May 28, 2025 • 39 mins
What if the devil wants you to ‘marvel at nature’… but miss God?
In this encore episode, we dissect Letters 6 & 7 of The Screwtape Letters, where Uncle Screwtape teaches Wormwood to:
Twist awe of creation into distraction from the Creator (“Let him study the river, not the River-Maker!”).
Fuel ‘righteous’ extremism—because hatred, even for a ‘good cause’, is still hell’s victory.
Exploit stress and fear to make Christians obsess over the temporary instead of eternity.
YOU’LL DISCOVER:
—why your spiritual highs/lows aren’t accidents (they’re demonic strategy).
- how to spot fake ‘focus’ (when busyness replaces worship) and reclaim eternal perspective.
- why grace, not rage, is the kryptonite to Satan’s plans.
Remember, Satan doesn’t care if you’re ‘woke’ or ‘conservative’—he just wants you too angry or too numb to love like Christ.
“Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls like a roaring lion…” (1 Peter 5:8)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Hi and welcome to the True Up podcast.
I am your host, carole R Hunt,and with me is the amazing
Sherry Swalwell.
How are you doing today, sherry?
Speaker 2 (00:31):
I am doing great.
I can't believe that it'salready July.
I am loving the summer and notthinking about back to school,
even though it's already in ourfaces in the stores.
I am choosing to be intentionaland living in the moment, not
(00:52):
dreading what is coming ahead.
My tears are not bad, but Ijust love the pace of our
summers.
I love sitting out on the deck.
I love just all of it.
The bugs aren't quite as bad.
The corn is starting to grow.
I have morning walks with ouryoungest.
I just love the pace of summer.
(01:14):
I really, really do.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
I know it is amazing.
What I love more about thesummer is that early in the
morning, because the trees arenot full right, we have a
sugar-mape on our front yard andit has tons of branches.
It's early in the morning.
I now hear tons and tons ofbirds because a million of them
(01:40):
live in that tree.
I am talking as early as 4am.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Yes, there is nothing better than starting our day
that way.
We are the same way.
I think that is one of thereasons I love our early morning
walks.
They all Like.
Last year I noticed them forthe first time, then this year
if you just stop and listen,there are so many different
sounds to so many differentbirds.
I don't know.
(02:07):
It just really makes me longfor heaven, because it just
makes me think if God loves usso much to give us that now,
what is our life going to belike up there?
It blows me away.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
I know, it is the little things that.
Well, I guess I want to begrateful.
I don't think it's my age, Ithink it's just the fact that I
never cease to be amazed byGod's beauty right, god's beauty
.
And I wonder how many times Ijust ignored this when I was
(02:45):
younger.
But little things like seeingdifferent type of butterflies.
My husband would hear me squeeand I had done it not too long
ago.
I was in a laundry room.
We have a huge window in alaundry room and I was looking
out and there's some wildflowersthere and he heard me go.
(03:06):
Oh, my goodness, hey, pretty,pretty.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
I know he had to be like who is she talking?
Speaker 1 (03:11):
to In the laundry room and right out there just
dancing and pollinating aroundthe wildflowers and stuff.
It's a black butterfly.
They are not common here, butthey're not common If you know
what I mean.
They're not uncommon, butthey're still pretty rare to see
.
You don't see them every day.
(03:31):
Like you see the monarchs andall the other butterflies here
they're still, and this one wasso beautiful.
He was just out there justpollinating the flowers and
doing his business.
It stayed there, I think, forquite a while.
I think I'm going to get apicture too as well.
Just those little things.
(03:53):
Obviously, that's not my firsttime seeing a black butterfly,
but I'm like, how many times inthe past has I been all around
me and I just never even noticedthem before?
That is so good in all of hiscreation and the intricacies of
a butterfly never ceases to beamazing.
Am I right, sherry?
Do you guys have tons of blackbutterflies where you are?
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Well, I have to tell you, a couple years ago I'm
trying to think how old our sonwas.
He was still in elementaryschool.
He actually called me out tosee a black butterfly, because
he said the same thing that youdid and he knows the name of it.
I don't know the name of it.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
I can't think of it now, Right right.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
He got his cool name and he said the same thing.
He said, mom, these are so rarehe goes, you wouldn't believe
it.
I know exactly what you'retalking about because we were
admiring it too.
I think we were in Tennessee orwe had just gotten back from
Tennessee and he saw another onethis year already.
Because of our discussion aboutit a few years ago, I thought,
(04:51):
oh, wow, this really is not just.
Oh, mom, look at the butterfly,this is a really cool, big deal
.
Your screen reminded me, or mademe realize we are so much alike
.
We were interested earlier thisyear for vacation and we had
the privilege of having blackbears come visit us right up on
(05:14):
the cabin, on the porch of thecabin where we were staying.
Our son caught a video and I'mso embarrassed because I don't
usually talk in a high-pitched,childlike voice and he was on
the video going oh, I think itlikes us, like seriously.
I felt so ridiculous afterwardsthat I was so enthralled by
(05:36):
this bear whose nose was righton the screen and we were
literally nose to nose with thisbear and I was in heaven.
It was the best well, not thebest ever, but it was amazing,
God, like you said, theintricacies of just our bodies,
(05:56):
and then the intricacies of thecreation that God created for us
to enjoy.
It just blows me away all thetime and I never, ever, ever
want to take it for granted,ever.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
I know right, you just never want to take it for
granted and we just, oh mygoodness, if you sounded like a
little girl, I probably wouldhave sounded like I have no idea
, because I would have been soexcited I could just say both of
our voices mingling on yourvideotape and people going who
in the world?
Speaker 2 (06:26):
is that Exactly?
Speaker 1 (06:29):
You know, because I would have just loved, loved,
loved, loved, that you know,just being that up close and
personal with them, and I wouldhave been sorely tempted to open
up the window and try to touchit right, which I don't like.
No, no.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
That's what was so cool about it is we were outside
on the porch after dinnerplaying cornhole and they were
literally 10 feet away from usand we didn't even realize it.
And we were on the porchoutside until they got about
five feet away, and then we camein the house.
So I mean they were like rightthere with us and they weren't
(07:09):
aggressive, they weren't.
I mean they were like curiousand they were obviously wild
animals.
