April 14, 2025 • 52 mins
Tom Smith's 30-year career with the NYPD reads like a roadmap through the evolution of modern American policing. From his early years patrolling the streets during New York's high-crime era through his extensive work in plainclothes units, narcotics, and gang divisions, Tom offers listeners extraordinary insights into the realities of law enforcement.
Following 9/11, Smith's career took a dramatic turn when he joined the FBI's Joint Terrorism Task Force, where he would spend the next 17 years. This transition led him across several countries, including a three-month deployment, putting him at the forefront of international counter-terrorism operations. Throughout our conversation, Smith balances operational experiences with deeply personal reflections on the psychological toll of police work.
Perhaps most compelling is Smith's discussion about mental health challenges in law enforcement. He shares his own experiences with nightmares and the difficult balance of protecting his family from the darkness of his profession while maintaining open communication with his wife of 35 years. As he explains, while the average person experiences approximately five traumatic events in a lifetime, officers might encounter that many in a single shift, a reality that leaves invisible scars on those who serve.
Now retired and co-hosting the Gold Shield podcast, Smith advocates passionately for better mental health support within the profession and offers a powerful perspective on the changing policing. His advice for new officers centers not on tactics or techniques, but on something more fundamental: developing strong communication skills. As Smith puts it, "If you don't know how to talk to someone, you are not going to be successful." Whether you're considering a career in law enforcement, currently serving, or simply interested in understanding the human beings behind the badge, this conversation offers invaluable wisdom from someone who's lived through three decades on the front lines.
🔗 Resources & Contact Info from the Episode:
🎧 Gold Shields Podcast
- Website: www.thegoldshieldshow.com
- Instagram: @thegoldshieldshow
- YouTube: youtube.com/@goldshields
- Listen on all major podcast platforms (Spotify, Apple, etc.)
📞 Mental Health Support Mentioned:
- Copline — A 24/7 confidential hotline where officers can speak to retired law enforcement officers.
☎️ 1-800-267-5463
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tyra Valeriano (00:01):
Welcome to Chapter Blue, the podcast where
we discuss the world of lawenforcement through an honest
conversation on tough orcontroversial topics, real
stories, perspectives andexperience from officers all
around the world.
Whether you're here forinsights on mental health,
self-care, work-life balance,getting into law enforcement,
getting out of law enforcement,or just trying to learn about
(00:21):
personal and professionalchallenges officers face every
day, you've come to the rightplace.
I'm your host, tyra Valeriano,and whether I'm going solo or
speaking with a guest, eachepisode will discuss different
aspects of life behind the badge.
Let's turn the page and stepinto Chapter Blue.
Good morning to my listeners.
I wanted to introduce you to myguest, tom Smith.
(00:44):
Thank you for joining me today.
Tom Smith (00:46):
Thank you for having me.
Tyra Valeriano (00:48):
Before we jump into our episode, I wanted to
acknowledge a few things aboutyour background that I found
very interesting.
Number one I'm a huge fan ofNew York PD.
I've said it in previouspodcasts.
I don't know if it was drilledinto my head when I was younger.
But you guys are like the starsof law enforcement.
Head when I was younger.
But you guys are like the starsof law enforcement, I don't
know.
You guys are superheroes.
And even though I've done thesame job, you guys just seem
(01:10):
different.
You're like Hollywood for thelaw enforcement realm.
So you have 30 years with NewYork PD.
You're retired now, socongratulations on that.
That's a huge accomplishment.
The next thing is you have beenmarried for 35 years.
That is also a hugeaccomplishment.
The next thing is you have beenmarried for 35 years.
That is also a hugeaccomplishment and I do want to
talk about that a little bitlater in the podcast.
(01:30):
But you know that's rare and Ithink it's weird sometimes for
some people when they saycongratulations on your marriage
.
But it's very rare to havesomebody be married for 35 years
in today's society and on topof that in law enforcement.
And the last thing is you have apodcast where you're a co-host
of Gold Shields, and yourpodcast is very different than
(01:54):
mine in many ways, but I find itvery interesting and intriguing
.
So we are going to talk aboutthat.
I kind of want to know why youwent down that path, and I'm not
asking for all of your secrets,but you guys get some really
interesting guests on your show.
So I am just curious how youguys are able to do that and how
you get the ideas for some ofthe things you talk about,
(02:16):
because it is pretty interestingand I think that the listeners
would really like that.
So, without me just taking uptoo much more of your time,
would you tell us a little bitmore about yourself and what
you're doing today?
Tom Smith (02:26):
Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me.
You know, we kind of hooked upon LinkedIn when this started
and Instagram, and I was sointrigued by your title.
I love, first of all, and justwhat you're doing, and I said
that the more of us need to dothis because messages that we
have need to get out there andpeople realize that cops are
(02:48):
human beings and cops haveemotions and they have good days
and bad days and backgroundsand families and all that.
So I think it's just soimportant that more of us do
this.
But, with that being said, likeyou said and so nicely stated,
with the NYPD and you know, itwas all I ever wanted to do.
(03:09):
My dad was an NYPD detective, soI grew up in that world.
I grew up, like you just said,but on my side, idolizing the
NYPD and detectives, because myhero was one.
You know, my dad and I werevery close and that's what I
wanted to do and there was kindof no other avenue.
(03:30):
I told a lot of people I waseither playing baseball or being
a cop.
That was it, because that'sjust what I love to do, and the
thought of being in the NYPD andfollowing in his footsteps
drove me to just everything Iwanted to do and pushing myself
to every limit, that I had to dothe best I could.
And that was because my dad hetold me when I graduated the
(03:54):
academy.
He said, listen, if you'regoing to do this job, do it
great.
Whether you're answering aphone or doing a homicide case,
just do it great.
And I thought of that andcarried that with me my entire
career.
You know, doing a case or goingto do a briefing or something
like that, just saying hey, nailthis one, Do this one great.
(04:15):
And it's because of him and Ihad a very fortunate career.
You know, working hard isworking hard.
You know you want to be thebest of what you can do, you
want to stay safe but you wantto make an impact on what you're
doing in your career.
And I wanted to do that and Ithink I did.
You know I hit every spot.
(04:36):
I kind of wanted to hit.
The only thing I didn't do thatI was.
My entire goal in the NYPD wasbeing a homicide squad and the
only reason that didn't happenwas because 9-11 happened.
And 9-11 completely changed mycareer.
You know, I did the patrolplainclothes unit, narcotics,
(04:58):
the gang unit and robbery squadin the Bronx.
And then 9-11 happened and Iwould have been very happy being
a homicide cop, being ahomicide detective in the Bronx.
And then 9-11 happened and Iwould have been very happy being
a homicide cop.
Being a homicide detective inthe Bronx was my goal because my
dad did it, so that's what Iwanted to do.
And then 9-11 happened and blewthe world off its center and my
(05:19):
career and got asked to jointhe FBI's Joint Terrorism Task
Force where I spent the last 17years of my career after 9-11
assigned there and going todifferent countries and doing
large scale terrorisminvestigations and working with,
you know, a lot of governmentagencies and had a blast doing
(05:41):
it.
You know, like I said,fortunate career and happy 30
years came and went really fastand 30 sounded like a good
number.
So that was the end of a goodrun.
Tyra Valeriano (05:54):
Something about an even number.
I don't know.
I have to agree with that.
An even number is always thebest.
Tom Smith (05:59):
Very much much that.
Tyra Valeriano (06:05):
It's funny.
You mentioned that you likebaseball, so I had a guest last
week who also retired from newyork pd.
Uh, he's been retired for 13years, but I also know that new
york pd is a very huge agency,so I'm not sure that you know
him, but I'm gonna ask youanyway.
Do you know vincent scotto?
No, probably not yes you do?
Oh wow.
Tom Smith (06:22):
well, I interviewed him last week and we spoke on
the phone a few weeks ago.
Tyra Valeriano (06:28):
Oh, awesome, yeah, so there you go.
I had somebody else from NewYork PD, but he also mentioned
that he liked baseball.
So is that something in NewYork that everybody likes is
baseball?
Tom Smith (06:39):
You know what In the NYPD the NYPD is very sports
driven you have a lot, a lot ofathletes that become cops in the
city and the NYPD sports teamsare always real good, from
football, baseball, hockey.
Their sports is very close andtaken very, very serious.
(07:02):
So you do have a lot ofathletes that become cops and I
noticed that through you knowour show there's so many
athletes that become cops and gointo the military, which I
think is a great thing becauseof the discipline and the time
structure you need to train andput into what you're doing with
your job.
So I think that translates very, very well from athlete to law
(07:26):
enforcement and military.
Tyra Valeriano (07:28):
Nice, well, I didn't know that New York PD had
all of that.
That's pretty awesome to hear.
You mentioned that you did thelast 17 years as a federal agent
, so that's very different thanworking at an agency for a city.
What is the biggest differencethat you noticed in working both
agencies once you switched?
Tom Smith (07:47):
Well, I was still.
I didn't become a federal agent, I was still assigned to the
NYPD.
I was still an NYPD detective,but it was a task force that I
was assigned to but we workedunder all the previews of the
FBI.
So we were deputized federalagents of the FBI.
(08:08):
So we were deputized federalagents but still NYPD detectives
.
So we had kind of both rolesgoing on.
But it's very, very different inthe federal world than it is in
a city or state run agencybecause you have so many other
resources, different laws,different ways to do things,
different procedures.
So it did take a little whileto get used to that because
(08:28):
everything at JTTF is on afederal level, so you're dealing
not with the districtattorney's office, you're
dealing with the United Statesattorney's office.
So there is a big differencewith warrants and wiretaps and
all that that go into thefederal system that you need you
know to do on the federal leveland the travel you know, and
(08:51):
dealing with so many securityagencies of a foreign government
and different things like that.
So it did take a littleadjusting to do.
But it was a incredible placeto work because I did so many
things that normal detective inthe NYPD doesn't get to do.
You know I traveled and workedin 18 different countries.
(09:13):
I was in Afghanistan for threemonths.
You know briefing and being ina room with the highest levels
of this government officials.
You know to brief them on cases.
So the opportunities I had wereincredible and I loved being
there.
Tyra Valeriano (09:30):
Yeah, it sounds incredible.
That's an amazing career.
You did mention something atthe beginning of the podcast and
that was that police officersare human, so I kind of want to
touch on that.
Based on your career you said alot of great things about it At
what point did it?
Did you have any struggles?
(09:52):
I mean during your career, asyou know, working in New York as
a detective, or did you faceany struggles working for the
government?
What?
What is it that you wentthrough that you think that some
of our listeners can relate to?
Tom Smith (10:05):
You know just the everyday life.
You know you're you're bound bywhat you're doing in your
career but you have to balancethat with your family and your
life.
You know to be 24, seven, sevendays a week completely job
related is going to weigh on youand I learned a long time ago
(10:26):
that and my wife helped out withthis, being a guidance
counselor.
You know to talk things through.
