Chasing Thoughts | S02 E24 Thoughts on Conflict - Chasing Thoughts

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome to the Chasing Thoughts podcast.

(00:03):
Listen in as Mindy, Keith and their guests
take a deep dive into their own minds and souls
to investigate the beauty of imperfection,
challenge their beliefs,
and embrace the richness of living a truly authentic life.
Welcome to Chasing Thoughts.
Hi everybody, welcome to Chasing Thoughts.

(00:26):
Keith and I here today,
and today we're going to talk about conflict,
which is super juicy.
And I'm excited about this because I think that Keith and I
have very different experiences with this.
So Keith has struggled with anger,
and he knows anger real well.
And I'm the opposite.

(00:48):
I'm totally afraid of anger.
When I get into conflict, I have a tendency to roll over.
I'm afraid to like hold my ground in like a back and forth,
like powerful discussion.
And that has not served me well at all in my life.
Right?
And so there's like, there's this middle ground of conflict

(01:11):
that's healthy.
I'd like to discuss what that is.
And for me, this is coming up because you know,
recently I've been having this, you know,
weird thing that's been happening to my Instagram account where like,
I just keep getting more action, I guess.

(01:33):
You know?
And so that means like more people commenting,
more of this and that.
And because it's new, I'm like, oh,
I want to try to respond to all of this and like keep it going,
which is like not sustainable at all.
But it's been really interesting to me because there's been like
this side little growth journey happening with me.

(01:56):
So at first I would post something and then of course it's the internet
and attack, negativity is going to happen, right?
And I felt like, oh, I need to back away.
I'm going to be, I'm the wrong one here.
I should delete this post.
I don't want negativity on my feed.
I don't, like, it felt very,

(02:17):
like I was disappearing, right?
Or avoiding it, right?
So it was, I sat with it because I'm like, wait a second,
like this isn't how I want to operate.
I had a situation back when I was coaching like 2010,
2015, like in that, where I made this YouTube video and it actually

(02:40):
got like a million hits, right?
Like, wow.
But then there was so many negative comments on it that I just deleted it.
Wow.
And I look back and I go, that didn't serve me, right?
But I was so like shooken up and embarrassed about some of the comments
that people had made about me and, um, so as this sort of has gone on this

(03:08):
last week or two, well, pause the story for a minute.
My husband is the opposite.
He like loves it when people try to like scam bait him on the phone
because he'll try to like, like, there's some sort of enjoyment he gets
over being like confrontational.
And I never understood that.

(03:29):
I'm like, when someone tries to scam bait me, I feel bad for me.
I feel bad for them.
I just feel icky.
Right.
So I started playing around a little bit more with like,
not disappearing, not being mean, right?
But just not rolling over.
And it's been an interesting kind of safe way in my comments thread,

(03:54):
right?
For me to like play around with what's happening in here around
conflict and how I feel about conflict.
And, um, I don't know.
I don't have the answers, right?
I just, I don't know.
I don't have the answers, right?
I just thought that it would be interesting.
Um,

(04:17):
Just be interesting to explore a little bit more,
not just online, but in life. Like.
How far do you stand up for yourself and when do you back up and roll
over and what is standing up for yourself look like and what if the
other person keeps going at you, even when you're kind and like all
of those types of things.
I just think it'd be nice to have a little more clarity on it.

(04:38):
Yeah.
That that is, that is such a crazy story too.
Just about that this video, cause I mean,
especially in the social media world,
a video that gets a million views. Like, I mean, that's what everybody wants.
Like I have one that has like 17,000 and I'm like, I,
I am famous everybody. Like I'm stopping for all the graphs on the street,
you know, um, and, and then to take it down for the cause of the,

(05:04):
cause of the negative comments that is so, that's so wild.
And, and I know like celebrities deal with this as well.
You know, where sometimes the, the comments can trigger,
I think their own judgments and maybe their own insecurities.
And then they struggle with that.
Um, yeah.
Yeah.
That is a, it can be such an amazing place and such a nasty place.

(05:27):
Yeah. And I also see that, you know,
I've talked a little bit about when I was an executive director and I had to deal
a lot with like city hall and city managers and the mayor and all that.
And like the conflict associated with that role was one that I wasn't
able to navigate.
Right. I wasn't, I either pushed too hard and people hated me and then I got a

(05:49):
reputation as being a bitch, or I didn't push enough.
And then I was a push, right? Like getting it right.
And advocating for what was important to advocate for and letting go.
What wasn't right. That was difficult for me.
Yeah.
And so this is something that I want to become more comfortable with.

(06:10):
In my life, in my social media.
And I certainly don't want to roll over.
Like that's not the right thing.
Yeah.
The extreme that you knew before where you're pushing to make the other
person roll over.
That's not what you want either. Right.
Yeah. Yeah.
So I used to be the way where no matter how far you go,

(06:32):
I will always go one step farther.
Right.
And like,
especially when I came home from the military and I think that's part of
like the military culture is also is.
Accepting like a level of violence is as normal.
And probably like, don't give up.
Don't give in.
And I think that's part of the military culture.

(06:54):
And I think that's the way that I'm going to go.
And probably like, don't give up.
Don't give in.
Right. Stay.
Yeah. Yeah.
And we're always fighting each other.
You know, even, even if there's like a, an actual issue.
You know, and this was before my day in the military,
but you would go into, you know, behind the barracks or something.

(07:18):
And just beat each other up and, and whoever,
you know, you know, you know, you know, you're not going to get in the
way of the military.
And that was the loser, you know, and then at, at that point,
everything is done.
I remember in fact, when I first got to my unit and we were at the,
at the club, because this is before Sandy got there.
And I was out with, with the guys and stuff.

(07:39):
Somebody got into a, into a fight.
And all you just heard is someone yell bravo on your feet.
And so we were part of Bravo company.
And I'm looking around and everybody just.
I was like, oh, I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
So, because one of the guys from our company,
not even in our platoon, just our company got into a fight.
And, and then it became a company versus company battle.

(08:02):
So.
I, I brought it that way to the point where I would say like the worst.
The thing that scared me the most that really started to scare me with
the idea of being a red light.
And in Italy, you're not supposed to turn right on red.
So I was driving with my family and,

(08:24):
and I was out of red light turning right and I'm sitting there.
So the guy behind me beeps and, and I, and I go, but he was,
he was like, why was young then too,
but trying to show off for his girlfriend in the,
in the passenger seat and stuff.
And so right after we get on the highway and he decided he wasn't done with
the car, he was just sitting there.

(08:47):
And he was like, I don't know,
I don't know what to do with me for, for this mistake of not turning
right on red.
And so he pulled up along, alongside of me on the highway.
I was in the middle lane. He pulls up on the right lane and he's
given me the finger, but like Sandy sitting right there.
So I went, I went black.
And I just started slowly turning the wheel.

(09:09):
And my, my intention was to put him into the wall of the tunnel
at, at 70 miles an hour.
And as, and I was just a slow thing too. I didn't just jam into him,
just a slow thing where I started taking his plate and he started moving
over when he got onto the shoulder.
All's I remember is his girlfriend was hitting him. Sandy was hitting me.

