April 20, 2023 • 42 mins
Jeff Pilson is musician, songwriter and music producer. He is currently the bass player for Foreigner and was a long time member of Dokken. He has also been involved with several other bands including Dio, Steel Dragon, The End Machine & Black Swan. He is also now a member of Revolution Saints alongside Joel Hoekstra & Deen Castronovo and they have a new album called “Eagle Flight.” We discuss all this plus growing up in Washington, rocking out with Paul McCartney, the future of rock music and more!
00:00 - Intro
00:36 - Friendship with Slash
03:25 - Pill-Sound Studios
05:00 - Learning Production
06:15 - Growing Up in Washington
09:57 - Education & Seattle Music Scene
11:48 - Moving to San Francisco & Networking
13:43 - Evovling & Reinventing Yourself
14:35 - Revolution Saints
16:20 - Singing & Fronting
17:36 - Playing Live & Creating Music
19:45 - Legal Issues, Dokken & Crue
22:30 - Mick Mars Solo Record
24:20 - Show with Led Zeppelin
25:30 - Rocking Out with Paul McCartney
27:03 - Meeting Chris Squier & Cool to Fans
29:00 - Rockstar Personas & Too Serious
30:55 - Image, Music Business & Future of Rock
37:50 - Future Plans for Jeff
39:45 - Virtual Meditation Class
41:43 - Outro
Jeff Pilson website:
https://jeffpilson.wordpress.com/
Jeff Pilson Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/OfficialJeffPilson/
Meditation:
https://hotforyogascv.com/
Chuck Shute website:
https://chuckshute.com/
📸 by Daryl Bughman Photography
Thanks for Listening & Shute for the Moon!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Chuck Shute (00:00):
Okay, Jeff pilson is my guest today Jeff is of
course the current bass playerfor foreigner, former bass
player for Dokken and is alsoinvolved with a ton of projects
as a producer and a musician.
His some of his most recentmusician projects include the
end machine, Black Swan, andrevolution saints. So we're
going to talk a lot about hisamazing career highlights his
thoughts on the current state ofrock, his future plans and so
(00:21):
much more. Stay right there.
We'll go ahead and just diveright in. I'm actually it's
funny because I just had a guy Idon't you remember Chris Vaughn
(00:41):
doll? He was in a band calledPerry Street. Yeah.
Jeff Pilson (00:45):
He's a good friend of mine. Okay, when we did we
didn't see him this year inVegas, but I saw him last year
when we did our residency inVegas. Yeah, he and his wife are
good friends of ours, and welove them dearly.
Chuck Shute (00:56):
Yeah, it's just funny because I had him on the
show. And he, he brought you up.
He was talking about slash. Andhe goes, Yeah, we were at Jeff
pilson house and I was like,Wait, like Jeff and slash? We're
friends. He's like, Oh, yeah.
Everybody was friends with withJeff back in the day. So I
didn't know that. I don't knowif slash wrote about you and his
book. But tell me about yourfriendship was slash that just
intrigues me a little bit?
Jeff Pilson (01:15):
Ah, okay. Well, I mean, I met slash, you know,
even before, right as they werecoming out. You know, before
they were big and famous, Iremember having some, you know,
we would drink and talk at therainbow. Not a lot. I mean, we
weren't close at that point atall. But you know, there was a
little bit of that then as theygot famous. Steven Adler is one
(01:36):
of my best friends and is tothis day, one of my best
friends. So towards the end ofStephens tenure, so 8990 round
in there. I started hanging withslash a bit more, you know, I
mean, at first it was kind of adrinking thing, then I actually
got sober. But we kind ofmaintained a friendship then at
(01:56):
one point, he was, he washanging in my house quite a bit.
And that's for kind of there wasstuff going on, but you don't
have to know about all that. Butit sounds like the good stuff.
Yeah. No,
Chuck Shute (02:11):
but he's there stuff going on. But this is when
you're sober. So are you kind oflike the babysitter at this
point.
Jeff Pilson (02:16):
No, not no. Just just hanging. We were just
hanging, you know, I mean,
Chuck Shute (02:22):
you jam Do you play any music together?
Jeff Pilson (02:24):
We really didn't.
And I wish we would have becauseI mean, we talked about it. But
I have jammed with slash, ofcourse over the years. And I
just, you know, I've maintaineda friendship with him. I mean,
it's not a close friendship byany means. But you know, we talk
about Steve, you know, we keepin touch about Stephen a lot.
And you know, he wants to makesure Stephen is doing good,
(02:46):
which he is. And he knows thatStephen and I are real close. So
there's that and then you know,then it's just fun stuff. Like,
I got our tour bus. Last year inEurope. I walked out of the tour
bus, and there's a doll, a slashdoll with guitar, you know, top
hat and cigarette andeverything. And so I had to take
(03:07):
a picture of that and send it tohim. And I said, Are you
stalking me?
Chuck Shute (03:13):
That's funny. Yeah.
And like he played on Stevens,one of Steve Stevens solo
records, the one that was justcalled Adler
Jeff Pilson (03:20):
that right you produced right that he did that
right here. So,
Chuck Shute (03:23):
okay, so yes, that your suit? That's what he called
pill Sound Studios.
Jeff Pilson (03:27):
He'll sound yes, that you are seeing. Yeah,
explain to me that because
Chuck Shute (03:31):
I'm thinking about doing a home studio, I mean, for
podcasting, but I'm assuming itwould be kind of similar. Do you
have any advice for building ahome studio?
Jeff Pilson (03:39):
Well, you're gonna want to make sure that the sound
is decent. So you notice I havesee all those baffles and
everything that I have. Yeah. Solots of sound reinforcement.
Chuck Shute (03:52):
Does that really make a big difference? Well, I
Jeff Pilson (03:55):
mean, probably more for music than it does for
casting stuff. But you know, ithelps when you're listening that
it's a controlled environment.
You don't want to have too muchbass that you know, shoots up
that then when you take it toanother system that sounds bass
shy, and all that kind of thing.
Chuck Shute (04:11):
Want especially everything drums would be the
because that's so loud, it couldecho and then, right? Well,
yeah,
Jeff Pilson (04:19):
although the drums are in an echoey room, the room
that I have for the drums there,I purposely have a different
surfaces. So there's stone,right and back to the drums,
which given a nice reflection,there's wood on the floor and on
the walls, and then there'sfabrics. So with all three of
(04:40):
those surfaces, I get a nicereflection on the drums, which
you actually want because youwant the drums to sound big and
like they're, you know,resonating. But that in here,
when I'm listening to everythingI want to control so that I'm
not hearing random frequenciesthat aren't really there.
Chuck Shute (04:59):
Gotcha. How did so how did you learn all this
production stuff? Becauseobviously produce in addition to
playing bass, is it just throughall the recording you've done? I
mean, yeah, yeah, sure. I justexperienced it's trial and
error. And yeah, and
Jeff Pilson (05:12):
I mean, like, ever since I was a kid I've loved.
I've loved the whole recordingprocess. And I'm fascinated by
it. So, I mean, I was the kidthat had, you know, the I had a
reel to reel tape recorder, I'drecord on that, you know, and
maybe play guitar and sing andthen I have my cassette machine
and playback the reel to reeland record the cassette and sing
(05:33):
harmonies along and you know,that kind of thing. I was one of
those guys doing that at 16years old. So I've always loved
the process. And always had areal curiosity about it. And
I've been fortunate enough towork with some amazing people. I
mean, the Jeff workmen's, theTom Orman's, the Michael
Wagner's the wind, Davis's theNeil Kernan. You know, I mean,
(05:54):
I've worked the Keith Olsen's. Imean, the list goes on of the
incredible producers, engineersthat I've worked with. So I've
tried to learn as much byosmosis as I can. And, and I
love it. You know, when you whenyou love something, you know,
you do it? Well.
Chuck Shute (06:09):
Yeah. So just learning from all of those
accounts. Amazing. And all thepeople that you worked with,
tell me about, I was so curious,because one of the first things
I noticed when I startedresearching you is that you're
from Washington, kind of likeyou grew up in Longview,
Washington. I know where thatis. I'm from Seattle, I actually
applied for a job in Camus,which is like, I don't know, 40
minutes from there or something.
I think it's Camus Washington.
(06:31):
It's like South. Yeah, a littlefurther. Yep. Yeah. And then
there's a story of Oregon iskind of like a little. There's
also around there, which islike, where the Goonies and all
these movies were filmed. Buttalking about growing up in
Longview. I mean, that was whenyou were what, like, 1316 you
moved there. So I moved
Jeff Pilson (06:46):
there when I was 13. Um, well, you know, the
thing is, I had never been I,you know, I was coming from
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, I lived ina really nice suburb of
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, that wasthe sixth rated school district
in the country. So very, and Ihad friends there that are still
friends to this day. But I movedback when I move west. And I go
(07:07):
into the school system that wasactually a year behind. So my
seventh or eighth, I'm sorry, myeighth grade year, was an
academic repeat of my seventhgrade year in Wisconsin. So I
was, you know, that, that Ithink, started me on a path of,
you know, I wanted to I justwanted to play music. I was in
this small town, I felt, youknow, out of place and you know,
(07:29):
all the, the strange feelingsyou feel as a kid when you're
somewhere new. So music becamemy, my outlet and my, my saved
salvation, really. So every day,I would come home and just play
along with records. And that wasmy, that was my school.
Chuck Shute (07:48):
So playing by yourself mostly, then. Yeah, I
mean,
Jeff Pilson (07:51):
if the first couple years, sure, you know, you'll
learn to play along withrecords. And then I started
jamming with people, probablyabout the time I was 14, I want
to say, and yeah, it's beenpretty hard. And you have well,
actually a 13 when I did move toWashington, I met some friends
fairly soon. We didn't have adrummer but you know, we played
guitars and I had my bass and sothere was there was the that
(08:15):
early momentum of of playing.
But yeah, between playing alongwith records, and playing with
other musicians who are alsodeveloping, it's a great way to
learn.
Chuck Shute (08:25):
Yeah, and then Didn't you also like you weren't
you worked at a music store? Andthen you tell them? Yeah, tell
them tell them out. It's a storyabout how you, you convinced
your high school to give youlike a waiver or something that
you could work on music and itwas awesome.
