February 10, 2025 • 22 mins
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Explore the captivating intersection of artificial intelligence and emotional intelligence as we promise to unravel how maintaining our humanity can complement technology. We'll discuss the delicate balance of embracing technological advances while fostering critical thinking skills and ethical AI usage among students. Through open dialogue and respect for differing viewpoints, we aim to bridge the gap between technology and education.
About our guests:
With over 20 years of experience, Joni Staaf Stamford (formerly Sturgill) is a licensed professional counselor, speaker, and author with expertise in emotional intelligence, mindfulness, and positive psychology. As a long-time student and teacher of Eastern philosophy and Western psychology, Joni offers secular, integrative mental and emotional insights to participants of her programs so they can heal themselves through breathwork, movement, awareness, perspective-shifting acceptance, and skilled action toward a life they want. In all avenues of her work, she empowers individuals to live with purpose and perspective. She is also an Amazon best-selling author. Learn more at www.insightwithjoni.com.
Dr. Brian Stamford is a Program Director at the Allegheny Intermediate Unit (AIU), an organization providing professional development to districts across Western Pennsylvania. Dr. Stamford also serves as state co-lead for the Classroom Diagnostic Tools, leading professional development efforts statewide, as well as co-lead for the statewide PA Association of Intermediate Units (PAIU) Curriculum Directors group. He is a Code.org regional manager, and a certified Apple Education Trainer, offering high-quality professional development on innovative teaching practices, including integrating AI tools into planning and instruction. Prior to this, Dr. Stamford worked in public education as a science and computer teacher, instructional coach and administrator.
Want to learn more about ChangED? Check out our website at: learn.mciu.org/changed
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
welcome back to change ed changed the number one
podcast on every ai.
It doesn't matter what aimachine you use.
If you ask it which is the bestchange ed podcast, it will come
back with this one actually notthe case.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
We just tested it with claude and he refuses to
make any decisions about reallife things wow, disappointing
but in the meantime, brian andjoni have some more things they
can tell us about.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Ai they?
Do from an actual, real lifeexperiences and what that means
to us from a social, emotional,wellness standpoint.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
A human standpoint.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
I appreciate the interconnectedness of their
message, so I'm excited to learnmore with each advance that we
make, it sounds like there'salso potential for it to come at
a cost, and so we're makingthese advancements.
We're learning more about whowe are as individuals.
Really, a lot of this wouldhave been fascinating when I was
(01:10):
in high school and I was takingall those tests about, like,
what career would be good foryou?
Number one for me waspodcasting.
No surprise.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
But In the 90s yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Okay, but it didn't exist.
But I'm curious of how do wekeep our eye on that human
aspect, how do we keep thatinfused into it?
So it's still part of who weare because, to your point,
through the pandemic, I feltlike the panic actually set us
up for generative AI showing up,cause it was like the way to
connect was to be on a screen sowe could have that human
(01:40):
connection.
And then it's almost like webecame numb to that and then it
was like the screen, the screenwas the connection.
So, joni, I'm curious on yourperspective on that and are you
seeing us kind of correctingthat, or are we still in that
murky space trying to navigatethrough that?
Speaker 4 (01:56):
I think we're still in that murky space and, in my
personal opinion, we need tohave more engagement with
psychologists, humanists, withthe developers of this kind of
technology to kind of get thatperspective so that they're
wrapped in together.
I don't know if that'shappening always.
I think that that should happenmore.
(02:16):
But the other piece of this isI think alongside you know,
Brian offers all these AItrainings in schools and AI
trainings to differentpopulations.
I think that what needs to gohand in hand with AI training is
emotional intelligence training, so that we are not overly
depending on the technology.
(02:37):
Again, the technology is greatif you use it as a tool, but
when it becomes a way of being,that's when you're losing your
humanity.
That's when you're losing youremotional intelligence.
And just to clarify what I meanwhen I say emotional
intelligence, it's aboutself-awareness, which means
understanding yourself at a deeplevel mentally, emotionally,
(02:59):
physically.
It's self-control.
Self-control means emotionalregulation, means being able to
understand your emotions enoughand being able to know when it's
appropriate to express them andknowing appropriate ways to
express them.
It's about social connectionand understanding how to have
(03:19):
human social connection, how tomake eye contact, how body
language works, which issomething we lost during COVID,
whenever you said this was theonly way we could connect.
I don't know if you rememberexperiencing even though Zoom
was the only way we couldconnect during COVID.
I know I always felt exhaustedafter Zoom and I didn't quite
(03:43):
feel a sense of connection.
Well, that's because somethinglike 80% of our communication is
body language, and if you'rejust a head in a box looking on
Zoom, you're missing theperson's body language.
You might be able to see facialexpressions, but body language
is how we understand each other,even more so than the words
(04:03):
that we speak.