(09:32):
But I don't remember like anything and then I finally just stopped kind of
snapped out of it. And I, and I realized like, I will take it to that point.
You know, where I'll hurt somebody and that scared me so bad.
Yeah.
One of the problems, ironically, that I've had though over the last 20 years,

(09:54):
dealing with PTSD and stuff and dealing with the constant negative
put downs of myself that I create.
I have gone when I started this,
I went to the opposite extreme, you know, I feel like I saw,
I feel like I started to where you could do,

(10:16):
and you can come up and punch me in my face and I'd be like, God bless you, brother.
Right.
You know, I'm happy I can make your day by, by allowing you to beat me,
you know, like type thing. And like you said,
I feel like I was losing part of myself.
Yeah.
You know, like I want to find that balance where I can,
I can still be kind, but,

(10:38):
but also still be confident and assertive, you know, like,
and that's kind of the word that I've,
that I've kind of adopted where I want to learn assertiveness where I don't
just roll over, but,
but I do stand up for myself, you know what I mean?
Because like you said, like I felt like I lost part of who I was in that

(11:00):
overcorrection.
Yeah.
I think it's interesting that we have opposite reptilian brains, right?
You go to fight or you used to, and I go to freeze, right?
But in both cases, we're totally losing consciousness.
Right. Yeah.
Yeah. Response. And I think this is an important discussion at this time in

(11:25):
the world too, because especially on social media, it's like when you hear
things about that I find like really dangerous and offensive, like,
gay people aren't humans or right, like some kind of crazy judgment.
And do I have a job and responsibility to stand up for that?

(11:47):
First question.
If I do stand up for that and the person is clearly demonstrating behavior is
that they're not interested in a conversation.
They just want to be right and mean.
Then do you just exit the conversation?
Right. Like, you know, whatever you believe in, in this world,
at what point do you stand up for it and what point do you draw back from it?

(12:12):
And I think that is a challenge as well.
And so it's like yourself, your family, but then it's also,
I have the question about world issues.
Or if you have a family member that believes something or is, you know,
this came up a lot with the last Trump campaign where people are like,
oh my God, my uncle's voting for Trump and I think it's bad or whatever.
And they let it divide them.

(12:34):
And when you're close to somebody like that, you might be able to have like a real
conversation.
But we have all this division happening.
And so there's one part of my brain that's like, I don't want to be part of that
division at all.
I'm not going to enter those arguments.
But then I'm like, well, isn't that apathy?
Like, isn't that why Hitler was able to take over because people are like,
I'm not going to enter that argument, whether or not Jews or people.

(12:57):
Yeah.
How like privileged am I to have that sort of apathy that I'm not, right?
I'm not a colored person.
I'm not a gay person.
And I don't know.
I just, I struggle with this concept.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It is, it is such a nuanced issue.

(13:19):
And I think that's a really important thing.
Because of just where we are in the world with technology and everything,
like I've heard people talk about how.
They don't believe that we were meant.
To get as much information.
About like world affairs as we get.
Today.

(13:40):
You know, because you have.
Trump has been such a divisive figure,
which I also think is the cause of.
The political climate prior to that.
You know, to create a space for somebody like that.

(14:01):
Then you have Israel and Palestine, you have Russian Ukraine.
You have the warlords in Africa.
You have the gangs in South America, which, which help drive a lot of the
immigration issue.
And then, and then right back to us, you have that whole immigration issue,
you know, where everything is an us versus them.

(14:23):
Yeah.
And.
I personally tend to stay out of.
A lot of that because I think.
As far as like the big issues.
For like, for instance, Israel versus Palestine.
I know a little bit, but I don't know much.
And I think that.

(14:45):
One of the things that, that they've, they've.
All right, let me, let me back up a little bit. So.
I heard, I heard this story.
This was a professor of mine named Perry, who was.
The coolest guy.
I have ever met in my life.
He's.
He was an archeologist. He dug in South Africa.

(15:08):
He's an African American guy. He had, you know, dreads.
He was like 70 at like dreads down to like lower back.
Wearing like the coolest clothes. I'm like, I love this dude.
And, and he, he was like, I want to debate. If you don't agree with me.
Stand up and let me know and we'll, we'll debate.
And he changed my mind on a lot of stuff,

(15:29):
but he told his story about this, this thing in history called the Bacon's
rebellion.
And it was, I think the late.
Um,
Maybe, maybe the mid 1800s. I can't remember at this point, but anyways.
So.
Prior to this, like there was, there was nothing called white.

(15:51):
There weren't white people.
There, there were like, you know, um, and,
and you had the slaves and then you had indentured servants, the, the,
the, like, you know, like the Irish stuff like that.
And they, at that point, they.
Pushed, you know, yeah, get married into racial marriage. Yeah. Not a big deal.
Yeah, go ahead, be happy, you know, all this stuff.

(16:12):
And what happened was the, the indentured servants and the,
and the slaves, they, they banded together, rose up under this guy named
Bacon and, and they, they revolted.
And they took over a bunch of plantations and stuff. And, and.
It was finally put down, but one of the things they did at the end of it.
Um, is they gave a little bit more rights.

(16:36):
To the white indentured servants. And then what that did was that caused
the white desert servants to start fighting against the, the black slaves.
So they used.
Conflict to divide and to separate.
And to me.
Yeah. Yeah.
Because now when they're fighting each other,

(16:57):
and they're fighting each other.
And now the plantation owners are sitting back with their sweet tea and
their cigars, you know, just enjoying life.
And.
It seems like.
In the media, which I think is just another arm of like our political
system.
That's what it does. It drives.

(17:19):
It inserts conflict into us.
And it creates an osse versus them.
an enemy.
Right.
And then what they do is they start to dehumanize the other.
You know, if like, I mean, and it's both sides,
you know, people that voted for Trump, they're stupid.

(17:40):
What was it with Hillary Clinton degenerates,
you know, Blackwood, Redneck, Moonshiners,
you know, white supremacists.
And, you know, maybe there are some in there,
especially the white supremacists,
but then on the other side, you know, you have, you know,
the Litwit and the, oh, they just want to,
they're socialists, they're communists.

(18:01):
They want to take my money and give it to everybody else.
And they start to dehumanize.
And that's something that's been used in war.
I mean, from beginning of time, I mean, every,
every war that we've had from the Revolutionary War,
we've had derogatory slang that was used for the enemy.
And you have to de, in my opinion,
you have to dehumanize the enemy in order to be able

(18:23):
to pull that trigger or do what you got to do
and not have it like destroy your soul.
Yeah.
And that's what, that's where we find ourselves,
like in this place of complete,
just divided conflict constantly,

(18:44):
because like you said, we're not,
we're allowing other people to be our consciousness,
the media, and the media is telling us,
how to react from that reptilian side of our brain
by using fear to drive up that anger.
Yeah.
So I tend to stay out of a lot of that stuff

(19:05):
because I don't know the history.
I don't know the truth of the matter.
Yeah.
You know, I can easily say like,
all right, 30,000 people dead, that's wrong.
Yeah.
You know, but I mean, it's so nuanced.
I feel like for the most part,

(19:27):
I have opted to be on the sidelines as well,
mainly because I feel like I have two choices,
be in the fight, be divided, or be on the sideline.
And it doesn't seem like there's a third option
of actually discussing things and coming to common ground
and that kind of thing.

(19:48):
But then it also feels sometimes sort of
out of touch and arrogant to be building a social platform,
right, or I don't know what you want to call it,
like expertise or influencer,

(20:09):
or being out in the world publicly
and totally ignoring what's happening
and posting a meme that's funny, right?
Like there's something sort of,
you know, there's children being killed over here
and you're like, ha, ha, this is what I did to it, right?
There's some sort of, something gross about that too,
like not acknowledging what's happening in the world at all.

