.
I came back to work in the 80sto do an internship and worked
about a year and a half and Ihad an opportunity to work at
(07:40):
one place that I swore I wouldnever work, and it was a prison.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Yeah, you heard that right.
One place that I swore I wouldnever work, and it was a prison.
Yeah, you heard that right.
He grew up, went to school, gota master's and decided to work
in a prison, A federal prison.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Federal facility.
I was given a couple of years.
A couple of years turned into25 years, did a lot of
interesting things there, met alot of interesting people.
You know I actually did sometime over at Pollock, that
federal complex.
But what I did over there, Iwas on the crisis negotiation
team for about 25 years.
(08:17):
I was 23 years on there.
So I did, you know, mypsychology job, did the crisis
initiation, so it was a goodexperience.
It was a wide variety of things, made a lot of great friends
and now I'm actually workingagain after we've retired and
all got old.
(08:37):
I've been wanting to connectwith these guys over the years
but I've been raising grandkidsand being single and doing that.
You don't always have enough toget out.
I'm going to go back to workwith these characters that I
used to work with.
It's been great.
One of the beautiful thingsabout the people I work with at
least the majority of them isthey were true to their
(09:00):
character.
We met when we were in our 20s.
They were true to theircharacter.
We met when we were in our 20s.
We're 60-ish and older and weall seem to be the same as we
were in our 20s.
It was just a testimony to methat they were just genuinely
who they were, because they'renot having to act now Sincere,
hardworking, honest people whodo the best they can in a job
(09:25):
that a lot of people would neverwant to do.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
And if there could ever be a definition that would
fit Bradley Smith more perfectly, it would be exactly how he
just described his co-workersthat he came out of retirement
to work with again.
His job now is a little bitdifferent compared to what he
used to do when he first started.
Now he works for ICE, theimmigration network, and he
(09:53):
basically flies as a securitypersonnel on these flights back
and forth, transferringimmigrants back to or from their
destination or their homecountry.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
There's nothing extravagant or, you know, really
glamorous, because you go there, you bring the inmates or
detainees over to the governmentthere and they deal with them,
and periodically we stayovernight, like in Peru, brazil
or someplace like that.
Stay overnight, like in Peru,brazil or someplace like that.
I always have to rest.
We get there, we get to spendthe evenings hanging out, eating
(10:28):
, buying things to bring back.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
All in all, you would almost never suspect that this
casually jovial sounding man hadbeen through something so
heart-wrenching.
And as he discusses the familydynamics, you'll start to hear a
change, subtle but present, andprobably because we have
already heard this story of whatactually happens or the
rendition of it that was givento the newspapers.
So you can understand whyspeaking about the family and
(11:07):
the dynamics from the past couldstart to affect the way he
tells the story.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
My dad was a very, very hardworking fellow.
He did his 20 years with themilitary for 23 years at
Alexandria Senior High.
Laying around was just not anoption.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
And that didn't stop with his dad, his mother or his
three brothers or himself.
All of the members of thisfamily went on to be productive,
well-rounded humans, and onehas to wonder how that is
possible after you hear thestory that Brad is now going to
(11:49):
tell.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
What's interesting about you know?
I'll speak about myself.
You know, in this case, herethat Friday before I went to I
was still at LC.
I went to my classes, I went to.
We were church custodians atour church when it was over on
Bayou Rapides.
I went in that day to clean andbuff and mop some floors and
(12:10):
get set up for Sunday.
I had a date that night andthen I dropped her off at my
lovely car and went back to work.
I worked at the church thatnight until about 2.30.
We could work at any hour overat the church.
(12:31):
I could go to class and dowhatever, then go back and work
as long as the place was readyfor meetings whenever they were
scheduled.
That's what I had done.
I had picked up the play about6 o'clock.
Oh no, let me back up.
It was another thing.
Went to college, went to schoolthat day, went to work and then
(12:53):
about 5 that evening on thatFriday I had my last meeting
with our congregation bishop tofinalize the paperwork for my
mission church missions.
That was the night that wefinalized and everything and was
ready to go the paperwork andthey sent it into Salt Lake City
(13:13):
to the church headquarters andthen I would get my mission call
.
It was about three weeks laterthat I got my call to Sicily,
you know, completed thepaperwork went and picked up.
We went on.
Our date took her back, had arule 11 o'clock it was as late
as we needed to be out.
The date was away and I wentback to work.
(13:36):
Like I said, I left about 2.30that morning.
I got home just before 3,probably 5 to three.
Mom and Daddy's house is asplit-level home.
We still own it.
It's on the market but it's asplit-level home.
I came in through I had abedroom door that went outside
(14:00):
so I would park and I camethrough my door into the house.
And you know, back then wedidn't lock doors.
Nobody did.
Nobody locked them.
So I came through my door.
I had a bathroom downstairs andI was standing there brushing
my teeth and washing my face andhoney came in about 10 minutes
later, so five minutes afterthree.
(14:23):
I was very protective of her andshe started to tell me about
her evening.
She was all excited and Ifussed at her.
To be honest, I fussed at herbecause she didn't want to tell
me.
So she stopped talking While wewere talking.
I do remember this extremelywell and, like I said, this
(14:45):
stuff is so burned into memorythat I have no doubt that I'm
not mistaken about any detailthat I can take.
I'll tell you if I'm not realclear on something.
We had several cats, two in thehouse.
One was a cat, cat Smokey.
The downstairs stairs that wentto the center level of my home
(15:08):
were concrete.
I didn't hear anything in there.
The stairs going up to whereConnie's bedroom, my brother's
bedroom and my parents' bedroomwas at were wooden and you could
hear the cats running up anddown the stairs.
That's all these steps.
Connie and I were talking downat my bathroom and during that
(15:29):
time I heard what I thought wasthe cats up the stairs.
It was not.
It was Brian who had beenhiding in the center level of
the home in the dark in ourliving room, creeping up the
stairs.
When he heard me talking, to metalking, he went and hid in her
closet and again I didn't thinkanything about it.
(15:50):
She goes on upstairs.
I go into the kitchen, I made abowl of raisin bread, I went
back downstairs and I ate in mybedroom.
This happened pretty quickly.
I mean, it wasn't a big one.
I was hungry, ate somethingreal quick.
Laid back.
I remember laying back on mybed with my legs hanging off.
I was wearing a pair of runningshorts.
(16:12):
I'll tell you these detailsbecause they actually bring them
up to court.
They show pictures.
I was in good shape, I wasathletic, it still worked out.
I was 19.
I was short of be 19.
Laid back on the bed and Iheard scream.
Now I don't do horror movies avery legitimate reason for not
(16:36):
doing it.
Ptsd was until a couple yearslater.
But the scream was a screamthat.
It was a shrill scream, so loud, so intense, so piercing.
It was like she was in the roomwith me, even though she was in
flight stairs to the upperlevel.
And I heard something my momwould say something about blood.
(16:58):
Well, connie had chronic bloodynoses.
They could be severe.
So I thought, scream, what thedevil.
So I ran up my flight of stairs.
The hall light was on.
The hall light was on and as Icame up those stairs I got to
the top stairs and Brian Browncrossed right in front of me.
(17:20):
I mean, within a foot I couldhave reached out.
Pants were open in the front.
He was holding them with hisleft hand.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
So I did interrupt him at this point.
I had to ask if he hadimmediately recognized Brian
Brown or if he had some kind ofconcealing mask or anything of
the sort, because this was thepart of the story that didn't
make any sense to me, becausethis was the part of the story
that didn't make any sense to me.
He went into a house that wasfully occupied with all
(17:52):
intentions of being caught.
Was he planning on killingeveryone?
What was he thinking?
Unfortunately, we won't be ableto answer that question, but
Bradley did answer mine onwhether he immediately
recognized Brian or not.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Absolutely, they had a full profile.
You know, ironically about allof this, this was on Saturday
morning.
Two Wednesdays prior to that,connie and I drove him and his
sister to church.
In fact the night he killed hershe had gone by.
It was a little gas stationthat's across from Marler Ford.
(18:31):
It's been long closed.
Back then it was one of theonly stores around.
We used to ride our bikes to it.
She had gone in the store thatnight on the way to her senior
party or school party, classparty, and he'd asked he's
barely asked her to go out withhim and she declined.