And again, these are all thingsthat AI can't help us with,
because we need to do the workthat happens inside and if we're
doing that individual workself-awareness, self-control,
social connections and findingpurpose and meaning is the last
piece of emotional intelligence.
Being able to live your lifeaccording to what's important to
(04:27):
you, your values Again, theseare things we have to work on as
individuals and a lot of peopledon't know how to do that.
That's not being taught in ourschools.
It's not being taught to any ofus.
So I think that if ouremotional intelligence can grow
alongside technology, I believethat that would be a fantastic
(04:49):
merging into the future andgrowth, but I don't know if
that's happening right now.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
I have to ask Brian now.
I do something very similar.
I go out and integrate some ofthese AI tools for teachers, but
, being on the other side of thestate, sometimes it's very
different.
You know different districtsneed different things.
So when you're going out toschools, first, what are they
asking you for as far as AI?
And then part two of thequestion are you finding
yourself adding some of thishumanity and some of Joni's
(05:19):
philosophy and ideas into yourtrainings?
And it's okay if you say no.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
The answer is yes.
Speaker 5 (05:31):
I'm just curious If you're finding yourself.
I wanted you to put that intochat GPT and see what it said.
So last year I had two primaryrequests from school districts.
One is can you come and speakto our teachers about AI tools
and maybe show them some waysthey can begin integrating these
into planning and instruction?
And, interestingly, the secondrequest is our teachers have
(05:55):
requested that you come and showthem tools they can use to
catch kids who are cheating.
And, tony, I'm sure your AI 101sessions looked very similar to
mine.
I'm sure across the statethey're very similar.
Looking under the hood of AI,experiencing a few tools, flying
(06:17):
it to a few simple ways youcould use it to multiply your
effort.
But as far as the requests tospeak to staff about tools they
can use to catch kids cheatingwith AI, I always started it
this way, where I would walk inand the first thing I would say
to the staff is I would say Iunderstand, you want to know
(06:38):
tools you can use to catch kidscheating with AI, and everyone
would say yes and I would sayI'm going to tell you the best
way to do it.
Just lean in, lean in.
I'm going to tell you ready,know your kids and, as you can
imagine, there's always a fewfolks in that classroom who
(06:58):
aren't happy with that answerbecause they were looking for
what is the website or what isthe tool we can buy.
But the truth of the matter is,if you know your students, you
truly know your students.
You know their voice, you knowtheir style of writing, you know
their interests.
You know their voice, you knowtheir style of writing.
You know their interests, youknow their, their writing
ability.
(07:19):
You already know, even if it'sdeep down on an intuitive level,
if that student has createdthat work on their own or if
they use the AI tool.
So I guess, to answer yourquestion, do I incorporate any
of Joni's beliefs on cautiouslyusing AI into my sessions?
(07:39):
I do.
If I could build on that though.
So after we get over theinitial shock of the easiest way
to catch your kids cheatingwith AI is to know your students
Then what I suggest is perhapsit's time we begin changing what
classroom instruction andassessment looks like.
If it can easily be completedby AI, then that shouldn't be
(08:05):
the end.
Skill that we're trying tobuild in our students continues
to increase in capability as wemove towards AGI or artificial
general intelligence, with whicha lot of experts believe will
happen in just a few years.
Those simple low level DOK1tasks can and will be completed
(08:29):
by AI.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
And in reality we've been kind of saying in education
, dok1 tasks are not where it'sat anyway.
Research is showing that's nottransforming their thinking to
begin with.
So the fact that there's now atool to take that low level
stuff is kind of forcingeducation and educators in the
field to kind of reassess, likeyou're saying, reassess how I'm
(08:52):
teaching and how I'm assessing.
We can't continue.
Nor really should we have beenliving in DOK1 to begin with.
Speaker 5 (09:08):
I agree.
As a matter of fact, some saywell, the rollout of AI is
similar to when calculators wererolled out and it's similar to
schools being connected to theweb.
But I think, when we look back,it's going to be viewed as
something much larger, like theagricultural revolution or the
industrial revolution.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
It feels like it's going to disrupt the system.
Speaker 5 (09:24):
Finally, something will disrupt the system.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Because I felt for a while COVID was a great
opportunity for us to disruptthe system and we missed the
mark.
Speaker 5 (09:33):
We went right back to what we were doing.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
In fact, it was worse .
Like I don't know how else todescribe it.
Like we went literally back towe were making, we were having
momentum to move people out, wewere doing some open-ended
thinking, we were doing some ofthese things.
And then we went to COVID and,because we had to transition so
fast and I could maybe justspeak for the eastern part of
the state we went straight backto DOK1.
Can you fill this in?
(09:56):
Can you turn this in?
