August 25, 2022 • 30 mins
Restaurant Coach/Consultant and former Chef Jonathan Ruby 'turns the table' on the toxic culinary culture in our food and beverage profession and how you, too, can create a workplace #culture that everyone wants to work for.
We debunk the veneration of self-sacrifice in today's restaurant culture and reveal how taking care of yourself is job #1 in the #newrstaurantculture.
To find out more about Jonathan Ruby and his mission, click here.
Turning the Table Is the most progressive weekly podcast for today's food and beverage industry, featuring staff-centric operating solutions for restaurants in the #newhospitalityculture.
Join Jim Taylor of Benchmark Sixty and Adam Lamb as they "turn the tables" on the prevailing operating assumptions of running a restaurant in favor of innovative solutions to our industry's most persistent challenges.
Sponsored by Benchmark Sixty Restaurant Services
Check out the videocast on
This show is sponsored by Benchmark Sixty; check out their unique staff retention solution.
In partnership with Realignment Hospitality
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome back to anotherepisode of turning the tables.
(00:04):
And I am your humble host, Adam Lamb.
Typically Jim Taylor ofbenchmark 60 joins us today.
But I think right about thistime, him and his wife must be
welcoming their very first child.
So that's really.
We do this hashtag lunchbox live streamevery week here on Thursday at noon.
(00:25):
For some reason I put in 1205 start time.
So I apologize for that.
And I'm happy to announce that turning thetable is now officially a podcast and it's
available on iTunes, Spotify in everywherethat you get your podcasts on the show.
We talk about staff centricsolutions to restaurant operat.
(00:46):
And it's a short show, 30 minutes.
It's meant to give you a big punchin the mouth as something to think
about and hopefully take back intoyour operation and test because we're
all about making these solutions live.
We don't wanna just talk about 'em.
We wanna make 'em happen in our industry.
And today I'm very happyto welcome to the show.
Chef Jonathan Ruby.
Who's also a, a solutionsexpert with benchmark 60
(01:11):
morning, Jonathan, how are you?
Hey Adam.
Thanks for having.
Wanted to make sure that before we goany further, I mentioned that this show
as always is sponsored by benchmark 60.
Jonathan is one of our solutionsexperts, partners with benchmark 60.
And he brings a wealth of experience,not only as a chef, but also as a
restaurant tour operations manager.
(01:33):
And my Thomas is excited because.
She can see us and Jonathan, let mejust start off and ask for the folks
in the audience who perhaps don'tknow you as well as they should.
Can you give us kind of a littlethumbnail sketch of your background
and some of your early influences?
Yeah, sure.
(01:53):
I like I'm, I'm fortunate.
I grew up with restaurantbusiness a little bit.
My grandparents had a couple places whenI was, when I was growing up, but they
had a pizza place and it was kind of likepark pizza place, park, convenience store.
And then they also had a seafoodrestaurant having been from Nova Scotia.
So, you know, as before I was even.
Probably legally allowed to work.
You know, when I was like 10 to12, I was Boston tables and washing
(02:13):
dishes and helping them with prep.
So I kind of began my admiration forthe restaurant business, you know,
having gotten to see the, the culture,especially the culture in the kitchen.
And they're all, you know, alittle bit like pirate back there.
And I really did and kind ofsolidified my, my, my passion for that.
It just like turned out I loved cooking.
So I, at that point, you know,I did work experience, got jobs.
(02:34):
In restaurants when I was in high school.
And then at that point I went on tothe culinary Institute, Canada and
prince over island here in Canada.
And that was just a really,that was a great experience.
You know, the first yearwas, it was fantastic.
It was really like, kind ofedit the curve, having had that
past restaurant experience.
And so it really did like.
It gave me a little bit of an edge.
That's kinda like what I teach a lotof the people, if that school really,
(02:54):
I got to really maximize my educationwith my past restaurant experience
because when everybody was still learningto bring law, their first onion, you
know, I hammered through that andthen blown a pig set kind of thing.
So.
From there.
You know, I, I joined the juniorchef's association of Canada.
My became an alumnirepresentative for our school.
I met Michael Smith.
Who's like a, kind of a localCanadian celebrity chef used
(03:16):
to chef at large chef at home.
I helped him launch at the very best ofchef at home, his cookbook him as well
as I helped him at the athletes villagefor the 2010 Olympics Whistler, which was
a really great opportunity from there.
I kind of just went on to work at.
A few Michelin star restaurants, likenotably what bean in, in Manhattan,
which kind of pigeonholed me asthat poisoner for a little pitch.
(03:36):
But I, I was happy to do it a bit.
Love seafood.
And I, you know, I movedaround from island island.
I lived in the Caribbean fora little bit in St marks.
And then, you know, I lived inVictoria, like beautiful Vancouver
island here in, in Canada.
Working at some I am resorts and stuff.
And then also, you know,I did some cool TRO.
Trying to, you know, test the watersat different Michelin for restaurants
(03:56):
and really like kind of my pursuitto, of that like ingredient, knowledge
and technique, like, you know, HKAand glee was one of those places that
really was, it kind of transformedmy idea, my approach to food and you
know, my obsession with bread with thatamazing bread cart they have there.
So yeah, just littlesnapshot and throw my life.
I ended up here in Edmonton, Alberta.
I actually came here toget shoulder surgery.
(04:18):
Next thing you.
I'm a restaurant consultant.
So , I it's been great.
I, I did transition my career at onepoint, you know, I had a, I had a
daughter and I, I realized that like,you know, spending time with her
and spending time with family was.
Was just as equally, it became just asequally as important as my career and
my career was kind of, you know, at theforefront of everything at the beginning.
(04:38):
So I, and at that point I had startedmeeting some corporate executives for
progressional groups and got into fooddevelopment and kind of big picture
thinking when it comes to the restaurantbusiness, which then obviously you had
me question a lot of the things thatwe were doing and, you know, and that,
that's what segued me into the, theconsulting business or working with
benchmark 60 is that I just, the hope isto build a best for better restaurant.
(05:01):
And congratulations on thebirth of your daughter.
How old is she now?
She's sick.
She's going on grade two.
She's turning seven in October, butyeah, so it's been a little while ILA.
Yeah.
And previous to the show, we weretalking a little bit and we thought
we might discuss the demise of thetoxic culinary culture, or as we're
planning it in her crazy little ways.
(05:21):
Do you remember in your career being kindof victimized by a toxic war culture?
I know Canada is a much soft,sweeter place in a lot of ways.
I'm married to a Canadian.
So it's constant conversation about,you know, how different the cultures are
between the United States and Canada.
But I'm just curious if you couldkinda reflect on culture within the
(05:42):
back of the house environment, thatdidn't necessarily seem so supportive.
Yeah.
Oh, I mean the restaurant industry is,is not primarily dominated Canadians.
So I think it's like, it's a pretty goodmix of, you know, different cultures
and different backgrounds when it comesto how we approach culture in business.
And so I, I definitely I've experiencedit, you know, it's that kind of that
old adage where it's, you know, I,back in my day or like I, when I
(06:06):
was coming up as a chef, you know,they weren't that nice to us, which.
