December 8, 2025 • 59 mins
Bobbie Tea describes an unbelievable lifetime of abuse starting at two years of age. Her story is living proof that abuse victims continue to pick abusers until they get strong enough to say, "No more!" In Bobbie's case, her abuse history included a pervasive family history of sexual molestation that strongly suggests there is a spiritual generational component.
According to the U.S. Department of Justice, statistics show that family members perpetrate 34% of child sexual abuse cases. According to Darkness to Light, a non-profit organization committed to preventing child sexual abuse, "The younger the victim, the more likely it is that the abuser is a family member. Of those molesting a child under six, 50% were family members. Family members also accounted for 23% of those abusing children ages 12 to 17." Ninety-one percent of child sexual abuse is perpetrated by someone the child or their family knows. Physical, verbal, and emotional abuse typically accompany sexual abuse.
Bobbie's story illustrates the resilience of abuse survivors and the power of God's love to heal. It is a story of pain and hope, at the same time.
Bobbie Tea's memoir, There Once Was a Girl: A Memoir With a Message, is available on Amazon. https://amzn.to/3XkOfaA
Website: https://www.changemyrelationship.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ChangeMyRelationship
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@changemyrelationship
Watch this video on YouTube: https://youtu.be/yDppTqmUttY
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
You're listening to a podcast by ChangeMy Relationship, featuring
licensed marriage and family therapistand author Karla Downing.
These podcast are designed to provide youwith practical solutions
based on biblical truthsfor all your relationships.
Today, Karla will be interviewing a guestwho has experienced
a relationship problemand successfully worked through it.
(00:32):
welcome to Change My Relationship podcast.
I have with me todaya woman who has experienced
horrendous childhoodand adult relationship abuse.
I'm not bringing that to youso that you can be
retraumatizedif you've been in an abusive relationship.
We're bringing that to youbecause we really want to focus on
(00:52):
the healing that is possible.
And, we want you to be able
to identify with the fact thatthat through the Lord and through help,
that you can be healed of even the impact
of extreme trauma from abuse.
Because I have to say,she she's written a biography
(01:13):
and, it's called There Once Was a Girland I have to say, a mutual friend
that introduced her to me, said, Iread her book and I couldn't put it down.
And I thought, well, I'mgoing to skim her book.
Well, I started at about 10:00 at night.
And do you know that I was likestanding up when I started reading it,
and I literally stood the entire timeI was reading it, did not put it down.
(01:38):
And when I finished, I realized thatmy body was just tight as I was listening.
As I was reading it,because, it was just,
I mean, horrendous,what you've gone through.
But again, we're bringing her to you
to help you see that hope is possibleand healing is possible.
So welcome, Bobbie Tea Thank you.
(02:01):
Karla. It's nice to be here.
Nice to meet you. You too.
So the book is called ThereOnce Was a Girl, a memoir with a message.
So we're going to start right off with
what was your early childhood like?
Well, okay.
So my dad, he was an angry,
(02:22):
alcoholic, very angry all the time.
I don't remember him being happy,not even when he was drinking.
Unless we had company.
And my mom was. She was more meek.
She was alcoholic.
I did not know that my whole entire life.
I didn't know that.
She was, like, more of a closet.
and my sister, even I remember my sistertelling me mom's alcoholic.
(02:45):
And I'm like, no, she's not.
I couldn't believe it.
But, in my early adulthood,I found out, yes, she was,
so, I mean, and so childhood was,
no happy memories.
It was just always trying to,
you know, stay away from my dad,you know, as much as I could,
(03:08):
when he was angry, my oldest brother,he was very, very distant.
He was,
in, Ithink, like, eight years older than me.
And then the next one downis another brother who was kind of like
dad's favorite.
Never got in trouble.
I couldn't understand my dad liked him,but didn't like anybody else.
(03:29):
Well, didn't like me or my oldest brotherand then I had a younger sister,
my baby sister who my mom coddled and,
my dad didn't seem to get angrywith them, with her.
So I used to think as a child
because my dad was overweight, man.
And growing up, my oldest brother and me,I was tiny.
(03:51):
Then, and then my, the next brother down.
And my sister, they were overweight too.
So in my mind I thought, well, that'swhy he likes them and doesn't like us.
That was theonly way I can make any sense out of it.
So you talked about
the fact that the abuse startedat a very young age,
and we're talking about sexual abuse.
(04:12):
Sexual molestation.
Right.
Were you four or was it younger even?
I was to two.
And I'm surprised that I have that memory.
But I have that memorypretty much solidified in my brain.
Yes, I was two and I believe
from what I can figure out,my mom was in the hospital.
(04:33):
I mean, my sister and I just rememberit was in the evening with my dad
and it was with your dad,and that's when it started.
Okay.
And then did it just continuelike fairly regularly with your dad?
Till how old?
With my dad,I think it was more, kind of random.
I guess that's the only way I could say,until I was 13 with my dad,
(04:55):
kind of off and on, but,
like my brother,not my oldest, but the second brother.
He joined in when I was four,and that continued with him.
That was all the time with him.
Any chance he could get in?
Always in the middle of the night.
Until I was 13.
And then I had an uncle. I had a cousin.
(05:16):
It just it's kind of like, I don't know,
I feel like it's a demonic thing as well.
It, it,I mean, when you when you read the book,
it really feels like thatbecause it was so pervasive.
And I think you said at one timethat your aunt, you told your aunt
or somehow your aunt found outand you was this one who.
(05:37):
Then she kept him away.
But then you found out laterit actually happened in his.
He did it to his own childrenor stepchildren too that.
That was, that was later on.
And that was a husband.
That was a husband.
Wow, yeah. So yeah.
So there's justand you know, it is true that incest
and sexual abusedoes continue in families.
(06:00):
It is something just like alcoholism
that tends to pass downgenerally generationally.
Do you think your mom knewwhat was happening?
I know my mom knewbecause there was one incident
that I remember very wellthat it was a Saturday morning and I was,
it was a weekend.
I just know it was a weekendbecause I was in their room.
(06:23):
My mom wasn't in the room.
Things were happening with my dad.
My mom walked in, look to give us botha dirty look and slammed the door.
And so, my little mind,
it's just like, oh, mom's mad.
But apparently this is okay.
But I wasn't okay with it. I wasn't.
(06:44):
The only thing I was okay
with was getting the attentionthat I didn't normally get.
But, from then on, I always knew
my mom didn't like me, butI didn't know why my mom didn't like me.
But it never deterred me from loving herand wanting a relationship with her,
you know? So you still had that desire?
(07:05):
Oh, were you torn betweenpleasing your mom
and then by not doingthose things, are allowing your dad
to do those things orand then trying to please your dad?
Or was it just sort of a thingthat you accepted that
this is what I need to do?
I just accepted it as normalbecause I think
(07:26):
because it started when I was so young,and then it continued
like the incident with my unclewhen I was four.
I did go tell my momI was so uncomfortable and my mom was.
My mom always would get franticand she started screaming and saying,
tell your dad what he did. Tell your dad.
And I rememberI was so scared to tell my dad.
And I looked up at himand he gave me that look.
(07:48):
He does not say anything about him,so he did it.
And police were called.
And my aunt was sayinghe would never do that.
He would never do that.
And it was all determined.
I was a liar. Wow.
So I knew best to never say a word again.
So the police actually said
(08:09):
that you were or decidedthat you were lying?
Yeah.
Based on what the uncle was saying,the aunt was saying
and what I could articulateat four years old.
So, and that.
But I know laterI call my mom talking to one of my aunts,
other aunts, and she was saying,I just overheard this.
(08:32):
My mom never had a conversation with me.
She just said, oh, they want Bobbieto go to court because they found out
he was molesting all her daughtersand she had five daughters.
Wow. Okay. My goodness. I
just even in the words that you just used,you said
when your dad looked at you,but the police were there.
(08:54):
He looked at you and.
No, your mom, you said.
Your mom said we're going to have totell your dad what you did.
Those kinds of
wording, that kind of wording,
saying what you didlike you did something wrong
when you were four years oldand it was a grown man who was doing this.
(09:18):
It had nothing to do with what you did.
It was what he did.
But that's what happenswhen the family system is so dysfunctional
that you get the blame for something
that you had absolutely no control over.
Yeah.
It's just so toxic.
And and you remember feeling like
(09:40):
nobody believes me.
Did you did you doubt yourselfthat even at that early age?
No. You knew that
I knew, I just knew I couldn't tell,I just knew, I couldn't tell.
Wow. Yeah. Oh, okay.
So we know that childhood abuse
sets you up, like,when people are violating
(10:00):
your body boundariesand doing those things to you.
We know you carry the shame.
even if it feels normal.
There's something, like you said insidethat didn't feel right about it.
And So that sets you up for later abuse.
So tell me about your firstor your first major
(10:22):
relationship in high school.
Okay, so I was 15.
I met a guy. He was 24.
Nobody seemed to care.
Yeah, that I was 15, that he was 24.
And, starting off the first year,he wasn't abusive,
but he was verbally abusive,like, put me down and that kind of stuff.
(10:45):
And, I would always go back to,he paid attention to me.
He had that kind of charming personality.
And I found myself pregnant at 16.
The day I found out I was pregnant,I told my mom.
She told me I had to go home with him.
And that was the first dayof getting physically abused.
(11:07):
I was making.
He told me to make him scrambled eggs.
Apparently I didn't do it right,so he hit me in the face.
It knocked me down, told me to get upand do it his way, which I did.
And that was the very beginning.
Of eight years with him.
That was.
It was horrendous.
And were you in his family homeor when did you go, like to his apartment?
(11:31):
To his apartment? Yes.
Yeah. So he's 24.
Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. So did you get married to him?
I didn't I didn't get married.
I just, I stayed with him, I ran, ran,
I hid from him, I but he justhe followed me.
He stopped me.
(11:52):
And my family didn't protect me.
And my dad would get mad at me and tell me
I had to leave there, Soit was a kind of a back and forth thing.
And I ended up having four kids from him.
But, my second set withthey were twins and one of the twins died.
Yeah. And, and then I had, another son.
(12:14):
So there were three,three boys by him, four, essentially.
But one died. Okay.
So that whole relationship for eight yearswas physically
abusive, was probably sexually abusive,
just all kinds of physical abuse,verbal, emotional abuse.
Did you try to leave?
Did you? Yes.
(12:36):
I left one time for a year,went out of state.
But I was so broken,so messed up and ended up coming back.
And he found me, and, I
that's when I ended up pregnantwith the third child.
Because when he did, because I was hidingand I wanted to see my mom so bad.
So I went to visitmy mom without the other kids.
(12:57):
And how he knew I don't know.
He was standing there
when I came out of her houseand I just thought, oh my goodness.
And yeah, so I
yeah, it was police being called.
It was for eight years. It was horrendous.
And those three boys of mine,
(13:18):
you know, they they struggled too.
They saw their mom, you know, Bambi and
the fighting and it was chaos.
It was, you know, there was one timeI had to hide at a motel and finally
the police let me back and and theywhen they when we did go in, they,
(13:43):
you know, had guns pulled and found himshooting up cocaine and took him to jail.
