July 16, 2025 • 32 mins
In this encore episode of C.S. Lewis's, Screwtape Letters, we discuss letters 20 & 21, where the head demon Screwtape schools his nephew Wormwood on how to twist his humans “spare moments” into soul-snares—convince the human the schedule is his, and God's gentle interruptions will feel like theft. We unpack Screwtape's playbook against “time entitlement,” and ask the only question that matters: whose calendar are you keeping?
To listen to this episode, click or copy and paste the below link into your favorite browser -
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“Teach us to number our days, that we may gain a heart of wisdom.” — Psalm 90:12
For a richer understanding of demons and their relationship with humans, we recommend revisiting our April 23rd, 2025 episode, where we discuss, in depth, the Scriptures that covers those topics -
https://cheeruppodcast.buzzsprout.com/1633087/episodes/12990069-do-you-have-a-demon-assigned-to-you-an-encore-episode
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Hi and welcome to the Cheer Up Highcast.
I am your host, kara R Hunt,and with me is the beautiful and
talented Cheris Wah-wah.
How are you doing on thisbeautiful, beautiful day in the
Midwest, cheri?
Well, at least in my part ofthe Midwest.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I'm telling you, the allergies this year have just
really wreaked havoc.
But aside from that, I am doingfantastic, oh God is so good,
right, you know.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
And allergies, believe it or not, are just kind
of our body's way of justsaying you know, something is
bothering me, right, the pollenin the air or the air quality,
which, you know, recently hasnot been all that good because
(01:14):
of just different things goingon with wildfires and different
things like that.
It's just our body's just wayof saying, okay, something's not
quite right, but I'm gettingthere.
I'm getting there, something'sbothering me, something's
irritating me, but I'm going tomake it right, you know, and God
is just so good, you know, tobe there and to always be there
(01:36):
for us and offer us exactly whatwe need when we need it,
whether it's healing or whetherit's a word from God, or even if
it's a book.
And why are you talking about abook here?
Okay, what does that got to dowith anything?
That is because, for those ofyou who have been listening over
the past couple of months, youknow we are in almost not quite
(02:00):
the middle, but not quite theend, of our summer series.
In this summer we have beendiscussing one book and it is
called the Screwed Tape Lettersby CS Lewis, l-e-w-i-s.
And it is a piece of classicliterature and that was
originally written, I believe,in 1941.
(02:22):
I think it has been publishedother times as well, but the
original I believe was releasedwith originally published in
1941.
And the book is called theScrewed Tape Letters because it
is several letters, 31 of themto be exact, from screw tape,
(02:46):
who is a demon, to his nephewWormwood, who is a demon.
Screw tape is a demon in ahigher level of demon, in a
higher hierarchy of demonism, Iguess to say in hell.
And his nephew Wormwood is new,he is a novice, he is a young
(03:06):
demon and he is still trying tolearn the ropes.
And the book is called theScrewed Tape Letters because,
through these letters, uncleScrew Tape is trying to mentor
his nephew Wormwood on how tomanipulate, deceive and torment,
in other words, a new Christianthat he has been assigned to.
(03:31):
So, and in this case and I'mtrying to remember back to the
beginning of the book I do notbelieve the man was a Christian
when Wormwood was first assignedto him, but then he became a
Christian on Wormwood's watch,and the Uncle Screw Tape has not
been happy with any of hisdecisions on stopping that or
slowing that down or getting himto walk away from the Christian
(03:55):
faith at all.
So he's been writing theseletters and mentoring to him and
giving him tips and ideas onhow to do that.
So if you guys have beenlistening since the summer
series started, which was thefirst week of June, then most of
you have been following us upto this point.
But if you're new and you'rejust tuning in right now, we
(04:17):
highly encourage you, after youlisten to this episode, to go
back and listen to the June 7thepisode.
It was the first episode in theScrew Tape series and the
reason we encourage you to goback there is because we not
only tell you why we're readingthe Screw Tape series, but we
also let you know the biblicaltruth, the scriptural truth, the
(04:38):
biblical foundation of demons,of what the Bible has to say
about demons.
Are demons real?
Can a Christian be possessed oroppressed by demons?
Are they real?
What is their purpose?
How did they happen?
How did they come about?
In that very first episode, wegive you a lot of the biblical
(05:00):
verses in there for you to go,study, talk about, share it,
follow with friends andeverything to give you a better
knowledge of the topics thatwe're discussing.
Regarding the Screw Tape letters, the book has 31 letters and so
far we have covered letters 1through 19.
So in today's episode we aregoing to be covering letters 20
(05:27):
and 21.
And I also want to add, forthose of you who have been
listening or just new listening,that if you guys would love to
have an open discussion on this,then let us know, send us a an
email at cheeruppodcast atgmailcom cheeruppodcast at
(05:50):
gmailcom, and let us know that,yesi would like to know, to talk
with you guys more about thistopic.
And when we get enough of thoseemails, with a minimum of 10
emails, we will open up aTwitter space.
So then you would not just haveto say here what Sherry and I
thought or about the topics ofthe letters that we are covering
(06:13):
.
We can also hear everyone who'slistening thoughts, but we
would like to have at least 10people before we open up a
Twitter space to do that.
And once we get enough peopleto open it up, we'll let
everybody know about the dateand times.
But again, if you're like, yeah, I got something I want to add,
or I got something I think youguys should, or that you missed
(06:35):
or you should have brought upwhen you were discussing this
particular letter from Screwtape.
So we would love to have thatinput.
We would love to have a liveaudio discussion about it.
So if you would like that too,like I said, just send
cheeruppodcast at gmailcom andemail let us know and we'll
compile the list and we'll belike okay, hey, on this date and
(06:56):
this time we're doing a liveTwitter space and we'll be able
to do that as well.
We still look forward tohearing your commentary, your
feedback and your thoughts, sowe're hoping that we definitely
hear from you guys soon.
Also, please don't forget tosubscribe to get emails for the
cheerup podcast and like itwherever it is available to do
(07:19):
so.
That just helps us in thealgorithm and that way, if you
enjoy listening to it, it'llhelp it pop up like in your
friends and other people'salgorithms as well.
