June 11, 2025 • 32 mins
What if your closest friends are the devil’s best tools?
In this episode, we dissect Letters 10 & 11 of The Screwtape Letters, where C.S. Lewis exposes:
Toxic friendships that seem harmless but erode your faith.
How Satan weaponizes challenges to make you doubt God’s goodness—not through crisis, but slow drips of compromise.
The “perilous slide”: Why sin rarely starts with a leap—just “reasonable” steps off God’s path.
Satan doesn’t need you to hate God—just to prioritize anything over Him.
“Do not be deceived: ‘Bad company ruins good morals.’” (1 Corinthians 15:33)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Hi and welcome to the Cheer Up Podcast.
I am your host, kara R Hunt,and with me is the beautifully
talented and skilled and lovelyauthor and speaker, sherry
Swalwell.
How are you doing today, sherry?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
I am doing great, except that I'm kind of sad that
it's the end of July already.
I keep telling myself I won'tbe and then I'm going to live
intentionally.
But as much as I love fall andI truly, truly, truly love fall
there's just something about theend of summer that just makes
me sad.
And you know what, sometimesyou just kind of embrace this
bad, and that's okay.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
You know what, and I look forward to the end of July
because, unlike you, who's anearly summer baby, my birthday
is in late summer, so that meansAugust is my entire birthday
month.
So when I see it end of July,I'm like, yay, birthday month.
(01:22):
So that is one thing I'vealways looked to about August,
and when I was a kid it workedout great because we didn't
start school back untilSeptember.
But nowadays I understand,they're starting a lot earlier
than that.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
You know, I think once we get past the school age,
I think I'm going to loveAugust and September even more.
But right now it's just thedreading getting up early and I
love pick up and drop off.
Don't get me wrong, it's to methat's one of my favorite times
of the day.
I think I just need to figureout a different schedule so I
(02:04):
have more wiggle room, and thenI think that I will love every
season just as much as the otherseasons.
So I just need to get wiggleroom in my schedule.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
There we go.
Oh yeah, I don't know what it'slike.
I'm just solving of my problems, right?
So, and I don't know, and it'sjust various stages of life,
right?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
It's just very stages .
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Yeah, you know, some have kids coming out of college,
others going into, you know,some finishing high school,
you're not going to do somethingelse.
And then there's those with theyounger ones.
You know where.
You just have to be a lot morehands-on.
So, but I thought I would dreadthe day my teens were sort of
driving, but you know what.
Oh, my goodness, it was such ablessing.
It was such a blessing, yep.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
I love that I have adult children that still live,
Some of them well.
They live in the housepart-time, not full-time,
necessarily.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Right.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
And I love.
I love being able to say, hey,can you help me out with this,
because there's just too manythings to do, too many, not
enough hours in the day, andit's nice to be able to depend
on somebody to just help outwhen I need to be four places at
once and I just can't, right,yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
And it just helps so much.
And welcome to the TorontoBlack Hat everyone.
And I am sure that there aresome of you out there in your
nation who probably can reallyreally connect with, like what
Sherry is saying, like in herstage of life.
Both of my sons are adults, soyou know, I no longer have to,
(03:43):
you know, deal with the schoolissue, but a lot of you might,
and you may, I'm pretty sure youcan connect with her so much on
that level of how much, howconsuming sometimes that can be,
especially now where it seemslike even nationwide, there's
just such a shortage of busdrivers that a lot more parents
are going to take their kids toschool, and so if you'd like to
(04:05):
chat with Sherry or talk withher more about that, just send
an email to the CheerUp Podcastat gmailcom that's
cheeruppodcastatgmailcom andalso send us an email if you
would like for us to start aTwitter space for the topics we
have been discussing the pasteight or nine weeks I believe so
(04:27):
now, and we have beendiscussing the book CS Lewis,
the school tape letters by CSLewis, l-e-w-i-s.
And if you have enjoyed it andyou're like, hey, I got some
insights and commentary, Ireally like to talk to you guys
more about this, like live, thenlet us know.
Also, send us an email atcheeruppodcast at gmailcom, and
(04:49):
if we get at least 10 peoplethat say yes, they would like to
do a Twitter space and gatherand talk you know everyone with
Sherry and I, then that isdefinitely something that we
will be able to do and that wewill put on our schedule.
So I just wanted to throw thatout there.
So, for those of you who mayjust not be joining for the
first time, for the past coupleof weeks and until the end of
(05:13):
September, we are doing a summerseries and it is called the
school tape letters series.
We are covering the topicsslash letters that are covered
in the book, excuse me, in thebook, the book the school tape
letters by CS Lewis.
(05:34):
Cs Lewis, l-e-w-i-s is theauthor.
The name of the book is theschool tape letters.
It is a piece of classicliterature.
It was written back in.
I published, I think, in 1941.
And we are just, but it coversso many topics that are so
relevant to everything that isgoing on today in our world, in
our society and in our culture.
(05:55):
If you would like to listen toOur introduction to this book
and all of the biblicalfoundations for the topics we
are discussing, because thescrew-taped letters deal with
demons and demonic activity andhow they affect the Christian,
(06:16):
and if you want to know moreinformation about demons, then
please listen to the episodethat was uploaded on June 7.
That is when we discussed thatand we gave tons of biblical
scriptures and we answeredquestions about demons and
everything else.
More importantly, we gave youthe scriptures for you to study
and everything so that you willbe able to delve more into the
(06:38):
world about demons and the like.
So, again, that was the June 7episode, and then the weeks
after that we covered letters 1through 9, I believe, and so in
this episode we are going tocover letters 10 and 11 and the
(07:00):
screw-taped letters by C S Lewis.
The book has 31 letters and sotoday we are covering letters 10
and 11.
And the topics that screw-tapedis talking about with his
nephew Wormwood are bad friendsand laughter With bad friends.
(07:23):
His uncle's screw-taped isexcited when his nephew Wormwood
shares with him that there aresome very crazy not crazy, but
what's the word I want to useImmoral, ethical type people,
(07:43):
but definitely not God-likepeople, that have entered his
Christian life.
