February 23, 2021 • 70 mins
Mari Fong interviews Jordan Benjamin (grandson), then Mari Fong (Life Coach for Musicians) talks with Kat Jensen. Jordan Benjamin AKA grandson shares his story of living with symptoms of bipolar, his manic episodes, and his family history of bipolar and other mood disorders. His ADHD-like impulsivity as a youngster, acting out in school, his relationship with pot and other substances.
What does grandson keep in his mental health toolkit? The importance of finding creative outlets, his experience with meditation, the dichotomy of emotions, and the power of manifestation. Being an activist with his charity the XX Resistance Fund and how you can participate in positive social change. grandson’s debut album Death Of An Optimist dropped on December 2020 and his single, “Dirty” currently #9 on the Billboard Charts. We share a clip of grandson’s “In Over My Head.”
Mari talks with Kat Jensen on how to deal with life when it gets overwhelming and we feel “in over our heads.” What it means to “catastrophize” with ways to resolve it, and the proven, positive mental and physical effects of CBD oil.
“Be brave, ask for help, and be persistent in finding the mental help that you need.”
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Welcome to the Check Your Head podcast, a podcast
where notable musicians andexperts come and share their
stories and solutions for mentalhealth and wellness.
I'm your host, Mari Fong, amusic journalist and life coach
for musicians, and today I'mexcited to have an up-and-coming
musical artist, Jordan Benjamin,also known as Grandson, on the
(00:24):
Check Your Head podcast.
Granson's debut album, Death ofan Optimist, dropped in December
of 2020, and when I first sawGranson's music video for his
single, Dirty, it was definitelya wow moment.
This song was a mixture of rock,electronic, a bit of hip-hop,
with melodies I could sing anddance to.
(00:44):
And then when I heard Granson'sentire album, not only did the
songs blow me away, but But thelyrics jumped out at me as well,
because Granson is not only amusician, but he's also an
activist, singing about socialjustice, bringing life to topics
like mental health and guncontrol, all with the hopes for
positive change.
(01:06):
So when Granson's single Dirtyrose to the top 10 on
Billboard's Alternative Rockcharts this month, I wasn't
surprised.
And I can't wait to see his liveshow, because if his live show
is anything like his musicvideos, I know Granson's show
will definitely go off.
So for our interview, Grandsonshares his story of mood
disorders and what he does tosoothe his soul and tame his
(01:28):
sometimes impulsive behaviorsand emotions.
He also talks about his charity,XX Resistance Fund, and how his
fans, that he calls hisgrandkids, can also participate
in positive societal change.
After that, Kat Jensen and Iwill talk about Grandson's
interview, focusing on what todo when we feel overwhelmed with
(01:48):
life and what it means tocatastrophize, and the uses and
benefits of CBD oil for mooddisorders and more.
And we'll end the episode with aclip of one of my favorite
grandson songs off the new albumcalled In Over My Head.
So let's start by hearing JordanBenjamin, a.k.a.
Grandson, share his story.
(02:09):
Today we have Jordan Benjamin,who is Grandson.
That's me.
with your music, with yourvideos, and especially with your
debut album, Death of anOptimist.
(02:30):
It's really a great example ofthat.
You talk about so many differentissues, some of them being
political, some of them beingjust human issues like mental
health and drug addiction.
But I wanted to start offbecause we are in the middle of
(02:51):
this pandemic, and you're albumis so current about what's
happening today which is anotherthing that I love about it but
with the chaos of 2020 and thelockdown how has your mental
health been during this time
SPEAKER_00 (03:08):
you know it's uh it's really hard I pride myself
on being pretty pragmatic I Ioften associate my mental health
with a sense of productivity.
If I feel that I'm beingproductive, I feel better.
It feels like a better day.
(03:28):
And it's hard sometimes to feelproductive when you really don't
know what part of the pandemicyou're in, when it's tough to
decide how much should I bebuilding towards finding
sustainable routine within thepandemic or continue to treat
(03:53):
this like it is this weirdpurgatory that we're merely
passing through and be putting aton of my emotional investment
into getting out to the otherside of this pandemic.
You know, if somebody came to meand told me, look, you got a
hundred days, you got a hundreddays, you got to sit inside, you
got to wear a mask and thenyou're out.
I would be springing intoaction.
(04:15):
This is what I'm going to do formy 100 days, especially now with
the expectation of thisconstantly available presence on
social media.
Here's my 100-day vlog.
Let me just keep working,working, working towards this
countdown.
But the uncertainty of thepandemic definitely makes
(04:38):
staying on top of your mentalhealth hard.
So it's a long answer, but it'sa complicated question.
I think I, like a lot of people,just go through waves of feeling
on top of it and then days whereit's really, really hard to
envision the other side of it.
But as I'm sure will come upthroughout this conversation, I
apply that pragmatism and thatsense of productivity to my
(05:03):
mental health, I'm prettydisciplined about putting
together a regimen of thingsthat are going to make me feel a
little bit better.
And usually when I'm goingthrough a low patch or like a
manic episode, I can usuallytrace back.
There's something in my toolkitthat is being neglected, whether
(05:26):
that's nature, whether that'swriting in my journal.
There's things that I do for mymental health.
And so I just lean on my toolkitreally hard in this time.
And when I stay on top of it,I'm feeling good.
And then other days it's alluphill.
SPEAKER_01 (05:42):
Yeah, I totally agree.
I mean, one thing that you saidthat is really key is
uncertainty.
There's been a lot of that in2020, a lot of ups and downs.
But, you know, I tapped intosomething that you said, which
is manic.
And oftentimes when peoplesometimes when people refer to
manic periods and depressiveperiods, it could be like a sign
(06:06):
of, you know, maybe bipolar orit could just be, you know, like
way ebbs and waves and tides.
of emotion.
How would you describe that foryourself?
SPEAKER_00 (06:17):
You know, I don't think anybody could be faulted
for feeling up and down in thistime.
It's certainly hard to untanglewhat is a product of this
complicated time we're living inand then what is something
that's inherent within you.
I come from a family wherebipolar disorder and personality
(06:39):
disorder is There is examples ofthat within my family, within my
extended family, cousins, and onmy father's side.
It's something that has neverbeen diagnosed.
When I was a kid, we did a testfor having ADD and a mild
(07:01):
bipolar disorder.
A lot of the questionnaire, thebells went off, but Mostly, I
was doing those tests to justget out of a course that I
needed to drop so that my GPAwouldn't plummet when I was in
college.
I never really took it thatseriously until later on in my
life when I was able to be morehonest about my relationship to
(07:23):
smoking pot and the things thatI had built up as coping
mechanisms.
And it was certainly no hardshipof mine to wake up and be high
before even 9, 10 in themorning.
But it was much more complicatedwhen I was trying to really get
to the bottom of what is it.
It's like sometimes you gothrough the motions.
(07:45):
I'm watching myself put on myshoes.
I'm watching myself get running.
And I don't even know what I'mrunning to or running from.
It's easy to get caught in thosecycles.
And my 20s have really beendefined by getting to– know
myself a bit better.
And it's really a uniqueopportunity.
Being a musician, being on tour,having experienced a little bit
(08:07):
of success, thankfully, in mydesired field, it's an
incredibly enabling environment.
And it gives me a playgroundwith which to really navigate
these different sides of mypersonality, my ego.
So there are parts of the upsand downs that I navigate that
(08:29):
are in my nature and other partsthat have been nurtured in over
the last year and over my
SPEAKER_01 (08:38):
lifetime.
I've gone through my own ups anddowns and struggles.
And I do think that mentalhealth is a journey.
It's like we start to learn moreabout ourselves and ourselves.
as time goes on.
And I'm glad you brought upfamily history because
oftentimes things like ADHD orbipolar or depression are passed
(09:01):
down through families.
And it gives us more insight onwhat we could do with ourselves
and with our future.
I mean, how have you been ableto kind of deal with those
things?
I mean, a lot of people havedifferent kinds of solutions.
I mean, what has worked for you?
SPEAKER_00 (09:19):
Yeah, I feel very, very lucky that I come from a
family and I'm living in a timewhere these things aren't met
with the ridicule or with theskepticism that they have
traditionally been met with,especially in men and
traditional views onmasculinity.
(09:41):
I didn't really grow up with aton of that.
As early as 13, 14 years old, myparents were were sitting me
down and trying to help meunderstand my aggressive
tendencies or my impulses to actout.
And very early on, around thattime in high school, I was
(10:01):
getting into just kind of likejuvenile problems of just acting
out in class, I got caughtshoplifting one time, you know,
with the money to buy this thingin my pocket, you know, I just
walked out with it and gotcaught and it was a really
important opportunity for me toreally reflect on, well, what
was it that I was trying tocommunicate to people?
(10:21):
And very early on, my parentsintroduced writing to me.
I had naturally leaned towardscreative writing my whole life,
but the practice of journaling,finding the language with which
you talk to yourself, seeingyour thoughts reflected back at
you on the page, it's verysobering.
(10:44):
I would write in these almostdrunk, very impulsive, with a
lot of hyperbole andself-deprecation.
I would read it later and havethis primary source footage that
became increasingly valuable tome as I would reflect back on
these times in my life that werereally up and down.
(11:09):
Journaling was something that Ipicked up at an early age.
Smoking pot was something that Ihave been doing since I was like
12, 13 years old and has been attimes helpful and at times a
detriment to my mental health.
That one's a complicated onethat I don't actually think is a
one size fit all.
I don't think people should bespending their life in prison
(11:29):
over it, but I do think that itcan exacerbate certain
predispositions people mighthave towards things like mania,
bipolar disorder, schizophrenia.
So For me, it was findingcreativity, finding these
outlets, and then spending alittle bit of time in quiet.
It's easy.
I've been a city kid my wholelife.
(11:50):
I grew up right by the traintracks and always lived in
cities my whole life.
It was only when my oldersisters started introducing me
to nature.
Not just going for a walk aroundthe block, but getting out for a
couple days, doing some camping.
I know that that nature can bekind of inaccessible,
(12:12):
particularly for people ofcolor.
It's very much dominated bywhite males.
But I really do find getting outinto national parks, getting to
sit with your thoughts, spendsome time in silence, that
really helped.
And then over the past year,finally, being able to sit still
and meditate.
(12:32):
And I've been using Headspacefor a year.
It was excruciating at first toanybody listening who...
who goes, oh, no, that's not me.
I couldn't do that.
I could not sit still for asecond and spent most of the
first couple sessions justwaiting for him to tell me I
could finally get up and go.
Slowly but surely, if you sitthere long enough in timeout,
(12:54):
you can maybe get a little bitof silence.
That's been how I've beenstarting my days.
I think like a lot of things,you can develop the world's best
game plan And then wake up oneday and none of this shit is
working, you know, and then yougot to just refocus or sometimes
the best thing I can do for myday is stop trying to fix it and
(13:15):
just embrace feeling like shitthat day or whatever it is.
And, you know, cancel your plansand sit there and feel sorry for
yourself.
Sometimes that is what you need.
And I think that we operateright now.
There is this desire for instantgratification that I have to
battle because it is such ajourney, as you were saying, you
know, mental health.
You're stuck with yourself.
(13:37):
You're going to bed with thisforever.
So you better learn how to makepeace with it.
SPEAKER_01 (13:44):
Yeah, I think that's the thing is that we can't
escape it because it's in ourhead.
And sometimes we try to figureout what is actually going on.
And sometimes our thoughts orour behaviors can frighten even
ourselves, right?
We're trying to understand itourselves.
First of all, I applaud you fordoing the meditation because you
(14:05):
just described having some ADHDtendencies, which already is
tough to sit still sometimes.
But what did you get frommeditation?
What is it that you receivedfrom that?
SPEAKER_00 (14:20):
Well, I think that...
Number one, particularly when Ido it at the beginning of the
day, doing guided meditationshelps me a lot as far as
intention setting and beingdeliberate with my time,
recognizing how much time Ispend anxious about the future,
anxious about the past, thinkingof past relationships, things I
(14:43):
went through I would have donedifferently, those arguments you
have with yourself in the showeror something or right before
bed.
I spent a lot of time and spenda lot of time living either in
the past or the future.
And when you recognize just howephemeral this present moment is
and that it's just constantlyliving and dying and looking at
(15:05):
old pictures of yourself,looking at old relationships
that felt so real andconsequential at the time that
now it's just water under thebridge.
With that, with me, I thinkcomes a little more humility,
and I can be a little easier onmyself and others.
One thing that Headspace reallyhelped me with, and I'm not
(15:27):
sponsored by them or anything,by the way.
I'm not getting any money forthis.
I'll take it, but honestly, no,this has just really been
something that helps.
They also helped me frame...
your practice of thoughtfulness,setting your intentions, being
grounded, not just for your ownpersonal benefits, but think
critically about how your mentalhealth is affecting your
(15:50):
relationships.
And if not for you, reflect onhow being a little more patient,
being a little more grounded,being a little more grateful,
how those things can impact theday of the people that you're
spending your time with, whetherthat's your partner, your
family, your roommates, whateverthat may be.
(16:12):
And, uh, typically for me,that's accompanied with this
sense, like this feeling that Ican really fuck it up, that I
have a ton of consequence, thatmy actions can really, um,
impact other people.
And, and in the times where I amreminded of my, of how small I
am and that maybe the worldisn't revolving around me,
that's actually comes with acertain deal of, uh, a relief
(16:36):
for me personally.
