Anish Majumdar Discusses Creating Your Own Job

This week we bring Anish Majumdar on to CHOPPIN WITH FIRE. We are blessed to have Anish on as he discusses navigating the world of creating your own job and current conditions within the job market. This career coach has a hefty amount of experience and talks about some hard truths on the show. Dont miss out on this week's episode on your favorite podcast platform.

Over the past 12 years, he has helped thousands of professionals around the world take the reins of their professional destiny and break free of the necessity of “job searching”- permanently. His webinars, videos and articles have appeared in Fast Company, Business Insider, Glassdoor, and Ivy Exec. 

#jobs #jobsearch #podcast #entrepreneurship #business #chaseyourdreams #choppinwithfire

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Episode Transcript

Dustin Steffey (00:00):
Hello chop nation Dustin Steffey here our

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Jaden Norvell (01:09):
Welcome to your top rated business
entrepreneurship selfdevelopment and smart investment
podcast. This podcast is hostedby creator and founder Dr.
Dustin Steffey and also hostedby coach, music producer and
influencer yours truly Jadenrush Norville, we are blessed
for many accolades such as beingnominated for the People's
Choice Award for Best BusinessPodcast, as well as raising over

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Without further ado, welcome tochopping wood fire ladies and
gentlemen, let's chop it up

Dustin Steffey (01:51):
Hello, and welcome to another episode of
chopping wood fire. You'rejoined with your host today
Dustin Steffey I have a treatfor you guys. But before I
introduce our special guests, Ido want to dive into a couple
things real quick, first andforemost, social media. We all
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donations to our charities. Thefirst one is Cystic Fibrosis.
For those of you that don't knowwhat cystic fibrosis is, that is
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They're very good for ourkiddos. I have a daughter that's
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that's everything for right nowI am excited because I want to

(04:31):
dive right into our specialguest. So but that being said,
let's introduce in a niche aniche is from a special make a
make that for us, embodieseverything that our podcast is
about he's he's not only good atacting and journalism he's good

(04:52):
at helping others to createtheir own pathway for creating
jobs instead of The normaltraditional means I'm not going
to ruin anything that he has,because he's better at
explaining it than I am. Sowithout further ado, I introduce
a Nish.

Anish Majumdar (05:11):
What's up, man?
How are you?

Dustin Steffey (05:12):
Good. How are you?

Anish Majumdar (05:14):
Good, good, good. I'm, yeah, I'm really
psyched. And I've been I've beenreally looking forward to
engaging with your listeners aswell, because I sort of feel
like you know, if you're someonewho's listening to your podcast,
you a lot of the hard work hasalready been done in terms of
you're already party probablyquestioning yourself, you're
already probably askingyourself, you know, I want
something better for my life,how am I going to put the pieces

(05:35):
together? You know, there's notransformation without that
without that first discomfortand that questing so hopefully,
hopefully, I can shoot dropsome, you know, knowledge bombs
that will really help everyonelistening.

Dustin Steffey (05:47):
I think based off of me getting to know you
and pre roll, I think there'smore than knowledge bombs, you
you embody what my podcast is,and what the journey is. So I'm
excited. I think the first stepthough, is everybody likes to
know who they're talking to, orwho they're listening to. So
let's get to know you a littlebit.

Anish Majumdar (06:07):
So I am 43. I have I'm married with, with
three kids, three, boys, nine,six, and four, they definitely
give us a run for our money. Iwas born and raised in Montreal,
conservative Indian family.
Everything kind of, you know,went topsy turvy for us around
the time that I was 10, where mymom's schizophrenia really kind

(06:31):
of blossomed. And so we didn'ttalk about it, we were
communicative. So for me actingand the ability to sort of take
all of that ugly churning,feeling all of that destruction
of our family, all of the force,Cuddles, etc, we were able to
sort of, I was able to find areal home for that, and a real
place for that and a way thatlegitimized it. So, you know,

(06:53):
acting for me became really thecalling and the and the drive,
I've been a filming TV Actorworked in Toronto, New York,
etc. And then while this wasgoing on, my mom, before she
took really, really sick, youknow, she used to be an English
teacher back in India, she kindof gave me a really solid
footing, I would say, beyondjust standard education in that
realm. So I developed a careerconcurrently, as a journalist.

(07:18):
I've won awards and stuff for myfor my work there. And so as all
of this is going on, and I'vegot a fan, you know, I'm now you
know, in my 20s, and I'm lookingto say, Okay, what's the next
step here? Knowing that everyother step acting journalism, or
whatever had come from insidehad come from a vision or
inspiration. So I'm talking withthis guy who's like 52,

(07:40):
ostensibly for help with a jobsearch email, I'd been doing
that as a sideline, literallyjust to make cash like resume,
LinkedIn, people knew like I hada talent for reframing who they
are in a different way to get aresult. So I was making the
money that way, and I'm talkingto this guy. And I quickly
realized, you know that it's,there's no resume or LinkedIn or

(08:01):
on planet earth that is going tohelp him or the majority of
people because what he waslaying out to me was, he spent
20 years in one company, theytold him that he'd had equity at
the end of it, they made achange one year before he was
set to retire gave him nothing.
He's basically out there. Buthe's not, he's not dealing with
a job search problem. He'sdealing with a self identity

(08:23):
problem. He feels like afailure. He feels old, he feels
out of date. And he looks andseems out of date, in terms of
in terms of the marketplace. Sothat's a lot more and no,
there's no resume on planetearth that's gonna solve all of
that. So it was the first timein my life. And it continues
this way, where the impetus camefrom those people that I'm
working with, and the impetuscame from a point that says, Oh,

(08:43):
I get it. The one thing thatmade me an outsider, which is I
don't have any of the normalcredentials or standards, but I
have an overdose of, you know,real life accomplishments up the
wazoo when I realized that thatdidn't work for me. And I
realized that oh, the businessof doing this another way, which
I taken for granted up to thatpoint, was an absolutely foreign

