November 1, 2023 • 31 mins
This week we sit down with Julie Perez from Leap Legal, who guides us through the unique productivity hurdles that different types of lawyers encounter, the role of continuing education, and the cruciality of compliance in legal practice.
We then dive into the complex, yet critical aspects of trust account money, compliance, record keeping, and assembling a dream team. We discuss the lack of business management taught in law school and why having robust software in place to catch mistakes is crucial. We're also putting a spotlight on the layers of encryption and compliance with IT, offering a well-rounded view of law firm management.
Lastly, we're turning the lens onto one of the most important facets of any business - the client experience. We cover the essentials of clear communication, setting expectations, and avoiding those jarring invoice surprises.
To learn more, visit leap.us
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
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Speaker 2 (00:53):
This is Center Stage putting your firm in the
spotlight by highlightingbusiness owners and other
industry experts to help takeyour firm to the next level.
Hey everyone, and welcome toCenter Stage.
I'm your host, john Henson, andthis week we are talking once
again about productivity andefficiency and just things that
you can do to get the most outof the limited time that you
(01:15):
have.
I know that time management isalways a big issue for a lot of
you firm owners out there, andso my guest this week is Julie
Perez from Leap Legal, and wemet them at the Florida Bar
Conference earlier this year andthey do a ton of really great
work for law firms, especiallyin the productivity space.
(01:39):
A lot of their offerings andeverything are designed to help
you be more productive and soclearly something that they are
passionate about, and we'regoing to talk about some things
that you can do today to helpyour firm out and to really
emphasize and focus on thatproductivity.
So, julie, thanks for joiningus.
Yeah, thanks for having me,john, so real quick, before we
(02:00):
jump in, tell us a little bitabout yourself and what you do
over there at Leap.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Sure, so I'm Julie Perez, I'm one of the lawyers
here at Leap and my role here atLeap is on the sales side, so I
do a senior businessdevelopment management and
basically what that is ismeeting people at conventions
lawyers, administrators,paralegals even, and even
sometimes IT consultants who areworking with a lot of these law
firms all across the countryand one of the things we realize
(02:26):
is lawyers are focused on theirclients and what they have to
be focused on their fiduciaryduties.
But what Leap does is come inand say, well, wait a minute,
what are you doing now?
Can we do it better?
Can we save you money on IT?
And how do we make you workevery day a little bit easier,
simplified and more efficiently?
So the way we do that isthrough the legal software that
(02:48):
we provide.
So it's kind of like anall-in-one solution, and I think
that's what makes people alittle more focused and
organized on the way thatthey're working their cases.
Because, john, I've heard itall People are still using
servers.
You would flip out to know howmany people still use servers at
their office.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Yeah, no, I mean I'm sure that there's still a ton
out there who are still on paperfiles and have tons of cabinets
with all kinds of folders thatthey have to keep for seven, 10
years or however long it is, sohopefully the majority of you
out there listening are not inthat space, but there's still a
lot of advancements andefficiencies that you can do,
and so I know kind of.
(03:26):
The starting point, though, isyou have to decide to be
efficient.
Like a lot of times for peoplewho may not be naturally wired
to look for ways to do thingsmore efficiently, you have to do
make that conscious decision todo that.
So, even if someone is notpurposely trying to be
(03:47):
complicated in their life, whatdoes it still mean to have to
decide to be efficient?
Speaker 3 (03:55):
Yeah, that's a good one.
I think that's like the biggesthurdle right, like it's not,
like how is the technology, whatam I using?
Versus it's the whole like canyou decide to change the things
you've been doing for 20 yearsif you're going to be more
efficient?
And sometimes I feel like it'sjust we're so hardwired in the
way that we do things and reallylike these people that I speak
(04:16):
to, a lot of them have beendoing this for 20, 30 years.
They know more than me, likethey're successful on their own.
I always have to tell them guys, I know you're successful,
totally not knocking the factthat you've had this amazing
practice for so many years, soyou don't need Julie or Leap or
anybody to come and tell you letme show you how to be a great
lawyer.
But there are things that youcan work on and the decision to
(04:38):
be efficient is the biggestfirst step, because you're
deciding that you want to change.
You need to change because thefuture of your business is on
the line, right, because if youhave 10 firms in a 10 mile
vicinity, you're going to havenine other ones who have
probably already adoptedtechnology, are probably doing
things more efficiently and nowthey're giving.
(04:58):
They have a competitiveadvantage that they're kind of
looking a little better than youare.
And how do you compete and howdo you stay relevant, no matter
how many years you've been doingit?
Because realistically that isan advantage.
You do have more years underyour belt, right?
So all already you're kind ofahead of everyone else.
So when you decide to beefficient, I feel like you.
(05:20):
Just it's like a light switch.
It's like it revolutionizes theway that they work and the way
that they practice.
So decision to be efficient, ohmy gosh, it's the biggest first
step you can take.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Yeah, and I think one of the things that I see a lot
of times is a lot of lawyers.
They're really great executors,they're down in the weeds and
they see things that are rightin front of them really well,
and I think a lot of times wherethey get tripped up is they see
, okay, well, there's all thisnew tech.
That means I've got to learnthis new software and these new
processes, and learning how todo this one thing is going to
(05:56):
take me two hours, whereas theway that I already know how to
do it takes me 45 minutes.
So the thing that I'm doing isalready more efficient.
But they're not thinking aboutweeks and months down the road
when they've mastered this newtechnology and now they're doing
that thing in 20 minutes or 15minutes, when it could have
taken 45 to begin with.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Exactly, and that is one of the key.
These things too right, becausethey're like okay, but the way
that I do it works for me andthis is how we've done it and my
staff knows how to deal with itand it's like okay, but I'm
sure it's great, but there mightbe something better, right?
And let's just think about this.
And I always tell them whenthey meet with me, like this is
not a sales call, this is aconsultation, because the
(06:37):
reality is, I don't know what'sgood for you and my intention is
to find what's best for you andif it's us, fantastic.
If it's not, no worries.
We still need to talk aboutwhat you're doing, right,
because that's what we're herefor.
So, talking about what you'redoing and what you said is so
true, like they think of thecerebral, the legal, the
arguments, the strategy on thecase, how we're gonna get the
(06:59):
best outcome for our clientthat's what a lawyer should
think of.
What a lawyer should not bethinking of is administrative
work.
How do I enter my time?
How do I build this invoice?
Those are things that yourstaff, they have all these
Fantastic competencies.
They know what they're doing.
You have your office managerwho knows how to be an
administrator, knows how to dothe finances, knows how to do
(07:20):
everything so that your braincan be best used for what you're
good at and what you studiedfor.
So how do we sort of separatethat?
Well, it's thinking of like thefront of the house versus the
back of the house, of the Of thelaw firm.
So what you were saying was I dothis and it takes me 45 minutes
.
But what that that person's notrealizing is that for the
office manager it takes themthree hours to sort of sift
(07:42):
through what you did in 45minutes.
So maybe it's good for you, butI think the overall like when
you take a step back, it's likewait a minute.
That took her three hours, soit only took me 45, but she
could have been doing somethingelse in these extra two hours.
What if it could have taken me20 and her one?