And he again,he always told me he was going to kill me.
And I believe that had I stayed,he would have killed me and the kids.
And so that's how he kept control of me.
Yeah, absolutely.
That is a threat that,you are actually terrified over.
(14:05):
Did your dad physically beat you? Yes.
And your mom?
No. My mom would slap my face a lot,
and I didn't.
Their dad was not physically abusivewith you.
Yes. My him.
No, no, he wasn't with my mom.
He was mean to her. He was.
He was disrespectful.
He had girlfriends.
(14:27):
He was a pervert.
We we caught himnumerous times up on the roof
with binoculars,staring at the neighbor woman.
Well, and
when he would drive with us little girls,
he would be gawking at womensaying things to women.
It was. Yeah, it was.
(14:50):
It was a disgusting childthat I wish was different.
Yeah, definitely.
So your acceptanceof not only the sexual abuse,
but physical abuse and allthat was just programed in you as a child.
And how did you actually get out of thateight year relationship?
By dating another man,
(15:11):
by moving in with another man was.
And he still stalked me there.
And I ended up getting pregnantby this other man.
And that's when he left me alone.
He told me,he kept telling me, call on me.
You need to get an abortion.
You need to get an abortion.
You're our boys can't have,half siblings or whatever.
(15:35):
So it was in, it was maybe a little overeight years ago.
You actually had the, like,when you were with him,
you actually started dating somebody else.
He was in.
He was actually in jail.
Okay, so that was when you did that.
Yeah, yeah.
And otherwise I couldn'thave gotten away with that.
(15:56):
Yeah, he was in jail.
And, Yeah.
So that when that startedand then I moved in with this other man
and like I said, it was he left me alonewhen I wouldn't have an abortion.
Okay.
That wasa miracle because usually that makes them
very angry out of jealousy.
(16:18):
So yeah.
So what did that relationshipturn out to be like?
I would say on the surface
it seemed like it was a good relationship.
He had three kids, I had three.
We ended up having two more together.
So that was eight kids.
(16:38):
Eight? Yeah. I was your health.
Well, when I started that relationship,I was 23.
Okay.
24, I got pregnant at 24.
But it was more,he was passive aggressive.
So, it was more like I knew the look, likeI just had to make sure
everything was taken care of,the house was taken care.
(17:00):
The kids were taken care of because.
And essentially, in the very beginning,he did kick me out.
Okay?
With my kids and we I found an apartmentbecause my dad's like,
you're not coming back here.
So, Then I ended up going back with himfor a ten years.
It seemed okay. It seemed good.
Like on the surface, I just at that point,I shoved everything down.
(17:24):
I'm sure I am trying to take care of eightkids.
Yeah.
So to me,that was the happiest I'd ever been.
Me and the kids, me and the husband,it was very surface.
It was not a close bond or anything,but me and the kids, that was fun.
We went to church, Bible studies,all that kind of stuff. So.
(17:46):
So as long as I did
what I was supposed to do, it was okay.
Okay.
And the one you.
When were you, introduced to the Lord?
Actually, I was
introduced to you, when I was like,
it was before that relationship,and I did.
I went to a conference,and I did accept him.
(18:10):
You know, I just think because of my brokenness
and because of not having somebodywalking alongside to mentor me and help me
because I was so broken.
But I honestly believe, in spiteof all that, he had his hand on me.
He did? Yeah, he did.
So I would think I was a Christian,because I had that belief.
(18:34):
But I wasn't walking, surrendered to him.
Yeah, but there was no introduction ofchurch or God or Jesus as a child to you.
Yes, there was, but there was,there were in the Catholic religion.
Catholic. Well, I can remember
wondering.
Okay, we go to churchand we pretend like this
(18:56):
and we come home and here is this.
So and God is well, in the Catholicreligion it was more God was mean.
And you had to do,
or you had to go to confessionthat for for me, that's how I took it.
So but it was just kind of confusing,you know, here's this.
God, he'ssupposed to protect you and love you.
(19:17):
But yet when I came home, this was goingon, and it was like with my brother,
it was almost every night,being molested by him.
Wow. That's horrible.
Okay, so then this relationship,how did this
relationship go bad?
Okay, so I was 30,
(19:37):
and, I was at a Bible study,
and at the end of the Bible study,
whoever was praying, I don't even recall.
But all of a sudden, it was likethis whole entire realization that
my brother molested me for eight yearsas if it was new information to me.
And I was devastated.
(19:58):
If you had pressed it down to the pointthat you didn't even know it, no I didn't.
It was like it was new informationand it was devastated.
But prior to that,I was having panic attacks
and this morning, weird nightmares.
I was feeling like I couldn't function.
(20:19):
And then that that happened
and I know, I went to knowand tried to explain it to my husband.
He was like, okay.
It was not a big deal to them,but to me it was humongous
because then all the piecesstarted coming up with my dad
and, you know, the memory remembering,you know, the eight years with John and
(20:42):
and all the trauma I had gone through.
So you began through all of that,
came back to you, and then you're havingtrouble functioning.
Did you go get help like therapy, helpor anything?
Yeah.
My first step was I went to the churchI was going to,
and I went to a particular pastorthat I liked,
(21:04):
and I was telling him what was going on.
And he actually reached across his
desk, pointed his finger at me,said, you are a sinner.
You go back and get in bedwith your husband, put it in Jesus.
And I'm like, I'm trying to
I don't know what that meansor what that looks like.
And so so this was, not not in the Catholic religion.
(21:29):
This is a like a evangelical church.
And this wouldhave been how many years ago?
Well, about 30.
So it's about 30 years ago.
Yeah, 30 or 30 years ago.
And that pastor dismissedevery single thing you told him.
(21:49):
Oh, yeah.
And told you that just like you had beentold your entire life that it's.
You're the one that's to feel ashamed.
You're the one that's sinning.
Now go homeand keep having sex with your husband.
So what did you, aside from what?
What were you thinking?
What did you feel at that point?
(22:10):
Were you hopeless?
Well, the same thing. That nobody cared.
Nobody cared, including God.
Yeah, somebody.
Including God,
I mean, I eventually I found the lady,and she was a lady counselor.
And so she was helping me walk through,and she actually worked at the church.
(22:31):
Right.
And, so when they found outshe was helping me, they fired her.
Oh my gosh.
So during that and she, I mean,without her, I would've committed suicide.
I couldn't handle it anymore.
My family became angry at me for talking,sharing secrets.
So yeah, I couldn't handle it, so I was
(22:56):
that was in the back of my mind was, well,I'm just going to have to end my life.
I'm hurting. Everybody is hurting my kids.
It's me.
It has to be me.
So I remember being in my roomand I screamed, God, take me on this.
I can't do it.
And the first time you spoke to mesaid, I will not take you out of it,
(23:18):
but I will walk you through it. Wow.
And I heard itand it helped me to get through.
Wow. It's so sadwhen the church is so ignorant
about abuse some 30 years agoand give them a little bit of a pass
that's like 1995,maybe not that much, because it's
(23:38):
not like we didn't know anything,but it still happens today.
And, friend of mine has literally coined
that and, trademarked it as double abuse.
So it literally is a secondary abuse,which actually for you,
it was probably a quadrupleor abuse because you had been
(24:01):
told denied that it happened by your mom,
by your dad, by the police.
And then now that you were pressed it down
and now you were told by a pastorwhom you'd liked
that there was nothing thereexcept your own shame and said, you know.
(24:21):
And I never thought of it that way.
I never looked at itas a double abuse, but
so did it hurt in your lovely.
I didn't know what to do.
I honestly, I didn't know what to do.
And yeah, thankfully the lady
that I told you about she even though they
they warned her to not to help me,but she in her heart of hearts,
(24:46):
she couldn't just let me bebecause that's how devastated I was.
And so and that husband ended up.
He left.
He moved out.
He said if he didn't,he was going to hurt me.
Wow, and so he left,and we ended up losing the house.
And I had to move.
(25:08):
And, by then,my kids, my boys were teenagers.
So most of them, so then I, the two oneswere still younger, but so,
I moved in,
tried, you know, by that point,
I think I was trying tojust put everything away.
(25:28):
I couldn't know how to deal with itand went back to my old coping
skills and started dating somebody else.
Sure. Because what option did you have?
I mean, nowadays it's not likeyou couldn't have turned to alcohol
like your parents did, but.
Or did you?
Did you try that?
Didn't you tryso you weren't an alcoholic?
Your parents were alcoholics.
(25:48):
You didn't didn't try drinking.
I mean, nowadays young girls who feel thatmuch shame often cut themselves.
There's often, definitelyalways promiscuity because you don't know
that your body has boundariesand it's okay for you to say no.
And you think thatthat's how you get love.
But drugs, that's the only wayyou feel like you get love.
(26:09):
Because somebody is actually holyand touching you.
But yeah, really being used.
But yeah. Wow.
So then the next relationshipwas that a wonderful relationship
was fun. No.
So, okay, so I'm dating this guy,
find out I'm pregnant within three months.
(26:30):
I already can see he'snot nice to my kids.
My sons.
I wanted out,but I found out I was pregnant.
And, you know, after everything I'm goingthrough, I'm thinking, should I just try?
maybe I can make things betterfor this child.
And, I wanted a girl, you know, onceI accepted it, and I.
(26:51):
I even prayed, and I asked.
God, I just want a little girlwith brown hair and green eyes.
That was my prayer.
And, I started going back to church,
trying to fix all this,but in the meantime, he was.
This guy's a very abused, very, abusive,a very,
very disgusting, nasty,verbally, sexually.
(27:12):
Just.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Cause at least the other guy, it felt likethings were kind of okay, surfacely,
but this guy.
Was that to do all the disgusting stuff?
And was he abusive physicallywith your boys, too? Yes.
Okay. Let. Yes. With my boys.
At one point,he had that in me and broke my nose,
(27:35):
and, I, I was so out of it.
Went in the bathroom, like,kind of turning my head.
And there was just like.It was like a horror scene.
Blood splattered everywhere and in meinstead of, like, standing up for myself,
calling the police,I was more embarrassed that I let myself
get in this place again,and I didn't want my teenage boys to know.
(27:59):
Yeah, I like I told them
we were wrestling and I got hurt,but I think they knew.
I'm sure they knew every day before that
man came home from work,he would call me again to put me in jail.
I'm going to put me in jail.
He did that for like two weeksand I never, I didn't I sure,
sure yeah, I don'tI didn't what you had still never
(28:23):
they called that learned helplessness
is you don't you're not aware of the factthat you can help yourself
and that you should do anythingto help yourself.
And that comesas a result of all that abuse.
So, well, how did that relationship,how long did it continue,
and how did that one end?
I ended up having a baby girl.
With, witgh brown and green,green eyes and brown hair.
(28:44):
And God even told me that in churchand that,
like, not that long ago,I was talking to my daughter.
She is now 31.
And I was talking to her about it.
I've told her everything.
It's like God gave me a best friend.
