December 3, 2024 • 42 mins
What if transitioning from a high-stress career could lead to a more balanced and fulfilling life? In our latest Chapter Blue episode, retired Colorado Springs police officer Adam Romine shares his journey from the frontline of law enforcement to a role in security management. Adam offers a glimpse into the lifestyle changes that come with trading the unpredictable nature of police work for a structured corporate environment, emphasizing the importance of relationship-building over enforcement. He also discusses his ongoing connection to the law enforcement community as a reserve officer, which allows him to stay engaged in meaningful ways, like participating in school visits and community events.
Navigating the shift to civilian life poses unique challenges, especially for those accustomed to the intense environment of law enforcement. Adam opens up about the adjustment period needed to acclimate to the corporate world, where the stakes and the culture differ vastly from what former officers are used to. He stresses the significance of nurturing a diverse social network to ease this transition and sheds light on the impact of law enforcement culture on social interactions outside the force. We discussed how maintaining a balanced life and prioritizing mental health can significantly influence one's well-being during this period of change.
Family and mental health are at the forefront of our conversation as Adam reflects on balancing his career with parenting older children and young twins. We talk about the unrealistic glamorization of parenting while serving as a law enforcement officer and the often overlooked sacrifices made. Our dialogue extends to the pressures of media scrutiny in policing and the essential role of leadership in supporting officers. Adam shares his perspective into leadership challenges within the police force, the importance of emotional intelligence, and offers advice to new officers on maintaining a grounded approach while extending grace to fellow team members. Tune in for an honest discussion of life behind the badge and beyond, packed with lessons for officers, families, and anyone intrigued by the world of law enforcement.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tyra Valeriano (00:01):
Welcome to Chapter Blue, the podcast where
we discuss the world of lawenforcement through an honest
conversation on tough orcontroversial topics, real
stories, perspectives andexperience from officers all
around the world.
Whether you're here forinsights on mental health,
self-care, work-life balance,getting into law enforcement,
getting out of law enforcement,or just trying to learn about
(00:21):
personal and professionalchallenges officers face every
day, you've come to the rightplace.
I'm your host, tyra Valeriano,and whether I'm going solo or
speaking with a guest, eachepisode will discuss different
aspects of life behind the badge.
Let's turn the page and stepinto Chapter Blue.
Welcome back to Chapter Blue.
(00:41):
I want to jump into today'spodcast by welcoming my next
guest, adam Romine.
He is retired out of ColoradoSprings.
I want to give him theopportunity to introduce himself
, his law enforcement backgroundas well as what he's doing
today.
So go ahead, adam.
Adam Romine (00:59):
I was a police officer.
Well, I guess I'm still areserve police officer, been in
law enforcement for 24 years,retired from the Colorado
Springs Police Department a fewyears ago.
While I was there, I got to doa lot of fun things.
I was a Homeland Security TaskForce signed to the Bomb Squad.
I was a training sergeantProbably one of the most fun
(01:22):
jobs I think you can have as acop for sure.
Um, after I retired, I did someDOD contracting for a little
while, but currently I'm runningsecurity for uh Denver Metro,
uh city, so for all their cityfacilities.
Um, just a lot of programmanagement in terms of uh
security and security personnel.
Tyra Valeriano (01:42):
Sounds like an interesting change.
How different is it from lawenforcement?
Adam Romine (01:47):
Yeah, I'll tell you .
One is the schedule, which isnice.
It's not shift work, which isfantastic.
I still get to work 410s, whichis amazing, but I don't have to
wear a vest, I'm not requiredto have a gun.
I have a desk job, which Ithought I would hate, but as I
got older and my body got morebeat up, I don't hate as much as
(02:09):
I used to, you know.
So, in terms of law enforcement,I think that the biggest,
biggest thing to wrap your brainaround is that you're you're
not the police anymore.
When you go into the securityand corporate security side of
things.
Obviously, still, the goal isto ensure safety of personnel
(02:31):
and guests and things like that,but I don't have to enforce
anything but rules now, and alot of that is just compliance
and making friends with peopleand trying to get them to.
Well, I guess that's like beinga cop.
Anyway, like you know, you useyour words and try to get people
to comply, as opposed to havingto use force to get people to
comply.
It's always worked out betterfor you and everybody else.
So, yeah, it's a lot better foryou.
(02:52):
Yeah, for sure.
Um, you know, and in today'sworld in law enforcement, it's
really important you know to doit that way.
So, um, yeah, overall it's beena been a great switch.
Like I said, I'm still areserve cop, which is nice
because you still have, I mean,you know this like once you
bleed blue, you can't stop,you'll have that in your blood
forever.
So I still get that camaraderiepiece and I just get to do a
(03:16):
lot of the fun events now.
So you know trunk or treats andI'll go to the schools and read
books and you know all thethings that, like as a cop, you
never really thought about doingand now I realize how important
and how much fun they are.
I just get to do them now.
Tyra Valeriano (03:30):
Very nice.
So what's your schedule like asa reserve officer?
Adam Romine (03:34):
I just do two shifts a month, you know, kind
of, and the beauty of that is Ican kind of base it around.
You know what, what life'sthrown at me.
My wife's still a policeofficer.
She's in investigations now, sothat that works out well.
But we also have one-year-oldtwins.
So you know that that creates alot, of, a lot of chaos, like
in terms of schedules.
(03:55):
So it's pretty flexible, it's.
It's two shifts a month minimum.
You know, if I want them towork more, I can.
We do a lot of stuff becauseit's Denver Metro, we still work
with DPD doing Broncos gamesand you know Taylor Swift
concerts and all the things, andwe're right next to Red Rocks
Amphitheater.
So we have all that, that stuffto do.
So, yeah, pretty, pretty laidback in terms of police work.
(04:19):
Very nice.
How long have you been married,if you don't mind me asking?
So I, this is a second marriagefor me.
I was married before.
I have two older kids, but I'vebeen with my current wife for
four years.
Tyra Valeriano (04:34):
Okay, and your older kids?
How old are they?
Adam Romine (04:39):
My older kids are 21 and 19.
So I literally started all theway over again, which actually
brings a lot of, a lot of um,you know I I apologize to my son
, he's 19.
I said, you know, I wish I knewthen what I know now, like I
would have been a much betterdad the first time.
Um, you know, I tell peopleit's not often in life that you
(05:02):
get a do-over, and not that youwant, I necessarily wanted a
do-over, but I kind of got one.
And so all those lessonslearned from the first time.
You know, when you go throughthings with your kids and you
learn what to worry about andwhat not to worry about, you
know, I find myself justlaughing at my boys a lot now,
just enjoying like the goofythings that they do.
(05:24):
You know, we're remodeling ahouse right now.
It finished framing theirbedroom and they have closets
right next to each other andthey're playing peekaboo between
the closets with each other.
So just things like that.
I'm just enjoying the heck outof.
Tyra Valeriano (05:36):
You know it's funny that you said that,
because I 100% can relate towhat you're saying.
I have my oldest son isactually going to be 18 in a
couple of weeks and I have a15-year-old and that's from a
previous marriage.
Before I was a police officerand now I have a nine-year-old.
But when I started with him itwas almost like a start over
(05:57):
because I was able to enjoy allof the time that I didn't get to
enjoy with my older kids and itreally is different.
I mean, it makes you feel badbecause you wish you would have
known, but how could you haveknown?
And it really just puts it intoperspective how much you missed
out on or how much you wish youwould have known to enjoy your
kids when they were little.
Adam Romine (06:14):
Yeah, and you know I it was pretty when I took this
position that I'm in now I toldhim.
I said you've got to know, likemy family's always going to be
number one.
I worked a lot when and I wason call a lot when my kids older
kids were young, and I justdon't want that anymore for them
.
Like I have zero intention ofmissing anything.
I didn't miss a singleappointment while my wife was
(06:35):
pregnant.
I've made it to every likedoctor's appointment that they
have.
Like I'm just not going to missanything now, I just want to
enjoy it.
Tyra Valeriano (06:44):
What is your perspective that you've been
able to take in now that youaren't in law enforcement, with
a schedule and fully employedwith the family aspect of what
you missed out on during lawenforcement versus now?
Adam Romine (06:57):
You know, I think and I don't know if it's a
perspective thing, I think youknow, as, as a police officer,
you spend so much time in aworld full of full of bad right,
I mean, nobody calls you on agood day when you're a cop.
You're always going tosomething that that you know
that just isn't going well forsomebody.
(07:19):
And then we also had to dealwith, you know, just not always
very good people, and so I thinkthe thing I am bringing to it
now is just realizing that howfull of good people the world is
.
You know, I get to see them now, I get to interact with them.
And you know, as a cop, I meanall your other cops, all good
(07:39):
people, but we have weird copingmechanisms, you know, to exist
inside of that really bad world.
And so now the people that Iwork with, nobody has to do that
.
So we all, you can joke aboutregular things.
You don't have to make light ofterrible things, you know, just
to try and get by.
So, and I think that probablythen bleeds over to my, to my
(08:01):
family life and my time with mykids.
And you know my, my son, is inthe Navy and he's in Oklahoma,
but I mean, still I find myselfjust texting him all the time.
Um, you know, hey, just want tolet you know I'm thinking about
you, just things like that.
I think I just it's bled overto my life.
Um, my, you know my home life alot more.
Tyra Valeriano (08:20):
Nice.
Um, I want to ask you if youstruggled at all with maybe not
so much your nervous system, butthe stress side of things.
When you got out, did you feelthat you just constantly needed
to be stressing about something,or did that kind of just go
away?
When you got out of lawenforcement, did it feel like
you were just relieved of theweight on your shoulders?
