April 5, 2025 • 54 mins
Ever wondered what happens when traditional mental health approaches fail our first responders? In this groundbreaking episode, I speak with Rob Poynter, a retired deputy sheriff, who took an unconventional path to healing the wounds left by his law enforcement career.
Rob's story begins with his upbringing as the son of a homicide detective who was an active father but struggled with alcoholism. He decided to follow in his dad's footsteps and after nearly 15 years of service, a motorcycle accident forced his medical retirement, leaving him to confront how his career had affected his relationships with his wife and son. Despite trying various wellness practices – from yoga to talk therapy – nothing seemed to break through the emotional armor he'd built up over years of service.
The conversation takes an unexpected turn as Rob describes his journey with the Siren Project, a nonprofit organization that facilitates psilocybin therapy retreats specifically for first responders. With remarkable candor, he details his experience with plant medicine in a ceremonial, medically-supervised setting in Mexico, and the profound insights he gained about his relationships and behavior patterns. Most surprisingly, he discovered his issues stemmed less from traumatic calls and more from childhood issues that had shaped his adult relationships.
What sets this episode apart is Rob's perspective as someone who once enforced drug laws now advocating for the healing potential of plant medicine. He emphasizes that he's "not some wavy gravy guy" but a typical law enforcement officer who found healing through an unconventional path. The lasting changes he describes – from daily meditation practices to newfound clarity in his relationships – challenge our assumptions about mental health treatment for those who serve.
Whether you're in law enforcement, another first responder field, or simply interested in alternative approaches to mental health, this conversation offers valuable insights into healing pathways that might not be found in traditional settings. Join us as we explore this aspect of first responder wellness and consider what it might mean for those struggling to process trauma in high-stress professions.
Ready to challenge your assumptions about healing? Listen now, share your thoughts, and help us continue this important conversation about mental health options for those who serve and protect.
🧰 Listener Resources from the Episode:
🌿 The Siren Project
A nonprofit organization offering plant medicine retreats for first responders
Website: www.thesirenproject.org
📬 Connect with Rob Poynter:
- Facebook: Rob Poynter
- Instagram: @rawb_zone
- Twitter: @RobZone1
- LinkedIn: Rob Poynter
- Email: Rawbzone@gmial.com
Let us know what you loved about this episode!
Fit For Shift is a first responder focused wellness app for health, fitness, and community. Sign up now for a 3-day free trial. First responder credentials are required to join.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tyra Valeriano (00:01):
Welcome to Chapter Blue, the podcast where
we discuss the world of lawenforcement through an honest
conversation on tough orcontroversial topics, real
stories, perspectives andexperience from officers all
around the world.
Whether you're here forinsights on mental health,
self-care, work-life balance,getting into law enforcement,
getting out of law enforcement,or just trying to learn about
(00:21):
personal and professionalchallenges officers face every
day, you've come to the rightplace.
I'm your host, Tyra Valeriano,and whether I'm going solo or
speaking with a guest, eachepisode will discuss different
aspects of life behind the badge.
Let's turn the page and stepinto Chapter Blue.
Welcome back to another episodeof Chapter Blue.
(00:42):
Today's episode is a littledifferent and it's a taken
perspective I have not yetdiscussed on the podcast, but it
very much ties into mentalhealth and wellness.
For first responders, I'd liketo welcome Rob Pointer out of
California, who is a retireddeputy sheriff with a very
different approach on bridgingthe gap between mental health
(01:02):
treatments and other options wemay not have considered before.
So thank you for making time tobe here today.
Rob, If you would share some ofyour background with our
listeners and what you're doingtoday.
Robie Poynter (01:14):
So happy to be here and I'm very grateful that
you're letting me share this onyour podcast.
My name is Rob Pointer.
I kind of the 50,000 foot viewis.
I grew up in a law enforcement.
My dad was a deputy sheriff for26 years in San Mateo County so
I grew up around lawenforcement.
He was mostly a homicidedetective so I really saw like
(01:39):
the high stress, the pressure oflaw enforcement, the pressure
of law enforcement.
He was also a very highfunctioning alcoholic.
So when I was about seven mymom split and then my dad raised
me from seven on Solo dad.
Law enforcement was there forall my games and all that stuff.
(01:59):
When it was about time 18 to 20years old to decide what I
wanted to do, I wanted to be inlaw enforcement because I loved
watching him and the camaraderiehe had with his buddies and
that was super cool.
And on the other side of it, Ididn't like the alcohol part of
(02:20):
it and how he handled his stress.
So I kind of came to thiscrossroads about 2021.
I started kind of testing and Iwas also heavily into health
and fitness at that time, doingbodybuilding shows, and I chose
to go the health and fitnessroute and I started making money
.
And I started I, you know,worked for one of the largest
(02:43):
health club chains in the world,became a district manager, then
a regional manager, then endedup owning my own club.
Subsequently, when I owned myown club, one of the members her
husband was the undersheriff ofAlameda County, which is, I'd
say, a medium-sized agency athousand sworn, I'd say
(03:07):
medium-sized agency, a thousandsworn started talking to her
about really what my passion wasand but my concerns, and she
shared with me.
Well, you know, lawenforcement's not like that
anymore.
That's not how they handlestress and they don't, they
don't go do that stuff anymore.
And I was like, oh okay, well,let me, let me talk to your
husband, talk to theundersheriff, you know.
Again he was like, no, we don't, we don't do it like that
(03:28):
anymore.
And I was like, oh okay.
So subsequently I got into theacademy, loved it.
Let me kind of back up a littlebit.
I came home and I told my wife,hey, I'm going to, you know,
I'm going to apply.
And I'd never shared with herthat I wanted to do this and be
in law enforcement.
So it was kind of blindsidedher and she's like what are you
(03:48):
talking about.
You've never even talked aboutthis before, but like everything
she's, she's always beensupportive of me and we went
down this road.
And you know, in in our agencystart off in a jail, did that
for a few years, then you go outto different duty stations.
So I went to the airport, thenI went to patrol, then I started
(04:11):
doing different specialoperations groups, you know
community policing special dutyunit.
Subsequently I ended up in themotor unit and then ended up
crashing.
The motor ripped my thumbtendon, ripped my shoulder, and
(04:31):
then I just I could not get themobility back and subsequently I
retired, medically retired,because of a shoulder injury.
So do you have questions?
Tyra Valeriano (04:42):
Yeah, so how long were you with that agency
before that happened?
Robie Poynter (04:49):
About 14 and a half years.
Tyra Valeriano (04:51):
Oh man, that must have been tough to have to
medically retire after beingthere for 14 years.
Robie Poynter (04:58):
It was very difficult in that, you know,
like most retirements, you kindof you know you plan it out and
it was kind of a lead up to it.
When you, when something likethat happens all of a sudden,
it's just like the rugs pulledout from underneath you and you
know, like on one day I'm there,I'm with my buddies and we're,
(05:19):
you know, smoking and joking,having a good time, and then the
next day I'm gone, smoking andjoking, having a good time, and
then the next day I'm gone, andthen it's like I'm never really
back.
And so that's extremelydifficult, especially if you're,
you know, enjoying yourself,you're enjoying your career, and
you know, out of sight, out ofmind, so people just kind of you
(05:41):
don't, you're not reallytalking to anybody anymore.
You'll get the call from thecaptain, like every.
You don't, you're not reallytalking to anybody anymore.
You'll get the the call fromthe captain, like every, you
know, four weeks, and it's notreally that he gives a shit,
it's that he just wants to kindof know when you're coming back.
Right, and in the back of myhead I know that and you know
he's kind of, you know, actinglike hey, how you doing, how's
the recovery, but I know what'sreally going on and you know
(06:04):
what I mean.
So extremely difficult.
Tyra Valeriano (06:08):
I actually just touching on the motor unit and
your accident.
There is a officer I used towork with in my agency who was
in.
He was in the motor unit but hecrashed in his personal bike
and they ended up having toamputate his leg and I have to
give it to him.
In fact, I'm probably going towant to bring him onto the
(06:30):
podcast one day, but he's achamp, he did not let it bother
him, he worked through it.
He got back on patrol, I wantto say within a year, and now
he's a sergeant.
So he yeah.
Robie Poynter (06:40):
That's impressive .
Tyra Valeriano (06:41):
It is.
He has a really cool story, butit just kind of brought me back
to that, and you know.
Let's go back to your medicalretirement.
I've heard a lot of storiesabout how difficult, um, getting
medically retired can be.
I have a close friend whomedically retired, but it took
her four years, maybe a littlemore, and it's not the easiest
process.
(07:01):
Was that the same?
Robie Poynter (07:02):
way for you, the easiest process.
Was that?
The same way for you?
Yeah, no, it's really not.
It's um, I think, because somepeople have kind of taken
advantage of the system.
They um like.
So when, like you know, Icrashed my motorcycle, I had,
you know, tendon surgery on myright thumb, I had my glenorol
humeral joint, my left bicep hadto get reattached, a lot of
(07:30):
stuff, both knees I had to getsurgery on.
So that's kind of a no-brainer.
It's like, well, I mean, if Idon't have mobility I'm a
liability to the agency.
So that took about I'd say, two, two and a half years to go
through all the surgeries andthen trying to do the rehab and
then seeing if I have themobility.
Um, but I have friends that aregoing through it now that you
(07:52):
know they've been kind of thesame thing, three, four years
dealing with this stuff and um,you know it's, it's unfortunate,
they don't.
They don't like, just take itlike a case-by-case basis and
just look at that.
I think that they look at itbroadly and they really push you
to the edge literally.
It's not fun, it's verystressful.
Tyra Valeriano (08:15):
So how did you deal with that Once you got out
and you realized, hey, I'm notgoing to be able to go back.
What toll did that take on you,and what did you do after that?
Robie Poynter (08:26):
Okay, yeah, and that's kind of where this all
begins.
So I'm, you know, sitting in myman cave with you know, I got
one arm, this hand.
I can't do anything with it.
It's got a cast on the shoulderand bicep.
I'm in a sling and I'm a I'm aworkout guy and so I I can't
really do anything other than,like, get on my stationary bike
(08:49):
and just kind of pedal.
But they didn't really want medoing that because they didn't
want me to jar this.
So I had a lot of time to justsit there and think and the the,
the thing that was coming up asI was thinking was how for lack
of a better term horrible I hadreally been to my wife and my
(09:12):
son during, kind of my wholecareer in law enforcement, how
short I was with them, how I hadhigh expectations of them, how
the littlest thing would just,you know, piss me off.
And it really, you know, got methinking like why, what is
(09:33):
going on with it?
Why was I like that?
Why did that happen?
And it started me on this kindof journey of I've got to be the
best person I could be.
I've got to be the best, youknow, husband, I've got to be
the best person I can be.
I've got to be the best, youknow, husband, father, that I
can be.
(09:57):
I have no excuse, because Ithink a lot of times what
happens when, and as you know,when you're in law enforcement,
you you're just grinding, andI've heard you talk about, you
know, just kind of wanting to gohome and just wanting to relax
and sleep and not really notreally do anything.
