August 2, 2023 • 36 mins
Want to learn from a seasoned entrepreneur and licensed mental health therapist? Join us as we sit down with Scott Anderson, a businessman who has launched and sold eight businesses, to discuss entrepreneurs' common pitfalls and challenges. Scott delves into his journey, offering invaluable insights into the dangers of micromanagement and the need for delegation. He encourages a shift in mindset, challenging the typical approach of working harder and harder without seeing different results. Scott also addresses an often-overlooked problem - the lack of leadership training in corporate America that contributes to the struggles of small business owners.
Dipping into the wisdom of Mike Michalowicz's book, 'Profit First', we highlight the importance of saving for taxes and managing overhead costs. But did you know profit is even important for non-profit organizations? Scott argues they should operate with a for-profit mentality to increase their effectiveness and impact. We then switch gears to discuss the crucial steps to help struggling entrepreneurs get back on track and rediscover their purpose and passion.
Lastly, we explore the dynamics of team hiring. Scott emphasizes creating systems and processes to help your team excel. We also discuss the Predictive Index Assessment tool, a revolutionary way to retain talent and maximize the unique skills within your team. We take a moment to find value in failure while wrapping up our chat. Scott encourages entrepreneurs to view setbacks not as the end but as a golden opportunity for growth and learning. So, tune in for a rich discussion with insights and practical advice you won't want to miss!
Start for FREE
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
Thanks for Listening! Follow us on Tik Tok Facebook and Instagram
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's Ryan Dement from Chasing Financial Freedom
podcast.
I hope you guys are having agreat day.
Today on the podcast we haveScott Anderson, serial
entrepreneur, executive coachand licensed mental health
therapist.
Scott, welcome to the show.
Thanks, ryan.
Great to be here.
Thanks for coming in.
I know it was a little bit of await, but we'll get things
started off.
So, before we get into who youare and what you're doing,
(00:23):
everybody, everyone knows I'vegot a dog moose.
He's in the back barking, sowe'll do some edits, but be
patient with us.
So, scott, tell us a little bitabout who you are.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
As you said, I'm a serial entrepreneur.
I've watched 10 companies andsold eight of them, and selling
eight of them is the best part.
It's like they say about yoursecond best day is buying a boat
.
Your first best day is sellingthe boat, and I find it's like
that with businesses too, andI've been an executive coach
mainly for entrepreneurs withsmall to medium-sized businesses
(00:56):
, so two to 20 million is mysweet spot in sales.
I'm also a licensed mentalhealth therapist.
I started not-for-profit formilitary families recovering
from PTSD about 15 years ago andas part of that I went back to
graduate school.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
That's great.
So I've got to ask the questionyou started eight businesses
and sold all of them.
Why start all of them and thensell them?
Are they just not in love withthem?
Speaker 2 (01:26):
As far as there's other thing, yeah, to be fair,
two of them cratered, so sellingthem is probably a fair enough
flattering me.
What I find about me as anentrepreneur not everybody, but
we tend to be very strongstarters and not so great
finishers.
And just as a group and I knowthat about myself and a lot of
(01:49):
the folks that I coach have thesame sort of implement where
they're just intensely white,hot, interested in something for
a while.
But the interest is has abeginning, middle and an end and
in fact the worst mistake thatI made in the business that I
owned the longest was stayingwith it as long as I did.
I should have left it to mypartners, who are infinitely
(02:10):
better at running it than I wasfive years before I left the
business and in fact, when Ithinking back on mistakes that I
made, staying too long was oneof the worst ones in that
particular business.
So I've just come to acceptthat in myself.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
So what mistakes are you referring to, other than
staying too long?
What would be some of thosethat you made along the way?
Because we have a lot ofentrepreneurs and small business
owners that listen to the show.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
There are so many.
This is why we say Swedishpeople have flat foreheads From
smacking myself in the forehead.
But I've made so many mistakes.
The main mistake I think that Isee over and over that I've
made over my clients tend tomake, is that we tend to do
things over and over, expectingdifferent results the definition
of insanity.
So we'll get a business that wewith our entrepreneurial grit
(03:01):
and will, if we get to start.
We get it off the ground and itgets to two or three years and
then it begins to plateau insome way or another and what was
a great business is now only anokay business because the
trajectory is leveled off.
We can't get sales and profitto move, and so what most of us
do and I did over and over is towork harder and harder and do
(03:22):
mainly the same things again andagain and again, expecting
different results, and sales andprofits would continue to be
plateaued and I would work 50hours, then 60 hours, then 70
hours, then 80 hours, and workmyself into burnout.
And that's one of the thingsthat can make you want to get
out of a business is workingyourself into a whole, realizing
(03:44):
that I was the problem.
And in fact, in all of themistakes I've made in business,
all the business props I've had,99% have been of my own making.
But this is a classic one wherethe real answer was I needed to
start working about 20 hours aweek, but I needed to start
doing things that would have animpact so I could delegate.
(04:05):
I was micromanaging, I couldn'trecruit and keep a team.
I wasn't really good at systemsand process, though I
desperately needed it, and so Iwould make up for that or
compensate for that by trying todo everything and not
delegating anything, not reallydelegating anything and the
(04:26):
business continued to.
I've had this happen a coupleof times.
You'd think I'd learn, butthat's that, and that creates a
whole other chain of problems,because then you begin to look
at your team and say, my God, Ijust can't hire good people.
I hear that all the timethere's just, with unemployment
as low as it is, even thoughwe're in a recession, I can't
hire good people because and thetruth is that people like me,
(04:50):
entrepreneurs like me, even if Idon't intend to, I drive them
away by not being able todelegate really, genuinely
delegate by continuing tomicromanage, by continuing to
hover, by having unrealisticexpectations, by being unwilling
to train people, really.
So then I wonder why I can'tkeep people.
And so there's a revolving doorof talented people, and I'm
(05:12):
still hammering my head againstthis plateau, this glass ceiling
.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Where do you think we get that from?
Because that is a struggle thatI spent before coming into our
businesses.
I've had two failed businessesbefore this.
I attributed a lot of myfailures was through corporate
America never taught me how tobe a great leader, taught me how
to be a manager, never a greatleader, and I think that's
(05:39):
missing in the corporate worldand maybe I'm wrong.
I don't know, but I'm justtalking for myself.
But where we have these habitswe pick up, we all pick them up
somewhere.
What's a common theme for usentrepreneurs, small business
owners?
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
I think a lot of it is.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
You're exactly right about the idea of being great
doers but not great managers,and I don't know if anybody we
created.
Actually, in our practice, inour double-deer coaching
practice, we developedspecifically a leadership
development process for smallbusiness doers that need to
(06:17):
become leaders First the CEO,founder, but ultimately their
teams and some people arenaturally born with some skills,
but most of us are not, and ourskills as doers are the things
that get us promoted to beleaders, and the difference
between doership and leadershipis it's a pretty big gulf, and
(06:38):
so I think you're exactly right.
There are some principles aboutleadership that come naturally
to some people, but for mostpeople, unfortunately, being a
great salesperson or a greatserviceperson doesn't mean you
are necessarily a great leaderof sales or service people, so
it's a skill that most of us, Ithink, have to learn, and in
most entrepreneurs cases, welearn it through a series of
(07:00):
failures and figure out whatdidn't work.
To a big degree, I think toyour earlier question about why
entrepreneurs tend to get thispredictable ceiling is because
our superpower, our ability tomake something happen out of
thin air, is a great skill, andthe ability to get a business to
1 million or 2 million or 3million in sales, mainly by bit
(07:23):
exclusively of our own willpower.