You know come home from a badnight and talk about it and get
it out and get it off your chest, you know, because there's only
so much you can keep inside ofyou before it bubbles over.
You know the average personsees and deals with on an
(10:50):
average five traumatic events ina lifetime.
Okay, and in the span of yourlife the average person deals
with five traumatic events.
In the NYPD I could deal withfive in an hour working when I
did in the city.
You know, through the 90s whenthe city was completely out of
(11:10):
control with crime and we werereally busy to narcotics, to
dealing what we had to in theJoint Terrorism Task Force if an
event or a terrorist attackhappened, event where a
terrorist attack happened youknow we could deal with five
traumatic events in an hour andnow times that by an eight hour
shift, you know when we were onpatrol or somewhere, a day could
(11:32):
be incredible.
So understanding that we arehuman and we do get upset and we
do have feelings people need torealize, because then I think
you have a better understandingof what this job is all about.
And I say it at the end of ourshow all the time that when you
see a cop on the street, givehim a wave, you know, say thank
(11:54):
you, because you have no ideawhat that cop just went through.
He could have came from one ofthose traumatic events and he's
sitting in his car just thinkingabout it.
This may be.
It involved a child and he hasa newborn at home, you know, and
he has to sit there and dealwith that.
So to get a wave or a thank youfrom someone could change his
(12:15):
entire day around.
And I think that's that's whatI mean by the mental part of it.
And you know, I had my big thing, mental health wise or trauma
wise or whatever.
I would have incredibly badnightmares.
That was my thing.
I never drank, I never smoked,I really didn't go out that much
, so I didn't have that to turnto.
(12:39):
Thankfully, you know, thatwasn't a hey, let me go have a
drink or let me go out orwhatever.
That wasn't a thing.
So mine was just nightmares.
I would have really really badones, either after something
happened at work or days later,or just throughout the course of
a week, uh, and some werepretty bad.
So that was uh, that was mything to kind of get through
(13:02):
with the job.
Tyra Valeriano (13:04):
You mentioned that your wife is a counselor
and you also mentioned that shesuggested you talk about some of
the things that you wentthrough.
So you know, being in lawenforcement, we've always heard
don't talk to your spouse aboutwhat you've seen or what you've
responded to, and that's kind ofI would call it a holy grail.
If you were to ask an officerout in the field, they probably
(13:27):
would say, oh no, I don't talkto my spouse about it.
Maybe not everybody.
I talk to my spouse about a lotof things.
So for me I can't say that Irelate to that.
But what is your opinion about,you know, those who feel that
they shouldn't talk aboutcertain things with their spouse
or talk to them at all, beingthat that's something you did,
(13:48):
you know what I would.
Tom Smith (13:49):
I would never get into someone's relationship or
suggest someone, you know, dosomething.
Everyone's different,everyone's relationships are
different, everyone'scommunication skills are
different, you know, in the waythey interact in their marriage.
So that all I can say is workedfor me, you know, and that's
what was important, you know, Iwas able to come home and say,
(14:13):
oh my God, you know, we did thistonight and not it was more,
you know, maybe clarified, itwasn't an in-depth oh my God,
this, this, this, this happened.
It was, hey, we had a busynight.
We got in a fight, chased a guy, you know, things like that
just to at least get the surfaceof what the night was like out
(14:33):
of you, you know, not to go intojust gory details of an
accident or a crime scene orsomething like that, it was just
, you know, even to say, comehome and say you know what, we
had a really busy night.
We didn't stop all night, Ididn't even eat, blah, blah,
blah, you know, whatever itmight've been, that was
sometimes enough, you know, andand my wife realized what the
(14:56):
city was like at the time andhow busy we were and where I
worked.
So for me to come home and saywe had a busy night.
She understood what was goingon, you know.
And then some some things wereunavoidable to tell her exactly
what happened.
You know, if I got hurt and Iwas at the hospital, you know,
(15:30):
we just we engaged three armedguys who just robbed the
supermarket, big shootout in themiddle of Broadway.
One of our cops got shot.
He was injured, he was, hesurvived, he was shot in the leg
.
But Ralph, who got shot, was atour wedding, you know.
So it was.
It was, that was a big eventthat had to had to involve a
little bit more detail of whathappened.
But things like that, I justthink it's up to the individual
(15:50):
couple to find a good spot, youknow, to talk things out.
Tyra Valeriano (15:57):
I agree with that and same here.
I mean, my husband would beinterested in some of the
details sometimes, but I wouldhave to tell him.
Like you know, this isn'tsomething I can talk to you
about, even though I would loveto.
But yeah, I agree with thatcompletely.
I mentioned in the beginning,you've been married for 35 years
.
Obviously, communication is ahuge part of your relationship,
(16:17):
as you've already said.
What is a I don't know what isit that you would call the glue
to your relationship?
To be together for 35 years andlast through an entire career
with a lot of, I guess,deployments, you can call them.
And now here you are and youguys are still holding on strong
.
Tom Smith (16:38):
Communication, like we just talked about, and you
know time management, you know,and here's the other weird thing
about this or interesting thingabout this.
I should say, what we justtalked about with coming home
from work and being able to talkabout that foot pursuit or that
fight or whatever, was involvedin my career up until I got to
(17:01):
the Joint Terrorism Task Force.
Once I got to JTTF, I couldn'ttalk to her anymore.
She was not because of thesecurity levels of the cases we
were running.
I wasn't able to talk to heranymore about what I was doing.
So that was rough, that tooksome getting used to on both our
(17:21):
parts, because she would say,hey, why do you have to go to
California?
And I would just, hey, I got ameeting.
And it might not be a meeting,it might be something else, but
I'm telling her it was a meeting.
There were times that I went toTexas and told her I was in
Florida just because of thesecurity concerns or security
(17:42):
reasons of the cases we wererunning, of the security
concerns or security reasons ofthe cases we were running.
And I mentioned before going toAfghanistan for three months.
She knew I was going toAfghanistan but had no idea why
that's hard.
That was hard on both sides notto tell her what was going on
and her, for three months livingat home taking care of three
kids, not knowing why.
(18:02):
I was in the middle of a warzone, you know.
So it was a lot of communication, a lot of understanding on her
part.
She got it.
You know, that was the bestthing about our relationship.
We met before I got in the NYPDso, and she was very close to
my parents, so she knew my dad'sand I relationship.
So she knew my dad's and Irelationship.
(18:24):
So she knew what was coming.
She knew my drive and what thejob meant to me and pretty much
knew my personality.
So she knew how I was going tobe.
You know I wasn't going to besitting by the desk, that's for
sure.
So she understood what this wasall about before I got on.
So and her relationship with mymom and with my sisters,
(18:47):
talking to them about where Iwas or what I was doing, or he's
okay, was a big part of gettingthrough everything we got
through.
Are we perfect.
You know no Things.
You know things happen, youknow, in marriages.
But we were always up frontwith one another.
And I think one of the otherbig things was time management.
(19:08):
A lot of times I had theopportunity to schedule what I
was doing, so it was okay.
I'm going away next week,what's the week like with the
kids?
What's going on, who's where,who's got to help out with what?
And thank God for her, becausethere's no way I would have had
(19:31):
a 30-year career in the levelthat I did without her, with
taking care of the kids the wayshe did on top of her full-time
job.
You know there were times shegot pulled in three different
directions between softball andbaseball and dance and all that
and and it worked out great and,uh, I thank God every day for.
Tyra Valeriano (19:51):
Wow, that's amazing.
How many kids do you guys have?
Three three kids.
Are they adults now?
Tom Smith (19:59):
Yeah, they are.
I don't, I don't, I don't, I.
I whisper that because I can'tbelieve they are, but yes, they
are.
They're all starting theircareers after their master's
degrees in college and all that.
So it is very weird to say thatand see them, but they're the
(20:20):
best kids in the world and I'mso proud of the way they are and
never got in trouble, Was greatin school.
What had?
My daughter had a incrediblysuccessful softball career in
college.
My other little girl has agreat career dancing.
She danced in college, you know, and all that.
(20:41):
And my son is going into lawenforcement, you know.
So it's.
I'm very proud of them.
Tyra Valeriano (20:48):
I was just about to ask you did somebody
decide to join law enforcement?
Tom Smith (20:53):
Yep, he's going to go into it I don't want to say
where because I'm superstitiousand things are starting with
that, so I don't want to jinxanything.
But he had kind of the samefeeling I did growing up in
wanting this and the excitementof it and what it can do for you
.
So he's going to pick up thefamily business and continue it.
Tyra Valeriano (21:19):
Awesome.
Well, I want to go back to yourretirement.
When did you retire?
What year In?
Tom Smith (21:26):
2020.
I retired one week before COVIDhit the world.
Tyra Valeriano (21:32):
Oh, wow, okay.
So the reason why I ask that isbecause you obviously had a
good dose of what lawenforcement was a while back,
compared to what it is, evenjust a little bit before 2020.
Because I want to say thatthings have only progressively
gotten worse from then.
So you kind of have an idea.
(21:53):
What would you say is the mostdifficult transition that you've
noticed law enforcement hadsince you actually experienced
it?
Tom Smith (22:01):
Yeah, On the job.
You mean, yes, like the jobdramatically changed.
You know, because here's why,when I say this all the time the
worst thing for any lawenforcement department to handle
is politics getting into lawenforcement.
That never works.
(22:21):
It doesn't work.
You know, are there some partsthat it does work when you have
people who are so backing you upand have your back and
supporting you yes, it does.
But when you start lettingoutside influences change your
policing and your tactics,that's when cops get hurt and
(22:43):
the whole defund the policedramatically hurt police
departments, it hurt recruiting,it hurt the way cops work.
You know, back when I worked,you did your job.
You went out, you locked up badguys.
Did you get in of cops gettingyou know in altercations and all
this.
And I yell all the time thatcops are allowed to defend
(23:13):
themselves.
If they're getting attacked,they're allowed to fight back.
And you see so many times thatcops don't do that.
They just like kind of hold onto the person they're fighting,
waiting for their backup to showup or whatever, to the person
they're fighting, waiting fortheir backup to show up or
whatever.
And that's when they get hurtbecause they're so afraid of the
(23:34):
ramifications that thesepoliticians and liberal DAs put
on law enforcement and thatspecter or shadow over law
enforcement of oh my God, can Ido this?
I'm going to get in trouble forthis While someone's attacking
you.
That's running through theseyoung cops' minds and that's why
they're all getting hurt andthat's why they're all, after
they get hurt, leaving the jobbecause they have no backing and
(23:58):
they have no support system.
That is saying go out and doyour job, I got your back.
Yes, if you're wrong, you'rewrong and we'll deal with that.
I'm not saying that it's ablanket support system, you know
.
But if you're doing your joband it's an action of the heart
that you're, you know yourintentions are good then we're
going to have your back andthat's not happening in today's
(24:20):
policing.
Hopefully it changes, you knownow.
Hopefully it does and you getmore young cops that want to do
this job again because it'sneeded.