And so, you know, same with meis that I would, you know, be
going to say 10 to 20 calls anight.
Half the people that I go there, you know, on these calls, they
(10:18):
don't want me there.
I've got to make, you know,decisions, silly decisions a lot
of times, like you know, likethe family disputes, or what
should I do with my son, andit's like, well, you know, I
guess I'll be the dad, here'swhat we're gonna do.
Um, all these decisions, andyou know you're making these
decisions, and then when you gethome you're just like I don't
(10:38):
want to do anything, I'm gonnayou know I'm gonna sit on the
couch, I'm gonna just watch, Idon't, I don't care what we're
having for dinner, just makedinner.
And so I just started thinkingabout that and how horrible that
was.
And so, um started thinkingabout you know, wellness, yoga,
(10:59):
journaling, doing all of the.
I started doing all thosethings and started like really
like doing all of that.
I started doing all thosethings and started like really
like, okay, reading a lot ofself-help, um, really trying to
better myself and it was, youknow, somewhat working and and
um, I was, um also listening toa lot of podcasts and I kept
(11:21):
hearing about plant medicine andI was like that seems
interesting.
But, as you said in the verybeginning, you know law
enforcement, you know we arearresting people for, you know,
having drugs, possession ofdrugs, and you think about, you
know, psilocybin, you thinkabout mushrooms, that's you know
(11:43):
that's a drug.
That's how you know.
I mean, to be honest, I'venever arrested anybody for
psilocybin or mushrooms, but inmy realm that's a drug.
So it was kind of a hard, youknow, transition to think about
it as plant medicine.
But I started researching it.
Okay, this stuff is notaddictive.
(12:05):
Uh, you know a lot of thisstuff that they've been using
for thousands of years.
Tribes have been using it forthousands and thousands of years
.
It's, it's, you know, um,something that has been shown to
work.
The military, you know, uses it.
Um, they use MD.
So I started researching wherecan I go do this?
(12:26):
Because what also was happeningis I was getting frustrated
because I was doing a lot ofwork, I was putting in a lot of
work and I was still.
My fuse was still short.
I was still, you know, notbeing the best husband I could
be, not being the best dad Icould be, and that was
(12:47):
frustrating.
So it was just kind of likeadding on to my already my
frustration with how I treatedthem.
So I was kind of I was beatingmyself up for how I'd been in
the past.
And then I was also likelooking towards the future and
seeing that this wasn't workingand what can I do?
And I was also like lookingtowards the future and seeing
that this wasn't working andwhat can I do?
Wasn't really seeing anythingfor civilians as far as plant
(13:12):
medicine.
I was seeing a lot of stuff forveterans, and so I finally I
found this one place called theSiren Project, and I had thought
it was for firefighters and so,because it was founded by a
firefighter and her story I'lljust give you briefly.
Her story is much like, you know, most first responders um,
(13:37):
stressed out, packing a lot ofstuff in um going, you know,
getting woke up in the middle ofthe night, call to call, seeing
horrible things.
You can't really deal with itbecause you got another call you
got to go to, and so she wasfinding that she was having a
problem with her anger, anxiety,sleep.
(13:58):
She was able to go to one ofthese military plant medicine
retreats and when she was thereshe realized that, oh my gosh,
this is exactly what I've needed.
She told the main facilitatorthere hey, I'm going to start a
(14:19):
nonprofit and I'm going to do itfrom first responders and I'm
going to do it from firstresponders.
And, you know, within a year,I'd like you meaning the
facilitator that was there be mypoint person down in Mexico and
the facilitator's like, okay,yeah, sure, whatever, that
sounds great.
And Angela, who's the name ofthe founder of the project Siren
(14:41):
Project, I'm sorry.
Within a um, cyber project, I'msorry.
Uh, within a year, she had, youknow, established nonprofit.
Um, she had secured fundingbecause part of it is that she
wanted to send first respondersdown there but they don't have
to pay.
So she wanted to like,essentially get funding, um, and
(15:01):
then just say, hey, if you needto get down there, we're going
to send you down to retreat.
We're going to pay for retreat.
So retreats usually around, say, two to four grand right per
person.
So she established all thisstuff.
She did it.
I found them.
I thought of a buddy thatneeded it.
He passed.
I called her.
(15:22):
I said is this for any firstresponder?
Because he passed, I called her.
I said is this for any firstresponder?
Because I think that I coulddefinitely use this.
She said yeah, and I was likeOK, sign me up, I'm in.
So I applied and she, sheexplained well, we're stacked up
until 2025.
And I said, ok, that's fine, Imean no problem.
(15:43):
But I just kept calling everycouple of weeks.
I've got free time, I'm retired.
I knew someone would probablydrop out.
Just for the nature of it, it'snot an easy thing to go down to
Mexico with a bunch of peoplethat you don't know.
It's very scary a little bit.
(16:03):
Um, so around august, july,august in the summertime, I did
my two-week call, just said hey,I just want to keep you on my
radar, keep me on your radar, um, you know, and she's, and she,
I left a message.
She called me back, said hey,can you go september 18th?
And I was like yeah, told mywife I'm going again, very
(16:24):
supportive and um, so then Iwent.
Tyra Valeriano (16:29):
So how was it?
I mean, what happened?
What did you have to do?
What is I?
Robie Poynter (16:34):
mean, okay, from the beginning it's, it's the the
person that's running it downthere.
Her name is Dr Andrea Lucy, andso she worked for the
Department of Defense, theMarines, for like 20 years.
So she had been dealing withveterans up here in the United
States, and how they do it uphere is they treat them with
(16:55):
MDMA.
And so Andrea got to a pointwhere she really wanted to do it
the tribal way, the ceremonialway that she's from Chile, and
so that's kind of what shewanted to get back to, because
she just feels like that's theproper way to do it.
So she came down to Mexico,puerto Vallarta, established a
(17:17):
team and she has a phenomenalprotocol.
So basically, once you're in,you're part of a group that goes
, and I went with fivefirefighters and an EMS guy, so,
and I was the only lawenforcement guy there haven't
been too many law enforcementguys that have gone down and
done it and so there is a wholeprogram that you have to that
(17:43):
you go through.
Obviously, you get medicallychecked through and she has a
workbook that you're goingthrough every day.
Basically, you're settingintentions on what you want to
accomplish.
You know you're not settingexpectations, you're setting
intentions on what you want toaccomplish, because the whole
thing with when you're doingpsilocybin and plant medicine is
(18:04):
to have the product.
You're going to hear a lot ofproper set and setting.
So it's the proper mindset andit's the proper setting, like
where you're at.
So this isn't, you know, somewilly-nilly.
You know you're going to drop abunch of mushrooms and then see
what happens.
Right, this is you are, youknow, meeting with your whole
(18:25):
group.
Every couple weeks we do agroup phone call prior this is
all leading up prior meetingone-on-one.
You have a coach, so you get acoach as well.
Meeting with andrea, so sheknows kind of what your
backstory is.
Um, and you are also, you've gotto be clean.
You, you know no alcohol ifyou're on ssris.
(18:46):
You, you've got to.
You got to get off ssris ifyou're, you know, doing any sort
of drugs, whether whether theybe prescription or anything.
So for me, I drink a little bitof beer, not much Like Friday
drink beer with pizza.
I was doing a lot of edibles soI had a hard time sleeping.
(19:09):
So edibles, every single day Iwas taking edibles, so I had to
cut all that, which wasn'tdifficult.
No caffeine, they really putyou um, suggest that you, your
diet gets really tight, so likea non-inflammation diet, no
sugar.
Um, again, you want your, yourbody clean so that when the
(19:31):
medicine comes through it'sbasically doing its job, it's
not fighting all those otherthings.
You know, I believe if you'reschizophrenic you wouldn't be
going down there.
Psychedelics don't work reallywell with that.
So there's a lead up, there's aplan, and I can shoot you the
(19:56):
actual workbook so you couldhave a good idea too, sure.
And so then basically you gothrough this for I came in a
little bit late because someonedropped out, but I think the
lead up is usually six to eightweeks.
So I think I had about a fiveweek lead up is usually six to
eight weeks, so I think I hadabout a five-week lead up Flew
(20:16):
down to Puerto Vallarta and thenyou know you meet your whole
group the night before it starts.
You guys all go to dinner andyou know everybody's kind of
nervous and you go through andyou meet everybody and you kind
of tell your story and whyyou're there.
And then you meet everybody andyou kind of tell your story and
(20:43):
why you're there, and and thenyou meet, um, the dr andrea, and
then the next day they comepick you up at your hotel and
they take you to this, you know,beautiful mansion on the water,
right?
Um, that's the perfect setting,right, because I was talking
about set and setting, soperfect setting.
Um, you know there's a cookthere.
You're fed um, the first dayyou go and you basically, um,
(21:04):
you meet, there's a medicine man.
So medicine man comes and heintroduced himself and and
blesses us, um with tobacco atthat point, and then not like
he's smoking a Marlboro, buttraditional tobacco, and and
blesses us.
And then the first eveningyou're there, he goes through,
(21:26):
there's, there's obviouslydifferent medicines and one of
them is called Rappe and heexplains we're going to do Rappe
, and basically he shoots it upyour nostrils.
It's wild with this tube andit's supposed to help cleanse
you and it burns like crazy andso you just can't, but you got
to kind of like suck it up andtake it.
(21:48):
And then he puts something inyour eyes which is also supposed
to cleanse you, another plantmedicine, and I'm not clear on
what exactly that was called.
But again, these are all justkind of stair-stepping you into
the next day.
But what it does is, whenthey're going through all these
things.
It shows how much they carebecause they're really taking
(22:11):
care of you as they're doingthis with you.
Much they care because they'rereally taking care of you as
they're doing this with you.
And it, the, the medicine manwas his name was oscar
incredibly intelligent, um, youknow, kind of broke down why
we're taking all these thingsand why we're doing it before we
do the psilocybin.
Um, so do that the first night.
The next day, you fast in themorning and you, um, there's
(22:37):
another like ceremony.
It's very ceremonial, it's verytribal, uh, it's very beautiful
, and so you do a anotherceremony, then you do a rose
petal bath and then we went to acovered patio and the covered
patio had seven beds, um, andbasically the, the medicine man
(23:01):
has the, the psilocybin.
It's in a powder form and hemixes it with orange juice and
they kind of give you, um, alittle bit of an interview based
on you know, have you ever donethis before?
How much do you weigh All thatstuff?
And they base their dosage onthat.
(23:22):
So the dosages were, yeah, likefive grams.
It's called a hero's dose.
Like most people, when they'rescrewing around with mushrooms,
they'll take a couple grams ortwo, like an eighth or something
, two and a half grams, so ahero's dose is a pretty
significant dose.
So, um, he mixes them up, doesa blessing.
