June 27, 2024 • 55 mins
What if you could experience the essence of a city's musical heartbeat and the stories of those who keep it alive? Join us for the season premiere of Chewing the Gristle, where we sit down with the ever-versatile Joe Mass. From his mastery in jazz, fusion, and rock, to his unique role as a Neil Young tribute artist, Joe's journey is nothing short of fascinating. He shares vivid tales of recording under the legendary Bootsy Collins' label and memorable collaborations with artists like Jimmy Haslip and Jeff Lorber. Don't miss out as Joe also reveals his exciting current projects and upcoming gigs.
Step back in time with us to explore Philadelphia's rich musical tapestry in our special chapter on the city's historic moments. We recount the early inspirations, including an unforgettable encounter with an 11-year-old prodigy and the life-changing influence of the Allman Brothers. The spotlight also shines on Philadelphia icons like Robert Hazard and his serendipitous hit "Girls Just Want to Have Fun." These stories encapsulate the transformative experiences that shape a musician's career, blending nostalgia with profound insights.
Finally, immerse yourself in the intertwined stories of Philadelphia's jazz scene, celebrating figures like Dennis Sandoli, Pat Martino, Jimmy Bruno, and the DeFrancescos. Relive the humorous, humbling moments of wisdom and camaraderie shared among these jazz legends. We'll also discuss the enduring influence of Philly's jazz community and the strong connections that continue to inspire contemporary music. Whether you're a lifelong jazz enthusiast or new to the genre, this episode promises to captivate and inspire with its rich, interconnected narratives.
Dedicated to helping musicians achieve the truest sound possible whenever they plug-in.
Wildwood Guitars
One of the world’s premier retailers of exceptional electric and acoustic guitars.
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Lo and behold, ladies and gentlemen, season five of
Chewing the Gristle is upon us.
It's been a little while, folks, but it's going to be worth the
wait.
We're going to be featuring alot of convivial conversations
with various musical potentates,most of which you've heard of.
Some are going to be some newdiscoveries.
That's why I'm here to bringforth the chewable gristle
(00:29):
matter to you via theinformation superhighway,
brought to you, of course, byour friends at Wildwood Guitars
in beautiful Louisville,colorado, and our friends at
Fishman Transducers of beautifulAndover, massachusetts.
Both I've had greatlongstanding relationships with,
and continue to do so, andwe're very grateful for their
continued support in thisendeavor of giving you the
(00:51):
highest quality and chewablegristle possible.
Now, without any further ado,folks, let's get down and dirty
with some Chewing the GristleSeason 5.
Buckle up, buckle up.
This week on Chewing the Gristle, journeyman musician Joe Mass.
Whether it be jazz or fusion orrock and roll, he's a
(01:11):
multi-instrumentalist guitarplayer extraordinaire.
Known him for many years, gotgreat stories.
He's even doing a new youngtribute Right now that's selling
out all over the place.
A majestic cat, joe Mass.
This week on Chewing theGristle.
Ladies and gentlemen, boys andgirls, we convene once again
(01:37):
around the Gristle Campfire forconvivial guitar fellowship here
on Chewing the Gristle beamingin from beautiful Philadelphia,
pennsylvania, my buddy Joe Mass,guitar player, extraordinaire,
really, multi-instrumentalist.
His dossier is so deep, fromplaying with pop stars, jazz
(02:01):
heavyweights he's done it all.
Pop stars, jazz heavyweights,he's done it all.
He plays a mean keyboard, heplays sax, he plays all kinds of
stuff, but he's a guitarplaying fiend.
And on top of that he's one ofthe foremost neil young
impersonators to be found and isselling out theaters all over
the damn place.
Doing that, joe?
How the hell are you?
Speaker 2 (02:22):
I'm good.
Good, gregory, how are you?
Speaker 1 (02:24):
I'm doing well, thank you.
We've had a bit of rain here,Joe.
It's been kind of a every dayhas been pummeled with storms
and rain.
We had a little water in thebasement but figured out the
problem and we should be goodgoing forward.
Other than that, I'm good.
How are you doing?
Speaker 2 (02:42):
I'm good and there's no rain in the orange room,
correct?
Speaker 1 (02:46):
That is correct.
The orange room is sufficientlyprotected from the elements,
which is good, which is a goodthing.
So what are you doing today?
What's the latest?
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Okay, well, latest today is, you know, I've been
working on a bunch of stuff andactually, you know, today I have
a little gig outside of NewJersey and I'll be going to that
around five o'clock.
But other than that, just youknow, wake up every day,
(03:20):
practice, write, and we do whatwe do, don't we?
Speaker 1 (03:25):
We do indeed.
Now I just saw you down inDallas and you had done a set
with some jazz heavyweights.
Why don't you tell us whattranspired and who it was with,
and all of that kind of stuff?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Well, I have a good friend, a promoter named John
Hill, and John Hill, a couple ofyears ago, when I was recording
my record that I signed withBoots Hill Records back in 2020,
that's a Bootsy Collins' label,yes.
So John called up his friend,jimmy Haslip, in LA and he said
(04:05):
you know, you should, you shouldmeet this guitar player, joe
Mass.
So I talked with Jimmy and webegan you know a relationship.
He played on the what I callthe Bootsy record, right.
And then Jimmy said you know,I'd love to do a jazz record
(04:27):
with you.
Would you be interested in that?
And I said, uh, yeah.
And um, so I wrote I had like 12compositions and I sent him
those and he picked like sevenof them and we started working
(04:48):
on that and, um, of course hegot Jeff Lorber involved with it
and a bunch of other people.
Um, so basically I recorded tworecords Jimmy's on the Bootsy
record and then Jimmy actuallyproduced and got everybody on it
.
I mean there's Jimmy Haslip,randy Brecker plays trumpet,
(05:10):
jeff Lorber, andy Schnitzer fromthe Rolling Stones plays some
saxophone, mike Patterson, whowas with Dave Brubeck and he's a
Philadelphia cat playedsaxophone, ralph Humphries from
Zappa's band oh yeah Playeddrums.
Dave Weckl played some drumsand then Scott Kinsey was really
the guy who did everything.
(05:31):
So I'm just like this littleguy from Philly and Jimmy got
all his friends on it.
Thank you, jimmy.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
And, of course, jimmy Haslip, famous from the Yellow
Jackets, for those of you whomay not recognize that name, if
there are some of those peopleout there, but that's his
lineage.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
So it came time to do Dallas and Jimmy Wallace asked
me to come and play.
And I asked Jimmy and Jeff andmy cousin Eric Scatter, reggie,
he's the drummer and and we wedid, dallas and you and I had
dinner and breakfast and we allhung out.
(06:13):
We did, indeed it was.
It was just a fab, fabuloustime.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Fabulous time, indeed .
Another kind of small worldmoment is the Fender rep who I
used to travel with quite a bitback in the day.
Dan Gold is the bass player inyour Neil Young outfit as well.
It's a small world, is what itis.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Yes, it's a very small world.
Yeah, danny actually put theband together.
The way it came together, gregis.
I had to do the song Old manfor a Wedding.
Okay, I went into Danny's shopto buy some strings.
(06:58):
He has a small shop calledDanny's Guitar Shop in Narberth,
pennsylvania.
Went into Danny's shop and Isaid do you know the song Old
man?
And he said no, no, you know.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
We know.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Dan and Danny said yeah.
I said, well, you know, can youlike see if this is right?
So I played Old man and he said, you know, you kind of you
sound like Neil Young a littlebit when you sing and kind of
look like the younger version ofNeil Young.
So maybe we could do a tributeband and make some money.
(07:37):
And of course you know me,being the Philadelphia
journeyman, that I am like justtrying to keep going and make a
living.
I said, yeah, I could do that.
I only knew old man and reallyone other song by Neil Young.
And I learned, I learned hisbook and it's a great book and
(07:57):
we go out and we're booked bythis agency called Blue Raven
Entertainment and we, we playall place and yeah, it's a lot
of fun and I get to do NeilYoung's catalog.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
And there are some great tunes.
I'm an old Neil Young fan.
As a matter of fact, latelyI've been enjoying riffing on
the epic three chords of Cortezthe Killer.
It is just an epic jam.
Do you guys do that one?
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Actually we don't, and I'll tell you why.
It's because, like we do downby the river, oh yeah, we l girl
in the sand, and those twosongs, we, we, we stretch out
and we, we jam on those okay butcortez the killer.
We get a lot of requests forthat actually, but we don't do
that song.
But I recently went to see NeilYoung on May 12th.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
And he opened up with that.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
And he opened with it and it was just epic.
I mean, you know the thingabout his guitar playing.
People ask me well, when itcomes to Neil Young's guitar
playing, you don't play NeilYoung's riffs, you do kind of
(09:12):
your own thing.
And I'm more of a fusion player.
I like blues, I like fusion.
I delve into the metal side ofthings too, but if I were to say
what I am, I'm more of a jazzfusion guy.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Right.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Leaning on the word fusion more than leaning on the
word jazz.
So I tend to think about, like,if Neil Young came to a show of
mine, would would he want me toplay all of his guitar riffs
note for note?
And I would have to say theanswer would probably be no,
(09:55):
right, he like me to stretch outand do my own thing.
That's not to say that theaudience like I get some
audience that that, uh, you know, they love what I do, and then
you get a person or two that'llsay, well, you're not really
playing neil young's like guitarriffs yeah, there'll always be
a few of those people thatwanted exactly a record, but
(10:15):
that's, but that's I, but I, Ising all the songs authentically
and we don't change keys, we doeverything in the original key
and I'm naturally, as a singer,a lyric tenor, so I can sing all
that stuff.
But you know certainly not how.
You know, when I grew up, uh,my mother, my mother was a
(10:38):
classical pianist.
That's what she was.
My father's family were allsingers and so when my family
would get together, everybodywould come over and and like my
mother be playing the piano, andI was like a little baby I
thought everybody played.
So when she came over thatdidn't play, I would bring them
(10:59):
to the piano and like I wouldsay, you know play.
And well, we don't play.
It was odd to me, I'd startcrying.
That's funny.
In my grandmother's basementthere was a Vox Jaguar organ and
a Vox amp.
