What if every tough conversation you’ve had was being weaponized against you?
In Letter 2 of C.S. Lewis’s Screwtape Letters, the demon Screwtape reveals how hell twists conflict, sexuality, and even church hurt to devour souls. This episode unpacks his tactics—and equips you to fight back with truth and grace.
YOU’LL DISCOVER:
Screwtape’s #1 strategy to sabotage “speaking the truth in love” (it’s not what you think).
How the enemy exploits church hurt—turning wounded believers into accusers or silent cowards.
The discernment gap—why most Christians miss Satan’s fingerprints on sexuality debates.
The antidote Lewis hid in plain sight: prayer habits that torpedo demonic plots.
HARD TRUTH:
Satan wants you to either obsess over conflict or avoid it entirely. This episode reveals how to do neither.
Dive deeper by listening to our prior episodes on this topic (Episodes 202 and 203) on our website: https://tinyurl.com/CheerUPJourneyToJoy
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Hi and welcome to the Cheer Up podcast.
I am your host, carole R Hunt,and with me is the lovely and
beautiful Sherry Swarwell.
How are you doing?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
today, sherry, i am doing fantastic.
I can tell that it is Junebecause I can hear the birds
singing outside through thewindows.
The windows are closed and yetI can still hear them.
And we have already seen indigobuntings and Baltimore Orioles
and rose something and thelittle ruby color under their
(00:57):
neck.
All this year already.
We have seen so many early andI am loving it.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
I know and on my front porch I have one, two,
three, maybe four hangingbaskets, of all of them full
flowers.
Okay, f-a-u-x.
Full flowers in these basketsright, but they look real.
(01:29):
They look real and just thesenice little full baskets out
there.
They are like greenery andeverything else and we put them
out there in the spring, lo andbehold.
It is just.
Maybe one or two of those fullbaskets have birds nest in them.
Look at, the birds have found away to make their home in those
(01:53):
little baskets.
And I always find it funny andI am like you would think they
were true something real, youknow, like a real tree branch
and the heaven knows we havelots of trees around our
property, you know or anythingelse, and I am like but they
like my little fake stuff.
Isn't that funny?
Yes, and I am going.
Why are you guys?
you know, and I thought it wascute, though I did get mad at
(02:17):
the birds the other day becauseI also have another plant on my
front porch and it is like fulltall grass.
I can't think of the name ofthe grass, but it has got like
little furry, little strings onit and you see it going in a
wild field and I don't know.
It is about three feet tall orwhatever, and it just really
(02:37):
adds color to the porch withoutme having to maintain.
My front porch is covered, sogetting sun for real plants to
grow and thrive is difficult.
Yes, yes.
You know, it is just very, verydifficult.
All my sun, i mean the majorityof my sun, is on my deck, which
is where I have the realflowers, you know, because it
(02:59):
just hits it hard and it staysthere for a minute.
So me trying to grow realflowers on the front is just,
except for the ones I have in,like my little wildflower
section, the ones that arecovered by the porch they just
won't thrive.
But anyways, i have this threefoot one and it has like these
little fur feathery things on itand the birds were just picking
(03:20):
them.
I watched her put in a wholemothful of them.
She picked every little pluckOh, i would be mad.
She picked every.
she kept picking plucks andplucks, and plucks and plucks
and she had a whole mothful ofthese furry little strings, you
know, and everything, and thenshe would fly up to one of those
little baskets that she wasmaking her nest at and I'm like
(03:42):
no, you're the one.
I keep wondering what ishappening you know, You're the
one.
She had like a whole mothful ofthem, you know, and her beak,
you know, and they were justlaying there, you know, inside
her beak, and she just pickedsome more, picked some more,
picked some more, and she hadlike a whole lot of them in her
beak and then she fly up thereand I guess she was just making
(04:04):
it soft for her little babies.
That was on the way, you know,or do I have that wrong?
I'm saying she, it's the malebirds that go out and gather,
wait a minute.
No, i think it's the women.
Is it the women birds?
Okay.
The female birds, okay.
Is it them that go ahead?
you know that, go and do thenesting, Okay.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
And I have a question for you Is she mothering or is
she home decorating?
Is she your interior designer?
because she's rearranging yourfloral arrangement.
She is completely rearrangingmy arrangement, You know
completely.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
I'm like, wait a minute, where did that come from
?
Like I didn't put that in there, you know.
And then you know she'll sitthere, and then she'll go on top
of my little tall grass thingand she'll sit there, she'll
sing, she'll talk, you knowwhatever, and then she'll just,
you know, grab the little thingsor whatever, and then she'll
just take them back up there AndI'm like you're lucky, you're
(05:03):
cute, you're lucky.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Well, people pay hundreds of thousands of dollars
and you're getting it for free.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
I know right, i'm just trying to help you out a
little bit here.
Okay, you know, you just needsome more color in these little
baskets.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
I'm just helping you out, you know.
so it's really really funny.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
You know, and we have , a right in front of the house
is a huge sugar maple where alot of them live.
A lot of different birds livein there and it's this time of
year she's full of bloom, right,she just fully covered in trees
.
And I remember my neighbor saidone time because they don't
have a tree in their yard yet,or not a sugar maple, i should
(05:48):
say, and I think she said sheclosed the car door one time
early in the morning and allthese birds came out.
Oh my God, she's like care.
All these birds came out ofyour tree.
I'm like I know there's so manyof them in that tree you can't
even see them until, like a loudnoise surprises them, you know,
and then all of a sudden it'slike you're all these flutter of
(06:11):
wings, you know, and then theyjust fly.
So they love that sugar maple.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
We have a sugar maple too, and that's where we have
our bird feeders.
And yes, you're right, theycongregate there, but they do
love our sugar maple.
I love it.
It's probably the best.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
I know, yeah, i name our trees, so she's Hadassah.
You know, hannah is in a bag,she's a Colorado aspen, you know
, and everything else.
But yeah, and I think Hadassahloves the company.
She gets lonely doing a winter,so it all works out.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
You know all her friends come back in spring.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
That's important.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
That's important.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
That's very, very important.
So, for those of you who mayjust now be joining us, welcome
to the Cheer Up podcast, thisepisode well, actually this
whole, if you've been listening,at least for the month of June
that we are talking about theclassic literature book, the
(07:13):
Screwtape Letters by CS Lewis,and so if you want to look up
that book or buy the book, ordownload the book, the e-book or
whatnot, it's The ScrewtapeLetters by CS Lewis And again, i
believe the first original cameout in 1941.
