Carl Verheyen

What if you could capture the essence of legendary live performances while maintaining your distinct sound? Join us in this episode of Chewing the Gristle as we sit down with the iconic Carl Verheyen. From memorable gigs across Italy, London, and the renowned NAMM show to Carl's innovative touring strategies, our conversation is full of captivating stories and practical insights.

Gearheads, this one's for you! We explore the nitty-gritty of achieving that perfect guitar tone, with Carl sharing his expertise on amps and the magic of the Dumble amplifier. Hear the fascinating tale of how a devoted fan gifted him this prized piece of equipment and how he integrated it into his setup. We dissect the balance between replicating recorded solos and embracing spontaneous creativity on stage, providing a treasure trove of technical tips and innovative studio techniques. Whether you're a seasoned musician or an avid listener, you'll appreciate the depth of knowledge shared in this episode.

But it's not all about the gear! Carl shares the joys and frustrations of teaching music, recounting personal anecdotes from his time at Village Recorders and a music school in Minneapolis. We discuss the profound insights gained from legendary musicians and the importance of understanding music theory. You'll also hear about Carl's musical influences, upcoming performances at the Ullapool Guitar Festival, and a special fundraiser with Elliot Easton from The Cars. This episode is a must-listen for anyone passionate about music and eager to learn from one of the greats.

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Episode Transcript

Greg Koch (00:09):
At long last.
Ladies and gentlemen, seasonfive of Chewing the Gristle is
indeed upon us, a convivialconversation fest between myself
, gregory S Caulk, esquire and avariety of musical potentates
from hither and yon, brought toyou by our friends at Wildwood
Guitars and our friends atFishman Transducers, of course,

(00:32):
both of which I've hadlong-standing and continuing
relationships with, and I'm verygrateful for their continued
support in this endeavor tobring you Chewing the Dog on
Gristle.
We've got a bunch of fun guests, some you have heard of, some
maybe not so much.
It'll be a little bit ofdiscovery and a little bit of
chaos all rolled into one.

(00:53):
Thanks for tuning in folks.
Now, without any further ado,let's chew some gristle.
Ladies and gentlemen, boys andgirls, this week, on Chewing the
Gristle, the amazing, legendaryaxeman hailing from beautiful
California, carl Verheyen.
You've seen him in Supertramp.

(01:14):
He's done a million sessions,been all over the damn world,
rocking people's brains.
This week, chewing the Gristle,carl Verheyen, ladies and
gentlemen, boys and girls, weconvene once again for another
edition of Chewing the Gristle,with yours truly Gregory Cochrie
here, with the immortal andpowerful Carl Verheyen, guitar

(01:38):
player, extraordinairesessionsman, super trampsman,
world-travel travelingguitarsman and one heck of a
nice fellow.
What the heck's going on, carl,how are you?

Carl Verheyen (01:50):
Well, it's good to see you, Greg man.
I realize we have played onthree continents together.
We played in Italy the firsttime when we met, and then we
played in London because I haddone a master class at some
school and you were the next guyalong and I had to crash yours,
and then we played at the NAMMshow.
So one of these days we have todo a concert together.

(02:13):
That would be magnificent.

Greg Koch (02:15):
I'm all for it.
It is time.

Carl Verheyen (02:17):
Yeah, you just got back from a jaunt.
Yeah, well, the first thing theband did was five weeks in
Europe, which was nine countries.
We started in Denmark, sweden,norway, then we went down to
Luxembourg, belgium, netherlands, germany, austria, switzerland,
italy, and it was gnarly.

(02:39):
You know how those tours are.
But I've reached a certain agein my aging process.
To where I'm going, you knowwhat.
I'm going to do this my way andI'm going to do it right
Instead of, instead of, killingmyself.
I've got a guy who's now he iscalled a back liner, ah, and he,

(03:00):
he drives his own truck, hisown sprinter, with all the gear,
and he goes there.
And he drives his own truck,his own Sprinter, with all the
gear, and he goes there.
And the first time I ever methim he's a 24-year-old guy, you
know.
He takes a picture of mymassive wall of sound mega rig,
sees how it's all plugged in,then goes over and sees how the
drums are set up, takes apicture of that.
So that was, you know, thatplace, spirit of 66?

(03:21):
Yeah, so that was the first gigon this tour a year and a half
ago.
He takes a picture ofeverything.
Second gig he goes.
I showed up for sound check.
Everything was set up, guitarswere in tune and he goes I hope
you guys don't mind I soundchecked the drums for you, holy.

(03:41):
So you know what that meansYou're hired for life, right.
So so the way I'm doing it nowis I have a sprinter with a tour
manager taking me to havecoffee, check in, nap, whatever
I need to do, and he's takingcare of all that.
So did I make money?
Not too much, but the Americantour that we just did up the

(04:05):
West Coast, which is kind ofsomething I do every year, that
cleaned up, that was a good one,excellent, yeah.

Greg Koch (04:12):
Excellent.

Carl Verheyen (04:13):
Yeah, and I have to tell everybody that you were
very instrumental of me playingthe Lincoln Theater.
And how it all came about,folks, is, I was playing this
thing called the Orcas IslandMusic Festival and because they
could only put us up one nighton Orcas Island, I stayed in the

(04:34):
little town of Mount Vernon andin the Wyndham Hotel there's a
poster saying Greg Cox coming.
And it was you.
And it said you know thepresented by this guy.
So I called you last year andsaid hey, I want to.
I want to play the Lincolntheater.
All my friends say it soundsamazing and it's a great place
to play.

(04:54):
So we did, and thanks to you,and I just want to tell you how
much I appreciate it.

Greg Koch (04:58):
Awesome.
Well, I'm glad that worked out.
Yeah, man I owe you one now.
Well, it'd be great to gettogether and do a do a gig one
of these days.
We'll figure it out.

Carl Verheyen (05:09):
Yeah, we got to do that yeah, you know, let's uh
, let's book something, uh, fornam show 2025 that's not a bad
idea.

Greg Koch (05:19):
I'm definitely coming , yeah you're coming.

Carl Verheyen (05:21):
All right, I'll figure out a thing that we can
do.
That'd be great, that'd beawesome.
Yeah, cool, I'm in.

Greg Koch (05:31):
All right, cool.
So let's talk a little bitabout how you got where you were
, and are you a Californian fromthe get-go?

Carl Verheyen (05:38):
Yeah, born and raised.
I was born in Santa Monica andraised in Pasadena and I played
with the Van Halen kids and youknow went to school with David
Lee Roth.
Oh no, kidding, yeah, you know.
So I'm ground zero Pasadena andpretty much hung around, did
various gigs in the area Back inour youth.

(05:59):
We could do kegger parties,backyard parties, we could do
high school proms, we could workall the time in a band doing
dances and everything, and thenand then, um, yeah, and then I
met.
I met this guy.
I was.
I had a five night a week gigsinging and playing my acoustic
guitar, you know, like VanMorrison, joni Mitchell, um, uh,

(06:23):
jackson Brown, that kind of era, early 70s.
And this guy came in and goeshey, I like the way you play.
Kid, you ever want to gettogether?
He was an older dude and I said, yeah, I'd love to.
How about tomorrow?
And I found out he was a prettywell-known jazz dude in the
town.
So he and I got together thenext day day and he put some

(06:44):
music in front of me and thefirst chord was an f major,
seven, right.
The second chord was a d minor,seven, flat five.
And I just kind of my headexploded because I'd never.
I go well, oh, now this is onlyaudio, right?
Nobody's going to see, that'scorrect.

Greg Koch (06:59):
yep, no well, I think I can I think, I can, I think I
could make a little noise andthey'll understand.

Carl Verheyen (07:05):
So the first chord was the F major 7.
The second chord was D minor 7,flat 5.
And I go 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.
Is this it?
He goes yeah, make it like that.
This is a richer voicing.
You might want to have the openstring.
It's nice to have the flat 5 ontop.
You could put it on the bottom,of course, the seventh type is
cool or on the bottom.
This is my favorite voicing.
Of course, this is the one allthe chord books give you.