So in letter 20, screwtape istalking about sexual taste, and
(07:40):
this is pretty much piggybackingoff of the previous letter we
discussed in the last episodeabout how he's using falling in
love, how he wants one word totempt his patient to they call
it patient in a book but totempt his Christian, his newly
assigned Christian human, totempt him to fall in love so
(08:03):
that he can fall into sexual sin.
And so, and he's kind of pickedthis is letter 20, kind of
piggybacks off of that when hefinds out that when one would
write him a letter and say, yeah, uncle, screwtape, I tried all
those things you suggested andguess what, this Christian is
(08:26):
not falling for it.
So he's like, and of courseScrewtape, as always, is angry
with his novice demon nephewWormwood, and he's like well,
can't you just do anything,right, you know?
So he said then, fine, we canget him to fornicate, we can get
(08:47):
him to sleep around, we can gethim to fall in love and be
tempted to do all of thosethings.
So now I'm going to write you aletter on how to, if he's
intent on finding a woman tomarry so that he don't fall into
sexual sin, then we're justgoing to lead him to the wrong
(09:09):
type of woman, you know.
And so that's basically whathe's doing.
And he's like I, wormwood, Iwant you to put women in his
path.
That looks very, very good tohim and physically, he's
physically attracted to them.
(09:30):
They have pretty eyes, gorgeoushair, wonderful smile, all of
that jazz, maybe a beautifulfigure.
And he said, but they're, theyneed to be completely not godly.
And Tim, tim um, to, to, to dothings and go astray.
So when they get married theywon't be a strong unit, but they
(09:53):
will be unequally yoke.
Like he will be wanting to goto church and then she'll be
wanting, she'll be wanting tosleep.
Being because you know shepersuaded him to go to a club
the night, the night previouslyis basically summing up what he
is saying.
Given examples of what he issaying, what do you think of
those, of that ploy of the enemySherry?
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Well again, I think, with society today,
unfortunately, that seems to bewhat society practices and
preaches to if it feels good, doit.
There are so many men, though Iwant to give a shout out to men
nowadays, I think.
I think in general, men arekind of put down and men are not
(10:39):
appreciated for who they areand all that they do.
And I think that when you havea man who is truly seeking God's
best and seeking God's will forhis life, it is exemplary.
It is the exact opposite of thedo what feels good message that
(11:01):
everybody is given.
And it is a breath of fresh airand a drink of cool water.
As women, we have our parts toplay.
We are to be growing ourrelationship with God just as
much as the men are.
But when you have two peoplewho are truly seeking after
(11:23):
God's heart and seekingrendering their lives to God,
wow, what a relationship that isgrown and what a beautiful
testimony to not perfection byany means not perfection, but
just the gift and the beauty ofseeing all that God can do and
(11:48):
how he can then help youinfluence other people to keep
that going, instead of theselfishness that we see so
prevalently.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Absolutely, and it is very powerful, which is why the
enemy does not want it tohappen.
Exactly.
Which is exactly why the enemydoes not want it to happen?
Because if you are a powerfulChristian alone, imagine how
much stronger and the wondersand amazing things you could do
(12:21):
for God when you have someone byyour side who is just like you
as far as zeal for the Lord anddoing the work of the kingdom.
So he wants to thwart that atany possible chance that he can
get.
In this case it's not that careof.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
But when you're tempted, that person can then
help you get back on track, andthey can.
You can help them get back ontrack.
So it's not only the deal andthe passion for God, but it
helps with the temptation partalso.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Absolutely, Because you could be tempted to say
something like you know whywe're so, I'm bored, let's go to
something different andexciting, you know, and
adventurous, something we'venever done before.
And even though it may notquote unquote be sinful, it can
lead to a life of sin and youneed that wise person on the
side of you going.
Yeah, no.
You know and yeah, this is why,you know, and everything else,
(13:19):
we can still find something youwant to venture.
Let's, let's, let's, let's,let's.
Uh, look a vacation to go climbMount Everest or something
right?
You know, but, uh, not what youwere thinking, um, because that
could just lead to other issuesfor us down the road.
And so you need someone soawesome to have someone like
(13:40):
that.
And you're like, yeah, no, whatwas I thinking?
Right, you know, um, and thingslike that.
And so sometimes we do havethose people, um, in our lives.
And if you're a good Christianman that is listening right now,
um, and you have someone inyour life, a female that you're
very interested in, and you'rejust like, I don't know, should
(14:01):
I take this to the next level?
Should I ask them to marry me?
But there's something in youthat's saying no, um, I just
want to urge you to go to thebook of judges.
Correct me if I'm wrong on this, sherry.
Go back to the.
Uh, go read in the book ofjudges the story of Samson and
Delilah.
Samson Yep, okay, yes, yes,samson was a godly man whose
(14:27):
heart was for the Lord, and hejust really wanted to do the
right thing, but his weaknesswas a woman named Delilah, and
he should have broken off thatrelationship way before he
eventually wait, he never did.
She was one who broke it offwhen she betrayed him.
(14:48):
Right and she was, yeah, and shebetrayed him big time.
For those of you have not readthe story of Samson and Delilah,
I don't want to run the endingfor you so much, but because he
didn't break off therelationship when he should have
way before it got to the levelthat it did, that not only did
(15:09):
Delilah betray him, she wasworking against him the whole
time.
She never had his best interestat heart.
She always she always plannedto betray him and ended up
leading to their deaths at leastSamson's death and a whole
bunch of other people's deaths.
I don't think the Bible makesclear the Delilah was killed
(15:33):
during what ended up happeningafterwards.
But I say that because it's avery cautionary tale about when
the Holy Spirit has nudged youand saying this person is not
for you, that you really need tolisten to that.
You really need to listen to itbecause there's a reason God
(15:54):
does not want you to go into adeeper relationship with that
person or even to let thatrelationship continue, because,
even though you're in love withthem and you can't see past them
and everything else and youknow that this person is good
for you, but you really can'thelp yourself, you have to
remember they may have acompletely different agenda, a
completely different ulteriormotive.
