Salad, Pizza and Wine with Ryan Gray and Janice Tiefenbach

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Chris Spear (00:01):
This week I speak with Ryan and Janice of Nora
Gray, and Elena restaurants inMontreal. They have a new book
out called salad, pizza wine.
And I think you're gonna loveit. I'm Chris spear. And you're
listening to Chefs WithoutRestaurants, the show where I
usually speak with culinaryentrepreneurs and people working
in the food and beverageindustry outside of a
traditional restaurant setting.

(00:22):
But today, my guests actually dohave a couple of restaurants.
One of the fun benefits of thispodcast is that I get advanced
copies of a lot of cookbooks.
I'm sure you've noticed, I'vehad quite a few cookbook authors
on the show recently. So on theshow, we talked about how the
Montreal food scene hascontinued to evolve in recent
years. But we also spoke abouthow they've evolved, and how
they've wanted their restaurantsto evolve as well. We talked

(00:42):
about culture, and buildingrestaurants that were healthy
for both the employees and thecustomers. But that has to start
at the top. We talked about whatlocal means to them. What does
it look like to run a Montrealpizzeria? They decided that
importing all the ingredientsfrom Italy wasn't the right move
for them. So they started tolook locally. And of course, we
talked about their new cookbook.

(01:04):
One of the things I wanted totalk to them about was natural
wine. It's something I think alot of people are hearing more
about these days, butpersonally, I still didn't
really know much about it. So Iwanted to learn a little. If
you're interested in picking upa copy of the cookbook, click
the link in my bio. If you'dlike pizza, salad and or wine, I
think you're going to enjoy it.
And this week's episode has beenbrought to you by the United
States personal chef Associationand hire a chef. The show will

(01:27):
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email aprather@uspca.comHey, welcome to the show. Thanks

(02:33):
so much for coming on. I'mreally looking forward to
talking to you today. T

Janice & Ryan (02:38):
Thanks for having us.

you are in one of my favorite cities in the world.
And I think one of the coolestfood cities and it's probably
been about five or six yearssince I've been up there and I'm
overdue for another trip soon.

Unknown (02:50):
on trails the best.

I think it's been like 17 years ago. And I
remember you know, AnthonyBourdain did like no
reservations up there. And itwas, they call that the most
interesting or like, it was oneof the places he featured. And
then I think Bon AppetitMagazine, like that month also
called it like the most Europeancity in North America. And I was
like, Oh, I really think I needto take a trip up there and went
up there for my 30th birthdayand eat ate my way through. But

(03:14):
that was 17 years ago. And Iknow, it's changed significantly
since then.

Yes, I mean, in every way, Montreal is
different. You know, I mean, a,that it's the French speaking,
you know, like Bastion, and likea sea of, of English. And, you
know, like the here they dosuch, you know, I guess like
they do so much the governmentdoes so much to protect the
French language, to keep it theway it is to kind of keep it

(03:39):
like keep it weird anddifferent, I guess from
everywhere else, which it verymuch is, but it's really
interesting how the food scenealso has like kind of evolved in
a completely different way thaneverywhere else in North
America. I think that like, youknow, having had these roots in
like, having been colonized bythe French but also, you know,

(04:00):
having had the British here aswell, we have this incredibly
deep and rich and old foodculture, like Montreal is you
know, 400 years old, it's, it'sa it's significantly older than
than almost all you know,American cities. You know, it
has a completely differentbackground as far as like, you
know, where where the history offood comes from here. And thus

(04:21):
people eat and drink differentlyhere and always have

Can we start with a little bit of your food
backgrounds like where like didyou come up through the food
industry? Have you always lovedfood and cooking?

My grandfather on my father's side was a butcher.
And so he had like a butchershop and my father kind of grew
up like doing deliveries andstuff like that. And my both my
grandmother's on both sides werejust constantly churning out so
much food and having like bigfamily dinners and stuff like
that. So it's definitely like abig connection of like family,
comfort food, you know, allconnected there. I didn't pursue

(04:57):
a career in cooking initially. II studied fine arts. And I,
while I was in my undergrad,actually, I ended up getting
swept up in the kind ofpolitical student movement there
in Montreal here in Montreal,and we ended up starting with
some of my friends and call ita, you know, co students, we
started a kind of a soupkitchen, at the university, and

(05:21):
that kind of took over my life alittle bit for a few years. And
that was really my introductionto cooking kind of on a scale
where I got paid for it, and forother people, and it was really
like to provide and providesomething a service that wasn't
available to a lot of studentslike to give, give them
something like kind ofnutritious and, you know,
accessible and affordable, youknow, that just didn't really

(05:43):
exist at the time. So that I didthat for a few years. And then
from there, I kind ofSpringboard it into working in
restaurants, which was I sort ofI say that I kind of came in
through the backdoor a littlebit, but didn't really follow a
traditional path. I didn't go tocooking school. And I really
like, kind of immerse myselfcompletely in that I would just

(06:04):
sort of sponge off of everyperson around me, did a lot of
like, deep dives into readingand YouTube was big for me.
Yeah, so kind of when I jumpedinto the restaurant, rather than
working in restaurants, it waslike a whole different world for
me. And you know, it was soexciting. And I ended up
dropping out of school to kindof go deeper and deeper into

(06:26):
into cooking.

That's definitely not a traditional path,
especially starting with thesoup kitchens. I think that's
really neat. You know, like, youdon't hear many people who kind
of start their cooking careerthere. But, you know, it's
interesting, because it givesyou a different perspective, I
think, coming into the culinaryworld, as opposed to like
working through some high endrestaurants that are going to
culinary school at thebeginning.

Unknown (06:48):
Yeah, it definitely was, everyone around me was
really concerned with like foodpolitics at a time where nobody
was really talking about that inthe mainstream, you know,
talking about organic food,talking about sustainability,
all these kinds of things thatlike, now just seem ubiquitous
and normal that everyone shouldbe concerned about them. But at
the time, it was, you know, justsort of grassroots kind of
activist student kind ofculture, but it definitely, I

(07:10):
would say it formed where it wascoming from, and I definitely,
you know, would see things froma different perspective, I
think, than kids coming out ofculinary school, you know, like,
what kind of things were on themenu. Like, I remember the the
most common thing you'd see onthe menu was like Chile and sea
bass. And I was like, this isliterally an endangered species.
What is happening?

Yeah, I still don't surf it. It's been like, you
know, I think it disappeared.
Thank God for like, 20 years.
Yeah, it's coming back a little.
And I just, I'm not even in themindset of cooking it. I don't
know, the last time I need it orcooked it. Yeah.