(20:35):
And I just wish that,
I wish there was another way,
or I want somebody to show me a third option
of how to navigate the world
and stand up for what I want
without being drawn into these arguments or othering,
you know?

(20:56):
Yeah.
What I've been trying to do
with where I feel like this is where I want to be is
people can come at me, you know?
So if I have an opinion about something,
you know, I could say this stuff, you know,
and then people can come at me

(21:17):
and we have this idea of like,
I'm gonna treat you how you treat me, you know?
And that to me is just going to lead to conflict.
Oh yeah.
So I've made this decision where I'm gonna treat you
the way I am because nobody,

(21:41):
well, I'm getting to the point where I wanted,
I wanna be able to say nobody can control my feelings
because my anger is beautiful and it's sacred
and it's mine, my emotions are sacred, you know?
In church, I learned for the longest time,
emotions are evil, you're not supposed to have them,
all this stuff, but my emotions are sacred to me.

(22:03):
I mean, they're what make me me.
And nobody is gonna be able to control how I react.
So even when, and for me, like my platform,
like I'm gonna put out my message
and the message that I feel aligned with,

(22:26):
that I feel is my purpose.
And, you know, for instance, that's not,
see, I'm even like getting nervous of saying,
I wanna say this, but I'm getting nervous saying this
because I'm like, what are the comments gonna be?
Great.
My message is not free Palestine
or I stand with Israel, like my message is love.

(22:52):
So I'm gonna push that.
And then when somebody comes at me with,
you need to do this, you need to do this,
you need to do this, like one of the things
that I've learned is like all of that
is a reflection of who they are inside.
And what they're trying to do is put that on me.
Like if I don't have the same stance that they have,

(23:13):
again, it's gonna create a me versus them.
And now they see me as an other and they gotta go at me.
Great.
But I'm trying to still look at them as,
they're just people, they got their message,
they got their passion, whatever,
but they don't realize, wow, I don't even know

(23:36):
how do you say this?
They don't realize that it is just a reflection of their
inside, I'm not the one making them mad.
Right.
They're just mad.
Yeah.
So I'm not gonna stoke that fire in them
because I lived in that for so long.
God, it feels icky.

(23:56):
Oh my, it's a miserable existence.
Yeah.
I mean, like you literally get to this point
where you're trying to control the entire world.
And when it doesn't go the way that you want it to go,
you lose your shit.
Yeah.
You know, which means I would lose my shit 18 times a day.

(24:20):
I control it.
Yeah, I mean, the other day, I'm like,
I'm like prepping coffee for the morning.
And I wasn't thinking, you know,
my mind was other places and the little scoop hit,
just barely hit the edge of the coffee maker
and all the coffee grounds all over the floor.
And I'm like, all right.

(24:40):
So I'm like, all right, yeah.
Yeah, ass like now go clean all this up, you know,
cause you're an idiot and stuff like that,
but I'm laughing about it.
You know, whereas before I would have spent 20 minutes
walking around the house screaming my head off,
you know, because of coffee grounds.
Yeah.
You know, so understanding that people's anger,

(25:02):
even about like these issues,
it's a reflection of them inside.
And when I see that come out,
I've now gotten to the point where I can feel bad for them,
because I remember what that's like, you know,
and I remember how debilitating living in that constant state

(25:24):
of readiness for conflict, how exhausting that can be.
Yeah, your nervous system is just jacked up all the time.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
You know, attention headaches,
you see all these people that have all these things,
like one of the things I just learned about was like cortisol,
how you can tell somebody that has a lot of cortisol

(25:46):
on their system, cause they'll have like a big body,
but their arms and legs will be like little toothpicks.
Yeah.
You know that, you know, for the longest time,
I could not lose weight.
I mean, I would be eating carrots
and drinking these disgusting juices
that Sandy makes for me, you know, like,

(26:07):
and not having anything that is good, you know,
no cookies, no ice cream,
like none of the like major food groups that I grew up on.
And I couldn't lose weight.
And when I started to meditate and lower my stress level,
you know, when I started learning about
what cortisol does in our system,

(26:29):
all of a sudden like I dropped like 50 pounds.
Yeah.
Isn't that crazy?
Like, most middle connection to weight, yeah.
Yeah.
So I mean, just in that, taking on other people's need
of conflict or their anger, their misery,
whatever it is that they're dealing with,

(26:52):
taking that on into ourselves
is gonna have a biological reaction,
not only emotional and mental,
but a biological reaction in our system.
Yeah.
You know, and we talk about health and stuff like that
and not putting in processed foods and stuff.
Well, the other thing I don't wanna put in
is somebody else's processed thoughts.
Yeah.

(27:12):
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, I've noticed that for me,
another red flag is if I start to feel like
I have to prove myself or defend myself,
it's like that's a red flag that like
something's not clear here, right?
Like I've entered into the game of this, of conflict.

(27:35):
Yeah.
But, you know, that's challenging to do
when it's an issue that you care about
or, you know, I guess the way I've been handling things
as they come up is I'll take one step in
and then if it's clear that that's not a discussion,

(27:58):
I just thank the person for their opinion
and step back out.
I mean, it's a little bit different in real person,
you know, like close relationships,
but on the internet, I think that's all you can do.
Right?
Because having an internet conversation with a stranger
that simply does not want to entertain any other ideas

(28:22):
is just a waste of your time, right?
You're not really furthering the issue of anything.
You're solidifying their position by arguing with them.
Right, right.
And that's some of the comments that you get
on your socials like piss me off sometime.
I go back into like,
like I feel like the demons stern inside

(28:42):
and I want to like lash out with something horrible.
One time, all right, it's a little side note,
but so when me and Sandy split up,
we were both having some financial issues, you know,
and we were getting calls from bill collectors.

(29:04):
So I got a call from one and I was like, look,
it was a woman and I was like, look,
I just, you know, was separated from my wife.
Like I'm going to get all the straightened out,
just need a little bit of time to get my finances back in order.
And she said to me, you know,
because bill collectors, they're nasty,
they're supposed to be.
And she said to me,

(29:25):
maybe if you can handle your finances,
your wife wouldn't have left you.
So I was like, okay, you took it there.
And I'm like, my rule,
I'm always going to take it step farther.
I started having phone sacks with her.
And she hung up very, very quickly.
And it was a couple of days later,

(29:46):
I went over to pick up the kids and Sandy was bawling.
She had just lost her mother like a couple of weeks prior.
And she was on the phone and I'm like, you know,
I was asking her what was going on.
And it was a bill collector.
And she was trying to explain
how she spent sending money to her.
Sending money in and stuff,
but her mother just died, you know,

(30:08):
she'll get to it, she forgot.
And the guy was just being nasty.
So I was like, well, that worked with her.
So let me see, you know,
so I was like, let me have the phone.
And I'm like, listen, why are you being like this?
You know, I gave him a chance
and he was still being nasty.
So I started describing to him
what I was going to do to his mother.

(30:29):
And he hung up.
And the funny thing was is that next day,
they called, like somebody else called back
and set up a payment plan with her.
The payment plan was actually less money
than she was sending.
She was sending like $50 a month.
They were like, just send us $10 a month.
And like, dude, that could have been handled
so much easier.

