October 4, 2023 • 37 mins
Join us in an enlightening conversation with Michael DeLon, founder of Paperback Expert, as we delve into trust-building and how it transforms prospects into committed clients. We spill the secrets on how to elevate your content game, cutting through the noise, and making your brand the go-to expert, using platforms such as blogging, videos, social media, and emails.
Learn why the pros like Gary Vaynerchuk emphasize the value of having multiple touchpoints with your audience and the unique role this plays in fostering trust and credibility. Finally, we explore the boundless power of podcasting and books in creating that much-needed trust. We discuss the advantages of starting your podcast, the invaluable relationships it can help you forge, and why it's a potent tool for establishing yourself as an industry expert.
Check out how Michael and his team can help your firm at www.paperbackexpert.com and get your Credibility Score to see how credible you currently are at www.credibilitycalculator.com
Follow Spotlight Branding for more!
Facebook: www.facebook.com/spotlightbranding
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TikTok: @spotlight.media
Visit www.spotlightinsider.com for additional content to help your firm grow!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
This is Center Stage putting your firm in the
spotlight by highlightingbusiness owners and other
industry experts to help takeyour firm to the next level.
Hey everyone, and welcome toCenter Stage.
I'm your host, john Henson, intoday's episode.
A little bit different thanwhat you're probably used to.
Today's episode is actually apresentation that I did with a
(00:35):
former Center Stage guest,michael DeLon from Paperback
Expert.
We talked a lot about theimportance of authority building
, credibility building, why youwould do that, and we provide
some different ways for you todo that.
This episode well, thispresentation really kind of a
few months old but still a tonof value in there and I really
(00:56):
hope you do stick around andcheck it out.
Also, go check out what Michaelis doing over at Paperback
Expert.
He does book publishing.
So if you've ever wanted topublish a book for your firm
I've published a lot of booksfor myself.
It's a really fun process, atleast to me, but they can take a
lot of that work off of yourplate and really help you have
(01:17):
just a really core piece ofcredibility and authority in
your practice area.
So go over toPaperbackExpertcom and check out
all of the things that theywill be doing.
And, yeah, I wanted to put thisepisode out there because I
really thought there was a tonof good information.
Also, I'm out on paternityright now, so I thought this
(01:40):
would be a great place to throwthat in, but we'll be back next
week with another live episode.
Thanks so much.
We're talking about theimportance of credibility in
your marketing.
We were talking, I think, alittle bit off air maybe, like
right when we first jumped on,just about how important
credibility is becoming.
I think we're kind of seeing ashift now.
(02:02):
Maybe 10 years ago it wasreally just all about search
rankings and just how manykeywords can you stuff in your
website and overall, and justrankings this and rankings that.
Now we're kind of seeing moreof a shift towards quality
content.
But you can't have qualitycontent if people don't trust
(02:23):
you, and those are the kind ofpeople that want to work with
you.
It's the wholeno-like-and-trust sort of thing
that we've been hearing foryears.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Right, yeah, and it's taking that really to the next
level, I think, because, as Itell people no-like-and-trust we
all know that I'm really tiredof that phrase, we all get it.
I think credibility, honestlyit takes it to the next level
down and I'll talk about that alittle bit later.
But I term credibility asreally the level of confidence
that somebody has in you.
(02:51):
I mean no-like-and-trust you,am I really confident and do I
have that connection with you?
That's how I seek credibilityreally making a difference in
business.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yeah, so, yeah.
So, before we jump in on that,for those of you who don't know
who I am, I'm John Henson.
I'm the editorial director hereat Spotlight Branding, which
means I just sit around all day,I write blogs, I do podcasts, I
do things like this, and I getto just make all kinds of
content, because that's what wedo here at Spotlight Branding.
We work with lawyers, financialpros, providing content
(03:27):
marketing services.
So your blogs, videos, socialmedia, emails, all that kind of
good stuff and with the goal ofhelping you increase referrals
but also making you look likethe credible expert.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Yeah, absolutely, and we'll talk later about that and
how you help people nurtureleads, because that is such an
important part that a lot ofbusiness owners miss, so
definitely want to come back tothat.
I'm Michael DeLon.
I'm president and founder ofPaperback Expert.
We help business owners createa book without writing a word,
to establish your credibility inthe eyes of your audience, and
(04:04):
then we teach you how to usethat credibility and that
authority positioning to convertprospects into clients and
clients into referrals to growyour business.
So John and I have connected.
We've both been on each other'spodcasts.
Our companies do a lot togetherand we want to do more, and
this was just this is somethingwe decided to do to say how do
(04:24):
we build a dialogue, how do weshare some information that's
really practical, helpful.
So our hope is that you'llleave today with something you
can actually apply and wedefinitely want to answer your
questions.
So in the chat, just if you'vegot a question, put the letter Q
with a dash and then type outyour question at the end.
We're going to go through that.
We're going to answer yourquestions.
We're here to help.
(04:45):
So we're going to let John kickthis whole thing off, talking
about credibility and why it'simportant and how.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Yeah, yeah.
So you know, we kind of touchedon it at the start.
You know, people were in an eraright now where people want to
work with the expert.
You know, like I use thisanalogy a lot, like, if you've
got to go get heart surgery,you're not going to just go to
some doctor who's a generalpractitioner, right, you're
going to do your research,you're going to seek out the
(05:16):
best heart surgeon, the heartspecialist that you can find,
and so you know why, why, why isthat important?
How are you going to?
How are you?
First of all, how are you, asin this case, as a heart
specialist?
And in your case you know,whatever you're doing, you're a
business lawyer, you're a CPA, afinancial advisor, family law
(05:37):
attorney, whatever it is how doyou then communicate that to
your audience that, hey, I'm thespecialist that you should be
working with?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Yeah, absolutely.
And there's so many ways to doit, because one of the things
about credibility and aboutmarketing is we've got to cut
through the clutter is what Itell people.
There's just so much noise outthere and how is somebody going
to choose an attorney?
Let's say, let's just campthere.
So we've worked with a lot ofpersonal injury attorneys and
(06:06):
that's a really crowded market,very competitive, and if I asked
you, john, I won't put you onthe spot.
But if I asked you, what's atypical billboard for a personal
injury attorney?
Look like or say, right, well,you know, right, I just want $80
million with and that's whatthey all say and that's okay.
But I don't really think that'sthe message that a lot of
(06:27):
people want.
And so we worked with one andI'm going to give some examples
through this whole thing becauseI think the examples really
help it.
So I've got a client down inFlorida, very competitive market
personal injury attorney.
He's a small guy against twobig gorillas.
Okay, these guys are spending.
The other guys are spendinglike a half a million a month in
marketing and he's like I don'thave that.
(06:49):
We got his story and this playsinto credibility.
We got his story.
He was a baseball player goinginto college.
He was a pitcher through hisarm out in like his third year,
ruined his pro career, got rehab, got surgery, went through all
of that.
Came out of college, ended upbecoming a personal injury
attorney.
Now he helps people who youknow.
(07:10):
Life throws them a curveball,they get hit and when we found
this story we said no, wait aminute, william, let's tell your
story.
I said have you ever toldanybody that that whole baseball
thing he's like?
No, we're going to.
So we created this brand for himand created his book is called
when Life Throws you a Curveballwhat to do after you've been in
(07:32):
a serious accident, by WilliamFranke, a baseball player turned
attorney.
We did that on purpose becauseit's a way for him to compete
against the big guys who aresaying we just want an $18
million case.
You know what I care, but Idon't care.
What I want to know is can yourelate to me?
And he has been through theprocess that his clients are
(07:57):
going through?
Because when you get hit by abig truck or a dog bites you,
you slip and fall.
Life just threw you a curveballand now you've got to get rehab
.
You've got to go through.
He's been there and when heconnects that at the heart level
, people connect with him andthey trust him because he's got
credibility in their eyes,because he's been there.
