May 9, 2024 • 78 mins
In the latest installment of the Chasing Thoughts podcast, hosts @MindyAmitaAisling and Keith, both certified life coaches, invite listeners into an intimate and transformative experience. Episode 18 unveils a unique offering: a live coaching session featuring Mindy herself.
Listeners are given a rare opportunity to witness the raw authenticity of personal growth as Mindy delves into her own struggles, paving the way for a candid exploration of barriers and breakthroughs. The episode promises not only insight into the hosts' journeys but also a firsthand encounter with the coaching process.
Mindy bravely confronts her resistance to socializing, a common hurdle for many individuals navigating personal development. As she opens up about her challenges in engaging with friends and embracing new experiences as Keith skillfully guides her through the intricacies of her thoughts and emotions. With empathy and expertise, Keith facilitates a profound dialogue, unraveling the layers of Mindy's resistance and illuminating pathways to transformation.
Together, they navigate the complexities of self-limiting beliefs, paving the way for profound insights and actionable strategies. Through their transparent exchange, Mindy and Keith invite listeners to witness the transformative power of coaching firsthand. As they navigate the twists and turns of Mindy's inner landscape, listeners are empowered to confront their own barriers and embark on their journey of personal growth. Tune in to Chasing Chasing Thoughts | S02 E18 for a riveting exploration of vulnerability, resilience, and the limitless potential of the human spirit.
Chapters:
00:01:18 - Start of Coaching Session, Mindy shares what she has been struggling with
00:06:25 - What is a tribe?
00:17:50 - What Keith loves about Coaching (putting together the puzzle)
00:19:12 - Mindy exploring her beliefs of "feminine" and "masculine".
00:22:40 - I don't know
00:47:22 - Mindy making a Birthday Party goal
01:00:00 - The Triad
➡️ Chasing Thoughts Podcast
Keith Dauch www.breakpointcoaching.org
Mindy Aisling www.mindyaisling.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to the Chasing Thoughts podcast.
(00:06):
Chasing Thoughts was founded by strangers, two life coaches who met on TikTok and shared
the desire to create a different kind of life coaching podcast.
Instead of talking about how to do it right, the Chasing Thoughts podcast explores embracing
our true essence to find a deeper sense of purpose and fulfillment.
Life coaches Keith and Mindy take a unique approach that transcends popular notions of
(00:31):
perpetual happiness and striving relentlessly to become one's ideal self.
Listen in as Mindy, Keith and their guests take a deep dive into their own minds and
souls to investigate the beauty of imperfection, challenge their beliefs, and embrace the richness
of living a truly authentic life.
Hi, my name is Keith and I'm a strategic interventionist and stoner-spirited life coach.
(00:58):
Hi, my name is Mindy and I am an authenticity empowerment coach.
Welcome to Chasing Thoughts.
Hi everybody, it is season 2 episode 18 and it is Keith and I here and today Keith
(01:20):
is going to give me a coaching session.
You guys heard me coach Keith a couple weeks ago, so other way around.
I said take off my jacket and I get ready to be vulnerable and all right, are you ready
for this Keith?
Yeah, it's definitely scary because in my head I'm like, all right, I got to be the
(01:45):
same type of coach as you, you know what I mean?
Like I'm different, so it's just embracing who I am and just letting it flow, trusting
that I'm not an idiot.
Okay, so let me tell you what I've really been struggling with.
(02:12):
I don't, I don't even know if I'm saying this right.
So the first thing I'd say is I don't feel like I have enough time in my life for all
the things I want, but then I'll say no, I actually want to just stay home alone all
the time, writing, doing my gardening, hanging out with my husband.
(02:35):
I like it when people stop by my house, but then there's this, I know that the research
shows that deep relationships and friendships and people are how to make life meaningful
for humans.
I believe in tribes, I believe in villages, and yet, like there's a women's group that
(02:58):
happens every month that I don't go to because at 5 36 o'clock at night, I don't want to
leave my house.
And I think about there is this woman who asked me to do dance classes or asked me to
do a yoga class, and I'm really struggling between just doing what I want, which is like
not going anywhere doing anything.
(03:20):
And I don't mean that like I sit home and my pajamas watching TV, I'm reading, I'm researching,
I'm doing my introverted and stuff, right?
And so I live and I have lived in this world probably for the last year or two where I
don't do the things out there, and then I beat myself up for not doing the things.
(03:43):
And so I'm not sure if I'm out of alignment and need to bring in discipline to force myself
to do these things to be the full, well rounded individual with a meaningful life that I want
to be.
Or if I just stop frigging beating myself up and do the things that bring me joy that
(04:03):
are right in front of me, but what I'm doing right now standing on the fence is painful.
So I want to get off the fence, but I don't know which way I want to go.
When you, when you think of that stuff, when you think about going to like the women's
(04:24):
the women's meeting and doing like the dancing and stuff, what's the story that you're telling
yourself?
That I'd have more fun at home doing a craft at my table or reading my book or like why
would I, why would I choose sort of a second tier entertainment when I got first tier
(04:47):
entertainment right here at home?
And then what's the story of the guilt?
Notice that a happy, well rounded person that feels safe in the world has a tribe or a village
or people that people are important for people.
(05:12):
And so I need to cultivate that with intention.
And there are people out there who I know who I genuinely love and I want to be more
like them and they have things they could teach me.
And right, I'm not, I, the problem isn't that I haven't identified the right people.
(05:33):
The problem is just getting out of my own introvertedness.
And you know, I said that I'd probably been struggling with this for like two years.
I think for the first year, year and a half, I was saying to myself, I'm just recovering
from burnout because I had that huge, like couple years of burnout when I was executive
(05:53):
director.
So I'm like, this is appropriate for me to just be paving in, staying home, just honoring
myself, healing my nervous system.
But now that that is done, it's like I'm addicted to it and I'm addicted to this calm feeling
that I have when I stay home, when I meditate, when I work in my garden, and then I go run
(06:16):
errands and I go to Costco and I go meet with friends and that calm is disrupted.
So you start to feel like when you, when you leave the house, you start to feel like this
anxiety coming up or like this overwhelming kind of feeling.
(06:39):
I think it's that I have learned and taught myself how to easily access and retain presence
and peace within my own four walls.
And it just is yummy.
(06:59):
But I don't know how to hold that space when I'm at Costco or when I am at a women's group
with 10 women all talking.
And to you, what is, what is a tribe?
How many people do you need in a tribe for it to be a tribe?
(07:24):
I don't know.
See, this is another question that I've had for myself is, I guess there's still this
underlying pressure or thought that I have to do this right.
And what is the right amount of friendships to have to be a good human?
(07:47):
What is the right amount of times per week to see my dad?
And what is the right amount of time per week to see my grown son who doesn't live with
me?
And what is the right, I'm always worried that I'm either overwhelming people with too
much contact or that I'm not showing up for people.
But there's never a time where I feel like I'm just doing it right.
(08:09):
I'm always in a struggle with my relationships of being too much or not enough.
And then when you get in your house, that's where you have that piece because you know
exactly because you decide what you're going to do, whether you're going to dig up your
(08:32):
whole front yard and bring in truckloads of dirt or research or stuff for social media.
Like that's where you rule.
So it seems like when you're in the house, you're living for yourself.
And then when you go out of the house, that's where the script flips and you're living through
(08:59):
the perceptions of others.
You know, what is the right amount of friends?
Now it might not be like the perception of this person, but you know, that question of
what is the right amount of friends?
That's a question for us to answer.
Right.
But when we're constantly freaking out about the, you know, what is it?
(09:21):
Like what's that number?
We're almost like outsourcing the answer to somewhere out there that that's the right
answer out there.
And I have to find out what that is.
So you're no longer living for self.
So yeah, you can't be in alignment like that.
Yeah.
(09:41):
But I still don't know how to find that answer, right?
Because I don't have clarity on what is my introvertedness, what is my fear of showing
up and what is possibly just sort of resistance or laziness or, right, inertia not happening.
(10:11):
I will say that thing about always feeling like I'm too much or not enough definitely
keeps me withdrawn from people because I never leave a social situation, whether it's a walk
with a friend or a party going, oh, I nailed that.
(10:35):
Like I never feel that way. I always leave social situations with a thought of like,
ugh, I overshared or like, ugh, I didn't say anything that I thought, right?
Like I didn't share my real self.
And it's a struggle for me.
(10:59):
So do you think like going that whole thing with going out kind of all funnels down to
that thing of I don't socially, I don't know what to do.
I don't know what's over the line with sharing or like that type of thing.
And then that's where a lot of that comes up.
(11:19):
So if you went to that women's group, would you have 10 women that are like, who is this
freaky lady that came in here and just dominates everything and overshares and?
I think that's what I'm afraid of is either being that person because I've been given
(11:41):
that feedback a lot.
Like I've shared with you where people are like, whoa, right?
Like I'm a Hummer.
I'm a bulldozer.
I have a tendency to go big.
That makes people feel uncomfortable or I've gotten feedback to that.
And I've also been in social situations with like a group of people like four or five times
(12:05):
and then had somebody like not even remember me and forget my name because I'm not showing
up at all and I'm like a wallflower.
So both are true.
It's like a doctor Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, but with my own personality, right?
There's these two ways that I show up and yeah, I just struggle with it.
(12:30):
And I think that that's part of it around the house because I always say that I have
my introvert bubble, right?
And then I tell my husband like, I've made you a part of my bubble so that I can feel
comfortable with you in my house and my son is part of my bubble because he and I don't
know if it's just something like that or if those people I have finally, because I don't
(12:56):
I don't worry with them about who I am or am I too much or too little, right?
Because they're in my bubble.
They're in my comfort space.
So then I ask myself the question, well, how would I make other people in my comfort space?
I don't effing know.
Dude, I remember watching an episode of Roman Empire on Netflix and I forget the emperor's
(13:24):
name, but he became so paranoid that he exiled himself to Cyprus and he had this palace there.
It was all about pleasure.
Like there was women, men, like food, drink, everything.
And it made me realize that our comfort zone, and we've talked about like comfort zones
(13:45):
a lot, especially on the podcast.
And our comfort zones can be like feel like a prison to us and be very uncomfortable,
but we stay in that pain because the pain of stepping out is a lot.
And what it made me realize is our comfort zone can be a palace.
(14:06):
Yeah.
It can be like a place we don't want to leave, but it's still a prison that that fear
is keeping us in there.
So it seems like you've kind of cultivated this beautiful comfort zone where you have
everything that you need and you can study and you can build your business, build your
(14:29):
other business.
You have your husband, your kid, like, but it's still a prison because as soon as you
step out, you lose that comfort.
Yeah.
So can you, can you give me like, what's an example?
If you don't mind sharing this of when you were given that, that feedback that you like
(14:52):
came in too strong, bulldozed, like, does any like specific story come to mind like
this was like seriously bad or whatever?
I've gotten that feedback professionally a lot, like from upper management when I was
middle management type of things, right?
Where they're like, whoa, like tone it down.
(15:13):
Um, I've gotten that feedback certainly as a kid, right?
That sort of like calm down, you know, like contain yourself.
Who's giving you that feedback as a kid?
My mom.
I have a tendency when I get excited to talk faster and faster and louder and louder.
(15:39):
And I've been given that feedback to quiet my voice a lot.
Um, I've had some relationships and this is related, but not exactly the same.
So I have a very, what I would say male thinking brain, like I can hang out with guys and feel
(16:03):
very comfortable.
Our brains work the same way.
My thoughts are more traditionally like male thinking.
And I've had two different boyfriends break up with me because of that.
They said that I wasn't feminine enough that, uh, it's too masculine.
And so that kind of goes with that same like big energy, right?
(16:24):
Like it's very masculine energy.
And now that I'm trying to do like these women's circles and develop more of my feminine side,
there are a lot of times when I don't agree with group think for women.
And I have not said anything yet because that's like supposed to be my female tribe.
(16:44):
And I could really disrupt things with an unpopular opinion.
Right?
Like, what's one of those opinions like that, that you just don't agree with?
Well, it could be something like I had one the other day where someone in the group was
sharing that, um, like they were going to give their kid a job for them and then they
(17:06):
were going to keep their kid at home.
And it was sort of what I would consider like cuddling behavior.
But all the other moms were like, Oh, that's so good.
