Allen Hinds

What if your musical idols became your mentors? In our latest episode, we sit down with the extraordinary guitarist Allen Hinds to uncover the stories behind his transformative journey from the Southern rock roots of Minnesota and Alabama to the creative hub of Los Angeles. Allen Hinds shares how iconic bands like the Allman Brothers and Cream shaped his musical identity, while also reflecting on the rich and diverse influences of the South. Listen as he recounts his humbling yet pivotal experiences at Berklee and his deep appreciation for the vibrant, artistic ecosystem of California’s Laurel Canyon.

Allen opens up about the influential figures who guided him, such as Scott Henderson and Joe Pass, and the memorable interactions with legends like Robben Ford that profoundly impacted his career. He also narrates the unforgettable moments and serendipitous events that led him to teach at a prestigious music school and perform with renowned bands like Hiroshima and Bobby Caldwell. These stories offer invaluable insights into the challenges and triumphs that come with navigating the unpredictable landscape of the music industry, from record deals and contractual hurdles to the joys of spontaneous collaborations.

Don't miss Allen's reflections on his versatile career, from recent gigs and recording sessions to plans for future creative projects. Hear about his exciting performances, including a gig at a Burbank bistro with notable musicians and a successful tour in Japan. This episode wraps up with Allen expressing heartfelt gratitude and sharing a few light-hearted anecdotes, making it a must-listen for anyone passionate about music and the artistic journey. Tune in for an episode brimming with wisdom, humor, and the resilient spirit of a true musician.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
At long last.
Ladies and gentlemen, seasonfive of Chewing the Gristle is
indeed upon us, a convivialconversation fest between myself
, gregory S Caulk, esquire and avariety of musical potentates
from hither and yon, brought toyou by our friends at Wildwood
Guitars and our friends atFishman Transducers, of course,

(00:32):
both of which I've hadlong-standing and continuing
relationships with, and I'm verygrateful for their continued
support in this endeavor tobring you Chewing the Dog on
Gristle.
We've got a bunch of fun guests, some you have heard of, some
maybe not so much.
It'll be a little bit ofdiscovery and a little bit of
chaos all rolled into one.

(00:53):
Thanks for tuning in folks.
Now, without any further ado,let's chew some gristle.
Ladies and gentlemen, this weekon Chewing the Gristle, we have
the amazing Alan Hines.
He's out there in LA expandingminds with the power of his
sweet musical activity, and he'sbeen a stalwart teacher at GIT,

(01:17):
forever playing on sessions.
You've seen him on the road.
He's a madman.
Ladies and gentlemen, alanHines, this week chewing the
gristle.
Oh, ladies and gentlemen, boysand girls, once again we convene
around the gristle campfire fora little convivial conversation

(01:41):
.
And today we have a majesticmusician, guitar tickler
extraordinaire, alan Hines.
He hails from Alabamaoriginally.
Now he lives out there in thatLos Anglias and he's joining us
today for a littlechat-scaroonie.
Alan, how the hell are you?

Speaker 2 (02:02):
What an intro.
Thanks, I'm great.
I'm kind of waking up, you know, having my morning Joe, as it
were.

Speaker 1 (02:10):
I wish people could see I got my mug on here.
Because you are an Alabamian.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
You know, actually I was born in Minnesota, but I was
only there one month and thenwe moved south.
But most of my formative years,if they ever happened, was in
Alabama, nice was in Alabama,nice, whereabouts in Alabama,
auburn, a little universitycalled Auburn University, more
famous for their football thananything else.
Bo Jackson and Charles Barkleyactually for basketball yes,

(02:39):
famous.

Speaker 1 (02:39):
Auburn Knights.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
But it was a great place to grow up.
I mean, the south had, um, youknow, the combination of a lot
of cool things going on back inthe 70s.
It was great growing up with,uh, you know, in the 50 miles
away where the Allman brothers,so they were a huge influence.
I mean, you know the first, Ithink the first guitar player I
ever saw play live was, uh was,dickie Betts yes right right
after Dwayne had died.

(03:01):
Uh, they used to.
They did a tour and they hadlike a um, they set up a
microphone for Dwayne had died.
They did a tour and they hadlike a.
They set up a microphone forDwayne.
He wasn't there, you know, kindof a memorial to him.
And that was the first time Iever heard of Les Paul played
through a Marshall stack.
You know, it was like 1972.
Yep, I think.
You know, and it kind of blew meaway and ironic, well, this
kind of surprisingly to me, acouple of years ago I was in
Germany and this guy said I havesomething I want you to see.

(03:23):
And he brought me upstairs andhe had that same guitar that he
had the dickie betts guitar, uh,the same 57 gold top that
somebody had ripped off thefinish and tried to do a
sunburst with, you know, the,the matching book and they
weren't matching.
But uh, yeah, he had the sameguitar.
So I sat there and played theguitar and it was kind of just
like a weird dream, you know, toplay the first guitar I ever

(03:43):
heard yeah, that was the firsttime I ever heard electric
guitar really played like thatum.
And then being down south, beingaround a lot of black culture,
I heard a lot of blues stuff,you know when I was growing up.
So it was um, and you know thewhole food culture, everything
down there is great.
I mean, you know it's veryconservative.
I'm tend to be more liberal inmy political viewpoints but you
know, conservative and in otherthings about life I like a lot.

(04:05):
But yeah, no, I love the South.
I still go back there all thetime.
I have grandkids back there.
I have friends back in Auburn,birmingham.
You know I love it down there.
It's the nothing beats the food.
I love the environment, I loveit.
Yeah, it's great.
And California Laurel Canyon'snot bad either.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
Right, we did a little recording down there
years ago with Johnny Sandlinand Decatur oh yeah, sure, yeah.
And it was a blast.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
I love the stories about the Stones or whoever
saying let's go down and recorddown there in the South with all
those black musicians.
And they go down there and allthe swampers, all these like fat
, dumpy white guys who sellinsurance in the daytime and
play this funky-ass guitar, likeyou know.

Speaker 1 (04:42):
Yes, exactly so.
You grew up in alabama and thenyou, you did go to berkeley for
a while.
Did you do the?

Speaker 2 (04:50):
whole schmigag there, just go there for a little bit.
I went there one quarter justto be embarrassed enough to go
back, uh, to alabama and uh, youknow, my, my first day at
berkeley.
I remember I got there and itwas, um, uh, I somehow placed
into a harmony group that Iprobably shouldn't have been in.
But I remember I walked in,this teacher walked in.
He was like a drill sergeant, Imean, everything got really
quiet and he points at me.

(05:10):
I was on the front row.
He goes, give me the notes in Csharp, minor 7, flat, 5 chord,
and I went C sharp.
I got C sharp right, and thenthis little Japanese girl next
to me goes C-sharp, b-g-b, andhe went around the room and
everybody knew their stuff sowell.
So that embarrassing momentforced me to go and really, you
know, I kind of learned it allin one week.

(05:31):
It was just memorizing circleof fifths and sharps and flats.
You know I had, you know, thekey of A has three sharps
because it's an A and it's likethree.
You know, I learned how littlegimmicks are a way to learn
stuff fast, but what that did?
It kind of enabled me to tolike know what he was talking
about the next.
I didn't want to be the duncein the class, you know.
So, uh, yeah, I kind of kickedmy ass right off the bat and
then three months was kind ofgood to soak up, you know, to

(05:52):
hang out with these stinkyeuropean guys and uh, who were
smoking galois cigarettes and,you know, never use deodorant,
you know and the little berkeley.
Then I went back to alabama andyou know, as you know, like back
in 78, that's when I went in 78, even playing in top 40 bands,
we could get away with murderman, we played like Chick Corea
songs We'd do, some Dixie Dregsongs We'd do, then we'd turn

(06:15):
around and play a foreigner songand then we'd do you know the
mixture of stuff and growing upin Alabama, playing in cover
bands was we got away with.
You know, I would think now youkind of well, I don't even know
what's on the radio now, butback then there was such a great
variety, but we would alwaysthrow in something that was kind
of like, you know, weatherreport song or something.
It just kind of right.
It'd be good, cause nobody.
Everybody said, oh, that's kindof cool, and I know what it is
it was.
People were much more open andaccepting at it was a really fun

(06:42):
time to be a guitar player.
As you know, how old are you,greg?
I'm 58.
Okay, we're close, I'm 67.
Okay, but it's like, yeah, itwas just such a fertile time to
be playing guitar.
So anyway, yeah, berklee was abig help.
I learned my basic modes and theway music kind of is the
architecture of basic music, youknow.
And then years of pretending Iwas a rock star down in Alabama,

(07:08):
you know, cause we had like abig you know.
We are the apex, really theepitome of what you could do at
that point, for what I was doingwas play for the fraternity
party.
So we'd play all the springbreaks for university of Alabama
and Georgia and Mississippi and, you know, louisiana.
We were always on the beachplaying and we were just chasing
girls and having fun playingmusic, which is what rock and
roll is kind of supposed to beabout, I guess, you know, and we

(07:28):
had a great time.
And then, um, and then I got alittle more serious, I and out
of you know, back back then,like we were all following
whatever happened in GuitarPlayer Magazine you know we were
, you know I had a subscriptionthat to that, of course, and
would read every article thatTommy Tedesco did and whatever,
uh, back in the day.
And then they had a.
They had a scholarship, uh, acompetition in guitar player

(07:49):
magazine.
So I entered that and I wonthat.
That was a.
I won the larry carltonscholarship to mi.
So I got, I got the free yearof school at mi, which is what
it offered at the time.
They said, wow, you, you're,you're winning is worth 2400.
That's how much a year ofschool was at MI back in 1984,
85.

