November 8, 2023 • 27 mins
Master the art of aligning money with time and make work optional, as we engage in a compelling conversation with esteemed wealth management practitioner, Chris Clepp. With over two decades of financial expertise under his belt, Chris shares invaluable insights on the connection between financial decisions and business ownership. Listen in as we explore the importance of balancing business and personal life to effectively manage the most valuable asset - time.
In the thrilling world of entrepreneurship, financial roadblocks are inevitable. Join us as we navigate these challenges, stressing the critical factor of clear communication and the role it plays in aligning spouses with financial goals. We delve into the process of evaluating financial situations, setting goals, and the significance of creating a roadmap. Additionally, we underscore the need for professional assistance in estate planning and the crucial role of accountability in this journey.
Venture with us into the realm of financial planning tailored for small business owners. Chris exhaustively explains the process of crafting a financial plan that can make work optional by the age of 60. We also explore the various fee models for financial advisers and guidelines to determine when it's time to engage one. Wrapping up our conversation, we examine the concept of an abundance mentality. Discover why helping others and shifting focus from 'me' to 'we', is integral in creating a financially successful and fulfilling life. Tune in and embark on this enlightening journey to financial freedom in business.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Guys, ryan Dement from Chasing Financial Freedom
podcast.
I hope you guys are having agreat day.
Today on the podcast we haveChris Klepp and this is his
intro, and I like this helpingbusiness owners make work
optional.
He's a financial planner, butwe're going to talk about a lot
of different things and I knowon the podcast we've spoken
about time versus money and Ithink that will be one of the
(00:23):
topics we discuss here withChris.
Chris, welcome to the show.
Thank you for having me, ryan,you're more than welcome.
I know it was a little bit of await, but thank you for coming
on and I'm looking forward tohaving a good conversation about
money versus time, versusbusiness ownership,
entrepreneurship.
I'm sure we can get into a lotof rabbit holes, as I say.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Absolutely as good things come to those who weigh
right.
So I'm ready, Cool.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
So, before we get started, tell the audience a
little bit about who you are andwhat you do, and then we'll get
into some conversations.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Yeah.
So I run a wealth managementpractice called Building Courts
Wealth that serves Gen X and GenY business owners right.
So our abundant wealth process.
It really helps business ownersalign their money with their
goals, just make smart financialdecisions and then proactively
manage the risks and taxes thatcome with business ownership.
Obviously, the clients that Iwork with and business owners in
(01:15):
general, they want less stress,pay less in taxes, want more
time, and we're going to be ableto help them with all three of
those areas.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Where are you at in the world?
I'm in Chicago.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Beautiful, sunny Chicago right.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Yeah, Is it actually?
Is it decent today, or is theweather we started turning bad
for you guys?
Speaker 2 (01:34):
So we had about an inch and a half of snow on
Halloween, but it's going to bein the 60s today.
So that is Chicago weather in anutshell for you Cool.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
That's awesome.
So how long have you been inthis space and what got you into
it?
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Yeah, so I started in the financial services field 23
years ago now.
I started in the insurance sideof things, fell into it by a
lot of interesting fate andcircumstances that put it
together that allowed me to bein that field.
I was an agent, I managed, Iowned, I went back to just
(02:11):
managing for someone else, andwhat I found out, though, was
that you can be the bestinsurance agent in the entire
world, and you still are justviewed as an insurance aid.
It is a highly transactionalfield, and that wasn't really
where I was happiest.
I was happy really making deep,meaningful connections with
people, and being in thefinancial planning space allows
(02:32):
you to be a real agent forchange for the positive.
For many people, there's a lotof anxiety that comes around
money.
People let the tail wag the dogwhen it comes to money and
don't use it as the tool that itcan be to actually get you the
true piece of happiness that youwant in life, and by being able
(02:53):
to work as a holistic financialplanner working with these
clients, we're really able toharness all of the good things
that they already have going inlife and getting it all focused
so that they get everything thatthey deserve from the hard work
that they put in, both in theirfamily and their business lives
.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
So to set a level playing field, a real estate
agent, you need to be licensedon the personal and the
commercial side for what you'redoing.
How many series licenses do youhave?
Speaker 2 (03:23):
So for what we do, because we do about an advisory
field.
So I have my six, my 63 and my65.
I'm finishing up my chart offinancial consultant.
Actually, probably by the timethis podcast actually airs I'll
have that finished up here, asI'm in the last class for that.
But I'm always educating myselfin all the different areas for
(03:45):
what we're doing and a lot of itjust comes with experience that
even within the insurance worldI started working with business
owners for the last two decadesand seeing the challenges and
the concerns that they have andbeing a business owner myself a
lot of times I'm just solvingfor my own issues.
I'm a father of three in mylate 40s trying to figure out
how to balance being a reallygood father, being a really good
(04:07):
spouse and then running asuccessful business and that can
be a heavy lift for people.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
I think we all struggle with that.
You have to balance all of thatout and then making sure that
you can effectively use time toget all those different aspects
of your life put together.
So from the financial piece,let's just dive right in.
We have sole-punners thatlisten.
We have entrepreneurs.
We have small business owners.
We have some larger businessesthat are listening and watching.
(04:36):
Where do we start at If we'restruggling with time and being
able to get that back on ourside?
How do we get back in that laneand take control of that asset?
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Yeah, I think the first step with that is really
getting clear with what are yourvalues, what are your visions,
what are your goals that youhave, what is your relationship
with money in general?
Not all of us come from thesame backgrounds and that can
affect a lot about how it isthat abundance mentality,
(05:08):
scarcity mentality, how it isthat we view that.
And I think a lot of timespeople think financial planning
oh, you're going to tell mewhere I'm going to invest my
money to get the maximum return,and that's certainly a piece of
what we're trying to do.
But we really can't draw acorrect map unless we know what
(05:31):
that destination looks like.
And that begins by gettingclear.
And if you want to be able tocreate a multi-generational
business, which is what I'mtrying to create, I have a
26-year-old, a 5-year-old and a3-year-old Rabbi, my 26-year-old
.
