June 12, 2023 • 21 mins
Ben Garthwaite serves as CEO of Fors Marsh and guides the company’s business growth and diversification. He cultivates a purpose-driven culture focused on using business as a force for good, with the belief that businesses must share responsibility for strengthening the systems in which we operate. He is committed to evolving company policies and practices so that each of Fors Marsh’s key stakeholder groups—community, client, employee, and planet—are positively impacted.
Under his leadership, Fors Marsh has earned B Corporation certification, has become a JUST employer, and received Top Workplace USA, the Northern Virginia Family Service CARE, and Inc. 5000 Hall of Fame awards, to name a few.
Over Ben’s tenure, Fors Marsh has grown from 20 employees and $5M in revenue to more than 400 employees with annual revenues exceeding $100M. Prior to joining Fors Marsh, he spent a decade in the technology industry supporting and leading programs serving military personnel and their families.
Under his leadership, Fors Marsh has earned B Corporation certification, has become a JUST employer, and received Top Workplace USA, the Northern Virginia Family Service CARE, and Inc. 5000 Hall of Fame awards, to name a few.
Over Ben’s tenure, Fors Marsh has grown from 20 employees and $5M in revenue to more than 400 employees with annual revenues exceeding $100M. Prior to joining Fors Marsh, he spent a decade in the technology industry supporting and leading programs serving military personnel and their families.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
And so I was born and raisedin the great state of Wisconsin and Milwaukee.
I went to school and at theUniversity of Wisconsin, which is pretty
closer there in Madison, and thencame out to DC area after I've been
here ever since. All Right,we've got a Badger in our midst so
look out. He's a Midwestern boy. Does that mean you're a Packer fan
(00:22):
too? I am. I am. It's not exactly the year to talk
it up too much, but youknow, we have our ups and downs
over the year. You've had somegood years though with Aaron Rodgers. I
know things are a little weird rightnow, but you've had a lot of
good years there. He's been alot of fun. He's never born in
Green Bay, I'll tell you thatmuch. When it comes to the football
team, well, listen, we'rehere to talk everything about Forrest marsh group.
(00:43):
And I didn't want to do thisbefore we do anything else. I
know that. You know, you'vebeen there for thirteen years and you've worked
your way up the system like alot of people doing a lot of leaders,
and you know, I can seeby your background and what you've done
about your attraction. When it comesto the company, and that's what I'm
always very interested. I see aboutwhat the company saw on you. But
(01:07):
what did you see in the companiessaid that I have to join this team.
Well, so, you know,I've been in and around government in
community from the you know, theyoungest age, right. My dad was
that the Departments of Veterans Affairs gavehis entire career service of Veterans pres retired
there. My mom was a socialworker and guidance counselor, so came out
(01:30):
to the DC area to work largelyin technology sector, but with military families
and personnel programs, and you know, I think I was at a company
that that had priorities that were largelyaround uh, you know, traditional shareholder
(01:51):
values, making your quarter numbers,and there was a lot of pressure on
that and I think Force Marsh atthat time was about twenty people, a
small company, but the priorities weredifferent. The priorities were around outcomes,
and it was a chance to gosomewhere and really have a voice in building
(02:12):
something that I believed in. Andso yeah, that was compelling. It
was a little risky, but youknow, it was a chance to set
a different trajectory. Well, there'sa common thread in all of our leaders
and CEOs that you just talked about, and that's taking a risk and a
lot of people have done it.If you go with your passion and you
take that chance and roll the dice, it might not work out sometimes,
(02:35):
but you know in your case itdid and that's wonderful. And I also
wanted you to speak to a littlebit on this in general terms, because
I understand that everybody's situation is differentwhen they join a company than moving up
the ranks from their passion to experienceto the timing of it a little luck.
But with all that said, ifyou were to impart any advice on
your ascension to CEO, what wouldyou give budding leaders out there to look
(02:57):
forward to, whether it's pitfalls orchallenges. I think for me it's been
about openness to growing from the firstday because I'm I mean, I don't
know what percentage of the way throughbeing the leader I have the potential to
be I am, but I gota long ways ahead of me as well,
and I think you know, ifthere's one thing that served me well,
(03:21):
it is entering every day, week, month, year and saying,
okay, how can I how canI learn how can be a better leader
tomorrow. And you know, forme, it's been a lot about it's
been about the team. It's notreally I mean, I my job as
much as as anything else, isabout representing the organization and making sure we're
(03:46):
all headed in the same direction.And we and it's the direction that we
believe in. But you know,they don't really work. People don't work
for me at Forest Marsh. I'mI have a rule to play amongst that
it's nowhere near the most critical role. Let's talk about mission statement. What
is that for Force Marsh? Sowe exist to bring lasting positive change?