(18:56):
You know she had plans.
You know that was something welearned after the fact.
She had gone there to get gasand he was working in the gas
station there.
She told him she had plans butI can't see her having said that
.
Yeah, he just couldn't.
He couldn't take it and youknow we didn't know till after
(19:18):
the fact that he'd been in a inand out of our house many, many
times, he'd take pictures andwhatnot.
That that was kind of a.
That's one of those things thatleaves a permanent.
Yeah, it's when I come in thehouse, last one in the door
locked.
I'm sorry, just lock the door.
It's not a big deal, it's not,you know, if we're not going
back out, you know, and at nightdefinitely check the doors.
(19:40):
You know things that we didn'tdo Back.
When he came down the stairs, Imean I knew him instantly and I
thought why is Brian Brown andat this point still I'm thinking
Connie's been hurt Bloody knows?
That's the severity that I'mthinking.
Typically, we don't think alongthe lines of those kind of
(20:00):
things happening.
Yeah, you know I'm thinkingbloody nose.
Hey, connie has bloody nose.
Maybe he hit her.
I didn't see the knife.
I think it was, I'm not surewhich hand it was in.
I'd been in his left hand,which you'd think I would have
seen it.
But he was moving so fast.
I just looked at his face andwhile I came up the stairs I
(20:21):
could see he was holding hispants as he ran and I was, you
know, his face.
I mean it was so quick, but itwas right there and I could have
grabbed it.
So he went out the backslidingglass door of the house and out
to Hermitage Road and startedrunning down.
He lived at the end ofHermitage and to the left, so
you know, five minute stroll,you know easily.
(20:45):
He ran down a couple streetlights and he turned with one of
the lights to his back.
So all I could really do is seea silhouette at that point.
And so I was, you know.
I said what are you doing?
And his left shoulder droppedand it looked like a punch
(21:07):
coming.
So I blocked what I thought wasa punch with my right arm.
I was able to raise my arm justabove my shoulder.
The knife went through my armarm.
He was trying to hit me in theneck, so I was blessed to raise
my arm.
I mean, still wear the scar ifI pick up things.
You can see the pretty pokepushing through.
(21:29):
And then when I realized what hehad done and and then he took
off, he just he turned, he faced, he faced me.
He never said a word.
I was a runner, so catching himwas not a big deal.
You know, you made him feelthreatened.
I'm like I was wearing runningshorts and nothing else, and the
light was to his advantage.
You know he could see obviouslyI had nothing in my hands and
(21:56):
he was going to kill me too.
You know it wasn't his initialplan, but it was a convenient
thing for him to do at thatpoint.
So anyways, it was just such areflex.
I saw the shoulder drop.
It looked like a punch comingand I blocked it and I beat him
with my knife.
Then it occurred to me theknife.
So he runs on to the house.
Mind you, he goes home and putsthe knife up and goes to bed
(22:20):
Like no big deal.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
At this point he's realized that his sister
probably isn't just sufferingfrom a nosebleed and runs back
to the house.
What he sees there when hearrives is beyond
heart-wrenching, and hisretelling is not for the smaller
ears or younger audience, soplease be advised and run
(22:43):
through the front door by thistime, mom or dad?
Speaker 2 (22:46):
sure it's not, because when I went, ran through
the front door and looked upthe stairs, my dad was trying to
carry connie down stairs.
She was saturated in blood fromhead to toe and he was covered
in blood, with blood all overthe wall.
It was just the carpet was justsoaked in it.
When he had severed thatprimary blood spot and my dad
(23:10):
tried, you know, her chest wasfilling up and so when my dad
tried to pick her up and cradleher, he just forced the blood
out of her chest.
So she was blood out of herchest so she was slipping out of
my dad's hands while trying toget her downstairs and all the
(23:33):
little brothers were.
Fortunately, some neighborsacross the street came over and
took care of them.
I drove my dad and Connie to thehospital.
She took her last breath rightbefore we crossed the Ocala
Bridge in front of Bula.
I remember calling to her andsaying can you come here and
take that last and be excited?
She said yeah.
(23:54):
By the time we got out of thereit was just a matter of
meditation.
Last time I saw her I waswalking by in the ER and she was
on a table.
I could see her body lyingthere.
I remember my dad falling tohis knees and holding on to me
(24:15):
crying what do I do?
What do I do?
What do I do?
It's fuzzy.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
And, as anyone could ever begin to speculate, of
course things got fuzzy.
At this point His memory, 41years later, is nearly
photographic, but then thingsstart to kind of blur.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Of course our home was a crime scene so we went out
to some friends of ours wholived out on Bayou Rapide.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
At this point, brad and his entire family were kind
of ducking the press and tryingto stay out of the media
headlines, and understandably so.
Um, from what I understand and Ithink I mentioned this in the
podcast episode her funeral wasstanding room only and they
(25:12):
needed to be away from that.
So they hid out and, like hesaid, it gets blurry for him
after that.
So I ask him more specificquestions surrounding the knife
and his wound, because those twothings were also very vague in
(25:32):
all of the research I had done.
Specifically, I asked him thesize of the knife and the well,
he had already mentioned thatthe knife had gone through and
through in his arm and I wascurious as to what kind of
damage that had done to his armspecifically.
And he seemed to almost glossover the fact that he had had a
(25:57):
knife plunged through andthrough his arm because of the
situation which anybody who'seven whether you've experienced
something like that or you'veheard a second hand adrenaline
does crazy things.
So he drove his family with hissister drawing her last breath
(26:19):
and never mentioned his armagain until I ask him like I
bring it up, it's almost likeit's not even there, like it
didn't even happen, but you haveto know that that had to have
been severe, just based on hisdescription.
Listen.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
It was through and through the it was.
He was a kitchen knife.
It was probably, I think it wasa standard butcher knife length
, so I'm thinking that the tipcame out.
The it was probably about a oneinch blade tip came through the
other side, not the holeanyways.
(26:58):
Um, apparently you hadmentioned the defensive wound.
There was a possible defensiveone.
She had one in her hand.
She tried to grab.
The first time he tried to staband the second one was the one
that was successful and shecrawled across and she screamed.
(27:18):
I opened the door and she wason her hands and knees, crawling
over to me.
She collapsed into his arms.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
And here just to clarify, I asked was this
secondhand knowledge or was thissomething he saw with his own
eyes?
And he clarified again that henever made it all the way up the
stairs.
He pursued the intruder.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Chased him out.
I didn't see her until I cameback in.
He was trying to carry her downthe stairs.
The things you don't forget.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Again, just to show you the strength of his
character and the will andbelief in his faith.
Would anyone would allow tocompletely shut them down?
Speaker 2 (28:05):
he didn't when I came home off my mission.
I want to go back just kind offill in a couple of things.
People I did get used to get alot of questions.
I won't speak for my brothersso much.
I will tell you what I doremember.
Their minds were young, some ofthe things they do remember.
Clearly I can tell you somethings that I was told I didn't
(28:27):
witness but I have no doubt thatthey were true.
It's based on someconversations with at least one
of the brothers, one of theyoungest, oldest just under me,
but no, after Connie was killedI went ahead and served my
church mission.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
And in my mind it clicked that he would have been
on his mission when Brianescaped.
So I had to ask how did thataffect him being on a mission?
Speaker 2 (29:00):
when that happened I was on a mission.
I got a call from the man overat the missionaries in this part
of Texas.
They called him the missionpresident.
President Tyler called me up.
It was unusual to get a callfrom him.
He called me late one.
It was unusual to get a callfrom him.
He called me late one evening.
(29:21):
He said Elder Smith, you know Ineed to tell you something.
He said Brian Brown escaped.
They don't know where he's at.
When we're on our missions theyusually have our addresses up
(29:42):
in the church so people canwrite.
We're afraid that maybe somehowhe had gotten my address.
I was the only material witnessfor the trial.
He tried to come for me.
He passed.
I was in San Antonio at thetime, so he did pass Somewhere
in Texas.
Anyways, I basically was told Ihad to hide out.
(30:04):
I mean, I could still performmy duties as a missionary but if
anybody called looking for meor if they saw or see strangers,
they would not know who I was.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
So basically, you were in a witness protection
program.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Pretty much so.
When he was finally capturedlater that year I had my wife
again, my missionary companions.
