December 31, 2024 • 46 mins
This episode discusses the intersection of law enforcement and mental health, offering insights from former prosecutor Cody Robinette about the unique challenges officers face. Listeners will gain practical advice on navigating legal situations while prioritizing mental wellness.
• Understanding the pressures of litigation faced by officers
• Common mistakes officers make in court and how to avoid them
• The importance of transparency and accountability in documentation
• Emphasizing mental health as equal to physical health
• Building supportive networks within the law enforcement community
• Addressing societal stigma around seeking mental health help
• Practical coping strategies during stressful legal processes
Contact:
State Bar of Texas- Cody Robinette
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tyra Valeriano (00:01):
Welcome to Chapter Blue, the podcast where
we discuss the world of lawenforcement through an honest
conversation on tough orcontroversial topics, real
stories, perspectives andexperience from officers all
around the world.
Whether you're here forinsights on mental health,
self-care, work-life balance,getting into law enforcement,
getting out of law enforcement,or just trying to learn about
(00:21):
personal and professionalchallenges officers face every
day, you've come to the rightplace.
I'm your host, Tyra Valeriano,and whether I'm going solo or
speaking with a guest, eachepisode will discuss different
aspects of life behind the badge.
Let's turn the page and stepinto Chapter Blue.
Hi, Cody, Welcome to thepodcast.
(00:42):
Thank you for joining me frommy home state of Texas.
It's the best state ever.
I don't know if you agree.
Cody Robinette (00:48):
Amen to that.
Yeah, thank you, tyra, forhaving me, and I'm honored to be
here with you and join you.
Tyra Valeriano (00:53):
I want you to introduce yourself to the
listeners, let them know alittle more about your
background and what you're doingwith law enforcement now, and
just kind of where your stanceis in the law enforcement world.
Cody Robinette (01:06):
Yes, ma'am, so my name is Cody Robinette.
I'm a licensed attorney in thestate of Texas.
I've been an attorney for 12years.
Five of those years, and thebest of those years, were spent
as a prosecutor for the stateand I really enjoyed that.
After I got out of lawenforcement I went back into
private practice for myself, soI run a solo practice law firm
(01:29):
by myself and I'm also aninstructor at the Police Academy
.
An appreciation of respect forthose.
So I like to get involved asmuch as I can to be any kind of
support that I can be for thosethat take an oath to sacrifice
(01:50):
their lives for us and put theirlives on the line and sacrifice
their own safety so that I canhave mine.
Tyra Valeriano (01:56):
Well, thank you for that.
I'm sure everybody appreciatesthat.
How long did you say you didprosecution for?
Cody Robinette (02:03):
For five years, five years, and you said that
was the best time of your life.
Tyra Valeriano (02:06):
Why is that?
Cody Robinette (02:07):
That was the highlight of my career.
You know, when I was in lawschool it was, it was a joke
because I said I'm never goingto do, you know, criminal law.
That's just I don't have adesire for it or a taste for it.
And then, you know, I had thosethat were close to me that
(02:28):
encouraged me get involved withit, get involved with it.
And so I actually started outon the defense side and did
defense work for four years andI was going, hey, okay,
something clicks in my brain tobe able to connect to this and
so, for whatever value that is,my brain or lack thereof just
connected to it, loved it andenjoyed the aspect of it.
(02:53):
And then I got encouraged more.
You know you should run foroffice, you should run for
office.
So for those five years wasspent as an elected prosecutor
in my county and the substanceof it was fantastic.
Like I said, that was thehighlight of my career.
The political side of it maybenot as much, but I enjoyed it
(03:15):
and I miss it.
I still miss it.
Tyra Valeriano (03:17):
Well, I'm going to say that part of that is
because it's in Texas, right?
Cody Robinette (03:22):
I was about to say what can you find wrong with
Texas?
People can always find wrong inanything, but it's ideal for me
.
I love it.
Tyra Valeriano (03:30):
Yeah, I can't say that I'm biased or anything.
I mean, I was born and raisedin Texas, but I just know it's
the best state, so I'm glad thatyou had that experience there.
And it actually leads me to awhole lot of questions that I
want to ask you that maybe thelisteners are going to find
interest in.
Litigation is a huge topic,that is.
I worked in New Mexico, soobviously it's not far off, but
(03:54):
when it comes to the law it'svery, very different than Texas.
Litigation is like, I don'tknow, eating candy.
I mean people can file anythingand officers are drowning in
stress from all of the tortclaims and just everything that
they're going through.
What is something that youlearned and I know, like I said,
(04:15):
texas and New Mexico are verydifferent from each other but
what would you say that you'velearned in your career?
That you could provide someadvice for officers who are
going through litigation or whatto expect if they are involved
in one?
Cody Robinette (04:27):
You bet and I'm limited to how long with this?
Yeah, I'll keep it succinct asmuch as I can.
So one of the subjects that Iteach in the academy is force
options.
It's not how to use force, butit's when you are justified in
doing so.
And I loosen the tension alittle bit with a dad joke,
(04:51):
because I'm full of those andfull of some other stuff too.
But what I tell them is the waythat you throw a party in outer
space.
You plan it, and so the morepreparation you do in advance,
the better off you're going tobe, not only in understanding
(05:11):
your justifications, but havingmore confidence in yourself in
the actions that you take.
So taking time, even if you'renot on the clock, is just to
keep yourself abreast of the law, to keep yourself in the know
of the things that you have.
Protection for Texas, againbeing the best state there is in
(05:35):
the union, has many, manyprotections for law enforcement
officers, for law enforcementofficers, and the justification
for that is that ourlegislatures want to give
officers the flexibility and thefreedom to be able to do what
(05:58):
they are designed to do.
You know so there's a lot ofjustifications in Chapter 9 of
your penal can you.
Here's what you can do and beright and justified in that.
As you said, there is a bigdistinction between who can file
stuff versus are you going tobe successful at stuff.
(06:18):
So it's it's not.
It's not an exact question whensomebody says, can I be sued
for this Because I have to splitthe frog here and say, can
somebody file on you?
Yeah, anytime, and that's notalways comfortable, but will
they prevail?
That's always a differentquestion and a different
analysis.
(06:40):
So you know the more that youcan lean on those that have your
back for your prosecutors, foryour TMPA, your county
representatives, things likethat that when you do get in
trouble, that they're the onesto come to your rescue.
(07:02):
The more you get to know them,have a personal relationship,
the more you can trust them, themore confidence you have in
them and they are there for yourprotection.
They're there to go to bat foryou, and that's what I told my
law enforcement agents day onewhen I got in as a prosecutor.
You know we may not always seeeye to eye on everything, I may
(07:23):
not always understand the natureof your job and vice versa, but
I want you to always haveconfidence that as long as you
are doing what you can withinthe parameters of the law, I
will be there to go to bat foryou always, and you don't have
to fight alone.
And that's one of the biggestpieces that causes apprehension
(07:47):
in people is that I feel aloneand I feel like I'm fighting
alone and I feel that I have totake this all on myself and have
to have all the answers.
And you don't.
Nobody does.
Tyra Valeriano (07:58):
Right.
So how is that role different?
You said, you did defense too,right?
Cody Robinette (08:03):
Yes, ma'am.
Tyra Valeriano (08:03):
So you were able to see both aspects.
What would you say is thebiggest mistake that you saw
officers make in court, or maybeeven on the reports?
What is something that was verycommon for you on the defense
side?
Cody Robinette (08:18):
I would say number one.
The worst thing, the worstthing that you can do,
especially to jeopardize yourcareer, is double down on a lie,
or even if it's not even if youdon't categorize it as a lie
inside your head, you're notsure.
So you kind of just try andfloat with it and you'll get
(08:38):
hung with that noose Is thatdefense attorneys will pick up
on that.
That's blood in the water,right.
And the defense attorney sharkswill come run into that and say
, yeah, we, we've got you and wecan, um, make it look terrible.
So, um, what I advise myofficers, one of the other
subjects that I teach,especially in academy, is
(09:00):
courtroom testimony, and I startoff by telling them be human,
guess what?
You are human, so be human andpresent yourself as a human.
You are going to make mistakes.
I make mistakes too.
Therefore, be human and whenyou do have a mistake, admit it.
Admit it willingly and freely,bring it to the prosecutor's
(09:21):
attention beforehand, and thatway we can, on the prosecution
side, we can mitigate that, wecan take the sting out of it, so
that if you're on the stand, ifyou make a mistake in your
report and the defense attorneyis salivating, being like, oh,
I'm going to get them, I'm goingto get them.
The prosecutor is going to belike, hey, let's do this in
direct and say you know what?
This little, this little errorhere, you know typographical
(09:44):
error, that's really not whatyou meant, was it?
No, okay, are you gonna dobetter next time?
Yeah, okay, great.
And then the defense is gonnasay, oh, oh, you made a mistake.
And we're gonna say, yeah,baston answered, we've already
covered that, no problem.
Tyra Valeriano (09:58):
Yeah, you know, when you said that it just gives
me a visual of being in court.
I didn't really have to testifyvery often, but the times that
I did I can literally visualizea dog drooling at the mouth
because there's like meat, Idon't know.
That just gave me avisualization of it.
Cody Robinette (10:13):
You bet they're ready for it and they're hungry
for it.
And so when you as a prosecutor, when you enable your
prosecutor to be able to takethat sting away, the salivation
just dries up and they havenothing.