Oh, how precious that you have that time together.
They were all moming.
And I didn't feel that way.
And I'm on popular anyways.
(17:27):
Like, you know, when my son was 18, I'm like, out.
You know, find your life, which is not a popular way for a mom to be in today's world.
And um, yeah, I have this like suspicion that whatever this is, this big masculine overbearing
(17:49):
energy that I'm so afraid of is part of the key to my future success.
But because I didn't know how, I feel like it's like a sword and I didn't know how to
like use it when I was using it before.
And so I'm like, Oh, put this thing away and lock it up forever.
And now I'm like, okay, I can get this out, but I need to understand it and know how to
(18:16):
use it so I don't like, bolt people over or go too big or come off as unattractive with
my messaging.
I know I'm all over right now, but that's because I don't understand this either.
Right.
Yeah, no.
And it's cool.
And this is what I love about coaching so much because I'm kind of like reaching and
(18:41):
being like, okay, here's a puzzle piece.
Here's a puzzle piece.
Here's a puzzle piece together.
And one of the pieces that I'm seeing is your belief systems.
When it comes to feminine and masculine, your belief systems are not yours.
They have not been created by you.
(19:02):
They've been, which all of our belief systems initially are given to us, you know, starts
with our parents, teachers, boyfriends, like all this stuff professionally colleagues.
And so like when it comes to that, you've been told that you're too loud, you know, you're
(19:26):
just too much energy and all this stuff from, you know, your mom, boyfriend's breaking up
with you because you're too masculine and stuff.
So to you, what is feminine and what is masculine?
Good question.
And also thank you for recognizing my beliefs.
And I just want to say I agree that it's fascinating when you just hear someone talk and you're
(19:50):
just the listener, how you can start to pick out the threads that I don't hear, right?
That's the power of this kind of conversation.
Yeah.
Okay.
Um, masculine and feminine, what is that to me?
Um, I think I actually have some negative thoughts about femininity, femininity being
(20:21):
like female.
And maybe that's why I avoid it.
I'm not sure.
As we mentioned before we were starting my whole life, all my role models have been male.
Right?
I'm a writer, right?
Leaders, like, and I think that that could be just because traditionally in the past females
(20:46):
couldn't take the roles that I'm attracted to.
But I've never in my life really had a strong female where I said, that's what I want to
be like, right?
I'm more attracted to masculine energy.
Sometimes I even wonder if I was born into today's world, would I try on like a gender
(21:06):
change or gender experimentation?
Because that wasn't even available when we were kids.
But I feel so, um, unusual.
I don't know how to describe it.
Um, I think that I feel like I don't like the limitations that I think females have.
(21:36):
I don't like, uh, how emotional and out of context females get.
See, I'm telling you my belief system.
So I believe femininity is out of context, over emotional.
Like, look at how many bad things I've seen.
(21:57):
Oh my gosh, I'm embarrassed of my own thoughts.
Yeah, I guess I've always been attracted to being more logical and in control of my own
emotions and to me those are kind of like masculine traits.
(22:20):
But for someone else, those could not be masculine traits, right?
How interesting.
Yeah.
I feel like, and I'm not sure about this one, but I want to mention it because it is something
that I'm struggling with.
(22:41):
How I show up physically is a larger part of the equation than I believe it would be
for a male.
And that is a piece that I haven't really figured out.
I don't know if I am pleased by that or frustrated by it, but you know how many like weird, quirky
(23:04):
old guys there are doing cool stuff, whether it's the guy at the bar playing the guitar
or the guy on social media doing this or that.
There's not a lot of weird, quirky old ladies that are like nailing it because most women
in our culture after 50 are invisible, right?
And so that comes up for me.
(23:27):
So I mean, what I wanted to say to you is I don't know, but I know that's not a good
answer.
Oh, it's a beautiful answer.
This is my mess of thoughts.
Yes.
That is a beautiful, beautiful answer because as soon as you say, I don't know, you open
yourself up.
I mean, that is vulnerability, right?
(23:49):
Like when we take on like, no, no, no, I know.
I know.
You know, like that whole type thing.
It's that like strict unbending control, especially when you don't have a freaking clue of what
you're talking about.
You know, like Sad Guru talks about like the three greatest words in the English language
(24:09):
are I don't know.
So that I applaud you for that.
You're not making up bullshit.
You're just saying, I don't know.
But it's so cool because like you want you were told you're too masculine through so
(24:30):
many things and you want to be feminine.
But the rules that you have for femininity are I got to become overly emotional.
I have to cry about a cat video and all this stuff and like lose control of my emotions
and not think logically.
And I, I mean, we're both in our forties, right?
(24:54):
So pretty soon you got to disappear.
Your life ends before you die because you're a woman.
So those are the rules and the belief systems that you have for the person that you want
to become.
Who would want to become that?
Yeah.
So, you know, when you like see a group of girls and they're all like screaming and stuff.
(25:17):
I've never done that in my life.
I never want to do that in my life.
Like, do you see how I have like an aversion?
But I don't know why I have an aversion to that.
Right.
I don't know if that's just my personality and my nature that I don't scream and jump
up and down.
Or is it something that I've been avoiding because of some weird thing that happened to
(25:38):
me and my childhood?
Right.
I don't know if I should try to break through it or if I should just embrace what feels
more natural to me for the audience who is listening.
Keith is just giving me the eye right now.
But I could that was such a beautiful thing.
(25:59):
I don't know if I should.
Basically you're saying I don't know if I should take on a character and play a role
that doesn't feel real to me or be real to myself.
So you do know that answer.
Yeah, it's weird though.
There's like this voice in my head that says, well, because all women should be like that,
(26:24):
like should scream when they see each other and hug each other.
There must be something that happened to you that made you not like that because you're
supposed to be like that.
Yes.
And I'm like, oh my God, I better go back to my childhood and see what f me up.
Right.
And you're right.
What's wrong, my beliefs are about what it means to be a woman.
(26:46):
And you're 100% right.
Something happened to you at some point where the thing of like, oh, I just bought a new
purse.
Like that stuff does not resonate with you.
You're just like, oh my God, something happened to you.
There's experiences that you had that made Mindy.
(27:06):
And then those other women that do that, there's experiences that they had that taught them
to do that.
So you've had different experiences, which we've all had, but you've always refused to
take on the role of a character.
And you always, even in the midst of like it causing suffering saying, I'm going to
(27:31):
be me.
And then you're looking at the rules that society has for us, the rules that you were
given from a young kid, you're being too loud, you're being too masculine, but again, whatever
the hell that means, you know, boyfriends, you're not feminine enough, you know, but
(27:51):
even though now you're married to a great guy, you've done so much.
I mean, you look at Olympic athletes that are women, you know, gymnasts, like I've never
looked at a gymnast be like, wow, so masculine, you know, they're always so feminine stuff,
but they are the strongest people.
(28:13):
Rhonda Rousey, you know, like this UFC fighter that can whoop my ass like with both of her
hands tied behind her back, very feminine, you know, so the first thing like is, is,
is sort of breaking away from society's definition of what you an individual need to be.
(28:37):
Yeah.
And I'll also say that this is probably why I'm so attracted to so many thought leaders
right now that are advocating for getting rid of like a gender identity or recognizing that
gender's fluid or getting rid of ideas of what masculinity and femininity is like that
(29:02):
whole movement, I'm way behind because I can relate to it.
And the other thing when you were talking, one of the things I love that you just said
was, yes, of course, it's because something happened to you, but that doesn't mean that
it's not authentic or true.
Right.
(29:23):
Right.
So if something happened to me to make me into this, now that I'm aware of it, I get
to be a choice if I want to continue being that or not continue being that, right?
Yes.
So I wasn't thinking about it that way.
So would it be safe to say like you're becoming aware that a lot of the belief systems that
(29:44):
you have for femininity are belief systems that have been given to you instead of ones
that you've created for yourself?
I think so.
And what I thought of when you were talking when you said that was I was raised by a single
mom with my sister.
So all female household, there were no males in my life growing up.
(30:09):
And so that could be number one, why I crave that energy or more attracted to it.
But I also thought, and this is a weird thing to say, like as a little girl, I sort of played
what would be more traditional male role and male thinking in my house with my mom and
(30:30):
my sister.
Right.
Like they're both more magical thinking, like feeling thinking.
And I'm just not built that way.
And so like I have this, you know, we were always super poor.
And I remember, God, I had to be in like second graders and my mom wanted to go out and buy
(30:51):
like a new dish set and like towels with little ducks on them and a little duck cookie holder,
you know, like a set of things.
And I was like, we can't do this.
We don't have the money.
Like show me your checkbook.
Like you don't have that money to buy this, right?
And I was always frustrated with the choices my mom made and the way my mom behaved.
(31:15):
And she dated all these different guys when I was growing up.
And she, right.
Like she played a very classic female role and I hated it.
Beautiful.
So you saw your mom playing the role, going through all these guys, not really like taking
care of the finances, so it came down to you to be the logical, to take on the masculine
(31:41):
energy in your family's relationship.
Yeah.
That would say that's probably very true.
So what is, what is, so we know, we know for you, for your belief systems, feminine, femininity
is a lot of bullshit.
Right.
(32:02):
I don't see the strength in it yet.
I don't think.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
What's masculinity?
Strong.
Strength.
Certainly.
Strength, logic, steadfastness, reason.
(32:31):
Those are the top ones that come to my mind.
And those are things that you see in yourself.
Yes.
That's what I'd say.
So you have this, like the whole dichotomy of masculine versus feminine energy.
And you, and you want to open up more to the feminine side.
(32:58):
That you have rules, you have beliefs that were experiences that you've, that, and that's,
that's what kind of builds our belief system or experiences, what we're told, all that
stuff that femininity is weakness.
There's no strength there.
There's no logic.
It's magical thinking.
It's unicorns and rainbows and all that all the time.
(33:19):
It's spending money that you don't have for pretty little ducks and all this stuff.
And then you have masculine, which is strong, steadfastness, logic, reason.
So if you go just to the pain versus pleasure principle of the brain, everything in your
(33:39):
brain is going to force you away from, from femininity and towards masculinity, right?
Because femininity is painful.
And the masculine side is, is, is the pleasurable side.
It's the side that you need to be.
Yeah.
I'm certainly judging the femininity side, right?
(34:02):
There's a lot of, yeah, I recognize that.
And I also recognize that judgment is always a red flag, right?
Like I just know that to be true.
So I know I have something going on because I have strong judgment of self and other on
this topic.
Yeah.
All right.
So, wait, let me add one more thing.
I have this past and then I have my present.
(34:25):
And then when I look out in the world for female role models, there's no one I see that I want
to be like.
So I'm like trapped.
I forget what this thing is called, but I did it yesterday.
So we keep, we keep, you know, a Kong for a dog.
Yeah.
(34:46):
We fill it with peanut butter.
Yeah.
And we put it in the freezer.
And so when we have dinner, we give the Kong to Zoe.
And it's always in the left-hand side of the freezer, always.
And Sandy did them up and she put them in the right-hand side.
(35:07):
So I looked at it and I'm like, there's no Kongs, right?
She was working some overtime and stuff.
So I'm like, what do I do now?
You know, like she's never Kong, you know?
So I texted Sandy just to see if she was free.
And I was like, I might be missing it, but it doesn't seem like there's any Kongs in
the freezer.
In my head, what I was really saying was, you idiot, you forgot to do what you were supposed
(35:31):
to do.
And now like Zoe's going to suffer, right?
And I looked everywhere.
I was moving things around.
They weren't in there.
She goes, should be on the right-hand side, right above the chicken.
They were right there.
And it was like magic.
It was like they suddenly appeared, right?
(35:51):
So my question for you is, do you think that there is no good feminine role models?
Or do you have a belief system that they don't really exist so you can't find them?
So because you're telling yourself the story of I can't find them.
Yeah.
Beautifully said.
And yes, I'm guessing that is the case.
(36:16):
I do recognize that there is a certain gift or power of being female that I don't know,
that I would like to know, and that there's a certain blending that will help me ground,
right?
Like I know that I need to work on this to become the future self that I want to be,
(36:40):
right?
There is some inkling in there that I need to find the good of really being a female.
But that being said, I guess I would say I don't know how to go about it in an authentic
(37:00):
way, because everywhere where I touch females, whether it's women's group or this person
on social media or this, I immediately go into, oh, I need to act like they're acting,
and then it's the role, right?