Adam Romine (08:42):
No, I, you know I was involved in, you know, in
Colorado Springs we had had somebig incidents here, um, and I
don't think you realize, andthen when you're on call for
years and years, you don'treally know how to turn off, Um,
and I I'm telling guys too nowthat are getting out of out of
law enforcement I'm like, giveyourself probably 12 to 18
(09:04):
months before you'll actuallyfeel relaxed.
You know it.
Just, you don't know how to notbe always turned on.
You know and ready for things.
But I even think that too, andI remember I had a conversation
several years ago.
You know just the way lawenforcement changed.
You know, and we all hated itas young cops taking, you know,
(09:25):
like a car that was broken intoovernight with no suspect
information and you had to gotake a report on it, and you
know, and you're sitting therein the dark trying to do your
report, but I don't think werealized at the time what a
great thing that was in terms oflike cortisol, like, uh, your
body's ability to kind ofregulate things, um, and I say
(09:48):
this too, like being a trainingsergeant, like we take these
young people, we send them tothe academy for a long time.
We do stress, inoculation and,um, you know RBT training and
all this kind of stuff.
Then we put you on the streetand, you know, cops, we
basically shoot them out of acannon for 10 hours.
We launch them in the air andsay go.
You know, cops, we basicallyshoot them out of a cannon for
10 hours.
We launch them in the air andsay go, because all we do is go
to in progress person's calls,like they don't get the downtime
(10:10):
to take a cold report with nosuspect information, just to
document something you know.
So all we've done is shoottheir, their stress level
through the ceiling and we keepthem like that almost all the
time.
So we don't know what that'sgoing to do, you know, in 20, 30
years to their bodies versus,you know.
So it's a kind of a weird mix.
(10:30):
Like you know, 34 years ago weweren't overly healthy, you know
, in the law enforcement family.
Like you know, the idea ofeating well and trying to sleep
and working out and all thosethings wasn't so much of a thing
, you know.
But we also had the downtime inour work.
Now they're much healthier interms of lifestyle, but they
don't have the downtime at work.
(10:51):
So how's that going to balance?
I don't know.
Tyra Valeriano (10:53):
Right.
So I want to go back to thewhole friend idea.
The reason why I asked youabout I don't know if it's the
nervous system, but cortisol isa pretty good example is because
when I got out I felt that Icouldn't connect with people
because obviously I moved to theother side of the world.
So I had to make friends and Iwas having trouble making
friends because, just like yousaid, you can't relate to people
(11:14):
who are outside if you don'treally have that kind of
connection with people outsideof law enforcement.
So I would be talking aboutthings that were related to the
job.
Nobody can relate to me.
I felt like nobody understoodthe jokes that I thought were
funny still funny to me were notfunny to everyone else.
But then there was this stressfactor of I just was looking to
(11:37):
stress out for nothing.
It's almost like I wanted that.
I couldn't help but feel like Iwanted that and I'm living in
paradise and there's literallynothing to worry about, but yet
I'm wanting that and I justcould not help that feeling and
I want to say now it's gotten alot better.
But that is something that alot of people don't realize that
they're going to face when theyget out of law enforcement.
So I was curious if youexperienced that.
Adam Romine (12:00):
I got really good advice as a young cop from a
family friend of ours who hadbeen a cop for a long time and
he told me.
He said, you know, cops wouldtend to only hang out with them,
with themselves, outside ofwork too.
You know, he said so doyourself a favor and don't just
surround yourself with thepolice all the time, because
(12:20):
then that's all you know, it'sall you talk about.
It's so I was very intentionalabout I had, you know, a group,
a group of friends for sure,that were police, but we were
pretty intentional about outsideof work, not talking about work
, talking about your family,talking about sports, whatever
it was.
And so then a lot of my rest ofmy friend group wasn't
necessarily the police, it was,you know, people from my gym and
(12:43):
things like that.
So when I left law enforcementI wasn't just without the police
friend group, without theability to have those jokes and
things like that.
Now I'll tell you the corporateworld, their sense of humor is
entirely different than lawenforcement and you'll hurt
everybody's feelings.
I figured that out reallyquickly and so I've gotten
(13:05):
better at that.
But you know, you do still seekthat a little bit, especially,
you know, if you do it longenough.
You know I would think anybodythat does it more than five
years probably has that kind ofembedded in their DNA where I
don't want to see you seekstress, but I don't know.
You just anticipate alwayssomething's going to happen and
so you're always looking aroundand it's hard to really kind of
(13:28):
relax, um.
But that's why I say you know,12 to 18 months away from it,
full time, I think gives you alittle bit more perspective and
the longer you go, obviously,the better you get at realizing.
It's kind of like not noteverybody in the world is bad.
Not something bad is alwaysgoing to happen either.
Tyra Valeriano (13:47):
You know, you're gonna.
Adam Romine (13:49):
you can just go sit at the beach and enjoy yourself
.
Um, you know, I I think that'sinteresting too for me is I
talked to um, like some of thepeople I work with and they go
on vacation, they like to have,you know, they want to go and do
and and and do, and they havetheir schedule and I got to do
all these things, whereas, youknow, my like, my wife and I, we
like to go and just sit downand not do anything.
(14:10):
You know, and I think that'sbecause you know you spend so
much time, and all of us, andjust go, go, go, go, go, so to
unplug and do it.
Well, it's nice just to sitdown with a book and some music
and that's all you got to worryabout.
Tyra Valeriano (14:24):
Right?
Um, how do you and your wifemanage home work-life balance
with two little ones?
How is that for you guys?
Adam Romine (14:32):
I mean, I'm not going to lie, it definitely is.
Uh, you got to hit a sweet spotin the schedule.
So, um, you know, for us, we,because we work tens, we kind of
offset um, you know, I takeFriday, or I take Friday,
saturday, Sunday off.
She has Saturday, sunday,monday off, so then we don't
need childcare on Mondays orFridays, which definitely helps,
(14:55):
um.
But then Tuesday throughThursday one of us goes to work
early, like we're there at 5.
Um, that way we can get off atthree and pick the boys up, and
then the other one drops themoff at daycare and then gets
home a little later.
So you know again, fortunately,you know, the investigative
unit she's in doesn't requirethat she be on call, which helps
(15:15):
a ton If I say that she's alsogoing to have surgery coming up
in December.
So then I get to do like afull-time dad thing, cause she
won't be able to pick the boysup, she can't do any of that
stuff.
So ask me again in a month andI'll tell you the schedule is
probably ridiculous right now.
I think we've found a goodbalance.
Tyra Valeriano (15:35):
That's good, and what have you kind of learned
in terms of now with your twolittle ones versus your older
kids when they were smaller?
How is the schedule for you now, since you were in law?
I'm assuming you were in lawenforcement at that time right,
never knew the difference.
Adam Romine (15:55):
That was just what I was.
Um, you know, I I think Ibefore I was not, like I said, I
wasn't as intentional abouttrying to make sure I was at
things.
Um, you know, I was very careerfocused and trying to, you know
, check all the boxes and setyourself up for promotion, all
the things you have to do, Um,you know.
So there's that piece of it isthat perspective definitely
(16:19):
makes a difference.
But, again, like I was on callall the time.
So you know, like, the idea ofmaking sure I was at practice in
the evenings and things likethat wasn't always a guarantee.
You know, you try when you can,but you know, just, it was a
different game back then.
You know, also, to their momdidn't work, which made a
(16:42):
difference in terms of how doyou balance the schedule out.
She could get them where theyneeded to be and all that kind
of stuff, you know.
But I also remember being oncall with with guys and there
was a call out and they were outto dinner and they'd leave and
have to call friends to comepick them up from a restaurant.
So you know, I've I've livedthat life and you know that's
(17:06):
just unfortunate.
You know, when I look back atthat I'm like just what a
terrible way to kind of gothrough life and putting your
family second that way.
And I don't want to.
I'm not trying to demeananybody, I mean, you know,
everybody has differentpriorities.
I just look at it now and think, man, like in 20 years or 30
years, when you don't have thatjob anymore, you still have your
family, you know.
Tyra Valeriano (17:29):
so make sure you have that relationship or those
relationships set up forsuccess going forward.
I like to bring up this topicand this is actually something I
talked about on my firstepisode was being a parent in
law enforcement and therealities of how difficult it
can be, because I think weglamorize and I'm not saying
that everybody does this, but Ithink it's glamorized to say,
hey, you can do it, encourageyou to be a police officer, you
(17:52):
can get through the academy andyou can be super cool dad or
super mom, and there's just thispretty picture.
That isn't real.
It's not a realisticperspective of what you're going
to experience as a parent inlaw enforcement.
So everybody knows what they'resigning up for, they know
they're going to miss holidays,birthdays, all of these things,
(18:12):
but the real struggle is how doyou deal with that and how do
you make time for your family,how do you make time for your
kids and when do we learn theselessons?
I kind of feel that now that wehave this at the forefront in
law enforcement, we're dealingwith mental health issues and
people wanting work-life balancemore as they go into their
(18:32):
career.
Are we going to fix that?
How is law enforcement going tochange that?
So I was just curious to seehow you were able to see the
difference between your olderkids compared to now, because
this is a conversation that'sbeing had now.
Right, we're trying to figureout how can officers have
work-life balance consideringthe circumstances that they're
facing today.
Adam Romine (18:54):
Yeah, and it's interesting.
You know you brought up likemissing the holidays and
birthdays and all that kind ofstuff.
But I mean, obviously if youmissed every Christmas, like
that would be remembered.
But you know you're going tolook back and you or your kids
are probably going to look backand not remember a specific day.
They're going to rememberpatterns, um, you know, and what
you were like in the eveningsand that kind of stuff.
