June 17, 2024 • 72 mins
Welcome to another thought-provoking episode of Chasing Thoughts, the podcast that dives deep into the complexities of the human experience. Join your hosts, Mindy and Keith, as they explore the vital topic of confronting inconvenient truths in our lives.
In this episode, Mindy and Keith discuss the challenges and rewards of leading an authentic life. They delve into why facing uncomfortable realities is essential for personal growth and how embracing these truths can empower us to live more meaningful and fulfilling lives. Tune in for an insightful conversation that will inspire you to confront your own truths and embrace the power of authenticity.
Chapters
00:00:00 Introduction
00:01:31 Thoughts on our last guest—John Lester
00:04:51 Judging ourselves and wanting to fit in
00:08:40 Living by our labels
00:15:10 Defining who we are
00:18:59 Inconvenient truths
00:25:27 The power and difficulty of living authentically
00:32:02 The benefits of going on this journey
00:46:15 Accepting your original story
00:59:38 Changing up our self talk
If you would like to know more about Mindy or Keith you can find them here:
Mindy Aisling (@mindyaisling)
Keith Dauch (@mastercheeseee)
More on Chasing Thoughts:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to the Chasing Thoughts podcast.
(00:03):
Listen in as Mindy, Keith and their guests
take a deep dive into their own minds and souls
to investigate the beauty of imperfection,
challenge their beliefs
and embrace the richness of living a truly authentic life.
Welcome to Chasing Thoughts.
Hello everybody and welcome to Chasing Thoughts.
(00:27):
It's season two. We think it's episode 22,
but as you know, Keith and I, as they say,
both like to smoke of the weed.
And therefore we sometimes,
if we don't check our notes before recording,
I forget the number.
So welcome to whatever episode this is.
(00:48):
Today we're going to talk about our last episode with John Leaster
and also about inconvenient truths in our life
and how to manage those inconvenient truths
and what that journey is like.
So hi.
When you said smoke of the weed,
you remember that Saturday Night Live episode
or like skit where it was like,
(01:09):
you like it a, you wasn't like you like it a pasta.
Good, like the weed's good.
And you know, a tiny bit of memory loss is worth
all of the benefits I receive.
Oh yeah. There's tons of stuff I wish I could forget, man.
(01:31):
So what was your takeaway from last week with John?
I thought about that episode a lot.
I feel like it really empowered me.
It made me feel very good.
Yeah. I ended up liking John so much.
Like I think he's like one of those guys that is like kind of
on the fringe, you know, but then like when you get to talk with
(01:53):
him, you're like, I want to spend a lot of time with this dude
and he could talk man.
Like he was and it wasn't from like,
like just rambling.
It was like a passion that he had.
Don't worry is his characters, his writing.
I absolutely loved him.
He was so cool.
(02:14):
Yeah, I thought so too.
I think first and foremost,
I think that was the way he made me confront my own judgments of
my brain, which is embarrassing to me, right?
Recognizing, talking about inconvenient truth, right?
One inconvenient truth that I realized during that episode is
I'm still judging people by what they look like, how they talk,
(02:36):
where they are, what they wear.
And I think that I've done work to lessen that,
but judgments came up for me.
I really worked to put them aside so that I could listen and pay
attention.
And when I did that, oh my gosh, like you said,
what a huge gift and what a wise person.
(02:57):
And it made me question like,
where am I missing the opportunity for like wisdom?
Because I'm judging something as a certain way.
And that was such a gift for me to go and investigate on my own.
And I was like, I don't want to have any wisdom, right?
Yeah. And I was right there with you.
(03:19):
And that's one of the things that I was so grateful to John for,
you know, because I want to live my life like where I can just be
who I am and not worry about other people's judgments.
But then I find myself being that person that I don't want to deal
with, you know, and I'm like, all right, dude, like there's,
(03:41):
there's a trigger there that I need to work on.
Yeah.
And I think it's kind of two sides of the same coin.
And I think it's actually something that John is free from.
So what we witnessed was him being free from judgment of self or
other.
And man, that's where that passion came from is because he didn't
(04:04):
have to censor or try to fit into a box or be.
A role of something, right? A character.
And it was really cool.
Yeah. And even when he was talking about his, his writing, you know,
he was talking about like, if nobody reads it or if one person,
like he writes for himself and he publishes these things for himself.
(04:28):
He doesn't care if, if one person reads it, if a hundred person,
people read it or it's just, it's just him, you know,
he's just a, he's a, he's a great person.
And he's still just as passionate.
About, about his characters and his writing as,
as if he was like Stephen King and like millions of people were,
(04:49):
were reading his stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It made me realize that.
I'm actually afraid. And sometimes I have these weird fear thoughts.
So, you know, I had a really chaotic, not great childhood.
And I think that's why I'm so excited.
And I think that my solution was fit into the square world,
(05:13):
be exactly perfect, be normal, like everyone else.
And as I'm starting to get away from that, I'm happier and happier.
But every once in a while.
I'll have like a really great meditation or I'll start getting more and
more out there with my writing.
And I'll think, Oh my gosh, who am I becoming?
Like, I don't want to meditate anymore. What if I become like a weirdo?
(05:34):
Like a natural fraud, fabrics and.
And then those are all things that I have judged.
Right. Or still have some judgment for.
And so there's like this.
I'm actually in some ways keeping myself from becoming whoever I'm
supposed to become.
Because I have the call to meditate.
I have the call to do these things.
My soul's pushing me in that direction.
(05:57):
But this fear is like, no, stay in your box.
Otherwise you're going to be a weirdo.
And I'm like, Oh, I'm going to be a weirdo.
I'm going to be a weirdo.
I'm going to be a weirdo.
Yeah. Yeah. And that's such a good point.
Me like judgment.
When we judge others, we imprison ourselves.
You know, because I'm the same way. Like I, I hate.
Wearing jeans. Like when I first started this business,
(06:19):
I remember like I went to a friend of mine and we were, we were talking.
And I'm wearing like jeans and a T-shirt. And I'm like, I hate jeans.
Cause like jeans are like so fricking stiff to me.
Like I want to be comfortable, dude. You know.
I'm like, why are you wearing them then?
And like, well, it's all, that's what I have.
That's what you're supposed to do.
Yeah. So I found like, like beach pants.
(06:41):
You know, there's, there's like hardly anything to them,
but I wear them in the winter. I just, I bought like long johns.
Like to wear underneath them.
And I'm like, I'm, I want to be that guy.
But then I judge people.
That are, are kind of further along that path of me.
And then that holds me back from really accepting or not even except,
(07:03):
I guess not giving a shit about what other people think of me.
Yes. Absolutely. Yeah.
And that is freedom. Yeah.
That's real. I always think of that, uh, Bob Marley song.
I think there's a line that said like, uh,
escape mental slavery or something. I'm like, Oh,
that's what he was talking about. Like the, this mental slavery that we have
(07:27):
when we try to fit in.
Yeah. Yeah.
And it's, it's hard to break out of that. Like even like,
I remember in high school, we all wanted to be individuals,
but we would, we would get with a group and those would be the individuals
we would become. So we really just kind of.
(07:49):
You know, we kind of put ourselves into a group.
We had to put ourselves into a group.
You know, like when I was in school in the nineties,
we had like the greasers. Those were the, uh,
the guys who just like loved cars.
Um, you know, then you had like the hip hop guys, you know, um,
we had like so many different.
(08:16):
I had friends like everyone, but I always felt like an outsider.
You know, and even nowadays, like, I see so many videos like where people are against labels.
Don't label me this way.
Don't label me that way.
But then when they introduce themselves, there's a whole string of labels that they put on themselves.
(08:39):
It's one of the things like I've been thinking about like with mental health.
And I might have talked about this before, but I realized one day that that with all the stuff that I'm learning from social media.
I'm beginning to take this universe that's in my mind.
(09:00):
And bring it down and constrict it into a hospital waiting room that's all sterile and it's got like the bullshit posters that are like meaningless that you can buy from an office supply store or whatever, you know, and everything is just a label and like, oh, I'm in executive freeze right now.
And this like, I get the definition and I get the need for the definition, but I cannot live by that definition.
(09:30):
Yeah, because when I do, I'm like, oh, I'm an executive free. Oh, there's no I could do about that. You know, it's like, no, there's a lot I can do.
Yeah, it's actually sort of like kind of one of the elements you were talking about before we hit record where science says, we can't pinpoint actual matter or atoms or what's happening.
(09:53):
All we can describe is what they're doing. And that's the greatest so that we can know them. And that's kind of what you're saying is like, I have all this emotion or this thing happening.
I can't really describe it, but we're going to put executive freeze on it. And that's the best thing we can do to describe this thing that's happening.
But really this thing that happening could be moving a thousand different ways in a thousand different people.
(10:18):
But we just have this one label for it because it's the best we can do right now.
Right. And then and then we we constrict everybody that deals with this and one form or another into this, again, another box.
It's like society has these boxes for us. And then there's boxes and boxes was like those Russian nesting dollars. Yeah.
(10:41):
Like, all right, this is my label. I'm a white old dude in America. Okay, so that's that's one of the dolls in there and then underneath that I have PTSD and that's another down then underneath that.
There's depression. There's anxiety. There's executive freeze. There's neurodivergent, you know, and it's all this stuff. And then I feel like my brain becomes more full of stainless steel.
(11:07):
You know what I mean, like, all the surfaces are easily cleaned. You know, you probably have to have a crew come in there, you know, and spray it down with all that COVID stuff that they were doing.
Wow. And I'm like, no, my mind is a universe. And I don't want to lose that. You know, it's cool to understand what what what this is, but I can't live by that definition.
(11:35):
Yeah.
I have to live by the universe that's there.
I've been thinking a lot about that lately and it seems like we you and I have been circling this with the podcast is, you know, what is identity what are these labels. And there's a certain part of my humanness that likes to story things and label things and it makes me feel safe and good in my body to do so.
(11:59):
And here's a question I've been pondering. Is that a function of my humanity? Or is that a function of the society that I've lived in?
And I'm not sure what the answer is yet.
You know what pops in my mind immediately is in the book, the body keeps a score.
(12:21):
Bessel van der Kolk talks about one of the issues with trauma is when we go into that fight or flight state, certain parts of our brain begin to shut down because we don't need communication when we're running from a freaking bear in the woods, you know, because we're not going to stop
and be like, Hey, dude, can we talk about this? You know what I mean?
Like, I can't, I can't stop and be like, hold on, I got to use the bathroom real quick. So all that stuff stops.
(12:48):
You know, and in a healthy brain, we have a narrative that goes through our lives.
And that's what our brain wants. And one of the things that messes our brain up with trauma is that that narrative is dissected into pieces.
And I'm sure you can think back to your car accident to the parts of like, for me with the military, I don't know the timelines of things. I don't know when things happened. If it was multiple patrols, one patrol.
(13:20):
Totally.
I have no memory of that.
Yeah. Isn't that bizarre. My sister and I talk about that even the two of us together trying to timeline our childhood cannot do it.
Because both of us have like a traumatic childhood. And so we're like, wait, did that happen with this person or at this house or like, you know, the feeling and the memory, but the facts and the timeline of it are distorted from that whatever your whatever that trauma function is.
(13:50):
Yeah.
Yeah. And then our, since our brains are designed to not like chaos, like it wants it wants patterns, it wants to see things.
It keeps us focused on all of those divisions and that memory.
And, and it causes suffering for us.
(14:12):
Yeah.
So it's, but and the cool thing too is there's, there's, there was one sort of a therapeutic thing they did with acting.
And all they did was they created a narrative that in the moment.
Like they would have the, the person pick out people in this group, like, who do you want to play your mom and they would pick somebody who do you want to play your dad.
(14:40):
Okay. Who do you want to play?
Like your mom as she was like this person, you know, so they would describe their parents, their childhood, and that person would act like their mom and then what would you want your mom actually to say.
And then the other person would come in and fulfill that role.
And they said, yeah, the healing that went on because you created a new narrative.
(15:04):
Yeah.
You know, that that is so helpful.
Yeah, that sounds really cool.
Yeah, one thing I learned about recently was, I think it's called an ori key. And what it is is like that lineage that used to come after your name like you know when you used to go to a party and they'd be like, the judges, blah, blah, blah, like announce you.
(15:27):
So everybody knows the Game of Thrones one is like Daenerys House of Tigere and you're like mother of dragons. Right. And you have like five or six things that you say that like define who you are.