(09:06):
language, especially for thepeople who thought that there's
always going to be some mommy ordaddy out there who's going to
give them permission. Once Iunderstood that, I didn't know
if there was going to be ananswer there. But I could stop
mad, I got upset. And I said,Look, if there's another answer,
and end to end, I'm going tofind it. So six years of that
while working with clients and Istrongly recommend that I think
you're a fool if you say I knowI'm going to start a business

(09:28):
let me go off and create abusiness plan. No, no, you build
it off the back of client oneyou build it off the back of
client two that's the only wayyou're gonna know if it works or
not okay? And so it took me sixyears almost bankrupted us I'm
it's just me. It's just me. I'mone person, so and a laptop
learning with every coachfiguring out every way how to
deploy LinkedIn, how to deploymessaging, how to build

(09:50):
relationships with the highlevel, how to delete the fear
from that. And so now, you know,I've got a pretty small team
here, but we're 2500 People in2500 people who've like sort of
broken out of this, I'm notgonna lie to you and say
everyone, just like, you know,in the days of the matrix, you
know, Laurence Fishburne is likemany people have spent so long

(10:11):
plugged in that not only do theynot actually want to go out,
don't say it, they say they wantto break up. But not only will
they not want to break out, theywill actively fight you. And I
will say this, with all of oursuccess stories for every one of
them, there's five or six of youlistening who you don't have it
do. Okay, go back, go back to goback to Job land. Okay, go back
to Monster. And indeed, I'mtalking to the one out of five

(10:33):
or the one out of 10, maybe, youknow, or the one out of 15 or
20, who's listening right now.

Dustin Steffey (10:38):
There's so much to unpackage from everything
that you were saying just nowthe one direction I want to had
that kind of resonated with me,is you brought up the individual
that was working and invested ina company for almost 20 years.
And all of a sudden the rug gotswiped from under him, right.
Like with everything. And it's,it's just sad, because I see

(11:03):
that happening these days, evenwith the company that I'm
working for, right? There's lotsof restructure lots of changes.
This bodes the question, is it?
Is it feasible? Is it is it? Isit like the old days anymore,
where vesting in a company isimportant anymore? In a sense,

(11:24):
like I was raised old school,right, where you work your job,
you put in all the years, andthat seniority is rewarded. But
I'm seeing a shift where I'm notsure anymore, that it is
rewarded. Do you want to touchon that a little bit?

Anish Majumdar (11:44):
Yeah, definitely, I think, you know,
even highly in demandprofessionals over the course of
their career, they lose anaverage of four to five years on
this crap, like being betweenroles, interviewing, etc. So
when we when we look at this,you know, the old paradigm,
yeah, it's dead and gone. Buthonestly, it probably should
have gone a long time ago, youknow, the 40s and 50s. Were an
age of like, far more trustedinstitutions and far more trust

(12:08):
and like a big, big entity. AndI think we all know that none of
that crap works anymore. So Soyeah, I think I think things
have changed. And I but I would,the other thing I would say is,
what can you control, you can'tcontrol. If you're at a job, or
if you're working with abusiness, you can't control what
they do, you can't control if amerger comes in. Or if a new
boss comes in, there's plentythat you cannot control. And

(12:29):
there's nothing that you can dothat is going to enable you to
control because you can'tcontrol what people do. You
can't control that fine. So whatcan you control, you cannot take
a bad apple and make it good.
You cannot take a toxic job andmake it good. No one individual
can, okay, because the statusschool was designed to keep that
dysfunction in play. All you cancontrol is the number of apples

(12:49):
in the cart. That's the numberone thing you can flex, okay, is
that when you have a bad one,instead of it being my God, look
at my family, it's gonna it'sgonna get tanked. Because of
this. It's one out of 20. Okay,so yeah, that's, that's
problematic. But let's keep itin perspective here. Right? It's
part of a universe ofopportunities for us. And so the
future and certainly right now,what we're seeing is the most

(13:13):
successful people it's notbecause of the safety of their
bank account are their jobtitle, etc. These are people who
for themselves for what they do,they have figured out a way to
stand on their own two feet,free of any company, readjust
their skills, and find out a wayto to build relationships. And
they found a way to foster thatabundance for themselves. Hey,

(13:34):
by however means you want totalk about this, whether it's
networking this up, we'retalking about whatever they
found that way. And if you don'thave that, and I've worked with
people run up to the CEO level,if you never can say 100% Like I
accepted a role people will saythat I negotiated a role did
you? Did you have other offersin front of you at that moment?

(13:56):
Because if you didn't, Bs dude,you didn't. You just took what
was desperate enough to make youfeel better, right about not
being unemployed. That's notpower, I'm sorry, that is not
power. So our whole focus is toget people away from thinking,
perfect job, perfect company,etc. Get you if you are working
with us away from thinking,perfect job thing that's going

(14:19):
to make me feel less insecure,and getting you into a zone
where you're like, the universeis always there. I always will
have opportunities in front ofme. And none of that works. If
you're not being perceived as anequal, like, like, you're not
the same as Amazon or Sony orCEO. But you've got to have
integrity in your pathway. Andin every signal that you send

(14:39):
out. There cannot be what I calldesperate job seeker in there.
Okay, none of this clammy handedcrap. Okay, because it's not
going to work. Right? The secondyou send out that you're telling
me you don't really care aboutme. You don't care about getting
to know me. The only reasonyou're talking to me desperate
person is because you want ajob, but I'm not I'm gonna give
you the real details of what'sgoing on here, you're always

(15:01):
gonna be on the outs, this hasto change for anyone. And if
you've been in the job marketfor a couple years, and you're
asking yourself, like, why theold tricks aren't working, you
know, like this is why, becauseyour experience level your
capability, it demands that youdo this in a different way. And
if you don't, you're gonna fallinto the exact same trap that my
father did very hard to workingengineer, he spent his whole

(15:22):
career in one company, exactly,you're seeing a very old
paradigm Bell Helicopter, right?
Went to senior management neverbroke through past that point,
had more and moreresponsibility, couldn't figure
it out until a couple of monthsago, we were told we were
chatting, you know, and he'slike, you know, I wish I never
understood what you were doing,because it's so foreign from
from anything that I wasthinking of. But when I look

(15:44):
back at my work there, I dounderstand, like, I was
marginalized, by what I didn'tknow, and what I when I could
never have privy to. So I justkept doing more and more and
more for the things that I knew,while the other people had to do
less and less of the rightthings. And they moved forward,
they were sending the signalsthat said, You can trust me at

(16:05):
this level of impact. And henever was able to do that, you
know, so 15 years, 20 years agoby basically spinning your
wheels.