So you don't want to like piss,but it was so, so amazing, so
amazing.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
It was all God and that is the perfect way, right,
Because you're there, they'rethere, you're respecting their
wildness, but yet you're stillappreciating their beauty and
all that God has created them,right?
So, yeah, you know, it's notlike.
You know, you try to play withthem or do anything like that.
(07:42):
I mean, that would just becrazy, right, Because they are
wild animals and we need torespect that.
But that just adds to thebeauty, right?
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Well, the funny thing is is the very first day, so we
got their mother's day nightand we had gone.
Well, we checked out the cabinand then we went back into town
to get some supplies and we wereon our way back and we were all
looking at the mountain goingup to the cabin.
There's like sheer drop off, solike you really have to be
(08:12):
paying attention when you'redriving and I would never drive
it myself, my husband is amazingat it and so we were both
looking to the right, becausethat was the side that the
mountain dropped off on.
And then we were looking.
There were these helpkeepersthat were taking care of these
other cabins on our way up toours.
And I turned to look at myhusband and we were driving
(08:32):
really, really slowly becausethere were people out there and
dumpsters that we had to goaround and all kinds of stuff,
because they're building newhouses all the time.
But anyway, I turned to look atmy husband and he had his
window down because it wasbeautiful weather.
There was a bear right outsidehis window.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
I saw it and all I said was bear.
And he looked at me like thatand he turned and the bear was
literally in his face and it wasamazing.
And then that was the baby, Ithink.
And then the mom and the otherbaby were literally like five
feet away in the just in thelittle clearing of the woods
right past where the one was,right at his window.
(09:11):
It was insane, but it was sobeautiful, oh my gosh.
It was like probably thehighlight of the trip.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
And now I am completely envious and I am
right now thinking, hmm, I havegot to hijack one of their trips
one day, one year.
I have got to have a hobby,hobby and I and just make them
up there so I can have thesetype of experiences.
But these black bears like howawesome is that?
(09:42):
And for those of you who arejust joining in and wondering
like, hey, wait what?
Speaker 2 (09:48):
type of pie cast is this?
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Is this a discovery channel?
No, do you have indeed reached?
Speaker 2 (09:53):
a true pie cast.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Is this a true pie?
It's just that Sherry and Iwere just answering on about our
love of nature.
Our love of nature, you know,and how we just are in awe of it
and how we just hope to stay inawe of all the God's creation
(10:17):
and all the intricacies and thedetails and the little things
you know that make each andevery little creature that much
more awesome.
Right, you know I don't likespiders, I can't help but just
be in awe of their whips, right,and how they spin them, you
know, and you know justeverything that goes into that
(10:38):
for them to be able to do so, wetruly serve an awesome God.
And, speaking of God, we aregoing to continue our discussion
in this summer series, which iscalled the school tape letters.
We are going over some of thetopics that are covered in the
book, the school tape letters byCS Lewis.
(11:00):
That's last name is spelledL-E-W-I-S.
The book was, I believe,originally published in the
early 1940s, so it's a piece ofclassical literature.
It's not a very long book.
It's only like 31 letters tothe book and they're rather
short in comparison to the booksnowadays, but, excuse me, in
(11:22):
comparison to classicalliterature books, which could be
like very, very, very thick.
Now, this is not like that.
So, and again, it's just like31 letters.
I think there may be six, seven, eight, maybe maximum eight
paragraphs long.
And it's one and it's calledthe Screwtape letters because it
(11:44):
is about a demon namedScrewtape and he is writing
letters to his nephew, ron Wood,who is also a demon.
Uncle Screwtape is a head demonand a nephew Wormwood is like a
lower ranking demon, kind ofnew to the whole demon process
(12:05):
thing, and he's been assigned ahuman who is very new to the
faith, and Uncle Screwtape isjust trying to is giving tips
and advice and suggestions tohis nephew Wormwood about how to
handle his Christian so thatthe Christian does not end up in
God's camp but in Satan's house.
(12:26):
So, and that's basically whatthe Screwtape's letter is about.
We started this series on June 7.
So please, please, please,please, please go back and
listen to that episode, becausethere we give an overview, just
a very quick overview, of theScrewtape letters and also we
(12:48):
give tons of information.
But most importantly, we sharebiblical information and
scriptures on demons, who theyare, are they real and what does
the Bible have to say aboutthem and all of that.
So, and we cover that, like Isaid, in a very first episode in
(13:08):
June and I believe it's June 7,so you please go back and
listen to that if you have anyfurther questions about the
demons that we're talking aboutin this book.
Last week we went over letters 4and 5, which was about sincere
prayer and war War meaning.
(13:33):
Of course the book was writtenin the 1940s, so it's referring
to the wars that was going onback then and how nephew
Wormwood's Christian patientpretty much you know his initial
reactions and things to the warthis episode we are going to be
(13:53):
continuing with letters 5 and 6.
And letter 5 talks about thefocus of you know what Wormwood
should be focusing on and thefocus of his Christian human I
guess I should say maybe.
And then letter 6, which talksabout extremism.
(14:15):
But I also want to quickly add,before we kind of just delve
into those topics, that forthose of you who have really
just really been enjoying thisdialogue or well, you know these
episodes on CS Lewis and you'relike, hey, you know, I got some
(14:35):
things, I want to say, somethings, I want to add, some
things I want to talk about thenlet us know, send us your
thoughts, your insights, yourcommentary to wwwchiripicastcom
and we may include it, you know,in a future upcoming podcast.
But also we may create aTwitter space just to discuss
(14:58):
this topic.
And if we get at least 10people who send an email to
Chiripicast saying, hey, yes,I'm interested and oh, by the
way, here are my thoughts,insights and comments, yeah, if
we get at least 10, then wewould definitely consider
starting doing a Twitter spacefor everyone to just not just me
(15:19):
and Sherry talking about it,but getting everyone involved in
dialoguing about this book andthe topics that are covered.
Okay, so, again, welcome toChirination, and we are going to
continue our topic of theletters that are covered letters
(15:41):
four, excuse me, letters fiveand six and the screw tape
letters, which is letters.
Letter five is about focus andbasically they're well, actually
with five and six, because Ican kind of summarize both of
these pretty quick.