Derrick Fox (07:40):
It's funny too.
Because, you know, that Chileansea bass thing. Like it wasn't
even in like good restaurants.
Like it might have been just sobut everywhere. It was
everywhere, you know, yeah.

Unknown (07:51):
They used to come in little, like individually
portioned soup in bags, too,which I? It blew my mind. Even
at the time.

Well, how about you, Ryan? What's your
background? How did you comeinto the food world?

I started working in restaurants when I was 18. As
a cook, actually, I like a chainrestaurant. And I mean, I
immediately loved it, like, youknow, the, the camaraderie and
how, like, you know, thatintensity, and, you know, I have
like, I constantly need to be inlike a state of, like, extreme
stress in my life. You know, andlike, my whole world is about,

(08:27):
like, balancing out this like,need to be, like, always
stressed and, like, have amillion things happening. So
like, working in a kitchenworking in a busy restaurant was
like, just incredible. And thenalso, you know, being with so
many awesome people and likegetting to have so much fun at
work. It was really a specialthing. And, you know, eventually
I thought that my people skillswould be put to better use in

(08:49):
the front of house. And so atsome point, I moved after an
incident where I spilled boilinghot soup all over myself in the
kitchen, like a whole stock potall over me off the stove. I
don't think I've heard thisstory. Yeah, it was pretty good.
I like I was like, took the hugedark pot off of the stove and in
the prep kitchen, and I waswalking around to fill the

(09:10):
chafing dish. So the serverswere like, you know, we'd like
serve the like, portion theirown soup with and as I turned
the corner, like it wasobviously like the floor was
full of soup that the waitershad spilled. And I made the turn
and then spilled the whole thingcame on me I'd second degree
burns all over my body. That wasmy last day in the kitchen
there. And, and so I Yeah,Vijay. I started working as a

(09:34):
waiter. And then, you know,again, I loved I loved the I
just loved the restaurants. Itwas just like something was so
special. And so my goal at firstwas to do restaurants, to work
in restaurants to be able tolike afford my education through
university and eventually, yeah,it just became like, well, you
know what, maybe if I just likedrop out of university and but

(09:55):
study wine. I could like be arestaurant professional, which
is what I did. I ended up goingto the Hotel Management school
and studying wine pier inMontreal. And eventually was
lucky enough to get a jobworking for some pretty amazing
people. And, you know, the restis kind of history, moved my way
up and then eventually opened myown restaurant.

When did you open your restaurant?

I opened Nora gray in 2011. I've been working
for like the five years beforethat with the job youth group. I
opened up their secondrestaurant with them called
Liverpool house. And then that'swhere I met Emma, quite early,
who's my partner, Nora Gray, mypartner Elena and my partner at
the new restaurant G as well,along with Janice, like she's
very Magennis to Janice, Janice.
Well, no, that's not true.

(10:39):
Janice came to work with us atNora gray. But yeah, we've all
we've all kind of workedtogether for a long time.

And you decided you wanted to go open another
restaurant together?

We decided yeah.
And then once you have to youkind of need three. So it was
like the not, I mean, notexactly. But like, you know, the
second restaurant was was reallya special thing. And we had this
incredible team that we puttogether, like insane ly stacked
leadership management team. Andtruthfully, like, the only way
that we could see us, you know,keeping that kind of thing

(11:10):
together was to like choice toexpand. We were talking you
touched on like this, like issueof culture and stuff a little
bit. I could like segue intothat right now. When we open
Elena in 2018. I think that themindset had had already, you
know, our mindset already beganto change. You know, we're
talking about, you know, me too.

(11:31):
moment, I think that like, youknow, there was when I my first
restaurant or gray, like, weopened it, you know, in that
like, okay, great, like, we'vebeen running these restaurants
for four years, we know that allyou really need to do is serve
great food and like, justdestroy people with booze. And
you can be successful, you know,and like, not to mention, like,

(11:53):
consume as much as humanlypossible yourself, or even like,
as far in my case, like, inhumanly possible amounts. And,
and then like, you know, we kindof took that culture that we
grown up in with us, Nora gray.
And you know, the first coupleyears in Norway were pretty
rough. Like, we were rough, Iwas a bad boss.

Unknown (12:13):
So yeah, Nora Gray was, at the time, when I joined them,
it was like, I think they werein their second year, and they
just celebrated their secondanniversary. And it was, you
know, we were still, I think wewere just sort of at the tail
end of, you know, restaurantsbeing a wild, wild west kind of
place, we're just kind of comingout of that. So it was still
super fun and crazy. And we justhad the best time all the time.

(12:35):
You know, and but you know,like, there's a, there's another
side to that, obviously, andthere's a consequence of that
kind of behavior and lifestyle.
And, you know, and I think we,you know, at this at this point,
now, it's like, easy to, like,reflect on like, how that was,
like, horrible and terrible. Butat the time, you know, that was
just the culture everywhere. So,yeah, I mean, we all kind of I

(12:57):
mean, personally, I stuffed Iworked there, I worked at Nora
for a year and then steppedaway. And, you know, worked a
couple other places. And thenbut we, before I left, Ryan was
like, you know, we have plans,or we want to open another
place. We want to open apizzeria, we really want you to
be there. And I was alwaysmaking pizza for Starfield, just
you know, because it was fun.

(13:20):
And I liked it. We all enjoyedit. And it was just sort of an
experiment every time. But yeah,it was sort of like, in the back
of it, it was on the back ofRyan's mind. But it was kind of
in the back of my mind as wellthat I would eventually, you
know, kind of meet again andwork on some other project
together. And a couple of yearslater, we did. And that opening
opening Elena, like Ryan wasstarting to say it was really,

(13:43):
you know, we had an incredibleteam of people, like so much
experience and a lot of peoplewho were kind of like, at the
point where they were, like, youknow, we're done with the
industry. This is this not forme anymore. I can't live like
this anymore. And, you know, wekind of convinced them that it
would be different and, youknow, just one word, one word,
or Jive one we're restaurant.
And so we had a lot of peoplethat were kind of, you know, on

(14:05):
the on the edge of leaving, joinus and bring they brought with
them, you know, years thereyears and years of experience.