Which was true.
Like, I I've seen a mirror of things.
People were still throwing stuff around.
This was kind of the, the heyday ofGordon Ramsey, really, where that was
the culture, like chefs were, they werehardass and they had a hard line and it
was say, yes, Shep and do it and, youknow, show up if you're not 15 minutes
early or late, some, some of it's not bad.
(06:27):
Some of it's, you know, it wascharacter building, but I definitely
experienced it, you know, like.
I didn't even know what the word meant.
I was called Mamoa for the first, like whoI was a teenager and I didn't even know
what it, I didn't even know what it meant.
That's what they called me inthe kitchen, but it, they were
calling me asshole the whole time.
So I, I, yeah, it's,it's, it's unfortunate.
I, it was just all that I ever knewat at the time, but I was coming up.
(06:49):
It's definitely been asignificant shift, right.
Because the, the workforce not willingto put up with that kind of stuff
and the way that we kinda suffered.
What do you, where do you thinkwe draw the line between say
character building and abuse?
Well, just there is no, thereis no like line there's it's
(07:10):
just one or the other I?
Yeah, like it's it's it's not okay.
It's I don't, I didn't evenreally understand why it was okay.
Or where that stem from.
It came from, you know, juststress, whether it was like money
or trying to boost cover count.
Likely, it was just a bunch of peoplewho had their own, you know, struggles
(07:30):
or had gone through their own levelof abuse and just, it was just the way
that, you know, give on to others thesame way that they had received it.
So, yeah, like there it is a prettyit's it's I think it's clearly
define line it's it was, it wasabuse and it, and it is, and I think.
For some reason it was, it was just, itlike kind of, I don't know, accepted as
(07:54):
part of the industry, but I'm happy tosay that it's, it's not like that anymore.
Right.
And I know things havebeen changing for a while.
And also there was, you know,they say that changing culture
within an organization takesabout a minimum of seven years.
And the industry is a big oldbattleship and nobody ever
turns the battleship on a dime.
(08:15):
Is there anything that youcan point to in your career?
When you decided that you wanted tomake the industry a better place.
And if you can just help medefine what better means.
Yeah.
Okay.
So what, what I was, I was just asequally as subject to that punitive sort
of nature that I, I grew up in, right?
Like that's what I was taught to do.
(08:36):
Like we, you say yes, chef and do it, andit doesn't matter what my demeanor was,
or it was all about, you know, food focus.
And I realized as well too, though, thatI wasn't, I personally wasn't getting
what I wanted out of the business.
Like I wasn.
You know, I didn't havethe worklife balance one.
I was saying, I was saying no to allthe family events and the wedding.
He said, oh, I'd stop.
And I was working 80 hour work weeksand I was tired and I was grumpy.
(08:57):
You know, I, I didn't like peoplethat didn't do well at their jobs.
Like it was just a peanut nature.
And then all of a sudden I realized thatall the things that were affecting me
in my life and the things that I didn'tnecessarily like about our industry
was something that I could change.
Like I could offer that to.
The teams that worked for me,you know, I've you, and you
(09:18):
likely heard it as well before.
I didn't necessarily want my daughterto join the restaurant industry.
Like I, I, I I'd met other guys.
Like I was a guy I recentlyhired whose dad is a chef.
He's a pretty notablechef here in this area.
And I asked them, I'm like,Hey, do you wanna become a chef?
Like your dad and said, well, mydad has one rule to be whatever
I want, except for a chef.
. And it's, it's one of thosemoments where I was just like,
(09:40):
this isn't this isn't right.
Something that I'm so passionate about.
So.
Fiercely in love with, I didn't wantthat for my daughter, which I, I
was a bit of a disconnect for me.
And I said, why does it way?
And that was really that pivotalmoment for me was, wanted the world
for, and why can't this be right.
It's almost limit.
And to
(10:04):
industry like, like in realterms, what does that mean?
Well, I, I think like, you know, Even justlooking statistically at, in what, for
Canada, you know, the, the vacancy, thejob vacancy in our industry is about 14%.
But if you also look like, you know,wages are up, but they're only up
about they're up about 12%, which forall us stock restaurant operators,
(10:27):
that's, that's significant increase.
But if you look at the statsoverall, as, as a business, we're
the lowest paying industry, oneof the lowest paying industries.
Out there.
Like it's, it's justnot attractive anymore.
And I, that's where I wanted, I wantedto try to see if we can, we're not
getting not, everybody's getting thesame level of education, you know,
it's not, there's not always, you know,not every position is transferable
(10:51):
to different restaurant groups.
I think there's a little bit ofdisorganization with our industry.
And I think that if we work togetheror be more of these podcasts, reach
out and, and, and speak more as acommunity, I think we, we have an
opportunity to make that shift for us.
I agree.
I think we're completely aligned in thatyou're now working for benchmark 60 and
just jump off, you know, Jemiah Thomas,just put in a thing that said, you
(11:15):
know, we make up most of the co economy.
I think the restaurant industry still isthe number one employer and the world.
So it's kind of weird that thelargest single employer or industry
in the world does such a poor.
At at equity, you know, whether that'sequity and pay equity and position.
I often remind folks that my veryfirst executive chef was a woman.
(11:36):
My very first sous chef was a woman.
So I've had a great deal of appreciationfor what women have had to deal with
in the industry, people of color.
For those of you who don't know I'm ofmixed race, my mother's Cuban and my
dad's was American or American born.
Although I don't necessarilylook like it so I can pass on the
privilege of my color, but it's still.
(11:57):
You know, one of these things where I've,you know, been the butt of many jokes
all the way back to, you know, elementaryschool and, and back into the profession.
But I would often hear, you know,really shitty comments by other people,
you know, as they're confiding inme, not necessarily them realizing
that, you know, I have this respectfor the women in the, in the
(12:19):
industry as well as people of color.
And for a long time, I would justkind of sit there and go, ha yeah.
Okay.
And not really stand up and it tookme losing my not losing, but taking
a job as an executive sous chef,a huge working under a very good
friend of mine who needed some helpin this particular organization.
I hadn't been in a sous chef for, youknow, 20 HES, but not to have that
(12:43):
mantle of responsibility as being theexecutive chef, freed me up to do stuff
like run around and have a thousandconversations a day with people.
So very often the chef would comein and he'd lay down the law.
And then I would, you know, walkback to these departments and
kind of smooth everything over.
And that's when I realizedthat communication.
(13:03):
Job, one of our particular positionsand it becomes difficult when you're
trying to communicate the same thingto maybe people of, you know, certainly
two different sexes or now three or fourdifferent sexual orientations all with
their own history, all with their ownfamily, because it used to be that all
we did was hire a pair of hands, youknow, or a position on the schedule.
(13:24):
Okay.
I need to grow cook for Saturday.
Who am I gonna put in there?
And I think now it'sturning towards no, we hire.
Full functional human beings.
And we have to deal with them at thatparticular way, because to not be aware of
what's going on in their personal lives,sets us up to be kind of deaf or tone deaf
to same thing that affects us, you know?