That's a superpower, but it'salso kryptonite, as I'd like to
say, and sooner or later, thevery skill that got us to 2 or 3
or 5 million dollars in saleswill be the exact thing that
prevents us from scaling thebusiness and turning it into
something that's really livableand can break through those flat
tones.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
There's a book out there and I'm sure you've heard
of it, called Profit First, andI've read it several times.
Have you heard of it?
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Yeah, yeah.
Mike McCallow, it's justfantastic.
I practice a lot of those.
He saved me for myself a lot oftimes.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
I actually just finished reading it for the
third time because I'm embarkingon something you've got in
place already a nonprofit and Iwant to run my nonprofit in our
real estate space like afor-profit and at the end of the
world at the end of the world,geez boy, more coffee.
At the end of the day, when wecome to the end of our fiscal
(08:19):
year, if we have monies leftover and there's profit there, I
want to use that to either helpsomeone go through some
financial coaching literacyMaybe we have enough money to
where we could build a house fora family in need and show them
how that works.
There's just so many otherthings to do that to do through
the nonprofit.
But when you, I'm in a spacewhere a lot of nonprofits work
(08:42):
I'm in the affordable housingspace and you should see how
they run their businesses upsidedown.
All they do is just get grantsand dollars and they don't care
how far they run it into theground and they wonder why they
can't help more people.
It's crazy.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Really true.
In starting, I had been on theboards and board chairs of
several not-for-profitorganizations before starting my
own, sida-1 C3, to helpmilitary families with PTSD, and
really learned a lot about whatthe people who give money to
not-for-profits, what they'relooking at and most of them come
from business.
(09:16):
Let's face it, they made a lotof money somewhere and in a lot
of cases.
That's true.
Yeah, we tried to run ournot-for-profit in the flattest
way we possibly could, with aslittle overhead as was humanly
possible, because that's thething that grandtowers hate and
should hate is overhead.
You're paying for thetransformation, you're paying
(09:38):
for the change in people's lives, but when you see a lot of
officer salaries and rent,various overhead charges, as a
grandtower, as a donor, I just Ihate that.
I think you're exactly right.
Profit First is such a greatbook.
I've read it a lot of timesmyself and all entrepreneurs
(10:01):
should read that book.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
I love his saying in there and I'm probably going to
get it wrong.
I think he calls itentrepreneurial starvation or
something to that extent wherehe wants to eliminate that
altogether.
The first two times I read it,most of it didn't even stick.
I'm like, oh my God, this is sobackwards from what we're
(10:24):
taught.
And now, the third time into it, it's oh wow, this all sticks.
There's so many things I can doand how much more impact can I
make if I truly put that profitfirst and take care of myself
and then make sure that thebusiness not running the
business off of a small budget,but also, the same time as a lot
of businesses, have some fat intheir op-ex?
(10:45):
Why can't you get rid of mostof that?
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Yeah, absolutely.
I discovered Profit First andMike McCallowix's other books,
but that one in particular.
Just after I had one of thoseyears that a lot of
entrepreneurs have where you'reideally saving money to pay
taxes but if you don't pay taxesuntil the end of the year, you
(11:09):
sometimes get that dreaded phonecall from the accountant that
says good news and bad news.
Good news is, boy, you had agreat year, much better than we
planned.
Bad news is you owe the IRS$100,000 tomorrow.
I hope you have that, thechecking account, because you
need to run a check over for$100,000.
That happened once to me and Ididn't have $100,000.
(11:30):
Fortunately, I discoveredProfit First shortly thereafter
and I've never had a problemlike that again.
Again, we learn so much by ourfailures, but that's one thing
that Mike McCallowix or ProfitFirst can completely eliminate
and also makes you focus on OPEXabsolutely.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Because in the space that we're in the real estate
space, it's backwards to mostservice businesses because we're
going to spend a lot of moneyup front to build a house and
then make money on the back end.
That back end is not all profitand until I saw that, let's say
, we had $50,000 profit on a$50,000 gross on that house,
(12:13):
still got to pay taxes, stillgot to pay owner distributions,
there's still payroll, there'sall this and an OPEX in there
and when you start breaking thatdown, it's man, I was missing a
lot of that and that's slowlybut surely.
We've done that over the lastseveral years to get that
together and then now I'm goingto try to really implement it
into that non-profit.
But the question is and I wantto get into your coaching and
(12:34):
what you're doing, because itsounds like you're doing some
pretty interesting stuff how doyou take a business that's
struggling in all those aspectsand help that entrepreneur get
back on track and find theirpassion and their purpose for
why they started the business?
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Exactly, and this is the thing that seems so
counterintuitive, in fact, tothe point where a lot of
entrepreneurs will just shaketheir heads and say that can't
be possible.
But the short version is thatthe way to make more is to work
less, and for to break, it'sdefinitely to break through a
plateau, but if you're runningyour business by mainly working
(13:12):
harder or worrying more, or both, we're never going to break
through to a life worth livingthat way, and so the biggest
switch is to help entrepreneurssee that 80% of what they do is
not what they set out to do inthe beginning, was not really
the genius of their business,not the magic that made their
business start, but that aftertwo or three years, the 80% of
(13:36):
what they do is really doing thework that they can't delegate
or haven't been able tosystematize or turn into a
process, and so mainly what wewant to do is to create a
schedule that's completely flipflop, where, instead of doing
10% maybe of the things thatonly they can do that are really
(13:56):
magical and that theircustomers love and their market
loves, that really aretransformational, we want to
flip flop their schedule.
So 80% of what they do in a dayis in that genius zone and 20%
or less ideally more like 10%has to do with tasks that are.
The others generally can dobetter, faster and cheaper, and
(14:18):
this is so counterintuitive thatit really takes a desperate
entrepreneur to begin to evenlook at it.
It's very similar with profit.
First, until you're in a lot ofpain, you don't necessarily
look at this.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
But it's after you realize after a while, that boy.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
My sales have not moved, my profit has not moved,
but my life has moved.
Now my children are needing togo to college one day, or we're
wanting to have a vacation oneof these days, or we want to
retire one of these days, butour business is not growing
along with our lifestyle.
What am I going to do so thatthe biggest switch is to really
identify what are the thingsthat, as the entrepreneur, only
(14:56):
you can do, that really move theneedle, and almost always that
involves on strategy and sales.
Not always, but in most cases,the magic that the entrepreneur
brings is in those areas, butthey're at a point in their
lives where they're spending 10hours a week doing that and 60
hours a week doing tasks thatothers could do better, faster
and cheaper and I lived thatlife in all.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
three of my businesses first failed, first
two failed and now this one.
When I first started is I wasdoing and this is not a bad
knock, but I was doing $7 anhour work.
I was posting social mediastuff, I was doing blog posting,
I was doing stuff to get ourname out there, and it's I had
to reinvent myself to learn allthat stuff when I could have
(15:42):
found somebody else to help me.
And I would probably say twoand a half, three years into
this current business I finallyrealized that a strong VA that
has the skill sets that I waslooking for even if it took me
weeks, if months to find theright person, was worth it.
And now I'm working on a secondVA, because my first VA is very
(16:04):
good at video and I'm lookingfor somebody now can do social
and really take us up anothernotch.
And I don't want to do that.
I want to work on the business,not in the business, and
there's people out there thathave better skills than I do.
I know that.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
I'm not offended, no, absolutely.
When I'm honest with myself andmost of my entrepreneurial
clients, there's really two orthree things that they do that
nobody else can do, but which iswhich also accounts for the
trajectory of the business andthe fact that it's survived and
thrive for two, three, four,five years.
But there's only two or threethings.
(16:39):
Really, it isn't 20 things,that isn't even 10.
You see, it's I don't knowbetween two and five things that
the founder does that are trulyimportant and really do move
the needle.