Jeff Pilson (08:41):
Okay, so so starting when I was 15, so I
think it was a sophomore. Istarted managing this music
store because it's called Boband Corky is musical emporium
and guitar shop in Longview,Washington and Corky the owner
of the shop, he we just had thisgreat relationship he was you
know, he was probably in his 30sI want to guess so he seemed
(09:02):
old. But he trusted me and hetaught me how to manage the
music store because then I couldbe there while he's at work
because he worked in the factoryin Longview. So it was great. I
mean, I loved working there. Butbecause of that in my senior
year Yes, I got this waiver Igot my school to accept this
(09:25):
waiver program where one perioda day might have even been two
periods but there's at least oneall I had to do for the whole
quarter was write one song whichI could do in a day so so I
would use that time to eitherjam at the music store or I'd go
up in the in the music room atthe at the school and you know,
(09:46):
play and write something wouldit ever but yeah, I my senior
year was was a gift. Yeah,that's
Chuck Shute (09:55):
cool. So and then I know you went to University of
Washington. I'm not sure howlong you stayed there. But tell
me about your thoughts on musicand education because I just had
the singer of up and coming bandcalled Dead Poets Society. And
he went to the Berklee School ofMusic, which I think is one of
the most prestigious musicschools. And he says, basically,
it's a waste of time other thannetworking with other musicians.
(10:17):
But you learn a lot of the otherstuff just by plane and bands
and things like that. Do youagree?
Jeff Pilson (10:22):
I do. And honestly, my time at the University of
Washington music program, I hada wonderful bass teacher string
bass teacher. He was the firstfirst chair string basis with
the Seattle Symphony. Great,great, great player and teacher.
And that was, that was great.
But the classes were very oldschool, traditional classical.
So they, you know, I mean, I'mglad I know music theory and all
(10:47):
that kind of stuff. But butreally, yeah, it's it's it's out
there getting out there playingand that's, that's the nitty
gritty.
Chuck Shute (10:55):
Were you playing in bands in Seattle during that
time? Like, the Seattle scenewith was Queens right around
there?
Jeff Pilson (11:03):
Yeah. Yeah, cuz this is seven, mid 70s. Mind
you, so Okay. Yeah. So um, yeah,there were there wasn't a huge
scene in Seattle, which is why Iended up leaving at the time.
What but I was involved in theprod community because I was a
total prod guy back then, youknow? Yeah. I mean, Chris Squire
was my guy. So yes, Genesis ELP,gentle giant. That was that was
(11:27):
my stuff. And we had a littlebit of a scene in Seattle, that
had that I was in a band calledChristmas. But then it kind of
faded out. Because at the end ofthe 70s, all that stuff, just,
you know it, it got died ahorrible death. And so that's
when I kind of shifted overgoing more towards hard rock.
Chuck Shute (11:48):
Yeah. And then you moved to San Francisco and
became friends with Mike varney.
Well, what made you choose SanFrancisco as opposed to LA or
New York or?
Jeff Pilson (11:56):
Well, because my after the the week after my
senior year of high school, mybest friend and I, we huddled we
got ourselves down to NorthernCalifornia. I don't even I still
don't know how we did this. Butwe, we flew down there. And
somehow, I don't even rememberhow we did it. But we had no
(12:17):
money. But we moved down therebecause we had joined this band.
I on my spring break, I hadjoined a band that was in the
Bay Area. Sir, I'd havesomething to do when I got out
of school. So I came here. Ishowed up with no money, nowhere
to live. And a guy with me thathe didn't even know. But he put
up but he put up with it. And soI had a band that I joined when
(12:39):
I when they went down there.
Well, of course that lasted forthe summer. But in that summer,
I met a lot of reallyinteresting people, including
Mike varney. So when I went backto Seattle in the fall to go to
school, that's when you know,that whole Seattle experience
happened. When that fell apart.
(13:00):
Then I decided, well, the nextlogical place is the other one I
know, which is San Francisco.
And I knew Mike varney. And sowhen I got down there, and very
soon after I got down there, thethe rock Justice Project
happened that Mike was involvedin with Marty Balin from the
starship. And so that they kindof drew me into that. And so
there was there was a lot ofgood stuff that started
happening.
Chuck Shute (13:20):
Okay, and then that's also where you met. Did
you meet Paul Taylor in SanFrancisco as well?
Jeff Pilson (13:24):
I did. Yeah. You ended up rooming with
Chuck Shute (13:26):
him. So all these connections? It seems like a lot
of networking for you. Is that abig part of your success? You
feel like
Jeff Pilson (13:33):
Yeah, but by happenstance, you know, I I've
never been like Mr. schmooze IInetwork a guy but um, but by
happenstance, yes, I am.
Chuck Shute (13:42):
Because it's interesting like with foreigner,
you know, you and Kelly Hansonare both in that which is I
think is so cool. But you know,you're not the guy from Dhaka
and Kelly Hanson is not thesinger from Hurricane Now you
keep you guys keep evolving.
What how do you what is thesecret to that? Like guys like
you and Kelly, how do youcontinually reinvent yourselves?
So you're not just this one bandthing that you know, that
(14:04):
happened?
Jeff Pilson (14:06):
It's funny, I don't feel like I necessarily do any
reinventing at all. I just feellike I do my my thing. And, and
by staying involved and activeand passionate and committed, I
think you you naturally changebecause that's what the
circumstances call for. So yeah,really, it's not like an attempt
to always want to evolve. It'sjust an attempt to always do my
(14:28):
best and give my best. And itmust
Chuck Shute (14:31):
be working because you just keep getting work. And
so obviously, we got to talkabout the new project revolution
saints which you say I justplayed bass on it, but obviously
being just even referred to havethat that's a good gig. I mean
you're working with
Jeff Pilson (14:45):
I love it. And I love the fact that I just have
to play bass on it because Iproduce other records. So this
is kind of fun to just be thebass player. And I have infinite
faith and Alessandro who is theproducer, writer for revolution
saints. We have a tremendousworking real arrangement so, so
yeah, for me, it's a treat. AndI love it. And you know, Dean's
(15:06):
I mean, just to sit and listento Dean's voice to me is enough.
Chuck Shute (15:10):
Yeah. explain to people like, would you how do
you describe this music? Cuz tome obviously Dean's the drummer
from Germany. It sounds there'svery there's vibes of journey I
mean maybe it's a little bitheavier
Jeff Pilson (15:21):
and heavier. That's exactly if I were to describe
it, I would describe it as aheavier journey. It says if
journey wanted to really be amainstream rock band again.
Chuck Shute (15:31):
Okay, and so on this one you just play bass, but
maybe on the next one would youmaybe sing, co write maybe co
produce or
Jeff Pilson (15:39):
there was actually two records written in the can
when I joined. So I played onthe first one, which is the one
coming out today? No, tomorrow,tomorrow, tomorrow. Anyway, um,
so for me now because I get theadvance copy. Okay, right. And
then. And then there's alreadyanother record that we've all
played on, that's indicated,okay, later on this summer, we
(16:02):
are going to start writing forthe third one, which I'm sure
will come out so well into 2025.
But we're gonna start writingthat over the summer. So that'll
be very exciting. There'salready a couple songs that I've
thrown in that that we're goingto work on. So it's gonna be
fun. It's gonna be really fun.
Chuck Shute (16:20):
So you said like, you'd like that you could just
play bass. So talk about like,different jobs you do in music
producing playing basssongwriting, but also singing,
you're in the span worn piecewhere you're the frontman? Did
you like that? Was thereadvantages? I mean, obviously
nice. Like, you're kind of incharge, and you have a great
singing voice. I thought,
Jeff Pilson (16:39):
well, thank you.
Um, I yeah, I love fronting. ButI don't, I just don't feel
honestly that my voice isspecial enough to really warrant
a band around it and go to play,I do have a lot of material that
I work on, that's very differentthan a lot of the stuff that I
release with other bands.
(16:59):
Someday, I'll probably put outsome kind of a solo record just
to make that artistic statement.
And I'll sing on that, and I'lldo a I'll do most of the
instruments on that. But as faras fronting i don't, i i rather
I get more of a thrill oflistening to better singers, to
be perfectly honest with you. SoI would rather be in a situation
with better singers. And whenI'm producing I feel as a singer
(17:23):
I, I make for a good vocalproducer. But I would rather do
that than then then just saymyself, I really would.
Chuck Shute (17:36):
Do you prefer playing on stage and playing
bass? And like in foreigner,you're playing the same songs?
Or is it more of a thrill tocreate new music? Or is it both
just different?
Jeff Pilson (17:48):
Well, it's both but different. I mean, yes. Because
I'm on year 20. With foreigner,you know, yeah, there's a little
bit of like, the grass is alwaysgreener. So whenever I see a
recording studio, which iswhenever I come home, I'm in it,
because I love it. And I love torecord, I love the recording
process. I will do this as muchas I can, until foreigner ends
(18:10):
and then when foreigner ends,I'll probably do it even more.
So. But I wonder, well, will Iget to a point in a couple of
years wrong this playing live? Idon't know.
Chuck Shute (18:20):
But for now, you're going to continue to to to I
mean, well, the foreigner ends,you could tour with one of these
other the end machine or BlackSwan
Jeff Pilson (18:27):
could happen. And yeah, I mean, foreigners going
to tour till the end of 2024.
For sure. Okay. But yes, maybethat does open up that
revolution, saints are inmachine or Black Swan could go
out there and play at somepoint, that would be great. I
never like to, you know, make acommitment about that to the
public. Because it's so trickygetting guys and all these bands
together to play live. And it'sexpensive, and it's hard to pull
(18:50):
off and the list goes on. But ifit could ever happen, I would
love it. And yeah, maybe that'ssomething that could happen more
once the four years are behindus.
Chuck Shute (19:02):
Yeah. Could you do something like a package either
package tour of like N machine,Black Swan revolution saints or
have all three play the samefestival? Because I know that's
a big thing. Festivals orMonsters of Rock cruise, those
kinds of things.
Jeff Pilson (19:16):
Wow, you really want me to work hard, don't you?
Chuck Shute (19:20):
I'm just saying logistically, isn't that what
you guys kind of have to donowadays for
Jeff Pilson (19:24):
Yeah, I mean, that would that that's the kind of
thing I could see happening.
Yeah. I honestly don't know.
And, you know, anything is openand fine for me. But yeah, just
it's just so hard to. It's hardto make it a reality. It just
is.
Chuck Shute (19:41):
Okay. Well, I'd be remiss if I didn't talk about
Docker and I'm sure there's alot of Docker fans out there who
want me to ask doc andquestions. I'm trying to think
of things that you haven't beenasked about docking. What tell
me explain to me how I'm not ina band. I'm not in the music
business other than interviewingmusicians, but in terms of like,
if you're a founding member. Howdoes that work? Because I know
(20:02):
the whole thing with Motley Cruelike Mick Mars is he's not he's
been cut out or something. Howdoes that work? Like with you
and Doc, and you're not in theband currently? Do you still get
a cut of obviously the musicyou've played on? But what about
like merch or things like that?
Is that
Jeff Pilson (20:16):
something that no, no, there was a severing of the
partnership with E and Doc. AndI want to say 2003. So, no, I
mean, everything anything Dondoes as Doc and now that's him.