And so there's this woman who all of her work is about like helping people define their ori keys and I was like, oh that's so cool. And what's interesting to me is, I am attracted to defining myself, right, like making my own.
(15:57):
And I'm also attracted to just the I am with no definition.
Yes.
And so that's when I'm like, okay, is this just like my human part and my soul part having different needs and like loves, right, my human parts like, oh yeah, let's let's make a story about who we are.
Right. And then my like soul part my universe brain is like, no, let's just bask and be silent in the greatness of all that is.
(16:27):
Yeah, and I'm starting to come to the belief that the more we dive deeper into consciousness, the more these paradox paradox I begin to show up.
And that's one of them. You know, like where my biological being needs an identity but my consciousness is like I am. Yeah.
(16:50):
And you know, and that's just what it is, you know. So it's cool without an identity because you know when you know who you are you don't have to go around convincing people of who you are.
You just are you.
Yeah.
And that goes back sort of to what we were talking about about john's brilliance in the last episode is the closer and closer you get to authenticity I think those things start to align and you start to be both of those things in more moments both of those paradoxes are
(17:24):
happening in moments.
That's what I hope for.
Yeah, that was one thing that like I became envious of john about like I want his level of authenticity. You know, and from what I've heard like with vibrations like the highest vibration that we can reach which I thought was like the vibration of love or
(17:45):
something you know but is the vibration of authenticity.
It makes me question, like every second of every interaction I have like am I really being authentic, or, you know, like I was, I was talking with a buddy of mine.
And we're, he was going through some stuff so he was just like kind of venting and stuff and I was like, am I putting on like a mask and my putting on like, you know, the coach mask because I was like,
(18:12):
Oh, yeah, you know, and I'm like, why am I doing this shit? Yeah, relax just be yourself. You know, so it's it's hard. I think it's it's really hard to do but that consciousness aspect is like that.
It's still quiet breeze it just kind of blows through that gives us this intuitive feeling. It doesn't argue with us. It doesn't demand anything of us. But then our ego is like, no, no, and within seconds we'll have 500 different reasons why if we don't do something
(18:47):
or if we do do something it is going to destroy our world. You know, and and so then we put on those masks we put on those characters to fit into that box so that we could be safe.
Yes. And I think that exactly as those inconvenient truths where I have this tiny whisper that says, you need to meditate every single day to achieve your next like this is part.
(19:14):
And then the other part of me wants to shut it down right because it's inconvenient for me to do that. Not only in my daily life right in my busy important schedule, but also because I'm scared of what it will lead to.
Right and so having the ability to face those truths head on and make the changes necessary in your life.
(19:40):
I think building that skill is like the most valuable skill that you can build. Yeah.
And it's hard. It's really hard.
I mean, there's there's a commercial I think for for Hilton, like the hotels and stuff. And it's these two people that come in and they're like dressed like they're they're movie stars you know and they're demanding like cars and they're demanding special treatment for the dog and the
(20:10):
whole purpose of the thing is like, we treat everybody like a VIP, you know so at one point this lady takes off her sunglasses she goes. So you treat even just ordinary people like VIPs.
And for some reason, and I get mad at myself to like, why does this bother me, you know, because it's it's stupid but it bothers me because I'm like, there's not one ordinary person on this earth.
(20:36):
Yeah. But again our society has put us in that in this box of there are VIPs and those are the stars and and the politicians and the rich people and all that stuff. And then there's us.
You know, the rest of the world that just kind of is so easily forgotten about you know the workers the cops that's that's it. Yeah.
(20:58):
You know but we are all
the same. This were the same thing. Yeah.
Yes.
I know it's funny because that's kind of like I have a real like a version to elitism. Yeah.
But then, like I'm playing that game to at my own level.
(21:22):
And it's like, whoa, I was thinking after this last episode. I wonder what it would be like to just sit down and make a list of all the judgments that I have every judgment that I can recognize.
And then go out and challenge those judgments and ask people questions.
(21:43):
I thought that would be scary.
And I said that I'm like dude, my like vulnerability would have a seizure. Like, right.
Because I would not want to admit what I actually judge.
Yes.
Yeah. Isn't that interesting I had the same reaction I had the idea and then I was like wow that would be powerful and then I the next thought was like I'm never going to do that.
(22:15):
I think it's just like then I asked myself well how serious are you about your growth.
I was like well I guess that's serious. Right. To that line, not doing this thing that, but that's exactly what we're talking about right like some intuitive hit that's like, this could be an exploration for your soul.
And then my ego is like no.
That's an inconvenient truth, right.
(22:39):
You don't have to share it with anybody. Right. We all internal work.
Yep. You know, where you just keep track of your own thing and stuff like that but still the fear of sitting there and looking, because then it goes through like upseat your week, your week, you're not as good as you think you are like, and the ego just starts just dumping all over
(23:08):
you.
And I was like, I don't know about that and like, but why what what is the danger of that except that level of growth which then makes me think.
Is it really a fear of that growth.
Right. Yes.
Yes.
And it's like, this is my comfort zone.
(23:30):
I'm not in a depression.
There was this book that I loved so much. It was back when I was like a hardcore Christian, and it's called when the pieces don't fit God makes a difference and it's like little tiny book, but it's about this woman who actually listen to everything that God told her to do.
And God would be like, go here and do this. And she would do it right so we were talking about that in a different language we're calling it intuition. But it was her insanely magical amazing story about living from that space.
(24:05):
And just all the magic that happened and that's kind of what the celestine prophecy is about to write notice those feelings those coincidences lean into it go towards that stuff. And that's how your life is meant to unfold like humans were meant to unfold themselves
like that.
But we put ourselves in boxes.
So we don't do that anymore and therefore we don't grow.
(24:28):
Yeah.
And then like the weird thing too is then when we when we do that when we put ourselves in that box we like walk up to those walls that are like immovable and we're like see I'm strong.
Nobody can get in. I can't get out.
You know and then when somebody is just vulnerable and open.
You're like, oh dude, whatever man you're talking about feelings you're talking about this you're you're what you're such a bitch you know all this stuff.
(24:55):
And it's like that strength dude.
You know, you can have like the like some MMA fighter you know jacked out like somebody that can just destroy you with their pinky or whatever. You know and they can be so much weaker than some.
Yeah, just random dude that that accepts that level of vulnerability authenticity and does that work to open up because nothing.
(25:23):
Everything can touch him but nothing can hurt him. Yeah.
But and that was the beautiful thing with john like, yeah, I don't think there's anything that that I could have said to him derogatory that would be like, you just hurt my feelings.
You know what I mean like, because he's so full of self.
Yeah, authenticity that it, it can't even fit there. It doesn't.
(25:49):
It's like, you know, puzzle piece for it to stick to right where you say something and he has a belief of it so it sticks to it. He's just, yeah, beautifully free.
Yes, that's a guy like that beautifully free. Yeah, it's hard to do in practice though because like I have a situation. So Keith knows but I'm really trying to manifest or call all my family to live close to me.
(26:12):
And ideally I'd love to live all along the same like 10 acres with five houses right like that's my dream. But recently there has been some like things and communication styles and I'm uncomfortable and I feel sort of cagey.
And I don't know how to address it because I'm so scared of hurting someone's feelings or, or showing up like my fear of always being the bulldozer and pushing people to be a certain way or like.
(26:38):
Here's a situation where I have a desire, I think it's a pure desire of like bringing family together and having close.
And yet I don't know how to navigate it, like even with all my tools, even with, you know, my training as a coach, even with, I still am struggling and I think that's where it's sort of like where the rubber hits the road, where it gets sticky.
(27:04):
You know, that's one thing to show up true and follow all this within your own path, but then there's other people on your path to.
And you've got to account for them and their needs and communication style like all of them.
And I've been asking myself, okay, if I believe that we're all the same thing, does that help me find a path forward in this situation?
(27:35):
I don't know. I don't have the answer.
Because it like it's it's weird because yeah we all are the same thing but again another paradox but we're also all very different.
You can you can have two people that have the same experience and they're going to give different meanings to it and it's going to haunt them in different ways.
(28:04):
It's like they say no two people have the same childhood, even if your brother and sister because you're completely different you can't have the same childhood.
Yeah, that same kind of thing. Yeah.
Yeah, I remember reading and I forget what book this was in but it was a story about two fathers who lost daughters to murder.
(28:25):
And one of the fathers, what he did was he told everybody about how amazing his daughter was how, you know, everything that she taught him.
And he kept his love for her alive and he kept the memory of her alive and that was the way he honored the other guy.
(28:47):
Once a year he would go to the last diner that she ate at and that this was a diner that she laughed and then was was taken.
And he goes there to remember and it just makes him very angry.
And it's almost like he's stuck in that moment.
(29:08):
Yeah.
So you have two people with very similar horrific experiences, but dealing with it in two separate ways.
One is still horrific, but he's he's living life and you have the other one that is horrific and his life stopped in that moment.
(29:32):
You know, so it's it's so hard to do and I think that acceptance of who people are.
So remembering that yes, we are all the same, but we are also different.
So we, we, you know, we hold on to that sameness, but we accept the differences.
And that is so hard to do.
(29:54):
Yes.
So hard to do, man.
I love the way you said he was keeping his daughter alive by all these positive memories.
Because then when you told the second story, it was like he was keeping the murderer alive through his stories.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's good.
(30:15):
I mean, that's what I heard when you were telling it.
I was like, wow, that's powerful.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's very challenging to navigate all of all of our differences and stay true to ourselves.
It's a high calling.
Yeah.
It's, it's so much harder than I ever thought.
(30:42):
And if it wasn't for my faith that there is something magical on the other side of this fight, I would have, I would have like started being like a midnight stalker at a grocery store like years ago and just been like, you know, we're calling it quits.
I would have grown out like one of those university like the dudes that are bald on top, but they have like long hair like that would be me, my little comb over, you know, and just putting cans of corn on a shelf for the rest of my life.
(31:13):
They're like, you know, but I truly believe that there is something that is beyond magical that is out there that we can reach.
And I feel like certain times in my life, I've touched it.
Right.
And so then you're like, oh, there it is.
How, what do I need to align to touch it more frequently?
(31:37):
Yeah, yeah, like I'll get it.
I'll like slide in and be like, whoa, I got this.
You know, and then like 30 seconds later it's gone and I'm like, what the hell did I do to get into that spot? You know, and I can't remember, or I'll try it again.
It's like not working.
And I don't know, maybe that's the thing because it's just again, it's a wave, you know, so you're in, you're out, you're in, you're out.
(31:58):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think that for people listening, it would be good to talk about, even though it's hard, like the benefits of the journey to, like, why would you take this journey?
Like what if you're sitting there and you're, you know, scared and your relationships aren't fulfilling and your job's not fulfilling and you're just like, fuck it, I'll go through the motions till I die in this stupid capitalist society and your negative and cynicism is arising.
(32:33):
Like a lot of people are in that space right now and I fucking get it.
Right.
Like, I get it.
And also, that's, that's not going to help you.
It's not, that's not how ultimately we change our world, number one.
And two, that's suffering.
(32:54):
And so I think like as hard as, I like when people say like, choose your hard.
Right.
That journey is hard when you're just a slave to society, you're stuck in the cog in the system. You're not going out of your comfort zone.
So why is choosing this hard, challenging your beliefs, right?
(33:18):
Challenging your ego.
Why is it the better hard?
I know for me.
So for about 20 years, I lived stiffening control.
I was just thinking about, I'm thinking about that wave a lot and if you think about just like waves in the ocean, even ones that are destructive, they're fluid, you know, they're moving.
(33:45):
And do you ever see there, there was this movie like the after tomorrow where like everything froze like almost like immediately, like it was like global global warming disaster type type movie.
And there would be like waves that are moving and all of a sudden it just freezes.
I felt like that was my life, you know, like, I was just that solid and stiff and unmoving. So when things were happening that I didn't like, I had to figure out a way to control it.
(34:18):
And for me, the way to do it was anger.
You know, because when I'm read in the face screaming to Sandy and to my girls, I'm the most important person there.
Because they don't know what is going on. So I have complete control, even though I'm absolutely wrong.
(34:39):
Yeah.
You know, but that control is like stiff.
Yes.
