May 21, 2025 • 31 mins
What if your daily routines—meals, work, even small annoyances—are battlefields in a hidden war?
In this encore episode, we crack open Letters 4 & 5 of The Screwtape Letters, where C.S. Lewis reveals:
Demons don’t need dramatic sins—they prefer your lukewarm habits and petty irritations.
Satan’s #1 tactic to ruin your prayers
Why “moderate” worldliness is more dangerous than outright rebellion.
Satan wants you to dismiss this as “just fiction.” Don’t fall for it.
Scripture to Arm You:
“For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against… the cosmic powers over this present darkness.” (Ephesians 6:12)
#WakeUpChurch
(Tag us when you listen—we’ll pray against the mundane demons together.)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Hi and welcome to the Cheer Up Podcast.
I'm your host, kara R Hunt, andwith me is my lovely co-host
and talented author and speaker,sherry Swalwell.
How are you doing today, sherry?
I am?
Speaker 2 (00:34):
doing great.
Did you enjoy your long Fourthof July weekend?
I cannot believe that Fourth ofJuly is over already.
Like, where is the summer going?
Speaker 1 (00:47):
I know right, summer is just so like, really, truly,
that is the question of the year.
Well, that, and where didFebruary go?
I know I'm still looking for it.
To me it's just like, you know,for our listeners out there.
I'm just like, for some reason,i just February seemed like it
showed its face and then leftbefore, like the whole month was
(01:09):
completed.
So and now here, it is almostthe middle of summer, am I right
?
I'm not exactly sure.
When summer ends, i know,around here they just tease and
say, oh well, labor Day is likethe end of summer, you know, but
I don't think that'stechnically correct, but I do
think July is definitely theheart of summer, you know.
(01:32):
So, wow, 2023 is on its way out, technically, i know, and 2024
is showing and saying hi, i'llbe there soon, you know.
So, yeah, time is just reallyreally flying by, and I just
(01:56):
want to say welcome to all ofour listeners.
If you are a listener to theCheer Up podcast, you are part
of what we call Cheer Nation,and so we want to thank you for
joining us and being a part ofCheer Nation.
And we're called Cheer Nationbecause we referred our
(02:17):
listeners as Cheer Nation,because the scripture that the
Cheer Up podcast is based on,and that's John 16, verse 33.
And Sherry will be able tomention more about that later,
you know, at the end of thepodcast.
But welcome to all of ourlisteners, those in the States
(02:37):
and out of the States.
We see you And if you are aregular listener, don't forget
to subscribe to the podcast anddownload it as well.
All of that goes and like ifit's available on your
particular podcasting platform.
All of that goes makes iteasier for your friends to find
(02:59):
us and others to find us, youknow, and all that algorithm
stuff.
So thank you for doing that,okay, so as we mentioned in
previous podcasts starting inJune and I believe the first
podcast for this particular wereferred to as a summer episode
(03:24):
It's, i believe, the very firstpodcast for the summer series
that we're doing, called theScrewtape Letters.
We're covering the topics andthe letters that were covered in
a book, the Screwtape Lettersby CS Lewis.
As an LEWIS And some of you maybe familiar with him from, like
(03:48):
Mir Christianity, the book MirChristianity, or the Chronicles
of Nornia He has also wrote a.
He also wrote a book called theScrewtape Letters And that is
the topic of the summer seriesthat we're covering from.
We started last month, in June,and again, i believe the first
(04:08):
episode for that series was June7.
And we initially was going togo to August, but we have now
extended it to the end ofSeptember.
So from now until the end ofSeptember, and including last
month, we will be discussing theScrewtape Letters by CS Lewis.
(04:30):
And again, for those who mayjust be joining in, the book CS
Lewis was originally written, orI should say published, and I
believe, 1941.
So the book is an old book.
It's not current, but it's, ithink it's, considered, i think
it's firmly planted in the genreof classical literature.
(04:52):
So it is, so it was written atthat time and you know, and
everything else, the topic ofthe book, or the book, is about
31 letters written from onedemon to another demon, and that
is why it's called theScrewtape Letters.
The demon writing the lettersis Screwtape, or Uncle Screwtape
(05:13):
, and he is writing letters tohis nephew Wormwood, who is a
new demon, so to speak.
You know, so to speak, andUncle Screwtape is an older
demon, higher in rank, and he'sjust trying to let his nephew
(05:34):
Wormwood know how to handle hisChristian per se.
And the book is referred to asthe patient, and a name I don't
believe is ever actually givento the patient.
So, but because we're usingAmerican vernacular, i'm just
going to say Christian you knowfor the topic of the book.
But so nephew Wormwood, youngnephew Wormwood and lower in
(05:59):
rank demon, a lower in rankdemon has been assigned a
Christian, a male Christian, andI think he's like in his
thirties, he's a fairly newChristian, no, no.
Well, he is a new Christian,very, very new Christian.
And Uncle Screwtape is justwriting letters to him telling
him of the things to do and whatnot to do.
And for those of you who arejust tuning in to this podcast,
(06:23):
to this episode, please go backand listen to the June 7th
episode of the screw-tapedletters.
And the reason I say that isbecause we go into very much, we
go a lot more in depth aboutdemons and what the Bible has to
say about demons, and we giveseveral scriptures about demons
(06:49):
and what the Bible has to sayabout that And that is, those
scriptures are the foundationthat we're basing a lot of the
topics on that we're discussingin the book of the screw-taped
letters.
Okay, i just wanted to givethat quick summary as a quick
catch up to everyone.
And last month we also.
The book contains 31 lettersfrom Uncle Screw-Taped to his
(07:11):
nephew Rormwood.
Last month we were able tocover letters one, two and three
And in this episode we're goingto cover the topics of four
excuse me, cover the letters offour and five in the book.