We just saved how much timeright, overall, on the overall
(08:04):
like sense of the, the staff youknow as a whole and it's it's
what you're saying when you canadopt technology that can help
you on the front end and helpyour staff on the back end than
everyone's efficient, but thenyou know what you also produce
more, because that's the wholething, like, no matter what
technology you get, there's only60 minutes in an hour.
Nobody can like sort of changethat.
(08:25):
But what we can do is say, well, wait the same 60 minutes.
What if we could do threethings in 60 minutes?
And that's the whole likeefficiency, productivity
conversation, and it's what yousaid when we, when we first
decide to change and then wefirst say, well, wait a minute,
how can we implement technologythat can help with this?
What are we struggling with?
(08:46):
Right, like, what are ourchallenges?
Even and people don't think ofthat Because they're just
getting the work done and theyhave great results.
But when you stop and thinkabout the business, I think that
that's one of the things thatyou and I were talking about the
first time we met like it's abusiness, it's a law firm, but
it's a business, and I thinkthat gets lost sometimes.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Yeah, and you know, like a lot of times they just
don't have that training or thateducation to Run the business
side of things right.
I mean, like I mean you went tolaw school so you would know
this better than I would, butlike law school is just all
about teaching you the law.
I don't know that there are anyactual business management
classes in the law schoolcurriculum.
(09:26):
Certainly not for bookkeeping,certainly not for marketing.
So how do you then, as a lawfirm owner, then dedicate that
time that's required to run thebusiness of your law firm,
rather than just the case workthat you're paid to do?
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Right?
And the answer is they're sobusy now because now they're an
active law firm, now They'vebeen around for a while now.
How in the world do you findthe time?
Because now I guess, to thinkof or she has to think of CLE's.
I got to continue my education,I got to start learning a new
niche, right?
What if I now want to doemployment law?
Because, you know, ever sincethe pandemic, employment law
cases had become a thing nowwhen before they were kind of
(10:04):
like less popular.
So people that were doingdifferent areas of law are now
sort of like exploringEmployment law and trying to
expand their business.
When do you sit out and say whatare we doing?
Is it good, is it bad?
How much does it cost?
And and it's got to be adecision that's made, hopefully
before you get really crazy busy, but typically it happens after
15 years of using three or fourseparate systems and and it's
(10:27):
what you were saying they founda problem.
Oh, I need something better torecord my time.
And they got the software, butthen they sort of disregarded.
Well, how about documentassembly?
How about something that sortof helps us create packages
faster, because copying andpasting, I mean, come on.
I did that.
How many, I don't know.
I don't want to say how manyyears ago I did it, but let's
(10:47):
just say more than 10.
I did copying and pasting, youknow, and it's like sitting down
with someone that does it everyday, can at least give you like
a guy, like, well, wait, howabout this particular to your
practice?
Right, because if you're talkingto litigators, people that bill
hourly their mind and theirwork needs to be.
They have to think about itdifferently.
They have to say, well, how doI bill everything I'm doing
(11:10):
Versus your think of, like yourprobate lawyers, your real
estate lawyers?
They're thinking of flat fees,which is now Efficiency more
than time capture.
Right, because those packageswe create what if we could do
three or four in an hour insteadof one?
That's how you sort of get paidfaster and more, um.
And then the third person wouldbe like the contingency lawyer,
(11:31):
like you think, your personalinjury lawyers and things like
that.
They're not going to get paiduntil the case ends, and so
that's efficiency.
Situation too, right, like, howdo we get to the end?
Um, all of them have to stopand think of the ways that we're
working.
And you know what if you can doit and take a good opportunity
to do it and say you know what,last quarter of the year or
(11:52):
whenever it makes sense for you,let's have that real
conversation.
If you do it right and if youvet out what you need, you
shouldn't have to do it again,which is the great part.
Right, we don't want you tohave to change like what you're
doing over and over, but if youcan do it thoroughly the first
time, you should be good withwhatever solution you choose.
And that's what we try to tellpeople like take your time.
(12:14):
This is not something you doquickly.
This is something that,realistically, everyone in the
firm should be a part of theconversation.
I think that that really getsyou a little bit more of that
depth.
And what was one of the thingsyou mentioned about the
coursework and the business?
Can you say that again so wecan go to that, because I feel
like there's so much to talkabout there.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Yeah, when you're running a business you have just
the casework that you're beingpaid to do, but as the owner you
still have to make sure thatthere's marketing going on.
You still have to make sure thatsomeone's running the books
Usually it's you, or maybe yououtsourced it to a bookkeeper.
You got to make sure that yourphone's being answered and being
(12:57):
answered the right way you go.
If you have staff, you've gotall these HR things to keep in
mind and to that point at leastfrom where I sit, this is one of
the things that I actuallydon't think about that often.
But to me I focus on because Iguess it's because these are the
rules that I do here atSpotlight Printing.
But I focus on if marketing isgoing well, if all of the books
(13:21):
are up to date and looking goodand we've got good cash flow,
our operations are doing well.
To me that's the sign of awell-run firm and a well-run
business.
But I know one of the thingsthat you guys focus on a lot is
the compliance side of things,and one of the things that you
say is compliance is just anatural consequence of running a
(13:44):
firm.
Well, so really expand on thatand talk about what you mean by
that.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
Yeah, absolutely so.
Compliance for a lawyer, that'sour biggest buzzword, because
you think about your ethicalconsiderations and so we think
about as a lawyer, we havefiduciary duties to our clients
and we all know these are dutiesof loyalty and care and always
working on the best interests ofthe client.
But for lawyers there's twomore levels.
You have your ethical rules andprofessional rules of
(14:12):
responsibility within the ABAstandards nationally, but then
you have the jurisdictional onesfor the state in which you
practice.
So now you have another layerof compliance rules, ethics that
you have to follow.
So I think when we talk aboutcompliance being a natural
consequence of running your firm, well, I think it's talking
about kind of what you saidright, like how the firm has run
(14:35):
.
How does the lawyer conducthimself or herself?
How do we care for trust money?
Because the thing with trustaccount money it's not ours,
it's not ours to use, it's notours to touch, even right.
So how do we have something inplace where we can separate,
sort of silo the funds and makesure there's never commingling,
(14:55):
even by accident, because a lotof times it's just an accident
you put something in the wrongplace, you deposited the wrong
check.
How do we have those checks andbalances and the answer is
having a good software in placethat can catch a mistake, can
give you a red flag, can saywait a minute, are you sure you
want to transfer this?
Like, where's the invoice?
Right?
Because now everything has tohave sort of like this two-way
(15:17):
situation Somebody gives you adeposit for trust.
A lot of states require thatyou do deposit that retainer in
trust first, but then you don'ttouch it until work was
performed.
And then you have an invoiceand even though the invoice may
not go out to anyone to get paid, you got to have to show it.
You have to show the invoiceand that the trust account paid
for that balance.
What if there's a balance doingowing right?
(15:38):
How do we reflect that?
How does the client know what'sgoing on?
How much was applied?
How much do I owe?
Do I need to replenish?
All those things areconsiderations that really
affect compliance and, more thananything, people getting in
trouble with their disciplinaryauthorities, people getting
disbarred, even.