You know, it's almost like beating someone with a baseball bat, and then you see somebody that like, you know, does a keto or Tai Chi or something like that that's fluid and moving and, you know, and and you see them, you know, work on somebody and it's like they they're not even breaking a
(35:06):
sweat, but they're flipping people around 800 times. That's that fluid motion where you're working with what you have, instead of being that brick wall to slam into.
Yeah.
You know, and I and, and so it comes down to that again like that acceptance.
Yeah, to accept what has happened to us.
(35:30):
We have to accept how other people are.
And we have to accept how we feel from moment to moment.
Yeah.
Yeah, you know, it's so funny what I heard you say or what I took away is like, so my response is not anger.
(35:51):
My my responses, fawning, right.
And then I thought, oh, that's interesting. We're both describing like reptile brain responses right by flight, freeze or fawn. But when I get, when I'm trying to live as I should and be a good girl.
I'm just people pleasing.
(36:17):
Good girl.
Yeah, that timing was perfect.
And so really what I hear you saying is to live with the hearts of, you know, living from soul and authenticity is really about living in your cortex, your thinking brain, your accepting brain, it's evolution happening.
(36:42):
Versus your reptile brain, which can only do a couple functions.
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, and it was it was beautiful when we were a prey species.
Right.
But like in one of the books that I read, open focus brain, it talked about how, you know, we went from moments of fight or flight to this chronic fight or flight response where, because things have gotten.
(37:12):
And when I say easy, I know people are suffering.
You know, there's there's wars going all over the world, you know, and life is not easy for those people. So when I say easy, I'm talking about like our situation, you know, where we're sitting in our houses, talking to being able to do this.
You know, but there's not the problems that we used to have, you know, for the most of us, like, even if I couldn't get to the store for another couple of days, like, I have tons of food in the house to eat where I can last for weeks, you know.
(37:47):
So there's these chronic psychological threats that come up.
You know, even like Friday nights, my pool night, and I don't like big crowds of people. So there's a couple of tables that they can put us where there's a wall behind me.
(38:08):
And I can see the whole of the pool hall.
I can feel good there. Then in the middle tables, you're just surrounded by everybody. So I'm already having anxiety, thinking about what's going to happen. Now, Zoe, like that, I guess.
(38:30):
So, no matter where I sit, though, nothing has ever happened. So I'm safe.
And I'm creating this, like this imaginary future oriented psychological threat that's causing me anxiety in my present moment.
And your thought is actually being the release of all those chemicals that are putting your body into that state, dysregulating your nervous system. So then it's a snowball, right? Because those chemicals are flooding your body and then your mind goes, oh, I really need to pay attention to what these chemicals are telling me there must be even a bigger problem.
(39:11):
Right.
Yeah, try to figure it out.
And then down the road you go to an anxiety attack.
Yeah. Yeah. And then my body, my brain is communicating with my body. My body is going back to my brain, you know, because like I even now, like I feel a little tension in my shoulders.
It's kind of coming up and I get ahead. I'm like, why do I have a headache? Oh, because I'm tense. Why am I tense? Oh, because of this, you know, because I'm thinking about this and my brain's like, oh, yeah, that's going to suck.
(39:35):
So here's some more cortisol. Here's some more anxiety, you know, so then I'm tense even more tense. So yeah, it's this loop that we get stuck in.
And for like the 10 years that I've been researching all of this, I've found that the only answer is, it's like a trust fall.
(39:59):
You know, but it's, it's like, what I got the universe consciousness. There's something that we don't know that we can't see, but we know is there that is going to catch me.
Yes.
And that's, that's terrifying.
Yeah. Yeah. And I think that is
(40:25):
living in that leap. Right.
That's where I think the most magic is. And obviously the most terror.
Yes.
But you know, it's interesting is what I've been questioning. So, you know how we describe that cycle.
Is there the positive flip side of that in my human body and psyche.
(40:53):
And then he will talk about when they say the word manifesting, like where I imagine something and it's so real in my present moment that I'm flooded with all the chemicals as if it had happened. So I think more good thoughts and then that happens and then, and why I mean, hardly
anybody's in that positive cycle. Most of us are all in this negative cycle, but it's got to be true both ways right it has to be just as powerful for the positive but when I think about the positive I'm like, Oh yeah, like that's like
(41:21):
magic.
For some reason there's like a negative connotation. If we think we can do that positively or you're a hippie or a weirdo, even though we all accept the negative one.
Yeah. Yeah. In fact, one of my one of my classes for coaching they did like this little experiment like he asked somebody like without without saying words.
(41:46):
You know, tell me depression. Just just in your body, you know, and the girl that was doing it was like so she like slumped over and her voice dropped and she was just looking down now making eye contact.
You know, and if you do that long enough you're going to start feeling it.
Yes, you know, like I get I give a talk at a university here and and we did that. And I was like, so, so just raise your hand when you start feeling depressed.
(42:15):
And within like I would say like 10 seconds like the first hand went up so I'm like, All right, cool. You know, which everyone's like oh that freaking great job just make everybody in the class horribly depressed.
You know, but when you start thinking like I was in, I was having a panic attack.
Last night I was watching band of brothers. And this came up where one when they were liberating one of the concentration camps and one of the inmates that was in the camp came up and hugged this GI.
(42:51):
And I had a similar experience in Bosnia where this old woman who had lost her family came up and hugged me and just started like weeping into my chest and I wasn't prepared for it and it just set some memories in motion.
So I was doing dishes after we ate and I was just looking out at this tree and I'm like dude that tree's got to be like 100 feet man.
(43:19):
And that's what I mean, right and then I felt like I felt better in my head but then I felt like I was standing up straighter.
I started humming, like, just a song, you know, so things started to happen with, I mean just naturally. Yes.
(43:40):
But the panic was still there.
So I had to accept that. That's a paradox yet, right. Yeah, like, okay, this is what I feel. This is why I believe this is the meaning I'm giving to I feel it because I saw this.
But I'm going to now actively put my, my, my focus on to something else.
(44:03):
And I have to hold it there. Understanding that the panic is still there, you know, because when I hold it there, expecting for the panic to go away. I'm still, that's when I Scooby do it, you know, like, like who's really behind this and I'm like okay I'm focused on trees and how they're amazing but you pull the mask off and it's like my panic is still there.
(44:25):
I'm focused on the panic. You know, I'm rid of it. Yeah, I'm staring at this tree so the panic goes away but when I, when I accept acknowledge and then kind of forget about it and then just be like, that tree must have been there for like a century at least like what did this land look like 100 years ago is all farmland and
everything and, you know, that's when things started to change.
(44:50):
Yeah.
You know, so it's
the thing that really speaks to, you know, authenticity and the highest vibration and how we're talking about that is eat when you learn how to hack yourself.
Right hack your body hack your mind hack your.
That's where you can become more and more authentic, because you're not just letting, you know, these past experiences or this chemical or this thought run this show.
(45:20):
You're like, no, I'm going to run this show. I know how to hack my own system, bring it back online.
And so I think it's a much more positive experience of life, even though it's challenging.
Yeah. Yeah, and it's just it's just understanding that if we can observe some with we can observe something then we're inherently not that thing.
(45:45):
So, if I'm observing my thoughts I'm not my thoughts so who am I.
You know, and then that's where that I am comes in I'm consciousness.
So, in those moments I try to step up into that higher level.
And, and just live in consciousness.
(46:06):
And I don't know how to do it. It's everything is like trial and error in the moment. You know, but that's the search that I'm on.
You know, when I when I see people and again here's there's something to sound like crazy and stuff but when I see people like, yeah I was meditating and then this interdimensional being came to I'm like, is that true like I want that to happen I want to know if it's true.
(46:31):
You know, death is just going into a new dimensional plane I'm like, I want that I want to know if it's true before I die you know what I mean like, I want all these answers and that's where I want to get.
And I couldn't do that until I accepted my original story.
Yes.
(46:52):
You know, and I think that is one of the hardest things for people to do.
Yeah, except your original story with the responsibility.
Right because like there's a big difference in my mom did these things to me, she owes me this she owes me that she didn't do this, which all might be true. She might owe me those things right, but believing that story keeps me down.
(47:24):
Yes. And so being, I don't know if the words mature enough or evolved enough to say that thing happened and I did deserve all those things.
But you know what I'm going to let this other person off the hook, because keeping them on the hook is keeping me down.
Yeah, forgive move on except back to the acceptance right and rise above this story that I have.
(47:52):
But that's much easier said than done in our lives right. Oh my God dude.
I've been like 20 years to finally like accept because everything was about blame blame say me blame the church. I blamed like everybody and everything, you know, except me even to the point like somebody's driving too slow.
(48:22):
And I'm like, I'm not going to blame. Yes, like this happened to me. You know, I was mugged or whatever. It doesn't mean it was your fault.
But it means that now this has happened. And because now it's happened. It's almost like things are set in stone but they're set in stone and the in the moment that it happens.
(48:45):
Because there's so many variables that can have that can that can come along the way that that can put you on a different track or whatever but whatever so that this is what happened at that point set in stone and it is what it is.
But now I have a responsibility of saying this happened to me. And this wasn't my fault. And this was horrific. And in this thing I was a victim. But I'm not going to live in the victim mentality. Now I have the responsibility to deal with this in the best way that I possibly can.
(49:17):
Yeah. Yeah, I used to love Dan Milman who wrote way the peaceful warrior. And why I actually went and saw him and did a workshop with him and he did Tai Chi and it was just like the best day.
But he told this story. He said so you know there's a group of guys and every day when this guy opens his lunch pail he's like a peanut butter and jelly man and complains about his lunch the next day a peanut butter.
(49:44):
And so finally one of his friends goes dude just pack yourself something else like why are you complaining about this, or ask your wife to pack you something else. And he goes my wife doesn't pack my lunch I do.
Right. And so the same kind of analogy like I start my day. Here's my story about how my mom did me wrong and here's my story about how much my job sucks and my boss doesn't appreciate me and here's my okay I'm going to go off with this lunch pail and live my day.
(50:11):
Well you know what your day is going to look like we can all guess because the ingredients are there. But yet we do that over and over and over and over again every single day of our life.
And because we believe we have to like that's a form of slavery right like it at mental slavery.
Yeah, yeah. I mean I did that for so freaking long waking up just hating the fact that I was conscious again, you know, and, and there's still some days like today I woke up. Boom, anxiety attack right because I Friday it's pool.
(50:51):
That was my first thought, you know, and I was like, son of a bitch, you know, like that happens and stuff but it's, it's a prison.
Yes. And we and the thing is is like we are our own wardens to, you know, we have the keys and we keep ourselves locked up and again that's not to blame because it's, we do it for safety.
(51:18):
So it's a good thing. It's a good reason for doing it. However, it just causes more suffering in the long run, and there's more freedom and stepping out of the prison of safety and and and beginning to live life again.
(51:39):
Yeah. And I think that goes back to knowing your hacks like I had a day like that two days ago, you know my family's in town. I'm seeing way more people than usual.
And I'm an introvert, we're running around looking at houses so I'm out in the, you know, it's just been kind of chaotic.
I'm like, I'm just full of anxiety, right, upset stomach, all the stuff. And I'm like, okay, I, I would have at one time, just canceled everything and stayed in bed or stayed home.
(52:13):
But now, what are my hacks. Okay, I'm going to do a 10 minute meditation. I'm going to visualize my day. I'm going to look my eyes in the mirror and talk to myself for a couple minutes.
I'm going to listen to calming music on my way up, you know, my drive up to the house. And then one thing that really helps me that surprised me is, I have a tendency when feeling anxious to, like you said not look people in the eye not have deep conversations.
(52:40):
But when I force myself to be like, Hi, how you do like and connect the anxiety. It has to take a backseat when I'm in that moment of connection with another person.
And because I have all these hacks. I think it was like by lunchtime, I go, Oh, I don't feel anxious anymore.
(53:01):
Yeah. And I was thinking that it was going to be one of those nights where I went to bed early and did all my anxiety. And then I just surprised myself and I'm like, Oh, my hacks are getting good.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And like the more you practice it, the easier it becomes, you know, because you're creating new neural pathways because that's the stuff that keeps us stuck. There's those the pathways like when we keep thinking those habitual thoughts, I'll peanut butter and jelly again.
(53:26):
You know, even though you're the one making your lunch, you know, it and it we can become addicted to those those chemicals that are released so that when we don't feel all that adrenaline and all that cortisol in our system, you know, our body is like what the hell's going on.
You know what I mean. So we're not used to the other side of like the better chemicals.