There was four of us living inan apartment.
They didn't know anything aboutmy situation, never made a
scene out of it.
I still don't.
I never have.
(30:40):
People will come to me and go.
I started working at Oakvilleyears and years later.
Over that 25-year period that Iworked there, people would go,
and even it happens now.
I don't know.
Are you related to Manny Smith?
We'd be working together for along time before they'd figure
(31:05):
out it was me.
I went ahead and served.
They said you don't have to go.
I said no, I'm committed to it,I'm going.
So she was killed on the 14thand I left on my church mission.
On 28th of July they reassignedme to the Texas San Antonio
Spanish Mission.
(31:25):
The trial ended up happening,so I tried to get off my mission
Either way.
It was still committed to go.
I didn't get to go to Sicily,but um she uh.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
And here we start to get into the reports, the trials
, types, information, and eventhough they tried to make some
kind of bad insinuation, all itdoes is lead Brad into telling
us about the amazingrelationship that he shared with
his sister.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
They tried to discredit me, to even imply that
Connie and I had some kind ofromantic relationship.
Yeah, of course they did.
I'll tell you sick SOBs, connieand I were very close.
We were more like twins when Isay we were close, we were very
close, were more like twin.
When I say we were close, wewere very close, when you move a
lot in your side children, wedouble dated in heist we go we,
(32:25):
we go out together, but no bigdeal.
We knew each other weren'tgoing to do anything stupid so
we could go out and have funtogether and go on dates
together and matter.
Matter of fact, I drove the caryou know, when she was on
homecoming court her senior year.
I drove the little convertible.
In fact I've got some pictures.
I drove the car for thehomecoming.
(32:46):
I escorted her to severalthings.
I mean we just went to clubs.
Nobody knew that.
I mean it was not a secret.
People at church knew it,people at school knew it, people
anywhere.
I mean it was not a secret.
People at church knew it,people at school knew it, people
anywhere.
I mean we loved being together.
We got along very well.
Well, you know, I felt bad.
(33:06):
I've lived with that guilt eversince, because the last words
that we had together I wasfussing at her instead of being
excited for her, because Conniewas not a drinker or a smoker or
a doper or anything of the sort, she just was a clean, fun kid.
You know, 41 years later, itstill bothers me that.
(33:29):
You know our last exchange withme I squished her excitement
and fussed at her for beinglight, you know, being an
outsider.
Well, it's true excitement.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
It's what's better for being light, you know, being
awesome and, as you guys canimagine and the people who know
me more closely, I didn't lethim continue on very long in
saying this.
I can tell just from this, thebrief interactions that we've
(34:03):
had, the love and caring andjust absolute respect and all of
the things that you couldpossibly feel for someone that
you love or care about.
He had that for his sister andthere was no doubt in my mind
that she had it and I told himas much.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
You know, I'm sure sometimes, and I do believe
sometimes, the veil betweenmortality and those who have
passed on can be thin.
They can see that you love themeven though they've passed on.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
And this next bit came across prophetic but also a
little eerie foreboding.
Prophetic but also a littleeerie, foreboding, but at the
same time I've I've had thesemoments in my life where I've
I've been in a situation andthought what would I do if?
And insert here, so I felt thisstory that he is about to tell
(34:55):
everyone deeply, because wenever know.
We never know which momentswill be our last and what
memories we'll have seared intoour minds with the rest of our
existence.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
Oh, my goodness, I can remember February, before
she was killed.
You know I don't knowPremonitions, call it what you
may, but I can remember inchurch the second Sunday of
(35:27):
February 83, sitting there.
She was speaking in church thatday.
I remember, while she was atthe podium thinking what would
it be like if something happened.
I remember getting reallyteary-eyed about it because I
(35:49):
could never imagine life withoutit.
When it happened, I got afirst-hand understanding of what
it would be like.
You know, oh goodness, you know.
You really can't explain thatto hurt people.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
And we kind of moved into the world of how far
reaching a tragedy like this.
It's so vast and most peopledon't think about it.
But here's just a touch of howfar this goes.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
You know the effect that it had on the family, at
least for me.
You know my three brothers hadeach other.
They were very close to eachother.
They were little demons in theneighborhood.
They were mischievous, trust me.
They had each other and Connieand I had each other and mom and
dad had each other.
And when Connie was killed Ifelt disconnected somewhat from
(36:49):
the family because they stillhad each other and I didn't feel
like I could fit in.
And then, I guess, looked at mychildren we're much, much older
than their first cousins,brothers being much younger, so
their cousins would be much,much younger.
I had thought over the yearshow my children were cheated
(37:12):
because they didn't have firstcousins on my side or close to,
and they would talk about it.
There's nothing for us to dowhen we go there.
All the younger cousins get tohang out together because they
were 10 years younger than mykids.
That's probably the one, one ofthose things that I, if I was
ever angry and brown aboutsomething it was not just
(37:37):
cheated me out of many, many,many years of memories with
somebody that I loved, mychildren lost out on me.
It affected their wanting toreally go home and hang out
because there was nobody forthem to play with, like the
other cousins had.
Being married helped me, youknow.
At least have somebody there bymy side, still not like having
(38:00):
Connie around One of the thingsthat I mentioned about an
officer from work.
Years later.
I remember sitting in my office.
It wasn't uncommon for staff tocall psychology and just want
to come and vent.
You know, just kind of keep itoff the record and just have
(38:22):
somebody there.
I got a call from this one guyand we talked, we were filming
each other.
He was kind of a quiet soul, sonot a big talker, but very,
very friendly to me.
One day he called me and hesaid hey, can I come talk to you
(38:42):
?
I said sure.
So I thought he was coming tosay man, I'm so sick of this
Lieutenant, blah, blah, blah.
And he came in and sat down andhe just, he just kind of stared
at me from there and I said youokay?
He said yeah.
He said do you want to talk?
(39:03):
He goes I've been wanting totalk to you about something for
a long time and by this timewe'd worked together for 20
years wow and he said you knowwhere I used to work before I
came here?
and I said you know where I usedto work before I came here?
I said I think Angola.
(39:24):
I said you know Brian Brown.
I looked up at him.
I said I sure do.
He goes.
Well, I do too.
As a matter of fact, I'm theone that processed him.
I said, oh really.
He said okay, he goes,something I've been wanting to
(39:48):
share with you.
He says I just want to be, Idon't want to upset you or
anything.
Go ahead, just tell me.
He said one of the things hehad in his property was what was
in it.
He said his floor album in hispersonal property was of
drawings and pictures of menhaving sex with dead people.
(40:10):
He says did that make sense?
Did that seem like apossibility?
I said yeah, yeah, I heardsomething similar said like they
were investigating he was goingto kill her.
You know whether he was goingto have sex with her or not,
(40:31):
even you know.
It just makes you wonder likewhat do you think the family's
not going to know?
Speaker 1 (40:40):
and, just like that, we were back to questions that
we have no answers to the why,the, what, the.
And just like I want answers toall of my cases, obviously,
obviously, and of course, bradwanted answers about his sister.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
You know, I tried to actually go talk to him around,
you know, but they didn't go soshe wouldn't talked to him and
it, you know it wasn't to.
I just wanted to understandwhat, what he was thinking.
I explained that to him.
(41:17):
Now, you know, in a lot of waysI, you know, I don't want
Connie's, even even though it'sconnected with such a hard thing
.
I don't want her to beforgotten.
I don't want her death to gounnoticed and I think people do
(41:37):
need to learn from traumas thatother people experience and
deaths of other people.
I mean, you know it put anawareness in the community that
needed to be put there.
We were complacent, we laid backabout, you know, door locking
and lights.
You know, hey, why are you inmy house?
(41:59):
Anybody that's close to meknows when we go to a restaurant
and sit down, I never sit withmy back to the door and they
just know, they just don't evenquestion.
And it's a lifestyle for me.
Now, it's not something I makea big deal out of, other than
when the grandkids come in hereand say in my house we come in
(42:19):
and we're the last person inBecause people, home invasions
are real.
Craziness exists.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
And that, more than anything, is what we want to
convey and for people to takeaway from.
This is that message Bad thingsdo happen.
Bad people are everywhere.
If there are humans, there isbad, there is evil, there is the
possibility of evil,possibility of evil, every true
(42:52):
crime ever.