(23:45):
We're all sitting at the edgeof our little bed, we drink our,
our psilocybin and orange juice, um, and then they sit you back
down, they lay you down, theyput eye shades on and, about 30
minutes in, you start goingthrough your journey.
And do you want me to explainmy journey?
Tyra Valeriano (24:05):
Sure, let's hear it.
Robie Poynter (24:08):
All right.
So my intention going down wasI wanted to obviously the
overall was be a better person,right, but I had intentions of I
wanted to communicate with mygrandparents.
I want to communicate with mydad, who's passed away.
I wanted to have acommunication with my, my wife.
I wanted to communicate with myson, and that was really.
(24:31):
That was really it.
That was kind of like, okay,okay, this is what I want to do.
Um, so, 30, 30 minutes in, I,you know, start seeing lights
and you start, you feel yourmuscles twitch a little bit.
And let me just also prefacethis with I'm very conservative.
Um, I'm not a drug guy, I'm not, you know, uh, that at all.
(24:53):
I'm extremely conservative.
I'm extremely, um, I think alot about what I put into my
body and, you know, food intakeI'm tight, I'm dialed my food
intake, so I didn't take any ofthis lightly.
And it wasn't like, um, I'mgonna go down to mexico and, you
know, shroom my ass off or likethat it it was.
(25:13):
I want to go down there and Iwant to, um, see that this helps
me and and put this in asanother tool in my toolbox.
So start getting into thejourney.
Um, you know, start seeing somelights, feeling my muscles
twitch a little bit, so I knewit was starting to affect me and
(25:35):
then pretty much boom rightinto it.
I, I started talking to mygrandpa and which was, you know,
incredible in that, you know,like he's been dead for several
years, but I wanted to explainto him and my grandma how much I
appreciated them and how muchthey meant to me and how I have
(25:59):
kind of structured my life as Iwatched them, you know, as they
had their life together, and I,you know, explain to him hey,
I'm sorry if you think this isbad, I'm doing this, but if I
didn't do this, I wouldn't beable to talk to you and share
this with you and explain thisto you, because when my grandpa
(26:19):
died I was 20.
I didn't really have any lifeexperience.
I couldn't share with him howmuch I appreciated him, nor my
grandma, and so this was very,very, very real.
It was like I was communicatingwith my grandparents, and some
people may say, well, that'sdrug-induced and blah, blah,
blah.
If you go through this, youknow you were communicating with
(26:43):
them.
It's a different realm.
And then I was able to talk tomy grandma and I explained to
her how much I loved her andthat when she did, I was there
when she died, and so I wasn'table to really like share all
these things when she died,because she was just not in a
good state.
So I was able to do that andshare that with her, which kept
(27:04):
seeing this dark figure, thisvery scary thing, was popping up
.
And so when you're preparingfor a journey like this, they
tell you whatever comes up, youknow, and if it's scary, you've
(27:28):
got to lean into it.
You can't run away from it,you've got to lean into it.
So I was like, all right, well,I guess it's time for me
leaning into this dark, scarything it's on.
And so I would go towards thisand inevitably it would change
into something good.
So it would be like, okay,here's the dark thing, I'm going
(27:50):
towards it, and then it wouldchange into something good
within my journey.
I'm going towards it and thenit would change into something
good within my journey.
And so my takeaway from thatwas that you know, you've got to
in life, you've got to leaninto really hard things, because
most of the time it's notnearly as bad as you think that
it's going to be, and we make upa lot of the stuff in our head,
but it was just interestingthroughout this journey that
(28:15):
that kept popping up.
It never turned out bad, italways turned into something
good.
So the next part was Icommunicated with my dad and so,
um, when my dad left or, I'msorry, when my mom left, I was
seven and she stayed friendswith my grandparents, and so my
dad you know, I was, I'm in thisjourney with my dad and he told
me he's like you know, thatreally bothered me, that you
(28:37):
didn't, you know, say anythingabout that.
And I was like, well, you know,I was seven years old, I I
didn't know any better, but nowthat I'm older, I I'm sorry that
that happened to you and I'mand I can see where that would
bother you and I was just like,hey, I was just doing the best I
could do.
And he was like, yeah, I wasdoing the best I could do too.
(28:59):
So during the journey also, allthese little messages of very
common, all this stuff we knowdoing the best you can do or
your parents are doing the bestthat they can do, we all know
that stuff on the surface level.
But when I was in this I, Ifelt it like, and so now I'm
(29:20):
like, okay, yeah, I am doing thebest I can do and you are doing
the best you can do.
And it was a, it was a feeling,more than just like this
surface, saying, uh, the nextpart was really the only thing
that had to do with lawenforcement, because and here's
the thing that I you know, Italked to a lot of guys that
(29:40):
have gone through this is theythink that you know, that one
call is the thing that's justput me over the top, or this job
has just crushed me.
And you know, it was weird withthis.
It was just this, this, this isthe one thing that happened
with law enforcement.
Or I don't want to go do thatbecause I've seen some dark
(30:00):
things, man, and I, you know, Idon't want that to come up, and
you know we've all seen darkthings and I'm not I'm not
trying to belittle that, but, um, most of the things that you
see when you go on thesejourneys have very little to do
with law enforcement.
They have a lot to do with yourchildhood.
(30:21):
So when it was finally time forme to retire, they said, hey,
you got to bring your gun down,you got to turn it into the
regional training center and Iwas like, all right, you know,
no problem, I've got another gun, I've got other guns I don't.
All right, you know, no problem, I've got another gun, I've got
(30:41):
other guns I don't need.
You know, that's fine.
So I drove down the regionaltraining center and I go to get
the gun out of my trunk and um,and I just I lost it.
I was like, oh my god, I'm, youknow, basically crying here at
the regional training center andit's like I've got all kinds of
other agencies walking aroundbehind me and people that I know
from other agencies, and I gotone, a buddy, from a different
agency.
He's like Whoa, what's going on?
And I'm like, dude, I don'tknow.
(31:05):
And the thing is, I think whatit was was that you know, the
gun was the thing that was gonnaget me home.
And every single night when Ipulled a car over four deep on
East 14th and 165th and my coverwasn't there yet, my gun was
gonna get me home.
(31:26):
And now I've got a, I've got toturn it in, I got to give it up
, and so I was crushed.
And this is going to tie intomy journey here in a second.
So I turned it in and I thoughtI'd put that through.
I thought I was done with thatand but I guess I wasn't,
because during the journey thatit came up and so again, I
(31:54):
started just bawling during the,during the journey, um, just,
I've never cried so hard in mylife.
I could just feel the air goingout of me.
And what ended up happening?
This sounds a lot of thisstuff's going to sound really
odd, but what ended up happeningduring the journey is there was
I had a funeral for the gun andit was like this okay, now it's
(32:16):
now, it's now it's finally over, and now you are, um, ready to
move on to the next chapter ofyour life, and basically it was
like you're done with lawenforcement, um, and that
funeral was like the ending forand if it just once that
happened, I felt so at ease inthe, in the journey, also
(32:38):
throughout the journey isthey're playing music this whole
time they're playing music,they're playing tribal music,
like they're singing, and so youare, you're, you're getting
taken for this.
Really it's a wonderful ride,and you have male singing, you
have female singing, and so theythey kind of they're steering
this journey too.
So the next thing, um put thegun in funeral.
(33:03):
All done, and then I connectedwith my wife, um, who has just
been so supportive of methroughout my whole career.
She's a dispatcher, so therewere times where you know she
was sending me on calls, whereyou know 245 or you know like,
and not knowing what she wassending me into.
So she's been through a lot ofstuff too and I just, in that
(33:28):
journey, I was able to let herknow that you know, we will be
together forever, um, and thatit was just this blissful
feeling of love that I had.
That, you know, I'm not evennecessarily talking about this
lifetime, I'm saying forever Um.
And you know, and I'm notthat's not usually how I think
(33:50):
or anything but within thejourney that's how I felt and it
was an incredible feeling to beable to share that with her.
Again, this stuff I know itprobably sounds very bizarre,
but when you're in it it's veryreal and it was very necessary
to kind of put that behind.
(34:13):
Necessary to kind of put thatbehind.
And I wrapped it up kind ofwith my son, who's 20 years old,
but he's felt the brunt of myyou know, anger, high
expectations, just you know,short fuse throughout his whole
(34:33):
life.
And you know, I explained tohim that you know, I'm I'm
basically I'm sorry and thatfrom from this day forth, it's
we're turning over a new leaf.
And he, you know, shared withme.
I get it, you know.
Again, it was I'm doing thebest I can do.
That's what he said.
(34:53):
And I said, you know, and I'mdoing the best I can do too, and
so it was a very simple butheartfelt feeling that we both
had.
And then, after when I was donewith all this, I talked to my
wife, I talked to my son, Iexplained everything to them,
and so it was.
It's very interesting, and Iknow that I'm kind of missing
(35:19):
some of the pieces to it, butmedically, there's a doctor
there, you know, because youdon't want to at least I didn't
I didn't want to go intosomething that was hey, we're
going to take you into thejungle, um, we're going to bury
you up to your neck, you'regoing to take mushrooms.
This was, you know, checked bythe doctor prior to to going
(35:43):
into the psilocybin um journey.
And then, when you're done,you're there to your check,
there's a doctor there checkingyou.
Um, it was very um, I felt verygood about it.
It was, it was literally it was, it was very.
I felt very good about it.
It was, it was literally it was.
It was life changing.
Because once you go throughthat, that's just part of the
deal, you know, because when yougo through it I could see that
(36:06):
what my life really should belike.
So I have this like North starand obviously I can't be like
that all the time, like I don'tlive in a mansion, I'm not in
the proper setting all the timeLife happens and I you know I
was, I was in the ideal setting,right, so everything's
perfectly set up.
I'm getting fed, but I do havethis North Star now that you
(36:31):
know you strive to reach andthere's ways to do it and you
shorten the times that are roughwith all the tools that you
learn.
So throughout the retreatyou're also, you know you're
doing yoga, she's giving you,we're doing different little
workshops too to help you whenyou get back.
Tyra Valeriano (36:53):
So I have a lot of questions.
I have a lot of questions, butI want to first make a couple of
observations based on yourstory.
So first, you did mention thatthere's a lot of firefighters
that go there.
Are these firefighters who arealready retired or are they
still currently working asfirefighters?
(37:13):
What is the majority of thepeople that go to these um
projects?
What?
What is their current statuswith their agency?
Robie Poynter (37:21):
they're all the ones that I went with are active
.
Most of them are active.
Um, this is another thing thatI was thinking a lot about is,
you know, like law enforcementagain, drugs we arrest people
for we have a little differentmindset than most other first
responders, right, I mean,firefighters aren't arresting
(37:42):
anybody for drugs.
I mean they'll arrest them forarson, but it's different, and
so it's a little more difficultfor law enforcement to make that
transition into looking at thislike this is medicine, this is
really medicine.
So that's a good question,though.
Tyra Valeriano (38:01):
Yeah.