She works for Fideli.
Hopefully she'll come work forme, so I'm working to pass this
on to the next generation.
(05:52):
But some people are trying towork for an exit, some people
want to retire as soon as theycan, some people want to be more
involved in charitable work.
Whatever that is, we want toget real clear what it is you're
trying when you close your eyesand put your head down in that
pillow, what does that look like?
And then we can start fillingin that plan.
And that is going to be talkingabout how do you invest wisely,
(06:13):
how do you do proper cash flowplanning?
What's your risk tolerance?
And then we want to make surethat we're going to start
managing some risk around all ofthat, making sure that we keep
you off the landmines, because alot of what we do is to more
about keeping you off thelandmines than trying to
maximize those returns always,because there's always a math
(06:34):
perfect answer or a math optimalanswer.
But you don't have to make allof your answers based on perfect
math.
You just have to make a bunchof reasonable decisions.
And a lot of what we do is keepyou off the landmines, and what
happens a lot of times is thatwhen you're married, you keep
kids or just run in the business, you can be up to your eyes and
everything that you need to do,and you take your eye off of
(06:56):
some of the things that arenecessary to prepare you for
success to take tomorrow and faroff in the future, and it's my
job to work with that.
And then, obviously, thebusiness owners are dealing with
a lot of differentprofessionals.
So if you think about running abusiness, you could be dealing
with a real estate professional.
You may have asset managers, youmay have your lenders, you may
(07:17):
have a CFO, you have youraccountants, you have all of
your attorneys, your estate,your corporate, your IP
attorneys, you have yourinsurance agents, you have your
M&A people.
You have all of these differentprofessionals that are working.
So, in addition to having to runthe business, in addition to
having all of those familyduties, then you also need
(07:37):
someone that's going to be ableto start having these
conversations and making surethat all these other really
talented professionals that youhave on your team are all
working and pushing you in thatsame direction.
And having a really qualifiedfinancial professional gives you
a partner there that speaks allthese different languages and
can help making sure that youraccount is talking to your
(08:00):
estate planning attorney, istalking to this other
professional and making surethey're all pointing in the
direction so that you can haveautonomy over your time and have
the highest and best use ofthat which is again being more
present today, for whatever isimportant for you be that family
, be that charity, be that cause, be that the business.
Whatever is the highest andbest use of your time, you can
(08:20):
focus on that and you can havesomeone else that is a partner
with you, helping you give backmore of your most valuable asset
, which is your time.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Those are all.
It's great, but that's what weneed it.
I guess.
The first question I'm goingall the way back to the
beginning.
When you decide to startworking with a client, how often
do you have to really startfrom the beginning with them
about vision and purpose and soforth, or do they come pretty
much prepared, ready to go?
Speaker 2 (08:50):
I would say that a lot of our the majority of our
clients need help with thatright.
When they come to us they areat this point of where they
realize they have enoughcomplexity to start working with
a professional and they needsome help.
They can't just do itthemselves.
They are best served workingwith someone else to be able to
(09:10):
do that.
But very rarely have theymapped out at long term planning
.
That's not to say that you onlyhave to think about if you're a
40-year-old business owner.
You only have to think aboutwhat it is like when you're 65,
because I'm much more concernedabout funding my two younger
children's college educationright now and trying to get out
of my business.
(09:32):
We work with that short term,but a lot of times you'd be
surprised that when you sit downwith a married couple they may
not always be 100% on track witheven I'm going to pay for all
of my kids' college education.
I'm going to pay for some of mykids' college education.
We need to get real clear.
We know I know from experiencea lot of times when you have an
entrepreneur and a spouse Mary'srunning a successful business,
(09:56):
bob may not have that sameentrepreneurial mindset.
Part of what we're trying to dois bridge the gap and make sure
that you might have the risk oftaking entrepreneur, but that,
at the same time, that thenon-entrepreneur feels safe and
protected and taken care of andtheir views are being managed
(10:17):
when a lot of their net worthends up being in this business.
We're trying to work throughthat as well.
A lot of times they don't have,they're not super clear.
Before we can really starttaking steps forward, we again
have to make sure that we knowthe destination we're working
towards.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Sounds like you've also got to be somewhat of a
counselor in that process.
That's got to be somewhatdifficult to be able to bridge
that gap, but that isall-encompassing One of the
things.
God, who was I talking about?
I can't remember who I wastalking to about this, but we
were talking about when you havea spouse, a spouse is starting
a business.
As entrepreneurs, the divorcerate is like less than 10%.
(10:59):
But then when you have onespouse that starts an entity and
the other spouse is notinvolved, I think it grows by
anywhere about six or seven foldfor the divorce rate.
How often are you having to gothrough that type of process
with a client when things goawry?
No, I don't have a hard time.
I don't know if I should answer.
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
I think that money is one of the largest problems
that you have in any marriage,right, it is not having proper
communication.
So, ideally, the conversationswe're having are minimizing that
for us and, admittedly, by thetime a client is working with a
financial advisor, theytypically have some sort of
(11:44):
stability and hopefully we'rekeeping them off of the rocks as
we go through here.
So not necessarily dealing witha ton of that quite honestly,
but that is true, like when youtalk about being a counselor,
right?
So all of this revolves aroundtheir personal finances and I
always say it's much morepersonal than finance and that's
(12:05):
what people need to understandwhen we're having these
conversations.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
So once you start helping the entrepreneur or the
small business owner with thatvision and getting that through
and putting in writing andgetting that, if you want to
call it a flow chart puttogether what would be the next
steps that you would help Johnnybusiness owner with.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Yeah, so once we get clear right, then we're going to
start taking the, we're reallygoing to start putting together
all of the instruments that theymay have going on in their life
, right, and they may have someinsurance policies, they may
have an old 401k or an IRA orsome other investments or real
estate or some of these thingsin addition to the business,
(12:51):
right.