(08:18):
That's what I'm talking aboutwhen I talk credibility.
It's your story and how do youconnect that?
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Yeah, yeah, and to me , I think there's two aspects of
it.
One is certainly that thatstory side of it, you know you
want to, even if it'ssubconsciously, you want to make
that emotional connection withpeople.
Yeah, yeah, and I think youknow especially the legal
industry, for for many years,has been very focused on look at
the things that I've done, lookat how great I am, look at the
(08:50):
results that I've gotten.
And we're in a place right now,I think, where people care more
about what you can do for themtoday more than what you've done
for other people in the past.
Yes, now I know what you're now.
That obviously raises a question.
It's like well, how, how do Iconvince people that I'm the
person they should work with ifI can't lean on that past
(09:11):
experience?
It's all about how you presentthat you know, so that that kind
of lends to the other side ofit and all of the credibility
and all of that.
You know you have a book likethat, yep, and that book is full
of content, full of examplesand ways to demonstrate the
knowledge that you have.
(09:32):
Yes, and so, in order to makethat connection with people,
other ways you can do it arethrough, you know consistent
blog articles or videos.
You know videos really, reallybig right now, especially if
you're doing a lot on socialmedia Instagram, tiktok,
facebook, linkedin, all thatkind of stuff where you're just
demonstrating that you know howto navigate the wide variety of
(09:57):
issues that people deal with inyour industry.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Yeah, and in a great way.
I mean, the thing I obviouslylove about creating a block is
now with if William smart, rightwhich is, or somebody's working
with you, you have seven oreight or nine chapters that then
you could take each one ofthose, you could do a video of
it.
You could take that video, spinoff the audio.
(10:21):
Now you've got a podcast, takethe spin off and you use that
over and over because it'sreally evergreen content and I
know you're the way you all domarketing and blogs and
everything.
It just fits in there.
But every time you do one ofthose, you're saying you know
what in chapter three of my book, and it just plants the seed
that you're an expert, becausein our culture experts have
(10:44):
books, but you don't just saywell, I just published a book.
Look at me, I'm not.
No, it's how do you engage youraudience and give them that,
that information?
And I know you guys are greatat that.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Yeah, and you talk, you talk about the content
multiplication aspect of it.
Yeah, and that's it.
And that's a great, greatexample that you gave where you
can take one piece of what wecall pillar content.
It's just this one giant thing.
Whether it's a book, if youdon't have a book yet you can
even do even a short, like twominute, video of you answering a
(11:17):
common question what you know?
What sorts of things keep youraudience up at night?
What are they worried about themost?
You take a two minute video,just pull out your phone, answer
the question.
All right, that's a piece ofpillar content.
You can rip the audio from it,like you said.
Now you can make a little minipodcast episode.
You can transcribe that audio,you can turn that into a blog
post.
You share that multiple timesacross social media and that's
(11:41):
important because you knowthere's no guarantee that
everyone who follows you isgoing to see every single post
you make.
And that's okay, that's right.
That's the nature of the beast,honestly, at this point, with
with all of the content goingaround.
But it makes your job easier.
You do not have to spend hoursupon hours upon hours making
unique content for all of thesedifferent platforms.
(12:03):
You can take one piece, splitit up a bunch of different ways
and throw it out there, and sothat two minute video you can
get two weeks or a month's worthof content out of it.
Yeah, just by spreading it out,you know, chipping it down and
and reposting and recycling itbecause, like you said, it's
evergreen, it's going to retainits value and the information
(12:24):
isn't going to be outdated,right, six, eight, 12 months
down the road.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
That's right, yeah, and I've seen a few attorneys
and financial advisors do areally good good job here is
they'll do a bunch of thoselittle videos, right, and
they'll do everything you talkedabout.
But then they also go to theirwebpage and they have like a
video tab on their webpage.
Sometimes it's on front pageand they have all of you know
they might have 12 differentvideos, and the reason that's
(12:48):
been really effective is, as youdo email marketing or something
.
Now you can always refer to anyof those and say, hey, check,
remember, I'm talking todayabout this, check out this short
video I did on it.
Click back to your website,click back.
Yeah, it's really, really a wayjust to keep people going back
and saying, wow, you always, youalways have something new to
(13:11):
say.
And oh, you're not alwaystrying to sell me or get me to
opt in.
No, I've.
I tell people, I mean that, yeah, there's a time for somebody to
opt into my list, yeah, butit's usually after I've built
some relationship and I've givensome things to them for free,
because I mean, I don't, we'vebeen bait and switched so many
(13:32):
times.
We're just so leery of a newthing, right, and I mean, in our
business.
I tell my clients, once you getyour book published, give it
away for free, mail it to the,to the people.
And they're like, I'm like, I'mnot free plus shipping thing.
I'm like, yeah, that's outthere, don't go there.
In my opinion, there is, thereis a place for that, but it's
not for you.
You want to mail your book outbecause, dude, when I get a book
(13:56):
in the mail and signed by theauthor, that's credible, yeah.
So there's just so many littlethings and I think business
owners see the shiny object,they see the guy doing that, and
I think business owners see theback end of that free plus
shipping thing, right, right, so, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Yeah, and so and I want to I want to take a step
back here for a second because,like you know why, why are we
talking about?
Why is this so important?
A few weeks ago, our owneractually got a chance to talk to
Gary Vaynerchuk for a fewminutes and if any of you are
not familiar with Gary, he'slike the one of the like biggest
(14:36):
Uber social media influencersout there in the world.
Like, once you like startfollowing him, you can't get
away from him.
He's like literally everywhere.
And you know we talked about,you know, content marketing in
general and we kind of stumbledupon this really enlightening
moment where a lot of people,especially in the legal industry
(14:58):
, financial industry, a lot offirms, focus their marketing on
going out and trying to findpeople, cold leads, trying to
build their audience and doingall of that, and Gary called it
hunting.
You're going out and hunting,and whether it's because you
don't, whether that's the onlykind of way you think about
(15:21):
marketing, or you literally justlike the thrill of the hunt,
you like that chase of goingafter people and building your
list.
There's another aspect of that,that of marketing, that people
miss and it's that.
It's what Gary called farming,it's that nurturing.
You go out, you spend a bunchof money to generate a bunch of
cold leads and then a bigmistake that a lot of firms make
(15:44):
is that once that lead gets intheir pipeline, nothing happens
or very few things happen.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
And you talked about.
You know.
You talked about how people arereally leery and all of that.
I mean there's a bunch ofstudies out there.
I've seen anywhere from likeyou've got to make somewhere
between like six and 18 touchpoints before people really
start to feel comfortableinteracting with your business.
And that's where I see a lot offirms failing is because
(16:12):
they're spending so much money.
And, by the way, there's otherstudies that say it's like five
times more expensive to generatecold leads than it is to sell
to your existing list.
But so many firms spend all oftheir marketing on generating
those cold leads that theirexisting audience is just kind
of left to kind of navigatetheir way on their own, and
(16:33):
especially in this day and age,that's not what you want to be
doing.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
At all.
No, I call that the.
Every business I talk to has adormant database.
Yeah, leads they've gotten, butit dude.
If you're not buying today, I'mgoing after the next guy.
And the problem is I call itthe 3% roller.
There's probably 3% or less ofpeople who are in the market
today right To buy whateveryou're selling.
Most people are stillresearching.
(16:56):
They're trying to get a feelfor you, right?
So, yes, there are some peopleready to buy today.
You should always have a call toaction and you should always
have scheduled a call, but Idon't think that should be the
primary thing on your website.
I think you should be givinginformation and saying you know
what this is a journey oh,here's another place I see
business.
Or so, when you opt in, tellyour prospect kind of what the
(17:19):
journey is going to be about.
Right, here's what you're goingto experience.