Speaker 1 (08:06):
A little different now A little different now.

Speaker 2 (08:08):
It's like for one class, for one quarter, you know
.
But that was pretty cool and Imean, I don't know if Larry
actually chose me, but theteachers chose me.
So I got free school because myfamily was pretty poor.
My dad had split up with my mom, we were kind of just living.

(08:31):
You know, my mom was usingwelfare at the time and and we
were just didn't have any money.
So, um, you know, we're eatingpowdered eggs, it's packing out,
but uh, uh.
So I was pretty poor, so I waspretty lucky, and then I got to
go to mi and, um, you know, itwas a great, yeah, that was a
great time to be at mi too.
There was jeff buckley was there, the great singer, songwriter?
A lot of my students reverejeff buckley now, and he and I
used to play standards every daytogether because he was a real
kind of a jazz head.
He was only 18.
But we were both playing theseeclectic, you know, wayne
Shorter, miles Davis songs.

(08:52):
We just duck into a room everyday, and he and I both worked at
this magic thing called theMagic Hotel out here too, which
is, we both worked the nightshift, so we get to stay up all
night and practice guitars atthis little hotel near the Magic
Hotel, anyway.

(09:12):
But you know, oliver Wood fromthe Wood Brothers was there,
jimmy Herring was there.
Yeah, there were a lot of justreally good players coming out
of that kind of era.
And Frank Ibali had just gottenfamous.
You know, he was just getting,he was still teaching there and
hadn't yet gotten any gigs yetwith Jean-Luc Ponty or Chick
Corea yet at the time.
So, yeah, I walked down thehallway at MI in 85, and here's
the way it would go.
It would be Scott Hendersonwould be on your left, frank
Imbali's room was on the right,jeff Berlin, there was Jennifer

(09:36):
Batten oh, joe Pass is heretoday and Robin Ford was here
like one week out of every month.
It was a great environment forguitar players.

Speaker 1 (09:39):
That is crazy.
So when you were down inAlabama before you went to
Berklee, what was your musicaltastes or your goals at that
time?
Were you kind of into the jazzstuff a little bit, or was it
more kind of rock and blues andwhatnot?

Speaker 2 (09:55):
No, you know, my earliest, my older, I had older
brothers and sisters so theywould always bring in the
records and I, you know, I heardHendrix, you know, first, are
you experienced?
That just freaked me out, theway it looked and the way it
sounded.
Uh, the Allman Brothers, ofcourse I always liked
songwriters.
Uh, I like Joni Mitchell,because she always had just such
beautiful melodies and greatlyrics and great musicians right

(10:17):
, I mean all of her.
She went through so many greatperiods where she has Larry
Carlton one day and Robin Fordthe next and there's's Jocko on
everything.
It's just like Pat Metheny,right.
So I don't know.
We were pretty open.
I was a pretty.
My friends were prettyprogressive.
You know my friends, all theirparents taught at the university
so they weren't all local, butwe hung out with all the local
kids too.

(10:38):
So we played a lot of.
I gravitated towards songwritersand pop songwriters more than I
did jazz ever, even in my songsnow on my records now they're
less.
I might look back at when Iactually were doing a new class
at Musicians Institute wherethey're featuring my songs or
ensembles playing my tunes.
I'm taking over where DeanBrown left off.

(11:00):
If you know, dean Brown haspassed away, so I'm doing his
type of their Alan Hines songs Iwas thinking about when I was
explaining to the students.
You know the form of the songs.
My stuff is pretty pop.
I mean I have an intro, I havea verse I had, you know.
I have a chorus.
I usually have a bridge inthere and a guitar solo.
So I'm pretty much it's not thejazz exploration like a lot of
guys like scott henderson.

(11:20):
Right, it's more.
My stuff's really more pop.
But I hope with a twist ofharmony it makes it a little
more interesting than youraverage smooth jazz or pop stuff
, you know.
But yeah, early on it wassongwriters I think.
For me it was the Beatles, forsure.

Speaker 1 (11:34):
Was there any doubt, like from the get go, that
that's what you wanted to do, orwhat?
At what point did you realizethat's what you wanted to do?

Speaker 2 (11:40):
I didn't know until I was 17.
Wanted to do.
I didn't know till I was 17.
I didn't really pick up aguitar till I was like 17 years
old.
It was like in the my uhsophomore year at high school
when I was, you know, my brotherhad a line around the house and
I picked it up.
I had a really good friendnamed jack fitzpatrick who just
passed away but he was um uh,really instrumental in uh.
He had perfect pitch.
He could play piano from thetime he was like 12.

(12:00):
He was playing at his dad's youknow parties.
He was just a kid wonder whohad perfect pitch, who even
after he didn't play for like 20years he could sit down and
still play the right voicingsfor Steely Dan songs.
You know he was just a greatthinker and he got me started
with you know, how to hearharmony and how to go about you
know, hearing harmony parts andhearing chord progressions and

(12:22):
hearing complex stuff.
So he was a big influence on mebut it was, you know I started
17 late.
They had an experimental uh labband.
They called it at our highschool where we were doing.
Well, it was a big band so itcouldn't have been too hip.
I mean at the time, uh, for ahigh school band in alabama but
we were doing, like you know,some uh, blood, sweat and tears
or chicago songs kind ofdifferent arrangements so the

(12:45):
high school kids could play it.
So I was getting exposed tostuff like that and I had a
guitar liner in and I justautomatically picked it up.
I kind of had the pentatonicthing nailed pretty quick.
I could find little patternsand make it work and I said, oh,
that's what Dickie Betts isdoing there.
And then one thing just led toanother, trying to hear what
Clapton and Hendrix and theAllman brothers pretty much were
doing.

(13:06):
Those are my early and JeffBeck, jeff Beck from, even from
the Yardbird.
My sister had all the Yardbirdstuff.
So I remember, even back beforeI even picked up guitar, I was
like you know, I was groovingand singing to all the Yardbird
stuff.
For sure it was definitely notjazz until until jazz was kind
of popular in the 70s, you know.

Speaker 1 (13:22):
Got it?
Yeah, it sounds like we hadsimilar influences.

Speaker 2 (13:25):
My siblings had the record collections too, and it
was Hendrix and Cream and AllmanBrothers and James Gang and all
that kind of stuff and we hadSam and Dave and Otis Redding
and I remember the Four SeasonsLightning Striking Again.
Remember those.

Speaker 1 (13:40):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, lightning Striking Again.

Speaker 2 (13:42):
Songs like that.
Oh, my father had a HenryMancini record the Greatest Hits
and I listened to that as muchas anything, because you know
Moon River and stuff.
Some of those songs were justfantastic.

Speaker 1 (13:55):
You know Exactly.
So when you ended up out inCalifornia, what kind of
happened after you went to GIT?
Did you start doing sessions?

Speaker 2 (14:01):
right away and stuff Did you have your own band.
Well, I mean, I was one of thebetter players.
Whether I could get over allthe hardest chord progressions
or not, I always had a goodenough ear to fake it.
I was really good at kind offinding my way on the fretboard

(14:21):
even if I didn't know exactlywhat to play.
But Scott Henderson was a biglearning help for me at time,
cause he explained to me howmelodic minor works and how the
different diminished scales canbe used, and that's all been
fascinating to me.
When I hear cause I I neverwanted to be left out.
So when I'd hear Schofield andRobin Ford some guys do stuff
that was a little moreinteresting, a little bit
outside the box, and and Ialways wanted to know what that

(14:42):
was.
So I was all and I'm prettysocially extroverted, so I would
.
I was not shy about askingquestions, you know, over and
over again, so I would bugpeople to death.
But what about this?
What is this, you know?
And actually Robin Ford was my.
He was there one week out ofevery month I was there.
So he and I kind of becamefriends to this day and we just
talked the other day.
He was always really helpfulfor me.

(15:07):
Um, uh, so yeah, so I got I wasone of the better students.
They're probably, you knowthere's.
There are all the guys that aregreat and everybody,
everybody's really great intheir own way.
I remember one day, uh, sittingwith joe pass and this is a name
I'll drop, just because thisstory was pretty funny we were
playing um.
He had everybody.
Like he said give your bestplayers.
So they had like six of us.
I don't know why I was in thecause.
I really wasn't a jazz player,but I can get over chord changes

(15:28):
and so we're playing a jazzblues, 12 bar blues, and he
would, joe would call out a newkey when you get to the end of
the form, okay, f sharp.
So then you had to nail, youknow, and go into like a jazz
blues and F sharp, he would justcall these things.
It was a great practice.