The defense has nothing.
So, like I said, number one ifyou make a mistake, or you know,
(10:37):
if you make an error, admit it,no problem.
Another big I don't know if I'dcall it a mistake or error or
what it may be just kind of someoversights is.
You know, we exchangethoroughness of our job for
convenience and I've had plentyof times where I've had to go
(10:58):
back to an officer from theprosecution side.
I've had to go back to anofficer and say, hey, you know
what, I need some supplementhere.
I need a little bit more, notbecause I enjoy making your life
miserable that's not true butbecause I need to make sure that
(11:18):
I am here as a prosecutor toprotect you on the stand, so
that you don't sweat as much asyou potentially could.
Whether know whether that issaying you know you didn't
submit a report.
You were on scene and you mayhave, you may or may not have
observed something, but yourdefense comes to you and says
hey, by the way, this bodycamera caught three officers on
the scene and we only have tworeports.
What's up with that?
And that's not great, and thatit makes all of us on the state
(11:45):
side.
It makes us nervous for that.
So you know, don't you know?
I tell my officers don't takeoffense to that when we come
back and ask for more.
It's not that you didn'tnecessarily do a thorough job,
but it's just saying, hey, youknow, help me.
What is it?
The movie?
Help Me, help you.
Tyra Valeriano (12:06):
I want to ask you I know we talked a little
bit about before we started thepodcast that you have a passion
and you really like to helpofficers on the mental health
side.
I want us to jump into thatbecause I do want to tie the two
together, especially because Ifeel that there's a lot of value
in tying what you do now andwhat you have experience in into
(12:26):
the mental health aspect.
So tell us a little bit aboutthat.
Cody Robinette (12:31):
You bet, before I say anything else to my cadets
, their first time that they areseeing my face, god bless them.
I encourage them that theirmental health is every bit as
important as their physicalhealth.
We do physicals routinely, sowhy don't we also do checks for
(12:55):
our mental health?
You know, we've, for one reasonor another whether it's
self-imposed pressure to say, ohman, am I perceived as weak
just because I'm going to seek,you know, counseling on the
mental side, or whether it's,you know, unknown pressures from
from an external source,unknown pressures from an
(13:20):
external source the importanceis that we get tune-ups, and
it's especially in lawenforcement that is so important
.
The average human willexperience a traumatic event
about seven times throughout thecourse of their life, whereas a
law enforcement officer,through the course of their
career, will experiencetraumatic events.
(13:40):
I think it's somewhere between250 and 300 times.
Tyra Valeriano (13:45):
I feel like it was more than that, I don't know
.
I feel like in 10 years I wentto like an 800.
I don't know Something crazyfeels like it.
Cody Robinette (13:54):
Right, right.
Of course, that number is goingto vary for a whole lot of
other people and depending onthe size of your jersey, there's
a lot of factors into it.
So I am a proponent that youcannot be healthy if you may be
incredibly physically fit butyou are not mentally on top of
(14:17):
your game, and vice versa right.
You need to be mentally,emotionally, physically fit in
order to perform this job.
There are a lot of pressures,there are a lot of things that
you are living in a world of theworst part of society, that
(14:39):
there is day in and day out andyou may do so 12 hours a day or
more.
I think you said your yourshifts when you were what patrol
sergeant you were what 12, 13hour shifts.
Tyra Valeriano (14:51):
Yeah, I mean it's it's scheduled for 12 hours
, but the agency that I workedfor was very busy and we were
short staffed, just likeeveryone else, and I was staying
longer, and that's just how itwas.
So yeah, you bet.
Cody Robinette (15:04):
So you know, for for that many hours out of your
life, for literally 50% of yourdaily existence.
In your life, you areexperiencing things that people
have gotten to a rottensituation, whether through their
own or whether through, youknow, being a victim of somebody
else's actions.
That's the worst part of it,and so you've got to have an
(15:26):
escape, and you've got tocounteract that with positive
situations, with self-fortitude,right, strengthening yourself,
and nobody's designed to do thaton their own.
We are not designed to walkthrough this life on our own.
No matter who you are, nomatter what profession you're in
(15:49):
, nobody's meant to walk alone,and so it's important that we
are running at 100%, as much aswe can be, because we've got to
be a step ahead of those thatwe're encountering right.
Tyra Valeriano (16:01):
Yeah, of course.
Cody Robinette (16:03):
In every way respond to that?
Tyra Valeriano (16:17):
because, to be fair, I want to say that I
remember getting maybe not theexact same feedback from our
instructors about mental health.
It was brief, but you know, yougo into the career, you're so
excited and it just kind of goespast you.
And then five, six years downthe road, here I am with this
podcast, right, and I might havea listener out there who's been
on for five, six years andthey're like man, I remember
they told me that and I didn'ttake it seriously, and now I'm
(16:39):
having to deal with all of thesethings that I had a jumpstart
on doing if I would have justlistened the first time.
So how do your cadets respondto you telling them, hey, pay
attention to your mental health?
I mean, are they accepting?
Do they ask questions?
What's their response to it?
Cody Robinette (16:57):
I asked them is that literally crickets that I
hear Because it's you know.
They don't know what to takewith that because they're not
often they're not coming from,you know, inside the realm of
law enforcement to begin with.
Some of them are jailers andworking dispatch or something
like that.
It's a different animal and sothere's not often a lot of
(17:20):
feedback and I acknowledge thatup front and I tell them you may
not see it now.
The more you go into academyyou'll see it because that's
going to wear you down.
But also, you know, when youget into the stresses of your
daily job, like it'll, it'llreadily become apparent and so
(17:41):
it will make more sense later.
But you know, I give, I givethem all my cell phone number.
I said you know I'm not herejust to be your instructor, to
fold the book and walk out ofthe classroom.
If I'm supporting you, I'msupporting you and that means
you know you've always gotsomebody to talk to, whether you
want.
You know you don't have toalways take that, that's fine,
but I'm a resource for you that,even if you just need me to
(18:04):
stay quiet, I promise you.
Attorneys can do that, but wecan stay quiet.
If you just need to vent.
That's fine, and occasionally Iwill get them that boomerang
back, whether it's in theacademy or sometimes afterwards.
Tyra Valeriano (18:19):
And you know I love it when they do, because I
was just going to ask you ifyou've gotten any calls.
Cody Robinette (18:26):
Yeah, you bet I do and I love it.
And sometimes it's not even onjust kind of a mental challenge,
sometimes it's a hey, would youjust kind of walk me through
what I should do here, either inmy family situation, or you
know insurance, it doesn'tmatter.
And I say you know, even if Idon't know everything like I'm,
I'm here for you for sure, so Ido.
Tyra Valeriano (18:50):
I want to link your position now to the mental
health aspect, and the reasonwhy I feel like this is a really
interesting conversation isbecause there's a lot of new
police officers out there whoprobably have under five years.
They may not have experiencedany type of litigation, but we
know that everything that comeson to social media your body
(19:14):
camera, your reports, everythingis out there, it's available
for the public and it causes alot of scrutiny.
And sometimes you know whenpeople see things and they think
that the officer is wrong.
They don't understand the lawnumber one and they don't
understand what the job is ofthe officer or the limitations
that the officer has.
So one thing I would wantlisteners to know from your
(19:38):
perspective is the stresses oflitigation.
If there is a claim filedagainst them, whether it be from
a criminal case or just astandpoint of something that
somebody doesn't like what youdid and it's not criminal but
they're going to file a tortclaim, what do you think that
does to their mental health?
(19:58):
Because I'll tell you, I'veonly been in one litigation case
and it's almost over.
I'm actually still in it andI've been out of law enforcement
for two and a half years.
It's still not done.
It's a long time and it's verystressful and, considering how
long these cases take, thestress can actually be
unbearable.
If you have tort claim or youknow different things being
(20:21):
filed against you over and overand over within a short
timeframe, what, what do youthink is good advice to tell
officers that are eitherexperiencing that, or have
experienced that, how to dealwith their mental health in
these processes?
Cody Robinette (20:38):
The first thing is not every case is designed to
take a shot at you personally.
It's not necessarily meant tobe here.
We have a problem with mendingthis idea of like I did
something wrong, versus theydon't like me or it's a
rejection of the self and itshouldn't be.
(21:01):
Even as a defense attorney, Iliked to make friends with law
enforcement officers and tellthem just, you know, even if I'm
not in the middle of a case,just tell them off the cuff, you
know here's who I am and here'swhat I'm about and you know.
Thank you for doing your job,etc.
But I want you to understandthat just like you're doing your
(21:26):
job, I'm doing mine right, andso attorneys necessarily make
their business off of taking andpicking up a client's cause,
whether it has merit or not.
Sometimes we're going tobecause we run a business, and
that's especially more criticalfor small businesses like mine,
(21:46):
where I'm the only attorney inmy practice.
So we we have to be zealousadvocates for our clients, and
sometimes that means, you know,we have to advocate for them in
ways that we may not personallyagree with.
We set ourselves aside to dowhat's in the best interest of
(22:07):
those we have agreed torepresent.
So you know, whether it's civilor even in criminal cases, right
when you get put on the standyou kind of feel personally,
attacked and digging down to thenature of being a law
enforcement officer.
Let's say you have a DWI stopand you're challenged on it.
(22:28):
You have a motion to suppressand the defense attorney wants
to rip you into shreds becauseof the nature of your stop.
That feels personal.