And the two things in thoseletters that Uncle Screw-Taped
(07:34):
talks to his nephew Rormwoodabout are a sincere prayer and
war.
He is talking about sincereprayer because the Christian
that Rormwood has been assigned,the young male Christian who
(07:55):
was new to the faith, isinterested in prayer or trying
to start praying and everythinglike that.
And Uncle Screw-Taped is like,yeah, no, we need to work on
this because we really don'twant him to get too far into
this And he teaches him andadvises him and gives him tips
on how to distract him fromprayer.
(08:17):
And letter five the Christianis kind of upset because there's
a war going on And we need toremember this was like in the
1940s.
So it was a war that washappening in Europe at the time
or that has started in Europe atthe time, and it was
(08:38):
nerve-wracking, to say the least, and he was losing a lot of
sleep over it.
And Rormwood is like, yay, he'slosing sleep over this.
He's so scared, he's sofrightened and things like that.
But Uncle Screw-Taped is likeyou idiot, like no, the last
thing we really want is war, andit tells him exactly why.
(08:59):
So those are the premises oftoday's episode.
Sherry, what did you think ofletters four and five?
Speaker 2 (09:10):
I thought that, like I had talked about last month,
it was hard for me to read,simply because the way that they
refer, the way that Rormwoodrefers to Satan he keeps calling
(09:30):
him and I forget his exactwording but like master or
father or something like that,and so I'm so used to that being
our heavenly father that it'shard for me.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
You had to reverse your Christian brain in a way.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Yeah, yeah, that was really hard for me, but I
thought that they definitelymake you think, the different
chapters.
They definitely make you think,and I would love for you to
share with the audience yourthoughts and then I'll tag along
after them.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Well, one of the things in letter four regarding
prayer that I thought UncleScrewtape said that I found
interesting is okay, he sayssomething along the line he
tells Rormwood that to keep yourChristian from seriously, the
(10:30):
goal this is what he's tellinghis nephew Rormwood he had demon
to lower ranking demon.
he is telling Rormwood that thewhole goal is to keep the
Christian from seriouslyintending to pray at all.
And if you can't keep him frompraying, then you should
(10:54):
misdirect the focus of theChristian's prayer so that
they're only about himself or anobject than another person.
And then he adds it is funnyhow mortals always picture us as
putting things into their minds, but in reality our best work
is done by keeping things out.
(11:14):
And I found that veryinteresting because he's the
whole purpose.
he's like, hey, if yourChristian is starting to pray
and yeah, we can't let thathappen, it's just like opening
up a giving the God's camp, likea hands up and things like that
(11:41):
.
But if he's intent on praying,then we need to make the prayers
about himself or something else, but not just about that person
.
And oh, by the way, our bestwork is done by keeping things
out of their mind.
And he goes on to even talkabout how give them an object to
(12:06):
pray to.
He's like I have beensuccessful Again this is the
head demon, uncle Screwtape,talking.
He's like I've been successfulat getting people to pray.
looking at the right, looking ata certain part in a room,
looking at the corner of theceiling, looking at a cross on
the wall, and he's looking at,you know, a chair or an object
(12:32):
or something like that.
He's like all he said you wantto get them looking and focused
on something.
Why they, if they, if theyintend on praying, get them to
focus on something anythingother than the one who creates
it them.
If it's a cross on the wall, ifit's a spot in the ceiling, if
(12:54):
it's a spot in the carpet,wherever, basically he was
saying, just get them to look atthat and focus on that and not
on the God.
you know the God who createdthem.
And I thought of that as verycurious, you know, because I've
heard people say that, you know,i've heard people say, oh, you
(13:15):
know, i set a chair in front ofme and when I'm praying and I
just imagine Jesus is sitting inthat chair and I pray to him, i
pray as though I'm talking tohim right there in that chair.
you know, and I didn't thinkanything of it, right, and I'm
not even sure we should, but itwas interesting that he that
(13:39):
that was one of the tactics thatcan be used.
And but when you think about it, how easily is that?
You know, the enemy always usesvery subtle ways to distract us
, right, a very slow-bade typeof distraction, and those type
of objects can become a hugedistraction.
(14:02):
What are your thoughts on this,sherry?
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Yes, i completely agree with you.
In fact, i just this week I wastalking to God and I usually
tend to talk to him out loudwhen I'm driving in the car And
I noticed that if I don't startprayer with praise, thanksgiving
and worship, that it tends to,or at times, especially on those
(14:29):
days when I'm like super, superbusy and I have a gazillion
things that I need to check offmy to-do list and my life
becomes more of a assembly linethan it does actually living
those kind of days, i find thatit's almost as though I'm
talking out loud to myselfinstead of talking to God, and I
(14:50):
never, ever, ever want it toget that way.
So I have found that I'vestarted to apologize to him And
if I start to feel myself goinginto that rope to do list,
assembly line mentality, i willall automatically switch over to
worshiping him, thanking himfor my blessings or thanking him
(15:13):
for who he is, or speaking hisname, or lifting all the
different names of God or Jesusor the Holy Spirit, to get my
focus back on who I'm trulypraying to.
But I'm not just talking outloud to hear myself talk, that.
I'm not just, you know, solvingmy problems out loud by
(15:35):
speaking them out loud.
No, i'm truly speaking topraying to the Holy Spirit,
god's Father and God's Son, andI also wanted to, or no?
I guess that was what I wasthinking about when you were
talking about the whole prayerthing is that, yes, we just need
(15:56):
to be reminded all the time ofwho we're truly praying to and
that it is God who answers ourprayers.
And thank goodness, because ifI'm just sitting here trying to
solve my own problems out loud,speaking out loud, they're not
going to get solved And myproblems are going to stay as
big, or possibly get even bigger, than they already are.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Absolutely, it's in vain, right, right, right.
