May 1, 2023 • 39 mins
Craig Locicero is a musician best known for playing guitar with Bay Area thrash metal band Forbidden. He also played guitar with ManMade God, Dress the Dead, The Boneless Ones & Demonica. His band Forbidden has now had a rebirth with new singer Norman Skinner in the fold. They will be releasing some new music and playing some festivals. We discuss Forbidden, some of his other projects and his time working on one of Geoff Tate’s albums.
00:00 - Intro
00:39- Forbidden "Rebirth"
02:42 - Bay Area Interthrashional & Norman Skinner
09:30 - Band Comes Together & Other Plans
12:55 - Bay Area Thrash Music Scene
17:25 - Paul Bostaph & Slayer
18:50 - Forbidden Manager Turns Down Rick Rubin
22:30 - ManMade God
26:20 - Doing Things Differently
28:13 - Playing with Geoff Tate
32:00 - The Boneless Ones & Other Bands
34:05 - Future Plans with Forbidden
36:25 - ALS Charity
38:20 - Outro
Forbidden website:
https://officialforbidden.com/
ALS website:
https://www.als.org/
Chuck Shute website:
https://chuckshute.com/
Thanks for Listening & Shute for the Moon!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Chuck Shute (00:00):
Craiglist Cicero the guitarist from Bay Area
(00:02):
thrash band forbidden is heretoday. And if you missed
forbidden now's a great time todiscover them. They have now had
a rebirth with new singer NormanSkinner, and we're going to talk
all about that and the plans forthe band. Also, we're going to
talk about his time with theproject man made God and working
with Rick Rubin and his work onan album with Jeff Tate. So all
(00:25):
this and more coming right upwelcome, I think I can say it
right now. I practiced this.
Craig Lowe Cicero.
Craig Locicero (00:45):
You said it correctly. All right, we got it
so forbidden is back. It's uh,this is like kind of like a
rebirth is what you're callingit of the band. Yeah, yeah, it's
not really a it's not areformulation or we're even a
rehash or, I mean, with the twonew guys
you know, in the experience theybring and savvy and you know,
(01:09):
all that good stuff. It's, it'snot the same as the RE formation
that happened last time around.
What do they call that though?
There's a word for that andreboot called while there's
reboot to though but the wordthat everyone likes us or
anytime reunion. It's not. Meand Matt Camacho have been
friends entirely seat, you know,the entire time since we were 15
(01:34):
and 16 years old, respectively.
So it's not we're not reuniting.
And same with Steve Smith. Wetalk to him often, you know,
that it is a rebirth with ChrisKontos and Norman Skinner.
Chuck Shute (01:46):
Yeah, it's still gonna be forbidden. I mean, it's
still three fifths of the bandand the singers. He can sing all
the old stuff. The same, right?
Oh, yeah.
Craig Locicero (01:55):
Yeah. The same is a relative term. When he
first started singing it at thefirst practice. We heard when we
were not even this was not evena thing, dude. But he, there's a
story behind that. But when hedid start singing off the head
the first time, it didn't soundlike Roz. It sounded like a guy
who owned it. Who had similarpowers or us like similar
(02:19):
powers. You know, he wasn'ttrying to like I'm not
interested in karaoke. You know?
Like, if Bruce Dickinson triedto sing Les Paul the piano.
Like, that's not really good.
You got it. You got to beyourself. And that's what he is.
That's why he earned my respect,because it just sounded like
Norman Skinner singing aforbidden song. And Skinner is
already a great singer. Yeah.
And you knew him because youguys were in this, like cover
(02:41):
tribute band, the Bay Areathrash band, international.
Chuck Shute (02:48):
I love that's a great name.
Craig Locicero (02:50):
So I'm good at coming. I'm good at coming up
with slogans. I should have madesome money off things like that.
But no, yeah. It wasn't really.
We didn't look at as a coverband. Would you like me explain
how that came about? And I guessYeah. Okay. All right. Well, it
starts with the folks at dynamo,the newer Dynamo Dynamo Metal
(03:10):
Fest, not the old Dynamo openair. But there was the guys that
used to go to Dynamo open air,who, who got the name and
started redoing it. And theywrote me an email. And because
they've shared with the Tteacher check, wrote me and
asked me if I would beinterested in heading any kind
(03:30):
of Bay Area thrash tribute,because he knows that I work
with Rob Lin tightly on theruffling and print stuff and I
was kind of like the, themusical organizer, you know,
until Rob gets his hands in it,and then he does what he does,
but so he knew that I was kindof good at organizing things.
But I said that sounds kind ofboring, fly me out there and we
(03:52):
take a look at all so this is2019 and I went and checked it
out and I love the new setupbecause this was the very old
setup of Is it a big skatingring 10,000 capacity and it
everyone has to watch the musicit's like in the round so you
know I mean there's a stage onone end but I was watching
armored saint and and that'swhen it hit me. No one plays
(04:12):
their own song. Nobody will dotheir own song anybody's in a
thrash band that's they'replaying the songs will have to
stand and watch as their songgets played. That's interesting
to me. So with that being said,Here comes COVID
2000 22,000 22,021 is cancelledcancelled than 2022 comes
around. Then I've got Katyn fromhyrax tab for vocals. I've got
(04:35):
Leah Randy from Lamb of God,I've got Marcus Adwaita are the
main three. And I had no one tosing at home for rehearsals. I
was like, oh shit. So that'swhen Chris Kontos suggested
Norman Skinner, as Oh, yeah,Norman's great. He played the
last forbidden show with hisband Skinner. I've seen him play
in Imagica He's a great singerthat I bet he will do it. So I
(04:57):
called him and asked him youYeah, do anything you want.
That's great. What an honor. Youknow. So he came down and blew
out a bunch of songs thatMetallica Exodus, Death Angel,
you know, all that. And then itcame to the forbidden song. I
said, Well, we were all here. Wemight as well run in it. And it
was in the room at the time. Itwas, myself, Matt Camacho, Steve
Smith and Mark Hernandez whoplayed drums on omega wave. So
(05:20):
we had the poor guys were therefor omega wave. And we started
playing and Matt goes into thebass part, and then it hurts me
and like we're not playing thisfucking song. Why are we doing
it? Like, I'm like, I'm notplaying the song. These guys
aren't. Normal is not even goingwith us. But then the vocals
came in. It was like, holy, Ican say shit, right? Yeah, shit.
(05:41):
Fuck. Plus, he caught me.
Everyone say, you won't get mesay those words the last few
times because they don't reallycome up in my normal dialogue.
They're just saying, holy, holyshit. That was a rolls right
back to I say he sounded likeNorman singing our songs,
(06:01):
convincingly. And I was like,that's really cool. And then the
door opens is Chris Kontos is onthe other side of the door who's
not in the band, because we arenot turning looking to reform.
He's on the other side of door.
He opens it up. And then Haroldthose behind him. They close the
door. And you know, I mean, itsounds great. But I wasn't in
any position or hurry orthinking about it from me. And
(06:23):
I'm like, I just thought, well,at least he could sing the song.
That was cool. And then fastforward, we get back from
Europe. We got to startrehearsing almost immediately
for the next bay area version ofthe show. And we're doing like
30 Something songs. So I calledNorman. I'm like, Norman, you
want to sing a few songs thistime? You did so great. Last
time. I think everybody shouldget to know you. You know, like,
(06:44):
he's got a pretty big followingin the Bay Area. You know, 1000s
and 1000s of people. NobodyNorman is here. But not
necessarily everywhere else.
There's the PROG scene. Theyknow, a little bit over the
power metal scene, but he's notknown for like the Thrash stuff.
But I said, I would like you toSt. Charles blood with the guys
(07:06):
in Warbringer. You're playingthe music. And we'll just watch
you know. So that never happenedin any practice. They don't.
Except for the night before theshow when the guys are
Warbringer showed up. We were atSR in San Francisco. And when
they went to the song, it'sfunny when they're starting to
see Norman kind of like hoppingaround a little bit like getting
ready. Like, okay, he wouldn'tdo that for anything else. And
(07:27):
then they start the song andthey sound great as a band. You
know, I worked with the guitarplayer a little bit and went
over, like how to play stuffbecause he was like, Dude, I
can't make it all out. Nobodycan finish. It's hard. So they,
they were nailing that down. Andthen he comes into the scrim.
And everyone's like, you know,like, okay, and then I just felt
all the eyes. Look at me, man. Iwas like, Oh, shit, you know,
(07:50):
it's becoming more obvious thatthis guy could pull it off. Fast
forward to the show the verynext night. It just you could
multiply that times, you know,700 people that were in the
room, you know, like,everybody's like, Oh my God, it
went over as the best if not oneof the two or three best songs
of the entire night of 30 songs,songs, you know, Metallica
songs, actually the songs thatthey know songs, violent songs,
(08:12):
we did stuff we did sat, he didsabotage, he did. Sirens, we did
sirens. And he's saying that,you know, it's like, just every
time he sings, it's justconvincing. So even then, I
wasn't 100% And I just knew thatit could be done. And it wasn't
till months later, six weeks agoabout now that I got an email
(08:34):
from Alcatraz asking if we wouldbe interested in doing taking an
interactive spot, because theyhad to cancel their tour doing
the 35th anniversary orforbidden evil. And would you
and they I'm paraphrasing wouldyou be interested in bringing
another singer Long's isRussell's retired and possibly
Chris Kontos on drums because itmakes a great story for the
(08:55):
people out here because theylove or my eyes they love you
know that that machine hadrecord is like Ashton in
European folklore. So, but eventhen, that okay, then I just sit
back and I go, okay, okay. I'vegot to take this seriously. I'm
gonna call my manager and see,but it didn't have the drummer
said I wasn't necessarily okaywith playing with Chris at first
(09:17):
because I already played them inthe boneless ones. I didn't want
it to test the boundaries ofeverything we do. So I called my
manager I said do the universeis opening up and he's telling
me I got to do this. I'm gonnafucking do it was you know, he's
like, we're gonna have sayingI'm gonna Skinner he's a
perfect. So I made the calls.