(04:08):
And I admit that is a broad, high level statement, but it's an
important place to start. So youknow, then you got to go from
there and you got to say,well, what kind of change is that?
And how and so so what kindof change? We're talking about change
that improves people's lives and in everyinstance we can we are driving to get
(04:29):
at past the symptom to what arethe underlying systems that are at the route.
And so a small taste to thestuff we're working on. We're working
on reducing suicide among our military servicemembers. We're working on improving absentee ballot
processes and communications so that people overseascan have their voice heard. We're working
(04:50):
on helping prepare individuals and communities forpotential natural disasters and emergencies. We're working
to get more citizens to donate bloodin the midst of critical shortages. So
that's type of stuff we're doing.In terms of how do we do it
well, we're research first companies,so research isn't all we do, but
(05:13):
it is absolutely at the foundation ofhow we approach every challenge. So we
frame that. We frame our approachas listen, act and learn. So
listen is about that evidence, right, bringing voices to the table. Nothing
can be done without this step,acting that community. Number of things,
policy, it can be processed,training, technology, A lot of times
it's communication. I then learned backto the evidence, you know what worked,
(05:36):
what didn't, How do we improve? Always learned? Then I imagine
when you join thirteen plus years agoand there were only twenty people. You
know, you guys were just thatthat new feeling and all the ideas that
you had, and I imagine thegrowth has been exponential. And as I
look and I reread your gorgeous websiteby the way it's whoever did that is
(05:56):
that's impressive. By the way,we'll give the website at the end.
I'm sure people are googling already,but it is a beautiful website, easy
to navigate that helping people, thereare so many different avenues to do,
so I imagine you have to say, well, we got to pump the
bricks a little bit. Here,here are our past that we're going to
take, here's what we want todo. Here is my vision. So
I'm curious as a leader, andthere's so many different areas that you can
(06:17):
help people, and you just touchedon several of them. What cause you
to say, we can go inthis direction, but we have to be
careful about going in that direction withthe team. Yeah. You know,
well, it may seem like it'sbeen a rapid growth, you know,
really it's been steady actually, andit's been a few new clients every year.
And what happens is once we getin and start working with folks,
(06:40):
they see that working with us isdifferent, and I We're able to get
deeper and deeper into helping them addressand drive the outcomes that they want to
Ben let's talk about your very excitingpodcast that I know as a passion project,
Empathy Effect podcast. You can hearit on the iHeart podcast network.
But this is a great extension ofyour brand and great storytelling that you might
(07:02):
not get out in any other way. So please tell us how important this
podcast is and really what is itall about? Oh my gosh, yeah,
Empathy Effect. I am the biggestfan. It's so often I see
and hear government talked about in publicdiscourse, and it's from politicians, and
(07:23):
it clouds the incredible work that's actuallygoing on inside of government and the inspiring
people that have committed their careers toservice. And so our view is the
more we share their stories, theiragencies, programs, and priorities, the
better opportunity is for collaboration for betteroutcomes, whether that's within government or with
(07:45):
partners, greater understanding with the publicas well. So yeah, if you
list if you listen to to thepodcast, I'll tell you it's striking hearing
the stories and the commitment and andyeah, it's just something I'm really proud
to be part of. And Ithink we're just getting started on it um
and it's it's these are untold stories, you know, you hear about government,
(08:09):
but you don't hear from the folksthat are doing it day and day
out and their experiences and the passionthat comes through when they speak. It's
it's moving. I could hear itin your voice band, and I think
it's important. And once again thetitle of the podcast, Empathy Affect Podcast.
You know when we talk to radio, when we talk about podcasts or
social media, it's the same.For companies like yours, it's an extension
(08:31):
of your brand and gives you anopportunity to tell stories you might not normally
do that in everyday life. Soit makes so much sense about why you
do it and how powerful this forall the stories that you have to share
with people. Listen if if Ican't explain thirty seconds what we do,
listen to one of our podcasts.You'll hear how somebody's been affecting and how
(08:52):
it's changed your life. And thatmakes a lot of sense. Absolutely,
And it's and it's about those,uh, those civil servants, and they
our center stage and it's really atime to highlight them who too often are
behind the scenes, and you knowtheir message should be amplified. Let's talk
about the future. I know thateverybody's thinking ahead, and smart people like
(09:15):
you are always thinking five ten yearsahead of things, and we don't want
to get in anything that would beproprietary or secret or anything like that.