(13:48):
So how so it being part of benchmark60, and I guess I just wanted to
say that out loud, but being partof benchmark 60, we're bringing
a particular different type of.
Changing the perspective of a lotof operators, chefs, managers,
DMS, so that they start lookingat their staff as assets, rather
(14:11):
than as debits to the bottom line.
And as someone who is working withthis productivity metrics, what have
you seen insofar as the way that thatstarts to shape an operator's view?
And how he, he or she startstreating their staff differently.
Well, I mean, I know that'sa big loaded question.
(14:34):
Do that yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Where do I begin?
I , you know, the labor modelhasn't really changed much.
Like it, it really hasn't, it's beendecades of, of the same hundred years,
the same restaurant really model.
And, you know, it started with theADE system, but like, Where is the,
(14:56):
where, where is the innovation then?
And, you know, like we, we areFort bothers lo in the culinary
world, like Scopia, you know,creating our brigade system.
And there was a reason that they didthat, and it was trying to create a
better restaurant environment thateverybody knew who was doing what by when.
Right.
It was the, the big,the first action plan.
And I think we're overdue.
(15:16):
We're well overdue to create a,a new action plan, a new who does
what by when in restaurant business.
And I think.
Our, the holistic approach atlooking at the people, the number
one commodity in your business,focusing on them and, and their,
their happiness is just gonna attracta better, a better restaurant world.
Like we even selfishly, like let'screate a better restaurant worlds.
(15:39):
We have better restaurants to goto, you know, since post pandemic,
you know, it's the kind of run joke.
Like everything's just gotten a littlebit worse, you know, like, and it's.
Everybody's a little bit shorts staffed.
Everybody's a little tired.
Everybody's stressed out.
Everybody's worried about moneyand inflation, all these things.
And so the key is really justlike remembering that it's,
it's not a grilled hook.
(15:59):
It's a person, it's the, it's thepeople that you work with and, and
you ask them what they want and findout how to get it and, and just make
a better, better space at environmentsomewhere that's attractive to work.
And I think it's, it's less of like,we're not doing them a favor by coming,
getting them to come work for us.
It's the other way around.
Right.
And we.
Or else we don't make profit,we don't have the business.
(16:21):
And, and so with benchmark 60, takinga holistic approach by looking at
it a little bit differently, wethink about like focusing on work
and, and really focusing on thepeople also not only make us as, as
profitable as we always have been,but create a better work environment.
And, and then, you know what,everybody crying, labor shortage,
you don't have to cry labor shortage.
You get to keep the people that you have.
(16:42):
And then they're out theretelling everybody the great of
a workspace they've got and thenthat'll just track more talent.
And then everybody.
I I know benchmark sixties, famoustagline is retention is the new cool.
And for those who are maybe notnecessarily familiar with what that
actually means is that retention isactually focusing on retention is
(17:05):
step one in creating a great workplaceculture and community, but it also
becomes a point of attraction for thoseout on the street that are actually
looking for a place to be treated well.
Everybody knows what happenedduring that pandemic.
We lost millions and millions of jobs.
Some folks went to other industries,some folks did not come back, but
(17:28):
you know, the burnt chef project dida survey, not too long ago that said
that, you know, 64% of everybodyleft the industry planned on coming
back within the next 12 to 18 months.
So these are people who obviouslylove the industry, love what they
do, but they just couldn't put upwith a bullshit any much, any longer.
First off.
(17:48):
I think we gotta say a big shout out,thank you to them and for standing for
what they believed in, because that haswoken up a whole lot of people who perhaps
were again, kind of tone, deaf to Ze orthe demands of the associates when they're
like, you know, things have to get better.
Well, that's why I love calling, youknow, COVID the great reset, you know,
(18:10):
it, wasn't the great resignation.
It's the great reset.
And it's our respons.
If we're wary enough toactually do something about it.
That's what so charged me up about myfirst conversations with a gym and this
productivity metrics, because I realizedthat this was kind of the back door to
showing operators a number one that you'renot, you don't have to give up profit.
(18:33):
You don't have to give up margins,but actually this is an opportunity
for you to realize money.
That's just being left on the.
Right that you can capture andthen reinvest in your people.
So I think that that's probably oneof the most revolutionary things that
I'd heard in a long time and realizethat a lot of the conversation around
(18:54):
community culture and all that kind ofstuff actually begins with management who
are invested in really looking at theirstaff, managing their workload better.
And then communicating that to thestaff in such a way that they get it.
Holy crap, man, this, youknow, this company really care.
Because there are very few metrics forlike, oh yeah, we really care about you.
(19:16):
Oh yeah, sure.
And now I'm just gonna have to put myhead down and just keep crunching again.
So, because that's theonly way to get through it.
And I know that there are somefolks out there in the industry who
are gonna listen to this and thinkit's all pie in the sky, right?
Oh, really?
You're gonna give serversbenefits, you know, shit like this.
Yes.
You.
You absolutely can, if you can findthat cash, why wouldn't you do that?
(19:41):
Like what would be in your mind, anobjection from an operator who wouldn't
want to take care of their people better?
Yeah, the, you know, I think where someof it comes from is that like our own
past experience, you know, like when Iwas a wine cook, I didn't get benefits.
I made, you know, $10 an hour at,you know, I worked ridiculous hours
and I didn't get paid overtime.
(20:02):
And I think some of that comes some ofthe decision making from now the, the
now restaurant owners is some of thatcomes from that past shared experience.
You know, like why, why shouldn'tthis person have to fight to
the top the same way I did.
And, and it, it just, it's,it's just broken really.
Like it's, it's not.
It's not, that's not the way thatthe, our new workforce is going.
(20:24):
They're not gonna accept thosethings the same way that we
did and unfortunately did.
Right.
And we just need to come up with new waysto make them hap make 'em happy really.
And in the end, it's just,there's, it's one simple sentence.
It's cheaper to keep the people up.
Ah, do you know what the average isin Canada right now for having to to.
(20:48):
Higher and train staff average.
Do you know the average cost kinda thing?
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's, I would say like anywhere from 1200to $2,000 an employee, and then as, as
an investment to get 'em in train them,you know, depending on the operation
that could be, you know, lesser, lesser,depending on also a position as well.
(21:09):
But it's, it's always asignificant, it's a risk.
Like you're now all of a suddenhiring somebody, you don't.
And, and you have to try to sauce'em out and figure them out and
find out what makes them tick.
And, you know, although like there'ssome easy ways or easier ways to do
that now, basically asking them whatthey want, but I it's, you know,
it's still, it's, it's an investmentto hire and train more people.
And I, that revolving door,you're just, you know, it's,
(21:31):
it's exponential at that point.
So it's, it's always the, themost successful restaurant groups
that I've ever with or you know,I've had the pleasure of like
chatting with, is that they're.
Their pockets are deep with people.
You know, I I've met vice presidents thatserve as dishwashers, and those are the
companies that typically are the mostsuccessful, at least in my experience, you
(21:51):
know, they're the ones that are constantlyhave a, have a rotating door are the
ones that are always are struggling.
And they're the ones typically havethe questions as how do we keep our
people or how do we find good people?
And I.
Often the answer is you already have them.