But if we only spend 10% of ourday doing those magical things,
we're never going to make anyprogress.
And it's one of the things Ifound is a lot of people realize
, okay, I have to hire a team,and more and more people are
(17:02):
hiring virtual assistants orexecutive assistants or what
have you, which can be greatleverage.
But what I've heard a lot of myclients say is, yeah, but I
keep firing people that fail orI can't find.
They say I can't find peoplethat really work.
One of the things that we takeour clients through we have a
program called CEO Freedom.
(17:23):
One of the things that we takeour clients through is a process
that will help actually givethem technology so they can
predict with 90% accuracy howfolks are really going to show
up at the job.
Because most of us have suchstrong interview bias, we tend
to hire people we like or peoplewho are like us, and those
people tend to wipe out becausepeople like us aren't good at
(17:45):
the details you just described.
But that's the main thing,because a lot of people know,
yeah, I've got to get a VA, I'vegot to get a team, I've got to
introduce systems or processes,but they also they've tried and
failed a lot of times and mainlyit's because they don't have a
technically model in order tohire the right people for the
right job and then to managethem in a way that's that will
(18:07):
retain them and actually makethem love to come to work every
day.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
It's an SOP, really standard operating procedure.
If you don't have it in place,how are you supposed to bring
somebody in to do that role, tosupport you, one but two, to
excel at the role and then wantto stay, and I failed at that
many times along this path, thisjourney.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
And also to create KPIs or other quantitative
measures.
So the end more importantly, ina way, your partner knows, your
team member knows whetherthey're actually fulfilling the
requirements of the job in ameasurable, indisputable,
quantifiable way.
Unfortunately, as entrepreneurswe have this sort of gut
instinct sometimes that they'renot measuring up or they don't
(18:50):
do it like we would do it, andwe lose confidence in them and
our employees feel that.
But if we can instead reallymeasure are they doing what we
hired them to do, then it reallydoes take away a lot of those
management mistakes.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
It's amazing because you talked about something that
I've focused on a lot and I'vestruggled with was hiring people
that are different than you,with different skill sets.
It's a tough struggle out there, but the second person I hired
was opposite of me and totalintrovert not an operator,
really was about the numbers,but also had a different type of
(19:28):
background when it came tohousing.
It's amazing, just a wholedifferent mindset of how he sees
the business, the world and howhe approaches our projects.
He's like my yin to my yang,yin-yang type of thing.
But the thing I talk about is,if you surround it you've said
this you surround yourself withpeople that are like you, you're
(19:50):
just going to get the sameresults over and over again
definition of insanity.
But if you start adding, justdropping some of those different
people into your space, watchyour business grow, and we truly
have seen that happen.
But I'm backing up to this longquestion is why are we so
afraid to bring in individualsthat are different than us in
(20:11):
our business?
Speaker 2 (20:12):
I think that part of it is that we don't have the
tools.
Most entrepreneurs don't havethe tools, which is why, in our
CEO freedom program, one of thethings that we bring to the
party is performance projectiontechnology.
In our case, we use predictiveindex, but what it tells you is,
first of all, it helps youcreate a model so that you can
(20:32):
identify, first of all, thethings that you're best at, but
also, most importantly, theplaces where you're weak and the
places where you really need tohelp, and we can create a
online model for what that yanglooks like that's different than
you.
Then we can create a jobdescription out of that.
But, more importantly, we cancreate an online assessment that
(20:52):
the individual can take so thatwe know with 90% accuracy
whether they can actually showup and be that person.
And this is the problem withinterviewing is that most
entrepreneurs are not greatinterviewers.
In fact, most people aren'tgreat interviewers.
So one of the things predictiveindex helps us do is to discern
, with 90% accuracy and, using areally great technology, to
(21:15):
tell us will these peopleactually show up on the job and
perform the way we need them toor not, notwithstanding how they
interview or even what theresume says.
So, mainly, I found thatentrepreneurs know in their
hearts that they just are greatinterviewers, and they've had
failure after failure.
So we try to give them toolsthat will give them confidence
(21:36):
to make decisions with greateraccuracy and projectability.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Without giving away your secret sauce, whatever.
What's predictive index?
It sounds very exotic and verycool, so I have to ask a little
bit.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Sure, sure, check out predictiveindexcom.
Okay, so today it's atechnology that we've used for a
long time and there are anumber of performance projection
instruments that are availabletoday.
The reason we use predictiveindex is that it's been in
business for geez, almost 16years, I think, or no, yeah,
(22:11):
about 60 years.
And the reason that's importantis because they have analyzed
more potential hires and thendone the back end correlative
studies to see how they actuallydid perform or they actually
did get in the job, and that'sthe key.
The correlative studies arewhat gives predictive index the
statistical projectability thatit has, and that's the key to it
(22:33):
.
There are a number of onlineinstruments that are available
today, but what's important isthat in predictive index case,
it's the most statisticallyprojectable one therein.
In fact, they have done northof 50 million assessments.
They've evaluated 50 millionpotential employees and done
(22:54):
over 500 correlative studies inthe back end, which makes it so
much more projectable, and italso means it's EOC compliant.
So the Labor Department willallow you to use tools like this
because they're so accurate tohire and fire people.
But this takes the guessworkout of it, and I think that's
the main thing I found is not toprogram was I.
Just I knew my gut instinct wasterrible.
(23:15):
I could see it in the bat, inthe wrong hire over and over
again, but I didn't see any wayto get out of it.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
So Predictive Index, I'm guessing it sounds like
something that's like the diskmethod.
It's just on steroids, so it'sa little bit more in-depth.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
It's yeah, it's in some way.
Disk probably is a sort of agrandchild of Predictive Index.
Disk is not EEOC compliant.
It's very good, but it's notEEOC compliant because they
don't have enough back-endprojection or projectability and
correlative studies.
So disk is great, but I preferPredictive Index because it is
the most accurate instrument onthe market and when, as a result
(23:55):
, the our clients can hire withgreat confidence.
Predictive Index assessmentsalso give you coaching and
management, like scoutingreports that tell you here's how
you need to coach, like youmentioned, the VA you hire
that's introverted and differentfrom you.
Managing that person is waydifferent than managing somebody
like you or me, where we cantalk about it and you up it up
(24:16):
and pat each other on the back.
That's not going to work withan introvert, and so one of the
things PI gives you and ourclients get as a result is this
is a, a management guidebasically, that tells you step
by step here's how to coach andlead these people, because
they're different than you areand the things that would be
meaningful to you aren't goingto be meaningful to them, and
(24:37):
that's the key.
The whole problem right now ishow do we first of all identify
great talent and recruit them,but, more importantly, how do we
retain them?
So many of my clients complainof a revolving door where they
train people up, they polish uptheir resume and then they're
gone.
So the key really is not justidentifying these rock star
people that are different thanwe are, but then to keep them
(24:59):
over time where they can becomemore and more about, and that's
where most of us fall down.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Oh God, we fall down so many times on that.
But I've got an off, kind ofoff the beaten path question Can
you use predictive index topotentially use it to a
contractor?
When I say a contractor, is itonly?
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Is it not only no, any kind of relationship, any
kind of business relationship,but can help you find it, can
help you choose an attorney oran account.
They'll be a little surprised.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Are you really Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (25:31):
absolutely.
They may not be willing to doit, but it really helps.
It really helps withcommunication, for example.
Most entrepreneurs are goodwith big ideas and big concepts,
but we have trouble landing theplanes.
So most of us do need peoplewho are SOP oriented, detailed
oriented, et cetera.
If that's what you need in anaccountant, an editorial or any
(25:55):
other contractor online that youwould find online at Fiber,
let's say it's a great way tofind out what's going on with
those people, how to work withthem not necessarily manage them
as employer, but how to be agood partner with them.