I mean a lot of the problemscome from that compliance and
that trust accounting and evenwhat you said before record
(16:00):
keeping.
How do we keep records?
Are we going to keep a filingcabinet.
Are we going to pay for storage?
What if we have a limitedstorage?
That's digital right, so thatthese are all things that you
can knock out your compliancerequirements a lot of the times
in the digital space, justensuring that you have the
encryption, ensuring that you dohave sort of that accounting
compliance part as well.
(16:22):
And one more thing to add withwhat you said, because it's so
fascinating I talk about it allthe time and the fact that you
said it.
I was like, oh my God, we'relike on the same vibe With law
school, at least for me, therewas no class about law practice
management, business managementfor a firm.
It was all legal theory, right,and the only business class we
(16:42):
took was like corporations andentities.
But that's still business law,that's like structuring of
entities and that's not the same.
So you have this group ofbrilliant minds at law school
and we all come from differentwalks of life and some of them
are English majors, some of themare political science, history
majors, some of them wereteachers before they went to law
school, but I'll tell you whatvery, very few that I remember
(17:06):
in my class.
I mean we had like 350 peoplein my class, not really a
humongous class, but I mean, Ithink five of us that I knew
were business majors, includingmyself, and that's not common
for people that go to law school, and I think that's the crux of
the issue that you werementioning, which is interesting
, right.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Right, and so you know you're thinking about, you
know how all of that isstructured and I'm just like
making comparisons to just howwe run things internally here at
Spotlight Branding.
You know, and we have, we have,like, the checks and balances,
like you said, but it's for ourmarketing, it's for our
operations, it's for, you know,the finances as it relates to
(17:48):
the books, right, but forsomeone who is running a law
firm, it makes it that much morecomplicated Because, like you
said, it goes a couple of layersdeep with the compliance and
the ethics side of things,because that you know, that,
almost you know kind of moves inbetween departments for lack of
a better term, because it doesaffect finance but it also
(18:10):
affects the operations side ofthings with how, like you said,
money and invoices is applied toa case and all that.
How does.
Like how do you even begin toincorporate that into just a
business's structure in terms ofmaking sure that that's top of
mind?
Like, do you have just adedicated compliance meeting?
(18:33):
Is just that sort of thing justneed to be a focal point to
each department?
Like, what do you recommend orwhat have you seen in that
regard?
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Yeah, no, that's excellent.
Depending on where you're atright, you have, like, there's
different things in place.
Like I know the United Kingdom.
They have like an entireregulatory sort of authority
that has compliance officers forlegal compliance officers for
finance, right, and I've alsomet with a lot of firms that
will literally get a CFO andjust hey, handle all of our
financial, because I'm a lawyer,I don't know what I'm doing,
(19:04):
right, like the joke is alwayslike I'm bad at math.
That's why I went to law school.
You know that's always likeeveryone's job and it's I'm not
going to lie, it's probably true, because I for one, I can say I
stink at math and really wedon't have to think about it
that deeply If we can just kindof build a team that's got those
strengths and can bring in sortof what we need.
So a lot of firms I speak tohave CFOs.
(19:26):
A lot of firms have CIOs.
Right, I want to have somebodyfor the IT side, somebody that
knows all of this stuff, thatcan implement what we're doing.
Sometimes they call them, Ithink, ctos as well.
I think I just made my ownacronym, but that's all right.
The whole thing is an IT guy.
That's better than I am.
Yeah, and sort of that.
The safety encryption side.
So now you have the person whois the professional on the IT
(19:49):
side can talk about what kind ofencryption do we have?
Are we sock compliant?
Right, sometimes, depending ontheir practice, if firms are
debt collectors, consumerprotection firms, things like
that they require higher levelsof protection on the back end,
like think about whateverservice you use.
Are you on AWS cloud, theAmazon service?
(20:09):
Are you on Microsoft?
What are you using and what aretheir compliance features look
like?
Are they certified?
Do you need that certification?
There's so many people who arein that space right now that can
really help you if you justreach out.
And that tie it back to whatsolutions are you looking at.
Is there anything we can do toconsolidate those solutions so
that they all work together?
(20:31):
Because the last thing you wantis to be in love with a software
program and all of a suddenit's not compliant and you
missed it.
You know, and now you're like,oh God, we missed it somehow
because we love the features,the sizzle, you know, the all
the cool what's it called thebuttons that you have and oh my
God, it does this, it does thatand we forgot to ask about the
(20:52):
nerdy financial or I'd see stuffin the back end and I think
that making sure that you havesome sort of checklist or some
sort of running comparison,right Like I know that the
people at Leap we created aneGuide, and what I love about
the eGuide is it's very agnostic.
It doesn't say, like, get thisbecause Leap has it, even though
, okay, yes, we do have it, butwe didn't say that we're giving
(21:15):
you the list of what you shouldbe looking for because we want
you to compare and we want youto find the thing that's best
for you.
You know so that eGuide goesover everything, like talks
about your time management, yourtime capture.
If you're not a time capturefirm, skip it.
Go on to the next one.
Like what are you doing forrecords management?
How much storage?
Are you paying for storage?
(21:35):
Are you paying for backups?
These are all things that everysingle firm, irrespective of
which one you end up choosing,you need to think about this
stuff, and one of the pagestalks about accounting on
operating side, on trustaccounting side and all of the
other things you need, so havingsomething that you can go to,
where these people have beendoing it for a while.
You know like they've beenhelping firms for 30 something
(21:56):
years and we kind of know sortof how to guide you.
I think that that's reallyimportant.
So the people that you employand the specifics and the sort
of specialties that they have.
But also how are you looking atthings and do you have some
sort of guide that you make sureyou don't miss any boxes that
you have to check off?
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Yeah, and this is great because it's this really
ties into like a lot of episodesthat we've done recently about
you know, finding like your zoneof genius, for example, like
only focus on things that youlike and are good at and, you
know, outsource the rest, getfractional help, right, you know
.
You know, lean in on yourstrengths and surround yourself
(22:35):
with teams and people who cantake care of the things that
you're you're weak at or thatyou don't like doing or you're
not good at doing, and so just areally good, good reminder
there.
Just you know, and again, allthis help is out there, you know
, you just got to make, you know, talk about deciding to be
efficient.
You got to decide to get thathelp as well.
So one of the last things Iwant to ask you about, you know
(22:58):
we talked so much about,especially on, you know, with
spotlight branding and makingpeople look like the expert.
You know, and I think, a lot oflawyers, you know they want to
be considered the legal expert,but you guys talk about also
being an expert at the clientexperience.
So, as we wrap up here, youknow, tell us, you know, what
you guys mean by that and whatdoes it look like to be a client
experience expert.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Yeah, client experience, right, that's like
100%.
Every business wants to havethe chance to say, hey, we've
been doing this for a while.
We only specialize in familylaw cases.
We only do workers calm cases,because that's going to make the
client feel like, wow, I havethis issue and this person.
That's all they see every day.
And part of that is saying well, how do we show you that we're
(23:43):
successful?
Because I can show you myresume, I can show you my CV.
You can take a look at ourwebsite and you'll already know
we're kind of experts in whatwe're doing, right.
But, like, how do we show that?