(07:26):
This is nice.
If you want the root on top,this is nice too.
But it's an F minor six, so anyF minor six that you know will
work.
Anyway, it showed me that Ipretty much know nothing.
I could play Stairway to Heaven, I could play the solo of
Crossroads, I knew all thesefolky tunes, but I really didn't
know much more than that.
So at that point I go, I needto get out of here.

(07:48):
You know, I need to go learnsomething and I had met a girl
that was living in Boston, so Imoved East and did um, I did a
cement, a semester at Berkeley,just the accelerated semester,
and so I was gone about a year.
Okay, just the acceleratedsemester, and so I was gone
about a year because I also hadthe amazing fortune to go on the
road with Max Roach, the fatherof American Drum.

(08:11):
Just three gigs subbing for aguy, but that was an amazing
experience, of which I, whenBerkeley ended and you know I
can't just waste my time here Imoved back to LA and just
started working and then, afterabout three years of living

(08:34):
south of here in Orange County,where there was a lot of jazz
work and I was totally had theblinders on, I wanted to play
jazz.
You know, at that point, afterthree years of that, I moved up
to LA proper.
I moved back into LA area,north Hollywood, which is where
all the studio guys were and anumber of my friends were really

(08:57):
starting to break into thestudio scene.
And then I remember like myfirst session was Happy Days.
And then I remember like myfirst session was Happy Days oh,
no, kidding, yeah, my first Ihad joined the union to play at
Disneyland and Knott's BerryFarm, you know, to work with
like Martin Mull and Elvira andall this stuff, right, as a
teenager kind of guy or maybeearly 20s.

(09:17):
But yeah, I was playing aroundtown and somebody spotted me and
said, hey, can you play on thissession?
It was Happy Days, then Laverneand Shirley, and then that just
turned into an onslaught of TVand movies and radio jingles and
then people's record dates andstuff like that.
So you know, I had this bad.

(09:38):
You know, all I ever wanted todo is what you and me do now,
which is have my own band tourthe world bringing joy to the
people.
Sing my tunes, play my tunes,shred when needed and, you know,
have a good time all the time.
So I consider the studio careera massive detour, you know.

(09:59):
But one day I did this sessionfor this female vocalist and the
engineer was a British guy andhe liked my sounds and I liked
what he was getting, and so weexchanged numbers, went home
last night and I got a call fromsomebody named Norman Hall,
which translates to Norman HallRight, he was like the front of

(10:23):
house engineer for Supertrampand they had auditioned 18 guys
and they were looking for aguitar player.
Could I come down tomorrowmorning and audition?
And I did.
I said sure, and I wasn'treally a fan.
So when I showed up at thestudio, I go guys, I just have
to apologize, I really don'tknow any of your music.
And they go we don't want toplay any of our bloody songs,

(10:47):
let's play the blues.
So we ended up, you know, weended up playing Willie and the
Hand Jive and I sang some bluesand played some stuff and by
that night I was hired, so as aside man.
So I was hired for a few tunes,a few years as a side man, a
few tours, and then in the 90sthey made me a member, so which
was a better profit sharingsituation, you know.

Greg Koch (11:09):
I would imagine.
Yeah so so how much work didthat entail on an?
Was it pretty consistent yearto year?
Or was it like, oh, these yearsare going to do this and this
and this, and then next yearwe're going to take off?
Or was it pretty consistent forthe time that you were with him
?

Carl Verheyen (11:25):
it was not consistent.
There was a, there was an 85 86tour, a 90, an 88 tour, and
then nothing until 97.
We made another album and thentour in 97, 99, 2002, then
nothing till 2010, okay, 11, 12,and then we had a big tour
planned for 2016,.
But the lead singer got cancerand, although his name is Rick

(11:50):
Davies and he's a real mentor ofmine, I love him.
He's a really great guy.
You know, the show not onlymust go on, but must be the same
, no matter if it's MadisonSquare Gardens or Moncton, new
Brunswick.
It doesn't matter he's going tobe, it's just going to be the
killer, full blown super trampexperience, you know, with the

(12:12):
lights and everything.
So anyway, that that that was,um, yeah, it's.
It's a shame it's over, cause Igot, I grew to really love the
guys and love that.
I really grew to love thecatalog of music.
It's, it's different than youthought it was.
I mean, because you, you alwaysheard this sort of english
dance hall music on the radio.
Right, take a look at mygirlfriend, all that kind of

(12:34):
stuff.
Right, there's a lot of proginvolved, totally, yeah, yeah,
crime of the century and stuff.
And they were big taller fans,jethro tall fans and everything.

Greg Koch (12:44):
So anyway.
So when you were with them, youknow, because I always remember
, you know Daryl Stermer.
He played with Genesis and BillCollins and he would describe
how you know when they wererehearsing.
It would be like for weeks andthey would run the entire set in
the morning and in theafternoon they'd run the entire
set again and everything wasjust so.

Carl Verheyen (13:13):
Was it one of those experiences, or was there
some open-endedness for someextemporaneous activities on
stage?
Well, see, that's a greatquestion, because when I first
joined, they'd done a recordcalled Brother when you Bound,
and David Gilmour had playedlike an eight solo and on there
and they wanted me to do it.
And I go, yeah, I'll play asolo.
They go, no, no, we want you todo his solo.
And I go you know what?

(13:33):
I can take the time, I canwrite it all out and I can learn
it note for note.
But it's an okay solo, but whydon't you let me play like he
starts it and play like he endsit and let it live and breathe
every night.
I promise it won't suck.
I'm going to be going down onthe ego ramp and just rocking

(13:55):
and the leader of the band, rick, goes, we'll give it a go.
So I did that.
And he goes okay, you're goodto go right.
And so that was done.
The next one that I had to theywanted note for note was you
know, goodbye, stranger.
Oh yeah.
And that one starts with awah-wah, right.

(14:18):
So I said I'll start it withthat and then, uh, then let me
go and I will cue the ending bydoing that up an octave and
it'll give it a go.
So I did it and you know thedrummer did not like being cute.

(14:39):
He wanted it to be.
You know x amount, you know 64bars or whatever it was.
But if I just felt like going Iwouldn't look behind me.
You know X amount, you know 64bars or whatever it was.
But if I just felt like going Iwouldn't look behind me, you
know, I wouldn't look, Iwouldn't look at them.
But, um, so some nights it wouldbe so magical that you know,
you know cause.
You know, with those bigstadiums and arenas you know we

(14:59):
were using in ears, but I wouldtake one out and get up front
and hear the mains.
God, that is the biggest thrillof a lifetime.
And in the beginning I had apretty big rig back then too,
but I'd be like 30 feet awayfrom my speaker's cabinet, so

(15:21):
getting feedback and sustain wasnot going to happen.
So I a combo amp.
It was a jim kelly combo.
Oh, I love those jim kellycombo yeah, yeah, so there was
um.
So I had I had two jim kelly'sand I think a marshall in an, in
an amp rack and an effects.
This is in the bradshaw yearswhere we all had bradshaw right,

(15:41):
and then two but four, 12.
So there was an ego ramp thatyou that was grading, you know
like metal grading, and I had aJim Kelly down there tilted back
pointing up at me and I'd walkout there and my guitar tech
would come up underneath me andgo, you know okay, and take it

(16:01):
off standby, and I could justhold a note and I'm feeding back
through that.
Oh, awesome, cool.
So then I applied that concepton one of my records in the
studio where I was in thecontrol room.
You got to try this I'm in thecontrol room and I've got a
speaker out to something in theroom, right, and it's being
mic'd.
But I also had a 112 cabinet inlike the mic closet and when I

(16:28):
wanted to play this high Bnatural on the 19th fret, you
know, just hold a B way up thereand have it sustained I just
would nod to the second engineerand I say open the door.
So he'd open the closet doorand I'd get feedback with that.
Awesome, you can do that in thestudio, otherwise you're out

(16:50):
there bleeding, you know, RightAt that volume that's going to
make it do that.
But it really needs to be aguitar cabinet, because I tried
it with an NS-10, you knowstudio monitor.
It just didn't not the sonicgirth we need as men.