The other thing that this tooldoes that's really important is,
if you've had enough people, doa PI.
One of the things is that wecan identify people who you've
(26:17):
hired and have failed, who havetaken a PI, and we know what
that template is or what thatmodel is, and we can be sure not
to hire someone who has thatprofile.
By contrast, we can identifyyour rock stars and get a given
role, let's say, editing andonce we know what their PI
profile is, then we can try tohire against that profile, and
(26:39):
so it allows us to clone notreally, but clone people to
understand what their uniqueskills are and to hire them
right on the button.
That gives you so much morehiring confidence on the, and
when you match that with the jobdescription, then your chances
of retaining that person aremuch, much greater.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Wow, I'm going to take a look at that because I
just thought of, because we gothrough realtors a lot.
It's just nothing.
I'm not trying to say badthings, but some have better
work ethic than others and Ineed to find those individuals
because there's someinter-properties.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Absolutely.
There are some realtors thatare way extroverted in their
people but terrible as detail,or maybe are terrible with their
persistence and their sort ofdrive day after day.
But you can definitely do that.
Have your favorite realtor,take a PI assessment and then
you'll know the profile thatworks best for you and for your
(27:37):
company and your culture.
That's one of the mostimportant things about PI is
that it's not, you know, thereisn't just one kind of realtor
that succeeds, but there'sprobably one that does best in
your company and in your cultureand that's what PI can tell you
.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Is the test itself or the platform, is it?
I'm guessing it's like disk youhave to pay per assessment.
Or is there some other route?
Or is it cost prohibitive forsmaller businesses?
Speaker 2 (28:07):
It may be cost prohibitive for some businesses
At least.
If you want, you can leave myemail in the show notes and if
anybody wants to know more aboutit, I'm happy to explain it, or
we could talk offline too.
Yeah, for the average smallbusiness it's probably cost
prohibitive.
It depends on how manyemployees you have and on how
many people you need tointerview and hire a year.
(28:29):
Probably speaking, you needprobably north of 50 a year for
it to be cost effective, butthis is a tool that I can
provide for my clients in a waythat is cost effective.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Interesting.
I love that.
I'll have to check it out andwe'll talk offline and go
through.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
I'd love to.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
That would be great.
So a little bit more about whatyou're doing on the coaching
side.
What is your typical clientprofile and where they add in
this whole sphere ofentrepreneurship or small
business owner?
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Sure, we've already described the experience both
you and I have had, where youhave a good idea and buy
willpower and sweat and midnightoil.
You get the business to acouple of million dollars and
you're pinching yourself.
You're happy, but you realizethat on the other hand, you're a
little bit trapped and thatwhat was just miraculous for you
(29:24):
to be able to start a businessis now feels like a little bit
of a trudge.
The clients that I typicallywork with they are entrepreneurs
.
They have small to medium sizedbusinesses and they typically
get stuck someplace in the twoto $10 million range where the
business is good and they'regrateful, but it's not as good
(29:44):
as it could be or maybe as theyoriginally envisioned.
What they especially notice isthat the role they're playing in
it isn't as much fun as it was.
As one of my clients said, it'sbecome adult daycare, if that
resonates for you at all.
You're the sort of person thatI work for, where it's pretty
good but it could be a lotbetter, especially if you find
(30:07):
that either sales or profits ormarket share are starting to
plateau where the trajectorythat used to be straight up has
leveled off.
If you're in that kind of aspot, and especially if you're
getting tired or you've eversaid I feel burned out, then
that's the sort of person I wantto talk to.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
How are your clients?
And you said it earlier we'rein a recession.
I agree with you.
There's so much going on there.
How does that affect yourclient base in future business?
Are more small business ownersreaching out?
Speaker 2 (30:41):
What I'm finding is that there are some businesses
that are interest rate sensitiveand they definitely have some
issues Generally feeling orfinding that the recession is
overblown.
Really, most of my clientstheir industries are okay.
The biggest problem thatthey're having is that they are
unable to find and to retain thepeople that they really need to
(31:04):
propel their business through aplateau.
That's the biggest singleproblem.
I'm in Omaha, nebraska, wherethe unemployment is, I think,
number two in the country atunder 3% it's like 2.4%.
You can't find anybody to doanything.
That's the biggest problem Ifound with most of my clients is
talent.
Number one is finding thepeople.
(31:27):
Number two even worse iskeeping the people.
If you have a revolving door ofemployees that don't work out
generally, I found part of theproblem is that you're not
defining the role in enoughdetail, but you're also not.
The process of recruiting andinterviewing is off.
That's why you're not just notgetting the people, but you're
(31:48):
not retaining the people.
That seems to be the areathat's hurting my clients the
most right now is that they justcan't seem to get enough
traction to grow to the nextlevel.
The other problem that I'mfinding I don't know if your
clients are seeing this in thereal estate business.
You may see this.
I've got clients that aredevelopers and of multi-family
and things like that.
(32:08):
Their biggest problem isinsurance.
Yes, we've got clients in theMidwest who used to be insured
for one big hailstorm a year ormaybe one every two years, but
now they're having three majorhailstorms a year and the
underwriter or the carriers aresaying pass, we're going to get
out of the market.
You see this in Florida andCalifornia, but you also see it
(32:29):
nationwide.
If you're in a business thatrequires you to have insurance
for natural disaster, that'sbecoming prohibitively expensive
.
I've got one multi-familyclient who all state or state
farm.
One of them came to him andsaid okay, we'll give you a
policy, but you have to have a$200,000 per incident deductible
(32:49):
.
That's not insurance, that'sself-insurance.
I don't know what it is.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
No, it's mostly workforces much bigger problem
than anything else right now.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
That's just a lot.
We're going to get right, but Igot to learn to speak English
again.
Guys, we're going to wrap thisup, but I just had one other
question.
Is the workforce aspect inbeing able to get the traction
on the front end and then alsokeeping them on the back end?
Any of that related to that Cword we have going around before
(33:23):
COVID, the pandemic?
Or you just think that's just ahiring issue, or both?
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
What we know from the Gallup people is that an
astonishingly high percentage ofthe American workforce says
that they feel mostly or alwaysburned out.
It's 77%.
One of the biggest things thatwe just have to do and most
people expected it to go downwhen COVID ended if it has ended
(33:53):
last year but it didn't go down.
In fact, it went up.
People are feeling more burnedout now, post COVID if that's a
thing than they were before.
One of the things that we haveto contend with.
We don't necessarily have toagree with it or disagree with
it, but one of the things wehave to contend with as
employers is we've got aworkforce that's very sensitive
to, especially the millennialworkforce, which is most of the
(34:15):
workforce, is very sensitive toand likely so in a lot of cases
to how they are treated, theexperience they have, et cetera.
In a lot of cases, they're notwilling, as my generation was,
to trade time for money at anycost.
One of the things that wereally work with our clients is
(34:36):
to give them managementleadership skills that work with
the current workforce.
Part of that is putting theright people in the right seats
of the bus and being confidentwhen you hire them to do that,
but also to know what works.
Our leadership developmentprogram, for example, is
specifically designed towardmanaging the millennial
workforce and also trainingmillennials to manage other than
(34:58):
millennial, because it's notthe same at all as it used to be
.
It's very important to get thatright.
There are nuances that are.
I find that's maybe the biggestsingle challenge that our
clients are having today.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
Wow, we can unpack so much there.
There's so much going on inthis space and there's so many
things that entrepreneurs gothrough the best way.
Someone can reach out to you orchannel if they want to work
with you.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Go to DoubleDareU, which is DoubleDareus, and
information about everything wetalked about is there.