The numbers around this countryare so low in every department
because of situations like thisand cops getting hurt and saying
you don't have my back, I'm outof here.
(24:41):
Why am I going to work for youof you?
And I understand that it's sad,but I understand it, but that
that's the biggest dramaticchange that I've seen from when
I worked to what's going ontoday.
Tyra Valeriano (24:53):
So, being that your son is about to join law
enforcement, what is?
Some tips, maybe, that you'veprovided him, or that you want
to provide him, to let him knowwhat he's getting himself into
these days?
Tom Smith (25:05):
Yeah, you know it's.
It's protect yourself, do whatyou need to do to protect
yourself, and go home at night,and then we'll figure it out.
You know that was kind of allall hours.
You know, go home, make sureyou go home at the end of the
night and that is the main goaland that's just what I pass on.
And he's he's very good atdefending himself, you know.
(25:25):
So on a couple of differentlevels, so that's a good thing,
but it's just it's being securein who you are and what you can
do.
Can every cop handle everysituation?
No, you know.
So you got to find your nicheof what works, what you're good
at, what you find enjoyable, andhave that in your head of
(25:48):
wanting to go to work every day.
You know, I tell him all thetime and I say, when I speak at
police academies or in colleges,when people ask me about this
job, and I said you can't likeit, you have to love it.
You can't liking this job,you're not going to be
successful, You're not going toget to where you want to be and
you're probably going to gethurt.
(26:09):
If you just like it, if youlove it, you're going to put
more into it and be more focusedon your career and what you
want out of it than just likingthe job.
Tyra Valeriano (26:21):
I agree with that.
I would say it's a love haterelationship, if you're honest.
It's a love hate relationshiprelationship because there's not
going to be every day.
You're loving your job everytime you're going.
I mean there is definitely somerough times in there, but I
absolutely agree with that.
I kind of want to talk aboutyour podcast now.
So you've been retired since2020.
(26:42):
When did you start your podcastand how did you get into these
interviews that you do and thepeople that you talk to?
What kind of geared you to gothat route?
Tom Smith (26:53):
well, thank you for bringing it up, because I'm
really proud of of what it'sbecome and we started.
We're going into our, we juststarted our third season, uh,
which blows our mind and I'lltell you why.
The story behind this and whygoing into season three is so,
you know, great for us and thefeeling we have doing it.
(27:13):
But you know the reason.
We asked before the reason westarted it and I called my
partner, dan Murphy, who and Danand I worked together in the
NYPD.
He was my sergeant in the gangunit and then he was my sergeant
again in the terrorism taskforce and we were always friends
.
Even then he was my sergeantagain in the terrorism task
force and we were always friendsEven when he was my boss.
We would just, we clicked whenwe met and, just, you know,
(27:34):
continue to be friends for allthese years.
And I rolled the idea by him oneday and just said, hey, what do
you think about doing a podcast?
And he kind of he was on thephone with me and went, ok, all
right, great, what are we doing?
And then we, you know, we did alot of talking and at the time
(27:56):
there was so much, like I juststated before so much garbage
going on with law enforcementand getting thrown under the bus
and vilified and all that, andthe military as well that we
said there's so many greatstories out there that no one
knows and we have enoughcontacts in working when we did
and how long we did we could getsome good stories out there
(28:19):
that people don't know about andkind of give people a backstage
pass to some of theseinvestigations or military
missions.
You may know about it, but notthe whole story.
So the other thing we do on ourshow is we don't talk about
other people's cases.
You know we're not sitting on acamera or on a couch just
(28:42):
rattling off a case fromwhenever we get the people who
actually did those cases on ourshow and they tell their own
story.
And that is the best thing inthe world, because even we don't
know the background of some ofthese cases.
You know I'll do most of thebooking and getting the guests
(29:05):
and all that and that's why Iget them.
You know, all right, I knowabout it, but tell me more about
it and some of the stories thatwe've gotten and heard, the you
know behind the scenesinformation on these cases, blow
our mind and if anyone watchesour show, the reaction we have
(29:26):
to some of these is legit,because when we talk to our
guests, we tell them.
I don't want to hear the wholestory.
When I'm talking to you beforethe show, tell us on the show,
because we want our reactions tobe authentic and our emotions
to be authentic, and they are.
We've been really caught offguard sometimes with some of the
stories that we hear and whathad happened in certain
(29:49):
situations.
I think that's the best part ofour show.
We don't have a script.
We tell people all the timeit's three or four people
sitting around a bar talking,that's all it is, and Dan and I
kind of guardrail the show.
Our names are on it.
It's our show, yeah, but ourshow is our guests.
They run the show and Our namesare on it.
It's our show, yeah, but ourshow is our guests, they run the
(30:09):
show and their stories and youknow that was a big part of why
you know we wanted to do it.
And when I talk about seasonthree and I laugh that we're at
this point because when westarted we had seven shows lined
up and that was it.
We didn't know what numbereight was going to be.
We were.
We got to like three or fourand started to panic a little
(30:31):
like all right, what are wedoing next week or in a couple
of weeks?
And then it kind of just itkind of took off and we started
to get phone calls from peoplehey, can I be on your show?
I did this case.
Or getting recommended.
Hey, you guys should I did thiscase.
Or getting recommended.
Hey, you guys should talk tothis guy or this you know girl,
(30:55):
about what happened in this case.
And it just went from there.
I was happy, legitimatelythrilled, if I had a show two
weeks booked out.
I was like cool, I don't haveto do anything for two weeks.
Now we're already booked intoApril and you know it's just an
amazing ride, meeting the bestpeople in the world who put so
(31:18):
much into it.
And we went from lawenforcement and the military.
And then we have victims on, wehave survivors on you know of
these crimes and their storiesand then hit on the mental
health issue that policeofficers and military vets deal
with.
So we have that angle now.
(31:38):
So it's it's just a great rideand we're proud of where we're
at and the guests that we haveand relationships that we now
have, people I can call friendsnow that three years ago would
have never entered my head, sothat means a lot to us.
Tyra Valeriano (31:58):
Well, congratulations.
It sounds very successful.
And you know, I find theapproach that you guys took on
who it is that you interviewedto be very interesting because
even as a police officer, youknow we yes, we care when we're
dealing with people's situations.
I kind of want to give you theexample of a domestic violence
victim.
You know we deal with thesepeople over and over and over
(32:20):
again and then eventually we arejust like what do you want us
to do?
And we kind of lose thatempathy side when we're dealing
with somebody over and over.
But when you hear somebody'sstory from the other side, it
kind of gives you a little bitof a different perspective and
lens to reconnect with that sideand be like OK, you know, let
me regroup and see how I can bebetter if I'm going to be doing
(32:41):
this as my job, of coursespeaking from a law enforcement
side, and it gives the publicsome kind of idea on the dynamic
of a case, a victim and theperson who's working the case.
It's a really good approachthat you guys have.
When did you guys first startyour podcast?
What year?
Tom Smith (32:59):
We started in January of 2023.
Tyra Valeriano (33:04):
Yeah, 2023.
2023.
January 2023.
Tom Smith (33:08):
We did you know what we did about two months of
research before we kicked it offand we did more checking about
what we didn't want to do thanwhat we wanted to do.
We knew what we wanted to do,but we wanted to do research of
what we didn't want to be andwhat we didn't want to portray
ourselves as.
We didn't want to be the twocops of hey remember when we did
(33:31):
that.
We didn't want to do thatbecause that's going to last
about three shows and no one'sgoing to listen.
So that's why we wanted to getmore of a dynamic approach with
stories.
You know we you fall into thecategory of true crime, which
you kind of you find a niche andyou get in there, but we are a
true crime podcast.
(33:52):
But I think we're more of atrue story podcast, which is
what we like to tell people whenwe're doing these shows,
because the stories areincredible and you would think
like you you just said, you knowthese cases but you don't know
(34:13):
what went into it.
And sometimes you think casesare exciting and they hit these
detectives hard mentally.
Just to give you an example, ifI could, anthony Espada was on
our show in the beginning inseason one and if you remember
the story of the three younggirls who were kidnapped in
Cleveland for 10 years and thenthey were found 10 years later.
(34:36):
Anthony was the police officerwho found them after one escaped
and all you would think theregular person, lay person we
are.
Oh my God, how exciting is that.
You got them, they're home, yousave them.
And that was a really smallpart for Anthony.
(34:56):
That hit him really, reallyhard mentally with going in that
house and seeing what thesegirls had to deal with for 10
years and not coming out of abedroom and being chained up and
you know all that.
And having a baby in that houseby the captor.
(35:16):
Who's the father, you know?
So it's not TV, it's not amovie.
Emotions are real and sometimesit catches you off guard of
what's going to hit you acertain way and we get that in
our stories for sure.
Tyra Valeriano (35:34):
Wow, you know.
I'm glad you brought up themental health aspect because I
know you mentioned in a littleearlier that you kind of
struggled with nightmares and Iwanted to go back to that
because I'm curious to hear uh,what did you do for the, the
calls, or you know the strugglesthat you had with mental health
.
How did you deal with that?
What was your go-to or whatworked for you?
Tom Smith (35:57):
You know it was sports, it was coaching.
Uh, I coached softball andbaseball for about 17 years, you
know, with my kids and it wasreally being involved in just
family.
Stuff was my out and sports.
I'm a big, huge sports guy.
You know I was still playingfor a long time.
We're big sports families, sosomething is a big game on
(36:20):
everyone's watching, you know,if they're not here, with
texting each other to see thatplay, to see that.
So that had a lot to do with it.
But back, you know, when I wasin the police department, the
stigma of don't say anything,you're going to lose your shield
, you're going to lose your gunand you're going to be sitting
behind a desk forever was 100%real and unfortunately, that's
(36:46):
the.
That was the job back then.
You know it was kind of likehey, you're a cop, deal with it.
You're supposed to, you'resupposed to deal with things
like this?
Of course you are, but you'llbe okay, you know.
So a lot of that was all right.
I'll be okay, I go to sleep,wake up.
I didn't have a nightmare.
Okay, cool, it worked.
You know it was.
Was that right?
No, by any stretch no, but Ijust found that was my, you know
(37:12):
experience with it, whereothers do go and talk to someone
or some fall into bad darksituations with alcoholism and
domestic abuse and drug abuse.
You know we're trying to dealwith it on their own without
going to talk to someone.
You know one of our bigaffiliates on our show is
(37:34):
Copline and it's a 24-hour day,seven-day-a-week, 365 hotline
that you know law enforcementcan call to talk to a retired
law enforcement officer who'sbeen there and gone through it,
so it's not just someone on theother end of a phone and I
encourage everyone to do that.
You know how we dealt with.
(37:55):
It wasn't right, but it was thetime that we were police
officers.
Right or wrong, it was what itwas, you know.
So you didn't talk to anyoneand you saw the ramifications of
that with people you workedwith, you know, in struggles
that they had.
So today there's so manyoutlets you know for officers to
(38:20):
go into and we implore thatevery show that we do, every
time I go and speak in anacademy or whatever.
You're not Superman.