We're going to have some videosfor you.
We're going to have this.
You can always reach out to usand schedule a call, but we want
to be here when you're ready.
And what I found one of theprinciples I really try to live
by is I want to win the heart ofmy prospect and I want to be
there consistently, so that whenthey are ready, I'm the first
(17:43):
one they think of and the onethey feel the best about.
They're going to choose me moretimes than not.
That takes patience, but it'sthe right way to market.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Yeah, and talk about all kinds of data, especially
like if you're in an industrythat thrives on referrals which
legal industry, finance industry, for sure, really most
professional services.
I think I reference this studya lot and I promise I'm going
somewhere with this.
Texas Tech a few years ago dida study said like 80% of your
(18:22):
audience is willing to referbusiness to you, but only 30%
actually do.
Now that means regardless ofyour current standing, because I
know I've talked to a lot oflaw firm owners that say, well,
100% of my business comes fromreferrals, I don't need
marketing.
I mean, that may be true, the100% part, but you still have
(18:43):
the capacity to double at leastthe amount of referrals that
you're getting and you're stillnot maxing out.
So why does that happen?
For the reasons that we justtalked about is you get all of
these people.
They're dormant now and you'renot staying in touch, and so if
(19:03):
someone ends up going to anotherfirm, it's not because they
charge less or they have moreexperience.
They just did a better job ofstaying in touch than you did
Absolutely.
And so anytime you get a leadin your system, there should be
a marketing ecosystem in placethat makes a lot of touch points
(19:25):
, that nurtures them along theway, that eventually warms them
up and eventually gets them toconvert.
And maybe and one of the thingsthat I think a lot of people
don't think about is maybe theysay no.
Maybe they say no, you're notthe right fit for me.
Or maybe, no, not right now.
But that doesn't mean they'relost for good.
That's right.
You don't know who they know,and if you keep them in your
(19:49):
system, you can tap into othernetworks along the way, and so
they can still become a sourceof business for you, even if
you're not the right fit forthem in that moment.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
That's right and it's so important because even
business owners change.
So we run coaching programs aswell.
I've got a guy in my coachingprogram who did a pre-need
funeral planning with funeralhomes and, as he did that for a
number of years, built deeprelationships of trust with
people.
Well, now he's taking that andhe's adding to it some financial
(20:19):
planning components for retail.
He's like it's just a naturalcomponent.
But how do I get my audience,who knows me as a funeral
planner guy, to understand thatI can help them here?
So that was the struggle he washaving.
It's really not a big jump, butit's a messaging jump.
Wow, you've got this built-indata.
You probably don't need to do abunch of out external marketing
(20:41):
right now.
You need to educate yourcurrent database because, you're
right, every person you know inyour database knows probably 20
people, maybe 25, 50.
How do you get them to starttalking about you?
Well, that's one reason I lovebooks, because it's a lot easier
for somebody to hand a book tosomebody.
But even if you don't have that, it's educating them to say,
(21:03):
wow, referrals are huge andeverybody's like, well, my
business is built on referrals.
You just said you couldprobably double your business.
Most people can, but we haven'tbeen taught how to really ask
for referrals and we do it in away that usually puts our
clientele in an awkward positionand it's not comfortable.
(21:27):
So there are ways to do it.
So it's fun for them and areferral you know as well as I
do A referral is probably youreasiest sale because the trust
and the credibility is comingfrom a third party who says, ok,
wow, john, I heard fromsomebody, you're the guy and can
you help me that deal.
Let's focus on that.
But that's back in right.
(21:47):
That's not new leads, which isthe myth that I always share,
because I need more leads, doyou really?
Or how are you nurturing theleads you have and I know it's
spotlight, brandon, you guys doa phenomenal job of that.
Nurture that long tail to stayin front.
Top of mind awareness let'stalk about that a bit.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Yeah, so, and it's you know.
We talked about the contentmultiplication side of it.
I gave the video example.
It's that easy, like you don'thave to do a whole lot.
You know, I've seen, you knowsome of our, you know our
clients.
All they do is a blog and anewsletter and that's a month.
Just one blog a month, oneemail newsletter a month.
(22:31):
That blog is part of the emailnewsletter.
It's all part of the biggerstrategy and every time they
send that email newsletter out,they get multiple referrals,
multiple requests for businessOne of the things they hear a
lot.
They'll send an email out.
Maybe they're blog, you know,maybe they're an estate planning
lawyer, maybe they helpedsomeone draft up their last will
and testament, and they'll senda blog out talking about a
(22:52):
specific kind of trust that theyoften help people with.
They will get emails backsaying, wow, I didn't know you
did that, which is, on one hand,that's a scary thing for a
business owner to hear, right,but this is the way you reduce
that from happening is you'recommunicating the way, the
different ways that you can helppeople and how you are able to
(23:16):
do it.
And so you know, even just thatalone is a huge step and I mean
I highly recommend you don'teven have to hire SpotLibrating.
You can do this yourself orhire another company to do it.
But I think every single lawfirm, every single financial
firm, should be doing an emailnewsletter every single month
and in that newsletter youshould have at least one article
(23:37):
addressing a common pain pointwith your audience, because that
is a huge way.
That is one of the biggestdrivers of referrals and repeat
business.
Right, and everyone, everysingle person on your list
should be getting it right yourfamily, your friends, people who
are in your industry, currentclients, past clients, leads
(23:58):
everybody should be getting atleast that?
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Yep, absolutely, and I can see it and doing that it's
really not hard, right, youtemplatize it.
I've got one section here thatsays you know what's new, or
pain points or something, andyou just fill in the blank and
pretty soon you've got all thiscontent that goes out.
It's in your newsletter everymonth.
Guess what?
Now you've got emails, you'vegot blogs, you've got everything
(24:23):
right there.
But here's the deal businessowners are busy and most of them
are not educated in marketing.
Right, and that's you and I.
We talk with business owners allday, every day.
They're experts at what they doand that's why I love Spotlight
, brandy, because you can takean attorney or financial advisor
and say, okay, where are youwanting to go?
(24:44):
Got it, we can help you.
We'll do all the kind of thebacking, we'll teach you.
You're still gonna create someof the content and things,
because that's just the best wayto do it, but we're gonna take
care of a lot of it and we'regonna have you mentioned a word
earlier that I love is strategy.
Yeah, you're not chasing shinyobjects all the time, and that's
really where business ownerswaste time, effort, money,
(25:06):
energy.
They get frustrated because allthose things many of them just
don't work like they're promised, and that's why, when you take
a long-term approach to it, likeyou guys do and like we do, is
it just works better over time?
Yeah, and it's.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Yeah, I apologize.
There's a guy who decided tostart as leaf blower right
outside my window because hefound out I was doing a webinar.
So like if that's comingthrough on the audio, I
apologize.
I don't know Good thismicrophone is doing a job, but
yeah, and so there are smallthings like that you can do, and
it doesn't all have to bedigital.
(25:42):
I know you do a couple ofthings with the people that you
interact with and I want you totalk about a couple of those
things, because I think you havea couple of really good ideas
with just some of the thingsthat you do to just create some
nice warm, fuzzy feelings andeven just to say thank you, and
there's not even like a blatantreferral ask in these things,
(26:06):
it's just, hey, thanks forwhatever thing that you did.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Yep, that's great.
So I'm big on systems andanybody who works with me or we
deliver systems and everything Iteach we do in our business.
Okay, one of our systems is athank you system, john, I think
most people don't say thank youenough, so I've built a four
step system.
So when I do a podcast withsomebody, when I have a prospect
, whatever it is, I thank you.
(26:31):
On Zoom, we hang up.
I go to Loom L-O-O-M, which isa little video thing.
There are lots of them out, butI use Loom and I record a short
.
Loom says John, thanks so muchfor the time we had to get on.
I'm really excited about ournext conversation.