If you'd like to talk aboutpredictive index, about our CEO
freedom program or anything likethat, you can schedule an
appointment right there on thesite.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
Great.
I will also link it in the shownotes.
I'll put that in there insteadof your email address so they
can reach out to you there.
Probably that, yeah, okay,perfect, sir, thank you for
coming on the show.
It's been an honor and alsoit's just been so great to have
you share your information withthe listeners.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
My pleasure, Ryan.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
But also you've gone through the same thing some of
us have also gone through is thefailure and so forth, and that
humbles us, but it also is a lotof learning experience out of
that and I thank you for sharingthat knowledge and experience
with the listeners my pleasure,thank you, ryan.
All right, thank you.
It's Ryan Dement from Chasing Financial Freedom
podcast.
I hope you guys are having agreat day.
Today on the podcast we haveScott Anderson, serial
entrepreneur, executive coachand licensed mental health
therapist.
Scott, welcome to the show.
Thanks, ryan.
Great to be here.
Thanks for coming in.
I know it was a little bit of await, but we'll get things
started off.
So, before we get into who youare and what you're doing,
(00:23):
everybody, everyone knows I'vegot a dog moose.
He's in the back barking, sowe'll do some edits, but be
patient with us.
So, scott, tell us a little bitabout who you are.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
As you said, I'm a serial entrepreneur.
I've watched 10 companies andsold eight of them, and selling
eight of them is the best part.
It's like they say about yoursecond best day is buying a boat
.
Your first best day is sellingthe boat, and I find it's like
that with businesses too, andI've been an executive coach
mainly for entrepreneurs withsmall to medium-sized businesses
(00:56):
, so two to 20 million is mysweet spot in sales.
I'm also a licensed mentalhealth therapist.
I started not-for-profit formilitary families recovering
from PTSD about 15 years ago andas part of that I went back to
graduate school.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
That's great.
So I've got to ask the questionyou started eight businesses
and sold all of them.
Why start all of them and thensell them?
Are they just not in love withthem?
Speaker 2 (01:26):
As far as there's other thing, yeah, to be fair,
two of them cratered, so sellingthem is probably a fair enough
flattering me.
What I find about me as anentrepreneur not everybody, but
we tend to be very strongstarters and not so great
finishers.
And just as a group and I knowthat about myself and a lot of
(01:49):
the folks that I coach have thesame sort of implement where
they're just intensely white,hot, interested in something for
a while.
But the interest is has abeginning, middle and an end and
in fact the worst mistake thatI made in the business that I
owned the longest was stayingwith it as long as I did.
I should have left it to mypartners, who are infinitely
(02:10):
better at running it than I wasfive years before I left the
business and in fact, when Ithinking back on mistakes that I
made, staying too long was oneof the worst ones in that
particular business.
So I've just come to acceptthat in myself.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
So what mistakes are you referring to, other than
staying too long?
What would be some of thosethat you made along the way?
Because we have a lot ofentrepreneurs and small business
owners that listen to the show.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
There are so many.
This is why we say Swedishpeople have flat foreheads From
smacking myself in the forehead.
But I've made so many mistakes.
The main mistake I think that Isee over and over that I've
made over my clients tend tomake, is that we tend to do
things over and over, expectingdifferent results the definition
of insanity.
So we'll get a business that wewith our entrepreneurial grit
(03:01):
and will, if we get to start.
We get it off the ground and itgets to two or three years and
then it begins to plateau insome way or another and what was
a great business is now only anokay business because the
trajectory is leveled off.
We can't get sales and profitto move, and so what most of us
do and I did over and over is towork harder and harder and do
(03:22):
mainly the same things again andagain and again, expecting
different results, and sales andprofits would continue to be
plateaued and I would work 50hours, then 60 hours, then 70
hours, then 80 hours, and workmyself into burnout.
And that's one of the thingsthat can make you want to get
out of a business is workingyourself into a whole, realizing
(03:44):
that I was the problem.
And in fact, in all of themistakes I've made in business,
all the business props I've had,99% have been of my own making.
But this is a classic one wherethe real answer was I needed to
start working about 20 hours aweek, but I needed to start
doing things that would have animpact so I could delegate.
(04:05):
I was micromanaging, I couldn'trecruit and keep a team.
I wasn't really good at systemsand process, though I
desperately needed it, and so Iwould make up for that or
compensate for that by trying todo everything and not
delegating anything, not reallydelegating anything and the
(04:26):
business continued to.
I've had this happen a coupleof times.
You'd think I'd learn, butthat's that, and that creates a
whole other chain of problems,because then you begin to look
at your team and say, my God, Ijust can't hire good people.
I hear that all the timethere's just, with unemployment
as low as it is, even thoughwe're in a recession, I can't
hire good people because and thetruth is that people like me,
(04:50):
entrepreneurs like me, even if Idon't intend to, I drive them
away by not being able todelegate really, genuinely
delegate by continuing tomicromanage, by continuing to
hover, by having unrealisticexpectations, by being unwilling
to train people, really.
So then I wonder why I can'tkeep people.
And so there's a revolving doorof talented people, and I'm
(05:12):
still hammering my head againstthis plateau, this glass ceiling
.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Where do you think we get that from?
Because that is a struggle thatI spent before coming into our
businesses.
I've had two failed businessesbefore this.
I attributed a lot of myfailures was through corporate
America never taught me how tobe a great leader, taught me how
to be a manager, never a greatleader, and I think that's
(05:39):
missing in the corporate worldand maybe I'm wrong.
I don't know, but I'm justtalking for myself.
But where we have these habitswe pick up, we all pick them up
somewhere.
What's a common theme for usentrepreneurs, small business
owners?
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
I think a lot of it is.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
You're exactly right about the idea of being great
doers but not great managers,and I don't know if anybody we
created.
Actually, in our practice, inour double-deer coaching
practice, we developedspecifically a leadership
development process for smallbusiness doers that need to
(06:17):
become leaders First the CEO,founder, but ultimately their
teams and some people arenaturally born with some skills,
but most of us are not, and ourskills as doers are the things
that get us promoted to beleaders, and the difference
between doership and leadershipis it's a pretty big gulf, and
(06:38):
so I think you're exactly right.
There are some principles aboutleadership that come naturally
to some people, but for mostpeople, unfortunately, being a
great salesperson or a greatserviceperson doesn't mean you
are necessarily a great leaderof sales or service people, so
it's a skill that most of us, Ithink, have to learn, and in
most entrepreneurs cases, welearn it through a series of
(07:00):
failures and figure out whatdidn't work.
To a big degree, I think toyour earlier question about why
entrepreneurs tend to get thispredictable ceiling is because
our superpower, our ability tomake something happen out of
thin air, is a great skill, andthe ability to get a business to
1 million or 2 million or 3million in sales, mainly by bit
(07:23):
exclusively of our own willpower.
That's a superpower, but it'salso kryptonite, as I'd like to
say, and sooner or later, thevery skill that got us to 2 or 3
or 5 million dollars in saleswill be the exact thing that
prevents us from scaling thebusiness and turning it into
something that's really livableand can break through those flat
tones.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
There's a book out there and I'm sure you've heard
of it, called Profit First, andI've read it several times.
Have you heard of it?
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Yeah, yeah.
Mike McCallow, it's justfantastic.
I practice a lot of those.
He saved me for myself a lot oftimes.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
I actually just finished reading it for the
third time because I'm embarkingon something you've got in
place already a nonprofit and Iwant to run my nonprofit in our
real estate space like afor-profit and at the end of the
world at the end of the world,geez boy, more coffee.