(15:49):
But I remember there's like sixguitar players and they're all
playing these or whatever, and Iwas.
I wasn't going to do that.
So I was trying to go like I'mtrying to do some kind of holds
with shit up high, and hestopped the band.
He goes, he has a cigar, hegoes.
Don't you know any good chords.
I was like I got shot down byJoe Pass immediately, you know.

(16:12):
So it was pretty funny.
But actually afterwards hefound me in the hallway Because
I was friends with Joe DiIorioat the time they were good
friends and he found meafterwards and said you know,
give me some compliments.
But that kind of thing kind ofmade me realize, you know, I'm
never going to be that guy, I'mnever going to be the straight
ahead Julian Lage, maybe thegreat.
I love listening to jazz guys,but I'm much more of a of a feel

(16:34):
good.
But you know, whatever I canget around.
Ok, so at the final meeting ofall the students, they used to
have these suggestion meetingswhere Tommy Tedesco and Howard
Roberts and Pat Hicks whoeverowned the school came in and
they asked the students whatthey could do to improve the
school.
And one of my classmates stoodup and said Alan Hines should be
teaching here.
So Tommy Tedesco goes, who'sAlan Hines?

(16:56):
And so I stood up and he saidyou got a job.
So I've been teaching thereever since.

Speaker 1 (16:59):
Oh, no shit.

Speaker 2 (17:00):
Yeah, but I but I never was a core instructor like
of uh, I mean, I'm a horriblesight reader.
I mean I can read chord chartspretty well, but sight reading
stuff I would never put me inthat.
I got another great story aboutbeing embarrassed of that, but
anyway, um, I have a lot ofembarrassing stories.
But so I got been teachingthere ever since and, um, but
immediately I started back thenthey used to have a lot of

(17:21):
auditions out here.
You know, I don't think they domuch anymore, but they had a
lot of like open auditions whereyou just go audition.
My first audition was withJean-Luc Ponty actually, and I
remember I got a call from hismanagement.
They had heard a tape of meplaying with somebody in one of
the school jams and playing oversome standards, and they liked
the way I played.
So I got called and so, ofcourse, course, because it was

(17:46):
my first audition, I called allmy friends back in Alabama.
I called all my friends I knew.
I said man, I'm auditioning,they all go.
They're like man, you're gonnaget it.
I just know you're perfect forthat gig.
You sound like Holdsworth, youcan do the Holdsworth thing, and
blah, blah, blah.
And so I walked into the to therehearsal studio and there was.
I'd never met anybody I'd seenon records before, right, except
for Robin Ford, you know.
So I walk in and I'm supposedto perform for him and I was

(18:06):
just I froze like a deer in theheadlights and I remember, you
know, I'd forgotten all theparts and the songs were an odd
meter which I'm terrible at,terrible at anyway, I wasn't the
right guy.
But I remember the next day Iget a call on the phone.
It was Alan fuck off, matthias.
I just figured it was my friendMatthias messing with me, you
know.
And his phone got really quiet.

(18:26):
I went, oh oh, it was on thephone and he called me just to
say.
He said look, you have the mostbeautiful tone of anybody, but
I have to go with Frank Gambale,and I said so.
Lessons learned here is likemake sure you learn the stuff
doubly good to account fornerves and don't tell everybody
you're auditioning for anythinguntil you get it.

(18:48):
I had to kind of relive thatstory over for the next year.
But I did start getting a lotof the auditions I went out for
it was a band called Hiroshima,which at the time were really
big smooth jazz guys and theywere doing a big United States
tour.
So I got that gig.
I was playing with BobbyCaldwell.
It was, you know, what youWon't Do for Love.
Actually, I just started lastnight.

(19:13):
Bobby passed away last year andhis management found these old
like 16 songs that he's singingon their disc demos.
So they're extracting hisvocals and we're redoing some of
these songs that have neverbeen put out before and, um, I
just started working on them.
It's very 90s pop, you know.
I don't know if you know bobbycaldwell's, you know uh, his, uh
cat, uh his catalog.

(19:35):
But he wrote so many things forpeter satara and chicago and
the commodores and boz gags andalgero.
He wrote a lot of songs for alot of people and I played with
him for like three years.
I played with Hiroshima forabout three years.
Gino Vanelli I auditioned forthat Actually this was a
recommendation from Haslip.
Jimmy Haslip is a friend ofmine, so that was a fun guitar

(19:56):
gig.
Was Gino Vanelli's?
Because if you don't know hismusic, he was.
I remember Gino Vanilla.
Yep, yeah, his stuff.
I mean it was almost likeSteely Dan, hard, you know, in
the chord changes,sophistication Right and great
musicians always.
I think he introduced kind ofVinnie and Haslip to the scene
back then.
But his is one of those tragicrecord business stories.
You know he got destroyedovernight by having an argument

(20:20):
with Clive Davis.
And they took all this stuff offthe shelf overnight by having
an argument with Clive Davis andthey took all this stuff off
the shelf overnight and he spentthe next 10 years paying for
lawyers to get out of thecontract so he could do anything
else.
That's why Gino Vanelli, thefirst record he did with
Appaloosa or I Just Wanna Stopand Tell you what I Feel about
big hits back in the day whichnow you'll see the old Time Life
hits, or this CD has all thehits on it and Gino's always on

(20:44):
there someplace, you know, withhis hair.

Speaker 1 (20:47):
You know doing the Right Brother to Brother.
That was another one, right.

Speaker 2 (20:49):
Brother to Brother was a big guitar and they always
had big guitar solos in them,you know, right.
So that was a great gig, but he, yeah, overnight lost it and he
the songs that they wanted himto air supply songs, oh no,
kidding, even the night, allthose like air supply songs
would have been gino vanellisongs had he, you know, stuck
with clive.
But it was kind of tragicbecause gino, I think, was

(21:10):
really talented and he's a goodfriend.
Now I just recorded somethingfor him, um, uh, last month for
his new, next record, um, butyeah, so I got several gigs like
that, you know, gigs that weretook a little more than just
playing funky rhythms and singlenote stuff, a lot of the R&B
stuff.
I did like James Ingram or PattyAustin or Randy Crawford.

(21:31):
I played with Randy Crawfordfor many years too, and she's
another great singer, gifted,kind of bipolar, so she's kind
of hard to get along with, butshe's liked me and I played with
her for 15 years, off and on,on and off, and we went to
Europe.
That was my main gig, I guess,for about well, kind of longer
than that, I guess, 20 years,and we had a whole tour planned

(21:52):
for 2018, 19.
And it got.
She had a couple of ministrokes, but that was it they
sent me to.
That's why I know all over theworld, from Japan,
australiaralia, south africa weplayed everywhere and to big,
huge crowds.
So, um, that was great, thatwas a great time.
You know, get traveling, getpaid for it excellent yeah you

(22:13):
know we're.

Speaker 1 (22:14):
Unfortunately we're only using the audio here, but I
see a couple of glorious.
It looks like a broadcaster inthe uh in the back.
There are uh, an esquire and auh and an old old Tele in the
background there.

Speaker 2 (22:26):
My favorite go-to guitar is a 1952 Esquire.

Speaker 1 (22:30):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (22:31):
And everything's original on it, except for the
pickguard which I refused to buy.
It's been $3,500 for apickguard, but yeah, that's a
great guitar.
That's kind of my go-to.
Compare all guitars to thatguitar, you know.

Speaker 1 (22:44):
Well, there's something about Esquires, you
know it's a great guitar.
That's kind of my go-to.
Compare all guitars to thatguitar, you know, well, there's
something about Esquires, youknow, it's just that single pick
, same with Les Paul Juniors.
It's that one pickup Gettingall the magnetic juice.
It just has a thing.

Speaker 2 (22:53):
I'm kind of a believer there's a little more
zing there.
For that reason no-transcriptgot two, which is a 64 oh, it is

(23:15):
cool yeah, it's a real.
It's a real one, which is Ijust got back from japan.
It was a long story.
It had to have some work doneto it.
Instead of historic makeoverswhich is great a company down in
Florida I opted for thiscompany in Japan that does the
same thing for about a third ofthe price.
I go to Japan a lot through myconnection with exotic guitars.

Speaker 1 (23:35):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (23:35):
I got you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I've been kind of hooked upwith them for years.
They're out here in Californiaso I have a lot of their guitars
.
They have some new prototypes Ithink that are wonderful too.
I'll tell you a guitar you gotto check out really quick.
Greg, you'd appreciate this.
I just got this back.
There's a guy in Baton Rougehis name is Hoagie Hoager, not
so.
Have you ever heard of this guy?

Speaker 1 (23:55):
No, he uh, yeah, joe.

Speaker 2 (23:57):
Bonamassa, it's a 1925 Martin 018 and I bought it
Out of curiosity.
I got it for cheap cuz it wasin pieces and so he said there's
a guy in Baton Rouge who doesthe best work, so I sent it to
him.

Speaker 1 (24:20):
So I sent it to him.
I don't know how well you canhear oh, it sounds great.
Does it have one of those bigV-necks on it?