That definitely feels like youknow, what did I?
Number one thought is justbecause this has been filed,
you're looking at it, going waita minute, what did I do wrong?
(22:48):
Now you're second-guessingyourself.
Then also, you know, whenyou're going through a bunch of
questions now it causes a bunchof more apprehension and you're
going man, what could I havedone differently?
What is this about?
And it's taken very personallybecause the challenge is based
on the conclusion that you made.
(23:09):
So it may not be about youpersonally, but it may just be.
I made a decision in myprofessional career and you know
it's being challenged and fromthe civil side it's not much
different.
It's just that you made aprofessional decision through
your professional capacity andthat's the only reason why
(23:30):
you're here.
If you were in a different roleyou might not be there you're
here.
Tyra Valeriano (23:37):
If you were in a different role you might not be
there.
So the mental health aspect ofthat and you know I can see the
similarities between taking astand on a criminal case and, on
the civil aspect, you know,having to deal with the process.
I have seen officers in mycareer who have been sued for
many reasons, some of which arenot them.
(23:57):
It usually is based on wantingmoney.
People want to pay out, peoplewant money.
So if they find something theyfeel is wrong, even though they
may have no merit, they justwant a payout.
And that's usually how it goesat the end of the day.
So would you agree.
Cody Robinette (24:12):
And everything starts at seven figures.
Everything starts at sevenfigures, everything starts at
seven figures.
You know, you got bumped by anofficer.
That's a million bucks, right,there, right.
Tyra Valeriano (24:19):
Yeah, right, I mean, it's literally everything.
So when you in your position?
The reason why I want to askabout the mental health aspect
is because officers stress aboutthese things, right, I've seen
these officers go through somany civil cases and they've had
them filed and filed and itdoesn't mean they're a bad
(24:40):
officer.
I mean they're good people,they're good officers.
Yeah, they make mistakes hereand there, but nothing that
would make you think, hey,they're getting sued left and
right, what's wrong with thiscop?
They're stressed out, you know,and it's like how do you, how
do you help them deal with that?
Because civil cases take a longtime.
(25:00):
This follows you until the veryend and regardless of what the
outcome is, I'll tell you one ofthe the aspects of worry that
comes with the civil side isthat, depending on what the
outcome is, there could possiblybe a criminal charge that could
occur from that, depending onwhat happens, and that alone can
(25:24):
make an officer stress out foryears and years and years and
they don't know how to cope withit.
What is your best advice forcoping with that during that
timeframe?
Cody Robinette (25:36):
coping with that during that timeframe.
Find a healthy vice emphasis onhealthy, and I say that as an
attorney 33% of us, through ourcareers, will end up through
some sort of substance abuse atsome point in our career.
That's dangerously high, right?
So don't lean on things thataren't healthy for you.
But again, you know, escape,unplug your mind for it.
(25:58):
Sometimes I get that that's achallenge is to say you know how
am I supposed to separatemyself from this?
You know, especially, this isaffecting my day in and day out.
But go find the best part ofthe world and plug in there,
whether it's a family, whetherit's church community, whether
it's, you know, other officersthat are friends, maybe in a
(26:19):
different jurisdiction.
Escape from that.
Escape from that.
It's not wrong to unplug, it'snot wrong to to just take some
time for yourself, right, anddon't stigmatize it being
selfish.
Don't categorize that as beingselfish.
Self-care is not selfishness,you know, because you have to in
(26:42):
order for you to be able topour into somebody else's glass,
you've got to have something inyour own pitcher, and so you
have to work on that.
And that was one of mychallenges for a long time is
that I categorized it asselfishness and so I wouldn't
take time for myself and I endedup being like a shaken Coke
bottle that continues andcontinues, that pressure builds
(27:04):
up until you know something kindof.
Something kind of manifestsitself in an unhealthy way.
(27:28):
Right, and that does happen alot.
You know inability toconcentrate, you know tiredness,
fatigue, you know you're againyou're not running at a hundred
percent, which is not not ideal,and you can.
You can either invest in doingthat and putting time into your,
(27:49):
your self-care and your escapeand and up front, or you can be
forced to make time for it afterthe negative physical
manifestations come through.
Something that I personallyencourage, not because of, not
necessarily because of religiouspractices itself.
(28:11):
You know I am a follower ofChrist.
I practice Sabbath rest is Itake one day every week just to
escape from work, not because Ibelieve that that's going to
bring me like to be like, ohcool, I have a better standing
in heaven that way, but becauseit's a good opportunity for me
(28:34):
to practice gratitude and topractice things that are again
appreciative of the things thatI do have and am blessed about,
and that's part of my escapefrom the day in and day out what
I'm doing.
Tyra Valeriano (28:49):
So you mentioned that you had a time where you
were experiencing some mentalhealth concerns or issues and
you kind of bottled that up.
I mean, at what point did yourealize, like holy hell, I gotta
, I gotta take control of thisbecause it's not going down the
road that it should?
Cody Robinette (29:09):
Right.
There was a time that I I was.
I was undiagnosed at the timeand I had never felt depression
and anxiety before, so I didn'tknow exactly what it was.
I could surmise, but you know II'm not a diagnostician in that
respect and those that I hadclose to me and around me had
(29:31):
said you know, I think this issomething that you should
consider doing, that you shouldgo, should go, consider seeing
help beyond you.
The way it got bottled up wasthat I again I categorized it as
selfishness, so I didn't wantto invest time in that.
However, I did start doingthings to try and self remedy
(29:54):
and be like I've got this, I candefeat this.
And of course, I thought, if Ican do my physical exercises
enough, well, that should justbust it.
And of course, some people whowere unversed in mental health
challenges said, well, that'sall you got to do, just get your
sunlight and exercise.
Yeah, okay, Guess what?
It didn't work.
It helped, it helped, but in noway did that alleviate the
(30:24):
pressure of the Coke bottle thatwas being shaken, and so what
finally forced me was that Ijust had a physical breakdown.
Is that I just finally decidedyou know what I'm going to take
two days off of work.
I think I missed like a Thursdayand Friday.
Um, I just, I just had toescape, but I was, I, my body
(30:47):
was physically exhausted becausemy brain was overworking.
Uh, of course it was dealingwith the stuff inside as much as
it was dealing with the stuffoutside and compounding, and I,
you know it was inability toconcentrate.
It was, you know, inability toproperly express emotions, and I
(31:13):
had plenty of people that say,you know, man, this is going to
be a tough conversation, but Idon't recognize you.
This is not the Cody that Irecognize or knew or grew up
with or whatever it might havebeen.
And they said something'sdifferent about you and I'm
concerned.
And if it weren't for theencouragement to say, hey, you
(31:34):
know what, let's do thistogether, and people that
supported me and actuallyphysically went with me to my
appointments, even though theydidn't say a thing, but just
having somebody there with you,was paramount, because the worst
feeling that I had during thedarkest days of my depression
(31:58):
and anxiety was that I was inthe fight of my life for my life
, and I looked to the side and Ifelt like I was fighting alone.
That is the worst feeling.
Isolation is the worst feeling,and it compounds.
What you're feeling and goingthrough is to be like the burden
(32:20):
is on my shoulders alone andnobody else is there to help me,
and so it feels overwhelming tothat.
Find your community Again.
We're not meant to walk alone.
So find the people that aregoing to do that, to say, hey,
(32:40):
tell you what.
I'll sit with you on the phonewhile we call the physician and
you know I'll go with you toyour appointments and you know
I'll drive you there.
For goodness sake, and they did, and that is what kind of
picked me up, set me back on myfeet.
We'll walk with you for alittle bit until you can get
(33:01):
yourself going again.
And that was the initial stepsthat I needed to get back on
track.
Tyra Valeriano (33:07):
That's really great to hear that you know
you're able to pick up from that.
I think it's very difficult forpeople in law enforcement to
come forward.
First of all, and obviously weknow there's a stigma I mean,
everybody knows it is and rightnow this is what we're trying to
change and I actually had adiscussion prior to you with
someone else about that andthere is this stance of, hey,
(33:30):
you're a man, you need to dealwith it To a certain extent.
Yes, I understand that.
I don't disagree with that.
I understand that I don'tdisagree with that.
Just the way society is right.
But I recall working with anofficer during my career who
experienced a lot on the job anda lot at home and you can just
(33:51):
tell he was going on a spiraldown.
I mean, you can see it.
It wasn't just in the way heacted, it wasn't just in
everything that people wereseeing on the news or body
camera or what was being said inthe newspapers.
I mean, he went through a lotand part of the the reason why I
(34:14):
think it's so important tochange a stigma is because, even
though he's a man, he was goingthrough a lot and he maybe he
didn't feel like he had anoutlet, or maybe because he had
so much years in law, lawenforcement, that he just felt
like you know, I'm almost done,it's fine, I'll just deal with
it the way I'm dealing with itand that'll be that.
And you know, I don't know what, what he's doing with his life
(34:36):
now.
I do know when I left he wasnot in a good spot and it's just
really hard for police officersto want to break that boundary.
They're perceived as weak,they're perceived as, oh, you
can't deal with it.
And I personally, my journeywith the mental health aspect of
(34:56):
law enforcement isn't so muchbecause that's what I
experienced.