(53:48):
You know, and then that's what that also is what makes it so easy to run the dopamine.
Mm hmm. You know, because I can go smoke some weed and get a hit of dopamine. I can go drink and get a I can go like knee deep in a bag of Doritos and and you know dopamine is running crazy.
You know, but it's, it's bleeding.
Yeah.
(54:09):
Yeah, I think the other reason why we hold on to those negative stories, at least for me is because I want to be heard.
I want this person to know what happened or know what they did. So I'm going to stick to the I can't let go of the story or I'm never going to feel heard and acknowledged.
(54:32):
It's just, it just doesn't work that way. Right. So for me, I remember when I was like a teenager thinking, I'm going to write everything that happened to me and my childhood in books and every the whole world's going to know right then I'll feel really heard.
And then I realized like, I'm like that poisoning yourself thing right like this isn't the way that I stopped feeling this need to be acknowledged is to do the inner work acknowledge myself take responsibility of it, let it go.
(55:05):
And now when I look at those situations like particular with my mom, I don't need her to do anything for me.
Right.
She doesn't ever need to acknowledge my story for my story to be true, because I gave myself permission to be the expert on my story and be the only person that can define my truth.
Yes. Yes.
(55:28):
And when you get to that place, and you let other people off the hook.
All of a sudden there's a huge like
I feel so good.
Yeah, I've gotten I've gotten to the point where people come up to me and tell me I'm stupid.
(55:49):
Tell me I'm an idiot. I'm wrong. What, whatever.
You know, it was one social media helped me out with that because there was plenty of there's always plenty of you know that.
I'm good. I can take that and I can respond in a good way. And it was funny because the thing that brought this up was a video that I made a long time ago.
(56:12):
And it was in response to one of the guests that we had Angela talking about grief and how and Angela said that there is no destination for grief in this and I put I did a video on that somebody responded.
And I said, you know, I'm not sure if it's true. You know, it's acceptance acceptance is the destination. You know, and I got to I got a comment on that video this morning about how this really resonated with this person and, you know, because 10 years
(56:42):
later they're still dealing with the grief it's not as bad but there's those moments where it comes up.
I'm not good enough with it yet where I can stop doing it to myself.
Yeah.
You know, so I can have anybody come up to me and be like, you're a freaking idiot man you wasted your life you're a bum blah blah and I'm like, All right dude, like have an awesome day man, you know, but then I go inside, you know and I and I'm like, All right I'm going to start working like
(57:15):
you're stupid, you know, you're not smart enough, you don't have enough credentials. Who do you think you are, you know, and, and that.
Nope that that kicks my ass.
Yeah, you know what would be another fun kind of homework assignment is to like have a piece of paper and draw a line down the middle and be like, things that can still hurt me that other people can say that I say,
(57:43):
here's all the all the areas I haven't accepted or healed right I'm not finished this is work to be done, because I can think of some things that people can still say that would hurt my feelings.
Yeah.
And so obviously that's an area where I need more self acceptance.
(58:04):
Yeah, that one's fun. And the inner thoughts right what's one of my inner thoughts still trip me up.
So take me for a loop.
So many clothes man, they're driving me crazy.
Yeah. And I think with those did the job. I think that's where love can be really powerful.
(58:30):
Yeah. So you take this thought of like, you're a stupid piece of shit no one's going to believe you and you're like, oh, come here thought like, oh, yeah, just think that like, oh, you're okay.
Yeah, just soften up all that right because that thoughts painful. So we could just soften it up with a little love. Okay.
(58:52):
Yeah. Yeah.
Any engagement or fight with that thought is just going to grow that thought right.
Right. Yeah. Yeah, it's so cool because I heard this story about an old old guy he was like a master of some type of martial art.
And he used to do a thing like, you know, because as you grow older things to start hurting for no no apparent reason.
(59:18):
Like his elbow hurt and he was he just like grab his always like poor elbow. You know, this is a dude that can like, just tear you apart like when he wanted to and he talks so softly to himself.
You know, without judgment without like, oh, this shouldn't be happening. I should still be strong and not like, well, it just is what it is.
Yeah. I would say that that my self talk is the single most powerful thing that I've changed in my life that has contributed to like, more joy success piece, you know, whatever we all want is being nicer to myself.
(59:59):
It's weird, right? Like, the things that I say to myself, if somebody else said it, I would try to knock them out.
Yeah.
But I say it to myself and I'm like, yeah, it's true.
And how much I was like sabotaging myself before someone else or something else could sabotage me right so I'm like, oh, I want to call this person I met at a party. Oh no they they probably thought you were stupid and they would never want to be your friend so I don't make the call.
(01:00:34):
Right. Oh, I'd love to work with that job that company. I should, you know, give them a proposal. No, they're going to think you're dumb so I don't ever send the proposal.
I would say that I'm going to be a series of like, self self sabotaging based on these thoughts that aren't real at all.
Yeah.
Yep.
(01:00:55):
Yeah. And so before we start I was telling you about that video I saw.
She was a psychologist talking about how she she put up a video about accepting those things that happen to us.
And self self talk is is major when it comes to that.
And she said that she had so much pushback about how no, like we cannot accept what happened we can change it you know like all this stuff which it's like no you can't unfortunately we can't go into the past and change something.
(01:01:33):
My whole thing has been learn how to take PTSD and make it integrated into the foundation of who I am so it becomes a strength that I can stand on instead of a thing that controls me and imprisons me.
And we get into those things because of our self talk.
(01:01:59):
You know, like when we allow that self talk to run free range like like our chickens, you know, it's going to go negative naturally.
And it's going to keep us locked up it's it's going to and then with all of the messaging that comes in, you know, from from commercials and social media and society as a whole like making us feel less than if I don't use this brand of toothpaste, you know,
(01:02:28):
I don't own, you know, this thing, you know, it doubles down on all that so if we can learn to talk better to ourselves.
You know that can change that that'll eventually change our belief system.
And I love the way that you said that you're taking your PTSD and integrating it into who you are in a way that it can actually help you right it's moving you forward.
(01:03:02):
And I think that's such a powerful message because I think a lot of us are like, well as soon as my anxiety gets under control then I'll be able to be this do this thing.
I'm not depressed anymore I'll do this, or as soon as I get on the right, right there's all these stipulations for why we can't be doing the work we really called to do, because we're not perfect enough to do it yet.
(01:03:24):
And I heard somebody say something once and it has stuck with me this was like, I was probably in seventh grade at like a Christian conference, and, and the person said, Do you have to get cleaned up to take a bath.
And I was like, that's such an interesting thought right like doing the work of self acceptance and positive self talk and, and being out there courageously spreading my message that is my bath.
(01:03:52):
Right, that's how I'm shedding and becoming more pure. So why do I need to get cleaned up before I do that.
That is the process.
Yeah, if you don't have to get rid of it you can be the most powerful amazing person with your PTSD it doesn't have to go away.
Yes.
(01:04:14):
And I don't, I don't think I want it to go away. Yes, yes.
You know, and I, and that that's one place that I have made progress with myself talk, because so being being the first troops into Bosnia like Bosnia was not a deployment like Iraq and Afghanistan.
(01:04:37):
So I was always like, Why were you so weak, where that affected you like that. And I know at least one other person will couple other people that were affected, one from my unit and then another guy that I met.
So I'm sure there's there's others. But I used to just shit on myself, like I'm a coward, I'm weak. And I finally got into the place of you know what dude, you were 19 years old, you were a kid, you grew up.
(01:05:10):
I would say like sheltered because I was in that strict like I couldn't have friends outside of church I did but I couldn't it wasn't really supposed to date girls outside of church. We were in church Sunday morning Sunday night, Wednesday night, either Friday or Saturday youth group
Thursday was we would go out and send out tracks, you know, Saturday was like street preaching so everything revolved around the church. And I finally got to the point of like dude you were 19.
(01:05:40):
Your experience is growing up meant that this is the way it affected you.
It's okay you did your freaking best dude.
I can look back and be like yeah I made some bad decisions, but I made those bad decisions came from being in this chaotic mindset where I didn't know what the hell was wrong with me.
(01:06:02):
You know, I did my fucking best.
Why am I going to be mad why am I going to judge myself and put myself down about that.
Yeah.
You know, because all that's only those going to do is keep me more locked up.
Instead of just learning to forgive myself.
Yeah.
(01:06:23):
All right so let's before we close. Take a couple seconds, if you're willing, and think about an inner self talk that you're still struggling with, and we'll both share it in the spirit of vulnerability.
(01:06:45):
My mind comes like, almost like trying to like, like slam just out of my skull like, you know, right out is I'm worthless.
That that that one word, I can hate that word, because it goes through my head a million times a day.
(01:07:06):
Does your brain come up with like data and stuff to like, because of this because of this this is why I can prove it to you. Yeah.
I'm not smart enough.
You know, like, and then even like when my brain is like, yeah, but dude, you're the first person in your family to get a college degree.
And I think like I ended, I was so mad I was so close to a 4.0 like 3.8 something. You know, so I graduated with like high honors.
(01:07:34):
And, and I had for my senior thesis I interviewed this lady from Yale who was like, dude, you can get into Yale so easy.
You know, but I never pursued it because, no, you're too stupid that's for other people.
Yeah.
And that's something that still has so much control over me.
(01:07:56):
Yeah.
Yeah, it's kind of like that thought. It needs to be like what you're doing with your PTSD and anxiety where you're like, okay, just you're in the sidecar, come along on worthiness.
You can come for the journey.
Right.
Because, yeah.
I would say for me right now, I'm really struggling with self beat up around.
(01:08:23):
My life is really good right now. Right. I love it. I have a great husband we have enough money. I'm not having to work like a slave like I have most of my life, you know, 50 60 hours a week.
And I feel so, I guess it is on worthiness to like guilty.
(01:08:46):
And I'm not sure how much I have, and how much like other people don't have, and all the suffering in the world and I think, all these other people are suffering.
I should suffer too, or like, who am I to not suffer. Right. Like there's a weird catch up in my brain. And then on the other hand, I want to continue to be more successful and have more money and right.
(01:09:10):
And I'm really realizing that this is like a sabotage, right it's a limiting belief.
But how can I be so proud and go online and be like my life's great. Everybody work with me. I know how everything, which is what I feel in my heart, without being a fucking asshole.
And I don't know that yet.
(01:09:33):
Right, I'm still struggling with that.
Good luck.
Yeah, because I was a good Indian like it.
But I said that's my life coach certification right there.
(01:09:55):
Right now, I'm just being present with it right.
This is happening, and I don't know how to think differently. All the thoughts I try to replace it with and belief systems I try to replace it with don't sound true to me.
But I'm just bringing awareness to it and awareness to it and trusting that the answer is going to come.
(01:10:17):
Yeah, and that's and that's, I that's the sweet spot because you're not judging it. You're not living in the truth of of it.
But acknowledging and accepting that it's there, you know, like in a lot of cases, I am worthless.
You know, if I signed up for the PGA tour.
(01:10:39):
I would, I would be pretty worthless.
You know what I mean, like if the New York Giants call me I'd be like dude we need you quarterback and Sunday, you know, whatever football starts up again.
Like, ain't gonna happen. I'm going to be worthless. So it's okay to be worthless.
Yes, I love that.
Yeah, in the context that it comes in, you know, but when it comes to my life.
(01:11:06):
I'm not and I think the thing is is like, I have that belief because I've let that thought run free in my mind.
You know, so what I'm trying to do is when I when I see it when I catch it.
I bring my mind bring my focus to reasons that I'm not worthless to Sandy, you know, to my kids to my family to friends, you know, to you to this podcast, you know, like, all that stuff.
(01:11:40):
I love how you called your thoughts like free range chickens because I can totally picture like a negative thought in my head all like, like, like, looking at all like the positive things like, oh, I'm going to destroy this I'm going to pluck it this and like whoa chicken's like come back right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We got we got to put you in one of those like Purdue barns with no light and stuff like that.
(01:12:03):
All right, well that was great. Thank you everybody for joining us. Good, good show.
Thank you for listening to the chasing thoughts podcast. Please support us by liking, subscribing or leaving a review or comment. We would really appreciate it. If you'd like to be a guest, we would love to explore life and what it means to be human with you.
(01:12:24):
Please email us at chasing thoughts podcast at gmail.com.
Welcome to the Chasing Thoughts podcast.