Speaker 2 (24:29):
yes, it's just gorgeous, you don't have to do
anything to it, you know, andit's as light as a potato chip
and I was thinking, oh, it'sgoing to be old, it's going to
be hard to play, it's going tobe frumpy, but man, it's just
the notes.
I took it to Joe Bonamassa, whois my neighbor.

(24:50):
He lives five minutes walk fromhere and so I brought it over
to his house.
I showed it to him, he loved it.
And then, of course, he breaksout his five Martins pre-war Of
course.

Speaker 1 (25:03):
Yeah, I was going to ask you.
You had the SG out.
I don't know what it is, but Ididn't really notice it until
you know, I do all those videosat Wildwood and I started
playing the SGs and I was likewhat is that sound?
For some reason, the way myhand rests on the bridge, my
pick is always hitting the neckpickup on an SG.
Pick is always hitting the neckpickup on an SG.
I'm always hearing this oh,weird, yeah, yeah, and it's only

(25:25):
with SGs, everything else.

Speaker 2 (25:25):
I'm kind of right in the middle.
There it's got to be becausethere's so much.
I mean, your vantage point withan SG is so you're right on top
of the pickup, if that's whereyou normally pick with a Strat
Exactly.
This thing is great, though Ican do my Dickie Betts licks.

(25:54):
Yeah, it's a great soundingguitar.
These old pickups are littlepad number pickups.

Speaker 1 (26:05):
Yeah, one of my favorite tones of all time, of
course, was the Cream SG intothe Marshall tone.
That was one of my faves,that's freaking awesome.

Speaker 2 (26:12):
And my favorite one that I always tell my students
about is I mean, I actually likeDwayne Allman's playing a
little better than Dickie Betts'.
I thought his time was better.
I love the.
I actually like Dwayne Allman'splaying a little better than
Dickie Betts'.
I thought his time was better.
I play a lot of slide too,right, but the tone that Dickie
Betts gets on the solo on OneWay Out, oh, it's diabolical.
Yeah, it's just blasting to aMarshall 100-watt Bum, bum, bum,
bum, ba-da-dum, bum dum.

(26:33):
Yeah, oh man about it, becauseit's um, it's just like the
epitome of what paf should soundlike.
You can hear all the harmonicsyeah, it's great.

Speaker 1 (26:44):
Yeah, the duane and dickie thing that's uh.
You know it's kind ofinteresting because back in the
day, remember, when I firstheard the record, I loved
duane's slide playing, but Ikind of preferred dickie's
conventional playing, especially, like you know, on live at the
film or sure, uh, just becausehe was more precise, you know
what I mean.
And then, and then after awhile it's like no, I like the.

(27:04):
I mean not that I you have topick one, I like them both.
Uh, but I really got into thegreasy nature of of duane's ways
, even though that sometimes hewould over band or whatever the
case may be.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
But yeah, yeah, people, I've had people say,
yeah, you mean like the allthe-tune stuff you played on the
end of Layla and you know, didyou ever check out?
There was a.
You could buy the outtakes fromthe Layla sessions.

Speaker 1 (27:27):
Yes, I got that one yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
I spent $50 on that and got it and I can see why
they used the ones they did.
Right, because there were somejams that were just totally you
know they were all just liketorqued up out of their mind and
having fun jamming.
So but uh, you're right, I meandickie betts had a certain and
he had an interesting I meaneven to this day he had some
interesting patterns that werethat were kind of nice.
You know that I and he was veryprecise listen to um jessica or

(27:50):
the song that the after duanedied.
When they did um, those arehe's like really great his time
he would rush a lot but you knowthey were doing.
Nobody cared that much backthen.
And what I like about theFillmore East album is that when
they both or maybe it's the Eto Peach album where they break
down, where it's just like drumsand guitar, oh yeah, on Live at
the Fillmore yeah exactly.

(28:10):
Oh man, that is just so On oneway out.

Speaker 1 (28:12):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (28:14):
Oh my God, that's so because they just create stuff
and then the band comes in.
Yeah, it was great.
I love the All-In-One.
They were so much more thanjust another Southern rock band.
Charlie Daniels' band had somekind of one song.
That was pretty cool, can't youSee?
Leonard Skinner's first album,I guess, was pretty cool.
But I don't know Somethingabout the All-In-One.
Brothers were a little bit astep above all that stuff.

(28:35):
And Greg, just you know.
Greg's a singing fool 80 yearold black guy at age 18, you
know, yeah, it's not weird.

Speaker 1 (28:41):
I just till this day, I just tell people I'm like you
know, when you listen to liveat the Fillmore.
I mean he was 23 years old onthere and then you listen to
that stuff, even in hourglass.
You know, years before, when hewas a teenager, he was I know
he was singing like yeah, it'sjust crazy, yeah, yeah and
Dwayne Allman's slide playing.

Speaker 2 (28:59):
Of course, dwayne.
Yeah, and Dwayne Allman's slideplaying, of course.
My favorite Dwayne Allman slidestuff is on.
I think it's Trouble, no More.
Yeah, his fills, that he does.
I don't care.
The stuff he does behind him isjust the slickest stuff that
Derek Trucks wishes he could do.
No, I'm kidding.

Speaker 1 (29:20):
Well you know what's interesting is that because of
the advent of YouTube and peopleare just because I had friends
of mine back in the day who werereal bootleg collectors, you
know they had and they wouldsend away for all this shit and
bargain with people and go tothe little conventions and I
never had the organizationalskills to go that deep but I

(29:42):
would occasionally benefit fromtheir quests.
But now all of that shit'sonline.
So it's amazing to me when youhear all the different Dwayne
era live stuff that you can getand they're in various different
conditions sonically speaking,as far as the audio quality.
But man, depending on the nightStatesboro Blues opened, and
they always as the audio quality, but man, depending on the
night Statesboro blues open, andthey always did the same set,

(30:03):
which was crazy to me as much asthey improvised within the
songs and those were alldifferent.
The set list was like the sameand they'd start with Statesboro
and there would be times whereit's I mean they were always
great, but there'd be nightswhere you could tell he had a,
he had a swerve on.
You know what I mean he was alittle buzzed and it was a
little more syrupy and it wasjust like to your point.

(30:25):
I mean, it's like I alwaysliked Dwayne's.
I mean again, it's not likewho's the best or whatever, but
I just preferred Dwayne's grimebecause it's just so stinking
Well, he had a certainsophistication that was still
steeped in traditional Southernblues.
Right, exactly.

Speaker 2 (30:43):
But he had something in the exit that was a little
bit more elegant.
It was almost like thedifference between hearing a
Southern accent and gone withthe wind and hearing an accent
in a Trump rally.
You know, it was just adifferent.
They're both Southern, but theSouthern accent can be quite
charming, right.
Yeah, you know, if was just adifferent.
You're both Southern, you know,but the Southern accent can be
quite charming, all right.
Yeah, you know, if you do itright, you know so, and that's

(31:04):
the way Dwayne always kind ofseemed to me.
But you know, I would haveloved to have met him boy.
He just died way too young.
And another guy who I liked awhole lot was was Lowell George.

Speaker 1 (31:13):
Oh yeah, I'm a huge think.

Speaker 2 (31:17):
I know he's another guy who I just like you know I
stumped my students because I itsounds like a lot of songs
might be easy just to firstlisten, but when you actually
try to learn them, the kicks andthe chords and the progression.

Speaker 1 (31:27):
They're a bitch, no doubt.

Speaker 2 (31:29):
Totally Very cool and very different.
And he's another one who diedtoo young.
I Joe Bonham also just boughthis.

Speaker 1 (31:35):
I saw that the dumbbell yeah, yep.

Speaker 2 (31:36):
I was over at his house the other day I said I was
trying to get him to tell mehow much he paid.
I said so you must have paid alot for this, joe, and he goes
yeah, it was a fortune.
You know I wanted to go.
Well, how much damn it.
You know, I don't know ifanybody knows exactly how much
he paid for it, but he just yeah, yeah, the Lowell contraption,
that's pretty awesome.
Yeah, back in Alabama when wewere trying to, I even tried,

(31:58):
you know, playing slide guitarwith a Craftsman socket wrench,
like he did, and using theDynacomp compressors, and I had
a Music man amp.
That was as close as I couldcome.

Speaker 1 (32:08):
That's what Paul used .
Paul Burrell would always usethe Music man amp I used to see
them on stage.

Speaker 2 (32:13):
I can buy those in the store, but I never knew
about the Dumble, of course,back then.
But there's one particularlowell george recording that I
like.
Well, I like his songwriting,you know right it's just you
know, and he was one love stand.
I mean all those songs are great, two trains running, yeah, but
um uh, there's a on youtube.
Another great thing aboutyoutube is that there's one uh

(32:33):
concert at the rainbow in londonright, which I guess rainbow uh
, some club there.
But and in the first couplesongs his voice is kind of rough
, it's not really clicking.
But man, when you get into likethe third or fourth song on,
it's just like over the topgreat.
And he's just so charismaticand so spot on great.
I mean he must have been a funhang for sure.

