Interview: Answers to the Hard Questions on How to Pray for Your Wounded Child

Virginia shares the hearts of those who love their wounded children and the prayers that arise from their painful struggles in this podcast. She answers the hard questions: What about the person who has prayed and prayed and hasn't gotten an answer? What are you praying for when you ask God to heal? Is it instant healing or something else? Can you contend with God? Can you share your emotions with Him? Parents with wounded children have struggled with these questions and more, and they will find comfort with this honest and practical discussion.   Virginia Wells is the author of "Praying for a Wounded Child: Encouragement and Prayers for You and the Child You Love." She combined her faith as a hospital chaplain, her education and experience as a mental health counselor working with traumatized children, and her personal heart cries as an adoptive mother to wounded children from war-torn countries or minority backgrounds.    Her devotional is both practical and deeply spiritual. It serves as both a soul cry and a battle plan, written for the parent whose heart breaks daily--who feels unseen, unprepared, or out of strength, yet still refuses to give up. Wells speaks directly to those walking a difficult parenting path, offering the encouragement and tools they need to keep going when hope feels distant. She equips parents with spiritual and emotional tools to help them stand in the gap for their children, while also tending to their own healing and hope.   You can find her book on Amazon: Praying for a Wounded Child: Encouragement and Prayers for You and the Child You Love  https://amzn.to/3HMKqa9   Website: virginiawellsauthor.com Facebook: Virginia Wells, Author Email: [e-mail]   Website: https://www.changemyrelationship.com/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ChangeMyRelationship YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@changemyrelationship

Watch this video on YouTube: https://youtu.be/WKMaijqfnMY

 

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
You're listening to a podcast by ChangeMy Relationship, featuring
licensed marriage and family therapistand author Karla Downing.
These podcast are designed to provide youwith practical solutions
based on biblical truthsfor all your relationships.
Today, Karla will be interviewing a guestwho has experienced
a relationship problemand successfully worked through it.

(00:29):
Welcome to Change My Relationship podcast.
As you know, I like to interviewpeople who have been through a experience
in their relationship,a difficult experience,
and kind of come out on the other sideso that they can relate
to what you are going through.
But also to give you
like some experience, strengthand hope from what they've learned.

(00:52):
So I have with me today Virginia Wells.
She is a former hospital chaplain,
and she was a mental health therapistand an adoptive mother
to some childrenfrom difficult places in the world.
That is a wealth of experience,and I'm really, happy to have you.

(01:15):
Welcome, Virginia.
Thank you so much, Karla.
And I feel very honored to be here.
I love your book, your book and devotions.
And I love a lot of your podcasts.
You really meetthe needs of the body of Christ,
in various topicsthat are not normally addressed.
So thank you so much again.I am so honored to be here.

(01:36):
I it's an honor for me to be ableto have you and also to be able
to have that ministry and to bring,some of the things that I've gone
through to others to give themthat same experience, strength and hope.
So, I'm going to, to readjust a little bit.
She also has a bookthat has just recently come out
and it is called, Praying for a Wounded

(01:57):
Child, Encouragement and Prayers for Youand the Child You Love.
I also have experience with that.
So I loved the topic instantlywhen I got the email telling me about it.
But it says a couple of thingsthat the press release says
about this book is that it comes from herraw and redemptive parenting journey,
including the challengesof raising children from hard places.

(02:21):
It's both practical and spiritual,which is what I like
to give to people and also,
if we're going to talk about the book,we're going to give you some examples
of some of the prayers,and then we're going to touch some of the
really difficult topics about prayer,
and we're going to be honest about them.

(02:42):
And I think that's going to be refreshingto people,
to be ableto just really hear us talk about
things that we've been through.
So let's get right into it.
Your book is titled praying for a WoundedChild encouragement and Prayers
for you and the child you Love,who is included in that description?

(03:02):
Well, the description is really includedfor anyone
who is in contactwith a traumatized child.
It could be a parent,it could be a teacher,
it could be a foster parent,it could be a kinship care grandparent,
or, like myself, an adoptive mom.
I have also a biological mom.
We have one biological child, as wellas, those adopted from hard places.

(03:27):
The trauma is so pervasive in our societyright now
with children,and I could not find a book like this.
So I honestly, as other authors did,I just wrote one to help meet the needs.
Yes. Perfect.
You intentionally organized your book
into sections in a specific order.

(03:49):
Can you tell the listeners what those areand why you did it that way?
Sure.
Well,I wanted to first begin my book with God.
So the first section hones in onone's personal relationship with God,
and I intentionally addressedthe topic of forgiveness,
as I know that can be a roadblockto our relationship with God.

(04:10):
I've also addressedsalvation and surrender, and also just
the presence of Godwhen he's present with us
in difficult times,such as the example of Hagar.
That is the first section.
In the second section,I intentionally, shared
about praying in timesof adversity and distress,

(04:31):
and I introduced the Luke 2:52 prayer,
which sometimes is not talked about.
Not really shared a lot.
Basically, praying for your childin a very holistic way
mentally, socially,physically and spiritually.
I also shared about fasting and prayingand praise and other areas of prayer.

(04:52):
This.
The second sectionis not meant to fix your child.
It is basically to develop a deep
relationship with Christ after Christ.
The most important part of our lifeis obviously family.
So the third section got into familyrelationships
and I strongly honed in,

(05:15):
for lack of a better word right nowon a child's relationship with father.
The father, as I see that in our societywe have so many fatherless children.
I also have talked to a lot of adoptiveparents, and many times extended family
do not understand their journeyand even with biological children
that are going through trauma,

(05:36):
extended family who do not havea traumatized child may not understand.
So I had a section on that,as well as siblings
and some other parts of family units.
After that I went into a section on ourour children's development
where I shared about education, identityand brain issues

(05:59):
because oftentimes there are brain issuesthat we have no control over.
And I tried to share about thosefrom a clinical perspective
as well as from a spiritual perspective.
Then, I think it is, Yeah.
The fourth section,I, I dealt directly with trauma prayers

(06:19):
and hopefully insights to help peoplewho have an abandoned child,
an abused child and abducted child,who are parenting a child
whose biological parents are incarcerated,prejudice, etc..
After all of that, I havesome specific prayers for your child.
And again, I try to share a great dealabout the father

(06:43):
relationship, as I know that can be aa source of difficulty for some children,
particularly if they had an absent fatheror were abandoned by their father,
and just praying that theythey see Father God in a different light.
Finally, there is a sectionon taking care of ourselves
which is imperativewhen we have a wounded child.

