Buddy Whittington

What happens when a passion for blues guitar, a serendipitous encounter, and a love for cold pizza collide? You get the legendary Buddy Whittington! Join us for an unforgettable conversation with the Texas blues guitar powerhouse and former member of John Mayall's Blues Breakers. Buddy shares the incredible story of how he landed a 15-year gig with the Blues Breakers, his unique morning rituals, and his humorous attempts to stay healthy. We also dive into his admiration for guitar legends like Clapton, Peter Green, and Mick Taylor, making this chat a treasure trove for blues enthusiasts.

But that's not all. This episode is packed with updates on our musical journey, from our thrilling experience opening for ZZ Top to the bittersweet retirement of our 90-year-old bandmate. Discover the behind-the-scenes stories of our home studio setup during COVID and the amusing family dynamics of music practice. Plus, get an inside look at my daughter Isla's budding music career and our collaboration on her new record, providing a glimpse into our family's musical adventures.

For the gearheads, we’ve got an in-depth chat about vintage guitars and amps, featuring the wisdom of Dr. Z and the importance of guitar maintenance. Hear about our favorite axes, the evolving music industry, and the modern musician's toolkit. We also celebrate the legacy of ZZ Top, delve into memories of legendary Blues Breakers guitarist hangouts, and explore the practicalities of touring with backline equipment. From the camaraderie of iconic musicians to the challenges of balancing family and career, this episode has something for everyone. Don't miss it!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Lo and behold, ladies and gentlemen, season five of
Chewing the Gristle is upon us.
It's been a little while, folks, but it's going to be worth the
wait.
We're going to be featuring alot of convivial conversations
with various musical potentates,most of which you've heard of.
Some are going to be some newdiscoveries.
That's why I'm here to bringforth the chewable gristle

(00:29):
matter to you via theInformation Superhighway,
brought to you, of course, byour friends at Wildwood Guitars
in beautiful Louisville,colorado, and our friends at
Fishman Transducers of beautifulAndover, massachusetts.
Both I've had greatlongstanding relationships with,
and continue to do so, andwe're very grateful for their
continued support in thisendeavor of giving you the

(00:51):
highest quality and chewablegristle possible.
Now, without any further ado,folks, let's get down and dirty
with some Chewing the GristleSeason 5.
Buckle up, buckle up.
This week, on Chewing theGristle, we are joined by the
majestic and powerful BuddyWhittington, texas blues guitar

(01:14):
potentate, member of John Mayles, blues Breakers for about 15
years.
Just a heck of a nice guy,great singer, guitar player,
songwriter and cat.
Let's chew that gristle withBuddy Whittington.
Ladies and gentlemen, boys andgirls, we gather around the

(01:37):
gristle fire once again foranother edition of Chewing the
Gristle.
And today we have one of myfavorites, hailing from the
mighty state of Texas, texas,former axe slinger for John
Mayles, blues Breakers but, uh,trailblazer in his own right,
leading bands causing trouble,the mighty buddy, whittington
buddy, how the heck are youdoing?

(01:58):
Pretty good, greg.
You doing all right, I'm doingall right.
I can't complain.
I've been bummed.
I've been missing you the lastcouple of years.
I've been down in Dallas at theguitar show and we haven't
crossed paths.

Speaker 2 (02:08):
I was out of there so fast this last time.
I mean, we had had a bunch ofstuff going on and we played at
our usual 11 o'clock in themorning on Sunday, kind of thing
, and man, we played and Ididn't even get to look around
the show, you know.
But I'll catch you somewhere.

Speaker 1 (02:24):
Now how you been doing.
What's the latest?

Speaker 2 (02:26):
Oh, not a lot Just doing local gigs mostly and
trying to stay with it.

Speaker 1 (02:32):
Yes, Well, that never ends Uh-huh.
Now have you been enjoying justplaying lately?
I mean, are you still asenthused about the actual guitar
and playing?

Speaker 2 (02:43):
Oh sure, yeah, always enthused about the actual
guitar and playing, as always.
But I mean, I'm not playing somuch that I'm in really good
playing shape.
You know what I mean.
I got you, uh, you know what Imean when you get out and you do
it every night and then you'rein the, in the mix and on the
road and everything and jumpingup every night and playing.
I'm probably not to that that,but yeah, I'm still very

(03:05):
interested in it.

Speaker 1 (03:07):
Yeah.
So, you know, it's one of thosethings where it never gets old
to me.
I mean, it's like I wake up inthe morning and I make a little
coffee and today was my extrafavorite day, buddy, because
it's cold pizza and coffeemorning.
Right, and I sit down and Igrab my guitar and just start
playing a little bit.
Sip a little java, eat a littlecoffee.

(03:27):
What could be better than that?

Speaker 2 (03:29):
A cold pizza the next day is equally good than in the
morning, when it was warm.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
Exactly Something about it.
I don't know what it's adelight.
I don't know if it's that goodfor you, but you know what.
Life is short.
Eat cold pizza is my motto.

Speaker 2 (03:46):
Oh, that's right.
I've got a doctor's appointmentThursday and a blood work, so
I'm having to really watch itthis week.
I'm, you know, not not justthis week, but I I've been
trying to get it back and get my.
My A1C is higher than my IQ.
You know what I mean?
I gotcha, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm trying to knock all thatdown.

Speaker 1 (04:06):
Yeah, that's fun, isn't it?
Good, clean, fun.
Well, let's talk a little bitabout your past and all that
kind of stuff.
Obviously, you were in theBlues Breakers for many years,
but from what I understand, it'slike you did a gig opening for
the Coco Montoya era.

(04:27):
Blues Breakers, that's right.
And is that when John heard youplay and you kept in touch
after that?

Speaker 2 (04:34):
That's right.
Did you ever play at DallasAlley?

Speaker 1 (04:37):
I never have no.

Speaker 2 (04:38):
At the West End Marketplace.
It's been gone for years nowbut that's where we met.
We knew a guy Jerry Thompsonwas the guy that used to book us
in there and he had John andthe Coco version of the band
playing there and he stuck.
We had a band called theSidemen and they stuck us in
there to open for them and I methim that night and it was a

(04:59):
couple of years before we everactually got moving on it.
But he said I'm planning comingup, coco is actually got moving
on it.
But he said I'm I'm planningcoming up, coco is thinking
about moving on and I'm gonnahave to have somebody to jump in
the band and maybe we can talkabout that.
Maybe have you out to record alittle bit.
I'm going okay, yeah, I coulddo that, but it was a.

(05:21):
It was a great 15 years, youknow, went, went by like a shot,
you know.

Speaker 1 (05:26):
Yeah, they were glorious years.
Now I'm sure you were, as manyof us of a certain age were just
lovers of the old BluesBreakers with Clapton and then
with Peter Green and then withMick Taylor.
So were you.
I mean it must have just been agasp that just talking to him
and just mentioning it that itmight be a possibility.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
And that worked, actually happened.
I did get to hang around withall those guys a little bit and
I did some shows that Greeny wason and we never did actually
play together, but we did.
You know, we played the sameshow when he had the splinter
group going.

Speaker 1 (06:02):
Right, I remember that, yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:04):
And Mick showed up and played with us fairly often
and we did the thing the 70thbirthday uh deal that clapped
and mick were both on and uhgreat days.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
Yes, indeed, absolutely so.
When you started playing, it'skind of interesting because you
were you, you kind of had asimilar experience.
I was exposed to all the musicI got into as a result of my
older siblings my, my olderbrother specifically.
But you know, my sister, um, myoldest sister had some cool
taste in music and she hadvarious different records and so

(06:37):
on and so forth and and thatkind of cued me into music that
maybe I wouldn't have been intohad I just been hanging out with
my other friends who wereperhaps the oldest in their
family and they were justexposed to whatever you know
music of the day.
So was that kind of one ofthose things.
You started listening to theseyou know stuff that you got into
for your sister's recordcollection and then you read

(06:59):
into like well, who did theStones listen to and who did
Cream listen to?
And then they got you into theblues stuff.
Or was that also kind of at thesame time where you heard you?