Can you do this?
Because I have to get this intomy classroom, I have to get
this done and I have to get itdone right now.
So I feel like in a lot of ways, it pulled us back.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
One significant change, though, is that now I
have six months of toilet paperstockpiled at my house, so
that's a big change for me.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
How have you not gotten through the six months?
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Just keep it going we stopped buying it.
You just kept buying it.
Every time we go to the store,we're buying toilet paper.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
We don't want to run into that situation again, so I
learned.
Well, with six people in yourhouse, I feel like.
My question for you, though, ishow do you two reconcile in
your house?
So my husband is also all aboutthe tech and all about like.
He's definitely like a gamer.
He's all about tech all thetime, and I like to be.
I grew up in Florida, so I needto be in the sun, sometimes,
(10:43):
like I just need to be outsideand I need to put my feet in the
dirt.
I need to be that.
Now.
I definitely have technologyand I will use it, but how do
the two of you reconcile that inyour house?
And then how does that notcause problems?
Speaker 4 (10:56):
I feel like Brian and I have enough commonality.
It's funny you said you need togo outside and put your feet in
the dirt, but Brian and I areboth nature people.
We both love to go sit in thewoods.
Oh, that's helpful.
So that's you know.
I think we have enoughcommonality in that regard and,
um, like I, like I said before,I think we both have respect for
(11:19):
what each other does and whatwe bring to what we do, that we
have an open mind when listeningto each other, even if we have
differing opinions.
So I think it's just that wehave a base of respect for each
other that helps us comesomewhere in the middle.
That's awesome.
Speaker 5 (11:38):
And I would add to that we both acknowledge that we
come from differentperspectives.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Right.
Speaker 5 (11:45):
And well, and you know, I guess I'd say we're also
driven by slightly differentfears or concerns.
Absolutely slightly differentfears or concerns.
Absolutely, I acknowledgeeverything she says about the
danger in offloading a lot ofour human tasks to AI, but on
(12:06):
the other hand, though, we can'tafford to not start using AI in
our planning and instruction,we can't afford to not begin
teaching our students how to useAI in an ethical and
responsible manner, because inthe corporate world already what
we're seeing is employers arelooking at new hires and, as a
(12:32):
mandatory requirement, as aprerequisite to being hired,
they're looking for people whocan work efficiently with AI as
a co-pilot.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
Except we found out that the number one thing
employers are actually lookingfor in new hires is emotional
intelligence.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Oh, that's quite the juxtaposition.
Yeah, that is reallyinteresting.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Wow, you know what I love?
I think that you two are amodel beyond, even beyond this
conversation, a model of like.
We don't have to always agree,we can have varying perspectives
, and how many conflicts havethere been in the world because
all people weren't sitting atthe table.
They didn't invite opposingthoughts to be like again that
(13:19):
respect where it's like I careabout you more than I care about
AI.
We can agree to disagree, andwhat a great model for education
in general that let's have thatdiscord, let's have that
conversation.
It doesn't change the value ofwho you are as a person and
something that I think in a lotof ways has been lost in our
(13:39):
society and be able to modelthat and bring it back through
this completely uniqueperspective that I think should
not be a unique perspective.
So thank you for coming on themost popular podcast in the
whole world so we can share thiswith people we're so happy to
be here.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Don't check our data, yeah.
Speaker 5 (13:58):
I'm proud to share that, while Joni was completely
against utilizing AI foranything early on, I have
convinced her to some degree ofthe value of using generative AI
tools in some limitedsituations.
So, when you go back to, how doyou two peacefully coexist in a
(14:20):
house?
There are times where, if we'retalking about our work and she
mentions that she has a task todo and it's something that is
tedious, something that seemslike this is going to take a
good bit of effort and time, Iwill often suggest can I show
you how you might use generativeAI for this?
(14:41):
And out of that mutual respectwe were talking about, she'll
often say, sure, why don't youshow me?
And a lot of times in the endshe'll say, wow, that was a very
good time saver.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
Or that it helped get me to where I wanted to be so I
could think about it in adifferent way.
For sure.
And I've also encouraged Brianto exercise his creative skills
and his own instinct andintuition when it comes to we
like to cook and we like to whenwe go out.
If we have a really uniquecocktail, we'd like to try and
(15:16):
recreate that cocktail at home.
That's a fun.
So whether it's a recipe orwhether it's a cocktail and I
really have always enjoyed ifI'm tasting something out at a
restaurant, I'm like I knowthere's this ingredient in this,
I know there's this, I canrecreate this at home.
And then I like to try and goand play with it and recreate it
.
And Brian's like why do you dothat?
You could just put it into chatGPT, it'll come up with it.
(15:38):
I'm like, because I want toexercise this skill and ability
and my own instinct andintuition and use my senses,
because that's an enjoyablehuman experience.
