October 21, 2024 • 73 mins
In this transformative episode, hosts Keith and Mindy welcome special guest Jaret, a pivotal figure in Keith’s journey of self-discovery through plant medicine and shamanism. As Keith takes the reins on the intro, he shares how Jaret has become a crucial part of his "soul squad".
Join the trio as they dive deep into the fascinating world of plant medicine. Jaret recounts his own remarkable journey—from a life steeped in bodybuilding and steroids to a profound awakening catalyzed by his first experience with LSD. The conversation flows effortlessly, exploring the balance between various realms of consciousness, spirituality, and the exciting possibilities that arise when opening up to new experiences.
This episode promises an open, exploratory dialogue about navigating personal transformations and the role of community in spiritual growth. Whether you're curious about plant medicine or simply looking for inspiration on your own journey, this episode of Chasing Thoughts is not to be missed!
Connect with Jaret here 👇
https://www.instagram.com/soulofjaret/
https://www.eventcreate.com/e/yucahuasca?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ihxelowa1Yc
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
What is my next challenge in daring to be human?
(00:10):
How do I connect with life?
How can I let go of my need for fixed answers in favor of aliveness?
How do I live free from the experiences that shaped me?
How can we be the change the world needs right now?
Join us weekly for Stony Conversations about Life.
It is our mission to allow life itself to reveal to us the answers.
(00:38):
Welcome to Chessie Thoughts.
Hey everybody, I am not used to doing the intros because Mindy always does them.
So go back to an older episode and watch Mindy's intro.
(00:59):
But I am doing it today because I have my buddy coming out here, Jared.
Since I started this whole journey of making these changes in my life, I have come across
three people that have become part of a tribe for me.
My friend Danielle and me and Mindy met over TikTok randomly and started Chasing Thoughts
(01:21):
and now my buddy Jared who has been teaching me all about plant medicine, shamanism and
we are going to be taking a trip in December to experience that in person.
My dog is excited about this episode too.
So dude, welcome man.
Thank you.
Thank you guys for having me.
(01:42):
Thank you for the lovely intro.
I am honored to be part of your soul squad, Keith.
This is my first time meeting Mindy and it's very lovely to be here.
Thank you guys for having me.
Yeah, I just want to say I am a fan as well.
Keith and I talked about your videos for a long time before I think you reached out to
(02:03):
you.
But it's really beautiful to see somebody using this new technology and this new way of being,
right?
Influencer, YouTube, social media to bring more consciousness and spirituality to the
world.
And every time I see somebody doing that work, I just want to jump up and down.
That is freaking exciting.
(02:23):
Yeah, thank you.
I appreciate it.
And yeah, it's a crazy, really crazy like realm to try and navigate.
What?
Doing it or making it happen and to the best of my ability.
Yeah.
Well, I know you want to start telling us a little bit about plant medicine and stuff
(02:44):
and Keith has some questions for you.
I have some questions about that too.
Like the balance of how you, you know, go from sort of one world to another and keep
presence.
And so it's going to be a fun exploration today.
Yeah.
Hey, listen, I have no agenda.
Whatever you guys want to get into for your listeners and for yourself, I'm open for it.
(03:05):
Whatever you guys have to throw my way.
Awesome.
Yeah, it's cool too.
Because like we've been talking about with our guests, like trying to just have that open
conversation and just letting everything flow and allow the conversation to take the direction
that dictates.
So this is going to be cool, man.
You're going to be like the best person to do this with for the first time, man.
(03:26):
Amazing.
Do you normally have guests on or is it normally you guys?
So we started just the two of us and then we started having guests and the feeling just
didn't feel quite right to Keith and I because what's exciting for us and I'm sure you'll
understand what I mean when I say this is letting the space itself or consciousness or whatever
(03:51):
this stuff is out here.
We've itself into the conversation and bring wisdom that neither one of us had or our guest,
right?
Like truth arising from people gathered in the presence of truth.
Yes, I love that.
Opening the portal.
Yeah.
And so we stopped having guests because we're like, we're not opening it.
(04:11):
Like we opened the portal with each other, but we're not opening the portal with guests.
Like we got to figure this out a little bit.
So kind of massaging it.
So now we're going back into having guests with this new way of like, okay, we understand
the portal more.
How can we hold space for that portal and really have the kind of conversations that
we want to.
Amazing.
(04:32):
Amazing.
I'm stoked to get into it.
Yeah.
So tell us a little bit about just your journey with plant medicine, your first trip, kind
of how it started for you.
Well, yeah, I'll give you the short rundown.
I am from this little tiny farm town in Ohio and, you know, I had no idea who I was.
(04:54):
I felt invisible.
I didn't resonate with anything or anyone.
So I got into bodybuilding and started using steroids.
And so at 19 years old, I was 240 pounds sticking needles in my chest every day.
You know, that's where I found myself.
(05:15):
And by the grace of God, when I was 20, my friend introduced me to LSD and long story
short, after years of dedicating myself to bodybuilding, my only focus, six meals a day,
spending four hours a day, spending every dime I earned on steroids, took a small dose
(05:40):
of LSD, hung out at Ohio State campus in Columbus, woke and I swear I woke up the next day.
Not only did I never touch steroids again, but I never thought about it.
And I also never went back to the gym.
Like, I literally just did a complete 180 in my life.
And I became a real estate agent and started eating a lot of mushrooms.
(06:06):
And you know, then I discovered Wim Hof and I learned how to meditate and, you know, and
then I learned about grounding, you know, the story goes on.
But that was really my big moment was, was I was a bodybuilder and had a short bleach
blonde hair, big neck and everything.
I had a nose ring and took LSD for the first time and it was just like, oh, fuck.
(06:31):
Like, pretty small dose too, but it changed my entire life.
So yeah, that's super cool.
I love experiences like that when life itself, you know, sort of goes, okay, we're going
this way.
Yeah.
Yeah, thank God, really, thank God and thank God for LSD, you know, like these days, you
(06:59):
know, I'm, I'm working with what I would consider much more alive, potent, powerful
plant spirits like Wachuma, ayahuasca, the mushrooms, right?
LSD is a great tool, but it lacks spirit.
Right.
It lacks that it lack, like there's not necessarily like an entity behind it.
(07:24):
You know, it's like this, it's kind of a blank canvas, which it definitely has its place.
And I love LSD.
Some of the best days of my life were on like one or two tabs of LSD, like, you know, the
best day of your life, right?
But the work I'm doing now, I just, I can't imagine taking it anytime soon, but I don't
(07:49):
advocate against it.
I think it's a phenomenal tool.
So where is that?
Oh, sorry, go ahead, Mindy.
I was just thinking, you know, where you're at right now, what do you currently think
sort of your mission or purpose or job?
Like what are you leaning into in this moment, where your path is?
(08:10):
Well, I don't know how long you guys have been following me, but this year I have produced
significantly less content.
Like the amount of content I've put out on Instagram this year is like what I was putting
out monthly.
And during that time, so I've been, you know, just really going within doing a lot of personal
(08:34):
stuff and really where it's led me is to the point where I now, I've been, all right, to
answer your question, the retreats, bringing people to like enough talking about it, enough
talking about, because when we talk about this stuff, we're just dancing around the truth.
Like you can never actually, like we're, we're lying.
(08:56):
I'm lying.
But like just by talking about this stuff in general, you will never actually hit it.
You'll never actually hit it.
It's something that must be experienced.
So, and I'm coming back into, you know, podcasting and all of that, but really this year for
me has been a lot of inner work, a lot of silence, a lot of cleaning my own heart and
(09:21):
a lot of working with great teachers and very powerful medicines to get me to the point where
I'm able to be useful in these ceremonies and not just sitting over there watching the
shaman do his thing, the poor, I'm actually able to be useful and to help in the ceremony
and play music and do the prayers and, you know, help facilitate people through their
(09:43):
process.
Right.
Like I wouldn't have, I've been wanting to do this for years, but I wouldn't have been
ready.
Like some of this stuff that I mean it, and we can get into it.
Like I, I've been a part of like actual exorcisms, full blown exorcisms where people's neck
and head are literally coming up off the floor and we're releasing spirits and it's very
intense.
Right.
(10:03):
So, these services are necessary for me if I'm going to be doing this work, you know,
so this year has been a huge learning year for me, you know, for the last few years,
I felt like I had a lot to say.
And then this year I've just been like, God, I have nothing to say.
I am just observing and learning and absorbing the teachings from the medicine, from my teachers,
(10:31):
et cetera.
So my, where my heart and energy is, is in these retreats.
I just moved into this house in Ohio, near my family, which is lovely.
I'm looking out at Lake Erie.
It's wonderful.
And between here and Mexico, here and Mexico, that is, that is all I'm doing for the foreseeable
(10:51):
next six months, 12 months, whatever.
That's all I'm focused on right now.
Yeah, that, that journey of going in, I think is like the most terrifying, courageous thing
that I do in my life.
And I think when people hear someone say something like you just did, the whole picture isn't
(11:17):
clear.
Like I imagine that this has been difficult work where you're really hitting your comfort
zone and you're doing things that scare you and you're fearing what you're going to find
in yourself.
Like, can you speak a little bit more to like the difficult parts of choosing to devote
yourself to a season of personal growth?
(11:39):
So what I've found and just a preface for your audience, like I'm not an expert in anything,
not degrade in anything.
This is all just my own experience.
Just want to put that out there.
But what I've found is the situations in our lives are very purposeful.
(12:06):
They're very karmic, right?
And we spend a lot of time running from them, avoiding them, making excuses for them, being
a victim.
And I think really what the internal process is like, there's this like great way of looking
(12:29):
at it.
I love like the only way out is through.
So that's really what it comes down to.
And that's going to look different for every single person, but everybody listening has
certain things in their life that are very triggering for them.
That they don't like whether it's a relationship with a family member or your relationship with
(12:51):
your children or your career or some soul ambition that's been calling you that you've
been shunning away.
It's like leaning into the discomfort in a lot of ways.
And then coming out on the other side, liberated and changed and completed.
(13:13):
But this is something I just put out a podcast with my friend, Evan, the other day.
And something we were talking about was how in our culture in America, we're very confused
on what awakening is.
We have this idea that awakening is all about like, highness and light and love.
(13:35):
And that's a part of it.
But the shaman knows that that's only one part of it, right?
The lower realms, the darkness, there's so much teachings here and there's so much to
be integrated there.
You don't want to feed the darkness, but you must observe your darkness and take note
(13:59):
of what's going on in there.
Because then you're not a whole person.
You're like one half of the yin-yang symbol.
You're just like one half.
And there is no light without the darkness.
So your light can't actually last.
And it can't actually, because everybody who like, like in 2020, you know, like that was
like a period of like, highness, light, love, that's amazing.
(14:24):
But a lot of people take that and then they think that they have, like that that is going
to give them the energy and the power to go heal or help others heal.
And it, you crumble light, you fold like a cheap chair because the light isn't real,
but light isn't real unless the darkness has been integrated first.
So, oh my God, dude, yeah.
(14:45):
You know, like there's no, there's no, there's no, you know, it's like that Carl Jung quote,
like a tree's branches can only reach the heavens if its roots have first reached the
depths of hell.
It's that kind of idea.
It's like your, your, your tree is going to blow over in the first storm.
If those roots aren't fucking deep, you know?
(15:08):
And then once you look at all, it's not as scary as we like fear is more so like fear
of the unknown.
But you know, I, in my experience, like, you know, people watching people like have really
strong medicine and purge and have exorcism and all like, they're like, they're relieved
(15:28):
afterwards.
Like, you know what I mean?
It's not like, it's not like they go through the darkness and they come out on the other
side like in misery.
You're relieved.
It's relieving.
It's, there's liberation in your shit.
So that's what the process has been.
You know, it's just like leaning into all of, all of the shit, all of the shit I was avoiding,
(15:54):
all of the shit that was triggering, like our triggers are our teachers.
Like if it triggers you, there's a reason.
And so just leaning into a lot of that stuff and, you know, taking, yeah.
I think what you're doing is so beautiful.
It's interesting.
So I was a personal trainer at one point.
(16:15):
Okay.
People with their bodies.
And then I started to realize without like the mental emotional component, like this
isn't going anywhere.
So then I got certified as a coach and I worked with people as a coach.
But now I'm kind of at the place where I'm like, even this isn't it.
It's the experience.
It's the depth.
It's the spiritual stuff.
(16:36):
So my own journey has sort of followed this journey of what you're talking about, sort
of chasing what is it that I have to be in relationship with inside of myself and how
do I build that relationship so that I know how to be consciousness and human form on this
planet, right?
(16:57):
And help other people do the same.
And so I think it's so cool what you're doing and how you're preparing yourself first so
that you can be somebody's guide, right?
You're like, okay, we're going to go down the dark tunnel.
Like I'm right here with you and we'll be here on the other side.
And that's important work, especially right now.
(17:19):
I think it's like where we are as humanity and how we're going to involve next or not
evolve.
We will see.
I have hope, but we have a lot of cleaning to do of our own selves, which is why I'm
going, I mean, listen, there's much better ways to make money.
