November 8, 2023 • 28 mins
Get ready to be inspired as we discuss the power of understanding others, building credibility, and how having diverse passions paired with self-belief can lead to you chasing your dreams (even if that means no longer being a lawyer).
This week we're joined by career coach Nicole Andrews and explore how disrupting the status quo can create unforeseen opportunities. Nicole emphasizes the necessity of a versatile skill set and the courage to advocate for yourself, especially when self-doubt creeps in.
Lastly, Nicole imparts wisdom on finding purpose amidst career disruption and setting work-life boundaries to circumvent burnout. Gain insight into how disrupting your career, whether by choice or force, can act as a positive force of change. Discover strategies to define your career roles, break free from the 'status trap', and take significant steps towards your career progression.
Learn more about Nicole and the work she does by visiting www.thenicoleandrews.com
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
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Speaker 2 (00:53):
This is Center Stage putting your firm in the
spotlight by highlightingbusiness owners and other
industry experts to help takeyour firm to the next level.
Hey everyone, and welcome toCenter Stage.
I'm your host, john Henson, andthis week we are building on a
concept that we have talkedabout a couple of times on this
show before, and that is yourstory.
(01:14):
And so last year we talkedabout crafting a purposeful
story, in episode 84 with TamikaBickham.
Earlier this year, in episode121, we talked with Chris
Vanderkay about how to tell yourstory, and so this week I
wanted to discuss how you canactually own that story and
really be confident in it andreally make it yours, so where
(01:37):
you really believe in it and itreally does become a part of
your firm's identity, yourmarketing message, whatever the
case may be.
And so to help us with that, Iam joined by a career coach and
consultant, nicole Andrews.
Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Thank you so much, John.
I'm happy to be here Awesome.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
So tell us a little bit about yourself.
What's your background?
How did you get into this andbecome so passionate about
helping people own their story?
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Yeah, so my background is in corporate, so I
took the traditional path.
After college I went into salesand did that for about five
years and eventually moved intoan HR's talent style role which
pretty much defined my entirecareer.
Just love seeing people succeedand watching their own
development in sales.
It's all about our commissionsand what we're making every
(02:27):
month and kind of starting over,and I was always curious, john,
about what made people succeedand what made them unsuccessful
in any role, and so I waswatching the sales reps that
were rocking it out and noticingthings and patterns, and I
wanted to be able to do that ina role that would have a broader
impact across all of thedivisions and departments in our
(02:48):
company.
So it worked out for me that Ihad worked in sales for five
years because when I moved intothe HR role I had to interview
for a role.
I was always the one that theywould point everyone to with the
job fair and say, hey, talk toher, she's worked in sales.
And so it worked out because Ihad the practical business
experience and so that'ssomething that really helped me
understand.
(03:08):
Just understanding what peopledo, not just on the surface, but
really living what they do isimportant to help them as they
develop too, because it givesyou credibility and make you
relatable.
And I would kind of fastforward to my final role before
I moved into my business, whichwas a vice president of HR.
So I would serve as a VP of HR,reporting into the CEO, a
(03:31):
multi-state architectural firm,and what was interesting about
that?
It was right during the pandemicwhere I started to realize,
like there's so much happening,I'm gonna have to choose.
Obviously, there was a lot onme and my team, hr, will tell
you if you talk to anyone in HR.
The pandemic really took a tollon us.
(03:51):
But I would say personally,from a career standpoint, I knew
that at some point I could notdo both like my business on the
side, because I started it in2019, while I was still in
corporate, moving up the ladder,and I just decided to bet on
myself.
So if you simmer 2021, I walkedinto the CEOs, into the room,
(04:14):
the meeting, and just said, hey,it wasn't that simple, but I
did my hands trembling, my kneeshaking, basically handed over
my resignation, and they knewthat I was doing this work, and
so that was one of the thingsthat they liked about me that I
had all of these differentpassion areas, but I don't think
they knew I was going to takethe lead that quickly because
(04:35):
I'd been there for two years.
So I gave them about two and ahalf years.
I left in March of 2022 and therest is history.
I've been on this path of careercoaching women who are primary
red winners or sole red winners,or women who are just feeling
like they're not really utilizedfully, they're not really
valued fully in the corporatespace For whatever reason,
(04:58):
whether that's their ownself-worth or whether that's
something external in theenvironment that's not
supporting them.
And then, on the flip side ofthat, working with companies as
an organizational consultant Ihave an MBA and a master's in HR
development as well.
So going into organizations andreally looking at leadership
development and how thoseleaders are impacting the
(05:18):
development and the potentialand the opportunities for their
people, so that hopefully, thattranslates into our ROI of
attraction of talent, retentionof talent and also development
and advancement of talent.
So I hope that wasn't too long,but that's my path.
That's my journey.
In a nutshell, high level as Ican be.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Awesome.
No, it's great.
So when we're talking now abouthow someone can own their story
, at least for me, there's acouple of different ways to look
at it.
There's that marketing side ofit and just being able to
communicate that and really makethat connection with people in
(05:58):
terms of how you help.
But there's another way oflooking at it, and where we'll
start here, in terms of how youjust shared with your own story,
is where it all begins,especially as it relates to
going out on your own.
So I think this is reallyapplicable, especially for,
maybe, people who are listeningwho work for a larger firm, or
(06:18):
maybe they're an associated, asmaller, mid-sized firm, and
they're thinking about going outon their own.
I know one of the things thatyou talk about is purposely
disrupting the status quo andhow a lot of people otherwise
get comfortable in their currentsituation, whether it's ideal
or not, even if they're nothappy.
It's what they know, and a lotof times, people will just stay
(06:41):
in that because it's what theyknow, even if there are better
opportunities out there.
In your opinion, what is theadvantage, then, of what you
call disrupting the status quo,and where does that lead to?
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Yeah, so the advantage of disrupting the
status quo.
When we think about thecompanies that have really
broken the mold, I'm going to goto Apple, for example.
Apple broke the mold with theiPhone.
Apple broke the mold with CDs.
They changed the game.