And so we're going to gatherall of that information in and
then we're going to assess that,we're going to get really clear
on the details of that and thenwe're going to the next real
step is educating the clients.
And so some clients are verygranular and want to get very in
the weeds and understandingthose things, and we want to
make sure that they have enoughinformation to do that.
(13:13):
Quite honestly, more of thebusiness, more of the clients
that we deal with, they tend tobe their CEOs of the business.
They want to be CEOs of theirpersonal life, and what we want
to do is we want to provide themenough information so that they
feel like they, they are goodto make a final decision.
We'll go this is what you have.
If you want to do X, y and Z,this is what we recommend.
This is why we recommend it.
(13:34):
And if they have more questions, obviously we want to answer
those.
But we want to give them enoughinformation to empower them to
go yes, do this and a lot.
And so then, once we begineducating, they make some
decisions.
We're going to beginimplementing those plans and I
would tell you that youtypically cannot snap your
fingers overnight to geteverything done that you want to
(13:55):
do.
It is a process.
The value is not in the actualfinancial plan, it's in the,
it's in the planning process and, typically, the implementation
stage.
You're going to have an initialimplementation stage.
It could be three or six months, where we get a lot of stuff
done upfront, there's a lowhanging fruit, and then we'll
begin turning this giant shipthat you have that is your
financial life, and it couldtake three to five years to do
(14:18):
everything that we have on theinitial punch list to do right.
And we're going to create atimeline of what makes sense for
that, because they still haveto run their business and they
still have to be great parentsand great spouses and do all the
other things that's importantto them.
They can't drop all thosethings for them to do the to go
get the estate plan done and thebusiness continuation and
everything else that we need.
(14:38):
That we identify upfront and sowe're going to create a
priority list.
We're going to triage that andthen begin to assist them to get
that done, either through theirown professionals or guiding
them to qualified professionalsthat can help them get the
estate plan done.
So while we understand Iunderstand estate plans, I'm not
a turn.
I'm tax.
While I'm tax aware, I'm nottheir CPA right.
(15:00):
So we have to work as part ofthis team to get all of these
things done on their behalf anda lot of it's having some
accountability to someone thatthey're going to do it right.
So they said, hey, this is whatwe want to do, and a lot of
business owners find a lot ofvalue in coming back to it and
going, oh yeah, I said I wasgoing to do this, I didn't do
this.
Let's make sure that we you knowlike we get it done someone
(15:22):
that's going to hold themaccountable, because, as CEO of
the company, a lot of timespeople nobody's holding them
accountable except themselvesaround the house, you know, then
nobody's holding necessarilyholding them accountable to get
that estate plan done.
And that accountability piece Ithink is a widely overlooked
value of having a good financialadvisor.
Now, certainly there are somepeople out there that go I'm
(15:44):
going to do these 10 things.
They get those 10 things done.
Bless those who can just doeverything that they want to do
whenever they want to do it anddon't need a little push every
now and again.
But that push can be superhelpful for someone who's as
busy as someone running abusiness.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
So how do you balance the 30,000 foot view as a CEO
and then the intimate piece ofbeing part of their personal
life?
Because I think there's.
You said that some of them arelooking for that 30,000 foot
view or the CEO level view.
But when it comes to yourfinancial and this is just me
personally, so I can be wrongI'm okay, but when it comes to
(16:19):
your financial life and being,do you think that there should
be some type of intimate touchother than just a 30,000 foot
view?
Say, okay, that looks great,let's go.
I want to at least see some ofthe details to get me what got
us there, but it sounds likethere's more and more people
that are not wanting to do that.
Am I right?
Speaker 2 (16:39):
So if you're talking with someone that at the end of
the day they tell me that I wantto be able to walk away from my
business and make work optionalat 60.
I'd say that way we talk.
I want to be able to make workoptional at 60.
I want to be able to put my twokids through college, I want to
be able to donate to charity, Iwant to be able to buy that
(17:00):
vacation house in Hilton Head,whatever.
All those pieces that they'vetold me are important to them.
If they just know that they'reon track to do that with
everything that they're doingand we're handling the lifting,
that we've made sure they havethe insurance policies and the
investment allocations properlyand they're putting the right
(17:20):
type of money into the right.
They've set up the rightretirement plan through their
business and they'recontributing the right amount of
money and they have the rightbenefit plan and they have the
right estate plan, the rightlegal documents.
Behind all that, a lot of themjust want to know that they're
taken care of and that they canget what they want.
And so we review that, we takethem through our planning
(17:42):
software and go you're on track.
What we need to do to get you ontrack is X, y and Z, and then
and it doesn't happen initially,but over one, three, five years
of working together there's alevel of trust that is
established so that again, theydon't have to think about oh, is
(18:04):
my investment allocationexactly right?
They just know that Chris hastaken care of that for them and
that they're on track and we'vedone everything.
We're doing everything that wecan, and it's a lot.
It's a big conversation aboutmaking sure that the dream today
is still the dream that theyhad three, four years ago when
we talked about it.
Right, and something that we'vestarted working on more is
(18:28):
trying to do more outside of ourreview meetings.
That is, the more granulardetail walk them through a
portfolio review, stuff likethat, and then making sure that
our meetings are more focused onthe big picture stuff and
making and helping them get evenmore clear or make more
adjustments as they get older.
Because I know, if you wouldask me, today versus six years
(18:52):
ago, my goals are different thanthe even five, six years ago
and we're continually changingand we have to continually
change our map, accord.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
So another question is I'm a small business owner,
me somebody.
I'm just using an example.
When do we really sit down andstart engaging with somebody
like yourself to help us on allthese different aspects of our I
would call it personal ourwhole life, it's all
encompassing.
Is there a specific point weshould look at or start
(19:25):
considering?
I know sooner is better thanlater, but some entrepreneurs in
the beginning two, three yearsfirst, several years are
struggling financially.
So can they one afford beingable to work with somebody like
yourself, but two can they not.
Are they risking their businessby not working with you?
So that's a fine line that webalance.
(19:46):
But what would be a good entrypoint for somebody like yourself
?