So that's, that's how it affectsme.
And I know other people it'sdifferent.
And again, most days I sit thereand, and maybe I get 30 seconds
of stillness in a 10 minutepractice.
Still, even just sitting there,it helps a lot.
I, my, my mother, And I sufferfrom– I have a hard time
sleeping.
I'm a super light sleeper, andit's really hard for me to fall
(16:59):
asleep some nights.
And I remember being a kid andthe anxiety.
I would be doing the math in myhead.
Well, if I go to bed now, I'llget six hours of sleep.
Oh, God, I'm supposed to geteight.
I'm going to be so upsettomorrow.
Oh, if only I could go to sleep.
Look, now it's five and a halfhours.
Oh, and my body would tense up,and I would be so anxious about–
(17:22):
living that next day.
I remember as a kid, it'ssomething that stuck with me.
One day, I just recognized, youknow what?
I'm going to be tired tomorrow.
I'll probably get a nap in ornot, but it's certainly not
doing me any good sitting hereall anxious about it.
My mind is clearly racing.
What do you want to talk about?
What are you thinking about?
(17:42):
I started thinking about mymusic and production, things
that were keeping me up,relationships in my life that
were giving me a hard time.
In accepting your nature and inaccepting that desire to spin
your wheels sometimes, you canactually get certain revelations
that can be quite helpful.
And in meditation, in sittingstill, I'm forced to confront
(18:07):
some of those things that arekeeping me up at night.
SPEAKER_01 (18:11):
Yeah.
Thank you so much for that.
You know, sometimes thatacceptance does calm your mind.
And that app, Headspace, isactually on our website, which
is techaheadpodcast.com, becausewe have apps and telehealth and
all kinds of things that you canuse, you know, as part of
(18:31):
solutions.
You know, in 2017, we lost threemusicians to suicide.
Chris Cornell of Soundgarden,Chester Bennington of Lincoln
Park, and EDM DJ Avicii.
And the thing is with yourmusic, you know, you have rock,
you have electronic, you havehip-hop in there, and I'm sure
(18:52):
like these artists, when youheard the news, I mean, what
kind of reaction do you rememberhaving after hearing that news?
SPEAKER_00 (19:01):
Oh, man.
Yeah, like anybody, like...
Obviously, Chris Cornell,Chester, super, super
influential on me.
And I remember even celebritydeaths like Robin Williams, even
Kobe Bryant, where it wasn'tnecessarily deliberate, but yet
(19:22):
there felt like there was thisgreat cosmic unfairness.
It really destabilizes yoursense of...
Our relationship to findingpurpose in life and the good guy
wins and the bad guy gets hiscomeuppance, those things are so
fragile.
(19:43):
And when that social contractfeels violated, when somebody
who you think has it all makesthat ultimate– gesture,
statement about their life ortheir mental health, it is
really hard to reconcile.
And you're wondering, well, thenwhat am I doing?
What am I working so hard for?
(20:03):
I think like a lot of people, itwas just one of those kind of
nauseous moments to just stopand reflect.
And it sucks.
I've been fortunate enough to bewelcomed into the both through
my collaborations with Chester'sbandmate Mike Shinoda for the
(20:25):
20th anniversary of their albumHybrid Theory.
I put out a cover that LinkinPark reposted.
I've had a ton of love from theLinkin Park community.
We're talking about a millionstrong people still reeling.
I don't know where they were inthat moment for Chester, but for
(20:46):
anybody that struggles withthose fantasies or or thinks
about, um, committing suicide,you know, it's just, you leave
behind a hole that people spendtheir whole life unable to fill.
Just looking at how many peopleshave been, have just been, you
know, wrecked by and trying tomake sense of a thing that is
(21:06):
inherently, um, impossible tomake sense of.
It's, uh, It's tough, and Ireally feel for anybody who's
been affected, for sure, whetherit's a friend or in these
celebrity relationships, we feellike we know these people, these
parasocial relationships wedevelop with our favorite
celebrities, and when somethingbad happens to them, you feel
(21:26):
like you've lost a friend.
SPEAKER_01 (21:29):
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
In fact, this is the reason whyI started the TechHead podcast,
was because of those deathsthat...
These musicians brought me somuch joy.
You know, how can they leavethis life in so much pain?
And the other thing, you know,you mentioned, you know, about
ADHD is that sometimes it'sreactive and sometimes it could
(21:52):
have depression components.
And so if you can imagine beingin a depression and then also
having that reactive componentto maybe something that happened
to you and you act on it.
Yeah, yeah, and I think we havea...
SPEAKER_00 (22:23):
a particular fascination with celebrities who
are gone too soon.
We often die-ify them, weglorify them, and we give them
the flowers that we didn't givethem when we were alive.
I think for a lot of people,there's something strangely
attractive about that.
There are times where, in thepast, I've fantasized about how
(22:50):
my If I were to do somethinglike that, how would I be viewed
in this community?
Would the impact I make besomehow greater if I were to
leave at the height of my careerinstead of living too long?
But those fantasies are reallyimportant to make sense of and
(23:10):
to voice out loud and bereminded that You can do
anything in this world.
You just can't do nothing.
I like reminding fans of thatwhen people bring up their
mental health.
There is nothing in this worldthat is irreversible.
If you are in an environment, ina household, in a community
where you don't feel accepted,your people are out there.
(23:33):
It is a big world, and there isa whole lot of love waiting for
you.
But certain things you can'tundo, and it's important to make
sense of that and be vocal aboutit.
And, you know, I've been veryfortunate to work with a
therapist for basically eversince my career began.
And I understand and recognizethat that's a privilege many
(23:55):
either can't or don'tprioritize.
And making sense with thosethings, speaking them out loud
and feeling understood in thosemoments, that really helped.
SPEAKER_01 (24:09):
Is there a certain kind of therapy that you use?
And also, what are the benefitsfor you as far as therapy goes?
SPEAKER_00 (24:17):
Sure.
I work with a psychotherapist.
We spend a lot of time tracingpatterns, exploring subconscious
impulses.
Sometimes we talk about dreams.
Sometimes we talk aboutchildhood.
And of the benefits, I'm a bigsports fan.
The easiest way I can explain itis if you are an athlete, you
(24:44):
spend time watching film.
You replay the events andscenarios so that when you go
play again and you catchyourself in those moments, you
can reflect on the work that youdid to recognize, okay, in this
scenario, this is the rightplay.
And In doing therapy, I'm ableto study the game film of my
(25:08):
emotional impulses.
When my sense of abandonment istriggered, this is how I
respond.
When people start getting closeto me, when I feel threatened,
this is the typical ways that mysubconscious will act out.
Then as I would find myselfgoing throughout the motions, of
(25:29):
daily life and I catch myself inthose familiar positions, I'm
much more acutely aware that I'min one of those scenarios and
where this typically heads forme.
So it was a really importantintervention for me as far as
rethinking my behavior andwatching when I am low, when I
(25:49):
am manic.
I find myself back in thesetoxic relationships that are no
good for me.
I find myself leaning on copingmechanisms that often might
provide short-term benefits, butthere will be this big crash a
couple days later.
Therapy just really helped me byholding a big mirror up.
And I think the first day Ithought that he was going to
(26:10):
have this brilliant insight andI would have this goodwill
hunting kind of catharticmoment.
And a lot of the time,unfortunately, that's not really
how real life works.
It's a lot less glamorous.
Some days I would go in andleave wondering like, what was
that?
What did I even pay that guyfor?
What was this?
But sure enough, it reallyhelped me navigate a very
(26:31):
turbulent time in my life,especially taking therapy
sessions on the phone.
pacing around a Walmart parkinglot when you're on a day off in
the middle of a two-month tour,it really helped me kind of hold
on to something and haveaccountability as it relates to
my behavior.
SPEAKER_01 (26:49):
Well, you know, you spoke about, you said word
intervention, and you alsotalked about, you know, the
depths that kind of brought youinto therapy.
Can you describe like anincidence or an event that you
could think of that really, youknow, was a low point?
in your life that really said,you know, I need to get some
help?
SPEAKER_00 (27:10):
While I'm sure I could think of a couple, I
probably don't even remembermost of them at this point
because I probably was only semieven there a lot of the times,
whether it was, you know, likegetting blackout drunk and doing
something dumb and Waking up andhaving to retrace in this
embarrassing way, apologize topeople that you had acted out
(27:32):
with.
For me, it was really more ofjust this steady progression,
this feeling of being up to yourneck and feeling overwhelmed.
you know, moving out to LosAngeles, not having family,
immediate family here, nothaving those anchor points with
(27:53):
which somebody can kind of shakeyou up and going, you're going
through something right now.
My decision to go to therapy wasbecause I didn't want to find
myself in those moments.
Like I didn't want to wake up ornot wake up because I acted out
in this impulsive way.
So it didn't take...
I didn't have one of thosemoments.
(28:15):
And I hope that people don'twait until they have to have one
of those intervention points.
For me, it was just recognizing.
It just felt like there was thehighs and lows didn't have to be
quite so polarizing.
You can be the one with yourhands on the steering wheel.
Sometimes I would feel like Iwas on autopilot.
(28:38):
acting out because I was unableto recognize where and how my
impulses in the present momentcould be explained through
retracing my behavior in thepast.
It was as easy as the decisionto get a personal trainer or
something.
(28:58):
It doesn't always need to bestepping on the scale and having
the number.
Sometimes you just want to bebetter.
That was what it was for mepersonally.
SPEAKER_01 (29:07):
Well, it sounds like you have a lot of self-awareness
and also a lot of experience,you know, trying things and
maybe having it work out in anunexpected way and really
looking for guidance.
You know, as you were talking,it reminded me of your song
Riptide, which you did with MikeShinoda.
And it touches on battling badhabits and references to drug
(29:31):
addiction.
And we talked a little bit aboutpot, you know, and now that
Cannabis is legal in a lot ofstates.
What were the pros and the consfor you with using pot?
SPEAKER_00 (29:45):
Yeah, oh my gosh.
This is something that I'mreally passionate about because
I've been getting high my wholelife practically.
And I've had a lot of friendswho have gone through really,
really hard times where pot wasa part of that and it didn't
help.
Particularly, I would say someof my low points included when I
was about 17, 18 years old, Iwas dealing with pretty bad acne
(30:07):
and I was, uh, prescribedAccutane or one of these, uh,
you know, uh, anti back.
Right.
Yeah.
And I don't think it was kind ofgloss.
I was probably only half payingattention.
I was just ready to get thesepimples off my face so I could
get laid.
Uh, and I really wasn't payingattention when it, when they
were telling you not to drink,not to smoke pot.
(30:30):
And, uh, At the time, this was astory that was true for a lot of
kids my age, where itcontributed to these feelings of
manic, depression.
I had one of my closest friendswhen I was around 16, 17 years
old.
He started smoking a lot of weedand would start behaving
(30:54):
increasingly erratically.
I remember one time I wasstudying for an exam when I was
in college in Montreal and I gota call from the police saying he
had gone missing.
They couldn't find him.
They found him trying tohitchhike and he couldn't
explain what he was doing there.
You see these commercials now.
(31:17):
It's so much more widelyaccepted now.
And for me, pot stimulates mycuriosity.
It enables me to sit with aguitar, sit with production
software.
I can sit for hours in ways thatotherwise my attention wanders
or I can get more down onmyself.
(31:38):
It really opens up a certaincuriosity for me creatively that
I really enjoy.
And I can get giggly and all thegood things that come with it.
But for me, it was very, very...
hard to find any sort ofmoderation with it.
It was kind of like either I wastaking a really hard line stance
(31:59):
of sobriety and then I wouldmiss it, I would have a really
good time getting high, andthen...
I wake up and I've got an itchto get high.
I'm just trying to make it untilthe sun goes down so I can
rationalize it.
But then I'm finding new excusesand all of a sudden I'm getting
high a couple times a day.
(32:20):
And those things aren'tinherently bad for me, but it's
the accumulation.
For me...
It would take about four or fivedays of being stoned, and I
would just wake up and just feellousy, like grumpy and down on
myself and irritated.
(32:40):
Because when you're gettinghigh, whether it's smoking pot
or something that's a littleheavier, you're trading
tomorrow.
You're trading tomorrow for thatpresent moment.
You're tapping into resources inyour brain, whether it's
dopamine or serotonin.
You're taking them at theexpense of how they would
(33:02):
normally be distributed, and youjust wake up just feeling
miserable.
My relationship to MDMA is verysimilar to my relationship to
psychedelics.
Those things are positives in mylife.
I would not be honest to sithere and tell you that those
were bad things.
They really helped turn my lifearound and open up all kinds of
(33:24):
new neural pathways.
Doing acid when I was a kid, itwas just– I can't even describe.
I left it a different personthan I was going into it.
I don't think that that's a badthing.
But man, those next days arelow.
They're really tough and– Ittook me a long time to finally
(33:44):
recognize.
I don't know if it's alwaysworth dealing with that
comedown.
That was what led me to takingbreaks from these things.
Now, I try and feel it out, butagain, with a little more
accountability, a little moreself-awareness, and when I catch
myself doing thosejustifications in my head,
looking for an excuse, that'swhen I know that I'm probably
(34:08):
better off putting it down.
The last thing I'll say as itrelates to pot, I found CBD to
be a really effective tool forme where I was still able to
scratch that itch, but withoutthe psychoactive properties,
without the impulsivity withoutquite as much as a hangover the
next day.