Speaker 1 (32:52):
Well, paul used to tell me stories.
You know because I was prettygood friends with Paul Barrere.
Oh, before I forget, they I sawit like last year his daughter
was selling his guitar after hepassed away.

Speaker 2 (33:05):
Oh, I didn't see that .

Speaker 1 (33:05):
Yeah, what he used like a PB guitar or no music man
guitar, right well, he had amusic man and then he had those
like late 60s, early 70s strats.
There was like kind of thecocoa colored, one coffee
colored, and then he had theblack one, and he had the one
tuned to like open D and theother one was tuned to open G.

Speaker 2 (33:21):
Well, she was Paul Burrow's daughter was selling
one of his guitars and Iactually I wrote her.
I said I said, you know, Ithink she was asking like how
much it was worth or somethinglike I can't remember what it
was, but I was considering maybeputting a bid on that because,
just a bit of history.

Speaker 1 (33:34):
Anyway, but he would have great story, he said.
Of course their recreationalchemical habits back then were
prolific.
And he would say that they bothknew each other's songs because
when the song would begin andthey were going up to the
microphone they would look ateach other to see who was going
to be able to pull it off.

(33:55):
And he said one time they'regoing up to the microphone at
the same time.
Lowell had a big rock right inhis beard.
And Paul's, like I'll get thisone, yeah, right.

Speaker 2 (34:07):
I'm sure it happened a lot man.

Speaker 1 (34:08):
The wildest story he told.
Well, there were all kinds ofstories, but they were opening
up for the who and they weredoing two nights in a row in I
forgot what town, but they wereat the same venue for two nights
in a row.
So they get done with the firstshow and they go back to the
hotel and it's Lowell and Richieand Paul Barrere and um and

(34:29):
Keith moon in a room and theyjust start partying and they're
going, and they're going, andthey're going, and they're
having a good old time untilthere's a knock at the door and
the road manager comes in andgoes.
It's time for the second show,the door and the road manager
comes in and goes, it's time forthe second show.

Speaker 2 (34:42):
I believe it.
You know, there's some great um, there's a great thing on
youtube about him when he saidwas hanging out with linda
ronstadt a lot and they're doinglike an interview and some I
want to say tucson, because Ithink that's where she was from,
some tucson or el paso tucson,I think she's they're doing like
a radio interview and they'reboth there together, together,
and they're just delightful.
They must have had so much funtogether Because he had a really

(35:04):
good silly side and he was justyou know.
Yeah, I have a lot of respectfor Little Feet now and it was
hard for me to listen to himafter Because Lowell was such a
huge presence in that band Sure,no doubt.
And Robin played on the lastrecord.
He that band no doubt, androbin had a robin played on
their last on the last record orthe record on down on the farm.
Yeah, yeah, and um, and I askedrobin, I said, did you meet him?

(35:26):
He said yeah, just one time, itwas very briefly, you know, he
came into the studio and robinor before, but I think when
robin did the solo he wasn'talive anymore.
But um, yeah, those are some.
Like you know, I hear storiesevery night and where I live in
laurel canyon, he, um, they hada house right around on Hermit's
Glen, right, I bought aroundthe block from where I live and
I every now and then I walk upthere and just kind of think
about because it's one of thesebeautiful little cul-de-sacs up

(35:48):
here in Laurel Canyon with allthese beautiful trees, just so
you'd like this picture, youknow, bonnie Raitt and those
guys sitting out there on thedoorstep, yeah, a, yeah, a lot
of history out here.
Man, it's a.
You know, laurel kane's alittle different now.
It's mostly like screenwritersand it's not the musician hang,
like it used to be there's.
So how long you've been livingthere?
I've been here since 94.

(36:08):
I was after the big earthquakein 94.
I was in the valley and I wasgonna hightail it back to um,
atlanta, georgia or someplacedown south because, um, I was
working a lot but, uh, when theI was in the valley when the hit
, when the earthquake hit, itscared the crap out of me so
much I was thinking, god, Idon't want to stay here, what am
I here for?
But then somebody said, youknow, the hills don't move as

(36:29):
much because they were formed byearthquakes.
And so I said, okay, so I'llgive it a second chance.
And I came up here and foundthis little guest house and um
landlady's suite, as she can be,and I it's like about a half an
acre lie with a creek outsideyou can't see it from the road.
I can play guitar all nightlong, my cat's, um, you know.
So I lucked up into a greatplace and she's pretty much kept
the rent the same for 30 years.

(36:50):
Oh, no shit, awesome.
Yeah, it's pretty cool.
And, laura, can you I mean,hollywood has changed a lot,
laura, can you?
But it's still, you know, closeto the beach and it's close to
you know, if I need to getanywhere, I can kind of zip down
to the airport pretty quickly.
So it's, it's okay.
I mean, I don't know, I still Ican see me someday, I was going
to say when I get old but I'malready old when I get older

(37:10):
getting back, getting back downsouth someplace.
You know I have friends andgrandkids in Birmingham, so it's
tempting.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
We interrupt this regularly scheduled
gristle-infested conversation togive a special shout-out to our
friends at Fishman Transducers,makers of the Greg Koch
Signature Fluence Gristle TonePickup Set Can you dig that?
And our friends at WildwoodGuitars of Louisville, colorado,
bringing the heat in the shadowof the Rocky Mountains.
Where do you live, greg?

(37:45):
I live in Wisconsin.
I live in the Milwaukee area.
Yeah, so we're actually justabout to head out by you again.

Speaker 2 (37:53):
We're leaving tomorrow.

Speaker 1 (37:54):
And we're doing St Louis, Kansas City, Denver,
Phoenix.
See, we need to talk.

Speaker 2 (38:02):
It's so weird because I I mean sorry, I didn't mean
to cut you off, that's all right.
But my band.
It's so weird because I havesix CDs of music and my stuff's
like not fusion, it's not reallyblues, it's not in the middle
and I'm a hard sell.
I think so, and thanks toExotic I've been able to build a
following in Japan of allplaces, and I went over there a

(38:24):
lot with Bobby Caldwell, ofcourse, in the years past.
But the last 20 years I've beenable to go over there and do
clinics and concerts throughJapan, but never in the United
States and in Europe I can dostuff every now and then too.
Before COVID I was going toNorway and Sweden and Italy and
places, but I signed my firstrecord deal two years ago here
in the States.

Speaker 1 (38:43):
You were telling me about that.

Speaker 2 (38:44):
Jay Marciano, which is I was excited.
You know I was getting ready to, you know, set the world on
fire Cause I got a record dealand pretty much they wanted
after they finally listened tomy stuff.
After six months he said, alan,we listened to your CD and it's
not very commercial.
I said, well, yeah, it's notvery commercial.
I said well, yeah, it's notvery commercial.
That's, you signed me to, youknow anyway.
So they wanted me.
I had to go back in the studio.

(39:04):
I did a couple commercialtracks, covers, and they got on
the radio all of a sudden.
I was all over a serious exam.
But it turns out the recorddeal I signed was with umg and
they keep all of the all of theproceeds until they recoup.
And I was trying to figure outwhat are they recouping from.
I made the record before I gaveit to them.
But they tell me it's for allthe promotion stuff.
They can tell me anything theywant to, of course.
Of course they can.
So now I haven't been able toput out my last CD, which I'm

(39:28):
pretty.
I sent it to you, I think, atsome point, just to the
SoundCloud, but I haven't beenable to release because I'm
under contract and they kind ofown the rights to it.
So it's been really frustrating.
I was trusting the process andthey kind of said well, we'll
build you up on Smooth Jazz andwe'll get you an agent.
Then you can go out and dothese concerts and play a couple
of the commercial songs and dowhatever you want to do.
And it never really happened.

(39:49):
So it's kind of I have afeeling I'm just like another
one of those stories about therecord business who you know
just lost out.
So right now we're trying toget out of the contract so I can
put my new stuff out.
What new stuff?
New stuff that I finished in2019.
Sure, out and um, it'll stillbe new to most people.
But yeah, it's been kind offrustrating and I wish I could
get around.
You know, if I go to europe, Ican play in italy and, uh,

(40:11):
portugal and london and throughthe in japan.
I can go all over, but I don'treally have that kind of
following in the states, um, orat least I don't have the
hookups to know where to go toplay.

