March 6, 2025 • 9 mins
Triangulation or stepping into a relationship conflict between two people is one of many dysfunctional dynamics. Find out what the Karpman Triangle is and how it sheds light on the pros and cons of triangulating. #karpmantriangle #complexrelationships #relationshipconflict
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
You're listening to an audio recordingby Change My Relationship, featuring
licensed marriage and family therapistand author Karla Downing.
These audios are designed to provide youwith practical solutions
based on biblical truthsfor all your relationships.
(00:20):
I want to talk to youabout the Karpman Triangle.
In our dysfunctional relationships,
we often step in to mediate
what's going on between two people?
This often makes things worserather than makes things better,
and it pulls us into a conflictthat we do not have to be involved in.
(00:44):
I did this a lotwhen my girls were younger,
and actually even timeswhen they were adults.
When I felt like my husband wasn'tbeing fair, or that he was being harsh,
or he was being unreasonable,or one of the girls was upset.
I would often jump in and I would try
to convince him to do something different.
(01:06):
I would try to convince him to not give itconsequence,
to not be angry,to be more patient, to listen,
to explain why the daughter hadn't donesomething wrong.
And my husband would oftenget really stubborn when I did this.
And instead of backing downand correcting himself,
(01:26):
which would have fixed the problem,he would get
more adamant and more stubbornand he would get upset.
More upset at my daughter.
And then he would get upset at mewhen he refused to back down.
I would still be anxiousbecause the anxiety was
what had driven meto intervene in the first place.
(01:47):
My anxiety would still be there and soI would need to figure something out.
So instead of trying to get him to change,I would turn to my daughter
and I would try to get her to say,well, okay, come on,
just just do what dad wants you to do.
Just tell him what he wants to know.
Just tell him you're sorryor just go fix it.
(02:10):
Just be quiet. Like, let it go.
I tried to get her to changewhat she was doing and when she didn't
do it and got mad at me instead,I would end up with two people mad at me.
And I had still nonothing to fix the problem.
Now what was happening?
Well, any time you jumpinto what we call a dyad,
(02:32):
which is a relationship between two peopleand form a triad, which is something
going on between three people, you labelthe people and identify them as something,
and that is you as the rescuer,are jumping in
to try to protect the victimfrom the perpetrator.
(02:52):
At first, I made my husband
the perpetrator and my daughterthe victim with me, the rescuer.
When my husband didn't give in and change,then I jumped over and made my daughter
the perpetratorand told her to do something
to treat my husband,the victim, differently.
(03:12):
So you can play these different rolesand they can switch back and forth, but
every time you jumpin, you're acting like you're
rescuing one of those two people
from the other person who youthen make the perpetrator.
It rarely works.
It rarely is effective,and you usually end up getting things
(03:33):
people mad at you, and maybe getting themeven madder at themselves.
Because by jumping in,you might make the perpetrator feel like
I've just got to dig my heels inand double down on this person,
because I can't let
this rescuer jump inand infer that I'm a bad guy,
or I'm even more adamantabout making sure that this kid
(03:58):
or this person admits to methe problem and does what I say.
Because now I've got two people.
It feels like two people are against me.
So recognize what you're doing, whyyou're doing it, and that it doesn't work.
Now, there are some exceptions.
If there is somebody
who is truly a victim,who is truly dependent and truly incapable
(04:20):
of taking care of themselves,then you have to jump in.
You have to jump in and protectvictims, people that are truly victims,
children that are completely helpless,that are truly not just because
you disagree with the discipline,but truly being abused or victimized,
or somebody who is dependent and incapableof protecting themselves.
(04:43):
You would have to do that.
But otherwise it is better to let peoplework it out among themselves.
And then if you need to talk to a spouse,talk to that person when the child
is not around or the childwhen the other parent is not around.
Because if you jump in, let's say,for instance, you jump in, let's say
(05:03):
you do have that harsh spouse, a parentwho is a, just kind of narcissistic
or angry or borderline or, ragesor maybe even abusive.
You jump in and you,
are saying that that personis, mistreating the kid.
But when you turn on the kid and you saythe kid, okay, just do what dad wants.
(05:26):
You're literally giving the kid a message
that the other parent is rightand that that parent.
That you're agreeing with that parentand that you're siding with that parent.
And by doing that,if the child is truly being abused,
you are abandoning your child.
Now, you can also do thisin adult relationships.
(05:48):
You can jump in in a relationshipbetween two of your siblings
who don't work it out.
And so you jump in and try to mediate,or you can jump in between your parents.