But with that said, as youlook at maybe some of the people that
you're going to help, maybe someof the different facets or directions that you
and the company might go, whatare you looking for in the future the
next five ten years That could bevery big for your company, for your
clients. But also you really haveyour eye and ear on well, there's
(09:37):
there are a couple of things thatI think stand out this. We could
have a long conversation on this one. I bet we I'll you know,
I'll narrow it down to a coupleof things. So one I think I
see us really continue to dig inon this topic of getting at the underlying
systems. You know, I'll tellyou. In twenty seventeen, we certified
(10:01):
as a b corp. And ifif you're not familiar with that, that
is a third party certification that looksat you the way that you balance all
of your stakeholders as a business,so not just your shareholders, but your
employees or clients, the planet,your community, and so to us,
(10:22):
that was a huge step in theevolution of the company, and a lot
of the things that we are seeingthat we are us and many others are
working to address in the world aroundus. Whether that's substance use disorder,
or it's inequity in wealth and income, or it's the climate emergency. These
(10:43):
are a lot of them are manmade, man made issues and their result
of and a lot of times greed. And so for us, if we
look at the way we are operatingour business and how many others are operating
their businesses in that manner, wecan get to system level change so we
(11:07):
can avoid having to do address allthese one off topics that continue to come
up as a result of the waythe system has been in the past.
More specific to a topic, weare going to be deeper and deeper.
In sud we've been invested really heavilyin the recovery aspects of that. What
(11:30):
we've found in our work in substitutedisorder is that the recovery aspects of it
are underinvested in. People talk tospend on treatment and prevention, and without
the recovery infrastructure, you have relapsed. And so there's a lot we can
do to take what is overlooked todayand bring it the resources the attention that
(11:56):
it needs. For all. I'mglad you talked about that last thing.
You know, somebody playing me severalmonths ago because I'm passionate about the homeless
issue. I live in the district, and I've lived on the West Coast
and it's it's blowing up in SanFrancisco and seat on Portland. It really
is an epidemic, and now southernCalifornia. And I know you're very well
over there that because it's one ofyour passion projects to take care of people.
(12:18):
But it was interesting how they explainedit to me about you know,
you just can't give homeless people someplaceto stay because a lot of these people
have mental health issues or there's drugissues, and about cleaning them out and
how you do that, and thereare so many different things before actually getting
them housing that you have to doto take care of people that I'm going
I really didn't realize how many layersthat were involved in this. And as
(12:39):
I think of all the things thatyou do, it's not simple what you
do with your team. There arelayers to try to figure out these problems,
diagnose them and then try and improvethe situation. It just blew my
head up by it. It's anincredible thing out there. It's true,
and it takes community, and ittakes it takes building an infrastructure, right,
(13:01):
yeah, and these are tough.These are tough challenges that face us.
And so you know, our viewis government has a role, nonprofits
have a role. Every you know, all of us is citizens have a
role. But business has a roletoo in the way that we operate and
what we do with our resources.I want to ask you one more question
(13:22):
about leadership. You obviously are passionateabout what you do. You have a
great team there. I know it'sgrown over the last thirteen years as CEO.
I mean, you have a plan, and I'm sure you go over
that plan, but how do youmake sure that the people that are underneath
you, whether they're managers the restof your staff, are making sure that
and I'm not talking about do whatthey're told to do, That's not what
(13:45):
I'm trying to get at, butto make sure that they're on the same
page, not only with your passionbut also your ideals. To make sure
that we're on the same page.Because as you talk about some of the
different layers in the different avenues thatyou're going in. There's a lot of
complex things going on and you haveto make sure that there's communication, people
are following through execution. I couldgo on and on about that, but
(14:05):
I'm curious about your leadership, howyou make sure your message gets across to
everybody and is executed correctly. First, and you talk about the ideals and
the things that we don't negotiate on. We have five values that we you
know, I know it's common incompanies to see their values on the website
or something like that, and they'rethere, but they're not something that is
(14:30):
felt by everyone in the company.I'll tell you it. Towards marsh,
everybody knows the values um and wetalk about them. We do a peer
awards on the values every quarter whenpeople are demonstrating nominated by their peers for
that. So those things are thenon to goals with Those are the stakes
(14:50):
in the ground that we cannot moveon. And that's Those include you know,
doing things the right way, whichtalks about how we show up for
our clients and it's it's it's thingslike growth mindset. So I talked about
you know, I'm able to makeprogress in my career because I'm not static.
I am constantly thirsty to learn andgrow. That is the organizational approach.
(15:11):
That's a team approach, that's individualapproach, because that's something that we've
put a stake in the ground onthat. So those things are we've made
that firm in terms of following throughon the plans and my vision. Really
it's not my vision I am.I am a steward of the shared vision
of our leadership and we're trying todo leadership at scale. So you know,
(15:35):
for me, even talking about myselfdoesn't feel right because really what I'm
talking about today is this company andthe company. You know. You talk
about CEOs, you should know.This is a company you should know.