Yeah, it's really in vain, andI love how you say starting with
prayer and worship andthanksgiving.
You know, and that's scripturalright, because the scripture
talks about and I can't think ofthe exact verse, listener, so
(16:45):
please forgive me where it talksabout we enter his gates with
praise and thanksgiving, am Iright, sherry?
Yeah, and there's a reason forit?
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Uh-huh, there's a reason for it, and that's why we
do it.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Yes, and we keep a focus on him, yes, and we enter
his gates with praise andthanksgiving, and that helps
keep our focus on him and not onthe problem or the circumstance
or trying to figure it out, youknow, and everything else.
(17:17):
And, by the way, we're notsupposed to figure it out, you
know, i just want to throw thatout there And we are to cast our
burdens on the Lord and let himfigure it out.
We are to say, lord, you knowall my anxieties, you know all
the thoughts that are bouncingaround in my head today or this
morning or tonight that'sstopping me from sleeping And I
(17:39):
can't do anything about any ofthem right now.
But that's okay, i don't needto because you are the Alpha
Omega, you got it all handledand you've asked me to cast my
burdens on you, and so this iswhat I'm doing, and you replace
all of those thoughts and all ofthose emotions with peace of
mind and joy in my spirit, andthat's honestly how we are to
(18:03):
respond to those things.
But going back to just using,you know, idolization and
objects and being swayed withouteven realizing being swayed is
so subtle, right, sherry?
Like you say at first, you'rerealizing like wait, who am I
talking to?
You know it's like am I talkingto myself?
(18:26):
Am I talking a lot?
Am I being my own psychologistOr am I actually talking to the
Lord of heaven and earth, theMost High God, the Holy One of
Israel?
And I think it's very, veryimportant to keep our objects to
that.
And that also goes with thosewho because I've had people you
know wonder and they say well,you know, what do you think
(18:48):
Jesus looks like?
Do you really think he's likethe European version that we see
everywhere in the pictures andhis stainless windows of you
know, white face, long hair,blue eyes and things like that?
And when I hear people, they gono, he has woolly hair, he has
this, he has that.
And my initial thought is itdoesn't matter.
(19:10):
Right, you're focusing on thewrong thing.
And I can see the enemy usingthat to distract a lot of people
, you know, and praying topaintings and or stainless
windows over their image of whatpeople look, of what Jesus
should look like, you know, andthings in that tone.
(19:32):
And I can definitely see theenemy using that and creating an
object in a person's mind topray to and actually praying in
the spirit of Christ to Fatherabove.
So, and that is exactly whatUncle Scrutate was trying to
tell his nephew Warnwood and hewas also saying and, by the way,
(19:57):
make their prayers very, veryself-centered.
You know about them.
You know they need more money,they need this, they need a
house, they need a car, theyneed a better job, they need
this, they need that.
Keep it focused on them.
And when they're praying forother people, you know, have
them focus on the things that'swrong with them, like, oh, help
so-and-so with their anger,because they are a very angry
(20:20):
person, or help so-and-so, youknow, with their addiction,
because they're addicted to.
You know everything they put intheir mouth, so to speak.
He said, but you know any, buthave them focus on anything and
everything except praying fortheir soul, you know, and so a
lot of that.
It's so subtle and that's just,and you know that's how the
(20:42):
enemy operates.
He's very subtle and he's verydeceitful and he's very
manipulative And so, and that isexactly the skills that Uncle
Scrutate was trying to teach hisnephew Warnwood in that fourth
letter And then in a fifthletter of the Scrutate letters,
(21:02):
they were they.
They talk about, they're talkingabout war and again, this is,
you know, back in the 1940s anda ward that was starting.
Who would you want to have astarting back in Europe?
you know, at the time and thenephew is just like, hey, uncle
(21:23):
Scrutate, like I got him allworried and anxious and
everything else you know aboutthis ward is coming up and all
the what-is like, well, what ifmy country gets involved, and
what if this country getsinvolved?
and you know, and everythingelse.
And then you know there's a bigworld war and we already have
one of those, and you know, andthen this can happen, and then
that can happen, and you know,and then how does that affect us
(21:44):
?
Like you know, we'll be runningout of our homes, and anxiety
just builds and builds andbuilds.
So you know, warnwood, matthewWarnwood, who's a law-ranking
demon, was thinking this was agood thing and he kind of was
bragging along, i think, to hisuncle and Uncle was like you,
silly little demon, you know,like no more people we have lost
(22:08):
more people to God's campduring wartime than any other
time.
He's like so no, putting thosethoughts in his mind, those
suggestions in his mind, thosefears in his mind about war
really doesn't work for us.
You know, he's like that justactually brings them closer to
(22:31):
the God that they serve.
What's more beneficial is, hesays, much more beneficial for
us to lose someone in a nursinghome, for example, because you
have doctors who's lying to themand giving them false hope and
false promises, saying, oh,you're going to be okay, oh, we
just do this surgery and you'llbe right as rain, you know, and
things like that.
(22:52):
And he's like and then you knowthey don't know that and
everything else.
But then they lose hope, theylose faith, like why, god, if
this was really you, then whydidn't that surgery work?
Or why did I actually end uplosing my leg?
Or you know why am I in awheelchair now?
And you know it's not gettingbetter because I'm getting older
(23:13):
.
He's like those type of tacticswork a lot better for us than
wartime ever could.
What are your thoughts on that,sherry?
Speaker 2 (23:24):
I agree 100%.
And this is going to seem weirdbecause, instead of focusing on
the war aspect, what I got outof it or what I continue to get
out of the whole main theme ofthe screw tape thing is we
talked about it in June, thefirst one, June 7th, where we
spoke about the different demonsand the biblical viewpoint of
(23:47):
demons, And I guess I don't knowGod just impressing it upon my
heart to focus on the fact thatno matter what screw tape did,
it was always wrong.