So, letters five letters letterfive is about, you know, focus
(16:03):
and letters six he talks screwtape and Uncle Warmwood talk
about extremism, and sobasically these are just
continuations of what was goingon in letters four and five,
which is where A head demon,uncle Screwtape, is telling
(16:28):
young, newer demon, nephewWormwood, to keep his Christian,
his newly assigned Christian,distracted and how easy that can
be, since you know, hisChristian is a very new
Christian and he talks about how, you know, keep his focus on
anything other than like real,sincere, genuine, heartfelt
(16:52):
prayer and that is kind of likeyou know.
And to get his focus onanything, anything other than a
God who created him and reallysearching his heart and calling
out to God and you know, andjust getting on his knees and
being humble in prayer, any andeverything.
He wants him to change hisfocus to anything and everything
(17:15):
that he can to kind of justreally keep him on, you know, on
a path to, you know, joiningthem in hell someday.
And so, basically, letter fiveis where it talks about focus,
is a continuation of that, andthen letter six, where it talks
about extremism, is kind ofcontinuation of you know, I'm
(17:39):
sorry, I'm saying letters fiveand six, I mean letters six and
seven, so please excuse me forthat.
This episode is about letterssix and seven.
Letter four was about sincereprayer, letter five was about
war, letter six is about focusand letters seven is about
extremism.
So I wanted to correct that forthose who may actually have a
(18:01):
book and may be following alongand be like Carol, what are you
talking about?
You're all so.
I just want to go ahead andcorrect that.
But any extreme is on part.
In letter seven, you know, it'sthe war again.
It's the 1940s and war isramping up and people are being
called up to war and it's verylikely that the young daemon,
(18:25):
nephew Warnwood, who's a youngdaemon, that his new Christian
patient, his you know human, isabout to be called up to war and
he wants him to.
You know, his uncle screw tapeis basically kind of telling him
, you know, to let his Christianhuman express his hatred for
(18:50):
the Germans onto his neighborswho may, you know, into his
neighbors or, you know, inthings like that, for example,
like you know, for example, like, are any of them German descent
, you know, something like thatyou know is basically, I think,
what he was, you know, gettingat, or if they're not, you know,
if they're in favor, you know,and things like that.
(19:10):
So basically it's aboutextremism and hatred and I guess
what popped out to me,especially in letter seven where
it talks about extremism,sherry, is, I don't know, it
seems like it's and I don't knowhow I and I don't know why
(19:36):
these two are just nowconnecting per se in my head.
But hatred and extremism you seewhat I'm saying, because uncle
screw tape is using thosetogether Like he's fueling the,
the, the, the emotion or thespirit of hatred, you know, into
(19:58):
extremism or or extremepatriotism, you know, and things
like that.
So, as I know, hatred is anemotion and something that we
definitely should avoid asChristians.
I don't always tend to align itwith extremism.
Is that the way you kind ofhave you?
Is that different for you,sherry?
Have you always just kind ofcombined it to?
(20:19):
I don't a lot of the people do,but I know that we can be upset
at some things and we could,you know, say like, oh my
goodness, I, I hate that orsomething like that, but I just
it's not always on the level ofextremism to me.
What is your view on hatred,sherry?
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Well, I guess I kind of feel like Nowadays people are
just extreme with everything,like they either really really
really love something or theyreally really really hate
something.
People, it feels as though,well, they put a distance Since
(20:57):
COVID happened I was explainingthis to a different friend the
other day.
It seems like pre-COVID, youhave 100 people.
If we have them, we're goingthrough something bad.
The other 50 were not, so theycould then support the 50 that
were COVID hit and everybody wasgoing through the same amount
(21:19):
of stress and nobody had thereserve to support and encourage
the other people.
Everyone was just kind of onsurvival mode.
They were kind of on we don'tknow what's happening.
We don't know what's going on.
We need to take care ofourselves.
We need to put our own oxygenmask on before we can even look
(21:39):
at or think about somebodyelse's oxygen mask.
And then, post-COVID again, itseems like the majority of
people are still in high stresssituations and there's very few
people who are not that are ableto then come and help.
And I think that it's the highstress that brings that
(22:01):
extremism either the extremelove or the extreme hate.
And so, as believers, yes,we're still in high stress mode
too.
But we have the secret weapon.
We have the weapon of hope, wehave the weapon of peace, we
have that weapon of we knowwho's going to win.
We have the weapon of mercy andgrace, and we need to use those
(22:23):
.
We need to not just talk aboutthem, we need to not just ask
God to give them to us, but weneed to actively use them to
help counteract the extremestress and extreme circumstances
that we're under Now.
I'm not saying that, asbelievers, we have everything.
Everything's hunky-dory too,too and we're not allowed to
(22:47):
experience grief, we're notallowed to experience loss,
we're not allowed to experienceanger, we're not allowed to
experience our emotions.
I feel like, in order to trulybe healthy, you have to
experience your emotions.
But we can avoid the majorextreme because we have God's
peace, god's hope, god's peace,god's love, god's mercy, and we
(23:11):
need, as Christians, more thanever, we need to display those
and be good representations ofJesus, so that those who need it
, those who are in the extremecategory, who are under the
extreme stress, who are underthe extreme weight of whatever
(23:32):
is burdening them, can see adifference and then come to God,
and God can give them the peace, the hope, the love.
It doesn't mean we'll walk itout perfectly, but we need to be
conscious, aware andintentional.
That's what I think.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Absolutely, and I love how you brought up the
pandemic, because in 2020, weweren't facing a World War, so
to speak, like World War IIIwasn't about to take place on a
global stage.
But, oh my goodness, you wouldhave thought it was right.
(24:14):
Because, no, yeah, you wouldhave thought it was because
people were drawing lines.
Oh my goodness, it was.
You know you were.
You know, someone says I wantto wear a mask and someone else
would say I don't want to wear amask.
And then all of a sudden, allof a sudden, you had like this
(24:34):
whole army against you for notwanting to wear one, right, you
know?
And then it's like you weren'tat war and by Bersa, you were
like I don't want to wear a mask, and then someone else said I
want to wear one, and then youstill had a whole army against
you and it was.
You know, it was justabsolutely insanity.
(24:56):
So it wasn't like a global warthat was about to happen, as in
you know, the nephew WormwoodChristian human was facing at
the time.