(00:03):
Listen in as Mindy, Keith and their guests
take a deep dive into their own minds and souls
to investigate the beauty of imperfection,
challenge their beliefs
and embrace the richness of living a truly authentic life.
Welcome to Chasing Thoughts.
Hello everybody and welcome to Chasing Thoughts.
(00:27):
It's season two. We think it's episode 22,
but as you know, Keith and I, as they say,
both like to smoke of the weed.
And therefore we sometimes,
if we don't check our notes before recording,
I forget the number.
So welcome to whatever episode this is.
(00:48):
Today we're going to talk about our last episode with John Leaster
and also about inconvenient truths in our life
and how to manage those inconvenient truths
and what that journey is like.
So hi.
When you said smoke of the weed,
you remember that Saturday Night Live episode
or like skit where it was like,
(01:09):
you like it a, you wasn't like you like it a pasta.
Good, like the weed's good.
And you know, a tiny bit of memory loss is worth
all of the benefits I receive.
Oh yeah. There's tons of stuff I wish I could forget, man.
(01:31):
So what was your takeaway from last week with John?
I thought about that episode a lot.
I feel like it really empowered me.
It made me feel very good.
Yeah. I ended up liking John so much.
Like I think he's like one of those guys that is like kind of
on the fringe, you know, but then like when you get to talk with
(01:53):
him, you're like, I want to spend a lot of time with this dude
and he could talk man.
Like he was and it wasn't from like,
like just rambling.
It was like a passion that he had.
Don't worry is his characters, his writing.
I absolutely loved him.
He was so cool.
(02:14):
Yeah, I thought so too.
I think first and foremost,
I think that was the way he made me confront my own judgments of
my brain, which is embarrassing to me, right?
Recognizing, talking about inconvenient truth, right?
One inconvenient truth that I realized during that episode is
I'm still judging people by what they look like, how they talk,
(02:36):
where they are, what they wear.
And I think that I've done work to lessen that,
but judgments came up for me.
I really worked to put them aside so that I could listen and pay
attention.
And when I did that, oh my gosh, like you said,
what a huge gift and what a wise person.
(02:57):
And it made me question like,
where am I missing the opportunity for like wisdom?
Because I'm judging something as a certain way.
And that was such a gift for me to go and investigate on my own.
And I was like, I don't want to have any wisdom, right?
Yeah. And I was right there with you.
(03:19):
And that's one of the things that I was so grateful to John for,
you know, because I want to live my life like where I can just be
who I am and not worry about other people's judgments.
But then I find myself being that person that I don't want to deal
with, you know, and I'm like, all right, dude, like there's,
(03:41):
there's a trigger there that I need to work on.
Yeah.
And I think it's kind of two sides of the same coin.
And I think it's actually something that John is free from.
So what we witnessed was him being free from judgment of self or
other.
And man, that's where that passion came from is because he didn't
(04:04):
have to censor or try to fit into a box or be.
A role of something, right? A character.
And it was really cool.
Yeah. And even when he was talking about his, his writing, you know,
he was talking about like, if nobody reads it or if one person,
like he writes for himself and he publishes these things for himself.
(04:28):
He doesn't care if, if one person reads it, if a hundred person,
people read it or it's just, it's just him, you know,
he's just a, he's a, he's a great person.
And he's still just as passionate.
About, about his characters and his writing as,
as if he was like Stephen King and like millions of people were,
(04:49):
were reading his stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It made me realize that.
I'm actually afraid. And sometimes I have these weird fear thoughts.
So, you know, I had a really chaotic, not great childhood.
And I think that's why I'm so excited.
And I think that my solution was fit into the square world,
(05:13):
be exactly perfect, be normal, like everyone else.
And as I'm starting to get away from that, I'm happier and happier.
But every once in a while.
I'll have like a really great meditation or I'll start getting more and
more out there with my writing.
And I'll think, Oh my gosh, who am I becoming?
Like, I don't want to meditate anymore. What if I become like a weirdo?
(05:34):
Like a natural fraud, fabrics and.
And then those are all things that I have judged.
Right. Or still have some judgment for.
And so there's like this.
I'm actually in some ways keeping myself from becoming whoever I'm
supposed to become.
Because I have the call to meditate.
I have the call to do these things.
My soul's pushing me in that direction.
(05:57):
But this fear is like, no, stay in your box.
Otherwise you're going to be a weirdo.
And I'm like, Oh, I'm going to be a weirdo.
I'm going to be a weirdo.
I'm going to be a weirdo.
Yeah. Yeah. And that's such a good point.
Me like judgment.
When we judge others, we imprison ourselves.
You know, because I'm the same way. Like I, I hate.
Wearing jeans. Like when I first started this business,
(06:19):
I remember like I went to a friend of mine and we were, we were talking.
And I'm wearing like jeans and a T-shirt. And I'm like, I hate jeans.
Cause like jeans are like so fricking stiff to me.
Like I want to be comfortable, dude. You know.
I'm like, why are you wearing them then?
And like, well, it's all, that's what I have.
That's what you're supposed to do.
Yeah. So I found like, like beach pants.
(06:41):
You know, there's, there's like hardly anything to them,
but I wear them in the winter. I just, I bought like long johns.
Like to wear underneath them.
And I'm like, I'm, I want to be that guy.
But then I judge people.
That are, are kind of further along that path of me.
And then that holds me back from really accepting or not even except,
(07:03):
I guess not giving a shit about what other people think of me.
Yes. Absolutely. Yeah.
And that is freedom. Yeah.
That's real. I always think of that, uh, Bob Marley song.
I think there's a line that said like, uh,
escape mental slavery or something. I'm like, Oh,
that's what he was talking about. Like the, this mental slavery that we have
(07:27):
when we try to fit in.
Yeah. Yeah.
And it's, it's hard to break out of that. Like even like,
I remember in high school, we all wanted to be individuals,
but we would, we would get with a group and those would be the individuals
we would become. So we really just kind of.
(07:49):
You know, we kind of put ourselves into a group.
We had to put ourselves into a group.
You know, like when I was in school in the nineties,
we had like the greasers. Those were the, uh,
the guys who just like loved cars.
Um, you know, then you had like the hip hop guys, you know, um,
we had like so many different.
(08:16):
I had friends like everyone, but I always felt like an outsider.
You know, and even nowadays, like, I see so many videos like where people are against labels.
Don't label me this way.
Don't label me that way.
But then when they introduce themselves, there's a whole string of labels that they put on themselves.
(08:39):
It's one of the things like I've been thinking about like with mental health.
And I might have talked about this before, but I realized one day that that with all the stuff that I'm learning from social media.
I'm beginning to take this universe that's in my mind.
(09:00):
And bring it down and constrict it into a hospital waiting room that's all sterile and it's got like the bullshit posters that are like meaningless that you can buy from an office supply store or whatever, you know, and everything is just a label and like, oh, I'm in executive freeze right now.
And this like, I get the definition and I get the need for the definition, but I cannot live by that definition.
(09:30):
Yeah, because when I do, I'm like, oh, I'm an executive free. Oh, there's no I could do about that. You know, it's like, no, there's a lot I can do.
Yeah, it's actually sort of like kind of one of the elements you were talking about before we hit record where science says, we can't pinpoint actual matter or atoms or what's happening.
(09:53):
All we can describe is what they're doing. And that's the greatest so that we can know them. And that's kind of what you're saying is like, I have all this emotion or this thing happening.
I can't really describe it, but we're going to put executive freeze on it. And that's the best thing we can do to describe this thing that's happening.
But really this thing that happening could be moving a thousand different ways in a thousand different people.
(10:18):
But we just have this one label for it because it's the best we can do right now.
Right. And then and then we we constrict everybody that deals with this and one form or another into this, again, another box.
It's like society has these boxes for us. And then there's boxes and boxes was like those Russian nesting dollars. Yeah.
(10:41):
Like, all right, this is my label. I'm a white old dude in America. Okay, so that's that's one of the dolls in there and then underneath that I have PTSD and that's another down then underneath that.
There's depression. There's anxiety. There's executive freeze. There's neurodivergent, you know, and it's all this stuff. And then I feel like my brain becomes more full of stainless steel.
(11:07):
You know what I mean, like, all the surfaces are easily cleaned. You know, you probably have to have a crew come in there, you know, and spray it down with all that COVID stuff that they were doing.
Wow. And I'm like, no, my mind is a universe. And I don't want to lose that. You know, it's cool to understand what what what this is, but I can't live by that definition.
(11:35):
Yeah.
I have to live by the universe that's there.
I've been thinking a lot about that lately and it seems like we you and I have been circling this with the podcast is, you know, what is identity what are these labels. And there's a certain part of my humanness that likes to story things and label things and it makes me feel safe and good in my body to do so.
(11:59):
And here's a question I've been pondering. Is that a function of my humanity? Or is that a function of the society that I've lived in?
And I'm not sure what the answer is yet.
You know what pops in my mind immediately is in the book, the body keeps a score.
(12:21):
Bessel van der Kolk talks about one of the issues with trauma is when we go into that fight or flight state, certain parts of our brain begin to shut down because we don't need communication when we're running from a freaking bear in the woods, you know, because we're not going to stop
and be like, Hey, dude, can we talk about this? You know what I mean?
Like, I can't, I can't stop and be like, hold on, I got to use the bathroom real quick. So all that stuff stops.
(12:48):
You know, and in a healthy brain, we have a narrative that goes through our lives.
And that's what our brain wants. And one of the things that messes our brain up with trauma is that that narrative is dissected into pieces.
And I'm sure you can think back to your car accident to the parts of like, for me with the military, I don't know the timelines of things. I don't know when things happened. If it was multiple patrols, one patrol.
(13:20):
Totally.
I have no memory of that.
Yeah. Isn't that bizarre. My sister and I talk about that even the two of us together trying to timeline our childhood cannot do it.
Because both of us have like a traumatic childhood. And so we're like, wait, did that happen with this person or at this house or like, you know, the feeling and the memory, but the facts and the timeline of it are distorted from that whatever your whatever that trauma function is.
(13:50):
Yeah.
Yeah. And then our, since our brains are designed to not like chaos, like it wants it wants patterns, it wants to see things.
It keeps us focused on all of those divisions and that memory.
And, and it causes suffering for us.
(14:12):
Yeah.
So it's, but and the cool thing too is there's, there's, there was one sort of a therapeutic thing they did with acting.
And all they did was they created a narrative that in the moment.
Like they would have the, the person pick out people in this group, like, who do you want to play your mom and they would pick somebody who do you want to play your dad.
(14:40):
Okay. Who do you want to play?
Like your mom as she was like this person, you know, so they would describe their parents, their childhood, and that person would act like their mom and then what would you want your mom actually to say.
And then the other person would come in and fulfill that role.
And they said, yeah, the healing that went on because you created a new narrative.
(15:04):
Yeah.
You know, that that is so helpful.
Yeah, that sounds really cool.
Yeah, one thing I learned about recently was, I think it's called an ori key. And what it is is like that lineage that used to come after your name like you know when you used to go to a party and they'd be like, the judges, blah, blah, blah, like announce you.
(15:27):
So everybody knows the Game of Thrones one is like Daenerys House of Tigere and you're like mother of dragons. Right. And you have like five or six things that you say that like define who you are.
And so there's this woman who all of her work is about like helping people define their ori keys and I was like, oh that's so cool. And what's interesting to me is, I am attracted to defining myself, right, like making my own.
(15:57):
And I'm also attracted to just the I am with no definition.
Yes.
And so that's when I'm like, okay, is this just like my human part and my soul part having different needs and like loves, right, my human parts like, oh yeah, let's let's make a story about who we are.
Right. And then my like soul part my universe brain is like, no, let's just bask and be silent in the greatness of all that is.
(16:27):
Yeah, and I'm starting to come to the belief that the more we dive deeper into consciousness, the more these paradox paradox I begin to show up.
And that's one of them. You know, like where my biological being needs an identity but my consciousness is like I am. Yeah.
(16:50):
And you know, and that's just what it is, you know. So it's cool without an identity because you know when you know who you are you don't have to go around convincing people of who you are.
You just are you.
Yeah.
And that goes back sort of to what we were talking about about john's brilliance in the last episode is the closer and closer you get to authenticity I think those things start to align and you start to be both of those things in more moments both of those paradoxes are
(17:24):
happening in moments.
That's what I hope for.