At the end of the day, when wecome to the end of our fiscal
(08:19):
year, if we have monies leftover and there's profit there, I
want to use that to either helpsomeone go through some
financial coaching literacyMaybe we have enough money to
where we could build a house fora family in need and show them
how that works.
There's just so many otherthings to do that to do through
the nonprofit.
But when you, I'm in a spacewhere a lot of nonprofits work
(08:42):
I'm in the affordable housingspace and you should see how
they run their businesses upsidedown.
All they do is just get grantsand dollars and they don't care
how far they run it into theground and they wonder why they
can't help more people.
It's crazy.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Really true.
In starting, I had been on theboards and board chairs of
several not-for-profitorganizations before starting my
own, sida-1 C3, to helpmilitary families with PTSD, and
really learned a lot about whatthe people who give money to
not-for-profits, what they'relooking at and most of them come
from business.
(09:16):
Let's face it, they made a lotof money somewhere and in a lot
of cases.
That's true.
Yeah, we tried to run ournot-for-profit in the flattest
way we possibly could, with aslittle overhead as was humanly
possible, because that's thething that grandtowers hate and
should hate is overhead.
You're paying for thetransformation, you're paying
(09:38):
for the change in people's lives, but when you see a lot of
officer salaries and rent,various overhead charges, as a
grandtower, as a donor, I just Ihate that.
I think you're exactly right.
Profit First is such a greatbook.
I've read it a lot of timesmyself and all entrepreneurs
(10:01):
should read that book.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
I love his saying in there and I'm probably going to
get it wrong.
I think he calls itentrepreneurial starvation or
something to that extent wherehe wants to eliminate that
altogether.
The first two times I read it,most of it didn't even stick.
I'm like, oh my God, this is sobackwards from what we're
(10:24):
taught.
And now, the third time into it, it's oh wow, this all sticks.
There's so many things I can doand how much more impact can I
make if I truly put that profitfirst and take care of myself
and then make sure that thebusiness not running the
business off of a small budget,but also, the same time as a lot
of businesses, have some fat intheir op-ex?
(10:45):
Why can't you get rid of mostof that?
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Yeah, absolutely.
I discovered Profit First andMike McCallowix's other books,
but that one in particular.
Just after I had one of thoseyears that a lot of
entrepreneurs have where you'reideally saving money to pay
taxes but if you don't pay taxesuntil the end of the year, you
(11:09):
sometimes get that dreaded phonecall from the accountant that
says good news and bad news.
Good news is, boy, you had agreat year, much better than we
planned.
Bad news is you owe the IRS$100,000 tomorrow.
I hope you have that, thechecking account, because you
need to run a check over for$100,000.
That happened once to me and Ididn't have $100,000.
(11:30):
Fortunately, I discoveredProfit First shortly thereafter
and I've never had a problemlike that again.
Again, we learn so much by ourfailures, but that's one thing
that Mike McCallowix or ProfitFirst can completely eliminate
and also makes you focus on OPEXabsolutely.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Because in the space that we're in the real estate
space, it's backwards to mostservice businesses because we're
going to spend a lot of moneyup front to build a house and
then make money on the back end.
That back end is not all profitand until I saw that, let's say
, we had $50,000 profit on a$50,000 gross on that house,
(12:13):
still got to pay taxes, stillgot to pay owner distributions,
there's still payroll, there'sall this and an OPEX in there
and when you start breaking thatdown, it's man, I was missing a
lot of that and that's slowlybut surely.
We've done that over the lastseveral years to get that
together and then now I'm goingto try to really implement it
into that non-profit.
But the question is and I wantto get into your coaching and
(12:34):
what you're doing, because itsounds like you're doing some
pretty interesting stuff how doyou take a business that's
struggling in all those aspectsand help that entrepreneur get
back on track and find theirpassion and their purpose for
why they started the business?
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Exactly, and this is the thing that seems so
counterintuitive, in fact, tothe point where a lot of
entrepreneurs will just shaketheir heads and say that can't
be possible.
But the short version is thatthe way to make more is to work
less, and for to break, it'sdefinitely to break through a
plateau, but if you're runningyour business by mainly working
(13:12):
harder or worrying more, or both, we're never going to break
through to a life worth livingthat way, and so the biggest
switch is to help entrepreneurssee that 80% of what they do is
not what they set out to do inthe beginning, was not really
the genius of their business,not the magic that made their
business start, but that aftertwo or three years, the 80% of
(13:36):
what they do is really doing thework that they can't delegate
or haven't been able tosystematize or turn into a
process, and so mainly what wewant to do is to create a
schedule that's completely flipflop, where, instead of doing
10% maybe of the things thatonly they can do that are really
(13:56):
magical and that theircustomers love and their market
loves, that really aretransformational, we want to
flip flop their schedule.
So 80% of what they do in a dayis in that genius zone and 20%
or less ideally more like 10%has to do with tasks that are.
The others generally can dobetter, faster and cheaper, and
(14:18):
this is so counterintuitive thatit really takes a desperate
entrepreneur to begin to evenlook at it.
It's very similar with profit.
First, until you're in a lot ofpain, you don't necessarily
look at this.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
But it's after you realize after a while, that boy.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
My sales have not moved, my profit has not moved,
but my life has moved.
Now my children are needing togo to college one day, or we're
wanting to have a vacation oneof these days, or we want to
retire one of these days, butour business is not growing
along with our lifestyle.
What am I going to do so thatthe biggest switch is to really
identify what are the thingsthat, as the entrepreneur, only
(14:56):
you can do, that really move theneedle, and almost always that
involves on strategy and sales.
Not always, but in most cases,the magic that the entrepreneur
brings is in those areas, butthey're at a point in their
lives where they're spending 10hours a week doing that and 60
hours a week doing tasks thatothers could do better, faster
and cheaper and I lived thatlife in all.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
three of my businesses first failed, first
two failed and now this one.
When I first started is I wasdoing and this is not a bad
knock, but I was doing $7 anhour work.
I was posting social mediastuff, I was doing blog posting,
I was doing stuff to get ourname out there, and it's I had
to reinvent myself to learn allthat stuff when I could have
(15:42):
found somebody else to help me.
And I would probably say twoand a half, three years into
this current business I finallyrealized that a strong VA that
has the skill sets that I waslooking for even if it took me
weeks, if months to find theright person, was worth it.
And now I'm working on a secondVA, because my first VA is very
(16:04):
good at video and I'm lookingfor somebody now can do social
and really take us up anothernotch.
And I don't want to do that.
I want to work on the business,not in the business, and
there's people out there thathave better skills than I do.
I know that.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
I'm not offended, no, absolutely.
When I'm honest with myself andmost of my entrepreneurial
clients, there's really two orthree things that they do that
nobody else can do, but which iswhich also accounts for the
trajectory of the business andthe fact that it's survived and
thrive for two, three, four,five years.
But there's only two or threethings.
(16:39):
Really, it isn't 20 things,that isn't even 10.
You see, it's I don't knowbetween two and five things that
the founder does that are trulyimportant and really do move
the needle.
But if we only spend 10% of ourday doing those magical things,
we're never going to make anyprogress.
And it's one of the things Ifound is a lot of people realize
, okay, I have to hire a team,and more and more people are
(17:02):
hiring virtual assistants orexecutive assistants or what
have you, which can be greatleverage.
But what I've heard a lot of myclients say is, yeah, but I
keep firing people that fail orI can't find.
They say I can't find peoplethat really work.
One of the things that we takeour clients through we have a
program called CEO Freedom.
(17:23):
One of the things that we takeour clients through is a process
that will help actually givethem technology so they can
predict with 90% accuracy howfolks are really going to show
up at the job.