But yeah, you know, we we, weguess
Chuck Shute (20:35):
you have to buy you out? I don't understand. There
Jeff Pilson (20:37):
was yeah, there was a thing to make it happen. Yes.
Yeah. And
Chuck Shute (20:41):
it's interesting, like you guys had a lawsuit with
George Lynch and then, but thenyou'd like you will got over it.
And that's kind of interestingto me.
Jeff Pilson (20:50):
Because it's a lawsuit. Um, yeah, well,
Chuck Shute (20:53):
I think there's no grudges like, he just called you
up one day. And it's like, Hey,buddy, let's go. Like you guys
do not talk about that. Or doyou just kind of just about it?
Jeff Pilson (21:01):
Sure. Of course, of course. But, I mean, basically,
the lawsuit happened in 97 oreight, I want to say, and, you
know, then he and I startedworking together in 2001. And
that's a couple of years later,and when he called me up, it was
kind of like, yeah, okay, we'reover it. Seriously, it? You
know, it. Just the crap of beingin a band?
Chuck Shute (21:26):
Yeah. Well, it's funny because I used to be a
counselor and schools. And, youknow, that always helped me do
the mediations. And if youbring, you know, two guys in,
they can literally get in afistfight. And I can talk to
them, they work it out the nextday. They're best friends again.
Now, girls, a lot of times notto be sexist, but a lot of times
girls will hold on to the grudgea lot longer. So that's how I
kind of thought about that. WhenI heard that story of I was
(21:47):
like, Oh, this is guys. This iswhat guys we just get overshot.
So do you think Mick Mars andmotley crew gonna ever? They'll
probably kiss and make up in afew years?
Jeff Pilson (21:55):
I don't know the specifics of their deal. I mean,
yeah, it sounds Yeah. I mean, Idon't want to comment. Because I
just don't know it. But I hopethey do. You know, I mean,
they're, they're good guys. Youknow, they should?
Chuck Shute (22:11):
Yeah, it's just, it's, it's hard to see that kind
of stuff. As a fan. Everyone'staking sides. And it's like, I'm
not taking a seat because Idon't I don't know what's going
on. I'd like to hear more. I'dlike to have him on my show and,
and figure it out. But it'shopefully it's one of those
things that can blow over and alittle bit
Jeff Pilson (22:27):
is I gotta admit, I've heard some snippets of Mars
solo record, and it's Oh, yeah.
Incredible. I hope to God, heputs it out because it's really,
really strong. And by the way,Paul Taylor is working
Chuck Shute (22:40):
on it. So yeah, he told me about it to finish it
off.
Jeff Pilson (22:44):
It is really, really good. I hope this
inspires MC to release itbecause it's really good. And
MIT deserves to be heard. He'sgot some really good music on
there. Who else is on that?
Chuck Shute (22:55):
Who's the because I thought John corabi was singing
at one point then he gotreplaced or?
Jeff Pilson (23:00):
I don't believe so.
I think Jacob, I mean, what Iheard Jacob was singing. I think
the Oh Jacob button, right?
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think Jacobwas singing everything that I
heard. Are you on it? No, no.
Chuck Shute (23:12):
Oh, you didn't produce it or anything? You just
got to listen.
Jeff Pilson (23:15):
I Yeah. I mean, Paul, I'm
Chuck Shute (23:17):
surprised he did not ask you to do a song or
something or back of vocals orsomething. Well,
Jeff Pilson (23:22):
I mean, that was done in Nashville. A lot of it
was done in Nashville and andmix stuff was. Yeah, I mean,
they don't they didn't need me.
Chuck Shute (23:30):
They had plenty.
Where are you located?
Jeff Pilson (23:32):
I'm in LA, north of La a little bit.
Chuck Shute (23:34):
Okay. Yeah. Do you like that scene? Are you think
you'll retire somewhere else atsome point?
Jeff Pilson (23:40):
Well, it'd be hard to replace the studio because I
got a beautiful studio and I gota beautiful drum room out there.
And I got, you know, beautifulisolation room for lamps there.
So that would be difficult to,to replace. So I don't know. I
don't know. I mean, I love ithere. I love where we are. I
love our house. I love mystudio. So I mean, I hope I can
(24:02):
stay here a long time, but we'llsee.
Chuck Shute (24:04):
Yeah, it doesn't excite you to build a new one
and upgrade it and,
Jeff Pilson (24:09):
um, yeah, if the opportunity arose. I mean, I'm
kind of comfortable now. But
Chuck Shute (24:16):
yeah, no, it looks cool. Very cool. So yeah, with
Dawkins, I mean, it's sointeresting. I was looking back
I was like, I didn't realize youguys. You've toured with almost
every major band Aerosmith,ACDC, Metallica, Van Halen. And
now of course, you're informed.
I mean, is there any band thatyou have not toured with you?
That's on your bucket list.
That's like, I mean, unless it'slike a band like Led Zeppelin.
That's obviously not togetheranymore.
Jeff Pilson (24:36):
Oh, for her did play a gig with Led Zeppelin.
When you were there, we playedthe ope. We played the at the Oh
702 arena show for the AhmetErtegun tribute we played right
before his effort. You rememberthat big show that they had in
2007?
Chuck Shute (24:53):
No, it was that it wasn't under the one Zeplin
date.
Jeff Pilson (24:56):
What you call it?
DVD?
Chuck Shute (24:58):
Okay, was that on?
Is that was that like pageplanned? Or was it actually it
wasn't under the Led Zeppelinname?
Jeff Pilson (25:03):
Yeah, it was called Led Zeppelin in 2007. Yeah. And
it was it was John Paul Jones,Robert Plant, Jimmy Page, and
Jason Bonham. So yeah, and theyplayed as Led Zeppelin. It was a
huge show. broke the internetbecause the 20 million requests
for tickets for the 20,000 seatsin the O two arena. It was it
was crazy. But anyways, yeah,Forerunner played right before
(25:26):
ziploan at that show, which wasvery cool.
Chuck Shute (25:28):
Well, there you go.
That's amazing. God, geez,everything says Paul McCartney
is the only one that you haven'tworked with yet.
Jeff Pilson (25:34):
I've never worked with Paul McCartney, or Ringo.
And I haven't worked with Ringomet Ringo. rocked out with Paul
didn't actually meet him. But Ithought it was. It's kind of
funny. So it was at the oh sevenAhmet Ertegun show during Led
Zeppelin set. And there was anarea you know, for the VIPs up
(25:56):
top. So after the show, my wifeand I went to the area to the
VIP area, and we're just kind ofwalking and, and, and the song
rock'n'roll starts, right Zeplinrockin awesome. And so we're
walking along, and my wife and Iwant to find there's this little
area that we were you can kindof see in the VIP area. So we
(26:16):
start walking along. Andhonestly, my wife was like doing
this to me, I'm like, and I lookover and it's Paul McCartney.
And he's, he's walking alongsideus, right? And we get to the
area where everybody's standing.
Although it was only a couple ofpeople at this point. It was
just Paul's wife and I standingin this area. And he's, he's
rocking out totally like a fan.
(26:41):
It's like, you can tell he'saway from anybody seeing him.
And he's like, you know, he'stotally being a fan. And you
know, my wife and I are lookingat him. And we're kind of doing
the same. And he's looking at uslike, Yeah, and you know, I
didn't say anything or anything,but I got the rock out with Paul
serpil.
Chuck Shute (26:58):
Oh, that's awesome.
Very cool. That's very cool.
What is it like being on theother end of that? Because
you've been on the other end ofthat, where people are
starstruck to meet you and rockout with you and get pictures
and all that kind of stuff.
Jeff Pilson (27:10):
What's it like to be on that end? I, you know,
it's sort of a closure thing.
You know, it's like, wow, I'mgetting to meet my heroes. And
hopefully I'll, I mean,honestly, it was a meeting with
Chris Squire when I was 17 yearsold. I was one of those kids
that followed him after theshow, my best friend and I
followed their limousine back tothe hotel in Portland. And when
he got out of the car, I went upand started talking to him. And
(27:34):
he was so kind to me, and at 17I was the most hyperactive kid
you ever wanted. Mr. Squire? Hewas really cool. And he answered
my questions. And he didn't evergive me the feeling like he
wanted me to stop or be done. Hewas like, just very patient kind
of thing. He smoked a big joint.
(27:59):
He was very, very patient. Hewas like that until and I said,
well, thank you very much. Hegoes, you're very welcome.
Anytime. And he turns around,and what? That left such an
impression on me that to thisday, I will never be an asshole
to anybody. Because, I mean,that meant everything. Had he
been an asshole. What What wouldmy reaction have been? How would
(28:20):
I have changed my outlook onthings? And in the years coming,
so? So yeah, I'm very committedto being cool to anybody that
wants to do this. Because myGod, you deserve it.
Chuck Shute (28:32):
Wow, that's really inspiring. That's really neat to
hear. Yeah. And I think you havethat reputation of being a nice
I've never heard anybody sayanything bad about you.
Jeff Pilson (28:41):
Oh, well, maybe that's why Thank you, Chris.
There we go. That's, that'sgood. I have to well, I've seen
be a complete jerk and smartasssince but, really, but But no,
but it's because he's got agreat sense of humor. Chris
Squire is one funny was onefunny to me.
Chuck Shute (28:59):
Wow. Yeah, that night. It's interesting when I
started this podcast, and I'vedone over 300. And it's a lot of
musicians. And most of them arevery kind very down to earth. I
mean, I don't see him obviouslyon tour and behind the scenes
and stuff, but at least they'reable to fake it with, with, you
know, interviews with
Jeff Pilson (29:16):
more and more, that's getting to be the case,
you know, a lot of the 80sbands, you know, of the dokkan
genre when I'm kind of tookourselves way too seriously. And
there was a lot of that, then,that I think, unfortunately has
kind of backed off. People don'ttake quite as seriously. I mean,
there's still a few people fromthat era that I see taking
things a little too seriouslystill, but overall, people have
(29:38):
mellowed out a lot. They've kindof seen things in perspective.
And I think a lot of us are justreally grateful that we're still
playing music, and that's how Ifeel. I just I'm very grateful
that that's what I get to do.
Chuck Shute (29:50):
That's interesting.
You say, taking too seriously. Ifeel like that era was was more
about fun and just not had takentoo seriously. I mean, I don't
Maybe the early 80s was littledifferent than later. 80s
Jeff Pilson (30:02):
No, I mean, but what I mean by taking too
seriously is the whole fame andfortune thing. You know, that's
where a lot of the people inthat area. Sure the songs were
about fun and party andeverything. But there was this
underlying sense that we wereall big rock stars, you know,
that was that was a real goal.
And I find that to be very emptyand vacuous. So, and I think
(30:23):
most people have since then, andyeah, the songs were about fun.
But there was a lot of egoinvolved. And I think a lot of
that is mellowed out. And that'sgood.