I don't want a machine todecide, and Brian has actually
taken up experimenting with somethings on his own and not going
to chat GPT for everything, butrather using his own senses and
(16:02):
sense of creativity to come upwith a cocktail, or you know a
simple recipe without using chatGPT.
Speaker 5 (16:10):
Yes, turns out sometimes I actually know that a
little bit of rosemary mighthelp this recipe.
Somewhere deep inside I knewthat and I didn't need a AI to
tell me that?
Speaker 2 (16:24):
That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Everybody needs a little rosemary in their life.
Well, look, you've got my vote.
I'm voting for the Stanfordticket for 2024.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Can we talk to them for hours?
Yeah, this is awesome.
I told you they were awesome.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Again, the word that's coming to my mind is
balance, and that's one thingthat we have not been hearing.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
And.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
I appreciate the balance that you're both
offering and saying these areboth important and that you know
that these two quote unquoteopposing things have equal value
and we need to hold them bothin our presence this entire time
.
So I am interested to actuallysee how this is going to play
out.
We would like to offer to youthe second to last closing
thought for or well, second andthird, I don't know.
(17:06):
Second, ish.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
The reason why it's the second is because Andrew
always has to be the one thatclose it.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Yeah, I don't know how it's going to go this time.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Joni, maybe another time you could come on and give
a little humanity to AndrewSeriously, if you would love to
provide therapy services forTony and I, but we'd have to
record it just so everybody elsecould hear.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
I'm on a limited Zoom here.
It's actually going to shutdown.
I'm so sorry.
40 minutes and we're done.
Yeah, so you have anything thatmaybe you'd like to add or say,
or you know something, inspiredyou as, you were sharing.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
I would say my final thought is that if you're
someone who uses AI to bediscerning about how you're
using it and what you're usingit for, and to be discerning
meaning, don't turn to it foreverything, but consider
particularly trying to utilizeyour own senses, your own
instinct, your own intuition toguide you in things that are
either intended to be fun andenjoyable or to exercise that
(18:13):
part of who you are, so thatyou're not again turning over
all your decision-making to AI,so just to be discerning.
Speaker 5 (18:21):
Fair enough, and I would say, if you are someone
who is fearful of losing yourhumanity when using AI or very
hesitant to adopt it, I guess Iwould ask you to just be open to
stepping into it.
If you use a calculator, didthat cause you to lose your
(18:42):
ability to do long division?
You may use the internet forresearch.
It doesn't mean you've lostyour ability to scan a book and
pull out relevant information.
It's just those things aregreat multipliers of effort, so
I would encourage you to give ita try.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
Cautiously.
Speaker 5 (19:03):
But enthusiastically.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
Maintaining your humanity.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
I can see a kid I'm getting your job done in a
quarter of the time I can see akid on the edge of the pool
being like yeah, jump in, honey.
No no no jump in.
It's too cold.
I don't know what to do.
Get a swim vest that wasamazing.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
That seems like how we usually end our podcasts.
Yeah, that's awesome.
You guys.
You are great.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
My biggest takeaway from this podcast is that we
absolutely had to find a way tohave video, because this has
been a very entertaining andlike so much like you said, joni
, about the body language, likeso much body language going on,
and you two are dynamites.
So thank you for all you'resharing and what I was hearing
from your closing thoughts isthat AI has a time and a place,
(19:56):
and for us to be able to add inthat humanity piece, to know the
difference and not just handover the reins, because that
comes at a cost how are wepresent as human beings in that
space?
And because we have so much toadd, we have so much value that
we can add just by being peoplethat will take this in a very
strong, unique position.
By being people that will takethis in a very strong, unique
position, I wanted to say, tolike solidify that that AI has
(20:16):
time and a place, like cruisecontrol until I was in Patrice's
car that does all these weirdthings it has like eyes and it
does it, but with old fashionedcruise control.
right, it had a time and a place.
I wasn't going to use cruisecontrol in town.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
It still does have it .
Okay, so here we go.
It still does have a time andplace.
Just because it slows down,because the car in front of it
is slowing down, doesn't meanit's not good, right, I've been
in the car when you're driving,it's better that the car is
doing it than you.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
That's a Brian car.
I want to drive the Joni carthat has for people.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
No, you want to drive the 1975 station wagon.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
I just want to sit back and drink my coffee, right.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
But my point is that you're not always going to be
using cruise control.
You're still, as a person atleast.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
I'm using it a lot 2024.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
We still have.
Oh, you know what this analogyworks.
Everyone liked it.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
It doesn't Sorry.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Alright, thank you so much for coming on to this
train wreck we call a podcast.
We appreciate your insights andwe want to remind all of our
listeners that you came to thebest spot.