There have been multiplereprints since then.
(07:34):
So I think, whichever publisheror whatnot you go with, i think
they all just or the sameoriginal, just perhaps different
publishers.
And we are talking about TheScrewtape Letters and this is
our third, i think, episode onit.
We're going to be talking aboutit for the month of June, july
(07:56):
and August.
And why are we talking about TheScrewtape Letters?
The Screwtape Letters isexactly what it says it is.
It's letters from Screwtape,and Screwtape is a demon And he
is writing letters to his nephew, wormwood.
And so Wormwood has justacquired, as they say, a new
(08:19):
patient or a human, and he'strying to lead him down a garden
path, as they say.
Lead him down a road ofdestruction, and so that's what
he's doing.
He's a low-level demon and hisuncle, screwtape, is writing him
letters on how best to handlethe human to get him to end up
(08:42):
in hell with him and his friendsand their quote-unquote father,
who we all know to be Satan.
So we went into depth, a littlebit more in depth, about the
book and about the scripturesrelating to demons in the Bible,
and we did a lot of that in thevery first episode of this
series that we're talking aboutand that is on the June 7th
(09:05):
episode.
So if you want to go back andyou want to look at the
scriptures about demons and howthey can manipulate people, how
they can possess people, howthey can oppress people and even
animals, where did demons comefrom?
all of that?
We gave a list of scripturesand everything else in that June
(09:28):
7th episode and just a littlebit more about the book and why
we're covering it.
And the book has 31 chapters andeach episode for the month of
June, july and August, we'rejust going to take a chapter and
talk about the main topic ofthat chapter, and so today we
are with letter number two orchapter two, depending on, i
(09:55):
think, which version of the bookyou get.
It may say letter, it may saychapter, but we're talking about
letter number two in the book,and so this episode is titled
Love of Neighbor versus Hatred.
And letter two is interestingin the fact that when you read
(10:19):
letter two And again, theseletters are not very long
because it's just from one demonto the other, from Uncle Demon
to Nephew Demon, and the uncleis just, he's just writing
letters on trying to school theyounger demon on how to properly
do things.
Well, and letter number twoUncle Screwtape is pretty upset.
(10:45):
He is upset that Wormwood, hisnephew Wormwood, has allowed his
human to become a Christian,and because Wormwood has been
assigned to him before the, herefers to it as the patient, but
before the human became aChristian.
And so now Uncle Screwtapefinds out that his nephew
(11:10):
Wormwood has somehow dropped theball and let the young man
become a Christian, and he'supset about it, He's
disappointed in it And he sayshe's going to be punished for it
, but to nevertheless not tolose hope because there's still
work to be done, why he's a veryyoung and immature Christian
(11:35):
And so he's like we're going to.
I want you to put thoughts intohis brain about his spiritual
immaturity and an effort to winhim back over to our side,
meaning the dark side.
He's like no need to despair.
We got this.
I mean, you dropped the ball onthis one, but it's not over yet
.
Right?
(11:56):
The fat lady hasn't sung.
He's new to this wholeChristianity thing, so we still
got some ground to work with.
And these are the things andthoughts and ways I want you to
influence him and the thoughts Ineed you to put into his mind
and everything like that.
And one of the things hesuggests is like what we're
(12:17):
going to do is, when he startsgoing to church, i want you to
start highlighting the strangeand crazy habits of the people
sitting around him and thehypocrisy of it.
Like that guy over there isn'tthat the local grocer, and
wasn't he doing something withsomeone else?
or something like that?
And you don't have him focus onthe hypocrisy of the people
(12:38):
around him, having focused onhis own spiritual maturity.
Like can I really do this?
Like I've never read the Bible,i've never done this, and so
that's what he is trying to do.
He is trying to distract theyoung Christians mind.
Wow, what did you think aboutletter two, sherry?
Speaker 2 (12:58):
I think, to be honest with you, it is so apropos for
this whole book is so aproposfor society today Because I
think that, with the mentalitythat we have of you can't offend
anybody.
You have to be careful, youknow, don't offend, don't offend
, which is true, like, like youwant to when you go to church.
(13:20):
Well, okay, so I've alwaysheard the phrase hurt people,
hurt people.
Her people are the ones thatshould be at church, like the
church is for the sick, not thehealthy.
Yes, there are healthy peopleat church, but everybody,
everybody has issues Andregardless of how much freedom
God gives us, we live in animperfect world, so we're always
going to pick up more issues,like we're never going to be
(13:43):
free from issues until we're inheaven.
So hurt people, hurt people.
Something to keep in mind.
There are healthy people atchurch, but even healthy people
get hurt.
So our focus needs to be on ourrelationship with God.
It's that whole mind shiftingthat we were talking about
earlier in, was it?
I think it was in June 7th thatwe were talking about the whole
(14:05):
mind shift.
Oh, yeah, the June 7th episode,right, yeah, when we have that,
that mind shift, or that, that,that mind, you just have to
shift your mindset a little bit.
You don't have to change itcompletely.
But when we shift our mindsetfrom looking around us and
judging everything that could gowrong to what do you want to
(14:25):
teach me and how can I be ablessing, it makes all the
difference in the world And thatis the, i think, the difference
between the heart of a believerand somebody who who is not
living with, with a heavenlyfocus or a and I'm not saying
that non-believers can't, can'tbe, you know, kind and loving
(14:46):
and and have a mind focus of, ora mindset of, how can I be a
blessing to others?
I'm not saying that.
I'm just saying the Holy Spiritis the one that helps me do it.
I know that if I didn't havethe Holy Spirit living in me, i
would be a heck of a lotcrabbier Than what I am.
I'm just saying that, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
And and who knows what type of road we will be on.
to be truthful, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Exactly, exactly.
But then again, i think that intoday's society we also have to
prayerfully, when there'ssomething going on at our church
and we're given that nudge bythe Holy Spirit, And I'm not
okay I guess I shouldn't justsay church but when there's
something going on that we see,whether it's in our circle of
friends, whether it's in our job, whether it's in our church,
(15:29):
whether it's in our communitygroup, whether it's in a after
school activity or a Bible study, whatever it is, whatever kind
of activity that we do, if thereis something there that grieves
the Holy Spirit or that givesus that nudge, then I think we
need to prayerfully bring itbefore the Holy Spirit and say
is this something that you wantme to speak the truth and love
(15:50):
about?
Because sometimes they're doingit willingly and willfully and
they're sitting on purposebecause they don't care, and
sometimes it's a pride thing,and then sometimes they just
truly don't know.