Chuck Shute (30:34):
Okay, yeah, no, that is good to hear. Yeah, cuz
I mean, you look at guys likeAlice Cooper. And it's just
like, I mean, he doesn't haveany of that he's been
Jeff Pilson (30:40):
cooled for a very, very long time. He's been sober
a very long time, too. And Aliceis just a wonderful, wonderful
guy. And just, yeah, he is notan example of somebody in the
80s. That took themselves tooseriously.
Chuck Shute (30:53):
Yeah, well, what about the image? Because that
was such a big thing back in the80s, MTV, but it seems like the
look is not as important now. Imean, if you look at people
like, you know, Lizzo, who arehave massive success, I mean, a
person like Alyssa would nothave, they wouldn't have let her
be in the music business in the80s. Do you think that that is a
is changed dramatically?
Jeff Pilson (31:16):
Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, when MTV came
out, it was all you know, glitzand glamour. Of course, it's
going to happen. It'stelevision, you know. And, you
know, there was music had itsflirtation with that. But you
know, I think it gets old, likeanything. And I think people,
people have become veryspecialized in their music to
you know, it's like they theyend a little niches, maybe it's
(31:39):
their own niche of a playlistthat can be combined from
different genres, but, butpeople are getting very, very
singular in their focus now. SoI think that makes it in some
ways more about the music, whichis good. But unfortunately, the
mainstream media music, themainstream music infrastructure,
(32:01):
shall we say, just doesn't seemto be set up for nurturing new
artists yet, on the level itneeds to be to really become
mainstream. There's some of thatgoing on. But there needs to be
a lot more of it. And I hopethere is, and I bet there will
be soon.
Chuck Shute (32:16):
What do you mean, like, give me an example of how
you would nurture a youngerartist.
Jeff Pilson (32:21):
Because, first of all, to get signed to a label,
you sort of have to sound likesomething or, you know, there's
not really a criteria forsigning something completely
original, they won't take thatkind of a chance. So that has to
change the think about, youknow, think about who signed?
Well, yes, for instance, youknow, when when Yes, got signed,
(32:45):
you know, they went through acouple records, nobody bought
anything, it was crazy. And thenthey started getting crazier
with their music, but a labelgot behind it and support it.
And I know a lot about that,because Phil Carson, our manager
was the guy at Atlantic Recordsthat made yes happen. And that
was, like I say, they weretaking a musical chance. People
don't do that today. They needwe need music, people, music
(33:08):
visionaries, again, to signartists that are really creative
and new, give them a chance. Andthen give them the
infrastructure of a major labelfor tour support, album
distribution, and marketing. Andthat's what needs to happen. And
I think somewhere along theline, somebody is going to get
the idea. But more than likely,it'll happen. Because somebody's
(33:30):
going to come out of theinternet, with something very
new and creative. It's going tocatch on, and then the labels
will chase it. And that's theproblem they're chasing, rather
than creating, if they can getif they can get into a zone
where, hey, look that works.
Let's start. Let's start usbeing creative. And let's start
us looking for fresh, new,interesting talent. Maybe that
(33:53):
can happen. And if that doeshappen, I think there's a much
better shot for mainstream formainstream music opening up into
a much more creative field.
Chuck Shute (34:03):
Yeah, cuz I mean, you bring up an interesting
point how the labels arechasing? Because you're right.
Like I think in some ways, youdon't need a label. If you're
really popular. You can anybodycan upload to YouTube and
Spotify. And it sounds reallygood. It's going to blow up. But
you're saying that having thatsupport would help bring more
eyes on some things that aremaybe a little bit different,
that could blow up later.
Jeff Pilson (34:23):
Right, right, because you're still not hearing
any rock songs on top 40 radio,you don't hear that at all
anymore. And you used to useyour L Han rock on mainstream
radio. So I would love to seethat change. But again, it's all
about the music, theinfrastructure, major labels,
and they're a long ways offright now.
Chuck Shute (34:45):
Yeah, no, I agree.
It is weird how? That's what Iliked about the 80s and 90s was
especially like 91 Right, rightwas when grunge was starting to
get popular but you know, hairmetal was still cool. There was
a mix, and I love that that wasa great year rock You had like
Metallica and Guns and Roses andNirvana all having huge albums.
Jeff Pilson (35:04):
Yeah, that was that was a great period. You're
absolutely right. And of course,the next year 92 Is when Hair
Metal just died. I mean, yeah,yeah.
Chuck Shute (35:14):
I still think it sucks because I a lot of those
albums that came out there. Infact, I loved the doc and
dysfunctional album, I might bethe only one. But they played
that song too high to fly inSeattle on Seattle rock radio in
95, which is kind of crazy. ButI heard that song. And I was
like, I gotta get this out. Andthe song is amazing.
Jeff Pilson (35:34):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Well, thank you. That was thatwas the objective. And it did
kind of work. Yeah, that wasthat was great. Well, I mean,
listen, quality will last thetest of time. And I think a lot
of what dokkan did, there was alot of quality and a lot of it.
So it will stand the test oftime, there was some pretty
disposable music that came outof the hair metal scene. But you
know, the great stuff hassurvived. And there's still some
(35:55):
great rad stuff, some greatwarrant stuff, some great
slaughter stuff, you know,there's there's still plenty of
good stuff out there.
Chuck Shute (36:02):
Do you think the next phase of rock maybe
incorporates an electroniccomponent or something? Because
I always thought like Nine InchNails, I thought that was going
to be the future more thanelectronic, mixed with rock, but
it hasn't really taken off likethat.
Jeff Pilson (36:16):
Yeah, I mean, there's elements of me, you
know, even in a band, likeEvanescence, you kind of hear a
little bit, but But you'reright, more 15 years ago than
what you'd hear now. So, yeah, Iwas a little surprised at that,
too, because I thought thedownward spiral was a huge
record. I mean, now that thatreally made a difference. In my
mind, I was a huge fan of thatrecord. So I could, I kind of
(36:39):
felt like you did? I don't know,maybe. But I think what people
are starting to crave more andmore is more organic things. So
I see the next wave, I kind ofhope as being a more raw and
organic phase, kind of theopposite of this perfect Pro
Tools phase that we're in. So Ihope so. And maybe that's, you
(37:00):
know, maybe if somebody comes upwith just a raunchy, you know,
new Rolling Stones, Guns andRoses kind of vibe that's loose,
and cool. And not perfect. Maybethat would have a chat.
Chuck Shute (37:14):
I would love that.
That's what I always think of,in fact, I've actually thought
of just manages starting a bandlike not playing but just
picking out musicians andgetting my own guns and roses,
like a modern day version. Ithink that somebody should do
that. Hey,
Jeff Pilson (37:27):
yeah, I'd love to produce it. Would
Chuck Shute (37:30):
you is that something that you'd be
interested in doing? Afterforeigners maybe kind of
mentoring younger bands andproducing and helping out
Jeff Pilson (37:37):
starting this minute? I'd love to do that. I
would love to find a band thathas a real vision. That would be
wonderful.
Chuck Shute (37:47):
Yeah, very cool.
Well, you're involved in so manyprojects right now. Foreigners
going to be on the road. TheRevolution saints record is out
tomorrow. We said Friday? Yes.
We're 21 And then I think isthere you just have a new record
with a black swan. But and isthere gonna be another end
machine I think heard you saysomeone new singer without
working on it. We're
Jeff Pilson (38:07):
working on a new machine record. Right now. It's
almost all written in mostlytracked. It's got some tracking
to go. But the end machinerecord I believe is going to
come out early 24. I think Ithink that's what they want to
do as what I've heard, but butthat record is done. I'm going
to start writing another BlackSwan, which is Red Beach, Robin
(38:27):
McAuley and Matt star is goingto start writing that at the end
of this year. But that too,probably won't come out till 25.
Chuck Shute (38:34):
So yeah. Okay, you're gonna be busy. So yeah,
Jeff Pilson (38:38):
we've got a there's another revolution saints record
in the kingdom already. That'llcome out next year. And then
this summer, we're going tostart writing another revolution
saints record. And I've alreadygot a couple of songs for that.
So yeah, I got my projectsmapped out.
Chuck Shute (38:57):
Yeah, a lot of projects. Is there anything? Is
there any projects that you wereclose to being a part of? Or
like you tried out for that youdidn't get that were like would
have been huge?
Jeff Pilson (39:09):
Mmm hmm. Good question. That that can take
them off hand.
Chuck Shute (39:14):
Okay. Well, there's always this future. I mean, if
somebody if after foreignerends, if some other big giant
band comes calling, would youjoin another big band like that?
Or do you think you want to justkind of late low and do more
producing I would
Jeff Pilson (39:29):
have to see because I do want to be home more. So I
don't you know, joining anotherband. That's kind of not on my
mind at the moment, but we'llsee. You never know.
Chuck Shute (39:41):
Yeah. Okay. Very cool. Well let you get going. I
was in promoting a charity or anonprofit or cause just
something like that that's nearand dear to your heart.
Jeff Pilson (39:48):
Um, well, I will say if, if people are into
meditation, I'm doing a virtualmeditation class. It's generally
Monday evenings at 8pm During5pm Pacific, sometimes it has to
change because of my touringschedule. But if you go to yoga
at hot for yoga, S C v.com, youcan get the information to how
(40:11):
to how to do plenty of virtualclasses, not just my meditation,
there's other stuff you can getto. And if you get a monthly
virtual pass, you can get allthose classes. So it's a pretty
cool deal. But if you want tojoin our meditation class, it's
great. And it's a wonderful,wonderful way to really come
down.
Chuck Shute (40:31):
Oh, I agree. I did a transcendental meditation.
I've tried others progressivemuscle relaxation. I feel like
that's something that should betaught in schools. I used to
work in schools. I'm like, whydo we not teach meditation? I
mean, it's not religious orwhatever. It's anybody can do
it, whether you're religious ornot religious, like it's not a
spiritual thing in that regard.
So I don't know if there'sscientific evidence that shows
(40:51):
that it calms your body down.
Jeff Pilson (40:56):
There's a lot Yeah, and, and like I say, I credit
that for me being able tosurvive the crazy music business
that I've been able to survive.
So yeah, it's a great thing. ButBut you asked for something I'd
like to plug I love gettingpeople to that. So that'd be
great.
Chuck Shute (41:10):
Okay, I'll put that in the show notes along with me.
Do you have? Do you have yourown designer Jeff pilson website
or?
Jeff Pilson (41:15):
There is? Yeah, there is a jeff.com
Chuck Shute (41:19):
I'll put that in the show notes too. And that's,
I mean, where people go on yourWikipedia and just see the
massive list of all the musicyou've made. It's awesome. Very
cool.