Dustin Steffey (16:15):
So we've discussed, we've discussed that
this old paradigm obviously haschanged, it doesn't work
anymore. But the lead upquestion on this old paradigm is
old school people were taught,if you stay in, in your job for
X amount of years, and all of asudden you want to jump ship to

(16:37):
another job, you look a littlemore desirable, because you have
many years in a company. Are yousaying that that paradigm is
broken and false to? Yeah, and

Anish Majumdar (16:47):
I think that that was also based on a
misunderstanding on our parts,because it's not what gets you
the job is not how long youspent at your previous job, or
even what title you have, theonly real currency that matters
is impact impact beyond your jobposting. In other words, your
resume should have nothing thatI should be able to see in a job
listing for any of those roles.
I want to know what you did beon that. Right. So with that in
mind, let's look at this becauseit's a great question. On

(17:08):
average, if you're a highly indemand professional, you should
be extremely cynical abouteither being an employer or even
doing business with a client forlonger than two years. Because
statistically, that's where theunderpayment happens. That's
where it happens. So if we'relooking at it there, and we say,
Okay, what makes it worth metaking a guaranteed pay cut to

(17:31):
be here longer than the two yearperiod? That's the way that you
want to think about this, right?
So if I say, Okay, what makesthat worthwhile. If I see larger
impact, if I see a clear careerpath, if I see progression going
on, if I have these thingsthat's working, and if it's not,
probably the most importantthing is not getting caught in

(17:52):
the bubble of your just onecompany. And that perception. So
no matter how hard you'reworking, I would say 10 to 15%,
I would, I would say I'maggressive 20 to 30% of my week,
but no matter how busy you are10 to 15% of your week should be
spent on building relationshipsand identifying pain at target
companies, clients and all thatand having these conversations,
okay? Even if, and especially ifyou're not looking for an

(18:14):
opportunity right now, thatshould be constant, okay?
Because what it'll do is it'llalso give you that perspective
at whatever role or whatever youhave going right, so that you're
not just taking the Kool Aid,you can actually see, I worked
with Varun, one of one of myfavorite clients of recent
memory, high tech, he'd been,he'd been trying to convince his
boss to do these very, verynecessary initiatives at his

(18:36):
company for like, the last twoyears hadn't been working. So
out of frustration, he's like,initial, let's go, I'm ready.
We're scaling this up. Let's go.
I'm done. Okay. He actuallyended up staying at that
company. And the reason he Whywas not because he pitched or
presented because we'd alreadyseen that that is a word. His
CEO started seeing that veryquietly. Runes perspective on
the conversations are no longerthis is what I think he's done.

(19:01):
He's over with that the brandthat he's putting out is clearly
not job secret, but it's open,it's high level, there are
changes there. The way he'stalking about that is not from a
perspective of oh, you dude.
It's from the expertsperspective, which is, look, if
you want to do business with me,if you want to do it, great. If
not, whatever, you know, you'reone of the 10,000 lives that we
want to teach. That's the that'sthe that's the truth of it. All

(19:23):
of those things, resulted in theCEO basically saying, hey, look,
we're gonna give you the moneyincrease, we're gonna give you
the impact. We're gonna we'regonna do this, I'm still not
100% sold on that way. But I'mwilling certainly, to give you
the benefit of the doubt here.
You know, you just have to bewilling to move on. If you're in
a toxic relationship, guesswhat, the best thing you can do
is start sending the signalsthat says, hey, I'm not only

(19:45):
done I'm taking the actions tokeep my life strong, secure away
from this, that's just the waythat it is. And so that's what I
would say is yeah, you gotta beyou gotta be thinking like a
free agent. And you've got to bethinking like also Who's to say
that you spending 15 to 20 yearsworking for a bunch of different
amazing places learning, who'sto say that that's not better

(20:09):
than some guy getting a dumbwatch and getting kicked out on
his ass basically, at the end of20 years, like, that's a dumb
dream to me, you know, like,that's not one that I ever
wanted. You know, I want I wantfulfillment, I want options. And
I want freedom, freedom aboveall else. And there's no freedom
in that, in that dream. Youknow, there's only so long term

(20:30):
subservience. And who caresabout that, you know,

Dustin Steffey (20:37):
I like I like what you brought up about the
freedom and, you know, all allof those concepts are excellent
concepts. For me, at the end ofthe day, what I want is to make
an impact on wherever I am. Solike, with this podcast, My
impact is giving back to othersway to reach out and connect

(20:59):
with the people that Iinterview. And furthermore
bettering themselves in whateverthey're doing, whether it be,
they want to be an entrepreneur,or we want to be better at the
job that they're currently inright now, or they want to
market themselves out better.
Like, that's, that's my goal ofgiving back. Right. And that,
for me, is a big goal, right?
It's huge, because it evolvesall the time, the impact that I

(21:22):
make changes daily, right, theguests that I have on are
different and have differentwalks alive. So it's

Anish Majumdar (21:30):
all and the ways and the ways that you can, and
the ways that you can leveragethe these aspects of what you
do. You know, we kind of call itlike peeling the onion. That
also, you know, for most peoplecould stand with some real
thoughts, some coaching and somedevelopment because, for
example, a non obvious way toleverage exactly your pathway,

(21:53):
you could definitely leverage,not just the fact that you built
the podcast, but these specificrelationships that you've had,
right? If you were able to say,okay, so all of this is starting
to, like, give me a little senseof let's call it the Dustin
process, okay, the Dustinprocess is, all of these leaders
that you've been, you know,talked to all of the, you know,
this knowledge, this insiderknowledge that you have that