I shared
everything with her about it, and,she said, mom,
God made the beginning to the end,because I was like,
(29:07):
why would he be so kind to meand give me you when I was in sin?
And that's what she told me,and I held on to that.
And, for our family,she's the cycle right there.
She she kept herself pure.
She married a man that works at church.
He's a worship leader.
She worships. And, God is good.
(29:29):
Yeah. Oh, wow.
It's so when you reflect on itfrom the outside,
the couple of times that you're sayingthat God very clearly spoke to you
the first time is, I'm going to I'mgoing to get you through it.
I'm not taking you out of it.
And then at a timewhen you were really hurting
and really lowand you asked him for something so
(29:51):
personal,can I please have a daughter this time?
And he let you know thatbecause you had eight boys prior to this,
at that point, I had.
Well, I had
five of my own boys. Six.
But I lost one, okay, five of my ownthat were living there.
And then there were, the other kidsfrom the other marriage, but
(30:13):
that would have made all togethernine kids.
Yeah. Okay.
So this was your first daughter,and that was my first daughter, yes.
Special blessing from the Lord.
So how did you get out of thisrelationship?
Well, I found out that shehe sexually abused her,
and I found out later that he had donethe same to his sister.
(30:34):
Is like the generational curses, Oh,my gosh.
You know, and, so I she was too young
to really articulate for court, but,we did go through a divorce.
They did give him monitored visitsat first.
Okay.
And, and that's how we we just gotdivorced, sold our house, and I moved.
(30:56):
I moved on, to a little small,little condo with me and my kids.
Okay.
And it was that the last bad relationship?
I mean, there was one more that was bad.
It wasn't traumatic. It was just wrong.
It was bad.
And it was after that relationship.
I mean, I did marry him.
It was very short, and I knew I had toget out because things were.
(31:23):
His childrenwere very cruel to my daughter.
And I'm like, no, I mean, no,
and Iand he wouldn't do anything to stop it.
So I did leave.
My boys came and moved me and,that was like, in that
that turning point of my life because,I stayed with Diane.
(31:43):
Like couple months, just while we aretransitioning to another place to live.
And I saw
one thing I saw, and I don't know why
it's made such a difference in in my lovefor God
is what I,I knew Diane as a very good friend,
and I moved in with her, and I saw her
(32:06):
as the same person she was on the outside.
And that meant so much to methat it's real.
she didn't pretend in front of people,and she was sweet and kind at home.
She was sweet and kind in public.
And that it impacted me somehow.
(32:26):
And there was once.
Oh. Did you said thatwe're talking about your turning point.
How you a turning point? Yeah. Yeah.
So that relationshipand you were with with Diane
and during this timeit was leaving this man, okay.
It was seeing my mother
and she had Alzheimer'sand she was at the end of her Alzheimer's.
(32:47):
Okay.
And I was seeing how how, bad things were.
I was working at Kaiserfor a friend of mine who was,
she was a childhood friend.
She was cruel to me, cruel,and would embarrass me.
And she was just mean.
But because of
my brokenness, I, just put up with it.
(33:09):
And so it was at the end of all that,
the Kaiser was prepping for Obamacare.
And so they terminated my position.
And it was like,I believe God had it set up.
And so I saw,what was happening with my mom.
I was at the point of, God,I just want more of you.
I want to be live my life obedient.
(33:31):
I want to figure this out and changeand kind of out of this trauma.
And so I just startedtaking care of my mom
and, I would look for work,wasn't finding work.
I just took care of my mom, which was
difficult, difficult.
So at any time during this whole timewe've been talking, did you cut off
(33:53):
relationships with your parentsor with your brother?
With my dad.
There was five years that I did,but nobody cared.
So I went back and started seeing my mombecause I just still wanted to see my mom.
Nobody cared.
Yeah, nobody caredif you were there or not, right?
No doesn’t matter. You know? Nobody.
(34:14):
Bobbie cut us off.That was like, no problem.
they were more like that, so,So I wanted to see my mom.
So I just started going back,and nothing changed.
Nothing.
So, with my brother that I didn't
cut him offtill I was taking care of my dad.
So. But, so you took care of your mom
(34:35):
with Alzheimer's in your own homeduring the day, or did you go back?
And I would go.I would go to her house because
my dad was still drinking.
So he'd be in the garage all the time.
And my poor mom, like, I would call herlike, mom, what are you doing?
I'm making tortillasor I'm cleaning the carpet.
(34:56):
And then I would go over thereand I'm like,
there is no way she could have been.
That's how I started seeingwhat was really going on
with her and all her, like her medication.
She had it in and it was bad.
So I just talked to my dad and I said,I think someone needs to take care of mom.
And he agreed.
(35:16):
You know, soI just came in daily and took care of her.
And it was, someone with Alzheimer's.
It's hard to have lots of storiesand lots of, anger.
And, it was difficult.
She was like childlikeAnd so sometimes I would just,
like, lay next to her and hold her
and try to love her and give herthe love that she didn't have.
(35:40):
And, she had a long strugglewith doing that, like,
with your I mean, what was going oninside of you, like, I'm going to do that.
Did you do itbecause your heart actually wanted to?
My heart wanted my heart. Really?
You were so loving and forgivingthat you were willing to do that.
Well, yeah, my heart definitely want.
And yeah, I can.
That's the one thing I remember
(36:01):
because I was like, God,she never gave me any gifts.
But the one thing I can remember about meis when I was young,
I would have so much compassion for my dadwhen people were mean,
like kids, like callingfatso and I would stand up for him and,
and even there was one timesomebody was going to beat up
(36:21):
John and I just couldn'tI couldn't handle that.
Like, for somebody to feel likeit was just something, I guess, in me.
But when it came to my mom no, I,
I, I wanted to take care of her.
It was difficult.
She yelled at me, yeah,yeah, and slap my face a lot of times.
(36:42):
she was difficult, but
in the end, I knew what I believedwas an assignment from God.
Yeah.
Like you want to be obedient.
Well, you go and so it was okay.
And then you took care of your dadafter that,
when your dad declined and was starting to
near the end of his life.
And that one was hard for you.
(37:04):
You said. Yeah.
So by that point, my dad had asked meto move in right after my mom passed.
So I moved in, it was June first, 2014.
And it was me and my daughter,and we moved in
and my dad was still like thatcontrolling guy, but he did quit drinking.
(37:25):
So thankfully for that, he quit drinking.
And, he, he had mejust do all kinds of projects,
paint his house and fix this and do that.
I was like the handyman for him.
And, the only thing that was okaywith it is I learned a lot, which
I like to do those kind of things, andit was my only way to even bond with him.
(37:47):
So, and my oldest brother would get so mad
at me and he’d tell me, get on there,put him in the home, still the same.
And I would tell himI really believe this is what God wants.
So I have to be obedient.
And, and then of course, towards the endhe started,
calming down and,being a little bit nicer.
(38:08):
And I know that, like in the last monthsof his life, where he would go
in and out of consciousness,one day he woke up and he said,
I want to thank you for being so kindto me, never being mean to me.
And I think that wasmaybe his way of apologizing.
I don't know,and you never, never confronted him.
(38:29):
You never said anythinglike I was too scared of him.
Yes, I know I never did so,but I was just.
I just treated him with as much love.
Even though there were times I get madand I'd want to leave.
And God was. Show me.
No, this is what I want you.
So I just, I mean, all always kiss himgoodnight.
(38:50):
I would always, I loved him, cookedwhatever he wanted,
did whatever he asked to me, it was,
I don't know which is more for God,I think, I know, like, on May 4th,
the year he passed, I was
putting on my makeup in the bathroom rightnext to his room, and I heard him come.
(39:11):
He was in that, like,he would go in that kind of comatose state
and, Well, and I heard him going,
Lord, Lord, forgive me for my sins.
And he was just crying out.
And immediatelyI just knew this is the why.
And I'm glad I was obedient for his.
So I did you talk to him about the Lord.
(39:32):
I mean, yeah, thank him.
Okay, so you were actually talking to himabout his soul
and recognizing he was going to die.
And so he from thathe actually accepted the Lord.
What? That is really powerful.
That is unbelievable.
There was even times
like prior, like he would say, you know,would you read me the Bible?
So I would just sit and read himthe Bible
(39:54):
and I would just ask,what do you want me to read?
Yeah.
so yeah.
So once that happened, I knew.
And I just know,no matter how hard things are,
that is what it's all aboutis bringing souls to Christ.
That's what matters is eternity.
Now, I
want to just say to people listening,it's like, this is a choice
(40:18):
of whether you want to carefor your abuser
and, at the end of their life,
many people choose to do itbecause they feel
that that is healing to themand they're being obedient to the Lord.
But especiallyif the abuse was still continuing
(40:38):
and he was still screaming at youand calling you names and hitting
you and saying horrible, sexually
degrading comments to you,
I don't I don't think God, in that casewould want you
to have gone through the rest of that,to go through that again.
So I just want to say to peoplethat are listening that this is a choice
(41:02):
that you get to make, you get to assessis this is this okay for me?
Is this good for me?
Is this going to be, too much for me?
Because that kind of stuff can makeyou mentally sick.
It can make you physically sickand emotionally sick.
So it's not a have to, but it can be
a healing choice as it was for you.
(41:23):
And, that's it's funnyyou say that because that was
what I wanted to leave everybody with
is that this was my assignment,and I knew it was my assignment.
And I would never, never, never,say that somebody else
should do the same thing, right?
Because this is just what I knewin my heart and what God wanted for me.
(41:47):
And I know for many people, be too much
it was because you did saythat there were you'd walk into a room
and it would bring upa really vivid memory of something
that had happened with the abuseand that that was happening a lot.
And what would you do with that memorywhen it came up to you?
Would you just turn it over to the Lord,or were you seeing a therapist
(42:08):
during this time?
I was not seeing a therapistduring this time,
but this is what kind of helped mewrite the book.
Okay, well, because,
each room held a memorybecause they lived in that house 50 years.
Yes, that's where I was raised.
So, it just helped me
kind of process, I think, like,it was hard.
(42:31):
And that part was really hardbecause I was right there in that place.
It took place with my dad.
So I wouldI would journal, I would write it down.
And that's, again,what helped with the book,
and it made the memoryso very real and clear.
Yeah.
And so I would just process I would cry,
(42:52):
I would fail, and, I would move on,
I would just do what I needed to do.
And you didn't you weren't.Were you talking to a friend?
Were you talking to. Yes, daughter.
Yes, I yes, I had, I had, a really goodfriend at that time that I would talk to
and then my daughter, my daughter,like I said, she has been my best friend.
(43:14):
And we as we, while we were doing this,we would laugh.
And you, we have fundespite like my dad would tell me
to paint and he'd come out with his walkerand his flashlight,
magnifying glassjust as someone walking still.
Amen.
Who would I would have to laugh,otherwise I would have gone crazy.
He’d come out with
(43:35):
a magnifying glassto see if you were doing it well enough.
And that's what he had,because he couldn't see that well.
Oh he couldn’t see very well.
So, he would be pushing his walk.
And so we would just laugh at itinstead of get upset.
Yeah.
You have to almost.