Yeah, that was one thing that like I became envious of john about like I want his level of authenticity. You know, and from what I've heard like with vibrations like the highest vibration that we can reach which I thought was like the vibration of love or
(17:45):
something you know but is the vibration of authenticity.
It makes me question, like every second of every interaction I have like am I really being authentic, or, you know, like I was, I was talking with a buddy of mine.
And we're, he was going through some stuff so he was just like kind of venting and stuff and I was like, am I putting on like a mask and my putting on like, you know, the coach mask because I was like,
(18:12):
Oh, yeah, you know, and I'm like, why am I doing this shit? Yeah, relax just be yourself. You know, so it's it's hard. I think it's it's really hard to do but that consciousness aspect is like that.
It's still quiet breeze it just kind of blows through that gives us this intuitive feeling. It doesn't argue with us. It doesn't demand anything of us. But then our ego is like, no, no, and within seconds we'll have 500 different reasons why if we don't do something
(18:47):
or if we do do something it is going to destroy our world. You know, and and so then we put on those masks we put on those characters to fit into that box so that we could be safe.
Yes. And I think that exactly as those inconvenient truths where I have this tiny whisper that says, you need to meditate every single day to achieve your next like this is part.
(19:14):
And then the other part of me wants to shut it down right because it's inconvenient for me to do that. Not only in my daily life right in my busy important schedule, but also because I'm scared of what it will lead to.
Right and so having the ability to face those truths head on and make the changes necessary in your life.
(19:40):
I think building that skill is like the most valuable skill that you can build. Yeah.
And it's hard. It's really hard.
I mean, there's there's a commercial I think for for Hilton, like the hotels and stuff. And it's these two people that come in and they're like dressed like they're they're movie stars you know and they're demanding like cars and they're demanding special treatment for the dog and the
(20:10):
whole purpose of the thing is like, we treat everybody like a VIP, you know so at one point this lady takes off her sunglasses she goes. So you treat even just ordinary people like VIPs.
And for some reason, and I get mad at myself to like, why does this bother me, you know, because it's it's stupid but it bothers me because I'm like, there's not one ordinary person on this earth.
(20:36):
Yeah. But again our society has put us in that in this box of there are VIPs and those are the stars and and the politicians and the rich people and all that stuff. And then there's us.
You know, the rest of the world that just kind of is so easily forgotten about you know the workers the cops that's that's it. Yeah.
(20:58):
You know but we are all
the same. This were the same thing. Yeah.
Yes.
I know it's funny because that's kind of like I have a real like a version to elitism. Yeah.
But then, like I'm playing that game to at my own level.
(21:22):
And it's like, whoa, I was thinking after this last episode. I wonder what it would be like to just sit down and make a list of all the judgments that I have every judgment that I can recognize.
And then go out and challenge those judgments and ask people questions.
(21:43):
I thought that would be scary.
And I said that I'm like dude, my like vulnerability would have a seizure. Like, right.
Because I would not want to admit what I actually judge.
Yes.
Yeah. Isn't that interesting I had the same reaction I had the idea and then I was like wow that would be powerful and then I the next thought was like I'm never going to do that.
(22:15):
I think it's just like then I asked myself well how serious are you about your growth.
I was like well I guess that's serious. Right. To that line, not doing this thing that, but that's exactly what we're talking about right like some intuitive hit that's like, this could be an exploration for your soul.
And then my ego is like no.
That's an inconvenient truth, right.
(22:39):
You don't have to share it with anybody. Right. We all internal work.
Yep. You know, where you just keep track of your own thing and stuff like that but still the fear of sitting there and looking, because then it goes through like upseat your week, your week, you're not as good as you think you are like, and the ego just starts just dumping all over
(23:08):
you.
And I was like, I don't know about that and like, but why what what is the danger of that except that level of growth which then makes me think.
Is it really a fear of that growth.
Right. Yes.
Yes.
And it's like, this is my comfort zone.
(23:30):
I'm not in a depression.
There was this book that I loved so much. It was back when I was like a hardcore Christian, and it's called when the pieces don't fit God makes a difference and it's like little tiny book, but it's about this woman who actually listen to everything that God told her to do.
And God would be like, go here and do this. And she would do it right so we were talking about that in a different language we're calling it intuition. But it was her insanely magical amazing story about living from that space.
(24:05):
And just all the magic that happened and that's kind of what the celestine prophecy is about to write notice those feelings those coincidences lean into it go towards that stuff. And that's how your life is meant to unfold like humans were meant to unfold themselves
like that.
But we put ourselves in boxes.
So we don't do that anymore and therefore we don't grow.
(24:28):
Yeah.
And then like the weird thing too is then when we when we do that when we put ourselves in that box we like walk up to those walls that are like immovable and we're like see I'm strong.
Nobody can get in. I can't get out.
You know and then when somebody is just vulnerable and open.
You're like, oh dude, whatever man you're talking about feelings you're talking about this you're you're what you're such a bitch you know all this stuff.
(24:55):
And it's like that strength dude.
You know, you can have like the like some MMA fighter you know jacked out like somebody that can just destroy you with their pinky or whatever. You know and they can be so much weaker than some.
Yeah, just random dude that that accepts that level of vulnerability authenticity and does that work to open up because nothing.
(25:23):
Everything can touch him but nothing can hurt him. Yeah.
But and that was the beautiful thing with john like, yeah, I don't think there's anything that that I could have said to him derogatory that would be like, you just hurt my feelings.
You know what I mean like, because he's so full of self.
Yeah, authenticity that it, it can't even fit there. It doesn't.
(25:49):
It's like, you know, puzzle piece for it to stick to right where you say something and he has a belief of it so it sticks to it. He's just, yeah, beautifully free.
Yes, that's a guy like that beautifully free. Yeah, it's hard to do in practice though because like I have a situation. So Keith knows but I'm really trying to manifest or call all my family to live close to me.
(26:12):
And ideally I'd love to live all along the same like 10 acres with five houses right like that's my dream. But recently there has been some like things and communication styles and I'm uncomfortable and I feel sort of cagey.
And I don't know how to address it because I'm so scared of hurting someone's feelings or, or showing up like my fear of always being the bulldozer and pushing people to be a certain way or like.
(26:38):
Here's a situation where I have a desire, I think it's a pure desire of like bringing family together and having close.
And yet I don't know how to navigate it, like even with all my tools, even with, you know, my training as a coach, even with, I still am struggling and I think that's where it's sort of like where the rubber hits the road, where it gets sticky.
(27:04):
You know, that's one thing to show up true and follow all this within your own path, but then there's other people on your path to.
And you've got to account for them and their needs and communication style like all of them.
And I've been asking myself, okay, if I believe that we're all the same thing, does that help me find a path forward in this situation?
(27:35):
I don't know. I don't have the answer.
Because it like it's it's weird because yeah we all are the same thing but again another paradox but we're also all very different.
You can you can have two people that have the same experience and they're going to give different meanings to it and it's going to haunt them in different ways.
(28:04):
It's like they say no two people have the same childhood, even if your brother and sister because you're completely different you can't have the same childhood.
Yeah, that same kind of thing. Yeah.
Yeah, I remember reading and I forget what book this was in but it was a story about two fathers who lost daughters to murder.
(28:25):
And one of the fathers, what he did was he told everybody about how amazing his daughter was how, you know, everything that she taught him.
And he kept his love for her alive and he kept the memory of her alive and that was the way he honored the other guy.
(28:47):
Once a year he would go to the last diner that she ate at and that this was a diner that she laughed and then was was taken.
And he goes there to remember and it just makes him very angry.
And it's almost like he's stuck in that moment.
(29:08):
Yeah.
So you have two people with very similar horrific experiences, but dealing with it in two separate ways.
One is still horrific, but he's he's living life and you have the other one that is horrific and his life stopped in that moment.
(29:32):
You know, so it's it's so hard to do and I think that acceptance of who people are.
So remembering that yes, we are all the same, but we are also different.
So we, we, you know, we hold on to that sameness, but we accept the differences.
And that is so hard to do.
(29:54):
Yes.
So hard to do, man.
I love the way you said he was keeping his daughter alive by all these positive memories.
Because then when you told the second story, it was like he was keeping the murderer alive through his stories.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's good.
(30:15):
I mean, that's what I heard when you were telling it.
I was like, wow, that's powerful.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's very challenging to navigate all of all of our differences and stay true to ourselves.
It's a high calling.
Yeah.
It's, it's so much harder than I ever thought.
(30:42):
And if it wasn't for my faith that there is something magical on the other side of this fight, I would have, I would have like started being like a midnight stalker at a grocery store like years ago and just been like, you know, we're calling it quits.
I would have grown out like one of those university like the dudes that are bald on top, but they have like long hair like that would be me, my little comb over, you know, and just putting cans of corn on a shelf for the rest of my life.
(31:13):
They're like, you know, but I truly believe that there is something that is beyond magical that is out there that we can reach.
And I feel like certain times in my life, I've touched it.
Right.
And so then you're like, oh, there it is.
How, what do I need to align to touch it more frequently?
(31:37):
Yeah, yeah, like I'll get it.
I'll like slide in and be like, whoa, I got this.
You know, and then like 30 seconds later it's gone and I'm like, what the hell did I do to get into that spot? You know, and I can't remember, or I'll try it again.
It's like not working.
And I don't know, maybe that's the thing because it's just again, it's a wave, you know, so you're in, you're out, you're in, you're out.
(31:58):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think that for people listening, it would be good to talk about, even though it's hard, like the benefits of the journey to, like, why would you take this journey?
Like what if you're sitting there and you're, you know, scared and your relationships aren't fulfilling and your job's not fulfilling and you're just like, fuck it, I'll go through the motions till I die in this stupid capitalist society and your negative and cynicism is arising.
(32:33):
Like a lot of people are in that space right now and I fucking get it.
Right.
Like, I get it.
And also, that's, that's not going to help you.
It's not, that's not how ultimately we change our world, number one.
And two, that's suffering.
(32:54):
And so I think like as hard as, I like when people say like, choose your hard.
Right.
That journey is hard when you're just a slave to society, you're stuck in the cog in the system. You're not going out of your comfort zone.
So why is choosing this hard, challenging your beliefs, right?
(33:18):
Challenging your ego.
Why is it the better hard?
I know for me.
So for about 20 years, I lived stiffening control.
I was just thinking about, I'm thinking about that wave a lot and if you think about just like waves in the ocean, even ones that are destructive, they're fluid, you know, they're moving.
(33:45):
And do you ever see there, there was this movie like the after tomorrow where like everything froze like almost like immediately, like it was like global global warming disaster type type movie.
And there would be like waves that are moving and all of a sudden it just freezes.
I felt like that was my life, you know, like, I was just that solid and stiff and unmoving. So when things were happening that I didn't like, I had to figure out a way to control it.
(34:18):
And for me, the way to do it was anger.
You know, because when I'm read in the face screaming to Sandy and to my girls, I'm the most important person there.
Because they don't know what is going on. So I have complete control, even though I'm absolutely wrong.
(34:39):
Yeah.
You know, but that control is like stiff.
Yes.
You know, it's almost like beating someone with a baseball bat, and then you see somebody that like, you know, does a keto or Tai Chi or something like that that's fluid and moving and, you know, and and you see them, you know, work on somebody and it's like they they're not even breaking a
(35:06):
sweat, but they're flipping people around 800 times. That's that fluid motion where you're working with what you have, instead of being that brick wall to slam into.
Yeah.
You know, and I and, and so it comes down to that again like that acceptance.
Yeah, to accept what has happened to us.
(35:30):
We have to accept how other people are.
And we have to accept how we feel from moment to moment.
Yeah.
Yeah, you know, it's so funny what I heard you say or what I took away is like, so my response is not anger.
(35:51):
My my responses, fawning, right.
And then I thought, oh, that's interesting. We're both describing like reptile brain responses right by flight, freeze or fawn. But when I get, when I'm trying to live as I should and be a good girl.
I'm just people pleasing.
(36:17):
Good girl.
Yeah, that timing was perfect.
And so really what I hear you saying is to live with the hearts of, you know, living from soul and authenticity is really about living in your cortex, your thinking brain, your accepting brain, it's evolution happening.
(36:42):
Versus your reptile brain, which can only do a couple functions.
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, and it was it was beautiful when we were a prey species.
Right.
But like in one of the books that I read, open focus brain, it talked about how, you know, we went from moments of fight or flight to this chronic fight or flight response where, because things have gotten.
(37:12):
And when I say easy, I know people are suffering.