My grandmother had a Vox Jaguarorgan and my uncle Joe.
(11:23):
He lived in Birmingham, he waspart of the Muscle Shoals string
section, so he played on allthose records and I remember him
telling me once when I waslittle.
He said you know the Beatles'Long and Winding Road, I'm on
that.
I'm like what he goes.
(11:45):
Yeah, he.
He said I want to tell yousomething.
He said phil specter when he hedidn't want to record anything
in england when it came to theorchestration, he recorded it
all at muscle shawls.
Ah, no, kidding, yeah.
So I found that I'm like I mean, I quite didn't understand what
he's talking about then, butlike later, like you know, when
(12:09):
he passed away, I got hispractice violin it's a Robert
Doling violin made in the early20s and and you know that violin
that sat in my curio for yearsand then one day I walked by it
and it was like all right, it'stime to play.
So as an adult I started takingviolin lessons and you know, it
(12:32):
was kind of like.
It's kind of like you know, youmentioned this early in the
show Like I play saxophone, Iplay violin, I play piano, but
the two instruments that I feellike I'm kind of versed on are
guitar first and piano.
I call myself a good actor.
I'm a good actor.
(12:56):
I can make you think I'm good.
Oh, yeah, he's good.
But you know, it's kind of anact.
That's what I, because I workwith some of the most amazing
saxophonists and like, am I agreat saxophonist?
No, but what I've done on myrecords, like the record I made
(13:17):
with Jimmy, the jazz record.
I did play the melodies.
I played all the melodies.
I doubled the melodies onsaxophone that I play on guitar.
So I did do that.
But when it came time to do thesolos, I left it up to Mike
Pedison, who played with DaveBrubeck and Andy Schnitzer you
know what I mean and Bob Mincer.
(13:39):
So that was, they're the guyswho I hear as the soloist when I
, when I make a record, so butyou know, I, I it's, it's.
It's pretty cool that, like youknow, I can, I can hear a
melody and like I'll, I'll, I'llplay it on the saxophone and
(14:01):
and like I'm like, yeah, thissounds like a saxophone melody,
and then I'll kind of constructthe song around that melody.
You know, and and and andthat's something like I run by
jimmy haslip.
I'll call jimmy up and I'll go.
You know, I got this melodyidea, you know, and he goes okay
, well, send it to me, you know,and then I'll send him a melody
(14:21):
and some chords and then himand Scott Kinsey Do you know who
Scott Kinsey is?
Speaker 1 (14:27):
I've heard that name, but I don't know who he is.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
He was basically the driving force behind Scott
Henderson's Tribal Tech.
Okay, all right, he was thekeyboard cat and, like Scott,
will just tear everything apartand re-harm everything.
He's a master atre-harmonization.
I mean a real master.
I've learned so much just frommaking a record with Scott.
(14:51):
Awesome, you know.
So like that's what I thinkabout my saxophone stuff and my
violin playing.
And my mother, my mother, wasgreat as a critic playing, you
know.
And my mother, my mother, wasgreat as a critic.
My mother, like when I, when Iwas learning violin as an adult,
she would sit at the piano andshe'd go, okay, well, let me
(15:11):
hear this, and I'd be, I'd beplaying like a little piece out
of I had this, this Bartok bookwith two-part inventions and
they were really good for violin, and she would play the piano
part, the violin part, and shewould turn around and she would
(15:33):
just say to me flat out, thatwas horrible, that was terrible.
She said, your vibrato isterrible and and you know you,
some of the stuff you intonate,well, but but others it's just
horrible.
And she goes before I come backto this, you have to really
work on that.
And I'd be like, ok, mom, andI'd really work on it.
(15:54):
The mom was a savage.
And then she'd say like it'spassable.
And then, like when I wouldplay the piano, she would say
and she'd be in the other roomand I'd be playing on her yamaha
piano and she'd be, she'd say,and she'd be like reading the
paper or do something else andshe'd go, stop banging on the
(16:16):
piano, don't bang on the piano.
It was like all I was like okayand and, but I, you know, okay
and and, but I, you know, that'show I learned.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
I learned from my mom too, you know.
So when did you want to startplaying guitar and what was the
impetus?
I mean, obviously music was allaround, but when?
Speaker 2 (16:39):
when was the guitar?
Like I'm going to do this Um, I, I, I guess I was 11 and um, I
had a lot of friends who playedguitar.
There was this kid named Johnnyand in Philadelphia on Saturday
morning it was like this localtalent program.
(17:00):
So he was on the talent programand him and his brothers were
playing songs and singing threepart harmony and he was 11 and
they were incredible and I'mlike, wait, that's Johnny, I
(17:23):
know him.
I got all excited and know youcan hear my Philadelphia accent.
That's all right.
Monday morning I'm getting toschool early and I'm going to
(17:44):
watch him.
He walked to school.
My mother drove me to schooland I watched him walk down the
hill into the schoolyard and Iran up to him.
I'm like I saw you on TV and hewas like, yeah, it was me and
my brother.
So I'm like you guys areamazing.
I'm like you're teaching meguitar right now.
(18:10):
It was like a Gregory Cochranmoment.
I'm like you're teaching me now.
I went to his house and and um,he had, he had an old acoustic
guitar.
I didn't have a guitar and andhe, he, he showed me um, um,
(18:30):
like a folk song, and and hishis also.
His mom was really into thebeatles so he showed me the song
and I love her okay which was adifficult song oh, yeah, no
doubt.
And but he was really diligentwith me and took the time out
and, you know, put the guitar inmy hands and that was it.
(18:54):
I was hooked, you were hooked.
That was the end of it.
And then, you know, then Ireally got into the Allman
Brothers band.
Then I really got into theAllman Brothers band.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
But earlier in that day too you were hanging out.
The roadies kind of took ashine to you from the Allman
Brothers and you got to playDickie's Rig and stuff too right
.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
You got to plug into it and it's kind of, yeah, yeah,
yeah, it was crazy, that was acrazy, crazy time.
That day.
That day turned a lot of thingsfor me.
But I mean, I you know theAllman brothers um, there's such
diversity and and there's somany genres that are connected
(19:43):
to their music.
You can study country, you canstudy jazz, you can study blues
and you can study rock and rolland it's all in their music.
I did a record with a leaderback in 2002, and he was very
influential with me doing Latinmusic.
(20:06):
The record was called Sabrosoand the leader's name was John
Alberti, and the record did well.
It went to number six on thecharts and John also loved the
Allman Brothers and we made aninstrumental version jazz Latin
(20:28):
in memory of Richard.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Reed yeah, it's a glorious selection.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
And it was interesting because John wanted
to do it, like Dickie and Dwayne, because of J-Mo they got
really interested in jazz sothey would play Coltrane records
and Miles records in the bighouse and John noted that Dickie
(21:01):
Betts was also into Miles Davis, right that you know Vicki
Betts was also into Miles Davis,right.
A trumpet play the melody of inmemory of Elizabeth Reed.
I did like this littlebeginning that was kind of more
almond brotherish, but once wegot into tune, um, you know, it
was more like an African sixthat we played in and we had
(21:27):
just an incredible array ofPhiladelphia Latino and jazz
musicians play on that record.
It was great.
And then, unfortunately, wewere going to make the second
record and John passed away.
Oh, that's too bad, but thatwas, that was great.
I mean, you know, philadelphiais full of like, really, um,
(21:52):
history of like great writers.
I mean there's, there's.
I worked for a guy named RobertHazard.
Robert Hazard wrote girls justwant to have fun.
Oh yeah, cindy Lauper hit andum, robert told me the story of
how he wrote, that he met thisgirl and this is like in the 70s
(22:15):
.
I didn't play with him untilthe mid 90s, but in the 70s he
met this girl in Delaware, thestate of Delaware, and went back
to her apartment and she had toget up and go to work in the
morning and she was having somuch fun with him, they were
(22:37):
having such a great time thenight before and she said,
listen, I'm going to leave, um,but you're free to just hang at
the apartment and just lock upwhen you go.
Just turn the bottom littleknob and it'll lock and that'll
be good and he goes, okay.
So he, he went and she had thisreally big bathtub and he went
into the bath, drew himself abath and he was thinking of the
(22:59):
song Norwegian Wood.
You know, I once had a girl.
So he was thinking of that song.
But then he just thought of herand he thought, man, girls just
want to have fun, Girls justwant to have fun five in five
(23:21):
minutes in the bathtub.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
That's so crazy.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
And and it became.
It became Cindy Lauper'sbiggest song.
Of course it went to number one, and Robert you know Robert
wrote a lot of other great songs, but that was the hit that he
wrote.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
That probably set him for life, am I right?
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Well, he called it the Magic Envelope.
Let me tell you what happened.
The Magic Envelope is a storyabout I believe it was Polygram
that she was signed to.
So the song becomes a huge hitand there's no money.
Robert's like, wait a second,I'm the writer, there's no money
(24:04):
.
So he he's calling Lenny Pizziand his Bill Ibe in Philly and
they're like well, you know,we'll make a couple of calls and
Nothing's happening.
So one day Robert goes to themailbox and there is a letter
(24:28):
which looks like a letter fromPolygram Records and he opens it
up and it's a check for 750 000.
And that was magic envelope.
I I'm not sure exactly of ofthe amount, but it was somewhere
in that neighborhood.
And, and you know, that's when,when you could sell 5, 10
(24:52):
million records and you wrotethe song.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Today, of course, you know, with streaming, you know
you get pennies on the dollar.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
That would be, you know, $500.
Or $0.50.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Exactly, exactly.
We interrupt this regularlyscheduled Gristle Infested
conversation to give a specialshout out to our friends at
Fishman Transducers.
Exactly, exactly, bringing theheat in the shadow of the Rocky
Mountains.
Was he able to transform?
I would imagine he was smartwith his dough and managed to
(25:40):
put that to good use.
Or was he a pirate?
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (25:43):
very smart, Very smart guy.
I learned a lot from him too.
I played in his band for anumber of years and we actually
he would come up from florida.
He owned two um antique storesa place in the adirondacks and a
place in florida andunfortunately, robert also
passed away.
(26:03):
Young um and and, but I stilltalk to um his, his wife and his
children.