So to anybody that is trying tofind some alternative, because
(34:32):
there really isn't a good one, Idid find smoking CBD.
It helped, at least.
But yeah, that's been as earlyas 12 years old.
SPEAKER_01 (34:42):
Yeah, I mean, CBD, of course, has a calming effect,
and pot could have the samething, and CBD can also be used
for pain.
I'm glad you talked about itbecause a lot of musicians, not
only are you in an industrywhere it can be everywhere and
sometimes more accepted than,let's say, going to a therapist
(35:04):
or taking medication.
Has that ever been...
Something that you've tried?
I mean, as far as a prescriptionmedication?
I
SPEAKER_00 (35:14):
mean, recreationally once or twice, but never
something that was prescribed tocombat these negative emotions.
But I have people in my lifethat have taken anti-anxiety
medication, antidepressants, andit has been really productive.
It has worked really well forcertain people.
(35:34):
For other people, it doesn't.
Big thing I think is just notlosing your imagination and your
ability to dream of a betterversion of yourself.
I think that none of thesethings are going to work.
Don't inherently believe thatthey will or if you don't
believe that you're worthy ofanother version of yourself.
(35:55):
For me, taking care of myselfwas as simple as recognizing
that there just has to be abetter version more calm
equilibrium for me to meet.
And until I was ready for that,then there was nothing that...
Then I was just going throughthe motions of self-help.
Then I was just going throughthe motions of taking care of
(36:15):
myself.
So I think you have to really,when looking at familiar habits
or relationships that aren'tproductive...
if you're not willing to auditand re-examine these different
factors that are contributingand, and isolate some variables
in your life, then, then you'rejust not ready to get better
yet.
(36:36):
And, uh, that's okay.
You know, don't rush, don'trush.
It's a, it's a lifelong journey,but, but being honest with that
is going to save yourself andthe people around you.
Just, just so much grief.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (36:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, it, it takes, uh, notonly self-awareness, but also a
lot of experience to kind offigure out what works for you.
And, you know, one of the, Iguess, things that I say with
the podcast is, you know, bebrave, ask for help and be
persistent in finding the mentalhealth that you need.
Persistence really is more likeFinding what works for you
(37:14):
because there are solutions outthere, but it's just trying to
figure out what is going to workfor your lifestyle, what is
going to work for yourpersonality and your brain
chemistry and all of that goodstuff.
SPEAKER_00 (37:26):
It's going to suck sometimes.
I think we do our best to paintit as it is a beautiful step in
your life, I think, when you dodecide to be the one making
these choices and find acommunity, find a routine that
helps you.
Some days it is way less funthan treating your body like
shit.
(37:46):
I understand that.
I'm not going to be here withany righteousness or anything.
And I know that that's not thepoint here.
But for anybody who feels likeexcluded because it is
challenging, it gets no easier,you know.
I remember I was watching somebodybuilder or somebody was
(38:10):
talking on YouTube and they weresaying that the weights don't
get any lighter.
A 20-pound weight is stillheavy, still 20 pounds for
everybody, but Ideally, you havethose days where you're like,
wow, I'm on top of my shit rightnow.
I would have acted out there,and I'm not going to.
Oh, good.
(38:32):
I had a really creative,productive day, and I didn't get
high.
I guess I don't need to be high.
This narrative I've told myselfthat I can't write unless, or
that I won't find love unlessI'm in this relationship that
comes with all this other shit,this baggage, and these fights.
Yeah.
wow, you have to give it achance to do its work, its
(38:54):
magic.
But then ideally those momentsoutweigh the excruciating nature
of long-term self-help.
A lot of times it sucks.
SPEAKER_01 (39:03):
Well, you know what I find really interesting as I
listen to you is that when youtalk, you talk about a lot of, I
guess, almost a struggle withinyourself.
Sometimes between hope andhopelessness and, you know, Good
and bad habits.
And I find that also in yourmusic.
(39:24):
And you have this thing with theX that is sort of represents to
me that maybe the bad side.
And, you know, you who kind ofrepresents you trying to be a
better person.
And you have this song in overmy head, which I love.
I love the beats to it andeverything.
And it's about kind of like thepessimism of life when it
(39:46):
overwhelms you.
So when you look, I guess, inyour past, I mean, how do you
hang on to hope when things seemso hopeless?
SPEAKER_00 (39:55):
Oh, my gosh.
Isn't that the question of 2020and going into 2021?
And I think for me, I can getvery scared by my own nihilistic
thoughts.
It's kind of I just hit thesemoments of if you don't got
hope, what do you got?
You know, you're not wrong to bediscouraged or to be cynical.
(40:17):
But for me, sometimes the bestthing I can do is stop looking
to change the world and startlooking to change someone's
world.
Just in my agency to not carrythe burden of life to the front
(40:38):
door of every relationship thatI'm in, thinking critically
about when and how I use socialmedia.
Am I using it to bring people upor am I going to be triggering
their anxieties?
Those sorts of things reallyhelp give me a sense of purpose.
(41:00):
I think we as musicians, I'msure you could speak more to
this, but one thing that Inavigated in therapy is I really
do believe in the powers ofmanifestation.
I'm not a spiritual person.
I believe manifesting is lessabout some spirit waving a wand.
It's more about the socialinteractions.
(41:22):
People don't want to get in theway of somebody who is really
driven and on their way to doinggreat things.
Typically, in deciding and inbeing really persistent, a lot
of people want to help somebodyout like that.
And I think that that plays intomy manifestation.
There have been times where Iwas in college, selling pot,
stoned all day, dropping out ofschool.
(41:44):
And I really decided I was goingto build this life.
I'm going to move to LosAngeles.
I'm going to write some songs,this and that.
And now I'm sitting there withmy gold record on my wall and
feeling all good about myself.
And, uh, Sometimes thatmanifestation hits these brick
walls where sometimes you're notthe one in control.
(42:06):
And this pandemic is a really,really good example of that.
I can't manifest my way out ofthis one because it's not about
what I can control.
Sometimes that sense ofhopelessness or feeling
overwhelmed is just a matter ofhaving to accept that the world
(42:27):
doesn't revolve around us andour actions and our impulses.
That's a really hard thing toreconcile with this personality
type.
It's been such an effectivemotivating tool for me.
It fuels my ambition.
It gives me a reason to wake upevery day and get after it and
be grateful.
All those words aroundproductivity, those are the
(42:49):
things that keep me movingthroughout the day.
I wake up today, oh, I've gotthis podcast interview.
How can I be the best guest Ican be?
How can I be the most thoughtfulwith these answers?
When I have to confront the lossof a loved one, when you have to
confront a pandemic,senselessness, it's really hard.
(43:11):
And it's supposed to be.
We don't have all the answers.
So for me, it is just trying tofocus on what I can control,
accept that which I can't.
And if I do that, then I canhelp make it a little bit easier
for somebody else And in doingthat, I have changed the world.
(43:32):
I have contributed to an overallbetter planet.
I want to leave the world abetter place than I found it.
I want to take my little sliverof the world with my
relationships, my neighborhood.
What can I do within this thingto be proud of myself and to
feel like I was here forsomething positive and get back
(43:54):
to my mental health toolkit?
And then you wake up the nextday and you just feel a bit
better.
SPEAKER_01 (43:58):
If you could just name those things in your mental
health toolkit, I'm reallycurious.
SPEAKER_00 (44:06):
I mean, you've already talked
SPEAKER_01 (44:07):
about some things.
You've talked about counseling.
You've talked about therapy andpot and so forth.
SPEAKER_00 (44:14):
So for me, it's like writing is a big one.
Obviously, as a songwriter, itcan't be that much of a surprise
for people.
But making things, creatingsomething.
I woke up that day withoutanything.
I sat with my guitar and wow,just like that.
That feels like the opposite ofdying to me.
creating something, makingsomething.
(44:36):
I really feel better when I'mdoing that.
That's what I'm here to do.
I also find working out andphysical exercise is a good
manifestation of that sense ofagency.
Taking care of your body,working against what comes with
a sedentary lifestyle.
(44:57):
If I sit around eating like Junkfood all fucking day.
I'm not going to feel very good.
So when's the last time I gotlike a good visceral sweat in?
When I couldn't even talkbecause I was so out of breath.
Those moments when I'm gaspingfor air, I'm bringing life back
in.
Those things, I'm just trickingmy brain chemistry into start
(45:17):
and feeling good.
Finding nature, you know, inCalifornia, that's easier than
some other places.
But going for hikes, goingcamping, those sorts of things
really helped me.
Spending time away from myphone.
It's really hard and onlygetting harder, but...
It's like an
SPEAKER_01 (45:33):
addiction.
Oh
SPEAKER_00 (45:35):
my gosh, yeah.
And then I go through, oh, whatif somebody needs me and I'm not
there?
What if they call and I don'tpick up?
And sometimes it's just, youknow, that might just be the
case.
You'll figure it out.
You're not going to throw itaway.
You're going to be back in 30minutes.
But even just putting my phoneaway and being unreachable for a
second, there is this like,oh...
(45:58):
I forgot that this little partof myself was checking 80 times
a day if I got thatnotification.
Those things all help.
Sometimes with my therapist, wehave regular scheduled calls,
whether it's every week or everytwo weeks.
I'm in a period right now wherewe're just catching up if and
(46:19):
when I feel that urge, thatneed.
After two years of workingtogether, we feel a bit more
comfortable having that space.
But typically that is a part ofit, asking myself, when's the
last time I had theseconversations with people that I
know make me feel better,whether it's a therapist or a
family member or a best friend.
(46:40):
And again, I can come on herelike I have it all figured out.
Just maybe two days ago, I feltlike garbage.
All of that, a lifetime of workamounted to me waking up and
still being super irritable,Completely not in the mood to do
anything.
What's the point of doing any ofthis?
(47:01):
When is this pandemic going tobe over?
You know, all of that.
And just having these kinds ofconversations, I feel better
already.
SPEAKER_01 (47:09):
Well, I'm glad you feel better.
(47:39):
people around us, especiallynow, to tell us that.
And so sometimes it's good totell ourselves and recognize all
the good that we've been doing,even amidst all of the mess that
happens with our lives.
SPEAKER_00 (47:54):
Well, we have no problem beating ourselves up for
the little failures.
But for some reason, the littlewins along the way, it feels so
like uncomfortable sometimes togive yourself that credit to big
yourself, big yourself up personlistening to this right now.
Like sometimes when me and mygirlfriend wake up and before
(48:16):
we've checked our phones oranything, we do three things
that we're grateful for thatday, whether it's, you know,
like I'm going to call my momtoday and I'm just so grateful
that she'll pick up when I calland that she's there for me or
like, When you cooked me thatdinner last night, that was so
good.
I appreciate that.
Just give yourself the fuckinglittle wins because that's life.
This is it.
(48:37):
It is the accumulation of theselittle moments that we were so
busy waiting for the next thingfor that we weren't even present
for.
This is the product of yourlife.
And if you spend those littlein-between times on autopilot
anxious or upset, then that willbe...
what your life amounted to.
And so I don't want to do that.
I want to win.
(48:58):
I want to feel good right here,right now.
And I want to trust that thatwon't come at the expense of
that later thing.
You'll figure it out down theroad.
You don't need to spend yourtime in the present.
So anxious about what's coming.
You're allowed to actually, youcan give yourself permission at
any point.
And now is as good a point asany other point in your life to
(49:20):
give yourself that permission toPause this video right now.
We're not going anywhere.
Just pause it and just giveyourself a little pat on the
back and reflect on if you'restill here, you made it this
far.
We'll wait.
We'll wait.
We're going to give you threeseconds.
Okay, we're back.
That felt good, right?
Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (49:36):
It did.
It did.
I have to mention this because Iknow one of the ways that we can
prove our mental wellness isto...
use our care for the world andfor each other to take action.
And you just described somethings that we could do on a
daily basis, you know, smallthings that make a big
difference in our world, youknow.
(49:58):
But you also have a charity.
It's called XX Resistance Fund.
That's right.
Yeah.
Can you tell me a little bitabout that?
SPEAKER_00 (50:06):
Sure.
Using things like memorabiliafrom Music videos or from live
shows I've done, auctioning offand raffling off meet and greet
opportunities, one-on-oneinteractions with fans.
You raise money for differentcharities that are impacting
(50:28):
things that different fans aregoing through.
So recent examples of our work.
We raffled off a bunch of stufffrom the music video for my last
video, Dirty.
We gave away some of the masksthat were worn in the video, as
well as a one-on-one FaceTimeopportunity.
We raised over$1,000 for theAlly Coalition, which is an
(50:52):
LGBTQ charity.
And yeah, just little thingslike that along the way.
We've worked with Music Cares inthe past, the Sunrise Movement
for climate justice, CampaignZero to end police brutality.
Just little things like thatwhere not only are we raising
funds and awareness for theseissues, but for me, the real
(51:16):
power of it is showing peoplethat getting involved in the
issues that matter to them is assimple as showing up.
It's like your mental health.
It is as simple as making thedecision that you're going to
get off the sidelines and getinvolved.
So many of the times that I talkto representatives from these
charities, from theseorganizations, they're from all
(51:37):
different walks of life.
They might have a regular 9 to 5and be doing this on their free
time.
They might be volunteering incollege.
Half the time, they're youngerthan me.