So the reason why I ask that isbecause I'm listening to your
story and you went in retiredand, of course, some of the
guests that I have talked to,they talk about their journey
after law enforcement, thestruggles that they've had, and
I can see how something likethis would be beneficial for
them.
But you know you also have lawenforcement officers that are
(38:21):
still police officers, whereverthey're at, who are struggling
and you're right, we have thatmindset that, oh, what the heck
Like I'm not going to do that.
You know I'm going to look likea crazy guy.
I'm over here dealing with themeth addict that's, you know, on
freaking corner of Broadway andGrimes, and you know I'm taking
him to jail and they're actingall crazy and here I come with
(38:42):
my story and people are going tothink that I'm just as crazy.
So, being that this is a medicaltreatment, what in California?
Specifically?
Because I know that in I toldyou prior to the podcast I have
an aunt who is a psychologistand she is from the last that I
had talked to her.
She's doing this study in Texasto medicate her clients with
(39:05):
psilocybin, but I don't knowwhat is going on with that.
As of right now.
It's not legal right now.
So what is the?
What is it that's surrounding aproject like this in California
, and how do first respondersget approved for something like
this?
Robie Poynter (39:23):
Yeah, that's the, that's the thing.
I think Oregon, you can do itwith medical approval.
I think Colorado, maybeCalifornia, no.
So basically, the SIREN projectfacilitates.
You know, hey, we're going tosend you down there.
What the doctor does down thereis what the doctor does.
(39:46):
They're not, you know, sayingthat you need to do this.
This is you know what I mean.
They're not doing anything likethat, Um, they're just
providing you the venue, um, togo down there.
So, yeah, California, evenstill, I mean that's, I don't
believe that you can get, um,like a medical release to do it,
which and I can give you, Igive you my reasons why I think
(40:10):
that it's not legal.
And if you'd like to hear that,Sure.
Okay, um, well, it's not a verygood business model because you
can go like, for instance, meI've done all kinds of stuff
yoga, you know, talk therapy,I've done all kinds of stuff.
(40:30):
None of it worked and I'll behonest with you, none of it
would have worked.
My mind was so calloused overthe neuroplasticity was just
muscled over, and I'll tell youwhy.
I think that happened, happen.
But business model wise, if Igo down and I do one treatment
(40:52):
right when, you know, when youhave SSR, you got to take those,
you know, every single day, youknow, like it's just the
prescription drug companiesdon't want something like this
to to work for people.
They want to be able to put itinto a pill, they want to be
able to, you know, say you needto take three of these every
(41:18):
single day, or blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, or you need to see
the therapist three times a week.
So that's really, I think,because they're close to doing
it with MDMA, they're very close, but I just, you know it
doesn't make a business modelsense to them.
They're not thinking about itlike hey, we can really help
(41:38):
some people.
And you know, that's not,that's just not how it is Right,
business wise.
So that's that's my theory.
We're going to give you avaccine that doesn't work, but
we're not going to give you amedicine that's been around for
7,000 years that works.
It can really help a lot ofpeople, and it could help people
(42:14):
before they get to.
You know they've got a gun intheir mouth, that type of thing.
It really reboots your system,clears your cash out.
You kind of just go, oh shit,okay, why have I been so worried
about that?
That's nothing.
It's amazing, amazing.
Tyra Valeriano (42:29):
You know, and I think that it's a very
interesting story.
I mean, like I said in thebeginning, this is a perspective
and a take that most lawenforcement officers are
probably not going to be veryopen to, and I like this because
I think that this is what Iwant to bring to the podcast.
This is what I want to put outthere is that not everybody's
journey is the same.
(42:50):
The podcast this is what I wantto put out there is that not
everybody's journey is the same.
So my question for you is onceyou completed this project, what
did it do for you for your lifeafterwards?
What was it?
What was the changes that yousaw in your life?
Robie Poynter (43:02):
That's a great question.
So when you get done, you gothrough what's called the
integration and the integrationis the most important thing.
Like what I did, that's like10% of it.
Integration is coming back andreally kind of taking action on
everything that you've justlearned.
And so part of my integrationwas like coming back and, and
(43:27):
you know, telling my and my wife, you know she's like I came
back and I was a completelydifferent, relaxed, not on edge
person and she's like whoa, whatthe heck is going on with you?
Because we've been together for23 years, I am just on edge all
the time, like, you know,always doing something, that
(43:48):
type of person, and I wascompletely relaxed.
A little side note Also when Icame back, I had no desire and I
still don't, and I'm not sayingthat I this will be forever but
I had no desire to drinkalcohol, no desire to do any
edibles, and it was kind of likethis weird, weird thing that
(44:11):
not that I drank a lot, but Ijust think I realized that I had
been kind of masking thingswith drinking a few beers, um,
and masking things with with umtaking those edibles and so, um,
yeah, now I don't even knowdesire.
So that was kind of a littledifficult for my wife, because
(44:32):
once a week there's a brewery byour house.
We'd go to the brewery, wewould drink a few beers and we
would have these like justincredible talks, right.
And so she's like, well, are wenot going to go do that anymore
?
And I'm like, well, I'll stillgo.
But you know, I don't, I justdon't feel like drinking, I
don't, I don't want to, um, andso.
(44:54):
So that was kind of hard forher, you know, cause she was
like who's this dude, who's thisguy?
That came back, so we had towork through some stuff, um, and
so part of the integration is,you know, I've always wanted to
take transcendental meditationand really get into that
(45:16):
meditation, Wanted to do it foryears, and so I just told her
hey, you know what, why don't wetake this together?
So we took this transcendentalmeditation course together and
we do it every single day, twicea day, and it's been phenomenal
.
So those talks that I wastalking about after the beers,
we have those talks every day,like we meditate together in the
(45:36):
morning and then we have thesejust really good talks.
And which was, which has beengreat is you have to take what
you've learned and you've got tobasically figure out what your
(45:58):
routine is going to be to getyou closer to that spot, like a
morning routine.
So for me, I get up and I read,I journal, exercise, meditate.
These are all the things thatyou need to be doing to get in
the proper headspace.
So I was also like I wasn'tquite there as far as like my
(46:23):
expectations on my family, andso I've always had these like
too high of expectations,especially for my wife, and one
day I was pissed this was afterI got back.
I was pissed because she didn'tdo something that I thought,
you know, everybody should justknow to do.
(46:44):
You know, like you should justknow that it's the right thing
to do.
We gotten into a little bit ofan argument, meditated and I had
thought about you know, likewhat?
Why am I like this?
What is it?
Is it possibly because my momleft when I was seven and I have
an abandonment issue orsomething, and so I, you know,
(47:04):
started doing a bunch ofresearch and, lo and behold,
every single thing that I havedone, you know, towards my wife
and my son as far as settinghigh expectations, um, basically
pushing them away, is because Iwas waiting for them to both
like bail on me, because that'swhat my mom did when I was seven
.
So from basically the time I wasseven I had been pushing people
(47:28):
away, overcompensating withstuff.
And then I had to go tell her.
I was like, hey, you know, Ijust realized that I've been
wrong for like about the last 23years on pretty much everything
.
And you know she said, yeah, no, I've known that you've had
this issue for about a monthsince we've been going out.
(47:51):
I just I didn't want to open upthese old wounds, so I just
took it, and so that was hard,that was hard for her and it was
hard for me, and so.
But the bigger point is I wouldhave never come to this if I
hadn't gone on that journey.
My mindset was not even closeto that.
(48:12):
It completely opened up my mindfor lack of a better term but
just radically open to thingsnow and compared to how I was in
the past, and so I'm extremelygrateful for that.
Like that, that literallychanged my life.
(48:32):
I look at things through acompletely new lens to what it
was in the past.
I had just much like when weget a physical injury and we.
You know, I blew out my knee.
I overcompensate, so now myleft hip hurts.
We've muscled through this stuffMental health-wise.
(48:54):
I think.
You know we do the same thing.
You know, like when I was sevenmy mom bailed, I was
abandonment issues, but I justmuscled through it, just kept
muscling through it.
Then you get into this job andthen you're just packing it in
and that I mean, it's just.
You know, one call to the nextand you can't even worry about
(49:14):
that call that.
You know this little boy washit on east 14th, the same age
as your son, um, and you got totake the report, you got to sit
in the morgue with it, like allthose things.
You just you got to go to thenext call, um, so you just pack
it in, pack it in, pack it inand then it manifests into, you
know, anger, anxiety, insomnia.
(49:35):
So yeah, I don't know if Ianswered your question, but I
talked a lot.
Tyra Valeriano (49:42):
No, no, that's fine.
It's been interesting.
We are running out of time andI'm curious, before we end our
episode today, what would youwant to share with listeners
based on your experience?
Robie Poynter (49:56):
I would share that.
You know, just be open, be opento the possibility of plant
medicine, because it literallychanged my life.
I've really have tried a lot ofdifferent things and it's.
I know that it's there's astigma, there's a.
There's a stigma with mentalhealth, but there's, you know,
obviously a stigma with plantmedicine.
(50:17):
But I am very much like mostguys in law enforcement and I'm
not, you know, some wavy gravyguy or woo woo guy.
I just the reason that I'm evenon here is because if one
person's like, wow, okay, I feellike that too, I should, I
(50:39):
should explore that.
That's really what I want to doand I am so grateful that you
have the courage to like talk tosomeone like me, because there
there's really not, there's nota lot of people in law
enforcement that are talkingabout this.
Um, there's military is talkingabout it.
There's a there's one other guyin um, massachusetts who's
(51:02):
talking about it, lieutenant umsarco gregarian.
But there's really not a lot,and I think that it can really
benefit people If you kind ofmuck past the stigma of it.
Please be open to it.
Look at the Siren Project.
They want to help.
They're sending people down,you know, at no cost.
(51:25):
So that's what I would say, andthank you very much.
Tyra Valeriano (51:29):
So that's what I would say, and thank you very
much yeah you're welcome, Ithink I mean I was honestly, I'm
not going to lie I wasintrigued because I was thinking
this is very different and,just like most listeners, I'm
sure they're going to think thisis very different, but for me I
feel that it's important.
On the topic of mental healthand wellness, because not
everybody just like my story.
(51:50):
We don't struggle with thingstechnically in the law
enforcement side, but mine wasmore personal and a lot of
people are out there not knowinghow to deal with the issues
that they're facing and in thelaw enforcement realm, this is a
hot topic right now.
Mental health and wellness is ahot topic because of the things
that we go through the thingsthat we see and nobody really
(52:11):
knows how to deal with it.
So I am completely open toanything in this space because,
even though it's not foreveryone, there is, just like
you said, maybe somebody outthere who's going to be like hey
, you know what?
I'm interested in this, let mejust look at it and who knows,
maybe they'll do it and it'llchange their life, and that's
all that really matters.
And you know no judgment here.
I think it's pretty crazy.
(52:33):
Like I said, I have a gnatwho's doing this.
So it's not that it's veryforeign to me the idea of
treating people with plantmedicine, but I think in the law
enforcement space it is verydifferent.