You know, there's there's wars going all over the world, you know, and life is not easy for those people. So when I say easy, I'm talking about like our situation, you know, where we're sitting in our houses, talking to being able to do this.
You know, but there's not the problems that we used to have, you know, for the most of us, like, even if I couldn't get to the store for another couple of days, like, I have tons of food in the house to eat where I can last for weeks, you know.
(37:47):
So there's these chronic psychological threats that come up.
You know, even like Friday nights, my pool night, and I don't like big crowds of people. So there's a couple of tables that they can put us where there's a wall behind me.
(38:08):
And I can see the whole of the pool hall.
I can feel good there. Then in the middle tables, you're just surrounded by everybody. So I'm already having anxiety, thinking about what's going to happen. Now, Zoe, like that, I guess.
(38:30):
So, no matter where I sit, though, nothing has ever happened. So I'm safe.
And I'm creating this, like this imaginary future oriented psychological threat that's causing me anxiety in my present moment.
And your thought is actually being the release of all those chemicals that are putting your body into that state, dysregulating your nervous system. So then it's a snowball, right? Because those chemicals are flooding your body and then your mind goes, oh, I really need to pay attention to what these chemicals are telling me there must be even a bigger problem.
(39:11):
Right.
Yeah, try to figure it out.
And then down the road you go to an anxiety attack.
Yeah. Yeah. And then my body, my brain is communicating with my body. My body is going back to my brain, you know, because like I even now, like I feel a little tension in my shoulders.
It's kind of coming up and I get ahead. I'm like, why do I have a headache? Oh, because I'm tense. Why am I tense? Oh, because of this, you know, because I'm thinking about this and my brain's like, oh, yeah, that's going to suck.
(39:35):
So here's some more cortisol. Here's some more anxiety, you know, so then I'm tense even more tense. So yeah, it's this loop that we get stuck in.
And for like the 10 years that I've been researching all of this, I've found that the only answer is, it's like a trust fall.
(39:59):
You know, but it's, it's like, what I got the universe consciousness. There's something that we don't know that we can't see, but we know is there that is going to catch me.
Yes.
And that's, that's terrifying.
Yeah. Yeah. And I think that is
(40:25):
living in that leap. Right.
That's where I think the most magic is. And obviously the most terror.
Yes.
But you know, it's interesting is what I've been questioning. So, you know how we describe that cycle.
Is there the positive flip side of that in my human body and psyche.
(40:53):
And then he will talk about when they say the word manifesting, like where I imagine something and it's so real in my present moment that I'm flooded with all the chemicals as if it had happened. So I think more good thoughts and then that happens and then, and why I mean, hardly
anybody's in that positive cycle. Most of us are all in this negative cycle, but it's got to be true both ways right it has to be just as powerful for the positive but when I think about the positive I'm like, Oh yeah, like that's like
(41:21):
magic.
For some reason there's like a negative connotation. If we think we can do that positively or you're a hippie or a weirdo, even though we all accept the negative one.
Yeah. Yeah. In fact, one of my one of my classes for coaching they did like this little experiment like he asked somebody like without without saying words.
(41:46):
You know, tell me depression. Just just in your body, you know, and the girl that was doing it was like so she like slumped over and her voice dropped and she was just looking down now making eye contact.
You know, and if you do that long enough you're going to start feeling it.
Yes, you know, like I get I give a talk at a university here and and we did that. And I was like, so, so just raise your hand when you start feeling depressed.
(42:15):
And within like I would say like 10 seconds like the first hand went up so I'm like, All right, cool. You know, which everyone's like oh that freaking great job just make everybody in the class horribly depressed.
You know, but when you start thinking like I was in, I was having a panic attack.
Last night I was watching band of brothers. And this came up where one when they were liberating one of the concentration camps and one of the inmates that was in the camp came up and hugged this GI.
(42:51):
And I had a similar experience in Bosnia where this old woman who had lost her family came up and hugged me and just started like weeping into my chest and I wasn't prepared for it and it just set some memories in motion.
So I was doing dishes after we ate and I was just looking out at this tree and I'm like dude that tree's got to be like 100 feet man.
(43:19):
And that's what I mean, right and then I felt like I felt better in my head but then I felt like I was standing up straighter.
I started humming, like, just a song, you know, so things started to happen with, I mean just naturally. Yes.
(43:40):
But the panic was still there.
So I had to accept that. That's a paradox yet, right. Yeah, like, okay, this is what I feel. This is why I believe this is the meaning I'm giving to I feel it because I saw this.
But I'm going to now actively put my, my, my focus on to something else.
(44:03):
And I have to hold it there. Understanding that the panic is still there, you know, because when I hold it there, expecting for the panic to go away. I'm still, that's when I Scooby do it, you know, like, like who's really behind this and I'm like okay I'm focused on trees and how they're amazing but you pull the mask off and it's like my panic is still there.
(44:25):
I'm focused on the panic. You know, I'm rid of it. Yeah, I'm staring at this tree so the panic goes away but when I, when I accept acknowledge and then kind of forget about it and then just be like, that tree must have been there for like a century at least like what did this land look like 100 years ago is all farmland and
everything and, you know, that's when things started to change.
(44:50):
Yeah.
You know, so it's
the thing that really speaks to, you know, authenticity and the highest vibration and how we're talking about that is eat when you learn how to hack yourself.
Right hack your body hack your mind hack your.
That's where you can become more and more authentic, because you're not just letting, you know, these past experiences or this chemical or this thought run this show.
(45:20):
You're like, no, I'm going to run this show. I know how to hack my own system, bring it back online.
And so I think it's a much more positive experience of life, even though it's challenging.
Yeah. Yeah, and it's just it's just understanding that if we can observe some with we can observe something then we're inherently not that thing.
(45:45):
So, if I'm observing my thoughts I'm not my thoughts so who am I.
You know, and then that's where that I am comes in I'm consciousness.
So, in those moments I try to step up into that higher level.
And, and just live in consciousness.
(46:06):
And I don't know how to do it. It's everything is like trial and error in the moment. You know, but that's the search that I'm on.
You know, when I when I see people and again here's there's something to sound like crazy and stuff but when I see people like, yeah I was meditating and then this interdimensional being came to I'm like, is that true like I want that to happen I want to know if it's true.
(46:31):
You know, death is just going into a new dimensional plane I'm like, I want that I want to know if it's true before I die you know what I mean like, I want all these answers and that's where I want to get.
And I couldn't do that until I accepted my original story.
Yes.
(46:52):
You know, and I think that is one of the hardest things for people to do.
Yeah, except your original story with the responsibility.
Right because like there's a big difference in my mom did these things to me, she owes me this she owes me that she didn't do this, which all might be true. She might owe me those things right, but believing that story keeps me down.
(47:24):
Yes. And so being, I don't know if the words mature enough or evolved enough to say that thing happened and I did deserve all those things.
But you know what I'm going to let this other person off the hook, because keeping them on the hook is keeping me down.
Yeah, forgive move on except back to the acceptance right and rise above this story that I have.
(47:52):
But that's much easier said than done in our lives right. Oh my God dude.
I've been like 20 years to finally like accept because everything was about blame blame say me blame the church. I blamed like everybody and everything, you know, except me even to the point like somebody's driving too slow.
(48:22):
And I'm like, I'm not going to blame. Yes, like this happened to me. You know, I was mugged or whatever. It doesn't mean it was your fault.
But it means that now this has happened. And because now it's happened. It's almost like things are set in stone but they're set in stone and the in the moment that it happens.
(48:45):
Because there's so many variables that can have that can that can come along the way that that can put you on a different track or whatever but whatever so that this is what happened at that point set in stone and it is what it is.
But now I have a responsibility of saying this happened to me. And this wasn't my fault. And this was horrific. And in this thing I was a victim. But I'm not going to live in the victim mentality. Now I have the responsibility to deal with this in the best way that I possibly can.
(49:17):
Yeah. Yeah, I used to love Dan Milman who wrote way the peaceful warrior. And why I actually went and saw him and did a workshop with him and he did Tai Chi and it was just like the best day.
But he told this story. He said so you know there's a group of guys and every day when this guy opens his lunch pail he's like a peanut butter and jelly man and complains about his lunch the next day a peanut butter.
(49:44):
And so finally one of his friends goes dude just pack yourself something else like why are you complaining about this, or ask your wife to pack you something else. And he goes my wife doesn't pack my lunch I do.
Right. And so the same kind of analogy like I start my day. Here's my story about how my mom did me wrong and here's my story about how much my job sucks and my boss doesn't appreciate me and here's my okay I'm going to go off with this lunch pail and live my day.
(50:11):
Well you know what your day is going to look like we can all guess because the ingredients are there. But yet we do that over and over and over and over again every single day of our life.
And because we believe we have to like that's a form of slavery right like it at mental slavery.
Yeah, yeah. I mean I did that for so freaking long waking up just hating the fact that I was conscious again, you know, and, and there's still some days like today I woke up. Boom, anxiety attack right because I Friday it's pool.
(50:51):
That was my first thought, you know, and I was like, son of a bitch, you know, like that happens and stuff but it's, it's a prison.
Yes. And we and the thing is is like we are our own wardens to, you know, we have the keys and we keep ourselves locked up and again that's not to blame because it's, we do it for safety.
(51:18):
So it's a good thing. It's a good reason for doing it. However, it just causes more suffering in the long run, and there's more freedom and stepping out of the prison of safety and and and beginning to live life again.
(51:39):
Yeah. And I think that goes back to knowing your hacks like I had a day like that two days ago, you know my family's in town. I'm seeing way more people than usual.
And I'm an introvert, we're running around looking at houses so I'm out in the, you know, it's just been kind of chaotic.
I'm like, I'm just full of anxiety, right, upset stomach, all the stuff. And I'm like, okay, I, I would have at one time, just canceled everything and stayed in bed or stayed home.
(52:13):
But now, what are my hacks. Okay, I'm going to do a 10 minute meditation. I'm going to visualize my day. I'm going to look my eyes in the mirror and talk to myself for a couple minutes.
I'm going to listen to calming music on my way up, you know, my drive up to the house. And then one thing that really helps me that surprised me is, I have a tendency when feeling anxious to, like you said not look people in the eye not have deep conversations.
(52:40):
But when I force myself to be like, Hi, how you do like and connect the anxiety. It has to take a backseat when I'm in that moment of connection with another person.
And because I have all these hacks. I think it was like by lunchtime, I go, Oh, I don't feel anxious anymore.
(53:01):
Yeah. And I was thinking that it was going to be one of those nights where I went to bed early and did all my anxiety. And then I just surprised myself and I'm like, Oh, my hacks are getting good.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And like the more you practice it, the easier it becomes, you know, because you're creating new neural pathways because that's the stuff that keeps us stuck. There's those the pathways like when we keep thinking those habitual thoughts, I'll peanut butter and jelly again.
(53:26):
You know, even though you're the one making your lunch, you know, it and it we can become addicted to those those chemicals that are released so that when we don't feel all that adrenaline and all that cortisol in our system, you know, our body is like what the hell's going on.
You know what I mean. So we're not used to the other side of like the better chemicals.
(53:48):
You know, and then that's what that also is what makes it so easy to run the dopamine.
Mm hmm. You know, because I can go smoke some weed and get a hit of dopamine. I can go drink and get a I can go like knee deep in a bag of Doritos and and you know dopamine is running crazy.
You know, but it's, it's bleeding.
Yeah.
(54:09):
Yeah, I think the other reason why we hold on to those negative stories, at least for me is because I want to be heard.
I want this person to know what happened or know what they did. So I'm going to stick to the I can't let go of the story or I'm never going to feel heard and acknowledged.
(54:32):
It's just, it just doesn't work that way. Right. So for me, I remember when I was like a teenager thinking, I'm going to write everything that happened to me and my childhood in books and every the whole world's going to know right then I'll feel really heard.
And then I realized like, I'm like that poisoning yourself thing right like this isn't the way that I stopped feeling this need to be acknowledged is to do the inner work acknowledge myself take responsibility of it, let it go.
(55:05):
And now when I look at those situations like particular with my mom, I don't need her to do anything for me.
Right.
She doesn't ever need to acknowledge my story for my story to be true, because I gave myself permission to be the expert on my story and be the only person that can define my truth.
Yes. Yes.
(55:28):
And when you get to that place, and you let other people off the hook.
All of a sudden there's a huge like
I feel so good.