Hope you have a great day.
Thanks, boom, and I emailedthat to you.
How many video emails do youget a day?
So that's, it's really personal.
(26:53):
But then I also created thethank you cards, right, and
they're branded with me on theback and you open it up and it's
I actually write our handwriter thank you, and I put a
stamp on it and I put it in themail to you.
And so after our conversation,you get a thank you through Loom
, you get this in the mail andthen many times, if you're all
like on my podcast.
You've gotten this, I think.
(27:13):
I send a box to you and you geta box like this in the mailbox,
right, your physical mailbox.
Do you think you're gonna openthat?
John Say, yeah, absolutely.
So you open this and lookthere's a note inside of it that
connects to whatever is in here.
And now it's an experience.
This is one reason I do this.
(27:34):
You dig through here and thisone has oh gosh, I don't know.
Oh, these are, these are myfavorite Chocolate covered
espresso beans, because in thenote I was writing to espresso
my thanks for being on mypodcast, right?
So I connect the dots, butwe've given up the experience.
So this is my thank you process.
(27:54):
What's the difference, john,between Six Flags and Disney?
They're both amusement parks.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Yeah, Disney, attention to detail.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Attention to detail and the experience that you're
going to have, the memories thatare being made.
People come back from Disney.
They're telling everybody thatis why you pay $200 or $300 a
day to be in Disney right In 68,whatever.
So that thank you process isone thing that we've done to
really differentiate ourselvesand it's probably one of the
(28:26):
best marketing things we've everdone, because I get text over
the weekend.
I get emails from people goinghey, thanks for this.
My kids and wife love this.
Now, in addition to food, wesend pens to our authors.
We send cutting boards.
Now, really, this does not haveany of my branding on it,
because it's not about me.
(28:46):
I'm trying to be a householdword in your life and so I've
found ways to do that.
We also do you mentionedelectronic newsletters every
month.
Those are phenomenal.
I'm a big fan of, in addition,print newsletter, whether it's
monthly, quarterly, because allright.
Here's my challenge to mostpeople Walk to your mailbox
(29:08):
today, open it up and count howmuch stuff is in it.
If you're like me, there's liketwo or three pieces of mail is.
This is a great time to dodirect mail the right way, and
when you coordinate direct mailwith online and the two connect.
I mean you do your emailnewsletter and you say, hey,
check your mailbox in a coupleof days, take our newsletter.
(29:31):
Somebody says, well, why do Iwant to do that?
Because they just got my email,cause they have friends Hand
that off to somebody you mightknow.
There's just so many ways to dosimple things like gifting.
Yeah, okay, thank you.
Nobody does that, nobody.
All right, there are companiesout there who will write these
(29:53):
for you.
Those are okay, but I've gottenthem.
You know what?
I know?
A computer wrote that theydon't write like I do.
I write sloppy, I'm sorry.
So I created a thank you thatwe mail.
Then, when they become a client, I created a welcome Welcome to
our paperback expert family.
(30:13):
We want to treat you likefamily, right?
And it's just another touchpoint that I don't know how many
people do that, but my clientstell me they don't get anybody
else doing it to them, right, soright.
And how much does this cost?
Not much, it's the strategy,right, it's.
(30:34):
How do you be different fromeverybody else to build that
credibility to say I like thisguy, I now own your heart, and
when I own your heart, I'm goingto get your business and that
of your friends, neighbors,relative, business associates,
church members and club members,it doesn't matter.
That's how you build a businesslongterm.
(30:55):
It's not rocket science and itdoesn't take tens of thousands
of dollars on Facebook or Googleads or anything like that.
It's approaching it a differentway and really positioning
yourself, not as a needy hunter.
I have to have the sale today.
No, I don't.
I'm happy to be here.
I'm going to need business,john, in three years as much as
(31:18):
I need it today.
I'm okay.
If this is not the right timefor you, I'm okay with that.
Let's just have a conversation.
People love that.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Yeah, it's changing that sort of narrative between
I'm here in hopes that you giveme money to I'm just here, I'm
just here, I'm here for whateveryou need Totally.
And because people don't liketo be sold too, they don't like
to feel like you're just moneyhunting and all of that.
And so one last thing that Iwanted to talk about before we
(31:51):
wrap up here.
So we've talked about just kindof small things you can do, the
touch points that you can maketo make sure that everyone's
being nurtured and that you'renot just bringing in a bunch of
people and then ignoring them.
But now let's talk about someof the bigger pillar pieces that
you can do to leverage yourexpertise to really stand out.
(32:12):
On our side, obviously, wehandle the digital side of
things.
So right now, podcasting ishuge.
Podcasting as a medium, as aconsumable sort of item, is
really blowing up right now, andthe nice thing about it, as
(32:34):
compared to maybe, a blog or avideo, is that people can
consume podcasts while they'redoing other things, while
they're driving to work, whilethey are working out at the gym,
doing yard work, whatever thecase is.
And it's also a little bit morelong, for I know especially
lawyers.
(32:54):
You wanna dive deep intoeverything and cover every
single, if then possiblescenario that you can.
You can't do that on a blog.
No one's gonna read that entireblog.
A video people might listen tothe audio, which, if you're
doing that on Video Finders, ripthe Audio.
There's your podcast episode.
But podcasts you can dive deep,you can expound on a topic for
(33:15):
20, 30, 40 minutes at a time andpeople will consume that.
And so it's also kind of like abook, where people see a podcast
as, oh, that's a big deal.
Right, they still see it asakin to having your own talk
radio show.
Back.
Talk radio is still a thing,obviously, with satellite radio,
(33:37):
streaming, spotify, all thatnot as prominent as it was, but
it's still that same sort ofthing.
And so you tell people you havea podcast.
You're showing up on Applepodcasts, you're showing up
right there next to the JoeRogans of the world and all of
that.
That looks like a big deal.
It is, and people are gonnastop and listen and so.
(33:58):
But then also, like you said,you have the book.
So I mean like, why is a bookimportant if you wanna just wrap
up on that?
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Yeah, well, a book establishes you in the mind as
an expert and again, in ourculture, experts have books.
Right, you're an expert at whatyou do, but the problem is you
look just like everybody else.
You're a coffee bean.
As I say, you pour out coffeebeans.
They all look the same andsmell the same.
If you look like and sound likeall your competitors, you're
giving me no reason to chooseyou.
But when you have a book, sohere's a financial advisor.
(34:30):
We did a book, for herbackground was gambling.
I mean her parents back downwhen she grew up.
They'd fly to Vegas and winlots of money and then
everything was great.
Fly to Vegas A month later.
They'd lose a bunch of money.
Well, she's a financial advisornow.
So we created her brand arounddon't gamble with your
retirement yeah, that's in herbook.
So she talks about that.
(34:50):
Well, her podcast that wehelped her create has the same
name and so now she can talkabout on her podcast all of her
strategies.
And for a business owner,understand, it's not only the
fact that you have a podcast,which is a platform, a
credibility platform, it's thefact that they can get to know
(35:11):
you because they can hear you.
You can't really hear me.
Through a book you can get toknow me, but now I got your
podcast.
Ooh, now I know what's thevideo of that, right?
And a podcast here's for us howwe teach our clients that it's
less about how many downloadsyou're getting and it's more
(35:32):
about the relationships you'rebuilding with your listeners,
but also with other people.
So if you're an attorney andyou have your podcast, you
should be interviewing otherpeople that your audience would
want to hear from, and thoseother people are going to become
referral sources for you aswell.
So you use your podcast.
(35:54):
We call it a profitable podcastbecause it should be, but it's a
credibility platform.
So when somebody comes to yourwebsite now, they see that you
have your own book and your ownpodcast and your own video show
which is your podcast, reallyright?
And then they're like God, thisperson is really all over the
place and what happens is, asyou communicate, you're building
(36:16):
the relationship, you're givingthem the information.