I do have my own personaljourney and most of my struggles
were family related, that kindof strung from the job Right
(35:21):
through a different lens andlooking back at my time as a
sergeant and realizing how manyresources are not available for
police officers, it really justput into perspective why nobody
wants to ask for help, becauseif you want to ask for help,
you're going to be given the EAPprogram and I've talked about
this before and that's all wereally have.
And where I'm from, it was asmall I wouldn't say so small
town now, but it was a smalljurisdiction and if you go to
(35:43):
the EAP program, that counselorknows you know so-and-so and
their wife and friends, witheverybody that's in the
community and now everybodyknows your business.
So we're not going to do thatRight and there's no, there's
just no resources.
So these conversations, I think, are really great because it
shows people that this is whyyou have to talk to someone and
maybe, if you don't have to talkto somebody, agencies should be
(36:06):
providing resources that areimmediately available for first
responders to access withouthaving to go through a
supervisor or HR and putthemselves out there because
they're not going to want to doit.
Cody Robinette (36:20):
Right, yeah, absolutely.
And the other challenge is tobe like, okay, you know, I've
got the pressure of needing tobe my absolute best on the job
and then I've got to take careof this off the job and I'm
exhausted after a 13 hour shift,like, how am I supposed, am I
sacrificing my sleep for that?
And there's a lot ofconsiderations and, like you
(36:40):
said, just the initial step ofreaching out to be like can I do
that in a safe way is notalways a comforting notion to
people.
And you know, some of thethings that I did is that I
definitely got out of myjurisdiction to go find a mental
(37:02):
health counselor and you know,and I that was an added layer of
safety to it to to keep youknow my confidentiality of the
things that I'm going through.
And there are assistanceprograms that you know.
Okay, they don't know you andyou don't know them, and that's
(37:23):
sometimes that could work bothways, right, sometimes that's a
comfort to people to be like, ohcool, well, they don't know
anybody that I know, and sothey're not going to be inclined
to talk to whoever.
Or it could work the other wayto say but they don't understand
and they don't know me, how arethey supposed to jump into my
situation if they don'tunderstand me Right?
(37:45):
And so, regardless, reachingout, especially taking a shot in
the dark, because you don'tknow how that's going to end up
or the road that's going to takeyou, that's a challenge for
sure.
And, as you pointed out before,we have to have command presence
(38:07):
.
Right, we have to have commandpresence, which means I give the
perception to other people thatI'm in charge, you're not in
charge, I'm in charge, andhere's how we're going to roll
through this situation.
You have to have the answers, awhole lot.
You are expected to have theanswers, and so this is one of
those times where mental healthis such a different animal
(38:29):
because it's a monster inside ofyour own head.
How are you supposed to pullthat out of your head so you'd
have it right in front of youand fight it there?
You can't.
And it's a different thing tosay, oh, maybe I don't have all
the answers for this, I don'tknow what to do, and you freeze
up.
But you know we don't.
And especially the stigma ofmasculinity, like you pointed
(38:52):
out, is to say, tyra, I read apost this morning that it was
supposed to be on masculinity.
But it said don't tell anybodyyour problems, nobody wants to
hear it.
You are a man, you are designedto handle that stuff on your
own.
And I was like what a lie.
What a lie.
Like what are we telling peopleto do?
Handle that on your own.
(39:13):
What if it doesn't work?
What if, when it doesn't work?
Right, that's such a lie andI'm like man, I feel bad.
Tyra Valeriano (39:24):
My husband and I have this conversation often
and we're running out of time,but I wanted to tell you that,
since we're on the topic, andhe's you know he's a man's man,
like he's been bodybuildingsince he was 15 years old, done
all these competitions, lovesthe gym.
You know he years old, done allthese competitions, loves the
gym.
You know he's athletic, justall the things, and he does
preach that.
(39:44):
You know you're a man, you needto suck it up and that's what
he believes in and that's okay.
Okay, so I don't sit there andargue with him, but I do think
that there are certaincircumstances that he's never
been exposed to or that he'snever experienced.
And even though he can tell me,if it were me and I dealt with
that, I think I'd be fine.
Well, that's okay to assumethat, but you will never know
(40:05):
unless you're in that situation.
And when we talk about thatsituation, my grandpa and this
is a story I've actually nevertold, just my family knows, but
my grandpa was in the militaryand he was very, very high
ranking in the army and when Iwas like five years old, I
remember him telling me he waswalking into the garage and he
(40:26):
told me that he was really sickand that he was going to be
going to the hospital and thathe probably wouldn't come back.
So I just remember him tellingme that he was really sick and
then, the next thing I knew, oneday he wasn't there anymore.
He died right.
So I thought he died in thehospital because he was sick.
It wasn't until I was 17 yearsold that I found out that he
committed suicide in the house.
(40:47):
He shot himself in the roomthat I used to stay in.
To top it off, I didn't evenknow that, and you know that was
a long time ago.
And so it brings me back tothis point where everybody goes
back to well, be a man's man.
This is how it's always been.
It's been like this back in theday.
But my grandpa, who was veryhigh ranking official in the
army, you know, obviously hedidn't feel like.
(41:11):
He didn't feel that we don'tknow what happened, we don't
know why he did what he did.
My grandma thinks that you knowhe was seeing someone.
So even though he was seeingsomeone, maybe there just wasn't
enough time because that stigmahas just been there for such a
long time.
So it's.
I think it's safe to say thatit's not really that there's a
problem with holding certainthings in because you're
(41:34):
expected to.
If you're a man, if you believethat, that's fine, there's
nothing wrong with that.
But what it is is that theexperiences that people are
facing in first responder rolesare very, very different or even
military, like my grandpa arevery, very different than what
the average person isexperiencing in their life.
And so we keep preaching thatand we're just like, yeah, you
(41:54):
know what, it's fine, it's fineand I joined this role because
I'm an alpha male and I can dealwith it, but that does not
change that you're still human,right, it doesn't change that
you're still human, absolutely,absolutely.
Okay, so I know we have come toan end and I asked my guests.
I always ask them a questionthat is related to law
enforcement, but since you arein an attorney role, I want to
(42:19):
ask you something a little bitdifferent.
What is a constitutional orwhat's a right that you see
officers violating the most inTexas?
Cody Robinette (42:29):
The right that I see officers violating the most
, I would say, is the right tobe secure in your person's
papers and effects withoutprobable cause.
That's been reviewed by amagistrate a neutral magistrate
right?
So, unfortunately, I have fartoo many cases where and we're
(42:53):
talking West Texas, right, andso we have somebody that made a
complaint, so the sheriff hopsin the truck and says, yep,
let's go get them, and theydrive up to the person's house
and they're cuffed and headingback to the station.
I'm going hold up.
What, like?
I forgot the part where youwere wearing a red coat and a
(43:15):
George Washington looking wigand the three pointy hat, and so
I'm like when did the Britishinvade?
I encourage my cadets all thetime.
There is nothing wrong withgetting a warrant ever.
If you have the time andavailability to do it.
That is absolutely the beststep to take, because you have
(43:37):
your probable cause that's beenvalidated by somebody that's
impartial, and sometimes it'sthe same judge who signs your
warrant.
That'll be hearing the case,right, and if they want to
challenge the warrant, you canbe like hey, judge, you're the
one that signed that, dude.
If the defense attorney has aproblem with it, they can take
it up with your honor, so dothat.
(43:59):
And it sounds, that soundsreally unfortunate.
But it happens more than we see, and it happens more than we
think.
And it's I mean it's it'seasily remedied.
And I, once again, I think it'sour human nature, just for our
hearts, to go out to that person, be sympathetic and be like, oh
man, you know that's a wrongagainst you, but you know we can
(44:19):
calculate those things, we canbe thorough and methodical with
them, as the constitutionprescribes.
As you said, becoming being aconstitutionalist is kind of
becoming more and more rarebecause we're going what is that
thing, what You're?
Tyra Valeriano (44:34):
right, and that's why I kind of paused for
a minute.
I'm like, okay, wait, maybe not.
Everybody knows what that meansthese days, I'm not sure.
But on the topic of you know,the're just sitting there at the
sidelines like man, I wish wecan do that and we see them
(45:01):
pursuing, you know, right downthe street and I don't know.
Texas, texas is great when itcomes to being a police officer.
Cody Robinette (45:07):
I will say that you bet, you bet and I don't
mean that to emphasize.
You know, when things don't goright because they go right 99%
of the time right it's again thesqueaky wheel is the one that
gets the grease and gets theattention.
And so, you know, we see thesmall, the small indiscrepancies
and stuff that that may notlook right, but the large
(45:29):
majority of the officers and thelarge majority of the
situations are are to the T andI love that about it and and I
love the ones that that taketheir job seriously and they
want to do it right, and theywant to do it right the first
time, and so they're going to dowhat they need to, to measure
twice and then cut once.
Tyra Valeriano (45:46):
Fair enough.
Well, Cody, thank you so muchfor joining the podcast today.
It's been a privilege to haveyou and your legal advice,
giving us mental healthawareness and all of the stuff
that you've learned along theway.
Do you have any contactinformation that you can share
with listeners if they want toreach out to you?
Cody Robinette (46:05):
Yes, ma'am, so you can go to my state bar page
it's the State Bar of Texas andthen you can Google me and find
me from there, or there's asearch bar that you can find me
and my contact information isthere for my practice.
Tyra Valeriano (46:21):
Okay, all right.
Well to the listeners.
Thank you, guys for tuning inand again for your continuous
support.
Everyone be safe and I will seeyou on the next one.