Wormwood was never pleased withhim, even when he quote unquote
did something good.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
By Bersa.
But yeah, Wormwood's a nephew.
Screw tapes the uncle.
Yes, Sorry.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Yeah, screw tape was never, never pleased with
Wormwood, and I think that wereally need to to realize that,
that when you aren't serving God, by default, you're serving
Satan, and he will never bepleased with you.
No matter what he says and nomatter how you feel, and no
(24:32):
matter what you think you'rebeing promised, you are never
going to please him.
He hates you, and screw tapehates Wormwood.
I mean, let's be honest, theymay be related, but he hates him
because they don't know how tolove and they're imitators, so
they can't do anything, theycan't create anything new, so
(24:54):
all they can do is twist thetruth, and I think that's really
what I.
I see the relationship aspectof it more so than the details,
and and that's just kind of whatsticks out or stands out to me
is that, no matter what happens,he's never going to be pleased
with him, he's never going tosatisfy him, he's never going to
(25:16):
make him happy, and so I I feellike this is a good place to
wrap up, kara, but is thereanything else that you want to
say before we do officially wrapup for today and then jump into
our next new topic for nextweek?
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Yes, um, uh, just to piggyback a little bit on
something that you were sayingum, it just goes to show you
that you may think that notserving God and we covered this
previously If you're not servingGod, you're serving the enemy.
It's pretty much as simple asthat, and I believe we gave
biblical foundations for that,too, in the June 7th episode.
(25:57):
Um, so, no matter if you thinkthat you're trying to do
something to to you know, whenyou're worshiping something, if
it's not God, you're worshipingsomething.
And if you think that any inthat that's going, that, that is
going to make you happy, orthat, um, it's going to make
that, that, that that somehow orhelp you, it's not, it's all
(26:20):
designed by the enemy to deceiveyou and to add you to the other
fallen angels, you know, in thepit.
So, uh, we just have to bereally, really, really careful,
and that is the whole pointwe're discussing.
We're discussing the schooltapes, letters, uh, over the
next couple of weeks, uh, also,if we would love to hear your
(26:40):
thoughts and your insights, andif you would like to hear more,
you have something to add, oryou have something to say or you
have a comment, then, uh, thenlet us know.
And if you also are interestedin doing something like a
Twitter space um to where we canall be in discussion and a
discussion about the booktogether, then let us know.
Just send us an email atchairuphighcasts at gmailcom and
(27:04):
say Hey, yeah, i'll beinterested in joining you and
Sherry on a Twitter space And ifwe get at least 10 people, then
we will announce the date andtime um of the Twitter space to
to uh be able to even discussthis in more detail and get our
listeners in sight and ourlisteners input and what our
listeners think um about thebook and what we've said during
(27:26):
this podcast.
So that's all I wanted to ask,sherry.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
I I I'm really enjoying the screw tape letters
much more than I thought I wouldbecause, like I said, it's
confusing for me to read them,but there's nothing like
discussing them and discussingthe different um topics and the
different chapters that are um,that are spoken about, um, and I
(27:53):
loved how, when I read CSRuiz's phone take on it, it took
him forever to publish itbecause he struggled with the
whole um opposite thinking aswell, and so I just think that
this is a really nice topic forthis summer, um and September.
I think that the chapters arevery relevant to today.
(28:15):
Next week, the two chaptersthat we're going to talk about
are focus and extremism, so ifyou're interested, come and
listen to those.
I also want to give a quickshout out to Kara.
She is the winner of the SaevaAward with her um book Paper
Dolls, the very first of herfiction series, and I will tell
you if you have not read it yet,go out and get it because it is
(28:38):
amazing.
I I have had the privilege ofreading Paper Dolls, types and
Priscilla, um, and soon I'll bereading Lydia.
But you know, Kara, as much asI love all three of them, paper
Dolls is still my absolutefavorite, and I think it's
because you talk about all ofthe dolls at the same time and
(29:00):
you introduce them all insteadof starting us out with this one
by one.
Um, i just absolutely love howyou did that And I cannot wait
to continue it going in depthwith each of the different dolls
, um, with each of the differentbooks.
So if you haven't read PaperDolls yet, i highly encourage it
.
You can find it on Amazon.
You can also go to Kara'swebsite, kara A-T-U-N-P dot com.
(29:24):
Um, and she has uh videos upabout her different books.
She just has some greatinformation on her website, so
please check it out.
As she said, john 1633 saysthese things.
I have spoken to you.
This is Jesus speaking, but inme, you may have peace in the
world.
You will have tribulations, butbe a prettier, i have overcome
(29:46):
the world.
Um, the screw tape letters justspeaks about that as well.
Um, it goes right back to ourtopic that we will have
childhood tribulations in thisworld, whether we're believers
or unbelievers, and it's just um, it's just kind of the nature
of the beast and the way life is, but we just get to decide.
(30:07):
Do we want to do life with Godor without God.
Do we want his help or do wewant to shut him out?
So come back next week.
We're going to talk about thatagain.
And, um, if you are a newbeliever, if you're a Christ
follower and you've been one fora while but you just have this,
this nudge on the inside thatyou want to grow and you don't
(30:29):
know how, you don't know whereto start, you don't know what to
do, i would encourage you to goto my website, sherry12lcom,
and check out Jesus and theEveryday Membership.
It's a monthly membership.
For a small monthly fee, youwill get 365 days in your inbox
of encouragement and ways tohelp you grow personally and in
(30:51):
the community with Jesus Christ.
So I ask you to check that outas well.
And um, uh, i have a fictionseries there.
I have some nonfiction booksfor sale there on Amazon and
Nintendo Unlimited Um to checkout all of that stuff.