Speaker 2 (07:08):
know it took a while to work my way back and I'm
actually still doing it, youknow.
But just her, like you say, herrecords.
And then my parents wereWestern Swing fans oh cool, and
you know Bob Wills had theCrystal Springs Club here and
they used to go see him backthen years ago and they were.

(07:31):
We had some local TV shows,country western TV shows Big D
Jamboree and Cowtown Jamboree,one in Fort Worth and one in
Dallas, and I used to watch thatwith my dad.
It came on like 5 o'clock inthe afternoon on Saturday and he
would sit there until 10 whenit was all over with before he
went to bed.
I would mainly just watch thatjust to see who had a 335 or a

(07:57):
Tele or a Strat and a SuperReverb and a Tron or whatever.
I was way sucked into all thatstuff a long time ago.

Speaker 1 (08:06):
So who in the dallas area would you go and see?
I mean was, was freddie kingplaying around at that point in
time?

Speaker 2 (08:13):
yeah, yeah, you know I didn't get to see freddie
quite a bit and even talk to hima little bit.
I was nervous to talk to himbut uh, there was a club called
mother blues in dallas.
That was kind of his hangoutwhen he was home and he would be
him and Bugs Henderson would besitting in, you know, and John
Nitzinger was playing over therea lot and I've got a photo of

(08:35):
Freddie playing John's 335, youknow, when he jumped up there to
play with him one time I sawlet's see who was it I think it
was Rusty Weir, blood Sweat andTears, blue Oyster Cult and
Freddie on the same show, wow,on the steps of the Cotton Bowl.
One time they used to just pickguys up that were close by and

(08:55):
say, hey, come play over here.
You know, wild, yeah, crazy.

Speaker 1 (09:00):
Now, when you go see Freddie King and he had that
quad reverb was it just loud ashell.

Speaker 2 (09:06):
It was pretty loud.
It had 412 JBLs in it, you know, oh good God, and they were all
Showco Jack Halmees' companythat managed and booked those
guys.
Right, they went and bought abunch of quads factory quads and
then built them up and madethem extra stout, you know, and
put them into a fiberglass caseso they couldn't put wheels on

(09:28):
it and stuff, you know.
And yeah, they were, they were,they were pretty, pretty snappy
to go see them and Bugs andNitzinger had the same, the same
thing I was trying to run downone time we opened for Albert
Collins at a little club inArlington over here and I was
trying to run down a quad forhim because he wasn't in his bus

(09:49):
.
You know, right, I didn't havean example with him.
I wound up, I came up with acouple of twins and one of them
worked and one of them quit workand he was back there kicking
it and bouncing around.
I was like looking for a placeto dive under a table.
So you know, it wouldn't bethat we finally got through it.
But yeah, man, those were someheady days back there seeing

(10:09):
those guys.

Speaker 1 (10:11):
Yeah, and Albert used one of those quad reverbs too.
Now did he use one with JBLs aswell that you know of, or not?

Speaker 2 (10:17):
I don't seem to remember him having JBLs in it,
but I do remember him.
He just comes up and spinseverything on 10 and turn the
base down.
You know everything else allthe way up.

Speaker 1 (10:29):
Oh my, I can't even imagine.
You know that's.
That's one of my big regrets islike he's one of the only guys
of that ilk that I well.
I didn't see Freddie cause youknow he died early on.
But you know I could have seenAlbert Collins, but but it just
never happened.
And that was the my, one of mymain regrets.
I never saw him live, but I was.

Speaker 2 (10:50):
I was just wondering how loud that must've been.
Pretty loud, I mean, as loud asyou would think it would have
been.
You know what I mean.
And uh, I only saw Albert acouple of times, but you know,
coco Montoya used to play drumsin Albert's band.
That's so wild it is crazy, youknow.
And then learned a lot from himand he kind of got him started
on the guitar trail, you know.
And all those guys in LA thatwere in John's band, they were

(11:14):
all old friends of his, you know.
And Joe Ueli, our drummer, hadplayed with him quite a bit, you
know.
But I was aware of his work andstuff, but uh, not as much as I
was, you know, like havingFreddy right here in town, you
know right exactly.
Albert was from Houston, whichis not two, three hours down
there, like four hours, but Ididn't get to see him as much as

(11:37):
I did Freddy and he moved outto Vegas or LA right.

Speaker 1 (11:42):
Albert was living out there for quite some time.
You know, I don't know.
Okay, interesting, yeah, causeI remember my uh Rick Vito was
telling me that he'd do gigswith Albert and he goes.
I can't tell you how many timesI've I've carried that quad
reverb upstairs.
I thought, well, you knowexercise, you got to get it in

(12:03):
any way that you can.

Speaker 2 (12:06):
At eight o'clock in the morning, after you played
all night.

Speaker 1 (12:09):
Oh, good Lord, almighty.
So when you were playing with,with male, what was a typical
year like for you?
How many, how many days youordered?
It fluctuate.

Speaker 2 (12:19):
Well, it would fluctuate.
We, like I said, we tried ourbest to do a hundred dates
anyway.
He wouldn't do much more thanthat, got it.
And he would get to the pointwhere I wouldn't be talking to
Joe on the phone about thedrummer talking about man.
We got to, we got to see we canget some more work going here,
you know.
So Joe would call JohnGabriziak who was the guy that

(12:42):
was booking us at MontereyInternational.
I go, man, please talk to Johnso you can get into books and
dates, because John had youngkids at the time.
You know, like we were on anopening for ZZ Top which was for
me.
That was it.
You know what I mean.
I could have, you know, I couldhave just went to work at
Payless after that was over,with work at Payless after that

(13:03):
was over.
But anyway, the ZZ guys wereasking us if we wanted to.
They wanted us to go to Sturgisand play the big thing at
Sturgis and meet us in Europethis fall and we'll continue the
tour and we're going, please.
You know.
Well, take my son camping, youknow we're all going.
Oh man, come on.

(13:24):
Anyway, we would try our bestto get as many dates out of him
as we could.
You know, I mean he he was hehe pretty much considered as
part-time employees but but Imean we did between 80 and a
hundred days most, most years.

Speaker 1 (13:40):
Wild, yeah.
And then figure that you know,male was oldish then, and now I
mean he just retired.

Speaker 2 (13:48):
He was 60 when I met him.
I went flew out to Burbank andmet him and his son, zach, at
the airport.
He was 60 that day and or notnot his birthday, but I mean
that's when he was 60.
And then now he's 90 years old.

Speaker 1 (14:01):
That's so crazy.

Speaker 2 (14:02):
And he's still like I say, I don't get to talk to him
very much.
We text a little bit, sendpictures back and forth and
stuff, but he seems like he'sdoing it.

Speaker 1 (14:13):
That's so wild.
I met his nephew, who's like asax player, yeah, lee.
Yeah, yeah, I met him.
We were doing a gig somewherein Germany and he was playing
with this guy that used to be inchicken shack I'm trying to
think of his last the other guy.
It wasn't Stan Webb, it was boy.

(14:36):
He has a kind of weird firstname.
Anyway, they just happened tobe staying at the same hotel so
we ended up, you know, hangingout for quite a few hours and we
got back from our uh differentgigs and and Lee was saying he's
like, yeah, you know, uh, john,he goes.
He's like I'm not going toretire until I've saved enough
money.
And and he was saying and hewas inferring to that John was a

(15:00):
very thrifty soul as it was,and was probably doing just fine
and could have retired a longtime ago.

Speaker 2 (15:07):
Yeah, he took care of us.
I mean people say that abouthim, but I mean he was always
took good care of us, sure, andhe would, he would.
I have stories I could tell.
I don't know if I should or not, but I mean as far as, as far
as being thrifty, and I mean youknow he would like do things
like we had pizzas on the on therider pizzas and four

(15:29):
rotisserie chickens every nightDelicious.
You know, he had a thing wherehe had an old avocado, green 70s
looking electric coffee pot anda couple of hot water bottles
and a couple of hot waterbottles and he would boil water
in a coffee pot and fill them up, plug them, and then he would

(15:52):
take some pizza that he had leftover from the night before and
put between these hot waterbottles and then put both of
them between the mattress andthe box springs and then go do
the gig and we'd be on the wayback.
He goes.
My pizza should be getting hotabout now.
You're just making me jealousof all those cool guitars and
amps you got back there.