Even as an adult child, jump inand try to resolve things
between your mom and your dad,or between your mom and your dad
who are divorced,or maybe between two of your friends.
(06:09):
There's all kinds of relationshipsthat you can jump into, and when you do,
you often end up in worse trouble
and feeling worseand in more and in a more anxious state.
I have really
worked on trying not to jump in.
You can say things like, you know what?
Why don't you go ask that person?
(06:31):
When somebody asks you,hey, what did Susie say?
Why don't you go ask her?
Is she going to go?
Is she going to move? Is she?
Why don't you go ask her?
What did so-and-so say to you?
Why don't you go ask her?
That way you are not jumping in,in this relationship between two people,
even at that level where you'retelling somebody what somebody else said.
(06:53):
Get used to saying when somebody says,would you call this person
and ask, why don't you call yourself?
And when you see two people arguing,let them work it out.
If you have something to say,come say it at a different time.
Unless you truly need to jump into protect that person.
So I want you to think about it.
Which relationship between two peopledo you normally jump into?
(07:17):
Think about who gets which role.
Who are you making? The persecutor.
Who are you making thethe perpetrator or persecutor?
Who are you making the victim?
And do you really want to be the rescuer?
And do you want to do something different
now that you know what you're doingand why you're doing it?
(07:38):
Proverbs 24:11 says,
rescue those being led away to death.
Hold backthose staggering toward slaughter.
That's the time to intervene.
Proverbs 26:17 says, like one who grabs
a stray dog by the ear and if you do that,what's going to happen?
(07:58):
You're going to get bit is someonewho rushes into a quarrel, not their own.
You're going to end up hurt somehow.
So think twice before doing it.
If you like these kinds of tipsand truths,
I would suggestthat you look at my devotional,
365 Daily Devotions for Christiansand Difficult Relationships.
(08:22):
It gives you all kinds of tipsand tools and truth,
and I think you'll find thatyou really like it,
and that you reference ita lot on top of reading it every day.
Thank you for watching.
Thank you for listeningto Change My Relationship.
We hope you will subscribe to thesepodcasts and share them with your friends.
(08:43):
Karla would love to hear from you.
She welcomes ideas for a future podcast,as well as your feedback
on how the podcasts have helped your lifeand relationships.
You can email her at.
karla@changemyrelationship.com
For more informationon Change My Relationship and Karla
Downing's ministry, including her books,studies, devotionals, podcasts
(09:06):
and YouTube videosvisit changemyrelationship.com.
You're listening to an audio recordingby Change My Relationship, featuring
licensed marriage and family therapistand author Karla Downing.
These audios are designed to provide youwith practical solutions
based on biblical truthsfor all your relationships.
(00:20):
I want to talk to youabout the Karpman Triangle.
In our dysfunctional relationships,
we often step in to mediate
what's going on between two people?
This often makes things worserather than makes things better,
and it pulls us into a conflictthat we do not have to be involved in.
(00:44):
I did this a lotwhen my girls were younger,
and actually even timeswhen they were adults.
When I felt like my husband wasn'tbeing fair, or that he was being harsh,
or he was being unreasonable,or one of the girls was upset.
I would often jump in and I would try
to convince him to do something different.
(01:06):
I would try to convince him to not give itconsequence,
to not be angry,to be more patient, to listen,
to explain why the daughter hadn't donesomething wrong.
And my husband would oftenget really stubborn when I did this.
And instead of backing downand correcting himself,
(01:26):
which would have fixed the problem,he would get
more adamant and more stubbornand he would get upset.
More upset at my daughter.
And then he would get upset at mewhen he refused to back down.
I would still be anxiousbecause the anxiety was
what had driven meto intervene in the first place.
(01:47):
My anxiety would still be there and soI would need to figure something out.
So instead of trying to get him to change,I would turn to my daughter
and I would try to get her to say,well, okay, come on,
just just do what dad wants you to do.
Just tell him what he wants to know.
Just tell him you're sorryor just go fix it.
(02:10):
Just be quiet. Like, let it go.
I tried to get her to changewhat she was doing and when she didn't
do it and got mad at me instead,I would end up with two people mad at me.
And I had still nonothing to fix the problem.
Now what was happening?
Well, any time you jumpinto what we call a dyad,
(02:32):
which is a relationship between two peopleand form a triad, which is something
going on between three people, you labelthe people and identify them as something,
and that is you as the rescuer,are jumping in
to try to protect the victimfrom the perpetrator.
(02:52):
At first, I made my husband
the perpetrator and my daughterthe victim with me, the rescuer.