But it was, you know, it's moreon the level of war and this
was globally.
The pandemic was globally, andthat's why I say it was a whole
(25:18):
different type of war.
You know about how people werehandling it and talk about
extremism, because it wasn'tjust and just using the mask as
an example everyone just uses asan example, but just using that
for as using the mask usage asan example, people were very
(25:39):
extreme on either side.
It was like no one could be.
It just seemed like it was veryrare for someone to be content
with someone else doing oppositeof what they wanted, you know.
And it was like, for instance,that person A said, well, I'm
gonna wear a mask If I go tothis place, and in person B says
, yeah, you'll never catch mewearing a mask, I don't believe
(26:01):
the pandemic.
It's a, you know, it's all ahoax.
Is this, is that you know?
And everything else, andeverything else.
And for them to actually justsay, okay, cool, all right, well
, we're still going.
Right, yeah, we're still going.
But it became more of like anextremism, like what you're not
going to wear when you'reputting everybody's life in
danger.
Don't you know that?
You know.
(26:22):
And to other one, you know, tosomeone else, they're like
you're a conspiracy therapist.
How can you fall for this?
You know, it just became very,very extreme and I could just
only imagine, right, using thescrew tape letters as an example
, and Uncle Screw Tape, and, ifyou weren't, would like in a
(26:44):
spiritual, in a spiritual realm,how many little demonic minions
were out there, actively atwork on both sides, pumping up
the pumping up and fueling thehatred, pumping up and fueling
the fear, pumping up and fuelingthe anxiety, keeping everyone
(27:07):
focused on what everyone elsewas doing.
Okay, like he talks about in ayou know a couple of letters
that we've already covered.
Just keep the focus on whateveryone else was doing and not
so much on what was mostimportant, which was our, which
was our souls and our wellbeingand our relationships with God,
(27:30):
and even that was under attackin in in a pandemic, because
they were like, okay, well, youshouldn't go to church.
Well, no, I'm going to go tochurch.
Oh, no, how are you going to dothat?
You're going to be a superspreader, you're going to do
this, you're going to do that,you know, and people are like
what, what are you saying?
What are you talking about?
Everything just seems soextreme and, spiritually
(27:53):
speaking, in a spiritual world,it would have been just abs.
It would have been amazing,very, very, very scary, but
nonetheless amazing, to see allthe demonic minions at work on
both sides all over the globe.
(28:13):
What do you think about thespiritual aspect of all of that,
sherry?
Speaker 2 (28:19):
I completely, 100%, agree with you.
If we, as they sit here and wetalk about this group, take
letters, I think about how easyit is because we're so busy,
we're so stressed.
We live in a world that doesnot advocate for rest, does not
advocate for taking care ofourselves, does not advocate.
(28:41):
In the olden days, you had tosit and wait for the fire to
start before you could cookdinner.
You had to sit.
Oh yeah, you could walk places.
So you had your mind could restwhile you were walking, unless
you were worried about wildanimals and people killing you.
But you had rest woven intoyour day.
(29:03):
And people who try to rest orwho try to have rest woven into
their day today are condemned,are ridiculed, are told that
they're weak, they're lazy,whatever, whatever.
And so what I feel from this,the main theme or the underlying
(29:24):
theme, is that the demons, likethere's so much at play in the
supernatural realm, it's theselittle things that get us.
Not that he comes at us withthese big, huge things
necessarily.
Sometimes he does, sometimes hegets us with illnesses or
(29:46):
things like catastrophes, covid,stuff like that but it's the
little things, it's the littlecompromises, it's that.
What's my slope?
That one day you wake up andyou are further down than you
ever thought you would be, andit just like you said, to be
able to have our eyes open andsee the supernatural in what's
(30:08):
truly happening.
I think all of us would wake upand feel very differently and
act and make very differentchoices, which we should talk
about that next week when westart talking about the crops
and peaks and pleasure, becausethose are the topics that we're
going to have next week.
So I think we should carry thisconversation on next week and
(30:30):
just let people have that foodfor thought this week.
That what do you think Like?
Do you believe that there istruly angels and demons fighting
for the greater good?
Do you truly believe that thereis more than just what meets
the eye and, if so, what areyour thoughts on that?
Let us know if you want to haveyour own, if you want to join
(30:52):
in on the discussion, and we cando a Twitter what did you call
it?
Again, a Twitter feed, twitterspace, twitter space.
We can do a Twitter space aboutit, because we would love to
hear your.
I mean, there's nothing that Ilove more than to talk about
books and talk about topics andhave that back and forth
dialogue.
I love listening to otherpeople's opinions, I love
(31:14):
hearing what you think and Ilove just learning from other
people.
So if you want to join in onthe discussion and you want us
to have a group meet in July andAugust and September, then let
us know that you're interested.
Email us at cheerapodcast atgmailcom and let us know of your
(31:37):
interest in starting one ofthose.
Go over to CARES website,k-a-r-a-r-h-u-n-t dot com and
find out about her fiction books, her series, the Habakkuk
series Find out about prettysoon.
I think Lydia is going to be upon there.
People are going to be able tofind out more about that.
And just look around and get toknow Kara a little bit better.
(32:00):
Come over to my website, sherrySwawell dot com
C-H-E-R-I-S-W-A-L-W-E-L-L dotcom.
And if you want to stop atslippery slope, if you want to
grow a relationship with God,naturally on your own time table
, and just get to know Him moreintimately, I would encourage
(32:22):
you to check out the Jesus.
To me, everyday membership it'sless than the cup of coffee,
less than the price of a cup ofcoffee, a free, free drink for
the whole month, and I thinkthat you would be well.
You won't get the caffeine highor crash.
You won't get the sugar crashand you will just get a chance
(32:43):
to really get to know and growyour relationship with God.
And I don't know about you,kara, but today's time we need
to, we need to stay in the word,we need to be growing.
And in a way that is natural andon your time table, on your
pace.
It doesn't need to be somethingthat's forced, it doesn't need
(33:05):
to be something that's demanded.
It's just, the more we dig inand the more that we choose to
have that relationship with God,the more hungry he makes us for
things of Him and I, just Idon't want to lose that hunger.
I don't want to lose that aweof His creation and the bears
and the butterflies, and I don'twant to lose that hunger for
(33:27):
growing in.