Speaker 1 (16:10):
Well, this is my room that I finally moved into.
There we go.
I moved back, I moved into thisroom.
This is a room over our.
We rebuilt a garage and put aroom over it, because during
COVID and I was doing all thelive streams in the house, my
wife, uh, was like listen, you,you need to get this shit out of
the house.
And so, yeah, so we wentthrough quite an ordeal to get

(16:34):
this place built, but now it'sit's all said and done and I
gotta say it's awesome so I cancome out here that's pretty
solid man looking good backthere yeah, I got a few little
morsels and then you know,during when we do the live
streams, dylan sets up over here, the drums and the bass is over
here, and we got rooms forguitars over here and over here.
So I got everything.
Everything's pretty much out ofthe house.

(16:56):
I might have a couple things inthere that I like to have my
hands on, but anytime I startnoodling on the guitar, my wife
gives me that look like if onlythere was a place you could go.

Speaker 2 (17:12):
You could do this from now on.
And then, 30 years ago, I wasturn down.

Speaker 1 (17:16):
Dad, oh yeah, absolutely.
Well.
What's funny now is that mydaughter Isla, who just moved
back home.
She graduated from college andhad a job up in Minneapolis and
she moved back home.
She's got a different job.
Now she might go to graduateschool, but she's been writing
songs and playing guitar andwe're working on a record for
her and she's going out anddoing some open mics and stuff,
getting her chops together andshe likes to noodle now.

(17:39):
So now she'll be sitting aroundthe house noodling and my wife
will look over and go sittingaround the house noodling and my
wife will look over and goescan you stop doing that?
And my wife was bugging theshit out of her for a long time,
like you need to play guitarmore, you need to play guitar
more.
And she's like you wanted me toplay it.
Now you I was like yes, nowyou're a fellow noodler, my dear
.
So anyway, it's kind of funny.
So yeah, we're going to get herout doing some gigs.

(18:03):
But that surprised me.
About a year ago or so, mydaughter Isla posted some stuff
online.
I showed her a couple of chordson a guitar and when she was
moving from one college haunt tothe next, I let her have this
nylon string guitar to use and Iwas sitting in the corner and I

(18:25):
picked it up and I played achord and the guitar wasn't
perfectly in tune.
I thought interesting.
And then all of a sudden,randomly, she put up a video
online of her singing andplaying the song and I was like
what is this?
She's like oh, I wrote that andso she's got all these, you
know little pop tunes that she'sbeen writing and cool chord
progression.

Speaker 2 (18:41):
Apple, don't fall too far from the tree man.

Speaker 1 (18:44):
It's crazy, Crazy stuff.
So we'll see what happens there.
That's just kind of fun.
So she's at home causingtrouble and of course my son's
playing in the band with me.
My youngest is actually joiningthe Air Force and he's going to
be going down to Texas.
Actually, his basic is going tobe in San Antonio and then his

(19:08):
training for the job that he'sgoing to do is right outside of
Dallas.
So he'll be a Texan for aperiod of time anyway.
Good for him.
That's great.
It's crazy.
Now, what about your kids?
How many kids you've got?

Speaker 2 (19:18):
We have two.
I have one that's 33 and onethat's 30.
Oh nice, one of them, he worksfor Honda.
And then my daughter, she hasan arts leadership master's Nice
, and she had a pretty good jobwith a lady that she was like

(19:39):
the lady that got the nonprofitthing going and when she decided
to retire, the whole structureof the business changed and my
daughter wound up losing her job.
But she's looking for anotherone right now in the same area.
You know, oh nice.
You know trying to get back in.
I mean, you know she's.
She went to work in a flowershop for a couple of days just

(20:01):
doing whatever, absolutelyLooking for the.
You know for the for a good ofdays just doing whatever.
Absolutely looking for the.
You know for the for a goodreplacement job absolutely.
In this day and age, you got todo what you got to do by jimmy
I'm telling you, and my wife'sstill working, you know she's,
she's a patient representativefor an oncologist and uh, she,
she does that eight hours a day.

(20:22):
And then, like I say, I'mplaying as much as I can and
actually been playing quite abit just locally stuff, cool,
just trying to stay with it.

Speaker 1 (20:30):
Yes, you know I was going to ask you when you got
asked to be in Males Band, didyou feel any pressure or sense
of I don't know historicalreference to think I should
really play a Les Paul through alittle Marshall?
Or do you just say no, I'mgoing to do my thing and that's

(20:50):
what he wants me to do anyway.
So was there any of that?
Like, well, maybe some parts ofthe night I'll put on that, you
know, get that classic thing.

Speaker 2 (20:58):
Yeah, well, I always thought about it.
I mean, I've got an old BlackBeauty custom that I've had
since 1977.
I gave $400 for it.
You know, right, it's a 69, Ithink, and I mean I've had that
one forever.
It's a hammer.
It's not a great one.
You know what I mean, right,and I've never owned a Les Paul
Standard and I always wanted toget one and I thought, man,

(21:20):
everybody's had one of these butme.
So let's just leave it there.
I've been playing my 335 alittle bit and I did play
through a marshall, for I stillgot a couple of marshals.
You know, I've been doing thething with dr z for so long and
he's been taking care of me,help me out, and we've become
great friends, you know.
So I try to help him as much asI can.
Yeah, those are great amps.
I do.

(21:41):
I've got several that I usequite a bit.
You know, almost all, almostall the time, and once in a
while I'll crank one of the old50 watts up.
But they both need work now.
You know what I mean, right,they just sit around and the old
electrolytics dry up in them.
You know, right, you don't wantto burn them up, transformers,
by trying them without gettingeverything replaced, you know.

Speaker 1 (22:04):
Exactly so of the Dr, dr z ones you use.
Are they more like like ac30sor well?

Speaker 2 (22:10):
not really like an ac30.
They are, uh, el84 based, youknow, and you know they do have
that sort of bright, high-endchime kind of thing going on
right.
Bass, junior, mass, senior, 18watts of 38.
I've used both of those a lot,uh, and I've got one now, that's
it's.
It's called a z lux that I playquite a bit.

(22:31):
It's.
It's got two driven tremolo anda real nice spring reverb and
it's switchable 20 or 40 watts,which is good, and uh, he's got
a.
Uh, I mean you remember theearly boogies where they had the
eq bypass thing where, yeah,just it's got a.
You remember the early boogieswhere they had the EQ bypass
thing where you just it's gotthat sort of thing.
It works better with ahumbucker guitar for me than it

(22:52):
does with a single coil.
But I use that when I can getaway with it because I mean you
hit the button and it's likeyou've got a pot on the foot
switch where you can govern howloud it is.
But it's not like it.
It gives you any more gain oranything, it's just the volume
of what's coming out.
You know it's gotta be theright room or.

(23:14):
Next thing, you knoweverybody's on your case about
playing too loud.

Speaker 1 (23:19):
You wouldn't know anything about that.
No, no, of course not.
I'm never, never getting volumecomplaints.
So are you still playing theLentz guitars?
Those are some awesome.

Speaker 2 (23:33):
I do.
I've got I have a Strat that afriend of mine named John Clardy
gave me a body, a 50s Stratbody that he that his father had
passed and he was having toclear a building out real quick.
And he called me up and goesman, I got some stuff over here.
If you want it, come get it.
You know, and he gave me thisold strap body that was painted

(23:54):
like a camouflage thing and it'sa pretty heavy body.
I didn't realize how heavy itwas until I sent it out to Scott
.
I said man, I'd love to havethis in Sherwood green with a
matching headstock.
Scott says I got red and black.
Which one do you want?
So he sends me the red one backand I've been playing it.
Plus, I've been playing the HSLwith the P90.

(24:18):
Actually he calls it the L9.
That's his take on it and thena Tele lead pickup.
I've been playing that one alittle bit and I've got one
that's he calls a b caster.
That's pretty much his bodystyle, with just a telly setup,
you know, and I had my old 63strat I still play it quite a
bit.
Yeah, it's pretty beat, it's.

(24:39):
It's really.
I need another new neck on it.
But I kind of you, I kind ofhate to have to just keep
changing stuff on it.
You know, yes, indeed, onepiece at a time, you know.