We're going to keep bringingyou great information like this
and all of these insights, andmake sure that you follow and
send this to all of your friends, and even people you don't like
, because they need to hear thisperspective, wow.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
That's a glowing review I yes, thank you.
I just want to say thank youfor making the last meeting of
my day so enjoyable thank youreally great way to end the week
.
We appreciate you guys wellthank you.
Speaker 5 (21:45):
Thank you and andrew.
Well said.
So this is for the b-roll orthe closing credits.
Well said, that's why you havethe last word.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Thank you Brian?
No, but it's going to stop atlast word.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
No way it's going to stop at Brian.
I don't know when we see younext, but I'm getting you one of
these.
You get one of these podcastfamous stickers.
Speaker 5 (22:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
I'll even sign it.
Next time you're at pain, signit you, sir, get a selfie run,
run now.
welcome back to change ed changed the number one
podcast on every ai.
It doesn't matter what aimachine you use.
If you ask it which is the bestchange ed podcast, it will come
back with this one actually notthe case.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
We just tested it with claude and he refuses to
make any decisions about reallife things wow, disappointing
but in the meantime, brian andjoni have some more things they
can tell us about.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Ai they?
Do from an actual, real lifeexperiences and what that means
to us from a social, emotional,wellness standpoint.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
A human standpoint.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
I appreciate the interconnectedness of their
message, so I'm excited to learnmore with each advance that we
make, it sounds like there'salso potential for it to come at
a cost, and so we're makingthese advancements.
We're learning more about whowe are as individuals.
Really, a lot of this wouldhave been fascinating when I was
(01:10):
in high school and I was takingall those tests about, like,
what career would be good foryou?
Number one for me waspodcasting.
No surprise.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
But In the 90s yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Okay, but it didn't exist.
But I'm curious of how do wekeep our eye on that human
aspect, how do we keep thatinfused into it?
So it's still part of who weare because, to your point,
through the pandemic, I feltlike the panic actually set us
up for generative AI showing up,cause it was like the way to
connect was to be on a screen sowe could have that human
(01:40):
connection.
And then it's almost like webecame numb to that and then it
was like the screen, the screenwas the connection.
So, joni, I'm curious on yourperspective on that and are you
seeing us kind of correctingthat, or are we still in that
murky space trying to navigatethrough that?
Speaker 4 (01:56):
I think we're still in that murky space and, in my
personal opinion, we need tohave more engagement with
psychologists, humanists, withthe developers of this kind of
technology to kind of get thatperspective so that they're
wrapped in together.
I don't know if that'shappening always.
I think that that should happenmore.
(02:16):
But the other piece of this isI think alongside you know,
Brian offers all these AItrainings in schools and AI
trainings to differentpopulations.
I think that what needs to gohand in hand with AI training is
emotional intelligence training, so that we are not overly
depending on the technology.
(02:37):
Again, the technology is greatif you use it as a tool, but
when it becomes a way of being,that's when you're losing your
humanity.
That's when you're losing youremotional intelligence.
And just to clarify what I meanwhen I say emotional
intelligence, it's aboutself-awareness, which means
understanding yourself at a deeplevel mentally, emotionally,
(02:59):
physically.
It's self-control.
Self-control means emotionalregulation, means being able to
understand your emotions enoughand being able to know when it's
appropriate to express them andknowing appropriate ways to
express them.
It's about social connectionand understanding how to have
(03:19):
human social connection, how tomake eye contact, how body
language works, which issomething we lost during COVID,
whenever you said this was theonly way we could connect.
I don't know if you rememberexperiencing even though Zoom
was the only way we couldconnect during COVID.
I know I always felt exhaustedafter Zoom and I didn't quite
(03:43):
feel a sense of connection.
Well, that's because somethinglike 80% of our communication is
body language, and if you'rejust a head in a box looking on
Zoom, you're missing theperson's body language.
You might be able to see facialexpressions, but body language
is how we understand each other,even more so than the words
(04:03):
that we speak.
And again, these are all thingsthat AI can't help us with,
because we need to do the workthat happens inside and if we're
doing that individual workself-awareness, self-control,
social connections and findingpurpose and meaning is the last
piece of emotional intelligence.
Being able to live your lifeaccording to what's important to
(04:27):
you, your values Again, theseare things we have to work on as
individuals and a lot of peopledon't know how to do that.
That's not being taught in ourschools.
It's not being taught to any ofus.
So I think that if ouremotional intelligence can grow
alongside technology, I believethat that would be a fantastic
(04:49):
merging into the future andgrowth, but I don't know if
that's happening right now.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
I have to ask Brian now.
I do something very similar.
I go out and integrate some ofthese AI tools for teachers, but
, being on the other side of thestate, sometimes it's very
different.