Speaker 1 (40:22):
Well, what's interesting is I always tell
folk, you know, it took until Iwas, you know, 54 years old
before I had an agent in theStates.
I've had an agent in Europe for20 years, you know.
But that's to your point.
I mean it's you have a.
Getting a record deal is almostthe easy part.
Of course, nowadays, recorddeals are not what they used to

(40:44):
be.
But even 20 years ago, when Igot my first deal and I thought,
oh, this is great.
Now I'm going to get, you know,I'll get a booking agent and
I'll begin to tour and all thatother kind of shit, and I
remember calling up agents andthey're like, uh, well, how much
airplay are you getting and inwhat markets?
I'm like, well, none that Iknow of.
But I got this record deal nowand I'm, you know, I'm doing all

(41:04):
this stuff for Fender and theybook clinics all over the place
and we could probably, you know,book gigs in between.
It's like I could not getarrested at at with a booking
agency, any kind of stonewalling.
It's like I ask once you knowwhat I mean, I'm not going to
keep on harassing people and Ididn't have representation at

(41:27):
the time, but yeah, it wasalways one of those things where
I would try to get agents.
We'd play festivals, we'd get aone-off thing and book a couple
things around it, and it wouldgo great and the crowds would go
crazy and couple of thingsaround it and, and it would go
great and the crowds would gocrazy, and then try to follow up
with an agent.
It's just, it's just socounterintuitive.
You know, it's just a matter offinding the person that just
says, okay, I believe in thisand I'll, I'll take a risk on it

(41:50):
and it's.
You know, I thank God I foundsomebody, because it's been
great and because I kind ofbuilt an online thing.
You know we go out.
You know, if I do enoughpromoting online, we get enough
people there to make itworthwhile for us to do.
You know, and a lot of them aredoor gigs.
You know we'll show up andwe'll do a door gig but we'll
get enough people out becausethe cover charge is enough where

(42:11):
we get people coming in, andthen I have a bunch of stuff to
sell it at the merch stand whichis really what it's all about
these days, you know.

Speaker 2 (42:23):
So it's it's just having all those different
spigots open.
I know, and you know I'm solazy too.
I mean, I I make my music and Ijust put it on CD, baby, and I
was kind of content with that,and now I don't even have that
because of the record deal.
So I'm, you know, and actuallyI don't know which way I lost my
eyesight in one eye.
Uh, blind man heinz.
He's had a new blues career.
I like that kind of gallowshumor, I like it.
Thank you, yeah, I have a lotof that too.

(42:45):
No, I lost it playing tennis.
I got a detached retina and, um, and I, like an idiot, didn't
go in immediately.
I kind of waited for a week andthat's, you're not supposed to
do that.
So the retina actually fell offand so I was like two and a
half years of surgeries withputting bubbles in my eyes and
they finally had to put a bucklearound one eye.
So I'm kind of blind in thiseye.
It all stays, you can probablysee it.

(43:06):
It stays more dilated than thisone.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it's always a lot blackerthan the other one and you know
, it's kind of one girl come upto me and says she said you have
david bowie eyes and I wasthinking this could work for me.
Yeah, um, no, it's weird, butanyways I'm back trying to play
tennis.
So actually the last year sinceI got out of the last surgery

(43:26):
I've been doing a lot ofsessions for people doing, uh,
you know, the geno stuff I do.
There's a few clients aroundthe united states keep me busy
teaching it on my, and I've beentrying to get my tennis game
back with one eye.
It's really not having anydepth perception or training
your brain to see uh, depthperception is really a trip, um,
but you know I'm not giving upyet, so that's that's why I
spend my days.
I'm getting ready as soon as weget off here.
I'm gonna go play some tennisand then I go to a gig tonight

(43:49):
where are you playing tonight?
um.

Speaker 1 (43:52):
It's a singer named keith england oh, yeah, he wrote
some songs with Greg Oman.

Speaker 2 (43:57):
Yeah, he worked with the Elm Brothers for a minute.
Yeah, yeah, it's more of a rockthing tonight, so I already
know all those songs likeMidnight Rider and stuff, so
we're going to do.
He has a little gig at somelittle winery place in Burbank,
a little wine restaurant, alittle bistro, so it's the same
place where I play with it.
I have a band called theCookies that I do with Bobby
Watson, the original bass playerfrom Rufus.
Okay, yeah.

(44:17):
He played bass on Nothing FromNothing, billy Preston.
So he played on Rock With youand he put all the old Rufus
stuff.
Bobby's a good friend of mine,great bass player.
I mean, don't ask him to readanything, but you know as far as
his groove goes and his time,his ideas, he's just great.
He's a great guy.
So we have a little band calledthe Cookies.
It's me and him and Max AnnLewis, this great singer who was
in iCat with Ike and TinaTurner years ago, and she's

(44:40):
awesome.
So we do our own weird coversof Beatles songs.
And just a trio, just me andBobby and a drummer's coming to
go.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
So what will you bring to that gig tonight?

Speaker 2 (44:54):
Well, I'm going to bring a small gig tonight.
Just two deluxes, two old, likeI have some blackface deluxes,
late 60s Nice, and just apedalboard and probably my SG
yes, the SG, because we're doinglike some Southern so I've got
to play some slides, you know.

Speaker 1 (45:12):
So you pack up the vehicle and rock people's brains
in Burbank.

Speaker 2 (45:15):
Yeah, we do that.
We play there with the Cookiesand we pack it up, though that
band is really fun the Cookies,if you get a chance.
You know it's a cover band, butwhen we do a trio it's like
it's me.
It's all about me being able tosubstitute and do weird chord
voicings, and it still works,you know.

Speaker 1 (45:31):
So how many times a week do you reckon you play
these days?
If so, how many times a week doyou?

Speaker 2 (45:34):
reckon you play these days, play out, oh, it depends.
You know, last week I playedthree gigs, this week I have
like one, and the next week Ihave none.
Then it gets busy again.
But I'm doing sessions.
Mostly I'm doing this BobbyCaldwell thing.
Okay, that's going to keep mebusy.
I do have a gig next week too,probably one on average.

Speaker 1 (45:51):
I don't know.
So do you record at your lairthere or do you go to studios?

Speaker 2 (45:56):
No, I record here, unless it's.
You know, it depends on if theywant the whole band involved.
But I have like a nice oldAvalon preamps and some nice
Norman mics and you know I knowhow to record them correctly.
So I do sessions for people,often up here my records.
I did mostly my guitar parts uphere.
We actually did.
We recorded the band at EastWest Studios and Joe Bonamassa

(46:18):
let me use his little combodumbbell amp down there and I
used that to track with the bandand we ended up keeping a lot
of the tracks actually from that.
But the solos I like to kind ofhone in.
I'm usually really good atgetting the good idea for a solo
first time through, but then ittakes me a few passes just to
tighten up all the edges andmake it work first time through,
but then it takes me a fewpasses just to tighten up all
the edges and make it.
Make it work.

(46:38):
You know, conceptually I'm goodat coming up with a solo quick,
but I'm not really good atexecuting that solo immediately.
Sometimes I have ideas that aregreater than my capacity.
How do I put that?
Basically, I'm not good enoughto do it like first time through
.
I usually have to kind of goback in and kind of, you know,
fix, fix it up, but, um, yeah,but you know, about once a week

(46:58):
maybe.
And then I was in Japan a coupleof weeks ago and that was
really great.
We were able to go there and,um, I played like five, six
shows Osaka, nagoya, tokyo,packed up the club in Tokyo, the
best venue in the world.
Um, like I said, I have afollowing over there.
So people and you probably knowthis feeling I mean, it's just
so life affirming to play to aclub of about even 300 people

(47:19):
and they're all there to hearyour music.
Yes, they know all your songsand you know it feels great and
the band was kick ass.
I have a great Travis Carlton,larry's son plays bass with me.
Donald Baird is my drummer Well, my drummer, I prefer him.
He plays with Lady Gaga nowthat's his money gig.
Matt Rohde is a keyboard playerwho has recently played with

(47:41):
the Chicks.
I guess he played with AlanisMorissette.
He does the Voice, the TV show.
He does all the arrangementsbackstage for all the singers
and stuff.
He's a whiz kid who sounds likeKeith Jarrett.
I met him on a Brenda Russellgig and I was warming up playing
an Alan Holdsworth like justwarming up and he knew it.
He started playing keyboards.
He knows more guitar stuff andhe has an album out of all Black

(48:02):
Sabbath songs or is it BlackSabbath or Deep Purple songs
that he did on keyboards?
So he's more of a.
He's a frustrated guitar playerin a keyboard player's suit,
you know.
So that's my yeah.
We play the baked potato onceevery two months usually.
They usually give us a Fridayor Saturday cause we pack it out
.

Speaker 1 (48:24):
Nice yeah.
So what's your kind of yourgoals for the immediate future?
You want to get out on the roadin the States a little bit more
.
In, in, in.
Uh.
Well, I'm working on mybackhand.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
No, I'm kidding.
Uh, I States a little bit more.
Well, I'm working on mybackhand.
Aha, no, I'm kidding, I have agood backhand.
That's a good question, becauseI kind of feel something's in
the air.
I don't know, is this apolitical election coming up?
A lot of different things aregoing on in my life.
I just ended a relationshipwith somebody who I'd been with
for a few years, you know, justkind of exploring some new

(48:58):
territory in a lot of differentways.
I mean, I've got a bunch of newideas for songs, but I'm kind
of waiting to see what happenswith the other CD, to see if we
can get it released, andconsidering to move back down
south.

Speaker 1 (49:07):
Yeah Well, the cost of living down south you can't
beat it.

Speaker 2 (49:12):
No, I know the price of gas.
I saw it when I was down there.
A few weeks ago I went downback to Destin, florida and
Auburn for my 50th high schoolreunion.
Wild yeah, I was like are youstill alive?
That was a question to ask alot You're still alive.