It was in that moment, we were like, you know,
there's a better way to do this.
Like, luckily, we were kind ofyoung enough that we could see
this happening. I had gottensober a couple years earlier.
And, you know, I was I wasreally ready to do something
different, you know, like, thesame, that same thing started to
feel really tired, reallyboring. And like it was just so
unhealthy. And watching peoplearound us, you know, just like

(14:37):
become destroyed, either, youknow, like through like
substance abuse, but alsothrough like the culture, this
insanely toxic culture. And, youknow, we could also see that
there was like a changehappening with you know, the the
kids that were working for ustoo. They didn't want the same
thing that we wanted, you know,or that we grew up with, like
they wanted something different.
They wanted they had healthierboundaries. They had more clear

(15:00):
ideas of like what was andwasn't acceptable? You know, I
think that they wanted a morebalanced lifestyle. And I think
that like, you know, to anextent, I think diners wanted it
to, you know, like, there's onlyso much of that, like, excess,
like, more is more until youknow, it's really not. And the
truth is, like, when you're inthat you kind of think it's the

(15:20):
only way you know, but like,when you when you when you
remove yourself from a littlebit, and you look at it with a
little bit of perspective,you're like, you know, it's
really nice going for dinner andnot having someone give you
shots. You know, I mean, youknow, it's really nice, like,
like, sometimes, like notgetting served an extra main
course, like when you're alreadyfull, you know, I mean, like,
and I'm not saying like, youknow, we didn't want to be

(15:41):
generous, I'm just saying, like,we just like wanted to like,
like, be able to haverestaurants that were fun and
healthy, you know, and healthy.
And like, every every waypossible. I mean, like healthy
in terms of like, theingredients that we were using,
you know, really like, likeleaning into doing pizza in a
different way which we can getinto, but like healthy in terms
of like a work environment, wewanted long term sustainability
for our employees, you know,like, which we felt was like

(16:04):
going to make a healthierbusiness, which is absolutely
true. And we wanted, you know,and we wanted, like a healthier
lifestyle, ie like, you know,not the staff not, you know,
getting, like blackout drunkevery night. And so like, what
we realized was like, it was itwas an easy thing, if you start
from the top, and you know,like, at the top, you know, like

(16:25):
the owners aren't the onesproviding or instigating the
party all the time, and themanagement follows suit. And
then the staff just kind offollows suit. I'm not saying
they don't go out and havedrinks. Like, they're, you know,
of course, and they should, andthey're encouraged to but like,
you know, the culture isn'tlike, we're a family, like,
let's get fucked up all the timetogether. You know, I mean,

(16:46):
like, and then, you know, youcreate this, this really
horrible environment wherepeople feel that they can't
leave, they don't grow, theydon't learn, they're always hung
over, you know, it's like, it'sand then and then all kinds of
bad things stem from that.

So have you seen like a better retention of
employees, since kind of makingthat switch?

It's insane.
Like, it's crazy. A, you know,the staff is, they're better
equipped, you know, to do thejob on a daily basis, as a
result. They're not then again,like, I'm not saying the kids
don't come in hungover. Like,like, they do. It's fine. Like,
but it's interesting, because,like, you know, their kids, and
they can handle it like ahangover. You know, I mean, but

(17:25):
like, it's not like, it's notlike an everyday like a daily
thing, where it's like, everyday is like that, you know, and
that's when it starts to becomereally tricky.

But yeah, and it's not like drinking on the job.
Because I remember my very firstline cooking job, like my sous
chef would sit in the officeduring service with a cocktail.
And like, if the cooks wanted togo to the bar and grab, like a
pitcher of beer, you could andlike, literally drink beer on
the line. And that was my firstexperience working in a kitchen.

For sure, for sure. I mean, that was every
kitchen I ever worked in, youknow, like, how is every Oh,
sorry, every restaurant I'veever worked in, like, was like
that, you know, usually I wasthe one, you know, supplying the
booze. And like, and even, like,even supplying, like, I was the
one like insisting, you know, soit's like, it is a totally
different thing. And yes, thestaff retention is is is nuts. I

(18:12):
mean, it's part of the reasonthat we wanted to open up a
third restaurant, again, like wehad, like, this is pre pandemic.
So like, we had this team thathad been together for almost two
years from the opening, youknow, so the busboys needed to
become waiters, and the waitersneeded to become managers, or
Maitre D's or whatever. And itwas like, no one was moving
anywhere. You know, like, oncewe'd like kind of cycled
through, you know, the first cuplike that first, you know, I

(18:35):
don't know, when you open a newrestaurant, there's always like,
a, a team that, like, is likeyour opening team, and then that
kind of, you know, they go offand, and like, you build like,
you know, a more solidfoundation, maybe after that,
but, you know, we had, yeah,like, incredible retention, the,
it's really truly been, like, anamazing thing. And it's still
today is like that, because,like, you know, I believe the

(18:56):
restaurants have like a DNA,right? Like, when they're
created, they have their ownDNA. And it's, it's interesting,
you can try as hard as you canto, to change culture. But if
you, when you when you startwith, like a certain DNA, it's
very difficult to completelychanged that. And, and I'm not
saying that you can't make itbetter. And there are
adjustments there. You canabsolutely always make it

(19:18):
better. But like, when you startwith an idea of like, you know,
what, like, this is going to bea different kind of place with
like a different kind ofmindset, a different kind of
environment that's in the DNA,it kind of permeates everything
else.

And you kind of touched on a little bit and
looking at DNA, how do you thinkabout sourcing sustainability
responsibility? You know, withother vendors and so forth. I
know you like to use localseasonal, which a lot of people
say they do, but what does thatreally mean for you?

Unknown (19:47):
Yeah, that's I'll jump on that a little bit. I mean,
I'm sure Ryan has things hecould say too, but that was also
you know, same thing from thejump was like informing how we
built the menu how we And, youknow, how we decide what goes on
the menu, you know, for me, asmuch as possible, obviously, we

(20:07):
live in Canada, so it's not, youknow, I don't have a greenhouse
attached to the restaurant oranything like that where I can
grow my own vegetables all yearround. But as much as possible,
like in during definitely duringthe summer season, the spring
season and fall, we are workingvery closely with a handful of
farmers and suppliers that areworking with the same kind of
ethos that we are. And a lot ofthose farmers are ex chefs, you

(20:32):
know, who've decided to open didthey, you know, they, they kind
of understand the same kind ofmentality that we have, where
were they want to be servingvegetables that didn't come from
California or from you know,overseas, I think a lot of
Italian restaurants, at least,like up until the last 10 years
or so. And even probably stillnow, you know, in order for it

(20:55):
to be kind of worth its salt. Asan Italian restaurant, you need
to be using products from Italy.
And I think, you know, we try tolike kind of question that a
little bit. You know, we live inQuebec. So what do we have
around us? We have likeincredible cheese, you know, the
some of the best dairy andcheese in the country. And it's
a huge, huge industry here. Likeit's just like, there's such an