Thank you for joining me onchapter blue.
If you enjoyed today's episode,be sure to follow and tag me on
social media and share withyour friends and fellow officers
.
If you're interested in joiningan episode, I'd love for you to
(46:42):
be a part of the conversation.
Until next time, stay safe,take care of yourself and
remember you're never alone inthis journey.
Welcome to Chapter Blue, the podcast where
we discuss the world of lawenforcement through an honest
conversation on tough orcontroversial topics, real
stories, perspectives andexperience from officers all
around the world.
Whether you're here forinsights on mental health,
self-care, work-life balance,getting into law enforcement,
getting out of law enforcement,or just trying to learn about
(00:21):
personal and professionalchallenges officers face every
day, you've come to the rightplace.
I'm your host, Tyra Valeriano,and whether I'm going solo or
speaking with a guest, eachepisode will discuss different
aspects of life behind the badge.
Let's turn the page and stepinto Chapter Blue.
Hi, Cody, Welcome to thepodcast.
(00:42):
Thank you for joining me frommy home state of Texas.
It's the best state ever.
I don't know if you agree.
Cody Robinette (00:48):
Amen to that.
Yeah, thank you, tyra, forhaving me, and I'm honored to be
here with you and join you.
Tyra Valeriano (00:53):
I want you to introduce yourself to the
listeners, let them know alittle more about your
background and what you're doingwith law enforcement now, and
just kind of where your stanceis in the law enforcement world.
Cody Robinette (01:06):
Yes, ma'am, so my name is Cody Robinette.
I'm a licensed attorney in thestate of Texas.
I've been an attorney for 12years.
Five of those years, and thebest of those years, were spent
as a prosecutor for the stateand I really enjoyed that.
After I got out of lawenforcement I went back into
private practice for myself, soI run a solo practice law firm
(01:29):
by myself and I'm also aninstructor at the Police Academy
.
An appreciation of respect forthose.
So I like to get involved asmuch as I can to be any kind of
support that I can be for thosethat take an oath to sacrifice
(01:50):
their lives for us and put theirlives on the line and sacrifice
their own safety so that I canhave mine.
Tyra Valeriano (01:56):
Well, thank you for that.
I'm sure everybody appreciatesthat.
How long did you say you didprosecution for?
Cody Robinette (02:03):
For five years, five years, and you said that
was the best time of your life.
Tyra Valeriano (02:06):
Why is that?
Cody Robinette (02:07):
That was the highlight of my career.
You know, when I was in lawschool it was, it was a joke
because I said I'm never goingto do, you know, criminal law.
That's just I don't have adesire for it or a taste for it.
And then, you know, I had thosethat were close to me that
(02:28):
encouraged me get involved withit, get involved with it.
And so I actually started outon the defense side and did
defense work for four years andI was going, hey, okay,
something clicks in my brain tobe able to connect to this and
so, for whatever value that is,my brain or lack thereof just
connected to it, loved it andenjoyed the aspect of it.
(02:53):
And then I got encouraged more.
You know you should run foroffice, you should run for
office.
So for those five years wasspent as an elected prosecutor
in my county and the substanceof it was fantastic.
Like I said, that was thehighlight of my career.
The political side of it maybenot as much, but I enjoyed it
(03:15):
and I miss it.
I still miss it.
Tyra Valeriano (03:17):
Well, I'm going to say that part of that is
because it's in Texas, right?
Cody Robinette (03:22):
I was about to say what can you find wrong with
Texas?
People can always find wrong inanything, but it's ideal for me
.
I love it.
Tyra Valeriano (03:30):
Yeah, I can't say that I'm biased or anything.
I mean, I was born and raisedin Texas, but I just know it's
the best state, so I'm glad thatyou had that experience there.
And it actually leads me to awhole lot of questions that I
want to ask you that maybe thelisteners are going to find
interest in.
Litigation is a huge topic,that is.
I worked in New Mexico, soobviously it's not far off, but
(03:54):
when it comes to the law it'svery, very different than Texas.
Litigation is like, I don'tknow, eating candy.
I mean people can file anythingand officers are drowning in
stress from all of the tortclaims and just everything that
they're going through.
What is something that youlearned and I know, like I said,
(04:15):
texas and New Mexico are verydifferent from each other but
what would you say that you'velearned in your career?
That you could provide someadvice for officers who are
going through litigation or whatto expect if they are involved
in one?
Cody Robinette (04:27):
You bet and I'm limited to how long with this?
Yeah, I'll keep it succinct asmuch as I can.
So one of the subjects that Iteach in the academy is force
options.
It's not how to use force, butit's when you are justified in
doing so.
And I loosen the tension alittle bit with a dad joke,
(04:51):
because I'm full of those andfull of some other stuff too.
But what I tell them is the waythat you throw a party in outer
space.
You plan it, and so the morepreparation you do in advance,
the better off you're going tobe, not only in understanding
(05:11):
your justifications, but havingmore confidence in yourself in
the actions that you take.
So taking time, even if you'renot on the clock, is just to
keep yourself abreast of the law, to keep yourself in the know
of the things that you have.
Protection for Texas, againbeing the best state there is in
(05:35):
the union, has many, manyprotections for law enforcement
officers, for law enforcementofficers, and the justification
for that is that ourlegislatures want to give
officers the flexibility and thefreedom to be able to do what
(05:58):
they are designed to do.
You know so there's a lot ofjustifications in Chapter 9 of
your penal can you.
Here's what you can do and beright and justified in that.
As you said, there is a bigdistinction between who can file
stuff versus are you going tobe successful at stuff.
(06:18):
So it's it's not.
It's not an exact question whensomebody says, can I be sued
for this Because I have to splitthe frog here and say, can
somebody file on you?
Yeah, anytime, and that's notalways comfortable, but will
they prevail?
That's always a differentquestion and a different
analysis.
(06:40):
So you know the more that youcan lean on those that have your
back for your prosecutors, foryour TMPA, your county
representatives, things likethat that when you do get in
trouble, that they're the onesto come to your rescue.
(07:02):
The more you get to know them,have a personal relationship,
the more you can trust them, themore confidence you have in
them and they are there for yourprotection.
They're there to go to bat foryou, and that's what I told my
law enforcement agents day onewhen I got in as a prosecutor.
You know we may not always seeeye to eye on everything, I may
(07:23):
not always understand the natureof your job and vice versa, but
I want you to always haveconfidence that as long as you
are doing what you can withinthe parameters of the law, I
will be there to go to bat foryou always, and you don't have
to fight alone.
And that's one of the biggestpieces that causes apprehension
(07:47):
in people is that I feel aloneand I feel like I'm fighting
alone and I feel that I have totake this all on myself and have
to have all the answers.
And you don't.
Nobody does.
Tyra Valeriano (07:58):
Right.
So how is that role different?
You said, you did defense too,right?
Cody Robinette (08:03):
Yes, ma'am.
Tyra Valeriano (08:03):
So you were able to see both aspects.
What would you say is thebiggest mistake that you saw
officers make in court, or maybeeven on the reports?
What is something that was verycommon for you on the defense
side?
Cody Robinette (08:18):
I would say number one.
The worst thing, the worstthing that you can do,
especially to jeopardize yourcareer, is double down on a lie,
or even if it's not even if youdon't categorize it as a lie
inside your head, you're notsure.
So you kind of just try andfloat with it and you'll get
(08:38):
hung with that noose Is thatdefense attorneys will pick up
on that.
That's blood in the water,right.
And the defense attorney sharkswill come run into that and say
, yeah, we, we've got you and wecan, um, make it look terrible.
So, um, what I advise myofficers, one of the other
subjects that I teach,especially in academy, is
(09:00):
courtroom testimony, and I startoff by telling them be human,
guess what?
You are human, so be human andpresent yourself as a human.
You are going to make mistakes.
I make mistakes too.
Therefore, be human and whenyou do have a mistake, admit it.
Admit it willingly and freely,bring it to the prosecutor's
(09:21):
attention beforehand, and thatway we can, on the prosecution
side, we can mitigate that, wecan take the sting out of it, so
that if you're on the stand, ifyou make a mistake in your
report and the defense attorneyis salivating, being like, oh,
I'm going to get them, I'm goingto get them.
The prosecutor is going to belike, hey, let's do this in
direct and say you know what?
This little, this little errorhere, you know typographical
(09:44):
error, that's really not whatyou meant, was it?
No, okay, are you gonna dobetter next time?
Yeah, okay, great.
And then the defense is gonnasay, oh, oh, you made a mistake.
And we're gonna say, yeah,baston answered, we've already
covered that, no problem.
Tyra Valeriano (09:58):
Yeah, you know, when you said that it just gives
me a visual of being in court.
I didn't really have to testifyvery often, but the times that
I did I can literally visualizea dog drooling at the mouth
because there's like meat, Idon't know.
That just gave me avisualization of it.
Cody Robinette (10:13):
You bet they're ready for it and they're hungry
for it.
And so when you as a prosecutor, when you enable your
prosecutor to be able to takethat sting away, the salivation
just dries up and they havenothing.
The defense has nothing.
So, like I said, number one ifyou make a mistake, or you know,
(10:37):
if you make an error, admit it,no problem.
Another big I don't know if I'dcall it a mistake or error or
what it may be just kind of someoversights is.
You know, we exchangethoroughness of our job for
convenience and I've had plentyof times where I've had to go
(10:58):
back to an officer from theprosecution side.