(07:06):
Yes, I definitelythat's a huge topic for me too.
Yes. What relationship?
You’ve gotta, take care of yourself.
So that that was a lot. That gives people,
idea of the breadth,
with your devotionalor your book on prayer. So.
Okay, so it isn't easy to carefor a wounded child.

(07:26):
Some of your prayers target
those specific needs of the personcaring for the child.
Speak to the one that talksabout the heart cry for wisdom.
I can surely relate where there.
I mean,it is all the time that you are crying out
for wisdom and absolutely what do I do?
How do I handle this?You're looking for answers.

(07:48):
You're searching for solutions.
So tell us more about that.
Very good. Yes.
And that was a difficult, chapterfor me to write because my knee
jerk gut lover reaction as a therapistis, okay, we've got a problem.
We're going towe're going to find a fix for it.
Here are the stepswe are going to do to fix the problem.
Here is our goal.

(08:09):
And there are so many situations with one
child in particularwhere none of that worked.
And so I had to cry out to God for wisdom.
One of the difficulties for peoplelike myself
is that we are no longerrelying on ourselves.
We're desperateand we're crying out for God.
But I also believe that God worksthrough the body of Christ.

(08:31):
He works through other counselors,and it is humbling, as a counselor
to have to turn to another counselorto ask for help for your kid.
But I've done that numerous times,and I've also honestly used
hotlines, crisis hotlinesasking for wisdom.
And I always try to check that the wisdomfrom any counselor or hotline

(08:53):
aligns with the Word of God,and I believe that is so important.
But I believe that, it'sa humbling journey
to have to cryout for wisdom, but that is,
I believe that God will supplant us
and that God will provide when we do that,when we humble ourselves before him.
Well, and James 1 talks about that.
If anyone needs wisdom, it'sthat they come to God

(09:13):
and that you don't doubtand that he will provide it.
And I love the idea that you talked about
just all the different placesthat wisdom can come from.
And really it'skind of reminding you to like,
you've got to you've you've got toyou got to ask.
You've got to. Absolutely.You've got to look.
But you've got to believethat God will guide you

(09:36):
to the places that you need to go.
And it's just it's
kind of like a journey of faith,trying to figure it out.
And there are no instant answers,and there's no instant
cure alls as you're walking this road.
But it's definitely a faith walkwhere God is leading you

(09:58):
and through circumstances, through peoplethat you meet, through asking for help.
And sometimes you'll go somewhereand you'll find out
this isn't the right placefor me to get help.
You know your brain and you've gotif you've got to think
and you've got to feel,
you've got to know your childand know like this is helping.
This isn't helping.
Like yousaid, you've got to have some discernment

(10:19):
to where you might say,okay, you know, closed door right here.
You know,I've got I've got to keep searching
or maybe I've got to, to kind of gowith my gut
feeling like maybe this programisn't the right fit for me.
And I know my childand my child is not thriving here.
So true.
I feel like trying

(10:40):
to find the right therapist in particular,and even trying to find the right
crisis lineworker is a lot like looking for a car.
The first couple ones might not workwhen you're looking for a counselor,
and so much.
A lot of it, yes.
Is their training and what they haveto offer in terms of their wisdom.
But even moreso than that is the connection.

(11:02):
When a child is connected to a therapist,there can be wonderful things happening.
Connection is imperative for our children.
Yeah.
I remember, interviewing therapistsfor a teen like a young teenager.
And, I would call and ask questions,
and I just listened.
So the way the person answeredthe question and I would be like, no,

(11:25):
that's not the right person.
My child won't relate tothat person will relate to this person.
And then I got to the right person.
I was just like, whoa,that fits the situation.
That fits the my child.
I love the toneand the relaxed nature of the voice and
and the integration of bringingin the family and other things.

(11:46):
And I it's just you got to trust yourself,you know?
Absolutely. Yes. Yeah.
So the next one isit says praying through adversity
using specific spiritual practices.
And one of those is journaling prayers.
Why is this any differentthan praying aloud.
And how do you suggest that we do it?

(12:07):
I think that's a great question.
For myself personally, when I pray aloud,or even when I pray within my own mind,
I find myself being highly repetitive.
It's like I'm saying the same things overand over.
Therapeutically, there's two waysto release our prayers to God.
One is through talkingto another individual.

(12:28):
Actually,that's not so much releasing our prayers.
We're just talking the situationover with another individual,
and that can give usa great deal of peace,
that can give us a great dealof being heard,
that can affirm our gut level ideas,or maybe introduce new ideas.
But, why?
I share it about journaling prayeris this they've done studies,

(12:51):
and when we release our pain,our problems,
and on paper,the problems are not so formidable.
They're not so monumental, they're notso magnified because we have it on paper.
Not that we're going to laughat the problem
or dismiss the problem or think,oh, that's nothing.
Or at least that's not been my case.
But putting it on paper offers

(13:12):
a tangible way of release,
and I try to go a step furtherand encourage people
to write these prayers to God himself,to write out the prayer to God.
And usually and actually,you can, you know,
think of the model of the Psalms,because he there was something
that was scribed down in order for usto have those prayers.

(13:33):
Honestly speaking, my prayers usuallybegin with desperation and despair.
Like, why did this happen?
Or I thought, we were finally onan even keel or, I didn't need this.
I did not need this. God.
And I believe that God honors our honesty.
Obviously, in the New Testament,it says the older an Israelite
in whom there is no guile,he he honors our honesty.

(13:56):
He knows what's inside us anyway.
And I at times when I have been very gutlevel honest with, with God and, and,
even that whole I think it was a prayerfrom Saint Theresa or one of the saints
so this is how you treat your friends,but I've been very, very honest with God.
I have just felt, I, I've itseems like an invite to his presence.

(14:16):
And, a lot of times when I've close
these prayers, I've asked the Lord
to just give me insights onhow is this making me like Christ?
I think I've been through enough already.I think I'm, whatever.
Enough or whatfruit of the spirit of my growing
is, is growing through these trials.
Give me wisdom, God.