Everybody said yes, yes, yes.
And then I had to figure out adrummer. And I reached out to
(09:37):
Chris first and said, Dude, I'mgoing to do this. And I don't
know if I should do this withyou or without you. And he's
like, Well, what about this guy?
What about that guy? So he'sgiving me all these suggestions
because he was thinking the sameas I was talking to a bunch of
guys are all great famous, butnone of them live here. I was
about to pull the trigger. And Icalled back and said Look, dude,
I've got all these guys thatwant to do it, but none of them
live here. Yo, you're rightbrand we already put Together we
(09:59):
have great chemistry. What arewe thinking? Why are we then
he's like, let's do it. Andthat's how it all kind of came
about.
Chuck Shute (10:08):
All right, awesome.
So they're doing you're doingthat show and then you're gonna
do some other festivals and someother shows that you can't
announce yet. Is that right?
Craig Locicero (10:17):
I can either confirm or deny anything other
than an albatross festival.
Chuck Shute (10:21):
Okay. And then also, I heard you say the you
guys are going to record somecover songs or you may have
already recorded them with a,like Operation IV Black Sabbath
Iron Maiden the sounds exciting.
Craig Locicero (10:31):
Yeah, we did them already. Those will be the
last things we probably willrelease unreleased stuff with
Ross. It was that line up withRoss and Mark Hernandez on it.
And we did it probably in 2011.
After we played frog power. Webecause we had a couple of lives
already put on there too, withJean Hoagland on drums on those,
because Mark couldn't make themake that and that was the kind
(10:53):
of that's my marks not herebecause he had a lot of family
things that were happening. Andhe had to cancel on a lot of
things and pull back from a lotof things. And it's not it's
still the same for him. He can'tjust get up and go when it's
time to go. So it wasn't reallyan option for Mark, but he'll be
on those cover songs. We did.
Yeah, we did. Children are thesea by Sabbath. Remember,
(11:14):
remember tomorrow by maiden? Andall he knows that? I don't know.
Nothing. You know, the operationIV song? Yeah. They're all
great. I mean, we put basicallyplayed a live in ROSS just laid
his vocals on top and fuckingkiller, killer, killer killer.
Chuck Shute (11:32):
Okay, and then we'll though is there going to
be new music with NormanSkinner?
Craig Locicero (11:38):
Yes, that I can tell you I have in the future. I
want to I really want to getback into lyrical content.
Again, I want to write lyricsbecause I wrote the majority of
forbidden lyrics in the pastfrom twisting the formula
onward. And that's something Ilike to do you know, the deep
psychological Ying Yang, youknow, Battle of the mind battle
the brain. Like that's, that'ssomething I've always loved to
(12:02):
do. But I haven't done in yearsbecause I've had singers that
write their own stuff. And Iwant you know, Norman knows how
it works. And he's like, show meshow me, you know, he wants to
work with me. He's actually sohungry to learn, like, you know,
and have a thrash metal attackto what he's doing was
forbidden, by the way, forbiddenwas the first thrash metal band
(12:22):
he ever saw live.
Chuck Shute (12:25):
I heard you say he was a fan, obviously. Very much.
So. Yeah. Tell me about
Craig Locicero (12:30):
those old days that tell you. I gotta tell you,
Russ used to literally point outand call a little restaurant
crowd.
Chuck Shute (12:38):
Wow, how much younger? Is he?
Craig Locicero (12:42):
Probably not quite 10 years younger than the
rest of us. Okay, because we'reall in our early 50s. You know,
I mean, I was 18 when werecorded for being able to.
That's,
Chuck Shute (12:55):
that's crazy. So yeah, tell me about those days,
though, because I'm alwaysfascinated with music scenes. I
love the Sunset Strip scene. Igrew up in Seattle in the 90s.
So there's the 90 Seattle scenebut the Bay Area thrash scene. I
mean, that's legendary, too. Yougot Metallica, and Exodus and
testament and was the other oneslike Death Angel and
Craig Locicero (13:15):
Angel. Death, Angel violence, forbidden heat,
even blind illusion, defiance.
And then it goes on sacrilege bcI mean, there's so many great
bands that were out here. Andit's one of a kind. It's the
only scene where you could pulloff something like we do with
Bay Area. And it's rational,where everybody comes there to
(13:36):
support each other. Whoever's intown is available. And we get
together and we play each otherstuff, you know? Yeah, I don't
think I don't think there's anyscene anywhere in the world.
Maybe Seattle might do it. Butit's just really hard for people
to get up there and do stufflike that. And then there's also
the thing of like, like I said,Nobody plays their own song and
(13:58):
taking the time to do that Ithink are seen as a little more
respectful and cognizant of eachother where they would actually
try to learn and put the time into do it.
Chuck Shute (14:09):
Mm hmm. And you toured with you did some shows
with Exodus. Did you ever doshows with Metallica? Or did you
ever even see them? Because theywere I guess you guys started at
five they were they were prettybig. By then. Were they still in
the Bay Area?
Craig Locicero (14:21):
They were hanging out I'd see them from
time to time and I've seen themplenty of times and I was lucky
enough to buy I bought kill themall the day it came out. I was
14 years old. I came and I wentto San Francisco by myself on
BART and bought that album. AndI did the same thing when ride
lightning came out. I boughtthat out in San Francisco too.
So I'm a ground level Metallicaguy. Yeah, but then never I
(14:44):
never played with them directly.
We've done shows where remembersthat I've jammed with Robert
Trujillo with Rob Leonardfriends thing. I actually
squatted lower than him. He wasamazed I can get lower than he
went. Yeah, the funny littlething is some fun but ya know
there They're, they're Metallicaman, this is like, you know,
it's iconic. But it's so funnybecause just recently, there's a
video that came out wherethey're talking about. I don't
(15:06):
know if you saw it, but it justcame out like a week ago. And
they were talking about they'redoing their live jam before
rehearsing before their tour. Orthey sit in the room together.
Yeah, we're talking abouteverybody playing Smoke on the
Water like hundreds of peopleand then are Saba true Saba
true. And then hundreds ofpeople played spoke on the
(15:27):
water. And then then largest thebiggest. Yeah, next thing to do
songs like for being there was alot like other night it was a
joke, like a were obscure, bethe shits hard to play. And
that's what he was really saved.
Like, you couldn't get a bucket.
You know, 100 500 people to playfor business on fucking sound
like ass money.
Chuck Shute (15:50):
But that's what I mean. Like they were clearly
because Lars is such a musicnerd too. Like he's clearly
aware of you guys and a fan ofyou guys.
Craig Locicero (15:57):
Well, yeah, go Sure. I mean, yeah, yeah. I
don't know what they listen today to day, but Lars is well
versed in the Bay Area. Healways kind of he's brought us
up a few times, you know, likeBen's crazy stuff obscure, you
know, because I mean, we were acult band. We weren't like,
forbidden never. We were on ourway to commercial success in in
bytes at 1991 We're toying withdeath angel. Both our albums
(16:20):
were just exploding, you know,we they're doing actory we're
twisting the form and bothalbums are doing great. And
everything was marked towardsthat direction. But everything
changed. It wasn't you know,early 90 or late 91, early 92
You know, the Seattle industrycompletely flipped the thrash
metal industry over and deathmetal you know, and stuff like
(16:41):
that was the only real survivorsPanthera Slayer kind of
survived. I mean, they came backlater but it took them a while
like, you know Metallica has anestablishment but the rest of us
testament Exodus that angelforbidden all of them we all
just got discarded every one ofus we were not the only ones
Yeah, could those guys came backor broke up for a while and came
(17:04):
back death angel broke uptestament almost changed your
name to dogface gods to try tofit in you know, like everything
was Exodus broke up. Likeeverybody kind of just we kept
going longer than the rest ofthem as a matter of fact Oh,
except for Testament they havegone but as a matter of fact out
of the bay area we were the lastones to disband and 97
Chuck Shute (17:23):
Yeah, well and then I heard this tell me the story
is true that your drummer Paulbo staff who obviously would
later join Slayer, like you arethe one that showed him Slayer
like you were playing the rainand blood album at a party and
he walked in and he goes and hewas like, holy shit our band is
fucked because like Slayer wasso the album was so good boom
away.
Craig Locicero (17:45):
I don't know about the our band is fuck part
because that album came out inrandom blog came out in 8686.
And he had just joinedforbidden. Yeah, so he was
getting introduced to thrashmetal. He wasn't really too hip
to it. You know, like, Paul waslike, cozy Powell or, you know,
like one of those kinds ofdrummers, but he had he was
(18:07):
willing to learn how to playdouble bass. So that's how he
kind of won the gig. He stole itfrom his fucking cousin. Jim
Pittman was his cousin. And thenthe Jim Pitman's other cousin,
Pete one of the gig too, sothere was a battle of the family
where they're all mad at eachother. Which was interesting,
interesting time, but Paul isnot very hip to thrash metal so
Slayer definitely, like a wokensomething in him where he
(18:31):
realized he can go unbridledcrazy, and that's where he kind
of turned it on and forbiddenevil. And when we started
writing songs from that pointforward, he definitely use more
Lombardo influence, you know,but in a positive way different
drummer than David Bartowcompletely.