Jeff Pilson (41:26):
Let me visit my Jeff pilson. fanpage on
Chuck Shute (41:30):
on Facebook. Yeah.
And you're on I think you're onInstagram and Twitter too. I
think I follow you on the realJeff pilson Instagram. All
right. Thanks so much, Jeff.
Appreciate it.
Jeff Pilson (41:39):
Great interview, man. Appreciate it.
Chuck Shute (41:41):
All right. Have a good one. You too. Well, there
you go. Jeff pilson, you heardhim shout out his social media.
So make sure to follow him onthere like comment, share his
stuff. And of course you can dothe same with the shows, the
shows social media and YouTubeit definitely helps myself and
the guest out and make sure tocheck out Jeff's latest project
revolution saints. The thirdalbum should be out soon and the
(42:03):
fourth one is coming. So Iappreciate all your support for
the show and the guests asalways, have a great day and
shoot for the moon.
Okay, Jeff pilson is my guest today Jeff is of
course the current bass playerfor foreigner, former bass
player for Dokken and is alsoinvolved with a ton of projects
as a producer and a musician.
His some of his most recentmusician projects include the
end machine, Black Swan, andrevolution saints. So we're
going to talk a lot about hisamazing career highlights his
thoughts on the current state ofrock, his future plans and so
(00:21):
much more. Stay right there.
We'll go ahead and just diveright in. I'm actually it's
funny because I just had a guy Idon't you remember Chris Vaughn
(00:41):
doll? He was in a band calledPerry Street. Yeah.
Jeff Pilson (00:45):
He's a good friend of mine. Okay, when we did we
didn't see him this year inVegas, but I saw him last year
when we did our residency inVegas. Yeah, he and his wife are
good friends of ours, and welove them dearly.
Chuck Shute (00:56):
Yeah, it's just funny because I had him on the
show. And he, he brought you up.
He was talking about slash. Andhe goes, Yeah, we were at Jeff
pilson house and I was like,Wait, like Jeff and slash? We're
friends. He's like, Oh, yeah.
Everybody was friends with withJeff back in the day. So I
didn't know that. I don't knowif slash wrote about you and his
book. But tell me about yourfriendship was slash that just
intrigues me a little bit?
Jeff Pilson (01:15):
Ah, okay. Well, I mean, I met slash, you know,
even before, right as they werecoming out. You know, before
they were big and famous, Iremember having some, you know,
we would drink and talk at therainbow. Not a lot. I mean, we
weren't close at that point atall. But you know, there was a
little bit of that then as theygot famous. Steven Adler is one
(01:36):
of my best friends and is tothis day, one of my best
friends. So towards the end ofStephens tenure, so 8990 round
in there. I started hanging withslash a bit more, you know, I
mean, at first it was kind of adrinking thing, then I actually
got sober. But we kind ofmaintained a friendship then at
(01:56):
one point, he was, he washanging in my house quite a bit.
And that's for kind of there wasstuff going on, but you don't
have to know about all that. Butit sounds like the good stuff.
Yeah. No,
Chuck Shute (02:11):
but he's there stuff going on. But this is when
you're sober. So are you kind oflike the babysitter at this
point.
Jeff Pilson (02:16):
No, not no. Just just hanging. We were just
hanging, you know, I mean,
Chuck Shute (02:22):
you jam Do you play any music together?
Jeff Pilson (02:24):
We really didn't.
And I wish we would have becauseI mean, we talked about it. But
I have jammed with slash, ofcourse over the years. And I
just, you know, I've maintaineda friendship with him. I mean,
it's not a close friendship byany means. But you know, we talk
about Steve, you know, we keepin touch about Stephen a lot.
And you know, he wants to makesure Stephen is doing good,
(02:46):
which he is. And he knows thatStephen and I are real close. So
there's that and then you know,then it's just fun stuff. Like,
I got our tour bus. Last year inEurope. I walked out of the tour
bus, and there's a doll, a slashdoll with guitar, you know, top
hat and cigarette andeverything. And so I had to take
(03:07):
a picture of that and send it tohim. And I said, Are you
stalking me?
Chuck Shute (03:13):
That's funny. Yeah.
And like he played on Stevens,one of Steve Stevens solo
records, the one that was justcalled Adler
Jeff Pilson (03:20):
that right you produced right that he did that
right here. So,
Chuck Shute (03:23):
okay, so yes, that your suit? That's what he called
pill Sound Studios.
Jeff Pilson (03:27):
He'll sound yes, that you are seeing. Yeah,
explain to me that because
Chuck Shute (03:31):
I'm thinking about doing a home studio, I mean, for
podcasting, but I'm assuming itwould be kind of similar. Do you
have any advice for building ahome studio?
Jeff Pilson (03:39):
Well, you're gonna want to make sure that the sound
is decent. So you notice I havesee all those baffles and
everything that I have. Yeah. Solots of sound reinforcement.
Chuck Shute (03:52):
Does that really make a big difference? Well, I
Jeff Pilson (03:55):
mean, probably more for music than it does for
casting stuff. But you know, ithelps when you're listening that
it's a controlled environment.
You don't want to have too muchbass that you know, shoots up
that then when you take it toanother system that sounds bass
shy, and all that kind of thing.
Chuck Shute (04:11):
Want especially everything drums would be the
because that's so loud, it couldecho and then, right? Well,
yeah,
Jeff Pilson (04:19):
although the drums are in an echoey room, the room
that I have for the drums there,I purposely have a different
surfaces. So there's stone,right and back to the drums,
which given a nice reflection,there's wood on the floor and on
the walls, and then there'sfabrics. So with all three of
(04:40):
those surfaces, I get a nicereflection on the drums, which
you actually want because youwant the drums to sound big and
like they're, you know,resonating. But that in here,
when I'm listening to everythingI want to control so that I'm
not hearing random frequenciesthat aren't really there.
Chuck Shute (04:59):
Gotcha. How did so how did you learn all this
production stuff? Becauseobviously produce in addition to
playing bass, is it just throughall the recording you've done? I
mean, yeah, yeah, sure. I justexperienced it's trial and
error. And yeah, and
Jeff Pilson (05:12):
I mean, like, ever since I was a kid I've loved.
I've loved the whole recordingprocess. And I'm fascinated by
it. So, I mean, I was the kidthat had, you know, the I had a
reel to reel tape recorder, I'drecord on that, you know, and
maybe play guitar and sing andthen I have my cassette machine
and playback the reel to reeland record the cassette and sing
(05:33):
harmonies along and you know,that kind of thing. I was one of
those guys doing that at 16years old. So I've always loved
the process. And always had areal curiosity about it. And
I've been fortunate enough towork with some amazing people. I
mean, the Jeff workmen's, theTom Orman's, the Michael
Wagner's the wind, Davis's theNeil Kernan. You know, I mean,
(05:54):
I've worked the Keith Olsen's. Imean, the list goes on of the
incredible producers, engineersthat I've worked with. So I've
tried to learn as much byosmosis as I can. And, and I
love it. You know, when you whenyou love something, you know,
you do it? Well.
Chuck Shute (06:09):
Yeah. So just learning from all of those
accounts. Amazing. And all thepeople that you worked with,
tell me about, I was so curious,because one of the first things
I noticed when I startedresearching you is that you're
from Washington, kind of likeyou grew up in Longview,
Washington. I know where thatis. I'm from Seattle, I actually
applied for a job in Camus,which is like, I don't know, 40
minutes from there or something.
I think it's Camus Washington.
(06:31):
It's like South. Yeah, a littlefurther. Yep. Yeah. And then
there's a story of Oregon iskind of like a little. There's
also around there, which islike, where the Goonies and all
these movies were filmed. Buttalking about growing up in
Longview. I mean, that was whenyou were what, like, 1316 you
moved there. So I moved
Jeff Pilson (06:46):
there when I was 13. Um, well, you know, the
thing is, I had never been I,you know, I was coming from
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, I lived ina really nice suburb of
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, that wasthe sixth rated school district
in the country. So very, and Ihad friends there that are still
friends to this day. But I movedback when I move west. And I go
(07:07):
into the school system that wasactually a year behind. So my
seventh or eighth, I'm sorry, myeighth grade year, was an
academic repeat of my seventhgrade year in Wisconsin. So I
was, you know, that, that Ithink, started me on a path of,
you know, I wanted to I justwanted to play music. I was in
this small town, I felt, youknow, out of place and you know,
(07:29):
all the, the strange feelingsyou feel as a kid when you're
somewhere new. So music becamemy, my outlet and my, my saved
salvation, really. So every day,I would come home and just play
along with records. And that wasmy, that was my school.
Chuck Shute (07:48):
So playing by yourself mostly, then. Yeah, I
mean,
Jeff Pilson (07:51):
if the first couple years, sure, you know, you'll
learn to play along withrecords. And then I started
jamming with people, probablyabout the time I was 14, I want
to say, and yeah, it's beenpretty hard. And you have well,
actually a 13 when I did move toWashington, I met some friends
fairly soon. We didn't have adrummer but you know, we played
guitars and I had my bass and sothere was there was the that
(08:15):
early momentum of of playing.
But yeah, between playing alongwith records, and playing with
other musicians who are alsodeveloping, it's a great way to
learn.
Chuck Shute (08:25):
Yeah, and then Didn't you also like you weren't
you worked at a music store? Andthen you tell them? Yeah, tell
them tell them out. It's a storyabout how you, you convinced
your high school to give youlike a waiver or something that
you could work on music and itwas awesome.
Jeff Pilson (08:41):
Okay, so so starting when I was 15, so I
think it was a sophomore. Istarted managing this music
store because it's called Boband Corky is musical emporium
and guitar shop in Longview,Washington and Corky the owner
of the shop, he we just had thisgreat relationship he was you
know, he was probably in his 30sI want to guess so he seemed
(09:02):
old. But he trusted me and hetaught me how to manage the
music store because then I couldbe there while he's at work
because he worked in the factoryin Longview. So it was great. I
mean, I loved working there. Butbecause of that in my senior
year Yes, I got this waiver Igot my school to accept this
(09:25):
waiver program where one perioda day might have even been two
periods but there's at least oneall I had to do for the whole
quarter was write one song whichI could do in a day so so I
would use that time to eitherjam at the music store or I'd go
up in the in the music room atthe at the school and you know,
(09:46):
play and write something wouldit ever but yeah, I my senior
year was was a gift. Yeah,that's
Chuck Shute (09:55):
cool. So and then I know you went to University of
Washington. I'm not sure howlong you stayed there. But tell
me about your thoughts on musicand education because I just had
the singer of up and coming bandcalled Dead Poets Society. And
he went to the Berklee School ofMusic, which I think is one of
the most prestigious musicschools. And he says, basically,
it's a waste of time other thannetworking with other musicians.
(10:17):
But you learn a lot of the otherstuff just by plane and bands
and things like that. Do youagree?