(30:50):
But yeah, so some of the comments that you get,
I want to go back to that.
You know, that's the urge I have, especially,
do you mind if I bring one up?
So you posted something and the first comment somebody put,
but why are you talking like that?
You know, and they spelled out, you know,

(31:13):
and you have naturally a more like,
I don't know, what'd you call it?
A voice or something?
Yeah.
And like, dude, when I smoke,
I turn into like Jack Nicholson.
I'm like, dude, let's talk about consciousness, man.
You know, like I go completely into another like
voice personality.

(31:37):
But for those people that are just saying stuff,
to just say stuff, to just be mean,
their punishment, whatever you want to call it,
karma, reward, you know, whatever,
is they, if that's what they're putting out,

(31:59):
imagine what they feel inside, you know?
And it's hard to do because we take that stuff so personally.
I mean, and because a lot of times it triggers our own
insecurities about ourselves, you know, but,
like I was talking to a guy once when I worked at this program
who was schizophrenic,
we were talking about our internal versus external world.

(32:19):
And he said, the sad thing is,
is most people create an internal world
that is so disgusting, nobody would want to live in it.
So that's why we have to try to control everything externally.
You know, and I thought that was like, I was like, dude,
that was one of the wisest things I think I've ever heard.
Yeah.
I think your example of the bill collector was really good.

(32:41):
And that was one of the things that I was sort of,
I don't know if I'd use the word struggle,
but contemplating and looking at,
like I posted some kind of meme that said like,
everybody's having a hard time, you have no idea,
like be kind to the people who you interact with
in your life.
And somebody made a comment that's like, you know,

(33:01):
something about like, I lost my job
or somebody didn't give this to me.
And so I'm not going to be mean to them or something.
And I was like, well, you know,
like you can be nice to the human
and still hate the organization
for their decisions or policies.
But, you know, it's just,

(33:24):
and they came back with a reason why they couldn't.
And then I just left it because it's like, well,
that's what I said, I took one step in,
I told you my opinion, if you don't want it.
But it's interesting to me as I start to get
more and more comments.
I guess I'm questioning my responsibility, for example,

(33:45):
you saw the one, the one, me and my post-it
where it has like Jesus and he says, love everybody.
Yeah, yeah.
And then the guy, somebody else says like,
even if they're gay and then somebody else says like,
yes, even if they ask stupid questions, right?
It was just like a funny little meme.
I thought it was funny, right?
But like the amount of,

(34:11):
in my opinion, just like really horrible shit
that people say and judgment, and then I think,
well, like I don't want any part of this,
I want to delete it, right?
And it's like, okay, so if I post something
and somebody misinterprets it or they say something mean
on it, do I have a responsibility to hide their comment,

(34:33):
delete their comment, respond to their comment?
Like, where does my responsibility in this world end
if I say something and somebody misinterprets me
or I guess I'm just trying to feel this out
on a bigger platform, like as a person grows bigger
and bigger in the world and their message
and their impact is bigger,

(34:54):
they have a larger responsibility.
What does that really look like?
Like what are the nuances of that, right?
Yeah, I don't know.
I kind of...
Or do you just let it go?

(35:14):
But that seems irresponsible in a way.
But so I guess my question would be
is what do we have a responsibility to or for?
Do we have a responsibility for...
That's a good question, right?
I have a responsibility for my clarity
but not for the other person's understanding.
Yeah, okay, because in the social media world,
even though it's nasty comments,

(35:36):
and I still struggle, like if I get one,
like I start like, I'm like, oh man, I'm stupid,
because it triggers my issues, you know?
But every comment, I saw a video once,
this woman, she was, and she just looked
like the most confident, strong person

(35:58):
and she was explaining why she loves
getting these horrible comments.
So she's like, because all you're doing
is pushing my message out further and further.
So every horrible comment I get,
it's like upping like how far the algorithm is.
Yeah, and that means that my message is reaching

(36:18):
more people than it does resonate with.
Right.
You know, it's getting there on the backs of assholes
but it's getting there.
Yeah.
And so I think that our responsibility is to our purpose.

(36:46):
I don't know if that gives me a lot more clarity.
Yeah.
You know, I mean, I guess that would be a good thing
for like a deep medicine dive for me, right?
Yeah.
You know, because you're like, if you asked me,
like what is my purpose, I would say,

(37:08):
to help people come home to themselves.
But even if I know that, I still don't understand
how that plays out in all these nuanced situations.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's still, but it would be,

(37:30):
it would be an interesting exploration for sure,
like a deeper inner exploration.
Yeah, I remember watching a documentary on Jane Goodall
who I think she's just the most amazing woman.
And she started going into pharmaceutical companies

(37:51):
and touring where they kept the chimps.
And then she would give a speech like afterwards
and she would show the chimps in the wild.
And she would show them the behavior of the chimps
in the cages and how, you know, how they were acting.
She said, you're damaging.
So she showed like the humanity of the chimps.

(38:13):
She showed them their consciousness
and she was getting death threats.
She was being called a traitor to the, you know,
conservation type movement.
And she said this, she said,
if you want to change someone's mind,
you have to first touch their heart.

(38:34):
And that's kind of become, I don't know.
Internet.
Yeah.
Like I get that practice with a real person,
but I'm not like that practice is really hard
on social media, right?
Yeah, but each person that interacts with us,
is a person that is coming to us with their experiences,

(38:57):
with their perspective, with the way they see the world.
And a lot of them come as assholes.
Right. It's very spiky. Yeah.
Yeah. And I've gotten to the point where I can see them.
I don't respond that way.
Like I don't, I never respond immediately.

(39:18):
If I get a good, if I get like a good comment,
like I just post something about UFOs and stuff.
And this dude was like, the Fermi paradox says,
and I'm like, I don't know.
I don't care what you're saying, but I love you.
You're awesome.
Fermi paradox and stuff.
So I made a video off of that.
And then he brought me some even more information.
Like there's this theoretical vehicle

(39:40):
that can move through space and time.
Like, you know, so it'd be almost like interdimensional type
travel instead of interstellar travel and stuff.
And we're into that.
So I'm responding immediately.
Like my thumbs are just going like, like I'm like a 12 year old,
you know, but when I get the ones that are telling me I'm wrong,
I have to hold back because like at first I'm, I'm like angry.

(40:04):
I take it personal and stuff.
But then after that little bit of time,
like I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like,
I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like angry.
I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like angry.
And then the other thing that I remember,
like that is a person that has had their experiences that has
built who they are and how they see the world.
And sometimes I'm like, you know what?

(40:27):
They got a point.
You know, and.
Other than, and other times I'm, I'm like, no,
you're not right.
And I'll make another video off that like explaining where I'm
going to be.
I'll make a video about that.
And I'll make a video about it.
And I'll make a video about it.
So that's what the hell you're talking about or whatever.
Because my, my message is, is like, love is the most one of the

(40:51):
most powerful force. I think the only thing that is more,
I know, I know, like energetically the vibration.
The only thing that that is,
it is a higher vibration than just love is authenticity.
And I think authenticity is, is basically like a love of yourself.
Yeah.
And, and since that's my message,
that's how I've decided I will always respond.

(41:12):
So call me what you want. Say what you want. Whatever.
That's a reflection of how you feel about yourself.
But how I feel about myself.
Is.
I feel love. I feel gratitude. So I'm going to come at you from
where I am, not from where you are.
But I'm going to come at you from where you are.

(41:36):
And that's helped me out so much.
Yeah.
I've had it.
Oh, go ahead.
I would say like, but I kind of brought one too far.
So I had to start working a little bit more.
I'm being a little bit more assertive.
And being like, don't play Kate.
You know, say like,
I don't agree with you.
And there's nothing wrong with that.
Right. That's that. I think is a really deep truth.