If you need prayer orencouragement, send us an email
(31:12):
at cheeruppodcastcom.
And we're just really gratefulthat you're here.
We love interacting with ourlisteners and we hope that you
are enjoying the screw tapes asmuch as we are.
So we will talk to you nextweek.
Have a great rest of your weekand I hope you had a great 4th
of July.
Hi and welcome to the Cheer Up Podcast.
I'm your host, kara R Hunt, andwith me is my lovely co-host
and talented author and speaker,sherry Swalwell.
How are you doing today, sherry?
I am?
Speaker 2 (00:34):
doing great.
Did you enjoy your long Fourthof July weekend?
I cannot believe that Fourth ofJuly is over already.
Like, where is the summer going?
Speaker 1 (00:47):
I know right, summer is just so like, really, truly,
that is the question of the year.
Well, that, and where didFebruary go?
I know I'm still looking for it.
To me it's just like, you know,for our listeners out there.
I'm just like, for some reason,i just February seemed like it
showed its face and then leftbefore, like the whole month was
(01:09):
completed.
So and now here, it is almostthe middle of summer, am I right
?
I'm not exactly sure.
When summer ends, i know,around here they just tease and
say, oh well, labor Day is likethe end of summer, you know, but
I don't think that'stechnically correct, but I do
think July is definitely theheart of summer, you know.
(01:32):
So, wow, 2023 is on its way out, technically, i know, and 2024
is showing and saying hi, i'llbe there soon, you know.
So, yeah, time is just reallyreally flying by, and I just
(01:56):
want to say welcome to all ofour listeners.
If you are a listener to theCheer Up podcast, you are part
of what we call Cheer Nation,and so we want to thank you for
joining us and being a part ofCheer Nation.
And we're called Cheer Nationbecause we referred our
(02:17):
listeners as Cheer Nation,because the scripture that the
Cheer Up podcast is based on,and that's John 16, verse 33.
And Sherry will be able tomention more about that later,
you know, at the end of thepodcast.
But welcome to all of ourlisteners, those in the States
(02:37):
and out of the States.
We see you And if you are aregular listener, don't forget
to subscribe to the podcast anddownload it as well.
All of that goes and like ifit's available on your
particular podcasting platform.
All of that goes makes iteasier for your friends to find
(02:59):
us and others to find us, youknow, and all that algorithm
stuff.
So thank you for doing that,okay, so as we mentioned in
previous podcasts starting inJune and I believe the first
podcast for this particular wereferred to as a summer episode
(03:24):
It's, i believe, the very firstpodcast for the summer series
that we're doing, called theScrewtape Letters.
We're covering the topics andthe letters that were covered in
a book, the Screwtape Lettersby CS Lewis.
As an LEWIS And some of you maybe familiar with him from, like
(03:48):
Mir Christianity, the book MirChristianity, or the Chronicles
of Nornia He has also wrote a.
He also wrote a book called theScrewtape Letters And that is
the topic of the summer seriesthat we're covering from.
We started last month, in June,and again, i believe the first
(04:08):
episode for that series was June7.
And we initially was going togo to August, but we have now
extended it to the end ofSeptember.
So from now until the end ofSeptember, and including last
month, we will be discussing theScrewtape Letters by CS Lewis.
(04:30):
And again, for those who mayjust be joining in, the book CS
Lewis was originally written, orI should say published, and I
believe, 1941.
So the book is an old book.
It's not current, but it's, ithink it's, considered, i think
it's firmly planted in the genreof classical literature.
(04:52):
So it is, so it was written atthat time and you know, and
everything else, the topic ofthe book, or the book, is about
31 letters written from onedemon to another demon, and that
is why it's called theScrewtape Letters.
The demon writing the lettersis Screwtape, or Uncle Screwtape
(05:13):
, and he is writing letters tohis nephew Wormwood, who is a
new demon, so to speak.
You know, so to speak, andUncle Screwtape is an older
demon, higher in rank, and he'sjust trying to let his nephew
(05:34):
Wormwood know how to handle hisChristian per se.
And the book is referred to asthe patient, and a name I don't
believe is ever actually givento the patient.
So, but because we're usingAmerican vernacular, i'm just
going to say Christian you knowfor the topic of the book.
But so nephew Wormwood, youngnephew Wormwood and lower in
(05:59):
rank demon, a lower in rankdemon has been assigned a
Christian, a male Christian, andI think he's like in his
thirties, he's a fairly newChristian, no, no.
Well, he is a new Christian,very, very new Christian.
And Uncle Screwtape is justwriting letters to him telling
him of the things to do and whatnot to do.
And for those of you who arejust tuning in to this podcast,
(06:23):
to this episode, please go backand listen to the June 7th
episode of the screw-tapedletters.
And the reason I say that isbecause we go into very much, we
go a lot more in depth aboutdemons and what the Bible has to
say about demons, and we giveseveral scriptures about demons
(06:49):
and what the Bible has to sayabout that And that is, those
scriptures are the foundationthat we're basing a lot of the
topics on that we're discussingin the book of the screw-taped
letters.
Okay, i just wanted to givethat quick summary as a quick
catch up to everyone.
And last month we also.
The book contains 31 lettersfrom Uncle Screw-Taped to his
(07:11):
nephew Rormwood.
Last month we were able tocover letters one, two and three
And in this episode we're goingto cover the topics of four
excuse me, cover the letters offour and five in the book.
And the two things in thoseletters that Uncle Screw-Taped
(07:34):
talks to his nephew Rormwoodabout are a sincere prayer and
war.
He is talking about sincereprayer because the Christian
that Rormwood has been assigned,the young male Christian who
(07:55):
was new to the faith, isinterested in prayer or trying
to start praying and everythinglike that.