(14:36):
The Scripture says, behold,thou desires truth.
And I innermost being.
And then I hidden partthat will make me to know wisdom.
So I believe, when we journal our prayers
to God,we're having truth in our innermost being.
And, or we're we're actuallypouring out our hearts before God.
And he gives us wisdom in that, that
innermost parts, of us. Well, well.

(14:59):
And I love the idea of likethe songs were written out.
Yes, yes or songs. Yes.
And many of them start out just like that.
Oh, absolutely.
Desperation, hopelessness, darkness,
just raw emotion, kill my enemies, strike!
Oh, no. Oh, yes. That.

(15:20):
And, it it's notthat you have to be writing a Psalm.
A perfect Psalm,as you know, prayer to God.
Okay?
We're not going to read it,And yeah, it's to me,
it's just letting it, just like yousaid, flow out of you.
And honesty and the depthsand and just to
and you can do that out loudor I can do that on paper.

(15:43):
It is a different experience.
It uses a different part of your brain,
the parts of your
brain, than just talkingwhen you're writing.
But there's, more like thingsworking together, which is good
because your, you're working with
the other things that are going onwith you and getting more out.
So I would just sayif you have never tried it

(16:06):
and you're listeningand you would like to,
to try something different, please do.
And I like to keep a journal.
When you came back in itand read and realize,
okay, look where God kind of likethe Israelites with their history.
Right?
And they said, Amber,where God has brought us from. Yes.

(16:26):
And when you go back, When you go back,you read it and you see, oh,
my God, God has brought mefrom here to here.
And now he will bring me to here.
Yes, yes, it's very encouraging.
It totally builds our faith.It really does.
I think it was Emerson that said,
all I have seen teaches me to trust Godfor all I have not seen.

(16:49):
And, when we see what God has donein the past and encourage us,
encourage us to deal with the problemthat we're dealing with,
that, that he will he will make a waywith the current problem.
Absolutely.
I kind of like a it's like a diary of God.
Yes, absolutely.
He through things. Yes.
The answers many of us, including myself,have prayed and prayed and prayed

(17:14):
and prayed for a wounded child that, likeGod, has an answer for a very long time.
Not in the way we want it.
I'll give you my own example.
I, I had a daughter who have a daughter
who had was born with health problems
and as an infant gonethrough a lot of things
and then a lot of emotional things,and some were from our

(17:36):
dysfunctional family,unfortunately, that we raised her in.
But that then just it seemed likethings happened in her life,
that it was justone thing on top of another.
And when she was, kind of like,I think around 18 years old, I was honest
with God.
I was like, I don't want to praybecause when I pray for her,

(17:58):
it feels like something else bad happens.
There was about 2 or 3 years where I it'sjust like, I don't know what's going on.
I'm not going to pray anything specificbecause it doesn't seem like things
go well. Now.
I did not lose my faith.
I walk away from God.
But I was honest with God.
I was like, I don't know what to pray to.

(18:19):
I don't know what to do here.
I'm going tojust have to leave it in your hands
and try to hang in here.
And like you said, give me wisdom to go.
But I couldn't pray specifically.
So what would you say?
And can you, include or share

(18:41):
the prayer that you know, he seesand is there the prayer based on Hagar.
Okay.
Well first of all I'd like to just addresswhat you shared.
And I believe it was like you're,you're speaking to people
who prayed and prayed and prayed andit doesn't seem to make any difference.
In fact, sometimes things get worse.
Is that correct? Yes. Okay. Great. Okay.

(19:03):
I actually love that questionthat was a my favorite one.
And I felt likewe could do a whole podcast on that.
Because it's somethingthat a lot of people carry
and they stuff the pain inside.
And I also have a wounded child.
I have dealt with 11 ODsand four suicide attempts,

(19:24):
and he knows I'm sharing thisand we're still not there yet.
So I feel for the listenerand I feel for you, Karla.
It's is such a difficult journey,
but I want to address that question.
And I know from a scriptural standpointI can share about how David prayed
and prayed and his prayer was not answereduntil finally there was a breakthrough.

(19:47):
And I also know there's a scripture
that says we should always prayand not give up.
And I also know there's another scripturethat says, the Lord is not slack
concerning his promises,but as long suffering tourists not willing
that any should perish,but that all should come to repentance.
And I know I have prayed that for my kidsbefore as well.
And there is scriptures, obviously,to keep on praying,

(20:10):
but I'd like to address itfrom a totally different angle.
In the early church,there was a practice of people
offering up their sufferingsto God as a holy sacrifice,
as something for God to redeem,
to restore, to to meet, to meet Christ

(20:30):
with the
cross, to know the cross of Christ more
and more, to offer up their adversity,to offer up their sufferings.
And it is suffering.
When you have prayed for a childand it doesn't seem like
it's ever going to end,you don't see any answers.
I would totally encourage listenersto offer up
that sacrifice that, that hurt,that pain, that inner despair

(20:55):
that often goes on express to Godas a holy offering to him.
And why I say it's a holy offering,because I believe
that your prayers for your daughterwere very scriptural.
You wanted wellness, wholeness, salvation,her to be surrendered to Christ.
A sound mind,all the things that are scriptural.

(21:17):
There were holy prayers, and I believethat's probably true of listeners as well.
Anyone who just keeps prayingand praying and praying,
wanting the best for their child.
It shows just a parent's heart of lovethat is so scriptural.
But to offer that up to God andlet him redeem let him redeem your pain.
Just a brief example of my own life.
I remember a time where I desperatelywanted redemption for all the prayers

(21:42):
and calling other peopleand asking them to pray to him.
Got it. this going on of this crisis.
And I remember one time being, in a jail
with a whole bunch of mothers,visiting their sons.
And I decidedI don't know what got into him, but I just
decided to tap one mom.
I said, hey,you want to even just pray afterwards?
Anyways,other mothers started tapping mothers.

(22:04):
Let's just pray afterwards.
Well, when we went out to the parking lot,we held hands,
we wept, we told our stories,and we prayed.
And I will always rememberthe presence of God,
the Holy Spiritbeing so present in our pain.
That was a gift.
God gave me a redemptive gift.
And so I would strongly encouragelisteners to just offer that up to God.