Speaker 1 (49:29):
Yeah, I just had my 40th.
So yeah, we're 10 years apart.

Speaker 2 (49:32):
We're 10 years apart, yeah, so I don't know, but it
probably.
I mean, I think my music, ifthe crowd, if they're open, we
usually kick ass wherever weplay.
I wish we had a chance.
But I'm a hard sell, like I'mnot.
You know, you can't put me inthe blues category with Josh

(49:53):
Smith or maybe even with you andsome stuff.
I'm not a rock guy like a RichieKotzen or you know, and not
really a.
I'm definitely not a jazzy guylike Scott Henderson or
Holdsworth and I'm definitelynot smooth jazz, for God's sake,
you know, cause my stuff's notthat insipid but it's.
You know, it's like I'm kind ofan, it's kind of a combination
of all that stuff, you know.
And so I think it's a kind of ahard sell for anybody to really
know where to put Alan Hines.

(50:13):
But I know my band is so goodwhenever we play anywhere, we
always rule the day because theycarry me, even if I'm having a
sucky day.
But you know you can find me,go to alanhinescom, you can
there's, or just YouTube me, andyou know I don't I'm really bad
about not taking stuff down onYouTube.
Scott Henderson is like he goesdown.

(50:33):
He takes stuff down all thetime because he doesn't want any
bad representation of himselfand I, on the other hand, I just
left everything up there.
So there's a lot of good withthe bad.

Speaker 1 (50:40):
Oh, I'm the same way.
Well, plus so much stuff goesup that you have no control over
people posting stuff Most ofthe stuff I have with the most
views on YouTube or on otherpeople's channels, but I figure
it is what it is.
You know what I mean, and plusthe average person, you know how
they listen to stuff versus howyou listen to stuff is
completely different.

(51:01):
I mean, there's stuff thethings I think are like well,
that was a throwaway thing andthat'll be the thing that people
think is the greatest thing,and you're like okay, Tell me
about that.

Speaker 2 (51:13):
Yes, that's exactly right, you never know.
So I try to take a bird's eyeview, I try to back up and go
okay, it's not so bad after all.
I mean, I definitely get toointrospective and picky about
stuff.
Man, I missed that one notethere and everybody goes what
what?
No, I thought that was supposedto be there, you know.

Speaker 1 (51:30):
Right, exactly.

Speaker 2 (51:33):
So anyway, yeah, who knows?
But I don't know I'm going tokeep plugging along, keep
playing.
I'm going to keep playingtennis and as many gigs.
I'm going to keep writing songs.
I feel like I've got about 10new ideas that I'm about to
start putting down and tracking,and so that'll be something new
that the record label won't own.

Speaker 1 (51:48):
Excellent.
Yeah Well, hopefully we cancross paths when we're out there
.
We're going to be at VeniceWest on the 21st of July.

Speaker 2 (51:58):
I have a gig on the 21st.
Yes, are you in town, though,before you're coming to that day
?

Speaker 1 (52:03):
Yeah, we're going to be around on the 19th and 20th
hanging out in Venice.

Speaker 2 (52:06):
Beach.
Well, call me on the 19th.
I have a gig on the 20th andthe 21st.

Speaker 1 (52:11):
Okay, I definitely will Do you know where you're
playing on the 20th or the 21st.

Speaker 2 (52:19):
The 20th is with a smooth jazz guy who keeps me
busy doing sessions Again,darren Ron, it's smooth jazz
saxophone stuff, just betweenyou and me.
And the 21st is with theCookies that band I was telling
you about, with Bobby Watson.
And probably Keith Englund willcome sing with us, because we
always you know, maxies, thatband I was telling you about
with Bobby Watson, oh, yeah,yeah, yeah.
And probably Keith England willcome sing with us, because we
always.
You know Max Anne, this girl Iplay with, she's steeped in R&B,

(52:41):
of course, because she sangwith everybody, from Duran Duran
to Michael Jackson.
Like I said, she was an IkeCantina, a big black girl.
She sings awesome and she'slike one of the band.
You know, she's just loves it.
When we just rock out and wegot keith england, I mean it
couldn't be more diametrically,you know, opposite keith england
, this like this kind of whiteguy with long hair up there

(53:01):
singing, you know crossroads,but it's great, it's great, you
know, um, it's a greatcombination.
So that's going to be on the21st at this club called urban
press in burbank.
It's a little winery, little,uh, wine restaurant excellent.

Speaker 1 (53:14):
Those are my two gigs this month.

Speaker 2 (53:15):
Yeah, I like it.
Yeah, well, find me.
I'll give me a call when you'rein town and maybe the 19th we
can hang out some.

Speaker 1 (53:22):
That'd be great.
It'd be great to.
I wish I could hear you playout here, yeah exactly so it
must be wild out there when youjust do like pickup gigs.
It's like you know, know allthese people that have played
with everybody, you know what Imean.
It's like where that's whereI'm from, there's great
musicians, but you know what Imean.
It's not like, but they don'thave.

Speaker 2 (53:42):
Well, it's like you know you know who mike miller is
yeah, I have the guitar player.

Speaker 1 (53:46):
I saw him play with chick korea back in the day very
understated, you know you.

Speaker 2 (53:49):
You can hear him on some recordings, go, oh, he's
okay, you know he's.
But then you hear him on someother things.
You go whoa, this guy, he'sreally.
He reminds me of Bill Frizzellin that he doesn't ever try to
really show off, but he hasimmense capabilities and really
melodic and really creative soulon guitar.
I mean, when you get him in hiselement he's really great.
But he called me up a fewmonths ago.
He called me and says Alan,look, I have a gig tonight, can

(54:21):
you sub for me?
And it was his gig, I think.
But the players in the band wereChad Wackerman, jimmy Johnson,
mitch Foreman.
I mean the band was like thisall-star of these great players
in Los Angeles.
And I was going man, I'll do itif I don't have to read
anything.
As long as we do all blues forlike a half an hour, I'm fine.
And it turns out he hadn'tplayed in a a while.
He didn't feel like getting outin front of public and playing.
He actually ended up doinggoing back and doing it.

(54:41):
But, um, yeah, things like thathappen.
All of a sudden you're likelooking for on the other side of
the stage and there's dannycarey or there's uh, you know
some great keyboard player oryou know there's yeah, there's
great players everywhere, andluckily that's.
One perk of living out here forso long is that I've had a
chance to play with the verybest Gary Novak on drums, or
Jimmy Johnson, or all these guys.

(55:03):
Jeff Babko on keys is awesome,matt Rohde is incredible, travis
Carlton is really my favoritebass player.
Have you ever met or worked?

Speaker 1 (55:14):
with Travis.
I've met him, but I've notplayed with him.

Speaker 2 (55:16):
He's an old soul, I mean he's a young kid, but he
knows everything about therhythm sections from
Philadelphia and Detroit.
He knows all the you know.
He's steeped in music history,Nice, and he's a great kid.
I mean he's come to my opencounseling at MI, my big
workshop forum, that thing there, and I didn't know he was
Larry's son At the time.
He just came in and played andhe was always just the most

(55:38):
musical guy there was there.
He just had great time, greatideas.
We were always good friends.
But yeah, that's a good perkabout living in Los Angeles for
sure, nice, yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:49):
Awesome.
So how often are you at MI?

Speaker 2 (55:53):
Well, because of what I did.
I was kind of a special.
I was kind of faculty visiting,visiting faculty for the last
20 years because I was on theroad and I'll just kind of come
in and do a thing called theycalled open counseling, which is
just a big open up the doorsand students come in and ask me
whenever their schedule permits.
So when covid hit, that was thelast thing to come back,
because it was really not a coreessential class of any sort, it

(56:15):
was just kind of a perk andthey just started having that
back last year.
So I got you know what used tobe like two days of that a week.
Uh, it turned out to be liketwo hours a week.
So now it's getting back moreand um, now they're actually
doing an alan hines ensembleclass where they're doing some
of my songs and I bring incharts and we rehearse.
The guys and most, most of thekids right now are Asian,
because they did a lot of theirmarketing to the Asian market

(56:38):
the last several years.
So majority of kids are from,you know, korea or China.
Great kids, they're totallycool and into it and it's cool
to see their eyes light up whenyou turn them on to a.
It's like a Freddie King songthat they've never heard.
Right, turn them on to a um,it's like a freddie king song
that they've never heard, right,or they, or they think that
this one song is done by somesong, and no, you know, joni

(57:01):
mitchell wrote that back in like1969, or whatever.
You know, right, right, can Igo really, and then you know, or
just to tell them that I knewjeff buckley.
They kind of freak out.
You know, jeff buckley is likea legend to those kids.

Speaker 1 (57:10):
Now right, yeah he was.

Speaker 2 (57:12):
uh, he would have been so great had he lived, of
course, but yeah, so I'm therenow like one full day a week,
which is just fine with me.
One full day is enough.

Speaker 1 (57:22):
Do you do much private teaching, like online or
in person or anything like that?