(16:14):
Even though you're on anassignment from God for what you
want him, god wants you, to doin his life, they could be on an
assignment from the enemy, fromSatan himself, to completely
ruin and destroy you.
So I just wanted to just putthat out there and for everyone
(16:35):
to go.
Read the book of Judges.
Go to the book of Judges and inthe Bible and read that
cautionary tale there, andthat's that's.
That's anything you want to addto that, sherry.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
The only thing I want to add is that a wise friend
made the comment yesterday thatit, in it, just reiterates what
you just said about the healing,the Holy Spirit voice, that,
the Holy Spirit.
We need to keep in mind thatthe Holy Spirit knows the big
picture and sees further downthe road than we ever will.
So if he loves us enough to say, hey, I don't think you want to
(17:12):
do that, we really need to payattention because he's not doing
it to again restrict our fun,like we've been talking about.
He's doing it because of howmuch he loves us.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Absolutely.
And it all goes back to love,true love, true love and how
much God truly loves us.
And moving on to the let to theother letter we're going to
cover in this episode beforewrapping up is letter 21 and the
screw tape letters.
And we're.
(17:44):
This one pretty much just talksabout entitlement and screw tape
pretty much tries to tellWormwood, they try to tell, let
him know how humans, you knowpretty much, think that he is a
very interesting take from onedemon to another.
So screw tape, uncle Screwtape,is telling his demon nephew
(18:09):
Wormwood.
He's in this letter.
He's writing how Christians andpeople as a whole are entitled,
and especially time.
And he's talking about theyalways think that you know they
have 24 hours in a day like itactually belongs to them.
(18:29):
That is such entitlement theday, those 24 hours do not
belong to them.
And he's pretty much tellingWormwood to say and with
Christians God tries to, youknow they kind of walk and
understand that the day actuallybelongs, those 24 hours
actually belong to the Lord.
So be it.
(18:49):
Whatever happens, you knowhappens and everything else.
And he said with your Christian, we need to remind him and let
him not think that his 24 hoursare his right.
We have to remind him that whenhe's going to work, that out of
that 24 hour cash that he has,that at least eight of those are
(19:13):
being withdrawn from him due tohis job, you know.
And then if it's a Sunday, thenthat's at least two to three
hours that's also withdrawnagainst his account, not to
mention the time he has to spendwith family and friends and,
you know, on everything elsethat you know, take away from
his time that he thinks belongsto him or that he tries to
(19:36):
devote to God.
And he encourages Wormwood toemploy a strategy that would
encourage his Christian human tobecome so upset on the demands
that have been encroached uponhis time that he becomes angry,
exasperated and impatient.
(19:56):
What do you think of thatstrategy of the enemy, sherry?
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Well, I think you talked to the beginning of
August about how this classicnovel is timeless, and is that
the epitome of the 2000s?
We all feel like we're entitledto X, y and Z and it changes
and it doesn't matter, becauseif you feel it, you feel it, and
if you, if you think it, youthink it and wow, that's all I
(20:24):
can say is wow, like howtimeless is this novel?
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Absolutely right and it's like so what was relevant
back then, when he wrote it inthe 40s, Is there relevant today
?
How many years later?
I'm not going to do a quickmath because I don't want to
embarrass myself, but it's likeall these years later.
And it just goes to show youthat the enemy doesn't
(20:52):
necessarily have to come up withany new strategies, he just has
to implement the old ones overand over and, over and over and
over again.
And we all fall victim tosomething like this.
Just the other day, someone hadshared with me some news that I
was just not expecting.
As a matter of fact, it was, itwas okay.
So it was Tuesday, tuesdayevening or Tuesday afternoon,
(21:19):
and so one was like hey,tomorrow, this, this, this, this
and this has got to happen.
And I'm like, hold on, wait aminute.
Nope, that is not how I plannedmy Wednesday to go.
So pretty much kind of likewhat he was, you know, talking
about the letter.
I'm like, no, I got thisparticular thing that I have to
get done early in the morning onWednesday, and then I have this
(21:42):
thing and I got the whole dayplanned out and I do not have
time for that.
Well, the thing ended up havingto have to happen, so I had to
completely readjust my scheduleand I got very upset about that,
angry.
And then I just remember andI'm so glad for God, this is how
much he loves.
He loves us.
I just remember, I rememberbeing so upset about it, like,
(22:03):
well, there goes my whole dayand everything that I planned
that that means on Saturday I'mgoing to have to make up for,
which I really didn't want to do, and it was like I started to
feel myself become very angryand impatient about it and I
some of my, my excuse me, mythree favorite words when I feel
(22:24):
myself getting very upset andabout to go to the next level of
angry is Jesus, jesus, jesus.
I love doing that because itgets my focus off of me and what
I've had planned for my day andhow I want it my day to go, and
back onto Jesus, jesus, jesus.
And it kept, it keeps my mindcentered on okay, lord, here it
(22:48):
is I, and what good is it goingto do me to get up all upset
about it?
Anyway, it has to be done.
You know right, and I don'tknow.
The amazing thing about that waslike, maybe less than an hour
later, I have such a piece aboutit, I had such a piece about it
and it was like and yesterday,the yesterday, uh, morning and
(23:13):
afternoon, um ended up going alot smoother than I thought it
would, even all of us havingthat unexpected thing happen.
That took out a huge chunk oftime and I just was like, okay,
I'm just going to get up early,still try to get down what I
need to get done, even thoughit's going to still be dark
outside and the moon is out.
I'm still just going to do thatso I don't lose too much ground
(23:36):
.
You know what I was planning todo and the end just do it.
And it all went smoothly andeverything else.
God helped me change myperspective on it and and help
me recognize like it's it'sgoing to happen.
Okay, so why are you getting soupset about it?
And besides, how do you notknow that this is part of my
plan all along?
(23:56):
This could be a divineinterruption and it just
completely changed myperspective.
Has that ever happened to you,sherry?
Speaker 2 (24:03):
He has been working with me on that for the last
well, for years, but for thelast year, the last six months,
I can say that he has honestly,really, really helped me in that
, as far as when interruptionscome and I get mad, just like
you, I sit there and I say okay,God, I'm giving it over to you.