So I know his son's a guitarplayer too, Nice, but you know
that's part of Philly's history.
In fact, I'm going to havelunch tomorrow with Jimmy Bruno
(26:26):
oh you are?
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Yeah, well, say hello to him.
I haven't seen him in years.
I used to see him at NAMM showswhen I was.
I'd be there for Fender and hewas there with I can't remember
who it was.
Fender was doing a jazz guitarfor a while and he was the guy
Benedetto.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Yeah, he was a Benedetto guy, yeah.
Yeah exactly Eastman guitars,those are nice.
Went to launch a couple years acouple months ago actually, not
even a month ago and we wentback to his house.
He has this little Hendricksonamp and I mean, you know he's
such a great player I learned,like my jazz thing.
(27:09):
Like I had this friend whostudied with Pat Martino.
That is back in 1990.
And he came into this musicstore where I was kind of
playing around and I was, youknow, just like this rock kid
and he was this rock kid who wasstudying with Pat Martino.
(27:31):
I'm like, man, you're reallygood man.
He goes yeah, you're good too.
Why don't we get together, likelike learn some real book stuff
?
And I'm like, yeah, man, thatsounds great.
So I would go to his houseevery day, we would practice the
real book.
And about six months later Mattsaid to me his name was Matthew.
(27:51):
He said we're going to go get agig now.
I'm like, ok, he goes, meet mehere Tuesday night six o'clock.
I'm like, ok, so we drive intoPhiladelphia, we go to this
place called JJ's Grotto andMatt walks in dressed in a suit.
(28:12):
I'm dressed in jeans.
I'm like, what am I supposed todo?
He goes just shut up and let metake the lead here.
I'm like okay.
And so Matt walks, walks in, andthe um, one of the owners.
This was the grotto.
It was downstairs on 21stStreet in Philadelphia and it's
(28:33):
the place where Jimmy Bruno madehistory.
I mean, that's when Jimmy cameback from LA to Philadelphia
that's where he played was theGrotto Got it the JJ Grotto.
So Matt knew that it was a jazzlike a famous Philadelphia jazz
room.
And so Matt walked in there andRicky and Jack owned it.
(28:54):
So Jack greeted Matt at thedoor, said would you guys like a
table?
And Matt said and there was twokids playing jazz.
It was a Tuesday night and theyhad two kids from UARPS playing
jazz.
And Matt said just to Jack hesaid, listen, we're here to get
(29:15):
their gig.
Jack, what he goes.
Yeah, we're a lot better thanthem and we're going to bring
people in here.
And I was horrified.
I was like what?
Oh my God, he goes.
Yeah, try us out.
And Jack, ricky, came over.
(29:37):
And now Jack and Ricky arelooking at Matt like he's nuts.
And Jack says to Matt he goesall right, big shot, you're on,
these guys are off next week.
Anyway, you come in here withhim or whoever else you're going
to bring in here and you guysplay.
So we played the next Tuesdaynight and we brought a ton of
(30:00):
our friends 1990, and everybodycame in and Matt was a great
player and we really honed.
We were playing stuff likethere will never be another.
You, my, you know my favoritethings, my one and only love um,
all the things you are.
We play all these standards andwe played them as a duo and
(30:24):
it's and, and Jack came up to toMatt at the end of the gig and
he goes all right, you guys gotthe gig.
Now I had that gig for 10 years.
Matt got married like threeyears later and had a little
baby and so he left the gig.
(30:45):
But then I had other partnersin the gig and I had it till the
year 2000 until they changedownership.
And that's how I learned thereal book stuff by doing it.
Every single week I got paidlike 50 bucks and a big bowl of
spaghetti.
It was great food and and wehad the greatest time learning
(31:07):
in there and I had I had um, oneof sandali's students, uh, I
had a great guitar player namedjay scott and another great
guitar player named chris gordon, um and matt hollingsworth.
They were my partners allthroughout that run and it was
great, I mean, and jimmy brunoused to come in.
(31:28):
Every tuesday night when weplayed, jimmy bruno would come
in and he would grab whoever'sguitar was there and he goes all
right, joe, let's play.
And then I'd have to play histempos and he goes ready One,
two, da, da, da, da, come oncomp.
And it's like I'm playing, youknow, and I'm playing bass lines
with tour and I'm comping withBruno and I'm like slow the fuck
(31:58):
down.
He'd be like pushing me.
And then, you know, we wouldget into discussions about
guitars and players.
And then one night he broughtit was me and Chris Gordon on
this run and he brings, he goes.
Jimmy comes down the steps,there's nobody in the place yet
it's about 6.30.
(32:18):
And you know it was a 7 to 10gig and me and Chris were
getting ready to play and youknow, chris is like this
21-year-old kid we're both youngand, like you know, just hungry
and Jimmy brings, he goes.
I brought people to see youtonight and in comes Pat Martino
(32:39):
and this is like 1991 or no, Iforget and Papa John DeFrancesco
, joey DeFrancesco and thatwhole crew, they all walk in and
Pat sits at the front tablewith Jimmy and like there's like
it was set up like kind ofItalian style, where it was like
(33:02):
one long table and then tableson the side.
Right, that's the restaurant.
So Pat's sitting in front andso Chris is in the back with me
and Chris goes.
I can't play, I'm like justshut up and play.
We played our set and Pat, Itell this story a lot.
(33:28):
This is really funny, greg,pat's sitting there and watching
me and watching Chris and weget done playing and Pat's
drinking wine, okay, and Jimmy'sreading the newspaper over Pat
and Jimmy's listening to whatPat and Pat and I sit down and I
go.
(33:48):
You know, pat, this is reallyan honor having you here.
He goes well and Pat talkedlike this.
Well, joe, you know, and I saidto him I said you know, because
I don't really feel like I'm alegit jazz player and, by the
way, I still don't.
By the way, you know, I'm arock and roll player that you
(34:11):
know learned the real book stuff, right, the music.
And he goes well, joe, let metell you your playing is jazz,
because jazz is a reflection ofyour personality and how you
emote your music in a feeling.
(34:34):
And Jimmy's standing over Patand Pat gets done this sentence
and there's a long pause andJimmy takes the newspaper, hits
him over the head and goes shutup head and go shut up.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
That's quite humorous .
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Yeah, it was really crazy man.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Well, talk about a little bit of that Philly jazz
royalty stuff, because you knowyou had Dennis Sandoli.
My whole college curriculumthat my guy used was basically
he used guitar lore by DennisSandoli as the basis of the
curriculum and Sandoli taughtPat Martino and John Coltrane
(35:22):
took lessons from Sandoli interms of theory and so on and so
forth.
Did you ever encounter Sandoli?
Did you ever take any lessonsfrom him or anything like that?
Speaker 2 (35:33):
No, but I got to be good friends with him.
Okay, there was this guitarplayer named John who was one of
the grotto partners that I hadand he knew Dennis because he
studied with Dennis.
Dennis wanted to sell hisD'Angelico because he had a
(35:56):
19-year-old daughter and Denniswas 82.
So his daughter he was payingfor her college tuition, so he
needed to sell his DA.
So John and I met with Dennisand, um, you know, uh, john knew
(36:24):
this guitar dealer but we metat Pina's, which is an Italian
restaurant in Roxborough whereDennis lived.
He lived in Roxborough at thistime in a little apartment, so I
(36:44):
had this girlfriend back thenand Dennis loved young girls and
he loved my girlfriend.
Dennis loved young girls and heloved my girlfriend.
So he said let's go to dinner,you bring her with, you Bring
her.
So we would sit down at dinnerand we did this for a whole
(37:08):
summer.
We would go every Sunday, wewould go to penis and I would
pick Dennis up and my girlfriendwould be with me and and John
would be with me too, and wewould sit and order a bowl of
spaghetti and Dennis told me allabout Coltrane.
I'm like, what was it like?
He said well, you know, he saidJohn, like he said, well, you
(37:36):
know, he said John, john wantedto, um, wanted to keep playing
in the higher register on histenor saxophone.
I'm like, yeah, well, I mean,he said you know, and, and I so
I told John.
I said, john, you need to goout and buy a soprano saxophone.
And so it was dennis who gotjohn to buy a soprano.
And of course, my favoritethings is, you know, one of the
(38:00):
biggest, uh, I'll say the mostfamous of coltrane's.
I'll call them hits, right, Imean really this if you study
like Giant Steps, giant Steps issuch a great study, I've played
it and I'm still trying to playit at, like you know, or 180.
(38:21):
Like, I'm not going to play itat 240.
You know, I'm just not Rightand play 16th notes at 240.
(38:42):
No, but, but you know that thatDennis told me all about.
You know John's addiction andJohn was very shy around Dennis
when, when John was was usingand Dennis knew him when he was
using too, got it.
So yeah, the other Philly thing, like I'm good friends with
(39:05):
Michael Pedison, who's anamazing tenor saxophonist.
And of course the other lineageis the Brecker brothers.
You know they're both fromGermantown.
Okay, and Michael Brecker andPedersen were best friends.
They were great friends.
And Brecker actually said youknow, michael, I took a lot from
(39:32):
what you did and applied it towhat I do.
And Pedersen, I'm doing anotherrecord that's in the infancy
right now, but it's going to becalled Philadelphia and I've got
Jimmy producing it.
We're going to get Randy on it,randy Brecker, of course we
(39:53):
can't get Michael passed away,but Jeff's going to play,
lorber's going to play,patterson's going to play on it.
And then there's a whole lineageof Philadelphia bass players
that people don't know about,and I'll mention their names.
There's Steve Beskron, afantastic electric and upright
(40:14):
player who played with RayCharles.
There's also Chico Huff, anincredible bass player who
played I think he did some stuffwith James Taylor early on.
Then there's Mike Boone, whofrequents Smalls in New York
(40:36):
City.
If you know, smalls, it's afamous jazz band Right, all
those in New York.
And then there's guys likeKevin McConnell, who's a great
upright player, and there's aguy named Glenn Marazazzo, who's
a great bass player, and then,um, you know, there's also um
(40:57):
bruce kaminsky, who developedthe kid bass that a lot of bass
players are using.
It's this, this electric basson a uh, on a tripod sure yep
and upright and he's a great.