When my husband didn't give in and change,then I jumped over and made my daughter
the perpetratorand told her to do something
to treat my husband,the victim, differently.
(03:12):
So you can play these different rolesand they can switch back and forth, but
every time you jumpin, you're acting like you're
rescuing one of those two people
from the other person who youthen make the perpetrator.
It rarely works.
It rarely is effective,and you usually end up getting things
(03:33):
people mad at you, and maybe getting themeven madder at themselves.
Because by jumping in,you might make the perpetrator feel like
I've just got to dig my heels inand double down on this person,
because I can't let
this rescuer jump inand infer that I'm a bad guy,
or I'm even more adamantabout making sure that this kid
(03:58):
or this person admits to methe problem and does what I say.
Because now I've got two people.
It feels like two people are against me.
So recognize what you're doing, whyyou're doing it, and that it doesn't work.
Now, there are some exceptions.
If there is somebody
who is truly a victim,who is truly dependent and truly incapable
(04:20):
of taking care of themselves,then you have to jump in.
You have to jump in and protectvictims, people that are truly victims,
children that are completely helpless,that are truly not just because
you disagree with the discipline,but truly being abused or victimized,
or somebody who is dependent and incapableof protecting themselves.
(04:43):
You would have to do that.
But otherwise it is better to let peoplework it out among themselves.
And then if you need to talk to a spouse,talk to that person when the child
is not around or the childwhen the other parent is not around.
Because if you jump in, let's say,for instance, you jump in, let's say
(05:03):
you do have that harsh spouse, a parentwho is a, just kind of narcissistic
or angry or borderline or, ragesor maybe even abusive.
You jump in and you,
are saying that that personis, mistreating the kid.
But when you turn on the kid and you saythe kid, okay, just do what dad wants.
(05:26):
You're literally giving the kid a message
that the other parent is rightand that that parent.
That you're agreeing with that parentand that you're siding with that parent.
And by doing that,if the child is truly being abused,
you are abandoning your child.
Now, you can also do thisin adult relationships.
(05:48):
You can jump in in a relationshipbetween two of your siblings
who don't work it out.
And so you jump in and try to mediate,or you can jump in between your parents.
Even as an adult child, jump inand try to resolve things
between your mom and your dad,or between your mom and your dad
who are divorced,or maybe between two of your friends.
(06:09):
There's all kinds of relationshipsthat you can jump into, and when you do,
you often end up in worse trouble
and feeling worseand in more and in a more anxious state.
I have really
worked on trying not to jump in.
You can say things like, you know what?
Why don't you go ask that person?
(06:31):
When somebody asks you,hey, what did Susie say?
Why don't you go ask her?
Is she going to go?
Is she going to move? Is she?
Why don't you go ask her?
What did so-and-so say to you?
Why don't you go ask her?
That way you are not jumping in,in this relationship between two people,
even at that level where you'retelling somebody what somebody else said.
(06:53):
Get used to saying when somebody says,would you call this person
and ask, why don't you call yourself?
And when you see two people arguing,let them work it out.
If you have something to say,come say it at a different time.
Unless you truly need to jump into protect that person.
So I want you to think about it.
Which relationship between two peopledo you normally jump into?
(07:17):
Think about who gets which role.
Who are you making? The persecutor.
Who are you making thethe perpetrator or persecutor?
Who are you making the victim?
And do you really want to be the rescuer?
And do you want to do something different
now that you know what you're doingand why you're doing it?
(07:38):
Proverbs 24:11 says,
rescue those being led away to death.
Hold backthose staggering toward slaughter.
That's the time to intervene.
Proverbs 26:17 says, like one who grabs
a stray dog by the ear and if you do that,what's going to happen?
(07:58):
You're going to get bit is someonewho rushes into a quarrel, not their own.
You're going to end up hurt somehow.
So think twice before doing it.
If you like these kinds of tipsand truths,
I would suggestthat you look at my devotional,
365 Daily Devotions for Christiansand Difficult Relationships.
(08:22):
It gives you all kinds of tipsand tools and truth,
and I think you'll find thatyou really like it,
and that you reference ita lot on top of reading it every day.
Thank you for watching.
Thank you for listeningto Change My Relationship.
We hope you will subscribe to thesepodcasts and share them with your friends.
(08:43):
Karla would love to hear from you.
She welcomes ideas for a future podcast,as well as your feedback
on how the podcasts have helped your lifeand relationships.
You can email her at.
karla@changemyrelationship.com
For more informationon Change My Relationship and Karla
Downing's ministry, including her books,studies, devotionals, podcasts
(09:06):
and YouTube videosvisit changemyrelationship.com.
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