(19:14):
And I always think that too,like I mean, you can give the
greatest gifts, but your kids,when they're older, will
remember, you know, vacationsand camping trips and
experiences, you know.
And so I I I think about thatmore than anything with my older
kids versus now is how muchmore engaged I am, I think, with
my, with my boys when I'm home,like after work and on weekends
(19:37):
and things like that.
With my boys when I'm home, likeafter working, on weekends and
things like that, um, you know,versus when my older kids were
like, and you know, like it'smentally draining a lot of times
, you know, and I investigatedthe child exploitation for a
long time, which like can justsuck the life out of you and you
know.
So then when you get home, likeyou do want to just stare at a
TV and like have, do somethingmindless, you know, and have and
(19:59):
have a time out, so which thentakes away the engagement from
your, from your family.
So you know, I think youbrought up the mental health
thing.
I think that's a big piece thatwe're recognizing as a society
now is the toll that that cantake on you if you don't, if, if
you're not proactive about it.
Um, you know, and that doesn'tmean you know, everybody wants
(20:22):
to go see a therapist.
You know, twice a year, thoughI encourage it, like I don't
think you realize the emotionalvomiting sometimes you need to
do until you get in the room andand just get it out.
Um, but being, I think, ifnothing else, intentional with
your time and not just going,especially I say this for young
men don't just go home and playvideo games, you know,
(20:43):
especially violent video games,because then you're really never
giving your mind a break.
I'm remodeling a house Likethere's something creative and
framing and drywall and pain andlaying floors, and like so I,
even if it's something like that, like find something you know,
and for me, like I it's, I saylike it's not helpful having
(21:04):
one-year-olds in there whileyou're trying to lay floors down
, on the other hand, like it'stime with them, you know, and I
still get to accomplishsomething, you know, but it has
nothing to do with work and Ican just laugh and have fun and
that kind of stuff.
So it's therapeutic withoutseeing a therapist.
So I think we're much, muchbetter at you know, in law
(21:25):
enforcement now, aboutrecognizing that that is a huge
piece.
You know that thatpost-traumatic stress whether
you want to call it PTSD, Idon't know, but it I think you'd
be foolish not to recognizethat a lot of what you do has
that stress and that traumainvolved in what it does to you
later.
So be intentional for sure.
Tyra Valeriano (21:47):
So would you say that you're a pretty big
advocate for having hobbies thataren't related to work?
Adam Romine (21:53):
Yeah, well, and it's hard to say.
I mean, I think there's a lotto be said for having hobbies
that have nothing to do withwork.
That being said, um, you know,like you've got to if, if going
shooting is like a de-stressorfor you and you can just kind of
go out there and think aboutthat little three inch dot
(22:13):
that's, you know, 50 yards outthere, if that's what's like
brings you back down, go for it.
If you don't, even if it's ifit's work, I guess you could
articulate that shootings workrelated.
But it's better than not havinganything.
You know, I was a CrossFitinstructor for a long time and
(22:33):
you know, I remember runnerscoming in and I was, you know,
and they're like oh, I need toget stronger.
For for this reason, and atsome point I'm like like
exercise is exercise, whatevergets you out the door and off
the chair, whether it's liftingweights or going running or
whatever, like it's better to dosomething than nothing.
So if your hobby happens to beshooting and that's what gives
you a stress relief, great, um,I think there's something to be
(22:57):
said for having somethingnothing work related.
That way you can completelyseparate it.
You know, but to each his own,I suppose you know.
Maybe it's music or playingchess or, like I love to cook.
That's probably a one for methat I really enjoy.
But you got to try some newthings to figure out what your
hobby could or might be.
Tyra Valeriano (23:18):
Right.
What do you think is the majorcause for the mental health
crisis that law enforcement isfacing right now?
I mean, there's obviously somany factors right where we know
we've been in the job, we knowthere's a lot of factors, but
over and over, I keep seeing thequestion what is it?
Is it really the traumaticexperiences that we're seeing?
Is that really what's causingit?
(23:39):
Or is it, you know, the job andthe stress that's affecting the
home life, that making peoplefeel some type of way?
What do you think is a mainfactor in what the mental health
struggle is with policeofficers?
Adam Romine (23:55):
I think a big piece of it now is the microscope.
I think a big piece of it nowis the microscope.
You know, we had the abilitybefore, like to make mistakes
and learn from them like withyour peers or your bosses or
something like that and moveforward and just use that as a
learning lesson.
Now I mean and don't get mewrong I think body cameras are
(24:22):
probably one of the bestinventions ever in law
enforcement.
But everything now goes to themedia and then the media gets to
paint their own picture andthen that becomes society's
reality, and so you don't havethe ability to just make a
mistake and learn anymore.
And so I think, aside from justthat work stress is if I screw
something up, the whole world isgoing to see it and you think
about like man, they like.
(24:43):
It leaves no room for error.
It leaves no room to be a humanyou know, and no other job, I
mean hell, even like surgeonshave a very particular you know
thing that they have to do inwhich people could die at any
minute, but they don't broadcastthat to the world like they do
in law enforcement.
So even then they have theability to make a mistake and
(25:05):
correct it and move forward andreally nobody else would know.
So I think that is probably oneof the bigger things that
nobody wants to talk about ishow that media scrutiny and
being in the spotlight all thetime is really messing with
people and it takes away yourability to be a person.
Tyra Valeriano (25:25):
I feel like when I was in law enforcement, let's
say, for example, I had a casewhere my body camera was spewed
all over the internet and ofcourse there's just nobody's
going to ever see what's outsideof that one facing part.
Right, you can be sayingwhatever you're saying about the
case or the scene, but nobody'sgoing to see what's happening
around you.
They're going to hear whatyou're saying and once that gets
(25:45):
out there and people developtheir opinion about what you're
doing, how you're doing your job.
They don't know the law.
They don't understand the law.
You know you're feeling like youdid something wrong.
So not only is it that you aremessing up and everybody's going
to see it, even when you're notmessing up, and you're feeling
like you did because noweverybody has an opinion and you
(26:05):
can't say anything.
You're not allowed to go outthere in public and say, hey,
this is why I did what I did.
This is the law, and you know,put it out there and give your
side.
Did you have that strugglewhere you weren't allowed to say
your piece because we're justnot allowed to say anything
about it?
Adam Romine (26:21):
Yeah, I mean it's pretty odd and it's been made
clear that you know you're notsupposed to give your opinions
like to media and things likethat.
Obviously you can share it withpeople, that you know, but you
also don't want to, you know, godown the troll hole on social
media and be reading people'scomments, because then it just
fires you up even more.
You know, I think what really,what cops are looking for is
(26:46):
leadership staff that will betheir champion, you know, and
they'll stand, and we seeexamples of it around the
country where, you know chiefsor mayors or whatever get in
front of the cameras and say,hey, enough of the nonsense,
here's what really happened.
Um, and a hundred percent,believe my, my officers did the
right thing.
Um, you know.
But you know again, like youtalked about, like all the world
(27:07):
sees is what they see in thatlittle tiny lens.
not, you know, what led up to it, not what you're hearing in the
background, the history ofthose people, um, you know any
interactions you'd had with thembefore or similar types of
situation, all that kind ofstuff.
And it's interesting, like Iremember I was in a shooting in
2019 and we had had body camerasfor a few years, but they never
(27:32):
they it was a department policyat the time that you weren't
allowed to watch the camerafootage, even like after your
interview was done and all thatkind of stuff.
And then I had my shooting andafter my interview was over,
they finally changed that.
That the uh investigationsergeant said hey, um, just want
to let you know.
(27:52):
You're the first one Like,we've got this in place.
Now that your interview is done, you can come watch your video
if you want, you know, from thebody camera in place.
Now that your interview is done, you can come watch your video,
if you want, you know, from thebody camera.
And I didn't do it and he wasmad Um, he's like man, I spent
so much time trying to get thisin place, but what I didn't want
was to second guess myself thenext time because maybe I saw
(28:13):
something different on the video.
Like I knew what my reality waswhen I was there and I knew all
the things that led up to, youknow, do that shooting and I
didn't want to watch a video ofit and think, oh damn it, like
how did I not see that?
And then I find myself in thatsituation again next time and I
and I wait too long to make adecision.
(28:33):
You know that cost me my lifeor somebody else their life, my
life or somebody else's life.
So you know, that's why Ididn't go into the world of
watching the video and basingeverything based on just what's
on that video.
Tyra Valeriano (28:46):
So when that policy was in place, was it
accessible for public record?
Was the media able to requestit, or how did that work for
your agency?
Adam Romine (28:58):
Yeah, so we really, at the time, were not releasing
any body cam video.
I mean, they could do.
They call it a CORA requestit's a Colorado Open Records Act
but they would have to.
Whoever was requesting wouldhave to show the reason why they
needed the video, why it was inthe public's interest or
something like that.
But if it was still going,there's potential for it to go
(29:21):
to court or whatever like that.
It's still evidence, so theywouldn't release it.
We release a lot more camerafootage now.
They're proactive about it andI think it's the right thing to
do.
You know, I've said this foryears.
Like you know, we preach about,you know, being open to the
public, but we weren't alwaysvery open with our employees.
(29:42):
You know our employees werefinding out about things on the
news and you're like you know,why didn't they tell us before
they told the world?
Um, so they're getting a lotbetter now, I think, in general
about one being open to youremployees and they hey, here's
what's going on, this is goingto go out to the media.
So if you get questions, youkind of see it coming.
But, um, you know, also withthe camera footage, I'm glad
(30:05):
that they released the footage.
I also just wish there was amessage along with it other than
the very factual um, you know,and then this happened, and then
this happened, and then thishappened.