If you watch the news interview, what is the first thing the
person being interviewed says oh, I never thought it could
happen here, it can happenanywhere.
Please don't forget that.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
I'm an absolute bear when it comes to my kids.
I'm a small guy.
I'm only 5'5".
I am a monster when it comes tomy kids.
I don't even play games withthem.
My daughter I have embarrassedher more than a few times, even
as an adult.
From what I've experienced inlife, and then spend 25 years
(43:29):
working with criminal thinkers,I can sniff a turd out.
Yeah, you know, when it's yourlife, you just kind of say nope,
that's not a good person to bewith.
I told her one time.
I said you want to do me afavor and help keep me out of
jail.
Quit picking people that I'mgoing to kill somebody over.
You're going to get me lockedup.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
Which I thought was great.
Every father should be a fatherbear and be worried.
But before I let him get offthe phone, because we had over
two hours of conversation thatnight and I had to ask what was
the one all-encompassingfavorite memory or pastime that
he had with Connie and if youwould share it with us.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
I enjoyed sitting with Connie.
She would play and I wouldsleep.
Oh wow, I would sleep.
It's like I have a piano.
It's a little five-foot sixMason Hamlin baby.
Oh wow, it's the one thing whenmy mom and I decided to sell
(44:37):
our house the oldest, this isthe only thing I want.
I could care less aboutanything else in the house.
I want to be it Right.
So I moved it down here.
Next year I sit and play itmyself sometimes.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
I used to love just to just casually sit down and
keep playing and sing with herand on his feelings about Brian,
the man who murdered his sister, who took her from not only him
, mother, and on his feelingsabout Brian, the man who
murdered his sister, who tookher from not only him, but his
children and his grandchildren.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
You know I've never hated the man.
I'm angry that he took mysister.
I've never had hatred towardshim.
I get most black.
It was hard enough losing her.
Didn't want to have to shoulderhatred.
There's some things you can'tcontrol, like the missing and
(45:41):
the longing and the hurt.
Those things I really couldn'tcontrol.
I could control hatred.
You know you don't take itenough.
You know those things I reallycouldn't control.
But I could control the patron.
You know he'd already takenenough.
You know I believe that he'sgoing to.
You know, so he'll have toanswer that.
My job, that I have to answerfor, is did I treat him as a
(46:04):
savior in my father's heaven?
Speaker 1 (46:08):
He treated me which is very likely far better than I
could ever ever feel or think.
Maybe, I don't know after 40,some odd years, maybe it would
be different, but I don't knowthat I could ever be that
graceful.
But I completely agree andunderstand that allowing
yourself to hold on to hatred isoverwhelming and it's
(46:31):
exhausting and the healthiestthing to do is to let it go.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
And if it's your favor, if you're, if it's your
appetite, let go and let godI've heard that a lot or if it's
just, let go and live Iremember about five years after
she passed, I I was married tomy first child and I remember
one day I got to realize all ofa sudden I felt this physical
(47:00):
weight off of my shoulders thatI'd had when I was there and I
talked to my ex-wife about itand I said my ex-wife about it,
and I really think theconclusion that I came to, and
that I still believe exactly, isthat I was able to let more go
(47:22):
any reason.
You know it's kind of hard toexplain.
When you've experiencedsomething like that, you do feel
like there's this physicalweight pulling you down
Depression, call it, Anxiety,call it.
I just remember getting upabout five years after it
happened and I felt it wasdirectly related to Connie's
(47:46):
passing.
Speaker 1 (47:48):
We all agree, or we did all agree, that children are
miracles and his first childallowed him to make room
emotionally, physically,mentally, for the love that he
was going to give her and sheneeded to get that she needed to
receive from him and thathelped him move on from his
(48:10):
grief.
So that little girl helped savehis life before she was even
alive, well, breathing anyway.
And of course the most naturalprogression from babies is to
mothers.
When we got to talking abouthow he felt that Connie may have
been as a mother and I tend toagree- Fantastic mother.
Speaker 2 (48:35):
She'd been a very devoted wife, too Talented.
Speaker 1 (48:37):
She would have been the package deal, the rock-solid
man and I did ask about thesituation where Brian's still
alive.
Speaker 2 (48:47):
he's still in Angola and unsurprisingly, he'd been
asked before.
They get that from peoplewhere's Brian Still in Angola?
Somebody posed the idea well,what if he breaks out again?
He just broke into the house.
It won't turn out pretty.
(49:09):
You know, I don't wish anyundie on him.
He's got his, raised mychildren to be.
Some people call it.
I just say it's a lifestyle ofconscious awareness around you.
The situational awareness issomething that we preach in the
prison system.
I had an old correctionalofficer when I started in 90.
(49:33):
He pulled me aside one daybecause I looked like I was 15
years old and I said I'm alittle guy.
He said listen, if you everwalk into a unit, you walk and
jump towards a crowd of inmates.
Something doesn't seem quiteright.
(49:53):
You don't need to know what itis, just back up calmly and
leave the area and go get help.
That stuck with me my wholelife since then.
If something doesn't feel right, you don't need to know what it
is.
Back away and reassess.
And if you can't figure it out,you don't need to go wherever
(50:15):
this uneasy feeling's at.
Don't go there, go a differentroute.
You don't need to know why.
I've lived that way ever sinceand you can do it in a way that
nobody realizes that's whatyou're doing, so you don't look
like you're freaking out andjust keep talking and acting
normal.
Thank you so much, kelly.
Look, y'all have a good nightokay, you do the same.
Speaker 1 (50:37):
Thank you so much.
Now, this next part, I removedcompletely from the original
order in our conversationbecause I felt like it needed to
be the focus.
To be the focus what you takeaway from this episode, from
this podcast, from this story asa whole.
Connie doesn't need to beforgotten.
Speaker 2 (50:58):
I don't want her to be forgotten.
Connie doesn't need to beforgotten.
I don't want her to beworshipped or anything like that
.
She wouldn't want that either,but she was an incredible person
who had, you know, hopes anddreams, potential, and they were
cut short.
The least I can do as a brotheris keep her memory alive.
(51:24):
And what a good person she was.
Hey guys, and welcome to this very special bonus
episode of Sin Law.
I'm Kelly and today I'm goingto be taking you into a very
different from our otherepisodes.
Setting here, we're going tostep into something heavy and
(00:31):
into the shadows of a momentthat we've already explored.
You might recall from episode31, the Connie Yvette Smith
story, where I shared her storyof how she was tragically
murdered at age 17 in her ownhome by a neighbor that was
(00:57):
obsessed with her and couldn'ttake no for an answer.
His name was Brian Brown, buthe is not the focus of our
stories today, not by any means.
Our focus today is on Connieherself and on the family that
she left behind.
Last week I got a fan mailthrough Buzzsprout, my hosting
(01:21):
website, and it was actuallyfrom and if you haven't listened
to episode 31, stop right now,go back, go listen to that and
then come back here.
Okay, thank you.
So now that you've listened toepisode 31, I initially thought
(01:42):
it was the brother, just becauseit didn't make a whole lot of
sense.
It didn't add up, there were alot of things that didn't
connect and my true crime mindsaid well, it's kind of fishy,
but it didn't come across in thenews articles and things that I
(02:07):
was reading, how close in ageand how close in heart they were
to each other.
Her older brother's name wasBrad Brad Smith, bradley Smith,
and he was about to be 19.
Smith and he was about to be 19.
(02:32):
He was just shy of 19 when hissister was taken from him.
And, lo and behold, last week Iget a fan mail from Mr Bradley
Smith Smith and after I came outof my gripping and frozen shock
, we had a conversation, or afew conversations over a period
(03:00):
of time, and he agreed to talkwith me and tell me about that
night and about his life sinceand all of those things.
So I got the privilege and thehonor to speak with mr bradley
smith and you know we've been incontact off and on before and
after that, um, just discussingdifferent things, and come to
find out, like my mom, we see,and connie, like I told everyone
(03:21):
in the episode and at the inepisode 31, that they knew each
other, but also, I believe now,like they all had some inter
mingling at some point oranother.
Anyway, very interesting, very,very small world, I guess.
(03:44):
However, he reached out to me,we spoke, he agreed to speak
with me.
He allowed me to record it andI'm not going to do a whole lot
this episode.