Speaker 1 (24:51):
Now, do you have many vintage pieces or you just have
a few choice morsels.

Speaker 2 (24:56):
I've got a couple I don't have much old stuff.
I've got a couple, like I say,I've got a couple of straps that
I bought back when the gettingwas kind of good, you know, and,
and I I don't really play themmuch I've got the, I've got the
ones that work for me that I,you know, take out.

Speaker 1 (25:13):
I understand.
Yep, I remember back in the daywhen my they were guys that I,
local guys that were a littlebit older than I was, and I'd go
into the music store when I was, you know, either in late.
I think I was in college at thetime and I've come home to
visit and I would go in and atthat time I was kind of, um, I
was playing three, 35 a lot, butI was thinking about, you know,

(25:36):
I'd always played a tally and Iwas thinking about getting a
strat and these guys were bigstrat heads and they're like man
, man, you know, we can get youone.
You know, like a early 60 stratyou can get for about 1200
bucks, and to me, 1200 bucks atthat point in time we're talking
1986 or something that was afuck ton of money.
So I was like, no, I can't ofcourse now in comparison, it

(26:01):
would have been you know youkidding me it would have bounced
.
You know you kidding me, Iwould have bounced on it, no
problem.
But yeah, it's always one ofthose things where I I had a 63
strat for a little while, Idon't know, maybe seven years or
so, and it was a reef in andreef fret and you know all that
other kind.

(26:21):
But it was cool.
It was kind of a uh, it waskind of um, it had morphed into
surf green, but it was probablymore of a like a Sonic blue and
um, but it was one of thosethings where I'd use it for a
session here and there, but I'dnever dig with it ever.
And uh, then I was like, well,why, why have it if I'm not
going to play it?

(26:41):
So then I got rid of it and uh,and then I really didn't have
anything vintage until I I endedup getting this 53 telly.
But that was, you know it's,it's a bastard, you know it's
been, um, it's, it's a sprayover and you know it's the
everything's original ish.
But, um, you know it was thewhich made it affordable.

(27:01):
But you know I, I hemorrhaged alot of gear in order to get it
and finally I just broke down.
The neck pickup was howling andI was finally like it sounds so
good, clean.
But you know I go, I got to geta dipped or something, cause I
want to use it.
So I just got it back yesterday.
As a matter of fact, the neckpickup sounds great, but now the
bridge pickups, howling alittle bit, I'm like, well shit,

(27:22):
if the guy did a good job ofthe next pickup, I'll just have
him dip the, because I want toplay it and I'm not going to,
I'm not going to sell it.
You know what I mean?
Sure, so it's going back in fora dipping.

Speaker 2 (27:35):
You get it.
You'll get it like you want itand like you like it, and I know
you'll take it out and play it.
Then I know what you mean.

Speaker 1 (27:41):
We know.
What's so wild about it is thatyou know it's like when you
played, like you were talkingabout Les Pauls.
It's like when you play an oldLes Paul from the 50s.
It bears so little resemblanceto the Les Pauls that we all had
, you know, could play in the70s and 80s that we've come
across.
I mean some of the custom shopstuff now gets you know closer,

(28:02):
but man, it's just like withthis telly.
I mean this sounds like noother tally I've ever played.
I mean we all think of talliesas being this bright, you know,
searing thing, but this thing isWoody as hell.
I mean it does have the bite,but it's like a.
It's like a velvet ice pick.

Speaker 2 (28:19):
I've never, never really, I think one time but my
same, my friend.
I was talking about John Clardy.
He bought a 59 in the late 70sand I think he got it for like
$3,800 or something like that.
Of course he didn't have $38.
Right, I understand, but that'sthe only one that I've ever

(28:39):
really got to play.
I would like to have one, but Ikeep looking.
I keep seeing new guys showingup and they're all playing at
Sunburst Les Paul and I'm justgoing, man, isn't there
something else we can play?

Speaker 1 (28:51):
Right, I agree, you know it's, it's, which is a
shame because I think is youknow what's so bizarre about
that whole thing?
I mean, we've I've talked aboutthis a lot with a lot of folks
and you know, you think about,you know what Clapton did and I
don't even think he wasnecessarily cognizant of what he

(29:11):
was doing when he grabbed a LesPaul, summers, les Paul and put
it through the marshal and gotthat sound, certainly.
I mean, you know, freddie Kingobviously played the, the gold
top with, with P90s, but therewas really no one before that
that was like hey, summers, lesPauls are the shit.
So he was really the first guyto do it.
And then you know Bloomfield,who was playing a P90 Les Paul

(29:32):
saw Clapton and thought I needone of those.
And then, of course, peterGreen, yada, yada, yada, yada
yada.
But when you, it's just there'sjust something so pure about
that guitar into that kind of anamplifier, because really it's
all in your hands at that pointand it's just so.
Not that I'm, you know, judging, buddy, I'm not judging, but

(29:54):
it's just.
It's just one of those thingswhere now it's been so I don't
know, I don't want to saycommercialized, but it's such a
badge of whatever to have asunburst less Paul into whatever
.
And of course, the old the oldones have become such
unobtainium that it's reallytaken it away from the people

(30:14):
that should really have them.
Because of just what an organictool it is for making all the
finger vibrato and all thethings that blues guitar is all
about, that is like one of theultimate weapons to do it with.

Speaker 2 (30:26):
That's right.
And even the new ones, now thatthey're trying to make you know
as much like the old ones asthey can.
I guess they're trying to, butthey're all unaffordable to me.
You know what I?

Speaker 1 (30:37):
mean they're like 13 grand.
I mean it's crazy.
But you know, I go out toWildwood and I do those videos
and it's so fun Cause I get toplay all these different guitars
and I always find watching youdo that.
Oh well, thank you Every time.
I was just out there and theyhad a 1960 custom shop guitar
that someone had returned and itwas the most beautiful top,

(30:59):
because it was weird.
It was not a perfect flame, itlooked like the wood had been
exposed to radiation.
You know which I like.
I like a screwed up looking topand it had a smaller neck.
I usually like a little bitmore realistic, like a 58 type
neck, but for some reason I waslike, no, this is totally doable
.
And I was like, man, thisguitar is awesome.
And I took and they, let me takethem back to the hotel.

(31:20):
If they're a relic, you know,cause, what else?
What else am I going to do toit?
You know, or it's uh, Ishouldn't say relic, but you
know, murphy, aged as they say,um, and then I bring it back and
they're like you're going toget that one.
I was like, well, here's thething, I'm going to come out
here again next month and I'mgoing to find another one of
these and I'm going to take itback to my room and I'm going to
enjoy.
But those guitars sell all day,every day.
It's the most amazing thing.
As a matter of fact, the onethat I was playing and I brought

(31:50):
it back to the room.
I took a little snapshot and Iposted it on Instagram or
whatever, saying, hey, this wasmy roommate last night and a guy
purchased it but for somereason didn't like it and
brought it back.
And then he saw my post sayingthat I liked it and he's like
man, I should really get thatback.
I think he, I think he procuredit back.
And then he saw my post sayingthat I liked it and he's like
man, I should really get thatback.
I think he, I think he procuredit back again.
But it's like, every day thoseguitars go and a lot of times

(32:13):
I'll like pick out a couple thatI really like, um, and we'll do
little videos on them andthey'll.
People just buy them, like,like.
It's nothing.
So I mean good for them, butit's it's just, it's crazy
nothing, so I mean good for thembut it's, it's just, it's crazy
.
Doctors and lawyers is all I canfigure.
You know right, right, I guess.
So people who've got well, youknow what.

(32:33):
We had kids and we decided tobe musicians, so that puts a
little dent in the guitar budgetI was just thinking about that
not.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
The other day I had been watching a guy named Rory
Hoffman.
Are you familiar with him?
That sounds familiar.
He's a swing jazz kind of guy.
He is visually challenged.
He plays every instrument.

Speaker 1 (32:59):
I do know, rory, I do know, yes, I know who that is.