Like, show that to clients andexpress that to clients.
And one of the biggest ways ishaving a retainer agreement that
sort of manages and listseverything out in specific.
Right, what is your engagement?
(24:04):
How are you helping this client?
Like, make sure they understandthe nature of the relationship,
what you're going to do, whatyou're not going to do, what can
we talk about?
If it comes up right, like, alot of lawyers will take on a
flat V case and then, if thisgoes to trial, we need to sort
of have another talk about this,because that changes the game,
right, it's going to change whatI need from you and it's going
(24:25):
to change what you need from me,and I think, being clear on the
front end, people appreciatehonesty, they appreciate
transparency.
All of us do as people and asconsumers, and I think just
having sort of like everythingin order when it comes to
retainer agreements, engagementagreements, fees and costs right
, like not just what you'redoing.
What are you going to cover forme?
Are you going to charge meevery single time you file
(24:48):
something at court, or am Igoing to see that at the end of
the month?
These are all things that theyseem super common sense, but
clients need to know whatthey're getting into, because
the last thing you want is tosend something where you thought
you talked to them about it,but maybe it wasn't clear, and
now they received an invoice.
And now you're asking them for$1,200 filing fees and service
of process which, by the way,are all legitimate costs that
(25:11):
the firm you know advanced, butthey didn't know they had to
cover it.
Now.
They thought it was going to becovered later.
And now do you look like anexpert or do you look as
organized as you would havewanted to look?
And that's?
That's the whole thing right.
We want to make sure we crossour T's and daughter eyes every
step of the way and it seemslike it's definitely cover that
out right.
(25:31):
And how about?
How about?
Like payments?
Right, like showing that you'rean expert means what you talked
about earlier.
We've already thought about thisstuff.
We've already seen that we needhelp with the way that we
receive payments to and we wantto make it easier to do.
But that's fine, because we'reexperts and we understand that
we have to give you the mostsimple experience.
We got your back, we'rehandling it right.
(25:52):
So for a firm on the revenueside, you want to make sure you
receive your payments quicker,but for that you got to make
sure your billing is donequicker.
And if you're chasing, if you'rean office manager, chasing your
lawyers, guys, where's yourtime, where's your time from
July people, for July time inthe beginning of August that
(26:12):
thing should have been enteredalready.
So what happens?
And you think the client'sgonna be happy to get a
humongous bill for two monthsworth of time, like holy, you
know.
Like I don't have that money.
Like why is it so big?
Why didn't I get it last month?
So all of that's clientexperience.
Like how do you feel customerservice?
How about when you call I thinkyou mentioned that earlier like
if I'm calling and I have topress 17 buttons, you know Like
(26:36):
I will.
I won't name my insurancecompany, but let me tell you it
is a nightmare every time I calland it's like pressing a bunch
of buttons.
God forbid, my dog sneezes inthe background.
There goes the, there goes theautomation, right?
They thought they heardsomething else.
You don't need people to befrustrated just to ask you a
question.
So do you have a client portal,right?
(26:57):
That helps the clientexperience, because now they
feel like they can talk to you,they can upload things and you
kind of give them the feeling of24 7 service without having to
work 24 hours, right?
So there's a lot of things.
It's it's the payments, theretainer is being clear on
expectations and managing theExpectations and them making.
Also making them feel likeyou're always there for them in
(27:20):
some way.
You know.
Yeah all of those things I thinklead to like a healthier and
happier client experienceoverall.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Yeah, and the last point you made is so important
because I mean just me as aconsumer.
Any time I've had to work witha law firm, my biggest complaint
has always just been a lack ofcommunication.
No-transcript, you know, likethe, and I understand, cause I
almost kind of think the sameway right, like you could be
working on a case and there justmay not be any updates.
(27:49):
Right, there's nothing toupdate.
So what's the point of mecommunicating that?
Well, the people on the otherend don't understand that you
know, the guy who's worriedabout his case, right, yeah,
exactly.
I mean, like I've told thisstory before, right, like I had
a traffic ticket and the courtday kept getting pushed back,
you know, a couple of times, andthen it got to a point where
(28:12):
the last date I had heard cameand went and I didn't hear
anything from anybody.
And I'm sitting here wondering,like, logically, I could assume
that everything got taken careof, but at the same time there's
this voice in the back of myhead.
It's like is there a warrantout for my arrest right now?
Because if I fail to appear,and you know, and I had to reach
(28:33):
out on multiple occasions justto get that update, and so you
know, have a system in place tocommunicate.
Even if the update is, there isnothing to update right now.
It's just that peace of mindthat keeps people, you know,
going back and forth there.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
Oh, totally.
Even.
Like when you don't have ananswer, right?
Like, let's say, you asked aquestion, they don't have an
answer.
Just hearing from a paralegalthat says guys, I asked
so-and-so, we have emailed them,we've called them twice, I'm
waiting on their response, Ipromise I'm on top of it, even
that makes you feel good.
It's not even an answer, but atleast they're working on it.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Yeah, so this has been really great.
A ton of great information here, as always.
How can people learn more aboutLeap and where should they go?
Speaker 3 (29:14):
Sure, if you want to learn more about Leap, you can
go to leapus for our generalwebsite.
They can also email me if theyhave any questions.
My name is Julie Perez.
That's julieperezleapus.
You have any questions, maybeabout what we spoke about, or if
you do want us to send you ane-guide or anything like that,
I'm happy to answer anyquestions because, honestly,
(29:36):
I've been helping law firm sinceI graduated.
I feel like it's like mycalling in life and I just love
hearing about the way people areworking and really we're better
together.
Right, I feel like we have tosort of help each other.
Like you said, get the bestpeople that do the best
expertise and let's match themup, and it's been super fun to
do this First time, by the way.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Yeah, no, I mean, you're a pro.
You did great.
You know, never would haveknown that it was the first time
.
So one final question for youbefore we do wrap up.
If you had one final piece ofadvice for our listeners, what
would it be?
Speaker 3 (30:07):
I would say, besides deciding to be efficient and
engaging technology, part ofthat is getting out of your
comfort zone and for me inparticular, it's been networking
on things like LinkedIn.
I think it's so importantbecause part of what we said
finding those experts, findingthe people that have already
sort of mastered a little tinypiece of what you need.
(30:27):
It is so important to reach outto these people and just follow
them, see what they're posting,see who they're connected with
and what are their networkslooking like.
You never know what you'll find.
It's been so amazing for me ingrowing my own personal business
and then myself as just aperson, right Like I've learned
so much by just getting out ofmy comfort zone, deciding to be
(30:49):
efficient and saying you knowwhat networking is weird, but
I'm gonna try it.
I'm gonna try it and nobody hasto see my face because it's
just LinkedIn.
Things like LinkedIn.
I'm telling you it's huge.
If you can just take a step outand network, it's gonna change
things for the better.
That's one of the things Icould say.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Absolutely.
Yeah, I couldn't agree moreWell.
This has been fantastic.
Thank you all out there forcontinuing to listen.
If you have not done so yet,please leave a rating and review
wherever you are listening.
It does really help to show outand help us get out in front of
more people and help morelawyers like you.
And that's gonna do it, julie.
Thanks so much for joining usThanks, John.