It's very hard to open up yourmind to think that this is
acceptable and that this is goodfor you because of what we are
(52:55):
and what we stand for and whatwe, you know, enforce on people.
So I'm very open to it and Iappreciate your time and for
sharing your journey with us.
I think it's great.
Is there any points of contactthat you have, in case some of
the listeners would like toreach out to you?
Robie Poynter (53:13):
Yeah, absolutely.
I'm on Facebook at just RobPointer P-O-Y-N-T-E-R.
Instagram at R-A-W-B underscorezone.
Twitter at Rob Zone 1.
Linkedin Rob Pointer and thenthe sirenprojectorg.
Tyra Valeriano (53:40):
Well, thank you so much, Rob.
I again appreciate your timeFor the listeners out there.
I hope you guys got a good doseof perspective and maybe some
variety into your toolbox.
As always.
Thank you guys for turning in,be safe and I'll see you on the
next one.
Thank you for joining me onChapter Blue.
If you enjoyed today's episode,be sure to follow and tag me on
(54:02):
social media and share withyour friends and fellow officers
.
If you're interested in joiningan episode, I'd love for you to
be a part of the conversation.
Until next time, stay safe,take care of yourself and
remember you're never alone inthis journey.
Welcome to Chapter Blue, the podcast where
we discuss the world of lawenforcement through an honest
conversation on tough orcontroversial topics, real
stories, perspectives andexperience from officers all
around the world.
Whether you're here forinsights on mental health,
self-care, work-life balance,getting into law enforcement,
getting out of law enforcement,or just trying to learn about
(00:21):
personal and professionalchallenges officers face every
day, you've come to the rightplace.
I'm your host, Tyra Valeriano,and whether I'm going solo or
speaking with a guest, eachepisode will discuss different
aspects of life behind the badge.
Let's turn the page and stepinto Chapter Blue.
Welcome back to another episodeof Chapter Blue.
(00:42):
Today's episode is a littledifferent and it's a taken
perspective I have not yetdiscussed on the podcast, but it
very much ties into mentalhealth and wellness.
For first responders, I'd liketo welcome Rob Pointer out of
California, who is a retireddeputy sheriff with a very
different approach on bridgingthe gap between mental health
(01:02):
treatments and other options wemay not have considered before.
So thank you for making time tobe here today.
Rob, If you would share some ofyour background with our
listeners and what you're doingtoday.
Robie Poynter (01:14):
So happy to be here and I'm very grateful that
you're letting me share this onyour podcast.
My name is Rob Pointer.
I kind of the 50,000 foot viewis.
I grew up in a law enforcement.
My dad was a deputy sheriff for26 years in San Mateo County so
I grew up around lawenforcement.
He was mostly a homicidedetective so I really saw like
(01:39):
the high stress, the pressure oflaw enforcement, the pressure
of law enforcement.
He was also a very highfunctioning alcoholic.
So when I was about seven mymom split and then my dad raised
me from seven on Solo dad.
Law enforcement was there forall my games and all that stuff.
(01:59):
When it was about time 18 to 20years old to decide what I
wanted to do, I wanted to be inlaw enforcement because I loved
watching him and the camaraderiehe had with his buddies and
that was super cool.
And on the other side of it, Ididn't like the alcohol part of
(02:20):
it and how he handled his stress.
So I kind of came to thiscrossroads about 2021.
I started kind of testing and Iwas also heavily into health
and fitness at that time, doingbodybuilding shows, and I chose
to go the health and fitnessroute and I started making money
.
And I started I, you know,worked for one of the largest
(02:43):
health club chains in the world,became a district manager, then
a regional manager, then endedup owning my own club.
Subsequently, when I owned myown club, one of the members her
husband was the undersheriff ofAlameda County, which is, I'd
say, a medium-sized agency athousand sworn, I'd say
(03:07):
medium-sized agency, a thousandsworn started talking to her
about really what my passion wasand but my concerns, and she
shared with me.
Well, you know, lawenforcement's not like that
anymore.
That's not how they handlestress and they don't, they
don't go do that stuff anymore.
And I was like, oh okay, well,let me, let me talk to your
husband, talk to theundersheriff, you know.
Again he was like, no, we don't, we don't do it like that
(03:28):
anymore.
And I was like, oh okay.
So subsequently I got into theacademy, loved it.
Let me kind of back up a littlebit.
I came home and I told my wife,hey, I'm going to, you know,
I'm going to apply.
And I'd never shared with herthat I wanted to do this and be
in law enforcement.
So it was kind of blindsidedher and she's like what are you
(03:48):
talking about.
You've never even talked aboutthis before, but like everything
she's, she's always beensupportive of me and we went
down this road.
And you know, in in our agencystart off in a jail, did that
for a few years, then you go outto different duty stations.
So I went to the airport, thenI went to patrol, then I started
(04:11):
doing different specialoperations groups, you know
community policing special dutyunit.
Subsequently I ended up in themotor unit and then ended up
crashing.
The motor ripped my thumbtendon, ripped my shoulder, and
(04:31):
then I just I could not get themobility back and subsequently I
retired, medically retired,because of a shoulder injury.
So do you have questions?
Tyra Valeriano (04:42):
Yeah, so how long were you with that agency
before that happened?
Robie Poynter (04:49):
About 14 and a half years.
Tyra Valeriano (04:51):
Oh man, that must have been tough to have to
medically retire after beingthere for 14 years.
Robie Poynter (04:58):
It was very difficult in that, you know,
like most retirements, you kindof you know you plan it out and
it was kind of a lead up to it.
When you, when something likethat happens all of a sudden,
it's just like the rugs pulledout from underneath you and you
know, like on one day I'm there,I'm with my buddies and we're,
(05:19):
you know, smoking and joking,having a good time, and then the
next day I'm gone, smoking andjoking, having a good time, and
then the next day I'm gone, andthen it's like I'm never really
back.
And so that's extremelydifficult, especially if you're,
you know, enjoying yourself,you're enjoying your career, and
you know, out of sight, out ofmind, so people just kind of you
(05:41):
don't, you're not reallytalking to anybody anymore.
You'll get the call from thecaptain, like every.
You don't, you're not reallytalking to anybody anymore.
You'll get the the call fromthe captain, like every, you
know, four weeks, and it's notreally that he gives a shit,
it's that he just wants to kindof know when you're coming back.
Right, and in the back of myhead I know that and you know
he's kind of, you know, actinglike hey, how you doing, how's
the recovery, but I know what'sreally going on and you know
(06:04):
what I mean.
So extremely difficult.
Tyra Valeriano (06:08):
I actually just touching on the motor unit and
your accident.
There is a officer I used towork with in my agency who was
in.
He was in the motor unit but hecrashed in his personal bike
and they ended up having toamputate his leg and I have to
give it to him.
In fact, I'm probably going towant to bring him onto the
(06:30):
podcast one day, but he's achamp, he did not let it bother
him, he worked through it.
He got back on patrol, I wantto say within a year, and now
he's a sergeant.
So he yeah.
Robie Poynter (06:40):
That's impressive .
Tyra Valeriano (06:41):
It is.
He has a really cool story, butit just kind of brought me back
to that, and you know.
Let's go back to your medicalretirement.
I've heard a lot of storiesabout how difficult, um, getting
medically retired can be.
I have a close friend whomedically retired, but it took
her four years, maybe a littlemore, and it's not the easiest
process.
(07:01):
Was that the same?
Robie Poynter (07:02):
way for you, the easiest process.
Was that?
The same way for you?
Yeah, no, it's really not.
It's um, I think, because somepeople have kind of taken
advantage of the system.
They um like.
So when, like you know, Icrashed my motorcycle, I had,
you know, tendon surgery on myright thumb, I had my glenorol
humeral joint, my left bicep hadto get reattached, a lot of
(07:30):
stuff, both knees I had to getsurgery on.
So that's kind of a no-brainer.
It's like, well, I mean, if Idon't have mobility I'm a
liability to the agency.
So that took about I'd say, two, two and a half years to go
through all the surgeries andthen trying to do the rehab and
then seeing if I have themobility.
Um, but I have friends that aregoing through it now that you
(07:52):
know they've been kind of thesame thing, three, four years
dealing with this stuff and um,you know it's, it's unfortunate,
they don't.
They don't like, just take itlike a case-by-case basis and
just look at that.
I think that they look at itbroadly and they really push you
to the edge literally.
It's not fun, it's verystressful.
Tyra Valeriano (08:15):
So how did you deal with that Once you got out
and you realized, hey, I'm notgoing to be able to go back.
What toll did that take on you,and what did you do after that?
Robie Poynter (08:26):
Okay, yeah, and that's kind of where this all
begins.
So I'm, you know, sitting in myman cave with you know, I got
one arm, this hand.
I can't do anything with it.
It's got a cast on the shoulderand bicep.
I'm in a sling and I'm a I'm aworkout guy and so I I can't
really do anything other than,like, get on my stationary bike
(08:49):
and just kind of pedal.
But they didn't really want medoing that because they didn't
want me to jar this.
So I had a lot of time to justsit there and think and the the,
the thing that was coming up asI was thinking was how for lack
of a better term horrible I hadreally been to my wife and my
(09:12):
son during, kind of my wholecareer in law enforcement, how
short I was with them, how I hadhigh expectations of them, how
the littlest thing would just,you know, piss me off.
And it really, you know, got methinking like why, what is
(09:33):
going on with it?
Why was I like that?
Why did that happen?
And it started me on this kindof journey of I've got to be the
best person I could be.
I've got to be the best, youknow, husband, I've got to be
the best person I can be.
I've got to be the best, youknow, husband, father, that I
can be.
(09:57):
I have no excuse, because Ithink a lot of times what
happens when, and as you know,when you're in law enforcement,
you you're just grinding, andI've heard you talk about, you
know, just kind of wanting to gohome and just wanting to relax
and sleep and not really notreally do anything.
And so, you know, same with meis that I would, you know, be
going to say 10 to 20 calls anight.
Half the people that I go there, you know, on these calls, they
(10:18):
don't want me there.
I've got to make, you know,decisions, silly decisions a lot
of times, like you know, likethe family disputes, or what
should I do with my son, andit's like, well, you know, I
guess I'll be the dad, here'swhat we're gonna do.
Um, all these decisions, andyou know you're making these
decisions, and then when you gethome you're just like I don't
(10:38):
want to do anything, I'm gonnayou know I'm gonna sit on the
couch, I'm gonna just watch, Idon't, I don't care what we're
having for dinner, just makedinner.
And so I just started thinkingabout that and how horrible that
was.
And so, um started thinkingabout you know, wellness, yoga,
(10:59):
journaling, doing all of the.
I started doing all thosethings and started like really
like doing all of that.
I started doing all thosethings and started like really
like, okay, reading a lot ofself-help, um, really trying to
better myself and it was, youknow, somewhat working and and
um, I was, um also listening toa lot of podcasts and I kept
(11:21):
hearing about plant medicine andI was like that seems
interesting.