Like let's get out in front ofit and say, hey, you know, our
guys did a great job.
Here's what they dealt with.
This is what we train.
This is how they responded.
Tyra Valeriano (30:25):
I have seen it now, more now than ever, where
leaders are coming out andthey're making these press
conferences for their officers,but in a lot of times I still I
see videos circulating on theinternet and I'm wondering where
is the leadership that's goingto back up their officer?
Because a lot of the times theofficers in the right, of course
(30:45):
, they're in the wrong sometimestoo.
But even with that, you can goout there and tell the public
hey, you know, we acknowledgethis mistake and this is what
we're doing.
The transparency has to workboth ways, because if you're
just putting that video outthere and saying, hey, public,
you can see everything we'redoing, but yet they still don't
understand what we're doing.
It's not doing any justice forthe officer or the agency.
Adam Romine (31:07):
And I think you know, if we are going to take a
lesson from politics is try andcontrol the narrative.
You know, I mean you see itlike at the, at the national
level.
You know if there's somethingcoming up, they try to get out
in front of it and say here,here's what happened, here's
what's happening and this is why.
So I think that's probably ournext step.
(31:28):
I think in law enforcement weneed leaders who will try and
get out and control thenarrative.
You know, again, sometimes youhave one that just is not afraid
of of the politics and whatpeople think, and all that kind
of stuff.
They're department's champion,and I think you're going to have
passionate, dedicated employeeswhen you have those kinds of
(31:50):
leaders.
The departments where you don'thave that are the ones people
leave.
And so I think leaders have toask themselves that that
question too is what's moreimportant to me, Like how, what,
what is going to allow me tosleep at night?
Am I a champion for my officerswhen they're in the right, or
am I going to play the politics?
Tyra Valeriano (32:12):
Yeah, and in your experience, what would you
say?
You've seen change inleadership over the last maybe
five years.
Adam Romine (32:21):
I mean I don't see leadership going in a good
direction as a general rule inlaw enforcement.
I think it's very much the PCworld that we live in that they
did, rather than, you know,accidentally saying something
that is going to make somebodyupset.
They just don't say anything atall.
So that's why I think when yousee one stand up and make a
(32:42):
statement in front of a camera,it's such an anomaly because it
doesn't happen.
We are promoting people who aremanagers and not leaders, and I
think in like a military,paramilitary types of
organization, like you needleaders I'm not saying you don't
need managers and maybe you canteach leaders to manage, but
(33:02):
you can't necessarily teachmanagers to lead.
So I you know somewhere in that,in that testing process, we've
lost the ability to identifythose characteristics that you
can't, that are harder to test.
For you know, we can do policyreview and we can say you know,
do you know this statute betterthan the next guy?
Okay, you're up, but how do weget people to follow you?
(33:25):
You know, how do you createthat followership?
So I don't know, and I'm not,the good old boy club was not
necessarily the way to do iteither, you know, because then
we were promoting people justout of friendship, I think some
type of personal involvement inthat and saying, oh, like this
person deserves to get promotedbecause of these key things that
that are needed as opposed tojust doing it all by computer.
(33:48):
And what is?
What is the number of crunch,say, at the end.
Tyra Valeriano (33:52):
I agree with everything that you're saying.
I also think that, with the waythings are in policing, it's
very hard to adjust leadershipwhere it's at right now because
we have fallen so far behind.
So, for example, I probably cancount on all of my fingers how
many agencies have newerofficers than experienced
(34:12):
officers.
So not only are they dealingwith the fact that they don't
have experience in their agency,but they're promoting these
people to be leaders.
So maybe they have some leadercharacteristics, but they're not
prepared with the experience tobe in a leadership position.
Adam Romine (34:29):
If you want to be a sergeant, like you have to have
a minimum of, let's say, eightyears in law enforcement before
you can test.
Because you know, I I've alwaysthought this about like cops
too.
Like you're one and two ormaybe even one year one, you
don't know anything.
You realize that, you're tryingto figure it out.
You're like two through five.
You think you're hot and youknow everything, you can do
(34:52):
everything, and you're the manafter year five.
You're like no, you know what,I've got a lot to learn still.
So you're five to 10.
I think you really hone yourcraft and you learn a lot.
And then 10 to 20 is like yoursweet spot, where you have a ton
of knowledge, ton of experienceand you're really still
passionate about working.
After 20, you start seeing thebackside of things and
retirement and all that kind ofstuff.
But, um, you know.
(35:13):
So I don't know that you canlike speed it up per se, but I
think you know we talk a lotabout emotional intelligence for
young officers, like when we'rein hiring.
I think it wouldn't be a badthing for law enforcement
leadership to stop and do someself-reflection and think, okay,
you know, where am I missingthe mark and improve themselves
(35:34):
and then people are going tocome with them.
You know, I had a commanderhe's a chief now but um, he, he
struggled, um he like we were inpatrol at the time his division
was the last one that builtliterally midnight shifts filled
everywhere else in the city andhe still had day shift spots
open during shift picks.
And so you know, I remember,after the year started he sat
(35:56):
down with me and one of theother sergeants.
He goes like what happened,like what created this problem,
and he wanted honest feedback.
We gave him honest feedback and, to his credit, he made
legitimate, great changes as aleader, you know.
So I think maybe that's what weneed is some internal self
reflection and figuring out.
What do I need to do?
(36:16):
You know, we can give signingbonuses, we can do all these
things like to try and attractpeople.
How do we keep people and howdo we create that followership?
And that starts at thatleadership level.
Tyra Valeriano (36:26):
So not a lot of people are a fan of hiring from
outside the agency forleadership roles.
But, just like I had asked youbefore, considering the
circumstances that we're facingtoday, do you think that it's
more reasonable to considerpeople who do have that
leadership experience to comefrom outside into an agency, or
do you still feel like it shouldall be done within the agency?
Adam Romine (36:49):
Yeah, I think it probably depends on the dynamics
of the agency.
You know so, like my department, you know it's close to 800
cops, like it's a pretty bigagency.
It's not hard to identify goodleaders in a group that size.
You know, um, the departmentwhere I'm a reserve is a
department of eight.
You know so when you try to dopromotions inside of the
(37:11):
department at eight, all of asudden your, your pool is a lot
more limited.
So would it be beneficial for adepartment like that to say, hey
, like I really need, like astrong Lieutenant to help me.
You know, if I'm the chief andI want to go to, let's say, um,
you know, the FBI nationalAcademy, who do I leave in
charge of this department?
And maybe you don't have thatperson, um, on your in your
(37:34):
agency, so you have to.
So I think it probably.
I don't think you can say, youknow, definitely go outside or
definitely don't.
Probably depends on thedynamics.
You know again, the more peopleyou have to choose from, the
more likely you are to havethose resources and those types
of people available.
You know, but maybe not, Idon't know.
It just kind of depends.
Tyra Valeriano (37:55):
I feel like that's another reason why
there's such a problem with themental health aspect is just
because your leaders that arethere now just don't know what
to do.
They don't know how to help theofficers, the resources are
very limited and just all thechaos that's going on within
agencies.
Now you know you have alieutenant that may have maybe
(38:16):
four or five years experience onthe street maybe not even on
the street, just total lawenforcement experience and
they're in this role and youknow people are having real
dilemmas on patrol and they'rehaving real struggles, you know,
with their career or their life, and you have this person in
charge that just doesn't knowwhat the heck is going on.
Adam Romine (38:33):
Yeah, and they're at least proactive in saying,
hey, we like this is somethingwe need to address as the mental
health side of things.
But you have a huge group ofpolice leaders who never policed
in a in a world, like our youngcops do now with the media
scrutiny, with the body cameras,with, like the going only
(38:54):
toprogress calls and I say thisfrom like a larger agency but
you know they never policed inthat world.
So how can you it's really hardthen to relate to a young cop
who is dealing with theseproblems that you never dealt
with before personally.
So, yeah, that's, I don't knowhow you fix that either the
(39:14):
other than to say, hey, um,everybody at staff level,
everybody gets to start workingsome patrol shifts and see what
this world's like for these guys, so that then you can help them
address these problems or atleast better understand where
they're coming from.
Tyra Valeriano (39:28):
Right, all right .
Well, we are running out oftime.
There is a question that I wantto ask you.
I ask all of my guests, andthat is what would, what advice
would you give your rookie self,if there was any advice to give
?
Adam Romine (39:42):
Um, I, I would give the same advice that I got from
the officer that I knew growingup and it's the same one that I
gave to every cop that Itrained Um, and all of them that
, like, when I was the sergeantin charge of it is have a life
outside of this job.
Like, don't let it define you.
We're very fortunate that wefound a career that we're
(40:04):
passionate about and can trulymake a difference, but you can't
let it define you.
Like, if you're a dad and ahusband, be a dad and a husband
who's also a police officer.
Don't be a police officer who'salso a dad and a husband.
So I think that would be theadvice I give is just, you know,
really focus on like, figuringout early what your priorities
(40:24):
are and have a life outside ofthis, this role you know we
always talk about.
Keep your head on a swivel andbe aware of your surroundings
and things like that, but don'tforget to have fun.
You know, I I started all my mylineups that way.
Like you know, at the end ofbriefing, before we go out for
the day, the last thing I toldeverybody is like, let's go have
(40:45):
some fun.
So don't be afraid to stop andenjoy things where you can, and
for the public in general.
Like these guys are all human,they're going to make mistakes.
Give them some grace.
Let them learn they're going tobe better for it and then for
that you're going to get abetter police officer.
Tyra Valeriano (41:03):
Yeah, that's great advice.
I appreciate that and I'mpretty sure that a lot of the
listeners can resonate with that.