Yeah, I've gotten I've gotten to the point where people come up to me and tell me I'm stupid.
(55:49):
Tell me I'm an idiot. I'm wrong. What, whatever.
You know, it was one social media helped me out with that because there was plenty of there's always plenty of you know that.
I'm good. I can take that and I can respond in a good way. And it was funny because the thing that brought this up was a video that I made a long time ago.
(56:12):
And it was in response to one of the guests that we had Angela talking about grief and how and Angela said that there is no destination for grief in this and I put I did a video on that somebody responded.
And I said, you know, I'm not sure if it's true. You know, it's acceptance acceptance is the destination. You know, and I got to I got a comment on that video this morning about how this really resonated with this person and, you know, because 10 years
(56:42):
later they're still dealing with the grief it's not as bad but there's those moments where it comes up.
I'm not good enough with it yet where I can stop doing it to myself.
Yeah.
You know, so I can have anybody come up to me and be like, you're a freaking idiot man you wasted your life you're a bum blah blah and I'm like, All right dude, like have an awesome day man, you know, but then I go inside, you know and I and I'm like, All right I'm going to start working like
(57:15):
you're stupid, you know, you're not smart enough, you don't have enough credentials. Who do you think you are, you know, and, and that.
Nope that that kicks my ass.
Yeah, you know what would be another fun kind of homework assignment is to like have a piece of paper and draw a line down the middle and be like, things that can still hurt me that other people can say that I say,
(57:43):
here's all the all the areas I haven't accepted or healed right I'm not finished this is work to be done, because I can think of some things that people can still say that would hurt my feelings.
Yeah.
And so obviously that's an area where I need more self acceptance.
(58:04):
Yeah, that one's fun. And the inner thoughts right what's one of my inner thoughts still trip me up.
So take me for a loop.
So many clothes man, they're driving me crazy.
Yeah. And I think with those did the job. I think that's where love can be really powerful.
(58:30):
Yeah. So you take this thought of like, you're a stupid piece of shit no one's going to believe you and you're like, oh, come here thought like, oh, yeah, just think that like, oh, you're okay.
Yeah, just soften up all that right because that thoughts painful. So we could just soften it up with a little love. Okay.
(58:52):
Yeah. Yeah.
Any engagement or fight with that thought is just going to grow that thought right.
Right. Yeah. Yeah, it's so cool because I heard this story about an old old guy he was like a master of some type of martial art.
And he used to do a thing like, you know, because as you grow older things to start hurting for no no apparent reason.
(59:18):
Like his elbow hurt and he was he just like grab his always like poor elbow. You know, this is a dude that can like, just tear you apart like when he wanted to and he talks so softly to himself.
You know, without judgment without like, oh, this shouldn't be happening. I should still be strong and not like, well, it just is what it is.
Yeah. I would say that that my self talk is the single most powerful thing that I've changed in my life that has contributed to like, more joy success piece, you know, whatever we all want is being nicer to myself.
(59:59):
It's weird, right? Like, the things that I say to myself, if somebody else said it, I would try to knock them out.
Yeah.
But I say it to myself and I'm like, yeah, it's true.
And how much I was like sabotaging myself before someone else or something else could sabotage me right so I'm like, oh, I want to call this person I met at a party. Oh no they they probably thought you were stupid and they would never want to be your friend so I don't make the call.
(01:00:34):
Right. Oh, I'd love to work with that job that company. I should, you know, give them a proposal. No, they're going to think you're dumb so I don't ever send the proposal.
I would say that I'm going to be a series of like, self self sabotaging based on these thoughts that aren't real at all.
Yeah.
Yep.
(01:00:55):
Yeah. And so before we start I was telling you about that video I saw.
She was a psychologist talking about how she she put up a video about accepting those things that happen to us.
And self self talk is is major when it comes to that.
And she said that she had so much pushback about how no, like we cannot accept what happened we can change it you know like all this stuff which it's like no you can't unfortunately we can't go into the past and change something.
(01:01:33):
My whole thing has been learn how to take PTSD and make it integrated into the foundation of who I am so it becomes a strength that I can stand on instead of a thing that controls me and imprisons me.
And we get into those things because of our self talk.
(01:01:59):
You know, like when we allow that self talk to run free range like like our chickens, you know, it's going to go negative naturally.
And it's going to keep us locked up it's it's going to and then with all of the messaging that comes in, you know, from from commercials and social media and society as a whole like making us feel less than if I don't use this brand of toothpaste, you know,
(01:02:28):
I don't own, you know, this thing, you know, it doubles down on all that so if we can learn to talk better to ourselves.
You know that can change that that'll eventually change our belief system.
And I love the way that you said that you're taking your PTSD and integrating it into who you are in a way that it can actually help you right it's moving you forward.
(01:03:02):
And I think that's such a powerful message because I think a lot of us are like, well as soon as my anxiety gets under control then I'll be able to be this do this thing.
I'm not depressed anymore I'll do this, or as soon as I get on the right, right there's all these stipulations for why we can't be doing the work we really called to do, because we're not perfect enough to do it yet.
(01:03:24):
And I heard somebody say something once and it has stuck with me this was like, I was probably in seventh grade at like a Christian conference, and, and the person said, Do you have to get cleaned up to take a bath.
And I was like, that's such an interesting thought right like doing the work of self acceptance and positive self talk and, and being out there courageously spreading my message that is my bath.
(01:03:52):
Right, that's how I'm shedding and becoming more pure. So why do I need to get cleaned up before I do that.
That is the process.
Yeah, if you don't have to get rid of it you can be the most powerful amazing person with your PTSD it doesn't have to go away.
Yes.
(01:04:14):
And I don't, I don't think I want it to go away. Yes, yes.
You know, and I, and that that's one place that I have made progress with myself talk, because so being being the first troops into Bosnia like Bosnia was not a deployment like Iraq and Afghanistan.
(01:04:37):
So I was always like, Why were you so weak, where that affected you like that. And I know at least one other person will couple other people that were affected, one from my unit and then another guy that I met.
So I'm sure there's there's others. But I used to just shit on myself, like I'm a coward, I'm weak. And I finally got into the place of you know what dude, you were 19 years old, you were a kid, you grew up.
(01:05:10):
I would say like sheltered because I was in that strict like I couldn't have friends outside of church I did but I couldn't it wasn't really supposed to date girls outside of church. We were in church Sunday morning Sunday night, Wednesday night, either Friday or Saturday youth group
Thursday was we would go out and send out tracks, you know, Saturday was like street preaching so everything revolved around the church. And I finally got to the point of like dude you were 19.
(01:05:40):
Your experience is growing up meant that this is the way it affected you.
It's okay you did your freaking best dude.
I can look back and be like yeah I made some bad decisions, but I made those bad decisions came from being in this chaotic mindset where I didn't know what the hell was wrong with me.
(01:06:02):
You know, I did my fucking best.
Why am I going to be mad why am I going to judge myself and put myself down about that.
Yeah.
You know, because all that's only those going to do is keep me more locked up.
Instead of just learning to forgive myself.
Yeah.
(01:06:23):
All right so let's before we close. Take a couple seconds, if you're willing, and think about an inner self talk that you're still struggling with, and we'll both share it in the spirit of vulnerability.
(01:06:45):
My mind comes like, almost like trying to like, like slam just out of my skull like, you know, right out is I'm worthless.
That that that one word, I can hate that word, because it goes through my head a million times a day.
(01:07:06):
Does your brain come up with like data and stuff to like, because of this because of this this is why I can prove it to you. Yeah.
I'm not smart enough.
You know, like, and then even like when my brain is like, yeah, but dude, you're the first person in your family to get a college degree.
And I think like I ended, I was so mad I was so close to a 4.0 like 3.8 something. You know, so I graduated with like high honors.
(01:07:34):
And, and I had for my senior thesis I interviewed this lady from Yale who was like, dude, you can get into Yale so easy.
You know, but I never pursued it because, no, you're too stupid that's for other people.
Yeah.
And that's something that still has so much control over me.
(01:07:56):
Yeah.
Yeah, it's kind of like that thought. It needs to be like what you're doing with your PTSD and anxiety where you're like, okay, just you're in the sidecar, come along on worthiness.
You can come for the journey.
Right.
Because, yeah.
I would say for me right now, I'm really struggling with self beat up around.
(01:08:23):
My life is really good right now. Right. I love it. I have a great husband we have enough money. I'm not having to work like a slave like I have most of my life, you know, 50 60 hours a week.
And I feel so, I guess it is on worthiness to like guilty.
(01:08:46):
And I'm not sure how much I have, and how much like other people don't have, and all the suffering in the world and I think, all these other people are suffering.
I should suffer too, or like, who am I to not suffer. Right. Like there's a weird catch up in my brain. And then on the other hand, I want to continue to be more successful and have more money and right.
(01:09:10):
And I'm really realizing that this is like a sabotage, right it's a limiting belief.
But how can I be so proud and go online and be like my life's great. Everybody work with me. I know how everything, which is what I feel in my heart, without being a fucking asshole.
And I don't know that yet.
(01:09:33):
Right, I'm still struggling with that.
Good luck.
Yeah, because I was a good Indian like it.
But I said that's my life coach certification right there.
(01:09:55):
Right now, I'm just being present with it right.
This is happening, and I don't know how to think differently. All the thoughts I try to replace it with and belief systems I try to replace it with don't sound true to me.
But I'm just bringing awareness to it and awareness to it and trusting that the answer is going to come.
(01:10:17):
Yeah, and that's and that's, I that's the sweet spot because you're not judging it. You're not living in the truth of of it.
But acknowledging and accepting that it's there, you know, like in a lot of cases, I am worthless.
You know, if I signed up for the PGA tour.
(01:10:39):
I would, I would be pretty worthless.
You know what I mean, like if the New York Giants call me I'd be like dude we need you quarterback and Sunday, you know, whatever football starts up again.
Like, ain't gonna happen. I'm going to be worthless. So it's okay to be worthless.
Yes, I love that.
Yeah, in the context that it comes in, you know, but when it comes to my life.
(01:11:06):
I'm not and I think the thing is is like, I have that belief because I've let that thought run free in my mind.
You know, so what I'm trying to do is when I when I see it when I catch it.
I bring my mind bring my focus to reasons that I'm not worthless to Sandy, you know, to my kids to my family to friends, you know, to you to this podcast, you know, like, all that stuff.
(01:11:40):
I love how you called your thoughts like free range chickens because I can totally picture like a negative thought in my head all like, like, like, looking at all like the positive things like, oh, I'm going to destroy this I'm going to pluck it this and like whoa chicken's like come back right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We got we got to put you in one of those like Purdue barns with no light and stuff like that.
(01:12:03):
All right, well that was great. Thank you everybody for joining us. Good, good show.
Thank you for listening to the chasing thoughts podcast. Please support us by liking, subscribing or leaving a review or comment. We would really appreciate it. If you'd like to be a guest, we would love to explore life and what it means to be human with you.
(01:12:24):
Please email us at chasing thoughts podcast at gmail.com.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Ruthie's Table 4
For more than 30 years The River Cafe in London, has been the home-from-home of artists, architects, designers, actors, collectors, writers, activists, and politicians. Michael Caine, Glenn Close, JJ Abrams, Steve McQueen, Victoria and David Beckham, and Lily Allen, are just some of the people who love to call The River Cafe home. On River Cafe Table 4, Rogers sits down with her customers—who have become friends—to talk about food memories. Table 4 explores how food impacts every aspect of our lives. “Foods is politics, food is cultural, food is how you express love, food is about your heritage, it defines who you and who you want to be,” says Rogers. Each week, Rogers invites her guest to reminisce about family suppers and first dates, what they cook, how they eat when performing, the restaurants they choose, and what food they seek when they need comfort. And to punctuate each episode of Table 4, guests such as Ralph Fiennes, Emily Blunt, and Alfonso Cuarón, read their favourite recipe from one of the best-selling River Cafe cookbooks. Table 4 itself, is situated near The River Cafe’s open kitchen, close to the bright pink wood-fired oven and next to the glossy yellow pass, where Ruthie oversees the restaurant. You are invited to take a seat at this intimate table and join the conversation. For more information, recipes, and ingredients, go to https://shoptherivercafe.co.uk/ Web: https://rivercafe.co.uk/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/therivercafelondon/ Facebook: https://en-gb.facebook.com/therivercafelondon/ For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.