(21:17):
amazing culture of likeincredible cheeses. So why would
we, you know, import cheese fromItaly, you know, for everything
like so there's there's a coupleof products that we do use that
our Italian, you know, that arethat Ryan can talk about a
little bit, but uh,

Ryan Gray (21:29):
yeah, can I jump in?
Because there's something like,I think to tie this all
together. The idea of Elena atthe beginning, was we're going
to do natural ebb and pizza. Wewere really interested in this
idea of like, like sourdoughpizza. But if we wanted to make
it like Neapolitan, like we wantto make it like the pizza, like
based on kind of the pizzas inNaples and like the Roman style
Trattoria, where you have like arestaurant that has like

(21:52):
antipasti, pizza pasta, as ourlike, as our as our base, but
like with like an importantstyle pizza, we thought like
what makes an important pizzaGreat. In Naples? Well, the
flowers from there, the tomatoesare from there, the cheeses from
there, you know, I mean, and theovens are built there. And so
what people did for like 20years or 30 years, I guess, is

(22:12):
like important oven from Naplesor from Italy, you know, import
flour, double zero, which,ironically, is wheat that's
grown in Canada, shipped,they're milled and then shipped
back. So like your image, likeit's like a crazy thing. So like
you're importing and of animporting flour, importing
tomatoes, and importing buffalomozzarella. Okay, and olive oil.
So we can't do all of those. Sowe import our own olive oil from

(22:35):
our friends that make incredibleorganic olive oil from two
different wineries that we'revery closely associated with in
Italy. But otherwise, oh, andtomatoes, we don't do tomatoes
that or we don't do enoughtomatoes, our growing season not
long enough to like the righttime tomato. So tomatoes come
from California from Bianco. Butlike the flower comes from 45
minutes outside of away from therestaurant. You know, it's

(22:56):
organic, local flower that'sfreshly milled for us. That's
amazing. And that was like fromday one, you know, and it was
like let's develop a sourdoughstarter. That's ours. With like
this with this base. Let's usethis local flour. Let's have a
local artisan biller oven in thestyle of like a, you know, a
traditional Napoletana oven. Butwith like local materials, and

(23:17):
because like if you think aboutNaples and pizza, it's it's
really a product of the terroir,right? It is that way because
all the things are from there.
And it's always been done thatway. Well, if you want to create
great pizza, instead ofimporting and trying to recreate
it, the idea was let's just makeit a product of our terroir. And
so Janice touched on themozzarella, like the cheese. So

(23:39):
like there's this incrediblebuffalo mozzarella producer here
in Quebec. And so we use localBuffalo mozzarella, and we use
you know, the tomatoes that wecan that are as close as
possible, and local flour. Andwe try and create something
that's, you know, I mean, ittastes very nimble with time but
it's all with local ingredients.
And when you use that as likeyour kind of like Cornerstone or
like the base idea or foundationof like, everything, everything

(23:59):
else, every other decision goesthat way to, you're like, Okay,
what's the best thing that wecan do without compromising?
That's from here? Great. Let'sdo it. You know? Is there
something local that we can getinstead of this? Great, let's do
it, you know, is there no way toget around Parmesan cheese? No
problem. Well buy Parmesancheese, you know, I mean, like,
not to be like, we try and dothings like the right way for,

(24:20):
you know, our community and theenvironment. So it means working
with like as many local chefs aspossible. Janice does something
amazing. Elena is a very busyrestaurant, and especially in
the summer season, like it'snuts. And so we can buy a lot, a
lot of produce. And so whathappened was, you know, we
couldn't keep up like the smallfarmers we were working with,
couldn't keep up with ourdemand. And so Janice started

(24:41):
meeting with them in March, toplan full growing seasons for us
for the following year. So thatthey would choose seed together.
They would plan they would havea plan for like when like when
things would grow and then whatwe could be allocated. Be like
in the springtime like longbefore the ground even thought,
so that we could start to like,really figure out from all these

(25:03):
different farms, like kind of away to get as much amazing local
organic produce as we could getfor the for like, the really
busy season. And then in thewinter, you know, yes, we have
to import certain things fromCalifornia, there's no question.
But at the same time, like, youknow, we do a ton of work
preserving. So like, when wehave an abundance of things, you

(25:24):
know, like, we we have theseamazing artichokes here that are
great. And the growing season ispretty short. But like, we work
super hard all the time to belike, you know, preserving like
pickling, like things likeartichokes, jardiniere, like all
that kind of stuff. And all thatstuff is like, nothing is
groundbreaking. And but what I'msaying like, it's, it's not that
original, but it's like, whenyou do when, like, the

(25:45):
foundation is like, on likesomething that's like really
good. And like holistic in termsof like, good for the community,
good for the environment, goodfor then good for people when
they eat it, actually, you know,because it's not processed. It's
not like, you know, bleached,it's not hasn't gone back and
forth across the ocean 123times, it becomes like,
something that you can, like, beproud to serve to your children

(26:08):
to you know, and then you'reyes, you're operating a
restaurant, but like, you're atleast doing it in a way where
like, you know, it's helpful forlike, or good for everybody.

Yeah, and it sounds like, you know, you do a lot of
seasonal stuff there. I don'tfeel like a lot of restaurants
of this style, do seasonal likemost of the pizzerias I go to,
it's the same toppings andeverything year round. And if
they have salads, it's like thesame year round, and you don't
see that as much in this type ofrestaurant, at least not where I
am.

Ryan Gray (26:36):
No, you're totally right. And I mean, like that
was, that was something that,you know, was always part of
our, our, like, plan, you know,we had this like idea that like,
and this is this goes back tobefore Elena, that, you know,
like with Noah Gray, where wewere like, we want to kind of
try and make food that like, islike the food that you serve
that you get in Italy. So it'slike, if you happen to be
around, during, you know, like,winter season, like, put trails

(26:59):
everywhere, you know, but thenlike, it's not around if you're
not there in the right season,you know, I mean, like, people
tend to use these like theseproducts in like, like
regionally specific productsthat are available in that
moment. Like they'll, it's justlike, it's everywhere, in that
moment. And then it's gone. Andit's gone. It's a little bit
different now, I mean, peoplein, like in Italy, like they
import a lot of stuff, too. Butthat's that was kind of like

(27:21):
what the idea was. And so yes,we have certain things that are
staples that don't change. Butfor example, like we do a
mushroom pizza, it's always beenon the menu since we opened, but
the mushrooms change. Literallyevery season, every every like,
even like a couple of weeks.
There's different mushroomscoming on because we're using
cultivated from here, we'reusing wild forage from there,
we're using us in depending onwhat's around, and what's

(27:42):
available. The toppings like themushrooms completely changed,
you know, we're not getting likethe same button mushrooms from
like Cisco. You know, like, wedon't order like that, you know,
like, it's just not how we dothings. And what it creates is
it creates a more excitingproduct for for the guests,
right? Because like, if you loveour mushroom pizza, when Sean
Chelsea's in there, Shawn trailson it. Like that's pretty
awesome. You know, it doesn'tcost more, it's the same thing.