Like I had an example in adifferent church that I went to
and my husband and I wereserving, and it was the first
time my husband had ever served,and the youth pastor who we
(16:14):
were serving under was he wasshowing favoritism, he was just,
it was just very blatantlyobvious And I didn't want to say
anything to him.
I thought, okay, he's justbeing a jerk, Maybe that's just
the way he is.
That's not my business.
God, you deal with him.
I don't want to deal with him.
And God said, no, he needssomebody to point it out to him
(16:36):
in love.
He needs somebody who's goingto show him that he'll listen to
.
And I'm like, well, that's notme.
And God's like, well, yeah,kind of is I'm like giving you
that assignment, are you goingto take it or not?
And I literally wrestled withit with God for months because I
was a people pleaser and Ididn't want to ruffle feathers.
I didn't really necessarilycare about him.
I'm not saying that in a rudeway, but I'm saying I didn't
(16:58):
care if I offended him,necessarily because I didn't
have like a deep friendship withhim.
I just didn't like to rufflefeathers in general And I didn't
want to be seen as that person.
And so, but God wouldn't let melet it go.
And so I asked for, i called for, a meeting with him, went there
shaking the whole time.
I'm like I just do not want tobe doing this.
He was even in the meeting.
(17:21):
He was very rushed, he was veryrude, he was very abrasive.
He was like I mean, it was veryobvious, let's get this over
with.
I have better things to do, idon't want to even be spending
my afternoon with you, type of athing.
And his assumption was that Iwas complaining about one of the
workers, one of his right handmen, and he said so, this is
(17:42):
about so and so isn't it.
And I said no, i said actuallyit's about you.
And he the look on his face andhe truly repented, like God
used that incident.
I'm not saying God used me.
I'm saying God used thatincident for true repentance for
this man.
He had no idea that he wasacting that way or that he was,
(18:04):
that his actions were so hurtfulAnd he literally changed 180
degrees and God used that in hislife.
So that's what I'm getting at.
Is that, yes, we need to go tochurch and we need to be focused
on worship, our relationshipwith God and how we can bless
others.
But sometimes God uses us tospeak the truth and love to
(18:28):
others.
But you better be prayed up.
You better know that, know that, you know that.
You know that.
You know that it's God tellingyou to do it, that it's an
assignment from him and not justyou have a grudge against
somebody and then you need totake it like, saturate it in
prayer before you even attemptto do it.
Probably not wait as long as Idid, because I think God was
(18:49):
probably like come on, sherry, iasked you to do this three
months ago.
He also knows me very well, sohe knows that.
You know I take a little bit oftime, but I do.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Let me prepare her now, because it's going to take
a minute Exactly.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
So that is kind of what I got out of that chapter,
Sarah.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Yeah, and it's so important, like you said, that
you important that you just saythat, because a lot of times and
I have to ask myself this invarious relationships, whether
it's family relationships orfriendships I have to ask myself
, and even when I was, and evenif you're in a working
(19:31):
environment I work from home now, so I don't necessarily have
this issue anymore But even incoworker, you know, type
situations when I feel likesomething needs to be addressed,
i have to.
One of the first questions Ihave to ask myself is what is my
motivation?
And I have to rule out sourgrapes, right?
(19:53):
Am I sour about something orsomething they did, or the way
they responded, you know, orsomething like that.
And if I'm not completely sure,i'm like you, i will wait it
out And I'm like, ok, god, ifthis is you, you know what I'm
saying, just keep you know,he'll keep reminding you.
And I'm like, ok, this isn'tsour grapes, this really just
(20:13):
does need to be addressed.
And so that that is very, very,very important to be able to do
that, whether it's with achurch person or a church friend
or member of the congregationor whatnot, but it is.
But you know, it's in thisparticular case, he's Uncle
(20:38):
Skute is encouraging warm woodnephew, warm wood, to
intentionally, purposely, try todo anything he can, starting
with his thought life,influencing his thought life,
(20:58):
the young Christian thought life, to bring him over to the dark
side, to kind of guarantee him apath down a dark path.
And he's just like you know.
Let's just start with this, lethim focus on the wrongs of
everybody else.
And I remember a family membertelling me one time that they
had got turned off, likesignificantly turned off, like
(21:22):
this just really really botheredthem by something that had
happened in their church becausethey had grown up, grow, they
had grew up from a young person,you know, into this church
until, like almost like a youngadult, i believe to, where they
felt like they knew the peopleand everything in the leadership
(21:42):
and trusted them.
So when the worship leader, whowas married, was found out to
be having a relationship withone of the choir members or
something who was also married,it just really set them on a
path of no one in church can betrusted, right, because he was
(22:09):
like, but I knew these peopleand you know, and I knew their
wives and I knew her husband andeverything else.
And then they come to find outthat they were secretly having
an affair for years and no oneknew about it until recently.
You know.
He just felt like the trust wasbroken And by default he was
(22:31):
like well, if I can't trust themand I've been knowing them
since I was young then who can Itrust in church?
They're all a bunch ofhypocrites.
And that is exactly what UncleScrewtape was trying to tell his
nephew Wormwood.
Get them to focus on somethingelse, because we need them out
of church.
We don't need them praying, wedon't need them studying the
(22:55):
word, we do not need them tohear a good, sound biblical
doctrine.
We need to focus them onsomething else.
That would not only get themout of church but prayerfully
get him to think that allChristians are hypocrites and
that they're all alike and thatnone of them can be trusted.
And then that leaves a wideopen door for you to influence
(23:19):
him and his thoughts into awhole different, dark path and
almost guarantee him, guaranteehim a place down here with us.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
So how do you counteract that Kara?
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Well, like this particular family member, they
had someone in her life who waslike you can't judge, you know
the acts of two people.
When it's all said and done, wehave to remember okay, we have
to remember that whether they'vebeen in church for five minutes
or 50 years, they are stillhuman, they still bleed red,
(24:00):
they are still sons anddaughters of Adam and Eve.
We are in a sinful world And,even though it was a shock and
it was a betrayal, in cases likethis, when it's a shock and a
betrayal, we have to rememberthat they are still human.
They made a horrible, horrible,horrible mistake.
(24:23):
For years they lived in secretand in darkness, and that comes
with its own type of prison.
So it's not like they are goingto get away with that, but God
is going to deal with them onthat.
Right, god would deal with that.
And we have to realize thatpeople are human And we also
have to say oh, my goodness,lord, i am hurt, i am broken.