It's it's so crazy.
And so your healing well,I have to say one more thing.
(43:56):
The big part of your story that goes alongwith this whole theme of discounting
you and gaslighting and the double abuseor quadruple abuse or whatever
it is, when you say eight and ten and nineand ten times abused by other people.
You said during that first marriage, wasit the one you married when you were 16,
(44:17):
the father of your first couple of kids,
that his mother was the mayor?
Was that the one his mom was the mayor?
And when...
Yes, she was the mayor.
So when you play a mother grandmother.
So when you reported itor went to the police,
he would get arrested,but they would let that he'd get let off.
Oh, she would get him out all the time,to get him out all the time.
(44:40):
All the time.
Yeah. And. Yeah. Yeah.
So that was very frustrating.
Oh, totally.
So there again,another person who's not held to account
and just sent back to go ahead,keep abusing her, keep doing it more.
Nobody his motherhis grandmother didn't step in
and say I'll get you out of jail,but don't you touch that.
(45:03):
Oh no, no, no.
And his mother at that time, and she was ait was his adopted
mother that, she did not likeme because I found out later
they were having a sexual relationship.
No, No. And yes, I no so.
And there would be timesI would be there that he I'd end up like
(45:24):
with them, bloody face or whatever.
And she would just stop crying.
There's no reason to cry, shut up and,I found out later that yeah,
that was going on because she didn'tlike the fact that he was with you.
Things like a possessive.
Yes. She didn't care if the.
No, Maybe she encouraged it.
Who knows? You may have she may have.
(45:45):
And then, once I had kids, she would
she was trying to sayshe was going to take my kids if I.
So they always held that over my head.
And she had a lot of money
and she had a lot of clout with her motherbeing the mayor.
So I was always afraid of that, that,yeah,
they could take my kidsso I would do what they wanted me to do.
(46:06):
So sometimes I, I doubt I,but I don't really doubt.
But I think I'm not quick to say,oh, this is a spiritual thing.
It's because of this.
But in, in this case in your life,
I mean, telling you as far as spiritual
warfare and spiritual sexual
sins passed downfrom one person to the other,
(46:28):
you even found a man, unbeknownst to you,
that was having
an incestual relationshipwith his mother. Yes.
And do you ever gofind out when that started?
It started when he was, 14. He.
And she admitted it to me.
Okay.
When I confronted her,she admitted it to me.
(46:50):
And he was 14.
He was in a motorcycle accident.
He was in a body cast.
So she started having to bathe him.
So that's when it happened.
And she said it was
because her husband was an alcoholicand so he could not perform.
And so that was her excuse.
I expected her to deny everything,but I got an earful. Wow.
(47:11):
Yeah.
Okay, so the healing now, normally todaywhen we talk about healing
from all this traumatic abusein every category,
we talk about trauma therapy and, eMDRand all the different things
that you can do to helpget rid of the complex PTSD that you would
have in your body and in your memoriesand in your subconscious and unconscious.
(47:35):
Have you done any of that?
I mean, I've never done any kind ofwhat they call, trauma therapy.
I've done therapy, like pretty much,
you know, since my 30sand on, I've done some kind of therapy.
I was diagnosed with, PTSD, of course.
Yeah. And I know a lot of thingsstill trigger me.
(47:57):
It's still trigger me.
And I believe it's just going to bean ongoing healing process
until the day I die,because it's layer upon, layer upon layer.
Totally.
And so, and and, like I not dated
since the last person I was with,and that was 2013 and, I'm okay with that.
(48:20):
I, I'm good where I'm at.
God would have to saythis is who I want you with, but honestly,
I would just rather serve himhowever that looks, in a way of, helping
somebody else who's been in, in my shoesnow, you know what I mean?
That's my heart.
That's where I would rather do so. Okay.
(48:43):
How were your kids affected. My kids?
Oh, definitely.
The three oldest ones, were affectedthe most.
They struggled a lot throughout their lifewith anger, with, substance abuse.
But now, praise God,
the three of my oldest kids are doingand doing well.
(49:04):
They're, They are they're doing well.
And they all have a belief, in in God
and doing their best to walk out that.
Okay, one of them went to therapy,the other two don't want to.
And that's, that up to them.
That's your choice.
Then I have then the next son down from
(49:25):
the other marriage.
He's fine. He's doing good.
Then my, Well,the youngest one is doing fine.
My number four son will not speak to me.
Oh, yeah?
What is the reason?
He's an alcoholic.
He says that because, My daughter's
dad was very abusive to them.
RememberI told you he was abusive to my kids.
(49:48):
And, he pretty much just won't talk to mebecause of that.
Okay.
And, and so he blames you for me?
Tommy wishesI was dead at one time, but I just.
I had to cut ties with himbecause he is very hurtful.
Yeah, and I understand his anger.
I do, and I would love to sitand talk to him if he doesn't want that.
(50:10):
So I can pray from afar.
It took a lot, you know.
It took a lot to get through. That hurt.
Oh, yeah.
Just more hurt, more kind of trauma.
But my kids have been very supportiveto me.
The other ones.
And so, they're the ones who enforce me.
Just, to let him be,you've got to figure it out, right?
(50:30):
Right. Yeah. So that is hurtful.
Really hard.
But, yeah, you do have to take careof yourself and make sure that you're
not being further abused,
because our kids can be upsetabout the things that happened to them,
and they can tell us, andwe need to listen and be very empathetic.
But we don't need to be abusedin the process
(50:53):
because they're adultsand they've just like you handled
your childhood as an adultand didn't go back and abuse your parents.
You could be that.
You could have told them.
You could have told it, confrontedeach and every person
that you needed to confront you.
You were entitled to thatif you wanted to, but
(51:14):
not to where he's abusingyou and hurting you.
So I'm glad that you are at peacewith that.
Did you feel responsible?
I mean, he obviously he's blaming you.
I know you said in the book that you did.
You felt guilty for what you hadput your kids through,
which is pretty normal,especially for us as women.
We are just we feel like we we'rethe ones that are what we did, allow it.
(51:37):
We did the best we could.
That's part of how you have to heal,as you have to understand
and give yourself compassion.
You were in thatbecause of your childhood.
You didn't know any better.You didn't have a way out.
You were doing what you thoughtyou had to do and you were a victim.
And, how did you come to terms with that?
(51:58):
It was hard.
And I still, of struggle.
If I see them struggling, I struggle.
of course I felt guilty.
I felt shame,because I love my kids so much.
And, we want the best.
We want the better for them.
But, it just took a lot of praying and,and even forgiving myself,
which was the hardest thingout of everything, was it?
Forgive me. Isn't that amazing?
(52:20):
How could it be harderfor you to forgive yourself?
I know it is.
It's been the hardest for meto forgive myself, for allowing my kids
to have been hurt.
It's it's been really difficult.
And yet.
We really were trying.
I know I was trying really hard, and, yes,I made a lot of mistakes, but a lot
(52:43):
because of how I was raised,and the environment that I was in.
But, it'sjust the hardest to forgive yourself.
How did you finally do it
again?
It is a lot of prayer and unders.
The one thing I really understood was that
if God could forgive me,
who am I to hold that back on myself?
(53:04):
He's God, the creator of the universe,
so that that'sthe one thing that helped me.
And then also see the love that my kidshave for me and the other people.
That's really, really a blessing.
It honestly is.
And you know what?
One thing too
one big thing is that the
(53:26):
the next assignmentthat God had for me is that,
although my son, my my second son,
he owns a house and it's a big house
and, he asked me to moveinto the front part of the house.
So in doing so,
God has allowed, like, redemption,to be able to love that
(53:49):
even though they're from,they're all single and they're all grown.
But God has allowed me to give thema lot of the love that they needed.
And I have seen since I've been here
and I know it's not me, it's God using me.
A tremendous differencein all three of them.
And so, I'm I'm blessed by that.
(54:12):
Yeah.
I'm blessed to see what God is, is doing.
And I'm just waiting to seewhat he's going to do next.
Yeah, that'sthat's really like a big blessing,
that you could actually see thatthere's been a change in your kid's life.
So wonderful.
I can't wait till your grandmaand you get to love on those babies,
which is like,oh my goodness, I'm a grandma.
(54:34):
A grandma.
You said my grandma eight times.
Oh, eight times.
You said they're all still single.
So I just made that leap into, no cutekids.
A lot of them.
The grandkids are from,
prior relationshipsand because of their brokenness and stuff.
So there and then my daughter is the onethat's married to the worship leader.
They have, she's almost ten months now,
(54:57):
and she's the little joy of my life. And.
Yeah, so you can just give theunconditional grandma love and hug them.
And that that in itselfis really healing, too.
So yeah, it is, it is.
So I expect because you're still young,you got lots of years left
(55:18):
and a lot of healing and compassion.
I expect God to do something in your lifeto use this for you to reach out
and heal others, even maybe beyondjust sharing your story on podcast.
Because it's just that
the healing that you've had is phenomenal.
(55:39):
And, just. Yeah.
So what thoughts would you like to leave
with the people who are listening?
Well, you stole my thought.
Darn. Sorry.
That was my thought was, to make sure
that if you're ever goingto take care of your parents, you know,
you know that you know that, you know,don't don't just do it out of emotion.
(56:03):
But and the other thing is, is healing.
Healing is available.
And I think, honestly, looking at my
the journey, it was
it was even though it's not us doing it,but it's us surrendering.
because I feel like God pursued me
and that's why I would,why did you love me so much?
(56:26):
He pursued me.
And when I finally surrendered.
Amazing things have happened in my.
What did that mean? What does that meanwhen you surrender? Tell me.
Like what you did, what you said,what your heart was, what was.
What was that thing?
Was it just a moment where you just saidI just what was it?
It started as a moment.
(56:46):
It started as a moment to just say,you know what? God,
I love you so much,
and I want to live my life to honoryou and be obedient to you.
I want to surrenderevery area of me to you.
I don't know what that looks like rightnow, but that's that's what I'm thinking.
That what I want, that is my desire.
(57:09):
And I just in my prayer time,I just continued and I continue
to lay things down.
whatever it isyou want, I what I want to do,
I want to do whatever you want me to do.
And that's where the change has occurred.
Yeah. HowI wish I would have known that years ago.
I didn't, but,and now I feel a little prompting
(57:31):
in the area of.
Maybe kind of deliverance in a sense,
because I know I believe that
this was a generational curseand that demonic curse.
Because how couldthis have just kept happening?
it's I definitely was in your family,
(57:52):
but for itto even be in the families of men
that you were attractedto, multiple times, not just one,
but it is one that every one of them.
Oh, my gosh, that that is. Yeah.
So how do I can talk to you about that.
Well, I just want to thank everyonefor listening.
(58:15):
I, I was again riveted to her as she wastalking, like I was reading the book.
But it's just an amazing story of healing,
not only in herself, but in her family.
And, I just want tothank you for watching.
Thank you for listening.
And, just if you knowsomebody that needs to hear this,
that needs to know thathealing is available and that God cares,
(58:38):
even though they've endured all of thosepainful, horrendous experiences.