I remember when I got my firstiPod, john, and it's like, oh my
gosh, I can hold hundreds ofsongs on this little device.
(07:16):
Who thought of CDs?
At the end of the day, when youthink about great companies,
when you think about individualswho've been very successful and
profound in our world, theyreally are disruptors.
I think conformity is reallythat safety.
We want that safety, we wantthe security.
That's why the pandemic hit sohard for a lot of people too,
(07:37):
because we didn't have certaintyanymore.
We didn't know what was aroundthe corner.
We didn't know how long thiswas going to last.
I think about that need toconform, that need to feel
comfortable, is what keeps a lotof people in a place where they
know.
I think it's.
Gay Hendricks has a book calledthe Big Leap.
If you search Big Leap, peoplecan find it, but he talks about
(07:59):
these different zones.
He talks about the zone ofincompetence, the zone of
competence, the zone of like.
There's another zone, and thenI forget the fourth zone, but
the last zone is the zone ofgenius.
I realized for me personally Iwas operating in a zone of
excellence, in a zone ofcompetence I was doing very well
.
(08:19):
If someone's listening to thispodcast today, hopefully you'll
be inspired just through.
You may be doing something thatyou're very, very good at and
people have said that you'revery, very good at but deep down
there's something that youabsolutely can be number one, be
best at, because you're so goodat it, you're so passionate
(08:40):
about it, your purpose alignswith it.
It's something that no oneprobably knows that you do, or
you do it so easily that it justcomes so easily for you that
people, even if they know theydon't realize wow, this person
should be doing this, not this.
It's just one of those thingswhere disruption, for me, is
really about how do I not settleon my morals?
(09:02):
How do I not?
I don't want to be content, butI have someone saying to call
it's okay to basicallycongratulate yourself and
celebrate your accomplishments.
I will say that's a challengewith disruptors, because
sometimes we don't know how tosit still and just celebrate
where we are and celebrate thewins.
But I also am never going to becontent.
(09:25):
I think there's so many people Iremember I'll share this quick
story and then I'll stop.
I remember someone one of myclients actually talking about
an individual that she knewduring the pandemic who lost her
job.
She had been with the companyfor 15 years and they later off
during the pandemic.
She had no idea what was next,she had no idea what to do.
(09:48):
She had no idea how totranslate her skill set into
something new.
That's why I think disruptionis so important.
If you didn't get anything else,it's important because
disruption can look likebuilding a new skill AI.
It could be learning AI andapplying that to your role.
No matter what your role is,disruption can look like oh my
(10:08):
gosh, I'm going to ask for thispromotion, even though I know
I'm not necessarily ready for itand check all in the boxes, I'm
going to ask for it anyway.
Disruption can mean actuallybeing calm when everyone else is
chaotic and people notice that,and then you're set up to lead
an effort that they need,someone who can steady everyone
(10:30):
and get everyone going in thesame direction.
So disruption can mean a lot ofthings, but to me, that's why
we disrupt is because it'salmost, if you don't, we've seen
I don't want to say names, youcan cut this out if you need to
but we've seen blockbuster,that's my favorite story of like
why did blockbuster go?
(10:51):
We've seen towards arrest Again.
If we don't adapt, then as anindividual, as a corporation, we
will be left behind.
Especially with theacceleration of change.
It's only going to get evenfaster.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Yeah, and it's also one of those things where I
think a lot of people hear theword disruption and they see it
as a negative thing, Likeespecially just society-wide the
term disruption has a negativeconnotation, but it's not
necessarily the case.
It's another word for change,and whether that change is
forced or you're more proactivein creating that change, it
(11:29):
definitely doesn't have to be anegative thing.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Yes, that's why I say purposeful, Like it's
purposeful disruption,intentional disruption.
And again, as I said,disruption doesn't have to be
something that you're goingagainst the mold.
You may actually be the onethat's studying people.
So disruption it's funny thatyou say that, because a lot of
people have said what doesdisruption mean?
You're the career disruptor.
(11:53):
They think I'm going to come inand tell all other people to
run for the hills and I'm likeno, I believe in the value of
work.
I believe that that's a part ofour purpose and what we do.
I just don't think everyone'saligned in the right seat on the
bus to do the work that theycan truly do well, well in this
world, and so that's what I'mpassionate about is helping
people find that path.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yeah, and so then understandably, though you know
whether the that disruption isforced or they're thinking about
it there's a lot of nerves andanxiety around that.
You know there's so manyunknowns.
I was like, oh man, what if Imake this big change and I end
up in a situation where I'm evenmore unhappy than I am now, or
stuff like that.
But you're, you know, I knowyou talk a lot about how,
(12:37):
regardless, you know, havingthat disruption can still be a
big catalyst for positive change.
So talk about how that happens.
You know, even even in asituation, or you know, or how
you even talk to someone who isworried about how they may end
up in a situation that was worsethan their original one that
they were trying to get out ofin the first place.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Yeah.
So I have a client who she'samazing, one of my former
clients who was she was tryingto determine.
She was in academia and she wastrying to determine what should
she do, like she was on thecity council, she's in academia,
she was in all of thesedifferent things, but when she
came to me she was like I reallydon't know if I want to be in
(13:23):
academia anymore.
I don't know if I want to stay.
I feel like I don't want to bein the classroom in the way that
I am.
I want to move intoadministration, and so we talked
about that and, after working,of course, together for many
months, what we came to realizeis that, after three things I'll
tell people one is we reallyunpacked our vision If you're
not clear on who you are, mostpeople don't even know who they
(13:45):
are or what they want.
They can tell you what theydon't want.
Like if I ask what do you notwant for dinner tonight, you'd
probably tell me I don't wantthis, I don't want this, I don't
want this, but I'm not reallysure what I want, but you tell
me all the things you don't want.
It's the same thing with ourcareer, right?
People can tell you, I don'twant to do this, I don't want to
do that.
But when you say, well, what doyou want?
I don't know.
(14:06):
So what we do is get clear onvision, and so we worked through
the vision exercise, visionframework for her, and so she
got really clear on who she was,and then we moved into purpose,
and what was interesting abouther is that she was like I
really do like the students, Ifeel like they energize me.