Thanks for listening.
(31:26):
To learn more, go tospotlightbrandingcom slash
center stage.
Hey guys, thanks.
This podcast is brought to you by Spotlight
Branding.
Whether your firm only gets afew referrals or it's 100% of
your business, you have theopportunity to double your
referrals through educational,informative content.
The pros at Spotlight Brandingcan help you create that content
through blogging videos, emailnewsletters and more All
(00:22):
designed to help you increaseyour referrals and attract the
kinds of clients you want towork with.
Visit spotlightbrandingcomslash pod to learn more.
That's spotlightbrandingcomslash pod.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
This is Center Stage putting your firm in the
spotlight by highlightingbusiness owners and other
industry experts to help takeyour firm to the next level.
Hey everyone, and welcome toCenter Stage.
I'm your host, john Henson, andthis week we are talking once
again about productivity andefficiency and just things that
you can do to get the most outof the limited time that you
(01:15):
have.
I know that time management isalways a big issue for a lot of
you firm owners out there, andso my guest this week is Julie
Perez from Leap Legal, and wemet them at the Florida Bar
Conference earlier this year andthey do a ton of really great
work for law firms, especiallyin the productivity space.
(01:39):
A lot of their offerings andeverything are designed to help
you be more productive and soclearly something that they are
passionate about, and we'regoing to talk about some things
that you can do today to helpyour firm out and to really
emphasize and focus on thatproductivity.
So, julie, thanks for joiningus.
Yeah, thanks for having me,john, so real quick, before we
(02:00):
jump in, tell us a little bitabout yourself and what you do
over there at Leap.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Sure, so I'm Julie Perez, I'm one of the lawyers
here at Leap and my role here atLeap is on the sales side, so I
do a senior businessdevelopment management and
basically what that is ismeeting people at conventions
lawyers, administrators,paralegals even, and even
sometimes IT consultants who areworking with a lot of these law
firms all across the countryand one of the things we realize
(02:26):
is lawyers are focused on theirclients and what they have to
be focused on their fiduciaryduties.
But what Leap does is come inand say, well, wait a minute,
what are you doing now?
Can we do it better?
Can we save you money on IT?
And how do we make you workevery day a little bit easier,
simplified and more efficiently?
So the way we do that isthrough the legal software that
(02:48):
we provide.
So it's kind of like anall-in-one solution, and I think
that's what makes people alittle more focused and
organized on the way thatthey're working their cases.
Because, john, I've heard itall People are still using
servers.
You would flip out to know howmany people still use servers at
their office.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Yeah, no, I mean I'm sure that there's still a ton
out there who are still on paperfiles and have tons of cabinets
with all kinds of folders thatthey have to keep for seven, 10
years or however long it is, sohopefully the majority of you
out there listening are not inthat space, but there's still a
lot of advancements andefficiencies that you can do,
and so I know kind of.
(03:26):
The starting point, though, isyou have to decide to be
efficient.
Like a lot of times for peoplewho may not be naturally wired
to look for ways to do thingsmore efficiently, you have to do
make that conscious decision todo that.
So, even if someone is notpurposely trying to be
(03:47):
complicated in their life, whatdoes it still mean to have to
decide to be efficient?
Speaker 3 (03:55):
Yeah, that's a good one.
I think that's like the biggesthurdle right, like it's not,
like how is the technology, whatam I using?
Versus it's the whole like canyou decide to change the things
you've been doing for 20 yearsif you're going to be more
efficient?
And sometimes I feel like it'sjust we're so hardwired in the
way that we do things and reallylike these people that I speak
(04:16):
to, a lot of them have beendoing this for 20, 30 years.
They know more than me, likethey're successful on their own.
I always have to tell them guys, I know you're successful,
totally not knocking the factthat you've had this amazing
practice for so many years, soyou don't need Julie or Leap or
anybody to come and tell you letme show you how to be a great
lawyer.
But there are things that youcan work on and the decision to
(04:38):
be efficient is the biggestfirst step, because you're
deciding that you want to change.
You need to change because thefuture of your business is on
the line, right, because if youhave 10 firms in a 10 mile
vicinity, you're going to havenine other ones who have
probably already adoptedtechnology, are probably doing
things more efficiently and nowthey're giving.
(04:58):
They have a competitiveadvantage that they're kind of
looking a little better than youare.
And how do you compete and howdo you stay relevant, no matter
how many years you've been doingit?
Because realistically that isan advantage.
You do have more years underyour belt, right?
So all already you're kind ofahead of everyone else.
So when you decide to beefficient, I feel like you.
(05:20):
Just it's like a light switch.
It's like it revolutionizes theway that they work and the way
that they practice.
So decision to be efficient, ohmy gosh, it's the biggest first
step you can take.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Yeah, and I think one of the things that I see a lot
of times is a lot of lawyers.
They're really great executors,they're down in the weeds and
they see things that are rightin front of them really well,
and I think a lot of times wherethey get tripped up is they see
, okay, well, there's all thisnew tech.
That means I've got to learnthis new software and these new
processes, and learning how todo this one thing is going to
(05:56):
take me two hours, whereas theway that I already know how to
do it takes me 45 minutes.
So the thing that I'm doing isalready more efficient.
But they're not thinking aboutweeks and months down the road
when they've mastered this newtechnology and now they're doing
that thing in 20 minutes or 15minutes, when it could have
taken 45 to begin with.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Exactly, and that is one of the key.
These things too right, becausethey're like okay, but the way
that I do it works for me andthis is how we've done it and my
staff knows how to deal with itand it's like okay, but I'm
sure it's great, but there mightbe something better, right?
And let's just think about this.
And I always tell them whenthey meet with me, like this is
not a sales call, this is aconsultation, because the
(06:37):
reality is, I don't know what'sgood for you and my intention is
to find what's best for you andif it's us, fantastic.
If it's not, no worries.
We still need to talk aboutwhat you're doing, right,
because that's what we're herefor.
So, talking about what you'redoing and what you said is so
true, like they think of thecerebral, the legal, the
arguments, the strategy on thecase, how we're gonna get the
(06:59):
best outcome for our clientthat's what a lawyer should
think of.
What a lawyer should not bethinking of is administrative
work.
How do I enter my time?
How do I build this invoice?
Those are things that yourstaff, they have all these
Fantastic competencies.
They know what they're doing.
You have your office managerwho knows how to be an
administrator, knows how to dothe finances, knows how to do
(07:20):
everything so that your braincan be best used for what you're
good at and what you studiedfor.
So how do we sort of separatethat?
Well, it's thinking of like thefront of the house versus the
back of the house, of the Of thelaw firm.
So what you were saying was I dothis and it takes me 45 minutes
.
But what that that person's notrealizing is that for the
office manager it takes themthree hours to sort of sift
(07:42):
through what you did in 45minutes.
So maybe it's good for you, butI think the overall like when
you take a step back, it's likewait a minute.
That took her three hours, soit only took me 45, but she
could have been doing somethingelse in these extra two hours.
What if it could have taken me20 and her one?