Please pass this on and I hopethat you will join us next time.
Thank you Bobbie, so much for being here.
It is a pleasure.Thank you. God bless you.
Thank you.
Thank you for listeningto Change My Relationship.
We hope you will subscribe to thesepodcasts and share them with your friends.
(59:01):
Karla would love to hear from you.
She welcomes ideas for a future podcast,as well as your feedback
on how the podcasts have helped your lifeand relationships.
You can email her at.
karla@changemyrelationship.com
For more informationon Change My Relationship and Karla
Downing's ministry, including her books,studies, devotionals, podcasts
(59:24):
and YouTube videosvisit changemyrelationship.com.
You're listening to a podcast by ChangeMy Relationship, featuring
licensed marriage and family therapistand author Karla Downing.
These podcast are designed to provide youwith practical solutions
based on biblical truthsfor all your relationships.
Today, Karla will be interviewing a guestwho has experienced
a relationship problemand successfully worked through it.
(00:32):
welcome to Change My Relationship podcast.
I have with me todaya woman who has experienced
horrendous childhoodand adult relationship abuse.
I'm not bringing that to youso that you can be
retraumatizedif you've been in an abusive relationship.
We're bringing that to youbecause we really want to focus on
(00:52):
the healing that is possible.
And, we want you to be able
to identify with the fact thatthat through the Lord and through help,
that you can be healed of even the impact
of extreme trauma from abuse.
Because I have to say,she she's written a biography
(01:13):
and, it's called There Once Was a Girland I have to say, a mutual friend
that introduced her to me, said, Iread her book and I couldn't put it down.
And I thought, well, I'mgoing to skim her book.
Well, I started at about 10:00 at night.
And do you know that I was likestanding up when I started reading it,
and I literally stood the entire timeI was reading it, did not put it down.
(01:38):
And when I finished, I realized thatmy body was just tight as I was listening.
As I was reading it,because, it was just,
I mean, horrendous,what you've gone through.
But again, we're bringing her to you
to help you see that hope is possibleand healing is possible.
So welcome, Bobbie Tea Thank you.
(02:01):
Karla. It's nice to be here.
Nice to meet you. You too.
So the book is called ThereOnce Was a Girl, a memoir with a message.
So we're going to start right off with
what was your early childhood like?
Well, okay.
So my dad, he was an angry,
(02:22):
alcoholic, very angry all the time.
I don't remember him being happy,not even when he was drinking.
Unless we had company.
And my mom was. She was more meek.
She was alcoholic.
I did not know that my whole entire life.
I didn't know that.
She was, like, more of a closet.
and my sister, even I remember my sistertelling me mom's alcoholic.
(02:45):
And I'm like, no, she's not.
I couldn't believe it.
But, in my early adulthood,I found out, yes, she was,
so, I mean, and so childhood was,
no happy memories.
It was just always trying to,
you know, stay away from my dad,you know, as much as I could,
(03:08):
when he was angry, my oldest brother,he was very, very distant.
He was,
in, Ithink, like, eight years older than me.
And then the next one downis another brother who was kind of like
dad's favorite.
Never got in trouble.
I couldn't understand my dad liked him,but didn't like anybody else.
(03:29):
Well, didn't like me or my oldest brotherand then I had a younger sister,
my baby sister who my mom coddled and,
my dad didn't seem to get angrywith them, with her.
So I used to think as a child
because my dad was overweight, man.
And growing up, my oldest brother and me,I was tiny.
(03:51):
Then, and then my, the next brother down.
And my sister, they were overweight too.
So in my mind I thought, well, that'swhy he likes them and doesn't like us.
That was theonly way I can make any sense out of it.
So you talked about
the fact that the abuse startedat a very young age,
and we're talking about sexual abuse.
(04:12):
Sexual molestation.
Right.
Were you four or was it younger even?
I was to two.
And I'm surprised that I have that memory.
But I have that memorypretty much solidified in my brain.
Yes, I was two and I believe
from what I can figure out,my mom was in the hospital.
(04:33):
I mean, my sister and I just rememberit was in the evening with my dad
and it was with your dad,and that's when it started.
Okay.
And then did it just continuelike fairly regularly with your dad?
Till how old?
With my dad,I think it was more, kind of random.
I guess that's the only way I could say,until I was 13 with my dad,
(04:55):
kind of off and on, but,
like my brother,not my oldest, but the second brother.
He joined in when I was four,and that continued with him.
That was all the time with him.
Any chance he could get in?
Always in the middle of the night.
Until I was 13.
And then I had an uncle. I had a cousin.
(05:16):
It just it's kind of like, I don't know,
I feel like it's a demonic thing as well.
It, it,I mean, when you when you read the book,
it really feels like thatbecause it was so pervasive.
And I think you said at one timethat your aunt, you told your aunt
or somehow your aunt found outand you was this one who.
(05:37):
Then she kept him away.
But then you found out laterit actually happened in his.
He did it to his own childrenor stepchildren too that.
That was, that was later on.
And that was a husband.
That was a husband.
Wow, yeah. So yeah.
So there's justand you know, it is true that incest
and sexual abusedoes continue in families.
(06:00):
It is something just like alcoholism
that tends to pass downgenerally generationally.
Do you think your mom knewwhat was happening?
I know my mom knewbecause there was one incident
that I remember very wellthat it was a Saturday morning and I was,
it was a weekend.
I just know it was a weekendbecause I was in their room.
(06:23):
My mom wasn't in the room.
Things were happening with my dad.
My mom walked in, look to give us botha dirty look and slammed the door.
And so, my little mind,
it's just like, oh, mom's mad.
But apparently this is okay.
But I wasn't okay with it. I wasn't.
(06:44):
The only thing I was okay
with was getting the attentionthat I didn't normally get.
But, from then on, I always knew
my mom didn't like me, butI didn't know why my mom didn't like me.
But it never deterred me from loving herand wanting a relationship with her,
you know? So you still had that desire?
(07:05):
Oh, were you torn betweenpleasing your mom
and then by not doingthose things, are allowing your dad
to do those things orand then trying to please your dad?
Or was it just sort of a thingthat you accepted that
this is what I need to do?
I just accepted it as normalbecause I think
(07:26):
because it started when I was so young,and then it continued
like the incident with my unclewhen I was four.
I did go tell my momI was so uncomfortable and my mom was.
My mom always would get franticand she started screaming and saying,
tell your dad what he did. Tell your dad.
And I rememberI was so scared to tell my dad.
And I looked up at himand he gave me that look.
(07:48):
He does not say anything about him,so he did it.
And police were called.
And my aunt was sayinghe would never do that.
He would never do that.
And it was all determined.
I was a liar. Wow.
So I knew best to never say a word again.
So the police actually said
(08:09):
that you were or decidedthat you were lying?
Yeah.
Based on what the uncle was saying,the aunt was saying
and what I could articulateat four years old.
So, and that.
But I know laterI call my mom talking to one of my aunts,
other aunts, and she was saying,I just overheard this.
(08:32):
My mom never had a conversation with me.
She just said, oh, they want Bobbieto go to court because they found out
he was molesting all her daughtersand she had five daughters.
Wow. Okay. My goodness. I
just even in the words that you just used,you said
when your dad looked at you,but the police were there.
(08:54):
He looked at you and.
No, your mom, you said.
Your mom said we're going to have totell your dad what you did.
Those kinds of
wording, that kind of wording,
saying what you didlike you did something wrong
when you were four years oldand it was a grown man who was doing this.
(09:18):
It had nothing to do with what you did.
It was what he did.
But that's what happenswhen the family system is so dysfunctional
that you get the blame for something
that you had absolutely no control over.
Yeah.
It's just so toxic.
And and you remember feeling like
(09:40):
nobody believes me.
Did you did you doubt yourselfthat even at that early age?
No. You knew that
I knew, I just knew I couldn't tell,I just knew, I couldn't tell.
Wow. Yeah. Oh, okay.
So we know that childhood abuse
sets you up, like,when people are violating
(10:00):
your body boundariesand doing those things to you.
We know you carry the shame.
even if it feels normal.
There's something, like you said insidethat didn't feel right about it.
And So that sets you up for later abuse.
So tell me about your firstor your first major
(10:22):
relationship in high school.
Okay, so I was 15.
I met a guy. He was 24.
Nobody seemed to care.
Yeah, that I was 15, that he was 24.
And, starting off the first year,he wasn't abusive,
but he was verbally abusive,like, put me down and that kind of stuff.
(10:45):
And, I would always go back to,he paid attention to me.
He had that kind of charming personality.
And I found myself pregnant at 16.
The day I found out I was pregnant,I told my mom.
She told me I had to go home with him.
And that was the first dayof getting physically abused.
(11:07):
I was making.
He told me to make him scrambled eggs.
Apparently I didn't do it right,so he hit me in the face.
It knocked me down, told me to get upand do it his way, which I did.
And that was the very beginning.
Of eight years with him.
That was.
It was horrendous.
And were you in his family homeor when did you go, like to his apartment?
(11:31):
To his apartment? Yes.
Yeah. So he's 24.
Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. So did you get married to him?
I didn't I didn't get married.
I just, I stayed with him, I ran, ran,
I hid from him, I but he justhe followed me.
He stopped me.
(11:52):
And my family didn't protect me.
And my dad would get mad at me and tell me
I had to leave there, Soit was a kind of a back and forth thing.
And I ended up having four kids from him.
But, my second set withthey were twins and one of the twins died.
Yeah. And, and then I had, another son.
(12:14):
So there were three,three boys by him, four, essentially.
But one died. Okay.
So that whole relationship for eight yearswas physically
abusive, was probably sexually abusive,
just all kinds of physical abuse,verbal, emotional abuse.
Did you try to leave?
Did you? Yes.
(12:36):
I left one time for a year,went out of state.
But I was so broken,so messed up and ended up coming back.
And he found me, and, I
that's when I ended up pregnantwith the third child.
Because when he did, because I was hidingand I wanted to see my mom so bad.
So I went to visitmy mom without the other kids.
(12:57):
And how he knew I don't know.
He was standing there
when I came out of her houseand I just thought, oh my goodness.
And yeah, so I
yeah, it was police being called.
It was for eight years. It was horrendous.
And those three boys of mine,
(13:18):
you know, they they struggled too.
They saw their mom, you know, Bambi and
the fighting and it was chaos.
It was, you know, there was one timeI had to hide at a motel and finally
the police let me back and and theywhen they when we did go in, they,
(13:43):
you know, had guns pulled and found himshooting up cocaine and took him to jail.
And he again,he always told me he was going to kill me.
And I believe that had I stayed,he would have killed me and the kids.
And so that's how he kept control of me.
Yeah, absolutely.
That is a threat that,you are actually terrified over.
(14:05):
Did your dad physically beat you? Yes.
And your mom?
No. My mom would slap my face a lot,
and I didn't.
Their dad was not physically abusivewith you.
Yes. My him.
No, no, he wasn't with my mom.
He was mean to her. He was.
He was disrespectful.
He had girlfriends.
(14:27):
He was a pervert.