I am so broken I have suchchurch.
(24:46):
Hurt takes on so many variousforms.
Right, in this case it was theworship leader and one of the
choir members, or whatever.
In other cases it could bespiritual abuses by your pastor,
your reverend, your bishop oryour priest or something like
(25:08):
that, and to where they aresaying, you know well, god says
you have to do this, or God saysyou are not supposed to do that
, or you are not.
You know what I am saying Whenthey take the abuse to a level
that it is not supposed to betaken, and the same thing with
other congregants, you know, andthings like that.
So church hurt comes in variousforms.
(25:29):
Okay, and so all of us could besubject to it at one time or
another, and sometimes it hurtsand it cuts deep because we are
feeling like the people that wethought we knew the best, who
you know, we did Bible studywith for years, who we went to
church with for years, like howcould they hurt me like that,
how could they spread that lieabout me?
(25:50):
How could they, you know, cheaton their wife like that?
How could they make a pass atmy husband like that?
How could they treat my kidslike that?
You know it hurts and it cutsand it goes deep sometimes, but
we have to keep in mind that wehave to keep in mind that those
people are not representationsof God when they do that Their
(26:16):
actions.
If they're not God-like actions, they were not God-ordained.
It is as simple as that.
That just because they're badand Christians, the label
Christian pretty much means arepresentative of Christ.
But, as all of us Christiansknow, we are not always the best
representatives.
(26:37):
Right, you know at?
you know, at times, just watchsome people in traffic, you know
that have like the littlesymbol of the fish on a bumper,
you know, and they have ascripture.
But yet you see them in trafficand they're like swearing and
doing things.
You know at, people who aredoing erratic driving, you know.
(26:58):
So we're not always the bestrepresentatives.
We have to separate the peopleand what they do from the God
above, the God of love, the God,the most high God.
That is not him, that is them.
God has given people their ownhuman will.
They can do what they want todo, you know, and a lot of times
(27:18):
does God ordain that?
No, he's probably beenministering and talking to them
and to them about their behaviorand the seeing that they're
working in for a long time.
They just decided they didn'twant to give it up at whatever
particular moment in time, forwhatever reason.
That does no representation ofGod, that is them that made
their own choices to do that.
(27:39):
So you can't associate thatwith what those people do with
the God above, who is the God oflove, because the most awesome
thing about all of that is that,despite all of that betrayal,
despite the people they hurt,including their own families and
their spouses if they trulyrepent, god will welcome them
like none of that even happened.
(28:01):
And we got to remember that,because when it who knows, when
one day, we make that onemistake that everyone's going to
be looking at and be like, ohmy goodness, i just didn't think
that you would ever, you know,say that.
Do that be a part of that.
And so we want, have to, youknow, extend grace.
We have to extend mercy.
We have to pray for God to healthe hurt so that we can move on
(28:25):
, sometimes with them, sometimesnot, depending on if they're
repenting of their repented, ifthey were repenting hard of
their behavior, you know.
Then of course, you know, wecan bring them back into our
inner circle again If they'renot and they're like Yeah, no,
we haven't done a prayer, weplan on to keep having a prayer
and can you keep quiet about it,okay, well then you don't want
any part of that, now that youknow right, so you're not going
(28:48):
to be a part of that, can youstill pray for them and pray
that you know, god, that they dothe right thing Absolutely.
Do you still have to keepcompany with that?
No, as a matter of fact, youdon't want to, or things like
that.
We have to extend mercy, Wehave to send grace, we have to
extend forgiveness if they'rerepenting hard, but most of all,
(29:08):
we have got to ask God to healour heart, our broken heart
about it, because if not, theenemy ceases that opportunity to
pull you out of that church,away from the good godly friends
not the bad ones, the goodgodly friends and isolate you
(29:30):
And into thinking all of this isbogus, all of this is fake news
, all of those Christians,everything the pastor said in
church is the Bible even real,and everything else.
And then you're down a dark,dark, dark path that could
possibly last years and could,more importantly, cost you your
eternal soul.
The whole time, the demonicinfluencers that put all of that
(29:54):
in place and put all thosethoughts in your mind are
laughing.
They're like that was a loteasier than I thought it would
be, and now we got them and wegot our claws in them and he's
not even going to go back.
He's so disturbed, so upsetabout what happened that has
completely changed his path.
Now we got him in our eyes,sights, and then when he dies,
(30:18):
he's ours.
We have to pay attention tothat.
We have got to pay attention,we've got to start seeing things
with spiritual ears and eyesand not just our physical ones,
because just how God pursues usand he rules our heart to have a
relationship with him, you havesomeone else who is
manipulating and deceiving andbe guiling and bewitching and
(30:43):
doing all these other things tomake sure that you do not fall
in love with your Savior Andheaven forbid, have good
Christian, bible-believer,christians in your circle who
can help build you up when yougo down.
So we have got to be very, verycareful of that.
Hopefully that answered yourquestion, sherry.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Oh, perfectly, perfectly.
And I think the only thing thatI want to add to everything
that you said was thatforgiveness is so important.
We need to make sure that westay.
If we have a grudge that we'reholding, we need to make sure
that we stay.
Forgiven up.
Forgiven up because that is oneof the main ways, or that is
(31:31):
one of the sneaky ways, for theenemy to get into our soul and
to erode us with bitterness andhatred and hardness.
That's a way that God or notGod, sorry that's a way that the
enemy likes to harden ourhearts, and there's nothing
worse than having a hardenedheart as far as drawing us away
(31:54):
from God and making us thinkthat well, making us start to
believe the lies of the enemy.
So I guess I just want toreally encourage people that
church hurt is real.
Church hurt is hard, like yousaid, it's one of the hardest
(32:16):
ones to get through.
But you do not want to let theenemy get a foothold.
You don't want to let him get apathway into your soul by
holding a grudge, being bitteror not forgiving, choosing not
to forget, because, like yousaid, you're talking about your
(32:37):
eternal soul with this andthat's how serious it really is.
So if you want to talk to usmore about any of what we just
talked about today, if you wantto do it privately, you can give
us an email atcheeruppodcastcom.
Or if you want to start adiscussion on the Facebook group
(32:57):
, we would love to have youstart one and we would love to
join in.
All you have to do is go overto Facebook and look up Cheer Up
Podcasts.
As Kara has said multiple timesin the past, you do not need to
answer any questions.
There's no test involved.
You just click on it and you'rethere.
You belong Head over to Kara'swebsite, karaahuntcom or
(33:21):
shareysquadwellcom, and you cancheck out the different things
that we have there.