(17:40):
I built this social media management empire.
I could just be doing that.
But the conviction in my heart to do these retreats monthly is just so strong.
And so that's what we're doing.
I'm so stoked you're coming, Keith.
It's gonna be fucking awesome.
So is that gonna be your first one that you're going on, Keith?
Or have you done that before?
(18:01):
Yeah.
Yes.
Me, my first one.
And honestly, like it was sort of, I have like a similar feeling to this is when I joined
the military, you know, like as I was going flying down a fort bending, I was like, what
the hell am I doing?
Like you guys, you guys were personal trainers.
I took, I took the opposite path, you know, like I was, I was like part of the Burger King
(18:22):
fan club, like when I was 19, dude, you know, so or 17.
So I went in this little roly-poly dude and just like, what, what am I doing?
And every once in a while, it'll cross my mind.
Like I'm, I'm going to the Yucatan to work with this Mayan guy who's, who's connected
(18:45):
through time, you know, with shamanism and then also a very educated dude, you know what
I mean?
And, and I'm like, what the hell am I doing?
Like this is not me, dude.
That's why, that's why I was like, I'm private bungalow.
Yep, that's me.
I need that.
Like I got to run and hide every once in a while.
(19:07):
Yeah, fair enough, dude.
I mean, we're going to be doing some deep work, but I mean, as you know and feel you're
in amazing hands, Arturo is a true wizard.
And like, I just love him.
He's one of the most important human beings in my entire life.
Like on my five most like most important people in my life, you know, he's one of them.
(19:29):
And like, I trust him with my life with my, I would leave my family, children with him.
You know, it's that kind of vibe.
Yeah, that's awesome.
Yeah.
And that's that, I mean, that connection.
Can you talk about that connection a little bit?
Like how important that is, right?
Because he comes from like a line of.
So Arturo, so Arturo is not fully indigenous, but he has spent his entire life born and raised
(19:55):
in the Yucatan Peninsula amongst like people who do not even speak English, who like only
speak Mayan, like people who like are born in caves that don't even have a social security
card or anything.
Like, but simultaneously, this is a guy who is a degreed engineer and botanist who speaks
(20:18):
five different languages fluently.
So Arturo is a, I mean, he's an actual, they call him El Mago, the magician.
Like he is an actual wizard.
You know, this guy speaks my ancestry's native tongue that I don't even speak German, you
know, he knows everything about my ancestry that I don't even know about.
(20:40):
And this is a Mexican dude, you know, like he, he's, he's, I can't say enough about
him.
And if anybody here wants a taste of Arturo, he very graciously, he's a very private person,
but he very graciously sat down with me for almost three hours on my podcast recently.
So that's available.
If anybody wants to go listen to.
(21:00):
We have to link in the show notes, because I think that's awesome.
Yeah.
I think my, just my YouTube channel and you can go to the podcast section and you'll see
it.
It's recent.
It was like less than two weeks ago.
And yeah, he gets into everything, the Mayan culture and medicine and just everything in
between history and very, very special, very special individuals.
(21:25):
So if anybody's looking for a very great safe place to come drink really potent medicine,
this is the plot, the spot.
Yeah, and this, and this isn't going to be like we're heading to a resort, you know,
overlooking the ocean.
So after like the ceremony, I can go lay on the beach and work on my tan.
Right.
Yes.
(21:46):
It's going to be a little different.
We've got it.
We've made it.
So it's like just comfortable enough.
You know, like, like these bungalows that you booked, you know, like these bungalows
have AC in them.
I have never, one time in the Yucatan Peninsula have I had AC, you know, so it's, you know,
(22:07):
and they're not overly fancy, but they have, we're going to be, it's a level of comfort
that's like good.
It's, it's, it's not too much.
It's going to test you.
And also you're not going to feel just totally like fucking destroyed either because they're
very integrative retreats.
(22:28):
You know, that was something that Arturo really stressed to me.
He's like, Jettet, we cannot have retreats for consumers.
Like we need to empower them.
We need to empower them.
Like, and so that's why we build because Arturo, now learn to make all his own medicine, all
of his own furniture.
He makes all of his own instruments from scratch with native materials from the land, like,
(22:49):
like harps, drums, guitars, everything, you know, so part of the retreats is we build
these shamanic drums, we go in these caves that have like Mayan hand paintings and cenotes
that are on private land.
The public doesn't have access to these, let alone know about them, but Arturo has spent
his entire life.
I mean, this is a guy who, he takes two weeks out of his life, you know, every here and
(23:12):
there and just goes to all these little tiny Mayan villages and just goes and keeps his
relationship with the Mayan elders and goes and shows his respects and brings them gifts
and buys them beer, you know, and, you know, like, you know, just keeping relationships
with all these Mayan elders.
Because when he's not shamaning, he's a tour guide, like a private tour guide.
(23:33):
And that's how I met him because he, he works with this massive YouTuber, Fearless and Far.
I don't know if you guys have seen him, the bald dude who like hunts baboons in Africa
and shit.
And so I had him on my podcast back in December at his house in Mexico, and he invited me
out into the jungle, which is where I met Arturo.
(23:53):
And like Arturo like works for like, you know, he works with like news, like, like, you know,
TV channels and everything.
Like he's really like the best tour guide in the peninsula easily, right.
And so we just have access to, and not only access, but like the wisdom and knowledge,
he knows, like wherever we go, Keith, he's going to be pointing out every, the plants,
(24:14):
the rock structures, what it's used for, how they use this, why that's there, you know,
just like that kind of vibe, you know, it's, so it's really special.
Yeah.
We don't have to talk about my retreats for too long, but I am excited about it.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Dude, like even like all that, this is the reason why, like I decided like where I'm
(24:36):
going and it was weird too.
Cause like, you know, for, for me, trying to like build my thing now, like, you know,
money is, is very tight, you know, and me and me and Sandy were talking, we set like
a price cap, you know, and it came in just at that.
So when I sat down with Sandy, I told her and she's like, well, you have to, you like,
(24:58):
it's just, it's, it's going to happen, you know, that your wife was so supportive in
that way.
That's amazing.
And you know, like we, I made these retreats as inexpensive as humanly possible.
Like, I mean, you, I see crazy shit, you know, three days for six grand.
(25:18):
And you know, and you're with, you're just with some like dude, you know, and it's like,
so we tried to like really, and you know, our tarot is, Janet, we have to give so much
to these people so much more than they could ever imagine.
We have to just give, give, give.
We have to make it the best week of their life, you know, like that's the kind of energy
of our retreat.
(25:39):
So anybody that I'll send you guys a link, you can link it here or go to my Instagram
bio and, and there'll be more info there.
Yeah.
I want to make the, like, especially like the link for, for like the trips, because I think
this is so important, you know, for people that are in, in this position, looking for
something like that.
Yeah.
(26:00):
I'm curious if you have any plans, like, I know you have a community and stuff, but
as your retreats start getting more popular and you do more and more of them, is there
like an aftercare element or an aftercare community that you're hoping to build as well?
Yes, Arturo, that was one of Arturo's, uh, uh, how would you call it, um, rules.
(26:26):
Yeah.
I think we have, and I agree.
I mean, it's not like I was advocating against that.
That's something that he also was like, we have to take care of people afterwards.
So we're actually planning part two retreats for later next year where we actually take
people into the forest to like survive.
Right.
Like, and it's.
Oh my God, dude.
(26:46):
Yeah, yeah, which is going to be gnarly, but, but outside of that, yeah, I mean, we're going
to be having like telegram group chats and zoom catch ups and things like that.
Like, like I'm already doing that.
Um, like with my, you know, my group that I recently took to Oaxaca to have mushroom
ceremonies with Maria Sabina's grandson Bernardino.
(27:08):
I've already talked to all of those people, you know, like privately to, you know, I'm
just, I'm just here for like whatever.
That's really my role in it.
You know, like these retreats, the essence of them is Arturo.
Like everything Arturo has been working on in silence for the last two decades is what
is being showcased here.
And I, as Arturo's disciple and as a, as a patron of the medicine, you know, my job
(27:36):
is I'm really leaning into like my emotional people management communication skills.
Right.
And my job is to like be here for the people that are coming to do this and in whatever
capacity they need.
So yeah, I mean, there's a lot of aftercare zoom calls, group chats and literally like
obviously you have to set boundaries.
(27:57):
You have to that kind of thing, but pretty much unlimited access to me.
Like if you need me, I'll be there for you.
I can't promise I'll be the jump on the phone with you right away.
But like I'm there for anybody who comes to these retreats that needs me.
I'm there for them.
Beautiful.
Yeah.
How your whole journey impacted like your most personal relationships.
(28:20):
I believe you have a wife, a daughter, your parents, right?
The people closest to you, how have they gone on this journey with you?
Because it's a big journey you're taking.
And that means your people have to sort of come along in some form or see themselves
reflected in something they do like or don't like.
Right?
(28:40):
Yeah.
What's that been for you?
Well, I have the most amazing, we're not like technically married, but I call her my wife.
But Mackenzie is like the most legendary woman ever from the moment we met.
We have been on this journey together.
Like our literally the second or third day of us ever meeting, we took a huge dose of
(29:01):
mushrooms together and like, and from the first day we met, we were waking up in the
morning and doing Wim Hof breath work and getting in cold water.
Like this has been the foundation of our relationship.
We got together back in 2020.
And that's literally been the foundation of our relationship.
(29:22):
So she's been on the whole ride with me, like her and our daughter.
I mean, they've been all over the world with me.
My little two year old was just down in Peru in Wachuma ceremonies.
You know, not drinking Wachuma, but you know, sitting on the Shaman's lap and playing her
Maraca and you know, so my family's just integrated into it, you know, in that regard.
(29:46):
And then, and then I guess as far as like my parents and that kind of thing, I mean,
they don't, I wouldn't say they understand it, but they do respect it.
They, they at first, they did not understand or respect, but as it's grown and, you know,
(30:09):
like as silly as it is, external accomplishments really help the older generation.
Like it validates you in a way, you know, like, you know, like my friend, Mike Corey,
who, you know, he's got this huge YouTube channel, right?
But I'm sure him winning the Emmy and beating Zac Efron and Martha Stewart, even though
(30:35):
that's meaningless and actually nobody gives a fuck.
He gets hundreds of millions of views on YouTube every month and that has made hundreds of
thousands of dollars from YouTube.
It may be millions, I don't know.
I'm sure the Emmy for his like grandparents was like the pinnacle, right?
Even though for him it's like whatever.
(30:56):
And so for me, like when my YouTube channel blew up and all this stuff, like it changed
the dynamic and the fact that I'm, you know, 26 with a family and I've never asked my parents
for money one time, you know, that's, you know, I've been doing all this crazy shit
(31:17):
and never called them like, Hey, like I need help.
Like, so they respect whatever I'm up to.
I don't know.
I don't really know in their mind what it, what they think I'm up to, but they can feel
that they do have respect for the work I do, even though they don't quite know all about
(31:37):
it.
And I'm sure it will, it'll get deeper with them, you know, we'll like, I have visions
of, you know, my dad, you know, having a mushroom ceremony, like it's all in the works.
I'll never force it, but there's a lot of times my parents are young.
They're in their 40s, you know, like we, there's, there's a long road ahead.
(31:58):
I think that's so beautiful the way you said, you know, you don't have to understand somebody.
In fact, a lot of times it's hard to understand somebody else to love them and respect them
and be happy for them.
You know, I think a lot of people get confused about that.
So I love the way that you said that.
And I think with each generation, you hope that your kid is more evolved, right?
(32:23):
Hopefully someday your daughter is going to be challenging you in ways that you can't
understand her and you're being pushed past your comfort zone, because that, that's how
we're evolving as a species is becoming more and more conscious these generations, right?
So that means your parents did a good job with you, that you're challenging them and
their level of consciousness.
Definitely.
(32:44):
And yeah, I have, I have, I was raised by amazing people, you know, like, are we, are
they into what I'm into?
No.
They're, they're, they're hearts, their values, them as people, like wonderful people, my
parents, my grandparents, all of them, they're, they're awesome.
Yeah.
Do you feel like since you have so massively changed your vibration, for lack of a better
(33:09):
way to say it, that you're attracting different and that you've been able to build this life
because you're resonating with like new energies that are more in alignment with your path?
Yeah.
I mean, like, you know, there was a time in my life, just not that long ago, like four
(33:29):
or five years ago where I didn't have a single friend, like now one, you know, like, because
that's just a necessary stage sometimes in, in one's evolution, especially for me as a
young guy at that time, you know, 21, 22, like starting over, essentially feeling like
(33:54):
I was being reborn and like still in my small town, I just, I just didn't have any friends,
right?
And now I look around it at my friend group and my connections and I'm just, I'm like
amazed.
I'm like so thankful, you know, that, yeah, I mean, to answer your question, yeah, I mean,
(34:15):
but I think where people get hung up is I see it all the time is like people begin to
awaken, but the grip of like old friendships, old relationships, worrying about what those
people think about you, what they're going to say about you, it, it, it, it, it kills
(34:37):
people for lack of a better word.