You may think you are.
You may act like it every oncein a while, but you're not.
You're flesh and blood.
You got a brain, you gotfeelings, you got images that
you will never ever get out ofyour head and if you need to
(38:43):
talk to someone, you need totalk to someone, and that is
more important than your job.
I understand your careersupporting your family I get it
but if your mental health breaksdown, everything is going to
break down your job and yourfamily.
Tyra Valeriano (39:00):
You know it's interesting with that, because I
want to say that the mentalhealth it's been around for a
long time.
It just hasn't been addressed.
It's been put under the rug forever until these past few years
I've noticed a huge tick inpeople being more aware of
mental health in law enforcement.
What I find very interestingabout this is people like you
(39:23):
who have retired and actuallywent through a long career where
you experienced that stigmawhere, hey, we don't talk about
this, and you come around andyou say, hey, if you need to
talk about it, it's OK, becausethis is what it does.
And I remember when I got intolaw enforcement.
I want to say I heard somethingvery similar to that.
You know, you're human, justremember if you need to talk to
(39:52):
someone.
It was very brief, but itwasn't as serious.
So now that it's becoming moredominant in law enforcement to
address these issues, I thinkit's great.
I think that people really needto hear the consequences that
you can have long term if you'renot dealing with things that
you need to deal with because ofthe career and it's not always
about the career.
It may be what it does to yourpersonal life, what it does to
your finances, what it does toyour sleep, to your health.
I mean there's a big spectrumof what comes from mental health
(40:17):
and law enforcement and thefact that you're even talking
about it and you've had years ofexperience where it's a stigma.
We don't.
We don't talk about that, wedon't deal with it.
It's great, it's good to hearyou talking about it.
Tom Smith (40:29):
Yeah, and you know what.
It's not just what's going onin the job, it's your family too
.
You know if there's a problemat home and you're in law
enforcement, you know that canbe a conversation as well,
because at some point they'regoing to cross.
At some point problems are.
You know whether it's just jobrelated or just family.
(40:56):
At some point it is unavoidablethey are going to cross.
And you're going to go to a job.
That's a heavy job and you'regoing to be going down a dark
alley or into a dark apartmentand something in your head is
going to click about what'sgoing on at home and that's
dangerous.
They are going to cross andthat's what we want to get out
there to try to avoid, becausethe numbers lately, like you
(41:20):
just said, are astronomical,with suicides and murder,
suicides and all of that.
It's just numbers we've neverseen.
And the reason is the lack ofunderstanding of there's
problems and they need to beaddressed and departments
getting on board with that andnot hitting someone with a
(41:42):
hammer if they come with aproblem, you know, and
understanding and being moreconscious of hey, it's a good
thing, this person came andtalked to us, it's not bad, you
know, being having somethingwrong is okay.
You know, admitting something'swrong is okay, and that's how
(42:02):
you start down the road of goodmental health and helping
officers out.
Tyra Valeriano (42:09):
And I talked to Vincent last week about this,
since he worked in New York.
But I was already kind of onthis path for mental health and
wellness and law enforcement andfirst responders in general
because of an experience I hadas a supervisor.
But I remember shortly aftergetting out of law enforcement
and hearing about the suicidesin New York PD and I could not
(42:34):
believe it.
I really feel like that is whenI dove into this space, because
I wanted to understand why.
You know, just like everybodyelse, why are they doing this?
What's going on?
Of course we're not going tohave those answers, but for
people who's who's done the joband we understand that, hey,
we're not okay, we just didn'tsay something I think this was a
(42:56):
huge reminder as to why thisshould be at the forefront, why
we need to be talking about itand why we need to provide
resources.
You know I stress on the factthat resources don't have to be
out of your agency.
You know at least the agencyshould be providing first
responders or officers resourcesto reach out on their own
(43:16):
without having to go throughtheir supervisor or something
that's going to make them feeluncomfortable.
But I think that slowly butsurely, we're getting there.
There's a lot of people now inthis space and it's slowly
changing.
It's going to take a long time,but it's getting there, so I do
think that you know this isimportant.
Tom Smith (43:37):
Yeah, I agree, it's getting better, it's getting
there.
And for conversations like this, it's getting there.
And for conversations like this, platforms that we have other
officers that have platforms andbooks and seminars and all that
.
There's so much more out there.
You're 100% right, it's gettingbetter, but a little bit more
(43:58):
needs to be done and hopefullywe get over that hump.
Tyra Valeriano (44:02):
I want to ask you what your transition out of
law enforcement was like.
Did you struggle with that atall?
I mean, I want to say I didn'teven serve half the time you did
.
But you know I struggled withidentity issues.
If I'm not a cop, what am I,you know?
But did you have any struggles?
Or were you just like, hey, I'mgood to go, I'm ready to live
my life and let's take on theworld?
Tom Smith (44:26):
How did you feel about that transition?
Yeah, you know it was weird.
It was definitely odd because Idid it at the time.
I retired for more than half mylife.
That's what I did, you know andI say this to people all the
time they kind of laugh a littlebit.
It's like it's like walkingforwards for 30 years and then
someone tell you you got to walkbackwards, you're going to
(44:49):
struggle, you're going to trip,you're going to fall a couple of
times, but eventually you'llget it.
And that's kind of whatretirement was like to me.
I didn't hit me as hard as Ithought it would.
I thought I'd be a little worse.
A little worse.
You know you miss the action,you miss the running around, but
(45:11):
then when you don't have to doit, you go OK, good, I'm not, I
don't have to do that anymore.
You know, the year I retired,that summer was the riots and
everything going on around thecountry and in New York, and it
was the first time in 30 yearsthat I watched everything on TV
and not down there.
I didn't have to look at myphone and wait for, hey, get
(45:32):
into the office.
So when you see situations likethat, you go okay, I'm good.
You know I got out.
I got out physically okay.
You know, nothing really banged.
I got out physically Okay.
You know nothing really bangedup the Knicks and all that stuff
.
My head is okay, my brain'sokay.
You know I'm one of the oneswho said, okay, I made it, we're
(45:54):
good, move on next page.
You know life is life is short,but it's long, and what I mean
by that is it's short.
Sometimes that it's it speedsup to speed.
You're like, oh my God, stop,slow down.
But then when you retire youkind of go I still have a whole,
(46:15):
nother half of my life to dosomething.
Let's do it Whatever it is.
That's the best part ofretiring you do whatever you
want.
No one's telling you what to doanymore.
No one's telling you what towear, no one's telling you what
time to be somewhere.
You're it.
So you get to decide somethingthat might have been on your
mind for a long.
Oh my God, I would love to dothat.
(46:36):
Or let me go do that.
Now you can do it, and that'sthe best part of retirement
being your own boss and kind ofdictating what you want to do in
the next part of your life.
I was going to ask you youdidn't get that sudden urge to
be like I wish I was out there.
(46:57):
Oh yeah, oh, I'm not going tolie, that was Yep.
But then again, like I said,it's a, it's a quick feeling.
And the reason it's a quickfeeling is because that's where,
that's how you were.
You couldn't get away from thatbecause you saw something on
the news or saw something on TV.
You knew you were going to bethere.
So I was like, ok, let me, letme just get ready for that.
Now it's a oh wow, you know, Iwish I was down there.
(47:21):
Then you kind of go no, I don't, I really don't anymore.
I've done my riots, I've donemy.
You know all that, you know ittakes a second, or two.
But you know, that's that's kindof what happened with me.
You get all, oh, wow, Look atthose guys.
And no, no, I'm good, no, I'mokay.
Tyra Valeriano (47:41):
Yeah, okay.
Well, we are coming close to anend.
I haven't asked this in alittle bit, but I normally like
to ask my guests at the end of apodcast what is one thing that
you can take away from yourcareer that you would want to
tell your rookie self.
And the reason why I asked thisis because, for the listeners
out there who are just startingtheir career or they're wanting
(48:01):
to be law enforcement, I wantthem to take this advice and
hopefully apply it to theircareer.
Tom Smith (48:08):
That is a outstanding question.
That's a great question, and Iget asked that when I go into an
academy or criminalinvestigation course and talk to
detectives about certain thingsor definitely college what's
the number one thing you couldtell us and exactly how you
stated it?
And I say the same thing allthe time Work on your
(48:30):
communication skills.
That is the number one thing Iwill tell every cop to do,
because if you don't know how totalk to someone and you don't
know how to deal with someone,you are not going to be
successful, you're not going togrow in the job, you're not
going to be empathetic at scenes, you're not going to know how
(48:51):
to talk to a suspect, a witness,someone who just wants to be a
good citizen and tell yousomething.
You're not going to be able todo that.
So the more people you talk toin your career, the better.
Get out of your car, walkthrough a neighborhood, play
with the kids who are playingbasketball on the corner for
(49:13):
five minutes.
You know all things like that.
Communication is international.
Maybe different languages,might be different customs, but
communication skills work aroundthe world.
You know, I could have aconversation with someone
hanging out on a corner in theBronx.
The same way I can drive downthe streets in Kabul in
(49:36):
Afghanistan and have aconversation with someone,
because it's the same skill andcommunications is a skill and
you need to do that to be asuccessful police officer,
detective, sergeant, whateveryou're going to be.
How you talk to your own peopleas a supervisor, you know all
of that all goes into the samekind of basket of communications
(49:58):
and I will tell people that allthe time.
The physical part you'll get,you'll train, you'll get, you'll
train, you'll work out, you'lllearn the skill.
You'll have firearms you'llpractice, you'll do that and
you'll obtain the skillsnecessary to do that.
Communication is the same way.
If you don't practice and don'tuse it, you're not going to
know what to do or what to sayin a situation that might be
(50:20):
really, really important.
Tyra Valeriano (50:22):
I think that's a very important skill and you
know what I'm going to have tosay, being out of law
enforcement.
It's been about two and a halfyears now Since I started the
podcast.
It's like I've had to pick upon that skill again because you
well, for me personally, Ididn't really want to deal with
people anymore, I just wanted tobe around my family.
So I didn't really talk topeople and this is definitely
(50:43):
sharpened that skill for me,because you do it a lot in law
enforcement and it is importantand if if you don't work on it,
it's going to go, and if younever work on it it'll never
come.
So I think that's great for thelisteners.
Is there any contactinformation you want to share
with them if they want to reachout to you?
Tom Smith (51:03):
to share with them if they want to reach out to you.
Yeah, check our show out.
It's on YouTube, it's on everyaudio channel you can think of.
You can get in touch with us onInstagram at the Gold Shield
Show, or you can definitely getin touch with us on our website,
thegoldshieldshowcom.
There's a whole differentsections about past shows and
(51:25):
there's two buttons there.
You can go right to YouTube,you can go right to Spotify and
there's a contact sheet therewhere you can shoot us an email
and let us know what you're anidea for the show, a guest for
the show, or just talk and sayhi, we get those too, so
anything like that.
And check us out, like I saidon on every audio channel some
(51:48):
that I don't even know we're on,which is great.