I hope that you will join us atour website, but, more
importantly, we hope that youwill come back next week.
We're going to be talking abouthuman sexuality.
It can be a hot topic at times,but come back next week and see
how we tackle it.
Have a great rest of your week.
(33:42):
I hope that you are trulyenjoying your summer days I hope
they're long and lazy to anextent and, more importantly,
that you feel blessed.
Have a great week.
We will see you next week.
Thanks for being here.
Hi and welcome to the Cheer Up podcast.
I am your host, carole R Hunt,and with me is the lovely and
beautiful Sherry Swarwell.
How are you doing?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
today, sherry, i am doing fantastic.
I can tell that it is Junebecause I can hear the birds
singing outside through thewindows.
The windows are closed and yetI can still hear them.
And we have already seen indigobuntings and Baltimore Orioles
and rose something and thelittle ruby color under their
(00:57):
neck.
All this year already.
We have seen so many early andI am loving it.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
I know and on my front porch I have one, two,
three, maybe four hangingbaskets, of all of them full
flowers.
Okay, f-a-u-x.
Full flowers in these basketsright, but they look real.
(01:29):
They look real and just thesenice little full baskets out
there.
They are like greenery andeverything else and we put them
out there in the spring, lo andbehold.
It is just.
Maybe one or two of those fullbaskets have birds nest in them.
Look at, the birds have found away to make their home in those
(01:53):
little baskets.
And I always find it funny andI am like you would think they
were true something real, youknow, like a real tree branch
and the heaven knows we havelots of trees around our
property, you know or anythingelse, and I am like but they
like my little fake stuff.
Isn't that funny?
Yes, and I am going.
Why are you guys?
you know, and I thought it wascute, though I did get mad at
(02:17):
the birds the other day becauseI also have another plant on my
front porch and it is like fulltall grass.
I can't think of the name ofthe grass, but it has got like
little furry, little strings onit and you see it going in a
wild field and I don't know.
It is about three feet tall orwhatever, and it just really
(02:37):
adds color to the porch withoutme having to maintain.
My front porch is covered, sogetting sun for real plants to
grow and thrive is difficult.
Yes, yes.
You know, it is just very, verydifficult.
All my sun, i mean the majorityof my sun, is on my deck, which
is where I have the realflowers, you know, because it
(02:59):
just hits it hard and it staysthere for a minute.
So me trying to grow realflowers on the front is just,
except for the ones I have in,like my little wildflower
section, the ones that arecovered by the porch they just
won't thrive.
But anyways, i have this threefoot one and it has like these
little fur feathery things on itand the birds were just picking
(03:20):
them.
I watched her put in a wholemothful of them.
She picked every little pluckOh, i would be mad.
She picked every.
she kept picking plucks andplucks, and plucks and plucks
and she had a whole mothful ofthese furry little strings, you
know, and everything, and thenshe would fly up to one of those
little baskets that she wasmaking her nest at and I'm like
(03:42):
no, you're the one.
I keep wondering what ishappening you know, You're the
one.
She had like a whole mothful ofthem, you know, and her beak,
you know, and they were justlaying there, you know, inside
her beak, and she just pickedsome more, picked some more,
picked some more, and she hadlike a whole lot of them in her
beak and then she fly up thereand I guess she was just making
(04:04):
it soft for her little babies.
That was on the way, you know,or do I have that wrong?
I'm saying she, it's the malebirds that go out and gather,
wait a minute.
No, i think it's the women.
Is it the women birds?
Okay.
The female birds, okay.
Is it them that go ahead?
you know that, go and do thenesting, Okay.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
And I have a question for you Is she mothering or is
she home decorating?
Is she your interior designer?
because she's rearranging yourfloral arrangement.
She is completely rearrangingmy arrangement, You know
completely.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
I'm like, wait a minute, where did that come from
?
Like I didn't put that in there, you know.
And then you know she'll sitthere, and then she'll go on top
of my little tall grass thingand she'll sit there, she'll
sing, she'll talk, you knowwhatever, and then she'll just,
you know, grab the little thingsor whatever, and then she'll
just take them back up there AndI'm like you're lucky, you're
(05:03):
cute, you're lucky.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Well, people pay hundreds of thousands of dollars
and you're getting it for free.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
I know right, i'm just trying to help you out a
little bit here.
Okay, you know, you just needsome more color in these little
baskets.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
I'm just helping you out, you know.
so it's really really funny.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
You know, and we have , a right in front of the house
is a huge sugar maple where alot of them live.
A lot of different birds livein there and it's this time of
year she's full of bloom, right,she just fully covered in trees
.
And I remember my neighbor saidone time because they don't
have a tree in their yard yet,or not a sugar maple, i should
(05:48):
say, and I think she said sheclosed the car door one time
early in the morning and allthese birds came out.
Oh my God, she's like care.
All these birds came out ofyour tree.
I'm like I know there's so manyof them in that tree you can't
even see them until, like a loudnoise surprises them, you know,
and then all of a sudden it'slike you're all these flutter of
(06:11):
wings, you know, and then theyjust fly.
So they love that sugar maple.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
We have a sugar maple too, and that's where we have
our bird feeders.
And yes, you're right, theycongregate there, but they do
love our sugar maple.
I love it.
It's probably the best.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
I know, yeah, i name our trees, so she's Hadassah.
You know, hannah is in a bag,she's a Colorado aspen, you know
, and everything else.
But yeah, and I think Hadassahloves the company.
She gets lonely doing a winter,so it all works out.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
You know all her friends come back in spring.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
That's important.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
That's important.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
That's very, very important.
So, for those of you who mayjust now be joining us, welcome
to the Cheer Up podcast, thisepisode well, actually this
whole, if you've been listening,at least for the month of June
that we are talking about theclassic literature book, the
(07:13):
Screwtape Letters by CS Lewis,and so if you want to look up
that book or buy the book, ordownload the book, the e-book or
whatnot, it's The ScrewtapeLetters by CS Lewis And again, i
believe the first original cameout in 1941.
There have been multiplereprints since then.
(07:34):
So I think, whichever publisheror whatnot you go with, i think
they all just or the sameoriginal, just perhaps different
publishers.
And we are talking about TheScrewtape Letters and this is
our third, i think, episode onit.
We're going to be talking aboutit for the month of June, july
(07:56):
and August.
And why are we talking about TheScrewtape Letters?
The Screwtape Letters isexactly what it says it is.