Speaker 2 (33:02):
That guy, I mean it made me think.
What was I thinking when I wasmaking my mind up that I was
going to make this my life'swork?
Why didn't I know there wereguys like him on the planet?
Right, yeah, he's a super freakand there are so many guys like
that, you know.
And now I mean, you know it's.
Not only do you have to beyoung, good-looking looking and

(33:30):
thin and all that stuff.

Speaker 1 (33:31):
Now you got to be a girl in a short dress, you know
Right, so that makes it a little, a little challenging, you know
.
Well, I was just thinking aboutthat again.

Speaker 2 (33:34):
you know, I got no complaints, and there's some
good ones doing that too.

Speaker 1 (33:37):
Yeah, exactly, I know , you've got no complaints.
I got no complaints, you know,just to be alive at this point
and being able to be able toplay and make a living, I'm all
good.
But I do think it's funny thatyou know when, when we were
coming up, music was one of theways that people who weren't
necessarily good looking ororganized per se could find a

(33:59):
conduit to actually hyper-focuson their, their craft and
actually be able to blaze somekind of a career path, Whereas
now it's like you know, I tellyoungins, you know, and their
parents more like well, whatshould we do?
I go, well, everyone's path isdifferent, but you got to do
everything now.
I mean, especially, you know,if you're cultivating something

(34:22):
online.
I mean, I know just enoughtechno stuff to get me in
trouble as far as, like, postingthings and understanding
algorithms and when to post.
I mean, I know enough of it, asI said, to maintain, but I
don't do any of thesophisticated editing that you
see these youngins doing withtheir videos and going on
YouTube and making sure I've gotsome little you know splash

(34:47):
page that shows how old I am,but you know the little bookmark
thing with their face lookinglike all surprised, you know,
and some kind of graphic and soon and so forth.
I don't know how to do any ofthat crap, but that's I mean.
You basically need to know somekind of editing software.
You got to be handy withrecording software.

(35:07):
You got to know about internetstuff, and then, of course, you
need to know about music.
You need to know about booking,you need to know about getting
an A all the stuff that we usedto have to worry about.
But you literally have to do itall yourself because unless, as
you said, you're unbelievablygood looking and have some kind
of undeniable lowest commondenominator appeal, no one's

(35:29):
going to help you out, no one.
You got to do it all yourself,and in a way that's good because
, I mean, there are ways ofdoing it.
But I just wonder how manyreally unbelievable talents you
might hear of if it didn't justapply to people who were, you

(35:50):
know, as we described.
It's just kind of a.
It's an interesting time.
I always say, you know, withthe whole internet thing, it's
really the golden era oflearning guitar.
You, I mean.
I mean, I'm sure you're thesame way, remember we used to

(36:11):
get like guitar player magazineand you'd find somebody that you
were really into.
And just an example like thefirst time I heard Albert Lee
and I was like an eighth gradeor something you know, and I
really didn't know that muchabout country guitar at all
because I didn't really grow upsurrounded by anybody who was
familiar with that genre, and soI would.

(36:31):
You know, you read the articlein Guitar Player Magazine and he
would mention people like youknow.
You know James Burton and JimmyBryant and of course you know
Chet Atkins and so on and soforth, and other than, of course
, chet, trying to find thoserecords was like impossible
unless you were really one ofthose persons that would go find

(36:53):
, like the real eclectic youknow record store.
When you're like an eighth grade, you go to the mall and you go
to whatever record store andthey just have music landers of
shit and but nowadays it's likeyou can read, like if I'm
reading a biography.
I remember a few years back Iwas reading there was a new
jango reinhardt biography.
It was really excellent.
I'm reading through it and itwould bring would have examples

(37:16):
of things that he listened toand artists that he liked when
he was growing up.
Then I immediately went onYouTube and, by God, if someone
has uploaded these old 78s orwhatever, so you could hear
these records or you actuallysee footage of these people
playing.
You know old movie footage thatsomebody has uploaded.

(37:38):
So and then, of course, a lotof times you read about somebody
and there's an instructionalthing of that person showing
stuff.
So there's like, literally, thequest is not.
What it was when we wereyounger when you had to find the
vinyl and then either you sawsomeone play it actually live or
you had the the older brotherdown the street or older sister,

(38:00):
whatever the case may be thatyou had that going on.

Speaker 2 (38:03):
I had a guy that was.
He played locally every nightand of course he'd sleep until
two or three o'clock in theafternoon and I'd go down there
in the afternoon, knock on hisdoor and go hey, show me that
honky tonk, lick man.

Speaker 1 (38:14):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:15):
Stuff like that.
That's what we had.

Speaker 1 (38:17):
Yeah, exactly, I used to love that.
Then you'd go home and youwould experiment, but nowadays
it's just all there, which Iwonder if that's even more

(38:39):
intimidating to folk to realizethat all of that is available.

Speaker 2 (38:44):
But you still got to put the time in and there's a
lot more of it that you have toglean through to see what you
need to do to make it work foryou.
Right Exactly, I've been doingsome gigs with Wanda King,
freddie's daughter.

Speaker 1 (38:57):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (38:58):
It's kind of like it's a horn band.
You know a lot of fun, we havea lot of fun doing it.
But we were talking a whileback about Steve Miller and Boss
Gags came to their house onSunday and knocked on the door
and asked Freddie to show themsome stuff and he'd come out in
his bathrobe, you know, and sitin the living room and play to

(39:19):
them.
You know You're kidding me?

Speaker 1 (39:20):
That's wild, that's great stuff.
We interrupt this regularlyscheduled Gristle Infested
conversation to give a specialshout-out to our friends at
Fishman Transducers, makers ofthe Greg Koch signature Fluence
Gristle Tone pickup set Can youdig that?
And our friends at WildwoodGuitars of Louisville, colorado,

(39:41):
bringing the heat in the shadowof the Rocky Mountains.
You know it never gets oldplaying that old Freddie King
stuff Just sitting down.
A lot of times I'll just grabmy phone, like if I'm at
Wildwood.
Last time I was out I was on atotal, you know early Freddie
King jag, so I just put on thatinstrumental record and just sit
down and play along with thosetunes.

(40:01):
There's just endless joy injust playing those simple tunes
with those tunes.
There's just endless joy injust playing those simple tunes.

Speaker 2 (40:07):
I have a friend that has a I believe it's a 6335, and
he is doing his best to causedthat guitar to be one of
Freddy's old ones and it'samazing what he's gone through
to verify it and have theprovidence and he's pretty much

(40:30):
figured out that it is, you know.
So I mean you know what I mean.
He has done so much.
He's got thousands of picturesof Freddie, you know, with every
guitar.
And there's a guy that we knowthat that knew Freddie and said
that he said Freddie told himthat he had never played the

(40:53):
gold, less Paul, on any of therecords.
Oh, you're kidding me.
It sounds to me like that'swhat that is.
You know, through a PA head orsomething.
Yeah, some weird.
You know through a PA head orsomething, right, yeah, some
weird.
You know, or maybe a fenderlamp with a bad tube in it or
whatever, right?

Speaker 1 (41:09):
So he says it wasn't actually the Les Paul, it was
probably a 335 or a 345 or somedamn thing.

Speaker 2 (41:15):
Well, you know that's what he said.
He never recorded any of thoserecords with that gold top Les
Paul, which is hard for me tobelieve, but that's what Jay
says and he was there.
So you know that is wild yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:28):
So the 70s era, late 60s, 70s era of Freddie, when
he's playing, it looked like hewas at 345, and then he had a
355, right, there were twodifferent ones.
Yeah, he had a three 45 andthen he had a three 55, right,
there were two different ones.

Speaker 2 (41:42):
Yeah, had a red three 45 for the longest and then he
started playing a walnut sort ofthree 55.

Speaker 1 (41:48):
That's it.
That's it.
That's right.
And then Gibson did a uhtribute guitar a while back and
I remember why I would had a fewof them and had a huge neck on
that thing.

Speaker 2 (42:02):
Probably not the neck that would have been on one you
know right exactly to me.
That was a little chunky.
I've seen a couple of them.
I know a guy that's got one ofthem but it was in stereo.

Speaker 1 (42:11):
Now was freddie's in stereo, you think, or do you?

Speaker 2 (42:13):
think he ever used the baritone thing.
Well, I know he used thebaritone for some of that.
You know he'll get that clankytone on some of his stuff, you
know Right, but I don't think heever played in stereo.