Greg Koch (17:08):
It's so funny.
You should mention those JimKelly apps because I remember
when I was, when I was a young,and this buddy of mine moved
into town and he was from Texasand he would always tell me he
goes these guitar players downin Texas I play with they really
love these Jim Kelly amps.
He goes.
If you ever see one, you shouldjust buy it.

(17:30):
And I was in the store and Iwas in my I don't know, I was
probably 23 years old orsomething and I I walked into
the store and I look on the.
Uh, there was just one of thesestores.
They just piles of crapeverywhere you know, amps and
guitars everywhere.
I loved it.
It was one of those old school,just like you know, everything
on top of each other, mayhemtype of a music store.
And I looked down and there wasa Jim Kelly combo with the
cover on it and I looked down, Igo, how much is that?
He goes?
Ah, 400 bucks.

(17:51):
So I bought it.
Right, I'd never even heard it,I just bought it.
And it was one of the, the twochannel.
Uh, exactly with the with the.
Uh, um, uh, the power, soakpower tape power 10 degree.

Carl Verheyen (18:03):
Yeah, foot activated channel switching.
I was good friends with Jim andI would go in all the time and
I'm a big Princeton fan.
I've got four Princeton's,they're glorious.
And so I said you're making sixV six amps.
These are six V six amps.
Can you make my Jim Kelly appsound like a giant Princeton?
Well, it offended him untillater, later down the road, you

(18:28):
know, when we met again.
You know, a few years later hegoes yeah, I see what you were
talking about and you were rightthat that's, that's what I
should be going for, isn't thatwild?
Yeah, he's still around, jimKelly, great guy.

Greg Koch (18:41):
Well, I got one of the late and I, I, I, I.
That was my main amp for quitea few years.
And then I blew it up at onepoint and whoever kind of worked
on it just didn't sound thesame.
So I ended up selling it, yeahand uh.
And then years later he startedhe did a couple years back,
maybe 10 years ago now hestarted making amps again and,

(19:01):
uh, I ended up getting one ofthe the single 12 combos, but it
was just the single channel one.

Carl Verheyen (19:07):
Yeah.

Greg Koch (19:08):
Which is cool.
Which is cool one, too.
There's a lot on the word ofGod, though.

Carl Verheyen (19:12):
Yeah, I know what you mean.
Yeah, over in Europe my cleansound is I.
I always use these four amprigs.
I mean I have for the States Ihave umoman and a HiWatt stereo
clean, oh nice, and then youknow, in other words, there's
effects that make it stereoRight.
And then for the distortion I'musing a Dumble Overdrive

(19:36):
Special and a Marshall 100 watt,kind of a wet dry situation.
You know, the Marshall is poweramp in only and so using a
Friatt power station it's reallya complicated rig.
But over in Europe the rig thatI keep there is two Fender
Twins for the clean side right,and the dirty side is a Marshall

(20:01):
and a little rack-mounted poweramp.
So I'm getting tired of theseTwins because really sound great
at when you crank them to four,right.
But I have a background singerbabe and she's standing right in
front of it and it's justkilling her.
The clean sound kills her morethan the crank tone.
Interesting, I don't know why.

Greg Koch (20:20):
So tell me a little bit about the dumbbell you have.
Have you had it forever?

Carl Verheyen (20:24):
No, I've only had it for about three years.
I play this thing called theGuitar Masters Series in
Bakersfield every year and Iactually sometimes I just did it
with my band and I do thisthing with this other band I
have for their fundraiser.
It takes place at the BuckOwens Crystal Palace, which is a
600-seater fantastic place.

(20:44):
At the Buck Owens CrystalPalace, which is a 600-seater
fantastic place, every year Ihave a special guest.
We've had Sonny Landreth, we'vehad Jerry Douglas oh nice, he
was killer on his electric slideand it's got a B3 and two
drummers and two guitars.
So it's an Alban Brothers typeof thing, right?
Yeah, yeah, we actually do thememory of Elizabeth Reed, but we

(21:08):
do it at Christmas.
So we do these insane Christmasmedleys in the style of oh wild
.
So there's the yes medley,which is Christmas carols, but
with yes tunes interspersed,it's like a six-pager, right.
And there's a Birds medley.
When I bring out, there's abirds Christmas where I bring

(21:28):
out my Rickenbacker, and youknow.
So then we did a Tom Petty oneand yeah, anyway, it's a fun
thing.
Every year there's a specialguest.
So one year I was going upthere I think it was with my
band and the promoter is areally good guy.
He called me in advance and hegoes.
You know, there's a guy up herewho's been to all 96 Guitar
Master Series concerts becausethere's one a month and he goes

(21:51):
you and your band is hisfavorite and I go, oh, that's
great, I'd like to meet him.
And he goes and he has adumbbell that he wants to sell
you and I said well, you know,thanks, but that's way out of my
wheelhouse, you know, becauseJohn Mayer just paid 150 grand,
right, exactly, yeah.
And another buddy of mine soldone to Joe.
Hey, bless you, my wife goes byand sneezes real loud.

(22:15):
Anyway, I heard Joe Bonamassapaid to my friend, you know, a
big boatload of suitcase ofmoney, right, and yeah, that's a
little out of my wheelhouse andI already own a close to 50
amps.
I'm, you know, I tell my wife20, but you know there's way
more.
So he goes, no, he's a huge fanand he wants you to have it for

(22:39):
5 000 bucks and I go, that'simpossible.
I said that's pretty muchimpossible, so I kind of about
it.
So then we did the concert andI'm doing the selfies with the
punters, you know, and I'm doingthe selfies with my great fans
and signing stuff.
And the promoter comes over andgoes hey man, you want to meet

(23:01):
the Dumble guy?
So I go, good night everybody.
Hey man, you want to meet theDumble guy?
So I go, good night everybody.
So I go meet the guy and he's asweetheart of an old geezer,
really good guy.
He pulls out his phone, he goesyeah, it's an Overdrive special
, you know, and I've really onlytaken out of the house about

(23:21):
three or four times and I wasgood friends with Alexander
Dumble and he built it to me forme about 12, 15 years ago.
And so I go well, how much youwant for it?
And he goes $5,000.
And I go do you realize youcould get 50 to 100 times that
money?
Or you know, 50 to 70 times.
He goes listen, you need theamplifier, I don't need the

(23:43):
money.
He's like bawling me out.
So I go God, what a theamplifier.
I don't need the money.
He's like bawling me out.
So I go God, what a luckybastard am I.
So I had to fly to Dallas thenext morning so I couldn't take
it home right away.
So that was a Friday, saturday,sunday, so Monday morning he
calls me.
Still want the amplifier.
I go, buddy, I will be right up.
And then I told my wife, carol,I said, honey, if we don't like

(24:04):
this we can trade it in on aFerrari.
Yeah, exactly, you know, causeit's that valuable.
So it took me a little while,greg, to tame it.
I mean you just don't needpedals.
But I love pedals.
I love the textures you get ofthe different three or four
different distortion pedals.
I can get the Klon tone or Ican get a real thick, saturated

(24:25):
sound or more of the Zen drivetone.
You know, you can get thesedifferent things.
So I ended up working with itfor quite a while before I
started playing it live, becauseit was just too thick, too much
.
You really don't need a pedal,especially with a, with an SG or
a three 35 or something anyhumbucker.

Greg Koch (24:43):
So so, uh, overdrive, especially that doesn't have
reverb on it.
So did you get like thedumbulator in order to interface
effects with it, or you just no, I run it.