We we caught himnumerous times up on the roof
with binoculars,staring at the neighbor woman.
Well, and
when he would drive with us little girls,
he would be gawking at womensaying things to women.
It was. Yeah, it was.
(14:50):
It was a disgusting childthat I wish was different.
Yeah, definitely.
So your acceptanceof not only the sexual abuse,
but physical abuse and allthat was just programed in you as a child.
And how did you actually get out of thateight year relationship?
By dating another man,
(15:11):
by moving in with another man was.
And he still stalked me there.
And I ended up getting pregnantby this other man.
And that's when he left me alone.
He told me,he kept telling me, call on me.
You need to get an abortion.
You need to get an abortion.
You're our boys can't have,half siblings or whatever.
(15:35):
So it was in, it was maybe a little overeight years ago.
You actually had the, like,when you were with him,
you actually started dating somebody else.
He was in.
He was actually in jail.
Okay, so that was when you did that.
Yeah, yeah.
And otherwise I couldn'thave gotten away with that.
(15:56):
Yeah, he was in jail.
And, Yeah.
So that when that startedand then I moved in with this other man
and like I said, it was he left me alonewhen I wouldn't have an abortion.
Okay.
That wasa miracle because usually that makes them
very angry out of jealousy.
(16:18):
So yeah.
So what did that relationshipturn out to be like?
I would say on the surface
it seemed like it was a good relationship.
He had three kids, I had three.
We ended up having two more together.
So that was eight kids.
(16:38):
Eight? Yeah. I was your health.
Well, when I started that relationship,I was 23.
Okay.
24, I got pregnant at 24.
But it was more,he was passive aggressive.
So, it was more like I knew the look, likeI just had to make sure
everything was taken care of,the house was taken care.
(17:00):
The kids were taken care of because.
And essentially, in the very beginning,he did kick me out.
Okay?
With my kids and we I found an apartmentbecause my dad's like,
you're not coming back here.
So, Then I ended up going back with himfor a ten years.
It seemed okay. It seemed good.
Like on the surface, I just at that point,I shoved everything down.
(17:24):
I'm sure I am trying to take care of eightkids.
Yeah.
So to me,that was the happiest I'd ever been.
Me and the kids, me and the husband,it was very surface.
It was not a close bond or anything,but me and the kids, that was fun.
We went to church, Bible studies,all that kind of stuff. So.
(17:46):
So as long as I did
what I was supposed to do, it was okay.
Okay.
And the one you.
When were you, introduced to the Lord?
Actually, I was
introduced to you, when I was like,
it was before that relationship,and I did.
I went to a conference,and I did accept him.
(18:10):
You know, I just think because of my brokenness
and because of not having somebodywalking alongside to mentor me and help me
because I was so broken.
But I honestly believe, in spiteof all that, he had his hand on me.
He did? Yeah, he did.
So I would think I was a Christian,because I had that belief.
(18:34):
But I wasn't walking, surrendered to him.
Yeah, but there was no introduction ofchurch or God or Jesus as a child to you.
Yes, there was, but there was,there were in the Catholic religion.
Catholic. Well, I can remember
wondering.
Okay, we go to churchand we pretend like this
(18:56):
and we come home and here is this.
So and God is well, in the Catholicreligion it was more God was mean.
And you had to do,
or you had to go to confessionthat for for me, that's how I took it.
So but it was just kind of confusing,you know, here's this.
God, he'ssupposed to protect you and love you.
(19:17):
But yet when I came home, this was goingon, and it was like with my brother,
it was almost every night,being molested by him.
Wow. That's horrible.
Okay, so then this relationship,how did this
relationship go bad?
Okay, so I was 30,
(19:37):
and, I was at a Bible study,
and at the end of the Bible study,
whoever was praying, I don't even recall.
But all of a sudden, it was likethis whole entire realization that
my brother molested me for eight yearsas if it was new information to me.
And I was devastated.
(19:58):
If you had pressed it down to the pointthat you didn't even know it, no I didn't.
It was like it was new informationand it was devastated.
But prior to that,I was having panic attacks
and this morning, weird nightmares.
I was feeling like I couldn't function.
(20:19):
And then that that happened
and I know, I went to knowand tried to explain it to my husband.
He was like, okay.
It was not a big deal to them,but to me it was humongous
because then all the piecesstarted coming up with my dad
and, you know, the memory remembering,you know, the eight years with John and
(20:42):
and all the trauma I had gone through.
So you began through all of that,
came back to you, and then you're havingtrouble functioning.
Did you go get help like therapy, helpor anything?
Yeah.
My first step was I went to the churchI was going to,
and I went to a particular pastorthat I liked,
(21:04):
and I was telling him what was going on.
And he actually reached across his
desk, pointed his finger at me,said, you are a sinner.
You go back and get in bedwith your husband, put it in Jesus.
And I'm like, I'm trying to
I don't know what that meansor what that looks like.
And so so this was, not not in the Catholic religion.
(21:29):
This is a like a evangelical church.
And this wouldhave been how many years ago?
Well, about 30.
So it's about 30 years ago.
Yeah, 30 or 30 years ago.
And that pastor dismissedevery single thing you told him.
(21:49):
Oh, yeah.
And told you that just like you had beentold your entire life that it's.
You're the one that's to feel ashamed.
You're the one that's sinning.
Now go homeand keep having sex with your husband.
So what did you, aside from what?
What were you thinking?
What did you feel at that point?
(22:10):
Were you hopeless?
Well, the same thing. That nobody cared.
Nobody cared, including God.
Yeah, somebody.
Including God,
I mean, I eventually I found the lady,and she was a lady counselor.
And so she was helping me walk through,and she actually worked at the church.
(22:31):
Right.
And, so when they found outshe was helping me, they fired her.
Oh my gosh.
So during that and she, I mean,without her, I would've committed suicide.
I couldn't handle it anymore.
My family became angry at me for talking,sharing secrets.
So yeah, I couldn't handle it, so I was
(22:56):
that was in the back of my mind was, well,I'm just going to have to end my life.
I'm hurting. Everybody is hurting my kids.
It's me.
It has to be me.
So I remember being in my roomand I screamed, God, take me on this.
I can't do it.
And the first time you spoke to mesaid, I will not take you out of it,
(23:18):
but I will walk you through it. Wow.
And I heard itand it helped me to get through.
Wow. It's so sadwhen the church is so ignorant
about abuse some 30 years agoand give them a little bit of a pass
that's like 1995,maybe not that much, because it's
(23:38):
not like we didn't know anything,but it still happens today.
And, friend of mine has literally coined
that and, trademarked it as double abuse.
So it literally is a secondary abuse,which actually for you,
it was probably a quadrupleor abuse because you had been
(24:01):
told denied that it happened by your mom,
by your dad, by the police.
And then now that you were pressed it down
and now you were told by a pastorwhom you'd liked
that there was nothing thereexcept your own shame and said, you know.
(24:21):
And I never thought of it that way.
I never looked at itas a double abuse, but
so did it hurt in your lovely.
I didn't know what to do.
I honestly, I didn't know what to do.
And yeah, thankfully the lady
that I told you about she even though they
they warned her to not to help me,but she in her heart of hearts,
(24:46):
she couldn't just let me bebecause that's how devastated I was.
And so and that husband ended up.
He left.
He moved out.
He said if he didn't,he was going to hurt me.
Wow, and so he left,and we ended up losing the house.
And I had to move.
(25:08):
And, by then,my kids, my boys were teenagers.
So most of them, so then I, the two oneswere still younger, but so,
I moved in,
tried, you know, by that point,
I think I was trying tojust put everything away.
(25:28):
I couldn't know how to deal with itand went back to my old coping
skills and started dating somebody else.
Sure. Because what option did you have?
I mean, nowadays it's not likeyou couldn't have turned to alcohol
like your parents did, but.
Or did you?
Did you try that?
Didn't you tryso you weren't an alcoholic?
Your parents were alcoholics.
(25:48):
You didn't didn't try drinking.
I mean, nowadays young girls who feel thatmuch shame often cut themselves.
There's often, definitelyalways promiscuity because you don't know
that your body has boundariesand it's okay for you to say no.
And you think thatthat's how you get love.
But drugs, that's the only wayyou feel like you get love.
(26:09):
Because somebody is actually holyand touching you.
But yeah, really being used.
But yeah. Wow.
So then the next relationshipwas that a wonderful relationship
was fun. No.
So, okay, so I'm dating this guy,
find out I'm pregnant within three months.
(26:30):
I already can see he'snot nice to my kids.
My sons.
I wanted out,but I found out I was pregnant.
And, you know, after everything I'm goingthrough, I'm thinking, should I just try?
maybe I can make things betterfor this child.
And, I wanted a girl, you know, onceI accepted it, and I.
(26:51):
I even prayed, and I asked.
God, I just want a little girlwith brown hair and green eyes.
That was my prayer.
And, I started going back to church,
trying to fix all this,but in the meantime, he was.
This guy's a very abused, very, abusive,a very,
very disgusting, nasty,verbally, sexually.
(27:12):
Just.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Cause at least the other guy, it felt likethings were kind of okay, surfacely,
but this guy.
Was that to do all the disgusting stuff?
And was he abusive physicallywith your boys, too? Yes.
Okay. Let. Yes. With my boys.
At one point,he had that in me and broke my nose,
(27:35):
and, I, I was so out of it.
Went in the bathroom, like,kind of turning my head.
And there was just like.It was like a horror scene.
Blood splattered everywhere and in meinstead of, like, standing up for myself,
calling the police,I was more embarrassed that I let myself
get in this place again,and I didn't want my teenage boys to know.
(27:59):
Yeah, I like I told them
we were wrestling and I got hurt,but I think they knew.
I'm sure they knew every day before that
man came home from work,he would call me again to put me in jail.
I'm going to put me in jail.
He did that for like two weeksand I never, I didn't I sure,
sure yeah, I don'tI didn't what you had still never
(28:23):
they called that learned helplessness
is you don't you're not aware of the factthat you can help yourself
and that you should do anythingto help yourself.
And that comesas a result of all that abuse.
So, well, how did that relationship,how long did it continue,
and how did that one end?
I ended up having a baby girl.
With, witgh brown and green,green eyes and brown hair.
(28:44):
And God even told me that in churchand that,
like, not that long ago,I was talking to my daughter.
She is now 31.
And I was talking to her about it.
I've told her everything.
It's like God gave me a best friend.
I shared
everything with her about it, and,she said, mom,
God made the beginning to the end,because I was like,
(29:07):
why would he be so kind to meand give me you when I was in sin?
And that's what she told me,and I held on to that.
And, for our family,she's the cycle right there.
She she kept herself pure.
She married a man that works at church.
He's a worship leader.
She worships. And, God is good.
(29:29):
Yeah. Oh, wow.
It's so when you reflect on itfrom the outside,
the couple of times that you're sayingthat God very clearly spoke to you
the first time is, I'm going to I'mgoing to get you through it.
I'm not taking you out of it.
And then at a timewhen you were really hurting
and really lowand you asked him for something so
(29:51):
personal,can I please have a daughter this time?