Jeff Pilson (10:22):
I do. And honestly, my time at the University of
Washington music program, I hada wonderful bass teacher string
bass teacher. He was the firstfirst chair string basis with
the Seattle Symphony. Great,great, great player and teacher.
And that was, that was great.
But the classes were very oldschool, traditional classical.
So they, you know, I mean, I'mglad I know music theory and all
(10:47):
that kind of stuff. But butreally, yeah, it's it's it's out
there getting out there playingand that's, that's the nitty
gritty.
Chuck Shute (10:55):
Were you playing in bands in Seattle during that
time? Like, the Seattle scenewith was Queens right around
there?
Jeff Pilson (11:03):
Yeah. Yeah, cuz this is seven, mid 70s. Mind
you, so Okay. Yeah. So um, yeah,there were there wasn't a huge
scene in Seattle, which is why Iended up leaving at the time.
What but I was involved in theprod community because I was a
total prod guy back then, youknow? Yeah. I mean, Chris Squire
was my guy. So yes, Genesis ELP,gentle giant. That was that was
(11:27):
my stuff. And we had a littlebit of a scene in Seattle, that
had that I was in a band calledChristmas. But then it kind of
faded out. Because at the end ofthe 70s, all that stuff, just,
you know it, it got died ahorrible death. And so that's
when I kind of shifted overgoing more towards hard rock.
Chuck Shute (11:48):
Yeah. And then you moved to San Francisco and
became friends with Mike varney.
Well, what made you choose SanFrancisco as opposed to LA or
New York or?
Jeff Pilson (11:56):
Well, because my after the the week after my
senior year of high school, mybest friend and I, we huddled we
got ourselves down to NorthernCalifornia. I don't even I still
don't know how we did this. Butwe, we flew down there. And
somehow, I don't even rememberhow we did it. But we had no
(12:17):
money. But we moved down therebecause we had joined this band.
I on my spring break, I hadjoined a band that was in the
Bay Area. Sir, I'd havesomething to do when I got out
of school. So I came here. Ishowed up with no money, nowhere
to live. And a guy with me thathe didn't even know. But he put
up but he put up with it. And soI had a band that I joined when
(12:39):
I when they went down there.
Well, of course that lasted forthe summer. But in that summer,
I met a lot of reallyinteresting people, including
Mike varney. So when I went backto Seattle in the fall to go to
school, that's when you know,that whole Seattle experience
happened. When that fell apart.
(13:00):
Then I decided, well, the nextlogical place is the other one I
know, which is San Francisco.
And I knew Mike varney. And sowhen I got down there, and very
soon after I got down there, thethe rock Justice Project
happened that Mike was involvedin with Marty Balin from the
starship. And so that they kindof drew me into that. And so
there was there was a lot ofgood stuff that started
happening.
Chuck Shute (13:20):
Okay, and then that's also where you met. Did
you meet Paul Taylor in SanFrancisco as well?
Jeff Pilson (13:24):
I did. Yeah. You ended up rooming with
Chuck Shute (13:26):
him. So all these connections? It seems like a lot
of networking for you. Is that abig part of your success? You
feel like
Jeff Pilson (13:33):
Yeah, but by happenstance, you know, I I've
never been like Mr. schmooze IInetwork a guy but um, but by
happenstance, yes, I am.
Chuck Shute (13:42):
Because it's interesting like with foreigner,
you know, you and Kelly Hansonare both in that which is I
think is so cool. But you know,you're not the guy from Dhaka
and Kelly Hanson is not thesinger from Hurricane Now you
keep you guys keep evolving.
What how do you what is thesecret to that? Like guys like
you and Kelly, how do youcontinually reinvent yourselves?
So you're not just this one bandthing that you know, that
(14:04):
happened?
Jeff Pilson (14:06):
It's funny, I don't feel like I necessarily do any
reinventing at all. I just feellike I do my my thing. And, and
by staying involved and activeand passionate and committed, I
think you you naturally changebecause that's what the
circumstances call for. So yeah,really, it's not like an attempt
to always want to evolve. It'sjust an attempt to always do my
(14:28):
best and give my best. And itmust
Chuck Shute (14:31):
be working because you just keep getting work. And
so obviously, we got to talkabout the new project revolution
saints which you say I justplayed bass on it, but obviously
being just even referred to havethat that's a good gig. I mean
you're working with
Jeff Pilson (14:45):
I love it. And I love the fact that I just have
to play bass on it because Iproduce other records. So this
is kind of fun to just be thebass player. And I have infinite
faith and Alessandro who is theproducer, writer for revolution
saints. We have a tremendousworking real arrangement so, so
yeah, for me, it's a treat. AndI love it. And you know, Dean's
(15:06):
I mean, just to sit and listento Dean's voice to me is enough.
Chuck Shute (15:10):
Yeah. explain to people like, would you how do
you describe this music? Cuz tome obviously Dean's the drummer
from Germany. It sounds there'svery there's vibes of journey I
mean maybe it's a little bitheavier
Jeff Pilson (15:21):
and heavier. That's exactly if I were to describe
it, I would describe it as aheavier journey. It says if
journey wanted to really be amainstream rock band again.
Chuck Shute (15:31):
Okay, and so on this one you just play bass, but
maybe on the next one would youmaybe sing, co write maybe co
produce or
Jeff Pilson (15:39):
there was actually two records written in the can
when I joined. So I played onthe first one, which is the one
coming out today? No, tomorrow,tomorrow, tomorrow. Anyway, um,
so for me now because I get theadvance copy. Okay, right. And
then. And then there's alreadyanother record that we've all
played on, that's indicated,okay, later on this summer, we
(16:02):
are going to start writing forthe third one, which I'm sure
will come out so well into 2025.
But we're gonna start writingthat over the summer. So that'll
be very exciting. There'salready a couple songs that I've
thrown in that that we're goingto work on. So it's gonna be
fun. It's gonna be really fun.
Chuck Shute (16:20):
So you said like, you'd like that you could just
play bass. So talk about like,different jobs you do in music
producing playing basssongwriting, but also singing,
you're in the span worn piecewhere you're the frontman? Did
you like that? Was thereadvantages? I mean, obviously
nice. Like, you're kind of incharge, and you have a great
singing voice. I thought,
Jeff Pilson (16:39):
well, thank you.
Um, I yeah, I love fronting. ButI don't, I just don't feel
honestly that my voice isspecial enough to really warrant
a band around it and go to play,I do have a lot of material that
I work on, that's very differentthan a lot of the stuff that I
release with other bands.
(16:59):
Someday, I'll probably put outsome kind of a solo record just
to make that artistic statement.
And I'll sing on that, and I'lldo a I'll do most of the
instruments on that. But as faras fronting i don't, i i rather
I get more of a thrill oflistening to better singers, to
be perfectly honest with you. SoI would rather be in a situation
with better singers. And whenI'm producing I feel as a singer
(17:23):
I, I make for a good vocalproducer. But I would rather do
that than then then just saymyself, I really would.
Chuck Shute (17:36):
Do you prefer playing on stage and playing
bass? And like in foreigner,you're playing the same songs?
Or is it more of a thrill tocreate new music? Or is it both
just different?
Jeff Pilson (17:48):
Well, it's both but different. I mean, yes. Because
I'm on year 20. With foreigner,you know, yeah, there's a little
bit of like, the grass is alwaysgreener. So whenever I see a
recording studio, which iswhenever I come home, I'm in it,
because I love it. And I love torecord, I love the recording
process. I will do this as muchas I can, until foreigner ends
(18:10):
and then when foreigner ends,I'll probably do it even more.
So. But I wonder, well, will Iget to a point in a couple of
years wrong this playing live? Idon't know.
Chuck Shute (18:20):
But for now, you're going to continue to to to I
mean, well, the foreigner ends,you could tour with one of these
other the end machine or BlackSwan
Jeff Pilson (18:27):
could happen. And yeah, I mean, foreigners going
to tour till the end of 2024.
For sure. Okay. But yes, maybethat does open up that
revolution, saints are inmachine or Black Swan could go
out there and play at somepoint, that would be great. I
never like to, you know, make acommitment about that to the
public. Because it's so trickygetting guys and all these bands
together to play live. And it'sexpensive, and it's hard to pull
(18:50):
off and the list goes on. But ifit could ever happen, I would
love it. And yeah, maybe that'ssomething that could happen more
once the four years are behindus.
Chuck Shute (19:02):
Yeah. Could you do something like a package either
package tour of like N machine,Black Swan revolution saints or
have all three play the samefestival? Because I know that's
a big thing. Festivals orMonsters of Rock cruise, those
kinds of things.
Jeff Pilson (19:16):
Wow, you really want me to work hard, don't you?
Chuck Shute (19:20):
I'm just saying logistically, isn't that what
you guys kind of have to donowadays for
Jeff Pilson (19:24):
Yeah, I mean, that would that that's the kind of
thing I could see happening.
Yeah. I honestly don't know.
And, you know, anything is openand fine for me. But yeah, just
it's just so hard to. It's hardto make it a reality. It just
is.
Chuck Shute (19:41):
Okay. Well, I'd be remiss if I didn't talk about
Docker and I'm sure there's alot of Docker fans out there who
want me to ask doc andquestions. I'm trying to think
of things that you haven't beenasked about docking. What tell
me explain to me how I'm not ina band. I'm not in the music
business other than interviewingmusicians, but in terms of like,
if you're a founding member. Howdoes that work? Because I know
(20:02):
the whole thing with Motley Cruelike Mick Mars is he's not he's
been cut out or something. Howdoes that work? Like with you
and Doc, and you're not in theband currently? Do you still get
a cut of obviously the musicyou've played on? But what about
like merch or things like that?
Is that
Jeff Pilson (20:16):
something that no, no, there was a severing of the
partnership with E and Doc. AndI want to say 2003. So, no, I
mean, everything anything Dondoes as Doc and now that's him.
But yeah, you know, we we, weguess
Chuck Shute (20:35):
you have to buy you out? I don't understand. There
Jeff Pilson (20:37):
was yeah, there was a thing to make it happen. Yes.
Yeah. And
Chuck Shute (20:41):
it's interesting, like you guys had a lawsuit with
George Lynch and then, but thenyou'd like you will got over it.
And that's kind of interestingto me.
Jeff Pilson (20:50):
Because it's a lawsuit. Um, yeah, well,
Chuck Shute (20:53):
I think there's no grudges like, he just called you
up one day. And it's like, Hey,buddy, let's go. Like you guys
do not talk about that. Or doyou just kind of just about it?
Jeff Pilson (21:01):
Sure. Of course, of course. But, I mean, basically,
the lawsuit happened in 97 oreight, I want to say, and, you
know, then he and I startedworking together in 2001. And
that's a couple of years later,and when he called me up, it was
kind of like, yeah, okay, we'reover it. Seriously, it? You
know, it. Just the crap of beingin a band?