Because most of us have suchstrong interview bias, we tend
to hire people we like or peoplewho are like us, and those
people tend to wipe out becausepeople like us aren't good at
(17:45):
the details you just described.
But that's the main thing,because a lot of people know,
yeah, I've got to get a VA, I'vegot to get a team, I've got to
introduce systems or processes,but they also they've tried and
failed a lot of times and mainlyit's because they don't have a
technically model in order tohire the right people for the
right job and then to managethem in a way that's that will
(18:07):
retain them and actually makethem love to come to work every
day.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
It's an SOP, really standard operating procedure.
If you don't have it in place,how are you supposed to bring
somebody in to do that role, tosupport you, one but two, to
excel at the role and then wantto stay, and I failed at that
many times along this path, thisjourney.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
And also to create KPIs or other quantitative
measures.
So the end more importantly, ina way, your partner knows, your
team member knows whetherthey're actually fulfilling the
requirements of the job in ameasurable, indisputable,
quantifiable way.
Unfortunately, as entrepreneurswe have this sort of gut
instinct sometimes that they'renot measuring up or they don't
(18:50):
do it like we would do it, andwe lose confidence in them and
our employees feel that.
But if we can instead reallymeasure are they doing what we
hired them to do, then it reallydoes take away a lot of those
management mistakes.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
It's amazing because you talked about something that
I've focused on a lot and I'vestruggled with was hiring people
that are different than you,with different skill sets.
It's a tough struggle out there, but the second person I hired
was opposite of me and totalintrovert not an operator,
really was about the numbers,but also had a different type of
(19:28):
background when it came tohousing.
It's amazing, just a wholedifferent mindset of how he sees
the business, the world and howhe approaches our projects.
He's like my yin to my yang,yin-yang type of thing.
But the thing I talk about is,if you surround it you've said
this you surround yourself withpeople that are like you, you're
(19:50):
just going to get the sameresults over and over again
definition of insanity.
But if you start adding, justdropping some of those different
people into your space, watchyour business grow, and we truly
have seen that happen.
But I'm backing up to this longquestion is why are we so
afraid to bring in individualsthat are different than us in
(20:11):
our business?
Speaker 2 (20:12):
I think that part of it is that we don't have the
tools.
Most entrepreneurs don't havethe tools, which is why, in our
CEO freedom program, one of thethings that we bring to the
party is performance projectiontechnology.
In our case, we use predictiveindex, but what it tells you is,
first of all, it helps youcreate a model so that you can
(20:32):
identify, first of all, thethings that you're best at, but
also, most importantly, theplaces where you're weak and the
places where you really need tohelp, and we can create a
online model for what that yanglooks like that's different than
you.
Then we can create a jobdescription out of that.
But, more importantly, we cancreate an online assessment that
(20:52):
the individual can take so thatwe know with 90% accuracy
whether they can actually showup and be that person.
And this is the problem withinterviewing is that most
entrepreneurs are not greatinterviewers.
In fact, most people aren'tgreat interviewers.
So one of the things predictiveindex helps us do is to discern
, with 90% accuracy and, using areally great technology, to
(21:15):
tell us will these peopleactually show up on the job and
perform the way we need them toor not, notwithstanding how they
interview or even what theresume says.
So, mainly, I found thatentrepreneurs know in their
hearts that they just are greatinterviewers, and they've had
failure after failure.
So we try to give them toolsthat will give them confidence
(21:36):
to make decisions with greateraccuracy and projectability.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Without giving away your secret sauce, whatever.
What's predictive index?
It sounds very exotic and verycool, so I have to ask a little
bit.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Sure, sure, check out predictiveindexcom.
Okay, so today it's atechnology that we've used for a
long time and there are anumber of performance projection
instruments that are availabletoday.
The reason we use predictiveindex is that it's been in
business for geez, almost 16years, I think, or no, yeah,
(22:11):
about 60 years.
And the reason that's importantis because they have analyzed
more potential hires and thendone the back end correlative
studies to see how they actuallydid perform or they actually
did get in the job, and that'sthe key.
The correlative studies arewhat gives predictive index the
statistical projectability thatit has, and that's the key to it
(22:33):
.
There are a number of onlineinstruments that are available
today, but what's important isthat in predictive index case,
it's the most statisticallyprojectable one therein.
In fact, they have done northof 50 million assessments.
They've evaluated 50 millionpotential employees and done
(22:54):
over 500 correlative studies inthe back end, which makes it so
much more projectable, and italso means it's EOC compliant.
So the Labor Department willallow you to use tools like this
because they're so accurate tohire and fire people.
But this takes the guessworkout of it, and I think that's
the main thing I found is not toprogram was I.
Just I knew my gut instinct wasterrible.
(23:15):
I could see it in the bat, inthe wrong hire over and over
again, but I didn't see any wayto get out of it.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
So Predictive Index, I'm guessing it sounds like
something that's like the diskmethod.
It's just on steroids, so it'sa little bit more in-depth.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
It's yeah, it's in some way.
Disk probably is a sort of agrandchild of Predictive Index.
Disk is not EEOC compliant.
It's very good, but it's notEEOC compliant because they
don't have enough back-endprojection or projectability and
correlative studies.
So disk is great, but I preferPredictive Index because it is
the most accurate instrument onthe market and when, as a result
(23:55):
, the our clients can hire withgreat confidence.
Predictive Index assessmentsalso give you coaching and
management, like scoutingreports that tell you here's how
you need to coach, like youmentioned, the VA you hire
that's introverted and differentfrom you.
Managing that person is waydifferent than managing somebody
like you or me, where we cantalk about it and you up it up
(24:16):
and pat each other on the back.
That's not going to work withan introvert, and so one of the
things PI gives you and ourclients get as a result is this
is a, a management guidebasically, that tells you step
by step here's how to coach andlead these people, because
they're different than you areand the things that would be
meaningful to you aren't goingto be meaningful to them, and
(24:37):
that's the key.
The whole problem right now ishow do we first of all identify
great talent and recruit them,but, more importantly, how do we
retain them?
So many of my clients complainof a revolving door where they
train people up, they polish uptheir resume and then they're
gone.
So the key really is not justidentifying these rock star
people that are different thanwe are, but then to keep them
(24:59):
over time where they can becomemore and more about, and that's
where most of us fall down.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Oh God, we fall down so many times on that.
But I've got an off, kind ofoff the beaten path question Can
you use predictive index topotentially use it to a
contractor?
When I say a contractor, is itonly?
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Is it not only no, any kind of relationship, any
kind of business relationship,but can help you find it, can
help you choose an attorney oran account.
They'll be a little surprised.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Are you really Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (25:31):
absolutely.
They may not be willing to doit, but it really helps.
It really helps withcommunication, for example.
Most entrepreneurs are goodwith big ideas and big concepts,
but we have trouble landing theplanes.
So most of us do need peoplewho are SOP oriented, detailed
oriented, et cetera.
If that's what you need in anaccountant, an editorial or any
(25:55):
other contractor online that youwould find online at Fiber,
let's say it's a great way tofind out what's going on with
those people, how to work withthem not necessarily manage them
as employer, but how to be agood partner with them.
The other thing that this tooldoes that's really important is,
if you've had enough people, doa PI.
One of the things is that wecan identify people who you've
(26:17):
hired and have failed, who havetaken a PI, and we know what
that template is or what thatmodel is, and we can be sure not
to hire someone who has thatprofile.
By contrast, we can identifyyour rock stars and get a given
role, let's say, editing andonce we know what their PI
profile is, then we can try tohire against that profile, and
(26:39):
so it allows us to clone notreally, but clone people to
understand what their uniqueskills are and to hire them
right on the button.