We just saved how much timeright, overall, on the overall
(08:04):
like sense of the, the staff youknow as a whole and it's it's
what you're saying when you canadopt technology that can help
you on the front end and helpyour staff on the back end than
everyone's efficient, but thenyou know what you also produce
more, because that's the wholething, like, no matter what
technology you get, there's only60 minutes in an hour.
Nobody can like sort of changethat.
(08:25):
But what we can do is say, well, wait the same 60 minutes.
What if we could do threethings in 60 minutes?
And that's the whole likeefficiency, productivity
conversation, and it's what yousaid when we, when we first
decide to change and then wefirst say, well, wait a minute,
how can we implement technologythat can help with this?
What are we struggling with?
(08:46):
Right, like, what are ourchallenges?
Even and people don't think ofthat Because they're just
getting the work done and theyhave great results.
But when you stop and thinkabout the business, I think that
that's one of the things thatyou and I were talking about the
first time we met like it's abusiness, it's a law firm, but
it's a business, and I thinkthat gets lost sometimes.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Yeah, and you know, like a lot of times they just
don't have that training or thateducation to Run the business
side of things right.
I mean, like I mean you went tolaw school so you would know
this better than I would, butlike law school is just all
about teaching you the law.
I don't know that there are anyactual business management
classes in the law schoolcurriculum.
(09:26):
Certainly not for bookkeeping,certainly not for marketing.
So how do you then, as a lawfirm owner, then dedicate that
time that's required to run thebusiness of your law firm,
rather than just the case workthat you're paid to do?
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Right?
And the answer is they're sobusy now because now they're an
active law firm, now They'vebeen around for a while now.
How in the world do you findthe time?
Because now I guess, to thinkof or she has to think of CLE's.
I got to continue my education,I got to start learning a new
niche, right?
What if I now want to doemployment law?
Because, you know, ever sincethe pandemic, employment law
cases had become a thing nowwhen before they were kind of
(10:04):
like less popular.
So people that were doingdifferent areas of law are now
sort of like exploringEmployment law and trying to
expand their business.
When do you sit out and say whatare we doing?
Is it good, is it bad?
How much does it cost?
And and it's got to be adecision that's made, hopefully
before you get really crazy busy, but typically it happens after
15 years of using three or fourseparate systems and and it's
(10:27):
what you were saying they founda problem.
Oh, I need something better torecord my time.
And they got the software, butthen they sort of disregarded.
Well, how about documentassembly?
How about something that sortof helps us create packages
faster, because copying andpasting, I mean, come on.
I did that.
How many, I don't know.
I don't want to say how manyyears ago I did it, but let's
(10:47):
just say more than 10.
I did copying and pasting, youknow, and it's like sitting down
with someone that does it everyday, can at least give you like
a guy, like, well, wait, howabout this particular to your
practice?
Right, because if you're talkingto litigators, people that bill
hourly their mind and theirwork needs to be.
They have to think about itdifferently.
They have to say, well, how doI bill everything I'm doing
(11:10):
Versus your think of, like yourprobate lawyers, your real
estate lawyers?
They're thinking of flat fees,which is now Efficiency more
than time capture.
Right, because those packageswe create what if we could do
three or four in an hour insteadof one?
That's how you sort of get paidfaster and more, um.
And then the third person wouldbe like the contingency lawyer,
(11:31):
like you think, your personalinjury lawyers and things like
that.
They're not going to get paiduntil the case ends, and so
that's efficiency.
Situation too, right, like, howdo we get to the end?
Um, all of them have to stopand think of the ways that we're
working.
And you know what if you can doit and take a good opportunity
to do it and say you know what,last quarter of the year or
(11:52):
whenever it makes sense for you,let's have that real
conversation.
If you do it right and if youvet out what you need, you
shouldn't have to do it again,which is the great part.
Right, we don't want you tohave to change like what you're
doing over and over, but if youcan do it thoroughly the first
time, you should be good withwhatever solution you choose.
And that's what we try to tellpeople like take your time.
(12:14):
This is not something you doquickly.
This is something that,realistically, everyone in the
firm should be a part of theconversation.
I think that that really getsyou a little bit more of that
depth.
And what was one of the thingsyou mentioned about the
coursework and the business?
Can you say that again so wecan go to that, because I feel
like there's so much to talkabout there.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Yeah, when you're running a business you have just
the casework that you're beingpaid to do, but as the owner you
still have to make sure thatthere's marketing going on.
You still have to make sure thatsomeone's running the books
Usually it's you, or maybe yououtsourced it to a bookkeeper.
You got to make sure that yourphone's being answered and being
(12:57):
answered the right way you go.
If you have staff, you've gotall these HR things to keep in
mind and to that point at leastfrom where I sit, this is one of
the things that I actuallydon't think about that often.
But to me I focus on because Iguess it's because these are the
rules that I do here atSpotlight Printing.
But I focus on if marketing isgoing well, if all of the books
(13:21):
are up to date and looking goodand we've got good cash flow,
our operations are doing well.
To me that's the sign of awell-run firm and a well-run
business.
But I know one of the thingsthat you guys focus on a lot is
the compliance side of things,and one of the things that you
say is compliance is just anatural consequence of running a
(13:44):
firm.
Well, so really expand on thatand talk about what you mean by
that.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
Yeah, absolutely so.
Compliance for a lawyer, that'sour biggest buzzword, because
you think about your ethicalconsiderations and so we think
about as a lawyer, we havefiduciary duties to our clients
and we all know these are dutiesof loyalty and care and always
working on the best interests ofthe client.
But for lawyers there's twomore levels.
You have your ethical rules andprofessional rules of
(14:12):
responsibility within the ABAstandards nationally, but then
you have the jurisdictional onesfor the state in which you
practice.
So now you have another layerof compliance rules, ethics that
you have to follow.
So I think when we talk aboutcompliance being a natural
consequence of running your firm, well, I think it's talking
about kind of what you saidright, like how the firm has run
(14:35):
.
How does the lawyer conducthimself or herself?
How do we care for trust money?
Because the thing with trustaccount money it's not ours,
it's not ours to use, it's notours to touch, even right.
So how do we have something inplace where we can separate,
sort of silo the funds and makesure there's never commingling,
(14:55):
even by accident, because a lotof times it's just an accident
you put something in the wrongplace, you deposited the wrong
check.
How do we have those checks andbalances and the answer is
having a good software in placethat can catch a mistake, can
give you a red flag, can saywait a minute, are you sure you
want to transfer this?
Like, where's the invoice?
Right?
Because now everything has tohave sort of like this two-way
(15:17):
situation Somebody gives you adeposit for trust.
A lot of states require thatyou do deposit that retainer in
trust first, but then you don'ttouch it until work was
performed.
And then you have an invoiceand even though the invoice may
not go out to anyone to get paid, you got to have to show it.
You have to show the invoiceand that the trust account paid
for that balance.
What if there's a balance doingowing right?
(15:38):
How do we reflect that?
How does the client know what'sgoing on?
How much was applied?
How much do I owe?
Do I need to replenish?
All those things areconsiderations that really
affect compliance and, more thananything, people getting in
trouble with their disciplinaryauthorities, people getting
disbarred, even.
I mean a lot of the problemscome from that compliance and
that trust accounting and evenwhat you said before record
(16:00):
keeping.
How do we keep records?