Chuck Shute (21:26):
Yeah. Well, it's funny because I used to be a
counselor and schools. And, youknow, that always helped me do
the mediations. And if youbring, you know, two guys in,
they can literally get in afistfight. And I can talk to
them, they work it out the nextday. They're best friends again.
Now, girls, a lot of times notto be sexist, but a lot of times
girls will hold on to the grudgea lot longer. So that's how I
kind of thought about that. WhenI heard that story of I was
(21:47):
like, Oh, this is guys. This iswhat guys we just get overshot.
So do you think Mick Mars andmotley crew gonna ever? They'll
probably kiss and make up in afew years?
Jeff Pilson (21:55):
I don't know the specifics of their deal. I mean,
yeah, it sounds Yeah. I mean, Idon't want to comment. Because I
just don't know it. But I hopethey do. You know, I mean,
they're, they're good guys. Youknow, they should?
Chuck Shute (22:11):
Yeah, it's just, it's, it's hard to see that kind
of stuff. As a fan. Everyone'staking sides. And it's like, I'm
not taking a seat because Idon't I don't know what's going
on. I'd like to hear more. I'dlike to have him on my show and,
and figure it out. But it'shopefully it's one of those
things that can blow over and alittle bit
Jeff Pilson (22:27):
is I gotta admit, I've heard some snippets of Mars
solo record, and it's Oh, yeah.
Incredible. I hope to God, heputs it out because it's really,
really strong. And by the way,Paul Taylor is working
Chuck Shute (22:40):
on it. So yeah, he told me about it to finish it
off.
Jeff Pilson (22:44):
It is really, really good. I hope this
inspires MC to release itbecause it's really good. And
MIT deserves to be heard. He'sgot some really good music on
there. Who else is on that?
Chuck Shute (22:55):
Who's the because I thought John corabi was singing
at one point then he gotreplaced or?
Jeff Pilson (23:00):
I don't believe so.
I think Jacob, I mean, what Iheard Jacob was singing. I think
the Oh Jacob button, right?
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think Jacobwas singing everything that I
heard. Are you on it? No, no.
Chuck Shute (23:12):
Oh, you didn't produce it or anything? You just
got to listen.
Jeff Pilson (23:15):
I Yeah. I mean, Paul, I'm
Chuck Shute (23:17):
surprised he did not ask you to do a song or
something or back of vocals orsomething. Well,
Jeff Pilson (23:22):
I mean, that was done in Nashville. A lot of it
was done in Nashville and andmix stuff was. Yeah, I mean,
they don't they didn't need me.
Chuck Shute (23:30):
They had plenty.
Where are you located?
Jeff Pilson (23:32):
I'm in LA, north of La a little bit.
Chuck Shute (23:34):
Okay. Yeah. Do you like that scene? Are you think
you'll retire somewhere else atsome point?
Jeff Pilson (23:40):
Well, it'd be hard to replace the studio because I
got a beautiful studio and I gota beautiful drum room out there.
And I got, you know, beautifulisolation room for lamps there.
So that would be difficult to,to replace. So I don't know. I
don't know. I mean, I love ithere. I love where we are. I
love our house. I love mystudio. So I mean, I hope I can
(24:02):
stay here a long time, but we'llsee.
Chuck Shute (24:04):
Yeah, it doesn't excite you to build a new one
and upgrade it and,
Jeff Pilson (24:09):
um, yeah, if the opportunity arose. I mean, I'm
kind of comfortable now. But
Chuck Shute (24:16):
yeah, no, it looks cool. Very cool. So yeah, with
Dawkins, I mean, it's sointeresting. I was looking back
I was like, I didn't realize youguys. You've toured with almost
every major band Aerosmith,ACDC, Metallica, Van Halen. And
now of course, you're informed.
I mean, is there any band thatyou have not toured with you?
That's on your bucket list.
That's like, I mean, unless it'slike a band like Led Zeppelin.
That's obviously not togetheranymore.
Jeff Pilson (24:36):
Oh, for her did play a gig with Led Zeppelin.
When you were there, we playedthe ope. We played the at the Oh
702 arena show for the AhmetErtegun tribute we played right
before his effort. You rememberthat big show that they had in
2007?
Chuck Shute (24:53):
No, it was that it wasn't under the one Zeplin
date.
Jeff Pilson (24:56):
What you call it?
DVD?
Chuck Shute (24:58):
Okay, was that on?
Is that was that like pageplanned? Or was it actually it
wasn't under the Led Zeppelinname?
Jeff Pilson (25:03):
Yeah, it was called Led Zeppelin in 2007. Yeah. And
it was it was John Paul Jones,Robert Plant, Jimmy Page, and
Jason Bonham. So yeah, and theyplayed as Led Zeppelin. It was a
huge show. broke the internetbecause the 20 million requests
for tickets for the 20,000 seatsin the O two arena. It was it
was crazy. But anyways, yeah,Forerunner played right before
(25:26):
ziploan at that show, which wasvery cool.
Chuck Shute (25:28):
Well, there you go.
That's amazing. God, geez,everything says Paul McCartney
is the only one that you haven'tworked with yet.
Jeff Pilson (25:34):
I've never worked with Paul McCartney, or Ringo.
And I haven't worked with Ringomet Ringo. rocked out with Paul
didn't actually meet him. But Ithought it was. It's kind of
funny. So it was at the oh sevenAhmet Ertegun show during Led
Zeppelin set. And there was anarea you know, for the VIPs up
(25:56):
top. So after the show, my wifeand I went to the area to the
VIP area, and we're just kind ofwalking and, and, and the song
rock'n'roll starts, right Zeplinrockin awesome. And so we're
walking along, and my wife and Iwant to find there's this little
area that we were you can kindof see in the VIP area. So we
(26:16):
start walking along. Andhonestly, my wife was like doing
this to me, I'm like, and I lookover and it's Paul McCartney.
And he's, he's walking alongsideus, right? And we get to the
area where everybody's standing.
Although it was only a couple ofpeople at this point. It was
just Paul's wife and I standingin this area. And he's, he's
rocking out totally like a fan.
(26:41):
It's like, you can tell he'saway from anybody seeing him.
And he's like, you know, he'stotally being a fan. And you
know, my wife and I are lookingat him. And we're kind of doing
the same. And he's looking at uslike, Yeah, and you know, I
didn't say anything or anything,but I got the rock out with Paul
serpil.
Chuck Shute (26:58):
Oh, that's awesome.
Very cool. That's very cool.
What is it like being on theother end of that? Because
you've been on the other end ofthat, where people are
starstruck to meet you and rockout with you and get pictures
and all that kind of stuff.
Jeff Pilson (27:10):
What's it like to be on that end? I, you know,
it's sort of a closure thing.
You know, it's like, wow, I'mgetting to meet my heroes. And
hopefully I'll, I mean,honestly, it was a meeting with
Chris Squire when I was 17 yearsold. I was one of those kids
that followed him after theshow, my best friend and I
followed their limousine back tothe hotel in Portland. And when
he got out of the car, I went upand started talking to him. And
(27:34):
he was so kind to me, and at 17I was the most hyperactive kid
you ever wanted. Mr. Squire? Hewas really cool. And he answered
my questions. And he didn't evergive me the feeling like he
wanted me to stop or be done. Hewas like, just very patient kind
of thing. He smoked a big joint.
(27:59):
He was very, very patient. Hewas like that until and I said,
well, thank you very much. Hegoes, you're very welcome.
Anytime. And he turns around,and what? That left such an
impression on me that to thisday, I will never be an asshole
to anybody. Because, I mean,that meant everything. Had he
been an asshole. What What wouldmy reaction have been? How would
(28:20):
I have changed my outlook onthings? And in the years coming,
so? So yeah, I'm very committedto being cool to anybody that
wants to do this. Because myGod, you deserve it.
Chuck Shute (28:32):
Wow, that's really inspiring. That's really neat to
hear. Yeah. And I think you havethat reputation of being a nice
I've never heard anybody sayanything bad about you.
Jeff Pilson (28:41):
Oh, well, maybe that's why Thank you, Chris.
There we go. That's, that'sgood. I have to well, I've seen
be a complete jerk and smartasssince but, really, but But no,
but it's because he's got agreat sense of humor. Chris
Squire is one funny was onefunny to me.
Chuck Shute (28:59):
Wow. Yeah, that night. It's interesting when I
started this podcast, and I'vedone over 300. And it's a lot of
musicians. And most of them arevery kind very down to earth. I
mean, I don't see him obviouslyon tour and behind the scenes
and stuff, but at least they'reable to fake it with, with, you
know, interviews with
Jeff Pilson (29:16):
more and more, that's getting to be the case,
you know, a lot of the 80sbands, you know, of the dokkan
genre when I'm kind of tookourselves way too seriously. And
there was a lot of that, then,that I think, unfortunately has
kind of backed off. People don'ttake quite as seriously. I mean,
there's still a few people fromthat era that I see taking
things a little too seriouslystill, but overall, people have
(29:38):
mellowed out a lot. They've kindof seen things in perspective.
And I think a lot of us are justreally grateful that we're still
playing music, and that's how Ifeel. I just I'm very grateful
that that's what I get to do.
Chuck Shute (29:50):
That's interesting.
You say, taking too seriously. Ifeel like that era was was more
about fun and just not had takentoo seriously. I mean, I don't
Maybe the early 80s was littledifferent than later. 80s
Jeff Pilson (30:02):
No, I mean, but what I mean by taking too
seriously is the whole fame andfortune thing. You know, that's
where a lot of the people inthat area. Sure the songs were
about fun and party andeverything. But there was this
underlying sense that we wereall big rock stars, you know,
that was that was a real goal.
And I find that to be very emptyand vacuous. So, and I think
(30:23):
most people have since then, andyeah, the songs were about fun.
But there was a lot of egoinvolved. And I think a lot of
that is mellowed out. And that'sgood.
Chuck Shute (30:34):
Okay, yeah, no, that is good to hear. Yeah, cuz
I mean, you look at guys likeAlice Cooper. And it's just
like, I mean, he doesn't haveany of that he's been
Jeff Pilson (30:40):
cooled for a very, very long time. He's been sober
a very long time, too. And Aliceis just a wonderful, wonderful
guy. And just, yeah, he is notan example of somebody in the
80s. That took themselves tooseriously.
Chuck Shute (30:53):
Yeah, well, what about the image? Because that
was such a big thing back in the80s, MTV, but it seems like the
look is not as important now. Imean, if you look at people
like, you know, Lizzo, who arehave massive success, I mean, a
person like Alyssa would nothave, they wouldn't have let her
be in the music business in the80s. Do you think that that is a
is changed dramatically?