(24:26):
I'm not, I'm not thrilled withthis, but I'm getting over to
you and I'm trusting you with myschedule.
I'm trusting you know what Ineed to get done, you know what
needs to happen, you know what'sa non-negotiable for me.
I'm just trusting you.
And nine times no, 10 times outof 10, he knocked it out of the
ballpark and he and I shouldn'tbe amazed anymore.
(24:49):
In fact, I'm getting right.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Why are we still amazed?
We're going to ask.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
And I'm getting to the point where I'm like okay,
god, this is yours.
And in fact, I saw something onsocial media, and I don't
remember what it was Probably aFacebook reel or something but I
I saw something and I thought.
I don't remember, I wanted towrite the wording down because I
didn't and I wish I had butsomething along the lines of
this this person their kid, camehome drunk, and that's not the
(25:18):
point of the story, but theirkid came home drunk and they
didn't know what to do about it,and so instead they just looked
up to the ceiling and they saidokay, god, you get to take care
of this impossible situation.
I'm going to bed.
And the whole point of it wasokay, give it over to God,
because he's someone that hasthe answers.
Anyway, you don't need to loseeven a lick of sleep because
(25:41):
he's going to take care of it.
So, whether it's a drunk childthat you don't know how to
handle, whether it's a schedulethat got interrupted and you
don't know how you're going tofit everything in, whether it's
a cancer diagnosis, whether it'sa unexpected death, whatever it
is, god got it, and when wefigure that out and when we hand
(26:02):
it over to him, the sooner wedo that.
Like you said, the peace isthere.
Despite, like, all the reasonsof why you shouldn't have peace,
you still have it anyway.
It's that unwavering,unexplainable peace that God's
got this.
He's not going to let us go andall we have to do is sit back
and say okay, god, have fun withthis impossible situation.
(26:25):
I'm going to bed.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
And just hand it over to him.
And it's like because why, I'msitting here and I, in a way,
I'm kind of frustrated yetastonished at myself, like why
did I let myself get that angry,you know, or upset, getting
ready to go to angry, you know,which would lead to ranting and
other people have nothing to dowith it, by the way, you know
(26:52):
and everything else and I'm likewhy did I just let myself get
that upset?
I'm just so glad because in thepast because, like you, sherry,
the Lord has been dealing withme for quite a long time, years
and in the past I used to letthat anger just stir and stir
and stir and stir and stir, andeven after the incident happened
(27:13):
or the interruption ratherhappened, I'll still be mad
about it.
Well, if this hadn't happened,then I would have been able to
get this done, I would have beenable to do that, and it just
would have been discontent forthe next two to three days.
And now I'm so glad that heloves me enough that he's been
patient enough to just give meto the point to where, within
minutes, he's like Kara, whatare you doing?
(27:35):
Why are you getting so upset?
And I, which is like awakeningme to like, okay, yeah, hold on,
wait a minute, why am I?
Okay, lord, help me, help me tocalm down.
And Jesus, jesus, jesus.
He's gotten it to where it tookme a being so angry to our last
shout at other people, sameother people, for something that
(27:56):
they had no control over, andthen be a discontent for the
next couple of days because I'mlike, oh well, if it wasn't for
this get interrupted and this,this and that, and he's got me
to the point to where, likewithin minutes, he's getting me
to recognize it and to turn itover to him.
And that is how much he lovesus, amen.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
And on that I think that we are going to let people
think about that truth.
Next week, come back.
We're going to talk aboutChristian life and historical
Jesus.
Jesus himself said in John 1633, these things.
I have spoken to you, that inme you may have peace In this
(28:38):
world.
You will have tribulation, butbe of good cheer, I have
overcome the world.
I just absolutely love that andI can't read that without just
feeling God's overwhelming lovefor us over and over and over.
I am so glad that you're here.
Care is so glad that you'rehere.
If you have a question or needprayer or want encouragement,
(29:01):
head over to the Tira podcast atgmailcom and drop us a line.
We love to hear from ourlisteners.
We love to hear from newlisteners.
We hope that you're reallyenjoying the screw tape letters
that we've been working on thissummer and that are going into
September.
And if you want to join aTwitter, tell me again.
(29:22):
I am so sorry.
Twitter space.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
There we go.
It's called a Twitter space.
It's I think it's fairly newwithin the past couple of months
and it's just live audio, withpeople all getting together to
talk about one topic.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
So join us, or if you're interested in joining us
on a Twitter space, then emailus and let us know, or start a
conversation in the Facebook orthe Cheer Up Facebook Cheer Up
Podcast Facebook group.
There we go.
My words are not coming.
Maybe I need another dose ofcoffee this morning, Kara.
I don't know, but we would loveto hear from you, because if you
(29:59):
guys are interested and there'senough of you, then we would be
interested in doing that too.
I've always wanted to be a partof a book club.
This kind of sounds like, orfeels like, a book club to me,
so I think it would be awesome,but we need more people than
just Kara and I, because Karaand I do this every week.
So Kara's website,karaarchunkcom, or head over to
(30:22):
my website, charryslawlcom, andthere are lots of resources that
will help you grow yourrelationship with God, that will
point you to the one who hasall the answers and who gives us
that unwavering piece that wetalk about, the unending joy
that we talk about, the spite orinsight of our circumstances,
(30:42):
not because of our circumstances.
God is so amazing, and I hopethat you hear the joy and the
love that we have for himthrough our words every week,
through our tone, through ourvoice, because there is just
nothing greater than being achild of God.
And if that is something thatyou're interested in, something
that God, the Holy Spirit, hasbeen nudging your heart about,
(31:04):
and you want to say that prayer,romans 10-9 tells us that when
we speak it and believe it thatwe will be saved.
So I invite you to join me inthis prayer.
If that is something that Godhas been nudging you about, that
you want to start thatrelationship with God, that you
might not completely understandwhat it is, but you know that
(31:28):
God wants you to do it, justrepeat after me oh Heavenly
Father, I come to you in Jesus'name.
I believe you died on the crossand that you rose again and
you're seated on the throne.