I just don't want to do itevery day.
And so we started talking aboutother opportunities and what
(14:29):
she enjoyed, and one of thethings that we discovered was
that she loved being in front ofthe camera.
So she wasn't a traditionalprofessor where she liked, like
she wanted to be in media too,and it was an interesting twist
because once we started todefine her purpose and what her
mission was, she was like Ireally feel like the work that I
do.
People have interviewed her forthe work that she does.
(14:50):
She was like I really want to bein front of people, telling
them about wellness, tellingthem about all of these
different things, and I said,okay, well, that's your path,
like that's a part of your path.
You can still do these otherthings.
But if this is not here, itseems like you're not passionate
, right?
So number two is finding yourpurpose and aligning that with
the work that you do.
(15:10):
It doesn't mean that you haveto.
A lot of people say, burn thevotes.
I had a coach tell me that too,and I did it.
But you don't always have toburn the votes, john, and I
think that's what's shifting too.
Is that?
The third piece is that thereare more and more people who are
willing to allow you to doother things and other passion
projects while you are stillworking in a full-time job.
(15:32):
The company that I worked withthey had a lot of company or a
lot of individual employees whohad other interests, and they
supported that.
So the biggest thing is makingsure, obviously, that you don't
take away from your primary role, but all of that to say,
finding your vision, gettingclear on purpose and not shying
away, not burning the votes ifyou don't have to right away,
(15:55):
giving yourself some space toexplore and what I call career
experimentation.
We don't do enoughexperimentation to see what we
really like.
So, if you don't know what youlike, experiment with different
things, start exploring, startdoing something different that
you wouldn't typically do thisindividual client.
Going back to her reallyquickly, she actually has been
contacted by Harvard, has beencontacted by Stanford.
(16:17):
Now she's been contacted byseveral individuals to serve on
panels related to the work thatshe does based on her PhD, and
some of it is because of thework that she's been doing in
the media.
Her videos are attracting a lotof people and a lot of likes
and a lot of attention, which weknow also in your career is
important too.
You need attention and you needa brand, no matter what you do.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Yeah, no, I completely agree, and I'm glad
you mentioned that, because Ithink, selfishly speaking,
that's one of the things that Ithink we at Spotlight Braining,
internally, have done reallywell, in that we have created
this environment where I thinkpeople can feel comfortable
pursuing their outside passions,because I mean, look, we'll be
(17:03):
honest, I don't think anyone whoworks here had the dream as a
child oh, my gosh, my dream inlife is to market for lawyers.
No, no, it's just, it's aservice that needs to be done,
but it's not a more I don't know, I don't know the term.
(17:23):
It's not like being a policeofficer or a firefighter or a
pilot or these things thatpeople dream of being right, and
so we have this really goodenvironment.
I mean, for me personally, it'sallowed me to write and publish
all of these history books thatI've written the last several
years, because I'm in anenvironment where I feel like I
can do that.
So that's really, really gladthat you mentioned that.
(17:47):
Another thing, though, that Iwanna hear from you on, because
I talked to some of theselawyers a lot of times, and they
don't a lot of them feel likethey don't have a story.
They just like, oh well, I'm alawyer, I just do this, this is
just what I do, or whatever.
And as I'm talking, I wonder ifthere's also some sort of
(18:08):
correlation, because there's somany studies about the legal
industry in terms of burnout andpoor mental health, and so I
don't know if there's acorrelation between not feeling
that story and owning that storyand feeling connected to it and
experiencing more of thatburnout or not.
But I'm really curious to getyour thoughts on that.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Yes, and owning the story you mean owning their
story in terms of their journeyand what they really want to do
when they're cured?
Yeah, yes, so that's aninteresting question, john.
To be honest, I've neverthought about how that could
cause burnout, because typicallywhen you think about burnout,
there's different definitions ofit and it's typically related
(18:49):
to work.
So if we think about thetechnical, like the scientific
or the wellness part of burnout,it's really tied to the work
that we do.
We say burnout but it's reallytied to the work, and I look at
it as you don't see an end insight or what's on your plate.
So when you feel like you are,there is no way that you could
ever ever complete everythingthat you have to get done.
(19:11):
That creates anxiety, thatcreates this sense of like,
almost despair, like I willnever be able to do all the
things that I need to do to getinto a place where I have value,
where I have harmony.
So when I think about owningyour story, a part of that is
owning the fact that, hey,something has to change.
And maybe I like the termwork-life boundaries because I
(19:34):
don't think balance is possible.
Some people can debate that andargue that I think balance is
possible if everything is equaland you have all of the support
and resources that you need.
Maybe, but I think it's aboutwork-life boundaries.
So to me, owning your story isreally how do you come back to
burnout?
It's saying well, this is myseason of life right now.
(19:54):
And maybe your story is I wannashift back, I wanna shift my
hours a little bit, and so thatcould be.
This is I'm gonna go and askcan I shift my schedule or can I
do job sharing with someoneelse?
Can we share the load?
Like, how can we thinkcreatively about our work and
what we do so we don't burn out?
(20:16):
Owning your story can also bewhen I think about attorneys,
because I do have some attorneyclients, but I think about
attorneys there's so like againI think I go back to
professional services as a whole.
There's a lot of hours, it'sbillable.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
It's.
You know it's like you're notbilling, but that's a huge gap
right, there's an issue there.
If you're not charging, ifyou're not billing, there's not
a lot of room for admin and allthese other pieces.
So for me, the owning storypiece is really about helping
people understand what is theirpath, what is their role, how
does this fit within their lifeand how can they balance or set
(20:59):
boundaries in a way to wherethey're not dwelling their
career.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Yeah, yeah.
And so to kind of begin to puta bow on this, you know, for
people who might feel likethey're kind of in that
environment right now, whetherthey're working for a larger
firm and they're ready for thatdisruption, maybe they own their
own firm and they're maybethinking about getting out of,
you know, that legal professionaltogether and pursuing
(21:25):
something else.