I think it really does it, it, it keeps your soul in a box in a lot of ways.
And that's why for me, a huge part of my journey was just getting the hell out of dodge and
living in a fucking tent with like door dashing for a living, like me and McKenzie, like we
literally did this, like we broke our lease, we were living in Cleveland.
(35:00):
Our only source of income was door dashing Instacart.
We tried to get a van, tried to get a loan for a van, just wasn't working.
We were going to do van life, but we made a covenant commitment to each other that when
this certain month rolled around, if we didn't have the van, we were getting in that Lexis
with a tent and we were getting the fuck out of here.
And that's what we did.
(35:21):
And that was best decision I ever made.
Yeah, I think the universe rewards that kind of leaping.
Yes, 100%.
Yeah, I've always seen it for myself and for people that I've witnessed, it's always a
positive when someone leaps like that and really takes on something of faith.
(35:42):
Yeah, and there's always challenges and like, you know, this is like the hero's journey,
you know, quote unquote.
And it's like, there's plenty of adversaries and challenges and darkness along that path,
but the depth of your soul and your reason, like your why and your, it all that energy,
(36:10):
just it'll carry you through anything, but we don't understand our power until we have
to test it.
You know, like if we're just in our comfortable, you know, same routine we've been in going
to our job and hanging out with the same people and staying in the same vibration and never
(36:32):
having to like have your character tested, right?
Like that's where you, that's where you find it.
That's where you find it within yourself.
And so many people in our country have never embarked on a journey like that, you know,
like even Keith, you as a very young man joining the military.
(36:53):
I mean, that's something like that right there is a huge fucking journey into the abyss,
into the unknown.
But bro, we live in a world where like so many young men will literally just from, from
the age of eight years old till maybe death, video games, porn, the same little vibration,
(37:18):
this like little, this stuck vibrate, never going on a journey, you know, staying in their
same town.
And it's not that you got to leave, even leave your town.
I'm not saying that necessarily.
I'm just saying like, and it's like, like as a man too, like as a, as a male mammal,
like you got to look at, you got to remember, like we've only been this for a little bit,
(37:45):
whatever we are now, we've only been this for like the blink of an eye, like with lights
and microphones and shit and like soap, you know, this is like only like a, this is like
the blink of an eye in terms of what we are, you know, so you got to, you got to honor
(38:05):
your biology, you know, that is like, you know, and I don't think you should be like
a slave to your biology, right, or a victim to your biology, like, you know, I'm sure
Keith can, can agree, like if, if we, if we just let our biology make decisions for us,
we would probably just be like, we'd probably have a hundred children, you know, or something
(38:28):
like that with, with a hundred different women, right?
If we were like only, you know, letting our biology, you know, guide us, but I think it's
important to honor your biology, right?
Like have an understanding of it, like, oh, okay, like I am designed to be in a tribal
situation and if we were in a tribal situation, I would be a, as a man, as a like a big, like
(39:00):
able bodied strong man, like I would be a leader of the tribe, right?
And I would, and I would be going to war and I would be organizing armies and like making
medicine and like, or whatever, maybe I was the town shaman or whatever, right?
But like, there's all these different elements of being human that we've just kind of like
(39:23):
thrown away where we're just, and we've, we've created like a very sterile situation that's
death to the human spirit.
Yes.
Dude, there's, there's this dude named Sebastian Younger.
He's a journalist and he wrote a book called war and it became a documentary called Restrepo,
(39:44):
which is, to me, it's just so eye opening to what these kids go through, you know, in
war.
But he wrote after that whole experience, he wrote another book later on called tribes.
And one of his theories is that you take a platoon and you put them in a location where
(40:07):
they are, they are basically cut off from everybody, you know, food comes in at certain
points and stuff, but it is, you're with the same small group of dudes and, and you're within
arms reach, you know, pretty much at all times.
So his theory is that one of the issues with, with PTSD is we're living for a, for a time
(40:32):
or these guys are living for a time as we did for the majority of human existence.
And that, and you're doing that for a long time where life is just about survival.
You know, all this, all the other bullshit of, you know, do I got to get, I got to put
gas in my car or, you know, like, I'm out here because my neighbors do and work on their
(40:55):
house, you know, like, and at first it's like annoying, all that stuff just disappears
because we're living back in those tribes, you know, and then there's such a hard, it's
almost like a memory from our DNA and like a grief from our DNA of what we're missing.
Yeah.
(41:16):
And then you come back to America, right, where you're in your house and you're, there's
no tribe, no community, no brothers around, and you're here, you know, asked to as a man,
right?
Now you got to take care of your family and you're whatever your work is, you're working
to take care of your family and your house and all this stuff.
(41:37):
And you're just completely alone and broken in terms of that, that element that you need.
And that's a really great point, Keith, and I'm sure for like, for those guys who are
actually in war, it is on a whole other level that I could never even imagine.
But if you even zoom out and just look at us like as a species, how, how, how much that's
(41:59):
affected us and, and fucked us up, you know, like Terrence McKenna worded it one time along
the way of like, we have been thrust from the guy in womb and thrown into the chaos
of history.
You know, like we've lost this family, tribal, connected kind of energy, you know, we have
(42:23):
no connection to the land, to our food, to our, to the, to the table that we're, our
devices sitting on, right?
Like, you know, just very like literally like a hundred years ago, like you couldn't have
something unless you made it or grew it, or you knew the person who made or grew it.
(42:46):
And now with the Amazon, you know, just ordering things and everything's quick and fast food.
And it's, I mean, there's, listen, I mean, this is a big, it's a very big problem that
we are going to have to unpack and face.
But I have a feeling that it's kind of like, you know, like the idea of like something
(43:10):
will fall as quickly as it was built.
You know what I mean?
I feel like there's an issue that will pop like a balloon and fall instantly once enough
people like not only awaken to it, but then act on it.
You know what I mean?
And we have to be smart.
We have to wait for the right time to act because the system is falling apart.
(43:34):
Like the darkness, like it's over, but the darkness, which controls our external world,
like our physical world is completely controlled by evil and darkness.
Like that's just, it is what it is.
It's true.
But like the planet, the cosmos, right?
(43:55):
You can't fuck with this energy.
This is not controlled by the darkness.
Only our tax and political and, you know, the big companies and this shit, right?
But as quickly as it was built, which we're literally looking at like a hundred year period,
it will fall.
I feel, I feel like it's, I feel like it will crumble and we'll be right back to, you know,
(44:21):
that homeostasis of tribe and love and connectedness.
Like we're certainly heading in that direction.
Like Terrence McKenna would word it like we're in the birth canal right now of a new species
of human being.
And if you were to just walk in on a birth without any context to what's happening, it
(44:44):
looks like death.
Yeah.
It's, you'd think something is terribly wrong, you know?
And if you're assigned to that same token, we have been stuck in the middle of a birth
canal, which think about it, like the walls are closing in life as you knew it is no more.
(45:07):
The, you're fucking coming into these lights and you're like screaming, like this is a
baby.
This is what a baby experiences coming out of the womb and into the 3D world, right?
And so we are collectively in that birth canal.
And so all we have to do is not panic and not feed the darkness, like extract ourselves
(45:34):
from the darkness, align ourselves with the light, with God, with nature, with the great
spirits, whatever spirits you want to align yourself with, Jesus and San Pedro or Buddha
or Ganesh and Krishna.
I mean, I mean, whatever the medicine, whatever, but you gotta, you gotta align with something,
(45:59):
with the light, with the good, because I feel like part of the process is you have to like
decondition, deprogram a lot of the shit.
But then that's a dangerous place to be in because then you're like very open, you know?
And so I think it's important to have, I was just telling like a younger guy this the other
(46:20):
day, like pray to something, to someone.
It doesn't have to be indoctrinated.
It doesn't have to be, I know we were all hurt by Christianity, most of us.
And our trust was broken with these types of things.
But the spirit of Jesus, the spirit of all of these characters and these saints, it's
(46:44):
real.
It is real.
I felt it.
I've seen it.
It's real.
The way it's packaged to us is manipulated and controlled and demented and designed to
extract our soul from us, our life force, our love, our money, our humanity.
(47:06):
It's very evil.
And I know we're getting into deep water here, but you know, this is, love it, dude.
This is where we're at.
This is where we're at.
So, you know, and that's why the medicine is so important because it's one thing to like
think about these things.
(47:28):
It's another thing to really like experience it on the deepest level.
Like I've had experiences like in Iowa, where I have seen and felt evil in a way that I
could, could have never like capitulated in my mind, you know, of like what evil was,
(47:51):
but like seeing it and feeling it in like fully.
And same with the light.
Same with like, like to that same token.
I was just in, uh, Wautla working with the mushroom shamans there, having like the most
beautiful sacred connections with, with these spirits and with, with the light and with
(48:19):
love and with, you know, that Christ consciousness, like really feeling that like on a deep level,
you know, so that's why the medicine is so important is because like we as human beings
are so, I'm careful with my words, right?
As we should be, but it is, I think it's a delusion of reality to call the human species
(48:42):
anything other than sick and confused.
And we're sick because we've been, we're being poisoned.
Yes.
We're being poisoned.
So like a bit, like something Arturo has really ingrained in my head is like, bro, you have,
you cannot feed the darkness in any capacity, you know, and, and everybody's version of
(49:04):
feeding the darkness is different for some people that might be politicking for some
people that might be drinking alcohol, that might be masturbation, it might be anger, it
might be whatever it is.
Like we all have different versions of like our version of feeding the darkness.
(49:25):
And so, you know, that's like a big, an important point to make, like you have to align with
the light and then also not see the darkness because then you get confused and you see
a lot of this, I'm sure you guys see it like in this whole like quote unquote spiritual,
psychedelic community, like there's a lot of people very confused who have like one
foot in and one foot out, you know, and that's like a really like, that's like, that's like
(49:51):
a worse place to be than like all in on darkness or, or light, like it really like it's, it's
like a worse place to be, it's confusing, it's painful, and you're open to these dark
energies, manipulating you, sucking you dry, these like vampiric energies, right?
If you're not like all in on your devotion to, to truth and light and, and goodness.
(50:19):
Yeah, I found like through, through my, my whole journey that there is, there are so
many people out there that maybe even their intention is good, but it's still the same
thing, it's still more of just sucking things from, from you, you know, where it's, I've,
I've been through this, so therefore this is the way.
(50:40):
If you do it any other way, you're wrong.
This is it.
Just listen to me.
It's like, nobody can fix me.
I'm the only one can.
I can find advice.
I can find guidance.
I can find teachers, mentors, you know, but I'm the one that has to do the work, even
just listening to all the advice.
Like you said, like you get one foot in, one foot out, you know, talking about the Christ
(51:02):
consciousness.
That's one of the things that, that, that Jesus talked about was being lukewarm.
You know, like in the Bible, he said, I would rather spew you out of my mouth if you're
just lukewarm, having one foot in, one foot out.
Yeah.
You know, and for me, this is, it's so funny.
We keep talking about this darkness.
You know, the other day I was, you know, when we leave, we, we, we, we like treat our dog
(51:26):
better than we treated our kids.
Our kids are like, or like, dude, dog has more toys than we have.
You know, so when we leave, we, we leave like Disney movies on for, because, you know, like,
so she can have like some, some, some company.
And I was putting on, was it monsters university or something?
And, and I realized like, we always talk about our monsters and our demons, you know, and
(51:49):
we can have those demons and those demons can be something from like a Stephen King novel,
you know, but those same monsters can also be something from monsters, Inc.
You know, this cute cuddly thing.
Like, so one of my intentions, because I feel a block, I feel things in my head, but I don't
feel them in my heart.
What do we have?
(52:10):
Like something like 39,000 brain cells within our heart, you know, and I want to break through
that block.
And almost, and I don't know, maybe it's, it's wrong to think of it this way, but almost
like fall in love with the darkness to see it for what it is.
Like in physics, they talk about at the moment of creation, like the Big Bang, whatever you
(52:31):
want to like name it as, there was a release of matter and antimatter, you know, and if
it was a 50 50 split, the universe wouldn't exist.
It would cancel itself out.
You know, there was just a little bit more matter than the antimatter, you know, but
the antimatter is, is just as important because without it, again, the universe wouldn't exist.
(52:52):
Yeah.
And that's why you're coming in December, Keith.
I would see even in my, I was like, that block you're talking about that disconnect.
I mean, this medicine is going to blow that door open.
That's what, that was one of my big questions about that, you know, because we, and we talked
(53:15):
about this when we did that, the call where you're explaining it to me.
And you had mentioned like mushrooms help you.
I want, I want to say mushrooms like help you see, but it doesn't really kind of get
you to that point.
Well, what I said was, and, and I am a devotee of the mushroom.
(53:35):
Let's, let's not get it confused.
But, and this is a nuanced thing.
There's exceptions, but the way I've been wording it is mushrooms make you not asleep.
Yes.
Yes.
Ayahuasca awakens you.
Like there are levels to awakening, right?
(53:57):
Like it's one thing to like realize, okay, the pharmaceutical industry is fucked.