So there's all this lineage ofPhiladelphia and I apologize if
I'm missing anybody, but thoseplayers I know personally and
(41:19):
you know just just great bassplayers, so.
And then there's the hornplayers, you know there's.
There's the Brecker brothers,there's Andy Schnitzer's from
Philadelphia, and you know Icould go on and on, and there's
(41:43):
the Schnitzer's fromPhiladelphia, and you know I
could go on and on, and there'sa fantastic pianist's, also a
Philadelphia cat, who playskeyboards.
You know, and I have them onthe Bootsy record.
You know I did that in 2020with With those guys, when I met
(42:04):
Billy Sheehan.
I met Billy Sheehan, I playedNAMM in 2020 and Roto Sound did
this thing and I played withBilly Sheehan and I asked Billy
to be on the record.
So, and Anil and all those guysthat I just mentioned, they're
on that record too.
By the way, none of my recordsare released yet because I'm
(42:26):
still waiting for Bootsy andDistribution and all this other
stuff.
I understand it.
We're trying to make thingshappen, but you know what I'm
talking about, you know.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
So what do you think about?
What do you think it is aboutPhilly?
I mean, obviously it's a.
It's a sizable populationcenter, so there would be talent
, but there's, you know.
But there needs to be more thanthis.
So was there a pretty robustscene in terms of people who
could stay local and make aliving, or is it like most
places now, where that'sbecoming increasingly more
difficult?
(42:58):
But at one time, was it a placewhere that was a bona fide way
to go about making a living wasjust staying local and being
able to play a variety of gigsand do the deed?
Speaker 2 (43:11):
Okay, so we'll talk about that.
Let's talk about that.
When you are a working musicianlike me, who you know, I mean I
have a little notoriety becauseI, you know, I do all guitar
(43:32):
network Bonamassa's thing.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
Right.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
And you know, actually it was partly due to my
relationship with all guitarnetwork and Bonamassa that I got
this big feature in VintageGuitar Magazine a couple of
years ago with Joe Bonamassa butif you're like me, who's
(43:56):
relatively unknown, and allthese great players in Philly.
There's always the corporatewedding scene.
Sure, I did that for years andyears and years because you know
, on a private gig you can makeyour.
That's kind of like themainstay of your money, sure.
(44:17):
And then other stuff you fillin.
You fill in with studio work,you fill in with students, you
fill in with doing a bar gigonce in a while, you fill in
doing a country club gig and thescene for making original music
and making money at it.
Nah, that, really, if you'regonna have a house and and a
(44:39):
mortgage and, and you know, payyour car payment and this, and
that you got to do a diverseamount of things.
I mean I tour with two tributebands I'll play.
Today I'm playing a six to nine.
I'm doing a corporate eventwhere I'll take my Martin D28,
(44:59):
take my little crate amp thathas like two plugs for my mic
and one for my guitar and go andsing a bunch of stuff for three
hours and make real money.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
Right.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
So can you make money as an artist?
That's your question.
I would think it's very, verydifficult.
If you're the Jimmy Haslips andthe Jeff Lorbers of the world,
yeah, you can get a good shedtour in the summer and I'm
trying, I'm trying to do some ofthat.
(45:37):
You know, that's what I did inDallas.
I have a couple of promoterswhere I've done well in Texas.
I do well at certain rooms inNew York.
I do well in Connecticut, butit's hard, yeah, it's hard, it's
hard to do.
You know, it's like nice, nicepeople will always take you in,
(45:58):
you know, and promote you andhelp you.
Like you like you're giving methis opportunity to be on this
podcast, so this is anopportunity for me to like okay,
I branch out a little bit more.
More people get to know who Iam, and you know, and we're all
(46:19):
trying to help each other.
I met Gary Hoey.
I met Gary Hoey in 2014,.
Right, and I'm like coming toTexas for the first time because
of a crazy gig that I had thatthat I met Jimmy Wallace on.
So I go to Texas Dallasinternational bar festival.
I'm like I knew Gary Hoeybecause he did Hocus Pocus and
(46:42):
like I was a fan, I'm a huge fanof this guy.
He meets me, he hears me playand he goes hey man, come on,
come on on my stage, let's playRight.
And I'm like, oh, and it's GaryHowie doing this.
It's like I'm like, well,you're going to wait, you're
going to ask me up.
He goes yeah, you're coming upto play with me.
And I'm like, wow.
(47:05):
Like.
No, I don't know any like bigrock star, I would ever do that.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
Wow, like no, I don't know any like big rock star
would ever do that.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
True, that's the type of cat he is Like.
He he's more than just likethis incredible guitar player.
He's an incredible human beingand he translates that through
his music.
You could see that this guy'sreal, you know.
And so, like we're all just, Imean, you know, the point I'm
trying to make is we're alltrying to help each other.
(47:32):
You know, if I can, if I canhelp somebody, um, uh, get a gig
or or do something, I'm, I'mall about it, man, because it'll
come back and and reflect on me, you know absolutely that's.
That's kind of really what I'mabout, you know.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
Now, had you, have you ever moved away from Philly
and lived other places?
Or just you've gone and giggedother places, obviously, but any
over the years?
Have you ever contemplatedgoing elsewhere?
Speaker 2 (48:03):
Well, I was in New York for a little while, but
outside of that, no, justPhiladelphia.
If I were to go someplace else,I love california, so I, I
would love to be.
I would love to be in la um,just because I like the weather
and and I'm out there now, but,um, I you know I love the east
(48:25):
coast yeah I, I, you know, I, Ilove where I am.
There's such a great wealth ofplayers here and of course now,
as you know, probably you'reyou're feeling the same way.
I'm just rooted here.
All my friends are here, likethere, there's just such a great
wealth of great guitar players,great, uh, musicians here, the
(48:46):
guitar players here, I, I canname people like Kevin Hansen,
which nobody knows, incredibleguitar player.
This guy, greg Davis, who'shere, incredible guitar player,
jimmy Bruno, who's here.
There's all these great players.
There's another guy that I playwith we do this duo thing
(49:09):
called Vahe Sarkeesian.
He's a great guitar player.
Chris Gordon's a great guitarplayer.
I can go on and on and on.
There's many, many greatguitarists here and we all
respect and help each other.
Everybody here that I know isnot all about themselves.
(49:31):
Oh man, it's, it's not.
I guess I'm too old for that nowI understand maybe I'm just too
old for it and like, my thingnow is just like you know, I
just want to play music and andplay with people that I love and
make music with people that Ireally love.
You know, like I did, I've donemusic with everybody I've done.
(49:54):
You know I was MichaelCimbello's musical director.
You know I've played withBootsy Collins.
I did three records with him.
You know, the last record I didwith him was Worldwide Funk
with Eric Gales and Bucketheadwere on that too, wild Brian,
(50:16):
but you know all those butBootsy was.
He was another guy that wasreally really good to me.
I was playing at NAMM.
I was playing at NAMM andBernie Worrell watched me play
and said, hey, bootsy, you gotto see this white kid play
guitar, come over here.
So, you know, and I met Bootsythat day and Bootsy said, hey,
(50:37):
man, let's, let's start doingstuff.
I'm like, yeah, right, ok.
Well, you're Bootsy Collins.
Yeah, ok, right, right.
I gave him my email and likeTwo days later, you know, I had
a track and an email hey, joe,it's Bootsy, what can you do
with this?
That's wild Two days later.
I mean, you know, you know, youknow NAMM.
(51:00):
I met a lot of people at NAMM.
Speaker 1 (51:02):
Sure, and that doesn't happen to your point.
I mean, you meet a lot ofpeople and a lot of people say a
lot of things, and then everynow and again they follow up and
you're like I, I can't believethat just happened you like all
the stuff you've done since I'veknown you.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
I met you like maybe eight years ago and you know,
and I I mean I knew you weregreat back then.
I remember the first time thatI really met you was across from
the show when you and I we wereall staying at the Hilton
Garden Inn.
Remember that year?
Speaker 1 (51:37):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 2 (51:38):
Yeah, and you and I were eating breakfast and I had
known about you, but I hadn'treally seen you play yet.
But I remember we were sittingdown and then you said, all
right, really seen you play yet,and but but I remember we were
sitting down and then you said,all right, it's time to go.
And then you stood up and I'mlike, oh my God, this guy's big
(52:01):
and like my jaws hit the groundand I'm like, oh my God, man, I
got to talk to this guy more.
Some of his stuff know.
But, um, yeah, yeah, we meet alot of people at NAMM.
That's how I met Bootsy.
It's how I met.
I met Santana at NAMM, um, andthat was through Andy Timmons
(52:22):
okay, sure, andy yeah.
So, andy, um, andy watched meplay and he, he, oh, yeah, man,
you're a great player, and allthis.
And, and I was playing in thebooth and Santana walked by and
I didn't see him and he, he, Iwas playing and he grabbed my
(52:42):
hand and shook my hand and I'mlike who is this Jake of my hand
?
I look up and it's CarlosSantana Wild.
And so he, he walks.
It's Carlos Santana Wild, andso he walks to the Mesa booth
right, which was right past woodviolins at that time.
If you remember, the Mesa booththat year was the cafeteria,
(53:02):
was right in front of me.
I was playing for the AndreaFender and we were demoing Wawa
pedals Snarling Dog's Wawapedals.
Speaker 1 (53:13):
Snarling Dog.
I remember that.
Speaker 2 (53:16):
I would just play the tracks.
So Carlos went into the Mesabooth and there was this long
line of people and Andy Timmonssaid come on, come on, I'm going
to get you to meet Carlos.
And then that's how I metCarlos Santana that year Wild
yeah.
And he gave me a quote for mywebsite.
That's cool.
Quote Carlos and he goes uh,yeah, and he stood there and he
(53:39):
goes Joe, keep doing what you'redoing.
Speaker 1 (53:46):
We need you Awesome, yeah, awesome.
Well, listen, my friend.
Thank you so much for spendingsome time with us.
It was great hearing yourstories.
I always enjoy them immensely.
I encourage people to check outyour stuff, to go to your
website, which is just Joe mass.
Speaker 2 (54:03):
Yeah, joe masscom.
Or or just go to Facebook orInstagram.