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Yeah, and so I think that at least speaks a bit to
the changing dynamic of what myprofession looks like and the
different fee models.
We've changed our.
I've personally changed my feemodel to better align with
business owners.
That may just have a lot of thebusiness owners I work with.
They're sitting 90, 95% oftheir net worth is sitting in
that business.
The traditional financialadvisor, where we charge you a
(20:12):
percentage of assets undermanagement but you only have
$100,000 to manage, doesn't workfor a lot of those financial
advisors and but I think thatthere's enough complexity a lot
of times in those businessowners that they could need some
help right For me there's a lotof.
I love just talking to businessowners.
This is not just a profession,this is a calling for me and if
(20:33):
their, if their lives are so, sosimple to just be able to say,
hey, do A, b and C, I will justtell them you can think about
doing A, b and C, consider thesethings, and then, once you've
gotten to to this point ofcomplexity, then come back and
then it makes sense to to workwith.
I don't know that there'snecessarily a crossing point
when you realize that there arethings you feel like there are
(20:54):
things that you should be doing.
You just don't have the time oryou just don't have the
willingness to go do it Is, forexample, I could go do my own
taxes, right?
It's not like there's not somemagic book that CPAs have.
The fact of the matter is,though, like I'm best used, the
highest and best use of my timeis hiring a CPA to do.
I'm a big believer in trying toget and getting really clear on
(21:17):
what it is that makes me happyin my highest proficiency, and
then hiring people to do therest of it, understanding that
not everybody is there, right?
If you're at that point whereyou're like I'm not sure I'm
going to make it through thenext six months, then working
with a financial advisor maybedoesn't make the most sense.
Right, because you need todevote all of your efforts
towards getting that business.
(21:37):
But if you've gotten to thepoint where you're past oh my
God, am I going to make that?
Am I going to make payroll thenext six months, or I'm going to
have a going concern over thenext six months.
Once you've gotten past thatpoint, it's a good time to start
talking with a financialadvisor, and if you're talking
with a good one.
They will if you're not theright size for them.
They have several referralsthat they can go.
(22:00):
Hey, do this Some people mightdo well with.
Just like a coaching programinitially right versus financial
, before engaging a fullfinancial advisor.
And so there are coaches that Ican point them towards.
Hey, this might make sense foryou now, until you get to get to
this certain complexity, andthen I also have a certain
portion of my business where, ifI just find someone I just
(22:22):
really want to work with anddoesn't my model, we'll figure
it.
We'll figure it out justbecause I think I'm excited
about working with Because, atthe end of the day, I want to
make the highest investment useof my time I just want to get
excited about the people that Iwork with.
I'm fortunate in that everyperson that I work with you know
really raises my energy levelwhen I get it.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
That's awesome because you can truly see that
it's a calling for you and youwant to make sure small business
owners, entrepreneurs, arebeing taken care of and planning
.
There's not a lot of peoplethat do that, and I'm not just
talking about in your space,it's just a lot of people don't
find that calling, wrapping itback to the beginning and then
(23:03):
we'll land this.
But I know you were ininsurance and you found your way
into the space, but what trulydrew you in as a calling?
I mean, what got you there?
Was there an event or somethingthat happened that drew you
into the space?
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Quite honestly.
I ran I was partially ran ininsurance brokerage and so it
happened to be that our leadsystem was generated through
what are called mortgage leads.
So if you closed the market wecan talk to them about.
Did they want to buy lifeinsurance to cover that mortgage
?
And then, as the greatfinancial crisis hit in 08 and
that caused a lot of problemsfor that sort of lead generation
(23:39):
and that whole piece, I hadmade good money but I didn't do
any personal finance plan.
I didn't have a financialplanner working with me at that
point and I came out of that inreally bad shape.
It's understanding that thebusiness owners get so engrossed
in trying to run that businessthat they think that the faucet
will never dry up and it couldand other things could happen,
(24:01):
whether it's death, disability,partnership breakups, all these
different things.
And so, again, for me it's likeI like dealing, I like helping
people, and so you can helppeople.
I think much more fully in thefinancial planning area.
Having made some bad decisionsin my earlier life, I also
understand that.
So, again, I don't come from awealthy family.
(24:23):
Like I've gone up and down,like I understand how my money
scripts growing up messed me upwhen I was earlier not
identifying that.
So really what we're justtrying to do is help clients
solve for a lot of these blindspots that it's easy for us to
have or to ignore because thingsare going so well in here that
we compartmentalize those otherthings and somebody needs to be
(24:46):
looking over these things overhere.
We can't just push them in thecloset forever.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Yeah, putting your head in the sand is not probably
the best thing to do in life.
And then, just overall, are youcurrently taking any clients on
at this point in time?
Speaker 2 (25:01):
I am taking clients on, and the Zoom world has
allowed me, so I work withclients all over the country.
There is no limitation on whereor whom.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Okay.
Is there a particular placeyou'd like people to reach out
to if they're interested inworking with you?
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Yeah, they can go directly to my website,
buildingtowardswealthcom, up inthe right hand link.
You can book a call with medirectly.
You can also read some of myblogs and videos on there to see
whether or not there's a goodfeel for some partnership there.
Right there List of the type ofpeople that we're looking to
work with those Gen X, gen Ybusiness owners that want to
(25:40):
have more control, more autonomyover their time.
People that are in abundancementality Like we want to be
able to help those people andthey just want to be able to
again be more present in what'sreally important.
Money is just a tool for us toget what it is that we really
want out of life.
It should not be the solereason, and understanding what
(26:02):
is enough and how to get toenough is, I think, super
valuable for anybody in thislife.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
But also being able to take that money and have that
enough and be able to helpothers through that and know
that good deeds are alwaysreplaced with another great
blessing or a deed that comesback to you.
I'm not saying to do it becauseof that, but it truly does the
more you can give.
I feel better when I give morethan I take it just I guess
maybe that's just a humanreaction for me or whatever.