Uncle Wormwood has beenassigned a Christian who is a
new believer, and uncle'sscrew-taped is mentoring him on
how to manipulate that believerand deceive him to where he
doesn't become a part of God'skingdom but a part of Satan's as
(08:06):
well.
What a part of Satan's is dead.
And so when uncle's screw-tapedfinds out, oh wow, he has these
new friends.
Huh, wow, that could be veryinteresting.
This could be effective,because this can help lead your
new Christian into having adouble life, you know, one at
church and one with his newfriends that are obviously not
(08:27):
going to church.
And he said this is great,because all mortals tend to turn
into the thing that they arepretending to be.
What is your experience of badfriends, sherry?
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Well, I am loving talking about this topic because
I just was having aconversation with somebody the
other day, so my son showed me.
One of my sons showed me avideo on YouTube or whatever, I
don't know.
I don't know where he found it,but anyway it was a clip from
an old TV show called John andKate Plus 8.
(09:05):
I love anything to do withbabies, anything to do with
family, anything to do with anyof that kind of stuff.
And back when my kids wereyounger, I used to go work out
downstairs in the basement and Iwould watch this show John and
Kate Plus 8.
Well, it was a great show.
They had eight kids.
Two were twins and six weresub-tuplets, and they were
babies.
(09:25):
And I thought, oh my gosh, Iwould love to have that
challenge to be able to, youknow, take care of all these
babies all the time, blah, blahblah.
But anyway, the point of theshow, or one of the things I
think that people were drawninto the show about, was Kate
was horrible.
She treated her husbandterribly Well.
This clip that my son showed mewas her and him sitting on the
(09:49):
couch being interviewed by theproducers and she turned to him
and she said will you stopbreathing?
You are breathing so loud.
And then she like makes thesefacial grimaces and she like
mocks him on TV.
I remember way back when.
I actually remember thatepisode.
I remember her doing it.
(10:10):
But I remember way back, whenGod, like, spoke to me.
He convicted me and he saidSherry, you are starting to act
like her.
You can either continue towatch this show and become Kate
to your family, or you can turnit off and say the person that
you truly are.
And it really, really shows me,highlighted to me in a very
(10:33):
real way, how susceptible I amto outside influences.
And ever since then I have usedthe scripture, philippians 418
or I believe it is, or 4-8,.
Whatever is true, whatever isholy, whatever is just, whatever
is admirable some these thingsand I therefore for myself.
(10:54):
My rule for me is I am verycareful about the music I listen
to.
The books that I read I willonly read Christian books, true
crime and memoirs and thenChristian nonfiction, and I do
that on purpose, because I needto guard my heart.
So I'm very careful with what Iwatch, who I follow on social
(11:16):
media I was following this.
He was a pastor or is currentlya pastor, I guess but he has
been doing some verycontroversial things and I have
had to check in my spirit that Ineed to distance myself from
him.
So I had to ask my kid how tounfollow, because I'm kind of
(11:37):
dumb when it comes to socialmedia, but I had to unfollow him
in order to stay pure.
I had to unfollow some otherpeople that were more secular,
but still they were toutingmessages that just were not
lining up with what I wanted tolive like, because I noticed
that I am a very I'm influencedeasily, more easily than I want
(12:01):
to be, and I want to make surethat I am living a genuine,
authentic life.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Absolutely, and it's so funny when you were
mentioning the Johnny and Kateissue because I remember too
when it first came out, and I'mlike this is so much fun, Like
all those beautiful babies youknow, and that's the draw, right
, you're like, oh my goodness,but how in the world are you
going to handle all those kids?
So you tune in and you look andyou're like doing it.
(12:29):
But that relationship was very,very toxic.
My reaction to her saying thatis a little bit different than
yours.
I'm more of an inquisitor typeperson.
So when she says something likeI'm like oh, that was me, like
that was hard, but what right?
But what would make her saysomething like that?
What is you know?
And I'm saying my mind is liketrying to self analyze or Kate
(12:50):
analyze, kate right, like youknow those types of things.
This don't happen, right, thosetype of things built up over
time for you to be able to saysomething like that.
So there was obviously anotherstory there and I think we need
to be that way with our friends,because when you constantly
have a friend and I think Iremember someone, maybe a couple
(13:11):
of years ago, mentioningsomething about a friend that
just constantly, one way oranother, put them down right,
and it's like it wasn't one time, you know, it wasn't like a sub
other tongue, even I don'tthink that really could happen
in a lot of cases regardingfriends, but it was just more of
(13:33):
like, and I guess it wasbecoming more all the time type
of thing.
You know, and I'm saying towhere it was just there, was I
like had something negative tosay, um, but something along
those lines that I can'tremember none of the exact
details right now, which isprobably a good thing, but we've
all probably.
(13:54):
Let me just sum it up by sayingthis way we probably all have
had a friend like that to, wherethey were really good and
brilliant first, but then maybeafter a year or two, they start
saying those night and meanthings to us, you know, and
we're like is that person goodfor me?
Like, do they really have mybest interest in mind?
And we have to evaluate theirrelationship.
And it's probably been friendsthat we've known for years that
(14:17):
may come to you and you knowthey may be into something that
may not necessarily be a sin,but it's too tempting for you,
right?
So it's, for instance, if I wasa struggling alcoholic and I
had friends who constantly lovedbeer and they brought beer
(14:37):
around me and wine, and they notonly brought it around me but
they were tempting me to takepart, okay, though that is kind
of like what screw tape istalking about Friends to where
you can be one place at churchand you're just kind of like, oh
hey, everything's good,everything's fine.
Then you hang out with thesefriends and you're you're giving
(14:58):
into the temptation tosomething that you know you have
had strong problems within thepast and have led you to do very
ungodly and immoral andunethical and sinful things.
And it is best for us to keepin mind that that is exactly
what the enemy wants to do.
He wants us to nourish thosetype of friendships, the bad
(15:20):
type of friendships, so that weourselves can get, can allow the
enemy's claws to get deeper anddeeper into our souls and our
spirit.
And letter 11 talks aboutlaughter, which ties in with the
bad friends part.
But you know he says thatthere's a way.