Sometimes I get an email goinghey, you hit this.
Okay, you didn't even know wewere on that channel.
Uh, and youtube is great, socheck us out there as well.
Uh, youtubecom.
Slash at gold shields.
Tyra Valeriano (52:04):
Well, thank you so much for joining me today.
I have had a really good timetalking to you.
I find your story and whatyou're doing very interesting.
For those of you who arelistening, please check out his
podcast.
Tune in to all the stationsthat he shared with you.
If you guys want to reach outto him and pick his brain
because I know that I'm stillgoing to want to know more after
(52:25):
this reach out to him and allof the contact information that
he shared to the listeners.
Thank you for tuning in, besafe and I will see you on the
next one.
Thank you for joining me onChapter Blue.
If you enjoyed today's episode,be sure to follow and tag me on
social media and share withyour friends and fellow officers
.
If you're interested in joiningan episode, I'd love for you to
(52:45):
be a part of the conversation.
Until next time, stay safe,take care of yourself and
remember you're never alone inthis journey.
Welcome to Chapter Blue, the podcast where
we discuss the world of lawenforcement through an honest
conversation on tough orcontroversial topics, real
stories, perspectives andexperience from officers all
around the world.
Whether you're here forinsights on mental health,
self-care, work-life balance,getting into law enforcement,
getting out of law enforcement,or just trying to learn about
(00:21):
personal and professionalchallenges officers face every
day, you've come to the rightplace.
I'm your host, tyra Valeriano,and whether I'm going solo or
speaking with a guest, eachepisode will discuss different
aspects of life behind the badge.
Let's turn the page and stepinto Chapter Blue.
Good morning to my listeners.
I wanted to introduce you to myguest, tom Smith.
(00:44):
Thank you for joining me today.
Tom Smith (00:46):
Thank you for having me.
Tyra Valeriano (00:48):
Before we jump into our episode, I wanted to
acknowledge a few things aboutyour background that I found
very interesting.
Number one I'm a huge fan ofNew York PD.
I've said it in previouspodcasts.
I don't know if it was drilledinto my head when I was younger.
But you guys are like the starsof law enforcement.
Head when I was younger.
But you guys are like the starsof law enforcement, I don't
know.
You guys are superheroes.
And even though I've done thesame job, you guys just seem
(01:10):
different.
You're like Hollywood for thelaw enforcement realm.
So you have 30 years with NewYork PD.
You're retired now, socongratulations on that.
That's a huge accomplishment.
The next thing is you have beenmarried for 35 years.
That is also a hugeaccomplishment.
The next thing is you have beenmarried for 35 years.
That is also a hugeaccomplishment and I do want to
talk about that a little bitlater in the podcast.
(01:30):
But you know that's rare and Ithink it's weird sometimes for
some people when they saycongratulations on your marriage
.
But it's very rare to havesomebody be married for 35 years
in today's society and on topof that in law enforcement.
And the last thing is you have apodcast where you're a co-host
of Gold Shields, and yourpodcast is very different than
(01:54):
mine in many ways, but I find itvery interesting and intriguing
.
So we are going to talk aboutthat.
I kind of want to know why youwent down that path, and I'm not
asking for all of your secrets,but you guys get some really
interesting guests on your show.
So I am just curious how youguys are able to do that and how
you get the ideas for some ofthe things you talk about,
(02:16):
because it is pretty interestingand I think that the listeners
would really like that.
So, without me just taking uptoo much more of your time,
would you tell us a little bitmore about yourself and what
you're doing today?
Tom Smith (02:26):
Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me.
You know, we kind of hooked upon LinkedIn when this started
and Instagram, and I was sointrigued by your title.
I love, first of all, and justwhat you're doing, and I said
that the more of us need to dothis because messages that we
have need to get out there andpeople realize that cops are
(02:48):
human beings and cops haveemotions and they have good days
and bad days and backgroundsand families and all that.
So I think it's just soimportant that more of us do
this.
But, with that being said, likeyou said and so nicely stated,
with the NYPD and you know, itwas all I ever wanted to do.
(03:09):
My dad was an NYPD detective, soI grew up in that world.
I grew up, like you just said,but on my side, idolizing the
NYPD and detectives, because myhero was one.
You know, my dad and I werevery close and that's what I
wanted to do and there was kindof no other avenue.
(03:30):
I told a lot of people I waseither playing baseball or being
a cop.
That was it, because that'sjust what I love to do, and the
thought of being in the NYPD andfollowing in his footsteps
drove me to just everything Iwanted to do and pushing myself
to every limit, that I had to dothe best I could.
And that was because my dad hetold me when I graduated the
(03:54):
academy.
He said, listen, if you'regoing to do this job, do it
great.
Whether you're answering aphone or doing a homicide case,
just do it great.
And I thought of that andcarried that with me my entire
career.
You know, doing a case or goingto do a briefing or something
like that, just saying hey, nailthis one, Do this one great.
(04:15):
And it's because of him and Ihad a very fortunate career.
You know, working hard isworking hard.
You know you want to be thebest of what you can do, you
want to stay safe but you wantto make an impact on what you're
doing in your career.
And I wanted to do that and Ithink I did.
You know I hit every spot.
(04:36):
I kind of wanted to hit.
The only thing I didn't do thatI was.
My entire goal in the NYPD wasbeing a homicide squad and the
only reason that didn't happenwas because 9-11 happened.
And 9-11 completely changed mycareer.
You know, I did the patrolplainclothes unit, narcotics,
(04:58):
the gang unit and robbery squadin the Bronx.
And then 9-11 happened and Iwould have been very happy being
a homicide cop, being ahomicide detective in the Bronx.
And then 9-11 happened and Iwould have been very happy being
a homicide cop.
Being a homicide detective inthe Bronx was my goal because my
dad did it, so that's what Iwanted to do.
And then 9-11 happened and blewthe world off its center and my
(05:19):
career and got asked to jointhe FBI's Joint Terrorism Task
Force where I spent the last 17years of my career after 9-11
assigned there and going todifferent countries and doing
large scale terrorisminvestigations and working with,
you know, a lot of governmentagencies and had a blast doing
(05:41):
it.
You know, like I said,fortunate career and happy 30
years came and went really fastand 30 sounded like a good
number.
So that was the end of a goodrun.
Tyra Valeriano (05:54):
Something about an even number.
I don't know.
I have to agree with that.
An even number is always thebest.
Tom Smith (05:59):
Very much much that.
Tyra Valeriano (06:05):
It's funny.
You mentioned that you likebaseball, so I had a guest last
week who also retired from newyork pd.
Uh, he's been retired for 13years, but I also know that new
york pd is a very huge agency,so I'm not sure that you know
him, but I'm gonna ask youanyway.
Do you know vincent scotto?
No, probably not yes you do?
Oh wow.
Tom Smith (06:22):
well, I interviewed him last week and we spoke on
the phone a few weeks ago.
Tyra Valeriano (06:28):
Oh, awesome, yeah, so there you go.
I had somebody else from NewYork PD, but he also mentioned
that he liked baseball.
So is that something in NewYork that everybody likes is
baseball?
Tom Smith (06:39):
You know what In the NYPD the NYPD is very sports
driven you have a lot, a lot ofathletes that become cops in the
city and the NYPD sports teamsare always real good, from
football, baseball, hockey.
Their sports is very close andtaken very, very serious.
(07:02):
So you do have a lot ofathletes that become cops and I
noticed that through you knowour show there's so many
athletes that become cops and gointo the military, which I
think is a great thing becauseof the discipline and the time
structure you need to train andput into what you're doing with
your job.
So I think that translates very, very well from athlete to law
(07:26):
enforcement and military.
Tyra Valeriano (07:28):
Nice, well, I didn't know that New York PD had
all of that.
That's pretty awesome to hear.
You mentioned that you did thelast 17 years as a federal agent
, so that's very different thanworking at an agency for a city.
What is the biggest differencethat you noticed in working both
agencies once you switched?
Tom Smith (07:47):
Well, I was still.
I didn't become a federal agent, I was still assigned to the
NYPD.
I was still an NYPD detective,but it was a task force that I
was assigned to but we workedunder all the previews of the
FBI.
So we were deputized federalagents of the FBI.
(08:08):
So we were deputized federalagents but still NYPD detectives
.
So we had kind of both rolesgoing on.
But it's very, very different inthe federal world than it is in
a city or state run agencybecause you have so many other
resources, different laws,different ways to do things,
different procedures.
So it did take a little whileto get used to that because
(08:28):
everything at JTTF is on afederal level, so you're dealing
not with the districtattorney's office, you're
dealing with the United Statesattorney's office.
So there is a big differencewith warrants and wiretaps and
all that that go into thefederal system that you need you
know to do on the federal leveland the travel you know, and
(08:51):
dealing with so many securityagencies of a foreign government
and different things like that.
So it did take a littleadjusting to do.
But it was a incredible placeto work because I did so many
things that normal detective inthe NYPD doesn't get to do.
You know I traveled and workedin 18 different countries.
(09:13):
I was in Afghanistan for threemonths.
You know briefing and being ina room with the highest levels
of this government officials.
You know to brief them on cases.
So the opportunities I had wereincredible and I loved being
there.
Tyra Valeriano (09:30):
Yeah, it sounds incredible.
That's an amazing career.
You did mention something atthe beginning of the podcast and
that was that police officersare human, so I kind of want to
touch on that.
Based on your career you said alot of great things about it At
what point did it?
Did you have any struggles?
(09:52):
I mean during your career, asyou know, working in New York as
a detective, or did you faceany struggles working for the
government?
What?
What is it that you wentthrough that you think that some
of our listeners can relate to?
Tom Smith (10:05):
You know just the everyday life.
You know you're you're bound bywhat you're doing in your
career but you have to balancethat with your family and your
life.
You know to be 24, seven, sevendays a week completely job
related is going to weigh on youand I learned a long time ago
(10:26):
that and my wife helped out withthis, being a guidance
counselor.
You know to talk things through.
You know come home from a badnight and talk about it and get
it out and get it off your chest, you know, because there's only
so much you can keep inside ofyou before it bubbles over.
You know the average personsees and deals with on an
(10:50):
average five traumatic events ina lifetime.
Okay, and in the span of yourlife the average person deals
with five traumatic events.
In the NYPD I could deal withfive in an hour working when I
did in the city.
You know, through the 90s whenthe city was completely out of
(11:10):
control with crime and we werereally busy to narcotics, to
dealing what we had to in theJoint Terrorism Task Force if an
event or a terrorist attackhappened, event where a
terrorist attack happened youknow we could deal with five
traumatic events in an hour andnow times that by an eight hour
shift, you know when we were onpatrol or somewhere, a day could
(11:32):
be incredible.
So understanding that we arehuman and we do get upset and we
do have feelings people need torealize, because then I think
you have a better understandingof what this job is all about.
And I say it at the end of ourshow all the time that when you
see a cop on the street, givehim a wave, you know, say thank
(11:54):
you, because you have no ideawhat that cop just went through.