Adam, thank you so much foryour time.
I appreciate you signing upwith me and us doing this
podcast together.
You have a lot of experienceand knowledge and I think that a
lot of people will benefit fromsome of the perspectives that
you shared today.
If you guys have any questionsabout today's podcast, you can
reach out to me.
(41:23):
Adam is not available for anykind of contact, but I'm sure if
you guys have any questions, Ican pass them over to him and
he'd happily be able to answerthose for you guys.
But until then, everybody, staysafe and we'll see you on the
next one.
Thank you for joining me onChapter Blue.
If you enjoyed today's episode,be sure to follow and tag me on
social media and share withyour friends and fellow officers
(41:45):
.
If you're interested in joiningan episode, I'd love for you to
be a part of the conversation.
Until next time, stay safe,take care of yourself and
remember you're never alone inthis journey.
Welcome to Chapter Blue, the podcast where
we discuss the world of lawenforcement through an honest
conversation on tough orcontroversial topics, real
stories, perspectives andexperience from officers all
around the world.
Whether you're here forinsights on mental health,
self-care, work-life balance,getting into law enforcement,
getting out of law enforcement,or just trying to learn about
(00:21):
personal and professionalchallenges officers face every
day, you've come to the rightplace.
I'm your host, tyra Valeriano,and whether I'm going solo or
speaking with a guest, eachepisode will discuss different
aspects of life behind the badge.
Let's turn the page and stepinto Chapter Blue.
Welcome back to Chapter Blue.
(00:41):
I want to jump into today'spodcast by welcoming my next
guest, adam Romine.
He is retired out of ColoradoSprings.
I want to give him theopportunity to introduce himself
, his law enforcement backgroundas well as what he's doing
today.
So go ahead, adam.
Adam Romine (00:59):
I was a police officer.
Well, I guess I'm still areserve police officer, been in
law enforcement for 24 years,retired from the Colorado
Springs Police Department a fewyears ago.
While I was there, I got to doa lot of fun things.
I was a Homeland Security TaskForce signed to the Bomb Squad.
I was a training sergeantProbably one of the most fun
(01:22):
jobs I think you can have as acop for sure.
Um, after I retired, I did someDOD contracting for a little
while, but currently I'm runningsecurity for uh Denver Metro,
uh city, so for all their cityfacilities.
Um, just a lot of programmanagement in terms of uh
security and security personnel.
Tyra Valeriano (01:42):
Sounds like an interesting change.
How different is it from lawenforcement?
Adam Romine (01:47):
Yeah, I'll tell you .
One is the schedule, which isnice.
It's not shift work, which isfantastic.
I still get to work 410s, whichis amazing, but I don't have to
wear a vest, I'm not requiredto have a gun.
I have a desk job, which Ithought I would hate, but as I
got older and my body got morebeat up, I don't hate as much as
(02:09):
I used to, you know.
So, in terms of law enforcement,I think that the biggest,
biggest thing to wrap your brainaround is that you're you're
not the police anymore.
When you go into the securityand corporate security side of
things.
Obviously, still, the goal isto ensure safety of personnel
(02:31):
and guests and things like that,but I don't have to enforce
anything but rules now, and alot of that is just compliance
and making friends with peopleand trying to get them to.
Well, I guess that's like beinga cop.
Anyway, like you know, you useyour words and try to get people
to comply, as opposed to havingto use force to get people to
comply.
It's always worked out betterfor you and everybody else.
So, yeah, it's a lot better foryou.
(02:52):
Yeah, for sure.
Um, you know, and in today'sworld in law enforcement, it's
really important you know to doit that way.
So, um, yeah, overall it's beena been a great switch.
Like I said, I'm still areserve cop, which is nice
because you still have, I mean,you know this like once you
bleed blue, you can't stop,you'll have that in your blood
forever.
So I still get that camaraderiepiece and I just get to do a
(03:16):
lot of the fun events now.
So you know trunk or treats andI'll go to the schools and read
books and you know all thethings that, like as a cop, you
never really thought about doingand now I realize how important
and how much fun they are.
I just get to do them now.
Tyra Valeriano (03:30):
Very nice.
So what's your schedule like asa reserve officer?
Adam Romine (03:34):
I just do two shifts a month, you know, kind
of, and the beauty of that is Ican kind of base it around.
You know what, what life'sthrown at me.
My wife's still a policeofficer.
She's in investigations now, sothat that works out well.
But we also have one-year-oldtwins.
So you know that that creates alot, of, a lot of chaos, like
in terms of schedules.
(03:55):
So it's pretty flexible, it's.
It's two shifts a month minimum.
You know, if I want them towork more, I can.
We do a lot of stuff becauseit's Denver Metro, we still work
with DPD doing Broncos gamesand you know Taylor Swift
concerts and all the things, andwe're right next to Red Rocks
Amphitheater.
So we have all that, that stuffto do.
So, yeah, pretty, pretty laidback in terms of police work.
(04:19):
Very nice.
How long have you been married,if you don't mind me asking?
So I, this is a second marriagefor me.
I was married before.
I have two older kids, but I'vebeen with my current wife for
four years.
Tyra Valeriano (04:34):
Okay, and your older kids?
How old are they?
Adam Romine (04:39):
My older kids are 21 and 19.
So I literally started all theway over again, which actually
brings a lot of, a lot of um,you know I I apologize to my son
, he's 19.
I said, you know, I wish I knewthen what I know now, like I
would have been a much betterdad the first time.
Um, you know, I tell peopleit's not often in life that you
(05:02):
get a do-over, and not that youwant, I necessarily wanted a
do-over, but I kind of got one.
And so all those lessonslearned from the first time.
You know, when you go throughthings with your kids and you
learn what to worry about andwhat not to worry about, you
know, I find myself justlaughing at my boys a lot now,
just enjoying like the goofythings that they do.
(05:24):
You know, we're remodeling ahouse right now.
It finished framing theirbedroom and they have closets
right next to each other andthey're playing peekaboo between
the closets with each other.
So just things like that.
I'm just enjoying the heck outof.
Tyra Valeriano (05:36):
You know it's funny that you said that,
because I 100% can relate towhat you're saying.
I have my oldest son isactually going to be 18 in a
couple of weeks and I have a15-year-old and that's from a
previous marriage.
Before I was a police officerand now I have a nine-year-old.
But when I started with him itwas almost like a start over
(05:57):
because I was able to enjoy allof the time that I didn't get to
enjoy with my older kids and itreally is different.
I mean, it makes you feel badbecause you wish you would have
known, but how could you haveknown?
And it really just puts it intoperspective how much you missed
out on or how much you wish youwould have known to enjoy your
kids when they were little.
Adam Romine (06:14):
Yeah, and you know I it was pretty when I took this
position that I'm in now I toldhim.
I said you've got to know, likemy family's always going to be
number one.
I worked a lot when and I wason call a lot when my kids older
kids were young, and I justdon't want that anymore for them
.
Like I have zero intention ofmissing anything.
I didn't miss a singleappointment while my wife was
(06:35):
pregnant.
I've made it to every likedoctor's appointment that they
have.
Like I'm just not going to missanything now, I just want to
enjoy it.
Tyra Valeriano (06:44):
What is your perspective that you've been
able to take in now that youaren't in law enforcement, with
a schedule and fully employedwith the family aspect of what
you missed out on during lawenforcement versus now?
Adam Romine (06:57):
You know, I think and I don't know if it's a
perspective thing, I think youknow, as, as a police officer,
you spend so much time in aworld full of full of bad right,
I mean, nobody calls you on agood day when you're a cop.
You're always going tosomething that that you know
that just isn't going well forsomebody.
(07:19):
And then we also had to dealwith, you know, just not always
very good people, and so I thinkthe thing I am bringing to it
now is just realizing that howfull of good people the world is
.
You know, I get to see them now, I get to interact with them.
And you know, as a cop, I meanall your other cops, all good
(07:39):
people, but we have weird copingmechanisms, you know, to exist
inside of that really bad world.
And so now the people that Iwork with, nobody has to do that
.
So we all, you can joke aboutregular things.
You don't have to make light ofterrible things, you know, just
to try and get by.
So, and I think that probablythen bleeds over to my, to my
(08:01):
family life and my time with mykids.
And you know my, my son, is inthe Navy and he's in Oklahoma,
but I mean, still I find myselfjust texting him all the time.
Um, you know, hey, just want tolet you know I'm thinking about
you, just things like that.
I think I just it's bled overto my life.
Um, my, you know my home life alot more.
Tyra Valeriano (08:20):
Nice.
Um, I want to ask you if youstruggled at all with maybe not
so much your nervous system, butthe stress side of things.
When you got out, did you feelthat you just constantly needed
to be stressing about something,or did that kind of just go
away?
When you got out of lawenforcement, did it feel like
you were just relieved of theweight on your shoulders?
Adam Romine (08:42):
No, I, you know I was involved in, you know, in
Colorado Springs we had had somebig incidents here, um, and I
don't think you realize, andthen when you're on call for
years and years, you don'treally know how to turn off, Um,
and I I'm telling guys too nowthat are getting out of out of
law enforcement I'm like, giveyourself probably 12 to 18
(09:04):
months before you'll actuallyfeel relaxed.
You know it.
Just, you don't know how to notbe always turned on.
You know and ready for things.
But I even think that too, andI remember I had a conversation
several years ago.
You know just the way lawenforcement changed.
You know, and we all hated itas young cops taking, you know,
(09:25):
like a car that was broken intoovernight with no suspect
information and you had to gotake a report on it, and you
know, and you're sitting therein the dark trying to do your
report, but I don't think werealized at the time what a
great thing that was in terms oflike cortisol, like, uh, your
body's ability to kind ofregulate things, um, and I say
(09:48):
this too, like being a trainingsergeant, like we take these
young people, we send them tothe academy for a long time.