You just need to invest in them.
Can you, can you talk quickly?
And, and I know that we're gettingshort on time, but I don't, I
(22:12):
don't wanna rush you because Ithink this is really important.
You mentioned earlier in our conversationthat the industry itself is a little
bit fractured and wonky on, like,how do you build skill that actually
transfer to, to other markets?
Can you talk a little bit about that?
Yeah.
Well, I.
Our our industry.
You can have a director of operations,you know, for us, you know, a small two
(22:36):
unit business, and then you can havedirector operations for a 30 unit business
or director of operations for a hotel.
Although they all fall withinthe hospitality industry.
That's kind of what I was alluding to isthat their skill, their education, their
background, their ability to transferthose skills to another even hospitality.
Is, I think there's like,there's too much of a gap.
(22:57):
It's not enough of a standardthere's, you know, one operating
system, they become an expert on.
So they're good at reading thedata and understanding it and being
able to communicate that with theirteams, once you transfer that.
And, you know, I went through alittle bit as myself even it's that,
you know, once you move into a newgroup, a new culture, a new mission
statement and, and the new operatingsystems and new appeal or SOPs and all
(23:20):
that, it's, there's a learning curve.
That's steep, like extremely.
And I think we should be doing, weshould be focusing more on the education
of the, of those entry level partners.
You know, you know, we bring intoour business and, and, and spend
the same level of investment.
They're they're alsoa higher level of pay.
They're expecting benefits.
They're expecting what allthe other industries are.
(23:40):
And, you know, if you look atother, you know, careers that you
can take, you have to spend fouryears in university to do it.
And, and what we're, what I wouldthink is that just there needs to
be more education in our business.
There needs to be more standardizationacross like what these I've I've
hired people who are general managers,chefs, and directors of operations.
And.
(24:01):
It's, they're not always the same.
It's not it's and which isn't a bad thing.
And like new sets ofeyes, new ideas is great.
Sure.
But it's like, will theybe able to do the job?
And that's the disconnect.
And I think, you know, the restaurantindustry to kind of comment on,
you know, transferable skillsinto maybe different businesses.
It, it, it, I think.
Fresh operators typically are probablysome of the best operators in any
(24:24):
business, because maybe we we'vebeen grown to be these Jackal trades.
You know, like there's not likethere's not on office spaces where
you gotta come in and fix a dishwasheror, or fix the plumbing or put out
a fire or deal with staff shortages.
You know, it's, I think ourabilities are skill sets are so
broad that it, it, it would be.
I think if we continue to invest ineducation and ization of our industry,
(24:44):
then we, we will be able to open upmore and more doors for everyone.
And to you.
That education piece.
Are you also referring to training?
Like there's, there's one thingabout education, you know, outside
of the industry or prior to comingin the industry, but are we doing
enough, you know, at the unit levelto train the people that we have.
(25:06):
I mean, you talked about this retention,you know, taking care of your good people.
At what point does training becomean it's the, the most imperative
thing that, yeah, like we should beEV like often, you know, as operator.
We can't see the forest for the trees.
We're in the thing that worksalways in the weeds really and,
and you're always busy and youalways have something better to do.
(25:28):
And I think if we're not trying totrain ourselves outta those things,
then we're not gonna grow our community.
We're not gonna grow arestaurant or a business.
Like it's, that's what I teach everyoneis that don't do anything yourself that
you can't teach and, and take everymoment and every opportunity to teach it.
Also, they want, they wanna wear,they want, want advancement and.
You're gonna just kill twobirds, one stone there.
(25:50):
That's kind of going against the grainof the pride of somebody who's come
up through the ranks, gotten theirjacket with the embroidery on it.
Now I'm the executive chef.
Now I'm the apex predator inthe, in the, in the fish tank.
There are a lot of guys and galsout there that wouldn't necessarily
(26:12):
train their people with all theirspecial skills because they think it.
Job security fear.
Yeah.
Which is a shame because I I've alwaysfelt that my job as the executive
chef was to train myself out of a job.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, it's not too much jobsecurity, but you know, how else, how
(26:32):
else are the people that I work withgonna be able to have the skills to go
on, to become chefs in their own rights.
Well, I mean, unless you'rehappy, just be in like having
to do everything all the time.
You know, there's, there's a part ofit where I think for most leaders,
there's a turning point in your careerwhere you realize that you can't
(26:53):
do it all, you can't do everythingand you're eventually gonna burn.
And you're also gonna get more outof the people that work with you
than, than you can undo yourself.
And I, you know, it.
It's just not an optionthey, that they wanna learn.
And, and I encourage everybody toask why, and you should be trying
(27:14):
to work yourself out of a job.
That's that's also the only way thatyou're gonna get yourself ahead.
You have an army of people, allstepping the same direction, as
you all believe in the same missionstatement, all fighting the same
battle for like, or you end with you.
That's that's gonna get you further aheadin your career than you'll be by doing it.
So, what I'm hearing you say is itdoesn't necessarily always have to back
or hip or knee surgery or the birthof a child for you to smarten up and
(27:38):
realize that there are better thingsto do with your time than being, you
know, tied to the tied to the stove.
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
Jonathan, we have just a secondleft and if you had just one little.
For our operators who are gonnago back, you know, into their
restaurants or their kitchens.
What's a little piece of wisdom thatyou can leave them with that maybe will
cause them to change their perspective.
(28:00):
I think, I think the biggest, oneof our biggest obstacles in this
business is we're afraid of whatour, our team members are gonna say.
I think what I, what I oftencoach operators is that just
ask them what they want.
It's simple.
Just go to them, ask themwhat they're looking.
Ask to look like about their, aboutwhere they work and what it is
that they wanted, where they were.
I think we're just, we're typicallyjust too afraid of what the answer's
(28:23):
gonna be and not knowing how to do that.
And I think it's, you know, the more wehave these conversations and the more
that we you know, spend our outreachand connect with more people, the better
we are in answering those questions.
And the less fearful we have tobe about asking though, I think
that's an excellent place to stop.
And if someone wants to learnmore about you and connect
with you, how do they do that?
(28:43):
Jonathan?
For sure.
Yeah.
So you can find me on LinkedIn.
I'm also part of the benchmark 60 group.
So you can reach me atjonathan@benchmarksixty.com or
Jonathan Ruby LinkedIn there loveto connect sounds perfect, man.
Jonathan, thanks so much for joining uson this episode of turning the table.
And for those of you who are stillwith us next week, we're gonna have
(29:05):
leadership development coach and mentor.
Alison Ann on as our guest.
And I think Jim Taylormay or may not be back.
I mean, he, if he's smart, you know, he'llstay home because we at benchmark 60.
Yes.
We also recognize that the newdads get to have parental leave.
we're on the cutting edge.
(29:25):
Thanks very much folks.
We really appreciate you joiningus, please like share and comment
and we'll answer every single one.
Thank you very much until next week.
Thanks for joining us on thisepisode of turning the table with
me, Adam Lamb and Jim Taylor.
This episode was sponsored by benchmark60 we're on a mission to change
(29:46):
the food and beverage industry byfocusing on staff, mental health and
wellbeing by forecasting and activelymanaging workload productivity.