And oh, by the way, if you ever, john, need to have a
conversation with me, just getto like a 15 minute column,
happy to answer any question youhave about your unique
situation, to see if we could beof help, and if I can't help
you, I have an entire network ofpeople I'd be happy to connect
(36:36):
you with.
Okay, that's how we approachbusiness.
You start putting that messageout and I assure you you're
gonna start gravitating lots ofpeople towards you because it's
a different message that's trulyat the heart of most people
living so.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Thanks for listening.
This is Center Stage putting your firm in the
spotlight by highlightingbusiness owners and other
industry experts to help takeyour firm to the next level.
Hey everyone, and welcome toCenter Stage.
I'm your host, john Henson, intoday's episode.
A little bit different thanwhat you're probably used to.
Today's episode is actually apresentation that I did with a
(00:35):
former Center Stage guest,michael DeLon from Paperback
Expert.
We talked a lot about theimportance of authority building
, credibility building, why youwould do that, and we provide
some different ways for you todo that.
This episode well, thispresentation really kind of a
few months old but still a tonof value in there and I really
(00:56):
hope you do stick around andcheck it out.
Also, go check out what Michaelis doing over at Paperback
Expert.
He does book publishing.
So if you've ever wanted topublish a book for your firm
I've published a lot of booksfor myself.
It's a really fun process, atleast to me, but they can take a
lot of that work off of yourplate and really help you have
(01:17):
just a really core piece ofcredibility and authority in
your practice area.
So go over toPaperbackExpertcom and check out
all of the things that theywill be doing.
And, yeah, I wanted to put thisepisode out there because I
really thought there was a tonof good information.
Also, I'm out on paternityright now, so I thought this
(01:40):
would be a great place to throwthat in, but we'll be back next
week with another live episode.
Thanks so much.
We're talking about theimportance of credibility in
your marketing.
We were talking, I think, alittle bit off air maybe, like
right when we first jumped on,just about how important
credibility is becoming.
I think we're kind of seeing ashift now.
(02:02):
Maybe 10 years ago it wasreally just all about search
rankings and just how manykeywords can you stuff in your
website and overall, and justrankings this and rankings that.
Now we're kind of seeing moreof a shift towards quality
content.
But you can't have qualitycontent if people don't trust
(02:23):
you, and those are the kind ofpeople that want to work with
you.
It's the wholeno-like-and-trust sort of thing
that we've been hearing foryears.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Right, yeah, and it's taking that really to the next
level, I think, because, as Itell people no-like-and-trust we
all know that I'm really tiredof that phrase, we all get it.
I think credibility, honestlyit takes it to the next level
down and I'll talk about that alittle bit later.
But I term credibility asreally the level of confidence
that somebody has in you.
(02:51):
I mean no-like-and-trust you,am I really confident and do I
have that connection with you?
That's how I seek credibilityreally making a difference in
business.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yeah, so, yeah.
So, before we jump in on that,for those of you who don't know
who I am, I'm John Henson.
I'm the editorial director hereat Spotlight Branding, which
means I just sit around all day,I write blogs, I do podcasts, I
do things like this, and I getto just make all kinds of
content, because that's what wedo here at Spotlight Branding.
We work with lawyers, financialpros, providing content
(03:27):
marketing services.
So your blogs, videos, socialmedia, emails, all that kind of
good stuff and with the goal ofhelping you increase referrals
but also making you look likethe credible expert.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Yeah, absolutely, and we'll talk later about that and
how you help people nurtureleads, because that is such an
important part that a lot ofbusiness owners miss, so
definitely want to come back tothat.
I'm Michael DeLon.
I'm president and founder ofPaperback Expert.
We help business owners createa book without writing a word,
to establish your credibility inthe eyes of your audience, and
(04:04):
then we teach you how to usethat credibility and that
authority positioning to convertprospects into clients and
clients into referrals to growyour business.
So John and I have connected.
We've both been on each other'spodcasts.
Our companies do a lot togetherand we want to do more, and
this was just this is somethingwe decided to do to say how do
(04:24):
we build a dialogue, how do weshare some information that's
really practical, helpful.
So our hope is that you'llleave today with something you
can actually apply and wedefinitely want to answer your
questions.
So in the chat, just if you'vegot a question, put the letter Q
with a dash and then type outyour question at the end.
We're going to go through that.
We're going to answer yourquestions.
We're here to help.
(04:45):
So we're going to let John kickthis whole thing off, talking
about credibility and why it'simportant and how.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Yeah, yeah.
So you know, we kind of touchedon it at the start.
You know, people were in an eraright now where people want to
work with the expert.
You know, like I use thisanalogy a lot, like, if you've
got to go get heart surgery,you're not going to just go to
some doctor who's a generalpractitioner, right, you're
going to do your research,you're going to seek out the
(05:16):
best heart surgeon, the heartspecialist that you can find,
and so you know why, why, why isthat important?
How are you going to?
How are you?
First of all, how are you, asin this case, as a heart
specialist?
And in your case you know,whatever you're doing, you're a
business lawyer, you're a CPA, afinancial advisor, family law
(05:37):
attorney, whatever it is how doyou then communicate that to
your audience that, hey, I'm thespecialist that you should be
working with?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Yeah, absolutely.
And there's so many ways to doit, because one of the things
about credibility and aboutmarketing is we've got to cut
through the clutter is what Itell people.
There's just so much noise outthere and how is somebody going
to choose an attorney?
Let's say, let's just campthere.
So we've worked with a lot ofpersonal injury attorneys and
(06:06):
that's a really crowded market,very competitive, and if I asked
you, john, I won't put you onthe spot.
But if I asked you, what's atypical billboard for a personal
injury attorney?
Look like or say, right, well,you know, right, I just want $80
million with and that's whatthey all say and that's okay.
But I don't really think that'sthe message that a lot of
(06:27):
people want.
And so we worked with one andI'm going to give some examples
through this whole thing becauseI think the examples really
help it.
So I've got a client down inFlorida, very competitive market
personal injury attorney.
He's a small guy against twobig gorillas.
Okay, these guys are spending.
The other guys are spendinglike a half a million a month in
marketing and he's like I don'thave that.
(06:49):
We got his story and this playsinto credibility.
We got his story.
He was a baseball player goinginto college.
He was a pitcher through hisarm out in like his third year,
ruined his pro career, got rehab, got surgery, went through all
of that.
Came out of college, ended upbecoming a personal injury
attorney.
Now he helps people who youknow.
(07:10):
Life throws them a curveball,they get hit and when we found
this story we said no, wait aminute, william, let's tell your
story.
I said have you ever toldanybody that that whole baseball
thing he's like?
No, we're going to.
So we created this brand for himand created his book is called
when Life Throws you a Curveballwhat to do after you've been in
(07:32):
a serious accident, by WilliamFranke, a baseball player turned
attorney.
We did that on purpose becauseit's a way for him to compete
against the big guys who aresaying we just want an $18
million case.
You know what I care, but Idon't care.
What I want to know is can yourelate to me?
And he has been through theprocess that his clients are
(07:57):
going through?
Because when you get hit by abig truck or a dog bites you,
you slip and fall.
Life just threw you a curveballand now you've got to get rehab
.
You've got to go through.
He's been there and when heconnects that at the heart level
, people connect with him andthey trust him because he's got
credibility in their eyes,because he's been there.
(08:18):
That's what I'm talking aboutwhen I talk credibility.
It's your story and how do youconnect that?
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Yeah, yeah, and to me , I think there's two aspects of
it.
One is certainly that thatstory side of it, you know you
want to, even if it'ssubconsciously, you want to make
that emotional connection withpeople.
Yeah, yeah, and I think youknow especially the legal
industry, for for many years,has been very focused on look at
the things that I've done, lookat how great I am, look at the
(08:50):
results that I've gotten.