Carl Verheyen (24:52):
I run it through a Friant power station.
You know what those are.
No, it's a thing where it's alittle two space rack or you can
have it standalone where ittakes speaker out.
Um, it has.
And then it's an attenuatorright, but it's active
attenuation, much unlike the JimKelly or the THD hot plate.

(25:16):
It's an active thing.
You can turn it way down to thesound of the room.
It has an effects loop in it soI can put a sexy reverb pedal
in there, Got it.
The main thing I like it for ithas line level out.
And the line level out can gointo my lexicon PCM 41,.
You know delay, so I don't havedelay before the distortion

(25:40):
before and then that goes to apower amp, Got it.
So you get.
You get a wet, dry thing,because the wet side is the
delay side, although it's gotplenty of love, you know, crank
tone mixed in, and the dry sideactually has a reverb on it too.
So it's really a glorious sound.

(26:00):
I mean, I'm thrilled to play it, man.

Greg Koch (26:04):
Excellent, so you find that you?
So it's like a channelswitching thing with that, or do
you just have the one sound?

Carl Verheyen (26:10):
Well, no, so with that dumbbell.
So I have an AB box right.
I got a pedal board with threeor four distortions, a wah-wah,
a tuner and an AB, and the AB isone of those, one of these
Laylee deals.

Greg Koch (26:24):
Oh Laylee, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah.

Carl Verheyen (26:27):
So here's a beat up, one right.
And so if you go on the Layleewebsite, he, you can do it like.
This is going to be your clean,this is going to be your dirty
and this is going to be your.
You know, the third button isyour tuner, but I put it this
way in my pedal board and usewhat he calls the Verheyen mod,
which is it's clean, it's dirty.
You never have to look down andfind the other button, perfect.

(26:49):
And so it's switching betweenthe two clean amps, boom to a
whole different rig.
The dumbo marshall rig got itto me.
That's super organic because, ifyou think about it, there's no
channel switching, there's nomidi crap, where everything cuts
off.
It's now like the delays andreverbs of my clean sound hang

(27:10):
in the air while I've switchedand played a single little line.
You know right.
So in other words, you could bedoing a groove like um, you can
go with clean, right, right,and that is the button and you
hit.
You hit the button and playthat lick and then you're back

(27:31):
to here, hit it again.
So my foot, basically my rightfoot, just huffers over that
button and anytime I think of aline to throw in with distortion
and all its delays hang in theair, well, and back to the clean
, super organic.
Yeah, it's a manly.
It's a manly approach.
It is, however, however, mytour manager's getting real

(27:52):
tired of lifting all that.
You know he's over it, you knowso.
Every tour he has a dark day orhe goes.
Yeah, I'm not gonna do thisnext year.
Yeah, yeah, ask me in sixmonths if I ever want to do this
again.

Greg Koch (28:08):
You know it's funny and then he always does so is is
the dumbbell a combo or justthe head?

Carl Verheyen (28:14):
just a head, okay , cool yeah, so I'm a forehead
guy, so anyway.
But then you know, I do gigswith other people where I just
bring like a um, a dr z z lux,and that covers it, you know,
with a mini pedal board.
So I'm not.
But I think that I've made adecision early on that the sound
of the cvb, the carl verheyenband, is going to be god's

(28:38):
playing.
You know whether he played that, whether he showed up that
night or not, and it's justgonna.
You know, it's gonna be areally wonderful guitar sound
that I'm inspired by.
So now I don't have to use thetwo, four by 12 side by side,
although I did at the LincolnTheater.
I could also do it with two,two by 12.

(28:58):
So we have a little club herein LA called the Baked Potato.
You know it.
That rig won't fit in there.
So I take two, two by 12s, andthe same rig, same rack, same
pedal board, same four heads,but so the outside two are going
to be clean, the inside two,but they're single 12s and it
sounds amazing for a small placelike that.

Greg Koch (29:21):
Awesome.
So these days, how much stuffdo you divide between doing
sessions and gigs and anyteaching?
Do you do some teaching stillat GIT or the or the college, or
or not?

Carl Verheyen (29:37):
I pretty much bailed on all that stuff I was
teaching at USC of course calledadvanced electric guitar in the
style of Carl Verheyen, thatwas what they called it.
And I decided to say you knowthat you can't be teaching that
12 week course if you're gonefor four of the weeks.
Right, exactly, had to bail onthat course.
If you're gone for four of theweeks, right, exactly, I had to
bail on that.
Then I just got real tired ofthe MI thing.

(29:57):
It just became monotonous andtedious.
I was doing open counseling,like Scott Henderson and Alan
Hines.
I came out one day and theywere towing my car away.
The cops were towing my car inHollywood.
I had plenty of money in themeter, but after I'd parked

(30:18):
there they decided to put upthings saying no parking after
12 noon.
I was there from 11 on andthey're towing my car away and I
go.
You know I don't need thisanymore, I'm done so and I
picked up the straw that brokethe camel's back.
Yeah, yeah, and I was doing thissessions that summer.
I was producing this guy'srecord at village recorders,

(30:42):
which is one of our big templesof tone, you know, in the
Fleetwood Mac room, and I had 20days in a row, 20 days with
Monday through Friday there, soI was going to have to sell out
the next four weeks.
Anyway, I just go, I'm out.
But I love to teach.
I'm sure you do too.
It's a beautiful experience topass it on to the next
generation somehow.

Greg Koch (30:59):
Yeah, and it's fun to deconstruct what you do.
You always kind of figure outnew things.
But, by the same token, I wasgoing to ask you about it
because you know it's differentwhen you do like a workshop or
if you're doing like a privatelesson, where they really want
to be there.
And the college thing is weirdbecause you got people that are
maybe they don't know what theyreally want to do, so they're

(31:23):
going to music school, or maybetheir parents are paying for it
or whatever the case may be.
But man, you know, you're justnot used to people not being
totally into it, and when you'reinto it it's it's because we're
all in.

Carl Verheyen (31:36):
You know we're all in.
You know we're all in, and Ican't imagine you not being
exactly Exactly.
Yeah.
One guy said to me I wasshowing him those harp harmonics
, like, because why do I need toknow that?
All I want to do is play likeslash?
And I said, buddy, you justneed to go to your bedroom and
get some guns and roses records,like we all did, and learn,
learn that stuff.
It's not rocket surgery, right?
So anyway, man, I, I, I'm thesame thing, see.

(32:00):
The other thing is I don't knowabout you, but it's probably the
case I've really not had anyother jobs.
I've been playing the guitar myentire life, except for summer
to pay off a Les Paul.
I was a box boy in the Safewaymarket, but the rest of my life
it's been playing the guitar.
So my goal in teaching thatkind of thing is here's how you

(32:24):
make, here's what you need toknow to make a living.
The college kids they're justgoing to.
You know marking time.
You know mom and dad will sendme to college.
I don't want to go to realschool, so I'll go to music
school, and you know, see if Ican be a rock star, right?
So anyway, yeah, that's a weirdsituation that.
So that's why I kind of bailedon that whole program.

Greg Koch (32:45):
Yeah, well, I can relate because you know I was
actually talking to.
I forgot who I ran into, causewhat.
I was in a situation where myson, uh, when he just got out of
high school, you know, he wenton the road with me a bit and
then he's like you know, hewanted to go to college, a music
school, wanted to have acollege experience.
One thing led to another, andthe school where he went up in

(33:06):
Minneapolis and the twin cities,they kind of made me an offer.
I couldn't understand wherethey.
You know I only had to be theretwo days a week kind of doing a
survey of guitar styles, and itwas both a written and, you
know, musical example type of asituation.
And then my son went to schoolfor free and then I was, you

(33:27):
know, full time two days a week.
It was like I had to do it.
So, and this was your drummerson, correct?
Yes?

Carl Verheyen (33:34):
Yeah, he's a good musician man.