(41:59):
I mean, I don't agree with you. Thanks for your opinion.
Yeah.
Yeah. That I do a lot, especially with religious people,
because if you're going to try to prove that you're right or wrong
by like telling me Bible verses, and that's not my frame of absolute
truth, we're never, we're in different universes, right?
I can just thank you for your opinion and, and move on.

(42:24):
Yeah.
There's so, so much stuff that I read.
I think it was a book that I read.
There was a, there was a Malcolm Gladwell wrote this book called
the bomber mafia about the, I think it was a hundred and a hundred
bomber squadron from World War II.
And.

(42:45):
There was, there was this guy named Fessinger who became a very prominent
social psychologist who studied Colts.
And he studied this cult called the Seekers and.
And so all this, this woman who, who was a leader brought all their
followers in and a UFO was going to land in her backyard and pick
them up so that they were saved from the apocalypse.
And it was supposed to happen like at four o'clock.

(43:08):
So he, he's like watching all this happen four o'clock.
She comes out of her room and she's like, I got a new message from the
aliens.
Like there's traffic, you know, whatever they're, they're running a
little bit behind.
They're going to be here at midnight, not at four o'clock.
So they're like, all right, great.
So they're waiting, they're waiting.
And midnight comes and goes nothing.

(43:29):
She comes about out of her little sanctum, whatever.
And she's like, I got another message.
They're coming on this date.
And you know, and that date comes and goes, I got another message.
They're coming on this date.
And so what he found was that.
When we have a belief system.
And to me, this is again, one of the paradoxes that, that I'm falling

(43:51):
in love with with life is that.
We have belief systems, but belief systems are a box that we're put in.
You know, that we believe from here to here.
And I'm trying to expand that and just be.
A seeker, you know, to be able to accept new information without having a
belief wall that it just comes up against.
And he said, we have a belief system and I, and those beliefs are challenged.

(44:14):
We don't question the beliefs. We double down on them.
Yeah.
And in the religious side.
That's, that's what I have.
I have found, you know, my background in Christianity.
I mean, going to church from.
Five years old, if not younger up until like 43.
Reading my Bible constantly.

(44:36):
You know, for a span, I read it.
I read it.
I read it.
I had it down.
10 chapters a day.
And I can get through in three months.
And I did that religiously.
And I feel closer to God on this side where I stepped away.
And I ever did.
When I was in there.

(44:58):
And so this is,
this will be like one of the controversial things that'll really piss off a
lot of, a lot of people that hold that faith.
And that's not the intention. This is just what I believe religion has turned
into.
But I believe religion is turned into.
Like a, like a thinly veiled humanism.
It's a worship of self.
It's all about.

(45:20):
Right.
Like I just saw a video.
This lady's whole account.
Is her on an airplane.
At a, at a, she was at a train station.
On a bus where she films herself.
Yelling.
Can I have your attention?
I want you to know that Jesus Christ died for your sin.

(45:41):
Like you're filming this. Like this isn't for God.
This is for you. This is pride.
Yeah.
You know, and.
And I think that is sort of,
they've taken the message.
Of Jesus. And they've turned it into a way to control.
And, and it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a,
it's a way to control.
And again, it creates an us first them.

(46:03):
Yes.
Which is so weird because the, the, the,
the very words of Jesus.
Are.
Yeah. I would that none die and go to hell.
And you're like, Oh, you don't, you don't, you don't think,
uh, homosexuality is an abomination. You're, you're going to hell.
I can't wait to see you burn.

(46:24):
All right.
Well, the guy that died for you and gave you salvation says that he
doesn't want to see anybody dying go to hell, but you do.
And you're on, on his wavelength dude. No, you're not.
Not at all.
You know, like the judgment, the, the hatred, the fear.

(46:45):
Yeah.
That, that is baked into that.
And I feel very, very bad.
For them.
I feel like I'm going to be a little bit more selfish.
I really remember, you know,
because I was deeply religious to church four times a week,
that kind of thing.
Oh, yeah.
Someone would argue with me.

(47:07):
I would just feel more and more self-righteous.
Yes.
And it was actually like a high, right?
Like, right.
And you're wrong. And.
And I feel like I'm going to be a little bit more selfish.
Like when you go to hell and you'll, then you'll know, I was right.
Like it's so separate.

(47:29):
And so like you said, kind of arrogant or prideful or like.
That position of like, God gave me the right to judge you.
Yeah.
Right.
And that.
Yeah.
You know, I feel like I'm going to be a little bit more selfish.
But I feel like I'm going to be a little bit more selfish.

(47:52):
And then I would come up against that. Right.
There's nothing you can do or say if somebody is.
In that place.
And not is challenging.
And, and for the most, but not, not, not for,
and because I know a lot of great Christians that.
I miss from my church days, you know,
like thinking about needing community.

(48:14):
And I think that's, that's what I'm saying.
There's just a lot of the, the other ones that are there, you know,
I mean, I was even told once in church, like, I,
I don't like dressing up.
I like being comfortable.
So.
I own a suit because I, I was in like my cousin's wedding and that's

(48:36):
the only reason why I own a suit, you know.
And I had a guy telling me it was a friend of mine.
And I was like, I don't know what to do with it.
I don't know what to do with it.
I don't know how he dresses up for God because God's worth it.
And.
I was joking around. I was like, Oh, I didn't know that God had the
queer eye.
You know, like for that, like the nice, you know,

(48:58):
and he got, he did not like that one at all.
And I'm like, well, I think, I think God's more concerned with the
outward appearance or with the inward appearance than the outward.
But he was like, I'm not going to be in my sweater.
You know, I wasn't coming in as a bum,
but I wasn't coming in in the, in the three piece suit and everything,
you know, so that I, so that God can look at me and be like,

(49:19):
this dude knows fashion. All right. He's, he's a good one. You know,
but that's what it's been turned into.
And.
If you, if you think or say anything against that.
I think that my, my.
Unbelief should not be a challenge to their belief.

(49:42):
Yes.
When it, it becomes that to me,
it tells me that their belief is, is again,
another Bible reference is built on sinking sand.
You know, it's not something that is.
It's not the foundation. I mean, Jesus talked about, you know,
building the church on the rock, you know, the foundation of everything.
Well, rock is unmovable.

(50:05):
And me saying like, no, I don't believe this is triggering you to the point
where you're having like an aneurysm, like something's wrong.
I'm laughing because when you said that.
Like I grew up with salty, the singing songbook.
He is right.
I haven't heard that in so long.

(50:27):
All like this salty place.
And there was a song I love that was like,
don't build your house on the sandy land.
Yeah. Yeah.
Salty the singing songbook song in my head.
Dude, do you remember Father Abraham song?

(50:48):
Oh yeah, totally.
Father Abraham.
So we, my family, like we got a group text.
And somebody put out, oh, we're doing a father's day slash
my daughter McCarrie's birthday.
So I think it was my dad or something that put like, oh,
Father McCarrie.
And then that just kicked that song off my head.
So I typed in like the first line.