(22:26):
As as, as a holy gift to him,
as an, as in the practiceof the early church and also, just briefly
missionary and, teacher as she, she's goneto be with the Lord, Elizabeth Elliott.
Her writings are just amazing.
She use that practice as wellwith all her sufferings, the murder of her
first husband and then being widowedagain, offering up her pain to the Lord.

(22:49):
And and I don't think that God
purposefully puts us through thatso that we can offer that praise to him.
I don't know thatwe know exactly how that works, because
he is
glorifiedin it, and that when Christ appears that
all of our trials are going to going,going to like, bring glory to him, right?

(23:11):
I often look at thatand I think, okay, it's because I don't,
I don't when I hear people pray about
or say something like, well, God is goingto is going to bring you through trials
so that he can do this, I think.
So is that my loving father who says that
just like a father or a mother,that he would not watch?

(23:33):
What parent would give your child fishwhen he asked for bread or whatever it is?
You know, we're going to give our child.
We want to give our child,but our child needs right?
Look at itas God is purposefully doing that.
I look at it more as andI think you might agree with me,
but you can tell meif you don't show us a way, like you

(23:53):
said, of making us more like Christ.
Yes. Also, I think of
like not testing our faith in a mean way,but giving us
an opportunityto continue to trust God through it.
Like, kind of like job,
even though, you know, even thoughhe slay me no matter what I kind of like.

(24:14):
I sometimes tell people,I think the most important thing
when we get to heaven isGod is going to go.
Did you keep did you keep hanging on?
Yes, yes.
No matter what happened,did you keep this one?
And I'm going to go. Yeah.
This time is but yeah my otherand yeah for me
anyway me and maybe not perfectly. Yes.

(24:35):
Perfectly and maybe very humanly but I
but I didn't let go and I, I
and I think that that glorifies Godjust like the Israelites in the desert.
God says that he wanted themto continue to trust him no matter what.
And they messed up. They didn't do it.They didn't do that.
They stopped believing.

(24:56):
They doubted every timethey turned the corner.
It's like, all right,but that doesn't mean we can't tell God.
Like I'm wavering right now or I don'tget it or I don't understand it or,
but I
think it's just a matter of ofit is all going to work together.
But I love that idea of bringing upand the idea of laments.

(25:17):
Yes, yes. Not for a minute.
That's not a word that you use,I don't think, in your book, but,
I've got a couple of books I bought awhile ago that I want to read on.
Understanding lamentslike lamentations, yes, Scripture.
And yes, because the Jewishpeople know how to grieve.
They do. They're not afraid of it.
I think it's just, to me, I love

(25:39):
I love being able to lament.
And I believe the Psalms are richwith that as well.
And obviously the Book of Lamentations.
But it’s being unafraid to grieve it’sbeing unafraid to pour out our heart,
just to trust in him at all times,to pour out our heart before him.
He is a refuge for us,and I do agree with you.
It's not like I believeGod is up there like, oh, one more trial

(26:02):
she's going to get really,lots of Christ likeness here or something.
I believe that we live in such a sinscarred world,
and our trials are really the resultof our sin scarred world.
Our world is far from perfect
and so much of the sin in our world,the sin,

(26:22):
the sin seems to breedthe trials that we have as well.
So I do believewe have a loving father in in our pain.
He weeps with us. Yeah.
And he can be present with us,
and he can hold his close in waysthat are just indescribable.
Yeah.
And in the end,he does promise to use all that for our.

(26:43):
Yes, it's glorious,but I don't think he brings it
into us on purpose to me. Yes.
And I think that it'sa much more beautiful way
and a much more loving way to see that
than to think, oh, God, actually, God'sbringing another trial into my life.
I'm really bad.
Yeah, like a messthat's punishing you again, right.

(27:06):
So another,
section, or doyou want to read that prayer from Hagar?
Oh, he sees and is there.
Sure. Let me do that right now. One base.
I loved that one.
I'd like to think I'd like peopleto hear a few of their prayers so that.
No, thank you very much.
Let me get. We'll return to that here.
Okay. You can show your book.
Okay. I meant to bring mine.I left it in the. Okay. Sure.

(27:27):
I it was.
Yes. It's a beautiful cover I love it.
Oh, thank you very much.
Yeah.
The cover is like, a couple walkingtheir child from darkness into the light.
That's the symbolism for that.
And, one of my favorite authors,Jody Bird, graciously endorsed it,
so I was very thrilled about that.
Let me turn to the prayer with Hagar here.Thank you.
All right.
This is a prayer based on Hagar. Hagar.

(27:50):
Of course. Was she.
She felt rejection.
She felt abandonment.She felt deep despair.
She was pregnant.
And Sarah was incredibly jealous.
And basically throughout.
So. And maybe you have felt that way.
And I can relate to a lotof what she went through.
Anyways, I was just go ahead and read thisprayer, prayer based on Hagar.

(28:13):
Father God, I know that centuries ago,a woman named Hagar
was betrayed in a hideous,hateful way by one she trusted
Hagar salt misunderstoodand hurt beyond belief.
Her pain was unthinkable, probably in ways
she was even unable to articulate.
Hagar felt this deep woundednessin her soul, a woundedness

(28:35):
of being discarded, abusedfor simply being herself
unappreciated, insignificant in lightof what others appeared to be doing.
Father
God, sometimesI feel like Hagar on this journey.
At times I feel misunderstoodand not valued.
I don't know if all this hard workwill mean anything or do anything,
and at timesit just feels like it's all for naught.

(28:58):
Yet you have thisremarkable story of Hagar in the Bible,
and sometimes I feelit has been written for me.
At her lowest point, Hagarcried out to you and found you there.
You assured herthat you were hearing her cries.
You assured herthat you were indeed present and began
to direct her paths, even using an angel.

(29:18):
Lord, I need to know what Hagar knew.
I need to know that you're there.
I cry out to youin my pain and frustration.
Please make yourself known or be present.
I don't deserve it yet I ask.
Thank you for hearing my criesand that you will answer me in your time.
Thank you for the assurances in your word.

(29:39):
Thank you for the hearttouches of peace in my soul that I feel
even relinquishing all this to you.
Thank you that you are a
God who truly seesand can redeem all things.
Thank you that you are a God for whom
nothing is too hardand nobody is beyond your reach.
Thank you for listening to my prayer.