Greg Koch (33:36):
Oh, thank you, we're, we're having a blast, so he
still goes with me everywhereand that that's worked out
swimmingly.
But that situation at thatschool was so bizarre because I
would get so excited.
You know putting this stufftogether and you know you go up
and you, you know, and I, therewas stuff, I and you know you'd
go up and you know, and therewas stuff I learned that I
didn't know before.

(33:56):
Like one of the things I foundout about when I was doing, like
you know, the country bluessegment, was that they had this
thing about.
You know, back in the daypeople were buying, you know,
stella guitars and overtonesfrom the Sears catalog.
Yeah, and that was when parlorguitar was the thing, the Sears
catalog, and that was whenparlor guitar was the thing, and
it was mostly women that playedparlor guitars, like in the

(34:18):
late 1800s, early 1900s, and sothey would learn these songs in
open tunings like Sevastopol andSpanish Flandango or whatever
it was, and so they would havethat sheet music in the guitars
that they were sold.
So the thought was is thatthese people down in the
plantations and the blues folkwhen they got these guitars,

(34:40):
they would open them up andthere was this thing of tune
your guitar to this open chord.
And then they took their glassbottles and started doing it.
So because we're like, you knowwhat I mean.
So I was like I never even knewthat.

Carl Verheyen (34:51):
Yeah, and I never thought of it that way either.
So that's probably where a lotof the open tunings came from,
exactly.
You didn't need fingerings, youjust need to bar it.
Basically, exactly, finger orfly.

Greg Koch (35:00):
I was all excited they were telling these kids
that and they're looking at meand like drool is coming out of
the side of their mouth and Iand then you know, and then
remember, one day I went in andI made them write, you know, and
I didn't make them write much.
I was like, just do a singlepage paper on what this, on what
you learned or what you know ofthis particular segment, of

(35:23):
whatever we were on at the time,and they came in and none of
them had done the work and theseare all like upperclassmen, and
there was only like a dozen ofthem in the class and I remember
just saying to him I go, guys.
I don't know if you understandit, but this business is almost
impossible to succeed in underthe best of circumstances, and
none of you motherfuckers arethe best of circumstances yeah,

(35:44):
yeah, and none of you guys aregoing to succeed.

Carl Verheyen (35:46):
Yeah, yeah, oh man, I remember this one student
came in and he had a Telecasterthat was done with total flames
, you know, like he'd had itpainted with these, you know,
like on a hot rod, those kindsof flames, and then his arms had
the same flames and his hat youknow everything, his whole
branding was together Couldn'tplay a note.

(36:08):
The guy was awful, he couldn't,he couldn't play a C chord, you
know.
So it's like he got everythingtogether except for oh yeah, I
better learn to play too.

Greg Koch (36:16):
Yeah, and then, and then you're, you're sitting
there and you're like and thenyou do the private lesson thing,
and you're with this personthat you know saved up money to
go to this school, and you'rejust like, oh my God, you don't
know how to play.
And I remember I was talking tosomebody who was teaching at
Berkeley, at the time and I said, guys, I just I'm not, I'm not
okay with this.
You know they're paying allthis money to go to this school

(36:41):
and it's yeah, it's my job tokind of perpetuate the delusion,
you know Right right, you're anenabler, exactly and what you
are?
He said something veryinteresting he goes.
You know, I had the sameproblem and then a guy that had
been teaching there for longerthan he had said look, he goes,
we're all here, and all thoseother students that really can't
play, they're all here so thatthe one or two that actually

(37:05):
have a chance can get theirstuff.

Carl Verheyen (37:09):
Yeah right, oh, I see what you're saying.
In other words, everybody needsto pay tuition to launch these
two guys.

Greg Koch (37:14):
Exactly.

Carl Verheyen (37:16):
You need a village to make two guys get out
of here who actually have achance.

Greg Koch (37:20):
Yeah, yeah.
We interrupt this regularlyscheduled Gristle Infested
conversation to give a specialshout out to our friends at
Fishman Transducers, makers ofthe Greg Koch Signature Fluence
Gristle Tone Pickup Set Can youdig that?
And our friends at WildwoodGuitars of Louisville, Colorado,
bringing the heat in the shadowof the Rocky Mountains.

Carl Verheyen (37:48):
So I went to Berklee and, yeah, there wasn't
anybody.
The summer session there wasn'tanybody any good.
But four doors down from mylittle basement apartment was
Pat Matheny, Jocko and Bob Mosesnightly.
Oh good God, five nighter fortwo weeks.
Then they take a week off, thenthey come back and do it again.
And Jocko was flying up fromFlorida and Pat, you know, I sat

(38:13):
down and hung with those guys,talked to them and when I first
sat down with Jocko at a table Isaid, man, you just play so
amazing, just so different.
You're bass playing.
Where are you coming from, man?
I mean, where are you thinking?
And he goes.
I come from Florida, man.
I listen to a lot of the IslandCats, I listen to James Brown.
I was on the road with MitchRyder and the Detroit Wheels and

(38:34):
I'm doing this and he goes.
And then Bobby Columby, fromBlood, sweat and Tears, marched
me into Epic Records.
We went to the top floor.
He said play a little amp, playthe bass for the guy.
And he got me a record deal.
And my record's coming outHancock, I'm going to have Sam
and Dave.
Hubert Laws and he's just a guyin a bar, you know, power

(39:01):
rapping at me and I'm thinking,yeah, right, I don't know about
this.
Yeah, Three months laterthere's that Jocko album with
Herbie Hancock and Sam and Dave.
I'm going dude, this is so cool.

Greg Koch (39:08):
Yeah, that's wild.

Carl Verheyen (39:10):
Yeah, that is wild, what a life man.
So yeah, that semester atBerkeley, the thing I learned,
the one thing I learned, andthis is a good little thing to
be putting out there there was aharmony class, day one, and the
guy writes the C major scale onthe blackboard.

(39:32):
You know C, d, e, f, g, a, b, c.
So he goes.
Now you've all heard of the one, four, five chord.
Everybody goes.
Yeah, he goes.
Okay, every chord can beharmonized.
There's a two chord, it's a Dminor, there's a three chord,
it's an E minor.
So he stacks them up and showsus you know, the minor minor,
seventh major, seventh, G7, theharmonized scale.

(39:54):
Then he goes your homework, getyourself that.
Well.
Then he said this is no flats.
The first one is F, one flat,then two flats, then three flats
, four flats, and then you startwith five sharps and go four
sharps, three sharps, two sharps, one sharp, nothing.
You're back the circle offifths or fourths.
In that case, get yourself some12-stave music paper and write

(40:16):
out all 12 keys and harmonizeall 12 keys by tomorrow.
So smart-ass Verheyen in theback row goes excuse me, why do
we need to do that?
Isn't the sixth chord alwaysgoing to be a minor and he goes.
Okay, what's the sixth chord inB flat?
And of course I had to go.
Let's see b flat c and he, youknow I had to count up to the g

(40:36):
and I'm going to be fine and hegoes and you should instantly
know it's a g minor seven andyou should know that the g minor
seventh is the two in f andit's the, it's the three and e
flat and you know's so and it'sthe sixth in you know.
So he was just like it was anamazing, like revelation.

(40:58):
And then many, many years laterwell, actually, probably only
about four years later I had agig in Laguna beach playing this
club called the white house,and it was a jazz club, excuse
me.
And my band played four nightsa week.
And it was a jazz club, excuseme.
And my band played four nightsa week.
And then they had a big nameact like Larry Carlton or Dizzy

(41:22):
Gillespie or Carmen McRae or orI remember the, the Jazz
Crusaders.
They had them come in theweekend Friday, saturday, sunday
, so one weekend it's going tobe Joe pass, solo guitar.
So of course I live there,cause I could.
I could play four nights a week, eat there and then get in free
the other three nights, right,if I dug the band.
So I'm there in the front rowwatching Joe pass, and after the

(41:45):
show I said, is it?
I said, joe, I know, I knowyou're staying at the Ben
Brown's motor hotel.
Can I come by tomorrow and geta guitar lesson from you?
I'm a serious student of theguitar.
I'll pay you anything you want.
He goes yeah, 50 bucks, 10o'clock.
I mean this is back in the 70s,right?
So I got 50 bucks.