He could have came from one ofthose traumatic events and he's
sitting in his car just thinkingabout it.
This may be.
It involved a child and he hasa newborn at home, you know, and
he has to sit there and dealwith that.
So to get a wave or a thank youfrom someone could change his
(12:15):
entire day around.
And I think that's that's whatI mean by the mental part of it.
And you know, I had my big thing, mental health wise or trauma
wise or whatever.
I would have incredibly badnightmares.
That was my thing.
I never drank, I never smoked,I really didn't go out that much
, so I didn't have that to turnto.
(12:39):
Thankfully, you know, thatwasn't a hey, let me go have a
drink or let me go out orwhatever.
That wasn't a thing.
So mine was just nightmares.
I would have really really badones, either after something
happened at work or days later,or just throughout the course of
a week, uh, and some werepretty bad.
So that was uh, that was mything to kind of get through
(13:02):
with the job.
Tyra Valeriano (13:04):
You mentioned that your wife is a counselor
and you also mentioned that shesuggested you talk about some of
the things that you wentthrough.
So you know, being in lawenforcement, we've always heard
don't talk to your spouse aboutwhat you've seen or what you've
responded to, and that's kind ofI would call it a holy grail.
If you were to ask an officerout in the field, they probably
(13:27):
would say, oh no, I don't talkto my spouse about it.
Maybe not everybody.
I talk to my spouse about a lotof things.
So for me I can't say that Irelate to that.
But what is your opinion about,you know, those who feel that
they shouldn't talk aboutcertain things with their spouse
or talk to them at all, beingthat that's something you did,
(13:48):
you know what I would.
Tom Smith (13:49):
I would never get into someone's relationship or
suggest someone, you know, dosomething.
Everyone's different,everyone's relationships are
different, everyone'scommunication skills are
different, you know, in the waythey interact in their marriage.
So that all I can say is workedfor me, you know, and that's
what was important, you know, Iwas able to come home and say,
(14:13):
oh my God, you know, we did thistonight and not it was more,
you know, maybe clarified, itwasn't an in-depth oh my God,
this, this, this, this happened.
It was, hey, we had a busynight.
We got in a fight, chased a guy, you know, things like that
just to at least get the surfaceof what the night was like out
(14:33):
of you, you know, not to go intojust gory details of an
accident or a crime scene orsomething like that, it was just
, you know, even to say, comehome and say you know what, we
had a really busy night.
We didn't stop all night, Ididn't even eat, blah, blah,
blah, you know, whatever itmight've been, that was
sometimes enough, you know, andand my wife realized what the
(14:56):
city was like at the time andhow busy we were and where I
worked.
So for me to come home and saywe had a busy night.
She understood what was goingon, you know.
And then some some things wereunavoidable to tell her exactly
what happened.
You know, if I got hurt and Iwas at the hospital, you know,
(15:30):
we just we engaged three armedguys who just robbed the
supermarket, big shootout in themiddle of Broadway.
One of our cops got shot.
He was injured, he was, hesurvived, he was shot in the leg
.
But Ralph, who got shot, was atour wedding, you know.
So it was.
It was, that was a big eventthat had to had to involve a
little bit more detail of whathappened.
But things like that, I justthink it's up to the individual
(15:50):
couple to find a good spot, youknow, to talk things out.
Tyra Valeriano (15:57):
I agree with that and same here.
I mean, my husband would beinterested in some of the
details sometimes, but I wouldhave to tell him.
Like you know, this isn'tsomething I can talk to you
about, even though I would loveto.
But yeah, I agree with thatcompletely.
I mentioned in the beginning,you've been married for 35 years
.
Obviously, communication is ahuge part of your relationship,
(16:17):
as you've already said.
What is a I don't know what isit that you would call the glue
to your relationship?
To be together for 35 years andlast through an entire career
with a lot of, I guess,deployments, you can call them.
And now here you are and youguys are still holding on strong
.
Tom Smith (16:38):
Communication, like we just talked about, and you
know time management, you know,and here's the other weird thing
about this or interesting thingabout this.
I should say, what we justtalked about with coming home
from work and being able to talkabout that foot pursuit or that
fight or whatever, was involvedin my career up until I got to
(17:01):
the Joint Terrorism Task Force.
Once I got to JTTF, I couldn'ttalk to her anymore.
She was not because of thesecurity levels of the cases we
were running.
I wasn't able to talk to heranymore about what I was doing.
So that was rough, that tooksome getting used to on both our
(17:21):
parts, because she would say,hey, why do you have to go to
California?
And I would just, hey, I got ameeting.
And it might not be a meeting,it might be something else, but
I'm telling her it was a meeting.
There were times that I went toTexas and told her I was in
Florida just because of thesecurity concerns or security
(17:42):
reasons of the cases we wererunning, of the security
concerns or security reasons ofthe cases we were running.
And I mentioned before going toAfghanistan for three months.
She knew I was going toAfghanistan but had no idea why
that's hard.
That was hard on both sides notto tell her what was going on
and her, for three months livingat home taking care of three
kids, not knowing why.
(18:02):
I was in the middle of a warzone, you know.
So it was a lot of communication, a lot of understanding on her
part.
She got it.
You know, that was the bestthing about our relationship.
We met before I got in the NYPDso, and she was very close to
my parents, so she knew my dad'sand I relationship.
So she knew my dad's and Irelationship.
(18:24):
So she knew what was coming.
She knew my drive and what thejob meant to me and pretty much
knew my personality.
So she knew how I was going tobe.
You know I wasn't going to besitting by the desk, that's for
sure.
So she understood what this wasall about before I got on.
So and her relationship with mymom and with my sisters,
(18:47):
talking to them about where Iwas or what I was doing, or he's
okay, was a big part of gettingthrough everything we got
through.
Are we perfect.
You know no Things.
You know things happen, youknow, in marriages.
But we were always up frontwith one another.
And I think one of the otherbig things was time management.
(19:08):
A lot of times I had theopportunity to schedule what I
was doing, so it was okay.
I'm going away next week,what's the week like with the
kids?
What's going on, who's where,who's got to help out with what?
And thank God for her, becausethere's no way I would have had
(19:31):
a 30-year career in the levelthat I did without her, with
taking care of the kids the wayshe did on top of her full-time
job.
You know there were times shegot pulled in three different
directions between softball andbaseball and dance and all that
and and it worked out great and,uh, I thank God every day for.
Tyra Valeriano (19:51):
Wow, that's amazing.
How many kids do you guys have?
Three three kids.
Are they adults now?
Tom Smith (19:59):
Yeah, they are.
I don't, I don't, I don't, I.
I whisper that because I can'tbelieve they are, but yes, they
are.
They're all starting theircareers after their master's
degrees in college and all that.
So it is very weird to say thatand see them, but they're the
(20:20):
best kids in the world and I'mso proud of the way they are and
never got in trouble, Was greatin school.
What had?
My daughter had a incrediblysuccessful softball career in
college.
My other little girl has agreat career dancing.
She danced in college, you know, and all that.
(20:41):
And my son is going into lawenforcement, you know.
So it's.
I'm very proud of them.
Tyra Valeriano (20:48):
I was just about to ask you did somebody
decide to join law enforcement?
Tom Smith (20:53):
Yep, he's going to go into it I don't want to say
where because I'm superstitiousand things are starting with
that, so I don't want to jinxanything.
But he had kind of the samefeeling I did growing up in
wanting this and the excitementof it and what it can do for you
.
So he's going to pick up thefamily business and continue it.
Tyra Valeriano (21:19):
Awesome.
Well, I want to go back to yourretirement.
When did you retire?
What year In?
Tom Smith (21:26):
2020.
I retired one week before COVIDhit the world.
Tyra Valeriano (21:32):
Oh, wow, okay.
So the reason why I ask that isbecause you obviously had a
good dose of what lawenforcement was a while back,
compared to what it is, evenjust a little bit before 2020.
Because I want to say thatthings have only progressively
gotten worse from then.
So you kind of have an idea.
(21:53):
What would you say is the mostdifficult transition that you've
noticed law enforcement hadsince you actually experienced
it?
Tom Smith (22:01):
Yeah, On the job.
You mean, yes, like the jobdramatically changed.
You know, because here's why,when I say this all the time the
worst thing for any lawenforcement department to handle
is politics getting into lawenforcement.
That never works.
(22:21):
It doesn't work.
You know, are there some partsthat it does work when you have
people who are so backing you upand have your back and
supporting you yes, it does.
But when you start lettingoutside influences change your
policing and your tactics,that's when cops get hurt and
(22:43):
the whole defund the policedramatically hurt police
departments, it hurt recruiting,it hurt the way cops work.
You know, back when I worked,you did your job.
You went out, you locked up badguys.
Did you get in of cops gettingyou know in altercations and all
this.
And I yell all the time thatcops are allowed to defend
(23:13):
themselves.
If they're getting attacked,they're allowed to fight back.
And you see so many times thatcops don't do that.
They just like kind of hold onto the person they're fighting,
waiting for their backup to showup or whatever, to the person
they're fighting, waiting fortheir backup to show up or
whatever.
And that's when they get hurtbecause they're so afraid of the
(23:34):
ramifications that thesepoliticians and liberal DAs put
on law enforcement and thatspecter or shadow over law
enforcement of oh my God, can Ido this?
I'm going to get in trouble forthis While someone's attacking
you.
That's running through theseyoung cops' minds and that's why
they're all getting hurt andthat's why they're all, after
they get hurt, leaving the jobbecause they have no backing and
(23:58):
they have no support system.
That is saying go out and doyour job, I got your back.
Yes, if you're wrong, you'rewrong and we'll deal with that.
I'm not saying that it's ablanket support system, you know
.
But if you're doing your joband it's an action of the heart
that you're, you know yourintentions are good then we're
going to have your back andthat's not happening in today's
(24:20):
policing.
Hopefully it changes, you knownow.
Hopefully it does and you getmore young cops that want to do
this job again because it'sneeded.
The numbers around this countryare so low in every department
because of situations like thisand cops getting hurt and saying
you don't have my back, I'm outof here.
(24:41):
Why am I going to work for youof you?
And I understand that it's sad,but I understand it, but that
that's the biggest dramaticchange that I've seen from when
I worked to what's going ontoday.
Tyra Valeriano (24:53):
So, being that your son is about to join law
enforcement, what is?
Some tips, maybe, that you'veprovided him, or that you want
to provide him, to let him knowwhat he's getting himself into
these days?
Tom Smith (25:05):
Yeah, you know it's.
It's protect yourself, do whatyou need to do to protect
yourself, and go home at night,and then we'll figure it out.
You know that was kind of allall hours.
You know, go home, make sureyou go home at the end of the
night and that is the main goaland that's just what I pass on.
And he's he's very good atdefending himself, you know.
(25:25):
So on a couple of differentlevels, so that's a good thing,
but it's just it's being securein who you are and what you can
do.
Can every cop handle everysituation?
No, you know.