(30:01):
In Jesus name, Amen.
I love that it's faith building.
It's also really honest.
Yeah. Yes.
Another section is calledpraying for Your Child to Overcome
and Heal from Trauma, and you've listedquite a few of those.

(30:22):
Now, when I read that, I think, okay,
I was a speech pathologist for 20 yearsbefore I was a marriage family therapist.
And so I'm very, very,
aware of what happens to the brainand when we have, like, accidents.
I know you are to, as a chaplain,when we have damage,
brain damage,when we have psychological trauma.

(30:45):
And I think, whoa, that's like,I often say to people, it's not like God
is going to instantly just heal physicallythe trauma in your brain
or take the trauma out of your brain,because that is a part of your memory.
And your memory is a part of who you are.
And the memory is storedin all parts of your brain.

(31:07):
So it's not like all of a sudden likeit's like you're going to have amnesia
and trauma is going to be removedas if it never happened
or as if it never affected you.
So when I think of that, I think, okay,
how is God going to same thingwith mental illness.
You know, it's not likeGod is going to going to take

(31:30):
the mental illnesscompletely out of the brain,
or change the brain cellsto where you are a different person,
because all of that ispart of who you are.
It's a part of your genetic.
It's a part of your experience.
It's a part of your memory. Yes.
and becomes a part of your personality.
Your temperament is sometimes involvedwith a certain temperaments

(31:50):
that are more prone to depressionor anxiety of perfectionism.
And so I just, I think sometimes like,what are we saying?
when we're praying for somebodywho has mental illness, it's like, God,
take my depression away.
It's like, I don't believe for peoplewho depression doesn't leave.
I know I often feel like prayersthat I hear in church for like mental

(32:13):
illness and stuff are really, really badfor people who have true mental illness
because it makes it seem likeGod can just whoops, it's gone.
And so away from being prayed for for,mental illness
and you still have that anxiety,that depression,
you feel like you’re bad,something's wrong with you

(32:34):
because you didn't have enough faithor didn't answer that prayer
and he didn't take it away.
And it can actuallyput you into more despair.
I know I just brought a bajillion topics.
That's quite all right.There are very good.
I'm just going to give this backa tad. It. Yes.
Oh yes.
You I appreciate what you shared.

(32:55):
And my sense is I think you wantedto ask me for my take on that is.
Absolutely. Yes.
Well, there's nothingI disagree with you with there at all.
And I feel for people because I haveI remember calling prayer lines
and, the knee jerk reaction we're going toGod's going to give us a miracle.
We're going to declare a decree, all of that.

(33:18):
And then the miracle didn't happen.
And, my question was, didn'tI have enough faith?
I mean, I know I had faith.
What is what is going on?
And I believe
that,
there is much thatwe will never know about in this world.
There's so muchhis ways are higher than our ways.
His thoughts are higher than our ways.

(33:38):
And when you're dealing with somethinglike mental illness or addiction
or even physical illnessthat is rooted in our attitudes,
we're talking about a different ballgame.
Yeah.
And hopefully this won't offend people.
When I,
I do agree 100%
with the genetic componentregarding all of those areas.

(34:02):
Yet I also believe that to an extent,
there are a lot of choicesthat people have to make.
It is incredibly hard for them
to take the higher ground,to take the harder choice,
because all their geneticsare warring against that.
Everything is within them.
Yet at the same time,

(34:22):
when I have prayed for healing overaddiction or healing over PTSD,
I also recognizethat people have to make choices.
I could do a blanket prayer, you know,heal my, one of my children's PTSD.
But I also realized that that childhas to make a choice
to get help for the PTSD,and I have no control over that.

(34:45):
I sure wish I did, but I don't.
I have only control over myselfand my own choices.
I don't know if that's really answeredyour question or not,
but I, I do feel for mothers and fathersout there
who may feel like, oh, I don't have enoughspace, faith, or the miracle
didn't come let's, you know, and,you know,
they may go through periods of doubt,especially when people say,

(35:06):
I got a miracle or is,I mean, it's kind of like
God is not a sugar daddy for miraclesand that he, we live
in a sin scared world, and I believe a lotof what we're going through.
He works together for good.
And part of working togetherfor good is we.
We can get to know him as never before.
We can cleave to him in ways unspeakable.

(35:28):
And, he can use our pain in others lives
because we can go down and dirtywhere they're at.
Again, I hope I,I feel a little incomplete here,
but I, I hope I answered your question.
Well, I think what I'm kind of gettingat there is, is, what are we praying for?
Are we praying for God to heal itinstantly, which is the go to place

(35:52):
that Christians go to thatI think is wholly inadequate
as a standard response.
Right.
Anyone who has physical illness,mental illness or trauma
because it is a very complex thingand it is kind of explaining,

(36:12):
I don't think God just rearrangesbrain cells and some of our memory away
of traumatic events, butdefinitely can help set things in motion.
Work on the heart, like you said to,to make up, to help a person
not make because we choose, like you said,but to open up a person's

(36:33):
heart through the,guidance of the Holy Spirit,
or, to be open to something or
right to be in that, into that person'spath.
If you are often instantaneous,maybe it's giving, some type of,
some type of, softening in that person'sheart or a touch of God

(36:53):
to give that person hope, right?
All kinds of different things.
But I just don't like the
only praying for healing.
Right? We're talking about those areas
like instant healing,because right doesn't happen.
It's so discouraging.

(37:14):
Oh I agreeand kind of like to kind of append
or what you're saying it's wonderfulto go in the heart of God.
Yeah.
About a person, you know, and to prayfor everything you might know about them,
even the way they dress,even the way they feel about themselves.
I, I've, I've wept for my kids at times
because I felt like they did not knowthe love of God.

(37:39):
I've wept, and I pray that they could seethemselves the way Christ sees them
and I believe two
in prayers that I think one of the, the
I guess it'sa gift of having a wounded child
because we have we can developpotentially, a deeper prayer life.
But I believe in praying for peopleto address, again

(38:03):
socially that God would raise upthe right friends,
that we put a hedge of protectionfor the wrong friends, especially friends
who try to put them down,who are not really friends.
And a lot of times our wounded kidswill gravitate to the wrong people.
People that will affirm the negativity,but will affirm low self-esteem
to really pray in depththat God will just raise up friends.