The food system is fucked.
Like I'm not my body, right?
Like these are all like, you're not asleep.
Right?
Like you're like seeing, but like this medicine, I can't even explain it.
Like words do zero justice.
(54:19):
Like it, it will, it, it, it, it cleans you.
Like it's like a, like, you know, like Arturo tells me, you know, he's like his, his teacher
tells him like, um,
there is no revolution.
(54:40):
There's no political change.
There's no nothing like that.
Art humanity will heal when every single person simply cleans their own heart.
Simply cleans their own heart that will remove all of the issues.
(55:00):
It's the cleaning of the individual heart.
And that is what this medicine specializes in, you know, in a way that, uh, listen, I
think you could go your whole life with just mushrooms and, and have a, and, and, and get
to a good place.
But the fact that this medicine exists and notice I'm saying this medicine, like ayahuasca
(55:25):
is amazing medicine, but like this one, I can't remember if it was the podcast I did
right before this, but did we?
I don't know if we touched on like the difference, but this, this ayahuasca that you're coming
to drink Keith is very special.
Like very, very, very special.
It, it.
(55:46):
Yeah.
Talked about a little bit where there's only the four people like in the world that, that
use this particular recipe.
Yeah.
Listen, I mean, there's hundreds of different ways to cook ayahuasca.
Like just for your, for your audience, quick rundown.
The ayahuasca brew, it's made with a combination of plants.
It's not just one plant.
So every pretty much everything in nature contains DMT, dimethyl tryptamine.
(56:11):
It's a neurotransmitter.
It's in our own brain, our own body, and it's in like every plant, some in higher concentrations
than others.
Right.
But if we were to just go pick the most DMT rich plant, like the Chakruna leaf, for example,
which is what they use in the Amazon, the Chakruna leaf, super rich.
It's like all DMT.
(56:32):
If we were to grab a bunch of those and eat them, absolutely nothing would happen because
we have an enzyme in our gut called a mono antioxidized inhibitor, which breaks down
the DMT instantly and doesn't allow us to have the experience of it.
But when it's combined with the ayahuasca vine, so ayahuasca is a vine and it's, it's
(56:52):
a scientific name is banisteriopsis capi.
And ayahuasca has a few different translations.
My favorite of which being the little death.
And so, so, so people call it the vine of souls, but I much prefer the little death.
That's like what the deep like tight shawmans, like that's what they know it as the little
(57:15):
death.
But anyway, so normally like in a, in a brew of ayahuasca, you have like the Chakruna leaf,
the ayahuasca vine, and maybe the shaman puts in like one or two other plants, right?
This brew here has like 14 different plants in it and it creates this crazy synergy and
(57:37):
these plants.
So it has like your classic ayahuasca plants, ayahuasca vine and everything, but it has
a bunch of these plants that the Maya shamans used in ceremony and for healing purposes in
it, blended in it.
And so our Turro's teacher taught it to him.
And so literally only a couple of people in the whole planet like actually make this or
(58:00):
know how to make it.
And it's very special and it's very different.
You know, like when I first drank it, I, I literally came there straight from Peru.
Like I was in Peru drinking with this like master dude from the middle of the jungle
been, been doing this for 45 years, got attacked and got, got his leg ripped off by an alligator
(58:23):
by a caiman when he was 12 and started drinking medicine and dieting from that day on.
And this guy's like in his sixties, right?
Master, right?
And I, but I got to just be real that ayahuasca and those experiences don't hold a candle
to what goes down at this, at our Turro's temple in the, not even fucking close.
(58:48):
Like, like, like there's so many differences, but like, for example, like the stuff in Peru
was black sludge, right?
And you drink it and like, yes, it's not that it's bad medicine, but like, for example,
like I would be sleeping before the ceremony even closed sometimes.
(59:09):
Like three hours in, I'm asleep.
This stuff, you don't sleep until noon the next day.
Like it literally awakens you in every way possible.
Like to where you're watching the sun come up, just getting flooded with wisdom and like
realizations and like, I mean, it is just, it is so special and so profound.
(59:33):
And so that's why I'm at the point where I'm like, there's no, there's no words left,
you know, like people, please just come here.
And experience it so we can clean our hearts and we can like move on because there's so
much pain and sickness amongst our people.
(59:55):
And we are the powerhouse of the world, America.
And we are the unexamined ego of the world.
We're like the 11 year old.
We're like, we're like, we're like the richest person on the planet that's 11 years old and
has like no humbleness at all.
Like that's America.
And we are seeping our poison, like the poisons in our own people are receiving the poison.
(01:00:21):
And then American poison is also being seeped all over the country.
I mean, I've been to remote villages in Laos, remote mountains in Mexico and the Americanization
is everywhere, but in more, in less concentration than others.
And so we're very blessed and I'm very grateful to Arturo and to Bernardino and to these
(01:00:42):
different shamans I work with into the communities and to their families for even allowing us
to come to their sacred land in Mexico and have these experiences.
Mexico to me is like the most sacred area on our entire planet.
And if Mexico falls, we are fucked like spiritually.
(01:01:03):
They are holding it together spiritually for like our entire planet.
You know, it's so, it's so funny, like I was just seeing there's like the travel advisories
to Mexico, like that constant of all the violence there, you know, all that sort of stuff.
But contrary, like it's kind of goes contradictory to what like what you're talking about though.
(01:01:28):
Like, I mean, just that spiritual.
Yes.
Holding it together spiritually.
Well, Keith, listen, bro, this is how this is the thing is the darkness.
This runs America.
And so they plot.
They don't want us going to make they want us to hate Mexico.
(01:01:48):
Mexico to what I've realized.
Mexico is the shadow of the US.
Everything that we're scared to look at with like how we started this podcast, all of that
work is represented in Mexico and in the people.
All of the everything that we're that we've pushed away within ourselves love family,
(01:02:13):
community, respect for the land, respect for our religion or our spiritual beliefs, whatever
it is, respect is the big one.
We have zero.
We don't respect ourselves.
We don't respect our ancestry, our land.
And so all of these values are alive.
(01:02:35):
Oh, and well in Mexico.
And don't get me wrong.
Like we were just talking about this on the podcast with Arturo year by year.
It's getting worse with the Americanization.
And by the way, just let me just like I love America and everything that the foundations
of this country was built on.
(01:02:55):
American people are the sweetest, very smart people, like very smart people.
The problem is we're being poisoned and confused, right?
But America's lovely people, but we've lost touch with our ancestry.
This is a massive issue.
Like like people in Asia that I've spent time with their Mexico, they know what 12 generations
(01:03:20):
ago we're doing.
Yep.
We don't know what two generations ago we're doing.
I asked like I asked my grandparents the other day, like where are your grandparents
from, I don't know, maybe Germany or something like, wow, like really?
You don't know.
You know, this like really, this like sticks out to me as like a major issue.
(01:03:41):
Because if you don't know where you come from, you don't know where you're going.
You don't know who you are.
You don't know what your people stood for.
What kind of, and it's not that you have to live in the past and you're in the, in like,
you know, in that, but it's like, you know, you could come from like this long, long,
long lineage of, of, you know, warriors or teachers or wizards, right?
(01:04:08):
And like you're pursuing some other path because societies told you that that's what you need
to do and you feel lost and confused.
When in reality, if you could just study, because we all know history repeats itself.
And if you could just study, okay, what were my grandfathers and their grandfathers, what
were they doing, maybe I can lean into that and I can find a lot of purpose and a lot
(01:04:33):
of success in, in these areas.
You know, my, my mother's, let's see, my grandmother married a guy named, I think his
name, John Rial.
I think I met him once, but Rial and Italian, they come from Southern Italy.
(01:04:56):
And my grandmother told me once that Rial, I don't know if it's like Italian or something
like with Sicily or something, but anyways, where they came from, the name means royalty.
So back generations ago, I could have been from like a Royal Italian family.
Right.
You know, and then today I see myself as worthless, you know, like what royalty have we ever seen
(01:05:20):
that walks around like, I suck.
I'm, I'm worth it.
You know, but yeah, I mean, the past gives us the foundation from which we can build
our future on.
And there was, I mean, this was the thing that started me on this journey.
And me and Mindy talked about it a lot, but this, this model for a rite of passage that,
that these anthropologists came up with in this, this one anthropologist, Victor Turner
(01:05:42):
said that when you start to see countries become more industrialized, you see them move
away from rites of passage, you know, that a lot of these, you know, other countries
that we would say third world, you know, the kids still go through these, these rite, rite
of passage models that, that they all have.
And he said, the more you do that, the more we're going to have a mental health crisis
(01:06:02):
in this country.
And look, and we, what, and, and from looking at history, we can understand that the sickness
that we have as Americans, this parasite, this American parasite, this like dominator,
conqueror, more bigger, I'm the best, I'm never wrong.
(01:06:23):
This, all of this was inherited from the Roman Empire.
Yeah, yeah.
They are the really like the forefathers of this disease, the Roman Empire.
And you see this, I don't know if you guys see it, but maybe it's in my age range.
Guys are like unconsciously obsessed with the Roman Empire, thinking that it was like
(01:06:47):
a good place to be.
Like the Roman Empire on earth.
Yeah.
99.999% of its population.
Hell on earth.
Very similar to what we're dealing with here.
And it's because the leaders were not rooted in any sort of spirituality.
All they cared about was control, which is what, I mean, they had, this is why they had
(01:07:11):
to kill Jesus.
Because the guy was just managing too much consciousness, he was awakening too many people
that not only was the only solution to kill him, but then to take all of his teachings
and pollute them, manipulate them, and make an entire religion not out of his teachings,
(01:07:33):
but out of his death.
Because if you can do that, if you can make, because his, his shit was so powerful, they
knew it was going to live on forever.
And so they're like, okay, we got to, we got to keep this, we got to control this somehow.
So think about it.
And this is like a sensitive thing that maybe is better reserved for in person conversations.
(01:07:55):
But I mean, what I just said there, like you take, you take this amazing phenomena, Jesus
Christ, right, and everything he stood for, which the first words of the Bible, let there
be light, right, everything he stood for, that is not taught in Christianity or church.
(01:08:19):
Very rarely do you even go to church and hear anything about the teachings.
It's all about the death.
And when you make it about the death, then you instill the lowest vibrations possible,
shame, guilt, sorry, fear.
(01:08:40):
You're Jesus died for you.
So now you have to be guilty and you have to fear hell.
And when you're in that vibration, you're so easy to manipulate and control.
You're so easy to manipulate.
And so that's what they did, right?
And we're living in like the shadow of that, you know, and that's why you see this mass
(01:09:06):
influx of Americans leading to Central and South America and like seeking shamanism and
seeking like real spiritual experiences because we're starving for it.
You know, it's been, it's been ripped from us.
It's been twisted like Jesus, this whole story, it's so sacred and like powerful and
(01:09:32):
real, but the way it's been presented to us is like disgusting, evil, demonic.
Yeah, it's funny because I'm one of the things that Jesus said is I am the vine.
Talking about like that DMT, the vine, you know, with the ayahuasca and it like, yeah.
Yeah, there's a lot to it with all of that.
(01:09:55):
And maybe that, you know, we, that's something else spend the rest of my life studying and
yeah, feeling into and we can maybe do another podcast, you know, next year all about this
or something, but yeah, yeah, I really appreciate you coming on today.
Such a good conversation.
I could just go forever.
I am interested in your retreats.
(01:10:21):
We could probably have a whole nother podcast on the fears and blocks that I have between
me and going, which could be an interesting conversation.
I've been trying to peer pressure Mindy and to come and like, you know, all the cool kids
are doing it, you know, but it worked so far.
I mean, I am a big like backpacker, traveler, you sleep on dirt.
(01:10:43):
So like none of that kind of stuff bothers me at all.
But I'll just say what my biggest fear is and we can leave it.
I am not ready to surrender to whatever I'm told to do.
Like there's still a piece of me that likes my life and likes my business and likes my
(01:11:08):
and knowing that if I'm told something and it imprints on my soul that that is now what
I go do and there's a part of my ego or self that's not ready to surrender yet.
And I don't know right now.
Right now, I guess I'm just sitting with that, right?
(01:11:30):
Like in my meditation is like, okay, you're here, buddy.
Like, but until we gain a better relationship, like we're 50 50 right now, right?
Like him controlling my life or this other piece of me.
And I think I need to be 51 he needs to be 49 for me to make a choice to actually pay
the money and go.
I don't know if that makes sense.
(01:11:51):
Am I describing that correctly?
Do you guys know what I'm saying?
Yeah, I get what you're saying.
And I think we should have a private conversation.
Okay, we will.
I'd appreciate that.
Yeah, we can we can arrange that in the in our little group chat there on Instagram.
Okay, yeah.
Perfect.
Well, I like this.
(01:12:11):
Thank you guys so much.
It's another great Friday morning conversation.
I just love our Friday mornings.
Oh, yeah, I mean, we're the best.
Besides soul, a jerk, subscribe to soul a jerk.
We're like, thank you.
Now, I think you guys have a great thing going on here.