So you got to find your nicheof what works, what you're good
at, what you find enjoyable, andhave that in your head of
(25:48):
wanting to go to work every day.
You know, I tell him all thetime and I say, when I speak at
police academies or in colleges,when people ask me about this
job, and I said you can't likeit, you have to love it.
You can't liking this job,you're not going to be
successful, You're not going toget to where you want to be and
you're probably going to gethurt.
(26:09):
If you just like it, if youlove it, you're going to put
more into it and be more focusedon your career and what you
want out of it than just likingthe job.
Tyra Valeriano (26:21):
I agree with that.
I would say it's a love haterelationship, if you're honest.
It's a love hate relationshiprelationship because there's not
going to be every day.
You're loving your job everytime you're going.
I mean there is definitely somerough times in there, but I
absolutely agree with that.
I kind of want to talk aboutyour podcast now.
So you've been retired since2020.
(26:42):
When did you start your podcastand how did you get into these
interviews that you do and thepeople that you talk to?
What kind of geared you to gothat route?
Tom Smith (26:53):
well, thank you for bringing it up, because I'm
really proud of of what it'sbecome and we started.
We're going into our, we juststarted our third season, uh,
which blows our mind and I'lltell you why.
The story behind this and whygoing into season three is so,
you know, great for us and thefeeling we have doing it.
(27:13):
But you know the reason.
We asked before the reason westarted it and I called my
partner, dan Murphy, who and Danand I worked together in the
NYPD.
He was my sergeant in the gangunit and then he was my sergeant
again in the terrorism taskforce and we were always friends
.
Even then he was my sergeantagain in the terrorism task
force and we were always friendsEven when he was my boss.
We would just, we clicked whenwe met and, just, you know,
(27:34):
continue to be friends for allthese years.
And I rolled the idea by him oneday and just said, hey, what do
you think about doing a podcast?
And he kind of he was on thephone with me and went, ok, all
right, great, what are we doing?
And then we, you know, we did alot of talking and at the time
(27:56):
there was so much, like I juststated before so much garbage
going on with law enforcementand getting thrown under the bus
and vilified and all that, andthe military as well that we
said there's so many greatstories out there that no one
knows and we have enoughcontacts in working when we did
and how long we did we could getsome good stories out there
(28:19):
that people don't know about andkind of give people a backstage
pass to some of theseinvestigations or military
missions.
You may know about it, but notthe whole story.
So the other thing we do on ourshow is we don't talk about
other people's cases.
You know we're not sitting on acamera or on a couch just
(28:42):
rattling off a case fromwhenever we get the people who
actually did those cases on ourshow and they tell their own
story.
And that is the best thing inthe world, because even we don't
know the background of some ofthese cases.
You know I'll do most of thebooking and getting the guests
(29:05):
and all that and that's why Iget them.
You know, all right, I knowabout it, but tell me more about
it and some of the stories thatwe've gotten and heard, the you
know behind the scenesinformation on these cases, blow
our mind and if anyone watchesour show, the reaction we have
(29:26):
to some of these is legit,because when we talk to our
guests, we tell them.
I don't want to hear the wholestory.
When I'm talking to you beforethe show, tell us on the show,
because we want our reactions tobe authentic and our emotions
to be authentic, and they are.
We've been really caught offguard sometimes with some of the
stories that we hear and whathad happened in certain
(29:49):
situations.
I think that's the best part ofour show.
We don't have a script.
We tell people all the timeit's three or four people
sitting around a bar talking,that's all it is, and Dan and I
kind of guardrail the show.
Our names are on it.
It's our show, yeah, but ourshow is our guests.
They run the show and Our namesare on it.
It's our show, yeah, but ourshow is our guests, they run the
(30:09):
show and their stories and youknow that was a big part of why
you know we wanted to do it.
And when I talk about seasonthree and I laugh that we're at
this point because when westarted we had seven shows lined
up and that was it.
We didn't know what numbereight was going to be.
We were.
We got to like three or fourand started to panic a little
(30:31):
like all right, what are wedoing next week or in a couple
of weeks?
And then it kind of just itkind of took off and we started
to get phone calls from peoplehey, can I be on your show?
I did this case.
Or getting recommended.
Hey, you guys should I did thiscase.
Or getting recommended.
Hey, you guys should talk tothis guy or this you know girl,
(30:55):
about what happened in this case.
And it just went from there.
I was happy, legitimatelythrilled, if I had a show two
weeks booked out.
I was like cool, I don't haveto do anything for two weeks.
Now we're already booked intoApril and you know it's just an
amazing ride, meeting the bestpeople in the world who put so
(31:18):
much into it.
And we went from lawenforcement and the military.
And then we have victims on, wehave survivors on you know of
these crimes and their storiesand then hit on the mental
health issue that policeofficers and military vets deal
with.
So we have that angle now.
(31:38):
So it's it's just a great rideand we're proud of where we're
at and the guests that we haveand relationships that we now
have, people I can call friendsnow that three years ago would
have never entered my head, sothat means a lot to us.
Tyra Valeriano (31:58):
Well, congratulations.
It sounds very successful.
And you know, I find theapproach that you guys took on
who it is that you interviewedto be very interesting because
even as a police officer, youknow we yes, we care when we're
dealing with people's situations.
I kind of want to give you theexample of a domestic violence
victim.
You know we deal with thesepeople over and over and over
(32:20):
again and then eventually we arejust like what do you want us
to do?
And we kind of lose thatempathy side when we're dealing
with somebody over and over.
But when you hear somebody'sstory from the other side, it
kind of gives you a little bitof a different perspective and
lens to reconnect with that sideand be like OK, you know, let
me regroup and see how I can bebetter if I'm going to be doing
(32:41):
this as my job, of coursespeaking from a law enforcement
side, and it gives the publicsome kind of idea on the dynamic
of a case, a victim and theperson who's working the case.
It's a really good approachthat you guys have.
When did you guys first startyour podcast?
What year?
Tom Smith (32:59):
We started in January of 2023.
Tyra Valeriano (33:04):
Yeah, 2023.
2023.
January 2023.
Tom Smith (33:08):
We did you know what we did about two months of
research before we kicked it offand we did more checking about
what we didn't want to do thanwhat we wanted to do.
We knew what we wanted to do,but we wanted to do research of
what we didn't want to be andwhat we didn't want to portray
ourselves as.
We didn't want to be the twocops of hey remember when we did
(33:31):
that.
We didn't want to do thatbecause that's going to last
about three shows and no one'sgoing to listen.
So that's why we wanted to getmore of a dynamic approach with
stories.
You know we you fall into thecategory of true crime, which
you kind of you find a niche andyou get in there, but we are a
true crime podcast.
(33:52):
But I think we're more of atrue story podcast, which is
what we like to tell people whenwe're doing these shows,
because the stories areincredible and you would think
like you you just said, you knowthese cases but you don't know
(34:13):
what went into it.
And sometimes you think casesare exciting and they hit these
detectives hard mentally.
Just to give you an example, ifI could, anthony Espada was on
our show in the beginning inseason one and if you remember
the story of the three younggirls who were kidnapped in
Cleveland for 10 years and thenthey were found 10 years later.
(34:36):
Anthony was the police officerwho found them after one escaped
and all you would think theregular person, lay person we
are.
Oh my God, how exciting is that.
You got them, they're home, yousave them.
And that was a really smallpart for Anthony.
(34:56):
That hit him really, reallyhard mentally with going in that
house and seeing what thesegirls had to deal with for 10
years and not coming out of abedroom and being chained up and
you know all that.
And having a baby in that houseby the captor.
(35:16):
Who's the father, you know?
So it's not TV, it's not amovie.
Emotions are real and sometimesit catches you off guard of
what's going to hit you acertain way and we get that in
our stories for sure.
Tyra Valeriano (35:34):
Wow, you know.
I'm glad you brought up themental health aspect because I
know you mentioned in a littleearlier that you kind of
struggled with nightmares and Iwanted to go back to that
because I'm curious to hear uh,what did you do for the, the
calls, or you know the strugglesthat you had with mental health
.
How did you deal with that?
What was your go-to or whatworked for you?
Tom Smith (35:57):
You know it was sports, it was coaching.
Uh, I coached softball andbaseball for about 17 years, you
know, with my kids and it wasreally being involved in just
family.
Stuff was my out and sports.
I'm a big, huge sports guy.
You know I was still playingfor a long time.
We're big sports families, sosomething is a big game on
(36:20):
everyone's watching, you know,if they're not here, with
texting each other to see thatplay, to see that.
So that had a lot to do with it.
But back, you know, when I wasin the police department, the
stigma of don't say anything,you're going to lose your shield
, you're going to lose your gunand you're going to be sitting
behind a desk forever was 100%real and unfortunately, that's
(36:46):
the.
That was the job back then.
You know it was kind of likehey, you're a cop, deal with it.
You're supposed to, you'resupposed to deal with things
like this?
Of course you are, but you'llbe okay, you know.
So a lot of that was all right.
I'll be okay, I go to sleep,wake up.
I didn't have a nightmare.
Okay, cool, it worked.
You know it was.
Was that right?
No, by any stretch no, but Ijust found that was my, you know
(37:12):
experience with it, whereothers do go and talk to someone
or some fall into bad darksituations with alcoholism and
domestic abuse and drug abuse.
You know we're trying to dealwith it on their own without
going to talk to someone.
You know one of our bigaffiliates on our show is
(37:34):
Copline and it's a 24-hour day,seven-day-a-week, 365 hotline
that you know law enforcementcan call to talk to a retired
law enforcement officer who'sbeen there and gone through it,
so it's not just someone on theother end of a phone and I
encourage everyone to do that.
You know how we dealt with.
(37:55):
It wasn't right, but it was thetime that we were police
officers.
Right or wrong, it was what itwas, you know.
So you didn't talk to anyoneand you saw the ramifications of
that with people you workedwith, you know, in struggles
that they had.
So today there's so manyoutlets you know for officers to
(38:20):
go into and we implore thatevery show that we do, every
time I go and speak in anacademy or whatever.
You're not Superman.
You may think you are.
You may act like it every oncein a while, but you're not.
You're flesh and blood.
You got a brain, you gotfeelings, you got images that
you will never ever get out ofyour head and if you need to
(38:43):
talk to someone, you need totalk to someone, and that is
more important than your job.
I understand your careersupporting your family I get it
but if your mental health breaksdown, everything is going to
break down your job and yourfamily.
Tyra Valeriano (39:00):
You know it's interesting with that, because I
want to say that the mentalhealth it's been around for a
long time.
It just hasn't been addressed.
It's been put under the rug forever until these past few years
I've noticed a huge tick inpeople being more aware of
mental health in law enforcement.
What I find very interestingabout this is people like you
(39:23):
who have retired and actuallywent through a long career where
you experienced that stigmawhere, hey, we don't talk about
this, and you come around andyou say, hey, if you need to
talk about it, it's OK, becausethis is what it does.
And I remember when I got intolaw enforcement.
I want to say I heard somethingvery similar to that.