Him.
So just a few things I wantedto encourage you all about.
John 1633,.
Jesus tells us that thesethings I have spoken to you,
that in me you may have peace Inthe world.
You will have tribulation, butbe of good cheer.
I have overcome the world.
We are so glad that you arehere today.
(33:48):
Come back next week.
We're going to talk about propsand peaks and pleasure.
Those are the two letters orchapters that we're going to
talk about next week.
Until then, have a great restof your week and enjoy your
Sabbath.
Hi and welcome to the True Up podcast.
I am your host, carole R Hunt,and with me is the amazing
Sherry Swalwell.
How are you doing today, sherry?
Speaker 2 (00:31):
I am doing great.
I can't believe that it'salready July.
I am loving the summer and notthinking about back to school,
even though it's already in ourfaces in the stores.
I am choosing to be intentionaland living in the moment, not
(00:52):
dreading what is coming ahead.
My tears are not bad, but Ijust love the pace of our
summers.
I love sitting out on the deck.
I love just all of it.
The bugs aren't quite as bad.
The corn is starting to grow.
I have morning walks with ouryoungest.
I just love the pace of summer.
(01:14):
I really, really do.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
I know it is amazing.
What I love more about thesummer is that early in the
morning, because the trees arenot full right, we have a
sugar-mape on our front yard andit has tons of branches.
It's early in the morning.
I now hear tons and tons ofbirds because a million of them
(01:40):
live in that tree.
I am talking as early as 4am.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Yes, there is nothing better than starting our day
that way.
We are the same way.
I think that is one of thereasons I love our early morning
walks.
They all Like.
Last year I noticed them forthe first time, then this year
if you just stop and listen,there are so many different
sounds to so many differentbirds.
I don't know.
(02:07):
It just really makes me longfor heaven, because it just
makes me think if God loves usso much to give us that now,
what is our life going to belike up there?
It blows me away.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
I know, it is the little things that.
Well, I guess I want to begrateful.
I don't think it's my age, Ithink it's just the fact that I
never cease to be amazed byGod's beauty right, god's beauty
.
And I wonder how many times Ijust ignored this when I was
(02:45):
younger.
But little things like seeingdifferent type of butterflies.
My husband would hear me squeeand I had done it not too long
ago.
I was in a laundry room.
We have a huge window in alaundry room and I was looking
out and there's some wildflowersthere and he heard me go.
(03:06):
Oh, my goodness, hey, pretty,pretty.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
I know he had to be like who is she talking?
Speaker 1 (03:11):
to In the laundry room and right out there just
dancing and pollinating aroundthe wildflowers and stuff.
It's a black butterfly.
They are not common here, butthey're not common If you know
what I mean.
They're not uncommon, butthey're still pretty rare to see
.
You don't see them every day.
(03:31):
Like you see the monarchs andall the other butterflies here
they're still, and this one wasso beautiful.
He was just out there justpollinating the flowers and
doing his business.
It stayed there, I think, forquite a while.
I think I'm going to get apicture too as well.
Just those little things.
(03:53):
Obviously, that's not my firsttime seeing a black butterfly,
but I'm like, how many times inthe past has I been all around
me and I just never even noticedthem before?
That is so good in all of hiscreation and the intricacies of
a butterfly never ceases to beamazing.
Am I right, sherry?
Do you guys have tons of blackbutterflies where you are?
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Well, I have to tell you, a couple years ago I'm
trying to think how old our sonwas.
He was still in elementaryschool.
He actually called me out tosee a black butterfly, because
he said the same thing that youdid and he knows the name of it.
I don't know the name of it.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
I can't think of it now, Right right.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
He got his cool name and he said the same thing.
He said, mom, these are so rarehe goes, you wouldn't believe
it.
I know exactly what you'retalking about because we were
admiring it too.
I think we were in Tennessee orwe had just gotten back from
Tennessee and he saw another onethis year already.
Because of our discussion aboutit a few years ago, I thought,
(04:51):
oh, wow, this really is not just.
Oh, mom, look at the butterfly,this is a really cool, big deal
.
Your screen reminded me, or mademe realize we are so much alike
.
We were interested earlier thisyear for vacation and we had
the privilege of having blackbears come visit us right up on
(05:14):
the cabin, on the porch of thecabin where we were staying.
Our son caught a video and I'mso embarrassed because I don't
usually talk in a high-pitched,childlike voice and he was on
the video going oh, I think itlikes us, like seriously.
I felt so ridiculous afterwardsthat I was so enthralled by
(05:36):
this bear whose nose was righton the screen and we were
literally nose to nose with thisbear and I was in heaven.
It was the best well, not thebest ever, but it was amazing,
God, like you said, theintricacies of just our bodies,
(05:56):
and then the intricacies of thecreation that God created for us
to enjoy.
It just blows me away all thetime and I never, ever, ever
want to take it for granted,ever.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
I know right, you just never want to take it for
granted and we just, oh mygoodness, if you sounded like a
little girl, I probably wouldhave sounded like I have no idea
, because I would have been soexcited I could just say both of
our voices mingling on yourvideotape and people going who
in the world?
Speaker 2 (06:26):
is that Exactly?
Speaker 1 (06:29):
You know, because I would have just loved, loved,
loved, loved, that you know,just being that up close and
personal with them, and I wouldhave been sorely tempted to open
up the window and try to touchit right, which I don't like.
No, no.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
That's what was so cool about it is we were outside
on the porch after dinnerplaying cornhole and they were
literally 10 feet away from usand we didn't even realize it.
And we were on the porchoutside until they got about
five feet away, and then we camein the house.
So I mean they were like rightthere with us and they weren't
(07:09):
aggressive, they weren't.
I mean they were like curiousand they were obviously wild
animals.
So you don't want to like piss,but it was so, so amazing, so
amazing.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
It was all God and that is the perfect way, right,
Because you're there, they'rethere, you're respecting their
wildness, but yet you're stillappreciating their beauty and
all that God has created them,right?
So, yeah, you know, it's notlike.
You know, you try to play withthem or do anything like that.
(07:42):
I mean, that would just becrazy, right, Because they are
wild animals and we need torespect that.
But that just adds to thebeauty, right?
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Well, the funny thing is is the very first day, so we
got their mother's day nightand we had gone.