Speaker 1 (42:25):
That's crazy.
And of course, all those fingerpicks, or he just had the one
finger he used the thumb and onefinger pick right.

Speaker 2 (42:31):
That's what my friend says about verifying whose
guitar it was.
He says, because you can alwaystell between the pickups
there's a chunk of wood out ofthere where he played with that,
you know.
Ah, I mean, he's got it down toa science, you know.

Speaker 1 (42:46):
Isn't that crazy.
So when you were coming up, doyou think you were a little more
partial to Freddie than some,like, say, Albert or BB, just
because those are alwaysmentioned in the same grouping?

Speaker 2 (43:01):
Me and my wife used to go see BB King every chance
we got when he would come, andhe would come through town
fairly often, you know, andBobby Bland would be on the show
and stuff like that you know.
But, like I say, freddie wasavailable, you know.
And then, of course, you know,billy Gibbons showed up when I
was about 16.
Right Altered my, you know,billy Gibbons showed up when I

(43:25):
was about 16.
Right Altered my.
You know chromosomes, right,and you know, I saw them for 250
, I think, the first time I sawthem in Dallas in 1972.
And that was the real ZZ Top,right there, right, I understand
that you know how things comealong and you start paying
attention to the metronome alittle bit and your playing gets
a little better.
But, man, just the force of theway they were in those days, it

(43:50):
was nothing else like it for me.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
I was pleased that a few years back people started
uploading some bootlegs of themin early years and it is
glorious and everything's about.

Speaker 2 (44:07):
You know, 900 beats a minute.

Speaker 1 (44:09):
It's yeah, exactly fast and and but it's really
good, you know, yeah, that tone,you know, for me it's like
Billy's, that vibrato, it's justskanky and filthy.
It's my favorite.
And I used to say, you know,obviously, when Steve Ray came

(44:30):
out, you know, and people aretalking about the greatest Strat
tones, of course it was anawesome tone, but Billy Gibb and
Strat tones were always some ofmy favorite, especially like on
that Deguaylo record when, likesome of those Strat solos on
there, it just sounds so damngood.
He was a tone Smith.
Now he looks like he needs toeat some food.
I just want to just take themout.
I'm just like Billy, let's,let's get, let's get you

(44:51):
something to eat.

Speaker 2 (44:55):
But I mean, you know, it's been, like I say, quite a
while since I've actually got tosit down with him.
I have a friend that drives himaround when he's in, okay, and
uh, and you know we would seehim once in a blue moon, but
he's he, I guess he's still outdoing it.

Speaker 1 (45:11):
He's got elwood playing bass you know I saw him
not too long ago, but my buddyguthrie trap is hanging out with
him in nashville, like all thetime they're always.
He's always going out andseeing Guthrie play and they're
hitting restaurants and lettingthe good times roll.
So it's good to see that he'sliving it up.
But I guess he's up inNashville now.
Yes, but he's from Houstonoriginally, or was he from the

(45:34):
Dallas area?
Okay, that's one of my favoritelines from that, one of those
songs off of Al Loker, somesin-infested street corner in
Houston Texas.

Speaker 2 (45:53):
And Frank was from Irving, which is right in
between Fort Worth and Dallas.

Speaker 1 (45:58):
Got it.
Yeah, he's a drumming fool.
I mean I loved.

Speaker 2 (46:03):
I loved, you know, like, like shaking your tree,
and the lick the groove that heplayed on that.
I love that stuff yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:11):
You know, I don't know what it is I think my my
favorite for whatever reasonrecord is Tejas.
It's my favorite one.

Speaker 2 (46:19):
They started branching out a little bit there
as far as getting differentsounds and stuff.
Yeah, me too.

Speaker 1 (46:27):
There's some glorious morsels on there, but they're
all good.
They all have their moment.
But I do remember viscerally,initially just not liking
Eliminator.
Here I'm ready to hear El Loco2 and all of a sudden this
record, because I'm like thattone.
I fucking hate it.

Speaker 2 (46:43):
But I came around as everyone else did I went out and
bought it and I thought, well,I, I see that they're turning a
corner.
You know what I mean, andthat's when.
That's when they got really big, you know.
So, right, argue with it, Iguess.
But uh, yeah, I think he wasplaying through that.
Uh, what was the?
What was the amp?
I?

Speaker 1 (47:01):
think it was a Rockman, wasn't he playing like
a little time show?

Speaker 2 (47:04):
I'll send you a link where, oh gosh, what's the guy
that produced Price Ombrase he'stalking about?
He said there is no Rockman onthat record.
Oh, interesting, all right.
And you know what?
I can't think of the name ofthe little wood namp, the first
one that showed up with it,solid State Preamp.

(47:26):
I can't think of it.
I knew I'd get this way, but Ihad a friend offer me one of
those a while back and I thoughtwell, you know, I'd like to
have one in the stack of ampsbut I probably wouldn't play it
much.
But stack of amps, but probablywouldn't play it much.
But that was the amp he usedwas this.

Speaker 1 (47:44):
That's what I understand Interesting.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
Nobody will ever really know.
That's just like on the firstalbum and all that stuff.
Robin Bryan, robin Hood, theguy that owns the studio, he
won't talk about it.
I think Billy's got him paidhim hush money or something.
He's letting it out becauseI've talked to him a couple of
times.
He won't talk about it.
But but uh, I would have lovedto have been around over here in
Tyler, texas, about 80 milesfrom here.

(48:07):
I wish I'd have been aroundwhen they were doing that Crazy
yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:12):
Yeah, cause everyone always says it's a, it's a tweed
deluxe on that first ZZ toprecord.
That's that.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
But how could it be on all that stuff?
Yeah, Maybe the intro, like onbrown sugar, when he plays it,
when he's playing by himself,but when the song comes in and
you get some horsepower going,that's you know that's gotta be
a Marshall.

Speaker 1 (48:32):
Yeah, You'd think you'd think by God.
Fun stuff though by by crackythose old.
Uh, that stuff never gets oldto me, either sitting down and
playing along with a zz toprecord, or two is always, is
always fun I still pick up.

Speaker 2 (48:50):
I'll go to half price books and start looking at
records and if I find a copy ofreal grand mud or first, I'm
always picking up, just so I'llhappen.
You think I have a turntablethat works at this point, you
know.

Speaker 1 (49:02):
There's something about vinyl.
I'll tell you what I mean.
I do have a nicer stereo.
That's not hooked up right now,but I've just got a little.
You know, one of those thingsyou get at Target, one of those
little you know portable jobbers, and there's still something
about it.
Popping those records on andhearing that thing, plus the
digestion of you know the oneside of the record, having to

(49:26):
pause and put it on the otherside, I mean the programming of
that is the best to assimilatethe jams into your consciousness
, I think, as opposed to.
I mean, how many times have youbought a CD and you like listen
to the first five tunes andthat's pretty much it.

Speaker 2 (49:40):
Yeah, and the artwork on an album cover.
You know where a CD you'relooking at it going, who played
on this and you know, trying tofind that information, where you
got the whole story on an albumcover Exactly correct.

Speaker 1 (49:56):
Well, I was just thinking so.
When you got to hang, got tohang with the, uh, the other
luminaries of the Blues Breakers, did you have any memorable
experiences that you can share,like when you hung out with
Clapton and Peter Green and MickTaylor?
Did you have any?
Uh, was there honor amongthieves, as it were, being all
compatriots of the six string ofappendage?

Speaker 2 (50:17):
Well, you know, john hadn't seen Eric in like 38
years when that thing happenedfor his birthday.
But you know, lee Dixon, theguy that was his tech at the
time, yeah, yeah, he and Leecame up to Liverpool to do it
and he was a real nice guy, veryunassuming, I mean.
You know, I'm sure he knew thateverybody thought, oh it's him,

(50:39):
you know Right, sure, but hewas great about it and John
turned around in a blues andgave it to Eric and Eric turns
around to me and goes you wantone?
And I'm like, well, what am Igoing to say?
You know Right, I'll probablynever get another chance like
this.
You know Right In doing so, Ithink I probably.