(22:13):
even CEOs don't have. Maybe youstart looking that at that and
you say, hey, you know, there'ssome connective tissue here, you
know, there are some some thingsthat are working consistently,
there's some things that are notworking consistently, well, you
could very easily and I could, Icould help you directly set that
up, you could leverage thatright now. So that the, if you
want it to the bulk of yourtime, or a large percentage of

(22:33):
it, can be talking with Fortune1000, CEOs, leaders, CEOs, not
from a point of of a job, butfrom a point of let me
understand what you're doing.
And let me bounce off of thisperspective, this context that I
have to see what's working,what's not, you can create roles
for yourself absolutely at thehigh level based on what you've
done, but it's just that youalmost like meet someone to kind
of like be like, Okay, you'reright about that Catholic,

(22:57):
you're right about that. But whydon't we open this one up as
well, you know, because a lot oftimes, I don't know about you,
but a lot of times in my life,like the most fulfilling
professional experiences I had,were totally off plan, like,
like, I there was no plan to it,it was literally a found
opportunity that was so muchbetter than what I was going for
that I'm like, got it, you know,I would say that's true. But my

(23:19):
wife, you know, like, like, Iwas not looking for a serious
relationship. But the second Isaw her and the second I was I
was like, there's not going tobe another opportunity, right?
There's only this one window. Soit's my choice what I want to do
here, right? You know, thesethings about bravery, freedom,
all of that ultimately, all itcomes down to, I think is for
all of us, being brave, beingbrave in in small ways, you

(23:40):
know, being brave in terms ofjust telling one person in our
life, that who really loves andcares about us being honest
about your vision for what youreally want, you know, I think a
lot of people I've worked with,they try to, like hide that from
their spouses and their lovedones because they feel like I'm
under stress, you know, and solet me keep the stress on

(24:02):
myself. So it doesn't bleed outto my kids. And my MLM makes
sense, right? But the truth, thetruth is, if you have a big
dream right now, you need allthe love and support that you
can get. And it is not possiblefor you to do it on your own. I
tried. And I've had many peoplewho tried but now now's the time
that your people they need toshare in your dream, they need

(24:25):
to see that it's not just aboutyou getting that next role, are
you making that pivot? This isthe life that we want. This is
the vision for the life that wewant. And this is abundance for
all of us, you know, and I needyour help because I'm going to
be stressed on this and I'mgonna have ups and downs and
there's gonna be times that Idoubt myself and I really need
someone in my corner who canlike help me to say, Hey, you're

(24:47):
good, man. Don't worry aboutthis. This is necessary
turbulence, you know? I feellike we could all you know, do
with a little bit more of that,you know, especially when we're
talking the entrepreneursjourney or the business
training, please don't keep itto yourself, you know, truly,

Dustin Steffey (25:06):
there was another term that kind of was a
hot button for me that came up,you said something about Kool
Aid. And it sparked somethingfor me. A lot of these companies
that you work for as youprogress up in the ranks, I like
to call it drinking the companyKool Aid, where you change as a
person and you become, insteadof an individual, in my opinion,

(25:30):
you become a yes person withinthat organization as you go up,
because they're molding you toembody what they want, versus
what you can bring to the tableand offer. I know, there are a
lot of companies that look atand focus on, hey, put together
a development plan for the yearon what your opportunities are,

(25:52):
or, Hey, do this or do that. Butat the end of the day, and
correct me if I'm wrong, but atthe end of the day, the way I
see it is is you kind of lose aportion of yourself, the
company's trying to mold youinto what they want, versus what
your personality is, and how youcan how you can provide value to

(26:15):
that company. So a good exampleof that is, for me, I'm a very
expressive person very, likeopen I think, for me being in
management and managing a team.
I'm all about the people workfor a person, they don't work
for an organization. So if youhave a bad manager, or if you
have someone that can't quiteget past that company Kool Aid

(26:36):
BS, right. You're you'reunhappy.

Anish Majumdar (26:43):
Yeah, no, I totally agree. Yeah, they're
gonna leave. Yeah, I agree. Theboss is the the representative
of the company. It's a standardin some sense for the for the
entire company. You know, as faras the person who was working
there is concerned totally.

Dustin Steffey (26:57):
I've been told many times that I'm not
promotable because of mypersonality, which I really did.
Yeah, because of my personality,or because, you know, I'm a
liability, because I act acertain way, or whatever the
case may be, like, I've beentold that and it's like, you
know, I strongly disagree.
Actually, I, I stronglydisagree. So that bodes the next

(27:21):
question for me, which is thatceiling that you hit as an
individual? So for me, I've hitthat ceiling in, in my current
role, right? Where the companyjust Alt promote me, so I'm not
a ceiling right now I am at themax of where I can go. Because I
am unwilling to drink thatcompany Kool Aid per se. Right.

(27:43):
And it's, it's sad, because Ithink companies lie in a sense,
right? Because they sit thereand they say, they want to
retain the best talent. Theywant to promote the right
people. But in my mind, theydon't.

Anish Majumdar (28:01):
Yeah, I think I think you what you're saying
here is so perfect. And thething that I would say is,
imagine this, promoting, versuspartnering, okay. And the reason
I'm saying this is the promotingpathway is filled with a lot of
exactly what you're talkingabout. And probably the number
one thing exactly as you'vedescribed, even if you had

(28:24):
everything going and thatneeded, everything was there,
you're always going to befighting the first impression of
what brought you in there nomatter what. Okay, so that's why
for most, for many people at acertain point, right, usually,
after the two to three yearmark, it actually behooves them
to start building it fresh, sothat they can actually re state
what the sort of game field is,right? They can say, here's
where I'm starting from, right.
Here's the angle. Here's thelevel I want to talk about. So

(28:46):
you're right, promotable, I'mprobably not promotable either.
Dude, I you know, I'm terriblybrutal. But what I also
understood is that there is alevel that is higher, that we
can all tap into, let me giveyou an example. If I was
suffering from cancer, rightnow, skin cancer, and I'm
looking for somebody to treatme, I promise you, it doesn't