I've had to go back to anofficer and say, hey, you know
what, I need some supplementhere.
I need a little bit more, notbecause I enjoy making your life
miserable that's not true butbecause I need to make sure that
(11:18):
I am here as a prosecutor toprotect you on the stand, so
that you don't sweat as much asyou potentially could.
Whether know whether that issaying you know you didn't
submit a report.
You were on scene and you mayhave, you may or may not have
observed something, but yourdefense comes to you and says
hey, by the way, this bodycamera caught three officers on
the scene and we only have tworeports.
What's up with that?
And that's not great, and thatit makes all of us on the state
(11:45):
side.
It makes us nervous for that.
So you know, don't you know?
I tell my officers don't takeoffense to that when we come
back and ask for more.
It's not that you didn'tnecessarily do a thorough job,
but it's just saying, hey, youknow, help me.
What is it?
The movie?
Help Me, help you.
Tyra Valeriano (12:06):
I want to ask you I know we talked a little
bit about before we started thepodcast that you have a passion
and you really like to helpofficers on the mental health
side.
I want us to jump into thatbecause I do want to tie the two
together, especially because Ifeel that there's a lot of value
in tying what you do now andwhat you have experience in into
(12:26):
the mental health aspect.
So tell us a little bit aboutthat.
Cody Robinette (12:31):
You bet, before I say anything else to my cadets
, their first time that they areseeing my face, god bless them.
I encourage them that theirmental health is every bit as
important as their physicalhealth.
We do physicals routinely, sowhy don't we also do checks for
(12:55):
our mental health?
You know, we've, for one reasonor another whether it's
self-imposed pressure to say, ohman, am I perceived as weak
just because I'm going to seek,you know, counseling on the
mental side, or whether it's,you know, unknown pressures from
from an external source,unknown pressures from an
(13:20):
external source the importanceis that we get tune-ups, and
it's especially in lawenforcement that is so important
.
The average human willexperience a traumatic event
about seven times throughout thecourse of their life, whereas a
law enforcement officer,through the course of their
career, will experiencetraumatic events.
(13:40):
I think it's somewhere between250 and 300 times.
Tyra Valeriano (13:45):
I feel like it was more than that, I don't know
.
I feel like in 10 years I wentto like an 800.
I don't know Something crazyfeels like it.
Cody Robinette (13:54):
Right, right.
Of course, that number is goingto vary for a whole lot of
other people and depending onthe size of your jersey, there's
a lot of factors into it.
So I am a proponent that youcannot be healthy if you may be
incredibly physically fit butyou are not mentally on top of
(14:17):
your game, and vice versa right.
You need to be mentally,emotionally, physically fit in
order to perform this job.
There are a lot of pressures,there are a lot of things that
you are living in a world of theworst part of society, that
(14:39):
there is day in and day out andyou may do so 12 hours a day or
more.
I think you said your yourshifts when you were what patrol
sergeant you were what 12, 13hour shifts.
Tyra Valeriano (14:51):
Yeah, I mean it's it's scheduled for 12 hours
, but the agency that I workedfor was very busy and we were
short staffed, just likeeveryone else, and I was staying
longer, and that's just how itwas.
So yeah, you bet.
Cody Robinette (15:04):
So you know, for for that many hours out of your
life, for literally 50% of yourdaily existence.
In your life, you areexperiencing things that people
have gotten to a rottensituation, whether through their
own or whether through, youknow, being a victim of somebody
else's actions.
That's the worst part of it,and so you've got to have an
(15:26):
escape, and you've got tocounteract that with positive
situations, with self-fortitude,right, strengthening yourself,
and nobody's designed to do thaton their own.
We are not designed to walkthrough this life on our own.
No matter who you are, nomatter what profession you're in
(15:49):
, nobody's meant to walk alone,and so it's important that we
are running at 100%, as much aswe can be, because we've got to
be a step ahead of those thatwe're encountering right.
Tyra Valeriano (16:01):
Yeah, of course.
Cody Robinette (16:03):
In every way respond to that?
Tyra Valeriano (16:17):
because, to be fair, I want to say that I
remember getting maybe not theexact same feedback from our
instructors about mental health.
It was brief, but you know, yougo into the career, you're so
excited and it just kind of goespast you.
And then five, six years downthe road, here I am with this
podcast, right, and I might havea listener out there who's been
on for five, six years andthey're like man, I remember
they told me that and I didn'ttake it seriously, and now I'm
(16:39):
having to deal with all of thesethings that I had a jumpstart
on doing if I would have justlistened the first time.
So how do your cadets respondto you telling them, hey, pay
attention to your mental health?
I mean, are they accepting?
Do they ask questions?
What's their response to it?
Cody Robinette (16:57):
I asked them is that literally crickets that I
hear Because it's you know.
They don't know what to takewith that because they're not
often they're not coming from,you know, inside the realm of
law enforcement to begin with.
Some of them are jailers andworking dispatch or something
like that.
It's a different animal and sothere's not often a lot of
(17:20):
feedback and I acknowledge thatup front and I tell them you may
not see it now.
The more you go into academyyou'll see it because that's
going to wear you down.
But also, you know, when youget into the stresses of your
daily job, like it'll, it'llreadily become apparent and so
(17:41):
it will make more sense later.
But you know, I give, I givethem all my cell phone number.
I said you know I'm not herejust to be your instructor, to
fold the book and walk out ofthe classroom.
If I'm supporting you, I'msupporting you and that means
you know you've always gotsomebody to talk to, whether you
want.
You know you don't have toalways take that, that's fine,
but I'm a resource for you that,even if you just need me to
(18:04):
stay quiet, I promise you.
Attorneys can do that, but wecan stay quiet.
If you just need to vent.
That's fine, and occasionally Iwill get them that boomerang
back, whether it's in theacademy or sometimes afterwards.
Tyra Valeriano (18:19):
And you know I love it when they do, because I
was just going to ask you ifyou've gotten any calls.
Cody Robinette (18:26):
Yeah, you bet I do and I love it.
And sometimes it's not even onjust kind of a mental challenge,
sometimes it's a hey, would youjust kind of walk me through
what I should do here, either inmy family situation, or you
know insurance, it doesn'tmatter.
And I say you know, even if Idon't know everything like I'm,
I'm here for you for sure, so Ido.
Tyra Valeriano (18:50):
I want to link your position now to the mental
health aspect, and the reasonwhy I feel like this is a really
interesting conversation isbecause there's a lot of new
police officers out there whoprobably have under five years.
They may not have experiencedany type of litigation, but we
know that everything that comeson to social media your body
(19:14):
camera, your reports, everythingis out there, it's available
for the public and it causes alot of scrutiny.
And sometimes you know whenpeople see things and they think
that the officer is wrong.
They don't understand the lawnumber one and they don't
understand what the job is ofthe officer or the limitations
that the officer has.
So one thing I would wantlisteners to know from your
(19:38):
perspective is the stresses oflitigation.
If there is a claim filedagainst them, whether it be from
a criminal case or just astandpoint of something that
somebody doesn't like what youdid and it's not criminal but
they're going to file a tortclaim, what do you think that
does to their mental health?
(19:58):
Because I'll tell you, I'veonly been in one litigation case
and it's almost over.
I'm actually still in it andI've been out of law enforcement
for two and a half years.
It's still not done.
It's a long time and it's verystressful and, considering how
long these cases take, thestress can actually be
unbearable.
If you have tort claim or youknow different things being
(20:21):
filed against you over and overand over within a short
timeframe, what, what do youthink is good advice to tell
officers that are eitherexperiencing that, or have
experienced that, how to dealwith their mental health in
these processes?
Cody Robinette (20:38):
The first thing is not every case is designed to
take a shot at you personally.
It's not necessarily meant tobe here.
We have a problem with mendingthis idea of like I did
something wrong, versus theydon't like me or it's a
rejection of the self and itshouldn't be.
(21:01):
Even as a defense attorney, Iliked to make friends with law
enforcement officers and tellthem just, you know, even if I'm
not in the middle of a case,just tell them off the cuff, you
know here's who I am and here'swhat I'm about and you know.
Thank you for doing your job,etc.
But I want you to understandthat just like you're doing your
(21:26):
job, I'm doing mine right, andso attorneys necessarily make
their business off of taking andpicking up a client's cause,
whether it has merit or not.
Sometimes we're going tobecause we run a business, and
that's especially more criticalfor small businesses like mine,
(21:46):
where I'm the only attorney inmy practice.
So we we have to be zealousadvocates for our clients, and
sometimes that means, you know,we have to advocate for them in
ways that we may not personallyagree with.
We set ourselves aside to dowhat's in the best interest of
(22:07):
those we have agreed torepresent.
So you know, whether it's civilor even in criminal cases, right
when you get put on the standyou kind of feel personally,
attacked and digging down to thenature of being a law
enforcement officer.
Let's say you have a DWI stopand you're challenged on it.
(22:28):
You have a motion to suppressand the defense attorney wants
to rip you into shreds becauseof the nature of your stop.
That feels personal.
That definitely feels like youknow, what did I?
Number one thought is justbecause this has been filed,
you're looking at it, going waita minute, what did I do wrong?
(22:48):
Now you're second-guessingyourself.
Then also, you know, whenyou're going through a bunch of
questions now it causes a bunchof more apprehension and you're
going man, what could I havedone differently?