(26:32):
But yeah, that's a beautifulthing to get there where you
have an abundance and itoverflows to help others.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Absolutely.
I think if we think more aboutwe in this world and a little
less about me, we're all goingto be better off.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Yes, sir, thank you for coming on.
It's been a great conversation.
I will put in the show notesthe link to your website so
people can get ahold of you.
It's been a great conversationand thank you for sharing some
insight because a lot of peopleare probably not.
Probably they are looking for afinancial advisor like yourself
.
That is a calling.
It's just not a lot offinancial advisors put it out
(27:08):
there like what you're doing.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Thanks for having me on here.
It was a pleasure.
You're welcome.
Guys, ryan Dement from Chasing Financial Freedom
podcast.
I hope you guys are having agreat day.
Today on the podcast we haveChris Klepp and this is his
intro, and I like this helpingbusiness owners make work
optional.
He's a financial planner, butwe're going to talk about a lot
of different things and I knowon the podcast we've spoken
about time versus money and Ithink that will be one of the
(00:23):
topics we discuss here withChris.
Chris, welcome to the show.
Thank you for having me, ryan,you're more than welcome.
I know it was a little bit of await, but thank you for coming
on and I'm looking forward tohaving a good conversation about
money versus time, versusbusiness ownership,
entrepreneurship.
I'm sure we can get into a lotof rabbit holes, as I say.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Absolutely as good things come to those who weigh
right.
So I'm ready, Cool.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
So, before we get started, tell the audience a
little bit about who you are andwhat you do, and then we'll get
into some conversations.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Yeah.
So I run a wealth managementpractice called Building Courts
Wealth that serves Gen X and GenY business owners right.
So our abundant wealth process.
It really helps business ownersalign their money with their
goals, just make smart financialdecisions and then proactively
manage the risks and taxes thatcome with business ownership.
Obviously, the clients that Iwork with and business owners in
(01:15):
general, they want less stress,pay less in taxes, want more
time, and we're going to be ableto help them with all three of
those areas.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Where are you at in the world?
I'm in Chicago.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Beautiful, sunny Chicago right.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Yeah, Is it actually?
Is it decent today, or is theweather we started turning bad
for you guys?
Speaker 2 (01:34):
So we had about an inch and a half of snow on
Halloween, but it's going to bein the 60s today.
So that is Chicago weather in anutshell for you Cool.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
That's awesome.
So how long have you been inthis space and what got you into
it?
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Yeah, so I started in the financial services field 23
years ago now.
I started in the insurance sideof things, fell into it by a
lot of interesting fate andcircumstances that put it
together that allowed me to bein that field.
I was an agent, I managed, Iowned, I went back to just
(02:11):
managing for someone else, andwhat I found out, though, was
that you can be the bestinsurance agent in the entire
world, and you still are justviewed as an insurance aid.
It is a highly transactionalfield, and that wasn't really
where I was happiest.
I was happy really making deep,meaningful connections with
people, and being in thefinancial planning space allows
(02:32):
you to be a real agent forchange for the positive.
For many people, there's a lotof anxiety that comes around
money.
People let the tail wag the dogwhen it comes to money and
don't use it as the tool that itcan be to actually get you the
true piece of happiness that youwant in life, and by being able
(02:53):
to work as a holistic financialplanner working with these
clients, we're really able toharness all of the good things
that they already have going inlife and getting it all focused
so that they get everything thatthey deserve from the hard work
that they put in, both in theirfamily and their business lives
.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
So to set a level playing field, a real estate
agent, you need to be licensedon the personal and the
commercial side for what you'redoing.
How many series licenses do youhave?
Speaker 2 (03:23):
So for what we do, because we do about an advisory
field.
So I have my six, my 63 and my65.
I'm finishing up my chart offinancial consultant.
Actually, probably by the timethis podcast actually airs I'll
have that finished up here, asI'm in the last class for that.
But I'm always educating myselfin all the different areas for
(03:45):
what we're doing and a lot of itjust comes with experience that
even within the insurance worldI started working with business
owners for the last two decadesand seeing the challenges and
the concerns that they have andbeing a business owner myself a
lot of times I'm just solvingfor my own issues.
I'm a father of three in mylate 40s trying to figure out
how to balance being a reallygood father, being a really good
(04:07):
spouse and then running asuccessful business and that can
be a heavy lift for people.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
I think we all struggle with that.
You have to balance all of thatout and then making sure that
you can effectively use time toget all those different aspects
of your life put together.
So from the financial piece,let's just dive right in.
We have sole-punners thatlisten.
We have entrepreneurs.
We have small business owners.
We have some larger businessesthat are listening and watching.
(04:36):
Where do we start at If we'restruggling with time and being
able to get that back on ourside?
How do we get back in that laneand take control of that asset?
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Yeah, I think the first step with that is really
getting clear with what are yourvalues, what are your visions,
what are your goals that youhave, what is your relationship
with money in general?
Not all of us come from thesame backgrounds and that can
affect a lot about how it isthat abundance mentality,
(05:08):
scarcity mentality, how it isthat we view that.
And I think a lot of timespeople think financial planning
oh, you're going to tell mewhere I'm going to invest my
money to get the maximum return,and that's certainly a piece of
what we're trying to do.
But we really can't draw acorrect map unless we know what
(05:31):
that destination looks like.
And that begins by gettingclear.
And if you want to be able tocreate a multi-generational
business, which is what I'mtrying to create, I have a
26-year-old, a 5-year-old and a3-year-old Rabbi, my 26-year-old
.
She works for Fideli.
Hopefully she'll come work forme, so I'm working to pass this
on to the next generation.
(05:52):
But some people are trying towork for an exit, some people
want to retire as soon as theycan, some people want to be more
involved in charitable work.
Whatever that is, we want toget real clear what it is you're
trying when you close your eyesand put your head down in that
pillow, what does that look like?
And then we can start fillingin that plan.
And that is going to be talkingabout how do you invest wisely,
(06:13):
how do you do proper cash flowplanning?
What's your risk tolerance?