I think your guys is I got to really feel and, you know, experience your guys's energy
(01:12:34):
and dynamic and I think an awesome thing going on here.
Just just keep doing it.
And I'm happy to come come back on anytime.
I appreciate it, man.
Thanks very much.
All right, guys, I'm going to turn off the recording.
Goodbye, everyone.
Thank you so much for joining us.
We are so grateful for all of our listeners.
(01:12:59):
Please support us in doing what we love.
It's as simple as hitting that like or subscribe button.
It would really mean a lot to us.
Thanks guys.
We'll see you next week.
What is my next challenge in daring to be human?
(00:10):
How do I connect with life?
How can I let go of my need for fixed answers in favor of aliveness?
How do I live free from the experiences that shaped me?
How can we be the change the world needs right now?
Join us weekly for Stony Conversations about Life.
It is our mission to allow life itself to reveal to us the answers.
(00:38):
Welcome to Chessie Thoughts.
Hey everybody, I am not used to doing the intros because Mindy always does them.
So go back to an older episode and watch Mindy's intro.
(00:59):
But I am doing it today because I have my buddy coming out here, Jared.
Since I started this whole journey of making these changes in my life, I have come across
three people that have become part of a tribe for me.
My friend Danielle and me and Mindy met over TikTok randomly and started Chasing Thoughts
(01:21):
and now my buddy Jared who has been teaching me all about plant medicine, shamanism and
we are going to be taking a trip in December to experience that in person.
My dog is excited about this episode too.
So dude, welcome man.
Thank you.
Thank you guys for having me.
(01:42):
Thank you for the lovely intro.
I am honored to be part of your soul squad, Keith.
This is my first time meeting Mindy and it's very lovely to be here.
Thank you guys for having me.
Yeah, I just want to say I am a fan as well.
Keith and I talked about your videos for a long time before I think you reached out to
(02:03):
you.
But it's really beautiful to see somebody using this new technology and this new way of being,
right?
Influencer, YouTube, social media to bring more consciousness and spirituality to the
world.
And every time I see somebody doing that work, I just want to jump up and down.
That is freaking exciting.
(02:23):
Yeah, thank you.
I appreciate it.
And yeah, it's a crazy, really crazy like realm to try and navigate.
What?
Doing it or making it happen and to the best of my ability.
Yeah.
Well, I know you want to start telling us a little bit about plant medicine and stuff
(02:44):
and Keith has some questions for you.
I have some questions about that too.
Like the balance of how you, you know, go from sort of one world to another and keep
presence.
And so it's going to be a fun exploration today.
Yeah.
Hey, listen, I have no agenda.
Whatever you guys want to get into for your listeners and for yourself, I'm open for it.
(03:05):
Whatever you guys have to throw my way.
Awesome.
Yeah, it's cool too.
Because like we've been talking about with our guests, like trying to just have that open
conversation and just letting everything flow and allow the conversation to take the direction
that dictates.
So this is going to be cool, man.
You're going to be like the best person to do this with for the first time, man.
(03:26):
Amazing.
Do you normally have guests on or is it normally you guys?
So we started just the two of us and then we started having guests and the feeling just
didn't feel quite right to Keith and I because what's exciting for us and I'm sure you'll
understand what I mean when I say this is letting the space itself or consciousness or whatever
(03:51):
this stuff is out here.
We've itself into the conversation and bring wisdom that neither one of us had or our guest,
right?
Like truth arising from people gathered in the presence of truth.
Yes, I love that.
Opening the portal.
Yeah.
And so we stopped having guests because we're like, we're not opening it.
(04:11):
Like we opened the portal with each other, but we're not opening the portal with guests.
Like we got to figure this out a little bit.
So kind of massaging it.
So now we're going back into having guests with this new way of like, okay, we understand
the portal more.
How can we hold space for that portal and really have the kind of conversations that
we want to.
Amazing.
(04:32):
Amazing.
I'm stoked to get into it.
Yeah.
So tell us a little bit about just your journey with plant medicine, your first trip, kind
of how it started for you.
Well, yeah, I'll give you the short rundown.
I am from this little tiny farm town in Ohio and, you know, I had no idea who I was.
(04:54):
I felt invisible.
I didn't resonate with anything or anyone.
So I got into bodybuilding and started using steroids.
And so at 19 years old, I was 240 pounds sticking needles in my chest every day.
You know, that's where I found myself.
(05:15):
And by the grace of God, when I was 20, my friend introduced me to LSD and long story
short, after years of dedicating myself to bodybuilding, my only focus, six meals a day,
spending four hours a day, spending every dime I earned on steroids, took a small dose
(05:40):
of LSD, hung out at Ohio State campus in Columbus, woke and I swear I woke up the next day.
Not only did I never touch steroids again, but I never thought about it.
And I also never went back to the gym.
Like, I literally just did a complete 180 in my life.
And I became a real estate agent and started eating a lot of mushrooms.
(06:06):
And you know, then I discovered Wim Hof and I learned how to meditate and, you know, and
then I learned about grounding, you know, the story goes on.
But that was really my big moment was, was I was a bodybuilder and had a short bleach
blonde hair, big neck and everything.
I had a nose ring and took LSD for the first time and it was just like, oh, fuck.
(06:31):
Like, pretty small dose too, but it changed my entire life.
So yeah, that's super cool.
I love experiences like that when life itself, you know, sort of goes, okay, we're going
this way.
Yeah.
Yeah, thank God, really, thank God and thank God for LSD, you know, like these days, you
(06:59):
know, I'm, I'm working with what I would consider much more alive, potent, powerful
plant spirits like Wachuma, ayahuasca, the mushrooms, right?
LSD is a great tool, but it lacks spirit.
Right.
It lacks that it lack, like there's not necessarily like an entity behind it.
(07:24):
You know, it's like this, it's kind of a blank canvas, which it definitely has its place.
And I love LSD.
Some of the best days of my life were on like one or two tabs of LSD, like, you know, the
best day of your life, right?
But the work I'm doing now, I just, I can't imagine taking it anytime soon, but I don't
(07:49):
advocate against it.
I think it's a phenomenal tool.
So where is that?
Oh, sorry, go ahead, Mindy.
I was just thinking, you know, where you're at right now, what do you currently think
sort of your mission or purpose or job?
Like what are you leaning into in this moment, where your path is?
(08:10):
Well, I don't know how long you guys have been following me, but this year I have produced
significantly less content.
Like the amount of content I've put out on Instagram this year is like what I was putting
out monthly.
And during that time, so I've been, you know, just really going within doing a lot of personal
(08:34):
stuff and really where it's led me is to the point where I now, I've been, all right, to
answer your question, the retreats, bringing people to like enough talking about it, enough
talking about, because when we talk about this stuff, we're just dancing around the truth.
Like you can never actually, like we're, we're lying.
(08:56):
I'm lying.
But like just by talking about this stuff in general, you will never actually hit it.
You'll never actually hit it.
It's something that must be experienced.
So, and I'm coming back into, you know, podcasting and all of that, but really this year for
me has been a lot of inner work, a lot of silence, a lot of cleaning my own heart and
(09:21):
a lot of working with great teachers and very powerful medicines to get me to the point where
I'm able to be useful in these ceremonies and not just sitting over there watching the
shaman do his thing, the poor, I'm actually able to be useful and to help in the ceremony
and play music and do the prayers and, you know, help facilitate people through their
(09:43):
process.
Right.
Like I wouldn't have, I've been wanting to do this for years, but I wouldn't have been
ready.
Like some of this stuff that I mean it, and we can get into it.
Like I, I've been a part of like actual exorcisms, full blown exorcisms where people's neck
and head are literally coming up off the floor and we're releasing spirits and it's very
intense.
Right.
(10:03):
So, these services are necessary for me if I'm going to be doing this work, you know,
so this year has been a huge learning year for me, you know, for the last few years,
I felt like I had a lot to say.
And then this year I've just been like, God, I have nothing to say.
I am just observing and learning and absorbing the teachings from the medicine, from my teachers,
(10:31):
et cetera.
So my, where my heart and energy is, is in these retreats.
I just moved into this house in Ohio, near my family, which is lovely.
I'm looking out at Lake Erie.
It's wonderful.
And between here and Mexico, here and Mexico, that is, that is all I'm doing for the foreseeable
(10:51):
next six months, 12 months, whatever.
That's all I'm focused on right now.
Yeah, that, that journey of going in, I think is like the most terrifying, courageous thing
that I do in my life.
And I think when people hear someone say something like you just did, the whole picture isn't
(11:17):
clear.
Like I imagine that this has been difficult work where you're really hitting your comfort
zone and you're doing things that scare you and you're fearing what you're going to find
in yourself.
Like, can you speak a little bit more to like the difficult parts of choosing to devote
yourself to a season of personal growth?
(11:39):
So what I've found and just a preface for your audience, like I'm not an expert in anything,
not degrade in anything.
This is all just my own experience.
Just want to put that out there.
But what I've found is the situations in our lives are very purposeful.
(12:06):
They're very karmic, right?
And we spend a lot of time running from them, avoiding them, making excuses for them, being
a victim.
And I think really what the internal process is like, there's this like great way of looking
(12:29):
at it.
I love like the only way out is through.
So that's really what it comes down to.
And that's going to look different for every single person, but everybody listening has
certain things in their life that are very triggering for them.
That they don't like whether it's a relationship with a family member or your relationship with
(12:51):
your children or your career or some soul ambition that's been calling you that you've
been shunning away.
It's like leaning into the discomfort in a lot of ways.
And then coming out on the other side, liberated and changed and completed.
(13:13):
But this is something I just put out a podcast with my friend, Evan, the other day.
And something we were talking about was how in our culture in America, we're very confused
on what awakening is.
We have this idea that awakening is all about like, highness and light and love.
(13:35):
And that's a part of it.
But the shaman knows that that's only one part of it, right?
The lower realms, the darkness, there's so much teachings here and there's so much to
be integrated there.
You don't want to feed the darkness, but you must observe your darkness and take note
(13:59):
of what's going on in there.
Because then you're not a whole person.
You're like one half of the yin-yang symbol.
You're just like one half.
And there is no light without the darkness.
So your light can't actually last.
And it can't actually, because everybody who like, like in 2020, you know, like that was
like a period of like, highness, light, love, that's amazing.
(14:24):
But a lot of people take that and then they think that they have, like that that is going
to give them the energy and the power to go heal or help others heal.
And it, you crumble light, you fold like a cheap chair because the light isn't real,
but light isn't real unless the darkness has been integrated first.
So, oh my God, dude, yeah.
(14:45):
You know, like there's no, there's no, there's no, you know, it's like that Carl Jung quote,
like a tree's branches can only reach the heavens if its roots have first reached the
depths of hell.
It's that kind of idea.
It's like your, your, your tree is going to blow over in the first storm.
If those roots aren't fucking deep, you know?
(15:08):
And then once you look at all, it's not as scary as we like fear is more so like fear
of the unknown.
But you know, I, in my experience, like, you know, people watching people like have really
strong medicine and purge and have exorcism and all like, they're like, they're relieved
(15:28):
afterwards.
Like, you know what I mean?
It's not like, it's not like they go through the darkness and they come out on the other
side like in misery.
You're relieved.
It's relieving.
It's, there's liberation in your shit.
So that's what the process has been.
You know, it's just like leaning into all of, all of the shit, all of the shit I was avoiding,
(15:54):
all of the shit that was triggering, like our triggers are our teachers.
Like if it triggers you, there's a reason.
And so just leaning into a lot of that stuff and, you know, taking, yeah.
I think what you're doing is so beautiful.
It's interesting.
So I was a personal trainer at one point.
(16:15):
Okay.
People with their bodies.
And then I started to realize without like the mental emotional component, like this
isn't going anywhere.
So then I got certified as a coach and I worked with people as a coach.
But now I'm kind of at the place where I'm like, even this isn't it.
It's the experience.
It's the depth.
It's the spiritual stuff.
(16:36):
So my own journey has sort of followed this journey of what you're talking about, sort
of chasing what is it that I have to be in relationship with inside of myself and how
do I build that relationship so that I know how to be consciousness and human form on this
planet, right?
(16:57):
And help other people do the same.
And so I think it's so cool what you're doing and how you're preparing yourself first so
that you can be somebody's guide, right?
You're like, okay, we're going to go down the dark tunnel.
Like I'm right here with you and we'll be here on the other side.
And that's important work, especially right now.
(17:19):
I think it's like where we are as humanity and how we're going to involve next or not
evolve.
We will see.
I have hope, but we have a lot of cleaning to do of our own selves, which is why I'm
going, I mean, listen, there's much better ways to make money.
(17:40):
I built this social media management empire.
I could just be doing that.
But the conviction in my heart to do these retreats monthly is just so strong.
And so that's what we're doing.
I'm so stoked you're coming, Keith.
It's gonna be fucking awesome.
So is that gonna be your first one that you're going on, Keith?
Or have you done that before?
(18:01):
Yeah.
Yes.
Me, my first one.
And honestly, like it was sort of, I have like a similar feeling to this is when I joined
the military, you know, like as I was going flying down a fort bending, I was like, what
the hell am I doing?