I always just, again, I thoughtthat activism, I thought that
that caring about what youbelieve in was somehow reserved
for the people that figuredeverything out.
(51:57):
And there was the rest of us.
But really, it's just as simpleas getting involved and doing a
little bit of research.
No matter where you're living,there are people that believe in
the things that you believe in.
And doing these littleneighborhood walks, local
cleanups, little things likethat, they make you feel better
and you feel a part of somethingbigger than yourself.
And Hearing COVID times, that'sjust so important.
(52:20):
So that's a little bit of thework that I do outside of my
music.
And yeah, it's very rewarding.
And if anybody wants to knowmore, then you can reach out to
me at grandson and we can talkabout it.
SPEAKER_01 (52:33):
Oh, that's so awesome.
You know, your music is so inline with your personality and
what you're doing.
Even, you know, the thoughts inyour head, you know, I can tell
they spill out into your music.
So thank you so much for that.
I cannot wait until seeing youlive because I've seen some of
the shows when you werepreviewing Death of an Optimist
(52:56):
and it was just electric.
SPEAKER_00 (52:59):
Oh my gosh.
Thank you for having me andthank you for doing this and to
Anybody listening that's goingthrough a hard thing, you know,
check your head.
Check your head.
You're doing just fine.
We're all going to make itthrough this time.
And hopefully this year brings alot of good stuff and a lot of
optimism into your life.
UNKNOWN (53:19):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (53:22):
Next, I'll be talking with singer-songwriter
Kat Jensen as we tackle topicslike the uses and benefits of
CBD oil for mood disorders andwhat to do when we feel
overwhelmed or in over our headswith life.
Well, we have the talentedsinger-songwriter Kat Jensen
with us on the Check Your Headpodcast today, and we are going
(53:43):
to talk about the grandsoninterview.
He has a song, it's called InOver My Head, which is kind of
the feeling you get when you'rekind of overwhelmed with life.
I mean, what do you do whenthings like school and things
like work and everything startsto collide together and you feel
overwhelmed?
SPEAKER_02 (54:03):
Well, you know, it's an interesting thing because
sometimes I have to go back andjust simplify things.
You know, I have to really getreal with myself and try to
simplify things.
I really appreciated it whengrandson, he spoke about putting
together your toolkit and, andI've been doing that myself is
(54:27):
putting together a toolkit andthat can entail, you know,
personally, these things thatcan help you.
Like he spoke about journaling.
Well, I journal every day and Idon't, worry about my writing.
I don't worry about my spelling.
I don't worry about, I justwrite whatever the hell comes to
my head.
And you put it there.
Some days it's going to be verylong.
(54:49):
Some days it's going to be justa little blurb.
But it's a place to put things.
And I find that helpful to me.
I also have used Headspace.
I've used Calm.
I've done meditation.
These are things that are allyou know, in my toolbox.
A big one for me is gratitude,is I try to go through a little
(55:12):
list of gratitude because itkeeps me in the moment.
It keeps me realizing that I'mokay right now.
But otherwise, my head can keepspinning trying to figure things
out.
And what I need to do, you can'tfigure things out when it's just
spinning around and around andaround.
SPEAKER_01 (55:31):
Yeah, I think that's a good time.
to step away.
Like I find that when I'mgetting so riled up with so many
things to get done, once I stepaway, I take my dog for a walk,
everything relaxes, my mind getsclear, and all of a sudden I
start to see the priorities.
So, you know, prioritizingwhat's important and then also
(55:56):
letting other things fall awayor maybe rescheduling them for
another time.
These are all ways to kind ofbreak down that feeling of being
overwhelmed with too manythings.
And I think another thing too isthat sometimes we take on too
much responsibility and we don'tallow ourselves to say no.
(56:18):
And that's okay to say no,reschedule it to the next week,
do something like that for ourmental health and wellness.
And also delegate.
That's the other thing that Ineed to think more about is that
I tend to be the one that'swanting to do it all.
But there are a lot of people,if you ask for help, they will
(56:40):
help you.
And people have the time and thecare to do that.
So if you're able to delegateany of your tasks.
Right.
There was one question that Iasked grandson and it was, how
do you have hope when you feelhopeless?
Which kind of brings me to thetopic of catastrophizing.
Yeah.
And it's a term that's used andthat could happen, you know, if
(57:04):
something bad happens.
For instance, instead of kind ofbeing rational about it, we can
kind of spiral down and itbecomes a catastrophe, right?
Let's talk a little bit aboutthat because that could happen
and that can really lead to somebad behavior or really bad
(57:24):
thoughts when we really need toput a stop to it.
SPEAKER_02 (57:29):
Well, catastrophizing is interesting
because it's sort of an all ornothing type of thinking in a
sense.
It's where something gets reallyhuge.
And people might kind of dismissthat as just being
over-exaggeration or you're justkind of going off the deep end
(57:51):
on something.
But our minds do these things.
SPEAKER_01 (57:55):
Right, right, right.
Tastrophizing is like going fromsomething that happened that was
bad, but getting to the pointwhere it's the worst thing that
could possibly happen.
And I have a good example ofthis.
I had a friend who...
was like the leader of a supportgroup here.
And he was doing this for years.
(58:17):
And he had this meeting roomthat was donated to him.
It was sort of like a little bitdark and dingy.
And it had free parking, but itwas kind of not in the greatest
part of town.
But one day, one of the supportgroup members got upset about
something, started complainingabout the group, started
complaining to the buildingmanager.
(58:37):
And what happened was my friend,ended up losing this office
space to conduct his meetings.
But he went to a hotel room byhimself and he started
catastrophizing.
He's like, this is what I'vebeen doing for years.
This is all I do.
This is my purpose in life.
What am I going to do now?
(58:58):
I'm letting down my group.
And that's the whole spiralingdown of making it a catastrophe.
And luckily, when we talked...
It's all about talking yourselfdown or maybe even calling a
friend or buddy to help talkyou...
SPEAKER_02 (59:16):
Talk you off the ledge, so to speak.
Exactly.
Talk you off the ledge.
That's in your toolkit.
You're going to call somebodywhen you start knowing your
brain is doing this to you.
SPEAKER_01 (59:28):
Right.
Or...
If you can't reach someone,you're going to have to talk
yourself off the ledge.
And that is difficult becauseyou have to get to that little
part of your brain thatrationally knows that your life
is not going to fall apart.
SPEAKER_02 (59:45):
Self-talk can do a lot.
Exactly.
(01:00:08):
Yeah, and challenge yourthoughts.
You know, that's kind of thebasis of a lot of cognitive
behavioral therapy is basicallylearning how to turn your
thoughts around.
And it does start with youbecause you may not be able to
call somebody at that moment,but you can look and examine
your thought process.
And you can tell yourself, waita minute, I'm not, we're not
(01:00:30):
buying that story.
Right?
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (01:00:33):
Yeah.
But it takes practice.
It takes practice, right?
To really stop yourself and tellyourself a different story.
But the thing that happened withmy friend, thankfully, is that
when he told the support groupwhat happened, another person
from the group stood up andsaid, you know what?
We have a building here in townthat we will donate to you.
(01:00:58):
And what happened is, sometimesOne door closes and another door
opens, and we do hear that everyso often.
But in this case, that's exactlywhat happened.
He got a beautiful meeting roomat a better part of town, this
clean, bright, professionalroom, and he was so much happier
(01:01:21):
with that.
So Sometimes when something bador it seems a little tragic that
happens, just give it some time.
Sometimes, you know, time iswhat you need, and it might just
be a few days to see what willbecome of it.
SPEAKER_02 (01:01:37):
Well, part of catastrophizing, too, is that
impulsive nature, you know, andwe want to just figure it out
and do something right thissecond.
UNKNOWN (01:01:45):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (01:01:46):
That isn't always the answer, like you just
pointed out, that we have tolearn to manage some of these
impulses and how we talk toourselves.
The course of how this unfoldsmay not be what your mind is
telling you.
And, you know, because wefortune tell, we try to think we
(01:02:06):
know what's going to be in thefuture and we just don't.
SPEAKER_01 (01:02:09):
One last thing I want to talk about is that
grandson sort of explained hisrelationship with Potts.
and CBD oil.
Cannabis has become legal inmany states, but I wanted to
focus on CBD oil because thathas some proven positive mental
effects.
CBD oil also is a cannabiswithout the THC, which is the
(01:02:33):
part that can make us high, butonly has the medicinal qualities
of cannabis.
Have you had experience withthat?
Yeah.
And how has that helped you?
SPEAKER_02 (01:02:46):
Well, I've had some experience with it.
I also have a pain issue.
I have fibromyalgia and lupus.
And, you know, I've used CBDfrom time to time, but I've used
the type that you massage intoyour muscles, you know, and
that's very helpful.
But now I just wanted to pointout real quickly that Not all
(01:03:09):
are created equal, because I doknow that they've done studies
where they have checked thelevels of CBD in different types
of products, and there wasreally not what was touted on
the label.
The problem with this wholething is it's really the Wild
West out there, because there isno FDA type of scheduling for
(01:03:31):
this as far as products go.
But there have been a lot ofstudies and thoughts that say
that it's able to help manageanxiety.
They think that it actually canpossibly help the brain
receptors respond to serotonin,which is a very important mental
health neurotransmitter in yourbrain.
They're finding so manywonderful things about this.
SPEAKER_01 (01:03:55):
And one thing I do need to say is that before you
start anything like this, you dowant to talk with your doctor.
Because everybody is differentas far as how they respond to
medication.
There are things that you needto know about it before you try
it.
Like you said, CBD could come ina cream, good for pain and
muscles and joints.
(01:04:16):
It could come in a tincture,where you can use drops
underneath your tongue, whichgives better absorption.
But I think in general, when youthink about CBD, you think about
it as having a calming effect.
So it can have a calming effecton anxiety.
It could have a calming effecton depression.
(01:04:37):
Like for me, I've used the creamfor my psoriasis.
And psoriasis, oh my gosh, I'vebeen battling that all my life.
And it is the thing that calmsit down better than some of the
prescription creams that I'vehad.
Right.
You know, I've had inflammationsof psoriasis and that causes
(01:04:59):
inflammation throughout my body.
SPEAKER_02 (01:05:01):
They're actually doing studies on it now for
inflammation in the brain thatis exasperating symptoms for
people with MS or with othercognitive issues, Alzheimer's
and et cetera, because it doeshave the ability to calm and
bring down inflammation.
So this is a wonder drug thatneeds so much more research.
(01:05:25):
We just really need to get onboard with getting this research
to the point to where we canactually help people.
SPEAKER_01 (01:05:32):
Right, right.
And we know how to use it andwhere it could be used.
Another way that I've used it iskind of in a gummy form, like an
edible, for sleep.
Sometimes I really have aproblem with sleep and it tends
to relax my mind when it startsto wind up.
So these are things that havehelped me personally and it
(01:05:56):
really has great emotional andphysical benefits.
SPEAKER_02 (01:05:59):
And just realize that CBD is much different than
the THC.
You know, THC commonly canreally wind people's minds up
and it can actually exacerbatemaybe other symptoms of mental
illness.
I think that that's somethingthat grandson was talking about
was that he would go back topot, but sometimes it would make
(01:06:21):
his mind kind of screwed otherways, you know?
SPEAKER_01 (01:06:24):
Right.
Yeah.
You know, one last thing Iwanted to say about CBD Thank
you so much.
(01:06:46):
And again, you want to make surethat you talk to a doctor about
this.
But I did have a friend who wason opioids and used cannabis to
withdraw from that.
And it was successful for him.
But it is something that wouldbe such a wonderful thing
because the opioid crisis reallyis still alive and thriving.
(01:07:09):
And whatever kind of solutionswe can find...
SPEAKER_02 (01:07:15):
Exactly.
There is a drug out therecalled, I think it's Stativix or
something like that.
And it's kind of a combinationof drug therapy, but it also
includes CBD in the drug.
And it's helped people with MS.
And so work with your doctors oryour therapists and really
(01:07:37):
explore where CBD might be areally useful tool for you.
It's fantastic.
It's another tool in yourtoolbox.
SPEAKER_01 (01:07:45):
Right, right.
And your addiction specialist.
They would also have someinformation for you.
Kat, thank you so much for beingon the Checkout Podcast.
I always love talking with you.
Thank you for having me.
A big thank you to Grandson, ourfeatured musical guest, and his
singer-songwriter, Kat Jensen.
For more information onGrandson, visit
(01:08:07):
GrandsonMusic.com.
And on social media, find him atGrandson and...
at Grandson Music and watch himlive on YouTube every Sunday at
12 p.m.
Pacific time for a series XXLive where Grandson talks about
music, politics, answersquestions from his grandkids,
and plays an acoustic track.
(01:08:29):
And be sure to stay tuned tohear a clip of Grandson's In
Over My Head.
So until next time, be brave,ask for help, and be persistent
in finding the mental healththat you need.
SPEAKER_00 (01:08:40):
At 15, I would look around and all my friends had it
figured out.
They all thought it, but theynever said out loud.
I was in over my head.
Oh, I feel this vertigo.
UNKNOWN (01:08:56):
Sick of being an optimist.
I'm trying.
I'm trying.
SPEAKER_00 (01:09:02):
But I'm in over my head.
I'm in over my head.