(29:07):
matter if the doctor is aculture fit. Or an introvert
like me, I don't give a crap,right? That is a level of
competence that is based onburning pain. Now, here's what
I'm gonna say, for you. Yeah,your, your journey is also so
unique that you don't want tothink about it that way. Because
there's the there's always goingto be gatekeepers who are going

(29:28):
to be like, that's a littleatypical. That's a little risk.
Why should I put my neck out forDustin? You know what I mean?
Like, why would I do that? Idon't know, you know, so
definitely that pathway has thatthing. But you've got to think
like this. You've got to thinklike a partner to that business,
regardless of what the role is.
And what you're talking about isif the solution to the Kool Aid
look, it's normal for a companyto apply its pressure, but it

(29:50):
has to be balanced out by yourpriorities and what you want so
that this has a positive backand forth that's going on right
and that means you've got tohave an idea of where you're
going beyond this job, right?
Where does this jobs fit intoyour larger thing? If you are
understanding what you're reallypaid for, and this is a big
problem that I see people arenot addressing, okay. Let's say

(30:12):
you're in marketing, yourmarketing director, what do you
actually get paid for? If youtell me marketing, you're not
thinking on your anything beyondthe promoting path, what you're
really paid for, because anybusiness owner, including
myself, will tell you. If Icould off source marketing, I
would the only reason I wouldwork with anyone there is to

(30:32):
grow the business the way that Iwould like to grow this
business, right. So if thatmarketing director
differentiated him or herself,by a branding themselves around
this is the kind of growth thatI can catalyze is the right way
to grow the business versus thewrong way that would give you a
standing to have theseconversations that would give
you a point of view that youcould filter your questions
through. And that would give youthe entree to start identifying

(30:54):
what are the deep growthchallenges, right, the deepest
aspects of what you solve,that's what you've got to
understand, right? That's whatyou want to make people feel
comfortable with having aconversation with you about
ideally in that first, in thatfirst interaction, call meeting,
interview, whatever, right. Andso that the most important
signal I would say that apartner would do. A partner

(31:16):
insists on making an engagementabout present tense, and present
details, not the past. In otherwords, every detail I share you
whether I'm in an interview roomcandidate, it doesn't matter to
me, okay, every time I share adetail, I expect something from
you, right? I expect informationabout how you're handling that

(31:38):
detail information about whohave you tried to hire in the
past information about do youthink that this works, right?
challenging you? Right, all withan eye towards finding out those
two or three things that aretruly keeping you up at night?
Right, truly driving the hire,and people aren't doing that,
you know, they're not thinkingappropriately high level enough
or deep enough about about aboutwhat they solve. And then
they're not understanding on theon the flip side 99% of job,

(31:59):
like, postings are BS, I cantell you that having hired for
other people, I will tell youthat, because no company is
sharing their confidentialdetails of what's really driving
that hire on Monster indeed, forpublic consumption, if that's
the key towards actually comingin at a company at a high level
and not being pushed out ispeople at the high level your

(32:20):
boss, everyone elseunderstanding look, there's an
indispensable aspect of Dustinhere. I don't know how he does
it. But this perspective here,we're not we can find 50 other
people in marketing 50 otherpeople into business
development. There's one personwho actually understands what
I'm trying to do here, what thereal drivers are, right? You've
got to be dogged about nottalking about money about not
talking about job titles, or anyof that crap. Until you

(32:42):
understand what that is. That isyour only goal when you start
building a relationship. I don'tcare what it is, like if I'm on
worktime. That's the only thingwe're talking about. And you
better believe it doesn't matterif you're a client of mine or
not. If I'm looking at yourcareer, and you're I'm giving
you a piece of advice. I expectyou to handle that 100% If we're
going to keep talking about thissituation, right? And that's not

(33:05):
your priority. That's a mepriority, right? And that gives
me an entree and an authoritythat people who are like, hey,
Dustin, you got some problemswith your career. You got some,
like, Jazzy like, I don't give acrap, dude. Right? Because I
understand what this mission is.
Right? Do you understand whatyour mission is? Do you

(33:26):
understand what your Y is?
Right? And how high level youcan be? Or are you going to let
that little voice insidedictate? Right? You telling me I
gotta fight that voice the sameas everyone else listening to
this dude, every day, I gottafight that voice. I love my
kids. I love snuggling, dude,that's what I want to do. Okay,
I gotta fight that voice. But Iknow now I've had enough

(33:47):
experience to know, oh, everyoneis trying to figure this out.
Everyone is lost. Everyone isdealing with incomplete
information. And people want todo business with you. People
actually want to collaborate,but they're in need a little
help. They need a little extrafrom you or anyone else. And
that 1% of people who are goingto be who care enough to do that

(34:07):
are going to get like the 80 to90% of opportunities. And that's
been true in my business aswell. You know, the only reason
I'm here is because I was dumbenough. We're crazy and upper
stupid enough to keep walking toa ridiculous extent, so far into
the woods, that at a certainpoint, when I found the
treasure, I'm like, I'm 400miles back, so I got to find my
way back there. But no one elsecared enough. You know, they

(34:29):
didn't. So I deserve it. And sodoes anyone else who's who's
who's thinking of it this way,you know, that what's your
territory? Like? What's yourunique stake? I would really
encourage everyone to to reallythink about that.

Dustin Steffey (34:44):
Shifting gears a little bit because I mean,
identifying your unique state isimportant stuff, but a common a
common thing that comes up thesedays is people, especially high
level people, right? They lookat these job boards and And
they're either a not qualifiedbased off of what these job

(35:04):
boards say or be, they have toomuch experience. So like
bringing myself in, for example,I have a PhD, right? So if I go
in and interview for, I don'tknow, like McDonald's or
something, right? I'm toooverqualified. So they won't
hire me because they think thatI want a bunch of money. Right?
So the question that this leadsinto, is, are there enough jobs

(35:29):
out there right now, I know youand I talk about or have spoken
about already. These job boards,and this is where you come in
with creating your own job? Isthere enough opportunity out
there for one to be able to liveand be paid what they're worth,
essentially? I mean, when I lookat Monster, and indeed and all

(35:49):
that, and I only look just tosee what's out there, I'm not
seeing very much in my mind thattruly encompasses fulfilling me.