And then we want to make surethat we're going to start
managing some risk around all ofthat, making sure that we keep
you off the landmines, because alot of what we do is to more
about keeping you off thelandmines than trying to
maximize those returns always,because there's always a math
(06:34):
perfect answer or a math optimalanswer.
But you don't have to make allof your answers based on perfect
math.
You just have to make a bunchof reasonable decisions.
And a lot of what we do is keepyou off the landmines, and what
happens a lot of times is thatwhen you're married, you keep
kids or just run in the business, you can be up to your eyes and
everything that you need to do,and you take your eye off of
(06:56):
some of the things that arenecessary to prepare you for
success to take tomorrow and faroff in the future, and it's my
job to work with that.
And then, obviously, thebusiness owners are dealing with
a lot of differentprofessionals.
So if you think about running abusiness, you could be dealing
with a real estate professional.
You may have asset managers, youmay have your lenders, you may
(07:17):
have a CFO, you have youraccountants, you have all of
your attorneys, your estate,your corporate, your IP
attorneys, you have yourinsurance agents, you have your
M&A people.
You have all of these differentprofessionals that are working.
So, in addition to having to runthe business, in addition to
having all of those familyduties, then you also need
(07:37):
someone that's going to be ableto start having these
conversations and making surethat all these other really
talented professionals that youhave on your team are all
working and pushing you in thatsame direction.
And having a really qualifiedfinancial professional gives you
a partner there that speaks allthese different languages and
can help making sure that youraccount is talking to your
(08:00):
estate planning attorney, istalking to this other
professional and making surethey're all pointing in the
direction so that you can haveautonomy over your time and have
the highest and best use ofthat which is again being more
present today, for whatever isimportant for you be that family
, be that charity, be that cause, be that the business.
Whatever is the highest andbest use of your time, you can
(08:20):
focus on that and you can havesomeone else that is a partner
with you, helping you give backmore of your most valuable asset
, which is your time.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Those are all.
It's great, but that's what weneed it.
I guess.
The first question I'm goingall the way back to the
beginning.
When you decide to startworking with a client, how often
do you have to really startfrom the beginning with them
about vision and purpose and soforth, or do they come pretty
much prepared, ready to go?
Speaker 2 (08:50):
I would say that a lot of our the majority of our
clients need help with thatright.
When they come to us they areat this point of where they
realize they have enoughcomplexity to start working with
a professional and they needsome help.
They can't just do itthemselves.
They are best served workingwith someone else to be able to
(09:10):
do that.
But very rarely have theymapped out at long term planning
.
That's not to say that you onlyhave to think about if you're a
40-year-old business owner.
You only have to think aboutwhat it is like when you're 65,
because I'm much more concernedabout funding my two younger
children's college educationright now and trying to get out
of my business.
(09:32):
We work with that short term,but a lot of times you'd be
surprised that when you sit downwith a married couple they may
not always be 100% on track witheven I'm going to pay for all
of my kids' college education.
I'm going to pay for some of mykids' college education.
We need to get real clear.
We know I know from experiencea lot of times when you have an
entrepreneur and a spouse Mary'srunning a successful business,
(09:56):
bob may not have that sameentrepreneurial mindset.
Part of what we're trying to dois bridge the gap and make sure
that you might have the risk oftaking entrepreneur, but that,
at the same time, that thenon-entrepreneur feels safe and
protected and taken care of andtheir views are being managed
(10:17):
when a lot of their net worthends up being in this business.
We're trying to work throughthat as well.
A lot of times they don't have,they're not super clear.
Before we can really starttaking steps forward, we again
have to make sure that we knowthe destination we're working
towards.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Sounds like you've also got to be somewhat of a
counselor in that process.
That's got to be somewhatdifficult to be able to bridge
that gap, but that isall-encompassing One of the
things.
God, who was I talking about?
I can't remember who I wastalking to about this, but we
were talking about when you havea spouse, a spouse is starting
a business.
As entrepreneurs, the divorcerate is like less than 10%.
(10:59):
But then when you have onespouse that starts an entity and
the other spouse is notinvolved, I think it grows by
anywhere about six or seven foldfor the divorce rate.
How often are you having to gothrough that type of process
with a client when things goawry?
No, I don't have a hard time.
I don't know if I should answer.
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
I think that money is one of the largest problems
that you have in any marriage,right, it is not having proper
communication.
So, ideally, the conversationswe're having are minimizing that
for us and, admittedly, by thetime a client is working with a
financial advisor, theytypically have some sort of
(11:44):
stability and hopefully we'rekeeping them off of the rocks as
we go through here.
So not necessarily dealing witha ton of that quite honestly,
but that is true, like when youtalk about being a counselor,
right?
So all of this revolves aroundtheir personal finances and I
always say it's much morepersonal than finance and that's
(12:05):
what people need to understandwhen we're having these
conversations.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
So once you start helping the entrepreneur or the
small business owner with thatvision and getting that through
and putting in writing andgetting that, if you want to
call it a flow chart puttogether what would be the next
steps that you would help Johnnybusiness owner with.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Yeah, so once we get clear right, then we're going to
start taking the, we're reallygoing to start putting together
all of the instruments that theymay have going on in their life
, right, and they may have someinsurance policies, they may
have an old 401k or an IRA orsome other investments or real
estate or some of these thingsin addition to the business,
(12:51):
right.
And so we're going to gatherall of that information in and
then we're going to assess that,we're going to get really clear
on the details of that and thenwe're going to the next real
step is educating the clients.
And so some clients are verygranular and want to get very in
the weeds and understandingthose things, and we want to
make sure that they have enoughinformation to do that.
(13:13):
Quite honestly, more of thebusiness, more of the clients
that we deal with, they tend tobe their CEOs of the business.
They want to be CEOs of theirpersonal life, and what we want
to do is we want to provide themenough information so that they
feel like they, they are goodto make a final decision.
We'll go this is what you have.
If you want to do X, y and Z,this is what we recommend.
This is why we recommend it.