That gives you so much morehiring confidence on the, and
when you match that with the jobdescription, then your chances
of retaining that person aremuch, much greater.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Wow, I'm going to take a look at that because I
just thought of, because we gothrough realtors a lot.
It's just nothing.
I'm not trying to say badthings, but some have better
work ethic than others and Ineed to find those individuals
because there's someinter-properties.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Absolutely.
There are some realtors thatare way extroverted in their
people but terrible as detail,or maybe are terrible with their
persistence and their sort ofdrive day after day.
But you can definitely do that.
Have your favorite realtor,take a PI assessment and then
you'll know the profile thatworks best for you and for your
(27:37):
company and your culture.
That's one of the mostimportant things about PI is
that it's not, you know, thereisn't just one kind of realtor
that succeeds, but there'sprobably one that does best in
your company and in your cultureand that's what PI can tell you
.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Is the test itself or the platform, is it?
I'm guessing it's like disk youhave to pay per assessment.
Or is there some other route?
Or is it cost prohibitive forsmaller businesses?
Speaker 2 (28:07):
It may be cost prohibitive for some businesses
At least.
If you want, you can leave myemail in the show notes and if
anybody wants to know more aboutit, I'm happy to explain it, or
we could talk offline too.
Yeah, for the average smallbusiness it's probably cost
prohibitive.
It depends on how manyemployees you have and on how
many people you need tointerview and hire a year.
(28:29):
Probably speaking, you needprobably north of 50 a year for
it to be cost effective, butthis is a tool that I can
provide for my clients in a waythat is cost effective.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Interesting.
I love that.
I'll have to check it out andwe'll talk offline and go
through.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
I'd love to.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
That would be great.
So a little bit more about whatyou're doing on the coaching
side.
What is your typical clientprofile and where they add in
this whole sphere ofentrepreneurship or small
business owner?
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Sure, we've already described the experience both
you and I have had, where youhave a good idea and buy
willpower and sweat and midnightoil.
You get the business to acouple of million dollars and
you're pinching yourself.
You're happy, but you realizethat on the other hand, you're a
little bit trapped and thatwhat was just miraculous for you
(29:24):
to be able to start a businessis now feels like a little bit
of a trudge.
The clients that I typicallywork with they are entrepreneurs
.
They have small to medium sizedbusinesses and they typically
get stuck someplace in the twoto $10 million range where the
business is good and they'regrateful, but it's not as good
(29:44):
as it could be or maybe as theyoriginally envisioned.
What they especially notice isthat the role they're playing in
it isn't as much fun as it was.
As one of my clients said, it'sbecome adult daycare, if that
resonates for you at all.
You're the sort of person thatI work for, where it's pretty
good but it could be a lotbetter, especially if you find
(30:07):
that either sales or profits ormarket share are starting to
plateau where the trajectorythat used to be straight up has
leveled off.
If you're in that kind of aspot, and especially if you're
getting tired or you've eversaid I feel burned out, then
that's the sort of person I wantto talk to.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
How are your clients?
And you said it earlier we'rein a recession.
I agree with you.
There's so much going on there.
How does that affect yourclient base in future business?
Are more small business ownersreaching out?
Speaker 2 (30:41):
What I'm finding is that there are some businesses
that are interest rate sensitiveand they definitely have some
issues Generally feeling orfinding that the recession is
overblown.
Really, most of my clientstheir industries are okay.
The biggest problem thatthey're having is that they are
unable to find and to retain thepeople that they really need to
(31:04):
propel their business through aplateau.
That's the biggest singleproblem.
I'm in Omaha, nebraska, wherethe unemployment is, I think,
number two in the country atunder 3% it's like 2.4%.
You can't find anybody to doanything.
That's the biggest problem Ifound with most of my clients is
talent.
Number one is finding thepeople.
(31:27):
Number two even worse iskeeping the people.
If you have a revolving door ofemployees that don't work out
generally, I found part of theproblem is that you're not
defining the role in enoughdetail, but you're also not.
The process of recruiting andinterviewing is off.
That's why you're not just notgetting the people, but you're
(31:48):
not retaining the people.
That seems to be the areathat's hurting my clients the
most right now is that they justcan't seem to get enough
traction to grow to the nextlevel.
The other problem that I'mfinding I don't know if your
clients are seeing this in thereal estate business.
You may see this.
I've got clients that aredevelopers and of multi-family
and things like that.
(32:08):
Their biggest problem isinsurance.
Yes, we've got clients in theMidwest who used to be insured
for one big hailstorm a year ormaybe one every two years, but
now they're having three majorhailstorms a year and the
underwriter or the carriers aresaying pass, we're going to get
out of the market.
You see this in Florida andCalifornia, but you also see it
(32:29):
nationwide.
If you're in a business thatrequires you to have insurance
for natural disaster, that'sbecoming prohibitively expensive
.
I've got one multi-familyclient who all state or state
farm.
One of them came to him andsaid okay, we'll give you a
policy, but you have to have a$200,000 per incident deductible
(32:49):
.
That's not insurance, that'sself-insurance.
I don't know what it is.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
No, it's mostly workforces much bigger problem
than anything else right now.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
That's just a lot.
We're going to get right, but Igot to learn to speak English
again.
Guys, we're going to wrap thisup, but I just had one other
question.
Is the workforce aspect inbeing able to get the traction
on the front end and then alsokeeping them on the back end?
Any of that related to that Cword we have going around before
(33:23):
COVID, the pandemic?
Or you just think that's just ahiring issue, or both?
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
What we know from the Gallup people is that an
astonishingly high percentage ofthe American workforce says
that they feel mostly or alwaysburned out.
It's 77%.
One of the biggest things thatwe just have to do and most
people expected it to go downwhen COVID ended if it has ended
(33:53):
last year but it didn't go down.
In fact, it went up.
People are feeling more burnedout now, post COVID if that's a
thing than they were before.
One of the things that we haveto contend with.
We don't necessarily have toagree with it or disagree with
it, but one of the things wehave to contend with as
employers is we've got aworkforce that's very sensitive
to, especially the millennialworkforce, which is most of the
(34:15):
workforce, is very sensitive toand likely so in a lot of cases
to how they are treated, theexperience they have, et cetera.
In a lot of cases, they're notwilling, as my generation was,
to trade time for money at anycost.
One of the things that wereally work with our clients is
(34:36):
to give them managementleadership skills that work with
the current workforce.
Part of that is putting theright people in the right seats
of the bus and being confidentwhen you hire them to do that,
but also to know what works.
Our leadership developmentprogram, for example, is
specifically designed towardmanaging the millennial
workforce and also trainingmillennials to manage other than
(34:58):
millennial, because it's notthe same at all as it used to be
.
It's very important to get thatright.
There are nuances that are.
I find that's maybe the biggestsingle challenge that our
clients are having today.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
Wow, we can unpack so much there.
There's so much going on inthis space and there's so many
things that entrepreneurs gothrough the best way.
Someone can reach out to you orchannel if they want to work
with you.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Go to DoubleDareU, which is DoubleDareus, and
information about everything wetalked about is there.
If you'd like to talk aboutpredictive index, about our CEO
freedom program or anything likethat, you can schedule an
appointment right there on thesite.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
Great.
I will also link it in the shownotes.
I'll put that in there insteadof your email address so they
can reach out to you there.
Probably that, yeah, okay,perfect, sir, thank you for
coming on the show.
It's been an honor and alsoit's just been so great to have
you share your information withthe listeners.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
My pleasure, Ryan.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
But also you've gone through the same thing some of
us have also gone through is thefailure and so forth, and that
humbles us, but it also is a lotof learning experience out of
that and I thank you for sharingthat knowledge and experience
with the listeners my pleasure,thank you, ryan.
All right, thank you.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.