Over 200 restaurants and food andbeverage operations have discovered
for themselves how to increased staffretention and become a preferred employer
in their market by using our proprietary.
If you'd like to have an operationalculture that everybody wants to work
(30:08):
for, then check out benchmark 60on the web@www.benchmarksixty.com.
Thanks for taking the time to bewith us and the courage to try
new things for the restaurant.
Profession's oldest problems.
Turning the table is aproduction of realignment media.
Welcome back to anotherepisode of turning the tables.
(00:04):
And I am your humble host, Adam Lamb.
Typically Jim Taylor ofbenchmark 60 joins us today.
But I think right about thistime, him and his wife must be
welcoming their very first child.
So that's really.
We do this hashtag lunchbox live streamevery week here on Thursday at noon.
(00:25):
For some reason I put in 1205 start time.
So I apologize for that.
And I'm happy to announce that turning thetable is now officially a podcast and it's
available on iTunes, Spotify in everywherethat you get your podcasts on the show.
We talk about staff centricsolutions to restaurant operat.
(00:46):
And it's a short show, 30 minutes.
It's meant to give you a big punchin the mouth as something to think
about and hopefully take back intoyour operation and test because we're
all about making these solutions live.
We don't wanna just talk about 'em.
We wanna make 'em happen in our industry.
And today I'm very happyto welcome to the show.
Chef Jonathan Ruby.
Who's also a, a solutionsexpert with benchmark 60
(01:11):
morning, Jonathan, how are you?
Hey Adam.
Thanks for having.
Wanted to make sure that before we goany further, I mentioned that this show
as always is sponsored by benchmark 60.
Jonathan is one of our solutionsexperts, partners with benchmark 60.
And he brings a wealth of experience,not only as a chef, but also as a
restaurant tour operations manager.
(01:33):
And my Thomas is excited because.
She can see us and Jonathan, let mejust start off and ask for the folks
in the audience who perhaps don'tknow you as well as they should.
Can you give us kind of a littlethumbnail sketch of your background
and some of your early influences?
Yeah, sure.
(01:53):
I like I'm, I'm fortunate.
I grew up with restaurantbusiness a little bit.
My grandparents had a couple places whenI was, when I was growing up, but they
had a pizza place and it was kind of likepark pizza place, park, convenience store.
And then they also had a seafoodrestaurant having been from Nova Scotia.
So, you know, as before I was even.
Probably legally allowed to work.
You know, when I was like 10 to12, I was Boston tables and washing
(02:13):
dishes and helping them with prep.
So I kind of began my admiration forthe restaurant business, you know,
having gotten to see the, the culture,especially the culture in the kitchen.
And they're all, you know, alittle bit like pirate back there.
And I really did and kind ofsolidified my, my, my passion for that.
It just like turned out I loved cooking.
So I, at that point, you know,I did work experience, got jobs.
(02:34):
In restaurants when I was in high school.
And then at that point I went on tothe culinary Institute, Canada and
prince over island here in Canada.
And that was just a really,that was a great experience.
You know, the first yearwas, it was fantastic.
It was really like, kind ofedit the curve, having had that
past restaurant experience.
And so it really did like.
It gave me a little bit of an edge.
That's kinda like what I teach a lotof the people, if that school really,
(02:54):
I got to really maximize my educationwith my past restaurant experience
because when everybody was still learningto bring law, their first onion, you
know, I hammered through that andthen blown a pig set kind of thing.
So.
From there.
You know, I, I joined the juniorchef's association of Canada.
My became an alumnirepresentative for our school.
I met Michael Smith.
Who's like a, kind of a localCanadian celebrity chef used
(03:16):
to chef at large chef at home.
I helped him launch at the very best ofchef at home, his cookbook him as well
as I helped him at the athletes villagefor the 2010 Olympics Whistler, which was
a really great opportunity from there.
I kind of just went on to work at.
A few Michelin star restaurants, likenotably what bean in, in Manhattan,
which kind of pigeonholed me asthat poisoner for a little pitch.
(03:36):
But I, I was happy to do it a bit.
Love seafood.
And I, you know, I movedaround from island island.
I lived in the Caribbean fora little bit in St marks.
And then, you know, I lived inVictoria, like beautiful Vancouver
island here in, in Canada.
Working at some I am resorts and stuff.
And then also, you know,I did some cool TRO.
Trying to, you know, test the watersat different Michelin for restaurants
(03:56):
and really like kind of my pursuitto, of that like ingredient, knowledge
and technique, like, you know, HKAand glee was one of those places that
really was, it kind of transformedmy idea, my approach to food and you
know, my obsession with bread with thatamazing bread cart they have there.
So yeah, just littlesnapshot and throw my life.
I ended up here in Edmonton, Alberta.
I actually came here toget shoulder surgery.
(04:18):
Next thing you.
I'm a restaurant consultant.
So , I it's been great.
I, I did transition my career at onepoint, you know, I had a, I had a
daughter and I, I realized that like,you know, spending time with her
and spending time with family was.
Was just as equally, it became just asequally as important as my career and
my career was kind of, you know, at theforefront of everything at the beginning.
(04:38):
So I, and at that point I had startedmeeting some corporate executives for
progressional groups and got into fooddevelopment and kind of big picture
thinking when it comes to the restaurantbusiness, which then obviously you had
me question a lot of the things thatwe were doing and, you know, and that,
that's what segued me into the, theconsulting business or working with
benchmark 60 is that I just, the hope isto build a best for better restaurant.
(05:01):
And congratulations on thebirth of your daughter.
How old is she now?
She's sick.
She's going on grade two.
She's turning seven in October, butyeah, so it's been a little while ILA.
Yeah.
And previous to the show, we weretalking a little bit and we thought
we might discuss the demise of thetoxic culinary culture, or as we're
planning it in her crazy little ways.
(05:21):
Do you remember in your career being kindof victimized by a toxic war culture?
I know Canada is a much soft,sweeter place in a lot of ways.
I'm married to a Canadian.
So it's constant conversation about,you know, how different the cultures are
between the United States and Canada.
But I'm just curious if you couldkinda reflect on culture within the
(05:42):
back of the house environment, thatdidn't necessarily seem so supportive.
Yeah.
Oh, I mean the restaurant industry is,is not primarily dominated Canadians.
So I think it's like, it's a pretty goodmix of, you know, different cultures
and different backgrounds when it comesto how we approach culture in business.
And so I, I definitely I've experiencedit, you know, it's that kind of that
old adage where it's, you know, I,back in my day or like I, when I
(06:06):
was coming up as a chef, you know,they weren't that nice to us, which.
Which was true.
Like, I I've seen a mirror of things.
People were still throwing stuff around.
This was kind of the, the heyday ofGordon Ramsey, really, where that was
the culture, like chefs were, they werehardass and they had a hard line and it
was say, yes, Shep and do it and, youknow, show up if you're not 15 minutes
early or late, some, some of it's not bad.
(06:27):
Some of it's, you know, it wascharacter building, but I definitely
experienced it, you know, like.
I didn't even know what the word meant.