(51:09):
I was like, Father Abraham had many sons and many sons had Father Abraham.
And then my younger daughter Ruth just puts in right arm.
We just kept the whole thing going.
Oh man.
I love that song.
I love that song.
Salty the singing song.
But before Salty came in my head,

(51:32):
I was having another thought and it's kind of what you said too is
that.
My platform.
I say what I want to say or in an argument, I say what I want to
say.
I think that's the difference.
It's their responsibility, whether they want to pick it up or not

(51:54):
pick it up or pick part of it up.
But as soon as I engage in, I want to change your mind.
That's when things get sticky.
Even if that's on the comment thread, no matter where it is.
I think that's the difference that I was really seeking.
And this investigation is.

(52:16):
I'm not giving the other person the right to say what I want to say.
And all my feelings.
But as soon as I notice that feeling of like, I'm right, you're wrong.
Or I have to change your mind because.
It's show you the error of your ways.
Then I'm in arrogance.
Right. And I'm not giving the other person.

(52:37):
I'm not holding them as able to make their own mind based on just
the information that I've provided.
That's what I believe.
I am starting to think I'm right and you're wrong.
And I have to correct you.
That's a red flag.
Yeah.
Because that's when I'm no longer holding the other person is able.
To look at what I'm saying and make their own decision.

(53:00):
Right. I have an agenda for them.
That is so, I think that is like.
Out of everything that that right there is the piece for today.
Yes, I agree. That's what I was looking for is like,
what's the difference here? Like I want to say what I want to say.
But I don't want to get into this.
I'm right. You're wrong. Right.
So I have to recognize it in me when it comes up.

(53:22):
Yeah. And that's where I came up with like that whole Scooby-Doo thing.
Like, like ask off because then.
Like, because like, like you said, when I'm doing it for that means
I'm doing it for me.
Yes.
You know, but like going back to like the Jane Goodall, like,
if you want to change someone's mind, you got to touch their heart.
And sometimes, so to me, that means leading with love.
And sometimes that means acceptance, accepting the fact that.

(53:45):
They don't, they don't agree. Like I had, I had two, two people.
Commenting the used to comment constantly on my stuff.
I don't believe they follow me anymore.
Um,
But they were always telling me how I was wrong.
You know, even one of them, when we had Diana and she said, there is no destination

(54:08):
to grief.
She came out. She's like, that's wrong.
The destination is acceptance.
So, and this happened like multiple times with this one person where I would
then make a video off that. And I said, yes, we want to get to acceptance,
but that grief never goes away.
It may become less in time, but then there's going to be times like the,
the whole analogy with the ocean where those waves are going to come in and

(54:31):
just smash you.
And then they're going to be like, I'm not going to do that.
I'm not going to do that.
I'm not going to do that.
And they can be 10, 20 years down the road.
And then she completely agrees with that.
You know, so she's saying I'm wrong, but then she's agreeing with what I'm
saying.
You know, and, and there were so many times like I wanted to just.

(54:52):
You know, the, and my angry brain was like, you know,
just put out something like, dude.
If you're going to just willfully live a step above stupid,
then it's going to be like, oh, I'm going to be like,
what the hell is this?
I'm going to be like, I'm going to be like,
you know, that's who you are.
That becomes about me.
Right.
You know,
in judgment.
Right. You're an arrogance. You're it. That's who you,
you're putting those things in the side of your heart.

(55:14):
I'm putting myself above her because like, oh, I'm smarter.
I'm wiser, whatever it is.
You know, but when I react with,
I'm still going to be loving because.
I kind of feel.
It's like, you know, like, you know,
I kind of feel like I'm the best person that that said like.
For some people, changes impossible and I had.

(55:36):
I had.
Responded to her and said, even if they want.
To change, even if they notice.
That change is needed and they want to work on change.
No, can't, they can't do it.
It's impossible.
And everything that I'm learning about the brain and granted,
I'm learning from my house. Not.
in school, but the neuroplasticity of the brain is amazing.

(56:02):
Yeah.
And so I truly believe changes is able, you know,
or all able to change.
And so when I try to get that across
with as much love and understanding and kindness

(56:22):
as I possibly can with strength in there.
Because I think one of the things that has happened
is kindness and empathy and all that stuff
has been turned into weakness.
You know, like this whole thing like a nice guy,
being a nice guy, being nice is a trauma response.
And I'm like, what the fuck?

(56:43):
Yeah.
Why is being nice a trauma?
Well, it's because you learned
that you have to people please.
I mean, I'm not like, I can be nice.
All right.
So there was a lady, so I talk about this sometimes
like as a professional pool player,

(57:04):
which I just play at Friday nights
with a bunch of other people that,
I mean, there's a lot of people that are good,
but most of us suck.
And I'm definitely in that category,
but this lady was just having an off day.
And was a very talkative, kind of being a little mean.

(57:25):
And I just kept going at her with kindness.
So we have to compare the scores.
And one time she like snapped at me and I'm like,
I'm so sorry, I'm sorry.
You know, like joking around,
like I'm a scared little kid.
And then she stopped.
My intent was her to laugh a little bit.
And she smiled, but she said, I lost my father this week.

(57:49):
And I'm like, oh my God, dude.
So I got up, I gave her a hug.
She's now, every time I see her, like we talk, you know,
I've played her a couple more times and we joke around.
Like when I went up to play her, she's like,
oh, no, how, you know, and then laughing about it and stuff.
So we have now a good time.
So you never know, like when we lead with the heart

(58:12):
to touch the heart instead of to change the logical brain,
like that's where the magic happens.
Okay, I have a big question for you.
So that is also my experience in one-on-one small groups,
100%, that is my experience.
On a huge level, is that possible?

(58:37):
Right?
And you look all throughout history
and you see movements that were based in love
and kindness and acceptance.
And most of the time those people get assassinated.
Most of the time we just kill those people
if they start talking about love.
But could the world on a mass scale become a better place,

(58:58):
not fighting tyranny, but through love?
Like, I'm not using the right words,
but do you understand what I'm saying?
Like, can you upscale that?
And does it really work at these large scales?
Or do you have to stand up for injustice?
So I absolutely love that question

(59:22):
because this is something that I've just recently said,
like sort of solidified like,
no, this is what I believe.
I believe the answer is yes.
However, I do not believe we're gonna change anything by,

(59:43):
and I got in trouble for saying this before,
but I don't think anything's gonna change
by writing our congressmen or our senators,
by doing the things that we kind of do
to feel like we're doing something,
but that doesn't really change anything.

(01:00:04):
Right.
For instance, like there's people,
like all the protests for Palestine and stuff,
that's great, great.
But you know what would be, in my opinion, better.
And I understand not everybody has the ability to do this,
but go there.
And work as a humanitarian person,

(01:00:28):
put some action behind the thing.
I think SNL did a thing like where people were going
to a protest and they were stopping at a taco truck.
And like before that,
but people gotta do what's right for them.
But I think the fight is not out that way.
I think the fight is this way.
So I think that I can help be a change in the world,

(01:00:53):
not by telling everybody what I think
and what I believe and what's right and what's wrong,
but by making sure that I am the brightest light
that I possibly can be connecting with other people.
Like, I mean, the way that we found each other,

(01:01:14):
which then like Fridays, we came out,
I was exhausted.
I am like, why'd awake right now?
I am so full of energy, dude.
Because that's what you do, like fire feeds itself.
And that's how it'll change.
So for me, my message of love, consciousness,

(01:01:37):
being fucking nice to people
because it's not a trauma response,
not allowing ourselves to be walked on
or if you see someone else being treated horribly,
not saying something.
I mean, I'm like 48,
and like the proudest moment of my 48th year

(01:02:00):
was I got into a fight.
It was at pool and it was some other people,
but I was trying to break it up or just separate people,
but it was like, the fight or flight
had taken over these guys and they were like,
I don't care if I get arrested and go to jail,
I'll get out of jail and come to your house
and kick your ass again.
And I'm just like, dude, you guys think you're tough,

(01:02:23):
but you're just little chihuahuas like shaking.
You know, but you think you're tough.
And then there's one dude grabbed a girl,
grabbed a girl's wrist.
And when I heard that, I was like, we're done.
And I just, I take karate online.
So my online set, I'm joking.