It's letters from Screwtape,and Screwtape is a demon And he
is writing letters to his nephew, wormwood.
And so Wormwood has justacquired, as they say, a new
(08:19):
patient or a human, and he'strying to lead him down a garden
path, as they say.
Lead him down a road ofdestruction, and so that's what
he's doing.
He's a low-level demon and hisuncle, screwtape, is writing him
letters on how best to handlethe human to get him to end up
(08:42):
in hell with him and his friendsand their quote-unquote father,
who we all know to be Satan.
So we went into depth, a littlebit more in depth, about the
book and about the scripturesrelating to demons in the Bible,
and we did a lot of that in thevery first episode of this
series that we're talking aboutand that is on the June 7th
(09:05):
episode.
So if you want to go back andyou want to look at the
scriptures about demons and howthey can manipulate people, how
they can possess people, howthey can oppress people and even
animals, where did demons comefrom?
all of that?
We gave a list of scripturesand everything else in that June
(09:28):
7th episode and just a littlebit more about the book and why
we're covering it.
And the book has 31 chapters andeach episode for the month of
June, july and August, we'rejust going to take a chapter and
talk about the main topic ofthat chapter, and so today we
are with letter number two orchapter two, depending on, i
(09:55):
think, which version of the bookyou get.
It may say letter, it may saychapter, but we're talking about
letter number two in the book,and so this episode is titled
Love of Neighbor versus Hatred.
And letter two is interestingin the fact that when you read
(10:19):
letter two And again, theseletters are not very long
because it's just from one demonto the other, from Uncle Demon
to Nephew Demon, and the uncleis just, he's just writing
letters on trying to school theyounger demon on how to properly
do things.
Well, and letter number twoUncle Screwtape is pretty upset.
(10:45):
He is upset that Wormwood, hisnephew Wormwood, has allowed his
human to become a Christian,and because Wormwood has been
assigned to him before the, herefers to it as the patient, but
before the human became aChristian.
And so now Uncle Screwtapefinds out that his nephew
(11:10):
Wormwood has somehow dropped theball and let the young man
become a Christian, and he'supset about it, He's
disappointed in it And he sayshe's going to be punished for it
, but to nevertheless not tolose hope because there's still
work to be done, why he's a veryyoung and immature Christian
(11:35):
And so he's like we're going to.
I want you to put thoughts intohis brain about his spiritual
immaturity and an effort to winhim back over to our side,
meaning the dark side.
He's like no need to despair.
We got this.
I mean, you dropped the ball onthis one, but it's not over yet
.
Right?
(11:56):
The fat lady hasn't sung.
He's new to this wholeChristianity thing, so we still
got some ground to work with.
And these are the things andthoughts and ways I want you to
influence him and the thoughts Ineed you to put into his mind
and everything like that.
And one of the things hesuggests is like what we're
(12:17):
going to do is, when he startsgoing to church, i want you to
start highlighting the strangeand crazy habits of the people
sitting around him and thehypocrisy of it.
Like that guy over there isn'tthat the local grocer, and
wasn't he doing something withsomeone else?
or something like that?
And you don't have him focus onthe hypocrisy of the people
(12:38):
around him, having focused onhis own spiritual maturity.
Like can I really do this?
Like I've never read the Bible,i've never done this, and so
that's what he is trying to do.
He is trying to distract theyoung Christians mind.
Wow, what did you think aboutletter two, sherry?
Speaker 2 (12:58):
I think, to be honest with you, it is so apropos for
this whole book is so aproposfor society today Because I
think that, with the mentalitythat we have of you can't offend
anybody.
You have to be careful, youknow, don't offend, don't offend
, which is true, like, like youwant to when you go to church.
(13:20):
Well, okay, so I've alwaysheard the phrase hurt people,
hurt people.
Her people are the ones thatshould be at church, like the
church is for the sick, not thehealthy.
Yes, there are healthy peopleat church, but everybody,
everybody has issues Andregardless of how much freedom
God gives us, we live in animperfect world, so we're always
going to pick up more issues,like we're never going to be
(13:43):
free from issues until we're inheaven.
So hurt people, hurt people.
Something to keep in mind.
There are healthy people atchurch, but even healthy people
get hurt.
So our focus needs to be on ourrelationship with God.
It's that whole mind shiftingthat we were talking about
earlier in, was it?
I think it was in June 7th thatwe were talking about the whole
(14:05):
mind shift.
Oh, yeah, the June 7th episode,right, yeah, when we have that,
that mind shift, or that, that,that mind, you just have to
shift your mindset a little bit.
You don't have to change itcompletely.
But when we shift our mindsetfrom looking around us and
judging everything that could gowrong to what do you want to
(14:25):
teach me and how can I be ablessing, it makes all the
difference in the world And thatis the, i think, the difference
between the heart of a believerand somebody who who is not
living with, with a heavenlyfocus or a and I'm not saying
that non-believers can't, can'tbe, you know, kind and loving
(14:46):
and and have a mind focus of, ora mindset of, how can I be a
blessing to others?
I'm not saying that.
I'm just saying the Holy Spiritis the one that helps me do it.
I know that if I didn't havethe Holy Spirit living in me, i
would be a heck of a lotcrabbier Than what I am.
I'm just saying that, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
And and who knows what type of road we will be on.
to be truthful, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Exactly, exactly.
But then again, i think that intoday's society we also have to
prayerfully, when there'ssomething going on at our church
and we're given that nudge bythe Holy Spirit, And I'm not
okay I guess I shouldn't justsay church but when there's
something going on that we see,whether it's in our circle of
friends, whether it's in our job, whether it's in our church,
(15:29):
whether it's in our communitygroup, whether it's in a after
school activity or a Bible study, whatever it is, whatever kind
of activity that we do, if thereis something there that grieves
the Holy Spirit or that givesus that nudge, then I think we
need to prayerfully bring itbefore the Holy Spirit and say
is this something that you wantme to speak the truth and love
(15:50):
about?
Because sometimes they're doingit willingly and willfully and
they're sitting on purposebecause they don't care, and
sometimes it's a pride thing,and then sometimes they just
truly don't know.
Like I had an example in adifferent church that I went to
and my husband and I wereserving, and it was the first
time my husband had ever served,and the youth pastor who we
(16:14):
were serving under was he wasshowing favoritism, he was just,
it was just very blatantlyobvious And I didn't want to say
anything to him.
I thought, okay, he's justbeing a jerk, Maybe that's just
the way he is.
That's not my business.
God, you deal with him.
I don't want to deal with him.