Anish Majumdar (35:58):
Well, I mean, you know, this, this goes back
to what we're what we're talkingabout, I would say that what
we've seen on the employer sideover the last couple of years is
more and more incentivization,of getting talented people in
through non traditional means,because the normal way is also
not working for them. So but,you know, in terms of this, is
there enough jobs, I mean, I'llbe honest with you, maybe it's a

(36:21):
bit of a cold way to look at it,it doesn't really matter to me,
I don't know, if there's ifthere's going to be enough
abundance for everyone, like Idon't know, I'm not the
president of United States, I'mnot selling my job to care for
the welfare of everyone, I willtell you, all I care about is
that the people who are I'venoticed in every company in any
capacity, there's like five to10% of people who are doing 80
to 90%, of the real work of thereal moving forward. All I

(36:44):
believe, is that those peopleshould have opportunities, those
people should have freedom, andthey should be able to generate
that freedom anywhere in theworld, on their terms. Right?
That's what I believe. So Idon't know, I don't know what
that answer is. But I know thatyou know, what we're talking
about. If we can take away thehidden job market thing and just
say, look, start trusting peopleand helping people now, instead

(37:05):
of waiting on permission to dothat, that's all I'm asking you
to do. That's all I'm askinganyone here to do. And that is
not an if it's a must, becausewhat we're seeing is five years
from now, the disintegration inthe applicant tracking systems,
all of that it's gonna getworse, we're already looking at
near 90% Auto rejection,regardless of what your
qualifications are, what do youthink is going to happen five

(37:26):
years from now? 10 years? Whatdo you think is going to happen?
When most people, especially thepeople who have been doing
everything possible to avoidthis right? What do you think is
going to happen when it becomeslike a 99.5%? rejection rate,
right? And then it starts to youstart to understand, oh, all of
these opportunities are beingfilled, but I'm not being
exposed to any of them. Right?
That's the difference. You know,don't don't, I would say, Don't

(37:47):
draw an industry wideconclusion, based on incomplete
information and to don't look atyourself as an average
participant in your industry.
Look at yourself as a top 5%.
Right. That's the way that Iwould look at it. Everyone else?
I don't know. It's telling me.

Dustin Steffey (38:07):
So that bodes the next question, which is old
hiring practices versus newhiring practices. And when I
bring that up, I mean, oldhiring practices where you walk
in, you fill out a paperapplication, you interview with
someone on the spot, or whateverthe case may be, versus new,
which is you use social media,digital technologies, you put

(38:29):
together your resume, you haveto put in keywords and stuff so
you don't get rejected and allthat stuff. How's it really
gotten easier? Or has it gottenharder in your mind? And is
there a part of where thesepractices have evolved? Where if
we missed the mark, somewherewhere it needs to evolve again,
into something better?

Anish Majumdar (38:50):
Yeah, I think we know what you're talking about
from that application onwards,it gives employers the illusion
of choice, which fundamentallydisempowers you and it forces
you to go through these hoops?
Look, let's start with this.
Those tools don't get youanything. Okay. The LinkedIn
resume interview strategy, thosedon't count for anything on

(39:12):
their own. What I would say is,if you're coming in, based on
the relationship and based onpain uncovered, then for
example, the resume can be usedto deepen that dialogue can be
used to provide pressure forthat follow up, right? But
everything has to do with thepain that you identify and
serving as a champion forsolving that it has to stop

(39:35):
being about you. And so when welook at this what you're talking
about, you know, people will dothat. They'll say, Oh, I paid
like 1000 bucks to get myLinkedIn profile done. What do
you think is gonna happen, man,like, that's not going to do
anything on its own? Right? So Iwould say an expert does
business based on assessment. Inother words, not interviewing,

(39:57):
assessing right asking forQuestions, having a plan and
having a process of vettingwhat's going on here and
directing that conversation? Anexpert knows how to assess
instead of interview, an expertknows that you don't provide
anything there unless there'saccountability. So if you're
saying you want to have a followup here, fine. Here's what we

(40:20):
discussed. Because I've beentaking notes. You know, here's
what we discussed, lead up, whatspecifically are we going to be
discussing here, that's going toget us closer. And also, if I
decide as an expert, that we'vereached a point where no further
discussion is necessary, it'sokay for me to gently say, Hey,
I think we're at offer point,right? So all of these signals
that we're talking about, youknow, Dustin, you sound like a

(40:40):
man who could really benefitfrom what we do. I'm just being
very honest here. Because, youknow, a man was a PhD, you
should not be thinking I know,what's an example. But you
should not be thinking aboutMcDonald's, you should not be
thinking about falling out jobapplications. All of that should
be a completely foreign languageto you at this point. Because
you've spent so long, you've gota world of people, man, isn't

(41:01):
that what it's all about? Sothat when you have a goal, or
you have a dream, the firstpeople is, hey, let me talk to
Dustin, let me talk to Sarah,let me talk to Aaron, who I got
to know, through you. That's thelong term payoff of doing this
through the relationship is aswell, because the longer you're
filling out applications, everyrelationship that you build,
falls apart at the end of that,right. But you've got to capture

(41:21):
all of those relationships,that's actually arguably more
important than whoever the nextperson is. That can manifest or
get you the inside the insidescoop there, right? So make it
all about pain, make it allabout what is discovered and
have some balls, like, like,understand that, like, no one
people are acting like a goodemployee from from level one,

(41:44):
you're not an employee. You'renegotiating with me. So have
some courage. Challenge BS, whenyou hear someone saying crap,
call it out. What do you mean bythat? That flies against the
face of the other companies thatI've been talking with? Here's
specifically what I saw acompany wide. What do you guys
think about that? Right?
Challenge, right? Avoidpassivity, avoid TV, watching
your way through your career.

(42:06):
You know?

Dustin Steffey (42:09):
I agree with that. And while we were using
examples with me, right, like,that's, I know, my worth, I know
what I'm about. I know what I'venetworked in, you're right, like
someone with my caliber, like,I'm past, like filling out
applications and stuff, I havedoorways that have opened to me
that are better, that I'vecreated kind of like what you're

(42:32):
talking about, which is creatingdoorways for others to create
their own success.