We do stress, inoculation and,um, you know RBT training and
all this kind of stuff.
Then we put you on the streetand, you know, cops, we
basically shoot them out of acannon for 10 hours.
We launch them in the air andsay go.
You know, cops, we basicallyshoot them out of a cannon for
10 hours.
We launch them in the air andsay go, because all we do is go
to in progress person's calls,like they don't get the downtime
(10:10):
to take a cold report with nosuspect information, just to
document something you know.
So all we've done is shoottheir, their stress level
through the ceiling and we keepthem like that almost all the
time.
So we don't know what that'sgoing to do, you know, in 20, 30
years to their bodies versus,you know.
So it's a kind of a weird mix.
(10:30):
Like you know, 34 years ago weweren't overly healthy, you know
, in the law enforcement family.
Like you know, the idea ofeating well and trying to sleep
and working out and all thosethings wasn't so much of a thing
, you know.
But we also had the downtime inour work.
Now they're much healthier interms of lifestyle, but they
don't have the downtime at work.
(10:51):
So how's that going to balance?
I don't know.
Tyra Valeriano (10:53):
Right.
So I want to go back to thewhole friend idea.
The reason why I asked youabout I don't know if it's the
nervous system, but cortisol isa pretty good example is because
when I got out I felt that Icouldn't connect with people
because obviously I moved to theother side of the world.
So I had to make friends and Iwas having trouble making
friends because, just like yousaid, you can't relate to people
(11:14):
who are outside if you don'treally have that kind of
connection with people outsideof law enforcement.
So I would be talking aboutthings that were related to the
job.
Nobody can relate to me.
I felt like nobody understoodthe jokes that I thought were
funny still funny to me were notfunny to everyone else.
But then there was this stressfactor of I just was looking to
(11:37):
stress out for nothing.
It's almost like I wanted that.
I couldn't help but feel like Iwanted that and I'm living in
paradise and there's literallynothing to worry about, but yet
I'm wanting that and I justcould not help that feeling and
I want to say now it's gotten alot better.
But that is something that alot of people don't realize that
they're going to face when theyget out of law enforcement.
So I was curious if youexperienced that.
Adam Romine (12:00):
I got really good advice as a young cop from a
family friend of ours who hadbeen a cop for a long time and
he told me.
He said, you know, cops wouldtend to only hang out with them,
with themselves, outside ofwork too.
You know, he said so doyourself a favor and don't just
surround yourself with thepolice all the time, because
(12:20):
then that's all you know, it'sall you talk about.
It's so I was very intentionalabout I had, you know, a group,
a group of friends for sure,that were police, but we were
pretty intentional about outsideof work, not talking about work
, talking about your family,talking about sports, whatever
it was.
And so then a lot of my rest ofmy friend group wasn't
necessarily the police, it was,you know, people from my gym and
(12:43):
things like that.
So when I left law enforcementI wasn't just without the police
friend group, without theability to have those jokes and
things like that.
Now I'll tell you the corporateworld, their sense of humor is
entirely different than lawenforcement and you'll hurt
everybody's feelings.
I figured that out reallyquickly and so I've gotten
(13:05):
better at that.
But you know, you do still seekthat a little bit, especially,
you know, if you do it longenough.
You know I would think anybodythat does it more than five
years probably has that kind ofembedded in their DNA where I
don't want to see you seekstress, but I don't know.
You just anticipate alwayssomething's going to happen and
so you're always looking aroundand it's hard to really kind of
(13:28):
relax, um.
But that's why I say you know,12 to 18 months away from it,
full time, I think gives you alittle bit more perspective and
the longer you go, obviously,the better you get at realizing.
It's kind of like not noteverybody in the world is bad.
Not something bad is alwaysgoing to happen either.
Tyra Valeriano (13:47):
You know, you're gonna.
Adam Romine (13:49):
you can just go sit at the beach and enjoy yourself
.
Um, you know, I I think that'sinteresting too for me is I
talked to um, like some of thepeople I work with and they go
on vacation, they like to have,you know, they want to go and do
and and and do, and they havetheir schedule and I got to do
all these things, whereas, youknow, my like, my wife and I, we
like to go and just sit downand not do anything.
(14:10):
You know, and I think that'sbecause you know you spend so
much time, and all of us, andjust go, go, go, go, go, so to
unplug and do it.
Well, it's nice just to sitdown with a book and some music
and that's all you got to worryabout.
Tyra Valeriano (14:24):
Right?
Um, how do you and your wifemanage home work-life balance
with two little ones?
How is that for you guys?
Adam Romine (14:32):
I mean, I'm not going to lie, it definitely is.
Uh, you got to hit a sweet spotin the schedule.
So, um, you know, for us, we,because we work tens, we kind of
offset um, you know, I takeFriday, or I take Friday,
saturday, Sunday off.
She has Saturday, sunday,monday off, so then we don't
need childcare on Mondays orFridays, which definitely helps,
(14:55):
um.
But then Tuesday throughThursday one of us goes to work
early, like we're there at 5.
Um, that way we can get off atthree and pick the boys up, and
then the other one drops themoff at daycare and then gets
home a little later.
So you know again, fortunately,you know, the investigative
unit she's in doesn't requirethat she be on call, which helps
(15:15):
a ton If I say that she's alsogoing to have surgery coming up
in December.
So then I get to do like afull-time dad thing, cause she
won't be able to pick the boysup, she can't do any of that
stuff.
So ask me again in a month andI'll tell you the schedule is
probably ridiculous right now.
I think we've found a goodbalance.
Tyra Valeriano (15:35):
That's good, and what have you kind of learned
in terms of now with your twolittle ones versus your older
kids when they were smaller?
How is the schedule for you now, since you were in law?
I'm assuming you were in lawenforcement at that time right,
never knew the difference.
Adam Romine (15:55):
That was just what I was.
Um, you know, I I think Ibefore I was not, like I said, I
wasn't as intentional abouttrying to make sure I was at
things.
Um, you know, I was very careerfocused and trying to, you know
, check all the boxes and setyourself up for promotion, all
the things you have to do, Um,you know.
So there's that piece of it isthat perspective definitely
(16:19):
makes a difference.
But, again, like I was on callall the time.
So you know, like, the idea ofmaking sure I was at practice in
the evenings and things likethat wasn't always a guarantee.
You know, you try when you can,but you know, just, it was a
different game back then.
You know, also, to their momdidn't work, which made a
(16:42):
difference in terms of how doyou balance the schedule out.
She could get them where theyneeded to be and all that kind
of stuff, you know.
But I also remember being oncall with with guys and there
was a call out and they were outto dinner and they'd leave and
have to call friends to comepick them up from a restaurant.
So you know, I've I've livedthat life and you know that's
(17:06):
just unfortunate.
You know, when I look back atthat I'm like just what a
terrible way to kind of gothrough life and putting your
family second that way.
And I don't want to.
I'm not trying to demeananybody, I mean, you know,
everybody has differentpriorities.
I just look at it now and think, man, like in 20 years or 30
years, when you don't have thatjob anymore, you still have your
family, you know.
Tyra Valeriano (17:29):
so make sure you have that relationship or those
relationships set up forsuccess going forward.
I like to bring up this topicand this is actually something I
talked about on my firstepisode was being a parent in
law enforcement and therealities of how difficult it
can be, because I think weglamorize and I'm not saying
that everybody does this, but Ithink it's glamorized to say,
hey, you can do it, encourageyou to be a police officer, you
(17:52):
can get through the academy andyou can be super cool dad or
super mom, and there's just thispretty picture.
That isn't real.
It's not a realisticperspective of what you're going
to experience as a parent inlaw enforcement.
So everybody knows what they'resigning up for, they know
they're going to miss holidays,birthdays, all of these things,
(18:12):
but the real struggle is how doyou deal with that and how do
you make time for your family,how do you make time for your
kids and when do we learn theselessons?
I kind of feel that now that wehave this at the forefront in
law enforcement, we're dealingwith mental health issues and
people wanting work-life balancemore as they go into their
(18:32):
career.
Are we going to fix that?
How is law enforcement going tochange that?
So I was just curious to seehow you were able to see the
difference between your olderkids compared to now, because
this is a conversation that'sbeing had now.
Right, we're trying to figureout how can officers have
work-life balance consideringthe circumstances that they're
facing today.
Adam Romine (18:54):
Yeah, and it's interesting.
You know you brought up likemissing the holidays and
birthdays and all that kind ofstuff.
But I mean, obviously if youmissed every Christmas, like
that would be remembered.
But you know you're going tolook back and you or your kids
are probably going to look backand not remember a specific day.
They're going to rememberpatterns, um, you know, and what
you were like in the eveningsand that kind of stuff.
(19:14):
And I always think that too,like I mean, you can give the
greatest gifts, but your kids,when they're older, will
remember, you know, vacationsand camping trips and
experiences, you know.
And so I I I think about thatmore than anything with my older
kids versus now is how muchmore engaged I am, I think, with
my, with my boys when I'm home,like after work and on weekends
(19:37):
and things like that.
With my boys when I'm home, likeafter working, on weekends and
things like that, um, you know,versus when my older kids were
like, and you know, like it'smentally draining a lot of times
, you know, and I investigatedthe child exploitation for a
long time, which like can justsuck the life out of you and you
know.
So then when you get home, likeyou do want to just stare at a
TV and like have, do somethingmindless, you know, and have and
(19:59):
have a time out, so which thentakes away the engagement from
your, from your family.
So you know, I think youbrought up the mental health
thing.