Like you guys, you guys were personal trainers.
I took, I took the opposite path, you know, like I was, I was like part of the Burger King
(18:22):
fan club, like when I was 19, dude, you know, so or 17.
So I went in this little roly-poly dude and just like, what, what am I doing?
And every once in a while, it'll cross my mind.
Like I'm, I'm going to the Yucatan to work with this Mayan guy who's, who's connected
(18:45):
through time, you know, with shamanism and then also a very educated dude, you know what
I mean?
And, and I'm like, what the hell am I doing?
Like this is not me, dude.
That's why, that's why I was like, I'm private bungalow.
Yep, that's me.
I need that.
Like I got to run and hide every once in a while.
(19:07):
Yeah, fair enough, dude.
I mean, we're going to be doing some deep work, but I mean, as you know and feel you're
in amazing hands, Arturo is a true wizard.
And like, I just love him.
He's one of the most important human beings in my entire life.
Like on my five most like most important people in my life, you know, he's one of them.
(19:29):
And like, I trust him with my life with my, I would leave my family, children with him.
You know, it's that kind of vibe.
Yeah, that's awesome.
Yeah.
And that's that, I mean, that connection.
Can you talk about that connection a little bit?
Like how important that is, right?
Because he comes from like a line of.
So Arturo, so Arturo is not fully indigenous, but he has spent his entire life born and raised
(19:55):
in the Yucatan Peninsula amongst like people who do not even speak English, who like only
speak Mayan, like people who like are born in caves that don't even have a social security
card or anything.
Like, but simultaneously, this is a guy who is a degreed engineer and botanist who speaks
(20:18):
five different languages fluently.
So Arturo is a, I mean, he's an actual, they call him El Mago, the magician.
Like he is an actual wizard.
You know, this guy speaks my ancestry's native tongue that I don't even speak German, you
know, he knows everything about my ancestry that I don't even know about.
(20:40):
And this is a Mexican dude, you know, like he, he's, he's, I can't say enough about
him.
And if anybody here wants a taste of Arturo, he very graciously, he's a very private person,
but he very graciously sat down with me for almost three hours on my podcast recently.
So that's available.
If anybody wants to go listen to.
(21:00):
We have to link in the show notes, because I think that's awesome.
Yeah.
I think my, just my YouTube channel and you can go to the podcast section and you'll see
it.
It's recent.
It was like less than two weeks ago.
And yeah, he gets into everything, the Mayan culture and medicine and just everything in
between history and very, very special, very special individuals.
(21:25):
So if anybody's looking for a very great safe place to come drink really potent medicine,
this is the plot, the spot.
Yeah, and this, and this isn't going to be like we're heading to a resort, you know,
overlooking the ocean.
So after like the ceremony, I can go lay on the beach and work on my tan.
Right.
Yes.
(21:46):
It's going to be a little different.
We've got it.
We've made it.
So it's like just comfortable enough.
You know, like, like these bungalows that you booked, you know, like these bungalows
have AC in them.
I have never, one time in the Yucatan Peninsula have I had AC, you know, so it's, you know,
(22:07):
and they're not overly fancy, but they have, we're going to be, it's a level of comfort
that's like good.
It's, it's, it's not too much.
It's going to test you.
And also you're not going to feel just totally like fucking destroyed either because they're
very integrative retreats.
(22:28):
You know, that was something that Arturo really stressed to me.
He's like, Jettet, we cannot have retreats for consumers.
Like we need to empower them.
We need to empower them.
Like, and so that's why we build because Arturo, now learn to make all his own medicine, all
of his own furniture.
He makes all of his own instruments from scratch with native materials from the land, like,
(22:49):
like harps, drums, guitars, everything, you know, so part of the retreats is we build
these shamanic drums, we go in these caves that have like Mayan hand paintings and cenotes
that are on private land.
The public doesn't have access to these, let alone know about them, but Arturo has spent
his entire life.
I mean, this is a guy who, he takes two weeks out of his life, you know, every here and
(23:12):
there and just goes to all these little tiny Mayan villages and just goes and keeps his
relationship with the Mayan elders and goes and shows his respects and brings them gifts
and buys them beer, you know, and, you know, like, you know, just keeping relationships
with all these Mayan elders.
Because when he's not shamaning, he's a tour guide, like a private tour guide.
(23:33):
And that's how I met him because he, he works with this massive YouTuber, Fearless and Far.
I don't know if you guys have seen him, the bald dude who like hunts baboons in Africa
and shit.
And so I had him on my podcast back in December at his house in Mexico, and he invited me
out into the jungle, which is where I met Arturo.
(23:53):
And like Arturo like works for like, you know, he works with like news, like, like, you know,
TV channels and everything.
Like he's really like the best tour guide in the peninsula easily, right.
And so we just have access to, and not only access, but like the wisdom and knowledge,
he knows, like wherever we go, Keith, he's going to be pointing out every, the plants,
(24:14):
the rock structures, what it's used for, how they use this, why that's there, you know,
just like that kind of vibe, you know, it's, so it's really special.
Yeah.
We don't have to talk about my retreats for too long, but I am excited about it.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Dude, like even like all that, this is the reason why, like I decided like where I'm
(24:36):
going and it was weird too.
Cause like, you know, for, for me, trying to like build my thing now, like, you know,
money is, is very tight, you know, and me and me and Sandy were talking, we set like
a price cap, you know, and it came in just at that.
So when I sat down with Sandy, I told her and she's like, well, you have to, you like,
(24:58):
it's just, it's, it's going to happen, you know, that your wife was so supportive in
that way.
That's amazing.
And you know, like we, I made these retreats as inexpensive as humanly possible.
Like, I mean, you, I see crazy shit, you know, three days for six grand.
(25:18):
And you know, and you're with, you're just with some like dude, you know, and it's like,
so we tried to like really, and you know, our tarot is, Janet, we have to give so much
to these people so much more than they could ever imagine.
We have to just give, give, give.
We have to make it the best week of their life, you know, like that's the kind of energy
of our retreat.
(25:39):
So anybody that I'll send you guys a link, you can link it here or go to my Instagram
bio and, and there'll be more info there.
Yeah.
I want to make the, like, especially like the link for, for like the trips, because I think
this is so important, you know, for people that are in, in this position, looking for
something like that.
Yeah.
(26:00):
I'm curious if you have any plans, like, I know you have a community and stuff, but
as your retreats start getting more popular and you do more and more of them, is there
like an aftercare element or an aftercare community that you're hoping to build as well?
Yes, Arturo, that was one of Arturo's, uh, uh, how would you call it, um, rules.
(26:26):
Yeah.
I think we have, and I agree.
I mean, it's not like I was advocating against that.
That's something that he also was like, we have to take care of people afterwards.
So we're actually planning part two retreats for later next year where we actually take
people into the forest to like survive.
Right.
Like, and it's.
Oh my God, dude.
(26:46):
Yeah, yeah, which is going to be gnarly, but, but outside of that, yeah, I mean, we're going
to be having like telegram group chats and zoom catch ups and things like that.
Like, like I'm already doing that.
Um, like with my, you know, my group that I recently took to Oaxaca to have mushroom
ceremonies with Maria Sabina's grandson Bernardino.
(27:08):
I've already talked to all of those people, you know, like privately to, you know, I'm
just, I'm just here for like whatever.
That's really my role in it.
You know, like these retreats, the essence of them is Arturo.
Like everything Arturo has been working on in silence for the last two decades is what
is being showcased here.
And I, as Arturo's disciple and as a, as a patron of the medicine, you know, my job
(27:36):
is I'm really leaning into like my emotional people management communication skills.
Right.
And my job is to like be here for the people that are coming to do this and in whatever
capacity they need.
So yeah, I mean, there's a lot of aftercare zoom calls, group chats and literally like
obviously you have to set boundaries.
(27:57):
You have to that kind of thing, but pretty much unlimited access to me.
Like if you need me, I'll be there for you.
I can't promise I'll be the jump on the phone with you right away.
But like I'm there for anybody who comes to these retreats that needs me.
I'm there for them.
Beautiful.
Yeah.
How your whole journey impacted like your most personal relationships.
(28:20):
I believe you have a wife, a daughter, your parents, right?
The people closest to you, how have they gone on this journey with you?
Because it's a big journey you're taking.
And that means your people have to sort of come along in some form or see themselves
reflected in something they do like or don't like.
Right?
(28:40):
Yeah.
What's that been for you?
Well, I have the most amazing, we're not like technically married, but I call her my wife.
But Mackenzie is like the most legendary woman ever from the moment we met.
We have been on this journey together.
Like our literally the second or third day of us ever meeting, we took a huge dose of
(29:01):
mushrooms together and like, and from the first day we met, we were waking up in the
morning and doing Wim Hof breath work and getting in cold water.
Like this has been the foundation of our relationship.
We got together back in 2020.
And that's literally been the foundation of our relationship.
(29:22):
So she's been on the whole ride with me, like her and our daughter.
I mean, they've been all over the world with me.
My little two year old was just down in Peru in Wachuma ceremonies.
You know, not drinking Wachuma, but you know, sitting on the Shaman's lap and playing her
Maraca and you know, so my family's just integrated into it, you know, in that regard.
(29:46):
And then, and then I guess as far as like my parents and that kind of thing, I mean,
they don't, I wouldn't say they understand it, but they do respect it.
They, they at first, they did not understand or respect, but as it's grown and, you know,
(30:09):
like as silly as it is, external accomplishments really help the older generation.
Like it validates you in a way, you know, like, you know, like my friend, Mike Corey,
who, you know, he's got this huge YouTube channel, right?
But I'm sure him winning the Emmy and beating Zac Efron and Martha Stewart, even though
(30:35):
that's meaningless and actually nobody gives a fuck.
He gets hundreds of millions of views on YouTube every month and that has made hundreds of
thousands of dollars from YouTube.
It may be millions, I don't know.
I'm sure the Emmy for his like grandparents was like the pinnacle, right?
Even though for him it's like whatever.
(30:56):
And so for me, like when my YouTube channel blew up and all this stuff, like it changed
the dynamic and the fact that I'm, you know, 26 with a family and I've never asked my parents
for money one time, you know, that's, you know, I've been doing all this crazy shit
(31:17):
and never called them like, Hey, like I need help.
Like, so they respect whatever I'm up to.
I don't know.
I don't really know in their mind what it, what they think I'm up to, but they can feel
that they do have respect for the work I do, even though they don't quite know all about
(31:37):
it.
And I'm sure it will, it'll get deeper with them, you know, we'll like, I have visions
of, you know, my dad, you know, having a mushroom ceremony, like it's all in the works.
I'll never force it, but there's a lot of times my parents are young.
They're in their 40s, you know, like we, there's, there's a long road ahead.
(31:58):
I think that's so beautiful the way you said, you know, you don't have to understand somebody.
In fact, a lot of times it's hard to understand somebody else to love them and respect them
and be happy for them.
You know, I think a lot of people get confused about that.
So I love the way that you said that.
And I think with each generation, you hope that your kid is more evolved, right?
(32:23):
Hopefully someday your daughter is going to be challenging you in ways that you can't
understand her and you're being pushed past your comfort zone, because that, that's how
we're evolving as a species is becoming more and more conscious these generations, right?
So that means your parents did a good job with you, that you're challenging them and
their level of consciousness.
Definitely.
(32:44):
And yeah, I have, I have, I was raised by amazing people, you know, like, are we, are
they into what I'm into?
No.
They're, they're, they're hearts, their values, them as people, like wonderful people, my
parents, my grandparents, all of them, they're, they're awesome.
Yeah.
Do you feel like since you have so massively changed your vibration, for lack of a better
(33:09):
way to say it, that you're attracting different and that you've been able to build this life
because you're resonating with like new energies that are more in alignment with your path?
Yeah.
I mean, like, you know, there was a time in my life, just not that long ago, like four
(33:29):
or five years ago where I didn't have a single friend, like now one, you know, like, because
that's just a necessary stage sometimes in, in one's evolution, especially for me as a
young guy at that time, you know, 21, 22, like starting over, essentially feeling like
(33:54):
I was being reborn and like still in my small town, I just, I just didn't have any friends,
right?
And now I look around it at my friend group and my connections and I'm just, I'm like
amazed.
I'm like so thankful, you know, that, yeah, I mean, to answer your question, yeah, I mean,
(34:15):
but I think where people get hung up is I see it all the time is like people begin to
awaken, but the grip of like old friendships, old relationships, worrying about what those
people think about you, what they're going to say about you, it, it, it, it, it kills
(34:37):
people for lack of a better word.
I think it really does it, it, it keeps your soul in a box in a lot of ways.
And that's why for me, a huge part of my journey was just getting the hell out of dodge and
living in a fucking tent with like door dashing for a living, like me and McKenzie, like we
literally did this, like we broke our lease, we were living in Cleveland.
(35:00):
Our only source of income was door dashing Instacart.
We tried to get a van, tried to get a loan for a van, just wasn't working.