It's just Joe mass and Joe Mass94, les Paul.
You can find that at Instagramand then just Joe Mass on
Facebook and TikTok.
It'll go to everything Perfect.
Speaker 1 (54:22):
Yeah Well, listen, you have a good one.
Say hello to Jimmy Bruno for me, and also say hello to old
Danny Gold.
Speaker 2 (54:28):
I will Love you, Greg .
Speaker 1 (54:30):
Likewise, my friend.
It was a pleasure, Great seeingyou.
Great seeing you too.
Have a good one.
We'll talk to you soon.
See you later.
Bye-bye, Folks.
Thanks so much for tuning in.
We certainly do appreciate youstopping by and partaking in the
most savory chewable gristlethis side of Cucamonga.
Gregory Cock, looking forwardto seeing you again next week,
(54:56):
even though I won't actually seeyou, but I'll sense your
presence.
Lo and behold, ladies and gentlemen, season five of
Chewing the Gristle is upon us.
It's been a little while, folks, but it's going to be worth the
wait.
We're going to be featuring alot of convivial conversations
with various musical potentates,most of which you've heard of.
Some are going to be some newdiscoveries.
That's why I'm here to bringforth the chewable gristle
(00:29):
matter to you via theinformation superhighway,
brought to you, of course, byour friends at Wildwood Guitars
in beautiful Louisville,colorado, and our friends at
Fishman Transducers of beautifulAndover, massachusetts.
Both I've had greatlongstanding relationships with,
and continue to do so, andwe're very grateful for their
continued support in thisendeavor of giving you the
(00:51):
highest quality and chewablegristle possible.
Now, without any further ado,folks, let's get down and dirty
with some Chewing the GristleSeason 5.
Buckle up, buckle up.
This week on Chewing the Gristle, journeyman musician Joe Mass.
Whether it be jazz or fusion orrock and roll, he's a
(01:11):
multi-instrumentalist guitarplayer extraordinaire.
Known him for many years, gotgreat stories.
He's even doing a new youngtribute Right now that's selling
out all over the place.
A majestic cat, joe Mass.
This week on Chewing theGristle.
Ladies and gentlemen, boys andgirls, we convene once again
(01:37):
around the Gristle Campfire forconvivial guitar fellowship here
on Chewing the Gristle beamingin from beautiful Philadelphia,
pennsylvania, my buddy Joe Mass,guitar player, extraordinaire,
really, multi-instrumentalist.
His dossier is so deep, fromplaying with pop stars, jazz
(02:01):
heavyweights he's done it all.
Pop stars, jazz heavyweights,he's done it all.
He plays a mean keyboard, heplays sax, he plays all kinds of
stuff, but he's a guitarplaying fiend.
And on top of that he's one ofthe foremost neil young
impersonators to be found and isselling out theaters all over
the damn place.
Doing that, joe?
How the hell are you?
Speaker 2 (02:22):
I'm good.
Good, gregory, how are you?
Speaker 1 (02:24):
I'm doing well, thank you.
We've had a bit of rain here,Joe.
It's been kind of a every dayhas been pummeled with storms
and rain.
We had a little water in thebasement but figured out the
problem and we should be goodgoing forward.
Other than that, I'm good.
How are you doing?
Speaker 2 (02:42):
I'm good and there's no rain in the orange room,
correct?
Speaker 1 (02:46):
That is correct.
The orange room is sufficientlyprotected from the elements,
which is good, which is a goodthing.
So what are you doing today?
What's the latest?
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Okay, well, latest today is, you know, I've been
working on a bunch of stuff andactually, you know, today I have
a little gig outside of NewJersey and I'll be going to that
around five o'clock.
But other than that, just youknow, wake up every day,
(03:20):
practice, write, and we do whatwe do, don't we?
Speaker 1 (03:25):
We do indeed.
Now I just saw you down inDallas and you had done a set
with some jazz heavyweights.
Why don't you tell us whattranspired and who it was with,
and all of that kind of stuff?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Well, I have a good friend, a promoter named John
Hill, and John Hill, a couple ofyears ago, when I was recording
my record that I signed withBoots Hill Records back in 2020,
that's a Bootsy Collins' label,yes.
So John called up his friend,jimmy Haslip, in LA and he said
(04:05):
you know, you should, you shouldmeet this guitar player, joe
Mass.
So I talked with Jimmy and webegan you know a relationship.
He played on the what I callthe Bootsy record, right.
And then Jimmy said you know,I'd love to do a jazz record
(04:27):
with you.
Would you be interested in that?
And I said, uh, yeah.
And um, so I wrote I had like 12compositions and I sent him
those and he picked like sevenof them and we started working
(04:48):
on that and, um, of course hegot Jeff Lorber involved with it
and a bunch of other people.
Um, so basically I recorded tworecords Jimmy's on the Bootsy
record and then Jimmy actuallyproduced and got everybody on it
.
I mean there's Jimmy Haslip,randy Brecker plays trumpet,
(05:10):
jeff Lorber, andy Schnitzer fromthe Rolling Stones plays some
saxophone, mike Patterson, whowas with Dave Brubeck and he's a
Philadelphia cat playedsaxophone, ralph Humphries from
Zappa's band oh yeah Playeddrums.
Dave Weckl played some drumsand then Scott Kinsey was really
the guy who did everything.
(05:31):
So I'm just like this littleguy from Philly and Jimmy got
all his friends on it.
Thank you, jimmy.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
And, of course, jimmy Haslip, famous from the Yellow
Jackets, for those of you whomay not recognize that name, if
there are some of those peopleout there, but that's his
lineage.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
So it came time to do Dallas and Jimmy Wallace asked
me to come and play.
And I asked Jimmy and Jeff andmy cousin Eric Scatter, reggie,
he's the drummer and and we wedid, dallas and you and I had
dinner and breakfast and we allhung out.
(06:13):
We did, indeed it was.
It was just a fab, fabuloustime.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Fabulous time, indeed .
Another kind of small worldmoment is the Fender rep who I
used to travel with quite a bitback in the day.
Dan Gold is the bass player inyour Neil Young outfit as well.
It's a small world, is what itis.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Yes, it's a very small world.
Yeah, danny actually put theband together.
The way it came together, gregis.
I had to do the song Old manfor a Wedding.
Okay, I went into Danny's shopto buy some strings.
(06:58):
He has a small shop calledDanny's Guitar Shop in Narberth,
pennsylvania.
Went into Danny's shop and Isaid do you know the song Old
man?
And he said no, no, you know.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
We know.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Dan and Danny said yeah.
I said, well, you know, can youlike see if this is right?
So I played Old man and he said, you know, you kind of you
sound like Neil Young a littlebit when you sing and kind of
look like the younger version ofNeil Young.
So maybe we could do a tributeband and make some money.
(07:37):
And of course you know me,being the Philadelphia
journeyman, that I am like justtrying to keep going and make a
living.
I said, yeah, I could do that.
I only knew old man and reallyone other song by Neil Young.
And I learned, I learned hisbook and it's a great book and
(07:57):
we go out and we're booked bythis agency called Blue Raven
Entertainment and we, we playall place and yeah, it's a lot
of fun and I get to do NeilYoung's catalog.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
And there are some great tunes.
I'm an old Neil Young fan.
As a matter of fact, latelyI've been enjoying riffing on
the epic three chords of Cortezthe Killer.
It is just an epic jam.
Do you guys do that one?
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Actually we don't, and I'll tell you why.
It's because, like we do downby the river, oh yeah, we l girl
in the sand, and those twosongs, we, we, we stretch out
and we, we jam on those okay butcortez the killer.
We get a lot of requests forthat actually, but we don't do
that song.
But I recently went to see NeilYoung on May 12th.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
And he opened up with that.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
And he opened with it and it was just epic.
I mean, you know the thingabout his guitar playing.
People ask me well, when itcomes to Neil Young's guitar
playing, you don't play NeilYoung's riffs, you do kind of
(09:12):
your own thing.
And I'm more of a fusion player.
I like blues, I like fusion.
I delve into the metal side ofthings too, but if I were to say
what I am, I'm more of a jazzfusion guy.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Right.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Leaning on the word fusion more than leaning on the
word jazz.
So I tend to think about, like,if Neil Young came to a show of
mine, would would he want me toplay all of his guitar riffs
note for note?
And I would have to say theanswer would probably be no,
(09:55):
right, he like me to stretch outand do my own thing.
That's not to say that theaudience like I get some
audience that that, uh, you know, they love what I do, and then
you get a person or two that'llsay, well, you're not really
playing neil young's like guitarriffs yeah, there'll always be
a few of those people thatwanted exactly a record, but
(10:15):
that's, but that's I, but I, Ising all the songs authentically
and we don't change keys, we doeverything in the original key
and I'm naturally, as a singer,a lyric tenor, so I can sing all
that stuff.
But you know certainly not how.
You know, when I grew up, uh,my mother, my mother was a
(10:38):
classical pianist.
That's what she was.
My father's family were allsingers and so when my family
would get together, everybodywould come over and and like my
mother be playing the piano, andI was like a little baby I
thought everybody played.
So when she came over thatdidn't play, I would bring them
(10:59):
to the piano and like I wouldsay, you know play.
And well, we don't play.
It was odd to me, I'd startcrying.
That's funny.
In my grandmother's basementthere was a Vox Jaguar organ and
a Vox amp.
My grandmother had a Vox Jaguarorgan and my uncle Joe.
(11:23):
He lived in Birmingham, he waspart of the Muscle Shoals string
section, so he played on allthose records and I remember him
telling me once when I waslittle.
He said you know the Beatles'Long and Winding Road, I'm on
that.
I'm like what he goes.
(11:45):
Yeah, he.
He said I want to tell yousomething.
He said phil specter when he hedidn't want to record anything
in england when it came to theorchestration, he recorded it
all at muscle shawls.
Ah, no, kidding, yeah.
So I found that I'm like I mean, I quite didn't understand what
he's talking about then, butlike later, like you know, when
(12:09):
he passed away, I got hispractice violin it's a Robert
Doling violin made in the early20s and and you know that violin
that sat in my curio for yearsand then one day I walked by it
and it was like all right, it'stime to play.