And God said, no, he needssomebody to point it out to him
(16:36):
in love.
He needs somebody who's goingto show him that he'll listen to
.
And I'm like, well, that's notme.
And God's like, well, yeah,kind of is I'm like giving you
that assignment, are you goingto take it or not?
And I literally wrestled withit with God for months because I
was a people pleaser and Ididn't want to ruffle feathers.
I didn't really necessarilycare about him.
I'm not saying that in a rudeway, but I'm saying I didn't
(16:58):
care if I offended him,necessarily because I didn't
have like a deep friendship withhim.
I just didn't like to rufflefeathers in general And I didn't
want to be seen as that person.
And so, but God wouldn't let melet it go.
And so I asked for, i called for, a meeting with him, went there
shaking the whole time.
I'm like I just do not want tobe doing this.
He was even in the meeting.
(17:21):
He was very rushed, he was veryrude, he was very abrasive.
He was like I mean, it was veryobvious, let's get this over
with.
I have better things to do, idon't want to even be spending
my afternoon with you, type of athing.
And his assumption was that Iwas complaining about one of the
workers, one of his right handmen, and he said so, this is
(17:42):
about so and so isn't it.
And I said no, i said actuallyit's about you.
And he the look on his face andhe truly repented, like God
used that incident.
I'm not saying God used me.
I'm saying God used thatincident for true repentance for
this man.
He had no idea that he wasacting that way or that he was,
(18:04):
that his actions were so hurtfulAnd he literally changed 180
degrees and God used that in hislife.
So that's what I'm getting at.
Is that, yes, we need to go tochurch and we need to be focused
on worship, our relationshipwith God and how we can bless
others.
But sometimes God uses us tospeak the truth and love to
(18:28):
others.
But you better be prayed up.
You better know that, know that, you know that.
You know that.
You know that it's God tellingyou to do it, that it's an
assignment from him and not justyou have a grudge against
somebody and then you need totake it like, saturate it in
prayer before you even attemptto do it.
Probably not wait as long as Idid, because I think God was
(18:49):
probably like come on, sherry, iasked you to do this three
months ago.
He also knows me very well, sohe knows that.
You know I take a little bit oftime, but I do.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Let me prepare her now, because it's going to take
a minute Exactly.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
So that is kind of what I got out of that chapter,
Sarah.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Yeah, and it's so important, like you said, that
you important that you just saythat, because a lot of times and
I have to ask myself this invarious relationships, whether
it's family relationships orfriendships I have to ask myself
, and even when I was, and evenif you're in a working
(19:31):
environment I work from home now, so I don't necessarily have
this issue anymore But even incoworker, you know, type
situations when I feel likesomething needs to be addressed,
i have to.
One of the first questions Ihave to ask myself is what is my
motivation?
And I have to rule out sourgrapes, right?
(19:53):
Am I sour about something orsomething they did, or the way
they responded, you know, orsomething like that.
And if I'm not completely sure,i'm like you, i will wait it
out And I'm like, ok, god, ifthis is you, you know what I'm
saying, just keep you know,he'll keep reminding you.
And I'm like, ok, this isn'tsour grapes, this really just
(20:13):
does need to be addressed.
And so that that is very, very,very important to be able to do
that, whether it's with achurch person or a church friend
or member of the congregationor whatnot, but it is.
But you know, it's in thisparticular case, he's Uncle
(20:38):
Skute is encouraging warm woodnephew, warm wood, to
intentionally, purposely, try todo anything he can, starting
with his thought life,influencing his thought life,
(20:58):
the young Christian thought life, to bring him over to the dark
side, to kind of guarantee him apath down a dark path.
And he's just like you know.
Let's just start with this, lethim focus on the wrongs of
everybody else.
And I remember a family membertelling me one time that they
had got turned off, likesignificantly turned off, like
(21:22):
this just really really botheredthem by something that had
happened in their church becausethey had grown up, grow, they
had grew up from a young person,you know, into this church
until, like almost like a youngadult, i believe to, where they
felt like they knew the peopleand everything in the leadership
(21:42):
and trusted them.
So when the worship leader, whowas married, was found out to
be having a relationship withone of the choir members or
something who was also married,it just really set them on a
path of no one in church can betrusted, right, because he was
(22:09):
like, but I knew these peopleand you know, and I knew their
wives and I knew her husband andeverything else.
And then they come to find outthat they were secretly having
an affair for years and no oneknew about it until recently.
You know.
He just felt like the trust wasbroken And by default he was
(22:31):
like well, if I can't trust themand I've been knowing them
since I was young then who can Itrust in church?
They're all a bunch ofhypocrites.
And that is exactly what UncleScrewtape was trying to tell his
nephew Wormwood.
Get them to focus on somethingelse, because we need them out
of church.
We don't need them praying, wedon't need them studying the
(22:55):
word, we do not need them tohear a good, sound biblical
doctrine.
We need to focus them onsomething else.
That would not only get themout of church but prayerfully
get him to think that allChristians are hypocrites and
that they're all alike and thatnone of them can be trusted.
And then that leaves a wideopen door for you to influence
(23:19):
him and his thoughts into awhole different, dark path and
almost guarantee him, guaranteehim a place down here with us.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
So how do you counteract that Kara?
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Well, like this particular family member, they
had someone in her life who waslike you can't judge, you know
the acts of two people.
When it's all said and done, wehave to remember okay, we have
to remember that whether they'vebeen in church for five minutes
or 50 years, they are stillhuman, they still bleed red,
(24:00):
they are still sons anddaughters of Adam and Eve.
We are in a sinful world And,even though it was a shock and
it was a betrayal, in cases likethis, when it's a shock and a
betrayal, we have to rememberthat they are still human.
They made a horrible, horrible,horrible mistake.
(24:23):
For years they lived in secretand in darkness, and that comes
with its own type of prison.
So it's not like they are goingto get away with that, but God
is going to deal with them onthat.
Right, god would deal with that.
And we have to realize thatpeople are human And we also
have to say oh, my goodness,lord, i am hurt, i am broken.
I am so broken I have suchchurch.
(24:46):
Hurt takes on so many variousforms.
Right, in this case it was theworship leader and one of the
choir members, or whatever.
In other cases it could bespiritual abuses by your pastor,
your reverend, your bishop oryour priest or something like
(25:08):
that, and to where they aresaying, you know well, god says
you have to do this, or God saysyou are not supposed to do that
, or you are not.
You know what I am saying Whenthey take the abuse to a level
that it is not supposed to betaken, and the same thing with
other congregants, you know, andthings like that.