(15:42):
He just talks about laughterand he's talking about, you know
, there's a way to where you canuse this friend to have them,
you know, laugh at people and orthings and become a scoffer and
become mocker and ridiculepeople and scorn people because
of their beliefs, and which issomething that Uncle Scrutate
(16:07):
was pretty sure these newfriends will be able to help
nephew wormwood's new Christianpatient do and he's like you
know, yes, you know, we, youknow, get him into looking down
on people and having, um, uh,nose up in the air when it comes
to like certain people.
And you know they, just, youknow, become scoffers and
(16:32):
markers and ridiculers andscorners.
And you know, because ofsomeone's beliefs or the way
they look, or because the waythey don't look or they're not,
they're not, um, wealthy enoughor fashionable enough, or
they're not as good looking, oryou know they're too fat or too
big or too tall or too small.
(16:53):
And he's like, yes, encouragethis relationship, have your,
your Christian, human and uh,really fall in love with these
new groups of friends becausethey are going to help us secure
his path to hell.
Basically is what it wastalking about.
So, um it it, sherry, what doyou think about that?
And what Uncle Scrutate waspretty much telling Uncle
(17:15):
Wormwood is like keep thosefriends around.
That that you know cause you tolook down on others.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
I yeah, Um, one of the things that that I want to,
that I'm wondering if people arewhen they listened to the, to
our discussion.
When we say on the path to hell, if you're a born again
believer, then you're.
And by born again believer, byChrist follower, true Christ
follower, I mean someone who hasprayed the prayer, who has
(17:47):
submitted and surrendered theirlife to God and who wants to do
life God's way.
You have surrendered your will,your desires, your selfishness,
and you're saying not my willbut God's will.
So if you are a true born againbeliever, then you are, you're
(18:08):
saved and you are going toheaven.
Can Satan still tempt you?
Absolutely.
Can Satan still cause you tosin?
Can Satan still cause you tosin?
He can sure do everything inhis power to try to get you to
sin.
Are you going to be perfect?
Absolutely not.
But I just want to make surethat everybody understands that
(18:32):
if you are a born again believeralready, then your price has
been paid by Jesus Christ andGod sees our sin through the
saved and redeemed blood ofJesus.
So if you, if you pray thatprayer, have the reassurance
that you are going to heaven,but you also have the Holy
Spirit living inside of youworking, nudging, convicting you
(18:55):
to work on those differentareas of your life that need
work, and this is one of thoseareas that needs work.
If you are not, if you've neverprayed that prayer and you've
not surrendered your life to God, and you are on the path to
hell.
No matter how righteous or good, or how many great choices you
(19:16):
make, you're still a sinner, andsinners go to hell if they
don't submit and surrender theirlives to God.
So, having said all that, yes,I completely agree with you,
Kara, that it just keeps goingback to that slippery slope.
(19:36):
He just keeps.
I mean, we are going to betempted and he, he has enough
demons around us.
They can't hear our thoughts,so when we're thinking something
, he can't hear that.
But we, as humans, we live alifestyle that he can observe.
The demons can observe us, theydo observe us, and they're
(20:00):
pretty darn smart.
So they, they study us and theyfind our way.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
They've had thousands of years to perfect it.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Absolutely.
And they, they, they target ourweaknesses and when we're weak
and when we're emotionallydepleted.
And I mean society.
Well, satan has, has usedsociety for years and he has
gotten us to the place where,like I said, we don't rest
(20:28):
anymore.
We are always on the go.
So we're mentally, physically,emotionally, spiritually
exhausted, unless we areintentional to take care of our
bodies, take care of our minds,take care of our souls, um and
so, like you said, he's atthousands of years to perfect it
, and humans are, are prettypredictable.
So what, what?
(20:50):
For what?
He has like five differenttricks, but and I don't know
what they are, but he has likefor me, my weaknesses are, um,
my health, my family, Um, I usedto be gripped in fear.
He knew how to get me, and it'sonly through my relationship
(21:11):
with God, trusting God, learninghow to trust God, wanting to
trust God.
But he that that fear doesn'thave a hold on me like it used
to anymore.
So it all goes back to God isgreater.
God is greater than anythingthat Satan can give us.
But on our own, we will failevery single time.
(21:33):
With God and his strengths, wewill be more than conquerors.
So I guess I just wanted toreally encourage people along
those lines today, that I justdon't want anybody to think that
that you're going to hell ifyou slip up, but you're a
(21:54):
Christian.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
If you are a true Christ, you'll go to hell if you
let him pull him away from the,from your relationship with God
.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Right.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Right, yes, but if you're a true not strengthening
it, not strengthening it, butactually pull your weight from
it I'm sorry, go ahead and shareit.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
No, exactly.
So if you, if you are a trueChrist follower and you are
listening to the Holy Spirit andyou are keeping your, your
heart, soft and you are keepinggrowing.
If you because my pastor, healways says you are one step
away from drawing closer to Godand you're no sorry, you're one
(22:35):
choice away from growing closerto God and you're one choice
away from drifting further fromGod.
Every day we need to wake upwith the mindset of I am
choosing Christ, I am choosingGod, and I, this summer I don't
know like God gives me differentseasons and the season that I'm
in right now there are so manythings that I had been praying
(22:58):
for and so many things that I amwaiting to see God show up and
show off in my life and I havefaith that he's going to.
When I don't know how it'sgoing to look, I don't know,
probably very different thanwhat I'm imagining.
But I have come to theconclusion this summer and it
really brings me peace is that Ihave a choice, I can.
So let's take the whole foodthing, because that's an easy
(23:21):
one for me.
So well, I mean, it's astruggle for me, but it's an
easy example.
So I have let's just say I havea doughnut in front of me, I'm
already full, I've already eaten.
There's nothing wrong witheating a doughnut, except if I'm
eating it for the wrong reasons.
If I'm eating it to pacifymyself or soothe myself instead
of going to God, then yes,that's wrong.
(23:44):
But if I'm eating it becauseI'm hungry and I'm celebrating
something, there's nothing wrongwith a doughnut.
But I'm just using a doughnutas an example.
I would much rather choose God'sbest for my life, even if that
means saying no to that doughnut, which doughnuts for me are
like the epitome.
I love doughnuts.