You know different districtsneed different things.
So when you're going out toschools, first, what are they
asking you for as far as AI?
And then part two of thequestion are you finding
yourself adding some of thishumanity and some of Joni's
(05:19):
philosophy and ideas into yourtrainings?
And it's okay if you say no.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
The answer is yes.
Speaker 5 (05:31):
I'm just curious If you're finding yourself.
I wanted you to put that intochat GPT and see what it said.
So last year I had two primaryrequests from school districts.
One is can you come and speakto our teachers about AI tools
and maybe show them some waysthey can begin integrating these
into planning and instruction?
And, interestingly, the secondrequest is our teachers have
(05:55):
requested that you come and showthem tools they can use to
catch kids who are cheating.
And, tony, I'm sure your AI 101sessions looked very similar to
mine.
I'm sure across the statethey're very similar.
Looking under the hood of AI,experiencing a few tools, flying
(06:17):
it to a few simple ways youcould use it to multiply your
effort.
But as far as the requests tospeak to staff about tools they
can use to catch kids cheatingwith AI, I always started it
this way, where I would walk inand the first thing I would say
to the staff is I would say Iunderstand, you want to know
(06:38):
tools you can use to catch kidscheating with AI, and everyone
would say yes and I would sayI'm going to tell you the best
way to do it.
Just lean in, lean in.
I'm going to tell you ready,know your kids and, as you can
imagine, there's always a fewfolks in that classroom who
(06:58):
aren't happy with that answerbecause they were looking for
what is the website or what isthe tool we can buy.
But the truth of the matter is,if you know your students, you
truly know your students.
You know their voice, you knowtheir style of writing, you know
their interests.
You know their voice, you knowtheir style of writing.
You know their interests, youknow their, their writing
ability.
(07:19):
You already know, even if it'sdeep down on an intuitive level,
if that student has createdthat work on their own or if
they use the AI tool.
So I guess, to answer yourquestion, do I incorporate any
of Joni's beliefs on cautiouslyusing AI into my sessions?
(07:39):
I do.
If I could build on that though.
So after we get over theinitial shock of the easiest way
to catch your kids cheatingwith AI is to know your students
Then what I suggest is perhapsit's time we begin changing what
classroom instruction andassessment looks like.
If it can easily be completedby AI, then that shouldn't be
(08:05):
the end.
Skill that we're trying tobuild in our students continues
to increase in capability as wemove towards AGI or artificial
general intelligence, with whicha lot of experts believe will
happen in just a few years.
Those simple low level DOK1tasks can and will be completed
(08:29):
by AI.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
And in reality we've been kind of saying in education
, dok1 tasks are not where it'sat anyway.
Research is showing that's nottransforming their thinking to
begin with.
So the fact that there's now atool to take that low level
stuff is kind of forcingeducation and educators in the
field to kind of reassess, likeyou're saying, reassess how I'm
(08:52):
teaching and how I'm assessing.
We can't continue.
Nor really should we have beenliving in DOK1 to begin with.
Speaker 5 (09:08):
I agree.
As a matter of fact, some saywell, the rollout of AI is
similar to when calculators wererolled out and it's similar to
schools being connected to theweb.
But I think, when we look back,it's going to be viewed as
something much larger, like theagricultural revolution or the
industrial revolution.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
It feels like it's going to disrupt the system.
Speaker 5 (09:24):
Finally, something will disrupt the system.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Because I felt for a while COVID was a great
opportunity for us to disruptthe system and we missed the
mark.
Speaker 5 (09:33):
We went right back to what we were doing.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
In fact, it was worse .
Like I don't know how else todescribe it.
Like we went literally back towe were making, we were having
momentum to move people out, wewere doing some open-ended
thinking, we were doing some ofthese things.
And then we went to COVID and,because we had to transition so
fast and I could maybe justspeak for the eastern part of
the state we went straight backto DOK1.
Can you fill this in?
(09:56):
Can you turn this in?
Can you do this?
Because I have to get this intomy classroom, I have to get
this done and I have to get itdone right now.
So I feel like in a lot of ways, it pulled us back.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
One significant change, though, is that now I
have six months of toilet paperstockpiled at my house, so
that's a big change for me.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
How have you not gotten through the six months?
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Just keep it going we stopped buying it.
You just kept buying it.
Every time we go to the store,we're buying toilet paper.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
We don't want to run into that situation again, so I
learned.
Well, with six people in yourhouse, I feel like.
My question for you, though, ishow do you two reconcile in
your house?
So my husband is also all aboutthe tech and all about like.
He's definitely like a gamer.
He's all about tech all thetime, and I like to be.
I grew up in Florida, so I needto be in the sun, sometimes,
(10:43):
like I just need to be outsideand I need to put my feet in the
dirt.