I was called Mamoa for the first, like whoI was a teenager and I didn't even know
what it, I didn't even know what it meant.
That's what they called me inthe kitchen, but it, they were
calling me asshole the whole time.
So I, I, yeah, it's,it's, it's unfortunate.
I, it was just all that I ever knewat at the time, but I was coming up.
(06:49):
It's definitely been asignificant shift, right.
Because the, the workforce not willingto put up with that kind of stuff
and the way that we kinda suffered.
What do you, where do you thinkwe draw the line between say
character building and abuse?
Well, just there is no, thereis no like line there's it's
(07:10):
just one or the other I?
Yeah, like it's it's it's not okay.
It's I don't, I didn't evenreally understand why it was okay.
Or where that stem from.
It came from, you know, juststress, whether it was like money
or trying to boost cover count.
Likely, it was just a bunch of peoplewho had their own, you know, struggles
(07:30):
or had gone through their own levelof abuse and just, it was just the way
that, you know, give on to others thesame way that they had received it.
So, yeah, like there it is a prettyit's it's I think it's clearly
define line it's it was, it wasabuse and it, and it is, and I think.
For some reason it was, it was just, itlike kind of, I don't know, accepted as
(07:54):
part of the industry, but I'm happy tosay that it's, it's not like that anymore.
Right.
And I know things havebeen changing for a while.
And also there was, you know,they say that changing culture
within an organization takesabout a minimum of seven years.
And the industry is a big oldbattleship and nobody ever
turns the battleship on a dime.
(08:15):
Is there anything that youcan point to in your career?
When you decided that you wanted tomake the industry a better place.
And if you can just help medefine what better means.
Yeah.
Okay.
So what, what I was, I was just asequally as subject to that punitive sort
of nature that I, I grew up in, right?
Like that's what I was taught to do.
(08:36):
Like we, you say yes, chef and do it, andit doesn't matter what my demeanor was,
or it was all about, you know, food focus.
And I realized as well too, though, thatI wasn't, I personally wasn't getting
what I wanted out of the business.
Like I wasn.
You know, I didn't havethe worklife balance one.
I was saying, I was saying no to allthe family events and the wedding.
He said, oh, I'd stop.
And I was working 80 hour work weeksand I was tired and I was grumpy.
(08:57):
You know, I, I didn't like peoplethat didn't do well at their jobs.
Like it was just a peanut nature.
And then all of a sudden I realized thatall the things that were affecting me
in my life and the things that I didn'tnecessarily like about our industry
was something that I could change.
Like I could offer that to.
The teams that worked for me,you know, I've you, and you
(09:18):
likely heard it as well before.
I didn't necessarily want my daughterto join the restaurant industry.
Like I, I, I I'd met other guys.
Like I was a guy I recentlyhired whose dad is a chef.
He's a pretty notablechef here in this area.
And I asked them, I'm like,Hey, do you wanna become a chef?
Like your dad and said, well, mydad has one rule to be whatever
I want, except for a chef.
. And it's, it's one of thosemoments where I was just like,
(09:40):
this isn't this isn't right.
Something that I'm so passionate about.
So.
Fiercely in love with, I didn't wantthat for my daughter, which I, I
was a bit of a disconnect for me.
And I said, why does it way?
And that was really that pivotalmoment for me was, wanted the world
for, and why can't this be right.
It's almost limit.
And to
(10:04):
industry like, like in realterms, what does that mean?
Well, I, I think like, you know, Even justlooking statistically at, in what, for
Canada, you know, the, the vacancy, thejob vacancy in our industry is about 14%.
But if you also look like, you know,wages are up, but they're only up
about they're up about 12%, which forall us stock restaurant operators,
(10:27):
that's, that's significant increase.
But if you look at the statsoverall, as, as a business, we're
the lowest paying industry, oneof the lowest paying industries.
Out there.
Like it's, it's justnot attractive anymore.
And I, that's where I wanted, I wantedto try to see if we can, we're not
getting not, everybody's getting thesame level of education, you know,
it's not, there's not always, you know,not every position is transferable
(10:51):
to different restaurant groups.
I think there's a little bit ofdisorganization with our industry.
And I think that if we work togetheror be more of these podcasts, reach
out and, and, and speak more as acommunity, I think we, we have an
opportunity to make that shift for us.
I agree.
I think we're completely aligned in thatyou're now working for benchmark 60 and
just jump off, you know, Jemiah Thomas,just put in a thing that said, you
(11:15):
know, we make up most of the co economy.
I think the restaurant industry still isthe number one employer and the world.
So it's kind of weird that thelargest single employer or industry
in the world does such a poor.
At at equity, you know, whether that'sequity and pay equity and position.
I often remind folks that my veryfirst executive chef was a woman.
(11:36):
My very first sous chef was a woman.
So I've had a great deal of appreciationfor what women have had to deal with
in the industry, people of color.
For those of you who don't know I'm ofmixed race, my mother's Cuban and my
dad's was American or American born.
Although I don't necessarilylook like it so I can pass on the
privilege of my color, but it's still.
(11:57):
You know, one of these things where I've,you know, been the butt of many jokes
all the way back to, you know, elementaryschool and, and back into the profession.
But I would often hear, you know,really shitty comments by other people,
you know, as they're confiding inme, not necessarily them realizing
that, you know, I have this respectfor the women in the, in the
(12:19):
industry as well as people of color.
And for a long time, I would justkind of sit there and go, ha yeah.
Okay.
And not really stand up and it tookme losing my not losing, but taking
a job as an executive sous chef,a huge working under a very good
friend of mine who needed some helpin this particular organization.
I hadn't been in a sous chef for, youknow, 20 HES, but not to have that
(12:43):
mantle of responsibility as being theexecutive chef, freed me up to do stuff
like run around and have a thousandconversations a day with people.
So very often the chef would comein and he'd lay down the law.
And then I would, you know, walkback to these departments and
kind of smooth everything over.
And that's when I realizedthat communication.
(13:03):
Job, one of our particular positionsand it becomes difficult when you're
trying to communicate the same thingto maybe people of, you know, certainly
two different sexes or now three or fourdifferent sexual orientations all with
their own history, all with their ownfamily, because it used to be that all
we did was hire a pair of hands, youknow, or a position on the schedule.
(13:24):
Okay.
I need to grow cook for Saturday.
Who am I gonna put in there?
And I think now it'sturning towards no, we hire.
Full functional human beings.
And we have to deal with them at thatparticular way, because to not be aware of
what's going on in their personal lives,sets us up to be kind of deaf or tone deaf
to same thing that affects us, you know?
(13:48):
So how so it being part of benchmark60, and I guess I just wanted to
say that out loud, but being partof benchmark 60, we're bringing
a particular different type of.
Changing the perspective of a lotof operators, chefs, managers,
DMS, so that they start lookingat their staff as assets, rather
(14:11):
than as debits to the bottom line.
And as someone who is working withthis productivity metrics, what have
you seen insofar as the way that thatstarts to shape an operator's view?
And how he, he or she startstreating their staff differently.
Well, I mean, I know that'sa big loaded question.
(14:34):
Do that yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Where do I begin?