Knowing that I'm in God's will,knowing that that's the best
(24:07):
for me, then choosing thatdoughnut and choosing what I
know is not the best for me ornot God's best for me, and I
think I really had to grow as aChristian in order to get to
that place.
And so let me translate that toother things.
Say I have a ministryopportunity and I am so excited
(24:28):
about it and I think that it'sgoing to be amazing.
But God says, sherry, I don'twant you to do that.
That's not my heart for you.
I want you to do this insteadof focusing on green.
I think that your ministry andyour personality is going to be
(24:53):
much better with black windows.
I would much rather pursue theblack windows, knowing that's
God's best yes for me, thanpursue the green windows,
because that's what I want andI'm more comfortable with the
color green than I am with thecolor black.
Does that make sense?
Like that is the kind ofrelationship that we should
(25:16):
strive for to stay off of thepre-slope and to continue to
grow our relationship closer toGod so that we hear his voice
louder than we hear the demon.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Or the scoffers, or the mockers, or the lagers
Agreed yes.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Agreed, yep.
Anything else that you want tosay before we wrap it up, kara?
Speaker 1 (25:43):
No, just well, you know what I always say no, jess,
right.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
So yeah, I guess I do .
Speaker 1 (25:50):
It just dawned on me how silly that sounded.
But just echoing everythingthat you have said and then just
adding on what Uncle Screwtapewas telling nephew Wormwood you
know, these friends are reallybad for him and they're going to
have him looking down on peopleand everything else.
They're going to encourage himto do all these other things and
(26:12):
mock people and stuff like that.
It feels good sometimes to lookdown on other people and it
gives you pleasure because youknow why.
Because you're not looking atyourself.
You're so busy looking at theflaws of everyone else, you're
not looking at yourself.
And that is one of the slipperyslopes that I really sure was
talking about.
We just got to be very, verycareful to avoid that, because
(26:35):
it can be slippery and it can bereal slippery and it can slide
you way down to a pit, to whereyou never, ever thought you'd be
.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Absolutely, absolutely, and I think that
none of us really all who areChrist followers, all who truly
love God and want to serve Himwith our whole heart, none of us
want to do that.
So I think that's why we haveto look at this, create a clean
heart, oh God, and renew a rightclear within me.
(27:05):
I think we need to constantlysearch me, oh God, and know my
ways, try me.
I think we need to constantlyhave that attitude of okay, lord
, what do you need to do today?
What do you need to work at inmy life?
And help me to be vulnerableand soft enough so that I'm
(27:31):
willing to do the work.
I'm willing to do the 10minutes of clean up and the 10
minutes of maintenance every day, instead of waiting until I
need to rent that dumpster.
It's more expensive, it'sharder, and life is just so much
better when we stay in tunewith Him.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
It truly is.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Next week we start August already.
Which happy birthday to you.
Not next week, but happybirthday August month.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
I'm going to stop this.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Our oldest was born in August too, so I do have
happy memories of August.
I wish that it just didn't goso fast.
It just seems to just fly.
But next week we're going totalk about nothing and personal
pleasure.
So yes, I did say nothing.
But then we're going to talkabout something, the something
of nothing and personal pleasure.
(28:25):
So do you need prayer orencouragement?
Head over to the Tira podcastat gmailcom and drop us an email
.
We love to pray with ourlisteners.
We love to make new friends.
We also head over to theFacebook group.
I've been forgetting to talkabout that.
That is Tira podcast onFacebook.
We love adding new members tothat.
You don't have to answer anyquestions.
(28:46):
You don't have to be approved.
Just jump on in and starttalking.
You can start your owndiscussions too.
Peace out.
We look forward to meeting youand getting to know you over
there as well.
Jesus told us these things.
I have spoken to you that in meyou may have to.
In the world you will havetribulations, but be of good
(29:07):
cheer, I have overcome the world.
You know, kara, I know that westarted this podcast two and a
half years ago to be anencouragement to other people,
but I have to tell you, beingreminded of that verse week
after week after week is anencouragement to me.
We can have good cheer, becausehe has already overcome the
(29:27):
world.
He has overcome each and everydecision I mean, sorry each and
every topic, each and everychapter that we've been talking
about this summer and he's goingto continue to overcome.
We in ourselves are powerless,but in him he's already won as
far as the any kind of superhero.
(29:47):
When my kids were little, Iused to always say don't worry,
the bad guys always lose, thegood guys always win.
Well, that's the way it is inlife too.
It looks right now like the badguys are winning, but the fight
is not over.
God wins in the end and we whoare his children win with him,
not in our own strength,definitely not in our own
(30:09):
strength, but definitely in hisstrength.
Head over to Kara's website,karaourfrontcom.
Check out all the greatest andgreatest new, wonderful things
over there, and head over to mywebsite, kariqwellwellcom.
If you are interested in growingyour relationship in your pace,
your time, I would encourageyou to check out the Jesus in
(30:31):
the Everyday Membership $9.99 amonth, nice and affordable, less
than well, way less than adollar a day.
I don't even know what it is.
I have to figure out my math.
I'm horrible with math.
I'll work on that, but check itout, because it's one way for
(30:53):
you to stay off of that slipperyslope.
It's one way for you to staysubmitted, have a soft heart and
growing that relationship withGod.
Nice and easy 10 minutes a daybut it keeps you in the Word, it
keeps you with your focus onthe Holy Spirit, on God, the
Father, on Jesus Christ, andthere's no place I would rather
(31:13):
be than with him front andcenter in my thoughts, in my
mind, and praising himthroughout the day.
And it doesn't have to getweird and it doesn't have to
look weird.
It's just natural and that'sthe cool thing about it is that
a relationship with God isnatural and it brings joy.
It brings the joy and the peaceand the hope that we're always
(31:35):
talking about.
Does that mean that every singleday we feel it?
When we're going through trialsand tribulations, you're lying,
yes, but there's also a time togrieve.
There's also a time to give ourcares over to God, and it's
okay to feel heavy and oppressedevery once in a while.
Give it over to him and he willreplace that with peace and joy
(31:59):
and hope, because our God, theCreator of the universe, loves
us so much he wants us to givehim every single care that we
have.