So as an adult I started takingviolin lessons and you know, it
(12:32):
was kind of like.
It's kind of like you know, youmentioned this early in the
show Like I play saxophone, Iplay violin, I play piano, but
the two instruments that I feellike I'm kind of versed on are
guitar first and piano.
I call myself a good actor.
I'm a good actor.
(12:56):
I can make you think I'm good.
Oh, yeah, he's good.
But you know, it's kind of anact.
That's what I, because I workwith some of the most amazing
saxophonists and like, am I agreat saxophonist?
No, but what I've done on myrecords, like the record I made
(13:17):
with Jimmy, the jazz record.
I did play the melodies.
I played all the melodies.
I doubled the melodies onsaxophone that I play on guitar.
So I did do that.
But when it came time to do thesolos, I left it up to Mike
Pedison, who played with DaveBrubeck and Andy Schnitzer you
know what I mean and Bob Mincer.
(13:39):
So that was, they're the guyswho I hear as the soloist when I
, when I make a record, so butyou know, I, I it's, it's.
It's pretty cool that, like youknow, I can, I can hear a
melody and like I'll, I'll, I'llplay it on the saxophone and
(14:01):
and like I'm like, yeah, thissounds like a saxophone melody,
and then I'll kind of constructthe song around that melody.
You know, and and and andthat's something like I run by
jimmy haslip.
I'll call jimmy up and I'll go.
You know, I got this melodyidea, you know, and he goes okay
, well, send it to me, you know,and then I'll send him a melody
(14:21):
and some chords and then himand Scott Kinsey Do you know who
Scott Kinsey is?
Speaker 1 (14:27):
I've heard that name, but I don't know who he is.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
He was basically the driving force behind Scott
Henderson's Tribal Tech.
Okay, all right, he was thekeyboard cat and, like Scott,
will just tear everything apartand re-harm everything.
He's a master atre-harmonization.
I mean a real master.
I've learned so much just frommaking a record with Scott.
(14:51):
Awesome, you know.
So like that's what I thinkabout my saxophone stuff and my
violin playing.
And my mother, my mother, wasgreat as a critic playing, you
know.
And my mother, my mother, wasgreat as a critic.
My mother, like when I, when Iwas learning violin as an adult,
she would sit at the piano andshe'd go, okay, well, let me
(15:11):
hear this, and I'd be, I'd beplaying like a little piece out
of I had this, this Bartok bookwith two-part inventions and
they were really good for violin, and she would play the piano
part, the violin part, and shewould turn around and she would
(15:33):
just say to me flat out, thatwas horrible, that was terrible.
She said, your vibrato isterrible and and you know you,
some of the stuff you intonate,well, but but others it's just
horrible.
And she goes before I come backto this, you have to really
work on that.
And I'd be like, ok, mom, andI'd really work on it.
(15:54):
The mom was a savage.
And then she'd say like it'spassable.
And then, like when I wouldplay the piano, she would say
and she'd be in the other roomand I'd be playing on her yamaha
piano and she'd be, she'd say,and she'd be like reading the
paper or do something else andshe'd go, stop banging on the
(16:16):
piano, don't bang on the piano.
It was like all I was like okayand and, but I, you know, okay
and and, but I, you know, that'show I learned.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
I learned from my mom too, you know.
So when did you want to startplaying guitar and what was the
impetus?
I mean, obviously music was allaround, but when?
Speaker 2 (16:39):
when was the guitar?
Like I'm going to do this Um, I, I, I guess I was 11 and um, I
had a lot of friends who playedguitar.
There was this kid named Johnnyand in Philadelphia on Saturday
morning it was like this localtalent program.
(17:00):
So he was on the talent programand him and his brothers were
playing songs and singing threepart harmony and he was 11 and
they were incredible and I'mlike, wait, that's Johnny, I
(17:23):
know him.
I got all excited and know youcan hear my Philadelphia accent.
That's all right.
Monday morning I'm getting toschool early and I'm going to
(17:44):
watch him.
He walked to school.
My mother drove me to schooland I watched him walk down the
hill into the schoolyard and Iran up to him.
I'm like I saw you on TV and hewas like, yeah, it was me and
my brother.
So I'm like you guys areamazing.
I'm like you're teaching meguitar right now.
(18:10):
It was like a Gregory Cochranmoment.
I'm like you're teaching me now.
I went to his house and and um,he had, he had an old acoustic
guitar.
I didn't have a guitar and andhe, he, he showed me um, um,
(18:30):
like a folk song, and and hishis also.
His mom was really into thebeatles so he showed me the song
and I love her okay which was adifficult song oh, yeah, no
doubt.
And but he was really diligentwith me and took the time out
and, you know, put the guitar inmy hands and that was it.
(18:54):
I was hooked, you were hooked.
That was the end of it.
And then, you know, then Ireally got into the Allman
Brothers band.
Then I really got into theAllman Brothers band.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
But earlier in that day too you were hanging out.
The roadies kind of took ashine to you from the Allman
Brothers and you got to playDickie's Rig and stuff too right
.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
You got to plug into it and it's kind of, yeah, yeah,
yeah, it was crazy, that was acrazy, crazy time.
That day.
That day turned a lot of thingsfor me.
But I mean, I you know theAllman brothers um, there's such
diversity and and there's somany genres that are connected
(19:43):
to their music.
You can study country, you canstudy jazz, you can study blues
and you can study rock and rolland it's all in their music.
I did a record with a leaderback in 2002, and he was very
influential with me doing Latinmusic.
(20:06):
The record was called Sabrosoand the leader's name was John
Alberti, and the record did well.
It went to number six on thecharts and John also loved the
Allman Brothers and we made aninstrumental version jazz Latin
(20:28):
in memory of Richard.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Reed yeah, it's a glorious selection.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
And it was interesting because John wanted
to do it, like Dickie and Dwayne, because of J-Mo they got
really interested in jazz sothey would play Coltrane records
and Miles records in the bighouse and John noted that Dickie
(21:01):
Betts was also into Miles Davis, right that you know Vicki
Betts was also into Miles Davis,right.
A trumpet play the melody of inmemory of Elizabeth Reed.
I did like this littlebeginning that was kind of more
almond brotherish, but once wegot into tune, um, you know, it
was more like an African sixthat we played in and we had
(21:27):
just an incredible array ofPhiladelphia Latino and jazz
musicians play on that record.
It was great.
And then, unfortunately, wewere going to make the second
record and John passed away.
Oh, that's too bad, but thatwas, that was great.
I mean, you know, philadelphiais full of like, really, um,
(21:52):
history of like great writers.
I mean there's, there's.
I worked for a guy named RobertHazard.
Robert Hazard wrote girls justwant to have fun.
Oh yeah, cindy Lauper hit andum, robert told me the story of
how he wrote, that he met thisgirl and this is like in the 70s
(22:15):
.
I didn't play with him untilthe mid 90s, but in the 70s he
met this girl in Delaware, thestate of Delaware, and went back
to her apartment and she had toget up and go to work in the
morning and she was having somuch fun with him, they were
(22:37):
having such a great time thenight before and she said,
listen, I'm going to leave, um,but you're free to just hang at
the apartment and just lock upwhen you go.
Just turn the bottom littleknob and it'll lock and that'll
be good and he goes, okay.
So he, he went and she had thisreally big bathtub and he went
into the bath, drew himself abath and he was thinking of the
(22:59):
song Norwegian Wood.
You know, I once had a girl.
So he was thinking of that song.
But then he just thought of herand he thought, man, girls just
want to have fun, Girls justwant to have fun five in five
(23:21):
minutes in the bathtub.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
That's so crazy.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
And and it became.
It became Cindy Lauper'sbiggest song.
Of course it went to number one, and Robert you know Robert
wrote a lot of other great songs, but that was the hit that he
wrote.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
That probably set him for life, am I right?
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Well, he called it the Magic Envelope.
Let me tell you what happened.
The Magic Envelope is a storyabout I believe it was Polygram
that she was signed to.
So the song becomes a huge hitand there's no money.
Robert's like, wait a second,I'm the writer, there's no money
(24:04):
.
So he he's calling Lenny Pizziand his Bill Ibe in Philly and
they're like well, you know,we'll make a couple of calls and
Nothing's happening.
So one day Robert goes to themailbox and there is a letter
(24:28):
which looks like a letter fromPolygram Records and he opens it
up and it's a check for 750 000.
And that was magic envelope.
I I'm not sure exactly of ofthe amount, but it was somewhere
in that neighborhood.
And, and you know, that's when,when you could sell 5, 10
(24:52):
million records and you wrotethe song.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Today, of course, you know, with streaming, you know
you get pennies on the dollar.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
That would be, you know, $500.
Or $0.50.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Exactly, exactly.
We interrupt this regularlyscheduled Gristle Infested
conversation to give a specialshout out to our friends at
Fishman Transducers.
Exactly, exactly, bringing theheat in the shadow of the Rocky
Mountains.
Was he able to transform?
I would imagine he was smartwith his dough and managed to
(25:40):
put that to good use.
Or was he a pirate?
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (25:43):
very smart, Very smart guy.
I learned a lot from him too.
I played in his band for anumber of years and we actually
he would come up from florida.
He owned two um antique storesa place in the adirondacks and a
place in florida andunfortunately, robert also
passed away.
(26:03):
Young um and and, but I stilltalk to um his, his wife and his
children.
So I know his son's a guitarplayer too, Nice, but you know
that's part of Philly's history.
In fact, I'm going to havelunch tomorrow with Jimmy Bruno
(26:26):
oh you are?
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Yeah, well, say hello to him.
I haven't seen him in years.
I used to see him at NAMM showswhen I was.
I'd be there for Fender and hewas there with I can't remember
who it was.
Fender was doing a jazz guitarfor a while and he was the guy
Benedetto.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Yeah, he was a Benedetto guy, yeah.
Yeah exactly Eastman guitars,those are nice.
Went to launch a couple years acouple months ago actually, not
even a month ago and we wentback to his house.
He has this little Hendricksonamp and I mean, you know he's
such a great player I learned,like my jazz thing.
(27:09):
Like I had this friend whostudied with Pat Martino.
That is back in 1990.