I'm going to let him speakbecause I feel like this is
something that needs to bespoken and needs to be heard,
especially from the viewpointand from the words and the mouth
(04:06):
and the emotion of someone whowas there, because at the very
end you'll see and you'll hearthis more than once Connie does
not need to be forgotten.
Her story does not need to beforgotten.
What happened that night shouldnever be forgotten by anyone.
So if you take nothing elseaway from this, take that to
(04:31):
heart, listen to her story,don't forget it.
Pass it on to someone who mayneed that, who may need to hear
this to be able to be safer, tolive longer, to be happier and
just to remember, to rememberConnie.
(04:58):
So, before we take the steps offof the into the abyss here, I
got again the honor of speakingwith Mr Brad and he is
delightful and a wonderfullywell-articulated storyteller,
(05:23):
well articulated storyteller andvery well spoken, very
articulate.
I can't say enough good thingsabout him and, from everything
that I've gathered and from whatyou'll hear yourselves, there
are situations and events in ourlives that either change us for
(05:45):
the better or changes for theworse.
And you would think that havingsomething this traumatic and
this, something this awful andthen just so egregiously
unnecessary happened to you soyoung in life that it would
forever have an effect on you.
And I think that not justBradley himself, but his, their
(06:08):
entire family needs to be thethe gold uh, gold standard for
what you can do in spite ofgreat loss and great tragedy,
and that it is possible to goforward and to to be productive
and to be, you know,contributing member of society,
(06:31):
as it were.
So I'm going to stop rambling.
I will now introduce you toBradley Smith.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Yes, do you know?
I had.
I was laughing at myselfearlier when you, when you said
something about recording upthat.
Oh my gosh, I'm so hickish.
I believe that I'm educated.
I go, really.
I do have a couple of degrees.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
A couple degrees is modest.
He has a bachelor's and amaster's in psychology.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Life takes, you know, interesting turns.
I went on my church mission andI came back, finished some time
over at LC and then transferredover to Southern Miss and
finished my master's.
During that time I got marriedand had a kid.
As a matter of fact, my ex-wifeand I we were very good friends
(07:19):
still.
She and I graduated together.
She had a master's inspeech-language pathology and a
master's in counselingpsychology.
I came back to work in the 80sto do an internship and worked
about a year and a half and Ihad an opportunity to work at
(07:40):
one place that I swore I wouldnever work, and it was a prison.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Yeah, you heard that right.
One place that I swore I wouldnever work, and it was a prison.
Yeah, you heard that right.
He grew up, went to school, gota master's and decided to work
in a prison, A federal prison.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Federal facility.
I was given a couple of years.
A couple of years turned into25 years, did a lot of
interesting things there, met alot of interesting people.
You know I actually did sometime over at Pollock, that
federal complex.
But what I did over there, Iwas on the crisis negotiation
team for about 25 years.
(08:17):
I was 23 years on there.
So I did, you know, mypsychology job, did the crisis
initiation, so it was a goodexperience.
It was a wide variety of things, made a lot of great friends
and now I'm actually workingagain after we've retired and
all got old.
(08:37):
I've been wanting to connectwith these guys over the years
but I've been raising grandkidsand being single and doing that.
You don't always have enough toget out.
I'm going to go back to workwith these characters that I
used to work with.
It's been great.
One of the beautiful thingsabout the people I work with at
least the majority of them isthey were true to their
(09:00):
character.
We met when we were in our 20s.
They were true to theircharacter.
We met when we were in our 20s.
We're 60-ish and older and weall seem to be the same as we
were in our 20s.
It was just a testimony to methat they were just genuinely
who they were, because they'renot having to act now Sincere,
hardworking, honest people whodo the best they can in a job
(09:25):
that a lot of people would neverwant to do.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
And if there could ever be a definition that would
fit Bradley Smith more perfectly, it would be exactly how he
just described his co-workersthat he came out of retirement
to work with again.
His job now is a little bitdifferent compared to what he
used to do when he first started.
Now he works for ICE, theimmigration network, and he
(09:53):
basically flies as a securitypersonnel on these flights back
and forth, transferringimmigrants back to or from their
destination or their homecountry.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
There's nothing extravagant or, you know, really
glamorous, because you go there, you bring the inmates or
detainees over to the governmentthere and they deal with them,
and periodically we stayovernight, like in Peru, brazil
or someplace like that.
Stay overnight, like in Peru,brazil or someplace like that.
I always have to rest.
We get there, we get to spendthe evenings hanging out, eating
(10:28):
, buying things to bring back.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
All in all, you would almost never suspect that this
casually jovial sounding man hadbeen through something so
heart-wrenching.
And as he discusses the familydynamics, you'll start to hear a
change, subtle but present, andprobably because we have
already heard this story of whatactually happens or the
rendition of it that was givento the newspapers.
So you can understand whyspeaking about the family and
(11:07):
the dynamics from the past couldstart to affect the way he
tells the story.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
My dad was a very, very hardworking fellow.
He did his 20 years with themilitary for 23 years at
Alexandria Senior High.
Laying around was just not anoption.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
And that didn't stop with his dad, his mother or his
three brothers or himself.
All of the members of thisfamily went on to be productive,
well-rounded humans, and onehas to wonder how that is
possible after you hear thestory that Brad is now going to
(11:49):
tell.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
What's interesting about you know?
I'll speak about myself.
You know, in this case, herethat Friday before I went to I
was still at LC.
I went to my classes, I went to.
We were church custodians atour church when it was over on
Bayou Rapides.
I went in that day to clean andbuff and mop some floors and
(12:10):
get set up for Sunday.
I had a date that night andthen I dropped her off at my
lovely car and went back to work.
I worked at the church thatnight until about 2.30.
We could work at any hour overat the church.
(12:31):
I could go to class and dowhatever, then go back and work
as long as the place was readyfor meetings whenever they were
scheduled.
That's what I had done.
I had picked up the play about6 o'clock.
Oh no, let me back up.
It was another thing.
Went to college, went to schoolthat day, went to work and then
(12:53):
about 5 that evening on thatFriday I had my last meeting
with our congregation bishop tofinalize the paperwork for my
mission church missions.
That was the night that wefinalized and everything and was
ready to go the paperwork andthey sent it into Salt Lake City
(13:13):
to the church headquarters andthen I would get my mission call
.
It was about three weeks laterthat I got my call to Sicily,
you know, completed thepaperwork went and picked up.
We went on.
Our date took her back, had arule 11 o'clock it was as late
as we needed to be out.
The date was away and I wentback to work.
(13:36):
Like I said, I left about 2.30that morning.
I got home just before 3,probably 5 to three.
Mom and Daddy's house is asplit-level home.
We still own it.
It's on the market but it's asplit-level home.
I came in through I had abedroom door that went outside
(14:00):
so I would park and I camethrough my door into the house.
And you know, back then wedidn't lock doors.
Nobody did.
Nobody locked them.
So I came through my door.
I had a bathroom downstairs andI was standing there brushing
my teeth and washing my face andhoney came in about 10 minutes
later, so five minutes afterthree.
(14:23):
I was very protective of her andshe started to tell me about
her evening.
She was all excited and Ifussed at her.
To be honest, I fussed at herbecause she didn't want to tell
me.
So she stopped talking While wewere talking.
I do remember this extremelywell and, like I said, this
(14:45):
stuff is so burned into memorythat I have no doubt that I'm
not mistaken about any detailthat I can take.
I'll tell you if I'm not realclear on something.
We had several cats, two in thehouse.
One was a cat, cat Smokey.
The downstairs stairs that wentto the center level of my home
(15:08):
were concrete.
I didn't hear anything in there.
The stairs going up to whereConnie's bedroom, my brother's
bedroom and my parents' bedroomwas at were wooden and you could
hear the cats running up anddown the stairs.
That's all these steps.
Connie and I were talking downat my bathroom and during that
(15:29):
time I heard what I thought wasthe cats up the stairs.
It was not.
It was Brian who had beenhiding in the center level of
the home in the dark in ourliving room, creeping up the
stairs.
When he heard me talking, to metalking, he went and hid in her
closet and again I didn't thinkanything about it.
(15:50):
She goes on upstairs.
I go into the kitchen, I made abowl of raisin bread, I went
back downstairs and I ate in mybedroom.