Because we've had some clientsof ours who have said like I
just can't do this anymore, Ineed to just change paths
altogether.
You know how can these people,you know what can they do to
maybe, you know, find that voiceor support themselves others
around them?
You know what kind of you know,when people are kind of at that
point, what do you do to helpthem?
Speaker 3 (21:48):
Yeah.
So when people are really stuckon what to do next, again, I
shared the vision and purposeinitially, so that's a part of
it.
One of the things that I wouldrecommend that people do is
really go and define three rolesthat you like, three roles that
you're like.
If I could map out any role,what would those be Like?
If these are three differentpaths and I'm going to give you
(22:09):
a practical example, because Ireally do if you're stuck and
you're listening to this rightnow, I believe you may challenge
me, but I believe that you knowdeep down what you really
really want to do.
There's just something, maybe inyour environment, there's
something else.
Maybe your family and friendslike they'll say you're crazy
for doing this.
Why would you ever leave?
You've worked so hard for this.
(22:30):
This is prestigious.
You have a status, and it'swhat I call the status trap,
because some people get into thestatus trap.
Well, I have this big title andI have this big degree or this
big role or this income.
The financial piece can keepyou in the status trap for good
reasons, right.
But what I would challenge youto do is think about three
potential paths that you couldtake, three things that you
(22:51):
could potentially do.
And so, to give you an example,going back to my story, years
ago, I thought about going backand getting my PhD as well, and
so once I started looking at thepros and cons of that and what
I really wanted to do in mycareer, I decided you know what?
That's a potential path if Iwanted to become a tenured
professor.
But I was like, well, I want todo consulting and writing and
(23:12):
speaking and all of these things.
So that's not necessarily theideal path, but that was one of
the paths that I mapped out.
A second path was well, I wantto be chief people officer in an
organization one day, like Iwas VP, yes, but I was like I
want to be a chief peopleofficer in the organization that
I was in.
That's technically what I was,because I only rolled into the
(23:33):
CEO, I was part of the C-suite,but still I was like I still
want to keep moving up in theorganization potentially.
So that was one path.
And then the other path was Iwant to be an entrepreneur.
But that's the path that wasthe scariest, that's the
disruptive path, that's theleast comfortable path, because
if you think that you're anorganization right now and that
(23:54):
it's hard and tough.
I've been there.
I get it.
Yes, there can be challengesand challenges.
You have to be politicallysavvy and navigate all of the
things, but entrepreneurship isthe scariest lead, personally,
that I've ever taken, and I'vespoken to so many other
entrepreneurs and we glamorizeit as well that people think, oh
my gosh, you can just go outthere and make a bunch of money
(24:14):
and it's like there's a lot ofrisk but there's also a lot of
reward with entrepreneurship.
But I would not.
I don't regret it, I would nothave chosen anything different,
but I had to assess which pathwould feed me the most in terms
of my own fulfillment and thelevel of impact that I could
make externally, but also thelevel of legacy that I can leave
(24:37):
internally with my family, andfor me, entrepreneurship is that
path.
So I would say, map out threepaths, map out three things and
think big.
It could be something that isnot a role right now that is in
place.
I mean, we didn't have digitalmarketing or SEO marketing or AI
analysts or specialists.
We didn't have any of thosethings 10, 15 years ago.
(24:58):
So think big.
Map out something that you knowthat there will be a need for
or that you know yourorganization has a need for now
and see if they'll let youtransition into that role
without having to take this bigrisk and leave.
See if you can do somethingwithin your organization.
Like my story at the beginning,I transitioned in my own
organization and stayed therefor almost 10 years total five
(25:20):
years in sales, five years in HRbecause that was.
It was just such as they knewmy work and I also could add
value because I knew other areasof the business.
So don't feel like you have tomake these moves.
Unless you really don't want toremain in the company, that's
okay too.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Yeah, absolutely, and you know it goes back to what
you talked about earlier withyour genius zone and really
finding you know what you'resuper, super good at and what
you really, really enjoy doing.
We actually had an episode onfiguring out what your genius
zone was a few weeks ago, so Iinvite everyone to go and check
that out as well.
So all this has been reallygreat.
(25:56):
How can people get in touchwith you to work with you and
learn more about the ways thatyou help?
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Yes, so you can find me at vnicholandruzecom.
So that's T-H-Enicholandruzecom.
John, if you don't mind, I haveto tell a quick story on that.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Yes, go for it.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
I tried to buy my domain like nicholandruzecom but
it's owned by someone else andI literally went through the
process of bidding for it didn'tget it.
So I had to choose theNicholandruze.
And because, again, the egopart was like I don't want
people to think like theNicholandruze but honestly, if I
could leave you all withanything, you are the only you
(26:33):
in this world.
I have a picture in my officethat says no one is you and that
is your superpower.
So you are the John Henson.
Even if there are other JohnHenson's, you are the John
Henson.
I am the Nicholandruze andowning your story.
This is a perfect wrap up forthis, because owning your story
is about owning that.
You are the whoever filling theblank with your name, and so
(26:56):
it's thenicholandruzecom for meand my email reach out to me
nicholandruzecom.
You can find all of the contactinformation there.
If you choose, you can alsofollow me on LinkedIn.
I haven't been on LinkedIn I'llbe honest in a while just due
to personal reasons, but I'mlooking to get back out there.
Linkedin is my kind of go-to onother platforms, but LinkedIn
(27:17):
is the place to find me at theNicholandruze official.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Awesome.
Yeah, no, I actually ran intothe same issue with my own like
side projects and stuff likethat, so I ended up taking the
John Henson like on Twitter andInstagram.
I did a different URL but causethere's some dude, some like
piano composer, whatever, Idon't know, but whatever, but I
can absolutely relate to thatand so I love that you shared
that.
Love.
(27:41):
That.
That's the note that we end on.
Definitely go check Nicole out,and you know she does a lot of
great speaking, has a lot ofgreat resources out there to
just help you out along thatjourney.
So that is gonna do it for usthis week.