Yes, me, not that biga deal, there's four hundred of us.
Still I like that. That iswell said, Ben. I want
to ask you one more question aboutyour team. I always ask all the
(15:56):
leaders, especially the successful ones,about having acts to you. As a
CEO. I know you're busy,you might be traveling all the time,
you might be moving around all thetime, but it seems like the great
CEOs a lot of success allowed theirpeople to have access to them talk about
that just a little bit. Well, it's harder now that we're all remote.
We used to be in all inthe office company, and I felt
(16:19):
like I knew pretty much everyone inthe company at that point. That's changed
some, But you know, wedo. We do a leadership round table
with all hands every month. Wetalk about updates. I send emails out
Friday updates on kind of what's goingon in the company, so we have
a good information flow, and thenshoot. People can submit questions for the
(16:44):
leadership round table. Again, mycalendars open, they can schedule time anytime.
They can send me a chat,just like anyone else. I don't
have a executive assistant or any ofthat fancy stuff, one of four hundred
people. Dennis, I like it, Ben. That makes sense that you
say it that way, that I'mjust a part of the team. I
(17:06):
might have this title, but I'mjust I'm a part of the team.
And I love that you roll thatway, and I think your employees and
staff loves that too. I didwant to take just a little time out
from Forest March to ask you aboutcharity because I know that it's really important,
especially for a company like you.You're already helping a lot of people.
So you say, how on earthare we gonna have time for more
charity. But I know that thereare some philanthropic and charity things that are
(17:27):
important to you. Could you talka little bit about that as well.
I don't really view, at leastat Fords March, I don't view philanthropy
in the same way it's traditionally talkedabout, right, so often that's talked
about in donating money to a cause, and we do some of that.
We do something I mean personally andas a business thing more importantly as a
(17:48):
business because there's much more resourcing there. We do some of that when there's
like an emergency, urgent things andreally there's some need. But if we're
talking about philanthropy, be in committingour resources to drive the change we want
to see in the world. Wedo that probably like no other firm you've
met. We have a division thatis specifically set up for that purpose that
(18:12):
we fund with our own resources.So I could talk about this all day.
We have inside of that group,we have three kind of tiers of
things that they take on. Oneis system level big investment long range opportunities.
We have two that we're working onright now. One is the recovery
(18:33):
topic we just talked about a littlewhile ago. We are deep into that.
The other is growing the B Corpsmovement, So I talk to you
about the system level kind of movementin the in moving to stakeholder based capitalism.
We are invested in growing that movementin partnership with b Lab, which
is the nonprofit that runs a program. Then we do short term projects.
(18:53):
So these are we see a needin a community with the nonprofit topic,
we bring our resources in to supportthat. But the way we support that
is the way we support every project. So we use research, we use
communication, we use evaluation. It'snot as much we're writing a check.
(19:14):
There's certainly resources expended, but we'redoing the things we're really good at.
Writing checks is in our strength,delivering outcomes with our way we believe in
doing work. That's our strength.I love that, Ben, You're just
doing it in a different way andit's very cool. I did want to
ask you, as we wrap upour wonderful conversation for our listeners, if
you were to give them one takeawaythat you want them to know about fours
Marsh, what would that be?Well, I've talked. I've talked a
(19:37):
fair amount about a number of topics. I think if you're somebody who's talented
and motivated and connected to some ofthe things I'm saying, we're hiring,
check out our website, what we'realways looking for upcoming talent. If you're
someone that wants to partner on theseissues, you care about any of the
(20:00):
things I've talked about or that areon our site, reach out, you're
you're looking for a partner, youwant to, you want to. We're
a potential service provider to you.Always good to have a conversation. We
take on small projects, we takeon large I think to me, you
know, ultimately, if people hearabout the company through this and they take
(20:21):
a step to learn more, whetherthat's just checking out the podcast or checking
out the website, then it's agood conversation outstanding. Let's give that website
and also let's give the name ofthe podcast again. Yeah, so the
website is Forsmars dot com, frsmrsh dot com and the podcast is Empathy
Effect. I know that you're veryproud of too. And before I let
(20:41):
you go, Ben, you andI have one thing in common. I'm
sure, we have a lot morein common, but when people have hired
me over the years in radio ortelevision, they didn't hire me on all
the experience I had. They said, the reason I hired you was for
your passion for radio and television sport. And it really, you know,
(21:02):
first of all, blew me awaythat somebody who hired me for something outside
what I thought I was hired for. And what it showed me is that
if you have passions in life,it can take you a long way.