(01:02:43):
That's from the office, remember?
My online sensei.
But just from watching years and years at WWE,
like I hip-tossed the dude and put him on the ground.
And then I was on top of him and then I was like, we're done.
I wasn't angry.
I wasn't mad.
I was like, we're done.
And that stopped the altercation.

(01:03:05):
Now, unfortunately, the next day, I couldn't move.
Like the right side of my body hurts so bad.
I'm too old for this stuff, you know?
But so it's having a level of standing up.
Yeah, there is a point of action
where you stand up for injustice.

(01:03:27):
But then when the threat is gone, you back back down,
you don't keep pursuing that person, right?
Or that group of people, whatever it is that's happening.
Yeah, there's no need.
Sadguru in one of his books wrote this story
about the Buddha when he was one of his past incarnations,

(01:03:51):
he was a bear.
And so the hunter was digging a hole, a trap,
and he fell in it, got stuck.
And this bear comes along and the hunter's like,
can you get me out of here?
I'm gonna die in here.
So the bear starts rolling all these massive boulders
into the hole and the guy's able to climb out.
And the guy said, I'm lost, can you lead me out of the woods?

(01:04:12):
And the Buddha bear was like, yeah,
but I'm tired from moving all these boulders.
Let me sleep for a minute and then I'll bring you out.
So while the bear was sleeping, the hunter decided,
I can find my way out eventually with nothing
or have this bear lead me out and I'll have nothing

(01:04:33):
or I can find my way out, kill the bear and have the pelt.
So he picked up the biggest rock that he could lift.
And while the Buddha bear was sleeping,
he smashed it on his head.
And the Buddha bear woke up, got up on the back paws,
you know, like standing like 10 feet tall.

(01:04:53):
And the guy was like, don't kill me,
don't kill me, don't kill me.
And the bear just looked at him and he said,
you already got your punishment, man.
And he just turned around and walked into the woods
and left the guy there.
And the punishment was the guy to do that,
to act in that way, to try to take the bear's life

(01:05:13):
when he wasn't looking, almost like a sucker punch type thing.
Internally, that guy's miserable.
I truly believe that we will not change the world
because the powers that be are too,
the hold is too strong,
that we will not change the world by external means.

(01:05:35):
But we can change the world by changing our internal state
and connecting that with more people.
Yeah.
What I thought of when you said that was,
you were talking about shining bright earlier,
and it's almost like if I shine at my brightest,

(01:05:59):
that's when all the darkness becomes more apparent around me.
Because that's what the bear did, right?
When I shine it, when I am myself,
you have to sit with yourself.
Yeah.
Yeah, and I think that's powerful.
Yeah, I was talking online with some folks about,
you know, world peace and how to change the world and stuff.

(01:06:21):
And someone said, kind of similar what you said, right?
Like, you can build islands of peace, love, compassion,
and then the hope is eventually those islands get bigger
and then maybe they connect and then, right,
but that's growing it from inside out,
versus trying to dismantle this system that is so broken,

(01:06:42):
that has such a strong hold on the way things are right now.
Have you ever heard of, I don't know what it's called,
I call it the 1% rule.
I don't know.
Don't take any of this as like fact,
this is all gonna be like, you know,
paraphrased from my memory,

(01:07:04):
but I believe what they were trying to do
is they were trying to cool,
scientists were trying to cool helium down to absolute zero.
Like zero Kelvin, I guess, like they would use.
And while they were doing it,
they were trying to get it out to absolute zero,
so that's not to 1% above that absolute zero.

(01:07:26):
Something magical happened.
All of the atoms in that helium
became like symmetrically, all lined up beautifully,
you know, like in neat rows and columns,
like everything was just perfectly in line.
And that's how they became,

(01:07:46):
I believe, I hope I'm not butchering it too much,
but then like the consciousness people took that
and started looking at,
if we can raise the consciousness of 1%
of the people of an area, what would that do?
And they had done some studies,
and I forget the cities they did it in,
but you know, where they had people that, you know,

(01:08:07):
would join them and getting like a 1%
of the population of the city to start meditating,
focusing on gratitude, focusing on love,
focusing on just positive things, you know?
And again, not living, walking around with our heads
in the clouds, woo woo, you know, if something bad happens,
yeah, that sucks, you know,
but living the majority of our lives

(01:08:27):
in those positive states.
And what they found was crime went down,
there was so many beneficial responses
to 1% of the population of a city,
not doing anything except raising their level
of consciousness.
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I know there's been tons

(01:08:49):
of experiments with, you know, the random number generators
and different types of things like that,
where consciousness can change that.
I also really love the idea of,
and this is sort of like a nerdy D&D sort of way of thinking
that there's different roles, like it's good
that there is warriors out there,

(01:09:11):
like fighting in Congress and trying to change laws,
and this and that, but the fact that I'm not a warrior
doesn't make me less than, right?
That my role as, you know, being home and focusing
on my own consciousness or being back at camp,
making people food or being right,
that we all have roles to play
and they're all equal needed necessary roles, right?

(01:09:36):
I think that's another valuable thing,
because I know, you know, I've such a huge heart for humanity
and humans and I so wanna see the world
a more compassionate place, but I am not a warrior, right?
And sometimes I think I get confused about

(01:09:58):
how to own my own warriorship in the ways that are true to me.
Like what is authentic warriorship look like for Mindy?
Yeah, even that word, I got to the point like where
I got so tired of hearing the word warrior,

(01:10:19):
because it was one of those words like,
they romanticized war, and then romanticized the warrior.
Yeah.
And then romanticized the warrior, you know,
so all these movies that we see, you know, like.
Yeah, it's hugely romanticized, yeah.

(01:10:39):
And it's a lot different from watching a war movie.
Well, you've actually, yeah, been in it, so you know.
Like.
Yeah, like, like, lone survivor, you know,
like when I watched that movie, like,
I feel those stirrings again, like, oh man,
I loved doing that, you know,
and I was never in anything like that, you know,

(01:11:02):
but in those moments, those guys were operating off of
pure fear and terror.
And I'm not saying, like, again,
we think of those things as like, oh, you're weak,
you're afraid, no, that's what the military does.
That's the training that happens.
They train it into your automatic responses.

(01:11:24):
So that you can be feeling that stuff,
compartmentalize it and still get the job done.
But throwing yourself off mountains
and getting shot 20 times and making it through.
Yeah, that's great, but it's gonna leave scars.
It's not just gonna be a thing of, like, you know,
once it's done, like, yeah, I'm proud,

(01:11:44):
it's pretty cool, you know, I'm a warrior, you know,
and then now you have courses for warriors, you know,
so if you're like, you're a businessman, you know,
that the only time you step on grass
or you're out in the woods is like,
when you go to Central Park or something,
you know, for your daily walk.
And but you can give me 50 grand
and I'll yell and scream at you for a week.