You know, you're human, justremember if you need to talk to
(39:52):
someone.
It was very brief, but itwasn't as serious.
So now that it's becoming moredominant in law enforcement to
address these issues, I thinkit's great.
I think that people really needto hear the consequences that
you can have long term if you'renot dealing with things that
you need to deal with because ofthe career and it's not always
about the career.
It may be what it does to yourpersonal life, what it does to
your finances, what it does toyour sleep, to your health.
I mean there's a big spectrumof what comes from mental health
(40:17):
and law enforcement and thefact that you're even talking
about it and you've had years ofexperience where it's a stigma.
We don't.
We don't talk about that, wedon't deal with it.
It's great, it's good to hearyou talking about it.
Tom Smith (40:29):
Yeah, and you know what.
It's not just what's going onin the job, it's your family too
.
You know if there's a problemat home and you're in law
enforcement, you know that canbe a conversation as well,
because at some point they'regoing to cross.
At some point problems are.
You know whether it's just jobrelated or just family.
(40:56):
At some point it is unavoidablethey are going to cross.
And you're going to go to a job.
That's a heavy job and you'regoing to be going down a dark
alley or into a dark apartmentand something in your head is
going to click about what'sgoing on at home and that's
dangerous.
They are going to cross andthat's what we want to get out
there to try to avoid, becausethe numbers lately, like you
(41:20):
just said, are astronomical,with suicides and murder,
suicides and all of that.
It's just numbers we've neverseen.
And the reason is the lack ofunderstanding of there's
problems and they need to beaddressed and departments
getting on board with that andnot hitting someone with a
(41:42):
hammer if they come with aproblem, you know, and
understanding and being moreconscious of hey, it's a good
thing, this person came andtalked to us, it's not bad, you
know, being having somethingwrong is okay.
You know, admitting something'swrong is okay, and that's how
(42:02):
you start down the road of goodmental health and helping
officers out.
Tyra Valeriano (42:09):
And I talked to Vincent last week about this,
since he worked in New York.
But I was already kind of onthis path for mental health and
wellness and law enforcement andfirst responders in general
because of an experience I hadas a supervisor.
But I remember shortly aftergetting out of law enforcement
and hearing about the suicidesin New York PD and I could not
(42:34):
believe it.
I really feel like that is whenI dove into this space, because
I wanted to understand why.
You know, just like everybodyelse, why are they doing this?
What's going on?
Of course we're not going tohave those answers, but for
people who's who's done the joband we understand that, hey,
we're not okay, we just didn'tsay something I think this was a
(42:56):
huge reminder as to why thisshould be at the forefront, why
we need to be talking about itand why we need to provide
resources.
You know I stress on the factthat resources don't have to be
out of your agency.
You know at least the agencyshould be providing first
responders or officers resourcesto reach out on their own
(43:16):
without having to go throughtheir supervisor or something
that's going to make them feeluncomfortable.
But I think that slowly butsurely, we're getting there.
There's a lot of people now inthis space and it's slowly
changing.
It's going to take a long time,but it's getting there, so I do
think that you know this isimportant.
Tom Smith (43:37):
Yeah, I agree, it's getting better, it's getting
there.
And for conversations like this, it's getting there.
And for conversations like this, platforms that we have other
officers that have platforms andbooks and seminars and all that
.
There's so much more out there.
You're 100% right, it's gettingbetter, but a little bit more
(43:58):
needs to be done and hopefullywe get over that hump.
Tyra Valeriano (44:02):
I want to ask you what your transition out of
law enforcement was like.
Did you struggle with that atall?
I mean, I want to say I didn'teven serve half the time you did
.
But you know I struggled withidentity issues.
If I'm not a cop, what am I,you know?
But did you have any struggles?
Or were you just like, hey, I'mgood to go, I'm ready to live
my life and let's take on theworld?
Tom Smith (44:26):
How did you feel about that transition?
Yeah, you know it was weird.
It was definitely odd because Idid it at the time.
I retired for more than half mylife.
That's what I did, you know andI say this to people all the
time they kind of laugh a littlebit.
It's like it's like walkingforwards for 30 years and then
someone tell you you got to walkbackwards, you're going to
(44:49):
struggle, you're going to trip,you're going to fall a couple of
times, but eventually you'llget it.
And that's kind of whatretirement was like to me.
I didn't hit me as hard as Ithought it would.
I thought I'd be a little worse.
A little worse.
You know you miss the action,you miss the running around, but
(45:11):
then when you don't have to doit, you go OK, good, I'm not, I
don't have to do that anymore.
You know, the year I retired,that summer was the riots and
everything going on around thecountry and in New York, and it
was the first time in 30 yearsthat I watched everything on TV
and not down there.
I didn't have to look at myphone and wait for, hey, get
(45:32):
into the office.
So when you see situations likethat, you go okay, I'm good.
You know I got out.
I got out physically okay.
You know, nothing really banged.
I got out physically Okay.
You know nothing really bangedup the Knicks and all that stuff
.
My head is okay, my brain'sokay.
You know I'm one of the oneswho said, okay, I made it, we're
(45:54):
good, move on next page.
You know life is life is short,but it's long, and what I mean
by that is it's short.
Sometimes that it's it speedsup to speed.
You're like, oh my God, stop,slow down.
But then when you retire youkind of go I still have a whole,
(46:15):
nother half of my life to dosomething.
Let's do it Whatever it is.
That's the best part ofretiring you do whatever you
want.
No one's telling you what to doanymore.
No one's telling you what towear, no one's telling you what
time to be somewhere.
You're it.
So you get to decide somethingthat might have been on your
mind for a long.
Oh my God, I would love to dothat.
(46:36):
Or let me go do that.
Now you can do it, and that'sthe best part of retirement
being your own boss and kind ofdictating what you want to do in
the next part of your life.
I was going to ask you youdidn't get that sudden urge to
be like I wish I was out there.
(46:57):
Oh yeah, oh, I'm not going tolie, that was Yep.
But then again, like I said,it's a, it's a quick feeling.
And the reason it's a quickfeeling is because that's where,
that's how you were.
You couldn't get away from thatbecause you saw something on
the news or saw something on TV.
You knew you were going to bethere.
So I was like, ok, let me, letme just get ready for that.
Now it's a oh wow, you know, Iwish I was down there.
(47:21):
Then you kind of go no, I don't, I really don't anymore.
I've done my riots, I've donemy.
You know all that, you know ittakes a second, or two.
But you know, that's that's kindof what happened with me.
You get all, oh, wow, Look atthose guys.
And no, no, I'm good, no, I'mokay.
Tyra Valeriano (47:41):
Yeah, okay.
Well, we are coming close to anend.
I haven't asked this in alittle bit, but I normally like
to ask my guests at the end of apodcast what is one thing that
you can take away from yourcareer that you would want to
tell your rookie self.
And the reason why I asked thisis because, for the listeners
out there who are just startingtheir career or they're wanting
(48:01):
to be law enforcement, I wantthem to take this advice and
hopefully apply it to theircareer.
Tom Smith (48:08):
That is a outstanding question.
That's a great question, and Iget asked that when I go into an
academy or criminalinvestigation course and talk to
detectives about certain thingsor definitely college what's
the number one thing you couldtell us and exactly how you
stated it?
And I say the same thing allthe time Work on your
(48:30):
communication skills.
That is the number one thing Iwill tell every cop to do,
because if you don't know how totalk to someone and you don't
know how to deal with someone,you are not going to be
successful, you're not going togrow in the job, you're not
going to be empathetic at scenes, you're not going to know how
(48:51):
to talk to a suspect, a witness,someone who just wants to be a
good citizen and tell yousomething.
You're not going to be able todo that.
So the more people you talk toin your career, the better.
Get out of your car, walkthrough a neighborhood, play
with the kids who are playingbasketball on the corner for
(49:13):
five minutes.
You know all things like that.
Communication is international.
Maybe different languages,might be different customs, but
communication skills work aroundthe world.
You know, I could have aconversation with someone
hanging out on a corner in theBronx.
The same way I can drive downthe streets in Kabul in
(49:36):
Afghanistan and have aconversation with someone,
because it's the same skill andcommunications is a skill and
you need to do that to be asuccessful police officer,
detective, sergeant, whateveryou're going to be.
How you talk to your own peopleas a supervisor, you know all
of that all goes into the samekind of basket of communications
(49:58):
and I will tell people that allthe time.
The physical part you'll get,you'll train, you'll get, you'll
train, you'll work out, you'lllearn the skill.
You'll have firearms you'llpractice, you'll do that and
you'll obtain the skillsnecessary to do that.
Communication is the same way.
If you don't practice and don'tuse it, you're not going to
know what to do or what to sayin a situation that might be
(50:20):
really, really important.
Tyra Valeriano (50:22):
I think that's a very important skill and you
know what I'm going to have tosay, being out of law
enforcement.
It's been about two and a halfyears now Since I started the
podcast.
It's like I've had to pick upon that skill again because you
well, for me personally, Ididn't really want to deal with
people anymore, I just wanted tobe around my family.
So I didn't really talk topeople and this is definitely
(50:43):
sharpened that skill for me,because you do it a lot in law
enforcement and it is importantand if if you don't work on it,
it's going to go, and if younever work on it it'll never
come.
So I think that's great for thelisteners.
Is there any contactinformation you want to share
with them if they want to reachout to you?
Tom Smith (51:03):
to share with them if they want to reach out to you.
Yeah, check our show out.
It's on YouTube, it's on everyaudio channel you can think of.
You can get in touch with us onInstagram at the Gold Shield
Show, or you can definitely getin touch with us on our website,
thegoldshieldshowcom.
There's a whole differentsections about past shows and
(51:25):
there's two buttons there.
You can go right to YouTube,you can go right to Spotify and
there's a contact sheet therewhere you can shoot us an email
and let us know what you're anidea for the show, a guest for
the show, or just talk and sayhi, we get those too, so
anything like that.
And check us out, like I saidon on every audio channel some
(51:48):
that I don't even know we're on,which is great.
Sometimes I get an email goinghey, you hit this.
Okay, you didn't even know wewere on that channel.
Uh, and youtube is great, socheck us out there as well.
Uh, youtubecom.
Slash at gold shields.
Tyra Valeriano (52:04):
Well, thank you so much for joining me today.
I have had a really good timetalking to you.
I find your story and whatyou're doing very interesting.
For those of you who arelistening, please check out his
podcast.
Tune in to all the stationsthat he shared with you.
If you guys want to reach outto him and pick his brain
because I know that I'm stillgoing to want to know more after
(52:25):
this reach out to him and allof the contact information that
he shared to the listeners.
Thank you for tuning in, besafe and I will see you on the
next one.
Thank you for joining me onChapter Blue.
If you enjoyed today's episode,be sure to follow and tag me on
social media and share withyour friends and fellow officers
.
If you're interested in joiningan episode, I'd love for you to
(52:45):
be a part of the conversation.
Until next time, stay safe,take care of yourself and
remember you're never alone inthis journey.
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