And he let you know thatbecause you had eight boys prior to this,
at that point, I had.
Well, I had
five of my own boys. Six.
But I lost one, okay, five of my ownthat were living there.
And then there were, the other kidsfrom the other marriage, but
(30:13):
that would have made all togethernine kids.
Yeah. Okay.
So this was your first daughter,and that was my first daughter, yes.
Special blessing from the Lord.
So how did you get out of thisrelationship?
Well, I found out that shehe sexually abused her,
and I found out later that he had donethe same to his sister.
(30:34):
Is like the generational curses, Oh,my gosh.
You know, and, so I she was too young
to really articulate for court, but,we did go through a divorce.
They did give him monitored visitsat first.
Okay.
And, and that's how we we just gotdivorced, sold our house, and I moved.
(30:56):
I moved on, to a little small,little condo with me and my kids.
Okay.
And it was that the last bad relationship?
I mean, there was one more that was bad.
It wasn't traumatic. It was just wrong.
It was bad.
And it was after that relationship.
I mean, I did marry him.
It was very short, and I knew I had toget out because things were.
(31:23):
His childrenwere very cruel to my daughter.
And I'm like, no, I mean, no,
and Iand he wouldn't do anything to stop it.
So I did leave.
My boys came and moved me and,that was like, in that
that turning point of my life because,I stayed with Diane.
(31:43):
Like couple months, just while we aretransitioning to another place to live.
And I saw
one thing I saw, and I don't know why
it's made such a difference in in my lovefor God
is what I,I knew Diane as a very good friend,
and I moved in with her, and I saw her
(32:06):
as the same person she was on the outside.
And that meant so much to methat it's real.
she didn't pretend in front of people,and she was sweet and kind at home.
She was sweet and kind in public.
And that it impacted me somehow.
(32:26):
And there was once.
Oh. Did you said thatwe're talking about your turning point.
How you a turning point? Yeah. Yeah.
So that relationshipand you were with with Diane
and during this timeit was leaving this man, okay.
It was seeing my mother
and she had Alzheimer'sand she was at the end of her Alzheimer's.
(32:47):
Okay.
And I was seeing how how, bad things were.
I was working at Kaiserfor a friend of mine who was,
she was a childhood friend.
She was cruel to me, cruel,and would embarrass me.
And she was just mean.
But because of
my brokenness, I, just put up with it.
(33:09):
And so it was at the end of all that,
the Kaiser was prepping for Obamacare.
And so they terminated my position.
And it was like,I believe God had it set up.
And so I saw,what was happening with my mom.
I was at the point of, God,I just want more of you.
I want to be live my life obedient.
(33:31):
I want to figure this out and changeand kind of out of this trauma.
And so I just startedtaking care of my mom
and, I would look for work,wasn't finding work.
I just took care of my mom, which was
difficult, difficult.
So at any time during this whole timewe've been talking, did you cut off
(33:53):
relationships with your parentsor with your brother?
With my dad.
There was five years that I did,but nobody cared.
So I went back and started seeing my mombecause I just still wanted to see my mom.
Nobody cared.
Yeah, nobody caredif you were there or not, right?
No doesn’t matter. You know? Nobody.
(34:14):
Bobbie cut us off.That was like, no problem.
they were more like that, so,So I wanted to see my mom.
So I just started going back,and nothing changed.
Nothing.
So, with my brother that I didn't
cut him offtill I was taking care of my dad.
So. But, so you took care of your mom
(34:35):
with Alzheimer's in your own homeduring the day, or did you go back?
And I would go.I would go to her house because
my dad was still drinking.
So he'd be in the garage all the time.
And my poor mom, like, I would call herlike, mom, what are you doing?
I'm making tortillasor I'm cleaning the carpet.
(34:56):
And then I would go over thereand I'm like,
there is no way she could have been.
That's how I started seeingwhat was really going on
with her and all her, like her medication.
She had it in and it was bad.
So I just talked to my dad and I said,I think someone needs to take care of mom.
And he agreed.
(35:16):
You know, soI just came in daily and took care of her.
And it was, someone with Alzheimer's.
It's hard to have lots of storiesand lots of, anger.
And, it was difficult.
She was like childlikeAnd so sometimes I would just,
like, lay next to her and hold her
and try to love her and give herthe love that she didn't have.
(35:40):
And, she had a long strugglewith doing that, like,
with your I mean, what was going oninside of you, like, I'm going to do that.
Did you do itbecause your heart actually wanted to?
My heart wanted my heart. Really?
You were so loving and forgivingthat you were willing to do that.
Well, yeah, my heart definitely want.
And yeah, I can.
That's the one thing I remember
(36:01):
because I was like, God,she never gave me any gifts.
But the one thing I can remember about meis when I was young,
I would have so much compassion for my dadwhen people were mean,
like kids, like callingfatso and I would stand up for him and,
and even there was one timesomebody was going to beat up
(36:21):
John and I just couldn'tI couldn't handle that.
Like, for somebody to feel likeit was just something, I guess, in me.
But when it came to my mom no, I,
I, I wanted to take care of her.
It was difficult.
She yelled at me, yeah,yeah, and slap my face a lot of times.
(36:42):
she was difficult, but
in the end, I knew what I believedwas an assignment from God.
Yeah.
Like you want to be obedient.
Well, you go and so it was okay.
And then you took care of your dadafter that,
when your dad declined and was starting to
near the end of his life.
And that one was hard for you.
(37:04):
You said. Yeah.
So by that point, my dad had asked meto move in right after my mom passed.
So I moved in, it was June first, 2014.
And it was me and my daughter,and we moved in
and my dad was still like thatcontrolling guy, but he did quit drinking.
(37:25):
So thankfully for that, he quit drinking.
And, he, he had mejust do all kinds of projects,
paint his house and fix this and do that.
I was like the handyman for him.
And, the only thing that was okaywith it is I learned a lot, which
I like to do those kind of things, andit was my only way to even bond with him.
(37:47):
So, and my oldest brother would get so mad
at me and he’d tell me, get on there,put him in the home, still the same.
And I would tell himI really believe this is what God wants.
So I have to be obedient.
And, and then of course, towards the endhe started,
calming down and,being a little bit nicer.
(38:08):
And I know that, like in the last monthsof his life, where he would go
in and out of consciousness,one day he woke up and he said,
I want to thank you for being so kindto me, never being mean to me.
And I think that wasmaybe his way of apologizing.
I don't know,and you never, never confronted him.
(38:29):
You never said anythinglike I was too scared of him.
Yes, I know I never did so,but I was just.
I just treated him with as much love.
Even though there were times I get madand I'd want to leave.
And God was. Show me.
No, this is what I want you.
So I just, I mean, all always kiss himgoodnight.
(38:50):
I would always, I loved him, cookedwhatever he wanted,
did whatever he asked to me, it was,
I don't know which is more for God,I think, I know, like, on May 4th,
the year he passed, I was
putting on my makeup in the bathroom rightnext to his room, and I heard him come.
(39:11):
He was in that, like,he would go in that kind of comatose state
and, Well, and I heard him going,
Lord, Lord, forgive me for my sins.
And he was just crying out.
And immediatelyI just knew this is the why.
And I'm glad I was obedient for his.
So I did you talk to him about the Lord.
(39:32):
I mean, yeah, thank him.
Okay, so you were actually talking to himabout his soul
and recognizing he was going to die.
And so he from thathe actually accepted the Lord.
What? That is really powerful.
That is unbelievable.
There was even times
like prior, like he would say, you know,would you read me the Bible?
So I would just sit and read himthe Bible
(39:54):
and I would just ask,what do you want me to read?
Yeah.
so yeah.
So once that happened, I knew.
And I just know,no matter how hard things are,
that is what it's all aboutis bringing souls to Christ.
That's what matters is eternity.
Now, I
want to just say to people listening,it's like, this is a choice
(40:18):
of whether you want to carefor your abuser
and, at the end of their life,
many people choose to do itbecause they feel
that that is healing to themand they're being obedient to the Lord.
But especiallyif the abuse was still continuing
(40:38):
and he was still screaming at youand calling you names and hitting
you and saying horrible, sexually
degrading comments to you,
I don't I don't think God, in that casewould want you
to have gone through the rest of that,to go through that again.
So I just want to say to peoplethat are listening that this is a choice
(41:02):
that you get to make, you get to assessis this is this okay for me?
Is this good for me?
Is this going to be, too much for me?
Because that kind of stuff can makeyou mentally sick.
It can make you physically sickand emotionally sick.
So it's not a have to, but it can be
a healing choice as it was for you.
(41:23):
And, that's it's funnyyou say that because that was
what I wanted to leave everybody with
is that this was my assignment,and I knew it was my assignment.
And I would never, never, never,say that somebody else
should do the same thing, right?
Because this is just what I knewin my heart and what God wanted for me.
(41:47):
And I know for many people, be too much
it was because you did saythat there were you'd walk into a room
and it would bring upa really vivid memory of something
that had happened with the abuseand that that was happening a lot.
And what would you do with that memorywhen it came up to you?
Would you just turn it over to the Lord,or were you seeing a therapist
(42:08):
during this time?
I was not seeing a therapistduring this time,
but this is what kind of helped mewrite the book.
Okay, well, because,
each room held a memorybecause they lived in that house 50 years.
Yes, that's where I was raised.
So, it just helped me
kind of process, I think, like,it was hard.
(42:31):
And that part was really hardbecause I was right there in that place.
It took place with my dad.
So I wouldI would journal, I would write it down.
And that's, again,what helped with the book,
and it made the memoryso very real and clear.
Yeah.
And so I would just process I would cry,
(42:52):
I would fail, and, I would move on,
I would just do what I needed to do.
And you didn't you weren't.Were you talking to a friend?
Were you talking to. Yes, daughter.
Yes, I yes, I had, I had, a really goodfriend at that time that I would talk to
and then my daughter, my daughter,like I said, she has been my best friend.
(43:14):
And we as we, while we were doing this,we would laugh.
And you, we have fundespite like my dad would tell me
to paint and he'd come out with his walkerand his flashlight,
magnifying glassjust as someone walking still.
Amen.
Who would I would have to laugh,otherwise I would have gone crazy.
He’d come out with
(43:35):
a magnifying glassto see if you were doing it well enough.
And that's what he had,because he couldn't see that well.
Oh he couldn’t see very well.
So, he would be pushing his walk.
And so we would just laugh at itinstead of get upset.
Yeah.
You have to almost.
It's it's so crazy.
And so your healing well,I have to say one more thing.
(43:56):
The big part of your story that goes alongwith this whole theme of discounting
you and gaslighting and the double abuseor quadruple abuse or whatever
it is, when you say eight and ten and nineand ten times abused by other people.
You said during that first marriage, wasit the one you married when you were 16,
(44:17):
the father of your first couple of kids,
that his mother was the mayor?
Was that the one his mom was the mayor?
And when...
Yes, she was the mayor.
So when you play a mother grandmother.
So when you reported itor went to the police,
he would get arrested,but they would let that he'd get let off.
Oh, she would get him out all the time,to get him out all the time.