Chuck Shute (18:45):
Hmm, yeah, Lombardo is insane to those both amazing
drummers tell explain to me,though, like, this is a crazy
story. I heard you. I think I'veheard you mentioned this a
couple times, where how yourmanager, you guys were being
shopped to different labels andyour manager turned down a
bigger label? Is that Is thatwhat happened? Because they
weren't ready or something, butdoesn't make any sense to me?
Craig Locicero (19:08):
Well, it's Debbie abodo. So first of all,
she's like a mom, you know, shewas like, she loved us. And she
didn't think okay, what yougotta understand about Debbie is
she didn't think any of thesebands were gonna have any
staying power. She thoughteverything was just a trend. It
was gonna be over in a minute.
You know, she's not like,totally hip to the music, but
she always judged by and by thereaction that other people gave
them. Right? So her whole thingwas forbidden is like, while
(19:31):
everyone else loves them, theymust be really good, because she
only mentioned possessed beforethat. So she went from possess
who her daughter was datingLarry lawan and said, I'm not
going to do that anymore. To mecalling cold call on the phone.
Hey, I'm Craig. I playedforbidden evil and you'll love
us that she's like, I don'tknow. So she did. Learn to love
us as people and knew the musicwas obviously going over well
(19:55):
with people and then Fastforward, we're on the forbidden
evil tour. And we didn't knowanything about this, actually,
so we didn't know anything aboutit. But while we were on that
tour, Rick Rubin had approachedher and asked if he could take
(20:16):
the band off of combat, he'swilling to buy us out of combat
and bring us over to Def Jam.
Because he loved for renewal.
And we unbeknownst to us, wenever found this out until we
were on tour with death. In oneeye, she was mad at us. He's Oh,
yeah, that's why I never toldRick Rubin. Because you guys
(20:38):
aren't ready for it. And we'relike, What are you talking
about? And it just, it madeeverybody really shocked. But I
remember pissed off Paul themost. You know, he was so upset.
And we loved me, dude, we lovedher up to that point. But that's
kind of why we were like, afterthat the relationship as a
manager kind of went downhillbecause we had a hard time like,
we could have been doing this.
(21:01):
But I but I look at it likethis. I don't I don't think
there's any regret in that now.
Because twisted in the form whenthat happened. Rick would have
wanted us to continue doing whatwe did not forbidden evil, which
is cool. But it was, you know,he saw he liked the bombastic
kind of like, childishplayfulness to the whole thing.
And then the amount of growingwe did, we got Tim Calvert
(21:22):
abandoned him and I workingtogether really lifted us to the
level that, you know, ourreputations kind of hinges on
how mature the music turned intofrom that point moving forward,
you know, and a lot of growing.
I mean, I went from being 2019and Megan, are 18, to make it
forbidden evil, to be a 20 tomake it twisted. And for me that
seemed like like years ago, andhad Rick been involved. That
(21:45):
would have been cool for theband brand. But I don't think we
would have he would have wantedus to do the same kind of thing
would have been compromised, andmore than likely. So that's why
I look at it. And I know that Ihave this verified for very good
authority, regrouping himself.
Because I signed to recruitmentslabel with man, may God and him
and him and I had later after Iplayed for him, and he was, you
(22:07):
know, he's blown away by theband. I'm walking outside. I'm
like, Hey, Rick, I don't know ifyou know who I am. But I'm
Craig. I played that bid forbid. And he's like, Oh, I wanted
to sign you guys isn't yourmanagers just stonewalled me? He
just flat out said no. Why wasthat I'm like, we kind of had a
conversation. And yeah, fromthat point on, he kind of
realized that I was more thanjust a rock guy for sure.
Chuck Shute (22:30):
Yeah, well, no, it's interesting, because I
heard you talking about manmadeGod. And you were saying, Oh,
this is one of those bands. Thatwould have been huge. And I kind
of roll my eyes and go, Yeah, Ihear that in interviews all the
time. So I but I'm like, I'mcurious. I'll check it out. I
listened. I was like, holy shit.
This is really good stuff. Soexplain the story with that and
explain how was this the onethat Doug Goldstein was possibly
(22:51):
going to be involved with whoseGuns and Roses manager they
tried to get he was,
Craig Locicero (22:57):
he was dug, dug.
There's so many levels of thisstory. It's a very interesting
time in my life. Because
Chuck Shute (23:04):
the plan is really good. I mean, people should
check it out.
Craig Locicero (23:07):
Yeah, well, it's the only band that I played in,
where people literally get tearyeyed talking about it. You know,
like it moves them emotionally.
There's things just, there'striggers that everyone's got
deep in their subconscious intheir soul. And we hit on a lot
of those triggers. We hit a lotof emotional ebbs and flows. And
so people end up not justlistening to the album, but
(23:29):
falling in love with it, youknow, including the people that
worked on it, like Sean Bevinmixed in to this day. It's like
one of his favorite records heever did. You know, he did all
the Nine Inch Nails stuff, andMarilyn Manson stuff and
countless, you know, countlessthings. But just the other day,
he sent me a video of himplaying the record with his wife
and watching their cat play. Andhe's like, Dude, it's still just
(23:51):
moved me. But uh, yeah, I mean,it was a time of my life. It was
very exciting time in life,because forbidden ended in 97.
So 9899, I was doing a veryexperimental version of me God.
And we had a singer that was outof his mind. Very talented,
taught me how to be an artist.
You know, he taught me to notworry as much about what I
(24:12):
remember. I had a rip. I lovethese. Oh, yeah, that was cool.
I'm like, Yeah, but it's great.
He's like, it's alright, he'son. But you got a million more
behind that. So that's stuckwith me. His name was Mike
Sullivan. I know that. That'show I roll into things now. So
somebody doesn't love something.
It'll be alright. Again, anotherone, you know, so that he taught
me that but then, you know, healso had a serious drug problem.
So we ended up letting him goand finding this guy pan through
(24:36):
an ad. And as soon as we had himall that weird, kind of all over
the place music we were writingimmediately became cohesive and
became like, rock staples. Andit wasn't people are like yeah,
you kind of like sell garlic.
No, it was way more likeforeigner or bad company. But
like a heavy heavy versionsapling you know, like It was
(24:58):
just you know, it should justtook off as soon as soon as pan
got the band, and we made ademo, we were getting constantly
bombarded with by record labels,because it was the heyday of
labels were still prevalent and,you know, putting money into
things and trying to make bandshuge, there was still an
(25:19):
industry. So we were at the tailend of all that, and Fast
forward to about a year after hegot the band, and every label is
trying to sign us. That's whenwe got the call from Rick's
people. So that's how that allcame about. And then Rick, Rick
said his main guy, you know,Brady's down to see us and are
up to see us actually from LA.
(25:42):
And within a few minutes, he'slike making plans on his
BlackBerry to fly us and all ofour gear down to LA to play for
Rick Rubin two days later. Andthese are things you just don't
hear about anymore. They don'tthey don't happen. So yeah, I
mean, yeah, I can't imaginerolling your eyes hearing that
story. Like, but
Chuck Shute (26:01):
no, but it was really good band.
Craig Locicero (26:06):
Thank you. I don't embellish much. I really
don't I the thing is I my careerhas been full of like, almost
just about Mr. Buy that much.
And I'm still not bitter. Idon't know, man. I've been lucky
enough to do things with verytalented people.
Chuck Shute (26:22):
But what do you think you could if you've looked
back? Is there things that youwould have done differently that
you because I look at the manman, God, I listened to
forbidden? I mean, even like, Imean, all your stuff is really
good. What's the other one withthe girl singer dressed the
dead? Like, you've done so manycool things? Like what do you
think you're missing that wouldtake it to that next level,
(26:45):
like,
Craig Locicero (26:47):
you know, I mean, I hate to probably the
decision that I have to lay outmy footstep. More than the other
one is sometimes relying toomuch on people that deep down
inside, I know, might not beable to do the long haul. You
know, like I love them for onereason or another musically,
(27:08):
super. But you got to you know,when it comes down to bed, you
gotta be down for the cause yougot to be like, really down and
be able to get up and go and dothings when it needs to happen.
It's a different industry. Now.
You don't have to do everythingyou should you should say no to
more than you say yes, do now.
Because there's not a lot of,you know, fiscal sets in playing
music anymore. You know, so youjust got to pick and choose what
(27:32):
you in forbidden. I can do that.
I can pick the right things andreally concentrate on the music.
But yeah, I think the biggestthing is relying on other folks
that probably weren't there theywere maybe had been reliable as
friends and reliable as peoplebut just couldn't be reliable in
the music industry. And that'sdefinitely what happened with
man, they got our singer prettymuch imploded, because he
(27:54):
thought we should be huge, likeovernight and didn't understand
how much work is involvedwinning people over night after
night. That wasn't what hewasn't really up for that. So I
kind of pulled up I pulled theplug on it, because I just felt
like it was just gonna go onforever. You would never quit
understand.
Chuck Shute (28:11):
Let's see that. One thing I don't think I've ever
heard you talk about was youplayed on Jeff Tate's album, The
Jeff Tate's queens, right, Ithink it was called before now I
think he just goes by Jeff Tate,but you played rhythm guitar on
that album 10 tracks, but you'relisted as an additional
position.
Craig Locicero (28:27):
I played all the guitars on that album. And I
could have done the solos too.
But Jeff had this brilliant ideato get guests, everybody Oh my
god. But uh, no, that was weird.