I , you know, the labor modelhasn't really changed much.
Like it, it really hasn't, it's beendecades of, of the same hundred years,
the same restaurant really model.
And, you know, it started with theADE system, but like, Where is the,
(14:56):
where, where is the innovation then?
And, you know, like we, we areFort bothers lo in the culinary
world, like Scopia, you know,creating our brigade system.
And there was a reason that they didthat, and it was trying to create a
better restaurant environment thateverybody knew who was doing what by when.
Right.
It was the, the big,the first action plan.
And I think we're overdue.
(15:16):
We're well overdue to create a,a new action plan, a new who does
what by when in restaurant business.
And I think.
Our, the holistic approach atlooking at the people, the number
one commodity in your business,focusing on them and, and their,
their happiness is just gonna attracta better, a better restaurant world.
Like we even selfishly, like let'screate a better restaurant worlds.
(15:39):
We have better restaurants to goto, you know, since post pandemic,
you know, it's the kind of run joke.
Like everything's just gotten a littlebit worse, you know, like, and it's.
Everybody's a little bit shorts staffed.
Everybody's a little tired.
Everybody's stressed out.
Everybody's worried about moneyand inflation, all these things.
And so the key is really justlike remembering that it's,
it's not a grilled hook.
(15:59):
It's a person, it's the, it's thepeople that you work with and, and
you ask them what they want and findout how to get it and, and just make
a better, better space at environmentsomewhere that's attractive to work.
And I think it's, it's less of like,we're not doing them a favor by coming,
getting them to come work for us.
It's the other way around.
Right.
And we.
Or else we don't make profit,we don't have the business.
(16:21):
And, and so with benchmark 60, takinga holistic approach by looking at
it a little bit differently, wethink about like focusing on work
and, and really focusing on thepeople also not only make us as, as
profitable as we always have been,but create a better work environment.
And, and then, you know what,everybody crying, labor shortage,
you don't have to cry labor shortage.
You get to keep the people that you have.
(16:42):
And then they're out theretelling everybody the great of
a workspace they've got and thenthat'll just track more talent.
And then everybody.
I I know benchmark sixties, famoustagline is retention is the new cool.
And for those who are maybe notnecessarily familiar with what that
actually means is that retention isactually focusing on retention is
(17:05):
step one in creating a great workplaceculture and community, but it also
becomes a point of attraction for thoseout on the street that are actually
looking for a place to be treated well.
Everybody knows what happenedduring that pandemic.
We lost millions and millions of jobs.
Some folks went to other industries,some folks did not come back, but
(17:28):
you know, the burnt chef project dida survey, not too long ago that said
that, you know, 64% of everybodyleft the industry planned on coming
back within the next 12 to 18 months.
So these are people who obviouslylove the industry, love what they
do, but they just couldn't put upwith a bullshit any much, any longer.
First off.
(17:48):
I think we gotta say a big shout out,thank you to them and for standing for
what they believed in, because that haswoken up a whole lot of people who perhaps
were again, kind of tone, deaf to Ze orthe demands of the associates when they're
like, you know, things have to get better.
Well, that's why I love calling, youknow, COVID the great reset, you know,
(18:10):
it, wasn't the great resignation.
It's the great reset.
And it's our respons.
If we're wary enough toactually do something about it.
That's what so charged me up about myfirst conversations with a gym and this
productivity metrics, because I realizedthat this was kind of the back door to
showing operators a number one that you'renot, you don't have to give up profit.
(18:33):
You don't have to give up margins,but actually this is an opportunity
for you to realize money.
That's just being left on the.
Right that you can capture andthen reinvest in your people.
So I think that that's probably oneof the most revolutionary things that
I'd heard in a long time and realizethat a lot of the conversation around
(18:54):
community culture and all that kind ofstuff actually begins with management who
are invested in really looking at theirstaff, managing their workload better.
And then communicating that to thestaff in such a way that they get it.
Holy crap, man, this, youknow, this company really care.
Because there are very few metrics forlike, oh yeah, we really care about you.
(19:16):
Oh yeah, sure.
And now I'm just gonna have to put myhead down and just keep crunching again.
So, because that's theonly way to get through it.
And I know that there are somefolks out there in the industry who
are gonna listen to this and thinkit's all pie in the sky, right?
Oh, really?
You're gonna give serversbenefits, you know, shit like this.
Yes.
You.
You absolutely can, if you can findthat cash, why wouldn't you do that?
(19:41):
Like what would be in your mind, anobjection from an operator who wouldn't
want to take care of their people better?
Yeah, the, you know, I think where someof it comes from is that like our own
past experience, you know, like when Iwas a wine cook, I didn't get benefits.
I made, you know, $10 an hour at,you know, I worked ridiculous hours
and I didn't get paid overtime.
(20:02):
And I think some of that comes some ofthe decision making from now the, the
now restaurant owners is some of thatcomes from that past shared experience.
You know, like why, why shouldn'tthis person have to fight to
the top the same way I did.
And, and it, it just, it's,it's just broken really.
Like it's, it's not.
It's not, that's not the way thatthe, our new workforce is going.
(20:24):
They're not gonna accept thosethings the same way that we
did and unfortunately did.
Right.
And we just need to come up with new waysto make them hap make 'em happy really.
And in the end, it's just,there's, it's one simple sentence.
It's cheaper to keep the people up.
Ah, do you know what the average isin Canada right now for having to to.
(20:48):
Higher and train staff average.
Do you know the average cost kinda thing?
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's, I would say like anywhere from 1200to $2,000 an employee, and then as, as
an investment to get 'em in train them,you know, depending on the operation
that could be, you know, lesser, lesser,depending on also a position as well.
(21:09):
But it's, it's always asignificant, it's a risk.
Like you're now all of a suddenhiring somebody, you don't.
And, and you have to try to sauce'em out and figure them out and
find out what makes them tick.
And, you know, although like there'ssome easy ways or easier ways to do
that now, basically asking them whatthey want, but I it's, you know,
it's still, it's, it's an investmentto hire and train more people.
And I, that revolving door,you're just, you know, it's,
(21:31):
it's exponential at that point.
So it's, it's always the, themost successful restaurant groups
that I've ever with or you know,I've had the pleasure of like
chatting with, is that they're.
Their pockets are deep with people.
You know, I I've met vice presidents thatserve as dishwashers, and those are the
companies that typically are the mostsuccessful, at least in my experience, you
(21:51):
know, they're the ones that are constantlyhave a, have a rotating door are the
ones that are always are struggling.
And they're the ones typically havethe questions as how do we keep our
people or how do we find good people?
And I.
Often the answer is you already have them.
You just need to invest in them.
Can you, can you talk quickly?
And, and I know that we're gettingshort on time, but I don't, I
(22:12):
don't wanna rush you because Ithink this is really important.
You mentioned earlier in our conversationthat the industry itself is a little
bit fractured and wonky on, like,how do you build skill that actually
transfer to, to other markets?
Can you talk a little bit about that?
Yeah.
Well, I.
Our our industry.
You can have a director of operations,you know, for us, you know, a small two
(22:36):
unit business, and then you can havedirector operations for a 30 unit business
or director of operations for a hotel.