Anish Majumdar (42:38):
And you can leverage and you can leverage
what you've done here to quicklyopen new targeted high level
doors, without necessarilyinvesting the time to do so
based on a smart intelligentutilization of brand messaging
development. That's the otherpart, like, like you're using

(42:58):
all of this, to speed it up, ouraverage is two interactions to
an offer. That's the goal mostof the time, right? So the way
you've got to do that is you gotto apply apply additional
pressure. So when someone seesyour LinkedIn profile, instead
of there being like one or twoquality markers, there's 13,
there, right, that are relevant,right? When you jump into, like,

(43:18):
that has to be there, you know,and so not to not to not to
distract, but I would say, youknow, let's not be naive, most
people, it's not like, you know,someone who has the ideal role
for you. Most probably it's onelevel out from your network,
right? So the strategy should nomatter what your strategy is,
should hinge on those people,how can I attack and bring these

(43:41):
people into my world who arefeeling the highest
manifestations of my pain? Onelevel out, one level out, and
those people should be focusedon number one of what you do?

Dustin Steffey (43:52):
What's your take on these companies that or
hiring people to check a box perse? And I? I don't bring this up
negatively? Because Oh, yeah,I'm one for diversity, right.
And I love diversity, becauseyou get a bunch of different
viewpoints. But lately, it seemslike in this century, like
currently, companies are hiringto check that diversity box or

(44:14):
do check that men versus womenbox to really just put the
persona out there that they'regood company to work for,
because they hire diversely, orthey have X amount of men and
women or whatever the case,maybe what's your take on those
companies?

Anish Majumdar (44:33):
Yeah, you know, I think, you know, like, we were
saying, you know, if this fiveto 10% of people are out there
with an uncommon amount ofopportunity and generation 80 to
90% are kind of going throughthe marketplace, right? And what
you're talking about is there isthere's a huge amount of
commoditized hiring going on,right? So you go in I'm telling

(44:53):
you what the job is I'm tellingyou what to execute it's mostly
you're gonna have yourperformance is based on what you
execute very little strategicand We move on, those roles are
available all the way onthrough. And there are certainly
companies that could benefitfrom that. But again, going back
to what we were saying,successful career is built on

(45:15):
the creative conflict betweenthe company's clients, you work
for their priorities, meetingyou and your priorities, right?
And so, in that kind of asituation, yeah, maybe it's for
diversity, maybe it's foranything, right? Like, like,
like, like, Whatever, whateveryou whatever you want to call
it. It's, as long as it's basedon this and the information from

(45:38):
here, you don't have the poweror the ability to really
advocate for yourself, right?
Because you're always saying,look at how good I can do this,
look at it, but you don't knowthat this is what's actually
driving. Right? So I mean, Idon't know man, I mean, I,
there's, that's gonna, that'sgonna continue as long as
there's people who feel likesomehow it's like, harder to,

(45:59):
like, bend and scrape for acompany that actually getting to
know a human being. And by theway, I'm not judging that
because I was also that person,like, I'm a shy, introverted
person. And I would gladly workin a computer for many hours,
right. But what I understood isthat getting to know three of
the right people and being openand vulnerable and figuring out
a plan to do it will get me wayfurther than that every time

(46:21):
every time. Right? So why arewe? How did we get to a place
where the hardest thing onplanet Earth is to talk to your
fellow human beings? Like, howdid we get there? And I'm really
asking you, like, how do we getto a point where there's so much
shame, embarrassmentawkwardness, for the simple

(46:41):
thing that I would say is almosta human right? That should be as
easy as breathing for us gettingto know other people getting to
know their lives, getting toknow, what are you doing? What
made you make these decisions?
Can you tell me a little bitmore about that? Ooh, let me
challenge that. This is naturalmen, you know, like, the
unnatural thing is what you'retalking about? Everything that

(47:01):
you're talking about? That's theunnatural crap, right? The only
reason you're normalizing it andpeople are normalizing it, it's
because you've lived with it fora long time. Decide what you
want to do, you know, like,decide, because I because I
would tell you, ultimately, it'sgoing to be an either or
decision for you and everybodyelse, right? You cannot play

(47:21):
both of those games, one willcontinuously try to commoditize
and drag you down. Even if youget to the offer. They're
cutting, cutting, cutting,Bethany, one of our clients,
high tech, she got sick andtired, the higher up she rose,
the more BS assessments andtests she had. What's up with
that? So this, you have todecide, you've got to decide
what is your value? Is it is ithigher than this? Because then

(47:44):
you've got to be the one whocoalesces that first impression.
If you're waiting for anemployer to do it, you're never
going to you're never going todo it. And I think people who
spend most of their lives tryingto check those boxes. Look, I
probably been unfairly rejectedfor roles as an actor many a
time because of the way that Ilook at my skin color. So I'm
not fully unsympathetic to that,okay, if people need to bring on

(48:07):
diversity, do whatever you needto do. Right? But again, I'm
not. I don't care about thegroup. I'm not interested in the
group. What resonates with me,is that one person, right? What
resonates with me, is that oneout of 10, right? They're
getting this, everyone else isgonna go shut off this podcast
and, and pat themselves on theback for having done some like

(48:27):
business work or whatever, no,and then you're gonna go on with
your life, right? And you'regonna keep that subscription.
And you're gonna say that's thevirtue. But you haven't done
anything. Right.

Dustin Steffey (48:39):
The other thing that the other than that you
just brought up in, in aquestion format, right is what
happened to us, like, with thebare basic needs of talking to
each other as humans, right. AndI think the biggest the biggest
downfall for us, and the biggestwin for us, right, technology is

(49:00):
great. But I think technologyand I talked about this with a
couple of my other guests, hasbeen a deterrent to developing
the soft skills that are superimportant that my father had, or
my father's father or my mom ormy grandma had, right, like soft
skills are disappearing, becausepeople are sitting in front of a

(49:23):
computer instead ofcollaborating with other people.
And so I feel that soft skillsare declining, in my opinion.