It can make you a happy person, you can grow in so many exponential
ways. But the reason why I'mtelling the story is that your passion comes
through our zoom interview. I'm sureour listeners have heard it, and that's
(21:22):
why you have so much success atForrest March. So listen continues success,
good luck with a continued podcast becauseI know that is so important in the
Empathy Effect podcast, and continue successwith Forrest Mars. It sounds like everything
is going well, but lots ofroom for growth and lots of things to
handle in the world with you andyour team. Thank you for joining us
on CEOs. You should know wereally appreciate it. Thank you. Dennis
(21:45):
I appreciate the opportunity
And so I was born and raisedin the great state of Wisconsin and Milwaukee.
I went to school and at theUniversity of Wisconsin, which is pretty
closer there in Madison, and thencame out to DC area after I've been
here ever since. All Right,we've got a Badger in our midst so
look out. He's a Midwestern boy. Does that mean you're a Packer fan
(00:22):
too? I am. I am. It's not exactly the year to talk
it up too much, but youknow, we have our ups and downs
over the year. You've had somegood years though with Aaron Rodgers. I
know things are a little weird rightnow, but you've had a lot of
good years there. He's been alot of fun. He's never born in
Green Bay, I'll tell you thatmuch. When it comes to the football
team, well, listen, we'rehere to talk everything about Forrest marsh group.
(00:43):
And I didn't want to do thisbefore we do anything else. I
know that. You know, you'vebeen there for thirteen years and you've worked
your way up the system like alot of people doing a lot of leaders,
and you know, I can seeby your background and what you've done
about your attraction. When it comesto the company, and that's what I'm
always very interested. I see aboutwhat the company saw on you. But
(01:07):
what did you see in the companiessaid that I have to join this team.
Well, so, you know,I've been in and around government in
community from the you know, theyoungest age, right. My dad was
that the Departments of Veterans Affairs gavehis entire career service of Veterans pres retired
there. My mom was a socialworker and guidance counselor, so came out
(01:30):
to the DC area to work largelyin technology sector, but with military families
and personnel programs, and you know, I think I was at a company
that that had priorities that were largelyaround uh, you know, traditional shareholder
(01:51):
values, making your quarter numbers,and there was a lot of pressure on
that and I think Force Marsh atthat time was about twenty people, a
small company, but the priorities weredifferent. The priorities were around outcomes,
and it was a chance to gosomewhere and really have a voice in building
(02:12):
something that I believed in. Andso yeah, that was compelling. It
was a little risky, but youknow, it was a chance to set
a different trajectory. Well, there'sa common thread in all of our leaders
and CEOs that you just talked about, and that's taking a risk and a
lot of people have done it.If you go with your passion and you
take that chance and roll the dice, it might not work out sometimes,
(02:35):
but you know in your case itdid and that's wonderful. And I also
wanted you to speak to a littlebit on this in general terms, because
I understand that everybody's situation is differentwhen they join a company than moving up
the ranks from their passion to experienceto the timing of it a little luck.
But with all that said, ifyou were to impart any advice on
your ascension to CEO, what wouldyou give budding leaders out there to look
(02:57):
forward to, whether it's pitfalls orchallenges. I think for me it's been
about openness to growing from the firstday because I'm I mean, I don't
know what percentage of the way throughbeing the leader I have the potential to
be I am, but I gota long ways ahead of me as well,
and I think you know, ifthere's one thing that served me well,
(03:21):
it is entering every day, week, month, year and saying,
okay, how can I how canI learn how can be a better leader
tomorrow. And you know, forme, it's been a lot about it's
been about the team. It's notreally I mean, I my job as
much as as anything else, isabout representing the organization and making sure we're
(03:46):
all headed in the same direction.And we and it's the direction that we
believe in. But you know,they don't really work. People don't work
for me at Forest Marsh. I'mI have a rule to play amongst that
it's nowhere near the most critical role. Let's talk about mission statement. What
is that for Force Marsh? Sowe exist to bring lasting positive change?
(04:08):
And I admit that is a broad, high level statement, but it's an
important place to start. So youknow, then you got to go from
there and you got to say,well, what kind of change is that?
And how and so so what kindof change? We're talking about change
that improves people's lives and in everyinstance we can we are driving to get
(04:29):
at past the symptom to what arethe underlying systems that are at the route.