And he came into this musicstore where I was kind of
playing around and I was, youknow, just like this rock kid
and he was this rock kid who wasstudying with Pat Martino.
(27:31):
I'm like, man, you're reallygood man.
He goes yeah, you're good too.
Why don't we get together, likelike learn some real book stuff
?
And I'm like, yeah, man, thatsounds great.
So I would go to his houseevery day, we would practice the
real book.
And about six months later Mattsaid to me his name was Matthew.
(27:51):
He said we're going to go get agig now.
I'm like, ok, he goes, meet mehere Tuesday night six o'clock.
I'm like, ok, so we drive intoPhiladelphia, we go to this
place called JJ's Grotto andMatt walks in dressed in a suit.
(28:12):
I'm dressed in jeans.
I'm like, what am I supposed todo?
He goes just shut up and let metake the lead here.
I'm like okay.
And so Matt walks, walks in, andthe um, one of the owners.
This was the grotto.
It was downstairs on 21stStreet in Philadelphia and it's
(28:33):
the place where Jimmy Bruno madehistory.
I mean, that's when Jimmy cameback from LA to Philadelphia
that's where he played was theGrotto Got it the JJ Grotto.
So Matt knew that it was a jazzlike a famous Philadelphia jazz
room.
And so Matt walked in there andRicky and Jack owned it.
(28:54):
So Jack greeted Matt at thedoor, said would you guys like a
table?
And Matt said and there was twokids playing jazz.
It was a Tuesday night and theyhad two kids from UARPS playing
jazz.
And Matt said just to Jack hesaid, listen, we're here to get
(29:15):
their gig.
Jack, what he goes.
Yeah, we're a lot better thanthem and we're going to bring
people in here.
And I was horrified.
I was like what?
Oh my God, he goes.
Yeah, try us out.
And Jack, ricky, came over.
(29:37):
And now Jack and Ricky arelooking at Matt like he's nuts.
And Jack says to Matt he goesall right, big shot, you're on,
these guys are off next week.
Anyway, you come in here withhim or whoever else you're going
to bring in here and you guysplay.
So we played the next Tuesdaynight and we brought a ton of
(30:00):
our friends 1990, and everybodycame in and Matt was a great
player and we really honed.
We were playing stuff likethere will never be another.
You, my, you know my favoritethings, my one and only love um,
all the things you are.
We play all these standards andwe played them as a duo and
(30:24):
it's and, and Jack came up to toMatt at the end of the gig and
he goes all right, you guys gotthe gig.
Now I had that gig for 10 years.
Matt got married like threeyears later and had a little
baby and so he left the gig.
(30:45):
But then I had other partnersin the gig and I had it till the
year 2000 until they changedownership.
And that's how I learned thereal book stuff by doing it.
Every single week I got paidlike 50 bucks and a big bowl of
spaghetti.
It was great food and and wehad the greatest time learning
(31:07):
in there and I had I had um, oneof sandali's students, uh, I
had a great guitar player namedjay scott and another great
guitar player named chris gordon, um and matt hollingsworth.
They were my partners allthroughout that run and it was
great, I mean, and jimmy brunoused to come in.
(31:28):
Every tuesday night when weplayed, jimmy bruno would come
in and he would grab whoever'sguitar was there and he goes all
right, joe, let's play.
And then I'd have to play histempos and he goes ready One,
two, da, da, da, da, come oncomp.
And it's like I'm playing, youknow, and I'm playing bass lines
with tour and I'm comping withBruno and I'm like slow the fuck
(31:58):
down.
He'd be like pushing me.
And then, you know, we wouldget into discussions about
guitars and players.
And then one night he broughtit was me and Chris Gordon on
this run and he brings, he goes.
Jimmy comes down the steps,there's nobody in the place yet
it's about 6.30.
(32:18):
And you know it was a 7 to 10gig and me and Chris were
getting ready to play and youknow, chris is like this
21-year-old kid we're both youngand, like you know, just hungry
and Jimmy brings, he goes.
I brought people to see youtonight and in comes Pat Martino
(32:39):
and this is like 1991 or no, Iforget and Papa John DeFrancesco
, joey DeFrancesco and thatwhole crew, they all walk in and
Pat sits at the front tablewith Jimmy and like there's like
it was set up like kind ofItalian style, where it was like
(33:02):
one long table and then tableson the side.
Right, that's the restaurant.
So Pat's sitting in front andso Chris is in the back with me
and Chris goes.
I can't play, I'm like justshut up and play.
We played our set and Pat, Itell this story a lot.
(33:28):
This is really funny, greg,pat's sitting there and watching
me and watching Chris and weget done playing and Pat's
drinking wine, okay, and Jimmy'sreading the newspaper over Pat
and Jimmy's listening to whatPat and Pat and I sit down and I
go.
(33:48):
You know, pat, this is reallyan honor having you here.
He goes well and Pat talkedlike this.
Well, joe, you know, and I saidto him I said you know, because
I don't really feel like I'm alegit jazz player and, by the
way, I still don't.
By the way, you know, I'm arock and roll player that you
(34:11):
know learned the real book stuff, right, the music.
And he goes well, joe, let metell you your playing is jazz,
because jazz is a reflection ofyour personality and how you
emote your music in a feeling.
(34:34):
And Jimmy's standing over Patand Pat gets done this sentence
and there's a long pause andJimmy takes the newspaper, hits
him over the head and goes shutup head and go shut up.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
That's quite humorous .
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Yeah, it was really crazy man.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Well, talk about a little bit of that Philly jazz
royalty stuff, because you knowyou had Dennis Sandoli.
My whole college curriculumthat my guy used was basically
he used guitar lore by DennisSandoli as the basis of the
curriculum and Sandoli taughtPat Martino and John Coltrane
(35:22):
took lessons from Sandoli interms of theory and so on and so
forth.
Did you ever encounter Sandoli?
Did you ever take any lessonsfrom him or anything like that?
Speaker 2 (35:33):
No, but I got to be good friends with him.
Okay, there was this guitarplayer named John who was one of
the grotto partners that I hadand he knew Dennis because he
studied with Dennis.
Dennis wanted to sell hisD'Angelico because he had a
(35:56):
19-year-old daughter and Denniswas 82.
So his daughter he was payingfor her college tuition, so he
needed to sell his DA.
So John and I met with Dennisand, um, you know, uh, john knew
(36:24):
this guitar dealer but we metat Pina's, which is an Italian
restaurant in Roxborough whereDennis lived.
He lived in Roxborough at thistime in a little apartment, so I
(36:44):
had this girlfriend back thenand Dennis loved young girls and
he loved my girlfriend.
Dennis loved young girls and heloved my girlfriend.
So he said let's go to dinner,you bring her with, you Bring
her.
So we would sit down at dinnerand we did this for a whole
(37:08):
summer.
We would go every Sunday, wewould go to penis and I would
pick Dennis up and my girlfriendwould be with me and and John
would be with me too, and wewould sit and order a bowl of
spaghetti and Dennis told me allabout Coltrane.
I'm like, what was it like?
He said well, you know, he saidJohn, like he said, well, you
(37:36):
know, he said John, john wantedto, um, wanted to keep playing
in the higher register on histenor saxophone.
I'm like, yeah, well, I mean,he said you know, and, and I so
I told John.
I said, john, you need to goout and buy a soprano saxophone.
And so it was dennis who gotjohn to buy a soprano.
And of course, my favoritethings is, you know, one of the
(38:00):
biggest, uh, I'll say the mostfamous of coltrane's.
I'll call them hits, right, Imean really this if you study
like Giant Steps, giant Steps issuch a great study, I've played
it and I'm still trying to playit at, like you know, or 180.
(38:21):
Like, I'm not going to play itat 240.
You know, I'm just not Rightand play 16th notes at 240.
(38:42):
No, but, but you know that thatDennis told me all about.
You know John's addiction andJohn was very shy around Dennis
when, when John was was usingand Dennis knew him when he was
using too, got it.
So yeah, the other Philly thing, like I'm good friends with
(39:05):
Michael Pedison, who's anamazing tenor saxophonist.
And of course the other lineageis the Brecker brothers.
You know they're both fromGermantown.
Okay, and Michael Brecker andPedersen were best friends.
They were great friends.
And Brecker actually said youknow, michael, I took a lot from
(39:32):
what you did and applied it towhat I do.
And Pedersen, I'm doing anotherrecord that's in the infancy
right now, but it's going to becalled Philadelphia and I've got
Jimmy producing it.
We're going to get Randy on it,randy Brecker, of course we
(39:53):
can't get Michael passed away,but Jeff's going to play,
lorber's going to play,patterson's going to play on it.
And then there's a whole lineageof Philadelphia bass players
that people don't know about,and I'll mention their names.
There's Steve Beskron, afantastic electric and upright
(40:14):
player who played with RayCharles.
There's also Chico Huff, anincredible bass player who
played I think he did some stuffwith James Taylor early on.
Then there's Mike Boone, whofrequents Smalls in New York
(40:36):
City.
If you know, smalls, it's afamous jazz band Right, all
those in New York.
And then there's guys likeKevin McConnell, who's a great
upright player, and there's aguy named Glenn Marazazzo, who's
a great bass player, and then,um, you know, there's also um
(40:57):
bruce kaminsky, who developedthe kid bass that a lot of bass
players are using.
It's this, this electric basson a uh, on a tripod sure yep
and upright and he's a great.
So there's all this lineage ofPhiladelphia and I apologize if
I'm missing anybody, but thoseplayers I know personally and
(41:19):
you know just just great bassplayers, so.
And then there's the hornplayers, you know there's.
There's the Brecker brothers,there's Andy Schnitzer's from
Philadelphia, and you know Icould go on and on, and there's
(41:43):
the Schnitzer's fromPhiladelphia, and you know I
could go on and on, and there'sa fantastic pianist's, also a
Philadelphia cat, who playskeyboards.
You know, and I have them onthe Bootsy record.
You know I did that in 2020with With those guys, when I met
(42:04):
Billy Sheehan.
I met Billy Sheehan, I playedNAMM in 2020 and Roto Sound did
this thing and I played withBilly Sheehan and I asked Billy
to be on the record.
So, and Anil and all those guysthat I just mentioned, they're
on that record too.