(51:00):
You know, I looked up and here'sthe keyboard player, tom
Canning's, over here going do itall.
Man, I don't want to overdo ithere.
I was trying to hold it all in,but I think I probably spewed a
little more than I should have.
But I must say that I had agreat time and it was a
wonderful time to be able to dothat.
Yeah, awesome, and Greeny, likeI said, he didn't say much at

(51:21):
that point, but we had a coupleof laughs and we had a thing
where one night John wouldintroduce the Splinter Group and
then the next night Peter wouldcome out and very tentatively
he didn't say much, it was kindof hard for him to communicate
and he would introduce us thenext night.

(51:42):
And he comes out one day JohnMayall goes, famous for having
guitar players in his band.
I was one of them and he turnedaround, looks at me and goes
doesn't have anyone at themoment, and I'm and I'm going
wait a minute, man, son of abitch.
All the other guys in the bandwere back there howling, you
know, in his band.
He said don't worry about thatman.

(52:02):
He said he's having you on.
You know, yes, but it was quitea time.

Speaker 1 (52:11):
And old Mick Taylor as well.
You know, the first, one of thefirst concerts I ever went to
was they reunited the BluesBreakers with Mick Taylor, john
McVie, colin Allen, yeah.
Yeah and I remember the drummer,colin Colin Allen.
Colin Allen, yeah, yeah, yeah,and I was like a sophomore in

(52:34):
high school or something and itwas an awesome thing to behold.
And because I was, like you,knowick taylor was one of those
guys that he seemed to just geta little wiser, to maybe just a
hair of jazz savvy to hisplaying and, uh, and I always

(52:54):
loved his vibrato, both hisfinger vibrato and his slide
vibrato was always I like theway he sneaks the slide in and
out.
Yes.

Speaker 2 (53:05):
He'll be playing, doing a solo.
You go, is he playing slide?
Now, you know, like on thelisten to wake up call on that,
that album, this, that uh, johngot uh, it's not Grammy
nominated on song called wake up, call it a guy named David Egan
from Louisiana road and uh andmix playing that intro and I'm
going, man, is he playing slideor what you know?
Like you said, his vibrato isso cool.

Speaker 1 (53:25):
Yeah, absolutely Absolutely so.
Do you think John was?
Did he ever get tired of theaffiliation, of having, you know
, these guitar players kind ofhaving the shining moments in
his band?
Or was he just like?
It is what it is?

Speaker 2 (53:41):
I don't give a shit.
Well, that had always been thatyou know he had.
He had always been the bandleader and he always supposedly
had a great guitar player.
You know my myself not included, but I but I just mean the guys
that with the guys that we knowthat have gone through there,
um, it was, it was just part ofhis thing to you go in there and
you you start playing a soloand he's going do it again, play

(54:04):
longer.
You know I'm running out offuel.
You know crazy.

Speaker 1 (54:11):
I remember years ago when the when the internet first
started and and I don't knowhow it happened, but out of the
blue I got a email through mywebsite from Roger Dean.
Yeah, that's me, roger.
It was just like, out of theblue, just like, hey, I've been
watching your stuff online orwhatever and I'm a fan.
I'm like that's so weirdbecause obviously, growing up

(54:33):
with I remember that record,looking Back the John Mayall
record, and of course he was onthere.

Speaker 2 (54:38):
That's one my sister had back before I knew who John
Mayall record and of course hewas on there.
But yeah, that's one of mysister had back before I knew
who John Mayall was, you know?
Yes, indeed, roger was a niceguy and a good player too.
He sent me some classical stuffthat he had recorded at Abbey
road and he's playing a gutstring guitar and one.
I remember one of them becauseone of the names of one of the

(54:59):
songs, kathy, and my wife's nameis Kathy, so I hung on to that
one and he really played somecool stuff and I had that great
reverb in that room.
Oh, yeah, you know, and areally good player.

Speaker 1 (55:14):
Now, how much touring in England would you do with
John Was there, some of you know, visiting a lot of the old
haunts that he'd been playingsince time began.

Speaker 2 (55:21):
Oh yeah, quite a bit.
I mean, the last time I wentover was in 2017, and I opened
for them 40 shows in a row.
I mean, I don't think we hadany days off, you know, and I'd
just go out and play.
And this was at the time that,you know, rocky Athos was in the
band and Rocky had a flightcancel on him Wasn't his fault,

(55:43):
you know.
And uh, they John decided to goahead.
They had already gone to Europeand Rocky missed his flight.
He didn't be missed it becauseit was canceled, wasn't his
fault.
But uh, john decided to becomethe guitar player and it was
like and the promoter showed upand he's going, what's?

Speaker 1 (55:59):
going on here.
Where's the guitar player?

Speaker 2 (56:01):
Right and I was opening for him so he would call
me out.
You know, not every night, butevery other night or so I'd come
out play a few tunes with him.
You know, uh-huh it was.
It was a, like, I say, 40 daysin a row and we only played 30
or 40 minutes on the show.
But it was a good tour to be onbecause all we had to do was
walk in, plug in and go Right.

Speaker 1 (56:25):
When you're using backline, what do you usually
request?

Speaker 2 (56:29):
If I can't, I try to get a Z.
Actually I've got a Maz 38 anda Z28 Z amp over in England
that's been living over therefor some time.
But if I you know Hot RodDeluxe or one of them, something
like that, they usually, if youget one that works, that's the

(56:52):
main thing.

Speaker 1 (56:52):
Right, exactly.

Speaker 2 (56:54):
You get one with all the computer grade, no soldered
plugs, and you know Right Inputsare made out of plastic and
stuff like that.
But it's not a bad sound, alittle empty if you get one that
works.

Speaker 1 (57:08):
Yeah, many is the time I've had to plug into a
Deluxe or a Hot Rod, deville orwhatever.
And usually you just set thatclean channel and away you go,
and it works.
Use a little screaming shit boxon the floor to give you a
little gas and away you go, andit's.
It works.
There's a little screaming shitbox on the floor to give you a
little, a little gas, and awayyou go how's your, how's our
pedal buddy tim yarny he's doinggood.

(57:29):
I haven't seen him in a while,but I've talked to him not too
long ago.
Uh, he for those of you don'tknow, tim is the one who
invented the gristle king andall kinds of different pedals.

Speaker 2 (57:39):
He's great.

Speaker 1 (57:40):
And he's a great dude Smart guy too.
Very much so he retired fromhis day gig, his engineering gig
, and he works at.
Dave's Guitar has a location inMarshfield, wisconsin, and I
think he's working there.
So, dave, you know.

Speaker 2 (58:01):
Tell him I said hi, I haven't talked to him?

Speaker 1 (58:03):
I definitely will.
Yeah, he's doing good.
Uh yeah, dave's guitars isbranched out, of course.
Their main places in lacrosse.
They've actually got a place inMilwaukee Now that's where I
had my telly worked on and thenthey got a place up in
Marshfield.
I think they've got a place inMadison now too, so he's
branching out a little bit.
Have you been to Dave's guitarsin lac now too?
So he's branching out a littlebit.
Have you been to Dave's Guitarsin La Crosse, where he's got

(58:23):
his?

Speaker 2 (58:24):
collection upstairs.
Oh man, I ran into Gibbons inthere one day when we were out
opening for them and it wasfunny.
I said man, I got some prettycool stuff here, and he looks at
me like pricey well, billy'sgot to have a collection from
hell, I would imagine uh, didyou know, uh?
Quest's report, david WilsonDid you know David at all?

Speaker 1 (58:46):
I don't think I ever met him.

Speaker 2 (58:48):
David, he actually went to Billy's warehouse and
was talking about.
You know, he took a fewpictures.
He says man, it was just theseindustrial gray metal racks with
fender cases stacked up on them, you know, and fender tweed
amps.
You know, as far as you can seeand I've heard the same thing
about, like Chris crack boatsand all kinds of stuff that he's

(59:11):
, he's had over the years, youknow, I wish I had had a chance
to see some of that, but he's,you know, he's got, if he
doesn't have 10 of them, youknow.

Speaker 1 (59:23):
Right, that's so crazy, he went.