This happened pretty quickly.
I mean, it wasn't a big one.
I was hungry, ate somethingreal quick.
Laid back.
I remember laying back on mybed with my legs hanging off.
I was wearing a pair of runningshorts.
(16:12):
I'll tell you these detailsbecause they actually bring them
up to court.
They show pictures.
I was in good shape, I wasathletic, it still worked out.
I was 19.
I was short of be 19.
Laid back on the bed and Iheard scream.
Now I don't do horror movies avery legitimate reason for not
(16:36):
doing it.
Ptsd was until a couple yearslater.
But the scream was a screamthat.
It was a shrill scream, so loud, so intense, so piercing.
It was like she was in the roomwith me, even though she was in
flight stairs to the upperlevel.
And I heard something my momwould say something about blood.
(16:58):
Well, connie had chronic bloodynoses.
They could be severe.
So I thought, scream, what thedevil.
So I ran up my flight of stairs.
The hall light was on.
The hall light was on and as Icame up those stairs I got to
the top stairs and Brian Browncrossed right in front of me.
(17:20):
I mean, within a foot I couldhave reached out.
Pants were open in the front.
He was holding them with hisleft hand.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
So I did interrupt him at this point.
I had to ask if he hadimmediately recognized Brian
Brown or if he had some kind ofconcealing mask or anything of
the sort, because this was thepart of the story that didn't
make any sense to me, becausethis was the part of the story
that didn't make any sense to me.
He went into a house that wasfully occupied with all
(17:52):
intentions of being caught.
Was he planning on killingeveryone?
What was he thinking?
Unfortunately, we won't be ableto answer that question, but
Bradley did answer mine onwhether he immediately
recognized Brian or not.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Absolutely, they had a full profile.
You know, ironically about allof this, this was on Saturday
morning.
Two Wednesdays prior to that,connie and I drove him and his
sister to church.
In fact the night he killed hershe had gone by.
It was a little gas stationthat's across from Marler Ford.
(18:31):
It's been long closed.
Back then it was one of theonly stores around.
We used to ride our bikes to it.
She had gone in the store thatnight on the way to her senior
party or school party, classparty, and he'd asked he's
barely asked her to go out withhim and she declined.
(18:56):
You know she had plans.
You know that was something welearned after the fact.
She had gone there to get gasand he was working in the gas
station there.
She told him she had plans butI can't see her having said that
.
Yeah, he just couldn't.
He couldn't take it and youknow we didn't know till after
(19:18):
the fact that he'd been in a inand out of our house many, many
times, he'd take pictures andwhatnot.
That that was kind of a.
That's one of those things thatleaves a permanent.
Yeah, it's when I come in thehouse, last one in the door
locked.
I'm sorry, just lock the door.
It's not a big deal, it's not,you know, if we're not going
back out, you know, and at nightdefinitely check the doors.
(19:40):
You know things that we didn'tdo Back.
When he came down the stairs, Imean I knew him instantly and I
thought why is Brian Brown andat this point still I'm thinking
Connie's been hurt Bloody knows?
That's the severity that I'mthinking.
Typically, we don't think alongthe lines of those kind of
(20:00):
things happening.
Yeah, you know I'm thinkingbloody nose.
Hey, connie has bloody nose.
Maybe he hit her.
I didn't see the knife.
I think it was, I'm not surewhich hand it was in.
I'd been in his left hand,which you'd think I would have
seen it.
But he was moving so fast.
I just looked at his face andwhile I came up the stairs I
(20:21):
could see he was holding hispants as he ran and I was, you
know, his face.
I mean it was so quick, but itwas right there and I could have
grabbed it.
So he went out the backslidingglass door of the house and out
to Hermitage Road and startedrunning down.
He lived at the end ofHermitage and to the left, so
you know, five minute stroll,you know easily.
(20:45):
He ran down a couple streetlights and he turned with one of
the lights to his back.
So all I could really do is seea silhouette at that point.
And so I was, you know.
I said what are you doing?
And his left shoulder droppedand it looked like a punch
(21:07):
coming.
So I blocked what I thought wasa punch with my right arm.
I was able to raise my arm justabove my shoulder.
The knife went through my armarm.
He was trying to hit me in theneck, so I was blessed to raise
my arm.
I mean, still wear the scar ifI pick up things.
You can see the pretty pokepushing through.
(21:29):
And then when I realized what hehad done and and then he took
off, he just he turned, he faced, he faced me.
He never said a word.
I was a runner, so catching himwas not a big deal.
You know, you made him feelthreatened.
I'm like I was wearing runningshorts and nothing else, and the
light was to his advantage.
You know he could see obviouslyI had nothing in my hands and
(21:56):
he was going to kill me too.
You know it wasn't his initialplan, but it was a convenient
thing for him to do at thatpoint.
So anyways, it was just such areflex.
I saw the shoulder drop.
It looked like a punch comingand I blocked it and I beat him
with my knife.
Then it occurred to me theknife.
So he runs on to the house.
Mind you, he goes home and putsthe knife up and goes to bed
(22:20):
Like no big deal.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
At this point he's realized that his sister
probably isn't just sufferingfrom a nosebleed and runs back
to the house.
What he sees there when hearrives is beyond
heart-wrenching, and hisretelling is not for the smaller
ears or younger audience, soplease be advised and run
(22:43):
through the front door by thistime, mom or dad?
Speaker 2 (22:46):
sure it's not, because when I went, ran through
the front door and looked upthe stairs, my dad was trying to
carry connie down stairs.
She was saturated in blood fromhead to toe and he was covered
in blood, with blood all overthe wall.
It was just the carpet was justsoaked in it.
When he had severed thatprimary blood spot and my dad
(23:10):
tried, you know, her chest wasfilling up and so when my dad
tried to pick her up and cradleher, he just forced the blood
out of her chest.
So she was blood out of herchest so she was slipping out of
my dad's hands while trying toget her downstairs and all the
(23:33):
little brothers were.
Fortunately, some neighborsacross the street came over and
took care of them.
I drove my dad and Connie to thehospital.
She took her last breath rightbefore we crossed the Ocala
Bridge in front of Bula.
I remember calling to her andsaying can you come here and
take that last and be excited?
She said yeah.
(23:54):
By the time we got out of thereit was just a matter of
meditation.
Last time I saw her I waswalking by in the ER and she was
on a table.
I could see her body lyingthere.
I remember my dad falling tohis knees and holding on to me
(24:15):
crying what do I do?
What do I do?
What do I do?
It's fuzzy.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
And, as anyone could ever begin to speculate, of
course things got fuzzy.
At this point His memory, 41years later, is nearly
photographic, but then thingsstart to kind of blur.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Of course our home was a crime scene so we went out
to some friends of ours wholived out on Bayou Rapide.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
At this point, brad and his entire family were kind
of ducking the press and tryingto stay out of the media
headlines, and understandably so.
Um, from what I understand and Ithink I mentioned this in the
podcast episode her funeral wasstanding room only and they
(25:12):
needed to be away from that.
So they hid out and, like hesaid, it gets blurry for him
after that.
So I ask him more specificquestions surrounding the knife
and his wound, because those twothings were also very vague in
(25:32):
all of the research I had done.
Specifically, I asked him thesize of the knife and the well,
he had already mentioned thatthe knife had gone through and
through in his arm and I wascurious as to what kind of
damage that had done to his armspecifically.
And he seemed to almost glossover the fact that he had had a
(25:57):
knife plunged through andthrough his arm because of the
situation which anybody who'seven whether you've experienced
something like that or you'veheard a second hand adrenaline
does crazy things.
So he drove his family with hissister drawing her last breath
(26:19):
and never mentioned his armagain until I ask him like I
bring it up, it's almost likeit's not even there, like it
didn't even happen, but you haveto know that that had to have
been severe, just based on hisdescription.
Listen.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
It was through and through the it was.
He was a kitchen knife.
It was probably, I think it wasa standard butcher knife length
, so I'm thinking that the tipcame out.
The it was probably about a oneinch blade tip came through the
other side, not the holeanyways.
(26:58):
Um, apparently you hadmentioned the defensive wound.
There was a possible defensiveone.
She had one in her hand.
She tried to grab.
The first time he tried to staband the second one was the one
that was successful and shecrawled across and she screamed.