Although they all fall withinthe hospitality industry.
That's kind of what I was alluding to isthat their skill, their education, their
background, their ability to transferthose skills to another even hospitality.
Is, I think there's like,there's too much of a gap.
(22:57):
It's not enough of a standardthere's, you know, one operating
system, they become an expert on.
So they're good at reading thedata and understanding it and being
able to communicate that with theirteams, once you transfer that.
And, you know, I went through alittle bit as myself even it's that,
you know, once you move into a newgroup, a new culture, a new mission
statement and, and the new operatingsystems and new appeal or SOPs and all
(23:20):
that, it's, there's a learning curve.
That's steep, like extremely.
And I think we should be doing, weshould be focusing more on the education
of the, of those entry level partners.
You know, you know, we bring intoour business and, and, and spend
the same level of investment.
They're they're alsoa higher level of pay.
They're expecting benefits.
They're expecting what allthe other industries are.
(23:40):
And, you know, if you look atother, you know, careers that you
can take, you have to spend fouryears in university to do it.
And, and what we're, what I wouldthink is that just there needs to
be more education in our business.
There needs to be more standardizationacross like what these I've I've
hired people who are general managers,chefs, and directors of operations.
And.
(24:01):
It's, they're not always the same.
It's not it's and which isn't a bad thing.
And like new sets ofeyes, new ideas is great.
Sure.
But it's like, will theybe able to do the job?
And that's the disconnect.
And I think, you know, the restaurantindustry to kind of comment on,
you know, transferable skillsinto maybe different businesses.
It, it, it, I think.
Fresh operators typically are probablysome of the best operators in any
(24:24):
business, because maybe we we'vebeen grown to be these Jackal trades.
You know, like there's not likethere's not on office spaces where
you gotta come in and fix a dishwasheror, or fix the plumbing or put out
a fire or deal with staff shortages.
You know, it's, I think ourabilities are skill sets are so
broad that it, it, it would be.
I think if we continue to invest ineducation and ization of our industry,
(24:44):
then we, we will be able to open upmore and more doors for everyone.
And to you.
That education piece.
Are you also referring to training?
Like there's, there's one thingabout education, you know, outside
of the industry or prior to comingin the industry, but are we doing
enough, you know, at the unit levelto train the people that we have.
(25:06):
I mean, you talked about this retention,you know, taking care of your good people.
At what point does training becomean it's the, the most imperative
thing that, yeah, like we should beEV like often, you know, as operator.
We can't see the forest for the trees.
We're in the thing that worksalways in the weeds really and,
and you're always busy and youalways have something better to do.
(25:28):
And I think if we're not trying totrain ourselves outta those things,
then we're not gonna grow our community.
We're not gonna grow arestaurant or a business.
Like it's, that's what I teach everyoneis that don't do anything yourself that
you can't teach and, and take everymoment and every opportunity to teach it.
Also, they want, they wanna wear,they want, want advancement and.
You're gonna just kill twobirds, one stone there.
(25:50):
That's kind of going against the grainof the pride of somebody who's come
up through the ranks, gotten theirjacket with the embroidery on it.
Now I'm the executive chef.
Now I'm the apex predator inthe, in the, in the fish tank.
There are a lot of guys and galsout there that wouldn't necessarily
(26:12):
train their people with all theirspecial skills because they think it.
Job security fear.
Yeah.
Which is a shame because I I've alwaysfelt that my job as the executive
chef was to train myself out of a job.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, it's not too much jobsecurity, but you know, how else, how
(26:32):
else are the people that I work withgonna be able to have the skills to go
on, to become chefs in their own rights.
Well, I mean, unless you'rehappy, just be in like having
to do everything all the time.
You know, there's, there's a part ofit where I think for most leaders,
there's a turning point in your careerwhere you realize that you can't
(26:53):
do it all, you can't do everythingand you're eventually gonna burn.
And you're also gonna get more outof the people that work with you
than, than you can undo yourself.
And I, you know, it.
It's just not an optionthey, that they wanna learn.
And, and I encourage everybody toask why, and you should be trying
(27:14):
to work yourself out of a job.
That's that's also the only way thatyou're gonna get yourself ahead.
You have an army of people, allstepping the same direction, as
you all believe in the same missionstatement, all fighting the same
battle for like, or you end with you.
That's that's gonna get you further aheadin your career than you'll be by doing it.
So, what I'm hearing you say is itdoesn't necessarily always have to back
or hip or knee surgery or the birthof a child for you to smarten up and
(27:38):
realize that there are better thingsto do with your time than being, you
know, tied to the tied to the stove.
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
Jonathan, we have just a secondleft and if you had just one little.
For our operators who are gonnago back, you know, into their
restaurants or their kitchens.
What's a little piece of wisdom thatyou can leave them with that maybe will
cause them to change their perspective.
(28:00):
I think, I think the biggest, oneof our biggest obstacles in this
business is we're afraid of whatour, our team members are gonna say.
I think what I, what I oftencoach operators is that just
ask them what they want.
It's simple.
Just go to them, ask themwhat they're looking.
Ask to look like about their, aboutwhere they work and what it is
that they wanted, where they were.
I think we're just, we're typicallyjust too afraid of what the answer's
(28:23):
gonna be and not knowing how to do that.
And I think it's, you know, the more wehave these conversations and the more
that we you know, spend our outreachand connect with more people, the better
we are in answering those questions.
And the less fearful we have tobe about asking though, I think
that's an excellent place to stop.
And if someone wants to learnmore about you and connect
with you, how do they do that?
(28:43):
Jonathan?
For sure.
Yeah.
So you can find me on LinkedIn.
I'm also part of the benchmark 60 group.
So you can reach me atjonathan@benchmarksixty.com or
Jonathan Ruby LinkedIn there loveto connect sounds perfect, man.
Jonathan, thanks so much for joining uson this episode of turning the table.
And for those of you who are stillwith us next week, we're gonna have
(29:05):
leadership development coach and mentor.
Alison Ann on as our guest.
And I think Jim Taylormay or may not be back.
I mean, he, if he's smart, you know, he'llstay home because we at benchmark 60.
Yes.
We also recognize that the newdads get to have parental leave.
we're on the cutting edge.
(29:25):
Thanks very much folks.
We really appreciate you joiningus, please like share and comment
and we'll answer every single one.
Thank you very much until next week.
Thanks for joining us on thisepisode of turning the table with
me, Adam Lamb and Jim Taylor.
This episode was sponsored by benchmark60 we're on a mission to change
(29:46):
the food and beverage industry byfocusing on staff, mental health and
wellbeing by forecasting and activelymanaging workload productivity.
Over 200 restaurants and food andbeverage operations have discovered
for themselves how to increased staffretention and become a preferred employer
in their market by using our proprietary.
If you'd like to have an operationalculture that everybody wants to work
(30:08):
for, then check out benchmark 60on the web@www.benchmarksixty.com.
Thanks for taking the time to bewith us and the courage to try
new things for the restaurant.
Profession's oldest problems.
Turning the table is aproduction of realignment media.
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