And so I'm not sure how to investigate this and make it my own in an authentic way where
(37:24):
I don't step into playing a character.
Well, I'm glad you reached out to me for this, because I know exactly how to do it.
I went to a Sunday school class once, and this was back when we were in church, and
(37:46):
they were going through how men receive love, how women receive love, and all that stuff.
And everything he ticked off for women, I was like, yeah, I do that, I do that, I do
that, I do that.
And everything he ticked off for men, it was Sandy.
And so I raised my hand, and I was like, should I start questioning something, which
did not go well in a Baptist church?
(38:08):
But I thought it was funny.
And Sandy's very, very similar.
When her brother died, people were bringing her flowers and stuff, and I bought her a
skill saw that had this laser thing on it, where she can just, and she was like, that
was the greatest gift I've ever gotten.
She just loves to do that stuff.
But she's also incredibly feminine.
(38:32):
So the first step in that is becoming aware that the beliefs that you have for femininity
are not yours.
They're yours by the experience and the meaning that you gave them seeing as you're growing
up with your mom, having to be that strong, logical, reasonable person as a kid, seeing
(39:01):
the groups that you want to be a part of, but they're all doing and acting in the same
way and thinking, I have to act that.
So the first step is understanding that those beliefs were given to you.
And they don't align with you, so you know they're bullshit.
So what do you believe femininity should be?
(39:25):
If you can clear your mind of society, so right now in the cosmos, it's just Mindy and
me, what is being feminine me?
All right, hold on.
I'm thinking about that.
So let me think about that.
(39:51):
I would say flexibility, but what I picture in my mind when I say that is like bamboo
or something, right?
Like flexibility, flexible strength, I guess is what I'm saying, right?
Flexible strength.
I want to say the word acceptance, but I want to put like a little asterisk next to it since
(40:14):
there's so many weird ideas out there about how females should be accepting, right?
But acceptance as a power move, right?
Like radical acceptance.
See like a container that holds appreciation for beauty and maybe more of the more subtle
(40:48):
hidden aspects of life and nature.
There is a fierce love that women have and particularly mothers, right, that you see come
out that is very beautiful.
I can acknowledge that.
(41:17):
I'm not sure how play really shows up for females.
I think I have an aversion to that that I can't see around wisdom.
I guess I believe that once upon a time women held like a position of wisdom in tribes and
(41:42):
whatnot, which I still believe in, but I don't think is reflected or accepted in our culture.
So I'm like, oh, I can be the wise woman on my couch, but it's not accepted in the world.
(42:10):
Presence maybe would be.
I think sometimes women can hold space in ways that I haven't seen men do.
So those are some positives that I see.
Now generally, like if you like if you had found me like, I need a co-op so we don't
(42:37):
really know each other.
Like these would be interesting, but knowing you, I think the majority of these describe
exactly who you are.
The acceptance, like I was always nervous about like putting something up and like,
(43:00):
oh, I didn't put up a post today and you're like, dude, it's going to happen when it happens.
You know, the, well, I can't even read and I handwriting what I put here.
Oh, the container that holds appreciation for beauty.
Like you are all about the beauty of nature, all of the pictures that you put up.
(43:24):
First off, the strength that you have for mountaineering, before your accident, right?
The pictures that you put up, the scenery that you can put up, you notice all the beauty
in the world, fierce love.
I've seen people say horrible things to you and you respond with kindness and compassion,
(43:49):
you know, which is love, you know, you show love to people that show you disrespect.
Wisdom, you're incredibly wise.
And it made me think of like elephants, right?
Not calling you an elephant, but you know, like the matriarch and there's a lot of cultures
(44:10):
that are built off the matriarch that the wisdom of the culture has passed down from
woman to woman to woman.
Presence, like that is, that is like the one word I would describe for you.
The one that I would be like was the flexibility.
(44:33):
But I think that comes from you like wanting to be that flexibility, but that belief of
I have to be this way.
Because when you have to be that way, that's stiff, you know, but who you really want to
be is that bamboo is amazing dude.
Like in the U.S., like we have all the scaffolding that is made from like metal and wood and
(44:58):
stuff.
And then you go like to the Asian countries and like they have this scaffolding that's
swaying, but it's so much stronger than the stuff that we have that's made from bamboo.
You know, I mean trees, like they can, the trees and the swamps and stuff, I forget the
cypress trees can withstand winds that are like over 150 miles an hour because they are
(45:20):
so flexible and their root systems and stuff like that.
So yeah, so I want to try something with you because you had you said that thing about
play and you're like, I just, I just don't know.
So I want, I want you to try to answer without thinking, which, which I know like when you
(45:41):
like to think about the answer, so I'm going to ask like a bunch of questions, right?
So what's your name?
Mindy, what do you do?
I have a life coach.
Are you a mother?
Yes.
What does your husband do?
He's a chemist.
Do you like the chasing thoughts podcast?
(46:02):
Very much.
Who is your favorite co-host?
Keith.
What does play mean to you?
Fun, but what is that?
Right?
Maybe what is that?
(46:26):
Yeah, I guess I get, I think I get caught up because in our world or maybe in my past,
my belief system, my belief system has something that says extroverts are better people than
introverts.
And I think our culture supports that.
(46:47):
So if I go to the, actually, I'll give an example.
There was this one time when we were in a group of friends when bowling, right?
And I sat at the bar and read a book.
I was reading on the road by Jack Kerouac at the time.
And I had the most fun and people came over and said hi to me or whatever, you know, and
(47:10):
this and that, but I wasn't part of the group.
And I went, well, I'm scared to write this.
And to me, sitting at the bar reading my book was fun.
But I struggle because I feel like my definition of fun, like most people who are there probably
(47:31):
thought like, what's wrong with Mindy?
Like, oh, she's sitting out.
Oh, she's not hanging out with us.
Right?
Like there's a.
Who told you that?
And there's often awkwardness in my social situations.
Did someone come up and tell you that this is awkward because you're just sitting here?
Or is that what you told yourself they were thinking?
(47:52):
Yeah, it's probably what I told myself they were thinking.
Right?
I think this is such a great timing because we didn't really plan on this coaching session.
This was like spur of the moment.
But I turned 45 tomorrow.
(48:14):
And a big birthday party planned and everybody's going to come over at noon in some sort of
costume or silly get up.
Play, play croquet at the park.
Then we're going to come back here and barbecue.
Have a couple drinks, whatever.
(48:35):
And all week I've been thinking about usually coming up to my birthday.
I do a lot of like journaling and processing because I'm like, who am I becoming?
What is this next evolution of self?
Who am I going to be at 45?
And I've just been thinking, all right, on my birthday, I'm just going to show up like
not contained, not self-motivating.
(48:59):
Yes.
And then there's another side of like when I've been telling myself that the other voice
has been like, whoa, I don't know if we should go there.
Yeah.
Right.
So it's really interesting that we had this conversation about like fitting in where I
feel awkward and all this stuff with this thing happening tomorrow.
(49:21):
It's like perfect timing.
But yeah, I worry about offending people with who I am.
I'm worried about my beliefs offending people or my opinions offending people.
I'm worried about, yeah, being too loud, too big, too weird, all of it, right?
(49:47):
Worry about being vulnerable.
Yeah.
So my little book on stuff like what do you call it?
Like social posts I wanted to do, like this quote from Brene Brown.
Vulnerability is the core of shame and fear and our struggle for worthiness, right?
(50:12):
Which is everything your mind is, you're like, I'm going to go and I'm going to be like off
the hook.
Like there's going to be, I'm just going to be absolutely me as weird, as freaky as
whatever I want to be.
And then your brain is like, what the hell are you thinking?
You know, again, because it's got to keep us safe, right?
So vulnerability is the core of shame and fear and our struggle for worthiness.
(50:36):
But it's also the birthplace of joy, of creativity and get this, of belonging and of love.
So true belonging is on the side of vulnerability that we don't want to walk through.
(51:00):
And all of this started off with like the women's group having your tribe.
So if you want that tribe, don't adhere to a character that you're supposed to play.
Add you, because I mean, the tribe doesn't need another character.
It doesn't need another, yay, I got new shoes.
(51:22):
It doesn't need the weak femininity of your belief system.
It needs you.
Yeah, it's interesting when you read that quote in my brain, my brain is like, fuck,
yeah, that's it.
(51:43):
That's so true.
Yes, I can feel the truth in that statement, right?
Like truth has a feeling sometimes, right?
You can like feel it.
And then like in my gut, like somewhere between my chest and my gut, it's like, hell no, F
you.
(52:05):
So we talk about like, you know, the three ways to know something like logically in your
heart and in your body, like my, I guess this is my chance to pull that from my mind into
my body, right, and act from that knowing.
But I feel like I almost have to like sort of show up for my nervous system.
(52:32):
And I know that it sounds kind of weird, but when I think about like, okay, what would
it take for me to go balls out tomorrow?
And I'm like, all right, I'm going to have to be like, all right, nervous system, we're
okay.
That's cool.
We're fine.
Yep, we're going to do this, right?
Like I have to sort of be there for myself leading up to, and I don't know, maybe during
(52:56):
the process, but I can't, it would be inauthentic for me to pretend that my nervous system was
okay with this idea.
Oh, yeah.
My nervous system is not on board.
Dude, tomorrow you are going to be like, I'm doing this.
(53:17):
I got this.
And then the closer guests of that time, you're going to be like, oh my God, I just want to
crawl in a hole, right?
But if you step through it, if you step through it, there is going to be, there's going to
come at the point of like a release.
Yeah.
And then you're just going to be you.
(53:38):
Yeah, I like that.
All the beauty of everything that you bring, of everything that you are, is just going to
be there on full display for everybody to see.
Yeah.
And I wanted breakfast, I guess.
(54:02):
Like of course I myself with friends, but I'm talking about like the next level.
Like we have a group of friends who is great.
The group of couples that's great.
We have like a social life, but I am contained in it.
Right?
Yeah, but now think that I wanted to get rid of and explore it.
(54:23):
Why am I controlling myself?
Right?
Because that's what I'm doing.
I'm containing and controlling and moderating myself.
And that's the piece that I don't think I need anymore.
It's not, it's not making me feel good to do that anymore.
Yeah.
And then it was funny too, because like at the beginning you said you're contained in
(54:43):
your four walls.
And now you're saying, okay, I'm in can containing my four walls, but then I also got my friends.
Well, yeah, I think it's like in my four walls, I feel like I can come out of my body.
Right?
But when I leave my four walls, I am deep inside this skin.
(55:06):
What about with your friends too?
I would say I'm still inside my skin because I'm still like, this is so judgmental, but
like people are weird, right?
Like they have a lot of judgments like, oh, she talked to my husband too much.
(55:29):
Oh, she was flirting over here.
Oh, she did this.
Oh, she did that.
Oh, she thought she was like judgment, judgment, judgment, judgment.
And I get logically that that's not my business and I can't control it.
But yeah, I'm also scared of offending people or doing something wrong or that.
(55:52):
Yeah.
Cause you learned, you learned as, as, as a kid that you were responsible for the emotional
like well-being of, of the family.
So the family could be the emotional, the unicorns and rainbows and you had to, to reel
it in.
So now when you go out and you're like talking to one of your friends, husbands, now you're
(56:13):
in your head being like, is this too much?
Is she going to think I'm flirting?
Is she going to write?
So you're living through the perception of your friends thoughts that you're making up
in your own head.
Yes.
Instead of.
Yeah.
Yeah, good comparison and I, I hadn't seen that previously, but you're right because
(56:36):
the other day I told my husband something like, I hope I don't screw up our whole friend
circle by joining this other like smaller women's group of our bigger friends.
Like that if I didn't hold it together, I could ruin the whole thing, which is similar
to like my childhood experience.
Right? if I don't hold it together, this whole thing is going to fall apart.
(57:01):
Kind of like narcissistic, but.
Well, yeah.
And it's a way to protect yourself.
You're trying to protect yourself.
You're trying to protect your friend.
And so it is a, it's a very, um, uh, my mind takes a left on me.
It's, it's.
It shows how good you are.
You know what I mean?
(57:22):
That you're trying to protect your friends.
You're trying to protect your friends ships, but a lot of times we try to protect things
that don't need the protection.