Thanks so much for continuingto listen and we will see you
next week.
Nicole, thanks for joining us.
Thanks for listening.
To learn more, go tospotlightbrandingcom slash
(28:04):
center stage.
Thank you.
This podcast is brought to you by Spotlight
Branding.
Whether your firm only gets afew referrals or it's 100% of
your business, you have theopportunity to double your
referrals through educational,informative content.
The pros at Spotlight Brandingcan help you create that content
through blogging videos, emailnewsletters and more All
(00:22):
designed to help you increaseyour referrals and attract the
kinds of clients you want towork with.
Visit spotlightbrandingcomslash pod to learn more.
That's spotlightbrandingcomslash pod.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
This is Center Stage putting your firm in the
spotlight by highlightingbusiness owners and other
industry experts to help takeyour firm to the next level.
Hey everyone, and welcome toCenter Stage.
I'm your host, john Henson, andthis week we are building on a
concept that we have talkedabout a couple of times on this
show before, and that is yourstory.
(01:14):
And so last year we talkedabout crafting a purposeful
story, in episode 84 with TamikaBickham.
Earlier this year, in episode121, we talked with Chris
Vanderkay about how to tell yourstory, and so this week I
wanted to discuss how you canactually own that story and
really be confident in it andreally make it yours, so where
(01:37):
you really believe in it and itreally does become a part of
your firm's identity, yourmarketing message, whatever the
case may be.
And so to help us with that, Iam joined by a career coach and
consultant, nicole Andrews.
Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Thank you so much, John.
I'm happy to be here Awesome.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
So tell us a little bit about yourself.
What's your background?
How did you get into this andbecome so passionate about
helping people own their story?
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Yeah, so my background is in corporate, so I
took the traditional path.
After college I went into salesand did that for about five
years and eventually moved intoan HR's talent style role which
pretty much defined my entirecareer.
Just love seeing people succeedand watching their own
development in sales.
It's all about our commissionsand what we're making every
(02:27):
month and kind of starting over,and I was always curious, john,
about what made people succeedand what made them unsuccessful
in any role, and so I waswatching the sales reps that
were rocking it out and noticingthings and patterns, and I
wanted to be able to do that ina role that would have a broader
impact across all of thedivisions and departments in our
(02:48):
company.
So it worked out for me that Ihad worked in sales for five
years because when I moved intothe HR role I had to interview
for a role.
I was always the one that theywould point everyone to with the
job fair and say, hey, talk toher, she's worked in sales.
And so it worked out because Ihad the practical business
experience and so that'ssomething that really helped me
understand.
(03:08):
Just understanding what peopledo, not just on the surface, but
really living what they do isimportant to help them as they
develop too, because it givesyou credibility and make you
relatable.
And I would kind of fastforward to my final role before
I moved into my business, whichwas a vice president of HR.
So I would serve as a VP of HR,reporting into the CEO, a
(03:31):
multi-state architectural firm,and what was interesting about
that?
It was right during the pandemicwhere I started to realize,
like there's so much happening,I'm gonna have to choose.
Obviously, there was a lot onme and my team, hr, will tell
you if you talk to anyone in HR.
The pandemic really took a tollon us.
(03:51):
But I would say personally,from a career standpoint, I knew
that at some point I could notdo both like my business on the
side, because I started it in2019, while I was still in
corporate, moving up the ladder,and I just decided to bet on
myself.
So if you simmer 2021, I walkedinto the CEOs, into the room,
(04:14):
the meeting, and just said, hey,it wasn't that simple, but I
did my hands trembling, my kneeshaking, basically handed over
my resignation, and they knewthat I was doing this work, and
so that was one of the thingsthat they liked about me that I
had all of these differentpassion areas, but I don't think
they knew I was going to takethe lead that quickly because
(04:35):
I'd been there for two years.
So I gave them about two and ahalf years.
I left in March of 2022 and therest is history.
I've been on this path of careercoaching women who are primary
red winners or sole red winners,or women who are just feeling
like they're not really utilizedfully, they're not really
valued fully in the corporatespace For whatever reason,
(04:58):
whether that's their ownself-worth or whether that's
something external in theenvironment that's not
supporting them.
And then, on the flip side ofthat, working with companies as
an organizational consultant Ihave an MBA and a master's in HR
development as well.
So going into organizations andreally looking at leadership
development and how thoseleaders are impacting the
(05:18):
development and the potentialand the opportunities for their
people, so that hopefully, thattranslates into our ROI of
attraction of talent, retentionof talent and also development
and advancement of talent.
So I hope that wasn't too long,but that's my path.
That's my journey.
In a nutshell, high level as Ican be.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Awesome.
No, it's great.
So when we're talking now abouthow someone can own their story
, at least for me, there's acouple of different ways to look
at it.
There's that marketing side ofit and just being able to
communicate that and really makethat connection with people in
(05:58):
terms of how you help.
But there's another way oflooking at it, and where we'll
start here, in terms of how youjust shared with your own story,
is where it all begins,especially as it relates to
going out on your own.
So I think this is reallyapplicable, especially for,
maybe, people who are listeningwho work for a larger firm, or
(06:18):
maybe they're an associated, asmaller, mid-sized firm, and
they're thinking about going outon their own.
I know one of the things thatyou talk about is purposely
disrupting the status quo andhow a lot of people otherwise
get comfortable in their currentsituation, whether it's ideal
or not, even if they're nothappy.
It's what they know, and a lotof times, people will just stay
(06:41):
in that because it's what theyknow, even if there are better
opportunities out there.
In your opinion, what is theadvantage, then, of what you
call disrupting the status quo,and where does that lead to?
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Yeah, so the advantage of disrupting the
status quo.
When we think about thecompanies that have really
broken the mold, I'm going to goto Apple, for example.
Apple broke the mold with theiPhone.
Apple broke the mold with CDs.
They changed the game.
I remember when I got my firstiPod, john, and it's like, oh my
gosh, I can hold hundreds ofsongs on this little device.
(07:16):
Who thought of CDs?