Jason Slater that passed away isa great friend of mine. And he
approached me because Jeffwanted to write a heavier record
wanted to write a kind of a fuckyou record. And I was like,
(28:50):
okay, you know, that soundsweird. And the whole thing up
for the onset, I told him, I'lldo it under the premise that we
can work on him every day andtalk him into dropping the
Queen's right name because it'snot going to be a queen's
record. So we did. Every day. Weset it to him like one way or
another We'd sneak it in. Howare we going to put it the
conversation today? We had thislittle conspiracy, but he was he
(29:12):
was fighting with Queensland getthe time to win the name. So
he's a no, it's got to be this.
I already signed a record dealand I've already got paid for
Queensland combined. Okay, youknow, it's your, your business
decision. But it wasinteresting. And he was really
nice. You know, he's, he'sreally nice. And to me, to this
day, I will say that Jeff Taterolls out of bed with great
(29:34):
melodies in his head. You know,that's, that's what he does
best. Like his. His melodies arecool on that record, but the
record was rushed. It was likebasically a collection of demos
that I re recorded. And or wrotesomething on that spot. I wrote
90% of that music, rewrote it onthe spot. figured out something
cool to play there. I'll recordit. Oh, my God, dude, again,
double it, then. Can I harmonizeit maybe, you know, I was like,
(29:58):
I didn't even have time to like,do all I add I also wanted to
bring Tim Calvin aboard becausehe was the huge Queens right
fan. But Tim was flying and hedidn't have time and they
weren't willing to pay him. Theywere like, no, nobody else we
got it. It was a weird thing,man. But, uh, at the end of it
when I listened to it now, I'mlike, those are really cool
demos. You know, they don'tsound like an album to me.
Chuck Shute (30:22):
And you didn't get to tour whether you didn't get
to play live or anything.
Craig Locicero (30:26):
Didn't get to or chose not to. Okay, fair enough.
I didn't want to be I didn'twant to be associated with that
stuff. I really did. I'm proudthat I got to work with Jeff and
that's a cool thing to have on aresume. Yeah, that's cool. You
know, whatever. It's not itdoesn't sit. It sits like the
lower third you know, but, but Imean, I got you know, I'm not
(30:48):
real happy with how he treatedJason Slater's who's since
passed away. I have a realproblem with the the way that he
kind of threw Jason under thebus it was his fault. When that
record is all Jeff Tate and hiswife forcing the issue making us
work on it, making sure that ithad to come out in a certain
amount of time when it wouldI'll tell you right now if I
(31:09):
would have had another threemonths to actually work on songs
and then bring them in and thenhave a real band to play with
and another guitar player toplay off of it would have been
way better you know, but Ididn't get any of those
opportunities you know they paidme was all right. I mean nothing
that I can listen to it now andI there's some songs I really
(31:32):
like but they're not none ofthem sound complete
Chuck Shute (31:35):
any blame Jason Slater for the failure of it?
Craig Locicero (31:39):
Yeah, because Jason's not around to defend
himself Jason's exact wordswould be you can suck up fucking
Deke Deke in there.
Chuck Shute (31:49):
Are you did swear all right, I like it. Yeah,
well, this
Craig Locicero (31:53):
is a great friend of mine. Yeah. Great
brand. Yeah.
Chuck Shute (31:56):
And gosh, he says so many good bands. The other
one I haven't really listened tothe boneless ones. That's a
pumpkin thrash crossover. Do youare you gonna continue with some
of these side projects isforbidden going to be your main
focus right now?
Craig Locicero (32:11):
Well, I mean, I don't have like a side project I
have things that I concentrateon. You know, like everything
goes to the side when I'mconcentrating on that including
the front end bonus ones forbins on the side are dressed
dead and you know what otherpeople would view it as because
there's the hierarchy offorbidden with the that's all
side projects but forbidden. Butto me I've been into everything
(32:31):
I've done. And the bonus onesit's funny the last interview I
did the guys have popped in andhe's like, loves the bonus ones
records. It did really, reallywell get great reviews. There
are legacy skate rock act outhere in the Bay Area. Their song
skate for the devil was votednumber one skate rock song of
all time by Thrasher Magazine.
And I didn't know that tillafter I joined the band, but
I've seen them when I was a kid.
(32:55):
I saw with Chris contestsplaying it was like their last
show at the UC Berkeley campusand they blew my mind was a
guitar player was a shredder andI thought that leads will lead
to good for punk rock becausewhat my exact thoughts at the
time come years later theyreforming Chris gets a hold of
me because I need to get guitarplayer because the other guy
didn't have the chops to playall the Thrash stuff. Like you
(33:15):
know, he was good guitar playerbut like kind of a blues guys.
Like it's just not working bro.
So I went and met the guys. Ilove them. I remembered how much
I love them. And then we startedwriting record and it turned out
great. So that's what that is,you know, and we're gonna we're
playing Dynamo this year. Afterforbidden please Alcatraz a week
later. We already had the Dynamobook for boneless ones way
before this forbidden thing evercame about. So it's like, Hey,
(33:38):
we got two less flights to payfor it's pretty cool. Oh, we're
gonna be there. We're gonna bethere, man. It's it's perfect
timing. And then everyone'slooking at the Bose one is like,
hey, there's those two guys thatare in for bidding up there with
a skate rock band. You know, butit's heavy. It's fine. It's it's
a really energetic album. Okay,cool. Lots of shredding. I get I
get to play a lot of solos onthat record where I don't
(34:00):
usually lean into them as much.
Chuck Shute (34:03):
Okay, and then we can look forward to some
possible would you possibly tourwith forbidden or you can't you
still can't say anything. Butpossibly maybe.
Craig Locicero (34:13):
I think a lot. I think touring is going to be
tactical touring. Like I wassaying, I don't think going out
for a month and a half andhitting everywhere in the United
States is never going to besomething that's worth doing.
Chuck Shute (34:24):
Maybe like weekend stuff like casino shows or
something like that.
Craig Locicero (34:28):
No casinos, festivals. Were already being
offered festivals for all nextyear. Okay, I'm just telling you
that right now, like almostevery festival worth its salt
has already got a hold of us oris waiting to see what we're
going to do next. And so with alot of European festivals of us
festivals, I think itconcentrating on me writing rich
(34:48):
renew record is the mostprevalent thing. I want to write
new music and so after we finishout the trails, I'm gonna come
home and really delve into thatfor a few months. And I think
that's More important thananything else more and more
important than living off theglory of the past is building on
something for the future. No,
Chuck Shute (35:07):
no, absolutely. And I that's what I kind of love
about music now is like, youdon't need to have the big major
label record, you can just putout your own stuff and bands are
putting out some of the greatestmaterial of their careers, I
think, because they're maturingand they don't, they don't need,
they don't have to listen to therecord labels. They do it this
way, do it that way they do ithow they want, it sounds great.
Craig Locicero (35:26):
Well, record labels don't carry much sway
with it when it comes to thatanyway. You know, we're still
technically on a nuclear blastanyway. So already on record
label.
Chuck Shute (35:35):
Yeah. And that's like with I mean, they're like,
chill, they're not like, tryingto chase it. Right.
Craig Locicero (35:40):
A forbidden record. Yeah. And I know how to
write it forbidden record,because I've been writing them
since I was, you know, a youngteen. Yeah, no, that's not It's
not hard for me.
Chuck Shute (35:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, we look forward to that.
And then I'll let you get to asyou have another interview or
Craig Locicero (35:57):
No, but I've got my guitar right back here that
I'm going to pick up and startworking on. Today's my first day
of really digging in and dustingoff a lot of the old songs I
knew I had three months it's May1, I got three months and 11 or
10 days and so I begin my it'sin my DNA it's not like it's
hard to play forbidden shit, butit is like catching up your arm
(36:19):
speed and your it's just a lotgoing on. So timesavers David
dig in.
Chuck Shute (36:24):
Okay, cool. Well let you get back to it. I always
end promoting as a charity ornonprofit that you want to
promote here at the end. Ialways end with that.
Craig Locicero (36:32):
Anything for the ALS Foundation in any state that
you're in? City, you know, theUnited State donate to ALS I
have. We lost him Calvert, toALS, my old guitar player for
forbidden and my best friend issuffering from a right now my
friend Bill shields who was inSt. Louis. I know a lot of
people you know lost friends toit. So it's the probably the
(36:55):
most inexplicable and applicablehorrible debilitating disease
there is it eventually shuts allyour your motor function and
your organs down one by one. Oh,yeah. My brain. Your brains
elastic go.
Chuck Shute (37:09):
Yeah, my uncle had I think he had I think his was
different. It was MLS it's likevery similar, though. Yeah, just
shuts down your whole body. It'sreally sad to see. And so if we
get a cure for that,
Craig Locicero (37:19):
that will give them a less is more pain more
painful, even. But yeah, it's alittle different. That starts I
think your muscles contract withMLS or Ms. Ms. You're thinking
multiple multiple sclerosis.
Yes,
Chuck Shute (37:32):
no, I forget. But yeah, it was similar to that
kind of thing. It's just hard tosee. And, yeah, if we could get
I'll put that in the link in theshow notes along with of course,
the forbidden links, and peoplecan follow you guys on social
media and all that stuff. So
Craig Locicero (37:46):
it's all their Facebook, official forbidden.com
If you want to buy our officialmerch, you know, Instagram, we
just created Instagram. We justcreated our Instagram page, just
to pre preface the announcementthat we're back. So it's like
it's been for about two and ahalf, almost three weeks into
that. And so that's grown ratherquickly.
Chuck Shute (38:06):
Okay, cool. Well, thanks, Craig. I appreciate it.
And if you get hit a Phoenix,I'll come see you guys if I'm
around.
Craig Locicero (38:13):
Awesome, man. I appreciate the time and yeah,
good question.
Chuck Shute (38:17):
All right. Thank you. I'll see you later. Peace.