What is this about?
And it's taken very personallybecause the challenge is based
on the conclusion that you made.
(23:09):
So it may not be about youpersonally, but it may just be.
I made a decision in myprofessional career and you know
it's being challenged and fromthe civil side it's not much
different.
It's just that you made aprofessional decision through
your professional capacity andthat's the only reason why
(23:30):
you're here.
If you were in a different roleyou might not be there you're
here.
Tyra Valeriano (23:37):
If you were in a different role you might not be
there.
So the mental health aspect ofthat and you know I can see the
similarities between taking astand on a criminal case and, on
the civil aspect, you know,having to deal with the process.
I have seen officers in mycareer who have been sued for
many reasons, some of which arenot them.
(23:57):
It usually is based on wantingmoney.
People want to pay out, peoplewant money.
So if they find something theyfeel is wrong, even though they
may have no merit, they justwant a payout.
And that's usually how it goesat the end of the day.
So would you agree.
Cody Robinette (24:12):
And everything starts at seven figures.
Everything starts at sevenfigures, everything starts at
seven figures.
You know, you got bumped by anofficer.
That's a million bucks, right,there, right.
Tyra Valeriano (24:19):
Yeah, right, I mean, it's literally everything.
So when you in your position?
The reason why I want to askabout the mental health aspect
is because officers stress aboutthese things, right, I've seen
these officers go through somany civil cases and they've had
them filed and filed and itdoesn't mean they're a bad
(24:40):
officer.
I mean they're good people,they're good officers.
Yeah, they make mistakes hereand there, but nothing that
would make you think, hey,they're getting sued left and
right, what's wrong with thiscop?
They're stressed out, you know,and it's like how do you, how
do you help them deal with that?
Because civil cases take a longtime.
(25:00):
This follows you until the veryend and regardless of what the
outcome is, I'll tell you one ofthe the aspects of worry that
comes with the civil side isthat, depending on what the
outcome is, there could possiblybe a criminal charge that could
occur from that, depending onwhat happens, and that alone can
(25:24):
make an officer stress out foryears and years and years and
they don't know how to cope withit.
What is your best advice forcoping with that during that
timeframe?
Cody Robinette (25:36):
coping with that during that timeframe.
Find a healthy vice emphasis onhealthy, and I say that as an
attorney 33% of us, through ourcareers, will end up through
some sort of substance abuse atsome point in our career.
That's dangerously high, right?
So don't lean on things thataren't healthy for you.
But again, you know, escape,unplug your mind for it.
(25:58):
Sometimes I get that that's achallenge is to say you know how
am I supposed to separatemyself from this?
You know, especially, this isaffecting my day in and day out.
But go find the best part ofthe world and plug in there,
whether it's a family, whetherit's church community, whether
it's, you know, other officersthat are friends, maybe in a
(26:19):
different jurisdiction.
Escape from that.
Escape from that.
It's not wrong to unplug, it'snot wrong to to just take some
time for yourself, right, anddon't stigmatize it being
selfish.
Don't categorize that as beingselfish.
Self-care is not selfishness,you know, because you have to in
(26:42):
order for you to be able topour into somebody else's glass,
you've got to have something inyour own pitcher, and so you
have to work on that.
And that was one of mychallenges for a long time is
that I categorized it asselfishness and so I wouldn't
take time for myself and I endedup being like a shaken Coke
bottle that continues andcontinues, that pressure builds
(27:04):
up until you know something kindof.
Something kind of manifestsitself in an unhealthy way.
(27:28):
Right, and that does happen alot.
You know inability toconcentrate, you know tiredness,
fatigue, you know you're againyou're not running at a hundred
percent, which is not not ideal,and you can.
You can either invest in doingthat and putting time into your,
(27:49):
your self-care and your escapeand and up front, or you can be
forced to make time for it afterthe negative physical
manifestations come through.
Something that I personallyencourage, not because of, not
necessarily because of religiouspractices itself.
(28:11):
You know I am a follower ofChrist.
I practice Sabbath rest is Itake one day every week just to
escape from work, not because Ibelieve that that's going to
bring me like to be like, ohcool, I have a better standing
in heaven that way, but becauseit's a good opportunity for me
(28:34):
to practice gratitude and topractice things that are again
appreciative of the things thatI do have and am blessed about,
and that's part of my escapefrom the day in and day out what
I'm doing.
Tyra Valeriano (28:49):
So you mentioned that you had a time where you
were experiencing some mentalhealth concerns or issues and
you kind of bottled that up.
I mean, at what point did yourealize, like holy hell, I gotta
, I gotta take control of thisbecause it's not going down the
road that it should?
Cody Robinette (29:09):
Right.
There was a time that I I was.
I was undiagnosed at the timeand I had never felt depression
and anxiety before, so I didn'tknow exactly what it was.
I could surmise, but you know II'm not a diagnostician in that
respect and those that I hadclose to me and around me had
(29:31):
said you know, I think this issomething that you should
consider doing, that you shouldgo, should go, consider seeing
help beyond you.
The way it got bottled up wasthat I again I categorized it as
selfishness, so I didn't wantto invest time in that.
However, I did start doingthings to try and self remedy
(29:54):
and be like I've got this, I candefeat this.
And of course, I thought, if Ican do my physical exercises
enough, well, that should justbust it.
And of course, some people whowere unversed in mental health
challenges said, well, that'sall you got to do, just get your
sunlight and exercise.
Yeah, okay, Guess what?
It didn't work.
It helped, it helped, but in noway did that alleviate the
(30:24):
pressure of the Coke bottle thatwas being shaken, and so what
finally forced me was that Ijust had a physical breakdown.
Is that I just finally decidedyou know what I'm going to take
two days off of work.
I think I missed like a Thursdayand Friday.
Um, I just, I just had toescape, but I was, I, my body
(30:47):
was physically exhausted becausemy brain was overworking.
Uh, of course it was dealingwith the stuff inside as much as
it was dealing with the stuffoutside and compounding, and I,
you know it was inability toconcentrate.
It was, you know, inability toproperly express emotions, and I
(31:13):
had plenty of people that say,you know, man, this is going to
be a tough conversation, but Idon't recognize you.
This is not the Cody that Irecognize or knew or grew up
with or whatever it might havebeen.
And they said something'sdifferent about you and I'm
concerned.
And if it weren't for theencouragement to say, hey, you
(31:34):
know what, let's do thistogether, and people that
supported me and actuallyphysically went with me to my
appointments, even though theydidn't say a thing, but just
having somebody there with you,was paramount, because the worst
feeling that I had during thedarkest days of my depression
(31:58):
and anxiety was that I was inthe fight of my life for my life
, and I looked to the side and Ifelt like I was fighting alone.
That is the worst feeling.
Isolation is the worst feeling,and it compounds.
What you're feeling and goingthrough is to be like the burden
(32:20):
is on my shoulders alone andnobody else is there to help me,
and so it feels overwhelming tothat.
Find your community Again.
We're not meant to walk alone.
So find the people that aregoing to do that, to say, hey,
(32:40):
tell you what.
I'll sit with you on the phonewhile we call the physician and
you know I'll go with you toyour appointments and you know
I'll drive you there.
For goodness sake, and they did, and that is what kind of
picked me up, set me back on myfeet.
We'll walk with you for alittle bit until you can get
(33:01):
yourself going again.
And that was the initial stepsthat I needed to get back on
track.
Tyra Valeriano (33:07):
That's really great to hear that you know
you're able to pick up from that.
I think it's very difficult forpeople in law enforcement to
come forward.
First of all, and obviously weknow there's a stigma I mean,
everybody knows it is and rightnow this is what we're trying to
change and I actually had adiscussion prior to you with
someone else about that andthere is this stance of, hey,
(33:30):
you're a man, you need to dealwith it To a certain extent.
Yes, I understand that.
I don't disagree with that.
I understand that I don'tdisagree with that.
Just the way society is right.
But I recall working with anofficer during my career who
experienced a lot on the job anda lot at home and you can just
(33:51):
tell he was going on a spiraldown.
I mean, you can see it.
It wasn't just in the way heacted, it wasn't just in
everything that people wereseeing on the news or body
camera or what was being said inthe newspapers.
I mean, he went through a lotand part of the the reason why I
(34:14):
think it's so important tochange a stigma is because, even
though he's a man, he was goingthrough a lot and he maybe he
didn't feel like he had anoutlet, or maybe because he had
so much years in law, lawenforcement, that he just felt
like you know, I'm almost done,it's fine, I'll just deal with
it the way I'm dealing with itand that'll be that.
And you know, I don't know what, what he's doing with his life
(34:36):
now.
I do know when I left he wasnot in a good spot and it's just
really hard for police officersto want to break that boundary.
They're perceived as weak,they're perceived as, oh, you
can't deal with it.
And I personally, my journeywith the mental health aspect of
(34:56):
law enforcement isn't so muchbecause that's what I
experienced.
I do have my own personaljourney and most of my struggles
were family related, that kindof strung from the job Right
(35:21):
through a different lens andlooking back at my time as a
sergeant and realizing how manyresources are not available for
police officers, it really justput into perspective why nobody
wants to ask for help, becauseif you want to ask for help,
you're going to be given the EAPprogram and I've talked about
this before and that's all wereally have.
And where I'm from, it was asmall I wouldn't say so small
town now, but it was a smalljurisdiction and if you go to
(35:43):
the EAP program, that counselorknows you know so-and-so and
their wife and friends, witheverybody that's in the
community and now everybodyknows your business.