(42:06):
I am there at five minutes to10 with my Gibson 175.
And I walk around the corner andthere's Joe with his two sons
and they all have fishing polesand they're heading to the beach
across the street Right.
So he sees me and he goes ah,for Christ's sake, I got to
teach this guy boys.
And I go Joe, I'll come back atthree, I'll come back tomorrow,

(42:27):
we don't have to do it, noproblem, I'll come up to your
pad in LA.
And he goes no, come on, youknow.
So we go into his bungalow.
There were little individualbungalows and, oh my God, I mean
, there's cigarettes, butts incereal bowl, milk, you know,
squished out.
There's pizza from two days ago, there's it's a disaster beds

(42:48):
unmade and of course there's theone chair.
So I gotta move everything outof the way, sit on the bed.
And he goes I'm not really ateacher.
Uh, why don't you tell me youknow, why don't we play a tune?
And you tell me, you know, stopme when there's something you
don't know.
So I said, okay, how aboutwhat's new, which is a tune I

(43:08):
knew and that he played, playedthe night last night.
So he goes okay, what key?
And I go C, of course the keyit's in he goes listen, if I
know a tune in one key, I knowit in all 12 keys and that's the
one thing I learned, becauseevery five minutes was, dad, can
we go play?
I think I bailed after about 45minutes but I reflected on that

(43:32):
and it's like you know he canplay somewhere over the rainbow
in B or E flat or A flat.
You know his brain works thatway and you know it was a really
interesting thing, kind of tiedin with the Berklee thing of
knowing your harmony To this day.
I really love to analyze PaulSimon songs, elton John songs,

(43:56):
brian Wilson tunes and analyzelike wow, that was so hip, how
he got back to the one chordafter this bridge that went up a
minor third.
And then you realize, like youknow, a lot of the stuff
McCartney and Lennon were doingwas, you know, same stuff that
Jerome Kern and Cole Porter andthose dudes were doing a few,

(44:17):
few decades earlier.
You know those modulations forthe middle eight and stuff.

Greg Koch (44:22):
So so when you were getting into jazz and and doing
more jazz gigs, what was yourprioritizing of?
Of learning standards by heart,cause this is one of the things
where, you know, I went toschool for for music and it was
technically uh uh, you know, forjazz, but I at the time,

(44:43):
especially I I just wanted toknow how to play over changes
and I wanted to be literate interms of being able to write and
read music at a, you know,quasi-professional level.
But you know, for me what wassuch a drag is and again, this
is this is really on me but alot of the jazz educators I

(45:05):
experienced were the kind thatweren't, you know, the guys that
were out gigging all the timeand were very accepting of all
musical styles.
They were more the academicsthat if you bent a string, you
were somewhere between Satan andyeah, you were slapped.
Yeah, exactly, and it was like,unless you played like a 175
with flat wound strings and hada polytone amp, you were a dick,

(45:28):
you know.
Right yeah exactly, and so Iwas kind of.
It wasn't until like a whilelater that I actually wanted to
learn jazz and learn morestandards.

Carl Verheyen (45:39):
And I teach people the same thing.
I go.
You know you're not going to bethe next Joe Pass.
You're not going to be WesMontgomery, but you should know
how to play over changes.
It'll just make you so muchmore musical, even if all you do
is play the blues, you knowRight.
So I totally agree.
And I had the blinders on for awhile.
And then one day I know exactlywhere I was the corner of

(46:01):
Laurel Canyon and RiversideDrive.
I'm driving in my little whitestation wagon and I'm flipping
through the radio station andthis Joe Walsh solo comes on.
It was in an Eagles tune calledthose Shoes.
Oh yeah, that one that goes Wow, wow, boat, boat.
Anyway, his solo.

(46:23):
On that I had to pull the carover because I just went.
My God, man, the state of rockguitar has come so far since I
left off with early Aerosmithand stuff and I think this is
amazing.
And it felt to me like theheavens open and a beam of light
shone upon me that says youmust learn everything you dig,

(46:44):
whether it's Albert Lee orAlbert Collins or Albert King or
, uh, bb King or Alvin Lee.
I mean I dig, I if.
If you dig it, you must learnit, and it, it.
It brought me full circle to myyouth, to where I wanted to
know.
You know, all the Dwayne Allmanstuff.
You know, I wanted to, I justwanted to, I just wanted to, I

(47:05):
just wanted to have.
If I, if I dug it and I enjoyedit because it made me wake up
and go, man, I can play 26choruses on Stella by Starlight,
which is cool, but it's reallynot the music of my people, you
know.
I mean, I love Chet Atkins.
What am I doing here, you know?
So I had a real revelation thathappened like in an instant to

(47:26):
where I went home and said, allright, I'm done with jazz gigs.
And that's when the wholestudio world opened up to me.
I began to, and a perfectexample was you know, we're
talking about specialists, right?
I got a call to play on thisrecord and the guy says country
record, I just need you to bringa telecaster and one of your

(47:49):
fender amps.
And I said, well, you sure it'sgoing to remain country.
Should I maybe have my cartagedeliver my trunk or whatever?
And he goes yeah, go ahead andthrow that in.
So I get there, and there'sanother guy there with a
telecaster, fender amp, a cowboyhat, the yokes on the shirt,
the belt buckle and the boots,right.
So the tune starts going andhe's playing all the right Tele

(48:13):
country stuff and the guy goescan it rock a little bit more?
This is a little bit tooold-fashioned.
So I just put my Tele down andgot a Strat and put a little
hair on it and he goes yeah,that's the direction, and let's
even more.
Pretty soon it was les paul withcrunch chords and we cut, we
cut.
You know a pretty rockinversion, you know, like that you

(48:33):
might hear on a keith urbanrecord or something, right, so
the next day.
So they called me back fortomorrow, next day, the guy with
a hat gone.
It's because he was aspecialist and that's all he
could do, right, you know?
So that that you know you're aplayer that can play all styles
of music.
You can play country and bluesand rock and all kinds of stuff,

(48:56):
and that's why you, you make aliving.
You know, if you are just, youknow who's, there's guys that
you know really think they'regoing to be the next Stevie Ray
Vaughan.
But man, that guy is once in ageneration, right, you know,
once in a lifetime we're notgoing to see another Stevie Ray
Vaughan come out of the woodwork.

(49:16):
I don't think.
Right, you know there hasn'tbeen one yet.
That is a fact.
He's been gone a while, he'sbeen gone a while.

Greg Koch (49:23):
Yeah, but I don't know about you, but my parents
were, you know.
I've told this story a milliontimes on this podcast.
But you know my dad was alawyer and they were supportive
of me getting into music.
But when I decided to do it formy living you know they were
they talked to every teacher.
Anyone who was older than I wasthat had any kind of influence

(49:46):
on me.
They said would you pleasepersuade him not to do this for
a living?
So I had to talk to you.
My dad, you know, had instilledin me, like, well, if you're
going to do this thing, youbetter be the best that you
possibly can, or else you'regoing to be working at a car
wash.
Not that there's anything wrongwith working at a car wash, but
, um know, and so I think thatwas one of the reasons.
I mean I had the.

(50:07):
But to your point earlier.
It's like everything I dug Iwanted to learn and there was a.
Everything led somewhere.
You know it's like if I Ireally loved, you know, creamier
or Clapton and Hendrix, andthen I read well, who is Albert,
who is this Albert King guy andwho's this Albert King guy, and
who's Muddy Waters and who's BBKing and who's Otis Rush, and
so I got into that.