Bye bye. My thanks again toCraig make sure to follow him
and forbidden on social media.
Check out some of the otherbands he's played with. Manmade
God was definitely very cool. Ifyou liked that 90s rock sound. I
enjoyed it. Make sure to supporthim with buying merch or ticket
to a live show. Or at the veryleast commenting liking stuff on
(38:39):
social media YouTube helps outand that goes for us to sharing
the episodes. These podcastshelps out a lot. And of course,
make sure you're subscribedwherever you watch or listen, I
appreciate all your support. Andso do the guests. Have a great
rest of your day and shoot forthe moon?
Craiglist Cicero the guitarist from Bay Area
(00:02):
thrash band forbidden is heretoday. And if you missed
forbidden now's a great time todiscover them. They have now had
a rebirth with new singer NormanSkinner, and we're going to talk
all about that and the plans forthe band. Also, we're going to
talk about his time with theproject man made God and working
with Rick Rubin and his work onan album with Jeff Tate. So all
(00:25):
this and more coming right upwelcome, I think I can say it
right now. I practiced this.
Craig Lowe Cicero.
Craig Locicero (00:45):
You said it correctly. All right, we got it
so forbidden is back. It's uh,this is like kind of like a
rebirth is what you're callingit of the band. Yeah, yeah, it's
not really a it's not areformulation or we're even a
rehash or, I mean, with the twonew guys
you know, in the experience theybring and savvy and you know,
(01:09):
all that good stuff. It's, it'snot the same as the RE formation
that happened last time around.
What do they call that though?
There's a word for that andreboot called while there's
reboot to though but the wordthat everyone likes us or
anytime reunion. It's not. Meand Matt Camacho have been
friends entirely seat, you know,the entire time since we were 15
(01:34):
and 16 years old, respectively.
So it's not we're not reuniting.
And same with Steve Smith. Wetalk to him often, you know,
that it is a rebirth with ChrisKontos and Norman Skinner.
Chuck Shute (01:46):
Yeah, it's still gonna be forbidden. I mean, it's
still three fifths of the bandand the singers. He can sing all
the old stuff. The same, right?
Oh, yeah.
Craig Locicero (01:55):
Yeah. The same is a relative term. When he
first started singing it at thefirst practice. We heard when we
were not even this was not evena thing, dude. But he, there's a
story behind that. But when hedid start singing off the head
the first time, it didn't soundlike Roz. It sounded like a guy
who owned it. Who had similarpowers or us like similar
(02:19):
powers. You know, he wasn'ttrying to like I'm not
interested in karaoke. You know?
Like, if Bruce Dickinson triedto sing Les Paul the piano.
Like, that's not really good.
You got it. You got to beyourself. And that's what he is.
That's why he earned my respect,because it just sounded like
Norman Skinner singing aforbidden song. And Skinner is
already a great singer. Yeah.
And you knew him because youguys were in this, like cover
(02:41):
tribute band, the Bay Areathrash band, international.
Chuck Shute (02:48):
I love that's a great name.
Craig Locicero (02:50):
So I'm good at coming. I'm good at coming up
with slogans. I should have madesome money off things like that.
But no, yeah. It wasn't really.
We didn't look at as a coverband. Would you like me explain
how that came about? And I guessYeah. Okay. All right. Well, it
starts with the folks at dynamo,the newer Dynamo Dynamo Metal
(03:10):
Fest, not the old Dynamo openair. But there was the guys that
used to go to Dynamo open air,who, who got the name and
started redoing it. And theywrote me an email. And because
they've shared with the Tteacher check, wrote me and
asked me if I would beinterested in heading any kind
(03:30):
of Bay Area thrash tribute,because he knows that I work
with Rob Lin tightly on theruffling and print stuff and I
was kind of like the, themusical organizer, you know,
until Rob gets his hands in it,and then he does what he does,
but so he knew that I was kindof good at organizing things.
But I said that sounds kind ofboring, fly me out there and we
(03:52):
take a look at all so this is2019 and I went and checked it
out and I love the new setupbecause this was the very old
setup of Is it a big skatingring 10,000 capacity and it
everyone has to watch the musicit's like in the round so you
know I mean there's a stage onone end but I was watching
armored saint and and that'swhen it hit me. No one plays
(04:12):
their own song. Nobody will dotheir own song anybody's in a
thrash band that's they'replaying the songs will have to
stand and watch as their songgets played. That's interesting
to me. So with that being said,Here comes COVID
2000 22,000 22,021 is cancelledcancelled than 2022 comes
around. Then I've got Katyn fromhyrax tab for vocals. I've got
(04:35):
Leah Randy from Lamb of God,I've got Marcus Adwaita are the
main three. And I had no one tosing at home for rehearsals. I
was like, oh shit. So that'swhen Chris Kontos suggested
Norman Skinner, as Oh, yeah,Norman's great. He played the
last forbidden show with hisband Skinner. I've seen him play
in Imagica He's a great singerthat I bet he will do it. So I
(04:57):
called him and asked him youYeah, do anything you want.
That's great. What an honor. Youknow. So he came down and blew
out a bunch of songs thatMetallica Exodus, Death Angel,
you know, all that. And then itcame to the forbidden song. I
said, Well, we were all here. Wemight as well run in it. And it
was in the room at the time. Itwas, myself, Matt Camacho, Steve
Smith and Mark Hernandez whoplayed drums on omega wave. So
(05:20):
we had the poor guys were therefor omega wave. And we started
playing and Matt goes into thebass part, and then it hurts me
and like we're not playing thisfucking song. Why are we doing
it? Like, I'm like, I'm notplaying the song. These guys
aren't. Normal is not even goingwith us. But then the vocals
came in. It was like, holy, Ican say shit, right? Yeah, shit.
(05:41):
Fuck. Plus, he caught me.
Everyone say, you won't get mesay those words the last few
times because they don't reallycome up in my normal dialogue.
They're just saying, holy, holyshit. That was a rolls right
back to I say he sounded likeNorman singing our songs,
(06:01):
convincingly. And I was like,that's really cool. And then the
door opens is Chris Kontos is onthe other side of the door who's
not in the band, because we arenot turning looking to reform.
He's on the other side of door.
He opens it up. And then Haroldthose behind him. They close the
door. And you know, I mean, itsounds great. But I wasn't in
any position or hurry orthinking about it from me. And
(06:23):
I'm like, I just thought, well,at least he could sing the song.
That was cool. And then fastforward, we get back from
Europe. We got to startrehearsing almost immediately
for the next bay area version ofthe show. And we're doing like
30 Something songs. So I calledNorman. I'm like, Norman, you
want to sing a few songs thistime? You did so great. Last
time. I think everybody shouldget to know you. You know, like,
(06:44):
he's got a pretty big followingin the Bay Area. You know, 1000s
and 1000s of people. NobodyNorman is here. But not
necessarily everywhere else.
There's the PROG scene. Theyknow, a little bit over the
power metal scene, but he's notknown for like the Thrash stuff.
But I said, I would like you toSt. Charles blood with the guys
(07:06):
in Warbringer. You're playingthe music. And we'll just watch
you know. So that never happenedin any practice. They don't.
Except for the night before theshow when the guys are
Warbringer showed up. We were atSR in San Francisco. And when
they went to the song, it'sfunny when they're starting to
see Norman kind of like hoppingaround a little bit like getting
ready. Like, okay, he wouldn'tdo that for anything else. And
(07:27):
then they start the song andthey sound great as a band. You
know, I worked with the guitarplayer a little bit and went
over, like how to play stuffbecause he was like, Dude, I
can't make it all out. Nobodycan finish. It's hard. So they,
they were nailing that down. Andthen he comes into the scrim.
And everyone's like, you know,like, okay, and then I just felt
all the eyes. Look at me, man. Iwas like, Oh, shit, you know,
(07:50):
it's becoming more obvious thatthis guy could pull it off. Fast
forward to the show the verynext night. It just you could
multiply that times, you know,700 people that were in the
room, you know, like,everybody's like, Oh my God, it
went over as the best if not oneof the two or three best songs
of the entire night of 30 songs,songs, you know, Metallica
songs, actually the songs thatthey know songs, violent songs,
(08:12):
we did stuff we did sat, he didsabotage, he did. Sirens, we did
sirens. And he's saying that,you know, it's like, just every
time he sings, it's justconvincing. So even then, I
wasn't 100% And I just knew thatit could be done. And it wasn't
till months later, six weeks agoabout now that I got an email
(08:34):
from Alcatraz asking if we wouldbe interested in doing taking an
interactive spot, because theyhad to cancel their tour doing
the 35th anniversary orforbidden evil. And would you
and they I'm paraphrasing wouldyou be interested in bringing
another singer Long's isRussell's retired and possibly
Chris Kontos on drums because itmakes a great story for the
(08:55):
people out here because theylove or my eyes they love you
know that that machine hadrecord is like Ashton in
European folklore. So, but eventhen, that okay, then I just sit
back and I go, okay, okay. I'vegot to take this seriously. I'm
gonna call my manager and see,but it didn't have the drummer
said I wasn't necessarily okaywith playing with Chris at first
(09:17):
because I already played them inthe boneless ones. I didn't want
it to test the boundaries ofeverything we do. So I called my
manager I said do the universeis opening up and he's telling
me I got to do this. I'm gonnafucking do it was you know, he's
like, we're gonna have sayingI'm gonna Skinner he's a
perfect. So I made the calls.
Everybody said yes, yes, yes.
And then I had to figure out adrummer. And I reached out to
(09:37):
Chris first and said, Dude, I'mgoing to do this. And I don't
know if I should do this withyou or without you. And he's
like, Well, what about this guy?