SPEAKER_01 (01:09:27):
Check Your Head Podcast is kindly supported by
DBSA San Gabriel Valley, LemonTree Studios, and Blue Oak
Mastering and Podcasting in LosAngeles.
Visit our website atcheckyourheadpodcast.com where
you'll find free and affordableresources for mental health and
where you can also support us bydonating or subscribing to our
Patreon page.
(01:09:49):
Thank you so much for liking andfollowing us on Facebook and
Instagram atcheckyourheadpodcast.
And the Check Your Head podcastis sponsored by a 501c3
nonprofit, so all donations aretax deductible.
Thank you so much for listeningand for your support.
Welcome to the Check Your Head podcast, a podcast
where notable musicians andexperts come and share their
stories and solutions for mentalhealth and wellness.
I'm your host, Mari Fong, amusic journalist and life coach
for musicians, and today I'mexcited to have an up-and-coming
musical artist, Jordan Benjamin,also known as Grandson, on the
(00:24):
Check Your Head podcast.
Granson's debut album, Death ofan Optimist, dropped in December
of 2020, and when I first sawGranson's music video for his
single, Dirty, it was definitelya wow moment.
This song was a mixture of rock,electronic, a bit of hip-hop,
with melodies I could sing anddance to.
(00:44):
And then when I heard Granson'sentire album, not only did the
songs blow me away, but But thelyrics jumped out at me as well,
because Granson is not only amusician, but he's also an
activist, singing about socialjustice, bringing life to topics
like mental health and guncontrol, all with the hopes for
positive change.
(01:06):
So when Granson's single Dirtyrose to the top 10 on
Billboard's Alternative Rockcharts this month, I wasn't
surprised.
And I can't wait to see his liveshow, because if his live show
is anything like his musicvideos, I know Granson's show
will definitely go off.
So for our interview, Grandsonshares his story of mood
disorders and what he does tosoothe his soul and tame his
(01:28):
sometimes impulsive behaviorsand emotions.
He also talks about his charity,XX Resistance Fund, and how his
fans, that he calls hisgrandkids, can also participate
in positive societal change.
After that, Kat Jensen and Iwill talk about Grandson's
interview, focusing on what todo when we feel overwhelmed with
(01:48):
life and what it means tocatastrophize, and the uses and
benefits of CBD oil for mooddisorders and more.
And we'll end the episode with aclip of one of my favorite
grandson songs off the new albumcalled In Over My Head.
So let's start by hearing JordanBenjamin, a.k.a.
Grandson, share his story.
(02:09):
Today we have Jordan Benjamin,who is Grandson.
That's me.
with your music, with yourvideos, and especially with your
debut album, Death of anOptimist.
(02:30):
It's really a great example ofthat.
You talk about so many differentissues, some of them being
political, some of them beingjust human issues like mental
health and drug addiction.
But I wanted to start offbecause we are in the middle of
(02:51):
this pandemic, and you're albumis so current about what's
happening today which is anotherthing that I love about it but
with the chaos of 2020 and thelockdown how has your mental
health been during this time
SPEAKER_00 (03:08):
you know it's uh it's really hard I pride myself
on being pretty pragmatic I Ioften associate my mental health
with a sense of productivity.
If I feel that I'm beingproductive, I feel better.
It feels like a better day.
(03:28):
And it's hard sometimes to feelproductive when you really don't
know what part of the pandemicyou're in, when it's tough to
decide how much should I bebuilding towards finding
sustainable routine within thepandemic or continue to treat
(03:53):
this like it is this weirdpurgatory that we're merely
passing through and be putting aton of my emotional investment
into getting out to the otherside of this pandemic.
You know, if somebody came to meand told me, look, you got a
hundred days, you got a hundreddays, you got to sit inside, you
got to wear a mask and thenyou're out.
I would be springing intoaction.
(04:15):
This is what I'm going to do formy 100 days, especially now with
the expectation of thisconstantly available presence on
social media.
Here's my 100-day vlog.
Let me just keep working,working, working towards this
countdown.
But the uncertainty of thepandemic definitely makes
(04:38):
staying on top of your mentalhealth hard.
So it's a long answer, but it'sa complicated question.
I think I, like a lot of people,just go through waves of feeling
on top of it and then days whereit's really, really hard to
envision the other side of it.
But as I'm sure will come upthroughout this conversation, I
apply that pragmatism and thatsense of productivity to my
(05:03):
mental health, I'm prettydisciplined about putting
together a regimen of thingsthat are going to make me feel a
little bit better.
And usually when I'm goingthrough a low patch or like a
manic episode, I can usuallytrace back.
There's something in my toolkitthat is being neglected, whether
(05:26):
that's nature, whether that'swriting in my journal.
There's things that I do for mymental health.
And so I just lean on my toolkitreally hard in this time.
And when I stay on top of it,I'm feeling good.
And then other days it's alluphill.
SPEAKER_01 (05:42):
Yeah, I totally agree.
I mean, one thing that you saidthat is really key is
uncertainty.
There's been a lot of that in2020, a lot of ups and downs.
But, you know, I tapped intosomething that you said, which
is manic.
And oftentimes when peoplesometimes when people refer to
manic periods and depressiveperiods, it could be like a sign
(06:06):
of, you know, maybe bipolar orit could just be, you know, like
way ebbs and waves and tides.
of emotion.
How would you describe that foryourself?
SPEAKER_00 (06:17):
You know, I don't think anybody could be faulted
for feeling up and down in thistime.
It's certainly hard to untanglewhat is a product of this
complicated time we're living inand then what is something
that's inherent within you.
I come from a family wherebipolar disorder and personality
(06:39):
disorder is There is examples ofthat within my family, within my
extended family, cousins, and onmy father's side.
It's something that has neverbeen diagnosed.
When I was a kid, we did a testfor having ADD and a mild
(07:01):
bipolar disorder.
A lot of the questionnaire, thebells went off, but Mostly, I
was doing those tests to justget out of a course that I
needed to drop so that my GPAwouldn't plummet when I was in
college.
I never really took it thatseriously until later on in my
life when I was able to be morehonest about my relationship to
(07:23):
smoking pot and the things thatI had built up as coping
mechanisms.
And it was certainly no hardshipof mine to wake up and be high
before even 9, 10 in themorning.
But it was much more complicatedwhen I was trying to really get
to the bottom of what is it.
It's like sometimes you gothrough the motions.
(07:45):
I'm watching myself put on myshoes.
I'm watching myself get running.
And I don't even know what I'mrunning to or running from.
It's easy to get caught in thosecycles.
And my 20s have really beendefined by getting to– know
myself a bit better.
And it's really a uniqueopportunity.
Being a musician, being on tour,having experienced a little bit
(08:07):
of success, thankfully, in mydesired field, it's an
incredibly enabling environment.
And it gives me a playgroundwith which to really navigate
these different sides of mypersonality, my ego.
So there are parts of the upsand downs that I navigate that
(08:29):
are in my nature and other partsthat have been nurtured in over
the last year and over my
SPEAKER_01 (08:38):
lifetime.
I've gone through my own ups anddowns and struggles.
And I do think that mentalhealth is a journey.
It's like we start to learn moreabout ourselves and ourselves.
as time goes on.
And I'm glad you brought upfamily history because
oftentimes things like ADHD orbipolar or depression are passed
(09:01):
down through families.
And it gives us more insight onwhat we could do with ourselves
and with our future.
I mean, how have you been ableto kind of deal with those
things?
I mean, a lot of people havedifferent kinds of solutions.
I mean, what has worked for you?
SPEAKER_00 (09:19):
Yeah, I feel very, very lucky that I come from a
family and I'm living in a timewhere these things aren't met
with the ridicule or with theskepticism that they have
traditionally been met with,especially in men and
traditional views onmasculinity.
(09:41):
I didn't really grow up with aton of that.
As early as 13, 14 years old, myparents were were sitting me
down and trying to help meunderstand my aggressive
tendencies or my impulses to actout.
And very early on, around thattime in high school, I was
(10:01):
getting into just kind of likejuvenile problems of just acting
out in class, I got caughtshoplifting one time, you know,
with the money to buy this thingin my pocket, you know, I just
walked out with it and gotcaught and it was a really
important opportunity for me toreally reflect on, well, what
was it that I was trying tocommunicate to people?
(10:21):
And very early on, my parentsintroduced writing to me.
I had naturally leaned towardscreative writing my whole life,
but the practice of journaling,finding the language with which
you talk to yourself, seeingyour thoughts reflected back at
you on the page, it's verysobering.
(10:44):
I would write in these almostdrunk, very impulsive, with a
lot of hyperbole andself-deprecation.
I would read it later and havethis primary source footage that
became increasingly valuable tome as I would reflect back on
these times in my life that werereally up and down.
(11:09):
Journaling was something that Ipicked up at an early age.
Smoking pot was something that Ihave been doing since I was like
12, 13 years old and has been attimes helpful and at times a
detriment to my mental health.
That one's a complicated onethat I don't actually think is a
one size fit all.
I don't think people should bespending their life in prison
(11:29):
over it, but I do think that itcan exacerbate certain
predispositions people mighthave towards things like mania,
bipolar disorder, schizophrenia.
So For me, it was findingcreativity, finding these
outlets, and then spending alittle bit of time in quiet.
It's easy.
I've been a city kid my wholelife.
(11:50):
I grew up right by the traintracks and always lived in
cities my whole life.
It was only when my oldersisters started introducing me
to nature.
Not just going for a walk aroundthe block, but getting out for a
couple days, doing some camping.
I know that that nature can bekind of inaccessible,
(12:12):
particularly for people ofcolor.
It's very much dominated bywhite males.
But I really do find getting outinto national parks, getting to
sit with your thoughts, spendsome time in silence, that
really helped.
And then over the past year,finally, being able to sit still
and meditate.
(12:32):
And I've been using Headspacefor a year.
It was excruciating at first toanybody listening who...
who goes, oh, no, that's not me.
I couldn't do that.
I could not sit still for asecond and spent most of the
first couple sessions justwaiting for him to tell me I
could finally get up and go.
Slowly but surely, if you sitthere long enough in timeout,
(12:54):
you can maybe get a little bitof silence.
That's been how I've beenstarting my days.
I think like a lot of things,you can develop the world's best
game plan And then wake up oneday and none of this shit is
working, you know, and then yougot to just refocus or sometimes
the best thing I can do for myday is stop trying to fix it and
(13:15):
just embrace feeling like shitthat day or whatever it is.
And, you know, cancel your plansand sit there and feel sorry for
yourself.
Sometimes that is what you need.
And I think that we operateright now.
There is this desire for instantgratification that I have to
battle because it is such ajourney, as you were saying, you
know, mental health.
You're stuck with yourself.
(13:37):
You're going to bed with thisforever.
So you better learn how to makepeace with it.
SPEAKER_01 (13:44):
Yeah, I think that's the thing is that we can't
escape it because it's in ourhead.
And sometimes we try to figureout what is actually going on.
And sometimes our thoughts orour behaviors can frighten even
ourselves, right?
We're trying to understand itourselves.
First of all, I applaud you fordoing the meditation because you
(14:05):
just described having some ADHDtendencies, which already is
tough to sit still sometimes.
But what did you get frommeditation?
What is it that you receivedfrom that?
SPEAKER_00 (14:20):
Well, I think that...
Number one, particularly when Ido it at the beginning of the
day, doing guided meditationshelps me a lot as far as
intention setting and beingdeliberate with my time,
recognizing how much time Ispend anxious about the future,
anxious about the past, thinkingof past relationships, things I
(14:43):
went through I would have donedifferently, those arguments you
have with yourself in the showeror something or right before
bed.
I spent a lot of time and spenda lot of time living either in
the past or the future.
And when you recognize just howephemeral this present moment is
and that it's just constantlyliving and dying and looking at
(15:05):
old pictures of yourself,looking at old relationships
that felt so real andconsequential at the time that
now it's just water under thebridge.
With that, with me, I thinkcomes a little more humility,
and I can be a little easier onmyself and others.
One thing that Headspace reallyhelped me with, and I'm not
(15:27):
sponsored by them or anything,by the way.
I'm not getting any money forthis.
I'll take it, but honestly, no,this has just really been
something that helps.
They also helped me frame...
your practice of thoughtfulness,setting your intentions, being
grounded, not just for your ownpersonal benefits, but think
critically about how your mentalhealth is affecting your
(15:50):
relationships.
And if not for you, reflect onhow being a little more patient,
being a little more grounded,being a little more grateful,
how those things can impact theday of the people that you're
spending your time with, whetherthat's your partner, your
family, your roommates, whateverthat may be.
(16:12):
And, uh, typically for me,that's accompanied with this
sense, like this feeling that Ican really fuck it up, that I
have a ton of consequence, thatmy actions can really, um,
impact other people.
And, and in the times where I amreminded of my, of how small I
am and that maybe the worldisn't revolving around me,
that's actually comes with acertain deal of, uh, a relief
(16:36):
for me personally.
So that's, that's how it affectsme.
And I know other people it'sdifferent.
And again, most days I sit thereand, and maybe I get 30 seconds
of stillness in a 10 minutepractice.
Still, even just sitting there,it helps a lot.
I, my, my mother, And I sufferfrom– I have a hard time
sleeping.
I'm a super light sleeper, andit's really hard for me to fall
(16:59):
asleep some nights.
And I remember being a kid andthe anxiety.
I would be doing the math in myhead.
Well, if I go to bed now, I'llget six hours of sleep.