And we're in a place right now,I think, where people care more
about what you can do for themtoday more than what you've done
for other people in the past.
Yes, now I know what you're now.
That obviously raises a question.
It's like well, how, how do Iconvince people that I'm the
person they should work with ifI can't lean on that past
(09:11):
experience?
It's all about how you presentthat you know, so that that kind
of lends to the other side ofit and all of the credibility
and all of that.
You know you have a book likethat, yep, and that book is full
of content, full of examplesand ways to demonstrate the
knowledge that you have.
(09:32):
Yes, and so, in order to makethat connection with people,
other ways you can do it arethrough, you know consistent
blog articles or videos.
You know videos really, reallybig right now, especially if
you're doing a lot on socialmedia Instagram, tiktok,
facebook, linkedin, all thatkind of stuff where you're just
demonstrating that you know howto navigate the wide variety of
(09:57):
issues that people deal with inyour industry.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Yeah, and in a great way.
I mean, the thing I obviouslylove about creating a block is
now with if William smart, rightwhich is, or somebody's working
with you, you have seven oreight or nine chapters that then
you could take each one ofthose, you could do a video of
it.
You could take that video, spinoff the audio.
(10:21):
Now you've got a podcast, takethe spin off and you use that
over and over because it'sreally evergreen content and I
know you're the way you all domarketing and blogs and
everything.
It just fits in there.
But every time you do one ofthose, you're saying you know
what in chapter three of my book, and it just plants the seed
that you're an expert, becausein our culture experts have
(10:44):
books, but you don't just saywell, I just published a book.
Look at me, I'm not.
No, it's how do you engage youraudience and give them that,
that information?
And I know you guys are greatat that.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Yeah, and you talk, you talk about the content
multiplication aspect of it.
Yeah, and that's it.
And that's a great, greatexample that you gave where you
can take one piece of what wecall pillar content.
It's just this one giant thing.
Whether it's a book, if youdon't have a book yet you can
even do even a short, like twominute, video of you answering a
(11:17):
common question what you know?
What sorts of things keep youraudience up at night?
What are they worried about themost?
You take a two minute video,just pull out your phone, answer
the question.
All right, that's a piece ofpillar content.
You can rip the audio from it,like you said.
Now you can make a little minipodcast episode.
You can transcribe that audio,you can turn that into a blog
post.
You share that multiple timesacross social media and that's
(11:41):
important because you knowthere's no guarantee that
everyone who follows you isgoing to see every single post
you make.
And that's okay, that's right.
That's the nature of the beast,honestly, at this point, with
with all of the content goingaround.
But it makes your job easier.
You do not have to spend hoursupon hours upon hours making
unique content for all of thesedifferent platforms.
(12:03):
You can take one piece, splitit up a bunch of different ways
and throw it out there, and sothat two minute video you can
get two weeks or a month's worthof content out of it.
Yeah, just by spreading it out,you know, chipping it down and
and reposting and recycling itbecause, like you said, it's
evergreen, it's going to retainits value and the information
(12:24):
isn't going to be outdated,right, six, eight, 12 months
down the road.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
That's right, yeah, and I've seen a few attorneys
and financial advisors do areally good good job here is
they'll do a bunch of thoselittle videos, right, and
they'll do everything you talkedabout.
But then they also go to theirwebpage and they have like a
video tab on their webpage.
Sometimes it's on front pageand they have all of you know
they might have 12 differentvideos, and the reason that's
(12:48):
been really effective is, as youdo email marketing or something
.
Now you can always refer to anyof those and say, hey, check,
remember, I'm talking todayabout this, check out this short
video I did on it.
Click back to your website,click back.
Yeah, it's really, really a wayjust to keep people going back
and saying, wow, you always, youalways have something new to
(13:11):
say.
And oh, you're not alwaystrying to sell me or get me to
opt in.
No, I've.
I tell people, I mean that, yeah, there's a time for somebody to
opt into my list, yeah, butit's usually after I've built
some relationship and I've givensome things to them for free,
because I mean, I don't, we'vebeen bait and switched so many
(13:32):
times.
We're just so leery of a newthing, right, and I mean, in our
business.
I tell my clients, once you getyour book published, give it
away for free, mail it to the,to the people.
And they're like, I'm like, I'mnot free plus shipping thing.
I'm like, yeah, that's outthere, don't go there.
In my opinion, there is, thereis a place for that, but it's
not for you.
You want to mail your book outbecause, dude, when I get a book
(13:56):
in the mail and signed by theauthor, that's credible, yeah.
So there's just so many littlethings and I think business
owners see the shiny object,they see the guy doing that, and
I think business owners see theback end of that free plus
shipping thing, right, right, so, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Yeah, and so and I want to I want to take a step
back here for a second because,like you know why, why are we
talking about?
Why is this so important?
A few weeks ago, our owneractually got a chance to talk to
Gary Vaynerchuk for a fewminutes and if any of you are
not familiar with Gary, he'slike the one of the like biggest
(14:36):
Uber social media influencersout there in the world.
Like, once you like startfollowing him, you can't get
away from him.
He's like literally everywhere.
And you know we talked about,you know, content marketing in
general and we kind of stumbledupon this really enlightening
moment where a lot of people,especially in the legal industry
(14:58):
, financial industry, a lot offirms, focus their marketing on
going out and trying to findpeople, cold leads, trying to
build their audience and doingall of that, and Gary called it
hunting.
You're going out and hunting,and whether it's because you
don't, whether that's the onlykind of way you think about
(15:21):
marketing, or you literally justlike the thrill of the hunt,
you like that chase of goingafter people and building your
list.
There's another aspect of that,that of marketing, that people
miss and it's that.
It's what Gary called farming,it's that nurturing.
You go out, you spend a bunchof money to generate a bunch of
cold leads and then a bigmistake that a lot of firms make
(15:44):
is that once that lead gets intheir pipeline, nothing happens
or very few things happen.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
And you talked about.
You know.
You talked about how people arereally leery and all of that.
I mean there's a bunch ofstudies out there.
I've seen anywhere from likeyou've got to make somewhere
between like six and 18 touchpoints before people really
start to feel comfortableinteracting with your business.
And that's where I see a lot offirms failing is because
(16:12):
they're spending so much money.
And, by the way, there's otherstudies that say it's like five
times more expensive to generatecold leads than it is to sell
to your existing list.
But so many firms spend all oftheir marketing on generating
those cold leads that theirexisting audience is just kind
of left to kind of navigatetheir way on their own, and
(16:33):
especially in this day and age,that's not what you want to be
doing.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
At all.
No, I call that the.
Every business I talk to has adormant database.
Yeah, leads they've gotten, butit dude.
If you're not buying today, I'mgoing after the next guy.
And the problem is I call itthe 3% roller.
There's probably 3% or less ofpeople who are in the market
today right To buy whateveryou're selling.
Most people are stillresearching.
(16:56):
They're trying to get a feelfor you, right?
So, yes, there are some peopleready to buy today.
You should always have a call toaction and you should always
have scheduled a call, but Idon't think that should be the
primary thing on your website.
I think you should be givinginformation and saying you know
what this is a journey oh,here's another place I see
business.
Or so, when you opt in, tellyour prospect kind of what the
(17:19):
journey is going to be about.
Right, here's what you're goingto experience.
We're going to have some videosfor you.
We're going to have this.
You can always reach out to usand schedule a call, but we want
to be here when you're ready.
And what I found one of theprinciples I really try to live
by is I want to win the heart ofmy prospect and I want to be
there consistently, so that whenthey are ready, I'm the first
(17:43):
one they think of and the onethey feel the best about.
They're going to choose me moretimes than not.
That takes patience, but it'sthe right way to market.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Yeah, and talk about all kinds of data, especially
like if you're in an industrythat thrives on referrals which
legal industry, finance industry, for sure, really most
professional services.