(50:27):
And then, by the same token, Iwould see oh well, there's
George Benson and Grant Green,and Charlie.
Christian and Wes McGarrett,okay.
And then when I heard AlbertLee playing with Eric Clapton,
on that Just One Night liverecord.

Carl Verheyen (50:43):
I'm like what is this?

Greg Koch (50:43):
That's not the blue scale, you know.
So I just went to all thesedifferent places, and because I
loved it, but also because Ithought again that I better be
the best I could possibly be sothat if I get caught up on Well,
you know, there's a.

Carl Verheyen (50:58):
There's the word ego, right, and the good sense
of the word ego for me is if Ihear somebody doing something, I
can't do my brain inside Idon't, this is not the outside
talking inside I go, I'm forhigh and damn it, I gotta know
that shit, right, I'm not gonnalet this guy know something I
can't play, you know, right.
So so the ego takes over andit's like I gotta know that if I

(51:22):
dig it, of course, right,exactly.
So um, there's some guys thatare gonna be like, like my buddy
, guthrie Govan.
I've done a bunch of.
That guy has tapping down to alevel that cause I gave up on it
in the eighties.
I went, you know, I don'treally like the sound and I
don't really like the melodicthing that it does.
It's basically calisthenicthing.

(51:42):
He does it so well.
I thought, man, I should getinto that again.
And then I tried it and I wentnah, I'm the same way, you know,
it's like yeah, the the tappingthing.

Greg Koch (51:54):
You you've you said it very well it's like it does a
.
I mean, the thing I love and Iknow you're the same way that we
love about the guitar is thefact that the way that you
articulate with your, your hands, it's your hands on the strings
, in terms of bends and phrasingand and vibrato and all that

(52:16):
different kind of stuff, versusactually just tap.
With the tapping, yeah, you canget some different cool
intervals and you can do thingsthat you can't do with one hand,
but it doesn't have the sameemotive quality as that greasier
shit.
You know?
Yeah, exactly yeah.

Carl Verheyen (52:30):
You know, I mean, and so, yeah, every single one
of us can sound completelydifferent.
You know, that's what thebeauty of the guitar is, and
just the way you touch stringsRight and your pick, or, if
you're like Jeff Beck, the wayyou use your fingers and the
volume knob and the wang bar.
You know, it's so amazing howthere's just a universe of

(52:50):
different possibilities.
Totally, yeah, you know so.
So that's one of the that's oneof the things.
Now, I know some incrediblepiano players and there's, you
know, in the studio.
I'll go up to one of them.
Go, just play me a G chord, bam, and this guy will sound
completely different than thatguy on the same piano.

(53:11):
So, but it's a lot more of asubtle thing.
You know, like, like, there's aNashville guy actually he's
retired now a guy named JohnHobbs.
I used to do a ton of sessionsin LA with him and, uh, you know
he was tight with Brent Masonand all those guys and produced
a lot.
His G chord sounded completelydifferent than my buddy Jim Cox
or Mike Langer, some of thestudio guys out here.

(53:33):
It was really, really arevelation.
Now, on guitar, you know thedifference between your touch
and my touch is huge to tell thedifference, you know.
But piano is another world, man, another thing.
Anyway, yeah.

Greg Koch (53:48):
Gosh, what a life.
Huh, Absolutely.
So, what's next on the docket?
What's your?
What's the rest of your yearlooking like here?

Carl Verheyen (53:55):
Well, we mentioned Albert Lee.
He and I have we're doing theUllapool Guitar Festival
together in Ullapool, Scotland,and it will be my fourth time
there.
Oh nice, I've done it solo once, once with my band, once with
John Jorgensen.
Okay, and Albert and I aredoing it this year, and then,
believe it or not, my band hasbeen offered to play a festival

(54:20):
at CERN.
Oh nice, you know the LargeHadron Collider.

Greg Koch (54:26):
Yes, yeah.

Carl Verheyen (54:27):
So we've been asked to play their 70th
anniversary festival, so we'reflying over for that one gig,
which will be a trip That'll beawesome.

Greg Koch (54:34):
Yeah.

Carl Verheyen (54:36):
You know, hey, can I leave with a lovely
parting gift of a Higgs bosonparticle, a God particle, can I
have one of those?
And uh, you know just a fewmore little things.
No more tours, just a fewhandful around town type things.
So but, um, yeah, there's,there's a club down south, the

(54:57):
belly up, we're gonna do that,and you know just a handful of
things.
And then I always do the thebakersfield fundraiser.
This year my special guest iselliot easton.

Greg Koch (55:07):
Oh nice I love elliot's a good dude and I was
such a huge cars fan back in theday.

Carl Verheyen (55:13):
Oh man, I'm so glad to hear that you know,
because that you were a fan,because me too that stuff is
killer so awesome, and his tonesare so awesome.

Greg Koch (55:22):
Yeah, one of the first bands I played in we did a
bunch of bunch of those carssongs, you know, and you know
being a lefty girl.

Carl Verheyen (55:30):
Yeah, yeah, like best friend's girl.
You know that little, thatlittle rockabilly thing, that
little car from the Beatles,yeah, and you know I watched him
do it and I go, wow, you fingerthat completely different than
the way I had it worked out.
Yeah, so, uh, so he, yeah, he'sa cool guy.

Greg Koch (55:46):
Cause, you know, being a lefty.

Carl Verheyen (55:48):
He never had any really great instruments, you
know, he just had to get what hecould get.
Right, that was obviously aGretsch, you know, a lefty
Gretsch he was playing on.
So so we're going to do fourcars tunes and he's going to sit
in on some of our our stuffwith him so awesome, but our
stuff with him.

Greg Koch (56:03):
Awesome, that'll be a blast.

Carl Verheyen (56:04):
But, man, you know I'm going to talk the guy
into having you do it one ofthese years.
Oh I'd love to.

Greg Koch (56:09):
That'd be great.

Carl Verheyen (56:09):
Albert's done it twice, jorgensen's done it,
buddy of mine, lawrence Juber'sdone it.

Greg Koch (56:14):
Oh yeah, I know Lawrence, yep, yeah, and then I
told Lawrence I was that's anice record.
Yeah, that was because you knowthere was that um that rock for
Campuchia concert.

Carl Verheyen (56:27):
Remember that yeah.

Greg Koch (56:28):
I think it was like the last time Bonham actually
played Well, one of the lasttimes he played live.

Carl Verheyen (56:33):
but and then the plan singing with.

Greg Koch (56:35):
Uh sat in with rock pile and the who played yeah,
but then McCartney played andthat was Lawrence and they did
you know coming up and all thosetunes and I love that record.

Carl Verheyen (56:45):
Yeah, yeah, you know speaking of the who, um,
I'll tell you a really funnyquick story of super tramp did.
Uh, we'd always do a week atthe Albert hall, right, and we
do a week there instead of oneyear.
We did hide part for 20,000people, but we did.
And one year we did the O2arena, but many of the tours we
just did five days and one ofthe early tours that was the

(57:09):
Prince's Trust concert.

Greg Koch (57:11):
Oh yeah, I remember those.

Carl Verheyen (57:11):
Yeah, remember those.
So it's you.
So Lady Di and Prince Charlesare.
We have to have a royaletiquette lesson in the
afternoon, and then they comeand we have a meet and greet,
and so she comes by me and goes.
So, carl William Verheyen, whatwas it like growing up in

(57:33):
Pasadena, california, andlearning to play the lead guitar
?
You've done all this homeworkright.
So I said well, I learnedrhythm too.
Anyway, she kind of moves on.
He comes along, and I had readin the London Times that his
50th birthday they had baked hima sheet cake in Houston, texas,
the size of a basketball court,a gigantic cake.
And you know, I know I'm notsupposed to say anything or

(57:55):
reach to him or anything, butyou know, he, he, he's, he's
asked me how I'm doing orwhatever, and I go.
I just have one question whatwas it like with that giant
sheet cake?
So he puts on this Cockneyaccent and goes well, I wanted
to put on me knickers and waitout into the middle of it, you
know.
And I go oh man, with thefrosting between your toes, and

(58:18):
you know that'd be so cool.
He kind of had a little humor,hang right.
So, then the doors open and wego into these royal cocktail
lounge room and we're all givingchampagne and he comes to me
and he's a close talker.
He's like in my face, right.
But I'm kind of leaning backand I noticed that david gilmore

(58:40):
is here, roger daltrey's here,tina turner's here, brian adams
is here.
That's all the spotters I couldget, right, right, and he's
talking to me and I'm thinkingto myself you may be the future
king of England, but that guy'sin the who.
I got to lose this guy, youknow.