Well, we checked out the cabinand then we went back into town
to get some supplies and we wereon our way back and we were all
looking at the mountain goingup to the cabin.
There's like sheer drop off, solike you really have to be
(08:12):
paying attention when you'redriving and I would never drive
it myself, my husband is amazingat it and so we were both
looking to the right, becausethat was the side that the
mountain dropped off on.
And then we were looking.
There were these helpkeepersthat were taking care of these
other cabins on our way up toours.
And I turned to look at myhusband and we were driving
(08:32):
really, really slowly becausethere were people out there and
dumpsters that we had to goaround and all kinds of stuff,
because they're building newhouses all the time.
But anyway, I turned to look atmy husband and he had his
window down because it wasbeautiful weather.
There was a bear right outsidehis window.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
I saw it and all I said was bear.
And he looked at me like thatand he turned and the bear was
literally in his face and it wasamazing.
And then that was the baby, Ithink.
And then the mom and the otherbaby were literally like five
feet away in the just in thelittle clearing of the woods
right past where the one was,right at his window.
(09:11):
It was insane, but it was sobeautiful, oh my gosh.
It was like probably thehighlight of the trip.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
And now I am completely envious and I am
right now thinking, hmm, I havegot to hijack one of their trips
one day, one year.
I have got to have a hobby,hobby and I and just make them
up there so I can have thesetype of experiences.
But these black bears like howawesome is that?
(09:42):
And for those of you who arejust joining in and wondering
like, hey, wait what?
Speaker 2 (09:48):
type of pie cast is this?
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Is this a discovery channel?
No, do you have indeed reached?
Speaker 2 (09:53):
a true pie cast.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Is this a true pie?
It's just that Sherry and Iwere just answering on about our
love of nature.
Our love of nature, you know,and how we just are in awe of it
and how we just hope to stay inawe of all the God's creation
(10:17):
and all the intricacies and thedetails and the little things
you know that make each andevery little creature that much
more awesome.
Right, you know I don't likespiders, I can't help but just
be in awe of their whips, right,and how they spin them, you
know, and you know justeverything that goes into that
(10:38):
for them to be able to do so, wetruly serve an awesome God.
And, speaking of God, we aregoing to continue our discussion
in this summer series, which iscalled the school tape letters.
We are going over some of thetopics that are covered in the
book, the school tape letters byCS Lewis.
(11:00):
That's last name is spelledL-E-W-I-S.
The book was, I believe,originally published in the
early 1940s, so it's a piece ofclassical literature.
It's not a very long book.
It's only like 31 letters tothe book and they're rather
short in comparison to the booksnowadays, but, excuse me, in
(11:22):
comparison to classicalliterature books, which could be
like very, very, very thick.
Now, this is not like that.
So, and again, it's just like31 letters.
I think there may be six, seven, eight, maybe maximum eight
paragraphs long.
And it's one and it's calledthe Screwtape letters because it
(11:44):
is about a demon namedScrewtape and he is writing
letters to his nephew, ron Wood,who is also a demon.
Uncle Screwtape is a head demonand a nephew Wormwood is like a
lower ranking demon, kind ofnew to the whole demon process
(12:05):
thing, and he's been assigned ahuman who is very new to the
faith, and Uncle Screwtape isjust trying to is giving tips
and advice and suggestions tohis nephew Wormwood about how to
handle his Christian so thatthe Christian does not end up in
God's camp but in Satan's house.
(12:26):
So, and that's basically whatthe Screwtape's letter is about.
We started this series on June 7.
So please, please, please,please, please go back and
listen to that episode, becausethere we give an overview, just
a very quick overview, of theScrewtape letters and also we
(12:48):
give tons of information.
But most importantly, we sharebiblical information and
scriptures on demons, who theyare, are they real and what does
the Bible have to say aboutthem and all of that.
So, and we cover that, like Isaid, in a very first episode in
(13:08):
June and I believe it's June 7,so you please go back and
listen to that if you have anyfurther questions about the
demons that we're talking aboutin this book.
Last week we went over letters 4and 5, which was about sincere
prayer and war War meaning.
(13:33):
Of course the book was writtenin the 1940s, so it's referring
to the wars that was going onback then and how nephew
Wormwood's Christian patientpretty much you know his initial
reactions and things to the warthis episode we are going to be
(13:53):
continuing with letters 5 and 6.
And letter 5 talks about thefocus of you know what Wormwood
should be focusing on and thefocus of his Christian human I
guess I should say maybe.
And then letter 6, which talksabout extremism.
(14:15):
But I also want to quickly add,before we kind of just delve
into those topics, that forthose of you who have really
just really been enjoying thisdialogue or well, you know these
episodes on CS Lewis and you'relike, hey, you know, I got some
(14:35):
things, I want to say, somethings, I want to add, some
things I want to talk about thenlet us know, send us your
thoughts, your insights, yourcommentary to wwwchiripicastcom
and we may include it, you know,in a future upcoming podcast.
But also we may create aTwitter space just to discuss
(14:58):
this topic.
And if we get at least 10people who send an email to
Chiripicast saying, hey, yes,I'm interested and oh, by the
way, here are my thoughts,insights and comments, yeah, if
we get at least 10, then wewould definitely consider
starting doing a Twitter spacefor everyone to just not just me
(15:19):
and Sherry talking about it,but getting everyone involved in
dialoguing about this book andthe topics that are covered.
Okay, so, again, welcome toChirination, and we are going to
continue our topic of theletters that are covered letters
(15:41):
four, excuse me, letters fiveand six and the screw tape
letters, which is letters.
Letter five is about focus andbasically they're well, actually
with five and six, because Ican kind of summarize both of
these pretty quick.
So, letters five letters letterfive is about, you know, focus
(16:03):
and letters six he talks screwtape and Uncle Warmwood talk
about extremism, and sobasically these are just
continuations of what was goingon in letters four and five,
which is where A head demon,uncle Screwtape, is telling
(16:28):
young, newer demon, nephewWormwood, to keep his Christian,
his newly assigned Christian,distracted and how easy that can
be, since you know, hisChristian is a very new
Christian and he talks about how, you know, keep his focus on
anything other than like real,sincere, genuine, heartfelt
(16:52):
prayer and that is kind of likeyou know.