I think I reference this studya lot and I promise I'm going
somewhere with this.
Texas Tech a few years ago dida study said like 80% of your
(18:22):
audience is willing to referbusiness to you, but only 30%
actually do.
Now that means regardless ofyour current standing, because I
know I've talked to a lot oflaw firm owners that say, well,
100% of my business comes fromreferrals, I don't need
marketing.
I mean, that may be true, the100% part, but you still have
(18:43):
the capacity to double at leastthe amount of referrals that
you're getting and you're stillnot maxing out.
So why does that happen?
For the reasons that we justtalked about is you get all of
these people.
They're dormant now and you'renot staying in touch, and so if
(19:03):
someone ends up going to anotherfirm, it's not because they
charge less or they have moreexperience.
They just did a better job ofstaying in touch than you did
Absolutely.
And so anytime you get a leadin your system, there should be
a marketing ecosystem in placethat makes a lot of touch points
(19:25):
, that nurtures them along theway, that eventually warms them
up and eventually gets them toconvert.
And maybe and one of the thingsthat I think a lot of people
don't think about is maybe theysay no.
Maybe they say no, you're notthe right fit for me.
Or maybe, no, not right now.
But that doesn't mean they'relost for good.
That's right.
You don't know who they know,and if you keep them in your
(19:49):
system, you can tap into othernetworks along the way, and so
they can still become a sourceof business for you, even if
you're not the right fit forthem in that moment.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
That's right and it's so important because even
business owners change.
So we run coaching programs aswell.
I've got a guy in my coachingprogram who did a pre-need
funeral planning with funeralhomes and, as he did that for a
number of years, built deeprelationships of trust with
people.
Well, now he's taking that andhe's adding to it some financial
(20:19):
planning components for retail.
He's like it's just a naturalcomponent.
But how do I get my audience,who knows me as a funeral
planner guy, to understand thatI can help them here?
So that was the struggle he washaving.
It's really not a big jump, butit's a messaging jump.
Wow, you've got this built-indata.
You probably don't need to do abunch of out external marketing
(20:41):
right now.
You need to educate yourcurrent database because, you're
right, every person you know inyour database knows probably 20
people, maybe 25, 50.
How do you get them to starttalking about you?
Well, that's one reason I lovebooks, because it's a lot easier
for somebody to hand a book tosomebody.
But even if you don't have that, it's educating them to say,
(21:03):
wow, referrals are huge andeverybody's like, well, my
business is built on referrals.
You just said you couldprobably double your business.
Most people can, but we haven'tbeen taught how to really ask
for referrals and we do it in away that usually puts our
clientele in an awkward positionand it's not comfortable.
(21:27):
So there are ways to do it.
So it's fun for them and areferral you know as well as I
do A referral is probably youreasiest sale because the trust
and the credibility is comingfrom a third party who says, ok,
wow, john, I heard fromsomebody, you're the guy and can
you help me that deal.
Let's focus on that.
But that's back in right.
(21:47):
That's not new leads, which isthe myth that I always share,
because I need more leads, doyou really?
Or how are you nurturing theleads you have and I know it's
spotlight, brandon, you guys doa phenomenal job of that.
Nurture that long tail to stayin front.
Top of mind awareness let'stalk about that a bit.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Yeah, so, and it's you know.
We talked about the contentmultiplication side of it.
I gave the video example.
It's that easy, like you don'thave to do a whole lot.
You know, I've seen, you knowsome of our, you know our
clients.
All they do is a blog and anewsletter and that's a month.
Just one blog a month, oneemail newsletter a month.
(22:31):
That blog is part of the emailnewsletter.
It's all part of the biggerstrategy and every time they
send that email newsletter out,they get multiple referrals,
multiple requests for businessOne of the things they hear a
lot.
They'll send an email out.
Maybe they're blog, you know,maybe they're an estate planning
lawyer, maybe they helpedsomeone draft up their last will
and testament, and they'll senda blog out talking about a
(22:52):
specific kind of trust that theyoften help people with.
They will get emails backsaying, wow, I didn't know you
did that, which is, on one hand,that's a scary thing for a
business owner to hear, right,but this is the way you reduce
that from happening is you'recommunicating the way, the
different ways that you can helppeople and how you are able to
(23:16):
do it.
And so you know, even just thatalone is a huge step and I mean
I highly recommend you don'teven have to hire SpotLibrating.
You can do this yourself orhire another company to do it.
But I think every single lawfirm, every single financial
firm, should be doing an emailnewsletter every single month
and in that newsletter youshould have at least one article
(23:37):
addressing a common pain pointwith your audience, because that
is a huge way.
That is one of the biggestdrivers of referrals and repeat
business.
Right, and everyone, everysingle person on your list
should be getting it right yourfamily, your friends, people who
are in your industry, currentclients, past clients, leads
(23:58):
everybody should be getting atleast that?
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Yep, absolutely, and I can see it and doing that it's
really not hard, right, youtemplatize it.
I've got one section here thatsays you know what's new, or
pain points or something, andyou just fill in the blank and
pretty soon you've got all thiscontent that goes out.
It's in your newsletter everymonth.
Guess what?
Now you've got emails, you'vegot blogs, you've got everything
(24:23):
right there.
But here's the deal businessowners are busy and most of them
are not educated in marketing.
Right, and that's you and I.
We talk with business owners allday, every day.
They're experts at what they doand that's why I love Spotlight
, brandy, because you can takean attorney or financial advisor
and say, okay, where are youwanting to go?
(24:44):
Got it, we can help you.
We'll do all the kind of thebacking, we'll teach you.
You're still gonna create someof the content and things,
because that's just the best wayto do it, but we're gonna take
care of a lot of it and we'regonna have you mentioned a word
earlier that I love is strategy.
Yeah, you're not chasing shinyobjects all the time, and that's
really where business ownerswaste time, effort, money,
(25:06):
energy.
They get frustrated because allthose things many of them just
don't work like they're promised, and that's why, when you take
a long-term approach to it, likeyou guys do and like we do, is
it just works better over time?
Yeah, and it's.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Yeah, I apologize.
There's a guy who decided tostart as leaf blower right
outside my window because hefound out I was doing a webinar.
So like if that's comingthrough on the audio, I
apologize.
I don't know Good thismicrophone is doing a job, but
yeah, and so there are smallthings like that you can do, and
it doesn't all have to bedigital.
(25:42):
I know you do a couple ofthings with the people that you
interact with and I want you totalk about a couple of those
things, because I think you havea couple of really good ideas
with just some of the thingsthat you do to just create some
nice warm, fuzzy feelings andeven just to say thank you, and
there's not even like a blatantreferral ask in these things,
(26:06):
it's just, hey, thanks forwhatever thing that you did.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Yep, that's great.
So I'm big on systems andanybody who works with me or we
deliver systems and everything Iteach we do in our business.
Okay, one of our systems is athank you system, john, I think
most people don't say thank youenough, so I've built a four
step system.
So when I do a podcast withsomebody, when I have a prospect
, whatever it is, I thank you.
(26:31):
On Zoom, we hang up.
I go to Loom L-O-O-M, which isa little video thing.
There are lots of them out, butI use Loom and I record a short
.
Loom says John, thanks so muchfor the time we had to get on.
I'm really excited about ournext conversation.
Hope you have a great day.
Thanks, boom, and I emailedthat to you.
How many video emails do youget a day?
So that's, it's really personal.
(26:53):
But then I also created thethank you cards, right, and
they're branded with me on theback and you open it up and it's
I actually write our handwriter thank you, and I put a
stamp on it and I put it in themail to you.
And so after our conversation,you get a thank you through Loom
, you get this in the mail andthen many times, if you're all
like on my podcast.
You've gotten this, I think.
(27:13):
I send a box to you and you geta box like this in the mailbox,
right, your physical mailbox.