Oh, God, I'm supposed to geteight.
I'm going to be so upsettomorrow.
Oh, if only I could go to sleep.
Look, now it's five and a halfhours.
Oh, and my body would tense up,and I would be so anxious about–
(17:22):
living that next day.
I remember as a kid, it'ssomething that stuck with me.
One day, I just recognized, youknow what?
I'm going to be tired tomorrow.
I'll probably get a nap in ornot, but it's certainly not
doing me any good sitting hereall anxious about it.
My mind is clearly racing.
What do you want to talk about?
What are you thinking about?
(17:42):
I started thinking about mymusic and production, things
that were keeping me up,relationships in my life that
were giving me a hard time.
In accepting your nature and inaccepting that desire to spin
your wheels sometimes, you canactually get certain revelations
that can be quite helpful.
And in meditation, in sittingstill, I'm forced to confront
(18:07):
some of those things that arekeeping me up at night.
SPEAKER_01 (18:11):
Yeah.
Thank you so much for that.
You know, sometimes thatacceptance does calm your mind.
And that app, Headspace, isactually on our website, which
is techaheadpodcast.com, becausewe have apps and telehealth and
all kinds of things that you canuse, you know, as part of
(18:31):
solutions.
You know, in 2017, we lost threemusicians to suicide.
Chris Cornell of Soundgarden,Chester Bennington of Lincoln
Park, and EDM DJ Avicii.
And the thing is with yourmusic, you know, you have rock,
you have electronic, you havehip-hop in there, and I'm sure
(18:52):
like these artists, when youheard the news, I mean, what
kind of reaction do you rememberhaving after hearing that news?
SPEAKER_00 (19:01):
Oh, man.
Yeah, like anybody, like...
Obviously, Chris Cornell,Chester, super, super
influential on me.
And I remember even celebritydeaths like Robin Williams, even
Kobe Bryant, where it wasn'tnecessarily deliberate, but yet
(19:22):
there felt like there was thisgreat cosmic unfairness.
It really destabilizes yoursense of...
Our relationship to findingpurpose in life and the good guy
wins and the bad guy gets hiscomeuppance, those things are so
fragile.
(19:43):
And when that social contractfeels violated, when somebody
who you think has it all makesthat ultimate– gesture,
statement about their life ortheir mental health, it is
really hard to reconcile.
And you're wondering, well, thenwhat am I doing?
What am I working so hard for?
(20:03):
I think like a lot of people, itwas just one of those kind of
nauseous moments to just stopand reflect.
And it sucks.
I've been fortunate enough to bewelcomed into the both through
my collaborations with Chester'sbandmate Mike Shinoda for the
(20:25):
20th anniversary of their albumHybrid Theory.
I put out a cover that LinkinPark reposted.
I've had a ton of love from theLinkin Park community.
We're talking about a millionstrong people still reeling.
I don't know where they were inthat moment for Chester, but for
(20:46):
anybody that struggles withthose fantasies or or thinks
about, um, committing suicide,you know, it's just, you leave
behind a hole that people spendtheir whole life unable to fill.
Just looking at how many peopleshave been, have just been, you
know, wrecked by and trying tomake sense of a thing that is
(21:06):
inherently, um, impossible tomake sense of.
It's, uh, It's tough, and Ireally feel for anybody who's
been affected, for sure, whetherit's a friend or in these
celebrity relationships, we feellike we know these people, these
parasocial relationships wedevelop with our favorite
celebrities, and when somethingbad happens to them, you feel
(21:26):
like you've lost a friend.
SPEAKER_01 (21:29):
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
In fact, this is the reason whyI started the TechHead podcast,
was because of those deathsthat...
These musicians brought me somuch joy.
You know, how can they leavethis life in so much pain?
And the other thing, you know,you mentioned, you know, about
ADHD is that sometimes it'sreactive and sometimes it could
(21:52):
have depression components.
And so if you can imagine beingin a depression and then also
having that reactive componentto maybe something that happened
to you and you act on it.
Yeah, yeah, and I think we havea...
SPEAKER_00 (22:23):
a particular fascination with celebrities who
are gone too soon.
We often die-ify them, weglorify them, and we give them
the flowers that we didn't givethem when we were alive.
I think for a lot of people,there's something strangely
attractive about that.
There are times where, in thepast, I've fantasized about how
(22:50):
my If I were to do somethinglike that, how would I be viewed
in this community?
Would the impact I make besomehow greater if I were to
leave at the height of my careerinstead of living too long?
But those fantasies are reallyimportant to make sense of and
(23:10):
to voice out loud and bereminded that You can do
anything in this world.
You just can't do nothing.
I like reminding fans of thatwhen people bring up their
mental health.
There is nothing in this worldthat is irreversible.
If you are in an environment, ina household, in a community
where you don't feel accepted,your people are out there.
(23:33):
It is a big world, and there isa whole lot of love waiting for
you.
But certain things you can'tundo, and it's important to make
sense of that and be vocal aboutit.
And, you know, I've been veryfortunate to work with a
therapist for basically eversince my career began.
And I understand and recognizethat that's a privilege many
(23:55):
either can't or don'tprioritize.
And making sense with thosethings, speaking them out loud
and feeling understood in thosemoments, that really helped.
SPEAKER_01 (24:09):
Is there a certain kind of therapy that you use?
And also, what are the benefitsfor you as far as therapy goes?
SPEAKER_00 (24:17):
Sure.
I work with a psychotherapist.
We spend a lot of time tracingpatterns, exploring subconscious
impulses.
Sometimes we talk about dreams.
Sometimes we talk aboutchildhood.
And of the benefits, I'm a bigsports fan.
The easiest way I can explain itis if you are an athlete, you
(24:44):
spend time watching film.
You replay the events andscenarios so that when you go
play again and you catchyourself in those moments, you
can reflect on the work that youdid to recognize, okay, in this
scenario, this is the rightplay.
And In doing therapy, I'm ableto study the game film of my
(25:08):
emotional impulses.
When my sense of abandonment istriggered, this is how I
respond.
When people start getting closeto me, when I feel threatened,
this is the typical ways that mysubconscious will act out.
Then as I would find myselfgoing throughout the motions, of
(25:29):
daily life and I catch myself inthose familiar positions, I'm
much more acutely aware that I'min one of those scenarios and
where this typically heads forme.
So it was a really importantintervention for me as far as
rethinking my behavior andwatching when I am low, when I
(25:49):
am manic.
I find myself back in thesetoxic relationships that are no
good for me.
I find myself leaning on copingmechanisms that often might
provide short-term benefits, butthere will be this big crash a
couple days later.
Therapy just really helped me byholding a big mirror up.
And I think the first day Ithought that he was going to
(26:10):
have this brilliant insight andI would have this goodwill
hunting kind of catharticmoment.
And a lot of the time,unfortunately, that's not really
how real life works.
It's a lot less glamorous.
Some days I would go in andleave wondering like, what was
that?
What did I even pay that guyfor?
What was this?
But sure enough, it reallyhelped me navigate a very
(26:31):
turbulent time in my life,especially taking therapy
sessions on the phone.
pacing around a Walmart parkinglot when you're on a day off in
the middle of a two-month tour,it really helped me kind of hold
on to something and haveaccountability as it relates to
my behavior.
SPEAKER_01 (26:49):
Well, you know, you spoke about, you said word
intervention, and you alsotalked about, you know, the
depths that kind of brought youinto therapy.
Can you describe like anincidence or an event that you
could think of that really, youknow, was a low point?
in your life that really said,you know, I need to get some
help?
SPEAKER_00 (27:10):
While I'm sure I could think of a couple, I
probably don't even remembermost of them at this point
because I probably was only semieven there a lot of the times,
whether it was, you know, likegetting blackout drunk and doing
something dumb and Waking up andhaving to retrace in this
embarrassing way, apologize topeople that you had acted out
(27:32):
with.
For me, it was really more ofjust this steady progression,
this feeling of being up to yourneck and feeling overwhelmed.
you know, moving out to LosAngeles, not having family,
immediate family here, nothaving those anchor points with
(27:53):
which somebody can kind of shakeyou up and going, you're going
through something right now.
My decision to go to therapy wasbecause I didn't want to find
myself in those moments.
Like I didn't want to wake up ornot wake up because I acted out
in this impulsive way.
So it didn't take...
I didn't have one of thosemoments.
(28:15):
And I hope that people don'twait until they have to have one
of those intervention points.
For me, it was just recognizing.
It just felt like there was thehighs and lows didn't have to be
quite so polarizing.
You can be the one with yourhands on the steering wheel.
Sometimes I would feel like Iwas on autopilot.
(28:38):
acting out because I was unableto recognize where and how my
impulses in the present momentcould be explained through
retracing my behavior in thepast.
It was as easy as the decisionto get a personal trainer or
something.
(28:58):
It doesn't always need to bestepping on the scale and having
the number.
Sometimes you just want to bebetter.
That was what it was for mepersonally.
SPEAKER_01 (29:07):
Well, it sounds like you have a lot of self-awareness
and also a lot of experience,you know, trying things and
maybe having it work out in anunexpected way and really
looking for guidance.
You know, as you were talking,it reminded me of your song
Riptide, which you did with MikeShinoda.
And it touches on battling badhabits and references to drug
(29:31):
addiction.
And we talked a little bit aboutpot, you know, and now that
Cannabis is legal in a lot ofstates.
What were the pros and the consfor you with using pot?
SPEAKER_00 (29:45):
Yeah, oh my gosh.
This is something that I'mreally passionate about because
I've been getting high my wholelife practically.
And I've had a lot of friendswho have gone through really,
really hard times where pot wasa part of that and it didn't
help.
Particularly, I would say someof my low points included when I
was about 17, 18 years old, Iwas dealing with pretty bad acne
(30:07):
and I was, uh, prescribedAccutane or one of these, uh,
you know, uh, anti back.
Right.
Yeah.
And I don't think it was kind ofgloss.
I was probably only half payingattention.
I was just ready to get thesepimples off my face so I could
get laid.
Uh, and I really wasn't payingattention when it, when they
were telling you not to drink,not to smoke pot.
(30:30):
And, uh, At the time, this was astory that was true for a lot of
kids my age, where itcontributed to these feelings of
manic, depression.
I had one of my closest friendswhen I was around 16, 17 years
old.
He started smoking a lot of weedand would start behaving
(30:54):
increasingly erratically.
I remember one time I wasstudying for an exam when I was
in college in Montreal and I gota call from the police saying he
had gone missing.
They couldn't find him.
They found him trying tohitchhike and he couldn't
explain what he was doing there.
You see these commercials now.
(31:17):
It's so much more widelyaccepted now.
And for me, pot stimulates mycuriosity.
It enables me to sit with aguitar, sit with production
software.
I can sit for hours in ways thatotherwise my attention wanders
or I can get more down onmyself.
(31:38):
It really opens up a certaincuriosity for me creatively that
I really enjoy.
And I can get giggly and all thegood things that come with it.
But for me, it was very, very...
hard to find any sort ofmoderation with it.
It was kind of like either I wastaking a really hard line stance
(31:59):
of sobriety and then I wouldmiss it, I would have a really
good time getting high, andthen...
I wake up and I've got an itchto get high.
I'm just trying to make it untilthe sun goes down so I can
rationalize it.
But then I'm finding new excusesand all of a sudden I'm getting
high a couple times a day.
(32:20):
And those things aren'tinherently bad for me, but it's
the accumulation.
For me...
It would take about four or fivedays of being stoned, and I
would just wake up and just feellousy, like grumpy and down on
myself and irritated.
(32:40):
Because when you're gettinghigh, whether it's smoking pot
or something that's a littleheavier, you're trading
tomorrow.
You're trading tomorrow for thatpresent moment.
You're tapping into resources inyour brain, whether it's
dopamine or serotonin.
You're taking them at theexpense of how they would
(33:02):
normally be distributed, and youjust wake up just feeling
miserable.
My relationship to MDMA is verysimilar to my relationship to
psychedelics.
Those things are positives in mylife.
I would not be honest to sithere and tell you that those
were bad things.
They really helped turn my lifearound and open up all kinds of
(33:24):
new neural pathways.
Doing acid when I was a kid, itwas just– I can't even describe.
I left it a different personthan I was going into it.
I don't think that that's a badthing.
But man, those next days arelow.
They're really tough and– Ittook me a long time to finally
(33:44):
recognize.
I don't know if it's alwaysworth dealing with that
comedown.
That was what led me to takingbreaks from these things.
Now, I try and feel it out, butagain, with a little more
accountability, a little moreself-awareness, and when I catch
myself doing thosejustifications in my head,
looking for an excuse, that'swhen I know that I'm probably
(34:08):
better off putting it down.
The last thing I'll say as itrelates to pot, I found CBD to
be a really effective tool forme where I was still able to
scratch that itch, but withoutthe psychoactive properties,
without the impulsivity withoutquite as much as a hangover the
next day.
So to anybody that is trying tofind some alternative, because
(34:32):
there really isn't a good one, Idid find smoking CBD.
It helped, at least.
But yeah, that's been as earlyas 12 years old.
SPEAKER_01 (34:42):
Yeah, I mean, CBD, of course, has a calming effect,
and pot could have the samething, and CBD can also be used
for pain.
I'm glad you talked about itbecause a lot of musicians, not
only are you in an industrywhere it can be everywhere and
sometimes more accepted than,let's say, going to a therapist
(35:04):
or taking medication.