At the end of the day, when youthink about great companies,
when you think about individualswho've been very successful and
profound in our world, theyreally are disruptors.
I think conformity is reallythat safety.
We want that safety, we wantthe security.
That's why the pandemic hit sohard for a lot of people too,
(07:37):
because we didn't have certaintyanymore.
We didn't know what was aroundthe corner.
We didn't know how long thiswas going to last.
I think about that need toconform, that need to feel
comfortable, is what keeps a lotof people in a place where they
know.
I think it's.
Gay Hendricks has a book calledthe Big Leap.
If you search Big Leap, peoplecan find it, but he talks about
(07:59):
these different zones.
He talks about the zone ofincompetence, the zone of
competence, the zone of like.
There's another zone, and thenI forget the fourth zone, but
the last zone is the zone ofgenius.
I realized for me personally Iwas operating in a zone of
excellence, in a zone ofcompetence I was doing very well
.
(08:19):
If someone's listening to thispodcast today, hopefully you'll
be inspired just through.
You may be doing something thatyou're very, very good at and
people have said that you'revery, very good at but deep down
there's something that youabsolutely can be number one, be
best at, because you're so goodat it, you're so passionate
(08:40):
about it, your purpose alignswith it.
It's something that no oneprobably knows that you do, or
you do it so easily that it justcomes so easily for you that
people, even if they know theydon't realize wow, this person
should be doing this, not this.
It's just one of those thingswhere disruption, for me, is
really about how do I not settleon my morals?
(09:02):
How do I not?
I don't want to be content, butI have someone saying to call
it's okay to basicallycongratulate yourself and
celebrate your accomplishments.
I will say that's a challengewith disruptors, because
sometimes we don't know how tosit still and just celebrate
where we are and celebrate thewins.
But I also am never going to becontent.
(09:25):
I think there's so many people Iremember I'll share this quick
story and then I'll stop.
I remember someone one of myclients actually talking about
an individual that she knewduring the pandemic who lost her
job.
She had been with the companyfor 15 years and they later off
during the pandemic.
She had no idea what was next,she had no idea what to do.
(09:48):
She had no idea how totranslate her skill set into
something new.
That's why I think disruptionis so important.
If you didn't get anything else,it's important because
disruption can look likebuilding a new skill AI.
It could be learning AI andapplying that to your role.
No matter what your role is,disruption can look like oh my
(10:08):
gosh, I'm going to ask for thispromotion, even though I know
I'm not necessarily ready for itand check all in the boxes, I'm
going to ask for it anyway.
Disruption can mean actuallybeing calm when everyone else is
chaotic and people notice that,and then you're set up to lead
an effort that they need,someone who can steady everyone
(10:30):
and get everyone going in thesame direction.
So disruption can mean a lot ofthings, but to me, that's why
we disrupt is because it'salmost, if you don't, we've seen
I don't want to say names, youcan cut this out if you need to
but we've seen blockbuster,that's my favorite story of like
why did blockbuster go?
(10:51):
We've seen towards arrest Again.
If we don't adapt, then as anindividual, as a corporation, we
will be left behind.
Especially with theacceleration of change.
It's only going to get evenfaster.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Yeah, and it's also one of those things where I
think a lot of people hear theword disruption and they see it
as a negative thing, Likeespecially just society-wide the
term disruption has a negativeconnotation, but it's not
necessarily the case.
It's another word for change,and whether that change is
forced or you're more proactivein creating that change, it
(11:29):
definitely doesn't have to be anegative thing.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Yes, that's why I say purposeful, Like it's
purposeful disruption,intentional disruption.
And again, as I said,disruption doesn't have to be
something that you're goingagainst the mold.
You may actually be the onethat's studying people.
So disruption it's funny thatyou say that, because a lot of
people have said what doesdisruption mean?
You're the career disruptor.
(11:53):
They think I'm going to come inand tell all other people to
run for the hills and I'm likeno, I believe in the value of
work.
I believe that that's a part ofour purpose and what we do.
I just don't think everyone'saligned in the right seat on the
bus to do the work that theycan truly do well, well in this
world, and so that's what I'mpassionate about is helping
people find that path.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yeah, and so then understandably, though you know
whether the that disruption isforced or they're thinking about
it there's a lot of nerves andanxiety around that.
You know there's so manyunknowns.
I was like, oh man, what if Imake this big change and I end
up in a situation where I'm evenmore unhappy than I am now, or
stuff like that.
But you're, you know, I knowyou talk a lot about how,
(12:37):
regardless, you know, havingthat disruption can still be a
big catalyst for positive change.
So talk about how that happens.
You know, even even in asituation, or you know, or how
you even talk to someone who isworried about how they may end
up in a situation that was worsethan their original one that
they were trying to get out ofin the first place.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Yeah.
So I have a client who she'samazing, one of my former
clients who was she was tryingto determine.
She was in academia and she wastrying to determine what should
she do, like she was on thecity council, she's in academia,
she was in all of thesedifferent things, but when she
came to me she was like I reallydon't know if I want to be in
(13:23):
academia anymore.
I don't know if I want to stay.
I feel like I don't want to bein the classroom in the way that
I am.
I want to move intoadministration, and so we talked
about that and, after working,of course, together for many
months, what we came to realizeis that, after three things I'll
tell people one is we reallyunpacked our vision If you're
not clear on who you are, mostpeople don't even know who they
(13:45):
are or what they want.
They can tell you what theydon't want.
Like if I ask what do you notwant for dinner tonight, you'd
probably tell me I don't wantthis, I don't want this, I don't
want this, but I'm not reallysure what I want, but you tell
me all the things you don't want.
It's the same thing with ourcareer, right?
People can tell you, I don'twant to do this, I don't want to
do that.
But when you say, well, what doyou want?
I don't know.
(14:06):
So what we do is get clear onvision, and so we worked through
the vision exercise, visionframework for her, and so she
got really clear on who she was,and then we moved into purpose,
and what was interesting abouther is that she was like I
really do like the students, Ifeel like they energize me.
I just don't want to do itevery day.