(38:26):
That and that might be part of a miraclethat are are people that are replenishing,
that would see our child to Christ's eyes
and again, to pray for a soundness of mindthat they wouldn't reach for the bottle
when they’re stressed,but reach for their Bible
and, just the mental aspect, the,
the physical aspect, just,that they would take care of their bodies,

(38:47):
that, the spiritual, that they would havea supernatural hunger for God.
I mean, there's so, there'sso many aspects to a person, and
I think I don't want to say as a cop outto say, well, pray for this miracle.
We're standing on it.We're 2 or 3. Agreed.
And it will be done.
And then again, when it doesn't happen,it's devastating.
Is is utterly devastating.

(39:09):
So thank you. For what?
Thank you for that question. Yeah.
And and I'm not. Yeah.
I also with you I'm not trying to put downanybody who does.
Right.
And asking for prayer for healing.
And I and I do pray for healing.
I do pray for healing too, as well.
Yes. But I am careful with my expectation.
Right?
And I'm carefulto not lead people into a place

(39:33):
where they're hanging on to just a miracleand not living in reality
and maybe making decisionsthat need to be made, So, like you said,
these couple of questions,we could go on for an hour just on those.
But yeah.
So your your prayersfor abuse and prayers for abandonment,

(39:55):
those were all those areasand others that had to do with trauma.
And sowe kind of touched this a little bit.
Can we be totally honest with Godand pour out our emotions.
But I have a scripture herethat I want to talk to you about.
That's something that's touched my ownlife.
Genesis 32:24-28.
And these are

(40:15):
a few of those verses from that sectionsays, this is the story of Jacob.
Jacob says, so Jacob was left alone,
and a man wrestled with him till daybreak,when he was wrestling with thee.
There is, some people say, an angel.Some people say the Lord.
It says when the man saw that
he could not overpowering him,he touched the socket of Jacob's hip

(40:36):
so that the hip was wrenchedas he wrestled with the man.
Then the man said, let me go, forit is daybreak.
But Jacob replied,I will not let you go unless you bless me.
Then the man said, your namewill no longer be Jacob but Israel,
because you have struggled with Godand with humans, and have overcome.

(40:57):
Some suggest that this was a pictureof a test of our faith
that we hold on even when we are woundedand exhausted and still rely on God.
I also see it
as God allowing
us to speak honestlyand to contend with him.
And I mean contend with him.
And I have done this. Me too.

(41:19):
in my relationship with God,where I have just been like, God,
you allowed this child to be born
with these problems and experience this.
And I have done this and I have obeyedyou, and I have been faithful
and I have been I have done this,this and that, and I am calling on you

(41:40):
to not let this child die
or not let this child not be saved orand I mean, I have just I have just
and it's not like in a like an arrogantway, I know Job did this.
I see Job as contending with God and yes,God in a way,

(42:01):
kind of came to himlater and said, whoa, whoa, whoa.
You stepped over herea little bit too far,
But I also think that God, I like Godhonored that because Job did that.
And look what God did for him.
He gave him so much more like.
But he allowed Job to contend with himand friends like he was.
It was okay.
And so I've done that talk about that.

(42:23):
Sure.
Well, first of all, Ijust want to go back to our last question.
I wanted to clarify,and maybe there's no need for this.
I do believe that God is capableof miracles.
All things are possible with him now.
But I also recognize, for whateverreason, in the church today,
I have seen time and time againpeople do like a one once and done.

(42:44):
Kind of like just slap thiswith a miracle, a two minute prayer.
And, I'm not saying God is not capableof answering that prayer
or anything like that, but,I've just I've seen kind of like a misuse,
but I, I yeah, I do believethat he is capable of doing that.
Absolutely.
In regards to the, the last question,I see that is as

(43:06):
God was literally wrestlingwith with Jacob.
I mean, there was a the figurativebut it was also the spiritual.
And I truly believe that, can bethat can be part of our prayers as well.
I've experienced that as well.
And that is my interpretation of that.
And I'm just going to share an example.

(43:27):
I know of a woman whose son was in a teenchallenge or rehab in another state,
and that young man, togetherwith a bunch of others, ran away.
And where they wererunning was very dangerous.
And so what did this mother do?
Of course she couldn't sleep.
So she, the way she prayed, her personalway was to pace, to walk up and down.

(43:49):
So she walked and walked and walkedand walked in the middle of the night.
And she, within her homeand, is what I understand.
And she walked and walked and walked,wrestling with God in prayer
until she finally felt like,okay, God is heard.
God will take care of him.

(44:10):
It is enough. I can go back to sleep.
He will be okay.
I think it's a wonderful analogy here.
I also know of this one situationwhere a child was, was critically ill,
someone flew in from another state
and spent four hours in prayerjust wrestling with God,
and then turned to the father and said,I believe your child is going to be okay.

(44:32):
I it's it'skind of like one of those situations
where we, we have to go in depth with God.
And usually it happens with a crisislike it, as in the example
you used, where we just pour out our heart
with anger with God, and we,we don't feel the Holy Spirit's release.
I think there was an expression for itin the old days of the church.

(44:55):
I'm not talking about the early church,but I'm talking about the church
50 years ago,
when people would just wrestle in prayeruntil they would feel God's peace.
That is my interpretation of that.
And I don't think I,I don't think that should be discarded.
I think believe that Scriptureis intentional for us to learn of that,

(45:15):
that there are times when we justwe have to pour our heart
and the Holy Spiritjust keeps encouraging us.
There's more there.
we're not at rest, to keep talking, tokeep crying, to keep pouring out our heart
until we finally, feelthat the release has been been made
and it doesn't mean that it's for suregoing to happen.

(45:36):
Exactly, exactly.
Like if somebody prays for,a child to be healed
and they feel like, okay,that's going to happen or I'm released,
that God's going to do thatand then it doesn't happen.
It doesn't mean that
something is wrong with youor that you didn't pray enough.

(45:57):
I also don't like to give peoplethat impression.
It's just it, it it wasn't God's planor will or it just didn't happen.
But in that you can still trust, right?
God heard your prayers. And exactly.
And I often say to people,
they're like, well, my child diedand I don't know if my child was saved.