Yeah.
And when you said that, not only didn't ring is true, but my thought was, do I honestly
believe that I need to protect people from me?
(57:44):
Cause if that's true, that's a big thought.
Right?
Like is that what's happening for me right now?
And there is a little bit of that.
That's a core.
That's a core thought that was beautiful to unveil.
(58:05):
And would that mean that there's parts of you that you don't like?
No, I think it's more that.
I feel like, you know, this is part of being human, I guess, but that I'm unintentionally
(58:36):
hurt so many people or unintentionally got results that I didn't think I was going to
get.
Right?
So by monitoring myself or keeping myself contained, I'm less likely to get results
that I don't anticipate.
(58:57):
So you're, you're trying to control future expectations.
Yeah.
I would say that's true.
I hate that.
I do that with everything and I hate that with all of my being.
Well, yeah, cause how, I mean, what, the way I want to live is the way I feel when I'm
(59:18):
gardening, which is not thinking about who I am or what I'm doing or how I am being or
anything else, right?
Just to be present.
And I think, you know, this is the human experience, certainly in why we all do drugs
or we love sex or skiing or things that bring us into the present moment.
Right?
But, um, yeah, this has been a really useful conversation because I never, I never thought
(59:46):
about how it was connected to my childhood and I never really sat with that idea.
Like that's something I'm going to have to say with that idea that am I protecting people
from me?
Because there's something, there's a, there's a nugget in there for me that I need to sit
with because in some way I am, and I don't know if I'm protecting, it's like, there's
(01:00:12):
another belief that follows that went up that says something like, you will always be misunderstood.
Your actions will always be misunderstood.
You'll always be, and maybe that's part of like the growing up being on diagnosed with
on diagnosed autism, but there's another belief there too.
So people are going to misunderstand you.
That misunderstanding is going to cause pain and struggle and chaos in your life.
(01:00:36):
So just shut the fuck up.
And that's my belief system.
That's all the time we have today.
And it's funny too, cause like if you talk about like masculine energy, when you went
into that, you know, there's always going to be somebody that's going to misunderstand
me.
So just shut the fuck up.
(01:00:56):
However, when you do your videos and somebody misunderstands you or takes something way out
of context that you said, you go through the anger, but you answer with love.
So like one of the things that I learned in my coaching classes was this thing called
(01:01:20):
the triad, right?
And it's, it's focused language and physiology.
So when you're out with your friends and you're like in here, how do you hold your body?
What's your posture like?
Generally, you know, shoulders more forward and slumped, right?
(01:01:41):
Caved in to myself.
If possible, I will find a corner, a corner of a couch, a blanket, like seriously covering
up as if I, as much as I can.
And so what like, so we know that the brain signals to the body, but the body also signals
to the brain.
So what is that signal into your brain?
(01:02:01):
Stay small.
I'm not safe.
So then you're going to create anxiety.
So tomorrow when you're with your friends and you're out of your four walls and you're,
and you feel your body crunch up, that's what they call it.
The Wonder Woman pose.
You know what I mean?
(01:02:22):
Like, and Wonder Woman, I mean, she was incredible.
Like, no matter what movie or shows you watch from like the eighties or very feminine, right?
But you got to take that confident pose, get your shoulders back.
That'll all automatically start signaling to your brain.
I'm okay.
Yeah.
Then the language that you're telling yourself.
(01:02:46):
So you have to change the language around the beliefs of what your femininity is.
You now get the, the joy of defining what feminine is for you, not for anybody else.
And we all have both feminine and masculine tendencies to us.
(01:03:07):
You know, like, like I was saying, like in that Sunday school class I went to, I have,
there's a lot of feminine tendencies that I have.
I am emotional.
I talk about emotions, you know, all that stuff.
But if I got to, I'll scrap whatever, you know what I mean?
I used to love fighting.
Now if I do, I can't move for a week just because I'm older, you know?
(01:03:32):
So it's not about feminine dominating masculine.
It's about having the balance of the two and knowing when for them to come out.
Then so it's going to be all that language changing that language.
And then the third part, the focus is like neuroscientists have seen like with those
fMRI machines and all that, that when brain cells, what's the little cliche saying when
(01:03:55):
brain cells wire together, they, or when they fire together, they wire together.
So you have years of built up neuro pathways.
And you know, like that little thing they always talk about, like, you know, there's
scientists estimate there's 10 to the eighth power of atoms in the entire universe.
Right.
So that's a one with 80 zeros.
And then there's 10 to the millionth power possible neural connections in our brain.
(01:04:19):
So one with a million zeros.
I try to print that out.
It would take an entire ream of paper to print out a million zeros front and back.
Right.
80 zeros will fit on one page, one page versus an entire ream.
That's the power of our mind that we have to create life for us.
But that's also the power that we have to overcome.
(01:04:43):
So the only way to do this is by practicing.
Right.
So whenever you catch your focus, bullshitting on femininity, you got to catch it, change
that language and then change your focus.
What is feminine to you?
(01:05:04):
And then practice being feminine.
So like your homework, dude, would be seduce the hell out of your husband, because in that
moment, and I guarantee you this, like for like any woman that's listening, you could
be so feminine that you can ask your your your husband, your whatever to do anything.
(01:05:28):
And he will obey like, like he is like one of those lions in the circus that are just
whipped into submission.
Like the power of the femininity, like of a feminine woman can control men, the toughest
guy in the world.
(01:05:50):
You know, so start practicing the femininity, not that you believe you should have, but
practice the femininity that is right for you.
Because even I love all of that.
I'm like, I mean, not to get like too risqué and stuff, but like, I mean, sometimes like
(01:06:15):
women even dominating that can be incredibly feminine, but also very powerful.
You know, like, I mean, that's just the whole thing you can play with that that can teach
you how to use your femininity.
And then also bring your marriage closer together.
(01:06:40):
Yeah, my thought is something like, okay, I like all this.
I need to spend some time with it.
And what would opening the door about the width of my big toe look like?
(01:07:01):
That's what I'm ready to open the door.
What would that look like?
I'm ready to practice a big toes with.
Yeah.
Big toe in the door of this concept, like idea and concept.
And that's all.
Yeah.
And that's beautiful.
I mean, yeah.
Because like, if you just like jump out of an airplane with it, like that that could
(01:07:27):
like backfire, you know, and in my mind, like backfire, like where you're, it just overwhelms
your nervous system.
Right.
Yeah.
Crack that door open, you know, the visualizations that you can, I mean, visualize what you want
to do.
And in your head, you could be as feminine, as sensual, as dirty as you want to be.
(01:07:50):
You know what I mean?
And then crack that door open a little bit and see what feels okay for you, what you
can handle in the moment.
You know, maybe it's, I don't know, candles or something like just, you know, a bunch
of candles around, then maybe it's an outfit.
(01:08:11):
You know what I mean?
And then it just kind of goes from there.
But then, I mean, femininity is beyond just the sexual to things too as well.
Yeah.
No, I see it in creation, right?
And I see it in other creators.
Yeah.
(01:08:33):
I think that's all really good.
I think I might visualize my party tomorrow.
Yeah.
I think I might visualize the walls that would be fun.
And then I think I'll just bring a lot of awareness, like you said, to my body language
and also to any time I'm not giving my opinion because it's different than everybody else's.
(01:09:02):
I think that because of the way that I'm built for whatever reason, and maybe this is a lot
of the autism, I think differently than a lot of people.
And I imagine that that's my gift going forward in the future.
But damn it.
I mean, it's challenging right now.
(01:09:23):
So thank you for this, Keith.
This has been a really beautiful, beautiful session.
And it has moved me forward.
See, and it's funny too, because like in my head, I'm like, I sucked.
I didn't do it.
You know what I mean?
So it's that same process.
We all have that negativity bias.
(01:09:46):
Yeah.
But you show up, you practice, you do it anyway, all the things that you told me to do.
And then, yeah, that's another good thing to remember is that self perception is at
least right now seen through like gray colored glasses.
Right?
(01:10:06):
I'm going to see myself as more unattractive or whatever my bad characteristics are that
I judge than anybody else is going to.
Yeah.
Yeah, because I see you as incredibly feminine.
Yeah.
I think it's, I mean, yeah, there's a part of it, but all of this is really just opening
(01:10:31):
up.
I mean, we could probably do 100 sessions on this topic, right?
Because it's opening up so much.
But you reminded me it was like three new years ago, we had a party and I did this activity
where I like colored Mason jars and put everybody's name on a different Mason jar.
(01:10:51):
And then on the table was like little scraps of paper and different colors and stuff.
And I encouraged everybody write kind messages to everybody and put it in the right jar,
right?
And then every year long, everybody has their jar from their friends with little messages.
I never read mine.
Like sitting down and taking in that much love was uncomfortable for me.
(01:11:16):
That's a big clue right there too.
Right?
But see, it's all this sort of thing about like my relationship with other people and
how they perceive me and how I perceive me and like it's a big container.
And so I think one of the biggest takeaways for me in this session is just, hey, I need
(01:11:40):
to explore this more.
This is something I put on the back burner for a while because I've been focused on other
things, healing my burnout, getting back to my center.
But now if I want to go out into the world, which I do in a really authentic way, this
is something that has to be tackled.
And that last part is so interesting because to me, feminine is about receiving.
(01:12:07):
Yes.
Yes.
And if you feel unworthy to receive love.
Yes.
That's it.
That's it.
Yeah.
It has to do with receiving.
Yeah.
Man.
Like if you tell me like, why don't you just see how much you could receive from everybody
(01:12:29):
who's there to celebrate you at your party tomorrow?
I'm like, fuck you, buddy.
You don't tell me to do that.
We will throw hands, sir.
I'll fight you before that happens.
Oh my lord.
Dude, I think that practice for me.
(01:12:51):
I think that would be, oh man, if you're up for it.
Yeah.
So maybe the next one I'll report how I received love and everybody can watch me grow on this
topic.
Yeah.
This is beautiful.
(01:13:11):
And it's great because in building my business, this is something we've talked about before.
Like do I feel comfortable with 10 people liking my posts, a million people liking my
posts, how much love am I willing to receive even in my professional life?
And right now I got a glass ceiling.
Yeah.
(01:13:32):
Right up against a glass ceiling with my friends and my business and everything with
as much love as I'm willing to accept.
And.
Yeah.
Which is so because I'm the same way.
And it's so funny because we're both so connected with the universe and cosmos and this idea
of infinity.
But when it comes to, for me, success for you receiving love stuff, we have this box
(01:13:57):
that we're in, even though we love the idea of infinite expansion.
Yes.
Yes.
Yeah.
That just got to me.
Wow.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Thanks again, Keith.
(01:14:17):
There's just a lot of good, good wisdom that came out of this.
And I'm guessing a lot of people can relate because we're all humans, right?
We all have some version of playing small or being in a box or when we're really.
Really teaches us that from the get go from the moment that we sit down in school, we
(01:14:42):
lose the complete freedom of play, you know, and exploring and all that.
And then it's just structure.
And we're told that structure is what we need and stuff.
But some of the greatest minds out there couldn't, I mean, Einstein failed school, you know,
(01:15:02):
because he couldn't deal with that structure, but look at his mind.
You know, I mean, you, I look at you as an amazing coach, mentor, friend, and imagine
if you lost the, like those, that parenthetical structure and you were just open to the infinite
(01:15:23):
power and abundance and creativity that we all are as people.
Yeah, that'd be amazing.
Are we ready for that?
Can we?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And what does it really look like to tread that path, that journey, right?
(01:15:48):
Because like we always talk about, we talk about destinations, but really you never
get anywhere.
You're just always on the journey.
So a person who has connected to that sort of infinite, cosmo level beingness, what
is their daily practices?
(01:16:08):
How do they stay connected to that?
Right?
Because it's, it's something they're doing on their journey that is allowing for that
to happen.
And to me, that's an interesting question.
And maybe it starts with what we're talking about.
Maybe it starts with me visualizing my birthday party and accepting love and practicing being
(01:16:31):
expansive.
Yeah.
And for me too, man.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I got my pool match tonight and I know exactly what I'm going to do.
I'm going to sit there.
I'm going to close my mouth, not talk.
When people come up to talk to me, I'm going to be like, I don't want to be talking, just
(01:16:53):
leave me alone, you know?