Has that ever been...
Something that you've tried?
I mean, as far as a prescriptionmedication?
I
SPEAKER_00 (35:14):
mean, recreationally once or twice, but never
something that was prescribed tocombat these negative emotions.
But I have people in my lifethat have taken anti-anxiety
medication, antidepressants, andit has been really productive.
It has worked really well forcertain people.
(35:34):
For other people, it doesn't.
Big thing I think is just notlosing your imagination and your
ability to dream of a betterversion of yourself.
I think that none of thesethings are going to work.
Don't inherently believe thatthey will or if you don't
believe that you're worthy ofanother version of yourself.
(35:55):
For me, taking care of myselfwas as simple as recognizing
that there just has to be abetter version more calm
equilibrium for me to meet.
And until I was ready for that,then there was nothing that...
Then I was just going throughthe motions of self-help.
Then I was just going throughthe motions of taking care of
(36:15):
myself.
So I think you have to really,when looking at familiar habits
or relationships that aren'tproductive...
if you're not willing to auditand re-examine these different
factors that are contributingand, and isolate some variables
in your life, then, then you'rejust not ready to get better
yet.
(36:36):
And, uh, that's okay.
You know, don't rush, don'trush.
It's a, it's a lifelong journey,but, but being honest with that
is going to save yourself andthe people around you.
Just, just so much grief.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (36:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, it, it takes, uh, notonly self-awareness, but also a
lot of experience to kind offigure out what works for you.
And, you know, one of the, Iguess, things that I say with
the podcast is, you know, bebrave, ask for help and be
persistent in finding the mentalhealth that you need.
Persistence really is more likeFinding what works for you
(37:14):
because there are solutions outthere, but it's just trying to
figure out what is going to workfor your lifestyle, what is
going to work for yourpersonality and your brain
chemistry and all of that goodstuff.
SPEAKER_00 (37:26):
It's going to suck sometimes.
I think we do our best to paintit as it is a beautiful step in
your life, I think, when you dodecide to be the one making
these choices and find acommunity, find a routine that
helps you.
Some days it is way less funthan treating your body like
shit.
(37:46):
I understand that.
I'm not going to be here withany righteousness or anything.
And I know that that's not thepoint here.
But for anybody who feels likeexcluded because it is
challenging, it gets no easier,you know.
I remember I was watching somebodybuilder or somebody was
(38:10):
talking on YouTube and they weresaying that the weights don't
get any lighter.
A 20-pound weight is stillheavy, still 20 pounds for
everybody, but Ideally, you havethose days where you're like,
wow, I'm on top of my shit rightnow.
I would have acted out there,and I'm not going to.
Oh, good.
(38:32):
I had a really creative,productive day, and I didn't get
high.
I guess I don't need to be high.
This narrative I've told myselfthat I can't write unless, or
that I won't find love unlessI'm in this relationship that
comes with all this other shit,this baggage, and these fights.
Yeah.
wow, you have to give it achance to do its work, its
(38:54):
magic.
But then ideally those momentsoutweigh the excruciating nature
of long-term self-help.
A lot of times it sucks.
SPEAKER_01 (39:03):
Well, you know what I find really interesting as I
listen to you is that when youtalk, you talk about a lot of, I
guess, almost a struggle withinyourself.
Sometimes between hope andhopelessness and, you know, Good
and bad habits.
And I find that also in yourmusic.
(39:24):
And you have this thing with theX that is sort of represents to
me that maybe the bad side.
And, you know, you who kind ofrepresents you trying to be a
better person.
And you have this song in overmy head, which I love.
I love the beats to it andeverything.
And it's about kind of like thepessimism of life when it
(39:46):
overwhelms you.
So when you look, I guess, inyour past, I mean, how do you
hang on to hope when things seemso hopeless?
SPEAKER_00 (39:55):
Oh, my gosh.
Isn't that the question of 2020and going into 2021?
And I think for me, I can getvery scared by my own nihilistic
thoughts.
It's kind of I just hit thesemoments of if you don't got
hope, what do you got?
You know, you're not wrong to bediscouraged or to be cynical.
(40:17):
But for me, sometimes the bestthing I can do is stop looking
to change the world and startlooking to change someone's
world.
Just in my agency to not carrythe burden of life to the front
(40:38):
door of every relationship thatI'm in, thinking critically
about when and how I use socialmedia.
Am I using it to bring people upor am I going to be triggering
their anxieties?
Those sorts of things reallyhelp give me a sense of purpose.
(41:00):
I think we as musicians, I'msure you could speak more to
this, but one thing that Inavigated in therapy is I really
do believe in the powers ofmanifestation.
I'm not a spiritual person.
I believe manifesting is lessabout some spirit waving a wand.
It's more about the socialinteractions.
(41:22):
People don't want to get in theway of somebody who is really
driven and on their way to doinggreat things.
Typically, in deciding and inbeing really persistent, a lot
of people want to help somebodyout like that.
And I think that that plays intomy manifestation.
There have been times where Iwas in college, selling pot,
stoned all day, dropping out ofschool.
(41:44):
And I really decided I was goingto build this life.
I'm going to move to LosAngeles.
I'm going to write some songs,this and that.
And now I'm sitting there withmy gold record on my wall and
feeling all good about myself.
And, uh, Sometimes thatmanifestation hits these brick
walls where sometimes you're notthe one in control.
(42:06):
And this pandemic is a really,really good example of that.
I can't manifest my way out ofthis one because it's not about
what I can control.
Sometimes that sense ofhopelessness or feeling
overwhelmed is just a matter ofhaving to accept that the world
(42:27):
doesn't revolve around us andour actions and our impulses.
That's a really hard thing toreconcile with this personality
type.
It's been such an effectivemotivating tool for me.
It fuels my ambition.
It gives me a reason to wake upevery day and get after it and
be grateful.
All those words aroundproductivity, those are the
(42:49):
things that keep me movingthroughout the day.
I wake up today, oh, I've gotthis podcast interview.
How can I be the best guest Ican be?
How can I be the most thoughtfulwith these answers?
When I have to confront the lossof a loved one, when you have to
confront a pandemic,senselessness, it's really hard.
(43:11):
And it's supposed to be.
We don't have all the answers.
So for me, it is just trying tofocus on what I can control,
accept that which I can't.
And if I do that, then I canhelp make it a little bit easier
for somebody else And in doingthat, I have changed the world.
(43:32):
I have contributed to an overallbetter planet.
I want to leave the world abetter place than I found it.
I want to take my little sliverof the world with my
relationships, my neighborhood.
What can I do within this thingto be proud of myself and to
feel like I was here forsomething positive and get back
(43:54):
to my mental health toolkit?
And then you wake up the nextday and you just feel a bit
better.
SPEAKER_01 (43:58):
If you could just name those things in your mental
health toolkit, I'm reallycurious.
SPEAKER_00 (44:06):
I mean, you've already talked
SPEAKER_01 (44:07):
about some things.
You've talked about counseling.
You've talked about therapy andpot and so forth.
SPEAKER_00 (44:14):
So for me, it's like writing is a big one.
Obviously, as a songwriter, itcan't be that much of a surprise
for people.
But making things, creatingsomething.
I woke up that day withoutanything.
I sat with my guitar and wow,just like that.
That feels like the opposite ofdying to me.
creating something, makingsomething.
(44:36):
I really feel better when I'mdoing that.
That's what I'm here to do.
I also find working out andphysical exercise is a good
manifestation of that sense ofagency.
Taking care of your body,working against what comes with
a sedentary lifestyle.
(44:57):
If I sit around eating like Junkfood all fucking day.
I'm not going to feel very good.
So when's the last time I gotlike a good visceral sweat in?
When I couldn't even talkbecause I was so out of breath.
Those moments when I'm gaspingfor air, I'm bringing life back
in.
Those things, I'm just trickingmy brain chemistry into start
(45:17):
and feeling good.
Finding nature, you know, inCalifornia, that's easier than
some other places.
But going for hikes, goingcamping, those sorts of things
really helped me.
Spending time away from myphone.
It's really hard and onlygetting harder, but...
It's like an
SPEAKER_01 (45:33):
addiction.
Oh
SPEAKER_00 (45:35):
my gosh, yeah.
And then I go through, oh, whatif somebody needs me and I'm not
there?
What if they call and I don'tpick up?
And sometimes it's just, youknow, that might just be the
case.
You'll figure it out.
You're not going to throw itaway.
You're going to be back in 30minutes.
But even just putting my phoneaway and being unreachable for a
second, there is this like,oh...
(45:58):
I forgot that this little partof myself was checking 80 times
a day if I got thatnotification.
Those things all help.
Sometimes with my therapist, wehave regular scheduled calls,
whether it's every week or everytwo weeks.
I'm in a period right now wherewe're just catching up if and
(46:19):
when I feel that urge, thatneed.
After two years of workingtogether, we feel a bit more
comfortable having that space.
But typically that is a part ofit, asking myself, when's the
last time I had theseconversations with people that I
know make me feel better,whether it's a therapist or a
family member or a best friend.
(46:40):
And again, I can come on herelike I have it all figured out.
Just maybe two days ago, I feltlike garbage.
All of that, a lifetime of workamounted to me waking up and
still being super irritable,Completely not in the mood to do
anything.
What's the point of doing any ofthis?
(47:01):
When is this pandemic going tobe over?
You know, all of that.
And just having these kinds ofconversations, I feel better
already.
SPEAKER_01 (47:09):
Well, I'm glad you feel better.
(47:39):
people around us, especiallynow, to tell us that.
And so sometimes it's good totell ourselves and recognize all
the good that we've been doing,even amidst all of the mess that
happens with our lives.
SPEAKER_00 (47:54):
Well, we have no problem beating ourselves up for
the little failures.
But for some reason, the littlewins along the way, it feels so
like uncomfortable sometimes togive yourself that credit to big
yourself, big yourself up personlistening to this right now.
Like sometimes when me and mygirlfriend wake up and before
(48:16):
we've checked our phones oranything, we do three things
that we're grateful for thatday, whether it's, you know,
like I'm going to call my momtoday and I'm just so grateful
that she'll pick up when I calland that she's there for me or
like, When you cooked me thatdinner last night, that was so
good.
I appreciate that.
Just give yourself the fuckinglittle wins because that's life.
This is it.
(48:37):
It is the accumulation of theselittle moments that we were so
busy waiting for the next thingfor that we weren't even present
for.
This is the product of yourlife.
And if you spend those littlein-between times on autopilot
anxious or upset, then that willbe...
what your life amounted to.
And so I don't want to do that.
I want to win.
(48:58):
I want to feel good right here,right now.
And I want to trust that thatwon't come at the expense of
that later thing.
You'll figure it out down theroad.
You don't need to spend yourtime in the present.
So anxious about what's coming.
You're allowed to actually, youcan give yourself permission at
any point.
And now is as good a point asany other point in your life to
(49:20):
give yourself that permission toPause this video right now.
We're not going anywhere.
Just pause it and just giveyourself a little pat on the
back and reflect on if you'restill here, you made it this
far.
We'll wait.
We'll wait.
We're going to give you threeseconds.
Okay, we're back.
That felt good, right?
Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (49:36):
It did.
It did.
I have to mention this because Iknow one of the ways that we can
prove our mental wellness isto...
use our care for the world andfor each other to take action.
And you just described somethings that we could do on a
daily basis, you know, smallthings that make a big
difference in our world, youknow.
(49:58):
But you also have a charity.
It's called XX Resistance Fund.
That's right.
Yeah.
Can you tell me a little bitabout that?
SPEAKER_00 (50:06):
Sure.
Using things like memorabiliafrom Music videos or from live
shows I've done, auctioning offand raffling off meet and greet
opportunities, one-on-oneinteractions with fans.
You raise money for differentcharities that are impacting
(50:28):
things that different fans aregoing through.
So recent examples of our work.
We raffled off a bunch of stufffrom the music video for my last
video, Dirty.
We gave away some of the masksthat were worn in the video, as
well as a one-on-one FaceTimeopportunity.
We raised over$1,000 for theAlly Coalition, which is an
(50:52):
LGBTQ charity.
And yeah, just little thingslike that along the way.
We've worked with Music Cares inthe past, the Sunrise Movement
for climate justice, CampaignZero to end police brutality.
Just little things like thatwhere not only are we raising
funds and awareness for theseissues, but for me, the real
(51:16):
power of it is showing peoplethat getting involved in the
issues that matter to them is assimple as showing up.
It's like your mental health.
It is as simple as making thedecision that you're going to
get off the sidelines and getinvolved.
So many of the times that I talkto representatives from these
charities, from theseorganizations, they're from all
(51:37):
different walks of life.
They might have a regular 9 to 5and be doing this on their free
time.
They might be volunteering incollege.
Half the time, they're youngerthan me.
I always just, again, I thoughtthat activism, I thought that
that caring about what youbelieve in was somehow reserved
for the people that figuredeverything out.
(51:57):
And there was the rest of us.
But really, it's just as simpleas getting involved and doing a
little bit of research.
No matter where you're living,there are people that believe in
the things that you believe in.
And doing these littleneighborhood walks, local
cleanups, little things likethat, they make you feel better
and you feel a part of somethingbigger than yourself.
And Hearing COVID times, that'sjust so important.
(52:20):
So that's a little bit of thework that I do outside of my
music.