Jesus, forgive me for all thatI have done wrong and I choose
to forgive all others.
(31:48):
Come into my life today andforever.
I am yours in Jesus' name.
Amen.
Welcome to the family.
We are so glad that you're hereand come back next week, and
we're going to continue the lastfour weeks to the last 10
(32:08):
chapters of the book.
Yes, I had to count, because mymath is not good either.
Have a great rest of your weekand we will talk to you next
week.
Bye-bye, konoka O ummari.
Hi and welcome to the Cheer Up Highcast.
I am your host, kara R Hunt,and with me is the beautiful and
talented Cheris Wah-wah.
How are you doing on thisbeautiful, beautiful day in the
Midwest, cheri?
Well, at least in my part ofthe Midwest.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I'm telling you, the allergies this year have just
really wreaked havoc.
But aside from that, I am doingfantastic, oh God is so good,
right, you know.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
And allergies, believe it or not, are just kind
of our body's way of justsaying you know, something is
bothering me, right, the pollenin the air or the air quality,
which, you know, recently hasnot been all that good because
(01:14):
of just different things goingon with wildfires and different
things like that.
It's just our body's just wayof saying, okay, something's not
quite right, but I'm gettingthere.
I'm getting there, something'sbothering me, something's
irritating me, but I'm going tomake it right, you know, and God
is just so good, you know, tobe there and to always be there
(01:36):
for us and offer us exactly whatwe need when we need it,
whether it's healing or whetherit's a word from God, or even if
it's a book.
And why are you talking about abook here?
Okay, what does that got to dowith anything?
That is because, for those ofyou who have been listening over
the past couple of months, youknow we are in almost not quite
(02:00):
the middle, but not quite theend, of our summer series.
In this summer we have beendiscussing one book and it is
called the Screwed Tape Lettersby CS Lewis, l-e-w-i-s.
And it is a piece of classicliterature and that was
originally written, I believe,in 1941.
(02:22):
I think it has been publishedother times as well, but the
original I believe was releasedwith originally published in
1941.
And the book is called theScrewed Tape Letters because it
is several letters, 31 of themto be exact, from screw tape,
(02:46):
who is a demon, to his nephewWormwood, who is a demon.
Screw tape is a demon in ahigher level of demon, in a
higher hierarchy of demonism, Iguess to say in hell.
And his nephew Wormwood is new,he is a novice, he is a young
(03:06):
demon and he is still trying tolearn the ropes.
And the book is called theScrewed Tape Letters because,
through these letters, uncleScrew Tape is trying to mentor
his nephew Wormwood on how tomanipulate, deceive and torment,
in other words, a new Christianthat he has been assigned to.
(03:31):
So, and in this case and I'mtrying to remember back to the
beginning of the book I do notbelieve the man was a Christian
when Wormwood was first assignedto him, but then he became a
Christian on Wormwood's watch,and the Uncle Screw Tape has not
been happy with any of hisdecisions on stopping that or
slowing that down or getting himto walk away from the Christian
(03:55):
faith at all.
So he's been writing theseletters and mentoring to him and
giving him tips and ideas onhow to do that.
So if you guys have beenlistening since the summer
series started, which was thefirst week of June, then most of
you have been following us upto this point.
But if you're new and you'rejust tuning in right now, we
(04:17):
highly encourage you, after youlisten to this episode, to go
back and listen to the June 7thepisode.
It was the first episode in theScrew Tape series and the
reason we encourage you to goback there is because we not
only tell you why we're readingthe Screw Tape series, but we
also let you know the biblicaltruth, the scriptural truth, the
(04:38):
biblical foundation of demons,of what the Bible has to say
about demons.
Are demons real?
Can a Christian be possessed oroppressed by demons?
Are they real?
What is their purpose?
How did they happen?
How did they come about?
In that very first episode, wegive you a lot of the biblical
(05:00):
verses in there for you to go,study, talk about, share it,
follow with friends andeverything to give you a better
knowledge of the topics thatwe're discussing.
Regarding the Screw Tape letters, the book has 31 letters and so
far we have covered letters 1through 19.
So in today's episode we aregoing to be covering letters 20
(05:27):
and 21.
And I also want to add, forthose of you who have been
listening or just new listening,that if you guys would love to
have an open discussion on this,then let us know, send us a an
email at cheeruppodcast atgmailcom cheeruppodcast at
(05:50):
gmailcom, and let us know that,yesi would like to know, to talk
with you guys more about thistopic.
And when we get enough of thoseemails, with a minimum of 10
emails, we will open up aTwitter space.
So then you would not just haveto say here what Sherry and I
thought or about the topics ofthe letters that we are covering
(06:13):
.
We can also hear everyone who'slistening thoughts, but we
would like to have at least 10people before we open up a
Twitter space to do that.
And once we get enough peopleto open it up, we'll let
everybody know about the dateand times.
But again, if you're like, yeah, I got something I want to add,
or I got something I think youguys should, or that you missed
(06:35):
or you should have brought upwhen you were discussing this
particular letter from Screwtape.
So we would love to have thatinput.
We would love to have a liveaudio discussion about it.
So if you would like that too,like I said, just send
cheeruppodcast at gmailcom andemail let us know and we'll
compile the list and we'll belike okay, hey, on this date and
(06:56):
this time we're doing a liveTwitter space and we'll be able
to do that as well.
We still look forward tohearing your commentary, your
feedback and your thoughts, sowe're hoping that we definitely
hear from you guys soon.
Also, please don't forget tosubscribe to get emails for the
cheerup podcast and like itwherever it is available to do
(07:19):
so.
That just helps us in thealgorithm and that way, if you
enjoy listening to it, it'llhelp it pop up like in your
friends and other people'salgorithms as well.
So in letter 20, screwtape istalking about sexual taste, and
(07:40):
this is pretty much piggybackingoff of the previous letter we
discussed in the last episodeabout how he's using falling in
love, how he wants one word totempt his patient to they call
it patient in a book but totempt his Christian, his newly
assigned Christian human, totempt him to fall in love so
(08:03):
that he can fall into sexual sin.