(28:04):
And then it's also more excitingfor the cooks too, because like
they're always getting to workwith different products. You I
mean, like yes, it's it's thesame thing. But like, it changes
they get to handle differentdifferent things all the time,
you know?

Yeah, I think I need to come up there and try
some of your pizza. See, I'vegot a new cookbook out salad,
pizza wine, I'm sure you'd loveto talk about your cookbook. One
of the things I like to ask whenI have cookbook authors on is
why write a book, it seems likea lot of work. There's obviously
tons of good books out thereabout salad and pizza and not

(28:37):
that yours doesn't bringanything new to the table. But I
kinda like to put that out therejust can't say why even go to
what I would assume as a hassleto put a book out there.

Let's get existential really fast.

Ryan Gray (28:48):
Yeah, I mean, the, the, the reason that we did a
book was because of thepandemic. So during like the
first kind of wave of you willhave the pandemic post, severe
original lockdown, like whenthings kind of start to get back
to normal. We were like one ofthe first restaurants I guess,
like Quebec had very, very, veryrestrictive mandates and rules

(29:11):
about like being open. There wasno dine in for almost a year in
our restaurants, you know,everything was takeout. Not even
outdoor, I don't think for thefirst year. And so we were like,
you know, once we figured outhow to do that, it worked out
great for us. We were very busy,to be honest, you know, like we
had a really, we were able topivot really fast and we were

(29:33):
able to like maintain and hireas many staff as we could. And
but at a certain point like welooked around like the there was
a friend of ours that hadstarted up like a charity
nonprofit. That was forrestaurant workers that were out
of work because of the pandemicbecause most restaurants weren't
nimble enough or or had, youknow, didn't have enough staff

(29:56):
or whatever, to be able to liketo open and to do takeout right
away and So we decided torelease a like a, an ebook, like
a small digital cookbook toraise money for this charity,
that would go to restaurantworkers that were out of work.
So they could get like, youknow, 500 bucks, like a check or
whatever, to like, tide themover between, like, you know,

(30:19):
when they're like ei kicked inkind of thing. And so we put
together this book, we had allthese amazing high def photos
from a photographer that we'vebeen working with for like, you
know, the Instagram account, andlike the visual identity of the
restaurant. And we kind of likeraced through and Janice and
staff who wrote the book, andMarley, who designed it was our
partner, like, kind of puttogether this amazing 15 page

(30:42):
like digital cookbook. And wesold like, you know, several
1000 copies for, you know, 10 or15 bucks online.

Unknown (30:51):
With the first one, I think we raised $50,000. The
first

Yeah. Wow. That's amazing. Yeah,

Unknown (30:56):
it was great restaurant orders.

Ryan Gray (30:58):
So that was great. So once we had that, we were like,
well, I mean, this is basically,you know, like a book pitch. You
know, we had, like, we had proofof concept. We had like,
actually, like a layout, andsome recipes already done. And
so we decided to shop it. And,you know, we were lucky and
someone wanted to, you know,appetite for it's a division of

(31:22):
Random House here in Canada,it's a cookbook publisher based
in Vancouver, they wanted it. Sothat's how it happened. And to
be fair, like, by the time welike, kind of sign that book
deal. We had time, like we wereour dining room was close, you
know, it was like, it wasbasically like a pizza box
storage, like a giant pizza boxstorage room. You know, I mean,

(31:43):
it was like, there was like,nothing happening there. And we
were doing like tons of takeout.
But like, you know, just reallypizzas and salad and wine. And
we were like, we had we hadlike, the time we had the
energy, we had the motivation toreally sink into this, you know,
that all evaporated when likedining rooms reopened and, like
things got crazy again. But bythen we were well into the
process. So you know, it waskind of like, a perfect

(32:05):
opportunity for us to like to dosomething. And like I said
before, like, we love stress,and like we'd love to be like,
like busy and doing projects.
And so this was just like, theperfect kind of thing at that
moment. You know, and also, youknow, if you remember back to,
like, you know, whatever, whatis it like two and a half years

(32:26):
ago, or three years ago, youknow, there was like, feeling
like, part of something or doingsomething and having like, you
know, working on a project, likebeing able to like really, like
dive into things like that. Itwas like Kai was very helpful
mentally, you know, to it waslike, it helped keep us all sane
and Well, I think,

Unknown (32:46):
oh, yeah, I was gonna say that, I think that is the
major silver lining of thepandemic was that so many
creative projects came out ofit. And even like the impact
that it I would say that it hadon on Elena is humongous. You
know, like, we, it's a littlebit shifted the DNA, I would say
of, of how we operate even, likewe've gotten even deeper, I

(33:06):
would say on like, making surethat everybody's safe all the
time. And you know, everything'sall the decisions are made with
everyone's best interest inmind. So yeah, it's, it's kind
of awesome. It was an awesomeproduct of that.

I found that you learn to cut some of the
bullshit out, right? Like youhave your business model. And
it's like, this thing kind ofwasn't working before. And then
it really wasn't gonna workduring COVID. And then you just
like cut it loose, and then itnever comes back. You know?

Ryan Gray (33:32):
Elena certainly was like streamlined to like really
like a bare bones, you know,kind of pizzeria at the
beginning because we didn't haveany staff. And the only thing
people really wanted was pizza.
And so we were lucky in that waythat we had a product that
people wanted that was like, youknow, easily transportable.
There was some precedent alreadyabout people doing takeout
pizza. So it wasn't like, youknow, reinventing, reinventing

(33:54):
anything. Then there was amoment where I was like, Okay,
now we have to actually like,do, we need to, like expand. And
so Chris Cameron, who's ourchef, and who's our pizzaiolo.
At Elena, he developed a hoagierecipe. And we started doing
hoagies as well during duringthat time, which, which stuck
around we still do them at lunchnow. Yeah, I

want to talk about hoagies I used to live in the
Philly area. And I definitelyreally like hoagies as you know,
not a Montreal thing. And I knowin your book did did he go down
to Vidya? Is that what it was?
And yeah, and it brought thatidea back.