I need to be that.
Now.
I definitely have technologyand I will use it, but how do
the two of you reconcile that inyour house?
And then how does that notcause problems?
Speaker 4 (10:56):
I feel like Brian and I have enough commonality.
It's funny you said you need togo outside and put your feet in
the dirt, but Brian and I areboth nature people.
We both love to go sit in thewoods.
Oh, that's helpful.
So that's you know.
I think we have enoughcommonality in that regard and,
um, like I, like I said before,I think we both have respect for
(11:19):
what each other does and whatwe bring to what we do, that we
have an open mind when listeningto each other, even if we have
differing opinions.
So I think it's just that wehave a base of respect for each
other that helps us comesomewhere in the middle.
That's awesome.
Speaker 5 (11:38):
And I would add to that we both acknowledge that we
come from differentperspectives.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Right.
Speaker 5 (11:45):
And well, and you know, I guess I'd say we're also
driven by slightly differentfears or concerns.
Absolutely slightly differentfears or concerns.
Absolutely, I acknowledgeeverything she says about the
danger in offloading a lot ofour human tasks to AI, but on
(12:06):
the other hand, though, we can'tafford to not start using AI in
our planning and instruction,we can't afford to not begin
teaching our students how to useAI in an ethical and
responsible manner, because inthe corporate world already what
we're seeing is employers arelooking at new hires and, as a
(12:32):
mandatory requirement, as aprerequisite to being hired,
they're looking for people whocan work efficiently with AI as
a co-pilot.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
Except we found out that the number one thing
employers are actually lookingfor in new hires is emotional
intelligence.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Oh, that's quite the juxtaposition.
Yeah, that is reallyinteresting.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Wow, you know what I love?
I think that you two are amodel beyond, even beyond this
conversation, a model of like.
We don't have to always agree,we can have varying perspectives
, and how many conflicts havethere been in the world because
all people weren't sitting atthe table.
They didn't invite opposingthoughts to be like again that
(13:19):
respect where it's like I careabout you more than I care about
AI.
We can agree to disagree, andwhat a great model for education
in general that let's have thatdiscord, let's have that
conversation.
It doesn't change the value ofwho you are as a person and
something that I think in a lotof ways has been lost in our
(13:39):
society and be able to modelthat and bring it back through
this completely uniqueperspective that I think should
not be a unique perspective.
So thank you for coming on themost popular podcast in the
whole world so we can share thiswith people we're so happy to
be here.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Don't check our data, yeah.
Speaker 5 (13:58):
I'm proud to share that, while Joni was completely
against utilizing AI foranything early on, I have
convinced her to some degree ofthe value of using generative AI
tools in some limitedsituations.
So, when you go back to, how doyou two peacefully coexist in a
(14:20):
house?
There are times where, if we'retalking about our work and she
mentions that she has a task todo and it's something that is
tedious, something that seemslike this is going to take a
good bit of effort and time, Iwill often suggest can I show
you how you might use generativeAI for this?
(14:41):
And out of that mutual respectwe were talking about, she'll
often say, sure, why don't youshow me?
And a lot of times in the endshe'll say, wow, that was a very
good time saver.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
Or that it helped get me to where I wanted to be so I
could think about it in adifferent way.
For sure.
And I've also encouraged Brianto exercise his creative skills
and his own instinct andintuition when it comes to we
like to cook and we like to whenwe go out.
If we have a really uniquecocktail, we'd like to try and
(15:16):
recreate that cocktail at home.
That's a fun.
So whether it's a recipe orwhether it's a cocktail and I
really have always enjoyed ifI'm tasting something out at a
restaurant, I'm like I knowthere's this ingredient in this,
I know there's this, I canrecreate this at home.
And then I like to try and goand play with it and recreate it
.
And Brian's like why do you dothat?
You could just put it into chatGPT, it'll come up with it.
(15:38):
I'm like, because I want toexercise this skill and ability
and my own instinct andintuition and use my senses,
because that's an enjoyablehuman experience.
I don't want a machine todecide, and Brian has actually
taken up experimenting with somethings on his own and not going
to chat GPT for everything, butrather using his own senses and
(16:02):
sense of creativity to come upwith a cocktail, or you know a
simple recipe without using chatGPT.
Speaker 5 (16:10):
Yes, turns out sometimes I actually know that a
little bit of rosemary mighthelp this recipe.
Somewhere deep inside I knewthat and I didn't need a AI to
tell me that?
Speaker 2 (16:24):
That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Everybody needs a little rosemary in their life.
Well, look, you've got my vote.
I'm voting for the Stanfordticket for 2024.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Can we talk to them for hours?
Yeah, this is awesome.