But, as you said in the verybeginning, you know law
enforcement, you know we arearresting people for, you know,
having drugs, possession ofdrugs, and you think about, you
know, psilocybin, you thinkabout mushrooms, that's you know
(11:43):
that's a drug.
That's how you know.
I mean, to be honest, I'venever arrested anybody for
psilocybin or mushrooms, but inmy realm that's a drug.
So it was kind of a hard, youknow, transition to think about
it as plant medicine.
But I started researching it.
Okay, this stuff is notaddictive.
(12:05):
Uh, you know a lot of thisstuff that they've been using
for thousands of years.
Tribes have been using it forthousands and thousands of years
.
It's, it's, you know, um,something that has been shown to
work.
The military, you know, uses it.
Um, they use MD.
So I started researching wherecan I go do this?
(12:26):
Because what also was happeningis I was getting frustrated
because I was doing a lot ofwork, I was putting in a lot of
work and I was still.
My fuse was still short.
I was still, you know, notbeing the best husband I could
be, not being the best dad Icould be, and that was
(12:47):
frustrating.
So it was just kind of likeadding on to my already my
frustration with how I treatedthem.
So I was kind of I was beatingmyself up for how I'd been in
the past.
And then I was also likelooking towards the future and
seeing that this wasn't workingand what can I do?
And I was also like lookingtowards the future and seeing
that this wasn't working andwhat can I do?
Wasn't really seeing anythingfor civilians as far as plant
(13:12):
medicine.
I was seeing a lot of stuff forveterans, and so I finally I
found this one place called theSiren Project, and I had thought
it was for firefighters and so,because it was founded by a
firefighter and her story I'lljust give you briefly.
Her story is much like, you know, most first responders um,
(13:37):
stressed out, packing a lot ofstuff in um going, you know,
getting woke up in the middle ofthe night, call to call, seeing
horrible things.
You can't really deal with itbecause you got another call you
got to go to, and so she wasfinding that she was having a
problem with her anger, anxiety,sleep.
(13:58):
She was able to go to one ofthese military plant medicine
retreats and when she was thereshe realized that, oh my gosh,
this is exactly what I've needed.
She told the main facilitatorthere hey, I'm going to start a
(14:19):
nonprofit and I'm going to do itfrom first responders and I'm
going to do it from firstresponders.
And, you know, within a year,I'd like you meaning the
facilitator that was there be mypoint person down in Mexico and
the facilitator's like, okay,yeah, sure, whatever, that
sounds great.
And Angela, who's the name ofthe founder of the project Siren
(14:41):
Project, I'm sorry.
Within a um, cyber project, I'msorry.
Uh, within a year, she had, youknow, established nonprofit.
Um, she had secured fundingbecause part of it is that she
wanted to send first respondersdown there but they don't have
to pay.
So she wanted to like,essentially get funding, um, and
(15:01):
then just say, hey, if you needto get down there, we're going
to send you down to retreat.
We're going to pay for retreat.
So retreats usually around, say, two to four grand right per
person.
So she established all thisstuff.
She did it.
I found them.
I thought of a buddy thatneeded it.
He passed.
I called her.
(15:22):
I said is this for any firstresponder?
Because he passed, I called her.
I said is this for any firstresponder?
Because I think that I coulddefinitely use this.
She said yeah, and I was likeOK, sign me up, I'm in.
So I applied and she, sheexplained well, we're stacked up
until 2025.
And I said, ok, that's fine, Imean no problem.
(15:43):
But I just kept calling everycouple of weeks.
I've got free time, I'm retired.
I knew someone would probablydrop out.
Just for the nature of it, it'snot an easy thing to go down to
Mexico with a bunch of peoplethat you don't know.
It's very scary a little bit.
(16:03):
Um, so around august, july,august in the summertime, I did
my two-week call, just said hey,I just want to keep you on my
radar, keep me on your radar, um, you know, and she's, and she,
I left a message.
She called me back, said hey,can you go september 18th?
And I was like yeah, told mywife I'm going again, very
(16:24):
supportive and um, so then Iwent.
Tyra Valeriano (16:29):
So how was it?
I mean, what happened?
What did you have to do?
What is I?
Robie Poynter (16:34):
mean, okay, from the beginning it's, it's the the
person that's running it downthere.
Her name is Dr Andrea Lucy, andso she worked for the
Department of Defense, theMarines, for like 20 years.
So she had been dealing withveterans up here in the United
States, and how they do it uphere is they treat them with
(16:55):
MDMA.
And so Andrea got to a pointwhere she really wanted to do it
the tribal way, the ceremonialway that she's from Chile, and
so that's kind of what shewanted to get back to, because
she just feels like that's theproper way to do it.
So she came down to Mexico,puerto Vallarta, established a
(17:17):
team and she has a phenomenalprotocol.
So basically, once you're in,you're part of a group that goes
, and I went with fivefirefighters and an EMS guy, so,
and I was the only lawenforcement guy there haven't
been too many law enforcementguys that have gone down and
done it and so there is a wholeprogram that you have to that
(17:43):
you go through.
Obviously, you get medicallychecked through and she has a
workbook that you're goingthrough every day.
Basically, you're settingintentions on what you want to
accomplish.
You know you're not settingexpectations, you're setting
intentions on what you want toaccomplish, because the whole
thing with when you're doingpsilocybin and plant medicine is
(18:04):
to have the product.
You're going to hear a lot ofproper set and setting.
So it's the proper mindset andit's the proper setting, like
where you're at.
So this isn't, you know, somewilly-nilly.
You know you're going to drop abunch of mushrooms and then see
what happens.
Right, this is you are, youknow, meeting with your whole
(18:25):
group.
Every couple weeks we do agroup phone call prior this is
all leading up prior meetingone-on-one.
You have a coach, so you get acoach as well.
Meeting with andrea, so sheknows kind of what your
backstory is.
Um, and you are also, you've gotto be clean.
You, you know no alcohol ifyou're on ssris.
(18:46):
You, you've got to.
You got to get off ssris ifyou're, you know, doing any sort
of drugs, whether whether theybe prescription or anything.
So for me, I drink a little bitof beer, not much Like Friday
drink beer with pizza.
I was doing a lot of edibles soI had a hard time sleeping.
(19:09):
So edibles, every single day Iwas taking edibles, so I had to
cut all that, which wasn'tdifficult.
No caffeine, they really putyou um, suggest that you, your
diet gets really tight, so likea non-inflammation diet, no
sugar.
Um, again, you want your, yourbody clean so that when the
(19:31):
medicine comes through it'sbasically doing its job, it's
not fighting all those otherthings.
You know, I believe if you'reschizophrenic you wouldn't be
going down there.
Psychedelics don't work reallywell with that.
So there's a lead up, there's aplan, and I can shoot you the
(19:56):
actual workbook so you couldhave a good idea too, sure.
And so then basically you gothrough this for I came in a
little bit late because someonedropped out, but I think the
lead up is usually six to eightweeks.
So I think I had about a fiveweek lead up is usually six to
eight weeks, so I think I hadabout a five-week lead up Flew
(20:16):
down to Puerto Vallarta and thenyou know you meet your whole
group the night before it starts.
You guys all go to dinner andyou know everybody's kind of
nervous and you go through andyou meet everybody and you kind
of tell your story and whyyou're there.
And then you meet everybody andyou kind of tell your story and
(20:43):
why you're there, and and thenyou meet, um, the dr andrea, and
then the next day they comepick you up at your hotel and
they take you to this, you know,beautiful mansion on the water,
right?
Um, that's the perfect setting,right, because I was talking
about set and setting, soperfect setting.
Um, you know there's a cookthere.
You're fed um, the first dayyou go and you basically, um,
(21:04):
you meet, there's a medicine man.
So medicine man comes and heintroduced himself and and
blesses us, um with tobacco atthat point, and then not like
he's smoking a Marlboro, buttraditional tobacco, and and
blesses us.
And then the first eveningyou're there, he goes through,
(21:26):
there's, there's obviouslydifferent medicines and one of
them is called Rappe and heexplains we're going to do Rappe
, and basically he shoots it upyour nostrils.
It's wild with this tube andit's supposed to help cleanse
you and it burns like crazy andso you just can't, but you got
to kind of like suck it up andtake it.
(21:48):
And then he puts something inyour eyes which is also supposed
to cleanse you, another plantmedicine, and I'm not clear on
what exactly that was called.
But again, these are all justkind of stair-stepping you into
the next day.
But what it does is, whenthey're going through all these
things.
It shows how much they carebecause they're really taking
(22:11):
care of you as they're doingthis with you.
Much they care because they'rereally taking care of you as
they're doing this with you.
And it, the, the medicine manwas his name was oscar
incredibly intelligent, um, youknow, kind of broke down why
we're taking all these thingsand why we're doing it before we
do the psilocybin.
Um, so do that the first night.
The next day, you fast in themorning and you, um, there's
(22:37):
another like ceremony.
It's very ceremonial, it's verytribal, uh, it's very beautiful
, and so you do a anotherceremony, then you do a rose
petal bath and then we went to acovered patio and the covered
patio had seven beds, um, andbasically the, the medicine man
(23:01):
has the, the psilocybin.
It's in a powder form and hemixes it with orange juice and
they kind of give you, um, alittle bit of an interview based
on you know, have you ever donethis before?
How much do you weigh All thatstuff?
And they base their dosage onthat.
(23:22):
So the dosages were, yeah, likefive grams.
It's called a hero's dose.
Like most people, when they'rescrewing around with mushrooms,
they'll take a couple grams ortwo, like an eighth or something
, two and a half grams, so ahero's dose is a pretty
significant dose.
So, um, he mixes them up, doesa blessing.
(23:45):
We're all sitting at the edgeof our little bed, we drink our,
our psilocybin and orange juice, um, and then they sit you back
down, they lay you down, theyput eye shades on and, about 30
minutes in, you start goingthrough your journey.
And do you want me to explainmy journey?
Tyra Valeriano (24:05):
Sure, let's hear it.
Robie Poynter (24:08):
All right.
So my intention going down wasI wanted to obviously the
overall was be a better person,right, but I had intentions of I
wanted to communicate with mygrandparents.
I want to communicate with mydad, who's passed away.
I wanted to have acommunication with my, my wife.
I wanted to communicate with myson, and that was really.
(24:31):
That was really it.
That was kind of like, okay,okay, this is what I want to do.
Um, so, 30, 30 minutes in, I,you know, start seeing lights
and you start, you feel yourmuscles twitch a little bit.
And let me just also prefacethis with I'm very conservative.
Um, I'm not a drug guy, I'm not, you know, uh, that at all.
(24:53):
I'm extremely conservative.
I'm extremely, um, I think alot about what I put into my
body and, you know, food intakeI'm tight, I'm dialed my food
intake, so I didn't take any ofthis lightly.
And it wasn't like, um, I'mgonna go down to mexico and, you
know, shroom my ass off or likethat it it was.