Speaker 2 (59:27):
I know he was getting dual professionals for a while.
Oh, I remember those Yep, themetal thing in the middle, yep,
he was buying all those that hecould find, you know, isn't that
wild buying all those that hecould find.

Speaker 1 (59:41):
You know, isn't that wild.
I've been going through my NeilYoung resurgence.
When I first started playingguitar, I used to love playing
along to Neil Young records aswell.
And you know he's going out onthat tour with Crazy Horse and
he's still using the same shithe's been using forever.
He's got that funky Les Pauland a Deluxe Reverb.

Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
It sounds awesome.
He's got that big.
I don't know if he's playingthrough it, but he's got that
big magnetone cabinet, that oldmagnetone oh yeah, exactly Huge.
I remember seeing one in aMontgomery Ward store when I was
a kid, going man, what's that?

Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
But yeah, he's still out there doing it, by God, in
that tone, like they open up theshow with that Cortez the
killer and I'm just like, oh myGod, I I started getting on a
jet cause I realized that he wasout touring and I didn't.
I didn't think he got anywherearound here, but I started.
You know, every time I'm goingto bed at night I'll just go on
YouTube and find something tolisten to as I'm going to sleep
and I've been listening to hisshows cause people have been

(01:00:39):
posting them and uh, from thislatest tour, and they open up
with that tune and man, it's uh,it is some primeval shit, but
good God, it rocks.

Speaker 2 (01:00:50):
How much are you home Right?
What's?

Speaker 1 (01:00:53):
that?
How much are you at home?
Uh, that's a good question.
Um, last year, uh, we were outwith the band 171 days, which
was a record, that's a lot andthen I'm right, of course, now
they're all.
The only reason why I was ableto do is that one was with me
and, um, and my youngest is incollege, so the girls were gone

(01:01:15):
as well.
So, uh, you know, my wife wouldsay it as you know, for the
first few days it's fun havingyou not around, but you know
it's a lot different now, ofcourse, with you know, facetime
and all that other kind of youknow.
Right it makes it a littleeasier.

Speaker 2 (01:01:30):
Yeah, I always say you're a hero of mine because
you raise four kids playingmusic.

Speaker 1 (01:01:35):
Well, I appreciate that.
It has worked out.
I mean none of them.
I used to always say that youknow I don't want to.
I didn't want to get into asituation where, you know, my
wife and my kids were on MontelWilliams complaining about what
a horrible dad I was.
So you know I've tried to.
You know I waited, I meanbecause we never really had an

(01:01:57):
agent in the States until fiveyears ago.
I mean, I had one in Europe,you know, and we'd go over there
and I would probably be inEurope a month out of the year
maybe.

Speaker 2 (01:02:09):
That's what I was doing when I was doing it with
Pete Stroud and Darby Todd andRoger Cotton, before, of course,
roger passed on and Darby'splaying with.
I think last time I saw him hewas playing with Devin Townsend.
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yep,and he was also playing with
Martin Barr.
Oh, okay, big hero of mine.
Oh, absolutely, and we saw.

(01:02:30):
We've seen him twice in thelast couple years.
He's come through close by.
I got to talk to him a littlebit.
I mean, those guys are 75 yearsold and they're running around
like 16 year olds, right, yeah,it sounds so good.

Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
It'll keep you young, that rock music, if you don't
let it kill you, right?
Well, that's one of the things.
When we go out now, I mean it'sbasically it's my son, myself
and toby, the organ player, andum, and we do everything.
Obviously we load up our gear.
I, I sell all the merch book inall the hotels, you know, but

(01:03:03):
it's a long day.
It's a long day but it's fun,you know.
I mean, the best thing about it, I think, is you know, we're
not playing the clubs where it's50 people show up or more than
that or less than that.
You're just everyone's there tocome and see you and and it's

(01:03:28):
been working out where enoughpeople have been showing up and
they buy a bunch of merch.
And then you realize youstarted eight, you're done and
packed up by you know 1030, 11o'clock and you're back in your
hotel and it's awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:03:40):
That's great man.
I'm so proud for you.
Glad you're doing good.

Speaker 1 (01:03:43):
Well, thank you, we've been having fun.
So we've been home for a littlestretch here, and then in July
we go out for a couple threeweeks.
July we're going to be down byyou guys, we're going to play
the Guitar Sanctuary over therein McKinney, oh yeah.
And then we're going to playthe Saxon Pub and then Sam's
Burger Joint, and then there's adifferent place in Houston now

(01:04:05):
I can't remember what it'scalled and then we're going up
to New Orleans, or over to NewOrleans, I should say.
And then back home.
So I've got this new touringvehicle that I bit the bullet
and bought and it's been a lotof fun because we fit everything
in there.
It's one of those Ford Transit250s, oh yeah, we got a second

(01:04:27):
row seat and a bulkhead, so wefit all of our gear and merch
and everything in the back andwe ride up front and it fits in
a regular parking space and thegas mileage isn't horrible.
It's all wheel drive.
And so I mean no trailer oranything like no trailer.
We're done with trailers.
Good, yeah, so that's beenawesome and um, and now I can
write it off for the next apretty sizable stipend for the

(01:04:49):
next four years, which is good.
So anyways, well listen.
It's been an absolute pleasuretalking with you.
Thanks for taking some time.
It was great to be able tocatch up and I hope you're
around when we come down therein August.
It'd be good to catch up.
It'd be great to have you sitin, if you'd be amenable.

Speaker 2 (01:05:08):
If you wouldn't cut me to ribbons, I wouldn't.

Speaker 1 (01:05:11):
Malarkey, that would be a black.
You were very gracious inhaving me sit in with you and
the male ensemble when youplayed at the Pabst Theater.
I remember that Pabst Theater,yeah, exactly Right, that was
wild, that was fun.

Speaker 2 (01:05:27):
I used to be able to do stuff like that back then he
didn't mind.
I mean, we played the BroncoBowl over here toward the end of
our tenure in the band and myfriend Rocky at this time I've
known rocky since the 70s, youknow, and their band was opening
and uh, next thing I knowjohn's calling me telling me

(01:05:49):
what's what's going down andthat we're all about to be
kicked out of the nest.
He goes and I've hired yourfriend rocky.
okay, you know crazy and I'vehired your friend rocky yeah, I
mean we, like I said, we, we'venever had any hard feelings

(01:06:11):
about that at all.
And then, and even, uh, youknow he had, he had carolyn
wonderland, which was, I mean,what's he gonna do after he's
had every good guitar player andsome maybe not so good, but
what's he going to do?
His next move is hire a girl.
You know what I mean?
Right, and Carolyn did a goodjob too.

Speaker 1 (01:06:31):
Yep, absolutely All right, my friend.
Well, you have a good one.
Thanks again, and this will beposted, I would imagine, in the
next couple of weeks it comesout.
They usually come out onThursdays, so people have been
tuning in and we appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:45):
Awesome.
Let me tell you one more quickplug.

Speaker 1 (01:06:48):
I have a record.
Yes, please.

Speaker 2 (01:06:49):
Absolutely.
I have a record sort of out Meand Jim Suler.
You know Jim, right, yeah, jimSuler and Vince Converse, who's
a Houston guy that's currentlyliving in Denver.
I think 15 years ago we went toDover, new Jersey, to record
some tunes for Arnie Do you know, Arnie Goodman.
No, in New York he had a labelcalled Bluestorm back then.

(01:07:12):
Anyway, we cut this album andit never saw the light of day
until recently.
Last September Quarto ValleyRecords picked it up and put it
out.
The album is called TexasScratch.
I just want people to maybetake a look at it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:31):
Now, is it under your name or under a group name?

Speaker 2 (01:07:34):
Texas Scratch is the name Okay.
It's me and Jim Sewell andVince Converse.

Speaker 1 (01:07:41):
Texas Scratch, I'll check it out.
Hey man, so great to see you,my friend.
You take care of yourself.
Okay, thanks for having me,greg.
Thanks a lot, pleasure.
See you later, folks.
Thanks so much for tuning in.
We certainly do appreciate youstopping by and partaking in the
most savory chewable gristlethis side of Cucamonga.
Gregory Cock, looking forwardto seeing you again next week,

(01:08:05):
even though I won't actually seeyou, but I'll sense your
presence.