And to get his focus onanything, anything other than a
God who created him and reallysearching his heart and calling
out to God and you know, andjust getting on his knees and
being humble in prayer, any andeverything.
He wants him to change hisfocus to anything and everything
(17:15):
that he can to kind of justreally keep him on, you know, on
a path to, you know, joiningthem in hell someday.
And so, basically, letter fiveis where it talks about focus,
is a continuation of that, andthen letter six, where it talks
about extremism, is kind ofcontinuation of you know, I'm
(17:39):
sorry, I'm saying letters fiveand six, I mean letters six and
seven, so please excuse me forthat.
This episode is about letterssix and seven.
Letter four was about sincereprayer, letter five was about
war, letter six is about focusand letters seven is about
extremism.
So I wanted to correct that forthose who may actually have a
(18:01):
book and may be following alongand be like Carol, what are you
talking about?
You're all so.
I just want to go ahead andcorrect that.
But any extreme is on part.
In letter seven, you know, it'sthe war again.
It's the 1940s and war isramping up and people are being
called up to war and it's verylikely that the young daemon,
(18:25):
nephew Warnwood, who's a youngdaemon, that his new Christian
patient, his you know human, isabout to be called up to war and
he wants him to.
You know, his uncle screw tapeis basically kind of telling him
, you know, to let his Christianhuman express his hatred for
(18:50):
the Germans onto his neighborswho may, you know, into his
neighbors or, you know, inthings like that, for example,
like you know, for example, like, are any of them German descent
, you know, something like thatyou know is basically, I think,
what he was, you know, gettingat, or if they're not, you know,
if they're in favor, you know,and things like that.
(19:10):
So basically it's aboutextremism and hatred and I guess
what popped out to me,especially in letter seven where
it talks about extremism,sherry, is, I don't know, it
seems like it's and I don't knowhow I and I don't know why
(19:36):
these two are just nowconnecting per se in my head.
But hatred and extremism you seewhat I'm saying, because uncle
screw tape is using thosetogether Like he's fueling the,
the, the, the emotion or thespirit of hatred, you know, into
(19:58):
extremism or or extremepatriotism, you know, and things
like that.
So, as I know, hatred is anemotion and something that we
definitely should avoid asChristians.
I don't always tend to align itwith extremism.
Is that the way you kind ofhave you?
Is that different for you,sherry?
Have you always just kind ofcombined it to?
(20:19):
I don't a lot of the people do,but I know that we can be upset
at some things and we could,you know, say like, oh my
goodness, I, I hate that orsomething like that, but I just
it's not always on the level ofextremism to me.
What is your view on hatred,sherry?
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Well, I guess I kind of feel like Nowadays people are
just extreme with everything,like they either really really
really love something or theyreally really really hate
something.
People, it feels as though,well, they put a distance Since
(20:57):
COVID happened I was explainingthis to a different friend the
other day.
It seems like pre-COVID, youhave 100 people.
If we have them, we're goingthrough something bad.
The other 50 were not, so theycould then support the 50 that
were COVID hit and everybody wasgoing through the same amount
(21:19):
of stress and nobody had thereserve to support and encourage
the other people.
Everyone was just kind of onsurvival mode.
They were kind of on we don'tknow what's happening.
We don't know what's going on.
We need to take care ofourselves.
We need to put our own oxygenmask on before we can even look
(21:39):
at or think about somebodyelse's oxygen mask.
And then, post-COVID again, itseems like the majority of
people are still in high stresssituations and there's very few
people who are not that are ableto then come and help.
And I think that it's the highstress that brings that
(22:01):
extremism either the extremelove or the extreme hate.
And so, as believers, yes,we're still in high stress mode
too.
But we have the secret weapon.
We have the weapon of hope, wehave the weapon of peace, we
have that weapon of we knowwho's going to win.
We have the weapon of mercy andgrace, and we need to use those
(22:23):
.
We need to not just talk aboutthem, we need to not just ask
God to give them to us, but weneed to actively use them to
help counteract the extremestress and extreme circumstances
that we're under Now.
I'm not saying that, asbelievers, we have everything.
Everything's hunky-dory too,too and we're not allowed to
(22:47):
experience grief, we're notallowed to experience loss,
we're not allowed to experienceanger, we're not allowed to
experience our emotions.
I feel like, in order to trulybe healthy, you have to
experience your emotions.
But we can avoid the majorextreme because we have God's
peace, god's hope, god's peace,god's love, god's mercy, and we
(23:11):
need, as Christians, more thanever, we need to display those
and be good representations ofJesus, so that those who need it
, those who are in the extremecategory, who are under the
extreme stress, who are underthe extreme weight of whatever
(23:32):
is burdening them, can see adifference and then come to God,
and God can give them the peace, the hope, the love.
It doesn't mean we'll walk itout perfectly, but we need to be
conscious, aware andintentional.
That's what I think.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Absolutely, and I love how you brought up the
pandemic, because in 2020, weweren't facing a World War, so
to speak, like World War IIIwasn't about to take place on a
global stage.
But, oh my goodness, you wouldhave thought it was right.
(24:14):
Because, no, yeah, you wouldhave thought it was because
people were drawing lines.
Oh my goodness, it was.
You know you were.
You know, someone says I wantto wear a mask and someone else
would say I don't want to wear amask.
And then all of a sudden, allof a sudden, you had like this
(24:34):
whole army against you for notwanting to wear one, right, you
know?
And then it's like you weren'tat war and by Bersa, you were
like I don't want to wear a mask, and then someone else said I
want to wear one, and then youstill had a whole army against
you and it was.
You know, it was justabsolutely insanity.
(24:56):
So it wasn't like a global warthat was about to happen, as in
you know, the nephew WormwoodChristian human was facing at
the time.
But it was, you know, it's moreon the level of war and this
was globally.
The pandemic was globally, andthat's why I say it was a whole
(25:18):
different type of war.
You know about how people werehandling it and talk about
extremism, because it wasn'tjust and just using the mask as
an example everyone just uses asan example, but just using that
for as using the mask usage asan example, people were very
(25:39):
extreme on either side.
It was like no one could be.
It just seemed like it was veryrare for someone to be content
with someone else doing oppositeof what they wanted, you know.