Anish Majumdar (49:33):
Another way to look at it would be that soft
skills, the value of soft skillsare increasing exponentially for
the right people, right. So if Iwork with the tech, let's say I
work with an IT director orsomething, right? If we're
talking about an IT director whoeither through experience or
through his own learning orwhatever, has developed those
people's skills can can work itlike an engineer with people

(49:56):
skills, I can get you two tothree times what you're asking
prices right? because you havethat, because you have those
soft skills and because you alsodetermined that those were
important, right? A big part ofthe reason that this is
shrinking away is the samereason that arts is shrinking
away in our education system,it's not considered important.
It's not considered essential,because you don't see a direct

(50:18):
lineup. Right. But it's likewriting, you know, like writing
is my superpower. Right? Andit's just one skill, right?
Writing, I have other skills.
But the magic at the at thebottom of that is deeply
spending the bulk of my lifebuilding and building and
becoming truly expert at acouple of things that really
resonated with me. Right. Soyeah, I think I think that I
think there's so much abundanceout there. And I honestly just

(50:45):
want to almost like just takethe wool away from people's
eyes, and see, look, this is, atthe end of the day, companies
are a dime a dozen. But if youhave something special, and
you've done special things, andagain, you're going after
something that matters to you,dude, you're the you're the
prize, you're the one who shouldhave everything that you want
here and your career should geteasier and easier know, as your

(51:08):
as your thing progresses, youknow, and I think about that
now, you know, at 43, my goalsare very different than what it
was at 25, you know, but thesame goal of I want to feel
fulfilled, I want to feeloptions, and I don't want to
feel like I'm like, my life isout of my control. Because 50
things can happen. And I don'tknow what to do if it happens,
you know, like, that's what it'sall about. To me.

Dustin Steffey (51:30):
This interview has been full of amazing stuff,
right? This is a goldmine and awealth of knowledge. I think you
and I could talk for a wholeeight to 10 hours on this stuff.
But I agree. Yeah, I thinkrelevance though, and everything
that we've brought up, is goingto resonate with a lot of
people. Last thing I wanted toleave our listeners with is, in

(51:53):
your opinion, if you were togive one important piece of
information, what would that be?
I

Anish Majumdar (51:59):
would say, act as if, by which I mean you're
going out there you're you'reyou're about to interview for a
role that you feel is way beyondyou put yourself into the
mindset of the person whoalready has it put yourself into
the mindset of that futurestate, right? What would you do
differently? How would youprepare? What moves would you
take? Same thing for the firsttime you have to verbalize your

(52:22):
your ideal number, not thenumber you got on the PayScale
resources, the real numberthat's gonna do it for you,
right? What would the version ofyou that's already earned that
and honestly feels a littleunderpaid? Right? Now? How would
he handle this? Right? I've usedthis myself. And the thing that
really makes it resonate andcome alive is also asking the

(52:43):
follow up, what would he or shedo? Like, what would that person
do in this situation? But also,what can I bring and do right
now that does not require thepermission of this next offer,
right, that this person isdoing, I did that for working
out, which I hate, but I alwayshad an idea in my mind that when
I wouldn't when our businesshits like this financial target,

(53:05):
I'm gonna have a personaltrainer, right? I'm gonna
magically find, you know, thistime. And what changed it for me
was realizing, like, look, I'mgetting busier as things are
going on. Right? So that's thatI, that guy would not be doing
that, right, that guy wouldprobably, for me, as equipment
right here have opportunitiesright here. So I can bring it
seamlessly into my day andactually use it as a source of

(53:26):
energy. Right? When I understoodthat, that's one more piece,
that's one more thing I don'thave to do on that call. That's
one more aspect of self belief,right? That I can go into that
room with without having tocreate on the spot, right. So it
can be very, very powerful tochoose to start thinking like
that. And as if is like awonderful, like, it's a

(53:47):
wonderful mental workaroundaround these natural sort of,
you know, limitations we haveyou know, like that make us feel
like I'm gonna freak out fromanxiety. You know, by doing
this, you know, that can be itcan be really helpful. A niche,

Dustin Steffey (54:01):
thank you for just the wealth of knowledge
that you bring in. It's It'srefreshing to have someone that
aligns with the same goals likeI have. So I think that the
wealth of knowledge you broughtto this episode and to my
listeners is amazing. I thinkthis is going to be good, good
stuff. If people need to get ahold of you. What's the best way

(54:22):
for people to get a hold of you?

Anish Majumdar (54:24):
Ah, two things.
Hello, anish.com. That's kind ofour headquarters on the web. For
people who want to go deeperinto our career trainings.
Again, we're just sharing theatypical stuff that is actually
working out there. That would bea good place. LinkedIn, if you
put in a NSH and you put in theword career, that would be a
great place and then one finallink, tap the hidden job period

(54:46):
market, Ford slash ASAP forthose of you who are like in
opportunity generation mode. Ifyou go over there, free class,
we just wrapped it new rules ofthe job search 2023 2024 It'll
break down the biggest shiftsthat we're seeing, and you can
start utilizing that right nowto start seeing more activity,
more opportunities and justbetter outcomes, you know,

(55:07):
that's, that's what it's allabout, you know? Yeah.

Dustin Steffey (55:11):
Excellent, my friend, thank, thank you so much
for taking time out of your dayto come on in, just to educate.
I appreciate it. So, from me toyou, thank you.

Anish Majumdar (55:21):
Thank you, man.
I, the time went by like, like,very, very quick. So I still
appreciate it. But I appreciateyour energy and everything that
you're bringing out there,because I think it's really
necessary.

Dustin Steffey (55:33):
Well, we appreciate you and I'm sure this
isn't the last that we've heardfrom you. I'm sure we'll have a
couple more to come on. Becauselike I said before, I mean, you
and I can speak on this for like1015 20

Anish Majumdar (55:46):
Yeah, for sure.
For sure.

Dustin Steffey (55:48):
Excellent, my friend. Thank you very much. You
have a wonderful day. Iappreciate it.