Unknown (34:29):
He's obsessed with hoagies like that, they really
remember that, like he was doinghoagies just because he was
obsessed with hoagies he wouldmake them for staff meal and he
was just like, howling at it andit just like obsessed. And it
just kind of like grew out ofthat I would say

Ryan Gray (34:43):
totally and like Joe Joe is doing these, like the
hoagies are so good. Joe is abuddy of ours and we went down
to see him and we were like,that was right before the
pandemic also and we were likeoh man, like we got to like we
should do this we should do thisand it wasn't really like a
thing that we were I thinkactually going to do but then
you know again, like opportuneUnity was there, we had the time
we had the energy, we had theresources. It was like we had

(35:04):
the space, we had all thesethings. And so that became part
of it. And why we called it ahoagie. Well, because it's
modeled after obviously, like aPhiladelphia style hoagie. And
no one here calls them hoagies.
Here we do, we do some, I thinkwe do sub submarine submarine
sandwiches. So like, everythinghere is like a sub. And I know
that sometimes we make Ogee wecall things hoagies that are

(35:27):
definitely subs. And we callthings hoagies that are, are
really just like, oursandwiches. But like, you know,
we just decided it would be theumbrella term. And, you know, it
did start out with like, likekind of a traditional, very
traditional looking hoagie. Andnow it's morphed into something
where we do you know, like,like, fried chicken ones and
like, you know, kind of a littlebit more like of a creative kind

(35:49):
of take on a hoagie for sure.
Like the

reception been with customers or people digging
them. Yeah,

Ryan Gray (35:57):
it's great. It's great. People love it. We do
like a special we do, like we dolike a traditional like, usually
it's like mortadella or, like,you know, more or like appical
like something like that hoagie.
Like every every day. And thenon the on the weekends on
Fridays and Saturdays we do likea special one. And usually for
the special one, there's like alineup for it. You know, we'll
announce it that morning. Whatit is, might be a meatball might

(36:17):
be like a fried chicken withspicy honey, it might be you
know, I don't know, they've doneso many.

That sounds amazing. I'm a big dog, you got
like, I could eat a hoagie everyday. I mean, it's not really
good for your waistline. Samewith eating pizza. Looking at
your cookbook, I know you lovedoing, you know, all naturally
loving pizzas for people who getthe book. If they don't want to
get into making a starter? Canthey still make pizzas using
your recipes?

Unknown (36:45):
Yeah, there's definitely we we kind of
acknowledged that that's, youknow, that's a big endeavor,
it's a big commitment. You know,it's kind of like getting a pet,
a family pet, you know, youreally have to commit yourself
to it. So we did include a sortof non Lebbon version, like a
yeasted version for both theItalian pizza dough and the
Neapolitan. So it's totallypossible to, you know, have a

(37:08):
lower lower commitment level andstill have a nice product.

It's never gonna hurt you to have that on hand
and just make a ton of bread.
But like, every time I've triedto do it, I just cannot keep it
maintained. I should be makingpizza or bread every day, but
it's just like, I don't get thewhole feeding thing done. And
then it's not right. And I'vegotten two more just like using
yeast to get my dose going.

Unknown (37:31):
Yeah, I would say it might not be for the beginner,
you know, like, why don't youtry the try the Eastern version
have a little success. And thenyou know, and then see the
virtues of, of naturally lovingand work your way up to it, I
would say,

Ryan Gray (37:44):
you're not going to make a natural oven pizza on a
whim, you know, so it has to besomething you plan. So you know,
it's like, yes, you can make ayeasted you could do a use of
one no problem. Like kind of,you know, with a little bit of,
of of foresight, but then youknow, for if you're gonna do
natural love, and it's like youplan you plan to do it for an
event or for like a thing orsomething, you know, because it

(38:06):
takes a couple days. So it's itis it is definitely like more of
a commitment. It is definitelytakes more planning. But once
it's done that, like that part,I mean, it's it's pretty much
just as easy. Just you have tobe a little bit more proactive.

Unknown (38:20):
Yeah, I mean, there's definitely a lot of pitfalls,
there's a lot of things that cankind of go wrong when you're
making pizza. So I think evenlike as as a kind of like a
gateway thing to, for people tostart with yeasted one, it's,
you know, like get all your getall the kinks out, like get get
to know how the dough feels, howto stretch it out, like, you
know, you make your mistakes onsomething that's a little bit
less time investment, then, youknow, you build a little

(38:43):
confidence. And then once youget to the, you get kind of a
little more comfortable going.
Because if you if he just wentfor the naturally loving one and
had a failure, you would justkind of likelihood of us trying
again would be a lot lower, Ithink you know, I have

a friend who has a natural love and pizza business
here. And then another friendwho does naturally leavened
breads, and they said, You knowwhat they see when they talk to
people, as someone makessomething, it doesn't come out
really well. And then theyswitch recipes. And that's not
the recipe that was the problem.
It's just like you did therepetition, right? It's you. But
you know, like you do and takegood notes, you make your pizza
dough, this time and it's toowet will add less liquid next

(39:17):
time or it's too whatever, likemaybe it needs more time, but
like find a really good recipe,and maybe stick with that and
just like take notes of what youneed to do next time instead of
like, oh, this recipe didn'twork. Let's find a new one. It
is probably you right? It's justthe practice.

Unknown (39:33):
Yeah, there's there's it's just a tremendous amount of
trial and error, I think. Andthere's a big learning curve, I
would say and it's one of the itwas one of the biggest
challenges of writing the bookwas trying to kind of distill
that for people in in sort ofmanageable chunks where people
don't really understand and kindof get some insight on how that
works. I have some sites that

I still don't stretch really well like I've
been practicing for years and mydough just like my stretching
game isn't down but I also liveHave a good pan pizza. So I'm
probably more likely to justthrow a little oil in a pan and
stretch my toe in there.

Ryan Gray (40:06):
You know, that's why we have the Italian recipe in
there, it's, I think it'sactually something that's much
better suited to make it home.
Yeah, I'm also, like, prettyhopeless when it comes to
stretching. But you know, like,at the end of the day, like,
pizza should be fun. And like,the whole thing should be fun.
And like, I have a hard timewhen I'm like cooking for the
family if like, it doesn't turnout perfectly, so I get it, like
I get really frustrated. Youknow, it's not like perfect, but

(40:28):
at the same time, like pizza youknow, like if you can include
the family if you can includeyour friends and like doing it
and like you make it like anevent that's fun. Like it really
should be, you know, like, pizzais fun, like are the pizzerias
are fun, because it's a fun foodto eat. You know.