I told you they were awesome.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Again, the word that's coming to my mind is
balance, and that's one thingthat we have not been hearing.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
And.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
I appreciate the balance that you're both
offering and saying these areboth important and that you know
that these two quote unquoteopposing things have equal value
and we need to hold them bothin our presence this entire time
.
So I am interested to actuallysee how this is going to play
out.
We would like to offer to youthe second to last closing
thought for or well, second andthird, I don't know.
(17:06):
Second, ish.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
The reason why it's the second is because Andrew
always has to be the one thatclose it.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Yeah, I don't know how it's going to go this time.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Joni, maybe another time you could come on and give
a little humanity to AndrewSeriously, if you would love to
provide therapy services forTony and I, but we'd have to
record it just so everybody elsecould hear.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
I'm on a limited Zoom here.
It's actually going to shutdown.
I'm so sorry.
40 minutes and we're done.
Yeah, so you have anything thatmaybe you'd like to add or say,
or you know something, inspiredyou as, you were sharing.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
I would say my final thought is that if you're
someone who uses AI to bediscerning about how you're
using it and what you're usingit for, and to be discerning
meaning, don't turn to it foreverything, but consider
particularly trying to utilizeyour own senses, your own
instinct, your own intuition toguide you in things that are
either intended to be fun andenjoyable or to exercise that
(18:13):
part of who you are, so thatyou're not again turning over
all your decision-making to AI,so just to be discerning.
Speaker 5 (18:21):
Fair enough, and I would say, if you are someone
who is fearful of losing yourhumanity when using AI or very
hesitant to adopt it, I guess Iwould ask you to just be open to
stepping into it.
If you use a calculator, didthat cause you to lose your
(18:42):
ability to do long division?
You may use the internet forresearch.
It doesn't mean you've lostyour ability to scan a book and
pull out relevant information.
It's just those things aregreat multipliers of effort, so
I would encourage you to give ita try.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
Cautiously.
Speaker 5 (19:03):
But enthusiastically.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
Maintaining your humanity.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
I can see a kid I'm getting your job done in a
quarter of the time I can see akid on the edge of the pool
being like yeah, jump in, honey.
No no no jump in.
It's too cold.
I don't know what to do.
Get a swim vest that wasamazing.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
That seems like how we usually end our podcasts.
Yeah, that's awesome.
You guys.
You are great.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
My biggest takeaway from this podcast is that we
absolutely had to find a way tohave video, because this has
been a very entertaining andlike so much like you said, joni
, about the body language, likeso much body language going on,
and you two are dynamites.
So thank you for all you'resharing and what I was hearing
from your closing thoughts isthat AI has a time and a place,
(19:56):
and for us to be able to add inthat humanity piece, to know the
difference and not just handover the reins, because that
comes at a cost how are wepresent as human beings in that
space?
And because we have so much toadd, we have so much value that
we can add just by being peoplethat will take this in a very
strong, unique position.
By being people that will takethis in a very strong, unique
position, I wanted to say, tolike solidify that that AI has
(20:16):
time and a place, like cruisecontrol until I was in Patrice's
car that does all these weirdthings it has like eyes and it
does it, but with old fashionedcruise control.
right, it had a time and a place.
I wasn't going to use cruisecontrol in town.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
It still does have it .
Okay, so here we go.
It still does have a time andplace.
Just because it slows down,because the car in front of it
is slowing down, doesn't meanit's not good, right, I've been
in the car when you're driving,it's better that the car is
doing it than you.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
That's a Brian car.
I want to drive the Joni carthat has for people.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
No, you want to drive the 1975 station wagon.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
I just want to sit back and drink my coffee, right.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
But my point is that you're not always going to be
using cruise control.
You're still, as a person atleast.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
I'm using it a lot 2024.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
We still have.
Oh, you know what this analogyworks.
Everyone liked it.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
It doesn't Sorry.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Alright, thank you so much for coming on to this
train wreck we call a podcast.
We appreciate your insights andwe want to remind all of our
listeners that you came to thebest spot.
We're going to keep bringingyou great information like this
and all of these insights, andmake sure that you follow and
send this to all of your friends, and even people you don't like
, because they need to hear thisperspective, wow.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
That's a glowing review I yes, thank you.
I just want to say thank youfor making the last meeting of
my day so enjoyable thank youreally great way to end the week
.
We appreciate you guys wellthank you.
Speaker 5 (21:45):
Thank you and andrew.
Well said.
So this is for the b-roll orthe closing credits.
Well said, that's why you havethe last word.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Thank you Brian?
No, but it's going to stop atlast word.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
No way it's going to stop at Brian.
I don't know when we see younext, but I'm getting you one of
these.
You get one of these podcastfamous stickers.
Speaker 5 (22:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
I'll even sign it.
Next time you're at pain, signit you, sir, get a selfie run,
run now.
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