And so a small taste to thestuff we're working on. We're working
on reducing suicide among our military servicemembers. We're working on improving absentee ballot
processes and communications so that people overseascan have their voice heard. We're working
(04:50):
on helping prepare individuals and communities forpotential natural disasters and emergencies. We're working
to get more citizens to donate bloodin the midst of critical shortages. So
that's type of stuff we're doing.In terms of how do we do it
well, we're research first companies,so research isn't all we do, but
(05:13):
it is absolutely at the foundation ofhow we approach every challenge. So we
frame that. We frame our approachas listen, act and learn. So
listen is about that evidence, right, bringing voices to the table. Nothing
can be done without this step,acting that community. Number of things,
policy, it can be processed,training, technology, A lot of times
it's communication. I then learned backto the evidence, you know what worked,
(05:36):
what didn't, How do we improve? Always learned? Then I imagine
when you join thirteen plus years agoand there were only twenty people. You
know, you guys were just thatthat new feeling and all the ideas that
you had, and I imagine thegrowth has been exponential. And as I
look and I reread your gorgeous websiteby the way it's whoever did that is
(05:56):
that's impressive. By the way,we'll give the website at the end.
I'm sure people are googling already,but it is a beautiful website, easy
to navigate that helping people, thereare so many different avenues to do,
so I imagine you have to say, well, we got to pump the
bricks a little bit. Here,here are our past that we're going to
take, here's what we want todo. Here is my vision. So
I'm curious as a leader, andthere's so many different areas that you can
(06:17):
help people, and you just touchedon several of them. What cause you
to say, we can go inthis direction, but we have to be
careful about going in that direction withthe team. Yeah. You know,
well, it may seem like it'sbeen a rapid growth, you know,
really it's been steady actually, andit's been a few new clients every year.
And what happens is once we getin and start working with folks,
(06:40):
they see that working with us isdifferent, and I We're able to get
deeper and deeper into helping them addressand drive the outcomes that they want to
Ben let's talk about your very excitingpodcast that I know as a passion project,
Empathy Effect podcast. You can hearit on the iHeart podcast network.
But this is a great extension ofyour brand and great storytelling that you might
(07:02):
not get out in any other way. So please tell us how important this
podcast is and really what is itall about? Oh my gosh, yeah,
Empathy Effect. I am the biggestfan. It's so often I see
and hear government talked about in publicdiscourse, and it's from politicians, and
(07:23):
it clouds the incredible work that's actuallygoing on inside of government and the inspiring
people that have committed their careers toservice. And so our view is the
more we share their stories, theiragencies, programs, and priorities, the
better opportunity is for collaboration for betteroutcomes, whether that's within government or with
(07:45):
partners, greater understanding with the publicas well. So yeah, if you
list if you listen to to thepodcast, I'll tell you it's striking hearing
the stories and the commitment and andyeah, it's just something I'm really proud
to be part of. And Ithink we're just getting started on it um
and it's it's these are untold stories, you know, you hear about government,
(08:09):
but you don't hear from the folksthat are doing it day and day
out and their experiences and the passionthat comes through when they speak. It's
it's moving. I could hear itin your voice band, and I think
it's important. And once again thetitle of the podcast, Empathy Affect Podcast.
You know when we talk to radio, when we talk about podcasts or
social media, it's the same.For companies like yours, it's an extension
(08:31):
of your brand and gives you anopportunity to tell stories you might not normally
do that in everyday life. Soit makes so much sense about why you
do it and how powerful this forall the stories that you have to share
with people. Listen if if Ican't explain thirty seconds what we do,
listen to one of our podcasts.You'll hear how somebody's been affecting and how
(08:52):
it's changed your life. And thatmakes a lot of sense. Absolutely,
And it's and it's about those,uh, those civil servants, and they
our center stage and it's really atime to highlight them who too often are
behind the scenes, and you knowtheir message should be amplified. Let's talk
about the future. I know thateverybody's thinking ahead, and smart people like
(09:15):
you are always thinking five ten yearsahead of things, and we don't want
to get in anything that would beproprietary or secret or anything like that.
But with that said, as youlook at maybe some of the people that
you're going to help, maybe someof the different facets or directions that you
and the company might go, whatare you looking for in the future the
next five ten years That could bevery big for your company, for your
clients. But also you really haveyour eye and ear on well, there's
(09:37):
there are a couple of things thatI think stand out this. We could
have a long conversation on this one. I bet we I'll you know,
I'll narrow it down to a coupleof things. So one I think I
see us really continue to dig inon this topic of getting at the underlying
systems. You know, I'll tellyou. In twenty seventeen, we certified
(10:01):
as a b corp. And ifif you're not familiar with that, that
is a third party certification that looksat you the way that you balance all
of your stakeholders as a business,so not just your shareholders, but your
employees or clients, the planet,your community, and so to us,
(10:22):
that was a huge step in theevolution of the company, and a lot
of the things that we are seeingthat we are us and many others are
working to address in the world aroundus. Whether that's substance use disorder,
or it's inequity in wealth and income, or it's the climate emergency. These
(10:43):
are a lot of them are manmade, man made issues and their result
of and a lot of times greed. And so for us, if we
look at the way we are operatingour business and how many others are operating
their businesses in that manner, wecan get to system level change so we
(11:07):
can avoid having to do address allthese one off topics that continue to come
up as a result of the waythe system has been in the past.