And it was like, for instance,that person A said, well, I'm
gonna wear a mask If I go tothis place, and in person B says
, yeah, you'll never catch mewearing a mask, I don't believe
(26:01):
the pandemic.
It's a, you know, it's all ahoax.
Is this, is that you know?
And everything else, andeverything else.
And for them to actually justsay, okay, cool, all right, well
, we're still going.
Right, yeah, we're still going.
But it became more of like anextremism, like what you're not
going to wear when you'reputting everybody's life in
danger.
Don't you know that?
You know.
(26:22):
And to other one, you know, tosomeone else, they're like
you're a conspiracy therapist.
How can you fall for this?
You know, it just became very,very extreme and I could just
only imagine, right, using thescrew tape letters as an example
, and Uncle Screw Tape, and, ifyou weren't, would like in a
(26:44):
spiritual, in a spiritual realm,how many little demonic minions
were out there, actively atwork on both sides, pumping up
the pumping up and fueling thehatred, pumping up and fueling
the fear, pumping up and fuelingthe anxiety, keeping everyone
(27:07):
focused on what everyone elsewas doing.
Okay, like he talks about in ayou know a couple of letters
that we've already covered.
Just keep the focus on whateveryone else was doing and not
so much on what was mostimportant, which was our, which
was our souls and our wellbeingand our relationships with God,
(27:30):
and even that was under attackin in in a pandemic, because
they were like, okay, well, youshouldn't go to church.
Well, no, I'm going to go tochurch.
Oh, no, how are you going to dothat?
You're going to be a superspreader, you're going to do
this, you're going to do that,you know, and people are like
what, what are you saying?
What are you talking about?
Everything just seems soextreme and, spiritually
(27:53):
speaking, in a spiritual world,it would have been just abs.
It would have been amazing,very, very, very scary, but
nonetheless amazing, to see allthe demonic minions at work on
both sides all over the globe.
(28:13):
What do you think about thespiritual aspect of all of that,
sherry?
Speaker 2 (28:19):
I completely, 100%, agree with you.
If we, as they sit here and wetalk about this group, take
letters, I think about how easyit is because we're so busy,
we're so stressed.
We live in a world that doesnot advocate for rest, does not
advocate for taking care ofourselves, does not advocate.
(28:41):
In the olden days, you had tosit and wait for the fire to
start before you could cookdinner.
You had to sit.
Oh yeah, you could walk places.
So you had your mind could restwhile you were walking, unless
you were worried about wildanimals and people killing you.
But you had rest woven intoyour day.
(29:03):
And people who try to rest orwho try to have rest woven into
their day today are condemned,are ridiculed, are told that
they're weak, they're lazy,whatever, whatever.
And so what I feel from this,the main theme or the underlying
(29:24):
theme, is that the demons, likethere's so much at play in the
supernatural realm, it's theselittle things that get us.
Not that he comes at us withthese big, huge things
necessarily.
Sometimes he does, sometimes hegets us with illnesses or
(29:46):
things like catastrophes, covid,stuff like that but it's the
little things, it's the littlecompromises, it's that.
What's my slope?
That one day you wake up andyou are further down than you
ever thought you would be, andit just like you said, to be
able to have our eyes open andsee the supernatural in what's
(30:08):
truly happening.
I think all of us would wake upand feel very differently and
act and make very differentchoices, which we should talk
about that next week when westart talking about the crops
and peaks and pleasure, becausethose are the topics that we're
going to have next week.
So I think we should carry thisconversation on next week and
(30:30):
just let people have that foodfor thought this week.
That what do you think Like?
Do you believe that there istruly angels and demons fighting
for the greater good?
Do you truly believe that thereis more than just what meets
the eye and, if so, what areyour thoughts on that?
Let us know if you want to haveyour own, if you want to join
(30:52):
in on the discussion, and we cando a Twitter what did you call
it?
Again, a Twitter feed, twitterspace, twitter space.
We can do a Twitter space aboutit, because we would love to
hear your.
I mean, there's nothing that Ilove more than to talk about
books and talk about topics andhave that back and forth
dialogue.
I love listening to otherpeople's opinions, I love
(31:14):
hearing what you think and Ilove just learning from other
people.
So if you want to join in onthe discussion and you want us
to have a group meet in July andAugust and September, then let
us know that you're interested.
Email us at cheerapodcast atgmailcom and let us know of your
(31:37):
interest in starting one ofthose.
Go over to CARES website,k-a-r-a-r-h-u-n-t dot com and
find out about her fiction books, her series, the Habakkuk
series Find out about prettysoon.
I think Lydia is going to be upon there.
People are going to be able tofind out more about that.
And just look around and get toknow Kara a little bit better.
(32:00):
Come over to my website, sherrySwawell dot com
C-H-E-R-I-S-W-A-L-W-E-L-L dotcom.
And if you want to stop atslippery slope, if you want to
grow a relationship with God,naturally on your own time table
, and just get to know Him moreintimately, I would encourage
(32:22):
you to check out the Jesus.
To me, everyday membership it'sless than the cup of coffee,
less than the price of a cup ofcoffee, a free, free drink for
the whole month, and I thinkthat you would be well.
You won't get the caffeine highor crash.
You won't get the sugar crashand you will just get a chance
(32:43):
to really get to know and growyour relationship with God.
And I don't know about you,kara, but today's time we need
to, we need to stay in the word,we need to be growing.
And in a way that is natural andon your time table, on your
pace.
It doesn't need to be somethingthat's forced, it doesn't need
(33:05):
to be something that's demanded.
It's just, the more we dig inand the more that we choose to
have that relationship with God,the more hungry he makes us for
things of Him and I, just Idon't want to lose that hunger.
I don't want to lose that aweof His creation and the bears
and the butterflies, and I don'twant to lose that hunger for
(33:27):
growing in.
Him.
So just a few things I wantedto encourage you all about.
John 1633,.
Jesus tells us that thesethings I have spoken to you,
that in me you may have peace Inthe world.
You will have tribulation, butbe of good cheer.
I have overcome the world.
We are so glad that you arehere today.
(33:48):
Come back next week.
We're going to talk about propsand peaks and pleasure.
Those are the two letters orchapters that we're going to
talk about next week.
Until then, have a great restof your week and enjoy your
Sabbath.
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