Are we going to keep a filingcabinet.
Are we going to pay for storage?
What if we have a limitedstorage?
That's digital right, so thatthese are all things that you
can knock out your compliancerequirements a lot of the times
in the digital space, justensuring that you have the
encryption, ensuring that you dohave sort of that accounting
compliance part as well.
(16:22):
And one more thing to add withwhat you said, because it's so
fascinating I talk about it allthe time and the fact that you
said it.
I was like, oh my God, we'relike on the same vibe With law
school, at least for me, therewas no class about law practice
management, business managementfor a firm.
It was all legal theory, right,and the only business class we
(16:42):
took was like corporations andentities.
But that's still business law,that's like structuring of
entities and that's not the same.
So you have this group ofbrilliant minds at law school
and we all come from differentwalks of life and some of them
are English majors, some of themare political science, history
majors, some of them wereteachers before they went to law
school, but I'll tell you whatvery, very few that I remember
(17:06):
in my class.
I mean we had like 350 peoplein my class, not really a
humongous class, but I mean, Ithink five of us that I knew
were business majors, includingmyself, and that's not common
for people that go to law school, and I think that's the crux of
the issue that you werementioning, which is interesting
, right.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Right, and so you know you're thinking about, you
know how all of that isstructured and I'm just like
making comparisons to just howwe run things internally here at
Spotlight Branding.
You know, and we have, we have,like, the checks and balances,
like you said, but it's for ourmarketing, it's for our
operations, it's for, you know,the finances as it relates to
(17:48):
the books, right, but forsomeone who is running a law
firm, it makes it that much morecomplicated Because, like you
said, it goes a couple of layersdeep with the compliance and
the ethics side of things,because that you know, that,
almost you know kind of moves inbetween departments for lack of
a better term, because it doesaffect finance but it also
(18:10):
affects the operations side ofthings with how, like you said,
money and invoices is applied toa case and all that.
How does.
Like how do you even begin toincorporate that into just a
business's structure in terms ofmaking sure that that's top of
mind?
Like, do you have just adedicated compliance meeting?
(18:33):
Is just that sort of thing justneed to be a focal point to
each department?
Like, what do you recommend orwhat have you seen in that
regard?
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Yeah, no, that's excellent.
Depending on where you're atright, you have, like, there's
different things in place.
Like I know the United Kingdom.
They have like an entireregulatory sort of authority
that has compliance officers forlegal compliance officers for
finance, right, and I've alsomet with a lot of firms that
will literally get a CFO andjust hey, handle all of our
financial, because I'm a lawyer,I don't know what I'm doing,
(19:04):
right, like the joke is alwayslike I'm bad at math.
That's why I went to law school.
You know that's always likeeveryone's job and it's I'm not
going to lie, it's probably true, because I for one, I can say I
stink at math and really wedon't have to think about it
that deeply If we can just kindof build a team that's got those
strengths and can bring in sortof what we need.
So a lot of firms I speak tohave CFOs.
(19:26):
A lot of firms have CIOs.
Right, I want to have somebodyfor the IT side, somebody that
knows all of this stuff, thatcan implement what we're doing.
Sometimes they call them, Ithink, ctos as well.
I think I just made my ownacronym, but that's all right.
The whole thing is an IT guy.
That's better than I am.
Yeah, and sort of that.
The safety encryption side.
So now you have the person whois the professional on the IT
(19:49):
side can talk about what kind ofencryption do we have?
Are we sock compliant?
Right, sometimes, depending ontheir practice, if firms are
debt collectors, consumerprotection firms, things like
that they require higher levelsof protection on the back end,
like think about whateverservice you use.
Are you on AWS cloud, theAmazon service?
(20:09):
Are you on Microsoft?
What are you using and what aretheir compliance features look
like?
Are they certified?
Do you need that certification?
There's so many people who arein that space right now that can
really help you if you justreach out.
And that tie it back to whatsolutions are you looking at.
Is there anything we can do toconsolidate those solutions so
that they all work together?
(20:31):
Because the last thing you wantis to be in love with a software
program and all of a suddenit's not compliant and you
missed it.
You know, and now you're like,oh God, we missed it somehow
because we love the features,the sizzle, you know, the all
the cool what's it called thebuttons that you have and oh my
God, it does this, it does thatand we forgot to ask about the
(20:52):
nerdy financial or I'd see stuffin the back end and I think
that making sure that you havesome sort of checklist or some
sort of running comparison,right Like I know that the
people at Leap we created aneGuide, and what I love about
the eGuide is it's very agnostic.
It doesn't say, like, get thisbecause Leap has it, even though
, okay, yes, we do have it, butwe didn't say that we're giving
(21:15):
you the list of what you shouldbe looking for because we want
you to compare and we want youto find the thing that's best
for you.
You know so that eGuide goesover everything, like talks
about your time management, yourtime capture.
If you're not a time capturefirm, skip it.
Go on to the next one.
Like what are you doing forrecords management?
How much storage?
Are you paying for storage?
(21:35):
Are you paying for backups?
These are all things that everysingle firm, irrespective of
which one you end up choosing,you need to think about this
stuff, and one of the pagestalks about accounting on
operating side, on trustaccounting side and all of the
other things you need, so havingsomething that you can go to,
where these people have beendoing it for a while.
You know like they've beenhelping firms for 30 something
(21:56):
years and we kind of know sortof how to guide you.
I think that that's reallyimportant.
So the people that you employand the specifics and the sort
of specialties that they have.
But also how are you looking atthings and do you have some
sort of guide that you make sureyou don't miss any boxes that
you have to check off?
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Yeah, and this is great because it's this really
ties into like a lot of episodesthat we've done recently about
you know, finding like your zoneof genius, for example, like
only focus on things that youlike and are good at and, you
know, outsource the rest, getfractional help, right, you know
.
You know, lean in on yourstrengths and surround yourself
(22:35):
with teams and people who cantake care of the things that
you're you're weak at or thatyou don't like doing or you're
not good at doing, and so just areally good, good reminder
there.
Just you know, and again, allthis help is out there, you know
, you just got to make, you know, talk about deciding to be
efficient.
You got to decide to get thathelp as well.
So one of the last things Iwant to ask you about, you know
(22:58):
we talked so much about,especially on, you know, with
spotlight branding and makingpeople look like the expert.
You know, and I think, a lot oflawyers, you know they want to
be considered the legal expert,but you guys talk about also
being an expert at the clientexperience.
So, as we wrap up here, youknow, tell us, you know, what
you guys mean by that and whatdoes it look like to be a client
experience expert.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Yeah, client experience, right, that's like
100%.
Every business wants to havethe chance to say, hey, we've
been doing this for a while.
We only specialize in familylaw cases.
We only do workers calm cases,because that's going to make the
client feel like, wow, I havethis issue and this person.
That's all they see every day.
And part of that is saying well, how do we show you that we're
(23:43):
successful?
Because I can show you myresume, I can show you my CV.
You can take a look at ourwebsite and you'll already know
we're kind of experts in whatwe're doing, right.
But, like, how do we show that?
Like, show that to clients andexpress that to clients.
And one of the biggest ways ishaving a retainer agreement that
sort of manages and listseverything out in specific.