So I mean, I'm not going to tell you to practice that.
And then so I'm going to have to practice talking to people tonight.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Shit.
And I think that this is common for introverts.
We have so much to offer the world, but how to do it is hard.
(01:17:18):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because we're always taught one way, you got to be that extrovert.
But I think introverts, man, maybe that's, we'll be the leaders of the introvert army,
dude, like changing the world without leaving the house, you know, type thing.
Love it.
(01:17:39):
All right.
Thank you so much, Kate.
I'm going to stop the recording.
Thank you everybody for witnessing my coaching session and my growth today, my investigation.
And Keith, thank you so much for holding a space for me.
Anytime, man.
Thank you for listening to the Chasing Thoughts podcast.
(01:18:01):
Please support us by liking, subscribing, or leaving a review or comment.
We would really appreciate it.
If you'd like to be a guest, we would love to explore life and what it means to be human
with you.
So please email us at chasingthoughtspodcast at gmail.com.
Welcome to the Chasing Thoughts podcast.
(00:06):
Chasing Thoughts was founded by strangers, two life coaches who met on TikTok and shared
the desire to create a different kind of life coaching podcast.
Instead of talking about how to do it right, the Chasing Thoughts podcast explores embracing
our true essence to find a deeper sense of purpose and fulfillment.
Life coaches Keith and Mindy take a unique approach that transcends popular notions of
(00:31):
perpetual happiness and striving relentlessly to become one's ideal self.
Listen in as Mindy, Keith and their guests take a deep dive into their own minds and
souls to investigate the beauty of imperfection, challenge their beliefs, and embrace the richness
of living a truly authentic life.
Hi, my name is Keith and I'm a strategic interventionist and stoner-spirited life coach.
(00:58):
Hi, my name is Mindy and I am an authenticity empowerment coach.
Welcome to Chasing Thoughts.
Hi everybody, it is season 2 episode 18 and it is Keith and I here and today Keith
(01:20):
is going to give me a coaching session.
You guys heard me coach Keith a couple weeks ago, so other way around.
I said take off my jacket and I get ready to be vulnerable and all right, are you ready
for this Keith?
Yeah, it's definitely scary because in my head I'm like, all right, I got to be the
(01:45):
same type of coach as you, you know what I mean?
Like I'm different, so it's just embracing who I am and just letting it flow, trusting
that I'm not an idiot.
Okay, so let me tell you what I've really been struggling with.
(02:12):
I don't, I don't even know if I'm saying this right.
So the first thing I'd say is I don't feel like I have enough time in my life for all
the things I want, but then I'll say no, I actually want to just stay home alone all
the time, writing, doing my gardening, hanging out with my husband.
(02:35):
I like it when people stop by my house, but then there's this, I know that the research
shows that deep relationships and friendships and people are how to make life meaningful
for humans.
I believe in tribes, I believe in villages, and yet, like there's a women's group that
(02:58):
happens every month that I don't go to because at 5 36 o'clock at night, I don't want to
leave my house.
And I think about there is this woman who asked me to do dance classes or asked me to
do a yoga class, and I'm really struggling between just doing what I want, which is like
not going anywhere doing anything.
(03:20):
And I don't mean that like I sit home and my pajamas watching TV, I'm reading, I'm researching,
I'm doing my introverted and stuff, right?
And so I live and I have lived in this world probably for the last year or two where I
don't do the things out there, and then I beat myself up for not doing the things.
(03:43):
And so I'm not sure if I'm out of alignment and need to bring in discipline to force myself
to do these things to be the full, well rounded individual with a meaningful life that I want
to be.
Or if I just stop frigging beating myself up and do the things that bring me joy that
(04:03):
are right in front of me, but what I'm doing right now standing on the fence is painful.
So I want to get off the fence, but I don't know which way I want to go.
When you, when you think of that stuff, when you think about going to like the women's
(04:24):
the women's meeting and doing like the dancing and stuff, what's the story that you're telling
yourself?
That I'd have more fun at home doing a craft at my table or reading my book or like why
would I, why would I choose sort of a second tier entertainment when I got first tier
(04:47):
entertainment right here at home?
And then what's the story of the guilt?
Notice that a happy, well rounded person that feels safe in the world has a tribe or a village
or people that people are important for people.
(05:12):
And so I need to cultivate that with intention.
And there are people out there who I know who I genuinely love and I want to be more
like them and they have things they could teach me.
And right, I'm not, I, the problem isn't that I haven't identified the right people.
(05:33):
The problem is just getting out of my own introvertedness.
And you know, I said that I'd probably been struggling with this for like two years.
I think for the first year, year and a half, I was saying to myself, I'm just recovering
from burnout because I had that huge, like couple years of burnout when I was executive
(05:53):
director.
So I'm like, this is appropriate for me to just be paving in, staying home, just honoring
myself, healing my nervous system.
But now that that is done, it's like I'm addicted to it and I'm addicted to this calm feeling
that I have when I stay home, when I meditate, when I work in my garden, and then I go run
(06:16):
errands and I go to Costco and I go meet with friends and that calm is disrupted.
So you start to feel like when you, when you leave the house, you start to feel like this
anxiety coming up or like this overwhelming kind of feeling.
(06:39):
I think it's that I have learned and taught myself how to easily access and retain presence
and peace within my own four walls.
And it just is yummy.
(06:59):
But I don't know how to hold that space when I'm at Costco or when I am at a women's group
with 10 women all talking.
And to you, what is, what is a tribe?
How many people do you need in a tribe for it to be a tribe?
(07:24):
I don't know.
See, this is another question that I've had for myself is, I guess there's still this
underlying pressure or thought that I have to do this right.
And what is the right amount of friendships to have to be a good human?
(07:47):
What is the right amount of times per week to see my dad?
And what is the right amount of time per week to see my grown son who doesn't live with
me?
And what is the right, I'm always worried that I'm either overwhelming people with too
much contact or that I'm not showing up for people.
But there's never a time where I feel like I'm just doing it right.
(08:09):
I'm always in a struggle with my relationships of being too much or not enough.
And then when you get in your house, that's where you have that piece because you know
exactly because you decide what you're going to do, whether you're going to dig up your
(08:32):
whole front yard and bring in truckloads of dirt or research or stuff for social media.
Like that's where you rule.
So it seems like when you're in the house, you're living for yourself.
And then when you go out of the house, that's where the script flips and you're living through
(08:59):
the perceptions of others.
You know, what is the right amount of friends?
Now it might not be like the perception of this person, but you know, that question of
what is the right amount of friends?
That's a question for us to answer.
Right.
But when we're constantly freaking out about the, you know, what is it?
(09:21):
Like what's that number?
We're almost like outsourcing the answer to somewhere out there that that's the right
answer out there.
And I have to find out what that is.
So you're no longer living for self.
So yeah, you can't be in alignment like that.
Yeah.
(09:41):
But I still don't know how to find that answer, right?
Because I don't have clarity on what is my introvertedness, what is my fear of showing
up and what is possibly just sort of resistance or laziness or, right, inertia not happening.
(10:11):
I will say that thing about always feeling like I'm too much or not enough definitely
keeps me withdrawn from people because I never leave a social situation, whether it's a walk
with a friend or a party going, oh, I nailed that.
(10:35):
Like I never feel that way. I always leave social situations with a thought of like,
ugh, I overshared or like, ugh, I didn't say anything that I thought, right?
Like I didn't share my real self.
And it's a struggle for me.
(10:59):
So do you think like going that whole thing with going out kind of all funnels down to
that thing of I don't socially, I don't know what to do.
I don't know what's over the line with sharing or like that type of thing.
And then that's where a lot of that comes up.
(11:19):
So if you went to that women's group, would you have 10 women that are like, who is this
freaky lady that came in here and just dominates everything and overshares and?
I think that's what I'm afraid of is either being that person because I've been given
(11:41):
that feedback a lot.
Like I've shared with you where people are like, whoa, right?
Like I'm a Hummer.
I'm a bulldozer.
I have a tendency to go big.
That makes people feel uncomfortable or I've gotten feedback to that.
And I've also been in social situations with like a group of people like four or five times
(12:05):
and then had somebody like not even remember me and forget my name because I'm not showing
up at all and I'm like a wallflower.
So both are true.
It's like a doctor Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, but with my own personality, right?
There's these two ways that I show up and yeah, I just struggle with it.
(12:30):
And I think that that's part of it around the house because I always say that I have
my introvert bubble, right?
And then I tell my husband like, I've made you a part of my bubble so that I can feel
comfortable with you in my house and my son is part of my bubble because he and I don't
know if it's just something like that or if those people I have finally, because I don't
(12:56):
I don't worry with them about who I am or am I too much or too little, right?
Because they're in my bubble.
They're in my comfort space.
So then I ask myself the question, well, how would I make other people in my comfort space?
I don't effing know.
Dude, I remember watching an episode of Roman Empire on Netflix and I forget the emperor's
(13:24):
name, but he became so paranoid that he exiled himself to Cyprus and he had this palace there.
It was all about pleasure.
Like there was women, men, like food, drink, everything.
And it made me realize that our comfort zone, and we've talked about like comfort zones
(13:45):
a lot, especially on the podcast.
And our comfort zones can be like feel like a prison to us and be very uncomfortable,
but we stay in that pain because the pain of stepping out is a lot.
And what it made me realize is our comfort zone can be a palace.
(14:06):
Yeah.
It can be like a place we don't want to leave, but it's still a prison that that fear
is keeping us in there.
So it seems like you've kind of cultivated this beautiful comfort zone where you have
everything that you need and you can study and you can build your business, build your
(14:29):
other business.
You have your husband, your kid, like, but it's still a prison because as soon as you
step out, you lose that comfort.
Yeah.
So can you, can you give me like, what's an example?
If you don't mind sharing this of when you were given that, that feedback that you like
(14:52):
came in too strong, bulldozed, like, does any like specific story come to mind like
this was like seriously bad or whatever?
I've gotten that feedback professionally a lot, like from upper management when I was
middle management type of things, right?
Where they're like, whoa, like tone it down.
(15:13):
Um, I've gotten that feedback certainly as a kid, right?
That sort of like calm down, you know, like contain yourself.
Who's giving you that feedback as a kid?
My mom.
I have a tendency when I get excited to talk faster and faster and louder and louder.
(15:39):
And I've been given that feedback to quiet my voice a lot.
Um, I've had some relationships and this is related, but not exactly the same.
So I have a very, what I would say male thinking brain, like I can hang out with guys and feel
(16:03):
very comfortable.
Our brains work the same way.
My thoughts are more traditionally like male thinking.
And I've had two different boyfriends break up with me because of that.
They said that I wasn't feminine enough that, uh, it's too masculine.
And so that kind of goes with that same like big energy, right?
(16:24):
Like it's very masculine energy.
And now that I'm trying to do like these women's circles and develop more of my feminine side,
there are a lot of times when I don't agree with group think for women.
And I have not said anything yet because that's like supposed to be my female tribe.
(16:44):
And I could really disrupt things with an unpopular opinion.
Right?
Like, what's one of those opinions like that, that you just don't agree with?
Well, it could be something like I had one the other day where someone in the group was
sharing that, um, like they were going to give their kid a job for them and then they
(17:06):
were going to keep their kid at home.
And it was sort of what I would consider like cuddling behavior.
But all the other moms were like, Oh, that's so good.
Oh, how precious that you have that time together.
They were all moming.
And I didn't feel that way.
And I'm on popular anyways.
(17:27):
Like, you know, when my son was 18, I'm like, out.
You know, find your life, which is not a popular way for a mom to be in today's world.
And um, yeah, I have this like suspicion that whatever this is, this big masculine overbearing
(17:49):
energy that I'm so afraid of is part of the key to my future success.
But because I didn't know how, I feel like it's like a sword and I didn't know how to
like use it when I was using it before.
And so I'm like, Oh, put this thing away and lock it up forever.
And now I'm like, okay, I can get this out, but I need to understand it and know how to
(18:16):
use it so I don't like, bolt people over or go too big or come off as unattractive with
my messaging.
I know I'm all over right now, but that's because I don't understand this either.
Right.
Yeah, no.
And it's cool.
And this is what I love about coaching so much because I'm kind of like reaching and
(18:41):
being like, okay, here's a puzzle piece.
Here's a puzzle piece.