Thank you for listening, thankyou for being with us on this
journey through the Screwtapeletters, and again next week
we're going to talk aboutNothing and Personal Pleasure,
(32:23):
and I cannot wait for Kara and Ito continue that conversation
next week.
So have a great rest of yourweek.
This week it's just the Augustahead of time, and we will talk
to you next week.
Hi and welcome to the Cheer Up Podcast.
I am your host, kara R Hunt,and with me is the beautifully
talented and skilled and lovelyauthor and speaker, sherry
Swalwell.
How are you doing today, sherry?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
I am doing great, except that I'm kind of sad that
it's the end of July already.
I keep telling myself I won'tbe and then I'm going to live
intentionally.
But as much as I love fall andI truly, truly, truly love fall
there's just something about theend of summer that just makes
me sad.
And you know what, sometimesyou just kind of embrace this
bad, and that's okay.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
You know what, and I look forward to the end of July
because, unlike you, who's anearly summer baby, my birthday
is in late summer, so that meansAugust is my entire birthday
month.
So when I see it end of July,I'm like, yay, birthday month.
(01:22):
So that is one thing I'vealways looked to about August,
and when I was a kid it workedout great because we didn't
start school back untilSeptember.
But nowadays I understand,they're starting a lot earlier
than that.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
You know, I think once we get past the school age,
I think I'm going to loveAugust and September even more.
But right now it's just thedreading getting up early and I
love pick up and drop off.
Don't get me wrong, it's to methat's one of my favorite times
of the day.
I think I just need to figureout a different schedule so I
(02:04):
have more wiggle room, and thenI think that I will love every
season just as much as the otherseasons.
So I just need to get wiggleroom in my schedule.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
There we go.
Oh yeah, I don't know what it'slike.
I'm just solving of my problems, right?
So, and I don't know, and it'sjust various stages of life,
right?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
It's just very stages .
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Yeah, you know, some have kids coming out of college,
others going into, you know,some finishing high school,
you're not going to do somethingelse.
And then there's those with theyounger ones.
You know where.
You just have to be a lot morehands-on.
So, but I thought I would dreadthe day my teens were sort of
driving, but you know what.
Oh, my goodness, it was such ablessing.
It was such a blessing, yep.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
I love that I have adult children that still live,
Some of them well.
They live in the housepart-time, not full-time,
necessarily.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Right.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
And I love.
I love being able to say, hey,can you help me out with this,
because there's just too manythings to do, too many, not
enough hours in the day, andit's nice to be able to depend
on somebody to just help outwhen I need to be four places at
once and I just can't, right,yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
And it just helps so much.
And welcome to the TorontoBlack Hat everyone.
And I am sure that there aresome of you out there in your
nation who probably can reallyreally connect with, like what
Sherry is saying, like in herstage of life.
Both of my sons are adults, soyou know, I no longer have to,
(03:43):
you know, deal with the schoolissue, but a lot of you might,
and you may, I'm pretty sure youcan connect with her so much on
that level of how much, howconsuming sometimes that can be,
especially now where it seemslike even nationwide, there's
just such a shortage of busdrivers that a lot more parents
are going to take their kids toschool, and so if you'd like to
(04:05):
chat with Sherry or talk withher more about that, just send
an email to the CheerUp Podcastat gmailcom that's
cheeruppodcastatgmailcom andalso send us an email if you
would like for us to start aTwitter space for the topics we
have been discussing the pasteight or nine weeks I believe so
(04:27):
now, and we have beendiscussing the book CS Lewis,
the school tape letters by CSLewis, l-e-w-i-s.
And if you have enjoyed it andyou're like, hey, I got some
insights and commentary, Ireally like to talk to you guys
more about this, like live, thenlet us know.
Also, send us an email atcheeruppodcast at gmailcom, and
(04:49):
if we get at least 10 peoplethat say yes, they would like to
do a Twitter space and gatherand talk you know everyone with
Sherry and I, then that isdefinitely something that we
will be able to do and that wewill put on our schedule.
So I just wanted to throw thatout there.
So, for those of you who mayjust not be joining for the
first time, for the past coupleof weeks and until the end of
(05:13):
September, we are doing a summerseries and it is called the
school tape letters series.
We are covering the topicsslash letters that are covered
in the book, excuse me, in thebook, the book the school tape
letters by CS Lewis.
(05:34):
Cs Lewis, l-e-w-i-s is theauthor.
The name of the book is theschool tape letters.
It is a piece of classicliterature.
It was written back in.
I published, I think, in 1941.
And we are just, but it coversso many topics that are so
relevant to everything that isgoing on today in our world, in
our society and in our culture.
(05:55):
If you would like to listen toOur introduction to this book
and all of the biblicalfoundations for the topics we
are discussing, because thescrew-taped letters deal with
demons and demonic activity andhow they affect the Christian,
(06:16):
and if you want to know moreinformation about demons, then
please listen to the episodethat was uploaded on June 7.
That is when we discussed thatand we gave tons of biblical
scriptures and we answeredquestions about demons and
everything else.
More importantly, we gave youthe scriptures for you to study
and everything so that you willbe able to delve more into the
(06:38):
world about demons and the like.
So, again, that was the June 7episode, and then the weeks
after that we covered letters 1through 9, I believe, and so in
this episode we are going tocover letters 10 and 11 and the
(07:00):
screw-taped letters by C S Lewis.
The book has 31 letters and sotoday we are covering letters 10
and 11.
And the topics that screw-tapedis talking about with his
nephew Wormwood are bad friendsand laughter With bad friends.
(07:23):
His uncle's screw-taped isexcited when his nephew Wormwood
shares with him that there aresome very crazy not crazy, but
what's the word I want to useImmoral, ethical type people,
(07:43):
but definitely not God-likepeople, that have entered his
Christian life.
Uncle Wormwood has beenassigned a Christian who is a
new believer, and uncle'sscrew-taped is mentoring him on
how to manipulate that believerand deceive him to where he
doesn't become a part of God'skingdom but a part of Satan's as
(08:06):
well.
What a part of Satan's is dead.
And so when uncle's screw-tapedfinds out, oh wow, he has these
new friends.
Huh, wow, that could be veryinteresting.