Right, what is your engagement?
(24:04):
How are you helping this client?
Like, make sure they understandthe nature of the relationship,
what you're going to do, whatyou're not going to do, what can
we talk about?
If it comes up right, like, alot of lawyers will take on a
flat V case and then, if thisgoes to trial, we need to sort
of have another talk about this,because that changes the game,
right, it's going to change whatI need from you and it's going
(24:25):
to change what you need from me,and I think, being clear on the
front end, people appreciatehonesty, they appreciate
transparency.
All of us do as people and asconsumers, and I think just
having sort of like everythingin order when it comes to
retainer agreements, engagementagreements, fees and costs right
, like not just what you'redoing.
What are you going to cover forme?
Are you going to charge meevery single time you file
(24:48):
something at court, or am Igoing to see that at the end of
the month?
These are all things that theyseem super common sense, but
clients need to know whatthey're getting into, because
the last thing you want is tosend something where you thought
you talked to them about it,but maybe it wasn't clear, and
now they received an invoice.
And now you're asking them for$1,200 filing fees and service
of process which, by the way,are all legitimate costs that
(25:11):
the firm you know advanced, butthey didn't know they had to
cover it.
Now.
They thought it was going to becovered later.
And now do you look like anexpert or do you look as
organized as you would havewanted to look?
And that's?
That's the whole thing right.
We want to make sure we crossour T's and daughter eyes every
step of the way and it seemslike it's definitely cover that
out right.
(25:31):
And how about?
How about?
Like payments?
Right, like showing that you'rean expert means what you talked
about earlier.
We've already thought about thisstuff.
We've already seen that we needhelp with the way that we
receive payments to and we wantto make it easier to do.
But that's fine, because we'reexperts and we understand that
we have to give you the mostsimple experience.
We got your back, we'rehandling it right.
(25:52):
So for a firm on the revenueside, you want to make sure you
receive your payments quicker,but for that you got to make
sure your billing is donequicker.
And if you're chasing, if you'rean office manager, chasing your
lawyers, guys, where's yourtime, where's your time from
July people, for July time inthe beginning of August that
(26:12):
thing should have been enteredalready.
So what happens?
And you think the client'sgonna be happy to get a
humongous bill for two monthsworth of time, like holy, you
know.
Like I don't have that money.
Like why is it so big?
Why didn't I get it last month?
So all of that's clientexperience.
Like how do you feel customerservice?
How about when you call I thinkyou mentioned that earlier like
if I'm calling and I have topress 17 buttons, you know Like
(26:36):
I will.
I won't name my insurancecompany, but let me tell you it
is a nightmare every time I calland it's like pressing a bunch
of buttons.
God forbid, my dog sneezes inthe background.
There goes the, there goes theautomation, right?
They thought they heardsomething else.
You don't need people to befrustrated just to ask you a
question.
So do you have a client portal,right?
(26:57):
That helps the clientexperience, because now they
feel like they can talk to you,they can upload things and you
kind of give them the feeling of24 7 service without having to
work 24 hours, right?
So there's a lot of things.
It's it's the payments, theretainer is being clear on
expectations and managing theExpectations and them making.
Also making them feel likeyou're always there for them in
(27:20):
some way.
You know.
Yeah all of those things I thinklead to like a healthier and
happier client experienceoverall.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Yeah, and the last point you made is so important
because I mean just me as aconsumer.
Any time I've had to work witha law firm, my biggest complaint
has always just been a lack ofcommunication.
No-transcript, you know, likethe, and I understand, cause I
almost kind of think the sameway right, like you could be
working on a case and there justmay not be any updates.
(27:49):
Right, there's nothing toupdate.
So what's the point of mecommunicating that?
Well, the people on the otherend don't understand that you
know, the guy who's worriedabout his case, right, yeah,
exactly.
I mean, like I've told thisstory before, right, like I had
a traffic ticket and the courtday kept getting pushed back,
you know, a couple of times, andthen it got to a point where
(28:12):
the last date I had heard cameand went and I didn't hear
anything from anybody.
And I'm sitting here wondering,like, logically, I could assume
that everything got taken careof, but at the same time there's
this voice in the back of myhead.
It's like is there a warrantout for my arrest right now?
Because if I fail to appear,and you know, and I had to reach
(28:33):
out on multiple occasions justto get that update, and so you
know, have a system in place tocommunicate.
Even if the update is, there isnothing to update right now.
It's just that peace of mindthat keeps people, you know,
going back and forth there.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
Oh, totally.
Even.
Like when you don't have ananswer, right?
Like, let's say, you asked aquestion, they don't have an
answer.
Just hearing from a paralegalthat says guys, I asked
so-and-so, we have emailed them,we've called them twice, I'm
waiting on their response, Ipromise I'm on top of it, even
that makes you feel good.
It's not even an answer, but atleast they're working on it.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Yeah, so this has been really great.
A ton of great information here, as always.
How can people learn more aboutLeap and where should they go?
Speaker 3 (29:14):
Sure, if you want to learn more about Leap, you can
go to leapus for our generalwebsite.
They can also email me if theyhave any questions.
My name is Julie Perez.
That's julieperezleapus.
You have any questions, maybeabout what we spoke about, or if
you do want us to send you ane-guide or anything like that,
I'm happy to answer anyquestions because, honestly,
(29:36):
I've been helping law firm sinceI graduated.
I feel like it's like mycalling in life and I just love
hearing about the way people areworking and really we're better
together.
Right, I feel like we have tosort of help each other.
Like you said, get the bestpeople that do the best
expertise and let's match themup, and it's been super fun to
do this First time, by the way.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Yeah, no, I mean, you're a pro.
You did great.
You know, never would haveknown that it was the first time
.
So one final question for youbefore we do wrap up.
If you had one final piece ofadvice for our listeners, what
would it be?
Speaker 3 (30:07):
I would say, besides deciding to be efficient and
engaging technology, part ofthat is getting out of your
comfort zone and for me inparticular, it's been networking
on things like LinkedIn.
I think it's so importantbecause part of what we said
finding those experts, findingthe people that have already
sort of mastered a little tinypiece of what you need.
(30:27):
It is so important to reach outto these people and just follow
them, see what they're posting,see who they're connected with
and what are their networkslooking like.
You never know what you'll find.
It's been so amazing for me ingrowing my own personal business
and then myself as just aperson, right Like I've learned
so much by just getting out ofmy comfort zone, deciding to be
(30:49):
efficient and saying you knowwhat networking is weird, but
I'm gonna try it.
I'm gonna try it and nobody hasto see my face because it's
just LinkedIn.
Things like LinkedIn.
I'm telling you it's huge.
If you can just take a step outand network, it's gonna change
things for the better.
That's one of the things Icould say.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Absolutely.
Yeah, I couldn't agree moreWell.
This has been fantastic.
Thank you all out there forcontinuing to listen.
If you have not done so yet,please leave a rating and review
wherever you are listening.
It does really help to show outand help us get out in front of
more people and help morelawyers like you.
And that's gonna do it, julie.
Thanks so much for joining usThanks, John.
Thanks for listening.
(31:26):
To learn more, go tospotlightbrandingcom slash
center stage.
Hey guys, thanks.
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