And yeah, it's very rewarding.
And if anybody wants to knowmore, then you can reach out to
me at grandson and we can talkabout it.
SPEAKER_01 (52:33):
Oh, that's so awesome.
You know, your music is so inline with your personality and
what you're doing.
Even, you know, the thoughts inyour head, you know, I can tell
they spill out into your music.
So thank you so much for that.
I cannot wait until seeing youlive because I've seen some of
the shows when you werepreviewing Death of an Optimist
(52:56):
and it was just electric.
SPEAKER_00 (52:59):
Oh my gosh.
Thank you for having me andthank you for doing this and to
Anybody listening that's goingthrough a hard thing, you know,
check your head.
Check your head.
You're doing just fine.
We're all going to make itthrough this time.
And hopefully this year brings alot of good stuff and a lot of
optimism into your life.
UNKNOWN (53:19):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (53:22):
Next, I'll be talking with singer-songwriter
Kat Jensen as we tackle topicslike the uses and benefits of
CBD oil for mood disorders andwhat to do when we feel
overwhelmed or in over our headswith life.
Well, we have the talentedsinger-songwriter Kat Jensen
with us on the Check Your Headpodcast today, and we are going
(53:43):
to talk about the grandsoninterview.
He has a song, it's called InOver My Head, which is kind of
the feeling you get when you'rekind of overwhelmed with life.
I mean, what do you do whenthings like school and things
like work and everything startsto collide together and you feel
overwhelmed?
SPEAKER_02 (54:03):
Well, you know, it's an interesting thing because
sometimes I have to go back andjust simplify things.
You know, I have to really getreal with myself and try to
simplify things.
I really appreciated it whengrandson, he spoke about putting
together your toolkit and, andI've been doing that myself is
(54:27):
putting together a toolkit andthat can entail, you know,
personally, these things thatcan help you.
Like he spoke about journaling.
Well, I journal every day and Idon't, worry about my writing.
I don't worry about my spelling.
I don't worry about, I justwrite whatever the hell comes to
my head.
And you put it there.
Some days it's going to be verylong.
(54:49):
Some days it's going to be justa little blurb.
But it's a place to put things.
And I find that helpful to me.
I also have used Headspace.
I've used Calm.
I've done meditation.
These are things that are allyou know, in my toolbox.
A big one for me is gratitude,is I try to go through a little
(55:12):
list of gratitude because itkeeps me in the moment.
It keeps me realizing that I'mokay right now.
But otherwise, my head can keepspinning trying to figure things
out.
And what I need to do, you can'tfigure things out when it's just
spinning around and around andaround.
SPEAKER_01 (55:31):
Yeah, I think that's a good time.
to step away.
Like I find that when I'mgetting so riled up with so many
things to get done, once I stepaway, I take my dog for a walk,
everything relaxes, my mind getsclear, and all of a sudden I
start to see the priorities.
So, you know, prioritizingwhat's important and then also
(55:56):
letting other things fall awayor maybe rescheduling them for
another time.
These are all ways to kind ofbreak down that feeling of being
overwhelmed with too manythings.
And I think another thing too isthat sometimes we take on too
much responsibility and we don'tallow ourselves to say no.
(56:18):
And that's okay to say no,reschedule it to the next week,
do something like that for ourmental health and wellness.
And also delegate.
That's the other thing that Ineed to think more about is that
I tend to be the one that'swanting to do it all.
But there are a lot of people,if you ask for help, they will
(56:40):
help you.
And people have the time and thecare to do that.
So if you're able to delegateany of your tasks.
Right.
There was one question that Iasked grandson and it was, how
do you have hope when you feelhopeless?
Which kind of brings me to thetopic of catastrophizing.
Yeah.
And it's a term that's used andthat could happen, you know, if
(57:04):
something bad happens.
For instance, instead of kind ofbeing rational about it, we can
kind of spiral down and itbecomes a catastrophe, right?
Let's talk a little bit aboutthat because that could happen
and that can really lead to somebad behavior or really bad
(57:24):
thoughts when we really need toput a stop to it.
SPEAKER_02 (57:29):
Well, catastrophizing is interesting
because it's sort of an all ornothing type of thinking in a
sense.
It's where something gets reallyhuge.
And people might kind of dismissthat as just being
over-exaggeration or you're justkind of going off the deep end
(57:51):
on something.
But our minds do these things.
SPEAKER_01 (57:55):
Right, right, right.
Tastrophizing is like going fromsomething that happened that was
bad, but getting to the pointwhere it's the worst thing that
could possibly happen.
And I have a good example ofthis.
I had a friend who...
was like the leader of a supportgroup here.
And he was doing this for years.
(58:17):
And he had this meeting roomthat was donated to him.
It was sort of like a little bitdark and dingy.
And it had free parking, but itwas kind of not in the greatest
part of town.
But one day, one of the supportgroup members got upset about
something, started complainingabout the group, started
complaining to the buildingmanager.
(58:37):
And what happened was my friend,ended up losing this office
space to conduct his meetings.
But he went to a hotel room byhimself and he started
catastrophizing.
He's like, this is what I'vebeen doing for years.
This is all I do.
This is my purpose in life.
What am I going to do now?
(58:58):
I'm letting down my group.
And that's the whole spiralingdown of making it a catastrophe.
And luckily, when we talked...
It's all about talking yourselfdown or maybe even calling a
friend or buddy to help talkyou...
SPEAKER_02 (59:16):
Talk you off the ledge, so to speak.
Exactly.
Talk you off the ledge.
That's in your toolkit.
You're going to call somebodywhen you start knowing your
brain is doing this to you.
SPEAKER_01 (59:28):
Right.
Or...
If you can't reach someone,you're going to have to talk
yourself off the ledge.
And that is difficult becauseyou have to get to that little
part of your brain thatrationally knows that your life
is not going to fall apart.
SPEAKER_02 (59:45):
Self-talk can do a lot.
Exactly.
(01:00:08):
Yeah, and challenge yourthoughts.
You know, that's kind of thebasis of a lot of cognitive
behavioral therapy is basicallylearning how to turn your
thoughts around.
And it does start with youbecause you may not be able to
call somebody at that moment,but you can look and examine
your thought process.
And you can tell yourself, waita minute, I'm not, we're not
(01:00:30):
buying that story.
Right?
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (01:00:33):
Yeah.
But it takes practice.
It takes practice, right?
To really stop yourself and tellyourself a different story.
But the thing that happened withmy friend, thankfully, is that
when he told the support groupwhat happened, another person
from the group stood up andsaid, you know what?
We have a building here in townthat we will donate to you.
(01:00:58):
And what happened is, sometimesOne door closes and another door
opens, and we do hear that everyso often.
But in this case, that's exactlywhat happened.
He got a beautiful meeting roomat a better part of town, this
clean, bright, professionalroom, and he was so much happier
(01:01:21):
with that.
So Sometimes when something bador it seems a little tragic that
happens, just give it some time.
Sometimes, you know, time iswhat you need, and it might just
be a few days to see what willbecome of it.
SPEAKER_02 (01:01:37):
Well, part of catastrophizing, too, is that
impulsive nature, you know, andwe want to just figure it out
and do something right thissecond.
UNKNOWN (01:01:45):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (01:01:46):
That isn't always the answer, like you just
pointed out, that we have tolearn to manage some of these
impulses and how we talk toourselves.
The course of how this unfoldsmay not be what your mind is
telling you.
And, you know, because wefortune tell, we try to think we
(01:02:06):
know what's going to be in thefuture and we just don't.
SPEAKER_01 (01:02:09):
One last thing I want to talk about is that
grandson sort of explained hisrelationship with Potts.
and CBD oil.
Cannabis has become legal inmany states, but I wanted to
focus on CBD oil because thathas some proven positive mental
effects.
CBD oil also is a cannabiswithout the THC, which is the
(01:02:33):
part that can make us high, butonly has the medicinal qualities
of cannabis.
Have you had experience withthat?
Yeah.
And how has that helped you?
SPEAKER_02 (01:02:46):
Well, I've had some experience with it.
I also have a pain issue.
I have fibromyalgia and lupus.
And, you know, I've used CBDfrom time to time, but I've used
the type that you massage intoyour muscles, you know, and
that's very helpful.
But now I just wanted to pointout real quickly that Not all
(01:03:09):
are created equal, because I doknow that they've done studies
where they have checked thelevels of CBD in different types
of products, and there wasreally not what was touted on
the label.
The problem with this wholething is it's really the Wild
West out there, because there isno FDA type of scheduling for
(01:03:31):
this as far as products go.
But there have been a lot ofstudies and thoughts that say
that it's able to help manageanxiety.
They think that it actually canpossibly help the brain
receptors respond to serotonin,which is a very important mental
health neurotransmitter in yourbrain.
They're finding so manywonderful things about this.
SPEAKER_01 (01:03:55):
And one thing I do need to say is that before you
start anything like this, you dowant to talk with your doctor.
Because everybody is differentas far as how they respond to
medication.
There are things that you needto know about it before you try
it.
Like you said, CBD could come ina cream, good for pain and
muscles and joints.
(01:04:16):
It could come in a tincture,where you can use drops
underneath your tongue, whichgives better absorption.
But I think in general, when youthink about CBD, you think about
it as having a calming effect.
So it can have a calming effecton anxiety.
It could have a calming effecton depression.
(01:04:37):
Like for me, I've used the creamfor my psoriasis.
And psoriasis, oh my gosh, I'vebeen battling that all my life.
And it is the thing that calmsit down better than some of the
prescription creams that I'vehad.
Right.
You know, I've had inflammationsof psoriasis and that causes
(01:04:59):
inflammation throughout my body.
SPEAKER_02 (01:05:01):
They're actually doing studies on it now for
inflammation in the brain thatis exasperating symptoms for
people with MS or with othercognitive issues, Alzheimer's
and et cetera, because it doeshave the ability to calm and
bring down inflammation.
So this is a wonder drug thatneeds so much more research.
(01:05:25):
We just really need to get onboard with getting this research
to the point to where we canactually help people.
SPEAKER_01 (01:05:32):
Right, right.
And we know how to use it andwhere it could be used.
Another way that I've used it iskind of in a gummy form, like an
edible, for sleep.
Sometimes I really have aproblem with sleep and it tends
to relax my mind when it startsto wind up.
So these are things that havehelped me personally and it
(01:05:56):
really has great emotional andphysical benefits.
SPEAKER_02 (01:05:59):
And just realize that CBD is much different than
the THC.
You know, THC commonly canreally wind people's minds up
and it can actually exacerbatemaybe other symptoms of mental
illness.
I think that that's somethingthat grandson was talking about
was that he would go back topot, but sometimes it would make
(01:06:21):
his mind kind of screwed otherways, you know?
SPEAKER_01 (01:06:24):
Right.
Yeah.
You know, one last thing Iwanted to say about CBD Thank
you so much.
(01:06:46):
And again, you want to make surethat you talk to a doctor about
this.
But I did have a friend who wason opioids and used cannabis to
withdraw from that.
And it was successful for him.
But it is something that wouldbe such a wonderful thing
because the opioid crisis reallyis still alive and thriving.
(01:07:09):
And whatever kind of solutionswe can find...
SPEAKER_02 (01:07:15):
Exactly.
There is a drug out therecalled, I think it's Stativix or
something like that.
And it's kind of a combinationof drug therapy, but it also
includes CBD in the drug.
And it's helped people with MS.
And so work with your doctors oryour therapists and really
(01:07:37):
explore where CBD might be areally useful tool for you.
It's fantastic.
It's another tool in yourtoolbox.
SPEAKER_01 (01:07:45):
Right, right.
And your addiction specialist.
They would also have someinformation for you.
Kat, thank you so much for beingon the Checkout Podcast.
I always love talking with you.
Thank you for having me.
A big thank you to Grandson, ourfeatured musical guest, and his
singer-songwriter, Kat Jensen.
For more information onGrandson, visit
(01:08:07):
GrandsonMusic.com.
And on social media, find him atGrandson and...
at Grandson Music and watch himlive on YouTube every Sunday at
12 p.m.
Pacific time for a series XXLive where Grandson talks about
music, politics, answersquestions from his grandkids,
and plays an acoustic track.
(01:08:29):
And be sure to stay tuned tohear a clip of Grandson's In
Over My Head.
So until next time, be brave,ask for help, and be persistent
in finding the mental healththat you need.
SPEAKER_00 (01:08:40):
At 15, I would look around and all my friends had it
figured out.
They all thought it, but theynever said out loud.
I was in over my head.
Oh, I feel this vertigo.
UNKNOWN (01:08:56):
Sick of being an optimist.
I'm trying.
I'm trying.
SPEAKER_00 (01:09:02):
But I'm in over my head.
I'm in over my head.
SPEAKER_01 (01:09:27):
Check Your Head Podcast is kindly supported by
DBSA San Gabriel Valley, LemonTree Studios, and Blue Oak
Mastering and Podcasting in LosAngeles.
Visit our website atcheckyourheadpodcast.com where
you'll find free and affordableresources for mental health and
where you can also support us bydonating or subscribing to our
Patreon page.
(01:09:49):
Thank you so much for liking andfollowing us on Facebook and
Instagram atcheckyourheadpodcast.
And the Check Your Head podcastis sponsored by a 501c3
nonprofit, so all donations aretax deductible.
Thank you so much for listeningand for your support.
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