This could be effective,because this can help lead your
new Christian into having adouble life, you know, one at
church and one with his newfriends that are obviously not
(08:27):
going to church.
And he said this is great,because all mortals tend to turn
into the thing that they arepretending to be.
What is your experience of badfriends, sherry?
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Well, I am loving talking about this topic because
I just was having aconversation with somebody the
other day, so my son showed me.
One of my sons showed me avideo on YouTube or whatever, I
don't know.
I don't know where he found it,but anyway it was a clip from
an old TV show called John andKate Plus 8.
(09:05):
I love anything to do withbabies, anything to do with
family, anything to do with anyof that kind of stuff.
And back when my kids wereyounger, I used to go work out
downstairs in the basement and Iwould watch this show John and
Kate Plus 8.
Well, it was a great show.
They had eight kids.
Two were twins and six weresub-tuplets, and they were
babies.
(09:25):
And I thought, oh my gosh, Iwould love to have that
challenge to be able to, youknow, take care of all these
babies all the time, blah, blahblah.
But anyway, the point of theshow, or one of the things I
think that people were drawninto the show about, was Kate
was horrible.
She treated her husbandterribly Well.
This clip that my son showed mewas her and him sitting on the
(09:49):
couch being interviewed by theproducers and she turned to him
and she said will you stopbreathing?
You are breathing so loud.
And then she like makes thesefacial grimaces and she like
mocks him on TV.
I remember way back when.
I actually remember thatepisode.
I remember her doing it.
(10:10):
But I remember way back, whenGod, like, spoke to me.
He convicted me and he saidSherry, you are starting to act
like her.
You can either continue towatch this show and become Kate
to your family, or you can turnit off and say the person that
you truly are.
And it really, really shows me,highlighted to me in a very
(10:33):
real way, how susceptible I amto outside influences.
And ever since then I have usedthe scripture, philippians 418
or I believe it is, or 4-8,.
Whatever is true, whatever isholy, whatever is just, whatever
is admirable some these thingsand I therefore for myself.
(10:54):
My rule for me is I am verycareful about the music I listen
to.
The books that I read I willonly read Christian books, true
crime and memoirs and thenChristian nonfiction, and I do
that on purpose, because I needto guard my heart.
So I'm very careful with what Iwatch, who I follow on social
(11:16):
media I was following this.
He was a pastor or is currentlya pastor, I guess but he has
been doing some verycontroversial things and I have
had to check in my spirit that Ineed to distance myself from
him.
So I had to ask my kid how tounfollow, because I'm kind of
(11:37):
dumb when it comes to socialmedia, but I had to unfollow him
in order to stay pure.
I had to unfollow some otherpeople that were more secular,
but still they were toutingmessages that just were not
lining up with what I wanted tolive like, because I noticed
that I am a very I'm influencedeasily, more easily than I want
(12:01):
to be, and I want to make surethat I am living a genuine,
authentic life.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Absolutely, and it's so funny when you were
mentioning the Johnny and Kateissue because I remember too
when it first came out, and I'mlike this is so much fun, Like
all those beautiful babies youknow, and that's the draw, right
, you're like, oh my goodness,but how in the world are you
going to handle all those kids?
So you tune in and you look andyou're like doing it.
(12:29):
But that relationship was very,very toxic.
My reaction to her saying thatis a little bit different than
yours.
I'm more of an inquisitor typeperson.
So when she says something likeI'm like oh, that was me, like
that was hard, but what right?
But what would make her saysomething like that?
What is you know?
And I'm saying my mind is liketrying to self analyze or Kate
(12:50):
analyze, kate right, like youknow those types of things.
This don't happen, right, thosetype of things built up over
time for you to be able to saysomething like that.
So there was obviously anotherstory there and I think we need
to be that way with our friends,because when you constantly
have a friend and I think Iremember someone, maybe a couple
(13:11):
of years ago, mentioningsomething about a friend that
just constantly, one way oranother, put them down right,
and it's like it wasn't one time, you know, it wasn't like a sub
other tongue, even I don'tthink that really could happen
in a lot of cases regardingfriends, but it was just more of
(13:33):
like, and I guess it wasbecoming more all the time type
of thing.
You know, and I'm saying towhere it was just there, was I
like had something negative tosay, um, but something along
those lines that I can'tremember none of the exact
details right now, which isprobably a good thing, but we've
all probably.
(13:54):
Let me just sum it up by sayingthis way we probably all have
had a friend like that to, wherethey were really good and
brilliant first, but then maybeafter a year or two, they start
saying those night and meanthings to us, you know, and
we're like is that person goodfor me?
Like, do they really have mybest interest in mind?
And we have to evaluate theirrelationship.
And it's probably been friendsthat we've known for years that
(14:17):
may come to you and you knowthey may be into something that
may not necessarily be a sin,but it's too tempting for you,
right?
So it's, for instance, if I wasa struggling alcoholic and I
had friends who constantly lovedbeer and they brought beer
(14:37):
around me and wine, and they notonly brought it around me but
they were tempting me to takepart, okay, though that is kind
of like what screw tape istalking about Friends to where
you can be one place at churchand you're just kind of like, oh
hey, everything's good,everything's fine.
Then you hang out with thesefriends and you're you're giving
(14:58):
into the temptation tosomething that you know you have
had strong problems within thepast and have led you to do very
ungodly and immoral andunethical and sinful things.
And it is best for us to keepin mind that that is exactly
what the enemy wants to do.
He wants us to nourish thosetype of friendships, the bad
(15:20):
type of friendships, so that weourselves can get, can allow the
enemy's claws to get deeper anddeeper into our souls and our
spirit.
And letter 11 talks aboutlaughter, which ties in with the
bad friends part.
But you know he says thatthere's a way.
(15:42):
He just talks about laughterand he's talking about, you know
, there's a way to where you canuse this friend to have them,
you know, laugh at people and orthings and become a scoffer and
become mocker and ridiculepeople and scorn people because
of their beliefs, and which issomething that Uncle Scrutate
(16:07):
was pretty sure these newfriends will be able to help
nephew wormwood's new Christianpatient do and he's like you
know, yes, you know, we, youknow, get him into looking down
on people and having, um, uh,nose up in the air when it comes
to like certain people.