I will say, though, that like I do cooking classes,
and I got hired to teach. It waslike a 10 year olds birthday.
And I'd like 1010 year old girlsand they wanted to make pizza
from scratch. And that was likea nightmare. And all the parents
showed up and we're juststanding there watching it was
in their home kitchen too. Solike I brought my 40 pound
baking steel. chuck that in theoven. Like you know, as soon as
I got there, and they're justlike, you know their sauce and

(41:07):
I'm like, that's a lot of sauce.
That's okay, I love sauce. Andit's like hovered and just like
overflowing as like I want I'mnever going to do kids cooking
classes. Again. I'm definitelynot doing pizza off site in
someone else's house. Like withmy kids at home. Yeah, maybe not
going to continue that as partof my business model, though.

Unknown (41:25):
Why we don't employ little kids.

We also have really cool recipes in there too, that
are not salads or pizzas. I wasdrawn to the carrot recipe with
like the carrot marmalade likeThat sounds delicious. And
something that I'm going totackle and I always love a good
mostarda. So like a porchettawith like a mostarda That sounds
great. So not just pizza andsalad and wine.

Unknown (41:46):
Yeah, definitely.
There's more, there's more toit.

Ryan Gray (41:49):
Yeah, well, also, you know, when we open when we open
the restaurant, the menu is alittle bit broader, you know, so
there was always like a, therewas always like a protein,
whether it was like chicken orsteak or out of the like, out of
the wood oven. We were doingthings like that. And, you know,
again, like the pandemic kindof, like, streamline the menu

(42:09):
and that stuff fell off. Butlike, you know, when you're
thinking about a cookbook, it'slike, you want to be able to be
the book that people can go tofor like, multiple different
occasions, you know, I thinkabout the cookbooks that I love
that I reach for all the time.
And it's like, you know, a greatexample is like, like the six
seasons cookbook or something,which is a great book and like,
you know, it's like, I'll make asalad. From there. I'll make a
pasta from there, I'll make likea chicken dish from there, you

(42:31):
know? Because, like, once, onceyou start to, like, get into it,
if you like the way that thelike one recipe tastes, you
know, it's like, it's easy to godown down the road. And I think
that, you know, like, we knowthat like, it's like, this is
not we didn't want to just do anexclusive pizza cookbook, you
know, like Joe Vidya Dan, DanRichter, like, richer, they did
like really good pizza books.

(42:54):
Like, we don't need to do apizza book again. You know, it's
like, part of what we do.
Obviously, it's a big part ofwhat we do. But you know, like,
the restaurant is also more thanpizza. So the book is a lot more
than pizza.

I don't think I've ever seen a cookbook that has a
Fuck, Marry kill section andeither get like, points for
being bold. I don't know that Ialways agree with your rankings,
maybe killed the pine nuts, but

Unknown (43:15):
it's tough on now I'd kill the plants are too
expensive.

And I want to talk a little bit about natural wine,
like, I don't really know a lotabout it. I know. It's something
that's kind of popped the pastcouple of years and a lot of
people talk about natural wine.
So how did you decide to focuson natural wines?

Ryan Gray (43:36):
It was something that, you know, when I started
out, we didn't talk aboutnatural wine, it wasn't like a
term that even existed. And, youknow, I was always really into
like, very well, I mean, like,like a lot of people I came in
through like the New World, youknow, kind of like bold, easy
things to understand. But veryquickly, I became really, really
interested in these like OldWorld wines. You know, I was

(43:59):
drank a lot of Burgundy's andonce from laoire, and there's
Euro, and, and, as my tasteskind of evolved into like,
seeking out these like, more andmore kind of pure, more like
traditional expressions of like,of terroir and of like sense of
place in wines. You know, it waskind of at the same time that
this like, this kind of thisthis movement was was sort of

(44:22):
taking shape in France andelsewhere. And luckily, like
luckily for me, I kind of, youknow, was there at the beginning
and became like a, like an earlyadopter. And then like, you
know, a disabled who spread theword of natural wine. And for
many years, it was like, youwant to go uphill battles,
trying to convince someone in2010 to drink an orange wine, or

(44:43):
trying to convince someone in2010 You know, to like, have
these like No, no sulfur winesthat were super all over the
place with like tons of volatileacidity, you know, and explained
to them that they were betterthan they're like California
Cabernet Sauvignon. I mean, it'slike literally like apples and
oranges but It was somethingthere that I loved. I mean, I
love the story I love the as Imet the winemakers that were

(45:05):
behind these wines, they reallyspoke to me, I love how
passionate they were and how,like not not like self
righteous, but like, they hadthis like almost like dogmatic
approach like no like this isthe way and then the only way.
And really what they weretalking about was like, you
know, this thing that wasn'tnew, this is just a way to go
back. Free industrialization ofwine, pre industrialization of

(45:28):
agriculture. So you know, likeworking without chemicals in the
vineyard, first of all, so doinglike organic, biodynamic, or
more kind of farming, which islike, obviously better for the
environment, obviously, likebetter for human consumption.
And then in the cellar alsodoing the same thing. Because
like, what people don't talkabout a lot of the time is that
with natural wine, or with orindustrial, why I should say,

(45:51):
even like a wine that's likecertified organic, like there
are like, hundreds of differentthings you can put in to your
wine after you've harvested yourorganic grapes that are
literally all chemical related,you know, and so you can have an
organic wine that really hastons of shit put into that after
the fact and there's noregulation on that. And so, you

(46:12):
know, like the natural winemovement is to say, like, we
just grew the best grapes, wecould there represent the
vintage and the place thatthey're from. And then we did as
little as possible in thecellar, put it in a bottle, and
we hope you enjoy it. And peoplethat are really good at that
those wines have like, I thinklike much more energy and much
more depth than like a winethat's made conventionally.

(46:35):
Because like a conventional winethat uses lots of yeast and lots
of like, like uses like nonIndigenous yeast. And that uses
like sulfur dioxide, in largeamounts, like it kind of new,
like really actually justneuters the line. And it's no
longer like, it's no longeralive, it's no longer really
like evolving shape, likechanging. It just kind of is

(46:57):
like a beverage. And so I lovethis idea of like, you know,
something that's like, likeexciting and alive and like
changes in that and that movesand like, it might not taste
different, like it'll tastedifferent from one day to the
next. It's not always the samething. That's very exciting.