Speaker 2 (57:26):
During COVID.
I made more money that yearthan ever in my life.
I was doing like five or sixlessons a day, got it.
And I also had a class withJohn Harrington, the guitar
player for Steely Dan Okay, yeahday.
And I also had a class withJohn Harrington, the guitar
player for.
Steely Dan okay yeah, he's agood, he's a good friend of mine
and we had a Harrington Hinesworkshop.
We did, and we would chargepeople money.
They would, we would sendbacking tracks to them.
We just made it really quick,two minutes, and they would solo

(57:47):
on it and send it back to usand we would, we would, we would
critique them in a in a in azoom thing for a couple hours
every month.
And we had guests.
We had guest artists.
We had Robin Ford and ScottHenderson and Frank Gambale and
who else?
Lyle Workman, I think, did itone time and different people,
you know, were just friends,because Luca there lives right

(58:07):
down the street from me.
Actually, I have an idea for aBonamassa thing, I'm animasa
thing.
I'm going to try to get him todo this.
I I'm getting ready to startdoing some videos again and I
want to be there talking aboutwhatever I'm going to be talking
about.
And then I want joe to walk upwith a cup of coffee behind me,
says here, mr irons, here's yourcoffee.
Thanks, joe.
Joe, I told you two lumps ofsugar, you know.
Whatever.
Just to do a cameo.
I think would be hilarious, youknow, just to have him walk

(58:28):
through and not even introducehim at all, you know anyway, but
no, I did yeah I do.
You know it comes and goes.
If I don't advertise oninstagram or something, I do an
average of three or four lessonsa week.
Sure, you know, but if I and Iput the word out there I just
want to get a little more workthat week I'll beef it up, but
it's a twice that or so.
But you know it's definitelycalmed down since covid is over.

Speaker 1 (58:49):
Yeah, I kind of go through my phases where it's
I've taken them off my websitefor now because I just I'm
traveling too much and it's hardto arrange them all you know
timing wise, like, oh well, thisperson's in England I got to
figure out when I'm availableand they're available, and of
course I could be more organizedand have some kind of a you
know scheduling thing on mywebsite, but I don't, so I just

(59:12):
kind of get a hold of them, saidhey, when are you available?
and that's, and so often you getwith these guys and it's like
it's like counseling instead ofplaying, and I'm fine with
whatever, but it just sometimes.

Speaker 2 (59:21):
Yeah, it's true sometimes, and there's you have
the other side of the spectrumtoo, where I have one kid in uh
alabama who's actually korean,who's adopted by this french guy
who married a southern girl andhe's korean, this old korean
kid.
He's 12 years old and he hasthis weird I can't remember the
name of it, but it's a weird umsensory, some kind of disease,

(59:45):
where if he concentrates toomuch on the visual then he won't
be able to hear, or too much onthe like.
They said they put him to aswimming pool one time.
He couldn't figure out how to,how to swim because he couldn't
paddle his feet, but once theyput flippers on his feet he
could feel them.
So he had he could that.
That triggered the feeling.
Where you do it same way withguitar.
He has a real hard time keepinganything in time because he

(01:00:06):
can't feel the beat.
You know he's got this weird.
There's a certain name for itand it's a learning disability.
But he's the coolest kid.
He works his butt off and everymonth, every week, he writes me
this big long.
Here's what I work on for thisweek, alan, and he's really
great.
He's coming along, he's gettingreally good, he's learning.
I mean, he's learning all thisstuff that I never thought.
He's 12, he's gonna be great.
I just hope he keeps it love.

(01:00:26):
You know, a lot of kids, youknow, give it up after you know
that is they.
It's like I've seen like tenniskids too.
They go.
He's the next rafael nadal andsix months later he goes.
I hate tennis, you know.
I hope it's like a beautypageant moms you press their
kids to go, but, um, hopefullyhe won't turn into that.
But so far, yeah, he's theother side of the spectrum,
who's just so into it.
He writes, he's like, and helistens to everything and he

(01:00:47):
gets it.
Um, yeah, there's all.
And I gave a lesson to a guytoday in spain who was, you know
, he's like an older guy who youknow, you know, is having
trouble.
You know, playing a complete Cscale, you know, all the way
through.
So you get all sorts of alllevels, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:01:03):
Yeah, no doubt about it, Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
It's a trip.
It becomes like.
It becomes like psychology,doesn't it?
I mean, you cause you a lot ofhim, you're.
I can kind of see when they'rekind of insecure and they're
making excuses or or they havelike some other kind of other,
some other other thing happeningin their life and I it's uh.
It turns into more than just alesson about uh modes or right,
yeah, it's, it's an interestinguh.

Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
I was talking with uh did this guitar camp last
summer and, um, and I sharedthis house and Eric Johnson was
in there and we're.
You know, I've known Eric for awhile and he's always nice as
pie and and I sat in on his uhworkshop and these people were
asking, you know, they wereasking various different
questions but I I was like, youknow, eric, if I was, if I was

(01:01:54):
in a lesson with you orsomething like that, I would
know exactly.
Hey, you know, you do thesereally cool chord voicings.
Give me like four chordvoicings you do over an A minor
7.
You know what I mean?
Or something like that.
I would just have questionsprepared.
You know what I mean Of stuffthat, hey, this is something I
can tangibly take from thisperson that interests me and I
just find it so amazing that 99%of the people that take lessons

(01:02:17):
don't have that mentality.
I mean not that I'm judging,but I guess I kind of am.

Speaker 2 (01:02:21):
No, it's true.
I know I know, like someteachers who I know who are
probably better teachers at alow, well, at a level, they have
like a worked out schedule ofthings they want the students to
do every week.

Speaker 1 (01:02:33):
Sure, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:02:34):
You got to practice this in this position all the
way up and down in quarter notes.
End of story.
You know, do it Right.
Well, I tend to be a littlemore on the spacey edge myself.
I mean I tend because a lot ofmy concepts are they're geared
towards guys who already kind ofknow that stuff.
And I try to, I try to, I tryto get them thinking outside the
box.
That's the box, that's theproblem.

(01:02:57):
The comment I get from most ofmy students are like I paint
myself into a box, I'm stuck, Idon't know where to go.
So, you know, I have all theseexercises on how to, like,
improve your visual.
They say you know visualizingthe fretboard, uh, and learning
the scales and thinkingintervals, and, uh, I don't know
.
I think you know it's, it comesdown.
There's so many videos ofpeople teaching the basic stuff.
Right, I sometimes wonder whythey would even come and you

(01:03:17):
know ask.
You know how do you hold yourpick?

Speaker 1 (01:03:20):
you know right exactly, so it kind of becomes
psychology.

Speaker 2 (01:03:24):
You know, you've got to get into their heads a little
more um, and I love it whenthey get it or when something's
sparked.
You can see.
You can see the light bulb goon, all of a sudden.

Speaker 1 (01:03:33):
yeah, when someone really gets it, it's awesome and
and they're like oh my God,that was a revelation and ever
since then you know that's thebest Speaking of stupid
questions.

Speaker 2 (01:03:41):
There's the last videotape of Jaco Pastorius at
Musicians Institute.
He's doing a clinic in 1985when I was a student there, and
you can hear me stand up and askhim a question.
It's my you can't see me, butyou can hear my voice.
And I said and Jaco, he'stalking, and people were asking
stupid questions, you know.
So I stood up and went Jaco, ofall the great things you've
done, what are your favoritetracks?

(01:04:02):
What are your favorite memoriesof sessions?
And he goes, he gets reallyquiet and goes.

Speaker 1 (01:04:08):
What do you mean?
And?

Speaker 2 (01:04:08):
I knew I was kind of in trouble right when he said
that I was like uh-oh, again hegoes.
I said, well, I mean JoniMitchell Weather Report, you
know, matheny.
I said, were there, what didanything?
He goes, look he goes.
I've got four kids and I lovethem all the same.

Speaker 1 (01:04:22):
Ah, there you go.

Speaker 2 (01:04:24):
So I was like okay, I'll just sit back down with my
tail between my legs.
Thank you very much.

Speaker 1 (01:04:35):
Well, listen, my friend, it's been so awesome
talking with you.
I'm glad we had an opportunityto find to have a chat
face-to-face and hopefully whenI'm out there in California we
can actually be literally in thesame room so we can shoot the
shit.

Speaker 2 (01:04:50):
Yes, I'm looking forward to it.
The 19th I'll be here, so ifyou have time I know you'll be
busy If you get time, shoot me atext and I'll run over to
Venice the 19th I'll be here.
So if you have time, I knowyou'll be busy, but if you get
time, shoot me a text and we'llum, I'll run over to Venice.

Speaker 1 (01:04:59):
That'd be awesome.
It'd be great to see you.
Thanks so much, greg.
Thank you, have a good one,take it easy.
Thank you so much, folks, fortuning in.
Special Thank you to Wildwoodguitars of Louisville, colorado,
and the mighty FishmanTransducers for making this
podcast possible.

(01:05:20):
If you enjoyed yourself, ladiesand gentlemen, please subscribe
and review so that people canget the word out that this is
worth experiencing.
Can you dig it?
Thanks again.
We'll see you soon or you'llhear me soon.