And so we started talking aboutother opportunities and what
(14:29):
she enjoyed, and one of thethings that we discovered was
that she loved being in front ofthe camera.
So she wasn't a traditionalprofessor where she liked, like
she wanted to be in media too,and it was an interesting twist
because once we started todefine her purpose and what her
mission was, she was like Ireally feel like the work that I
do.
People have interviewed her forthe work that she does.
(14:50):
She was like I really want to bein front of people, telling
them about wellness, tellingthem about all of these
different things, and I said,okay, well, that's your path,
like that's a part of your path.
You can still do these otherthings.
But if this is not here, itseems like you're not passionate
, right?
So number two is finding yourpurpose and aligning that with
the work that you do.
(15:10):
It doesn't mean that you haveto.
A lot of people say, burn thevotes.
I had a coach tell me that too,and I did it.
But you don't always have toburn the votes, john, and I
think that's what's shifting too.
Is that?
The third piece is that thereare more and more people who are
willing to allow you to doother things and other passion
projects while you are stillworking in a full-time job.
(15:32):
The company that I worked withthey had a lot of company or a
lot of individual employees whohad other interests, and they
supported that.
So the biggest thing is makingsure, obviously, that you don't
take away from your primary role, but all of that to say,
finding your vision, gettingclear on purpose and not shying
away, not burning the votes ifyou don't have to right away,
(15:55):
giving yourself some space toexplore and what I call career
experimentation.
We don't do enoughexperimentation to see what we
really like.
So, if you don't know what youlike, experiment with different
things, start exploring, startdoing something different that
you wouldn't typically do thisindividual client.
Going back to her reallyquickly, she actually has been
contacted by Harvard, has beencontacted by Stanford.
(16:17):
Now she's been contacted byseveral individuals to serve on
panels related to the work thatshe does based on her PhD, and
some of it is because of thework that she's been doing in
the media.
Her videos are attracting a lotof people and a lot of likes
and a lot of attention, which weknow also in your career is
important too.
You need attention and you needa brand, no matter what you do.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Yeah, no, I completely agree, and I'm glad
you mentioned that, because Ithink, selfishly speaking,
that's one of the things that Ithink we at Spotlight Braining,
internally, have done reallywell, in that we have created
this environment where I thinkpeople can feel comfortable
pursuing their outside passions,because I mean, look, we'll be
(17:03):
honest, I don't think anyone whoworks here had the dream as a
child oh, my gosh, my dream inlife is to market for lawyers.
No, no, it's just, it's aservice that needs to be done,
but it's not a more I don't know, I don't know the term.
(17:23):
It's not like being a policeofficer or a firefighter or a
pilot or these things thatpeople dream of being right, and
so we have this really goodenvironment.
I mean, for me personally, it'sallowed me to write and publish
all of these history books thatI've written the last several
years, because I'm in anenvironment where I feel like I
can do that.
So that's really, really gladthat you mentioned that.
(17:47):
Another thing, though, that Iwanna hear from you on, because
I talked to some of theselawyers a lot of times, and they
don't a lot of them feel likethey don't have a story.
They just like, oh well, I'm alawyer, I just do this, this is
just what I do, or whatever.
And as I'm talking, I wonder ifthere's also some sort of
(18:08):
correlation, because there's somany studies about the legal
industry in terms of burnout andpoor mental health, and so I
don't know if there's acorrelation between not feeling
that story and owning that storyand feeling connected to it and
experiencing more of thatburnout or not.
But I'm really curious to getyour thoughts on that.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Yes, and owning the story you mean owning their
story in terms of their journeyand what they really want to do
when they're cured?
Yeah, yes, so that's aninteresting question, john.
To be honest, I've neverthought about how that could
cause burnout, because typicallywhen you think about burnout,
there's different definitions ofit and it's typically related
(18:49):
to work.
So if we think about thetechnical, like the scientific
or the wellness part of burnout,it's really tied to the work
that we do.
We say burnout but it's reallytied to the work, and I look at
it as you don't see an end insight or what's on your plate.
So when you feel like you are,there is no way that you could
ever ever complete everythingthat you have to get done.
(19:11):
That creates anxiety, thatcreates this sense of like,
almost despair, like I willnever be able to do all the
things that I need to do to getinto a place where I have value,
where I have harmony.
So when I think about owningyour story, a part of that is
owning the fact that, hey,something has to change.
And maybe I like the termwork-life boundaries because I
(19:34):
don't think balance is possible.
Some people can debate that andargue that I think balance is
possible if everything is equaland you have all of the support
and resources that you need.
Maybe, but I think it's aboutwork-life boundaries.
So to me, owning your story isreally how do you come back to
burnout?
It's saying well, this is myseason of life right now.
(19:54):
And maybe your story is I wannashift back, I wanna shift my
hours a little bit, and so thatcould be.
This is I'm gonna go and askcan I shift my schedule or can I
do job sharing with someoneelse?
Can we share the load?
Like, how can we thinkcreatively about our work and
what we do so we don't burn out?
(20:16):
Owning your story can also bewhen I think about attorneys,
because I do have some attorneyclients, but I think about
attorneys there's so like againI think I go back to
professional services as a whole.
There's a lot of hours, it'sbillable.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
It's.
You know it's like you're notbilling, but that's a huge gap
right, there's an issue there.
If you're not charging, ifyou're not billing, there's not
a lot of room for admin and allthese other pieces.
So for me, the owning storypiece is really about helping
people understand what is theirpath, what is their role, how
does this fit within their lifeand how can they balance or set
(20:59):
boundaries in a way to wherethey're not dwelling their
career.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Yeah, yeah.
And so to kind of begin to puta bow on this, you know, for
people who might feel likethey're kind of in that
environment right now, whetherthey're working for a larger
firm and they're ready for thatdisruption, maybe they own their
own firm and they're maybethinking about getting out of,
you know, that legal professionaltogether and pursuing
(21:25):
something else.
Because we've had some clientsof ours who have said like I
just can't do this anymore, Ineed to just change paths
altogether.
You know how can these people,you know what can they do to
maybe, you know, find that voiceor support themselves others
around them?