And so, and he's kind of pickedthis is letter 20, kind of
piggybacks off of that when hefinds out that when one would
write him a letter and say, yeah, uncle, screwtape, I tried all
those things you suggested andguess what, this Christian is
(08:26):
not falling for it.
So he's like, and of courseScrewtape, as always, is angry
with his novice demon nephewWormwood, and he's like well,
can't you just do anything,right, you know?
So he said then, fine, we canget him to fornicate, we can get
(08:47):
him to sleep around, we can gethim to fall in love and be
tempted to do all of thosethings.
So now I'm going to write you aletter on how to, if he's
intent on finding a woman tomarry so that he don't fall into
sexual sin, then we're justgoing to lead him to the wrong
(09:09):
type of woman, you know.
And so that's basically whathe's doing.
And he's like I, wormwood, Iwant you to put women in his
path.
That looks very, very good tohim and physically, he's
physically attracted to them.
(09:30):
They have pretty eyes, gorgeoushair, wonderful smile, all of
that jazz, maybe a beautifulfigure.
And he said, but they're, theyneed to be completely not godly.
And Tim, tim um, to, to, to dothings and go astray.
So when they get married theywon't be a strong unit, but they
(09:53):
will be unequally yoke.
Like he will be wanting to goto church and then she'll be
wanting, she'll be wanting tosleep.
Being because you know shepersuaded him to go to a club
the night, the night previouslyis basically summing up what he
is saying.
Given examples of what he issaying, what do you think of
those, of that ploy of the enemySherry?
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Well again, I think, with society today,
unfortunately, that seems to bewhat society practices and
preaches to if it feels good, doit.
There are so many men, though Iwant to give a shout out to men
nowadays, I think.
I think in general, men arekind of put down and men are not
(10:39):
appreciated for who they areand all that they do.
And I think that when you havea man who is truly seeking God's
best and seeking God's will forhis life, it is exemplary.
It is the exact opposite of thedo what feels good message that
(11:01):
everybody is given.
And it is a breath of fresh airand a drink of cool water.
As women, we have our parts toplay.
We are to be growing ourrelationship with God just as
much as the men are.
But when you have two peoplewho are truly seeking after
(11:23):
God's heart and seekingrendering their lives to God,
wow, what a relationship that isgrown and what a beautiful
testimony to not perfection byany means not perfection, but
just the gift and the beauty ofseeing all that God can do and
(11:48):
how he can then help youinfluence other people to keep
that going, instead of theselfishness that we see so
prevalently.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Absolutely, and it is very powerful, which is why the
enemy does not want it tohappen.
Exactly.
Which is exactly why the enemydoes not want it to happen?
Because if you are a powerfulChristian alone, imagine how
much stronger and the wondersand amazing things you could do
(12:21):
for God when you have someone byyour side who is just like you
as far as zeal for the Lord anddoing the work of the kingdom.
So he wants to thwart that atany possible chance that he can
get.
In this case it's not that careof.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
But when you're tempted, that person can then
help you get back on track, andthey can.
You can help them get back ontrack.
So it's not only the deal andthe passion for God, but it
helps with the temptation partalso.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Absolutely, Because you could be tempted to say
something like you know whywe're so, I'm bored, let's go to
something different andexciting, you know, and
adventurous, something we'venever done before.
And even though it may notquote unquote be sinful, it can
lead to a life of sin and youneed that wise person on the
side of you going.
Yeah, no.
You know and yeah, this is why,you know, and everything else,
(13:19):
we can still find something youwant to venture.
Let's, let's, let's, let's,let's.
Uh, look a vacation to go climbMount Everest or something
right?
You know, but, uh, not what youwere thinking, um, because that
could just lead to other issuesfor us down the road.
And so you need someone soawesome to have someone like
(13:40):
that.
And you're like, yeah, no, whatwas I thinking?
Right, you know, um, and thingslike that.
And so sometimes we do havethose people, um, in our lives.
And if you're a good Christianman that is listening right now,
um, and you have someone inyour life, a female that you're
very interested in, and you'rejust like, I don't know, should
(14:01):
I take this to the next level?
Should I ask them to marry me?
But there's something in youthat's saying no, um, I just
want to urge you to go to thebook of judges.
Correct me if I'm wrong on this, sherry.
Go back to the.
Uh, go read in the book ofjudges the story of Samson and
Delilah.
Samson Yep, okay, yes, yes,samson was a godly man whose
(14:27):
heart was for the Lord, and hejust really wanted to do the
right thing, but his weaknesswas a woman named Delilah, and
he should have broken off thatrelationship way before he
eventually wait, he never did.
She was one who broke it offwhen she betrayed him.
(14:48):
Right and she was, yeah, and shebetrayed him big time.
For those of you have not readthe story of Samson and Delilah,
I don't want to run the endingfor you so much, but because he
didn't break off therelationship when he should have
way before it got to the levelthat it did, that not only did
(15:09):
Delilah betray him, she wasworking against him the whole
time.
She never had his best interestat heart.
She always she always plannedto betray him and ended up
leading to their deaths at leastSamson's death and a whole
bunch of other people's deaths.
I don't think the Bible makesclear the Delilah was killed
(15:33):
during what ended up happeningafterwards.
But I say that because it's avery cautionary tale about when
the Holy Spirit has nudged youand saying this person is not
for you, that you really need tolisten to that.
You really need to listen to itbecause there's a reason God
(15:54):
does not want you to go into adeeper relationship with that
person or even to let thatrelationship continue, because,
even though you're in love withthem and you can't see past them
and everything else and youknow that this person is good
for you, but you really can'thelp yourself, you have to
remember they may have acompletely different agenda, a
completely different ulteriormotive.
(16:14):
Even though you're on anassignment from God for what you
want him, god wants you, to doin his life, they could be on an
assignment from the enemy, fromSatan himself, to completely
ruin and destroy you.
So I just wanted to just putthat out there and for everyone
(16:35):
to go.
Read the book of Judges.
Go to the book of Judges and inthe Bible and read that
cautionary tale there, andthat's that's.