And you know they, just, youknow, become scoffers and
(16:32):
markers and ridiculers andscorners.
And you know, because ofsomeone's beliefs or the way
they look, or because the waythey don't look or they're not,
they're not, um, wealthy enoughor fashionable enough, or
they're not as good looking, oryou know they're too fat or too
big or too tall or too small.
(16:53):
And he's like, yes, encouragethis relationship, have your,
your Christian, human and uh,really fall in love with these
new groups of friends becausethey are going to help us secure
his path to hell.
Basically is what it wastalking about.
So, um it it, sherry, what doyou think about that?
And what Uncle Scrutate waspretty much telling Uncle
(17:15):
Wormwood is like keep thosefriends around.
That that you know cause you tolook down on others.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
I yeah, Um, one of the things that that I want to,
that I'm wondering if people arewhen they listened to the, to
our discussion.
When we say on the path to hell, if you're a born again
believer, then you're.
And by born again believer, byChrist follower, true Christ
follower, I mean someone who hasprayed the prayer, who has
(17:47):
submitted and surrendered theirlife to God and who wants to do
life God's way.
You have surrendered your will,your desires, your selfishness,
and you're saying not my willbut God's will.
So if you are a true born againbeliever, then you are, you're
(18:08):
saved and you are going toheaven.
Can Satan still tempt you?
Absolutely.
Can Satan still cause you tosin?
Can Satan still cause you tosin?
He can sure do everything inhis power to try to get you to
sin.
Are you going to be perfect?
Absolutely not.
But I just want to make surethat everybody understands that
(18:32):
if you are a born again believeralready, then your price has
been paid by Jesus Christ andGod sees our sin through the
saved and redeemed blood ofJesus.
So if you, if you pray thatprayer, have the reassurance
that you are going to heaven,but you also have the Holy
Spirit living inside of youworking, nudging, convicting you
(18:55):
to work on those differentareas of your life that need
work, and this is one of thoseareas that needs work.
If you are not, if you've neverprayed that prayer and you've
not surrendered your life to God, and you are on the path to
hell.
No matter how righteous or good, or how many great choices you
(19:16):
make, you're still a sinner, andsinners go to hell if they
don't submit and surrender theirlives to God.
So, having said all that, yes,I completely agree with you,
Kara, that it just keeps goingback to that slippery slope.
(19:36):
He just keeps.
I mean, we are going to betempted and he, he has enough
demons around us.
They can't hear our thoughts,so when we're thinking something
, he can't hear that.
But we, as humans, we live alifestyle that he can observe.
The demons can observe us, theydo observe us, and they're
(20:00):
pretty darn smart.
So they, they study us and theyfind our way.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
They've had thousands of years to perfect it.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Absolutely.
And they, they, they target ourweaknesses and when we're weak
and when we're emotionallydepleted.
And I mean society.
Well, satan has, has usedsociety for years and he has
gotten us to the place where,like I said, we don't rest
(20:28):
anymore.
We are always on the go.
So we're mentally, physically,emotionally, spiritually
exhausted, unless we areintentional to take care of our
bodies, take care of our minds,take care of our souls, um and
so, like you said, he's atthousands of years to perfect it
, and humans are, are prettypredictable.
So what, what?
(20:50):
For what?
He has like five differenttricks, but and I don't know
what they are, but he has likefor me, my weaknesses are, um,
my health, my family, Um, I usedto be gripped in fear.
He knew how to get me, and it'sonly through my relationship
(21:11):
with God, trusting God, learninghow to trust God, wanting to
trust God.
But he that that fear doesn'thave a hold on me like it used
to anymore.
So it all goes back to God isgreater.
God is greater than anythingthat Satan can give us.
But on our own, we will failevery single time.
(21:33):
With God and his strengths, wewill be more than conquerors.
So I guess I just wanted toreally encourage people along
those lines today, that I justdon't want anybody to think that
that you're going to hell ifyou slip up, but you're a
(21:54):
Christian.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
If you are a true Christ, you'll go to hell if you
let him pull him away from the,from your relationship with God
.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Right.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Right, yes, but if you're a true not strengthening
it, not strengthening it, butactually pull your weight from
it I'm sorry, go ahead and shareit.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
No, exactly.
So if you, if you are a trueChrist follower and you are
listening to the Holy Spirit andyou are keeping your, your
heart, soft and you are keepinggrowing.
If you because my pastor, healways says you are one step
away from drawing closer to Godand you're no sorry, you're one
(22:35):
choice away from growing closerto God and you're one choice
away from drifting further fromGod.
Every day we need to wake upwith the mindset of I am
choosing Christ, I am choosingGod, and I, this summer I don't
know like God gives me differentseasons and the season that I'm
in right now there are so manythings that I had been praying
(22:58):
for and so many things that I amwaiting to see God show up and
show off in my life and I havefaith that he's going to.
When I don't know how it'sgoing to look, I don't know,
probably very different thanwhat I'm imagining.
But I have come to theconclusion this summer and it
really brings me peace is that Ihave a choice, I can.
So let's take the whole foodthing, because that's an easy
(23:21):
one for me.
So well, I mean, it's astruggle for me, but it's an
easy example.
So I have let's just say I havea doughnut in front of me, I'm
already full, I've already eaten.
There's nothing wrong witheating a doughnut, except if I'm
eating it for the wrong reasons.
If I'm eating it to pacifymyself or soothe myself instead
of going to God, then yes,that's wrong.
(23:44):
But if I'm eating it becauseI'm hungry and I'm celebrating
something, there's nothing wrongwith a doughnut.
But I'm just using a doughnutas an example.
I would much rather choose God'sbest for my life, even if that
means saying no to that doughnut, which doughnuts for me are
like the epitome.
I love doughnuts.
Knowing that I'm in God's will,knowing that that's the best
(24:07):
for me, then choosing thatdoughnut and choosing what I
know is not the best for me ornot God's best for me, and I
think I really had to grow as aChristian in order to get to
that place.
And so let me translate that toother things.
Say I have a ministryopportunity and I am so excited
(24:28):
about it and I think that it'sgoing to be amazing.