By the way, none of my recordsare released yet because I'm
(42:26):
still waiting for Bootsy andDistribution and all this other
stuff.
I understand it.
We're trying to make thingshappen, but you know what I'm
talking about, you know.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
So what do you think about?
What do you think it is aboutPhilly?
I mean, obviously it's a.
It's a sizable populationcenter, so there would be talent
, but there's, you know.
But there needs to be more thanthis.
So was there a pretty robustscene in terms of people who
could stay local and make aliving, or is it like most
places now, where that'sbecoming increasingly more
difficult?
(42:58):
But at one time, was it a placewhere that was a bona fide way
to go about making a living wasjust staying local and being
able to play a variety of gigsand do the deed?
Speaker 2 (43:11):
Okay, so we'll talk about that.
Let's talk about that.
When you are a working musicianlike me, who you know, I mean I
have a little notoriety becauseI, you know, I do all guitar
(43:32):
network Bonamassa's thing.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
Right.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
And you know, actually it was partly due to my
relationship with all guitarnetwork and Bonamassa that I got
this big feature in VintageGuitar Magazine a couple of
years ago with Joe Bonamassa butif you're like me, who's
(43:56):
relatively unknown, and allthese great players in Philly.
There's always the corporatewedding scene.
Sure, I did that for years andyears and years because you know
, on a private gig you can makeyour.
That's kind of like themainstay of your money, sure.
(44:17):
And then other stuff you fillin.
You fill in with studio work,you fill in with students, you
fill in with doing a bar gigonce in a while, you fill in
doing a country club gig and thescene for making original music
and making money at it.
Nah, that, really, if you'regonna have a house and and a
(44:39):
mortgage and, and you know, payyour car payment and this, and
that you got to do a diverseamount of things.
I mean I tour with two tributebands I'll play.
Today I'm playing a six to nine.
I'm doing a corporate eventwhere I'll take my Martin D28,
(44:59):
take my little crate amp thathas like two plugs for my mic
and one for my guitar and go andsing a bunch of stuff for three
hours and make real money.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
Right.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
So can you make money as an artist?
That's your question.
I would think it's very, verydifficult.
If you're the Jimmy Haslips andthe Jeff Lorbers of the world,
yeah, you can get a good shedtour in the summer and I'm
trying, I'm trying to do some ofthat.
(45:37):
You know, that's what I did inDallas.
I have a couple of promoterswhere I've done well in Texas.
I do well at certain rooms inNew York.
I do well in Connecticut, butit's hard, yeah, it's hard, it's
hard to do.
You know, it's like nice, nicepeople will always take you in,
(45:58):
you know, and promote you andhelp you.
Like you like you're giving methis opportunity to be on this
podcast, so this is anopportunity for me to like okay,
I branch out a little bit more.
More people get to know who Iam, and you know, and we're all
(46:19):
trying to help each other.
I met Gary Hoey.
I met Gary Hoey in 2014,.
Right, and I'm like coming toTexas for the first time because
of a crazy gig that I had thatthat I met Jimmy Wallace on.
So I go to Texas Dallasinternational bar festival.
I'm like I knew Gary Hoeybecause he did Hocus Pocus and
(46:42):
like I was a fan, I'm a huge fanof this guy.
He meets me, he hears me playand he goes hey man, come on,
come on on my stage, let's playRight.
And I'm like, oh, and it's GaryHowie doing this.
It's like I'm like, well,you're going to wait, you're
going to ask me up.
He goes yeah, you're coming upto play with me.
And I'm like, wow.
(47:05):
Like.
No, I don't know any like bigrock star, I would ever do that.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
Wow, like no, I don't know any like big rock star
would ever do that.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
True, that's the type of cat he is Like.
He he's more than just likethis incredible guitar player.
He's an incredible human beingand he translates that through
his music.
You could see that this guy'sreal, you know.
And so, like we're all just, Imean, you know, the point I'm
trying to make is we're alltrying to help each other.
(47:32):
You know, if I can, if I canhelp somebody, um, uh, get a gig
or or do something, I'm, I'mall about it, man, because it'll
come back and and reflect on me, you know absolutely that's.
That's kind of really what I'mabout, you know.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
Now, had you, have you ever moved away from Philly
and lived other places?
Or just you've gone and giggedother places, obviously, but any
over the years?
Have you ever contemplatedgoing elsewhere?
Speaker 2 (48:03):
Well, I was in New York for a little while, but
outside of that, no, justPhiladelphia.
If I were to go someplace else,I love california, so I, I
would love to be.
I would love to be in la um,just because I like the weather
and and I'm out there now, but,um, I you know I love the east
(48:25):
coast yeah I, I, you know, I, Ilove where I am.
There's such a great wealth ofplayers here and of course now,
as you know, probably you'reyou're feeling the same way.
I'm just rooted here.
All my friends are here, likethere, there's just such a great
wealth of great guitar players,great, uh, musicians here, the
(48:46):
guitar players here, I, I canname people like Kevin Hansen,
which nobody knows, incredibleguitar player.
This guy, greg Davis, who'shere, incredible guitar player,
jimmy Bruno, who's here.
There's all these great players.
There's another guy that I playwith we do this duo thing
(49:09):
called Vahe Sarkeesian.
He's a great guitar player.
Chris Gordon's a great guitarplayer.
I can go on and on and on.
There's many, many greatguitarists here and we all
respect and help each other.
Everybody here that I know isnot all about themselves.
(49:31):
Oh man, it's, it's not.
I guess I'm too old for that nowI understand maybe I'm just too
old for it and like, my thingnow is just like you know, I
just want to play music and andplay with people that I love and
make music with people that Ireally love.
You know, like I did, I've donemusic with everybody I've done.
(49:54):
You know I was MichaelCimbello's musical director.
You know I've played withBootsy Collins.
I did three records with him.
You know, the last record I didwith him was Worldwide Funk
with Eric Gales and Bucketheadwere on that too, wild Brian,
(50:16):
but you know all those butBootsy was.
He was another guy that wasreally really good to me.
I was playing at NAMM.
I was playing at NAMM andBernie Worrell watched me play
and said, hey, bootsy, you gotto see this white kid play
guitar, come over here.
So, you know, and I met Bootsythat day and Bootsy said, hey,
(50:37):
man, let's, let's start doingstuff.
I'm like, yeah, right, ok.
Well, you're Bootsy Collins.
Yeah, ok, right, right.
I gave him my email and likeTwo days later, you know, I had
a track and an email hey, joe,it's Bootsy, what can you do
with this?
That's wild Two days later.
I mean, you know, you know, youknow NAMM.
(51:00):
I met a lot of people at NAMM.
Speaker 1 (51:02):
Sure, and that doesn't happen to your point.
I mean, you meet a lot ofpeople and a lot of people say a
lot of things, and then everynow and again they follow up and
you're like I, I can't believethat just happened you like all
the stuff you've done since I'veknown you.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
I met you like maybe eight years ago and you know,
and I I mean I knew you weregreat back then.
I remember the first time thatI really met you was across from
the show when you and I we wereall staying at the Hilton
Garden Inn.
Remember that year?
Speaker 1 (51:37):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 2 (51:38):
Yeah, and you and I were eating breakfast and I had
known about you, but I hadn'treally seen you play yet.
But I remember we were sittingdown and then you said, all
right, really seen you play yet,and but but I remember we were
sitting down and then you said,all right, it's time to go.
And then you stood up and I'mlike, oh my God, this guy's big
(52:01):
and like my jaws hit the groundand I'm like, oh my God, man, I
got to talk to this guy more.
Some of his stuff know.
But, um, yeah, yeah, we meet alot of people at NAMM.
That's how I met Bootsy.
It's how I met.
I met Santana at NAMM, um, andthat was through Andy Timmons
(52:22):
okay, sure, andy yeah.
So, andy, um, andy watched meplay and he, he, oh, yeah, man,
you're a great player, and allthis.
And, and I was playing in thebooth and Santana walked by and
I didn't see him and he, he, Iwas playing and he grabbed my
(52:42):
hand and shook my hand and I'mlike who is this Jake of my hand
?
I look up and it's CarlosSantana Wild.
And so he, he walks.
It's Carlos Santana Wild, andso he walks to the Mesa booth
right, which was right past woodviolins at that time.
If you remember, the Mesa booththat year was the cafeteria,
(53:02):
was right in front of me.
I was playing for the AndreaFender and we were demoing Wawa
pedals Snarling Dog's Wawapedals.
Speaker 1 (53:13):
Snarling Dog.
I remember that.
Speaker 2 (53:16):
I would just play the tracks.
So Carlos went into the Mesabooth and there was this long
line of people and Andy Timmonssaid come on, come on, I'm going
to get you to meet Carlos.
And then that's how I metCarlos Santana that year Wild
yeah.
And he gave me a quote for mywebsite.
That's cool.
Quote Carlos and he goes uh,yeah, and he stood there and he
(53:39):
goes Joe, keep doing what you'redoing.
Speaker 1 (53:46):
We need you Awesome, yeah, awesome.
Well, listen, my friend.
Thank you so much for spendingsome time with us.
It was great hearing yourstories.
I always enjoy them immensely.
I encourage people to check outyour stuff, to go to your
website, which is just Joe mass.
Speaker 2 (54:03):
Yeah, joe masscom.
Or or just go to Facebook orInstagram.
It's just Joe mass and Joe Mass94, les Paul.
You can find that at Instagramand then just Joe Mass on
Facebook and TikTok.
It'll go to everything Perfect.
Speaker 1 (54:22):
Yeah Well, listen, you have a good one.
Say hello to Jimmy Bruno for me, and also say hello to old
Danny Gold.
Speaker 2 (54:28):
I will Love you, Greg .
Speaker 1 (54:30):
Likewise, my friend.
It was a pleasure, Great seeingyou.
Great seeing you too.
Have a good one.
We'll talk to you soon.
See you later.
Bye-bye, Folks.
Thanks so much for tuning in.
We certainly do appreciate youstopping by and partaking in the
most savory chewable gristlethis side of Cucamonga.
Gregory Cock, looking forwardto seeing you again next week,
(54:56):
even though I won't actually seeyou, but I'll sense your
presence.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.