Jeff Pilson (31:16):
Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, when MTV came
out, it was all you know, glitzand glamour. Of course, it's
going to happen. It'stelevision, you know. And, you
know, there was music had itsflirtation with that. But you
know, I think it gets old, likeanything. And I think people,
people have become veryspecialized in their music to
you know, it's like they theyend a little niches, maybe it's
(31:39):
their own niche of a playlistthat can be combined from
different genres, but, butpeople are getting very, very
singular in their focus now. SoI think that makes it in some
ways more about the music, whichis good. But unfortunately, the
mainstream media music, themainstream music infrastructure,
(32:01):
shall we say, just doesn't seemto be set up for nurturing new
artists yet, on the level itneeds to be to really become
mainstream. There's some of thatgoing on. But there needs to be
a lot more of it. And I hopethere is, and I bet there will
be soon.
Chuck Shute (32:16):
What do you mean, like, give me an example of how
you would nurture a youngerartist.
Jeff Pilson (32:21):
Because, first of all, to get signed to a label,
you sort of have to sound likesomething or, you know, there's
not really a criteria forsigning something completely
original, they won't take thatkind of a chance. So that has to
change the think about, youknow, think about who signed?
Well, yes, for instance, youknow, when when Yes, got signed,
(32:45):
you know, they went through acouple records, nobody bought
anything, it was crazy. And thenthey started getting crazier
with their music, but a labelgot behind it and support it.
And I know a lot about that,because Phil Carson, our manager
was the guy at Atlantic Recordsthat made yes happen. And that
was, like I say, they weretaking a musical chance. People
don't do that today. They needwe need music, people, music
(33:08):
visionaries, again, to signartists that are really creative
and new, give them a chance. Andthen give them the
infrastructure of a major labelfor tour support, album
distribution, and marketing. Andthat's what needs to happen. And
I think somewhere along theline, somebody is going to get
the idea. But more than likely,it'll happen. Because somebody's
(33:30):
going to come out of theinternet, with something very
new and creative. It's going tocatch on, and then the labels
will chase it. And that's theproblem they're chasing, rather
than creating, if they can getif they can get into a zone
where, hey, look that works.
Let's start. Let's start usbeing creative. And let's start
us looking for fresh, new,interesting talent. Maybe that
(33:53):
can happen. And if that doeshappen, I think there's a much
better shot for mainstream formainstream music opening up into
a much more creative field.
Chuck Shute (34:03):
Yeah, cuz I mean, you bring up an interesting
point how the labels arechasing? Because you're right.
Like I think in some ways, youdon't need a label. If you're
really popular. You can anybodycan upload to YouTube and
Spotify. And it sounds reallygood. It's going to blow up. But
you're saying that having thatsupport would help bring more
eyes on some things that aremaybe a little bit different,
that could blow up later.
Jeff Pilson (34:23):
Right, right, because you're still not hearing
any rock songs on top 40 radio,you don't hear that at all
anymore. And you used to useyour L Han rock on mainstream
radio. So I would love to seethat change. But again, it's all
about the music, theinfrastructure, major labels,
and they're a long ways offright now.
Chuck Shute (34:45):
Yeah, no, I agree.
It is weird how? That's what Iliked about the 80s and 90s was
especially like 91 Right, rightwas when grunge was starting to
get popular but you know, hairmetal was still cool. There was
a mix, and I love that that wasa great year rock You had like
Metallica and Guns and Roses andNirvana all having huge albums.
Jeff Pilson (35:04):
Yeah, that was that was a great period. You're
absolutely right. And of course,the next year 92 Is when Hair
Metal just died. I mean, yeah,yeah.
Chuck Shute (35:14):
I still think it sucks because I a lot of those
albums that came out there. Infact, I loved the doc and
dysfunctional album, I might bethe only one. But they played
that song too high to fly inSeattle on Seattle rock radio in
95, which is kind of crazy. ButI heard that song. And I was
like, I gotta get this out. Andthe song is amazing.
Jeff Pilson (35:34):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Well, thank you. That was thatwas the objective. And it did
kind of work. Yeah, that wasthat was great. Well, I mean,
listen, quality will last thetest of time. And I think a lot
of what dokkan did, there was alot of quality and a lot of it.
So it will stand the test oftime, there was some pretty
disposable music that came outof the hair metal scene. But you
know, the great stuff hassurvived. And there's still some
(35:55):
great rad stuff, some greatwarrant stuff, some great
slaughter stuff, you know,there's there's still plenty of
good stuff out there.
Chuck Shute (36:02):
Do you think the next phase of rock maybe
incorporates an electroniccomponent or something? Because
I always thought like Nine InchNails, I thought that was going
to be the future more thanelectronic, mixed with rock, but
it hasn't really taken off likethat.
Jeff Pilson (36:16):
Yeah, I mean, there's elements of me, you
know, even in a band, likeEvanescence, you kind of hear a
little bit, but But you'reright, more 15 years ago than
what you'd hear now. So, yeah, Iwas a little surprised at that,
too, because I thought thedownward spiral was a huge
record. I mean, now that thatreally made a difference. In my
mind, I was a huge fan of thatrecord. So I could, I kind of
(36:39):
felt like you did? I don't know,maybe. But I think what people
are starting to crave more andmore is more organic things. So
I see the next wave, I kind ofhope as being a more raw and
organic phase, kind of theopposite of this perfect Pro
Tools phase that we're in. So Ihope so. And maybe that's, you
(37:00):
know, maybe if somebody comes upwith just a raunchy, you know,
new Rolling Stones, Guns andRoses kind of vibe that's loose,
and cool. And not perfect. Maybethat would have a chat.
Chuck Shute (37:14):
I would love that.
That's what I always think of,in fact, I've actually thought
of just manages starting a bandlike not playing but just
picking out musicians andgetting my own guns and roses,
like a modern day version. Ithink that somebody should do
that. Hey,
Jeff Pilson (37:27):
yeah, I'd love to produce it. Would
Chuck Shute (37:30):
you is that something that you'd be
interested in doing? Afterforeigners maybe kind of
mentoring younger bands andproducing and helping out
Jeff Pilson (37:37):
starting this minute? I'd love to do that. I
would love to find a band thathas a real vision. That would be
wonderful.
Chuck Shute (37:47):
Yeah, very cool.
Well, you're involved in so manyprojects right now. Foreigners
going to be on the road. TheRevolution saints record is out
tomorrow. We said Friday? Yes.
We're 21 And then I think isthere you just have a new record
with a black swan. But and isthere gonna be another end
machine I think heard you saysomeone new singer without
working on it. We're
Jeff Pilson (38:07):
working on a new machine record. Right now. It's
almost all written in mostlytracked. It's got some tracking
to go. But the end machinerecord I believe is going to
come out early 24. I think Ithink that's what they want to
do as what I've heard, but butthat record is done. I'm going
to start writing another BlackSwan, which is Red Beach, Robin
(38:27):
McAuley and Matt star is goingto start writing that at the end
of this year. But that too,probably won't come out till 25.
Chuck Shute (38:34):
So yeah. Okay, you're gonna be busy. So yeah,
Jeff Pilson (38:38):
we've got a there's another revolution saints record
in the kingdom already. That'llcome out next year. And then
this summer, we're going tostart writing another revolution
saints record. And I've alreadygot a couple of songs for that.
So yeah, I got my projectsmapped out.
Chuck Shute (38:57):
Yeah, a lot of projects. Is there anything? Is
there any projects that you wereclose to being a part of? Or
like you tried out for that youdidn't get that were like would
have been huge?
Jeff Pilson (39:09):
Mmm hmm. Good question. That that can take
them off hand.
Chuck Shute (39:14):
Okay. Well, there's always this future. I mean, if
somebody if after foreignerends, if some other big giant
band comes calling, would youjoin another big band like that?
Or do you think you want to justkind of late low and do more
producing I would
Jeff Pilson (39:29):
have to see because I do want to be home more. So I
don't you know, joining anotherband. That's kind of not on my
mind at the moment, but we'llsee. You never know.
Chuck Shute (39:41):
Yeah. Okay. Very cool. Well let you get going. I
was in promoting a charity or anonprofit or cause just
something like that that's nearand dear to your heart.
Jeff Pilson (39:48):
Um, well, I will say if, if people are into
meditation, I'm doing a virtualmeditation class. It's generally
Monday evenings at 8pm During5pm Pacific, sometimes it has to
change because of my touringschedule. But if you go to yoga
at hot for yoga, S C v.com, youcan get the information to how
(40:11):
to how to do plenty of virtualclasses, not just my meditation,
there's other stuff you can getto. And if you get a monthly
virtual pass, you can get allthose classes. So it's a pretty
cool deal. But if you want tojoin our meditation class, it's
great. And it's a wonderful,wonderful way to really come
down.
Chuck Shute (40:31):
Oh, I agree. I did a transcendental meditation.
I've tried others progressivemuscle relaxation. I feel like
that's something that should betaught in schools. I used to
work in schools. I'm like, whydo we not teach meditation? I
mean, it's not religious orwhatever. It's anybody can do
it, whether you're religious ornot religious, like it's not a
spiritual thing in that regard.
So I don't know if there'sscientific evidence that shows
(40:51):
that it calms your body down.
Jeff Pilson (40:56):
There's a lot Yeah, and, and like I say, I credit
that for me being able tosurvive the crazy music business
that I've been able to survive.
So yeah, it's a great thing. ButBut you asked for something I'd
like to plug I love gettingpeople to that. So that'd be
great.
Chuck Shute (41:10):
Okay, I'll put that in the show notes along with me.
Do you have? Do you have yourown designer Jeff pilson website
or?
Jeff Pilson (41:15):
There is? Yeah, there is a jeff.com
Chuck Shute (41:19):
I'll put that in the show notes too. And that's,
I mean, where people go on yourWikipedia and just see the
massive list of all the musicyou've made. It's awesome. Very
cool.
Jeff Pilson (41:26):
Let me visit my Jeff pilson. fanpage on
Chuck Shute (41:30):
on Facebook. Yeah.
And you're on I think you're onInstagram and Twitter too. I
think I follow you on the realJeff pilson Instagram. All
right. Thanks so much, Jeff.
Appreciate it.
Jeff Pilson (41:39):
Great interview, man. Appreciate it.
Chuck Shute (41:41):
All right. Have a good one. You too. Well, there
you go. Jeff pilson, you heardhim shout out his social media.
So make sure to follow him onthere like comment, share his
stuff. And of course you can dothe same with the shows, the
shows social media and YouTubeit definitely helps myself and
the guest out and make sure tocheck out Jeff's latest project
revolution saints. The thirdalbum should be out soon and the
(42:03):
fourth one is coming. So Iappreciate all your support for
the show and the guests asalways, have a great day and
shoot for the moon.
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