That's anything you want to addto that, sherry.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
The only thing I want to add is that a wise friend
made the comment yesterday thatit, in it, just reiterates what
you just said about the healing,the Holy Spirit voice, that,
the Holy Spirit.
We need to keep in mind thatthe Holy Spirit knows the big
picture and sees further downthe road than we ever will.
So if he loves us enough to say, hey, I don't think you want to
(17:12):
do that, we really need to payattention because he's not doing
it to again restrict our fun,like we've been talking about.
He's doing it because of howmuch he loves us.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Absolutely.
And it all goes back to love,true love, true love and how
much God truly loves us.
And moving on to the let to theother letter we're going to
cover in this episode beforewrapping up is letter 21 and the
screw tape letters.
And we're.
(17:44):
This one pretty much just talksabout entitlement and screw tape
pretty much tries to tellWormwood, they try to tell, let
him know how humans, you knowpretty much, think that he is a
very interesting take from onedemon to another.
So screw tape, uncle Screwtape,is telling his demon nephew
(18:09):
Wormwood.
He's in this letter.
He's writing how Christians andpeople as a whole are entitled,
and especially time.
And he's talking about theyalways think that you know they
have 24 hours in a day like itactually belongs to them.
(18:29):
That is such entitlement theday, those 24 hours do not
belong to them.
And he's pretty much tellingWormwood to say and with
Christians God tries to, youknow they kind of walk and
understand that the day actuallybelongs, those 24 hours
actually belong to the Lord.
So be it.
(18:49):
Whatever happens, you knowhappens and everything else.
And he said with your Christian, we need to remind him and let
him not think that his 24 hoursare his right.
We have to remind him that whenhe's going to work, that out of
that 24 hour cash that he has,that at least eight of those are
(19:13):
being withdrawn from him due tohis job, you know.
And then if it's a Sunday, thenthat's at least two to three
hours that's also withdrawnagainst his account, not to
mention the time he has to spendwith family and friends and,
you know, on everything elsethat you know, take away from
his time that he thinks belongsto him or that he tries to
(19:36):
devote to God.
And he encourages Wormwood toemploy a strategy that would
encourage his Christian human tobecome so upset on the demands
that have been encroached uponhis time that he becomes angry,
exasperated and impatient.
(19:56):
What do you think of thatstrategy of the enemy, sherry?
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Well, I think you talked to the beginning of
August about how this classicnovel is timeless, and is that
the epitome of the 2000s?
We all feel like we're entitledto X, y and Z and it changes
and it doesn't matter, becauseif you feel it, you feel it, and
if you, if you think it, youthink it and wow, that's all I
(20:24):
can say is wow, like howtimeless is this novel?
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Absolutely right and it's like so what was relevant
back then, when he wrote it inthe 40s, Is there relevant today
?
How many years later?
I'm not going to do a quickmath because I don't want to
embarrass myself, but it's likeall these years later.
And it just goes to show youthat the enemy doesn't
(20:52):
necessarily have to come up withany new strategies, he just has
to implement the old ones overand over and, over and over and
over again.
And we all fall victim tosomething like this.
Just the other day, someone hadshared with me some news that I
was just not expecting.
As a matter of fact, it was, itwas okay.
So it was Tuesday, tuesdayevening or Tuesday afternoon,
(21:19):
and so one was like hey,tomorrow, this, this, this, this
and this has got to happen.
And I'm like, hold on, wait aminute.
Nope, that is not how I plannedmy Wednesday to go.
So pretty much kind of likewhat he was, you know, talking
about the letter.
I'm like, no, I got thisparticular thing that I have to
get done early in the morning onWednesday, and then I have this
(21:42):
thing and I got the whole dayplanned out and I do not have
time for that.
Well, the thing ended up havingto have to happen, so I had to
completely readjust my scheduleand I got very upset about that,
angry.
And then I just remember andI'm so glad for God, this is how
much he loves.
He loves us.
I just remember, I rememberbeing so upset about it, like,
(22:03):
well, there goes my whole dayand everything that I planned
that that means on Saturday I'mgoing to have to make up for,
which I really didn't want to do, and it was like I started to
feel myself become very angryand impatient about it and I
some of my, my excuse me, mythree favorite words when I feel
(22:24):
myself getting very upset andabout to go to the next level of
angry is Jesus, jesus, jesus.
I love doing that because itgets my focus off of me and what
I've had planned for my day andhow I want it my day to go, and
back onto Jesus, jesus, jesus.
And it kept, it keeps my mindcentered on okay, lord, here it
(22:48):
is I, and what good is it goingto do me to get up all upset
about it?
Anyway, it has to be done.
You know right, and I don'tknow.
The amazing thing about that waslike, maybe less than an hour
later, I have such a piece aboutit, I had such a piece about it
and it was like and yesterday,the yesterday, uh, morning and
(23:13):
afternoon, um ended up going alot smoother than I thought it
would, even all of us havingthat unexpected thing happen.
That took out a huge chunk oftime and I just was like, okay,
I'm just going to get up early,still try to get down what I
need to get done, even thoughit's going to still be dark
outside and the moon is out.
I'm still just going to do thatso I don't lose too much ground
(23:36):
.
You know what I was planning todo and the end just do it.
And it all went smoothly andeverything else.
God helped me change myperspective on it and and help
me recognize like it's it'sgoing to happen.
Okay, so why are you getting soupset about it?
And besides, how do you notknow that this is part of my
plan all along?
(23:56):
This could be a divineinterruption and it just
completely changed myperspective.
Has that ever happened to you,sherry?
Speaker 2 (24:03):
He has been working with me on that for the last
well, for years, but for thelast year, the last six months,
I can say that he has honestly,really, really helped me in that
, as far as when interruptionscome and I get mad, just like
you, I sit there and I say okay,God, I'm giving it over to you.
(24:26):
I'm not, I'm not thrilled withthis, but I'm getting over to
you and I'm trusting you with myschedule.
I'm trusting you know what Ineed to get done, you know what
needs to happen, you know what'sa non-negotiable for me.
I'm just trusting you.
And nine times no, 10 times outof 10, he knocked it out of the
ballpark and he and I shouldn'tbe amazed anymore.