And Uncle Screw-Taped is like,yeah, no, we need to work on
this because we really don'twant him to get too far into
this And he teaches him andadvises him and gives him tips
on how to distract him fromprayer.
(08:17):
And letter five the Christianis kind of upset because there's
a war going on And we need toremember this was like in the
1940s.
So it was a war that washappening in Europe at the time
or that has started in Europe atthe time, and it was
(08:38):
nerve-wracking, to say the least, and he was losing a lot of
sleep over it.
And Rormwood is like, yay, he'slosing sleep over this.
He's so scared, he's sofrightened and things like that.
But Uncle Screw-Taped is likeyou idiot, like no, the last
thing we really want is war, andit tells him exactly why.
(08:59):
So those are the premises oftoday's episode.
Sherry, what did you think ofletters four and five?
Speaker 2 (09:10):
I thought that, like I had talked about last month,
it was hard for me to read,simply because the way that they
refer, the way that Rormwoodrefers to Satan he keeps calling
(09:30):
him and I forget his exactwording but like master or
father or something like that,and so I'm so used to that being
our heavenly father that it'shard for me.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
You had to reverse your Christian brain in a way.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Yeah, yeah, that was really hard for me, but I
thought that they definitelymake you think, the different
chapters.
They definitely make you think,and I would love for you to
share with the audience yourthoughts and then I'll tag along
after them.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Well, one of the things in letter four regarding
prayer that I thought UncleScrewtape said that I found
interesting is okay, he sayssomething along the line he
tells Rormwood that to keep yourChristian from seriously, the
(10:30):
goal this is what he's tellinghis nephew Rormwood he had demon
to lower ranking demon.
he is telling Rormwood that thewhole goal is to keep the
Christian from seriouslyintending to pray at all.
And if you can't keep him frompraying, then you should
(10:54):
misdirect the focus of theChristian's prayer so that
they're only about himself or anobject than another person.
And then he adds it is funnyhow mortals always picture us as
putting things into their minds, but in reality our best work
is done by keeping things out.
(11:14):
And I found that veryinteresting because he's the
whole purpose.
he's like, hey, if yourChristian is starting to pray
and yeah, we can't let thathappen, it's just like opening
up a giving the God's camp, likea hands up and things like that
(11:41):
.
But if he's intent on praying,then we need to make the prayers
about himself or something else, but not just about that person
.
And oh, by the way, our bestwork is done by keeping things
out of their mind.
And he goes on to even talkabout how give them an object to
(12:06):
pray to.
He's like I have beensuccessful Again this is the
head demon, uncle Screwtape,talking.
He's like I've been successfulat getting people to pray.
looking at the right, looking ata certain part in a room,
looking at the corner of theceiling, looking at a cross on
the wall, and he's looking at,you know, a chair or an object
(12:32):
or something like that.
He's like all he said you wantto get them looking and focused
on something.
Why they, if they, if theyintend on praying, get them to
focus on something anythingother than the one who creates
it them.
If it's a cross on the wall, ifit's a spot in the ceiling, if
(12:54):
it's a spot in the carpet,wherever, basically he was
saying, just get them to look atthat and focus on that and not
on the God.
you know the God who createdthem.
And I thought of that as verycurious, you know, because I've
heard people say that, you know,i've heard people say, oh, you
(13:15):
know, i set a chair in front ofme and when I'm praying and I
just imagine Jesus is sitting inthat chair and I pray to him, i
pray as though I'm talking tohim right there in that chair.
you know, and I didn't thinkanything of it, right, and I'm
not even sure we should, but itwas interesting that he that
(13:39):
that was one of the tactics thatcan be used.
And but when you think about it, how easily is that?
You know, the enemy always usesvery subtle ways to distract us
, right, a very slow-bade typeof distraction, and those type
of objects can become a hugedistraction.
(14:02):
What are your thoughts on this,sherry?
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Yes, i completely agree with you.
In fact, i just this week I wastalking to God and I usually
tend to talk to him out loudwhen I'm driving in the car And
I noticed that if I don't startprayer with praise, thanksgiving
and worship, that it tends to,or at times, especially on those
(14:29):
days when I'm like super, superbusy and I have a gazillion
things that I need to check offmy to-do list and my life
becomes more of a assembly linethan it does actually living
those kind of days, i find thatit's almost as though I'm
talking out loud to myselfinstead of talking to God, and I
(14:50):
never, ever, ever want it toget that way.
So I have found that I'vestarted to apologize to him And
if I start to feel myself goinginto that rope to do list,
assembly line mentality, i willall automatically switch over to
worshiping him, thanking himfor my blessings or thanking him
(15:13):
for who he is, or speaking hisname, or lifting all the
different names of God or Jesusor the Holy Spirit, to get my
focus back on who I'm trulypraying to.
But I'm not just talking outloud to hear myself talk, that.
I'm not just, you know, solvingmy problems out loud by
(15:35):
speaking them out loud.
No, i'm truly speaking topraying to the Holy Spirit,
god's Father and God's Son, andI also wanted to, or no?
I guess that was what I wasthinking about when you were
talking about the whole prayerthing is that, yes, we just need
(15:56):
to be reminded all the time ofwho we're truly praying to and
that it is God who answers ourprayers.
And thank goodness, because ifI'm just sitting here trying to
solve my own problems out loud,speaking out loud, they're not
going to get solved And myproblems are going to stay as
big, or possibly get even bigger, than they already are.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Absolutely, it's in vain, right, right, right.
Yeah, it's really in vain, andI love how you say starting with
prayer and worship andthanksgiving.
You know, and that's scripturalright, because the scripture
talks about and I can't think ofthe exact verse, listener, so
(16:45):
please forgive me where it talksabout we enter his gates with
praise and thanksgiving, am Iright, sherry?