So church hurt comes in variousforms.
(25:29):
Okay, and so all of us could besubject to it at one time or
another, and sometimes it hurtsand it cuts deep because we are
feeling like the people that wethought we knew the best, who
you know, we did Bible studywith for years, who we went to
church with for years, like howcould they hurt me like that,
how could they spread that lieabout me?
(25:50):
How could they, you know, cheaton their wife like that?
How could they make a pass atmy husband like that?
How could they treat my kidslike that?
You know it hurts and it cutsand it goes deep sometimes, but
we have to keep in mind that wehave to keep in mind that those
people are not representationsof God when they do that Their
(26:16):
actions.
If they're not God-like actions, they were not God-ordained.
It is as simple as that.
That just because they're badand Christians, the label
Christian pretty much means arepresentative of Christ.
But, as all of us Christiansknow, we are not always the best
representatives.
(26:37):
Right, you know at?
you know, at times, just watchsome people in traffic, you know
that have like the littlesymbol of the fish on a bumper,
you know, and they have ascripture.
But yet you see them in trafficand they're like swearing and
doing things.
You know at, people who aredoing erratic driving, you know.
(26:58):
So we're not always the bestrepresentatives.
We have to separate the peopleand what they do from the God
above, the God of love, the God,the most high God.
That is not him, that is them.
God has given people their ownhuman will.
They can do what they want todo, you know, and a lot of times
(27:18):
does God ordain that?
No, he's probably beenministering and talking to them
and to them about their behaviorand the seeing that they're
working in for a long time.
They just decided they didn'twant to give it up at whatever
particular moment in time, forwhatever reason.
That does no representation ofGod, that is them that made
their own choices to do that.
(27:39):
So you can't associate thatwith what those people do with
the God above, who is the God oflove, because the most awesome
thing about all of that is that,despite all of that betrayal,
despite the people they hurt,including their own families and
their spouses if they trulyrepent, god will welcome them
like none of that even happened.
(28:01):
And we got to remember that,because when it who knows, when
one day, we make that onemistake that everyone's going to
be looking at and be like, ohmy goodness, i just didn't think
that you would ever, you know,say that.
Do that be a part of that.
And so we want, have to, youknow, extend grace.
We have to extend mercy.
We have to pray for God to healthe hurt so that we can move on
(28:25):
, sometimes with them, sometimesnot, depending on if they're
repenting of their repented, ifthey were repenting hard of
their behavior, you know.
Then of course, you know, wecan bring them back into our
inner circle again If they'renot and they're like Yeah, no,
we haven't done a prayer, weplan on to keep having a prayer
and can you keep quiet about it,okay, well then you don't want
any part of that, now that youknow right, so you're not going
(28:48):
to be a part of that, can youstill pray for them and pray
that you know, god, that they dothe right thing Absolutely.
Do you still have to keepcompany with that?
No, as a matter of fact, youdon't want to, or things like
that.
We have to extend mercy, Wehave to send grace, we have to
extend forgiveness if they'rerepenting hard, but most of all,
(29:08):
we have got to ask God to healour heart, our broken heart
about it, because if not, theenemy ceases that opportunity to
pull you out of that church,away from the good godly friends
not the bad ones, the goodgodly friends and isolate you
(29:30):
And into thinking all of this isbogus, all of this is fake news
, all of those Christians,everything the pastor said in
church is the Bible even real,and everything else.
And then you're down a dark,dark, dark path that could
possibly last years and could,more importantly, cost you your
eternal soul.
The whole time, the demonicinfluencers that put all of that
(29:54):
in place and put all thosethoughts in your mind are
laughing.
They're like that was a loteasier than I thought it would
be, and now we got them and wegot our claws in them and he's
not even going to go back.
He's so disturbed, so upsetabout what happened that has
completely changed his path.
Now we got him in our eyes,sights, and then when he dies,
(30:18):
he's ours.
We have to pay attention tothat.
We have got to pay attention,we've got to start seeing things
with spiritual ears and eyesand not just our physical ones,
because just how God pursues usand he rules our heart to have a
relationship with him, you havesomeone else who is
manipulating and deceiving andbe guiling and bewitching and
(30:43):
doing all these other things tomake sure that you do not fall
in love with your Savior Andheaven forbid, have good
Christian, bible-believer,christians in your circle who
can help build you up when yougo down.
So we have got to be very, verycareful of that.
Hopefully that answered yourquestion, sherry.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Oh, perfectly, perfectly.
And I think the only thing thatI want to add to everything
that you said was thatforgiveness is so important.
We need to make sure that westay.
If we have a grudge that we'reholding, we need to make sure
that we stay.
Forgiven up.
Forgiven up because that is oneof the main ways, or that is
(31:31):
one of the sneaky ways, for theenemy to get into our soul and
to erode us with bitterness andhatred and hardness.
That's a way that God or notGod, sorry that's a way that the
enemy likes to harden ourhearts, and there's nothing
worse than having a hardenedheart as far as drawing us away
(31:54):
from God and making us thinkthat well, making us start to
believe the lies of the enemy.
So I guess I just want toreally encourage people that
church hurt is real.
Church hurt is hard, like yousaid, it's one of the hardest
(32:16):
ones to get through.
But you do not want to let theenemy get a foothold.
You don't want to let him get apathway into your soul by
holding a grudge, being bitteror not forgiving, choosing not
to forget, because, like yousaid, you're talking about your
(32:37):
eternal soul with this andthat's how serious it really is.
So if you want to talk to usmore about any of what we just
talked about today, if you wantto do it privately, you can give
us an email atcheeruppodcastcom.
Or if you want to start adiscussion on the Facebook group
(32:57):
, we would love to have youstart one and we would love to
join in.
All you have to do is go overto Facebook and look up Cheer Up
Podcasts.
As Kara has said multiple timesin the past, you do not need to
answer any questions.
There's no test involved.
You just click on it and you'rethere.
You belong Head over to Kara'swebsite, karaahuntcom or
(33:21):
shareysquadwellcom, and you cancheck out the different things
that we have there.
I hope that you will join us atour website, but, more
importantly, we hope that youwill come back next week.
We're going to be talking abouthuman sexuality.
It can be a hot topic at times,but come back next week and see
how we tackle it.
Have a great rest of your week.
(33:42):
I hope that you are trulyenjoying your summer days I hope
they're long and lazy to anextent and, more importantly,
that you feel blessed.
Have a great week.
We will see you next week.
Thanks for being here.
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