(24:49):
In fact, I'm getting right.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Why are we still amazed?
We're going to ask.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
And I'm getting to the point where I'm like okay,
god, this is yours.
And in fact, I saw something onsocial media, and I don't
remember what it was Probably aFacebook reel or something but I
I saw something and I thought.
I don't remember, I wanted towrite the wording down because I
didn't and I wish I had butsomething along the lines of
this this person their kid, camehome drunk, and that's not the
(25:18):
point of the story, but theirkid came home drunk and they
didn't know what to do about it,and so instead they just looked
up to the ceiling and they saidokay, god, you get to take care
of this impossible situation.
I'm going to bed.
And the whole point of it wasokay, give it over to God,
because he's someone that hasthe answers.
Anyway, you don't need to loseeven a lick of sleep because
(25:41):
he's going to take care of it.
So, whether it's a drunk childthat you don't know how to
handle, whether it's a schedulethat got interrupted and you
don't know how you're going tofit everything in, whether it's
a cancer diagnosis, whether it'sa unexpected death, whatever it
is, god got it, and when wefigure that out and when we hand
(26:02):
it over to him, the sooner wedo that.
Like you said, the peace isthere.
Despite, like, all the reasonsof why you shouldn't have peace,
you still have it anyway.
It's that unwavering,unexplainable peace that God's
got this.
He's not going to let us go andall we have to do is sit back
and say okay, god, have fun withthis impossible situation.
(26:25):
I'm going to bed.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
And just hand it over to him.
And it's like because why, I'msitting here and I, in a way,
I'm kind of frustrated yetastonished at myself, like why
did I let myself get that angry,you know, or upset, getting
ready to go to angry, you know,which would lead to ranting and
other people have nothing to dowith it, by the way, you know
(26:52):
and everything else and I'm likewhy did I just let myself get
that upset?
I'm just so glad because in thepast because, like you, sherry,
the Lord has been dealing withme for quite a long time, years
and in the past I used to letthat anger just stir and stir
and stir and stir and stir, andeven after the incident happened
(27:13):
or the interruption ratherhappened, I'll still be mad
about it.
Well, if this hadn't happened,then I would have been able to
get this done, I would have beenable to do that, and it just
would have been discontent forthe next two to three days.
And now I'm so glad that heloves me enough that he's been
patient enough to just give meto the point to where, within
minutes, he's like Kara, whatare you doing?
(27:35):
Why are you getting so upset?
And I, which is like awakeningme to like, okay, yeah, hold on,
wait a minute, why am I?
Okay, lord, help me, help me tocalm down.
And Jesus, jesus, jesus.
He's gotten it to where it tookme a being so angry to our last
shout at other people, sameother people, for something that
(27:56):
they had no control over, andthen be a discontent for the
next couple of days because I'mlike, oh well, if it wasn't for
this get interrupted and this,this and that, and he's got me
to the point to where, likewithin minutes, he's getting me
to recognize it and to turn itover to him.
And that is how much he lovesus, amen.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
And on that I think that we are going to let people
think about that truth.
Next week, come back.
We're going to talk aboutChristian life and historical
Jesus.
Jesus himself said in John 1633, these things.
I have spoken to you, that inme you may have peace In this
(28:38):
world.
You will have tribulation, butbe of good cheer, I have
overcome the world.
I just absolutely love that andI can't read that without just
feeling God's overwhelming lovefor us over and over and over.
I am so glad that you're here.
Care is so glad that you'rehere.
If you have a question or needprayer or want encouragement,
(29:01):
head over to the Tira podcast atgmailcom and drop us a line.
We love to hear from ourlisteners.
We love to hear from newlisteners.
We hope that you're reallyenjoying the screw tape letters
that we've been working on thissummer and that are going into
September.
And if you want to join aTwitter, tell me again.
(29:22):
I am so sorry.
Twitter space.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
There we go.
It's called a Twitter space.
It's I think it's fairly newwithin the past couple of months
and it's just live audio, withpeople all getting together to
talk about one topic.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
So join us, or if you're interested in joining us
on a Twitter space, then emailus and let us know, or start a
conversation in the Facebook orthe Cheer Up Facebook Cheer Up
Podcast Facebook group.
There we go.
My words are not coming.
Maybe I need another dose ofcoffee this morning, Kara.
I don't know, but we would loveto hear from you, because if you
(29:59):
guys are interested and there'senough of you, then we would be
interested in doing that too.
I've always wanted to be a partof a book club.
This kind of sounds like, orfeels like, a book club to me,
so I think it would be awesome,but we need more people than
just Kara and I, because Karaand I do this every week.
So Kara's website,karaarchunkcom, or head over to
(30:22):
my website, charryslawlcom, andthere are lots of resources that
will help you grow yourrelationship with God, that will
point you to the one who hasall the answers and who gives us
that unwavering piece that wetalk about, the unending joy
that we talk about, the spite orinsight of our circumstances,
(30:42):
not because of our circumstances.
God is so amazing, and I hopethat you hear the joy and the
love that we have for himthrough our words every week,
through our tone, through ourvoice, because there is just
nothing greater than being achild of God.
And if that is something thatyou're interested in, something
that God, the Holy Spirit, hasbeen nudging your heart about,
(31:04):
and you want to say that prayer,romans 10-9 tells us that when
we speak it and believe it thatwe will be saved.
So I invite you to join me inthis prayer.
If that is something that Godhas been nudging you about, that
you want to start thatrelationship with God, that you
might not completely understandwhat it is, but you know that
(31:28):
God wants you to do it, justrepeat after me oh Heavenly
Father, I come to you in Jesus'name.
I believe you died on the crossand that you rose again and
you're seated on the throne.
Jesus, forgive me for all thatI have done wrong and I choose
to forgive all others.
(31:48):
Come into my life today andforever.
I am yours in Jesus' name.
Amen.
Welcome to the family.
We are so glad that you're hereand come back next week, and
we're going to continue the lastfour weeks to the last 10
(32:08):
chapters of the book.
Yes, I had to count, because mymath is not good either.
Have a great rest of your weekand we will talk to you next
week.
Bye-bye, konoka O ummari.
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