Here's a puzzle piece together.
And one of the pieces that I'm seeing is your belief systems.
When it comes to feminine and masculine, your belief systems are not yours.
They have not been created by you.
(19:02):
They've been, which all of our belief systems initially are given to us, you know, starts
with our parents, teachers, boyfriends, like all this stuff professionally colleagues.
And so like when it comes to that, you've been told that you're too loud, you know, you're
(19:26):
just too much energy and all this stuff from, you know, your mom, boyfriend's breaking up
with you because you're too masculine and stuff.
So to you, what is feminine and what is masculine?
Good question.
And also thank you for recognizing my beliefs.
And I just want to say I agree that it's fascinating when you just hear someone talk and you're
(19:50):
just the listener, how you can start to pick out the threads that I don't hear, right?
That's the power of this kind of conversation.
Yeah.
Okay.
Um, masculine and feminine, what is that to me?
Um, I think I actually have some negative thoughts about femininity, femininity being
(20:21):
like female.
And maybe that's why I avoid it.
I'm not sure.
As we mentioned before we were starting my whole life, all my role models have been male.
Right?
I'm a writer, right?
Leaders, like, and I think that that could be just because traditionally in the past females
(20:46):
couldn't take the roles that I'm attracted to.
But I've never in my life really had a strong female where I said, that's what I want to
be like, right?
I'm more attracted to masculine energy.
Sometimes I even wonder if I was born into today's world, would I try on like a gender
(21:06):
change or gender experimentation?
Because that wasn't even available when we were kids.
But I feel so, um, unusual.
I don't know how to describe it.
Um, I think that I feel like I don't like the limitations that I think females have.
(21:36):
I don't like, uh, how emotional and out of context females get.
See, I'm telling you my belief system.
So I believe femininity is out of context, over emotional.
Like, look at how many bad things I've seen.
(21:57):
Oh my gosh, I'm embarrassed of my own thoughts.
Yeah, I guess I've always been attracted to being more logical and in control of my own
emotions and to me those are kind of like masculine traits.
(22:20):
But for someone else, those could not be masculine traits, right?
How interesting.
Yeah.
I feel like, and I'm not sure about this one, but I want to mention it because it is something
that I'm struggling with.
(22:41):
How I show up physically is a larger part of the equation than I believe it would be
for a male.
And that is a piece that I haven't really figured out.
I don't know if I am pleased by that or frustrated by it, but you know how many like weird, quirky
(23:04):
old guys there are doing cool stuff, whether it's the guy at the bar playing the guitar
or the guy on social media doing this or that.
There's not a lot of weird, quirky old ladies that are like nailing it because most women
in our culture after 50 are invisible, right?
And so that comes up for me.
(23:27):
So I mean, what I wanted to say to you is I don't know, but I know that's not a good
answer.
Oh, it's a beautiful answer.
This is my mess of thoughts.
Yes.
That is a beautiful, beautiful answer because as soon as you say, I don't know, you open
yourself up.
I mean, that is vulnerability, right?
(23:49):
Like when we take on like, no, no, no, I know.
I know.
You know, like that whole type thing.
It's that like strict unbending control, especially when you don't have a freaking clue of what
you're talking about.
You know, like Sad Guru talks about like the three greatest words in the English language
(24:09):
are I don't know.
So that I applaud you for that.
You're not making up bullshit.
You're just saying, I don't know.
But it's so cool because like you want you were told you're too masculine through so
(24:30):
many things and you want to be feminine.
But the rules that you have for femininity are I got to become overly emotional.
I have to cry about a cat video and all this stuff and like lose control of my emotions
and not think logically.
And I, I mean, we're both in our forties, right?
(24:54):
So pretty soon you got to disappear.
Your life ends before you die because you're a woman.
So those are the rules and the belief systems that you have for the person that you want
to become.
Who would want to become that?
Yeah.
So, you know, when you like see a group of girls and they're all like screaming and stuff.
(25:17):
I've never done that in my life.
I never want to do that in my life.
Like, do you see how I have like an aversion?
But I don't know why I have an aversion to that.
Right.
I don't know if that's just my personality and my nature that I don't scream and jump
up and down.
Or is it something that I've been avoiding because of some weird thing that happened to
(25:38):
me and my childhood?
Right.
I don't know if I should try to break through it or if I should just embrace what feels
more natural to me for the audience who is listening.
Keith is just giving me the eye right now.
But I could that was such a beautiful thing.
(25:59):
I don't know if I should.
Basically you're saying I don't know if I should take on a character and play a role
that doesn't feel real to me or be real to myself.
So you do know that answer.
Yeah, it's weird though.
There's like this voice in my head that says, well, because all women should be like that,
(26:24):
like should scream when they see each other and hug each other.
There must be something that happened to you that made you not like that because you're
supposed to be like that.
Yes.
And I'm like, oh my God, I better go back to my childhood and see what f me up.
Right.
And you're right.
What's wrong, my beliefs are about what it means to be a woman.
(26:46):
And you're 100% right.
Something happened to you at some point where the thing of like, oh, I just bought a new
purse.
Like that stuff does not resonate with you.
You're just like, oh my God, something happened to you.
There's experiences that you had that made Mindy.
(27:06):
And then those other women that do that, there's experiences that they had that taught them
to do that.
So you've had different experiences, which we've all had, but you've always refused to
take on the role of a character.
And you always, even in the midst of like it causing suffering saying, I'm going to
(27:31):
be me.
And then you're looking at the rules that society has for us, the rules that you were
given from a young kid, you're being too loud, you're being too masculine, but again, whatever
the hell that means, you know, boyfriends, you're not feminine enough, you know, but
(27:51):
even though now you're married to a great guy, you've done so much.
I mean, you look at Olympic athletes that are women, you know, gymnasts, like I've never
looked at a gymnast be like, wow, so masculine, you know, they're always so feminine stuff,
but they are the strongest people.
(28:13):
Rhonda Rousey, you know, like this UFC fighter that can whoop my ass like with both of her
hands tied behind her back, very feminine, you know, so the first thing like is, is,
is sort of breaking away from society's definition of what you an individual need to be.
(28:37):
Yeah.
And I'll also say that this is probably why I'm so attracted to so many thought leaders
right now that are advocating for getting rid of like a gender identity or recognizing that
gender's fluid or getting rid of ideas of what masculinity and femininity is like that
(29:02):
whole movement, I'm way behind because I can relate to it.
And the other thing when you were talking, one of the things I love that you just said
was, yes, of course, it's because something happened to you, but that doesn't mean that
it's not authentic or true.
Right.
(29:23):
Right.
So if something happened to me to make me into this, now that I'm aware of it, I get
to be a choice if I want to continue being that or not continue being that, right?
Yes.
So I wasn't thinking about it that way.
So would it be safe to say like you're becoming aware that a lot of the belief systems that
(29:44):
you have for femininity are belief systems that have been given to you instead of ones
that you've created for yourself?
I think so.
And what I thought of when you were talking when you said that was I was raised by a single
mom with my sister.
So all female household, there were no males in my life growing up.
(30:09):
And so that could be number one, why I crave that energy or more attracted to it.
But I also thought, and this is a weird thing to say, like as a little girl, I sort of played
what would be more traditional male role and male thinking in my house with my mom and
(30:30):
my sister.
Right.
Like they're both more magical thinking, like feeling thinking.
And I'm just not built that way.
And so like I have this, you know, we were always super poor.
And I remember, God, I had to be in like second graders and my mom wanted to go out and buy
(30:51):
like a new dish set and like towels with little ducks on them and a little duck cookie holder,
you know, like a set of things.
And I was like, we can't do this.
We don't have the money.
Like show me your checkbook.
Like you don't have that money to buy this, right?
And I was always frustrated with the choices my mom made and the way my mom behaved.
(31:15):
And she dated all these different guys when I was growing up.
And she, right.
Like she played a very classic female role and I hated it.
Beautiful.
So you saw your mom playing the role, going through all these guys, not really like taking
care of the finances, so it came down to you to be the logical, to take on the masculine
(31:41):
energy in your family's relationship.
Yeah.
That would say that's probably very true.
So what is, what is, so we know, we know for you, for your belief systems, feminine, femininity
is a lot of bullshit.
Right.
(32:02):
I don't see the strength in it yet.
I don't think.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
What's masculinity?
Strong.
Strength.
Certainly.
Strength, logic, steadfastness, reason.
(32:31):
Those are the top ones that come to my mind.
And those are things that you see in yourself.
Yes.
That's what I'd say.
So you have this, like the whole dichotomy of masculine versus feminine energy.
And you, and you want to open up more to the feminine side.
(32:58):
That you have rules, you have beliefs that were experiences that you've, that, and that's,
that's what kind of builds our belief system or experiences, what we're told, all that
stuff that femininity is weakness.
There's no strength there.
There's no logic.
It's magical thinking.
It's unicorns and rainbows and all that all the time.
(33:19):
It's spending money that you don't have for pretty little ducks and all this stuff.
And then you have masculine, which is strong, steadfastness, logic, reason.
So if you go just to the pain versus pleasure principle of the brain, everything in your
(33:39):
brain is going to force you away from, from femininity and towards masculinity, right?
Because femininity is painful.
And the masculine side is, is, is the pleasurable side.
It's the side that you need to be.
Yeah.
I'm certainly judging the femininity side, right?
(34:02):
There's a lot of, yeah, I recognize that.
And I also recognize that judgment is always a red flag, right?
Like I just know that to be true.
So I know I have something going on because I have strong judgment of self and other on
this topic.
Yeah.
All right.
So, wait, let me add one more thing.
I have this past and then I have my present.
(34:25):
And then when I look out in the world for female role models, there's no one I see that I want
to be like.
So I'm like trapped.
I forget what this thing is called, but I did it yesterday.
So we keep, we keep, you know, a Kong for a dog.
Yeah.
(34:46):
We fill it with peanut butter.
Yeah.
And we put it in the freezer.
And so when we have dinner, we give the Kong to Zoe.
And it's always in the left-hand side of the freezer, always.
And Sandy did them up and she put them in the right-hand side.
(35:07):
So I looked at it and I'm like, there's no Kongs, right?
She was working some overtime and stuff.
So I'm like, what do I do now?
You know, like she's never Kong, you know?
So I texted Sandy just to see if she was free.
And I was like, I might be missing it, but it doesn't seem like there's any Kongs in
the freezer.
In my head, what I was really saying was, you idiot, you forgot to do what you were supposed
(35:31):
to do.
And now like Zoe's going to suffer, right?
And I looked everywhere.
I was moving things around.
They weren't in there.
She goes, should be on the right-hand side, right above the chicken.
They were right there.
And it was like magic.
It was like they suddenly appeared, right?
(35:51):
So my question for you is, do you think that there is no good feminine role models?
Or do you have a belief system that they don't really exist so you can't find them?
So because you're telling yourself the story of I can't find them.
Yeah.
Beautifully said.
And yes, I'm guessing that is the case.
(36:16):
I do recognize that there is a certain gift or power of being female that I don't know,
that I would like to know, and that there's a certain blending that will help me ground,
right?
Like I know that I need to work on this to become the future self that I want to be,
(36:40):
right?
There is some inkling in there that I need to find the good of really being a female.
But that being said, I guess I would say I don't know how to go about it in an authentic
(37:00):
way, because everywhere where I touch females, whether it's women's group or this person
on social media or this, I immediately go into, oh, I need to act like they're acting,
and then it's the role, right?
And so I'm not sure how to investigate this and make it my own in an authentic way where
(37:24):
I don't step into playing a character.
Well, I'm glad you reached out to me for this, because I know exactly how to do it.
I went to a Sunday school class once, and this was back when we were in church, and
(37:46):
they were going through how men receive love, how women receive love, and all that stuff.
And everything he ticked off for women, I was like, yeah, I do that, I do that, I do
that, I do that.
And everything he ticked off for men, it was Sandy.
And so I raised my hand, and I was like, should I start questioning something, which
did not go well in a Baptist church?
(38:08):
But I thought it was funny.
And Sandy's very, very similar.
When her brother died, people were bringing her flowers and stuff, and I bought her a
skill saw that had this laser thing on it, where she can just, and she was like, that
was the greatest gift I've ever gotten.
She just loves to do that stuff.
But she's also incredibly feminine.