I think that's a big piece thatwe're recognizing as a society
now is the toll that that cantake on you if you don't, if, if
you're not proactive about it.
Um, you know, and that doesn'tmean you know, everybody wants
(20:22):
to go see a therapist.
You know, twice a year, thoughI encourage it, like I don't
think you realize the emotionalvomiting sometimes you need to
do until you get in the room andand just get it out.
Um, but being, I think, ifnothing else, intentional with
your time and not just going,especially I say this for young
men don't just go home and playvideo games, you know,
(20:43):
especially violent video games,because then you're really never
giving your mind a break.
I'm remodeling a house Likethere's something creative and
framing and drywall and pain andlaying floors, and like so I,
even if it's something like that, like find something you know,
and for me, like I it's, I saylike it's not helpful having
(21:04):
one-year-olds in there whileyou're trying to lay floors down
, on the other hand, like it'stime with them, you know, and I
still get to accomplishsomething, you know, but it has
nothing to do with work and Ican just laugh and have fun and
that kind of stuff.
So it's therapeutic withoutseeing a therapist.
So I think we're much, muchbetter at you know, in law
(21:25):
enforcement now, aboutrecognizing that that is a huge
piece.
You know that thatpost-traumatic stress whether
you want to call it PTSD, Idon't know, but it I think you'd
be foolish not to recognizethat a lot of what you do has
that stress and that traumainvolved in what it does to you
later.
So be intentional for sure.
Tyra Valeriano (21:47):
So would you say that you're a pretty big
advocate for having hobbies thataren't related to work?
Adam Romine (21:53):
Yeah, well, and it's hard to say.
I mean, I think there's a lotto be said for having hobbies
that have nothing to do withwork.
That being said, um, you know,like you've got to if, if going
shooting is like a de-stressorfor you and you can just kind of
go out there and think aboutthat little three inch dot
(22:13):
that's, you know, 50 yards outthere, if that's what's like
brings you back down, go for it.
If you don't, even if it's ifit's work, I guess you could
articulate that shootings workrelated.
But it's better than not havinganything.
You know, I was a CrossFitinstructor for a long time and
(22:33):
you know, I remember runnerscoming in and I was, you know,
and they're like oh, I need toget stronger.
For for this reason, and atsome point I'm like like
exercise is exercise, whatevergets you out the door and off
the chair, whether it's liftingweights or going running or
whatever, like it's better to dosomething than nothing.
So if your hobby happens to beshooting and that's what gives
you a stress relief, great, um,I think there's something to be
(22:57):
said for having somethingnothing work related.
That way you can completelyseparate it.
You know, but to each his own,I suppose you know.
Maybe it's music or playingchess or, like I love to cook.
That's probably a one for methat I really enjoy.
But you got to try some newthings to figure out what your
hobby could or might be.
Tyra Valeriano (23:18):
Right.
What do you think is the majorcause for the mental health
crisis that law enforcement isfacing right now?
I mean, there's obviously somany factors right where we know
we've been in the job, we knowthere's a lot of factors, but
over and over, I keep seeing thequestion what is it?
Is it really the traumaticexperiences that we're seeing?
Is that really what's causingit?
(23:39):
Or is it, you know, the job andthe stress that's affecting the
home life, that making peoplefeel some type of way?
What do you think is a mainfactor in what the mental health
struggle is with policeofficers?
Adam Romine (23:55):
I think a big piece of it now is the microscope.
I think a big piece of it nowis the microscope.
You know, we had the abilitybefore, like to make mistakes
and learn from them like withyour peers or your bosses or
something like that and moveforward and just use that as a
learning lesson.
Now I mean and don't get mewrong I think body cameras are
(24:22):
probably one of the bestinventions ever in law
enforcement.
But everything now goes to themedia and then the media gets to
paint their own picture andthen that becomes society's
reality, and so you don't havethe ability to just make a
mistake and learn anymore.
And so I think, aside from justthat work stress is if I screw
something up, the whole world isgoing to see it and you think
about like man, they like.
(24:43):
It leaves no room for error.
It leaves no room to be a humanyou know, and no other job, I
mean hell, even like surgeonshave a very particular you know
thing that they have to do inwhich people could die at any
minute, but they don't broadcastthat to the world like they do
in law enforcement.
So even then they have theability to make a mistake and
(25:05):
correct it and move forward andreally nobody else would know.
So I think that is probably oneof the bigger things that
nobody wants to talk about ishow that media scrutiny and
being in the spotlight all thetime is really messing with
people and it takes away yourability to be a person.
Tyra Valeriano (25:25):
I feel like when I was in law enforcement, let's
say, for example, I had a casewhere my body camera was spewed
all over the internet and ofcourse there's just nobody's
going to ever see what's outsideof that one facing part.
Right, you can be sayingwhatever you're saying about the
case or the scene, but nobody'sgoing to see what's happening
around you.
They're going to hear whatyou're saying and once that gets
(25:45):
out there and people developtheir opinion about what you're
doing, how you're doing your job.
They don't know the law.
They don't understand the law.
You know you're feeling like youdid something wrong.
So not only is it that you aremessing up and everybody's going
to see it, even when you're notmessing up, and you're feeling
like you did because noweverybody has an opinion and you
(26:05):
can't say anything.
You're not allowed to go outthere in public and say, hey,
this is why I did what I did.
This is the law, and you know,put it out there and give your
side.
Did you have that strugglewhere you weren't allowed to say
your piece because we're justnot allowed to say anything
about it?
Adam Romine (26:21):
Yeah, I mean it's pretty odd and it's been made
clear that you know you're notsupposed to give your opinions
like to media and things likethat.
Obviously you can share it withpeople, that you know, but you
also don't want to, you know, godown the troll hole on social
media and be reading people'scomments, because then it just
fires you up even more.
You know, I think what really,what cops are looking for is
(26:46):
leadership staff that will betheir champion, you know, and
they'll stand, and we seeexamples of it around the
country where, you know chiefsor mayors or whatever get in
front of the cameras and say,hey, enough of the nonsense,
here's what really happened.
Um, and a hundred percent,believe my, my officers did the
right thing.
Um, you know.
But you know again, like youtalked about, like all the world
(27:07):
sees is what they see in thatlittle tiny lens.
not, you know, what led up to it, not what you're hearing in the
background, the history ofthose people, um, you know any
interactions you'd had with thembefore or similar types of
situation, all that kind ofstuff.
And it's interesting, like Iremember I was in a shooting in
2019 and we had had body camerasfor a few years, but they never
(27:32):
they it was a department policyat the time that you weren't
allowed to watch the camerafootage, even like after your
interview was done and all thatkind of stuff.
And then I had my shooting andafter my interview was over,
they finally changed that.
That the uh investigationsergeant said hey, um, just want
to let you know.
(27:52):
You're the first one Like,we've got this in place.
Now that your interview is done, you can come watch your video
if you want, you know, from thebody camera in place.
Now that your interview is done, you can come watch your video,
if you want, you know, from thebody camera.
And I didn't do it and he wasmad Um, he's like man, I spent
so much time trying to get thisin place, but what I didn't want
was to second guess myself thenext time because maybe I saw
(28:13):
something different on the video.
Like I knew what my reality waswhen I was there and I knew all
the things that led up to, youknow, do that shooting and I
didn't want to watch a video ofit and think, oh damn it, like
how did I not see that?
And then I find myself in thatsituation again next time and I
and I wait too long to make adecision.
(28:33):
You know that cost me my lifeor somebody else their life, my
life or somebody else's life.
So you know, that's why Ididn't go into the world of
watching the video and basingeverything based on just what's
on that video.
Tyra Valeriano (28:46):
So when that policy was in place, was it
accessible for public record?
Was the media able to requestit, or how did that work for
your agency?
Adam Romine (28:58):
Yeah, so we really, at the time, were not releasing
any body cam video.
I mean, they could do.
They call it a CORA requestit's a Colorado Open Records Act
but they would have to.
Whoever was requesting wouldhave to show the reason why they
needed the video, why it was inthe public's interest or
something like that.
But if it was still going,there's potential for it to go
(29:21):
to court or whatever like that.
It's still evidence, so theywouldn't release it.
We release a lot more camerafootage now.
They're proactive about it andI think it's the right thing to
do.
You know, I've said this foryears.
Like you know, we preach about,you know, being open to the
public, but we weren't alwaysvery open with our employees.
(29:42):
You know our employees werefinding out about things on the
news and you're like you know,why didn't they tell us before
they told the world?
Um, so they're getting a lotbetter now, I think, in general
about one being open to youremployees and they hey, here's
what's going on, this is goingto go out to the media.
So if you get questions, youkind of see it coming.
But, um, you know, also withthe camera footage, I'm glad
(30:05):
that they released the footage.
I also just wish there was amessage along with it other than
the very factual um, you know,and then this happened, and then
this happened, and then thishappened.
Like let's get out in front ofit and say, hey, you know, our
guys did a great job.
Here's what they dealt with.
This is what we train.
This is how they responded.
Tyra Valeriano (30:25):
I have seen it now, more now than ever, where
leaders are coming out andthey're making these press
conferences for their officers,but in a lot of times I still I
see videos circulating on theinternet and I'm wondering where
is the leadership that's goingto back up their officer?
Because a lot of the times theofficers in the right, of course
(30:45):
, they're in the wrong sometimestoo.
But even with that, you can goout there and tell the public
hey, you know, we acknowledgethis mistake and this is what
we're doing.
The transparency has to workboth ways, because if you're
just putting that video outthere and saying, hey, public,
you can see everything we'redoing, but yet they still don't
understand what we're doing.
It's not doing any justice forthe officer or the agency.