(01:12:07):
And then on Saturday, you'll jump out of a helicopter
10 feet above a lake and we're gonna call you warriors now.
Yeah.
You know, even the fact like, like,
Lao, Lao,
Azu?
Yeah, Azu.
Yeah, who wrote the art award?
Is that, Lao's right?
Yeah, so the art award, like one of the first copies

(01:12:28):
I got of it was all the notes were about
how to apply this to business.
I'm like, why can't business just be business?
Yeah.
And like, why do we have to be a warrior
in everything that we do?
You know, so that part, and I'm grateful for the people
that have that ability to be on those front lines

(01:12:51):
and to be in that, but I wasn't that dude.
You know, I did my time I got out
because like I was not that dude.
But what that does is it makes us look at our roles
as less than glorified warrior status.

(01:13:13):
Yeah.
And it also shows how that might have contributed
to people's sort of fight nature in our culture, right?
Yeah.
You feel like, I'm a warrior for my opinion, right?
That sort of, yeah, I think that is something
I'm gonna take a deeper look at.

(01:13:35):
Like, what do I really think about
that concept of being a warrior?
Is it necessary in the world?
What does it really mean?
Who do you have to be to be that?
Right, I think that's an interesting exploration.
Yeah, so I just thought a while ago,
like, you know, people that wanna be a warrior, great,
be a warrior, I'm fucking cosmic dude.

(01:13:55):
Yeah.
Like I wanna be so far above, and again,
not because like I'm so great,
but because that's where I find my peace.
One of the things with the military is when you come home,
no matter what your experiences are, war,
you know, peacetime, whatever it is,

(01:14:16):
or even like mine,
where it's kind of like in between war and peacetime,
you know, and you don't feel like you belong.
You know, the jokes, the how you carry yourself
is not accepted as normal and right in the civilian world.

(01:14:36):
So you're a civilian, but you still have
the military culture, so what you learn to do
is put a mask on and over time,
that mask begins to crack and you start filling it
with alcohol, with drugs and all this stuff
that just makes it worse and worse and worse and worse,
because you can't be you.
Yeah.
And when I think of, I am cosmic,

(01:15:00):
like I'm just above that floating,
it feels so peaceful and I get there from time to time,
but I wanna learn how to live in that state.
And I don't know, maybe that's impossible to do,
but that's where I wanna live.
Yeah, I kind of think it's,

(01:15:20):
I don't know if this is right or not,
this is just the way I'm seeing it today,
like, you know, we all have all these parts of us, right?
And living just in one part is unhealthy
and that's what we're talking about with warrior.
I'm just a warrior, right?
I'm just a mom, I'm just to this,
I'm just to that, like, instead of having all the voices,

(01:15:41):
oh, here's my inner child, here's my inner warrior,
here's my inner, whatever it is,
but then I think you're right,
there's something above that,
when it's just consciousness and you're like,
all those things are the same thing,
that's so funny that they're pretending to be different,
right, and you're everything.
And that's sort of what you're talking,
but so it makes me curious in two ways.

(01:16:03):
One is like, ooh, that's actually unhealthy,
like this full identity with warrior-ship,
and that's what you're describing when you come back
and you don't have any other parts
of your personality developed,
so you can't fit into the world.
But then, yeah, even after you learn to see
all the different parts of you,
then there's still this other juicy, wonderful step

(01:16:27):
of just, you know, being with the stars,
being everything and nothing all at the same time.
Yeah, because that's where my brain goes into this place
of where, okay, so there is no center of the universe.
The center of the universe is based off
of the point of observation,
which means I am nothing.

(01:16:49):
I'm just this dude in Newington, Connecticut
that smokes weed and talks to my phone, you know what I mean?
But I'm also the center of the universe,
I'm the most important thing here.
At the same time, you know, and it's in the same way for you,
you know, like we're nothing and everything at the same.
You are the center of the universe.

(01:17:09):
So you, like, if you decide, like, all right,
my purpose is like, all right,
or what I'm gonna start doing is like to act
on my compassion, my care,
I'm gonna start working at a soup kitchen,
you know, on the weekends, volunteer and stuff like that.
Then that means since you are the observer of the universe,

(01:17:30):
which means you are the center of it,
that means to the universe,
that is the most important action that has ever been taken.
But then for somebody else that is the warrior,
like a legit freaking warrior.
Right.
Since they're the center of the universe,
at the same time,
what they're doing is the most important thing, you know?

(01:17:51):
But imagine if we can learn to live
where our consciousness takes these other characters
of our personality and kind of uses them as like a marionette,
you know what I mean?
Just kind of controls the strings and stuff,
but it's the consciousness that's in control
and not the character.
Yes.
Yeah.
That's I think a beautiful description of quote unquote,

(01:18:11):
enlightenment, right?
Like recognizing that this is all a play
and it's not really real.
Yeah.
Dude, one of the things,
oh man, Neil DeGrasse Tyson was talking about this,
like we have never interacted with the outside world.
Meaning like what does that mean?
Means that everything that we've ever done in life

(01:18:34):
has always been internal, right?
So I'm looking at this screen and seeing it,
but my eyes are just seeing colors and shapes up
and my brain is decoding that and making this reality.
Your voice is sending out sound waves,
you know, that my ears are bringing to my brain,
my brain's decoding.
And I'm like, I understand that.
Like if you were speaking any other language, but English,

(01:18:57):
I would have no freaking clue what you were saying.
You know, my brain isn't coded for that.
And then like, all right, here's,
I'm holding this pen.
I can feel it, I can feel its weight and stuff.
But if you look, if we had an atomic microscope
and we looked at the space in between my pen and the finger,
the pen would be floating

(01:19:18):
because the atoms in the pen are repelled
by the atoms in my finger, their different polarity.
So all of that feeling is the electromagnetic force
that's pushing in on my finger.
We've never interacted with the outside world.
Everything is internal.
That's where the fight is.
That's where the change can happen to go in.

(01:19:42):
Yeah, beautifully said, really well said.
That was a really great hour.
I think that was a juicy conversation.
I think this is like one of my favorite ones
because I love this stuff.
I wanna learn how to live in that higher state.

(01:20:06):
So bad, because I'll have this conversation
and in 20 minutes, I'll stub my toe
and I'll be like, my life sucks, why am I light?
And it'll be like, I'll be right back
into the cycle of fucking feelings, man.
Yeah, so bizarre, huh?
Right, yeah.
Cool, being a human is just so cool.

(01:20:27):
Yeah.
All right, thank you everybody for the investigation today.
Thank you, Keith, for the investigation.
That was helpful to me in managing everything
that I am going through in my life right now.
And the most beautiful thing is like the synchronicities
because I was down yesterday, bad.

(01:20:49):
And this is such a reminder of all the stuff
that I fell in love with that helped me
begin to make the changes I had to make in my life.
Yeah, yeah.
So thanks for bringing that up.
Wow, all right, cool.
Well, we'll see all you guys next week and,
oh well, hold on a second, sorry,

(01:21:11):
I'm doing the wrong buttons here, guys.
Bye guys, stop recording.
Thank you for listening to the Chasing Thoughts podcast.
Please support us by liking, subscribing
or leaving a review or comment.
We would really appreciate it.
If you'd like to be a guest,
we would love to explore life
and what it means to be human with you.

(01:21:32):
Please email us at chasingthoughtspodcast at gmail.com.

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Chasing Thoughts | S02 E24 Thoughts on Conflict

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Chasing Thoughts | S02 E24 Thoughts on Conflict