(38:32):
So the first step in that is becoming aware that the beliefs that you have for femininity
are not yours.
They're yours by the experience and the meaning that you gave them seeing as you're growing
up with your mom, having to be that strong, logical, reasonable person as a kid, seeing
(39:01):
the groups that you want to be a part of, but they're all doing and acting in the same
way and thinking, I have to act that.
So the first step is understanding that those beliefs were given to you.
And they don't align with you, so you know they're bullshit.
So what do you believe femininity should be?
(39:25):
If you can clear your mind of society, so right now in the cosmos, it's just Mindy and
me, what is being feminine me?
All right, hold on.
I'm thinking about that.
So let me think about that.
(39:51):
I would say flexibility, but what I picture in my mind when I say that is like bamboo
or something, right?
Like flexibility, flexible strength, I guess is what I'm saying, right?
Flexible strength.
I want to say the word acceptance, but I want to put like a little asterisk next to it since
(40:14):
there's so many weird ideas out there about how females should be accepting, right?
But acceptance as a power move, right?
Like radical acceptance.
See like a container that holds appreciation for beauty and maybe more of the more subtle
(40:48):
hidden aspects of life and nature.
There is a fierce love that women have and particularly mothers, right, that you see come
out that is very beautiful.
I can acknowledge that.
(41:17):
I'm not sure how play really shows up for females.
I think I have an aversion to that that I can't see around wisdom.
I guess I believe that once upon a time women held like a position of wisdom in tribes and
(41:42):
whatnot, which I still believe in, but I don't think is reflected or accepted in our culture.
So I'm like, oh, I can be the wise woman on my couch, but it's not accepted in the world.
(42:10):
Presence maybe would be.
I think sometimes women can hold space in ways that I haven't seen men do.
So those are some positives that I see.
Now generally, like if you like if you had found me like, I need a co-op so we don't
(42:37):
really know each other.
Like these would be interesting, but knowing you, I think the majority of these describe
exactly who you are.
The acceptance, like I was always nervous about like putting something up and like,
(43:00):
oh, I didn't put up a post today and you're like, dude, it's going to happen when it happens.
You know, the, well, I can't even read and I handwriting what I put here.
Oh, the container that holds appreciation for beauty.
Like you are all about the beauty of nature, all of the pictures that you put up.
(43:24):
First off, the strength that you have for mountaineering, before your accident, right?
The pictures that you put up, the scenery that you can put up, you notice all the beauty
in the world, fierce love.
I've seen people say horrible things to you and you respond with kindness and compassion,
(43:49):
you know, which is love, you know, you show love to people that show you disrespect.
Wisdom, you're incredibly wise.
And it made me think of like elephants, right?
Not calling you an elephant, but you know, like the matriarch and there's a lot of cultures
(44:10):
that are built off the matriarch that the wisdom of the culture has passed down from
woman to woman to woman.
Presence, like that is, that is like the one word I would describe for you.
The one that I would be like was the flexibility.
(44:33):
But I think that comes from you like wanting to be that flexibility, but that belief of
I have to be this way.
Because when you have to be that way, that's stiff, you know, but who you really want to
be is that bamboo is amazing dude.
Like in the U.S., like we have all the scaffolding that is made from like metal and wood and
(44:58):
stuff.
And then you go like to the Asian countries and like they have this scaffolding that's
swaying, but it's so much stronger than the stuff that we have that's made from bamboo.
You know, I mean trees, like they can, the trees and the swamps and stuff, I forget the
cypress trees can withstand winds that are like over 150 miles an hour because they are
(45:20):
so flexible and their root systems and stuff like that.
So yeah, so I want to try something with you because you had you said that thing about
play and you're like, I just, I just don't know.
So I want, I want you to try to answer without thinking, which, which I know like when you
(45:41):
like to think about the answer, so I'm going to ask like a bunch of questions, right?
So what's your name?
Mindy, what do you do?
I have a life coach.
Are you a mother?
Yes.
What does your husband do?
He's a chemist.
Do you like the chasing thoughts podcast?
(46:02):
Very much.
Who is your favorite co-host?
Keith.
What does play mean to you?
Fun, but what is that?
Right?
Maybe what is that?
(46:26):
Yeah, I guess I get, I think I get caught up because in our world or maybe in my past,
my belief system, my belief system has something that says extroverts are better people than
introverts.
And I think our culture supports that.
(46:47):
So if I go to the, actually, I'll give an example.
There was this one time when we were in a group of friends when bowling, right?
And I sat at the bar and read a book.
I was reading on the road by Jack Kerouac at the time.
And I had the most fun and people came over and said hi to me or whatever, you know, and
(47:10):
this and that, but I wasn't part of the group.
And I went, well, I'm scared to write this.
And to me, sitting at the bar reading my book was fun.
But I struggle because I feel like my definition of fun, like most people who are there probably
(47:31):
thought like, what's wrong with Mindy?
Like, oh, she's sitting out.
Oh, she's not hanging out with us.
Right?
Like there's a.
Who told you that?
And there's often awkwardness in my social situations.
Did someone come up and tell you that this is awkward because you're just sitting here?
Or is that what you told yourself they were thinking?
(47:52):
Yeah, it's probably what I told myself they were thinking.
Right?
I think this is such a great timing because we didn't really plan on this coaching session.
This was like spur of the moment.
But I turned 45 tomorrow.
(48:14):
And a big birthday party planned and everybody's going to come over at noon in some sort of
costume or silly get up.
Play, play croquet at the park.
Then we're going to come back here and barbecue.
Have a couple drinks, whatever.
(48:35):
And all week I've been thinking about usually coming up to my birthday.
I do a lot of like journaling and processing because I'm like, who am I becoming?
What is this next evolution of self?
Who am I going to be at 45?
And I've just been thinking, all right, on my birthday, I'm just going to show up like
not contained, not self-motivating.
(48:59):
Yes.
And then there's another side of like when I've been telling myself that the other voice
has been like, whoa, I don't know if we should go there.
Yeah.
Right.
So it's really interesting that we had this conversation about like fitting in where I
feel awkward and all this stuff with this thing happening tomorrow.
(49:21):
It's like perfect timing.
But yeah, I worry about offending people with who I am.
I'm worried about my beliefs offending people or my opinions offending people.
I'm worried about, yeah, being too loud, too big, too weird, all of it, right?
(49:47):
Worry about being vulnerable.
Yeah.
So my little book on stuff like what do you call it?
Like social posts I wanted to do, like this quote from Brene Brown.
Vulnerability is the core of shame and fear and our struggle for worthiness, right?
(50:12):
Which is everything your mind is, you're like, I'm going to go and I'm going to be like off
the hook.
Like there's going to be, I'm just going to be absolutely me as weird, as freaky as
whatever I want to be.
And then your brain is like, what the hell are you thinking?
You know, again, because it's got to keep us safe, right?
So vulnerability is the core of shame and fear and our struggle for worthiness.
(50:36):
But it's also the birthplace of joy, of creativity and get this, of belonging and of love.
So true belonging is on the side of vulnerability that we don't want to walk through.
(51:00):
And all of this started off with like the women's group having your tribe.
So if you want that tribe, don't adhere to a character that you're supposed to play.
Add you, because I mean, the tribe doesn't need another character.
It doesn't need another, yay, I got new shoes.
(51:22):
It doesn't need the weak femininity of your belief system.
It needs you.
Yeah, it's interesting when you read that quote in my brain, my brain is like, fuck,
yeah, that's it.
(51:43):
That's so true.
Yes, I can feel the truth in that statement, right?
Like truth has a feeling sometimes, right?
You can like feel it.
And then like in my gut, like somewhere between my chest and my gut, it's like, hell no, F
you.
(52:05):
So we talk about like, you know, the three ways to know something like logically in your
heart and in your body, like my, I guess this is my chance to pull that from my mind into
my body, right, and act from that knowing.
But I feel like I almost have to like sort of show up for my nervous system.
(52:32):
And I know that it sounds kind of weird, but when I think about like, okay, what would
it take for me to go balls out tomorrow?
And I'm like, all right, I'm going to have to be like, all right, nervous system, we're
okay.
That's cool.
We're fine.
Yep, we're going to do this, right?
Like I have to sort of be there for myself leading up to, and I don't know, maybe during
(52:56):
the process, but I can't, it would be inauthentic for me to pretend that my nervous system was
okay with this idea.
Oh, yeah.
My nervous system is not on board.
Dude, tomorrow you are going to be like, I'm doing this.
(53:17):
I got this.
And then the closer guests of that time, you're going to be like, oh my God, I just want to
crawl in a hole, right?
But if you step through it, if you step through it, there is going to be, there's going to
come at the point of like a release.
Yeah.
And then you're just going to be you.
(53:38):
Yeah, I like that.
All the beauty of everything that you bring, of everything that you are, is just going to
be there on full display for everybody to see.
Yeah.
And I wanted breakfast, I guess.
(54:02):
Like of course I myself with friends, but I'm talking about like the next level.
Like we have a group of friends who is great.
The group of couples that's great.
We have like a social life, but I am contained in it.
Right?
Yeah, but now think that I wanted to get rid of and explore it.
(54:23):
Why am I controlling myself?
Right?
Because that's what I'm doing.
I'm containing and controlling and moderating myself.
And that's the piece that I don't think I need anymore.
It's not, it's not making me feel good to do that anymore.
Yeah.
And then it was funny too, because like at the beginning you said you're contained in
(54:43):
your four walls.
And now you're saying, okay, I'm in can containing my four walls, but then I also got my friends.
Well, yeah, I think it's like in my four walls, I feel like I can come out of my body.
Right?
But when I leave my four walls, I am deep inside this skin.
(55:06):
What about with your friends too?
I would say I'm still inside my skin because I'm still like, this is so judgmental, but
like people are weird, right?
Like they have a lot of judgments like, oh, she talked to my husband too much.
(55:29):
Oh, she was flirting over here.
Oh, she did this.
Oh, she did that.
Oh, she thought she was like judgment, judgment, judgment, judgment.
And I get logically that that's not my business and I can't control it.
But yeah, I'm also scared of offending people or doing something wrong or that.
(55:52):
Yeah.
Cause you learned, you learned as, as, as a kid that you were responsible for the emotional
like well-being of, of the family.
So the family could be the emotional, the unicorns and rainbows and you had to, to reel
it in.
So now when you go out and you're like talking to one of your friends, husbands, now you're
(56:13):
in your head being like, is this too much?
Is she going to think I'm flirting?
Is she going to write?
So you're living through the perception of your friends thoughts that you're making up
in your own head.
Yes.
Instead of.
Yeah.
Yeah, good comparison and I, I hadn't seen that previously, but you're right because
(56:36):
the other day I told my husband something like, I hope I don't screw up our whole friend
circle by joining this other like smaller women's group of our bigger friends.
Like that if I didn't hold it together, I could ruin the whole thing, which is similar
to like my childhood experience.
Right? if I don't hold it together, this whole thing is going to fall apart.
(57:01):
Kind of like narcissistic, but.
Well, yeah.
And it's a way to protect yourself.
You're trying to protect yourself.
You're trying to protect your friend.
And so it is a, it's a very, um, uh, my mind takes a left on me.
It's, it's.
It shows how good you are.
You know what I mean?
(57:22):
That you're trying to protect your friends.
You're trying to protect your friends ships, but a lot of times we try to protect things
that don't need the protection.
Yeah.
And when you said that, not only didn't ring is true, but my thought was, do I honestly
believe that I need to protect people from me?
(57:44):
Cause if that's true, that's a big thought.
Right?
Like is that what's happening for me right now?
And there is a little bit of that.
That's a core.
That's a core thought that was beautiful to unveil.
(58:05):
And would that mean that there's parts of you that you don't like?
No, I think it's more that.
I feel like, you know, this is part of being human, I guess, but that I'm unintentionally
(58:36):
hurt so many people or unintentionally got results that I didn't think I was going to
get.
Right?
So by monitoring myself or keeping myself contained, I'm less likely to get results
that I don't anticipate.
(58:57):
So you're, you're trying to control future expectations.
Yeah.
I would say that's true.
I hate that.
I do that with everything and I hate that with all of my being.
Well, yeah, cause how, I mean, what, the way I want to live is the way I feel when I'm
(59:18):
gardening, which is not thinking about who I am or what I'm doing or how I am being or
anything else, right?