(25:13):
I want to go down there and Iwant to, um, see that this helps
me and and put this in asanother tool in my toolbox.
So start getting into thejourney.
Um, you know, start seeing somelights, feeling my muscles
twitch a little bit, so I knewit was starting to affect me and
(25:35):
then pretty much boom rightinto it.
I, I started talking to mygrandpa and which was, you know,
incredible in that, you know,like he's been dead for several
years, but I wanted to explainto him and my grandma how much I
appreciated them and how muchthey meant to me and how I have
(25:59):
kind of structured my life as Iwatched them, you know, as they
had their life together, and I,you know, explain to him hey,
I'm sorry if you think this isbad, I'm doing this, but if I
didn't do this, I wouldn't beable to talk to you and share
this with you and explain thisto you, because when my grandpa
(26:19):
died I was 20.
I didn't really have any lifeexperience.
I couldn't share with him howmuch I appreciated him, nor my
grandma, and so this was very,very, very real.
It was like I was communicatingwith my grandparents, and some
people may say, well, that'sdrug-induced and blah, blah,
blah.
If you go through this, youknow you were communicating with
(26:43):
them.
It's a different realm.
And then I was able to talk tomy grandma and I explained to
her how much I loved her andthat when she did, I was there
when she died, and so I wasn'table to really like share all
these things when she died,because she was just not in a
good state.
So I was able to do that andshare that with her, which kept
(27:04):
seeing this dark figure, thisvery scary thing, was popping up
.
And so when you're preparingfor a journey like this, they
tell you whatever comes up, youknow, and if it's scary, you've
(27:28):
got to lean into it.
You can't run away from it,you've got to lean into it.
So I was like, all right, well,I guess it's time for me
leaning into this dark, scarything it's on.
And so I would go towards thisand inevitably it would change
into something good.
So it would be like, okay,here's the dark thing, I'm going
(27:50):
towards it, and then it wouldchange into something good
within my journey.
I'm going towards it and thenit would change into something
good within my journey.
And so my takeaway from thatwas that you know, you've got to
in life, you've got to leaninto really hard things, because
most of the time it's notnearly as bad as you think that
it's going to be, and we make upa lot of the stuff in our head,
but it was just interestingthroughout this journey that
(28:15):
that kept popping up.
It never turned out bad, italways turned into something
good.
So the next part was Icommunicated with my dad and so,
um, when my dad left or, I'msorry, when my mom left, I was
seven and she stayed friendswith my grandparents, and so my
dad you know, I was, I'm in thisjourney with my dad and he told
me he's like you know, thatreally bothered me, that you
(28:37):
didn't, you know, say anythingabout that.
And I was like, well, you know,I was seven years old, I I
didn't know any better, but nowthat I'm older, I I'm sorry that
that happened to you and I'mand I can see where that would
bother you and I was just like,hey, I was just doing the best I
could do.
And he was like, yeah, I wasdoing the best I could do too.
(28:59):
So during the journey also, allthese little messages of very
common, all this stuff we knowdoing the best you can do or
your parents are doing the bestthat they can do, we all know
that stuff on the surface level.
But when I was in this I, Ifelt it like, and so now I'm
(29:20):
like, okay, yeah, I am doing thebest I can do and you are doing
the best you can do.
And it was a, it was a feeling,more than just like this
surface, saying, uh, the nextpart was really the only thing
that had to do with lawenforcement, because and here's
the thing that I you know, Italked to a lot of guys that
(29:40):
have gone through this is theythink that you know, that one
call is the thing that's justput me over the top, or this job
has just crushed me.
And you know, it was weird withthis.
It was just this, this, this isthe one thing that happened
with law enforcement.
Or I don't want to go do thatbecause I've seen some dark
(30:00):
things, man, and I, you know, Idon't want that to come up, and
you know we've all seen darkthings and I'm not I'm not
trying to belittle that, but, um, most of the things that you
see when you go on thesejourneys have very little to do
with law enforcement.
They have a lot to do with yourchildhood.
(30:21):
So when it was finally time forme to retire, they said, hey,
you got to bring your gun down,you got to turn it into the
regional training center and Iwas like, all right, you know,
no problem, I've got another gun, I've got other guns I don't.
All right, you know, no problem, I've got another gun, I've got
(30:41):
other guns I don't need.
You know, that's fine.
So I drove down the regionaltraining center and I go to get
the gun out of my trunk and um,and I just I lost it.
I was like, oh my god, I'm, youknow, basically crying here at
the regional training center andit's like I've got all kinds of
other agencies walking aroundbehind me and people that I know
from other agencies, and I gotone, a buddy, from a different
agency.
He's like Whoa, what's going on?
And I'm like, dude, I don'tknow.
(31:05):
And the thing is, I think whatit was was that you know, the
gun was the thing that was gonnaget me home.
And every single night when Ipulled a car over four deep on
East 14th and 165th and my coverwasn't there yet, my gun was
gonna get me home.
(31:26):
And now I've got a, I've got toturn it in, I got to give it up
, and so I was crushed.
And this is going to tie intomy journey here in a second.
So I turned it in and I thoughtI'd put that through.
I thought I was done with thatand but I guess I wasn't,
because during the journey thatit came up and so again, I
(31:54):
started just bawling during the,during the journey, um, just,
I've never cried so hard in mylife.
I could just feel the air goingout of me.
And what ended up happening?
This sounds a lot of thisstuff's going to sound really
odd, but what ended up happeningduring the journey is there was
I had a funeral for the gun andit was like this okay, now it's
(32:16):
now, it's now it's finally over, and now you are, um, ready to
move on to the next chapter ofyour life, and basically it was
like you're done with lawenforcement, um, and that
funeral was like the ending forand if it just once that
happened, I felt so at ease inthe, in the journey, also
(32:38):
throughout the journey isthey're playing music this whole
time they're playing music,they're playing tribal music,
like they're singing, and so youare, you're, you're getting
taken for this.
Really it's a wonderful ride,and you have male singing, you
have female singing, and so theythey kind of they're steering
this journey too.
So the next thing, um put thegun in funeral.
(33:03):
All done, and then I connectedwith my wife, um, who has just
been so supportive of methroughout my whole career.
She's a dispatcher, so therewere times where you know she
was sending me on calls, whereyou know 245 or you know like,
and not knowing what she wassending me into.
So she's been through a lot ofstuff too and I just, in that
(33:28):
journey, I was able to let herknow that you know, we will be
together forever, um, and thatit was just this blissful
feeling of love that I had.
That, you know, I'm not evennecessarily talking about this
lifetime, I'm saying forever Um.
And you know, and I'm notthat's not usually how I think
(33:50):
or anything but within thejourney that's how I felt and it
was an incredible feeling to beable to share that with her.
Again, this stuff I know itprobably sounds very bizarre,
but when you're in it it's veryreal and it was very necessary
to kind of put that behind.
(34:13):
Necessary to kind of put thatbehind.
And I wrapped it up kind ofwith my son, who's 20 years old,
but he's felt the brunt of myyou know, anger, high
expectations, just you know,short fuse throughout his whole
(34:33):
life.
And you know, I explained tohim that you know, I'm I'm
basically I'm sorry and thatfrom from this day forth, it's
we're turning over a new leaf.
And he, you know, shared withme.
I get it, you know.
Again, it was I'm doing thebest I can do.
That's what he said.
(34:53):
And I said, you know, and I'mdoing the best I can do too, and
so it was a very simple butheartfelt feeling that we both
had.
And then, after when I was donewith all this, I talked to my
wife, I talked to my son, Iexplained everything to them,
and so it was.
It's very interesting, and Iknow that I'm kind of missing
(35:19):
some of the pieces to it, butmedically, there's a doctor
there, you know, because youdon't want to at least I didn't
I didn't want to go intosomething that was hey, we're
going to take you into thejungle, um, we're going to bury
you up to your neck, you'regoing to take mushrooms.
This was, you know, checked bythe doctor prior to to going
(35:43):
into the psilocybin um journey.
And then, when you're done,you're there to your check,
there's a doctor there checkingyou.
Um, it was very um, I felt verygood about it.
It was, it was literally it was, it was very.
I felt very good about it.
It was, it was literally it was.
It was life changing.
Because once you go throughthat, that's just part of the
deal, you know, because when yougo through it I could see that
(36:06):
what my life really should belike.
So I have this like North starand obviously I can't be like
that all the time, like I don'tlive in a mansion, I'm not in
the proper setting all the timeLife happens and I you know I
was, I was in the ideal setting,right, so everything's
perfectly set up.
I'm getting fed, but I do havethis North Star now that you
(36:31):
know you strive to reach andthere's ways to do it and you
shorten the times that are roughwith all the tools that you
learn.
So throughout the retreatyou're also, you know you're
doing yoga, she's giving you,we're doing different little
workshops too to help you whenyou get back.
Tyra Valeriano (36:53):
So I have a lot of questions.
I have a lot of questions, butI want to first make a couple of
observations based on yourstory.
So first, you did mention thatthere's a lot of firefighters
that go there.
Are these firefighters who arealready retired or are they
still currently working asfirefighters?
(37:13):
What is the majority of thepeople that go to these um
projects?
What?
What is their current statuswith their agency?
Robie Poynter (37:21):
they're all the ones that I went with are active
.
Most of them are active.
Um, this is another thing thatI was thinking a lot about is,
you know, like law enforcementagain, drugs we arrest people
for we have a little differentmindset than most other first
responders, right, I mean,firefighters aren't arresting
(37:42):
anybody for drugs.
I mean they'll arrest them forarson, but it's different, and
so it's a little more difficultfor law enforcement to make that
transition into looking at thislike this is medicine, this is
really medicine.
So that's a good question,though.
Tyra Valeriano (38:01):
Yeah.
So the reason why I ask that isbecause I'm listening to your
story and you went in retiredand, of course, some of the
guests that I have talked to,they talk about their journey
after law enforcement, thestruggles that they've had, and
I can see how something likethis would be beneficial for
them.
But you know you also have lawenforcement officers that are
(38:21):
still police officers, whereverthey're at, who are struggling
and you're right, we have thatmindset that, oh, what the heck
Like I'm not going to do that.
You know I'm going to look likea crazy guy.
I'm over here dealing with themeth addict that's, you know, on
freaking corner of Broadway andGrimes, and you know I'm taking
him to jail and they're actingall crazy and here I come with
(38:42):
my story and people are going tothink that I'm just as crazy.
So, being that this is a medicaltreatment, what in California?
Specifically?
Because I know that in I toldyou prior to the podcast I have
an aunt who is a psychologistand she is from the last that I
had talked to her.
She's doing this study in Texasto medicate her clients with
(39:05):
psilocybin, but I don't knowwhat is going on with that.
As of right now.
It's not legal right now.
So what is the?
What is it that's surrounding aproject like this in California
, and how do first respondersget approved for something like
this?
Robie Poynter (39:23):
Yeah, that's the, that's the thing.
I think Oregon, you can do itwith medical approval.
I think Colorado, maybeCalifornia, no.