So we're not going to do thatRight and there's no, there's
just no resources.
So these conversations, I think, are really great because it
shows people that this is whyyou have to talk to someone and
maybe, if you don't have to talkto somebody, agencies should be
(36:06):
providing resources that areimmediately available for first
responders to access withouthaving to go through a
supervisor or HR and putthemselves out there because
they're not going to want to doit.
Cody Robinette (36:20):
Right, yeah, absolutely.
And the other challenge is tobe like, okay, you know, I've
got the pressure of needing tobe my absolute best on the job
and then I've got to take careof this off the job and I'm
exhausted after a 13 hour shift,like, how am I supposed, am I
sacrificing my sleep for that?
And there's a lot ofconsiderations and, like you
(36:40):
said, just the initial step ofreaching out to be like can I do
that in a safe way is notalways a comforting notion to
people.
And you know, some of thethings that I did is that I
definitely got out of myjurisdiction to go find a mental
(37:02):
health counselor and you know,and I that was an added layer of
safety to it to to keep youknow my confidentiality of the
things that I'm going through.
And there are assistanceprograms that you know.
Okay, they don't know you andyou don't know them, and that's
(37:23):
sometimes that could work bothways, right, sometimes that's a
comfort to people to be like, ohcool, well, they don't know
anybody that I know, and sothey're not going to be inclined
to talk to whoever.
Or it could work the other wayto say but they don't understand
and they don't know me, how arethey supposed to jump into my
situation if they don'tunderstand me Right?
(37:45):
And so, regardless, reachingout, especially taking a shot in
the dark, because you don'tknow how that's going to end up
or the road that's going to takeyou, that's a challenge for
sure.
And, as you pointed out before,we have to have command presence
(38:07):
.
Right, we have to have commandpresence, which means I give the
perception to other people thatI'm in charge, you're not in
charge, I'm in charge, andhere's how we're going to roll
through this situation.
You have to have the answers, awhole lot.
You are expected to have theanswers, and so this is one of
those times where mental healthis such a different animal
(38:29):
because it's a monster inside ofyour own head.
How are you supposed to pullthat out of your head so you'd
have it right in front of youand fight it there?
You can't.
And it's a different thing tosay, oh, maybe I don't have all
the answers for this, I don'tknow what to do, and you freeze
up.
But you know we don't.
And especially the stigma ofmasculinity, like you pointed
(38:52):
out, is to say, tyra, I read apost this morning that it was
supposed to be on masculinity.
But it said don't tell anybodyyour problems, nobody wants to
hear it.
You are a man, you are designedto handle that stuff on your
own.
And I was like what a lie.
What a lie.
Like what are we telling peopleto do?
Handle that on your own.
(39:13):
What if it doesn't work?
What if, when it doesn't work?
Right, that's such a lie andI'm like man, I feel bad.
Tyra Valeriano (39:24):
My husband and I have this conversation often
and we're running out of time,but I wanted to tell you that,
since we're on the topic, andhe's you know he's a man's man,
like he's been bodybuildingsince he was 15 years old, done
all these competitions, lovesthe gym.
You know he years old, done allthese competitions, loves the
gym.
You know he's athletic, justall the things, and he does
preach that.
(39:44):
You know you're a man, you needto suck it up and that's what
he believes in and that's okay.
Okay, so I don't sit there andargue with him, but I do think
that there are certaincircumstances that he's never
been exposed to or that he'snever experienced.
And even though he can tell me,if it were me and I dealt with
that, I think I'd be fine.
Well, that's okay to assumethat, but you will never know
(40:05):
unless you're in that situation.
And when we talk about thatsituation, my grandpa and this
is a story I've actually nevertold, just my family knows, but
my grandpa was in the militaryand he was very, very high
ranking in the army and when Iwas like five years old, I
remember him telling me he waswalking into the garage and he
(40:26):
told me that he was really sickand that he was going to be
going to the hospital and thathe probably wouldn't come back.
So I just remember him tellingme that he was really sick and
then, the next thing I knew, oneday he wasn't there anymore.
He died right.
So I thought he died in thehospital because he was sick.
It wasn't until I was 17 yearsold that I found out that he
committed suicide in the house.
(40:47):
He shot himself in the roomthat I used to stay in.
To top it off, I didn't evenknow that, and you know that was
a long time ago.
And so it brings me back tothis point where everybody goes
back to well, be a man's man.
This is how it's always been.
It's been like this back in theday.
But my grandpa, who was veryhigh ranking official in the
army, you know, obviously hedidn't feel like.
(41:11):
He didn't feel that we don'tknow what happened, we don't
know why he did what he did.
My grandma thinks that you knowhe was seeing someone.
So even though he was seeingsomeone, maybe there just wasn't
enough time because that stigmahas just been there for such a
long time.
So it's.
I think it's safe to say thatit's not really that there's a
problem with holding certainthings in because you're
(41:34):
expected to.
If you're a man, if you believethat, that's fine, there's
nothing wrong with that.
But what it is is that theexperiences that people are
facing in first responder rolesare very, very different or even
military, like my grandpa arevery, very different than what
the average person isexperiencing in their life.
And so we keep preaching thatand we're just like, yeah, you
(41:54):
know what, it's fine, it's fineand I joined this role because
I'm an alpha male and I can dealwith it, but that does not
change that you're still human,right, it doesn't change that
you're still human, absolutely,absolutely.
Okay, so I know we have come toan end and I asked my guests.
I always ask them a questionthat is related to law
enforcement, but since you arein an attorney role, I want to
(42:19):
ask you something a little bitdifferent.
What is a constitutional orwhat's a right that you see
officers violating the most inTexas?
Cody Robinette (42:29):
The right that I see officers violating the most
, I would say, is the right tobe secure in your person's
papers and effects withoutprobable cause.
That's been reviewed by amagistrate a neutral magistrate
right?
So, unfortunately, I have fartoo many cases where and we're
(42:53):
talking West Texas, right, andso we have somebody that made a
complaint, so the sheriff hopsin the truck and says, yep,
let's go get them, and theydrive up to the person's house
and they're cuffed and headingback to the station.
I'm going hold up.
What, like?
I forgot the part where youwere wearing a red coat and a
(43:15):
George Washington looking wigand the three pointy hat, and so
I'm like when did the Britishinvade?
I encourage my cadets all thetime.
There is nothing wrong withgetting a warrant ever.
If you have the time andavailability to do it.
That is absolutely the beststep to take, because you have
(43:37):
your probable cause that's beenvalidated by somebody that's
impartial, and sometimes it'sthe same judge who signs your
warrant.
That'll be hearing the case,right, and if they want to
challenge the warrant, you canbe like hey, judge, you're the
one that signed that, dude.
If the defense attorney has aproblem with it, they can take
it up with your honor, so dothat.
(43:59):
And it sounds, that soundsreally unfortunate.
But it happens more than we see, and it happens more than we
think.
And it's I mean it's it'seasily remedied.
And I, once again, I think it'sour human nature, just for our
hearts, to go out to that person, be sympathetic and be like, oh
man, you know that's a wrongagainst you, but you know we can
(44:19):
calculate those things, we canbe thorough and methodical with
them, as the constitutionprescribes.
As you said, becoming being aconstitutionalist is kind of
becoming more and more rarebecause we're going what is that
thing, what You're?
Tyra Valeriano (44:34):
right, and that's why I kind of paused for
a minute.
I'm like, okay, wait, maybe not.
Everybody knows what that meansthese days, I'm not sure.
But on the topic of you know,the're just sitting there at the
sidelines like man, I wish wecan do that and we see them
(45:01):
pursuing, you know, right downthe street and I don't know.
Texas, texas is great when itcomes to being a police officer.
Cody Robinette (45:07):
I will say that you bet, you bet and I don't
mean that to emphasize.
You know, when things don't goright because they go right 99%
of the time right it's again thesqueaky wheel is the one that
gets the grease and gets theattention.
And so, you know, we see thesmall, the small indiscrepancies
and stuff that that may notlook right, but the large
(45:29):
majority of the officers and thelarge majority of the
situations are are to the T andI love that about it and and I
love the ones that that taketheir job seriously and they
want to do it right, and theywant to do it right the first
time, and so they're going to dowhat they need to, to measure
twice and then cut once.
Tyra Valeriano (45:46):
Fair enough.
Well, Cody, thank you so muchfor joining the podcast today.
It's been a privilege to haveyou and your legal advice,
giving us mental healthawareness and all of the stuff
that you've learned along theway.
Do you have any contactinformation that you can share
with listeners if they want toreach out to you?
Cody Robinette (46:05):
Yes, ma'am, so you can go to my state bar page
it's the State Bar of Texas andthen you can Google me and find
me from there, or there's asearch bar that you can find me
and my contact information isthere for my practice.
Tyra Valeriano (46:21):
Okay, all right.
Well to the listeners.
Thank you, guys for tuning inand again for your continuous
support.
Everyone be safe and I will seeyou on the next one.
Thank you for joining me onchapter blue.
If you enjoyed today's episode,be sure to follow and tag me on
social media and share withyour friends and fellow officers
.
If you're interested in joiningan episode, I'd love for you to
(46:42):
be a part of the conversation.
Until next time, stay safe,take care of yourself and
remember you're never alone inthis journey.
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