Just to be present.
And I think, you know, this is the human experience, certainly in why we all do drugs
or we love sex or skiing or things that bring us into the present moment.
Right?
But, um, yeah, this has been a really useful conversation because I never, I never thought
(59:46):
about how it was connected to my childhood and I never really sat with that idea.
Like that's something I'm going to have to say with that idea that am I protecting people
from me?
Because there's something, there's a, there's a nugget in there for me that I need to sit
with because in some way I am, and I don't know if I'm protecting, it's like, there's
(01:00:12):
another belief that follows that went up that says something like, you will always be misunderstood.
Your actions will always be misunderstood.
You'll always be, and maybe that's part of like the growing up being on diagnosed with
on diagnosed autism, but there's another belief there too.
So people are going to misunderstand you.
That misunderstanding is going to cause pain and struggle and chaos in your life.
(01:00:36):
So just shut the fuck up.
And that's my belief system.
That's all the time we have today.
And it's funny too, cause like if you talk about like masculine energy, when you went
into that, you know, there's always going to be somebody that's going to misunderstand
me.
So just shut the fuck up.
(01:00:56):
However, when you do your videos and somebody misunderstands you or takes something way out
of context that you said, you go through the anger, but you answer with love.
So like one of the things that I learned in my coaching classes was this thing called
(01:01:20):
the triad, right?
And it's, it's focused language and physiology.
So when you're out with your friends and you're like in here, how do you hold your body?
What's your posture like?
Generally, you know, shoulders more forward and slumped, right?
(01:01:41):
Caved in to myself.
If possible, I will find a corner, a corner of a couch, a blanket, like seriously covering
up as if I, as much as I can.
And so what like, so we know that the brain signals to the body, but the body also signals
to the brain.
So what is that signal into your brain?
(01:02:01):
Stay small.
I'm not safe.
So then you're going to create anxiety.
So tomorrow when you're with your friends and you're out of your four walls and you're,
and you feel your body crunch up, that's what they call it.
The Wonder Woman pose.
You know what I mean?
(01:02:22):
Like, and Wonder Woman, I mean, she was incredible.
Like, no matter what movie or shows you watch from like the eighties or very feminine, right?
But you got to take that confident pose, get your shoulders back.
That'll all automatically start signaling to your brain.
I'm okay.
Yeah.
Then the language that you're telling yourself.
(01:02:46):
So you have to change the language around the beliefs of what your femininity is.
You now get the, the joy of defining what feminine is for you, not for anybody else.
And we all have both feminine and masculine tendencies to us.
(01:03:07):
You know, like, like I was saying, like in that Sunday school class I went to, I have,
there's a lot of feminine tendencies that I have.
I am emotional.
I talk about emotions, you know, all that stuff.
But if I got to, I'll scrap whatever, you know what I mean?
I used to love fighting.
Now if I do, I can't move for a week just because I'm older, you know?
(01:03:32):
So it's not about feminine dominating masculine.
It's about having the balance of the two and knowing when for them to come out.
Then so it's going to be all that language changing that language.
And then the third part, the focus is like neuroscientists have seen like with those
fMRI machines and all that, that when brain cells, what's the little cliche saying when
(01:03:55):
brain cells wire together, they, or when they fire together, they wire together.
So you have years of built up neuro pathways.
And you know, like that little thing they always talk about, like, you know, there's
scientists estimate there's 10 to the eighth power of atoms in the entire universe.
Right.
So that's a one with 80 zeros.
And then there's 10 to the millionth power possible neural connections in our brain.
(01:04:19):
So one with a million zeros.
I try to print that out.
It would take an entire ream of paper to print out a million zeros front and back.
Right.
80 zeros will fit on one page, one page versus an entire ream.
That's the power of our mind that we have to create life for us.
But that's also the power that we have to overcome.
(01:04:43):
So the only way to do this is by practicing.
Right.
So whenever you catch your focus, bullshitting on femininity, you got to catch it, change
that language and then change your focus.
What is feminine to you?
(01:05:04):
And then practice being feminine.
So like your homework, dude, would be seduce the hell out of your husband, because in that
moment, and I guarantee you this, like for like any woman that's listening, you could
be so feminine that you can ask your your your husband, your whatever to do anything.
(01:05:28):
And he will obey like, like he is like one of those lions in the circus that are just
whipped into submission.
Like the power of the femininity, like of a feminine woman can control men, the toughest
guy in the world.
(01:05:50):
You know, so start practicing the femininity, not that you believe you should have, but
practice the femininity that is right for you.
Because even I love all of that.
I'm like, I mean, not to get like too risqué and stuff, but like, I mean, sometimes like
(01:06:15):
women even dominating that can be incredibly feminine, but also very powerful.
You know, like, I mean, that's just the whole thing you can play with that that can teach
you how to use your femininity.
And then also bring your marriage closer together.
(01:06:40):
Yeah, my thought is something like, okay, I like all this.
I need to spend some time with it.
And what would opening the door about the width of my big toe look like?
(01:07:01):
That's what I'm ready to open the door.
What would that look like?
I'm ready to practice a big toes with.
Yeah.
Big toe in the door of this concept, like idea and concept.
And that's all.
Yeah.
And that's beautiful.
I mean, yeah.
Because like, if you just like jump out of an airplane with it, like that that could
(01:07:27):
like backfire, you know, and in my mind, like backfire, like where you're, it just overwhelms
your nervous system.
Right.
Yeah.
Crack that door open, you know, the visualizations that you can, I mean, visualize what you want
to do.
And in your head, you could be as feminine, as sensual, as dirty as you want to be.
(01:07:50):
You know what I mean?
And then crack that door open a little bit and see what feels okay for you, what you
can handle in the moment.
You know, maybe it's, I don't know, candles or something like just, you know, a bunch
of candles around, then maybe it's an outfit.
(01:08:11):
You know what I mean?
And then it just kind of goes from there.
But then, I mean, femininity is beyond just the sexual to things too as well.
Yeah.
No, I see it in creation, right?
And I see it in other creators.
Yeah.
(01:08:33):
I think that's all really good.
I think I might visualize my party tomorrow.
Yeah.
I think I might visualize the walls that would be fun.
And then I think I'll just bring a lot of awareness, like you said, to my body language
and also to any time I'm not giving my opinion because it's different than everybody else's.
(01:09:02):
I think that because of the way that I'm built for whatever reason, and maybe this is a lot
of the autism, I think differently than a lot of people.
And I imagine that that's my gift going forward in the future.
But damn it.
I mean, it's challenging right now.
(01:09:23):
So thank you for this, Keith.
This has been a really beautiful, beautiful session.
And it has moved me forward.
See, and it's funny too, because like in my head, I'm like, I sucked.
I didn't do it.
You know what I mean?
So it's that same process.
We all have that negativity bias.
(01:09:46):
Yeah.
But you show up, you practice, you do it anyway, all the things that you told me to do.
And then, yeah, that's another good thing to remember is that self perception is at
least right now seen through like gray colored glasses.
Right?
(01:10:06):
I'm going to see myself as more unattractive or whatever my bad characteristics are that
I judge than anybody else is going to.
Yeah.
Yeah, because I see you as incredibly feminine.
Yeah.
I think it's, I mean, yeah, there's a part of it, but all of this is really just opening
(01:10:31):
up.
I mean, we could probably do 100 sessions on this topic, right?
Because it's opening up so much.
But you reminded me it was like three new years ago, we had a party and I did this activity
where I like colored Mason jars and put everybody's name on a different Mason jar.
(01:10:51):
And then on the table was like little scraps of paper and different colors and stuff.
And I encouraged everybody write kind messages to everybody and put it in the right jar,
right?
And then every year long, everybody has their jar from their friends with little messages.
I never read mine.
Like sitting down and taking in that much love was uncomfortable for me.
(01:11:16):
That's a big clue right there too.
Right?
But see, it's all this sort of thing about like my relationship with other people and
how they perceive me and how I perceive me and like it's a big container.
And so I think one of the biggest takeaways for me in this session is just, hey, I need
(01:11:40):
to explore this more.
This is something I put on the back burner for a while because I've been focused on other
things, healing my burnout, getting back to my center.
But now if I want to go out into the world, which I do in a really authentic way, this
is something that has to be tackled.
And that last part is so interesting because to me, feminine is about receiving.
(01:12:07):
Yes.
Yes.
And if you feel unworthy to receive love.
Yes.
That's it.
That's it.
Yeah.
It has to do with receiving.
Yeah.
Man.
Like if you tell me like, why don't you just see how much you could receive from everybody
(01:12:29):
who's there to celebrate you at your party tomorrow?
I'm like, fuck you, buddy.
You don't tell me to do that.
We will throw hands, sir.
I'll fight you before that happens.
Oh my lord.
Dude, I think that practice for me.
(01:12:51):
I think that would be, oh man, if you're up for it.
Yeah.
So maybe the next one I'll report how I received love and everybody can watch me grow on this
topic.
Yeah.
This is beautiful.
(01:13:11):
And it's great because in building my business, this is something we've talked about before.
Like do I feel comfortable with 10 people liking my posts, a million people liking my
posts, how much love am I willing to receive even in my professional life?
And right now I got a glass ceiling.
Yeah.
(01:13:32):
Right up against a glass ceiling with my friends and my business and everything with
as much love as I'm willing to accept.
And.
Yeah.
Which is so because I'm the same way.
And it's so funny because we're both so connected with the universe and cosmos and this idea
of infinity.
But when it comes to, for me, success for you receiving love stuff, we have this box
(01:13:57):
that we're in, even though we love the idea of infinite expansion.
Yes.
Yes.
Yeah.
That just got to me.
Wow.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Thanks again, Keith.
(01:14:17):
There's just a lot of good, good wisdom that came out of this.
And I'm guessing a lot of people can relate because we're all humans, right?
We all have some version of playing small or being in a box or when we're really.
Really teaches us that from the get go from the moment that we sit down in school, we
(01:14:42):
lose the complete freedom of play, you know, and exploring and all that.
And then it's just structure.
And we're told that structure is what we need and stuff.
But some of the greatest minds out there couldn't, I mean, Einstein failed school, you know,
(01:15:02):
because he couldn't deal with that structure, but look at his mind.
You know, I mean, you, I look at you as an amazing coach, mentor, friend, and imagine
if you lost the, like those, that parenthetical structure and you were just open to the infinite
(01:15:23):
power and abundance and creativity that we all are as people.
Yeah, that'd be amazing.
Are we ready for that?
Can we?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And what does it really look like to tread that path, that journey, right?
(01:15:48):
Because like we always talk about, we talk about destinations, but really you never
get anywhere.
You're just always on the journey.
So a person who has connected to that sort of infinite, cosmo level beingness, what
is their daily practices?
(01:16:08):
How do they stay connected to that?
Right?
Because it's, it's something they're doing on their journey that is allowing for that
to happen.
And to me, that's an interesting question.
And maybe it starts with what we're talking about.
Maybe it starts with me visualizing my birthday party and accepting love and practicing being
(01:16:31):
expansive.
Yeah.
And for me too, man.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I got my pool match tonight and I know exactly what I'm going to do.
I'm going to sit there.
I'm going to close my mouth, not talk.
When people come up to talk to me, I'm going to be like, I don't want to be talking, just
(01:16:53):
leave me alone, you know?
So I mean, I'm not going to tell you to practice that.
And then so I'm going to have to practice talking to people tonight.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Shit.
And I think that this is common for introverts.
We have so much to offer the world, but how to do it is hard.
(01:17:18):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because we're always taught one way, you got to be that extrovert.
But I think introverts, man, maybe that's, we'll be the leaders of the introvert army,
dude, like changing the world without leaving the house, you know, type thing.
Love it.
(01:17:39):
All right.
Thank you so much, Kate.
I'm going to stop the recording.
Thank you everybody for witnessing my coaching session and my growth today, my investigation.
And Keith, thank you so much for holding a space for me.
Anytime, man.
Thank you for listening to the Chasing Thoughts podcast.
(01:18:01):
Please support us by liking, subscribing, or leaving a review or comment.
We would really appreciate it.
If you'd like to be a guest, we would love to explore life and what it means to be human
with you.
So please email us at chasingthoughtspodcast at gmail.com.
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