What about that guy? So he'sgiving me all these suggestions
because he was thinking the sameas I was talking to a bunch of
guys are all great famous, butnone of them live here. I was
about to pull the trigger. And Icalled back and said Look, dude,
I've got all these guys thatwant to do it, but none of them
live here. Yo, you're rightbrand we already put Together we
(09:59):
have great chemistry. What arewe thinking? Why are we then
he's like, let's do it. Andthat's how it all kind of came
about.
Chuck Shute (10:08):
All right, awesome.
So they're doing you're doingthat show and then you're gonna
do some other festivals and someother shows that you can't
announce yet. Is that right?
Craig Locicero (10:17):
I can either confirm or deny anything other
than an albatross festival.
Chuck Shute (10:21):
Okay. And then also, I heard you say the you
guys are going to record somecover songs or you may have
already recorded them with a,like Operation IV Black Sabbath
Iron Maiden the sounds exciting.
Craig Locicero (10:31):
Yeah, we did them already. Those will be the
last things we probably willrelease unreleased stuff with
Ross. It was that line up withRoss and Mark Hernandez on it.
And we did it probably in 2011.
After we played frog power. Webecause we had a couple of lives
already put on there too, withJean Hoagland on drums on those,
because Mark couldn't make themake that and that was the kind
(10:53):
of that's my marks not herebecause he had a lot of family
things that were happening. Andhe had to cancel on a lot of
things and pull back from a lotof things. And it's not it's
still the same for him. He can'tjust get up and go when it's
time to go. So it wasn't reallyan option for Mark, but he'll be
on those cover songs. We did.
Yeah, we did. Children are thesea by Sabbath. Remember,
(11:14):
remember tomorrow by maiden? Andall he knows that? I don't know.
Nothing. You know, the operationIV song? Yeah. They're all
great. I mean, we put basicallyplayed a live in ROSS just laid
his vocals on top and fuckingkiller, killer, killer killer.
Chuck Shute (11:32):
Okay, and then we'll though is there going to
be new music with NormanSkinner?
Craig Locicero (11:38):
Yes, that I can tell you I have in the future. I
want to I really want to getback into lyrical content.
Again, I want to write lyricsbecause I wrote the majority of
forbidden lyrics in the pastfrom twisting the formula
onward. And that's something Ilike to do you know, the deep
psychological Ying Yang, youknow, Battle of the mind battle
the brain. Like that's, that'ssomething I've always loved to
(12:02):
do. But I haven't done in yearsbecause I've had singers that
write their own stuff. And Iwant you know, Norman knows how
it works. And he's like, show meshow me, you know, he wants to
work with me. He's actually sohungry to learn, like, you know,
and have a thrash metal attackto what he's doing was
forbidden, by the way, forbiddenwas the first thrash metal band
(12:22):
he ever saw live.
Chuck Shute (12:25):
I heard you say he was a fan, obviously. Very much.
So. Yeah. Tell me about
Craig Locicero (12:30):
those old days that tell you. I gotta tell you,
Russ used to literally point outand call a little restaurant
crowd.
Chuck Shute (12:38):
Wow, how much younger? Is he?
Craig Locicero (12:42):
Probably not quite 10 years younger than the
rest of us. Okay, because we'reall in our early 50s. You know,
I mean, I was 18 when werecorded for being able to.
That's,
Chuck Shute (12:55):
that's crazy. So yeah, tell me about those days,
though, because I'm alwaysfascinated with music scenes. I
love the Sunset Strip scene. Igrew up in Seattle in the 90s.
So there's the 90 Seattle scenebut the Bay Area thrash scene. I
mean, that's legendary, too. Yougot Metallica, and Exodus and
testament and was the other oneslike Death Angel and
Craig Locicero (13:15):
Angel. Death, Angel violence, forbidden heat,
even blind illusion, defiance.
And then it goes on sacrilege bcI mean, there's so many great
bands that were out here. Andit's one of a kind. It's the
only scene where you could pulloff something like we do with
Bay Area. And it's rational,where everybody comes there to
(13:36):
support each other. Whoever's intown is available. And we get
together and we play each otherstuff, you know? Yeah, I don't
think I don't think there's anyscene anywhere in the world.
Maybe Seattle might do it. Butit's just really hard for people
to get up there and do stufflike that. And then there's also
the thing of like, like I said,Nobody plays their own song and
(13:58):
taking the time to do that Ithink are seen as a little more
respectful and cognizant of eachother where they would actually
try to learn and put the time into do it.
Chuck Shute (14:09):
Mm hmm. And you toured with you did some shows
with Exodus. Did you ever doshows with Metallica? Or did you
ever even see them? Because theywere I guess you guys started at
five they were they were prettybig. By then. Were they still in
the Bay Area?
Craig Locicero (14:21):
They were hanging out I'd see them from
time to time and I've seen themplenty of times and I was lucky
enough to buy I bought kill themall the day it came out. I was
14 years old. I came and I wentto San Francisco by myself on
BART and bought that album. AndI did the same thing when ride
lightning came out. I boughtthat out in San Francisco too.
So I'm a ground level Metallicaguy. Yeah, but then never I
(14:44):
never played with them directly.
We've done shows where remembersthat I've jammed with Robert
Trujillo with Rob Leonardfriends thing. I actually
squatted lower than him. He wasamazed I can get lower than he
went. Yeah, the funny littlething is some fun but ya know
there They're, they're Metallicaman, this is like, you know,
it's iconic. But it's so funnybecause just recently, there's a
video that came out wherethey're talking about. I don't
(15:06):
know if you saw it, but it justcame out like a week ago. And
they were talking about they'redoing their live jam before
rehearsing before their tour. Orthey sit in the room together.
Yeah, we're talking abouteverybody playing Smoke on the
Water like hundreds of peopleand then are Saba true Saba
true. And then hundreds ofpeople played spoke on the
(15:27):
water. And then then largest thebiggest. Yeah, next thing to do
songs like for being there was alot like other night it was a
joke, like a were obscure, bethe shits hard to play. And
that's what he was really saved.
Like, you couldn't get a bucket.
You know, 100 500 people to playfor business on fucking sound
like ass money.
Chuck Shute (15:50):
But that's what I mean. Like they were clearly
because Lars is such a musicnerd too. Like he's clearly
aware of you guys and a fan ofyou guys.
Craig Locicero (15:57):
Well, yeah, go Sure. I mean, yeah, yeah. I
don't know what they listen today to day, but Lars is well
versed in the Bay Area. Healways kind of he's brought us
up a few times, you know, likeBen's crazy stuff obscure, you
know, because I mean, we were acult band. We weren't like,
forbidden never. We were on ourway to commercial success in in
bytes at 1991 We're toying withdeath angel. Both our albums
(16:20):
were just exploding, you know,we they're doing actory we're
twisting the form and bothalbums are doing great. And
everything was marked towardsthat direction. But everything
changed. It wasn't you know,early 90 or late 91, early 92
You know, the Seattle industrycompletely flipped the thrash
metal industry over and deathmetal you know, and stuff like
(16:41):
that was the only real survivorsPanthera Slayer kind of
survived. I mean, they came backlater but it took them a while
like, you know Metallica has anestablishment but the rest of us
testament Exodus that angelforbidden all of them we all
just got discarded every one ofus we were not the only ones
Yeah, could those guys came backor broke up for a while and came
(17:04):
back death angel broke uptestament almost changed your
name to dogface gods to try tofit in you know, like everything
was Exodus broke up. Likeeverybody kind of just we kept
going longer than the rest ofthem as a matter of fact Oh,
except for Testament they havegone but as a matter of fact out
of the bay area we were the lastones to disband and 97
Chuck Shute (17:23):
Yeah, well and then I heard this tell me the story
is true that your drummer Paulbo staff who obviously would
later join Slayer, like you arethe one that showed him Slayer
like you were playing the rainand blood album at a party and
he walked in and he goes and hewas like, holy shit our band is
fucked because like Slayer wasso the album was so good boom
away.
Craig Locicero (17:45):
I don't know about the our band is fuck part
because that album came out inrandom blog came out in 8686.
And he had just joinedforbidden. Yeah, so he was
getting introduced to thrashmetal. He wasn't really too hip
to it. You know, like, Paul waslike, cozy Powell or, you know,
like one of those kinds ofdrummers, but he had he was
(18:07):
willing to learn how to playdouble bass. So that's how he
kind of won the gig. He stole itfrom his fucking cousin. Jim
Pittman was his cousin. And thenthe Jim Pitman's other cousin,
Pete one of the gig too, sothere was a battle of the family
where they're all mad at eachother. Which was interesting,
interesting time, but Paul isnot very hip to thrash metal so
Slayer definitely, like a wokensomething in him where he
(18:31):
realized he can go unbridledcrazy, and that's where he kind
of turned it on and forbiddenevil. And when we started
writing songs from that pointforward, he definitely use more
Lombardo influence, you know,but in a positive way different
drummer than David Bartowcompletely.
Chuck Shute (18:45):
Hmm, yeah, Lombardo is insane to those both amazing
drummers tell explain to me,though, like, this is a crazy
story. I heard you. I think I'veheard you mentioned this a
couple times, where how yourmanager, you guys were being
shopped to different labels andyour manager turned down a
bigger label? Is that Is thatwhat happened? Because they
weren't ready or something, butdoesn't make any sense to me?
Craig Locicero (19:08):
Well, it's Debbie abodo. So first of all,
she's like a mom, you know, shewas like, she loved us. And she
didn't think okay, what yougotta understand about Debbie is
she didn't think any of thesebands were gonna have any
staying power. She thoughteverything was just a trend. It
was gonna be over in a minute.