(46:17):
And I said to me,you prayed for your child all those years.
You cancan you trust that God knows is God?
Yes. Reached outand you don't know it's in
some dark corner or moment
before that child left this world
that God did not reach downand touch that child's heart.

(46:38):
We have to.
We have to trust, even in those timesthat that God did hear our prayers
and that he honored thoseand that it wasn't in our
way, that it was exactly.
Oh, I so agree 100%.
I rememberpraying that when it looked like
I was going to have a miscarriage and,I was all over the place with prayers

(47:00):
and, thenI told a release that I also felt like
the Holy Spirit prepared mefor the miscarriage, if that makes sense.
There was peace or it was like, whateverthy will be done, thy will be done.
You know, just, so, yes, yes, I,I love that question too.
It was is very thought provoking.
I believe it's very much needed.

(47:23):
Yeah, it's it's where we live.
Oh, absolutely. Yes.
In this world.
And yes, like you said, it's like,I don't like the one and done
kind of pray for you,but then I'll never follow up
and ask you how you're doingor I won't provide any, supportive
care programs through care ministryat church for mentally ill people

(47:43):
or families, or, or addiction,recovery programs, or there's so much
that can be offered to support peoplethat are walking with heavy loads.
And I agree, if we're, if we're going to
to take care of them,those are the kinds of things we can do.
And not just prayingthat God would fix it instantly and then

(48:05):
yeah those people and walk away. Yeah.
Because yeah absolutely.
Yeah I appreciate what you saidjust briefly.
the book of James says, we'reto have faith, but we're also to action.
Yes. Yeah.
To recommend a support group as wellas having a personal prayer with them.
Yes. To give people resources like,yeah, resources that are available.
Okay.
So another section is prayersfor your wellness and wholeness, meaning

(48:29):
the person that is praying the prayers,one of those is hope over despair.
Please
share that prayer andwhy you Felt it important to include it.
And I think that that's for the personpraying the prayer.
I could be wrong.
It is. Yes it is. Absolutely. Yes.
And the last section, well,we actually do prayers for ourselves.
Just briefly, why I included it is this

(48:50):
I think it's very easy to deny,
to live in denial, that we are in despair.
It's very easy to suppress that,
and use food or whatever to,to suppress those feelings.
So I included that because I did notwant people to deny their own despair,
but rather to admit it and find

(49:12):
and turn to the FatherGod for help in the midst of despair.
And all through the scriptures,the the main players in scriptures
are people of despair.
So you have a lot of company there?
Yeah, some of the greatest saintsof old having people in despair.
So yeah, I'll go ahead and read thatprayer.
Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
And while you're looking for it,I'll just say, I remember hearing

(49:34):
about what's called the darknight of the soul.
Oh, yeah.
Some of the the greatest, like, saints
and the greatest, of our of our peoplethat came before us,
that we would read about their ministryand what things God did with it.
They all had what was called a dark nightof the soul, which was where the times

(49:55):
where they felt that God wasn't answeringand he couldn't be felt
and he couldn't be sensed, and that thatthe prayers were just hitting a ceiling.
And God was gone.
And they and they went through that.
And and even Mother Teresa talks aboutwhen she went through
that and I was like,oh my gosh, how could she?
And yet that is a part of walking with Godat times.

(50:20):
Absolutely, absolutely.
I, I totally agree.
And I, I appreciated what you sharebecause what you shared,
just validated the transparency of saints,of people that have gone before us.
They were transparent,they were vulnerable.
They didn't quit, but they were.
But they they were honest about thatdeep night of the soul.
Rather than denying it,repressing it, using food

(50:43):
or whatever, or pretending it was okay.
Yeah, exactly.
Putting on a great front. Yes, exactly.
Because I remember the comfort that I feltwhen I heard
for the first timethat that they had gone through that
into that.
And I was like, oh, wow, I can know
God is there even when I can't feel him

(51:06):
and feels likemy prayers aren't going anywhere,
and I don't I don't have all the,the feelings that go along with that.
I love that, yes, yes, I love that too.
I love that too.
And just not to feel so isolated.
Because we're we can't be like these super

(51:26):
happy creatures all the time in there,and and people
should not be put down if they're walkingthrough the valley of despair.
They're.
They need to be comforted.
They need to have someone walk with them.
It's not a matter of faith.
It's a matter of the circumstancesthat they're having to grapple with
that don't make sense?
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
Absolutely Yes.

(51:47):
Well,I'll I'll go ahead and read it. Okay.
This is prayer for hope over despair.
Father God, your word is bringing withhope the hope of knowing you
more intimately, the hope of being withGod and tasting his goodness.
Father God, I know that you are enough.
You are the great.
I am the one who can meet mein my deepest pain and struggle.

(52:09):
It was able to meet my every needand more.
Your word says my soul.
Wait in silence for God only formy hope is from him.
Father God,I know that you are the greatest hope.
You are the one I can cling to,the one who will never forsake me.
Lord, right now I feel my hope has been
washed away like destructive flood watersover my soul.

(52:32):
I feel parched and weak,like I am in a desert
desperately needing your living water.
My soul feels empty insideand my mind is confused.
I do not know how to handleand you can share honestly with the Lord
what you have to deal withsuch as overdoses, suicidal ideations,
gender confusion, chaos, and so forth.
It is beyond my scope.

(52:53):
This is all too much for me.
I cannot handle it.
Yet. You are Father God and I love that.
I can call you ABBA Father.
My daddy. How that brings joy to my heart.
You alsopromise me that my tears are not wasted.
You even hold them in a bottle.
Father God, you promise to, in your wordthat you give beauty for ashes

(53:16):
and are near to the brokenhearted.
Please restore.
My hope is only you can.
Please give me a nugget of wisdomfrom your word of self
for another sojourner.
All I know to do is to commit my problemsand my heart to you.
As Your Word lovingly instructs me.
So sweet Jesus,who understands my deepest pain.