Yeah, and there's a reason forit?
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Uh-huh, there's a reason for it, and that's why we
do it.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Yes, and we keep a focus on him, yes, and we enter
his gates with praise andthanksgiving, and that helps
keep our focus on him and not onthe problem or the circumstance
or trying to figure it out, youknow, and everything else.
(17:17):
And, by the way, we're notsupposed to figure it out, you
know, i just want to throw thatout there And we are to cast our
burdens on the Lord and let himfigure it out.
We are to say, lord, you knowall my anxieties, you know all
the thoughts that are bouncingaround in my head today or this
morning or tonight that'sstopping me from sleeping And I
(17:39):
can't do anything about any ofthem right now.
But that's okay, i don't needto because you are the Alpha
Omega, you got it all handledand you've asked me to cast my
burdens on you, and so this iswhat I'm doing, and you replace
all of those thoughts and all ofthose emotions with peace of
mind and joy in my spirit, andthat's honestly how we are to
(18:03):
respond to those things.
But going back to just using,you know, idolization and
objects and being swayed withouteven realizing being swayed is
so subtle, right, sherry?
Like you say at first, you'rerealizing like wait, who am I
talking to?
You know it's like am I talkingto myself?
(18:26):
Am I talking a lot?
Am I being my own psychologistOr am I actually talking to the
Lord of heaven and earth, theMost High God, the Holy One of
Israel?
And I think it's very, veryimportant to keep our objects to
that.
And that also goes with thosewho because I've had people you
know wonder and they say well,you know, what do you think
(18:48):
Jesus looks like?
Do you really think he's likethe European version that we see
everywhere in the pictures andhis stainless windows of you
know, white face, long hair,blue eyes and things like that?
And when I hear people, they gono, he has woolly hair, he has
this, he has that.
And my initial thought is itdoesn't matter.
(19:10):
Right, you're focusing on thewrong thing.
And I can see the enemy usingthat to distract a lot of people
, you know, and praying topaintings and or stainless
windows over their image of whatpeople look, of what Jesus
should look like, you know, andthings in that tone.
(19:32):
And I can definitely see theenemy using that and creating an
object in a person's mind topray to and actually praying in
the spirit of Christ to Fatherabove.
So, and that is exactly whatUncle Scrutate was trying to
tell his nephew Warnwood and hewas also saying and, by the way,
(19:57):
make their prayers very, veryself-centered.
You know about them.
You know they need more money,they need this, they need a
house, they need a car, theyneed a better job, they need
this, they need that.
Keep it focused on them.
And when they're praying forother people, you know, have
them focus on the things that'swrong with them, like, oh, help
so-and-so with their anger,because they are a very angry
(20:20):
person, or help so-and-so, youknow, with their addiction,
because they're addicted to.
You know everything they put intheir mouth, so to speak.
He said, but you know any, buthave them focus on anything and
everything except praying fortheir soul, you know, and so a
lot of that.
It's so subtle and that's just,and you know that's how the
(20:42):
enemy operates.
He's very subtle and he's verydeceitful and he's very
manipulative And so, and that isexactly the skills that Uncle
Scrutate was trying to teach hisnephew Warnwood in that fourth
letter And then in a fifthletter of the Scrutate letters,
(21:02):
they were they.
They talk about, they're talkingabout war and again, this is,
you know, back in the 1940s anda ward that was starting.
Who would you want to have astarting back in Europe?
you know, at the time and thenephew is just like, hey, uncle
(21:23):
Scrutate, like I got him allworried and anxious and
everything else you know aboutthis ward is coming up and all
the what-is like, well, what ifmy country gets involved, and
what if this country getsinvolved?
and you know, and everythingelse.
And then you know there's a bigworld war and we already have
one of those, and you know, andthen this can happen, and then
that can happen, and you know,and then how does that affect us
(21:44):
?
Like you know, we'll be runningout of our homes, and anxiety
just builds and builds andbuilds.
So you know, warnwood, matthewWarnwood, who's a law-ranking
demon, was thinking this was agood thing and he kind of was
bragging along, i think, to hisuncle and Uncle was like you,
silly little demon, you know,like no more people we have lost
(22:08):
more people to God's campduring wartime than any other
time.
He's like so no, putting thosethoughts in his mind, those
suggestions in his mind, thosefears in his mind about war
really doesn't work for us.
You know, he's like that justactually brings them closer to
(22:31):
the God that they serve.
What's more beneficial is, hesays, much more beneficial for
us to lose someone in a nursinghome, for example, because you
have doctors who's lying to themand giving them false hope and
false promises, saying, oh,you're going to be okay, oh, we
just do this surgery and you'llbe right as rain, you know, and
things like that.
(22:52):
And he's like and then you knowthey don't know that and
everything else.
But then they lose hope, theylose faith, like why, god, if
this was really you, then whydidn't that surgery work?
Or why did I actually end uplosing my leg?
Or you know why am I in awheelchair now?
And you know it's not gettingbetter because I'm getting older
(23:13):
.
He's like those type of tacticswork a lot better for us than
wartime ever could.
What are your thoughts on that,sherry?
Speaker 2 (23:24):
I agree 100%.
And this is going to seem weirdbecause, instead of focusing on
the war aspect, what I got outof it or what I continue to get
out of the whole main theme ofthe screw tape thing is we
talked about it in June, thefirst one, June 7th, where we
spoke about the different demonsand the biblical viewpoint of
(23:47):
demons, And I guess I don't knowGod just impressing it upon my
heart to focus on the fact thatno matter what screw tape did,
it was always wrong.
Wormwood was never pleased withhim, even when he quote unquote
did something good.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
By Bersa.
But yeah, Wormwood's a nephew.
Screw tapes the uncle.