More specific to a topic, weare going to be deeper and deeper.
In sud we've been invested really heavilyin the recovery aspects of that. What
(11:30):
we've found in our work in substitutedisorder is that the recovery aspects of it
are underinvested in. People talk tospend on treatment and prevention, and without
the recovery infrastructure, you have relapsed. And so there's a lot we can
do to take what is overlooked todayand bring it the resources the attention that
(11:56):
it needs. For all. I'mglad you talked about that last thing.
You know, somebody playing me severalmonths ago because I'm passionate about the homeless
issue. I live in the district, and I've lived on the West Coast
and it's it's blowing up in SanFrancisco and seat on Portland. It really
is an epidemic, and now southernCalifornia. And I know you're very well
over there that because it's one ofyour passion projects to take care of people.
(12:18):
But it was interesting how they explainedit to me about you know,
you just can't give homeless people someplaceto stay because a lot of these people
have mental health issues or there's drugissues, and about cleaning them out and
how you do that, and thereare so many different things before actually getting
them housing that you have to doto take care of people that I'm going
I really didn't realize how many layersthat were involved in this. And as
(12:39):
I think of all the things thatyou do, it's not simple what you
do with your team. There arelayers to try to figure out these problems,
diagnose them and then try and improvethe situation. It just blew my
head up by it. It's anincredible thing out there. It's true,
and it takes community, and ittakes it takes building an infrastructure, right,
(13:01):
yeah, and these are tough.These are tough challenges that face us.
And so you know, our viewis government has a role, nonprofits
have a role. Every you know, all of us is citizens have a
role. But business has a roletoo in the way that we operate and
what we do with our resources.I want to ask you one more question
(13:22):
about leadership. You obviously are passionateabout what you do. You have a
great team there. I know it'sgrown over the last thirteen years as CEO.
I mean, you have a plan, and I'm sure you go over
that plan, but how do youmake sure that the people that are underneath
you, whether they're managers the restof your staff, are making sure that
and I'm not talking about do whatthey're told to do, That's not what
(13:45):
I'm trying to get at, butto make sure that they're on the same
page, not only with your passionbut also your ideals. To make sure
that we're on the same page.Because as you talk about some of the
different layers in the different avenues thatyou're going in. There's a lot of
complex things going on and you haveto make sure that there's communication, people
are following through execution. I couldgo on and on about that, but
(14:05):
I'm curious about your leadership, howyou make sure your message gets across to
everybody and is executed correctly. First, and you talk about the ideals and
the things that we don't negotiate on. We have five values that we you
know, I know it's common incompanies to see their values on the website
or something like that, and they'rethere, but they're not something that is
(14:30):
felt by everyone in the company.I'll tell you it. Towards marsh,
everybody knows the values um and wetalk about them. We do a peer
awards on the values every quarter whenpeople are demonstrating nominated by their peers for
that. So those things are thenon to goals with Those are the stakes
(14:50):
in the ground that we cannot moveon. And that's Those include you know,
doing things the right way, whichtalks about how we show up for
our clients and it's it's it's thingslike growth mindset. So I talked about
you know, I'm able to makeprogress in my career because I'm not static.
I am constantly thirsty to learn andgrow. That is the organizational approach.
(15:11):
That's a team approach, that's individualapproach, because that's something that we've
put a stake in the ground onthat. So those things are we've made
that firm in terms of following throughon the plans and my vision. Really
it's not my vision I am.I am a steward of the shared vision
of our leadership and we're trying todo leadership at scale. So you know,
(15:35):
for me, even talking about myselfdoesn't feel right because really what I'm
talking about today is this company andthe company. You know. You talk
about CEOs, you should know.This is a company you should know.
Yes, me, not that biga deal, there's four hundred of us.
Still I like that. That iswell said, Ben. I want
to ask you one more question aboutyour team. I always ask all the
(15:56):
leaders, especially the successful ones,about having acts to you. As a
CEO. I know you're busy,you might be traveling all the time,
you might be moving around all thetime, but it seems like the great
CEOs a lot of success allowed theirpeople to have access to them talk about
that just a little bit. Well, it's harder now that we're all remote.