(53:36):
I surrender my heartin this situation to you.
Thank you for hearing my heart cries,and thank you for being a God
who loves me and my loved oneswith an everlasting love.
I love you Lord,and I thank you that you are my hope.
In the name of Jesus, Amen.
Oh, that just gives me like goosebumpsbecause like,
and you think about all of the times

(53:58):
that I've been in that placeand that just articulates it.
So well. Thank you.
So the other
sections we haven't covered, prayersfor your wellness and wholeness.
There were other areas and not to whereyou've written to support the parent.
Another is praying for your child'sdevelopment,
which I loved because all of our childrenhave been impacted.

(54:20):
I know my daughter had, was born with,with, physical problems and was affected
by a lot of anxietythat I had during my pregnancy with her.
So prayers for your child's developmentbecause, that's going on too.
And, so I love thatyou have also included in the back

(54:41):
an extensive, resource listat the back of the book
for all kinds of different areas,and that you could have never stopped.
And that if you want it,but it's quite extensive.
Thank you.
I really appreciated that.
As we're closing, what thoughtwould you like to leave with our listeners
who are overwhelming, overwhelmedby with caring for a wounded child?

(55:06):
Probably two thoughts.
And some of thisyou may have already done, already, but
I would encourage you to do this dailyif necessary.
I believe, in personal surrender,surrendering the situation to God.
Surrender yourself to God.
Surrenderyour words. Surrender your tears.
Even like as I shared earlier.

(55:26):
Like your suffering as an offering to God.
I. And then using this,
using this
challenge, which in Chinese meansopportunity
as an opportunity to draw tight with Godto to just use this
trial as a opportunityto become very intimate and close to God.

(55:48):
That is the first thought.
The second thought would be to practiceself-care.
Self-care is scriptural.
The Bible says, love your neighboras yourself and And loving
our loving ourselves is on an equal parwith loving our neighbor.
So we're to love ourselvesfor to take care of ourselves,
our bodies,our temples of the Holy Spirit as well.

(56:08):
God has a plan for our life, a good planfor our life as well as our kids.
It's very easyto put everything in your child's life
to invest everything in your child'slife. And I did that.
But so I justI truly, truly believe in self-care.
Even, even maybe having a buddy toothat will
you can be accountable for self care,even write out on your your planner.

(56:32):
One small thing for self-care,whether it's listening to a funny cat
video or, or just breathing in the scentfrom a candle, whatever.
Everybody has different waysfor self-care.
So those are the two thoughts
I would leave for the the whatthat what that thought of self-care.
I mean, it's like you're on an airplaneand then you put the mask on yourself

(56:54):
before you put the mask on. A child,
because if you're not there
to take care of the child,the child's not going to do well.
So you've got to give yourself
good self-care, take care of your needs,and sometimes,
almost likebecause you can never take good enough

(57:16):
care with your wounded child,you can always do something more.
So you don't recognize
that you can't put everything into itand ignore yourself.
That that will not work.
You will not do well, that if you have,you've got to absolutely.

(57:36):
Sometimes I sayyou almost even have to put yourself first
to be happyin order to care for that child,
especially when they're, you know, adultsand you don't have the daily care
that you have to take care for them.
So, okay, well,thank you so much for having me
take you to those hard placesto answer those difficult questions.

(57:59):
And I'd like to say to those of youthat are listening this, to this
or watching this on YouTube, that,I read every comment.
And if you have questionsabout praying for a loved one
or a whether it's a child or
another person, and you want us to tackle

(58:19):
some more of those hard questions,I'm willing to go there.
If Virginia is willing to go therewith me, and we'll do a part two,
and we will answer your questionsabout prayer the best that we can.
And, I wouldI would welcome that opportunity.
Is that ok?
Yes. Absolutely, absolutely.

(58:40):
Okay.
Please tell our listeners
how they could contact youand how they can get your book.
Sure.
You can contact me at my websiteis VirginiaWellsAuthor.com.
You can also contact me through Facebook,my Facebook
page is Virginia Wells, Author.
If you care to email me, which I would.

(59:01):
Well, welcome mymy email is [e-mail].
My book is available at Amazon,
at Redemption Press,and at Barnes and Noble.
It should be availableat ChristianBook.com soon.
But the last I checked, it was not.
But, they have the bookand they need to to put it out there

(59:24):
so that the spa places they mightby the time it gets put up on my podcast.
So yeah.
That's true. Yeah.
Check there.
So, again, thank you so much.
Thank you very much.This has been wonderful.
And I know that it's both of our prayersfor those of you listening that would that
this would this honest discussionas well as her book.
And I was going to say if youif there's if there isn't a prayer

(59:47):
for your exact situation in this book,I think by reading it
that you are going to get the ideaand it is going to richly,
enhance your prayer lifeand you're going to have spontaneous
prayers,or you can change a few words in it
to make a prayerapply to your exact situation.
So don't feel like you know.

(01:00:08):
Well, like my situation, although you'vecovered a lot, isn't there?
That it won't I?
I was really deeply touchedand I have to be honest with you,
I having been in a difficult marriage
for a good part of my life,and from having, other things in my life,
I take most Christian prayer booksthat I see that people give, all that

(01:00:32):
I think pat answers and stuff,and I don't give them the time of day.
Yeah, I understand that totally.
I would say it's like a readinga marriage book on, with two people
that are healthyand working to two Christians
that are healthy,working on their marriage.
It's like from a difficult marriage,don't bother reading this.
I feel the same thing.

(01:00:52):
So when when you sent me this email,I'm going to tell you.
Mostly I would have said noto doing any thing on prayer.
It's so honest. Yes.
So I really appreciated that.
So I guess you can tellthat I'm endorsing her book.
If you're much a wounded childand you want to know how to prayer for it.

(01:01:13):
So thank you for watching and listening.
We I just ask that you would pass this onto somebody who,
you know, is carrying a heavy loadand that this would help them.
Please write to me if you haveany suggestions for, future episodes.
And I just pray that God would bless you.
And, I pray that you would comeback and listen again bye..

(01:01:36):
Thank you.
Thank you for listeningto Change My Relationship.
We hope you will subscribe to thesepodcasts and share them with your friends.
Karla would love to hear from you.
She welcomes ideas for a future podcast,as well as your feedback
on how the podcasts have helped your lifeand relationships.
You can email her at.
[e-mail]

(01:01:59):
For more informationon Change My Relationship and Karla
Downing's ministry, including her books,studies, devotionals, podcasts
and YouTube videosvisit changemyrelationship.com.