So basically, the SIREN projectfacilitates.
You know, hey, we're going tosend you down there.
What the doctor does down thereis what the doctor does.
(39:46):
They're not, you know, sayingthat you need to do this.
This is you know what I mean.
They're not doing anything likethat, Um, they're just
providing you the venue, um, togo down there.
So, yeah, California, evenstill, I mean that's, I don't
believe that you can get, um,like a medical release to do it,
which and I can give you, Igive you my reasons why I think
(40:10):
that it's not legal.
And if you'd like to hear that,Sure.
Okay, um, well, it's not a verygood business model because you
can go like, for instance, meI've done all kinds of stuff
yoga, you know, talk therapy,I've done all kinds of stuff.
(40:30):
None of it worked and I'll behonest with you, none of it
would have worked.
My mind was so calloused overthe neuroplasticity was just
muscled over, and I'll tell youwhy.
I think that happened, happen.
But business model wise, if Igo down and I do one treatment
(40:52):
right when, you know, when youhave SSR, you got to take those,
you know, every single day, youknow, like it's just the
prescription drug companiesdon't want something like this
to to work for people.
They want to be able to put itinto a pill, they want to be
able to, you know, say you needto take three of these every
(41:18):
single day, or blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, or you need to see
the therapist three times a week.
So that's really, I think,because they're close to doing
it with MDMA, they're very close, but I just, you know it
doesn't make a business modelsense to them.
They're not thinking about itlike hey, we can really help
(41:38):
some people.
And you know, that's not,that's just not how it is Right,
business wise.
So that's that's my theory.
We're going to give you avaccine that doesn't work, but
we're not going to give you amedicine that's been around for
7,000 years that works.
It can really help a lot ofpeople, and it could help people
(42:14):
before they get to.
You know they've got a gun intheir mouth, that type of thing.
It really reboots your system,clears your cash out.
You kind of just go, oh shit,okay, why have I been so worried
about that?
That's nothing.
It's amazing, amazing.
Tyra Valeriano (42:29):
You know, and I think that it's a very
interesting story.
I mean, like I said in thebeginning, this is a perspective
and a take that most lawenforcement officers are
probably not going to be veryopen to, and I like this because
I think that this is what Iwant to bring to the podcast.
This is what I want to put outthere is that not everybody's
journey is the same.
(42:50):
The podcast this is what I wantto put out there is that not
everybody's journey is the same.
So my question for you is onceyou completed this project, what
did it do for you for your lifeafterwards?
What was it?
What was the changes that yousaw in your life?
Robie Poynter (43:02):
That's a great question.
So when you get done, you gothrough what's called the
integration and the integrationis the most important thing.
Like what I did, that's like10% of it.
Integration is coming back andreally kind of taking action on
everything that you've justlearned.
And so part of my integrationwas like coming back and, and
(43:27):
you know, telling my and my wife, you know she's like I came
back and I was a completelydifferent, relaxed, not on edge
person and she's like whoa, whatthe heck is going on with you?
Because we've been together for23 years, I am just on edge all
the time, like, you know,always doing something, that
(43:48):
type of person, and I wascompletely relaxed.
A little side note Also when Icame back, I had no desire and I
still don't, and I'm not sayingthat I this will be forever but
I had no desire to drinkalcohol, no desire to do any
edibles, and it was kind of likethis weird, weird thing that
(44:11):
not that I drank a lot, but Ijust think I realized that I had
been kind of masking thingswith drinking a few beers, um,
and masking things with with umtaking those edibles and so, um,
yeah, now I don't even knowdesire.
So that was kind of a littledifficult for my wife, because
(44:32):
once a week there's a brewery byour house.
We'd go to the brewery, wewould drink a few beers and we
would have these like justincredible talks, right.
And so she's like, well, are wenot going to go do that anymore
?
And I'm like, well, I'll stillgo.
But you know, I don't, I justdon't feel like drinking, I
don't, I don't want to, um, andso.
(44:54):
So that was kind of hard forher, you know, cause she was
like who's this dude, who's thisguy?
That came back, so we had towork through some stuff, um, and
so part of the integration is,you know, I've always wanted to
take transcendental meditationand really get into that
(45:16):
meditation, Wanted to do it foryears, and so I just told her
hey, you know what, why don't wetake this together?
So we took this transcendentalmeditation course together and
we do it every single day, twicea day, and it's been phenomenal
.
So those talks that I wastalking about after the beers,
we have those talks every day,like we meditate together in the
(45:36):
morning and then we have thesejust really good talks.
And which was, which has beengreat is you have to take what
you've learned and you've got tobasically figure out what your
(45:58):
routine is going to be to getyou closer to that spot, like a
morning routine.
So for me, I get up and I read,I journal, exercise, meditate.
These are all the things thatyou need to be doing to get in
the proper headspace.
So I was also like I wasn'tquite there as far as like my
(46:23):
expectations on my family, andso I've always had these like
too high of expectations,especially for my wife, and one
day I was pissed this was afterI got back.
I was pissed because she didn'tdo something that I thought,
you know, everybody should justknow to do.
(46:44):
You know, like you should justknow that it's the right thing
to do.
We gotten into a little bit ofan argument, meditated and I had
thought about you know, likewhat?
Why am I like this?
What is it?
Is it possibly because my momleft when I was seven and I have
an abandonment issue orsomething, and so I, you know,
(47:04):
started doing a bunch ofresearch and, lo and behold,
every single thing that I havedone, you know, towards my wife
and my son as far as settinghigh expectations, um, basically
pushing them away, is because Iwas waiting for them to both
like bail on me, because that'swhat my mom did when I was seven
.
So from basically the time I wasseven I had been pushing people
(47:28):
away, overcompensating withstuff.
And then I had to go tell her.
I was like, hey, you know, Ijust realized that I've been
wrong for like about the last 23years on pretty much everything
.
And you know she said, yeah, no, I've known that you've had
this issue for about a monthsince we've been going out.
(47:51):
I just I didn't want to open upthese old wounds, so I just
took it, and so that was hard,that was hard for her and it was
hard for me, and so.
But the bigger point is I wouldhave never come to this if I
hadn't gone on that journey.
My mindset was not even closeto that.
(48:12):
It completely opened up my mindfor lack of a better term but
just radically open to thingsnow and compared to how I was in
the past, and so I'm extremelygrateful for that.
Like that, that literallychanged my life.
(48:32):
I look at things through acompletely new lens to what it
was in the past.
I had just much like when weget a physical injury and we.
You know, I blew out my knee.
I overcompensate, so now myleft hip hurts.
We've muscled through this stuffMental health-wise.
(48:54):
I think.
You know we do the same thing.
You know, like when I was sevenmy mom bailed, I was
abandonment issues, but I justmuscled through it, just kept
muscling through it.
Then you get into this job andthen you're just packing it in
and that I mean, it's just.
You know, one call to the nextand you can't even worry about
(49:14):
that call that.
You know this little boy washit on east 14th, the same age
as your son, um, and you got totake the report, you got to sit
in the morgue with it, like allthose things.
You just you got to go to thenext call, um, so you just pack
it in, pack it in, pack it inand then it manifests into, you
know, anger, anxiety, insomnia.
(49:35):
So yeah, I don't know if Ianswered your question, but I
talked a lot.
Tyra Valeriano (49:42):
No, no, that's fine.
It's been interesting.
We are running out of time andI'm curious, before we end our
episode today, what would youwant to share with listeners
based on your experience?
Robie Poynter (49:56):
I would share that.
You know, just be open, be opento the possibility of plant
medicine, because it literallychanged my life.
I've really have tried a lot ofdifferent things and it's.
I know that it's there's astigma, there's a.
There's a stigma with mentalhealth, but there's, you know,
obviously a stigma with plantmedicine.
(50:17):
But I am very much like mostguys in law enforcement and I'm
not, you know, some wavy gravyguy or woo woo guy.
I just the reason that I'm evenon here is because if one
person's like, wow, okay, I feellike that too, I should, I
(50:39):
should explore that.
That's really what I want to doand I am so grateful that you
have the courage to like talk tosomeone like me, because there
there's really not, there's nota lot of people in law
enforcement that are talkingabout this.
Um, there's military is talkingabout it.
There's a there's one other guyin um, massachusetts who's
(51:02):
talking about it, lieutenant umsarco gregarian.
But there's really not a lot,and I think that it can really
benefit people If you kind ofmuck past the stigma of it.
Please be open to it.
Look at the Siren Project.
They want to help.
They're sending people down,you know, at no cost.
(51:25):
So that's what I would say, andthank you very much.
Tyra Valeriano (51:29):
So that's what I would say, and thank you very
much yeah you're welcome, Ithink I mean I was honestly, I'm
not going to lie I wasintrigued because I was thinking
this is very different and,just like most listeners, I'm
sure they're going to think thisis very different, but for me I
feel that it's important.
On the topic of mental healthand wellness, because not
everybody just like my story.
(51:50):
We don't struggle with thingstechnically in the law
enforcement side, but mine wasmore personal and a lot of
people are out there not knowinghow to deal with the issues
that they're facing and in thelaw enforcement realm, this is a
hot topic right now.
Mental health and wellness is ahot topic because of the things
that we go through the thingsthat we see and nobody really
(52:11):
knows how to deal with it.
So I am completely open toanything in this space because,
even though it's not foreveryone, there is, just like
you said, maybe somebody outthere who's going to be like hey
, you know what?
I'm interested in this, let mejust look at it and who knows,
maybe they'll do it and it'llchange their life, and that's
all that really matters.
And you know no judgment here.
I think it's pretty crazy.
(52:33):
Like I said, I have a gnatwho's doing this.
So it's not that it's veryforeign to me the idea of
treating people with plantmedicine, but I think in the law
enforcement space it is verydifferent.
It's very hard to open up yourmind to think that this is
acceptable and that this is goodfor you because of what we are
(52:55):
and what we stand for and whatwe, you know, enforce on people.
So I'm very open to it and Iappreciate your time and for
sharing your journey with us.
I think it's great.
Is there any points of contactthat you have, in case some of
the listeners would like toreach out to you?
Robie Poynter (53:13):
Yeah, absolutely.
I'm on Facebook at just RobPointer P-O-Y-N-T-E-R.
Instagram at R-A-W-B underscorezone.
Twitter at Rob Zone 1.
Linkedin Rob Pointer and thenthe sirenprojectorg.
Tyra Valeriano (53:40):
Well, thank you so much, Rob.
I again appreciate your timeFor the listeners out there.
I hope you guys got a good doseof perspective and maybe some
variety into your toolbox.
As always.
Thank you guys for turning in,be safe and I'll see you on the
next one.
Thank you for joining me onChapter Blue.
If you enjoyed today's episode,be sure to follow and tag me on
(54:02):
social media and share withyour friends and fellow officers
.
If you're interested in joiningan episode, I'd love for you to
be a part of the conversation.
Until next time, stay safe,take care of yourself and
remember you're never alone inthis journey.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!