We used to be in all inthe office company, and I felt
(16:19):
like I knew pretty much everyone inthe company at that point. That's changed
some, But you know, wedo. We do a leadership round table
with all hands every month. Wetalk about updates. I send emails out
Friday updates on kind of what's goingon in the company, so we have
a good information flow, and thenshoot. People can submit questions for the
(16:44):
leadership round table. Again, mycalendars open, they can schedule time anytime.
They can send me a chat,just like anyone else. I don't
have a executive assistant or any ofthat fancy stuff, one of four hundred
people. Dennis, I like it, Ben. That makes sense that you
say it that way, that I'mjust a part of the team. I
(17:06):
might have this title, but I'mjust I'm a part of the team.
And I love that you roll thatway, and I think your employees and
staff loves that too. I didwant to take just a little time out
from Forest March to ask you aboutcharity because I know that it's really important,
especially for a company like you.You're already helping a lot of people.
So you say, how on earthare we gonna have time for more
charity. But I know that thereare some philanthropic and charity things that are
(17:27):
important to you. Could you talka little bit about that as well.
I don't really view, at leastat Fords March, I don't view philanthropy
in the same way it's traditionally talkedabout, right, so often that's talked
about in donating money to a cause, and we do some of that.
We do something I mean personally andas a business thing more importantly as a
(17:48):
business because there's much more resourcing there. We do some of that when there's
like an emergency, urgent things andreally there's some need. But if we're
talking about philanthropy, be in committingour resources to drive the change we want
to see in the world. Wedo that probably like no other firm you've
met. We have a division thatis specifically set up for that purpose that
(18:12):
we fund with our own resources.So I could talk about this all day.
We have inside of that group,we have three kind of tiers of
things that they take on. Oneis system level big investment long range opportunities.
We have two that we're working onright now. One is the recovery
(18:33):
topic we just talked about a littlewhile ago. We are deep into that.
The other is growing the B Corpsmovement, So I talk to you
about the system level kind of movementin the in moving to stakeholder based capitalism.
We are invested in growing that movementin partnership with b Lab, which
is the nonprofit that runs a program. Then we do short term projects.
(18:53):
So these are we see a needin a community with the nonprofit topic,
we bring our resources in to supportthat. But the way we support that
is the way we support every project. So we use research, we use
communication, we use evaluation. It'snot as much we're writing a check.
(19:14):
There's certainly resources expended, but we'redoing the things we're really good at.
Writing checks is in our strength,delivering outcomes with our way we believe in
doing work. That's our strength.I love that, Ben, You're just
doing it in a different way andit's very cool. I did want to
ask you, as we wrap upour wonderful conversation for our listeners, if
you were to give them one takeawaythat you want them to know about fours
Marsh, what would that be?Well, I've talked. I've talked a
(19:37):
fair amount about a number of topics. I think if you're somebody who's talented
and motivated and connected to some ofthe things I'm saying, we're hiring,
check out our website, what we'realways looking for upcoming talent. If you're
someone that wants to partner on theseissues, you care about any of the
(20:00):
things I've talked about or that areon our site, reach out, you're
you're looking for a partner, youwant to, you want to. We're
a potential service provider to you.Always good to have a conversation. We
take on small projects, we takeon large I think to me, you
know, ultimately, if people hearabout the company through this and they take
(20:21):
a step to learn more, whetherthat's just checking out the podcast or checking
out the website, then it's agood conversation outstanding. Let's give that website
and also let's give the name ofthe podcast again. Yeah, so the
website is Forsmars dot com, frsmrsh dot com and the podcast is Empathy
Effect. I know that you're veryproud of too. And before I let
(20:41):
you go, Ben, you andI have one thing in common. I'm
sure, we have a lot morein common, but when people have hired
me over the years in radio ortelevision, they didn't hire me on all
the experience I had. They said, the reason I hired you was for
your passion for radio and television sport. And it really, you know,
(21:02):
first of all, blew me awaythat somebody who hired me for something outside
what I thought I was hired for. And what it showed me is that
if you have passions in life,it can take you a long way.
It can make you a happy person, you can grow in so many exponential
ways. But the reason why I'mtelling the story is that your passion comes
through our zoom interview. I'm sureour listeners have heard it, and that's
(21:22):
why you have so much success atForrest March. So listen continues success,
good luck with a continued podcast becauseI know that is so important in the
Empathy Effect podcast, and continue successwith Forrest Mars. It sounds like everything
is going well, but lots ofroom for growth and lots of things to
handle in the world with you andyour team. Thank you for joining us
on CEOs. You should know wereally appreciate it. Thank you. Dennis
(21:45):
I appreciate the opportunity
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