Yes, Sorry.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Yeah, screw tape was never, never pleased with
Wormwood, and I think that wereally need to to realize that,
that when you aren't serving God, by default, you're serving
Satan, and he will never bepleased with you.
No matter what he says and nomatter how you feel, and no
(24:32):
matter what you think you'rebeing promised, you are never
going to please him.
He hates you, and screw tapehates Wormwood.
I mean, let's be honest, theymay be related, but he hates him
because they don't know how tolove and they're imitators, so
they can't do anything, theycan't create anything new, so
(24:54):
all they can do is twist thetruth, and I think that's really
what I.
I see the relationship aspectof it more so than the details,
and and that's just kind of whatsticks out or stands out to me
is that, no matter what happens,he's never going to be pleased
with him, he's never going tosatisfy him, he's never going to
(25:16):
make him happy, and so I I feellike this is a good place to
wrap up, kara, but is thereanything else that you want to
say before we do officially wrapup for today and then jump into
our next new topic for nextweek?
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Yes, um, uh, just to piggyback a little bit on
something that you were sayingum, it just goes to show you
that you may think that notserving God and we covered this
previously If you're not servingGod, you're serving the enemy.
It's pretty much as simple asthat, and I believe we gave
biblical foundations for that,too, in the June 7th episode.
(25:57):
Um, so, no matter if you thinkthat you're trying to do
something to to you know, whenyou're worshiping something, if
it's not God, you're worshipingsomething.
And if you think that any inthat that's going, that, that is
going to make you happy, orthat, um, it's going to make
that, that, that that somehow orhelp you, it's not, it's all
(26:20):
designed by the enemy to deceiveyou and to add you to the other
fallen angels, you know, in thepit.
So, uh, we just have to bereally, really, really careful,
and that is the whole pointwe're discussing.
We're discussing the schooltapes, letters, uh, over the
next couple of weeks, uh, also,if we would love to hear your
(26:40):
thoughts and your insights, andif you would like to hear more,
you have something to add, oryou have something to say or you
have a comment, then, uh, thenlet us know.
And if you also are interestedin doing something like a
Twitter space um to where we canall be in discussion and a
discussion about the booktogether, then let us know.
Just send us an email atchairuphighcasts at gmailcom and
(27:04):
say Hey, yeah, i'll beinterested in joining you and
Sherry on a Twitter space And ifwe get at least 10 people, then
we will announce the date andtime um of the Twitter space to
to uh be able to even discussthis in more detail and get our
listeners in sight and ourlisteners input and what our
listeners think um about thebook and what we've said during
(27:26):
this podcast.
So that's all I wanted to ask,sherry.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
I I I'm really enjoying the screw tape letters
much more than I thought I wouldbecause, like I said, it's
confusing for me to read them,but there's nothing like
discussing them and discussingthe different um topics and the
different chapters that are um,that are spoken about, um, and I
(27:53):
loved how, when I read CSRuiz's phone take on it, it took
him forever to publish itbecause he struggled with the
whole um opposite thinking aswell, and so I just think that
this is a really nice topic forthis summer, um and September.
I think that the chapters arevery relevant to today.
(28:15):
Next week, the two chaptersthat we're going to talk about
are focus and extremism, so ifyou're interested, come and
listen to those.
I also want to give a quickshout out to Kara.
She is the winner of the SaevaAward with her um book Paper
Dolls, the very first of herfiction series, and I will tell
you if you have not read it yet,go out and get it because it is
(28:38):
amazing.
I I have had the privilege ofreading Paper Dolls, types and
Priscilla, um, and soon I'll bereading Lydia.
But you know, Kara, as much asI love all three of them, paper
Dolls is still my absolutefavorite, and I think it's
because you talk about all ofthe dolls at the same time and
(29:00):
you introduce them all insteadof starting us out with this one
by one.
Um, i just absolutely love howyou did that And I cannot wait
to continue it going in depthwith each of the different dolls
, um, with each of the differentbooks.
So if you haven't read PaperDolls yet, i highly encourage it
.
You can find it on Amazon.
You can also go to Kara'swebsite, kara A-T-U-N-P dot com.
(29:24):
Um, and she has uh videos upabout her different books.
She just has some greatinformation on her website, so
please check it out.
As she said, john 1633 saysthese things.
I have spoken to you.
This is Jesus speaking, but inme, you may have peace in the
world.
You will have tribulations, butbe a prettier, i have overcome
(29:46):
the world.
Um, the screw tape letters justspeaks about that as well.
Um, it goes right back to ourtopic that we will have
childhood tribulations in thisworld, whether we're believers
or unbelievers, and it's just um, it's just kind of the nature
of the beast and the way life is, but we just get to decide.
(30:07):
Do we want to do life with Godor without God.
Do we want his help or do wewant to shut him out?
So come back next week.
We're going to talk about thatagain.
And, um, if you are a newbeliever, if you're a Christ
follower and you've been one fora while but you just have this,
this nudge on the inside thatyou want to grow and you don't
(30:29):
know how, you don't know whereto start, you don't know what to
do, i would encourage you to goto my website, sherry12lcom,
and check out Jesus and theEveryday Membership.
It's a monthly membership.
For a small monthly fee, youwill get 365 days in your inbox
of encouragement and ways tohelp you grow personally and in
(30:51):
the community with Jesus Christ.
So I ask you to check that outas well.
And um, uh, i have a fictionseries there.
I have some nonfiction booksfor sale there on Amazon and
Nintendo Unlimited Um to checkout all of that stuff.
If you need prayer orencouragement, send us an email
(31:12):
at cheeruppodcastcom.
And we're just really gratefulthat you're here.
We love interacting with ourlisteners and we hope that you
are enjoying the screw tapes asmuch as we are.
So we will talk to you nextweek.
Have a great rest of your weekand I hope you had a great 4th
of July.
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