We were going to do van life, but we made a covenant commitment to each other that when
this certain month rolled around, if we didn't have the van, we were getting in that Lexis
with a tent and we were getting the fuck out of here.
And that's what we did.
(35:21):
And that was best decision I ever made.
Yeah, I think the universe rewards that kind of leaping.
Yes, 100%.
Yeah, I've always seen it for myself and for people that I've witnessed, it's always a
positive when someone leaps like that and really takes on something of faith.
(35:42):
Yeah, and there's always challenges and like, you know, this is like the hero's journey,
you know, quote unquote.
And it's like, there's plenty of adversaries and challenges and darkness along that path,
but the depth of your soul and your reason, like your why and your, it all that energy,
(36:10):
just it'll carry you through anything, but we don't understand our power until we have
to test it.
You know, like if we're just in our comfortable, you know, same routine we've been in going
to our job and hanging out with the same people and staying in the same vibration and never
(36:32):
having to like have your character tested, right?
Like that's where you, that's where you find it.
That's where you find it within yourself.
And so many people in our country have never embarked on a journey like that, you know,
like even Keith, you as a very young man joining the military.
(36:53):
I mean, that's something like that right there is a huge fucking journey into the abyss,
into the unknown.
But bro, we live in a world where like so many young men will literally just from, from
the age of eight years old till maybe death, video games, porn, the same little vibration,
(37:18):
this like little, this stuck vibrate, never going on a journey, you know, staying in their
same town.
And it's not that you got to leave, even leave your town.
I'm not saying that necessarily.
I'm just saying like, and it's like, like as a man too, like as a, as a male mammal,
like you got to look at, you got to remember, like we've only been this for a little bit,
(37:45):
whatever we are now, we've only been this for like the blink of an eye, like with lights
and microphones and shit and like soap, you know, this is like only like a, this is like
the blink of an eye in terms of what we are, you know, so you got to, you got to honor
(38:05):
your biology, you know, that is like, you know, and I don't think you should be like
a slave to your biology, right, or a victim to your biology, like, you know, I'm sure
Keith can, can agree, like if, if we, if we just let our biology make decisions for us,
we would probably just be like, we'd probably have a hundred children, you know, or something
(38:28):
like that with, with a hundred different women, right?
If we were like only, you know, letting our biology, you know, guide us, but I think it's
important to honor your biology, right?
Like have an understanding of it, like, oh, okay, like I am designed to be in a tribal
situation and if we were in a tribal situation, I would be a, as a man, as a like a big, like
(39:00):
able bodied strong man, like I would be a leader of the tribe, right?
And I would, and I would be going to war and I would be organizing armies and like making
medicine and like, or whatever, maybe I was the town shaman or whatever, right?
But like, there's all these different elements of being human that we've just kind of like
(39:23):
thrown away where we're just, and we've, we've created like a very sterile situation that's
death to the human spirit.
Yes.
Dude, there's, there's this dude named Sebastian Younger.
He's a journalist and he wrote a book called war and it became a documentary called Restrepo,
(39:44):
which is, to me, it's just so eye opening to what these kids go through, you know, in
war.
But he wrote after that whole experience, he wrote another book later on called tribes.
And one of his theories is that you take a platoon and you put them in a location where
(40:07):
they are, they are basically cut off from everybody, you know, food comes in at certain
points and stuff, but it is, you're with the same small group of dudes and, and you're within
arms reach, you know, pretty much at all times.
So his theory is that one of the issues with, with PTSD is we're living for a, for a time
(40:32):
or these guys are living for a time as we did for the majority of human existence.
And that, and you're doing that for a long time where life is just about survival.
You know, all this, all the other bullshit of, you know, do I got to get, I got to put
gas in my car or, you know, like, I'm out here because my neighbors do and work on their
(40:55):
house, you know, like, and at first it's like annoying, all that stuff just disappears
because we're living back in those tribes, you know, and then there's such a hard, it's
almost like a memory from our DNA and like a grief from our DNA of what we're missing.
Yeah.
(41:16):
And then you come back to America, right, where you're in your house and you're, there's
no tribe, no community, no brothers around, and you're here, you know, asked to as a man,
right?
Now you got to take care of your family and you're whatever your work is, you're working
to take care of your family and your house and all this stuff.
(41:37):
And you're just completely alone and broken in terms of that, that element that you need.
And that's a really great point, Keith, and I'm sure for like, for those guys who are
actually in war, it is on a whole other level that I could never even imagine.
But if you even zoom out and just look at us like as a species, how, how, how much that's
(41:59):
affected us and, and fucked us up, you know, like Terrence McKenna worded it one time along
the way of like, we have been thrust from the guy in womb and thrown into the chaos
of history.
You know, like we've lost this family, tribal, connected kind of energy, you know, we have
(42:23):
no connection to the land, to our food, to our, to the, to the table that we're, our
devices sitting on, right?
Like, you know, just very like literally like a hundred years ago, like you couldn't have
something unless you made it or grew it, or you knew the person who made or grew it.
(42:46):
And now with the Amazon, you know, just ordering things and everything's quick and fast food.
And it's, I mean, there's, listen, I mean, this is a big, it's a very big problem that
we are going to have to unpack and face.
But I have a feeling that it's kind of like, you know, like the idea of like something
(43:10):
will fall as quickly as it was built.
You know what I mean?
I feel like there's an issue that will pop like a balloon and fall instantly once enough
people like not only awaken to it, but then act on it.
You know what I mean?
And we have to be smart.
We have to wait for the right time to act because the system is falling apart.
(43:34):
Like the darkness, like it's over, but the darkness, which controls our external world,
like our physical world is completely controlled by evil and darkness.
Like that's just, it is what it is.
It's true.
But like the planet, the cosmos, right?
(43:55):
You can't fuck with this energy.
This is not controlled by the darkness.
Only our tax and political and, you know, the big companies and this shit, right?
But as quickly as it was built, which we're literally looking at like a hundred year period,
it will fall.
I feel, I feel like it's, I feel like it will crumble and we'll be right back to, you know,
(44:21):
that homeostasis of tribe and love and connectedness.
Like we're certainly heading in that direction.
Like Terrence McKenna would word it like we're in the birth canal right now of a new species
of human being.
And if you were to just walk in on a birth without any context to what's happening, it
(44:44):
looks like death.
Yeah.
It's, you'd think something is terribly wrong, you know?
And if you're assigned to that same token, we have been stuck in the middle of a birth
canal, which think about it, like the walls are closing in life as you knew it is no more.
(45:07):
The, you're fucking coming into these lights and you're like screaming, like this is a
baby.
This is what a baby experiences coming out of the womb and into the 3D world, right?
And so we are collectively in that birth canal.
And so all we have to do is not panic and not feed the darkness, like extract ourselves
(45:34):
from the darkness, align ourselves with the light, with God, with nature, with the great
spirits, whatever spirits you want to align yourself with, Jesus and San Pedro or Buddha
or Ganesh and Krishna.
I mean, I mean, whatever the medicine, whatever, but you gotta, you gotta align with something,
(45:59):
with the light, with the good, because I feel like part of the process is you have to like
decondition, deprogram a lot of the shit.
But then that's a dangerous place to be in because then you're like very open, you know?
And so I think it's important to have, I was just telling like a younger guy this the other
(46:20):
day, like pray to something, to someone.
It doesn't have to be indoctrinated.
It doesn't have to be, I know we were all hurt by Christianity, most of us.
And our trust was broken with these types of things.
But the spirit of Jesus, the spirit of all of these characters and these saints, it's
(46:44):
real.
It is real.
I felt it.
I've seen it.
It's real.
The way it's packaged to us is manipulated and controlled and demented and designed to
extract our soul from us, our life force, our love, our money, our humanity.
(47:06):
It's very evil.
And I know we're getting into deep water here, but you know, this is, love it, dude.
This is where we're at.
This is where we're at.
So, you know, and that's why the medicine is so important because it's one thing to like
think about these things.
(47:28):
It's another thing to really like experience it on the deepest level.
Like I've had experiences like in Iowa, where I have seen and felt evil in a way that I
could, could have never like capitulated in my mind, you know, of like what evil was,
(47:51):
but like seeing it and feeling it in like fully.
And same with the light.
Same with like, like to that same token.
I was just in, uh, Wautla working with the mushroom shamans there, having like the most
beautiful sacred connections with, with these spirits and with, with the light and with
(48:19):
love and with, you know, that Christ consciousness, like really feeling that like on a deep level,
you know, so that's why the medicine is so important is because like we as human beings
are so, I'm careful with my words, right?
As we should be, but it is, I think it's a delusion of reality to call the human species
(48:42):
anything other than sick and confused.
And we're sick because we've been, we're being poisoned.
Yes.
We're being poisoned.
So like a bit, like something Arturo has really ingrained in my head is like, bro, you have,
you cannot feed the darkness in any capacity, you know, and, and everybody's version of
(49:04):
feeding the darkness is different for some people that might be politicking for some
people that might be drinking alcohol, that might be masturbation, it might be anger, it
might be whatever it is.
Like we all have different versions of like our version of feeding the darkness.
(49:25):
And so, you know, that's like a big, an important point to make, like you have to align with
the light and then also not see the darkness because then you get confused and you see
a lot of this, I'm sure you guys see it like in this whole like quote unquote spiritual,
psychedelic community, like there's a lot of people very confused who have like one
foot in and one foot out, you know, and that's like a really like, that's like, that's like
(49:51):
a worse place to be than like all in on darkness or, or light, like it really like it's, it's
like a worse place to be, it's confusing, it's painful, and you're open to these dark
energies, manipulating you, sucking you dry, these like vampiric energies, right?
If you're not like all in on your devotion to, to truth and light and, and goodness.
(50:19):
Yeah, I found like through, through my, my whole journey that there is, there are so
many people out there that maybe even their intention is good, but it's still the same
thing, it's still more of just sucking things from, from you, you know, where it's, I've,
I've been through this, so therefore this is the way.
(50:40):
If you do it any other way, you're wrong.
This is it.
Just listen to me.
It's like, nobody can fix me.
I'm the only one can.
I can find advice.
I can find guidance.
I can find teachers, mentors, you know, but I'm the one that has to do the work, even
just listening to all the advice.
Like you said, like you get one foot in, one foot out, you know, talking about the Christ
(51:02):
consciousness.
That's one of the things that, that, that Jesus talked about was being lukewarm.
You know, like in the Bible, he said, I would rather spew you out of my mouth if you're
just lukewarm, having one foot in, one foot out.
Yeah.
You know, and for me, this is, it's so funny.
We keep talking about this darkness.
You know, the other day I was, you know, when we leave, we, we, we, we like treat our dog
(51:26):
better than we treated our kids.
Our kids are like, or like, dude, dog has more toys than we have.
You know, so when we leave, we, we leave like Disney movies on for, because, you know, like,
so she can have like some, some, some company.
And I was putting on, was it monsters university or something?
And, and I realized like, we always talk about our monsters and our demons, you know, and
(51:49):
we can have those demons and those demons can be something from like a Stephen King novel,
you know, but those same monsters can also be something from monsters, Inc.
You know, this cute cuddly thing.
Like, so one of my intentions, because I feel a block, I feel things in my head, but I don't
feel them in my heart.
What do we have?
(52:10):
Like something like 39,000 brain cells within our heart, you know, and I want to break through
that block.
And almost, and I don't know, maybe it's, it's wrong to think of it this way, but almost
like fall in love with the darkness to see it for what it is.
Like in physics, they talk about at the moment of creation, like the Big Bang, whatever you
(52:31):
want to like name it as, there was a release of matter and antimatter, you know, and if
it was a 50 50 split, the universe wouldn't exist.
It would cancel itself out.
You know, there was just a little bit more matter than the antimatter, you know, but
the antimatter is, is just as important because without it, again, the universe wouldn't exist.
(52:52):
Yeah.
And that's why you're coming in December, Keith.
I would see even in my, I was like, that block you're talking about that disconnect.
I mean, this medicine is going to blow that door open.
That's what, that was one of my big questions about that, you know, because we, and we talked
(53:15):
about this when we did that, the call where you're explaining it to me.
And you had mentioned like mushrooms help you.
I want, I want to say mushrooms like help you see, but it doesn't really kind of get
you to that point.
Well, what I said was, and, and I am a devotee of the mushroom.
(53:35):
Let's, let's not get it confused.
But, and this is a nuanced thing.
There's exceptions, but the way I've been wording it is mushrooms make you not asleep.
Yes.
Yes.
Ayahuasca awakens you.
Like there are levels to awakening, right?
(53:57):
Like it's one thing to like realize, okay, the pharmaceutical industry is fucked.
The food system is fucked.
Like I'm not my body, right?
Like these are all like, you're not asleep.
Right?
Like you're like seeing, but like this medicine, I can't even explain it.
Like words do zero justice.
(54:19):
Like it, it will, it, it, it, it cleans you.
Like it's like a, like, you know, like Arturo tells me, you know, he's like his, his teacher
tells him like, um,
there is no revolution.
(54:40):
There's no political change.
There's no nothing like that.
Art humanity will heal when every single person simply cleans their own heart.