You know, she's not like,totally hip to the music, but
she always judged by and by thereaction that other people gave
them. Right? So her whole thingwas forbidden is like, while
(19:31):
everyone else loves them, theymust be really good, because she
only mentioned possessed beforethat. So she went from possess
who her daughter was datingLarry lawan and said, I'm not
going to do that anymore. To mecalling cold call on the phone.
Hey, I'm Craig. I playedforbidden evil and you'll love
us that she's like, I don'tknow. So she did. Learn to love
us as people and knew the musicwas obviously going over well
(19:55):
with people and then Fastforward, we're on the forbidden
evil tour. And we didn't knowanything about this, actually,
so we didn't know anything aboutit. But while we were on that
tour, Rick Rubin had approachedher and asked if he could take
(20:16):
the band off of combat, he'swilling to buy us out of combat
and bring us over to Def Jam.
Because he loved for renewal.
And we unbeknownst to us, wenever found this out until we
were on tour with death. In oneeye, she was mad at us. He's Oh,
yeah, that's why I never toldRick Rubin. Because you guys
(20:38):
aren't ready for it. And we'relike, What are you talking
about? And it just, it madeeverybody really shocked. But I
remember pissed off Paul themost. You know, he was so upset.
And we loved me, dude, we lovedher up to that point. But that's
kind of why we were like, afterthat the relationship as a
manager kind of went downhillbecause we had a hard time like,
we could have been doing this.
(21:01):
But I but I look at it likethis. I don't I don't think
there's any regret in that now.
Because twisted in the form whenthat happened. Rick would have
wanted us to continue doing whatwe did not forbidden evil, which
is cool. But it was, you know,he saw he liked the bombastic
kind of like, childishplayfulness to the whole thing.
And then the amount of growingwe did, we got Tim Calvert
(21:22):
abandoned him and I workingtogether really lifted us to the
level that, you know, ourreputations kind of hinges on
how mature the music turned intofrom that point moving forward,
you know, and a lot of growing.
I mean, I went from being 2019and Megan, are 18, to make it
forbidden evil, to be a 20 tomake it twisted. And for me that
seemed like like years ago, andhad Rick been involved. That
(21:45):
would have been cool for theband brand. But I don't think we
would have he would have wantedus to do the same kind of thing
would have been compromised, andmore than likely. So that's why
I look at it. And I know that Ihave this verified for very good
authority, regrouping himself.
Because I signed to recruitmentslabel with man, may God and him
and him and I had later after Iplayed for him, and he was, you
(22:07):
know, he's blown away by theband. I'm walking outside. I'm
like, Hey, Rick, I don't know ifyou know who I am. But I'm
Craig. I played that bid forbid. And he's like, Oh, I wanted
to sign you guys isn't yourmanagers just stonewalled me? He
just flat out said no. Why wasthat I'm like, we kind of had a
conversation. And yeah, fromthat point on, he kind of
realized that I was more thanjust a rock guy for sure.
Chuck Shute (22:30):
Yeah, well, no, it's interesting, because I
heard you talking about manmadeGod. And you were saying, Oh,
this is one of those bands. Thatwould have been huge. And I kind
of roll my eyes and go, Yeah, Ihear that in interviews all the
time. So I but I'm like, I'mcurious. I'll check it out. I
listened. I was like, holy shit.
This is really good stuff. Soexplain the story with that and
explain how was this the onethat Doug Goldstein was possibly
(22:51):
going to be involved with whoseGuns and Roses manager they
tried to get he was,
Craig Locicero (22:57):
he was dug, dug.
There's so many levels of thisstory. It's a very interesting
time in my life. Because
Chuck Shute (23:04):
the plan is really good. I mean, people should
check it out.
Craig Locicero (23:07):
Yeah, well, it's the only band that I played in,
where people literally get tearyeyed talking about it. You know,
like it moves them emotionally.
There's things just, there'striggers that everyone's got
deep in their subconscious intheir soul. And we hit on a lot
of those triggers. We hit a lotof emotional ebbs and flows. And
so people end up not justlistening to the album, but
(23:29):
falling in love with it, youknow, including the people that
worked on it, like Sean Bevinmixed in to this day. It's like
one of his favorite records heever did. You know, he did all
the Nine Inch Nails stuff, andMarilyn Manson stuff and
countless, you know, countlessthings. But just the other day,
he sent me a video of himplaying the record with his wife
and watching their cat play. Andhe's like, Dude, it's still just
(23:51):
moved me. But uh, yeah, I mean,it was a time of my life. It was
very exciting time in life,because forbidden ended in 97.
So 9899, I was doing a veryexperimental version of me God.
And we had a singer that was outof his mind. Very talented,
taught me how to be an artist.
You know, he taught me to notworry as much about what I
(24:12):
remember. I had a rip. I lovethese. Oh, yeah, that was cool.
I'm like, Yeah, but it's great.
He's like, it's alright, he'son. But you got a million more
behind that. So that's stuckwith me. His name was Mike
Sullivan. I know that. That'show I roll into things now. So
somebody doesn't love something.
It'll be alright. Again, anotherone, you know, so that he taught
me that but then, you know, healso had a serious drug problem.
So we ended up letting him goand finding this guy pan through
(24:36):
an ad. And as soon as we had himall that weird, kind of all over
the place music we were writingimmediately became cohesive and
became like, rock staples. Andit wasn't people are like yeah,
you kind of like sell garlic.
No, it was way more likeforeigner or bad company. But
like a heavy heavy versionsapling you know, like It was
(24:58):
just you know, it should justtook off as soon as soon as pan
got the band, and we made ademo, we were getting constantly
bombarded with by record labels,because it was the heyday of
labels were still prevalent and,you know, putting money into
things and trying to make bandshuge, there was still an
(25:19):
industry. So we were at the tailend of all that, and Fast
forward to about a year after hegot the band, and every label is
trying to sign us. That's whenwe got the call from Rick's
people. So that's how that allcame about. And then Rick, Rick
said his main guy, you know,Brady's down to see us and are
up to see us actually from LA.
(25:42):
And within a few minutes, he'slike making plans on his
BlackBerry to fly us and all ofour gear down to LA to play for
Rick Rubin two days later. Andthese are things you just don't
hear about anymore. They don'tthey don't happen. So yeah, I
mean, yeah, I can't imaginerolling your eyes hearing that
story. Like, but
Chuck Shute (26:01):
no, but it was really good band.
Craig Locicero (26:06):
Thank you. I don't embellish much. I really
don't I the thing is I my careerhas been full of like, almost
just about Mr. Buy that much.
And I'm still not bitter. Idon't know, man. I've been lucky
enough to do things with verytalented people.
Chuck Shute (26:22):
But what do you think you could if you've looked
back? Is there things that youwould have done differently that
you because I look at the manman, God, I listened to
forbidden? I mean, even like, Imean, all your stuff is really
good. What's the other one withthe girl singer dressed the
dead? Like, you've done so manycool things? Like what do you
think you're missing that wouldtake it to that next level,
(26:45):
like,
Craig Locicero (26:47):
you know, I mean, I hate to probably the
decision that I have to lay outmy footstep. More than the other
one is sometimes relying toomuch on people that deep down
inside, I know, might not beable to do the long haul. You
know, like I love them for onereason or another musically,
(27:08):
super. But you got to you know,when it comes down to bed, you
gotta be down for the cause yougot to be like, really down and
be able to get up and go and dothings when it needs to happen.
It's a different industry. Now.
You don't have to do everythingyou should you should say no to
more than you say yes, do now.
Because there's not a lot of,you know, fiscal sets in playing
music anymore. You know, so youjust got to pick and choose what
(27:32):
you in forbidden. I can do that.
I can pick the right things andreally concentrate on the music.
But yeah, I think the biggestthing is relying on other folks
that probably weren't there theywere maybe had been reliable as
friends and reliable as peoplebut just couldn't be reliable in
the music industry. And that'sdefinitely what happened with
man, they got our singer prettymuch imploded, because he
(27:54):
thought we should be huge, likeovernight and didn't understand
how much work is involvedwinning people over night after
night. That wasn't what hewasn't really up for that. So I
kind of pulled up I pulled theplug on it, because I just felt
like it was just gonna go onforever. You would never quit
understand.
Chuck Shute (28:11):
Let's see that. One thing I don't think I've ever
heard you talk about was youplayed on Jeff Tate's album, The
Jeff Tate's queens, right, Ithink it was called before now I
think he just goes by Jeff Tate,but you played rhythm guitar on
that album 10 tracks, but you'relisted as an additional
position.
Craig Locicero (28:27):
I played all the guitars on that album. And I
could have done the solos too.
But Jeff had this brilliant ideato get guests, everybody Oh my
god. But uh, no, that was weird.
Jason Slater that passed away isa great friend of mine. And he
approached me because Jeffwanted to write a heavier record
wanted to write a kind of a fuckyou record. And I was like,
(28:50):
okay, you know, that soundsweird. And the whole thing up
for the onset, I told him, I'lldo it under the premise that we
can work on him every day andtalk him into dropping the
Queen's right name because it'snot going to be a queen's
record. So we did. Every day. Weset it to him like one way or
another We'd sneak it in. Howare we going to put it the
conversation today? We had thislittle conspiracy, but he was he
(29:12):
was fighting with Queensland getthe time to win the name. So
he's a no, it's got to be this.