Do you think you're gonna openthat?
John Say, yeah, absolutely.
So you open this and lookthere's a note inside of it that
connects to whatever is in here.
And now it's an experience.
This is one reason I do this.
(27:34):
You dig through here and thisone has oh gosh, I don't know.
Oh, these are, these are myfavorite Chocolate covered
espresso beans, because in thenote I was writing to espresso
my thanks for being on mypodcast, right?
So I connect the dots, butwe've given up the experience.
So this is my thank you process.
(27:54):
What's the difference, john,between Six Flags and Disney?
They're both amusement parks.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Yeah, Disney, attention to detail.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Attention to detail and the experience that you're
going to have, the memories thatare being made.
People come back from Disney.
They're telling everybody thatis why you pay $200 or $300 a
day to be in Disney right In 68,whatever.
So that thank you process isone thing that we've done to
really differentiate ourselvesand it's probably one of the
(28:26):
best marketing things we've everdone, because I get text over
the weekend.
I get emails from people goinghey, thanks for this.
My kids and wife love this.
Now, in addition to food, wesend pens to our authors.
We send cutting boards.
Now, really, this does not haveany of my branding on it,
because it's not about me.
(28:46):
I'm trying to be a householdword in your life and so I've
found ways to do that.
We also do you mentionedelectronic newsletters every
month.
Those are phenomenal.
I'm a big fan of, in addition,print newsletter, whether it's
monthly, quarterly, because allright.
Here's my challenge to mostpeople Walk to your mailbox
(29:08):
today, open it up and count howmuch stuff is in it.
If you're like me, there's liketwo or three pieces of mail is.
This is a great time to dodirect mail the right way, and
when you coordinate direct mailwith online and the two connect.
I mean you do your emailnewsletter and you say, hey,
check your mailbox in a coupleof days, take our newsletter.
(29:31):
Somebody says, well, why do Iwant to do that?
Because they just got my email,cause they have friends Hand
that off to somebody you mightknow.
There's just so many ways to dosimple things like gifting.
Yeah, okay, thank you.
Nobody does that, nobody.
All right, there are companiesout there who will write these
(29:53):
for you.
Those are okay, but I've gottenthem.
You know what?
I know?
A computer wrote that theydon't write like I do.
I write sloppy, I'm sorry.
So I created a thank you thatwe mail.
Then, when they become a client, I created a welcome Welcome to
our paperback expert family.
(30:13):
We want to treat you likefamily, right?
And it's just another touchpoint that I don't know how many
people do that, but my clientstell me they don't get anybody
else doing it to them, right, soright.
And how much does this cost?
Not much, it's the strategy,right, it's.
(30:34):
How do you be different fromeverybody else to build that
credibility to say I like thisguy, I now own your heart, and
when I own your heart, I'm goingto get your business and that
of your friends, neighbors,relative, business associates,
church members and club members,it doesn't matter.
That's how you build a businesslongterm.
(30:55):
It's not rocket science and itdoesn't take tens of thousands
of dollars on Facebook or Googleads or anything like that.
It's approaching it a differentway and really positioning
yourself, not as a needy hunter.
I have to have the sale today.
No, I don't.
I'm happy to be here.
I'm going to need business,john, in three years as much as
(31:18):
I need it today.
I'm okay.
If this is not the right timefor you, I'm okay with that.
Let's just have a conversation.
People love that.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Yeah, it's changing that sort of narrative between
I'm here in hopes that you giveme money to I'm just here, I'm
just here, I'm here for whateveryou need Totally.
And because people don't liketo be sold too, they don't like
to feel like you're just moneyhunting and all of that.
And so one last thing that Iwanted to talk about before we
(31:51):
wrap up here.
So we've talked about just kindof small things you can do, the
touch points that you can maketo make sure that everyone's
being nurtured and that you'renot just bringing in a bunch of
people and then ignoring them.
But now let's talk about someof the bigger pillar pieces that
you can do to leverage yourexpertise to really stand out.
(32:12):
On our side, obviously, wehandle the digital side of
things.
So right now, podcasting ishuge.
Podcasting as a medium, as aconsumable sort of item, is
really blowing up right now, andthe nice thing about it, as
(32:34):
compared to maybe, a blog or avideo, is that people can
consume podcasts while they'redoing other things, while
they're driving to work, whilethey are working out at the gym,
doing yard work, whatever thecase is.
And it's also a little bit morelong, for I know especially
lawyers.
(32:54):
You wanna dive deep intoeverything and cover every
single, if then possiblescenario that you can.
You can't do that on a blog.
No one's gonna read that entireblog.
A video people might listen tothe audio, which, if you're
doing that on Video Finders, ripthe Audio.
There's your podcast episode.
But podcasts you can dive deep,you can expound on a topic for
(33:15):
20, 30, 40 minutes at a time andpeople will consume that.
And so it's also kind of like abook, where people see a podcast
as, oh, that's a big deal.
Right, they still see it asakin to having your own talk
radio show.
Back.
Talk radio is still a thing,obviously, with satellite radio,
(33:37):
streaming, spotify, all thatnot as prominent as it was, but
it's still that same sort ofthing.
And so you tell people you havea podcast.
You're showing up on Applepodcasts, you're showing up
right there next to the JoeRogans of the world and all of
that.
That looks like a big deal.
It is, and people are gonnastop and listen and so.
(33:58):
But then also, like you said,you have the book.
So I mean like, why is a bookimportant if you wanna just wrap
up on that?
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Yeah, well, a book establishes you in the mind as
an expert and again, in ourculture, experts have books.
Right, you're an expert at whatyou do, but the problem is you
look just like everybody else.
You're a coffee bean.
As I say, you pour out coffeebeans.
They all look the same andsmell the same.
If you look like and sound likeall your competitors, you're
giving me no reason to chooseyou.
But when you have a book, sohere's a financial advisor.
(34:30):
We did a book, for herbackground was gambling.
I mean her parents back downwhen she grew up.
They'd fly to Vegas and winlots of money and then
everything was great.
Fly to Vegas A month later.
They'd lose a bunch of money.
Well, she's a financial advisornow.
So we created her brand arounddon't gamble with your
retirement yeah, that's in herbook.
So she talks about that.
(34:50):
Well, her podcast that wehelped her create has the same
name and so now she can talkabout on her podcast all of her
strategies.
And for a business owner,understand, it's not only the
fact that you have a podcast,which is a platform, a
credibility platform, it's thefact that they can get to know
(35:11):
you because they can hear you.
You can't really hear me.
Through a book you can get toknow me, but now I got your
podcast.
Ooh, now I know what's thevideo of that, right?
And a podcast here's for us howwe teach our clients that it's
less about how many downloadsyou're getting and it's more
(35:32):
about the relationships you'rebuilding with your listeners,
but also with other people.
So if you're an attorney andyou have your podcast, you
should be interviewing otherpeople that your audience would
want to hear from, and thoseother people are going to become
referral sources for you aswell.
So you use your podcast.
(35:54):
We call it a profitable podcastbecause it should be, but it's a
credibility platform.
So when somebody comes to yourwebsite now, they see that you
have your own book and your ownpodcast and your own video show
which is your podcast, reallyright?
And then they're like God, thisperson is really all over the
place and what happens is, asyou communicate, you're building
(36:16):
the relationship, you're givingthem the information.
And oh, by the way, if you ever, john, need to have a
conversation with me, just getto like a 15 minute column,
happy to answer any question youhave about your unique
situation, to see if we could beof help, and if I can't help
you, I have an entire network ofpeople I'd be happy to connect
(36:36):
you with.
Okay, that's how we approachbusiness.
You start putting that messageout and I assure you you're
gonna start gravitating lots ofpeople towards you because it's
a different message that's trulyat the heart of most people
living so.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Thanks for listening.
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