(44:40):
All the time.
Yeah. And. Yeah. Yeah.
So that was very frustrating.
Oh, totally.
So there again,another person who's not held to account
and just sent back to go ahead,keep abusing her, keep doing it more.
Nobody his motherhis grandmother didn't step in
and say I'll get you out of jail,but don't you touch that.
(45:03):
Oh no, no, no.
And his mother at that time, and she was ait was his adopted
mother that, she did not likeme because I found out later
they were having a sexual relationship.
No, No. And yes, I no so.
And there would be timesI would be there that he I'd end up like
(45:24):
with them, bloody face or whatever.
And she would just stop crying.
There's no reason to cry, shut up and,I found out later that yeah,
that was going on because she didn'tlike the fact that he was with you.
Things like a possessive.
Yes. She didn't care if the.
No, Maybe she encouraged it.
Who knows? You may have she may have.
(45:45):
And then, once I had kids, she would
she was trying to sayshe was going to take my kids if I.
So they always held that over my head.
And she had a lot of money
and she had a lot of clout with her motherbeing the mayor.
So I was always afraid of that, that,yeah,
they could take my kidsso I would do what they wanted me to do.
(46:06):
So sometimes I, I doubt I,but I don't really doubt.
But I think I'm not quick to say,oh, this is a spiritual thing.
It's because of this.
But in, in this case in your life,
I mean, telling you as far as spiritual
warfare and spiritual sexual
sins passed downfrom one person to the other,
(46:28):
you even found a man, unbeknownst to you,
that was having
an incestual relationshipwith his mother. Yes.
And do you ever gofind out when that started?
It started when he was, 14. He.
And she admitted it to me.
Okay.
When I confronted her,she admitted it to me.
(46:50):
And he was 14.
He was in a motorcycle accident.
He was in a body cast.
So she started having to bathe him.
So that's when it happened.
And she said it was
because her husband was an alcoholicand so he could not perform.
And so that was her excuse.
I expected her to deny everything,but I got an earful. Wow.
(47:11):
Yeah.
Okay, so the healing now, normally todaywhen we talk about healing
from all this traumatic abusein every category,
we talk about trauma therapy and, eMDRand all the different things
that you can do to helpget rid of the complex PTSD that you would
have in your body and in your memoriesand in your subconscious and unconscious.
(47:35):
Have you done any of that?
I mean, I've never done any kind ofwhat they call, trauma therapy.
I've done therapy, like pretty much,
you know, since my 30sand on, I've done some kind of therapy.
I was diagnosed with, PTSD, of course.
Yeah. And I know a lot of thingsstill trigger me.
(47:57):
It's still trigger me.
And I believe it's just going to bean ongoing healing process
until the day I die,because it's layer upon, layer upon layer.
Totally.
And so, and and, like I not dated
since the last person I was with,and that was 2013 and, I'm okay with that.
(48:20):
I, I'm good where I'm at.
God would have to saythis is who I want you with, but honestly,
I would just rather serve himhowever that looks, in a way of, helping
somebody else who's been in, in my shoesnow, you know what I mean?
That's my heart.
That's where I would rather do so. Okay.
(48:43):
How were your kids affected. My kids?
Oh, definitely.
The three oldest ones, were affectedthe most.
They struggled a lot throughout their lifewith anger, with, substance abuse.
But now, praise God,
the three of my oldest kids are doingand doing well.
(49:04):
They're, They are they're doing well.
And they all have a belief, in in God
and doing their best to walk out that.
Okay, one of them went to therapy,the other two don't want to.
And that's, that up to them.
That's your choice.
Then I have then the next son down from
(49:25):
the other marriage.
He's fine. He's doing good.
Then my, Well,the youngest one is doing fine.
My number four son will not speak to me.
Oh, yeah?
What is the reason?
He's an alcoholic.
He says that because, My daughter's
dad was very abusive to them.
RememberI told you he was abusive to my kids.
(49:48):
And, he pretty much just won't talk to mebecause of that.
Okay.
And, and so he blames you for me?
Tommy wishesI was dead at one time, but I just.
I had to cut ties with himbecause he is very hurtful.
Yeah, and I understand his anger.
I do, and I would love to sitand talk to him if he doesn't want that.
(50:10):
So I can pray from afar.
It took a lot, you know.
It took a lot to get through. That hurt.
Oh, yeah.
Just more hurt, more kind of trauma.
But my kids have been very supportiveto me.
The other ones.
And so, they're the ones who enforce me.
Just, to let him be,you've got to figure it out, right?
(50:30):
Right. Yeah. So that is hurtful.
Really hard.
But, yeah, you do have to take careof yourself and make sure that you're
not being further abused,
because our kids can be upsetabout the things that happened to them,
and they can tell us, andwe need to listen and be very empathetic.
But we don't need to be abusedin the process
(50:53):
because they're adultsand they've just like you handled
your childhood as an adultand didn't go back and abuse your parents.
You could be that.
You could have told them.
You could have told it, confrontedeach and every person
that you needed to confront you.
You were entitled to thatif you wanted to, but
(51:14):
not to where he's abusingyou and hurting you.
So I'm glad that you are at peacewith that.
Did you feel responsible?
I mean, he obviously he's blaming you.
I know you said in the book that you did.
You felt guilty for what you hadput your kids through,
which is pretty normal,especially for us as women.
We are just we feel like we we'rethe ones that are what we did, allow it.
(51:37):
We did the best we could.
That's part of how you have to heal,as you have to understand
and give yourself compassion.
You were in thatbecause of your childhood.
You didn't know any better.You didn't have a way out.
You were doing what you thoughtyou had to do and you were a victim.
And, how did you come to terms with that?
(51:58):
It was hard.
And I still, of struggle.
If I see them struggling, I struggle.
of course I felt guilty.
I felt shame,because I love my kids so much.
And, we want the best.
We want the better for them.
But, it just took a lot of praying and,and even forgiving myself,
which was the hardest thingout of everything, was it?
Forgive me. Isn't that amazing?
(52:20):
How could it be harderfor you to forgive yourself?
I know it is.
It's been the hardest for meto forgive myself, for allowing my kids
to have been hurt.
It's it's been really difficult.
And yet.
We really were trying.
I know I was trying really hard, and, yes,I made a lot of mistakes, but a lot
(52:43):
because of how I was raised,and the environment that I was in.
But, it'sjust the hardest to forgive yourself.
How did you finally do it
again?
It is a lot of prayer and unders.
The one thing I really understood was that
if God could forgive me,
who am I to hold that back on myself?
(53:04):
He's God, the creator of the universe,
so that that'sthe one thing that helped me.
And then also see the love that my kidshave for me and the other people.
That's really, really a blessing.
It honestly is.
And you know what?
One thing too
one big thing is that the
(53:26):
the next assignmentthat God had for me is that,
although my son, my my second son,
he owns a house and it's a big house
and, he asked me to moveinto the front part of the house.
So in doing so,
God has allowed, like, redemption,to be able to love that
(53:49):
even though they're from,they're all single and they're all grown.
But God has allowed me to give thema lot of the love that they needed.
And I have seen since I've been here
and I know it's not me, it's God using me.
A tremendous differencein all three of them.
And so, I'm I'm blessed by that.
(54:12):
Yeah.
I'm blessed to see what God is, is doing.
And I'm just waiting to seewhat he's going to do next.
Yeah, that'sthat's really like a big blessing,
that you could actually see thatthere's been a change in your kid's life.
So wonderful.
I can't wait till your grandmaand you get to love on those babies,
which is like,oh my goodness, I'm a grandma.
(54:34):
A grandma.
You said my grandma eight times.
Oh, eight times.
You said they're all still single.
So I just made that leap into, no cutekids.
A lot of them.
The grandkids are from,
prior relationshipsand because of their brokenness and stuff.
So there and then my daughter is the onethat's married to the worship leader.
They have, she's almost ten months now,
(54:57):
and she's the little joy of my life. And.
Yeah, so you can just give theunconditional grandma love and hug them.
And that that in itselfis really healing, too.
So yeah, it is, it is.
So I expect because you're still young,you got lots of years left
(55:18):
and a lot of healing and compassion.
I expect God to do something in your lifeto use this for you to reach out
and heal others, even maybe beyondjust sharing your story on podcast.
Because it's just that
the healing that you've had is phenomenal.
(55:39):
And, just. Yeah.
So what thoughts would you like to leave
with the people who are listening?
Well, you stole my thought.
Darn. Sorry.
That was my thought was, to make sure
that if you're ever goingto take care of your parents, you know,
you know that you know that, you know,don't don't just do it out of emotion.
(56:03):
But and the other thing is, is healing.
Healing is available.
And I think, honestly, looking at my
the journey, it was
it was even though it's not us doing it,but it's us surrendering.
because I feel like God pursued me
and that's why I would,why did you love me so much?
(56:26):
He pursued me.
And when I finally surrendered.
Amazing things have happened in my.
What did that mean? What does that meanwhen you surrender? Tell me.
Like what you did, what you said,what your heart was, what was.
What was that thing?
Was it just a moment where you just saidI just what was it?
It started as a moment.
(56:46):
It started as a moment to just say,you know what? God,
I love you so much,
and I want to live my life to honoryou and be obedient to you.
I want to surrenderevery area of me to you.
I don't know what that looks like rightnow, but that's that's what I'm thinking.
That what I want, that is my desire.
(57:09):
And I just in my prayer time,I just continued and I continue
to lay things down.
whatever it isyou want, I what I want to do,
I want to do whatever you want me to do.
And that's where the change has occurred.
Yeah. HowI wish I would have known that years ago.
I didn't, but,and now I feel a little prompting
(57:31):
in the area of.
Maybe kind of deliverance in a sense,
because I know I believe that
this was a generational curseand that demonic curse.
Because how couldthis have just kept happening?
it's I definitely was in your family,
(57:52):
but for itto even be in the families of men
that you were attractedto, multiple times, not just one,
but it is one that every one of them.
Oh, my gosh, that that is. Yeah.
So how do I can talk to you about that.
Well, I just want to thank everyonefor listening.
(58:15):
I, I was again riveted to her as she wastalking, like I was reading the book.
But it's just an amazing story of healing,
not only in herself, but in her family.
And, I just want tothank you for watching.
Thank you for listening.
And, just if you knowsomebody that needs to hear this,
that needs to know thathealing is available and that God cares,
(58:38):
even though they've endured all of thosepainful, horrendous experiences.
Please pass this on and I hopethat you will join us next time.
Thank you Bobbie, so much for being here.
It is a pleasure.Thank you. God bless you.
Thank you.
Thank you for listeningto Change My Relationship.
We hope you will subscribe to thesepodcasts and share them with your friends.
(59:01):
Karla would love to hear from you.
She welcomes ideas for a future podcast,as well as your feedback
on how the podcasts have helped your lifeand relationships.
You can email her at.
karla@changemyrelationship.com
For more informationon Change My Relationship and Karla
Downing's ministry, including her books,studies, devotionals, podcasts
(59:24):
and YouTube videosvisit changemyrelationship.com.
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