But God says, sherry, I don'twant you to do that.
That's not my heart for you.
I want you to do this insteadof focusing on green.
I think that your ministry andyour personality is going to be
(24:53):
much better with black windows.
I would much rather pursue theblack windows, knowing that's
God's best yes for me, thanpursue the green windows,
because that's what I want andI'm more comfortable with the
color green than I am with thecolor black.
Does that make sense?
Like that is the kind ofrelationship that we should
(25:16):
strive for to stay off of thepre-slope and to continue to
grow our relationship closer toGod so that we hear his voice
louder than we hear the demon.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Or the scoffers, or the mockers, or the lagers
Agreed yes.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Agreed, yep.
Anything else that you want tosay before we wrap it up, kara?
Speaker 1 (25:43):
No, just well, you know what I always say no, jess,
right.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
So yeah, I guess I do .
Speaker 1 (25:50):
It just dawned on me how silly that sounded.
But just echoing everythingthat you have said and then just
adding on what Uncle Screwtapewas telling nephew Wormwood you
know, these friends are reallybad for him and they're going to
have him looking down on peopleand everything else.
They're going to encourage himto do all these other things and
(26:12):
mock people and stuff like that.
It feels good sometimes to lookdown on other people and it
gives you pleasure because youknow why.
Because you're not looking atyourself.
You're so busy looking at theflaws of everyone else, you're
not looking at yourself.
And that is one of the slipperyslopes that I really sure was
talking about.
We just got to be very, verycareful to avoid that, because
(26:35):
it can be slippery and it can bereal slippery and it can slide
you way down to a pit, to whereyou never, ever thought you'd be
.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Absolutely, absolutely, and I think that
none of us really all who areChrist followers, all who truly
love God and want to serve Himwith our whole heart, none of us
want to do that.
So I think that's why we haveto look at this, create a clean
heart, oh God, and renew a rightclear within me.
(27:05):
I think we need to constantlysearch me, oh God, and know my
ways, try me.
I think we need to constantlyhave that attitude of okay, lord
, what do you need to do today?
What do you need to work at inmy life?
And help me to be vulnerableand soft enough so that I'm
(27:31):
willing to do the work.
I'm willing to do the 10minutes of clean up and the 10
minutes of maintenance every day, instead of waiting until I
need to rent that dumpster.
It's more expensive, it'sharder, and life is just so much
better when we stay in tunewith Him.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
It truly is.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Next week we start August already.
Which happy birthday to you.
Not next week, but happybirthday August month.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
I'm going to stop this.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Our oldest was born in August too, so I do have
happy memories of August.
I wish that it just didn't goso fast.
It just seems to just fly.
But next week we're going totalk about nothing and personal
pleasure.
So yes, I did say nothing.
But then we're going to talkabout something, the something
of nothing and personal pleasure.
(28:25):
So do you need prayer orencouragement?
Head over to the Tira podcastat gmailcom and drop us an email
.
We love to pray with ourlisteners.
We love to make new friends.
We also head over to theFacebook group.
I've been forgetting to talkabout that.
That is Tira podcast onFacebook.
We love adding new members tothat.
You don't have to answer anyquestions.
(28:46):
You don't have to be approved.
Just jump on in and starttalking.
You can start your owndiscussions too.
Peace out.
We look forward to meeting youand getting to know you over
there as well.
Jesus told us these things.
I have spoken to you that in meyou may have to.
In the world you will havetribulations, but be of good
(29:07):
cheer, I have overcome the world.
You know, kara, I know that westarted this podcast two and a
half years ago to be anencouragement to other people,
but I have to tell you, beingreminded of that verse week
after week after week is anencouragement to me.
We can have good cheer, becausehe has already overcome the
(29:27):
world.
He has overcome each and everydecision I mean, sorry each and
every topic, each and everychapter that we've been talking
about this summer and he's goingto continue to overcome.
We in ourselves are powerless,but in him he's already won as
far as the any kind of superhero.
(29:47):
When my kids were little, Iused to always say don't worry,
the bad guys always lose, thegood guys always win.
Well, that's the way it is inlife too.
It looks right now like the badguys are winning, but the fight
is not over.
God wins in the end and we whoare his children win with him,
not in our own strength,definitely not in our own
(30:09):
strength, but definitely in hisstrength.
Head over to Kara's website,karaourfrontcom.
Check out all the greatest andgreatest new, wonderful things
over there, and head over to mywebsite, kariqwellwellcom.
If you are interested in growingyour relationship in your pace,
your time, I would encourageyou to check out the Jesus in
(30:31):
the Everyday Membership $9.99 amonth, nice and affordable, less
than well, way less than adollar a day.
I don't even know what it is.
I have to figure out my math.
I'm horrible with math.
I'll work on that, but check itout, because it's one way for
(30:53):
you to stay off of that slipperyslope.
It's one way for you to staysubmitted, have a soft heart and
growing that relationship withGod.
Nice and easy 10 minutes a daybut it keeps you in the Word, it
keeps you with your focus onthe Holy Spirit, on God, the
Father, on Jesus Christ, andthere's no place I would rather
(31:13):
be than with him front andcenter in my thoughts, in my
mind, and praising himthroughout the day.
And it doesn't have to getweird and it doesn't have to
look weird.
It's just natural and that'sthe cool thing about it is that
a relationship with God isnatural and it brings joy.
It brings the joy and the peaceand the hope that we're always
(31:35):
talking about.
Does that mean that every singleday we feel it?
When we're going through trialsand tribulations, you're lying,
yes, but there's also a time togrieve.
There's also a time to give ourcares over to God, and it's
okay to feel heavy and oppressedevery once in a while.
Give it over to him and he willreplace that with peace and joy
(31:59):
and hope, because our God, theCreator of the universe, loves
us so much he wants us to givehim every single care that we
have.
Thank you for listening, thankyou for being with us on this
journey through the Screwtapeletters, and again next week
we're going to talk aboutNothing and Personal Pleasure,
(32:23):
and I cannot wait for Kara and Ito continue that conversation
next week.
So have a great rest of yourweek.
This week it's just the Augustahead of time, and we will talk
to you next week.
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