Did they go off easily? Like, can you have
problems with them,

Ryan Gray (47:15):
just like with anyone you have the same, you have the
same amount of risk for like,like, you know, certain certain
problems. And then the onlything is, because they don't
have any preservatives, theytend to not hold as long once
they're open, you know. So itmeans that like though, they
won't taste as good afteropening, like the next day,
often, you know, so it meansthat if you're working wines by

(47:36):
the glass, things like that, youhave to be a little bit more
like on the ball with that kindof stuff. You can't just like,
assume that it'll taste okay,you have to you have to kind of
track the evolution, they evolvedifferently. And part of that is
like amazing, because, you know,it's so fun to taste a wine like
a day after opening to see whereit's gone and what it is and
where it's at. It might nottaste the same, but it might

(47:57):
taste a lot better. Whereas likewe'd like conventional wine, it
pretty much tastes the same orlike bad. Like a day after, you
know?

Where do you guys find inspiration and I'm not
necessarily talking just in thefood world, it could be anywhere
what inspires you

Unknown (48:17):
I look at a lot of I studied fine arts and I take a
lot of inspiration from likeevery creative outlet there is I
would say I'm super into likefiber arts right now. And like
music, you know, I played musicalso, with some with friends. I
played in a few bands. So I feellike I draw inspiration from
like, everyone around me who'sdoing something creative. I get

(48:40):
so excited when somebody's like,into some kind of creative
project. I just I find it justlights me right up. I think it's
incredible. And dirt like in thein the all the seasons. Like as
they change I get inspirationfrom like things that are
becoming available. You know,when the first asparagus come
when the first you know, SnowCrab come it's just like it's

(49:02):
exciting, you know, and I findoften trying to trace back like
the inspiration for a dishsometimes is a little bit of a
squiggly line, you know,sometimes I'll hear a podcast
about some weird scienceinnovation or you know, it's
it's from fucking all over theplace. But uh, yeah, a lot of it
comes comes from the productsthemselves I would say and from

(49:23):
the farmers that I now havedeveloped we've developed these
like amazing connections with alot of a lot of other Rick
restaurant restaurants in thecity and restaurants in other
places to like going to visitNew York going to visit
restaurants in Europe you know,once in a while when we're able
is super inspiring for me.

Ryan Gray (49:42):
Yeah, I was gonna say like travel, you know, Europe
for me for sure, particularlyItaly. I try and go as often as
humanly possible. I really amvery inspired by the like
traditional restaurants inItaly. I love love the idea of
like History and cooking andlike, you know, just like

(50:03):
sticking to like tradition andusing like these, like, you
know, local things. And

do you have anything you want to leave the
listeners with before we get outof here today any parting words,
words of wisdom, life advice?

Unknown (50:17):
Well by the book and food should be fine food
shouldn't just be like makingdinner or making a meal for
someone should just be a chore,like, it should be fun for
everybody. And that's it.
That's, I would say, try to keepit fun.

Ryan Gray (50:29):
Yeah, I agree with that. I mean, I think that like,
definitely, like, we take our,the business of a restaurant
seriously, you know, like, wewant the business to be healthy.
But we want the experience foreverybody from the guest to the
everyone on staff to be like,enjoyable and as fun as
possible. And I would love tosee, you know, more restaurants,

(50:53):
like just not take themselves soseriously, and try and have a
little more fun, it takes allthe joy out of it, when you make
it so serious, and there'snothing I want less than to go
to a place and feel like,everyone's trying so hard to be
like, so serious, and to belike, you know, at this, like,
it just, it's it's notinteresting to me anymore. And I

(51:15):
think that it creates a createsreally toxic environments, you
know, when like, there's so muchpressure on people to perform at
such a such a, like animpossibly high level. And so,
you know, I'd like to see theindustry continue to evolve in
like, healthier ways. And Ithink that, you know, that's
kind of like the that's kind of,I hope, where we're going.

(51:36):
Certainly, like with ourrestaurants, that's what we're
trying to be, you know, maintaina really high quality and
standard, but like, also, youknow, give people a quality of
life. You know,

yeah, I think happy employees and employees who have
some say into what their workday looks like, I think they're
gonna give better service thethat's going to transfer over to
your customers, and just thatoverall environment, you can
feel it like there's nothinglike going into one of those
stuffy, formal restaurants whereyou feel like, you know, I slide
my chair to go a bathroom, likesomeone's got to pull the chair
out, let tediously Fold thenapkin, by the time I come back,

(52:10):
and everyone just feels likethey're carrying that tension in
their shoulder and neck like,that translates over to the
dining experience, because I'vedefinitely felt that as a
customer. So I never,

Unknown (52:19):
I was just gonna say one of the I think one of our
goals, like when we have guestscome to the restaurant is that
we make a connection with theguests as well. And that makes
for like an extra specialexperience, not just a meal that
you ate came you ate, youlaughed, you know, it's creating
some kind of memorableexperience. And a lot of that
comes from like, giving theopportunity for people to
express themselves. And what'sinteresting about them, and

(52:41):
that's what makes for like anenjoyable experience. And I
think that's really what wetried to do with the book as
well, like try to kind ofcommunicate that same kind of
energy. So hopefully people willrespond to that. And you know,
feel connected to something aswell, like, that was kind of a
big, as Ryan mentioned earlierwould be motivation for us to
create this book. And, yeah,

well, that's what drew me to the book, because you
know, I have the opportunity tohave a lot of cookbook, authors
on the show. There's a ton ofcookbooks out there. And as I'm
kind of looking at them, it'slike, what's the vibe? And does
it seem like the people whowrote this book are also going
to be fun to have on the podcastand not just, you know, want to
shell they're kind of stuffy,like from their stuffy
restaurant. So it translatedover I got that so

Ryan Gray (53:20):
yeah, the fuck marry kill really? Make sure that that
you realize that we don't takeourselves that seriously, I

guess sets the tone. Yeah, it really does.

Ryan Gray (53:28):
I'm glad that we got that in there. I can't believe
that. I can't believe they putit in actually.

Thanks for coming on the show. That seems like an
amazing place to pause this.
We're going to promote the heckout of this book when it comes
out. Everything will be in theshow notes for the listeners and
let's spread the spread the lovearound right.

Unknown (53:47):
Thank you so much, man, really a pleasure. And to all of
our

listeners, as always has been Chris with the
Chefs Without Restaurantspodcast. Go to chefs without
restaurants.org To find ourFacebook group, mailing list and
check database. The community'sfree to join. You'll get gig
opportunities, advice onbuilding and growing your
business and you'll never missan episode of our podcast. Have
a great week.

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