Adam Romine (31:07):
And I think you know, if we are going to take a
lesson from politics is try andcontrol the narrative.
You know, I mean you see itlike at the, at the national
level.
You know if there's somethingcoming up, they try to get out
in front of it and say here,here's what happened, here's
what's happening and this is why.
So I think that's probably ournext step.
(31:28):
I think in law enforcement weneed leaders who will try and
get out and control thenarrative.
You know, again, sometimes youhave one that just is not afraid
of of the politics and whatpeople think, and all that kind
of stuff.
They're department's champion,and I think you're going to have
passionate, dedicated employeeswhen you have those kinds of
(31:50):
leaders.
The departments where you don'thave that are the ones people
leave.
And so I think leaders have toask themselves that that
question too is what's moreimportant to me, Like how, what,
what is going to allow me tosleep at night?
Am I a champion for my officerswhen they're in the right, or
am I going to play the politics?
Tyra Valeriano (32:12):
Yeah, and in your experience, what would you
say?
You've seen change inleadership over the last maybe
five years.
Adam Romine (32:21):
I mean I don't see leadership going in a good
direction as a general rule inlaw enforcement.
I think it's very much the PCworld that we live in that they
did, rather than, you know,accidentally saying something
that is going to make somebodyupset.
They just don't say anything atall.
So that's why I think when yousee one stand up and make a
(32:42):
statement in front of a camera,it's such an anomaly because it
doesn't happen.
We are promoting people who aremanagers and not leaders, and I
think in like a military,paramilitary types of
organization, like you needleaders I'm not saying you don't
need managers and maybe you canteach leaders to manage, but
(33:02):
you can't necessarily teachmanagers to lead.
So I you know somewhere in that,in that testing process, we've
lost the ability to identifythose characteristics that you
can't, that are harder to test.
For you know, we can do policyreview and we can say you know,
do you know this statute betterthan the next guy?
Okay, you're up, but how do weget people to follow you?
(33:25):
You know, how do you createthat followership?
So I don't know, and I'm not,the good old boy club was not
necessarily the way to do iteither, you know, because then
we were promoting people justout of friendship, I think some
type of personal involvement inthat and saying, oh, like this
person deserves to get promotedbecause of these key things that
that are needed as opposed tojust doing it all by computer.
(33:48):
And what is?
What is the number of crunch,say, at the end.
Tyra Valeriano (33:52):
I agree with everything that you're saying.
I also think that, with the waythings are in policing, it's
very hard to adjust leadershipwhere it's at right now because
we have fallen so far behind.
So, for example, I probably cancount on all of my fingers how
many agencies have newerofficers than experienced
(34:12):
officers.
So not only are they dealingwith the fact that they don't
have experience in their agency,but they're promoting these
people to be leaders.
So maybe they have some leadercharacteristics, but they're not
prepared with the experience tobe in a leadership position.
Adam Romine (34:29):
If you want to be a sergeant, like you have to have
a minimum of, let's say, eightyears in law enforcement before
you can test.
Because you know, I I've alwaysthought this about like cops
too.
Like you're one and two ormaybe even one year one, you
don't know anything.
You realize that, you're tryingto figure it out.
You're like two through five.
You think you're hot and youknow everything, you can do
(34:52):
everything, and you're the manafter year five.
You're like no, you know what,I've got a lot to learn still.
So you're five to 10.
I think you really hone yourcraft and you learn a lot.
And then 10 to 20 is like yoursweet spot, where you have a ton
of knowledge, ton of experienceand you're really still
passionate about working.
After 20, you start seeing thebackside of things and
retirement and all that kind ofstuff.
But, um, you know.
(35:13):
So I don't know that you canlike speed it up per se, but I
think you know we talk a lotabout emotional intelligence for
young officers, like when we'rein hiring.
I think it wouldn't be a badthing for law enforcement
leadership to stop and do someself-reflection and think, okay,
you know, where am I missingthe mark and improve themselves
(35:34):
and then people are going tocome with them.
You know, I had a commanderhe's a chief now but um, he, he
struggled, um he like we were inpatrol at the time his division
was the last one that builtliterally midnight shifts filled
everywhere else in the city andhe still had day shift spots
open during shift picks.
And so you know, I remember,after the year started he sat
(35:56):
down with me and one of theother sergeants.
He goes like what happened,like what created this problem,
and he wanted honest feedback.
We gave him honest feedback and, to his credit, he made
legitimate, great changes as aleader, you know.
So I think maybe that's what weneed is some internal self
reflection and figuring out.
What do I need to do?
(36:16):
You know, we can give signingbonuses, we can do all these
things like to try and attractpeople.
How do we keep people and howdo we create that followership?
And that starts at thatleadership level.
Tyra Valeriano (36:26):
So not a lot of people are a fan of hiring from
outside the agency forleadership roles.
But, just like I had asked youbefore, considering the
circumstances that we're facingtoday, do you think that it's
more reasonable to considerpeople who do have that
leadership experience to comefrom outside into an agency, or
do you still feel like it shouldall be done within the agency?
Adam Romine (36:49):
Yeah, I think it probably depends on the dynamics
of the agency.
You know so, like my department, you know it's close to 800
cops, like it's a pretty bigagency.
It's not hard to identify goodleaders in a group that size.
You know, um, the departmentwhere I'm a reserve is a
department of eight.
You know so when you try to dopromotions inside of the
(37:11):
department at eight, all of asudden your, your pool is a lot
more limited.
So would it be beneficial for adepartment like that to say, hey
, like I really need, like astrong Lieutenant to help me.
You know, if I'm the chief andI want to go to, let's say, um,
you know, the FBI nationalAcademy, who do I leave in
charge of this department?
And maybe you don't have thatperson, um, on your in your
(37:34):
agency, so you have to.
So I think it probably.
I don't think you can say, youknow, definitely go outside or
definitely don't.
Probably depends on thedynamics.
You know again, the more peopleyou have to choose from, the
more likely you are to havethose resources and those types
of people available.
You know, but maybe not, Idon't know.
It just kind of depends.
Tyra Valeriano (37:55):
I feel like that's another reason why
there's such a problem with themental health aspect is just
because your leaders that arethere now just don't know what
to do.
They don't know how to help theofficers, the resources are
very limited and just all thechaos that's going on within
agencies.
Now you know you have alieutenant that may have maybe
(38:16):
four or five years experience onthe street maybe not even on
the street, just total lawenforcement experience and
they're in this role and youknow people are having real
dilemmas on patrol and they'rehaving real struggles, you know,
with their career or their life, and you have this person in
charge that just doesn't knowwhat the heck is going on.
Adam Romine (38:33):
Yeah, and they're at least proactive in saying,
hey, we like this is somethingwe need to address as the mental
health side of things.
But you have a huge group ofpolice leaders who never policed
in a in a world, like our youngcops do now with the media
scrutiny, with the body cameras,with, like the going only
(38:54):
toprogress calls and I say thisfrom like a larger agency but
you know they never policed inthat world.
So how can you it's really hardthen to relate to a young cop
who is dealing with theseproblems that you never dealt
with before personally.
So, yeah, that's, I don't knowhow you fix that either the
(39:14):
other than to say, hey, um,everybody at staff level,
everybody gets to start workingsome patrol shifts and see what
this world's like for these guys, so that then you can help them
address these problems or atleast better understand where
they're coming from.
Tyra Valeriano (39:28):
Right, all right .
Well, we are running out oftime.
There is a question that I wantto ask you.
I ask all of my guests, andthat is what would, what advice
would you give your rookie self,if there was any advice to give
?
Adam Romine (39:42):
Um, I, I would give the same advice that I got from
the officer that I knew growingup and it's the same one that I
gave to every cop that Itrained Um, and all of them that
, like, when I was the sergeantin charge of it is have a life
outside of this job.
Like, don't let it define you.
We're very fortunate that wefound a career that we're
(40:04):
passionate about and can trulymake a difference, but you can't
let it define you.
Like, if you're a dad and ahusband, be a dad and a husband
who's also a police officer.
Don't be a police officer who'salso a dad and a husband.
So I think that would be theadvice I give is just, you know,
really focus on like, figuringout early what your priorities
(40:24):
are and have a life outside ofthis, this role you know we
always talk about.
Keep your head on a swivel andbe aware of your surroundings
and things like that, but don'tforget to have fun.
You know, I I started all my mylineups that way.
Like you know, at the end ofbriefing, before we go out for
the day, the last thing I toldeverybody is like, let's go have
(40:45):
some fun.
So don't be afraid to stop andenjoy things where you can, and
for the public in general.
Like these guys are all human,they're going to make mistakes.
Give them some grace.
Let them learn they're going tobe better for it and then for
that you're going to get abetter police officer.
Tyra Valeriano (41:03):
Yeah, that's great advice.
I appreciate that and I'mpretty sure that a lot of the
listeners can resonate with that.
Adam, thank you so much foryour time.
I appreciate you signing upwith me and us doing this
podcast together.
You have a lot of experienceand knowledge and I think that a
lot of people will benefit fromsome of the perspectives that
you shared today.
If you guys have any questionsabout today's podcast, you can
reach out to me.
(41:23):
Adam is not available for anykind of contact, but I'm sure if
you guys have any questions, Ican pass them over to him and
he'd happily be able to answerthose for you guys.
But until then, everybody, staysafe and we'll see you on the
next one.
Thank you for joining me onChapter Blue.
If you enjoyed today's episode,be sure to follow and tag me on
social media and share withyour friends and fellow officers
(41:45):
.
If you're interested in joiningan episode, I'd love for you to
be a part of the conversation.
Until next time, stay safe,take care of yourself and
remember you're never alone inthis journey.
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