Simply cleans their own heart that will remove all of the issues.
(55:00):
It's the cleaning of the individual heart.
And that is what this medicine specializes in, you know, in a way that, uh, listen, I
think you could go your whole life with just mushrooms and, and have a, and, and, and get
to a good place.
But the fact that this medicine exists and notice I'm saying this medicine, like ayahuasca
(55:25):
is amazing medicine, but like this one, I can't remember if it was the podcast I did
right before this, but did we?
I don't know if we touched on like the difference, but this, this ayahuasca that you're coming
to drink Keith is very special.
Like very, very, very special.
It, it.
(55:46):
Yeah.
Talked about a little bit where there's only the four people like in the world that, that
use this particular recipe.
Yeah.
Listen, I mean, there's hundreds of different ways to cook ayahuasca.
Like just for your, for your audience, quick rundown.
The ayahuasca brew, it's made with a combination of plants.
It's not just one plant.
So every pretty much everything in nature contains DMT, dimethyl tryptamine.
(56:11):
It's a neurotransmitter.
It's in our own brain, our own body, and it's in like every plant, some in higher concentrations
than others.
Right.
But if we were to just go pick the most DMT rich plant, like the Chakruna leaf, for example,
which is what they use in the Amazon, the Chakruna leaf, super rich.
It's like all DMT.
(56:32):
If we were to grab a bunch of those and eat them, absolutely nothing would happen because
we have an enzyme in our gut called a mono antioxidized inhibitor, which breaks down
the DMT instantly and doesn't allow us to have the experience of it.
But when it's combined with the ayahuasca vine, so ayahuasca is a vine and it's, it's
(56:52):
a scientific name is banisteriopsis capi.
And ayahuasca has a few different translations.
My favorite of which being the little death.
And so, so, so people call it the vine of souls, but I much prefer the little death.
That's like what the deep like tight shawmans, like that's what they know it as the little
(57:15):
death.
But anyway, so normally like in a, in a brew of ayahuasca, you have like the Chakruna leaf,
the ayahuasca vine, and maybe the shaman puts in like one or two other plants, right?
This brew here has like 14 different plants in it and it creates this crazy synergy and
(57:37):
these plants.
So it has like your classic ayahuasca plants, ayahuasca vine and everything, but it has
a bunch of these plants that the Maya shamans used in ceremony and for healing purposes in
it, blended in it.
And so our Turro's teacher taught it to him.
And so literally only a couple of people in the whole planet like actually make this or
(58:00):
know how to make it.
And it's very special and it's very different.
You know, like when I first drank it, I, I literally came there straight from Peru.
Like I was in Peru drinking with this like master dude from the middle of the jungle
been, been doing this for 45 years, got attacked and got, got his leg ripped off by an alligator
(58:23):
by a caiman when he was 12 and started drinking medicine and dieting from that day on.
And this guy's like in his sixties, right?
Master, right?
And I, but I got to just be real that ayahuasca and those experiences don't hold a candle
to what goes down at this, at our Turro's temple in the, not even fucking close.
(58:48):
Like, like, like there's so many differences, but like, for example, like the stuff in Peru
was black sludge, right?
And you drink it and like, yes, it's not that it's bad medicine, but like, for example,
like I would be sleeping before the ceremony even closed sometimes.
(59:09):
Like three hours in, I'm asleep.
This stuff, you don't sleep until noon the next day.
Like it literally awakens you in every way possible.
Like to where you're watching the sun come up, just getting flooded with wisdom and like
realizations and like, I mean, it is just, it is so special and so profound.
(59:33):
And so that's why I'm at the point where I'm like, there's no, there's no words left,
you know, like people, please just come here.
And experience it so we can clean our hearts and we can like move on because there's so
much pain and sickness amongst our people.
(59:55):
And we are the powerhouse of the world, America.
And we are the unexamined ego of the world.
We're like the 11 year old.
We're like, we're like, we're like the richest person on the planet that's 11 years old and
has like no humbleness at all.
Like that's America.
And we are seeping our poison, like the poisons in our own people are receiving the poison.
(01:00:21):
And then American poison is also being seeped all over the country.
I mean, I've been to remote villages in Laos, remote mountains in Mexico and the Americanization
is everywhere, but in more, in less concentration than others.
And so we're very blessed and I'm very grateful to Arturo and to Bernardino and to these
(01:00:42):
different shamans I work with into the communities and to their families for even allowing us
to come to their sacred land in Mexico and have these experiences.
Mexico to me is like the most sacred area on our entire planet.
And if Mexico falls, we are fucked like spiritually.
(01:01:03):
They are holding it together spiritually for like our entire planet.
You know, it's so, it's so funny, like I was just seeing there's like the travel advisories
to Mexico, like that constant of all the violence there, you know, all that sort of stuff.
But contrary, like it's kind of goes contradictory to what like what you're talking about though.
(01:01:28):
Like, I mean, just that spiritual.
Yes.
Holding it together spiritually.
Well, Keith, listen, bro, this is how this is the thing is the darkness.
This runs America.
And so they plot.
They don't want us going to make they want us to hate Mexico.
(01:01:48):
Mexico to what I've realized.
Mexico is the shadow of the US.
Everything that we're scared to look at with like how we started this podcast, all of that
work is represented in Mexico and in the people.
All of the everything that we're that we've pushed away within ourselves love family,
(01:02:13):
community, respect for the land, respect for our religion or our spiritual beliefs, whatever
it is, respect is the big one.
We have zero.
We don't respect ourselves.
We don't respect our ancestry, our land.
And so all of these values are alive.
(01:02:35):
Oh, and well in Mexico.
And don't get me wrong.
Like we were just talking about this on the podcast with Arturo year by year.
It's getting worse with the Americanization.
And by the way, just let me just like I love America and everything that the foundations
of this country was built on.
(01:02:55):
American people are the sweetest, very smart people, like very smart people.
The problem is we're being poisoned and confused, right?
But America's lovely people, but we've lost touch with our ancestry.
This is a massive issue.
Like like people in Asia that I've spent time with their Mexico, they know what 12 generations
(01:03:20):
ago we're doing.
Yep.
We don't know what two generations ago we're doing.
I asked like I asked my grandparents the other day, like where are your grandparents
from, I don't know, maybe Germany or something like, wow, like really?
You don't know.
You know, this like really, this like sticks out to me as like a major issue.
(01:03:41):
Because if you don't know where you come from, you don't know where you're going.
You don't know who you are.
You don't know what your people stood for.
What kind of, and it's not that you have to live in the past and you're in the, in like,
you know, in that, but it's like, you know, you could come from like this long, long,
long lineage of, of, you know, warriors or teachers or wizards, right?
(01:04:08):
And like you're pursuing some other path because societies told you that that's what you need
to do and you feel lost and confused.
When in reality, if you could just study, because we all know history repeats itself.
And if you could just study, okay, what were my grandfathers and their grandfathers, what
were they doing, maybe I can lean into that and I can find a lot of purpose and a lot
(01:04:33):
of success in, in these areas.
You know, my, my mother's, let's see, my grandmother married a guy named, I think his
name, John Rial.
I think I met him once, but Rial and Italian, they come from Southern Italy.
(01:04:56):
And my grandmother told me once that Rial, I don't know if it's like Italian or something
like with Sicily or something, but anyways, where they came from, the name means royalty.
So back generations ago, I could have been from like a Royal Italian family.
Right.
You know, and then today I see myself as worthless, you know, like what royalty have we ever seen
(01:05:20):
that walks around like, I suck.
I'm, I'm worth it.
You know, but yeah, I mean, the past gives us the foundation from which we can build
our future on.
And there was, I mean, this was the thing that started me on this journey.
And me and Mindy talked about it a lot, but this, this model for a rite of passage that,
that these anthropologists came up with in this, this one anthropologist, Victor Turner
(01:05:42):
said that when you start to see countries become more industrialized, you see them move
away from rites of passage, you know, that a lot of these, you know, other countries
that we would say third world, you know, the kids still go through these, these rite, rite
of passage models that, that they all have.
And he said, the more you do that, the more we're going to have a mental health crisis
(01:06:02):
in this country.
And look, and we, what, and, and from looking at history, we can understand that the sickness
that we have as Americans, this parasite, this American parasite, this like dominator,
conqueror, more bigger, I'm the best, I'm never wrong.
(01:06:23):
This, all of this was inherited from the Roman Empire.
Yeah, yeah.
They are the really like the forefathers of this disease, the Roman Empire.
And you see this, I don't know if you guys see it, but maybe it's in my age range.
Guys are like unconsciously obsessed with the Roman Empire, thinking that it was like
(01:06:47):
a good place to be.
Like the Roman Empire on earth.
Yeah.
99.999% of its population.
Hell on earth.
Very similar to what we're dealing with here.
And it's because the leaders were not rooted in any sort of spirituality.
All they cared about was control, which is what, I mean, they had, this is why they had
(01:07:11):
to kill Jesus.
Because the guy was just managing too much consciousness, he was awakening too many people
that not only was the only solution to kill him, but then to take all of his teachings
and pollute them, manipulate them, and make an entire religion not out of his teachings,
(01:07:33):
but out of his death.
Because if you can do that, if you can make, because his, his shit was so powerful, they
knew it was going to live on forever.
And so they're like, okay, we got to, we got to keep this, we got to control this somehow.
So think about it.
And this is like a sensitive thing that maybe is better reserved for in person conversations.
(01:07:55):
But I mean, what I just said there, like you take, you take this amazing phenomena, Jesus
Christ, right, and everything he stood for, which the first words of the Bible, let there
be light, right, everything he stood for, that is not taught in Christianity or church.
(01:08:19):
Very rarely do you even go to church and hear anything about the teachings.
It's all about the death.
And when you make it about the death, then you instill the lowest vibrations possible,
shame, guilt, sorry, fear.
(01:08:40):
You're Jesus died for you.
So now you have to be guilty and you have to fear hell.
And when you're in that vibration, you're so easy to manipulate and control.
You're so easy to manipulate.
And so that's what they did, right?
And we're living in like the shadow of that, you know, and that's why you see this mass
(01:09:06):
influx of Americans leading to Central and South America and like seeking shamanism and
seeking like real spiritual experiences because we're starving for it.
You know, it's been, it's been ripped from us.
It's been twisted like Jesus, this whole story, it's so sacred and like powerful and
(01:09:32):
real, but the way it's been presented to us is like disgusting, evil, demonic.
Yeah, it's funny because I'm one of the things that Jesus said is I am the vine.
Talking about like that DMT, the vine, you know, with the ayahuasca and it like, yeah.
Yeah, there's a lot to it with all of that.
(01:09:55):
And maybe that, you know, we, that's something else spend the rest of my life studying and
yeah, feeling into and we can maybe do another podcast, you know, next year all about this
or something, but yeah, yeah, I really appreciate you coming on today.
Such a good conversation.
I could just go forever.
I am interested in your retreats.
(01:10:21):
We could probably have a whole nother podcast on the fears and blocks that I have between
me and going, which could be an interesting conversation.
I've been trying to peer pressure Mindy and to come and like, you know, all the cool kids
are doing it, you know, but it worked so far.
I mean, I am a big like backpacker, traveler, you sleep on dirt.
(01:10:43):
So like none of that kind of stuff bothers me at all.
But I'll just say what my biggest fear is and we can leave it.
I am not ready to surrender to whatever I'm told to do.
Like there's still a piece of me that likes my life and likes my business and likes my
(01:11:08):
and knowing that if I'm told something and it imprints on my soul that that is now what
I go do and there's a part of my ego or self that's not ready to surrender yet.
And I don't know right now.
Right now, I guess I'm just sitting with that, right?
(01:11:30):
Like in my meditation is like, okay, you're here, buddy.
Like, but until we gain a better relationship, like we're 50 50 right now, right?
Like him controlling my life or this other piece of me.
And I think I need to be 51 he needs to be 49 for me to make a choice to actually pay
the money and go.
I don't know if that makes sense.
(01:11:51):
Am I describing that correctly?
Do you guys know what I'm saying?
Yeah, I get what you're saying.
And I think we should have a private conversation.
Okay, we will.
I'd appreciate that.
Yeah, we can we can arrange that in the in our little group chat there on Instagram.
Okay, yeah.
Perfect.
Well, I like this.
(01:12:11):
Thank you guys so much.
It's another great Friday morning conversation.
I just love our Friday mornings.
Oh, yeah, I mean, we're the best.
Besides soul, a jerk, subscribe to soul a jerk.
We're like, thank you.
Now, I think you guys have a great thing going on here.
I think your guys is I got to really feel and, you know, experience your guys's energy
(01:12:34):
and dynamic and I think an awesome thing going on here.
Just just keep doing it.
And I'm happy to come come back on anytime.
I appreciate it, man.
Thanks very much.
All right, guys, I'm going to turn off the recording.
Goodbye, everyone.
Thank you so much for joining us.
We are so grateful for all of our listeners.
(01:12:59):
Please support us in doing what we love.
It's as simple as hitting that like or subscribe button.
It would really mean a lot to us.
Thanks guys.
We'll see you next week.
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