(27:18):
I opened the door and she wason her hands and knees, crawling
over to me.
She collapsed into his arms.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
And here just to clarify, I asked was this
secondhand knowledge or was thissomething he saw with his own
eyes?
And he clarified again that henever made it all the way up the
stairs.
He pursued the intruder.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Chased him out.
I didn't see her until I cameback in.
He was trying to carry her downthe stairs.
The things you don't forget.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Again, just to show you the strength of his
character and the will andbelief in his faith.
Would anyone would allow tocompletely shut them down?
Speaker 2 (28:05):
he didn't when I came home off my mission.
I want to go back just kind offill in a couple of things.
People I did get used to get alot of questions.
I won't speak for my brothersso much.
I will tell you what I doremember.
Their minds were young, some ofthe things they do remember.
Clearly I can tell you somethings that I was told I didn't
(28:27):
witness but I have no doubt thatthey were true.
It's based on someconversations with at least one
of the brothers, one of theyoungest, oldest just under me,
but no, after Connie was killedI went ahead and served my
church mission.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
And in my mind it clicked that he would have been
on his mission when Brianescaped.
So I had to ask how did thataffect him being on a mission?
Speaker 2 (29:00):
when that happened I was on a mission.
I got a call from the man overat the missionaries in this part
of Texas.
They called him the missionpresident.
President Tyler called me up.
It was unusual to get a callfrom him.
He called me late one.
It was unusual to get a callfrom him.
He called me late one evening.
(29:21):
He said Elder Smith, you know Ineed to tell you something.
He said Brian Brown escaped.
They don't know where he's at.
When we're on our missions theyusually have our addresses up
(29:42):
in the church so people canwrite.
We're afraid that maybe somehowhe had gotten my address.
I was the only material witnessfor the trial.
He tried to come for me.
He passed.
I was in San Antonio at thetime, so he did pass Somewhere
in Texas.
Anyways, I basically was told Ihad to hide out.
(30:04):
I mean, I could still performmy duties as a missionary but if
anybody called looking for meor if they saw or see strangers,
they would not know who I was.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
So basically, you were in a witness protection
program.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Pretty much so.
When he was finally capturedlater that year I had my wife
again, my missionary companions.
There was four of us living inan apartment.
They didn't know anything aboutmy situation, never made a
scene out of it.
I still don't.
I never have.
(30:40):
People will come to me and go.
I started working at Oakvilleyears and years later.
Over that 25-year period that Iworked there, people would go,
and even it happens now.
I don't know.
Are you related to Manny Smith?
We'd be working together for along time before they'd figure
(31:05):
out it was me.
I went ahead and served.
They said you don't have to go.
I said no, I'm committed to it,I'm going.
So she was killed on the 14thand I left on my church mission.
On 28th of July they reassignedme to the Texas San Antonio
Spanish Mission.
(31:25):
The trial ended up happening,so I tried to get off my mission
Either way.
It was still committed to go.
I didn't get to go to Sicily,but um she uh.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
And here we start to get into the reports, the trials
, types, information, and eventhough they tried to make some
kind of bad insinuation, all itdoes is lead Brad into telling
us about the amazingrelationship that he shared with
his sister.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
They tried to discredit me, to even imply that
Connie and I had some kind ofromantic relationship.
Yeah, of course they did.
I'll tell you sick SOBs, connieand I were very close.
We were more like twins when Isay we were close, we were very
close, were more like twin.
When I say we were close, wewere very close, when you move a
lot in your side children, wedouble dated in heist we go we,
(32:25):
we go out together, but no bigdeal.
We knew each other weren'tgoing to do anything stupid so
we could go out and have funtogether and go on dates
together and matter.
Matter of fact, I drove the caryou know, when she was on
homecoming court her senior year.
I drove the little convertible.
In fact I've got some pictures.
I drove the car for thehomecoming.
(32:46):
I escorted her to severalthings.
I mean we just went to clubs.
Nobody knew that.
I mean it was not a secret.
People at church knew it,people at school knew it, people
anywhere.
I mean it was not a secret.
People at church knew it,people at school knew it, people
anywhere.
I mean we loved being together.
We got along very well.
Well, you know, I felt bad.
(33:06):
I've lived with that guilt eversince, because the last words
that we had together I wasfussing at her instead of being
excited for her, because Conniewas not a drinker or a smoker or
a doper or anything of the sort, she just was a clean, fun kid.
You know, 41 years later, itstill bothers me that.
(33:29):
You know our last exchange withme I squished her excitement
and fussed at her for beinglight, you know, being an
outsider.
Well, it's true excitement.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
It's what's better for being light, you know, being
awesome and, as you guys canimagine and the people who know
me more closely, I didn't lethim continue on very long in
saying this.
I can tell just from this, thebrief interactions that we've
(34:03):
had, the love and caring andjust absolute respect and all of
the things that you couldpossibly feel for someone that
you love or care about.
He had that for his sister andthere was no doubt in my mind
that she had it and I told himas much.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
You know, I'm sure sometimes, and I do believe
sometimes, the veil betweenmortality and those who have
passed on can be thin.
They can see that you love themeven though they've passed on.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
And this next bit came across prophetic but also a
little eerie foreboding.
Prophetic but also a littleeerie, foreboding, but at the
same time I've I've had thesemoments in my life where I've
I've been in a situation andthought what would I do if?
And insert here, so I felt thisstory that he is about to tell
(34:55):
everyone deeply, because wenever know.
We never know which momentswill be our last and what
memories we'll have seared intoour minds with the rest of our
existence.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
Oh, my goodness, I can remember February, before
she was killed.
You know I don't knowPremonitions, call it what you
may, but I can remember inchurch the second Sunday of
(35:27):
February 83, sitting there.
She was speaking in church thatday.
I remember, while she was atthe podium thinking what would
it be like if something happened.
I remember getting reallyteary-eyed about it because I
(35:49):
could never imagine life withoutit.
When it happened, I got afirst-hand understanding of what
it would be like.
You know, oh goodness, you know.
You really can't explain thatto hurt people.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
And we kind of moved into the world of how far
reaching a tragedy like this.
It's so vast and most peopledon't think about it.
But here's just a touch of howfar this goes.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
You know the effect that it had on the family, at
least for me.
You know my three brothers hadeach other.
They were very close to eachother.
They were little demons in theneighborhood.
They were mischievous, trust me.
They had each other and Connieand I had each other and mom and
dad had each other.
And when Connie was killed Ifelt disconnected somewhat from
(36:49):
the family because they stillhad each other and I didn't feel
like I could fit in.
And then, I guess, looked at mychildren we're much, much older
than their first cousins,brothers being much younger, so
their cousins would be much,much younger.
I had thought over the yearshow my children were cheated
(37:12):
because they didn't have firstcousins on my side or close to,
and they would talk about it.
There's nothing for us to dowhen we go there.
All the younger cousins get tohang out together because they
were 10 years younger than mykids.
That's probably the one, one ofthose things that I, if I was
ever angry and brown aboutsomething it was not just
(37:37):
cheated me out of many, many,many years of memories with
somebody that I loved, mychildren lost out on me.
It affected their wanting toreally go home and hang out
because there was nobody forthem to play with, like the
other cousins had.
Being married helped me, youknow.
At least have somebody there bymy side, still not like having
(38:00):
Connie around One of the thingsthat I mentioned about an
officer from work.
Years later.
I remember sitting in my office.
It wasn't uncommon for staff tocall psychology and just want
to come and vent.
You know, just kind of keep itoff the record and just have
(38:22):
somebody there.
I got a call from this one guyand we talked, we were filming
each other.
He was kind of a quiet soul, sonot a big talker, but very,
very friendly to me.
One day he called me and hesaid hey, can I come talk to you
(38:42):
?
I said sure.
So I thought he was coming tosay man, I'm so sick of this
Lieutenant, blah, blah, blah.
And he came in and sat down andhe just, he just kind of stared
at me from there and I said youokay?
He said yeah.
He said do you want to talk?
(39:03):
He goes I've been wanting totalk to you about something for
a long time and by this timewe'd worked together for 20
years wow and he said you knowwhere I used to work before I
came here?
and I said you know where I usedto work before I came here?
I said I think Angola.
(39:24):
I said you know Brian Brown.
I looked up at him.