(59:02):
So I grabbed our champagne, Igo, I'll get us some more, and I
went and put them down and wentover and talked to Daltrey for
a while.
It was really funny, reallygood that is humorous.

Greg Koch (59:15):
What did Roger Daltrey have to say?

Carl Verheyen (59:17):
Well, you know, he hired me for a TV show on the
BBC.
He said are you available nextweek for rehearsal?
And the tunes are Won.
Are you available next, youknow, next week for rehearsal
and the tunes are, won't getfooled again.
My new single and substitute,nice, I'm going, buddy, I
already know those tunes, I amso ready.
And he goes well, we'll have towork out your work pyramid,

(59:40):
cause this was going to be thelast tour.
The last gigs on the tour Gotit and work permit ended right,
so they couldn't get it together.
Oh, couldn't get it together.
I did make one rehearsal, youknow, which was really fun,
playing those tunes with him.
Oh yeah, yeah.
He kind of was phoning it in onthe rehearsal, not really going

(01:00:00):
for it, but I still.
It was like you're the guy thatsang substitute.
Yeah, that's so wild, I know,man, what a life absolutely
lately I've been playing withthis guy with stewart copeland,
oh cool, yeah, doing his thingcalled police deranged for
orchestra, cool, which he's.
Uh, he's a great writer, youknow, and he's taken all the old

(01:00:21):
police outtakes and you knowthings that they taped over and
everything and he's put togetherkind of orchestral versions of
the tunes, with me on guitar,armand Sabuleka on bass and him
on drums and three femalevocalists.
Wow, it's really cool, it'sreally fun.

(01:00:42):
I've only done it about four orfive times and I I'm hoping he
calls again from from you knowhis management calls, because
you can really tell, like, wherethe good symphonies are, like
seattle killer, you know, quebeccity, canada killers and some
of the other, some of the othertowns.
Yeah, these guys are not thatgood, you know, interesting,

(01:01:04):
yeah, so anyway, but he's a hang, he's a real hang with a lot of
stories.

Greg Koch (01:01:08):
Oh, I'm sure, I'm sure he's got quite the story.
I was always a big police fan.

Carl Verheyen (01:01:12):
Oh, me too, and playing those tunes.
The very first gig I did was inSalt Lake City and it was right
after COVID and the orchestrainsisted that everybody needed
to wear a mask, sure, atrehearsal.
And um, this is my very firstgig, right?

(01:01:33):
So they put a microphone, standin front of me and I told, I
told the road manager, hey man,I don't do any of the vocals.
And he goes, he goes, he goes,just do this, yo, yo, yo yo, and
you won't have to wear a mask.
So I go, you're on my team.
Not that I wouldn't do it.

(01:01:55):
If you've got to do it, you'vegot to do it, that's right I
understand, the gig was outsideso we didn't have to worry about
it, but that guy was likegunning for me Anyway.

Greg Koch (01:02:07):
So Well, listen, my friend.
Thanks so much for taking sometime to rap with us.
It's been absolutely a pleasure.
I knew it would be.

Carl Verheyen (01:02:14):
I knew it would be too, and I was really excited
to get your call and I'm soglad we just made it happen now.

Greg Koch (01:02:20):
Yes, Well, listen, I'm going to be out.
I don't know if you're going tobe around on July 21st, but I'm
going to be out at Venice West.
Oh yeah, yeah, we're playingout there that particular
evening, and I think we were inSan Diego the night before, but
we're definitely there hangingout in Venice, oh man.

Carl Verheyen (01:02:35):
I'll check that out.
That may be the weekend, myson's in town, but I could just
go.
Hey, you want to go to aconcert and see if he see, if he
uh see if I can see, or justbet, or just.
Oh, that's Sunday, yeah, oh,yeah, yeah, we dump him at the
airport that day.
Awesome.
And you know what?

Greg Koch (01:02:54):
I've never played there, so I'd love to go check
it out.
Yeah, it's a cool joint.
We stay with this couple.
It was really nice.
Couple puts us up in Venicebeach it's like two blocks away
from there and we hang out there.

Carl Verheyen (01:03:02):
Venice is a trip, yeah, and then are you around
that next day.
Let's see, are you hitting theroad.

Greg Koch (01:03:10):
The 22nd the 22nd, I think we're playing in San Diego
.
Oh, you're going south?
Yeah, but then we come backnorth again.

Carl Verheyen (01:03:21):
Because I live in Topanga Canyon and that is
literally, you know, 20, 25minutes from Venice Beach.
You would take PCH PacificCoast Highway up, hang a ride on
Topanga and you're at my pad.
So maybe a breakfast atVerheyen's before hitting the
beach.

Greg Koch (01:03:35):
Oh, that would be awesome.
Yeah, the 22nd we're in SanDiego, but the 23rd is just a
travel day for us.

Carl Verheyen (01:03:42):
Oh, do you come back up?
Yeah, we're going up to feltonand then berkeley oh, you're
doing that, felton gig.

Greg Koch (01:03:48):
I love that one.

Carl Verheyen (01:03:49):
That's a good time that's a great sounding
room.
Yeah, yeah, that's one of thoseold dance halls, right?
So it's got a ceiling, like uh,like the old uh.
See, we play yoshis and they'vegot a 100 mile radius clause,
yeah yeah so we sold it out on atuesday last week, which was
nice.

Greg Koch (01:04:06):
What's the capacity of that, of that joint, I think
two something.

Carl Verheyen (01:04:10):
Um my, my drummer is, uh, from oakland, so he he
rallies some troops and we getit going.

Greg Koch (01:04:17):
So because we've done , you know, we do felton, and
then we we've done sweetwater upthere and um, yeah, and you
know where I'm talking about.

Carl Verheyen (01:04:26):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we've done that one We've done.

Greg Koch (01:04:30):
But we usually go with this place in Berkeley
called the Cornerstone Breweryand that's a cool room, so we're
doing that one again.

Carl Verheyen (01:04:38):
Yeah.
So all that stuff is in thisrange of the Yoshi's thing and I
actually have Jeff Ogg, myagent book.
That for me Okay, cool, youknow, and we stay a walking
distance away from it.
But yeah, cool man, hey.

Greg Koch (01:04:53):
I'm sure none of this matters to any of the people on
your podcast.
Oh no, they enjoy it.
They enjoy listening to thisstuff, Us talking.
You're in the trails.

Carl Verheyen (01:04:58):
Yeah, yeah, all right, we're going to hang.
We're going to hang either the22nd for breakfast or the 23rd
on your way back up.
I'm in.

Greg Koch (01:05:04):
That sounds good.
I'll be in touch.
All right, sounds good.
Thanks again.
Thanks so much.
We'll talk to you soon.
All right, take care.
Thank you so much, folks fortuning in.
Special thank you to WildwoodGuitars of Louisville, colorado,
and the mighty FishmanTransducers for making this
podcast possible.

(01:05:26):
If you enjoyed yourself, ladiesand gentlemen, please subscribe
and review so that people canget the word out that this is
worth experiencing.
Can you dig it?
Thanks again, we'll see yousoon, or you'll hear me soon.
We'll see you next time.