(13:34):
And if they have more questions, obviously we want to answer
those.
But we want to give them enoughinformation to empower them to
go yes, do this and a lot.
And so then, once we begineducating, they make some
decisions.
We're going to beginimplementing those plans and I
would tell you that youtypically cannot snap your
fingers overnight to geteverything done that you want to
(13:55):
do.
It is a process.
The value is not in the actualfinancial plan, it's in the,
it's in the planning process and, typically, the implementation
stage.
You're going to have an initialimplementation stage.
It could be three or six months, where we get a lot of stuff
done upfront, there's a lowhanging fruit, and then we'll
begin turning this giant shipthat you have that is your
financial life, and it couldtake three to five years to do
(14:18):
everything that we have on theinitial punch list to do right.
And we're going to create atimeline of what makes sense for
that, because they still haveto run their business and they
still have to be great parentsand great spouses and do all the
other things that's importantto them.
They can't drop all thosethings for them to do the to go
get the estate plan done and thebusiness continuation and
everything else that we need.
(14:38):
That we identify upfront and sowe're going to create a
priority list.
We're going to triage that andthen begin to assist them to get
that done, either through theirown professionals or guiding
them to qualified professionalsthat can help them get the
estate plan done.
So while we understand Iunderstand estate plans, I'm not
a turn.
I'm tax.
While I'm tax aware, I'm nottheir CPA right.
(15:00):
So we have to work as part ofthis team to get all of these
things done on their behalf anda lot of it's having some
accountability to someone thatthey're going to do it right.
So they said, hey, this is whatwe want to do, and a lot of
business owners find a lot ofvalue in coming back to it and
going, oh yeah, I said I wasgoing to do this, I didn't do
this.
Let's make sure that we you knowlike we get it done someone
(15:22):
that's going to hold themaccountable, because, as CEO of
the company, a lot of timespeople nobody's holding them
accountable except themselvesaround the house, you know, then
nobody's holding necessarilyholding them accountable to get
that estate plan done.
And that accountability piece Ithink is a widely overlooked
value of having a good financialadvisor.
Now, certainly there are somepeople out there that go I'm
(15:44):
going to do these 10 things.
They get those 10 things done.
Bless those who can just doeverything that they want to do
whenever they want to do it anddon't need a little push every
now and again.
But that push can be superhelpful for someone who's as
busy as someone running abusiness.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
So how do you balance the 30,000 foot view as a CEO
and then the intimate piece ofbeing part of their personal
life?
Because I think there's.
You said that some of them arelooking for that 30,000 foot
view or the CEO level view.
But when it comes to yourfinancial and this is just me
personally, so I can be wrongI'm okay, but when it comes to
(16:19):
your financial life and being,do you think that there should
be some type of intimate touchother than just a 30,000 foot
view?
Say, okay, that looks great,let's go.
I want to at least see some ofthe details to get me what got
us there, but it sounds likethere's more and more people
that are not wanting to do that.
Am I right?
Speaker 2 (16:39):
So if you're talking with someone that at the end of
the day they tell me that I wantto be able to walk away from my
business and make work optionalat 60.
I'd say that way we talk.
I want to be able to make workoptional at 60.
I want to be able to put my twokids through college, I want to
be able to donate to charity, Iwant to be able to buy that
(17:00):
vacation house in Hilton Head,whatever.
All those pieces that they'vetold me are important to them.
If they just know that they'reon track to do that with
everything that they're doingand we're handling the lifting,
that we've made sure they havethe insurance policies and the
investment allocations properlyand they're putting the right
(17:20):
type of money into the right.
They've set up the rightretirement plan through their
business and they'recontributing the right amount of
money and they have the rightbenefit plan and they have the
right estate plan, the rightlegal documents.
Behind all that, a lot of themjust want to know that they're
taken care of and that they canget what they want.
And so we review that, we takethem through our planning
(17:42):
software and go you're on track.
What we need to do to get you ontrack is X, y and Z, and then
and it doesn't happen initially,but over one, three, five years
of working together there's alevel of trust that is
established so that again, theydon't have to think about oh, is
(18:04):
my investment allocationexactly right?
They just know that Chris hastaken care of that for them and
that they're on track and we'vedone everything.
We're doing everything that wecan, and it's a lot.
It's a big conversation aboutmaking sure that the dream today
is still the dream that theyhad three, four years ago when
we talked about it.
Right, and something that we'vestarted working on more is
(18:28):
trying to do more outside of ourreview meetings.
That is, the more granulardetail walk them through a
portfolio review, stuff likethat, and then making sure that
our meetings are more focused onthe big picture stuff and
making and helping them get evenmore clear or make more
adjustments as they get older.
Because I know, if you wouldask me, today versus six years
(18:52):
ago, my goals are different thanthe even five, six years ago
and we're continually changingand we have to continually
change our map, accord.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
So another question is I'm a small business owner,
me somebody.
I'm just using an example.
When do we really sit down andstart engaging with somebody
like yourself to help us on allthese different aspects of our I
would call it personal ourwhole life, it's all
encompassing.
Is there a specific point weshould look at or start
(19:25):
considering?
I know sooner is better thanlater, but some entrepreneurs in
the beginning two, three yearsfirst, several years are
struggling financially.
So can they one afford beingable to work with somebody like
yourself, but two can they not.
Are they risking their businessby not working with you?
So that's a fine line that webalance.
(19:46):
But what would be a good entrypoint for somebody like yourself
?
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Yeah, and so I think that at least speaks a bit to
the changing dynamic of what myprofession looks like and the
different fee models.
We've changed our.
I've personally changed my feemodel to better align with
business owners.
That may just have a lot of thebusiness owners I work with.
They're sitting 90, 95% oftheir net worth is sitting in
that business.
The traditional financialadvisor, where we charge you a
(20:12):
percentage of assets undermanagement but you only have
$100,000 to manage, doesn't workfor a lot of those financial
advisors and but I think thatthere's enough complexity a lot
of times in those businessowners that they could need some
help right For me there's a lotof.