I said I sure do.
He goes.
Well, I do too.
As a matter of fact, I'm theone that processed him.
I said, oh really.
He said okay, he goes,something I've been wanting to
(39:48):
share with you.
He says I just want to be, Idon't want to upset you or
anything.
Go ahead, just tell me.
He said one of the things hehad in his property was what was
in it.
He said his floor album in hispersonal property was of
drawings and pictures of menhaving sex with dead people.
(40:10):
He says did that make sense?
Did that seem like apossibility?
I said yeah, yeah, I heardsomething similar said like they
were investigating he was goingto kill her.
You know whether he was goingto have sex with her or not,
(40:31):
even you know.
It just makes you wonder likewhat do you think the family's
not going to know?
Speaker 1 (40:40):
and, just like that, we were back to questions that
we have no answers to the why,the, what, the.
And just like I want answers toall of my cases, obviously,
obviously, and of course, bradwanted answers about his sister.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
You know, I tried to actually go talk to him around,
you know, but they didn't go soshe wouldn't talked to him and
it, you know it wasn't to.
I just wanted to understandwhat, what he was thinking.
I explained that to him.
(41:17):
Now, you know, in a lot of waysI, you know, I don't want
Connie's, even even though it'sconnected with such a hard thing
.
I don't want her to beforgotten.
I don't want her death to gounnoticed and I think people do
(41:37):
need to learn from traumas thatother people experience and
deaths of other people.
I mean, you know it put anawareness in the community that
needed to be put there.
We were complacent, we laid backabout, you know, door locking
and lights.
You know, hey, why are you inmy house?
(41:59):
Anybody that's close to meknows when we go to a restaurant
and sit down, I never sit withmy back to the door and they
just know, they just don't evenquestion.
And it's a lifestyle for me.
Now, it's not something I makea big deal out of, other than
when the grandkids come in hereand say in my house we come in
(42:19):
and we're the last person inBecause people, home invasions
are real.
Craziness exists.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
And that, more than anything, is what we want to
convey and for people to takeaway from.
This is that message Bad thingsdo happen.
Bad people are everywhere.
If there are humans, there isbad, there is evil, there is the
possibility of evil,possibility of evil, every true
(42:52):
crime ever.
If you watch the news interview, what is the first thing the
person being interviewed says oh, I never thought it could
happen here, it can happenanywhere.
Please don't forget that.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
I'm an absolute bear when it comes to my kids.
I'm a small guy.
I'm only 5'5".
I am a monster when it comes tomy kids.
I don't even play games withthem.
My daughter I have embarrassedher more than a few times, even
as an adult.
From what I've experienced inlife, and then spend 25 years
(43:29):
working with criminal thinkers,I can sniff a turd out.
Yeah, you know, when it's yourlife, you just kind of say nope,
that's not a good person to bewith.
I told her one time.
I said you want to do me afavor and help keep me out of
jail.
Quit picking people that I'mgoing to kill somebody over.
You're going to get me lockedup.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
Which I thought was great.
Every father should be a fatherbear and be worried.
But before I let him get offthe phone, because we had over
two hours of conversation thatnight and I had to ask what was
the one all-encompassingfavorite memory or pastime that
he had with Connie and if youwould share it with us.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
I enjoyed sitting with Connie.
She would play and I wouldsleep.
Oh wow, I would sleep.
It's like I have a piano.
It's a little five-foot sixMason Hamlin baby.
Oh wow, it's the one thing whenmy mom and I decided to sell
(44:37):
our house the oldest, this isthe only thing I want.
I could care less aboutanything else in the house.
I want to be it Right.
So I moved it down here.
Next year I sit and play itmyself sometimes.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
I used to love just to just casually sit down and
keep playing and sing with herand on his feelings about Brian,
the man who murdered his sister, who took her from not only him
, mother, and on his feelingsabout Brian, the man who
murdered his sister, who tookher from not only him, but his
children and his grandchildren.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
You know I've never hated the man.
I'm angry that he took mysister.
I've never had hatred towardshim.
I get most black.
It was hard enough losing her.
Didn't want to have to shoulderhatred.
There's some things you can'tcontrol, like the missing and
(45:41):
the longing and the hurt.
Those things I really couldn'tcontrol.
I could control hatred.
You know you don't take itenough.
You know those things I reallycouldn't control.
But I could control the patron.
You know he'd already takenenough.
You know I believe that he'sgoing to.
You know, so he'll have toanswer that.
My job, that I have to answerfor, is did I treat him as a
(46:04):
savior in my father's heaven?
Speaker 1 (46:08):
He treated me which is very likely far better than I
could ever ever feel or think.
Maybe, I don't know after 40,some odd years, maybe it would
be different, but I don't knowthat I could ever be that
graceful.
But I completely agree andunderstand that allowing
yourself to hold on to hatred isoverwhelming and it's
(46:31):
exhausting and the healthiestthing to do is to let it go.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
And if it's your favor, if you're, if it's your
appetite, let go and let godI've heard that a lot or if it's
just, let go and live Iremember about five years after
she passed, I I was married tomy first child and I remember
one day I got to realize all ofa sudden I felt this physical
(47:00):
weight off of my shoulders thatI'd had when I was there and I
talked to my ex-wife about itand I said my ex-wife about it,
and I really think theconclusion that I came to, and
that I still believe exactly, isthat I was able to let more go
(47:22):
any reason.
You know it's kind of hard toexplain.
When you've experiencedsomething like that, you do feel
like there's this physicalweight pulling you down
Depression, call it, Anxiety,call it.
I just remember getting upabout five years after it
happened and I felt it wasdirectly related to Connie's
(47:46):
passing.
Speaker 1 (47:48):
We all agree, or we did all agree, that children are
miracles and his first childallowed him to make room
emotionally, physically,mentally, for the love that he
was going to give her and sheneeded to get that she needed to
receive from him and thathelped him move on from his
(48:10):
grief.
So that little girl helped savehis life before she was even
alive, well, breathing anyway.
And of course the most naturalprogression from babies is to
mothers.
When we got to talking abouthow he felt that Connie may have
been as a mother and I tend toagree- Fantastic mother.
Speaker 2 (48:35):
She'd been a very devoted wife, too Talented.
Speaker 1 (48:37):
She would have been the package deal, the rock-solid
man and I did ask about thesituation where Brian's still
alive.
Speaker 2 (48:47):
he's still in Angola and unsurprisingly, he'd been
asked before.
They get that from peoplewhere's Brian Still in Angola?
Somebody posed the idea well,what if he breaks out again?
He just broke into the house.
It won't turn out pretty.
(49:09):
You know, I don't wish anyundie on him.
He's got his, raised mychildren to be.
Some people call it.
I just say it's a lifestyle ofconscious awareness around you.
The situational awareness issomething that we preach in the
prison system.
I had an old correctionalofficer when I started in 90.
(49:33):
He pulled me aside one daybecause I looked like I was 15
years old and I said I'm alittle guy.
He said listen, if you everwalk into a unit, you walk and
jump towards a crowd of inmates.
Something doesn't seem quiteright.
(49:53):
You don't need to know what itis, just back up calmly and
leave the area and go get help.
That stuck with me my wholelife since then.
If something doesn't feel right, you don't need to know what it
is.
Back away and reassess.
And if you can't figure it out,you don't need to go wherever
(50:15):
this uneasy feeling's at.
Don't go there, go a differentroute.
You don't need to know why.
I've lived that way ever sinceand you can do it in a way that
nobody realizes that's whatyou're doing, so you don't look
like you're freaking out andjust keep talking and acting
normal.
Thank you so much, kelly.
Look, y'all have a good nightokay, you do the same.
Speaker 1 (50:37):
Thank you so much.
Now, this next part, I removedcompletely from the original
order in our conversationbecause I felt like it needed to
be the focus.
To be the focus what you takeaway from this episode, from
this podcast, from this story asa whole.
Connie doesn't need to beforgotten.
Speaker 2 (50:58):
I don't want her to be forgotten.
Connie doesn't need to beforgotten.
I don't want her to beworshipped or anything like that
.
She wouldn't want that either,but she was an incredible person
who had, you know, hopes anddreams, potential, and they were
cut short.
The least I can do as a brotheris keep her memory alive.
(51:24):
And what a good person she was.
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