I already signed a record dealand I've already got paid for
Queensland combined. Okay, youknow, it's your, your business
decision. But it wasinteresting. And he was really
nice. You know, he's, he'sreally nice. And to me, to this
day, I will say that Jeff Taterolls out of bed with great
(29:34):
melodies in his head. You know,that's, that's what he does
best. Like his. His melodies arecool on that record, but the
record was rushed. It was likebasically a collection of demos
that I re recorded. And or wrotesomething on that spot. I wrote
90% of that music, rewrote it onthe spot. figured out something
cool to play there. I'll recordit. Oh, my God, dude, again,
double it, then. Can I harmonizeit maybe, you know, I was like,
(29:58):
I didn't even have time to like,do all I add I also wanted to
bring Tim Calvin aboard becausehe was the huge Queens right
fan. But Tim was flying and hedidn't have time and they
weren't willing to pay him. Theywere like, no, nobody else we
got it. It was a weird thing,man. But, uh, at the end of it
when I listened to it now, I'mlike, those are really cool
demos. You know, they don'tsound like an album to me.
Chuck Shute (30:22):
And you didn't get to tour whether you didn't get
to play live or anything.
Craig Locicero (30:26):
Didn't get to or chose not to. Okay, fair enough.
I didn't want to be I didn'twant to be associated with that
stuff. I really did. I'm proudthat I got to work with Jeff and
that's a cool thing to have on aresume. Yeah, that's cool. You
know, whatever. It's not itdoesn't sit. It sits like the
lower third you know, but, but Imean, I got you know, I'm not
(30:48):
real happy with how he treatedJason Slater's who's since
passed away. I have a realproblem with the the way that he
kind of threw Jason under thebus it was his fault. When that
record is all Jeff Tate and hiswife forcing the issue making us
work on it, making sure that ithad to come out in a certain
amount of time when it wouldI'll tell you right now if I
(31:09):
would have had another threemonths to actually work on songs
and then bring them in and thenhave a real band to play with
and another guitar player toplay off of it would have been
way better you know, but Ididn't get any of those
opportunities you know they paidme was all right. I mean nothing
that I can listen to it now andI there's some songs I really
(31:32):
like but they're not none ofthem sound complete
Chuck Shute (31:35):
any blame Jason Slater for the failure of it?
Craig Locicero (31:39):
Yeah, because Jason's not around to defend
himself Jason's exact wordswould be you can suck up fucking
Deke Deke in there.
Chuck Shute (31:49):
Are you did swear all right, I like it. Yeah,
well, this
Craig Locicero (31:53):
is a great friend of mine. Yeah. Great
brand. Yeah.
Chuck Shute (31:56):
And gosh, he says so many good bands. The other
one I haven't really listened tothe boneless ones. That's a
pumpkin thrash crossover. Do youare you gonna continue with some
of these side projects isforbidden going to be your main
focus right now?
Craig Locicero (32:11):
Well, I mean, I don't have like a side project I
have things that I concentrateon. You know, like everything
goes to the side when I'mconcentrating on that including
the front end bonus ones forbins on the side are dressed
dead and you know what otherpeople would view it as because
there's the hierarchy offorbidden with the that's all
side projects but forbidden. Butto me I've been into everything
(32:31):
I've done. And the bonus onesit's funny the last interview I
did the guys have popped in andhe's like, loves the bonus ones
records. It did really, reallywell get great reviews. There
are legacy skate rock act outhere in the Bay Area. Their song
skate for the devil was votednumber one skate rock song of
all time by Thrasher Magazine.
And I didn't know that tillafter I joined the band, but
I've seen them when I was a kid.
(32:55):
I saw with Chris contestsplaying it was like their last
show at the UC Berkeley campusand they blew my mind was a
guitar player was a shredder andI thought that leads will lead
to good for punk rock becausewhat my exact thoughts at the
time come years later theyreforming Chris gets a hold of
me because I need to get guitarplayer because the other guy
didn't have the chops to playall the Thrash stuff. Like you
(33:15):
know, he was good guitar playerbut like kind of a blues guys.
Like it's just not working bro.
So I went and met the guys. Ilove them. I remembered how much
I love them. And then we startedwriting record and it turned out
great. So that's what that is,you know, and we're gonna we're
playing Dynamo this year. Afterforbidden please Alcatraz a week
later. We already had the Dynamobook for boneless ones way
before this forbidden thing evercame about. So it's like, Hey,
(33:38):
we got two less flights to payfor it's pretty cool. Oh, we're
gonna be there. We're gonna bethere, man. It's it's perfect
timing. And then everyone'slooking at the Bose one is like,
hey, there's those two guys thatare in for bidding up there with
a skate rock band. You know, butit's heavy. It's fine. It's it's
a really energetic album. Okay,cool. Lots of shredding. I get I
get to play a lot of solos onthat record where I don't
(34:00):
usually lean into them as much.
Chuck Shute (34:03):
Okay, and then we can look forward to some
possible would you possibly tourwith forbidden or you can't you
still can't say anything. Butpossibly maybe.
Craig Locicero (34:13):
I think a lot. I think touring is going to be
tactical touring. Like I wassaying, I don't think going out
for a month and a half andhitting everywhere in the United
States is never going to besomething that's worth doing.
Chuck Shute (34:24):
Maybe like weekend stuff like casino shows or
something like that.
Craig Locicero (34:28):
No casinos, festivals. Were already being
offered festivals for all nextyear. Okay, I'm just telling you
that right now, like almostevery festival worth its salt
has already got a hold of us oris waiting to see what we're
going to do next. And so with alot of European festivals of us
festivals, I think itconcentrating on me writing rich
(34:48):
renew record is the mostprevalent thing. I want to write
new music and so after we finishout the trails, I'm gonna come
home and really delve into thatfor a few months. And I think
that's More important thananything else more and more
important than living off theglory of the past is building on
something for the future. No,
Chuck Shute (35:07):
no, absolutely. And I that's what I kind of love
about music now is like, youdon't need to have the big major
label record, you can just putout your own stuff and bands are
putting out some of the greatestmaterial of their careers, I
think, because they're maturingand they don't, they don't need,
they don't have to listen to therecord labels. They do it this
way, do it that way they do ithow they want, it sounds great.
Craig Locicero (35:26):
Well, record labels don't carry much sway
with it when it comes to thatanyway. You know, we're still
technically on a nuclear blastanyway. So already on record
label.
Chuck Shute (35:35):
Yeah. And that's like with I mean, they're like,
chill, they're not like, tryingto chase it. Right.
Craig Locicero (35:40):
A forbidden record. Yeah. And I know how to
write it forbidden record,because I've been writing them
since I was, you know, a youngteen. Yeah, no, that's not It's
not hard for me.
Chuck Shute (35:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, we look forward to that.
And then I'll let you get to asyou have another interview or
Craig Locicero (35:57):
No, but I've got my guitar right back here that
I'm going to pick up and startworking on. Today's my first day
of really digging in and dustingoff a lot of the old songs I
knew I had three months it's May1, I got three months and 11 or
10 days and so I begin my it'sin my DNA it's not like it's
hard to play forbidden shit, butit is like catching up your arm
(36:19):
speed and your it's just a lotgoing on. So timesavers David
dig in.
Chuck Shute (36:24):
Okay, cool. Well let you get back to it. I always
end promoting as a charity ornonprofit that you want to
promote here at the end. Ialways end with that.
Craig Locicero (36:32):
Anything for the ALS Foundation in any state that
you're in? City, you know, theUnited State donate to ALS I
have. We lost him Calvert, toALS, my old guitar player for
forbidden and my best friend issuffering from a right now my
friend Bill shields who was inSt. Louis. I know a lot of
people you know lost friends toit. So it's the probably the
(36:55):
most inexplicable and applicablehorrible debilitating disease
there is it eventually shuts allyour your motor function and
your organs down one by one. Oh,yeah. My brain. Your brains
elastic go.
Chuck Shute (37:09):
Yeah, my uncle had I think he had I think his was
different. It was MLS it's likevery similar, though. Yeah, just
shuts down your whole body. It'sreally sad to see. And so if we
get a cure for that,
Craig Locicero (37:19):
that will give them a less is more pain more
painful, even. But yeah, it's alittle different. That starts I
think your muscles contract withMLS or Ms. Ms. You're thinking
multiple multiple sclerosis.
Yes,
Chuck Shute (37:32):
no, I forget. But yeah, it was similar to that
kind of thing. It's just hard tosee. And, yeah, if we could get
I'll put that in the link in theshow notes along with of course,
the forbidden links, and peoplecan follow you guys on social
media and all that stuff. So
Craig Locicero (37:46):
it's all their Facebook, official forbidden.com
If you want to buy our officialmerch, you know, Instagram, we
just created Instagram. We justcreated our Instagram page, just
to pre preface the announcementthat we're back. So it's like
it's been for about two and ahalf, almost three weeks into
that. And so that's grown ratherquickly.
Chuck Shute (38:06):
Okay, cool. Well, thanks, Craig. I appreciate it.
And if you get hit a Phoenix,I'll come see you guys if I'm
around.
Craig Locicero (38:13):
Awesome, man. I appreciate the time and yeah,
good question.
Chuck Shute (38:17):
All right. Thank you. I'll see you later. Peace.
Bye bye. My thanks again toCraig make sure to follow him
and forbidden on social media.
Check out some of the otherbands he's played with. Manmade
God was definitely very cool. Ifyou liked that 90s rock sound. I
enjoyed it. Make sure to supporthim with buying merch or ticket
to a live show. Or at the veryleast commenting liking stuff on
(38:39):
social media YouTube helps outand that goes for us to sharing
the episodes. These podcastshelps out a lot. And of course,
make sure you're subscribedwherever you watch or listen, I
appreciate all your support. Andso do the guests. Have a great
rest of your day and shoot forthe moon?
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