I love just talking to businessowners.
This is not just a profession,this is a calling for me and if
(20:33):
their, if their lives are so, sosimple to just be able to say,
hey, do A, b and C, I will justtell them you can think about
doing A, b and C, consider thesethings, and then, once you've
gotten to to this point ofcomplexity, then come back and
then it makes sense to to workwith.
I don't know that there'snecessarily a crossing point
when you realize that there arethings you feel like there are
(20:54):
things that you should be doing.
You just don't have the time oryou just don't have the
willingness to go do it Is, forexample, I could go do my own
taxes, right?
It's not like there's not somemagic book that CPAs have.
The fact of the matter is,though, like I'm best used, the
highest and best use of my timeis hiring a CPA to do.
I'm a big believer in trying toget and getting really clear on
(21:17):
what it is that makes me happyin my highest proficiency, and
then hiring people to do therest of it, understanding that
not everybody is there, right?
If you're at that point whereyou're like I'm not sure I'm
going to make it through thenext six months, then working
with a financial advisor maybedoesn't make the most sense.
Right, because you need todevote all of your efforts
towards getting that business.
(21:37):
But if you've gotten to thepoint where you're past oh my
God, am I going to make that?
Am I going to make payroll thenext six months, or I'm going to
have a going concern over thenext six months.
Once you've gotten past thatpoint, it's a good time to start
talking with a financialadvisor, and if you're talking
with a good one.
They will if you're not theright size for them.
They have several referralsthat they can go.
(22:00):
Hey, do this Some people mightdo well with.
Just like a coaching programinitially right versus financial
, before engaging a fullfinancial advisor.
And so there are coaches that Ican point them towards.
Hey, this might make sense foryou now, until you get to get to
this certain complexity, andthen I also have a certain
portion of my business where, ifI just find someone I just
(22:22):
really want to work with anddoesn't my model, we'll figure
it.
We'll figure it out justbecause I think I'm excited
about working with Because, atthe end of the day, I want to
make the highest investment useof my time I just want to get
excited about the people that Iwork with.
I'm fortunate in that everyperson that I work with you know
really raises my energy levelwhen I get it.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
That's awesome because you can truly see that
it's a calling for you and youwant to make sure small business
owners, entrepreneurs, arebeing taken care of and planning
.
There's not a lot of peoplethat do that, and I'm not just
talking about in your space,it's just a lot of people don't
find that calling, wrapping itback to the beginning and then
(23:03):
we'll land this.
But I know you were ininsurance and you found your way
into the space, but what trulydrew you in as a calling?
I mean, what got you there?
Was there an event or somethingthat happened that drew you
into the space?
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Quite honestly.
I ran I was partially ran ininsurance brokerage and so it
happened to be that our leadsystem was generated through
what are called mortgage leads.
So if you closed the market wecan talk to them about.
Did they want to buy lifeinsurance to cover that mortgage
?
And then, as the greatfinancial crisis hit in 08 and
that caused a lot of problemsfor that sort of lead generation
(23:39):
and that whole piece, I hadmade good money but I didn't do
any personal finance plan.
I didn't have a financialplanner working with me at that
point and I came out of that inreally bad shape.
It's understanding that thebusiness owners get so engrossed
in trying to run that businessthat they think that the faucet
will never dry up and it couldand other things could happen,
(24:01):
whether it's death, disability,partnership breakups, all these
different things.
And so, again, for me it's likeI like dealing, I like helping
people, and so you can helppeople.
I think much more fully in thefinancial planning area.
Having made some bad decisionsin my earlier life, I also
understand that.
So, again, I don't come from awealthy family.
(24:23):
Like I've gone up and down,like I understand how my money
scripts growing up messed me upwhen I was earlier not
identifying that.
So really what we're justtrying to do is help clients
solve for a lot of these blindspots that it's easy for us to
have or to ignore because thingsare going so well in here that
we compartmentalize those otherthings and somebody needs to be
(24:46):
looking over these things overhere.
We can't just push them in thecloset forever.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Yeah, putting your head in the sand is not probably
the best thing to do in life.
And then, just overall, are youcurrently taking any clients on
at this point in time?
Speaker 2 (25:01):
I am taking clients on, and the Zoom world has
allowed me, so I work withclients all over the country.
There is no limitation on whereor whom.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Okay.
Is there a particular placeyou'd like people to reach out
to if they're interested inworking with you?
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Yeah, they can go directly to my website,
buildingtowardswealthcom, up inthe right hand link.
You can book a call with medirectly.
You can also read some of myblogs and videos on there to see
whether or not there's a goodfeel for some partnership there.
Right there List of the type ofpeople that we're looking to
work with those Gen X, gen Ybusiness owners that want to
(25:40):
have more control, more autonomyover their time.
People that are in abundancementality Like we want to be
able to help those people andthey just want to be able to
again be more present in what'sreally important.
Money is just a tool for us toget what it is that we really
want out of life.
It should not be the solereason, and understanding what
(26:02):
is enough and how to get toenough is, I think, super
valuable for anybody in thislife.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
But also being able to take that money and have that
enough and be able to helpothers through that and know
that good deeds are alwaysreplaced with another great
blessing or a deed that comesback to you.
I'm not saying to do it becauseof that, but it truly does the
more you can give.
I feel better when I give morethan I take it just I guess
maybe that's just a humanreaction for me or whatever.
(26:32):
But yeah, that's a beautifulthing to get there where you
have an abundance and itoverflows to help others.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Absolutely.
I think if we think more aboutwe in this world and a little
less about me, we're all goingto be better off.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Yes, sir, thank you for coming on.
It's been a great conversation.
I will put in the show notesthe link to your website so
people can get ahold of you.
It's been a great conversationand thank you for sharing some
insight because a lot of peopleare probably not.
Probably they are looking for afinancial advisor like yourself
.
That is a calling.
It's just not a lot offinancial advisors put it out
(27:08):
there like what you're doing.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Thanks for having me on here.
It was a pleasure.
You're welcome.
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