You know what kind of you know,when people are kind of at that
point, what do you do to helpthem?
Speaker 3 (21:48):
Yeah.
So when people are really stuckon what to do next, again, I
shared the vision and purposeinitially, so that's a part of
it.
One of the things that I wouldrecommend that people do is
really go and define three rolesthat you like, three roles that
you're like.
If I could map out any role,what would those be Like?
If these are three differentpaths and I'm going to give you
(22:09):
a practical example, because Ireally do if you're stuck and
you're listening to this rightnow, I believe you may challenge
me, but I believe that you knowdeep down what you really
really want to do.
There's just something, maybe inyour environment, there's
something else.
Maybe your family and friendslike they'll say you're crazy
for doing this.
Why would you ever leave?
You've worked so hard for this.
(22:30):
This is prestigious.
You have a status, and it'swhat I call the status trap,
because some people get into thestatus trap.
Well, I have this big title andI have this big degree or this
big role or this income.
The financial piece can keepyou in the status trap for good
reasons, right.
But what I would challenge youto do is think about three
potential paths that you couldtake, three things that you
(22:51):
could potentially do.
And so, to give you an example,going back to my story, years
ago, I thought about going backand getting my PhD as well, and
so once I started looking at thepros and cons of that and what
I really wanted to do in mycareer, I decided you know what?
That's a potential path if Iwanted to become a tenured
professor.
But I was like, well, I want todo consulting and writing and
(23:12):
speaking and all of these things.
So that's not necessarily theideal path, but that was one of
the paths that I mapped out.
A second path was well, I wantto be chief people officer in an
organization one day, like Iwas VP, yes, but I was like I
want to be a chief peopleofficer in the organization that
I was in.
That's technically what I was,because I only rolled into the
(23:33):
CEO, I was part of the C-suite,but still I was like I still
want to keep moving up in theorganization potentially.
So that was one path.
And then the other path was Iwant to be an entrepreneur.
But that's the path that wasthe scariest, that's the
disruptive path, that's theleast comfortable path, because
if you think that you're anorganization right now and that
(23:54):
it's hard and tough.
I've been there.
I get it.
Yes, there can be challengesand challenges.
You have to be politicallysavvy and navigate all of the
things, but entrepreneurship isthe scariest lead, personally,
that I've ever taken, and I'vespoken to so many other
entrepreneurs and we glamorizeit as well that people think, oh
my gosh, you can just go outthere and make a bunch of money
(24:14):
and it's like there's a lot ofrisk but there's also a lot of
reward with entrepreneurship.
But I would not.
I don't regret it, I would nothave chosen anything different,
but I had to assess which pathwould feed me the most in terms
of my own fulfillment and thelevel of impact that I could
make externally, but also thelevel of legacy that I can leave
(24:37):
internally with my family, andfor me, entrepreneurship is that
path.
So I would say, map out threepaths, map out three things and
think big.
It could be something that isnot a role right now that is in
place.
I mean, we didn't have digitalmarketing or SEO marketing or AI
analysts or specialists.
We didn't have any of thosethings 10, 15 years ago.
(24:58):
So think big.
Map out something that you knowthat there will be a need for
or that you know yourorganization has a need for now
and see if they'll let youtransition into that role
without having to take this bigrisk and leave.
See if you can do somethingwithin your organization.
Like my story at the beginning,I transitioned in my own
organization and stayed therefor almost 10 years total five
(25:20):
years in sales, five years in HRbecause that was.
It was just such as they knewmy work and I also could add
value because I knew other areasof the business.
So don't feel like you have tomake these moves.
Unless you really don't want toremain in the company, that's
okay too.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Yeah, absolutely, and you know it goes back to what
you talked about earlier withyour genius zone and really
finding you know what you'resuper, super good at and what
you really, really enjoy doing.
We actually had an episode onfiguring out what your genius
zone was a few weeks ago, so Iinvite everyone to go and check
that out as well.
So all this has been reallygreat.
(25:56):
How can people get in touchwith you to work with you and
learn more about the ways thatyou help?
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Yes, so you can find me at vnicholandruzecom.
So that's T-H-Enicholandruzecom.
John, if you don't mind, I haveto tell a quick story on that.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Yes, go for it.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
I tried to buy my domain like nicholandruzecom but
it's owned by someone else andI literally went through the
process of bidding for it didn'tget it.
So I had to choose theNicholandruze.
And because, again, the egopart was like I don't want
people to think like theNicholandruze but honestly, if I
could leave you all withanything, you are the only you
(26:33):
in this world.
I have a picture in my officethat says no one is you and that
is your superpower.
So you are the John Henson.
Even if there are other JohnHenson's, you are the John
Henson.
I am the Nicholandruze andowning your story.
This is a perfect wrap up forthis, because owning your story
is about owning that.
You are the whoever filling theblank with your name, and so
(26:56):
it's thenicholandruzecom for meand my email reach out to me
nicholandruzecom.
You can find all of the contactinformation there.
If you choose, you can alsofollow me on LinkedIn.
I haven't been on LinkedIn I'llbe honest in a while just due
to personal reasons, but I'mlooking to get back out there.
Linkedin is my kind of go-to onother platforms, but LinkedIn
(27:17):
is the place to find me at theNicholandruze official.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Awesome.
Yeah, no, I actually ran intothe same issue with my own like
side projects and stuff likethat, so I ended up taking the
John Henson like on Twitter andInstagram.
I did a different URL but causethere's some dude, some like
piano composer, whatever, Idon't know, but whatever, but I
can absolutely relate to thatand so I love that you shared
that.
Love.
(27:41):
That.
That's the note that we end on.
Definitely go check Nicole out,and you know she does a lot of
great speaking, has a lot ofgreat resources out there to
just help you out along thatjourney.
So that is gonna do it for usthis week.
Thanks so much for continuingto listen and we will see you
next week.
Nicole, thanks for joining us.
Thanks for listening.
To learn more, go tospotlightbrandingcom slash
(28:04):
center stage.
Thank you.
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